we're rolling
yes
obviously
um
ah there you go
foreign
to order
the uh September
the second meeting
Ms Rose if we could have the roll call
please
Mr Turner here Mr Levine you're Mr Hall
here Mr Shake here Mr King your chairman
march here
um
perfect
there you go
perfect perfect
um all right first uh we've got uh
section three public comments uh this is
an opportunity for anyone from the
public to comment on the general working
of the board but not any specific case
uh anyone here wish to comment on the
workings of the board
seeing none we will close public
comments we will move on to approval of
the minutes
item four uh these are the minutes from
the August 25th meeting uh 2022 uh has
everybody had a chance to review those
minutes and does anyone have any uh
changes deletion or comments regarding
the minutes
seeing none does anyone want to make a
motion to approve the minutes
came seconded Mr Perfect uh all in favor
of approving the minutes please say I I
all against please say no
let the minutes reflect that the uh
minutes were approved unanimously
um
staff report uh we'll just get I assume
we'll just do this case by case
um no old business any anything no I
assume nothing's been added since uh
this agenda was put out all right moving
on to new business uh the first
application vzap 22-35
545 North Drexel uh is the applicant
here tonight
if you could come up and be sworn in
please
I'm not the applicant I'm the owner oh
perfect please state your name I'm gonna
say it though you solemnly swear or
affirm the testimony you're about to
give this evening is the truth yes thank
you all right and uh Ms Rose is there
any uh background on this uh yes uh the
opportunity seeking Architectural Review
and approval for a Pergola a deck and a
hot tub the applicant is also seeking
three variances the versus the variance
from Mexico section 12 6402 which
requires a fuller Spa to be five feet
further back from all of their building
regulation lines to allow the hot tub
in the side yard at only five feet six
inches
from the side Lot line the second
variance is a variance in Mexico section
1252.09 R6 zoning excuse me which excuse
me which requires an eight foot side
yard setback however code section
125211c allows the deck if uncovered May
extend four feet into the required side
yard to allow a deck to remain one foot
from the north side of property line and
the pergola on the deck to remain two to
three feet from the north side property
line
so
standard Lots in the Sony District are
50 by 120 this lot is 60 by 150 which is
slightly larger than normal it was
discovered that the deck per gallon hot
tub were constructed and installed
without permits and do not comply with
the zoning code the construction of the
deck and pergola have not been through
the plan review or inspected the
applicant chose to file an application
to seek a variance to allow the hot tub
to be at five foot six inches from the
north property line
which I believe we stated was the fence
yes and the hot tub is inset into the
newly constructed deck which was
constructed one foot from the north
property line the section of deck that
is encroaching is it's encroaching three
feet into the required four foot side
yard setback
for uncovered Dixon is mainly providing
a walkway around a two-foot a deck that
is two foot high off the ground and
extends around the hot tub the hot tub
is required to be five feet further from
the side property line all other
accessory structures for a total of
eight feet and it's currently at five
feet six inches from the side property
line
especially there's a Pergola constructed
on top of a portion of the deck of the
pergola posts appear to be four feet
from the property line
uh and the upper portion extends two
feet
over into the property towards the
property line it's not attached to the
house but sits approximately three feet
away from the back of the house
it's freestanding freestanding pergolas
typically can be located three feet from
a side property line the fact that it's
constructed on top of the deck may be
more concerning due to the overall
height uh this has gone before the
architecture review board however they
decided that it should go forward
without a recommendation based on the
after the fact review I believe the
setbacks could have been met had the
applicant reached out to the city do you
understand what requirements were in
place for this property if the board
finds certain aspects of the various
requests to be appropriate and others
needing modification in the form of a
condition they may choose to also remand
it back to the ARB for final design
review
okay
um does anyone have any any on anyone on
the board have any questions for Ms Rose
I would just elaborate if I could for a
second on the architecture review boards
discussion
um at the urging and Kathy and I we
asked them just not to get into the
design and Justin so there there's not a
negative recommendation or a positive
recommendation we just thought this was
better to flip it yeah because what's
the point of discussing all the design
if if the variance is is turned down
biology right so understand understood
so the only thing I would ask that no
matter what happens here if the if
there's a way to move forward that it
gets remanded back to the architecture
and Ms Rose when you've read on the
drawing it shows five feet six inches
and what what does the code say a hot
tub has to be five feet further than a
typical accessory structure so typical
accessory structures are required to be
three feet so it's full of eight feet is
what's needed for a hot tub however this
one is five feet five feet six got it
okay I've got two questions so is there
any
good violation with the height of the
pergola
well it's it's on the deck most
additions to a house this comes before
the architecture review board even if it
meets the setback but the fact that if
it's freestanding in the yard that's
something that Karen and I can sign off
on it's usually a 10 foot height limit
okay so the fact that it's on top of the
deck I'm not quite sure what the height
of that pergola is I know the decks
approximately two feet off the ground
and I also want to I don't know if I've
noticed it noted this last time in my
staff report portions that I don't read
are the answers that the applicant has
provided for the zoning questions in the
application so if you look in there you
can see with the response is and I have
one of the questions
was the hot tub there before was it
existing or the deck was built out on
the Hot Topic the deck would excuse me
the deck was built on top around the hot
tub so it was there before the hot dog
yeah
okay
the hot tub was not there when I
purchased the house
was not you installed correct and I
don't I didn't find a permit for the hot
tub
regardless if it was over for the deck
there was never a permitted for that
gotcha gotcha and the permit will be for
for a hot tub to be in the rear yard
meet the setbacks and make sure that you
have it properly fenced according to
code okay so what what why don't you go
ahead and tell us a little bit about the
project and sort of how it unfolded and
then we can ask ask additional questions
well this was actually discovered by
code enforcement gotcha so we we you
know contacted the owner and let him
know that there were issues with the
locations and so we provided drawings
and decided to ask for a variants
for approval and where it's currently
constructed
correct
so
the hesitation is the the meeting is
publicized and it's being broadcasted on
YouTube live so I'm trying to pick
exactly what they say there is a lot of
personal details that goes behind this
so I'm trying to think about where to
start the story exactly from how much
personal detail I should spare the board
um
but I I think I will give you the full
story in in all honesty
um I purchased the house back in 2017. I
was married to somebody else at the time
and the marriage lasted about a year and
a half and since then I have been living
in the house alone till about July of
last year
and my current wife
have requested
she didn't mind moving in we're in a
place where somebody else lived but her
only request was a deck
and that's what they did there was no
time for a permit
because I understand how long this takes
now I'm paying the price for being
proactive or not following the rules so
that was the story behind deck slash hot
tub I did construction to put myself
through college so I built the deck
that's that's the whole story got it
okay
um is there anyone in the audience
tonight
um lives nearby neighbors anyone that
was wishes to speak to this item I don't
see any of my neighbors there
all right see seeing none then we'll
close the uh I don't know it's not
public comment what do we call I guess
comment for people with standing
um
discussion by the board any discussion
here
was the debt engineered
I'm an engineer
I'm a licensed engineering the state of
Ohio so yeah it was
yeah would you going over the variances
that are necessary sure the hot tub is
requiring a 2.2 and a half foot variance
on the side property line
the deck is in need of a three foot
variance because an uncovered deck can
be four feet from the property line
and the pergola
freestanding it could be three feet off
the property line the post itself is
four feet off the property line
you know if the board has any concerns
about the height of that being it's on a
deck and not it starts see that's this
it's not the post that's getting the
parabola is all the way in the ground
it's not it's not sitting on top of the
deck right but I was explaining that
something that Karen and I would look at
is typically on the ground and it's not
that tall but being it's on the deck
it's going to be taller so you can walk
under sure except the board doesn't have
any concern with that uh
it's really you know cantilevers but the
height maybe is more of an issue than
the location
[Music]
if the board finds it of
concerned
the debt can be four feet away but the
deck is currently just a portion of it
with a foot off that property line so
that that line where she's pointing or
hello somebody's pointing against the
mouse that is a foot or a foot and a
half I can't remember whatever on the
drawing
and the the rest of it the side the
right to the screen that part is three
or three and a half feet away is that
grass between where the deck protrudes
is that grass in that area there that it
has couple shrops it's not grass it's
but couple small trees in that area okay
yeah back there you can see it from
behind the fence there's couple trees
back there that's about it like they're
sitting in mulch
they're sitting in the ground
so mainly that portion alongside between
the property line and the hot tub is the
first
it should be in
[Music]
it can be four feet from the property
line but not one foot off the property
line so that's just
why do we need the northern portion of
the deck we have entrance from the other
three sides
they just looks cooler
it looks cooler
it's more of a you know pentagon shape
than it there's just
it just looked better
but there is no functionality issue with
removing it
your neighbor's not present here tonight
okay
if you pull can you pull the picture
if you if you look at the yeah well no
GM
yeah the next one the next photo the
lights
give me that picture
yeah from the backyard oh yeah there you
go
this is just rendering that I sent to my
wife before some of them
it's not actually how it's built
I guess you wouldn't want
up against the side of the hot tub yeah
so no idea lyrics that would be an open
Edge
where now
post this is the
um
I believe it is
yeah because this is in line was the hot
tub and the hot tub is five and a half
feet from the fence
like when I'm looking straight at it
it's in line with the edge of the hot
tub so there's two and a half
on that side yes in this area yes
my problem with this sir is you are an
engineer yes and you you knew that these
are required you I see that you were
your own client on this I hope you had a
good client you worked with
um you guys see that the answer stamp is
your own yes
my concern is that you're not coming to
us with Clean Hands on this and no no
the question is becomes how much is the
damage that's the this is why I'm here
how much do I have to go back and change
I know I'm going to live here changing
something
just a question becomes what how much
um
I'm at a loss here really to be honest
no I'm being honest I mean I feel uh I
feel for you having built this but I
also agree with Mr Schick that you know
an engineer knows you have to get a
permit and you decided not to get a
permit and then and and built it at risk
knowing that
um it you know if if no one if you
weren't an engineer and you said I had
no idea you needed a permit it would be
it would be different and that would be
lying what's that and that would be
lying and just swear to the time if
someone if this case came to us where
someone had built this thinking they
didn't need a permit
and then that's not the case here yeah
no understood understood
um
well I even think more complete drawings
that represent what you built I mean
we're looking at pictures of what you
built but there's a
giving this being a zoning not an
Architectural Review so I just provided
one she it was the zoning understand
mentioned as far as when it becomes goes
to architecture review we'll put
together dimension drawing and
sections elevations all the good stuff
that Architects will need
is there a reason
[Music]
and wanting to maintain as much of your
rear yard as possible that you oriented
that yes yes it is actually a reason
um
prior to this the concrete slab where
the hot tub sets on it was existed so
when when I purchased the hot tub we
just put it on the concrete slab that
was already there
so it wasn't all just like rushing
through it that that was a logical
reason and as for the back side of this
there used to be a stone deck existing
in that area before so the soil was
treated in this area so we built on top
of what was already there
so that was the reason except where the
corner where that shrops tree is in back
there we didn't build on top of that
because that was existing before the
same way it is now so it wasn't
completely random how it went there is
some reasoning behind that
so here's I mean my thought on it is
the top of the pergola is a foot too far
over towards the property line right
because pretty well can be within three
feet
it looks like a Pergola are actually
four feet but the overhang is too sweet
so therefore there are only two feet
from the property line and the Perla has
to be three feet
yes I can show that part yeah so so that
my opinion is we can take care of that
by cutting a foot off sure if you look
at it there's no support structure going
across there anyway I mean that would be
an easy easy fix on on that portion
um
the but you're talking I'm sorry you're
talking on the North side yeah I'm
talking so good on the bottom picture so
if you look at how that yeah okay again
you just cut a foot off of that and
piece it within code right
so you that we could solve that issue
just by cutting foot off
um the issue that I have got the hot tub
being too close I I mean I understand
there's a concrete pad there so there's
probably
there's reasons why you want it there so
I understand that the issue I have is
the deck being too close
um and I kind of bounce that off
everybody else as to
what their opinion is as to whether
going having him you know go from this
post to the pergola post and cutting
that section off whether that's too much
work whether that's
because that would take it at least that
would at least pull the deck back and
make it I mean it would be qualified so
the only thing out of code would be the
hot tub
and then the other two wouldn't go away
but it's kind of
that's just an idea I mean it's a lot of
work to trim that side off but I don't
know what everybody else's opinion is
and I'm not even saying for sure that's
what I'm asking but that would be the so
that's that's kind of what I see as a
possible solution but I don't know
whether everybody feels like that's make
too much hardship for me to cut the deck
but that's everybody else is
there is there is one missing piece of
information before you guys start
deliberating over this
um the the concrete pad extends almost
to that column so to re to cut this
section I this part will have to be
entirely reconfigured because the reason
that this column is exactly where it is
now is immediately after that the the
slab starts
right here
no ma'am the the other column
to the left the slab comes to almost out
to the fence right now that's what he's
saying so his posts that are up against
the fence are outside looking at yes
that's correct and and and that slab
existed before I came there was a shed
on top of that slab
so there was a
yeah
sure no I'm I'm not saying anything I'm
just I'm I'm bringing in the rest of the
picture why this column sits or this
post sits where it sits right now
so you'd have to you'd have to
reconfigure this area slab or take up
some portion of the juice after this lab
in order to keep to move that particular
pillar for their self
what you just asked is to me is all it
will end up being a lot of work so I it
it this area will have to be configured
differently so we can make it make that
missing part work and the slabs and the
deck structurally sound
so I don't know what's going to happen
there but if that end up being the
decision I'm just going to have to go
figure it out but there is really no
like it's not one for one I just can cut
this part and it will be good
because there are
um like structure support going both
ways so right now the deck is being held
by structure support going
parallel to the screen and perpendicular
to it
the deck was dumpster removing truck if
the if the if the uh deck was just on
the ground
would it still have to meet that
whatever that setback is
so a deck's a deck whether regardless of
height
s patio
art escapes different got it okay
concrete that this hot tub is sitting on
would that not provide some sort of
support that you could put rest a post
on there for support for across the keys
that would go perpendicular fence I'm
gonna have to ask for assistance on this
one I I I'm not comfortable making this
determination myself
I I know how to dig posts on the ground
concrete pour on top of it but I don't
work with concrete slabs so I I don't
know absolutely
no it's about four inch
I know the answer to this but I don't
know how to work the post on top of the
slab personally
it once you open the like the hot top
cover there is access from this side
I'm trying to work with the city like I
came to you with three problems so if I
can't take care of one and you know we
discuss one and you take care of one
that would be a good day so I'm I'm I'm
okay not having this it's gonna look
funny but
looks funny beats going to jail
this is the sill they're not criminal
but uh
uh I act for the sake of the board I'd
like to grow up
where I S where I feel this would be
most Equitable both for the Neighbors uh
and just to maintain I I don't like I
just don't like how this is coming to us
but I would recommend cutting it off
Jason to
uh but it's all slide out of the
furlough
and then maybe making some sort of
just go to the other photographs um we
can just enables you are
yeah this one right there you're right
next to a trampoline in a backyard
um almost once um the landscaping or
something potentially like on a wall
on the right side there to give some
additional privacy to the neighbors
the neighbors actually came and sat in
the hot tub nobody complained
it's the city that have an issue
let Mr Schick speak please right
in permitting just enough room where
maybe you're gonna have to reorient
exactly how the hot tub hood is open
it's going to have to come this way to
the west but in its current state
I just can't vote for approval for this
sure so what's that recommendation
with your application and come up with a
solution
how you want to modify that
or the end of that net and you can
support that and remove it from that
area okay so what again I'm I'm sorry I
didn't and then here or under maybe a
little bit of both
um you want to give you my opinion where
she's getting yeah
thank you
um where the post of the pervola is all
the patio to the left of that being
removed running the fence along that
back so having a very slight curve right
there at that post maybe what is it four
or five inches and then running adjacent
to the pergola
um because one of the things that we
require setbacks from the side is also
for like emergency Ingress egress and
right here there is none
um so I would strongly recommend for my
opinion that you consider cutting off
that three foot portion of that deck and
then making it perpendicular to
um the proper line is is is that post
the three foot mark
Okay so
I mean which coach has three feet
okay
so that that post line would be in order
to be in code that okay that's okay
so so just so you understand you you
have a couple options here we we could
vote tonight
and it could get voted yes with with
these conditions of making these
modifications and then and then you just
it would need to go make those we could
vote and it could get turned down and
then you you couldn't come back with
changes you at that point you'd have to
go yeah and you'd follow new application
then you could come back or an option
would be to table it
and then you could come back at the next
meeting and present something and say
okay I'm going to make these changes
and have a vote so those would be your
options
what you would like
in the light of the concerns that you've
heard here tonight
can you be sure that with Karen and I in
between this meeting and the next
meeting drawings
so could I can I ask a question and this
is you know me sort of thinking out loud
um it seems to me that to Mr Turner's
point a few minutes ago the to cut off
the top of the program is an easy fix
and then there's two open issues after
that one is the
the the closeness of the hot tub and the
closest you know the proximity of the
deck to the property line would moving
the hot tub over to get within code be
something that would be suitable for
this committee I mean we're focusing
more on the on the deck itself
and and hearing understanding that
there's the slab underneath it I mean
you'd have to extend
your
well I don't know what you'd have to do
but you'd have to move the hot tub
two and a half feet you know five feet
or whatever it is
um is that
an option that should be considered or
you know I mean
I suppose if if we table it it goes back
to you you can I I want to hear your
guys thoughts on this before I go back
and change something and it's not really
what you're looking for so we we have
been discussing two out of the three
issues so far which is the deck right
the Paragon we solved one of them right
um I was assigned
the task to figure out that part of the
deck then becomes the five and a half
feet
versus the eight feet which should leave
us was two and a half feet
so perhaps there's a solution where the
hot tub moves two and a half feet
there's some reconfiguring of the
south side of the deck
to you know expansion or whatever needs
to be done
that that
would get two out of three I suppose
well that's exactly where I I kind of go
with it if if this would have flowed
through the normal process
you would have probably been advised
early on just moved that whole portion
of the deck off the property line and
don't and not seek a variance unless
you're a very adamant about seeking a
variance for it so as I see it
I I I go there and say I think the
solution is because I do think you want
deck on all three sides that whole thing
needs to be picked up and moved just so
that it's in compliance you can fix the
pergola by lobbing the ends off of that
um and then I have a question Kathy well
if if this does eventually move on and
get approvals he'll have to go get a
building permit too right okay
and then and then then it would it would
also go to ARB
it code
well we'll have to go to ARB for no that
means code that's the thing that Karen
I got it but the height of the perfect
lab would be yeah
the reason the reason I'm I'm kind of
bringing that up and the reason I asked
you about
um the engineering on it and so forth is
just looking at the pergola
um
it's not tied off there I don't know how
you handled a moment connection or
anything on it it looks very I'm sure
you're up there shaking it and
everything but it just looks very light
to me now it's not taking on any uplift
or anything like that so I get that but
um it just looks light that's all
and that's visual that's so that could
be very much meaningless yeah and that's
code enforcement and that's why I would
like you know yeah if it goes through
and gets a building permit you'll have
to put the calculations on your drawings
and everything to show it it it's
strapped from the bottom both sides yeah
is there room on the concrete pad to
move that over you have to pour more
I'm trying to remember I think there is
about six inches I put it as far this
way as I could away from the fence I
think there's about six inches but
that's it
I think that pad underneath to me
appears like it's probably thicker than
what you know it seems like the because
if that hot tub is only sitting on like
a four inch thick pad then it seems like
it would be if it's on the ground be
very high to get to get into it
yes if it's sitting on the ground it
will need steps okay
you won't be able to get in it if the
deck is removed okay
and I I I'm sorry I I want to ask you
back so when you said something about
the hot Mr
Ryan uh
they uh when you were talking you said
something about the cover or the opening
that it has to be rotated which part
were you talking about Sir because I
can't remember I was looking towards us
right now it's going northwards I was
thinking westwards but just the cover
just well that's what I was talking
about if we were going to cut off this
particular portion you might have to
reorient the cover because you'd
reference that but sure I'm now I'm now
entertaining um the compromise that uh
Mr King has provided us
okay and that is
to move all over my you know my my
thought is you have challenges
in removing the posts on the North side
because of the concrete that's
underneath so if you move from what
you've said to move those posts two and
a half feet south or four or whatever to
line them up with the person would be a
challenge because you'd be drilling into
concrete
something associated with the concrete
correct so in order to
sort of get to this two out of three
standard that we've discussed and I you
know I'm one guy but you know would it
make sense could it make sense to move
the hot tub
South to be in compliance with the eight
foot
code requirement
to move the hot tub two and a half feet
South
keep the deck in its existing
configuration or at least the north side
of the deck in the existing
configuration and
the the variants that would be granted
would be to keep the deck
where it is and keep the deck
what is it uh
as close to the property line as they is
to move the hot tub to be
and I I have to actually go and
physically look at yeah and I don't know
the answer yeah but I I guess I I as I
see it this is not something we're going
to come up with tonight and so the
thought is consider that as an option as
you
go forward and yeah I would highly
recommend you have us table it and then
that would give you time to work with
staff and then come back and and make a
presentation as to what a what's what
Solutions you you feel you you know
would work okay would you like us to do
that yes please table it for tonight do
I hear a motion table
the second
Mr Schick and do we want to table that
till the October 27th meeting would that
would that work for you yes yes it's
plenty of time yes we'll we'll table it
to the October 27th meeting
uh roll call please Mr King yes Mr Shay
yes Mr Paul yes yes Mr Turner yes
chairman yes
so it'll be tabled to the next meeting
thank you for coming in thank you
um right
uh next applicant is
bzat22-36 for 277 South Cassidy
um
hi there hello are you the architect or
the applicant I'm the I'm the architect
okay if you could please state your name
and be sworn in Kim mechanic
yeah yes
and uh Ms Rose we have some background
on this
um
it's a little bit of background stand up
outside
um even someone requesting a 36 square
foot variance for the proposed
33 by the garage
I want to say B this was a high question
based on the plan negative that
indicated 18 age 20 being excuse me
right and the original Eve party was 10
feet in Code 11 c e paid to 90 feet
this application has gone for the
architecture review board and they
looked favorably on the Aesthetics of
the garage wherever they discussed if
there could be adjustments to make each
women without making the bachelor larger
face larger and which might also allow a
height of the structure to unique code
the applicant was determined to see if
they could adjust the plan prior to the
UTA meeting I will defer to Karen for
design modification comments and
progression of plans since the Airbnb
right okay Ms Bowker could you talk
about the ARB meaning the architecture
review board was
um fine with the design it's a
recommendation to
um to approve it with the condition that
the AIDS being designed to match the
original house because right now there's
boxes and that's one detail that the
board is pretty picky about the thieves
match when I say that I'm talking about
right here
yeah
that's just an architectural dealership
and I uploaded I actually did change
that detail and I
brought in okay maybe I'm in the wrong
drawing but well we did so I put it
unfortunately the mess I've gotten to
you I resubmitted and I we did bring the
eve hikes down to the ninth bottom of
Eve at nine foot maintaining the same
size fascia oh I'm sorry well I'm just
looking at that and then but we did did
update the details to have on the
gutters and then called off for wood
trim as recommended in in lieu of the
vinyl
um and then change the slope of the roof
so it would we'd be under the 18 feet so
the architecture review
um board details the applicant was good
with we will work on those outside of
this yeah
but what I did want to touch on is that
the applicant did lower the ridge line
and the eve line so that it doesn't need
those two variances so all she's now
asking you for
um is the 336 foot square foot just a
tiny area variance so you can get into
the details of why I mean the main
reason is
um the owner would prefer to have he has
three garage doors off the back and he'd
prefer them to be nine foot wide doors
and
just to have ample room to you know
install them properly
pushes to 33 feet and then the 20-foot
garage depth is you know more
comfortable garage depth for typical
cars so
it's the access off the alley
the
um the garage which access I mean the
garage doors the the main garage doors
are off now yes and then there's a man
door that faces the house on the back
side
as somebody who shares an Alleyway
garage but who's now relegated to
parking on the street the uh the
struggle is real
with car spaces with car sizes these
days
um is there is there anything else you
want to mention
um I think the only other thing I think
we added which is more of an ARB thing
we did they we requested to add a window
facing because it was a corner lock
facing Dale Avenue and I have that on
the updated drawing too but otherwise I
mean that's
effective we're very pleased that Apple
can lower the ridge line so that you
don't need variance change the height so
you don't need the variance is just the
36 foot square foot area variance right
now yeah is there anyone in the audience
that wishes to speak to this application
all right seeing no one will proceed
any discussion amongst the board
and we have findings of facts and
conclusions of the law please
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
bzap-22-36 for property located at 277
South Cassidy upon consideration of the
application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before it the
board finds the applicant has proven the
criteria to Grant an area variance in
Mexico section 12 2611c have been met
and that a 36 corporate variance from
Mexico section
1252.15 A to allow a detached garage to
be 660 square feet
shall be granted as
submitted and do you understand the
findings of facts and decisions as a
board as she read yes thank you and I
also include the certificate of
appropriate yes as modified and further
uh recommended by the architecture
leading award and granted thank you
I hear emotions from the board
in a second
it's like a call we could have a roll
call please
Mr Schick yes Mr Levine yes Mr Turner
yes Mr King yes Mr Hall yes
thanks
yes sorry very nice very nice it's a
very nice application thank you thank
you for working with us yes
we could
get this all done so thank you so much
uh next application is
bzap22-39 for 27.35 at Allegheny
uh Curtis and Megan Allman if you could
come up if you could be sworn in please
sure please state your name Curtis home
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes thank you
Ms Rose is there some background on this
okay
um the applicant seek an architecture
review approval of a certificate of
appropriateness for a one-story Edition
at the rear of the house the applicant
is also seeking a 1.5 foot variance from
Mexico section 12 5209 are zoning which
requires a 6.6 foot side yard setback to
allow the proposed Edition to be five
feet from the exist the East Side
property line and in line with the
existing structure
so
this lot is 40 foot by 120 the side yard
setback requirement is 1 6 of the lot
width so
takes us to 6.6 feet the owners are
looking to expand the first floor and
keep it in line with the existing
structure
uh which is five feet from the East
property line and 10 feet from the West
property line the survey of the
neighboring house was provided
the house to the East and included in
the packet of information and indicates
that that house sits 15.7 feet from
their East property line
of 2735 Allegheny which I thought was
important so the fact that he's
encroaching you've still got this
distance between the neighboring home
staff like to point out that the
proposed Edition would take building lot
coverage to 29 percent at 1425 square
feet and the building lot coverage limit
is 35 which is 1680 square feet site
does not have off street parking
currently and an attempt to go to the
garage and site on the site may be
difficult to accomplish without
additional variants for lot coverage or
the 10-foot separation required between
a house and a detached garage
there are several design suggestions at
the ARB meeting and it was sent on to
the visap for zoning review without a
design recommendation if the board finds
it appropriate to consider granting a
variance they may also consider a reman
back to the ARB for final determination
of a certificate of approach through
this
the owner has been working with staff on
options based on comments received from
the arv I will let Karen talk about the
design considerate considered and the
owner would like to
receive some feedback as to best options
based on the fighting of the existing
home one option could possibly meet Step
Up requirements
so and
um so I just want to give a little
history of this because it's unusual
um the applicant is working hard as a
homeowner to get a design done
um and and I don't speak for you you'll
have time we have getting to know each
other we met today for a long time
well for a while
um before the the honor before this
family goes through the expense of
hiring a designer which they understand
that that is going to be necessary
um the architecture review board
encouraged him
to come on to get some feedback from all
of you we know that this doesn't have
the information that you need right now
unless you're going to prove it as is
and that is not a recommendation of the
architecture review board nor of myself
and I believe those of you who are
designers and Architects on this board
would probably agree
um we have sat down and looked at some
options we looked at some really good
options today to get rid of that long
dark hallway that goes all the way
through the lot and I'm very narrow and
and turn the addition so that we have
two group lines that may um with
different directions so it's a more
sensitive and actually more enjoyable
space to be
um we don't have any drawings yet we did
have some sketches that we worked on
today but we really wanted that the
problem with this project is that they
have a very very small lot and we wanted
to get the temperature of this board in
some kind of a variance we actually have
figured out a way to do it with probably
possibly with no variance by doing a
little bit of an offset but it is only
6.6 feet on either side that we have to
work with so
um I know it's a slippery slope asking
you for
a head nod but we wanted to just kind of
show this project to you before
um before the applicant goes ahead and
goes to the expense of hiring and
designer to go into construction
documents or to do it
More Design development do you have some
of those sketches
well the one that it's very colorful the
one that you did
um
oh goodness I mean it's
kind of uh scratch if you will but I I
think I could talk through it well I
don't I don't know if you you why don't
you go ahead and talk about it for a
second sure I think is that clear yeah
but we don't want to spend a lot of time
we just wanted to get the board's
tolerances I think we have it to the
point where if if I'm
here's a good I think this
this
is with the addition correct this is the
porch right here right yeah
the proposed starts about right here
right where the cursor is
there's five feet here what we're
suggesting and there's a tend to be here
so what I worked through with the
applicant today is that he really does
have like three and a half feet that he
could go out this direction here and he
could even even though this is already
non-conforming on this side where it's
existing at five feet you could really
even go for it you wouldn't need a
variance for this part of the house
and go and so it's just offset it
it's still entertaining like it's a
small house so what we're asking is
actually
are you comfortable with the leeway of
six inches a foot to work with here and
there it's not saying that I mean it's a
slippery slope I know because they we
don't want you to come back and feel
like you've approved it but it's an
expense to go down the next Road
um I think it's a much better solution
to turn in one one additional if I make
um so the new originally we're just
going to keep one straight Gable all the
way back ARB very um understandably
critical of that
um so the new kind of idea is to make
the addition a perpendicular roof line
and then disappear the original one into
that so you would be looking at kind of
a a side there
um
so
if you go back to the site the site plan
the essentially ARB does not like
straight back with a line the what we
talked about today was you could you
could bump in and be within variance the
other ID but that making that
perpendicular roof could be challenging
the other idea is to bump out but that
would be even the further variance and
and not sure that might be the
temperature
um idea there but
um I feedback would be much appreciated
ideas things that we haven't even
approach there I think it's like we're
not to my colleagues on the board
she is um what is your 27.35
um
one of the smallest houses on the block
of my car and it's hard to see it on
that yeah easier here
so it's it's 900 square feet
family of four
difficulties
you know he could probably be go out
towards the street more but the the
front of the house it's 32 feet back
from the property line I believe is 30
foot setback well it's 30 feet of the
average existing dwelling setback
whichever is greater right and so I know
that if you can look down I mean porch
can encroach 10 feet into that setback
an open porch sure
okay
so I have certain two questions the one
plan on here to show the garage
um since attached I don't know whether
that's an old survey or what that was oh
oh so the survey that was our neighbor's
yard that was to confirm our setbacks so
that so the neighbors yard actually does
have a garage so if you if you pull back
up I think the ones he's referring to
that that is not ours that is not our
survey our house is actually to the west
of that so that's how that was to show
that that house is 15 feet actually and
really to verify that the fence is is
the actual property line and that's how
I knew we were with we needed to
requested areas so
um well I don't know what anybody else's
thought is but and I'm not going to vote
tonight as Karen said but historically
in my personal opinion I do not have a
huge issue
as long as
if a property's existing where it needs
a variance if that Edition or whatever
does not encroach more than existing
property is I kind of look at that
almost as hardship so for me personally
I don't really have an issue with the
wall Continuum but I can't tell you I'll
vote for I see it but
just historically that's kind of what my
thought process is actually sure can you
say that the first part of that yeah so
so right now the the five feet is not is
already out of out of code yes okay
right right so what my point is if we've
looked at these before where people put
a screen and porch on the back or
something like that and as long as they
keep that five feet wall just basically
extend the five foot wall and don't
encroach any more than what the existing
property has done
in the past we've looked at that I mean
I personally have looked at that as
saying well it's already encroaching
it's not going to encroach more I don't
have as much problem with that got it um
again until we see it we don't know for
sure but that's I'm just giving you what
my opinion is that you're looking for
where to go with the plan
um I I mean I like the fact you guys are
open conversation about it I think I
think from uh
I mean I do think from a I'm not an
architect but from a character's
standpoint you know
turning it could be helpful I lived in a
shotgun house
mine was actually smaller than what your
house is but
um okay but yeah so um I mean I do like
that but again it's your property and
and I just want you to know when it
comes to looking at the variants that's
probably how I would
there's maybe another option there's a
Code section that says a proposed
addition to a residential structure with
non-conforming side yard setback
that meets all the zoning and building
standards May encroach up to two feet
into the required side yard setback to
no closer than five feet from the
property line provided that the proposed
Edition is at least eight inches further
from the property line than the building
line of the existing enclosed living
space of the principal structure
so if you bump that back eight inches
along that
side property line would not require
variance so
which direction I'm sorry so it was okay
the house is at five feet from the
property line and we were talking with
Karen earlier about popping that in six
inches just to offset it if you offset
it eight inches even though it doesn't
meet the 6.6 foot setback
this code allows you to bump it in eight
feet and you're still considered meeting
the setback and you don't need to be
eight inches so eight inches okay so six
yeah well I mean I think well I mean
that's that's interesting I I don't know
the regulations as good as you do
obviously that was the only setback
issue correct correct it meets
everything that means eight inches and
you stay under your lot coverage you
would simply need Architectural Review
yeah there's really just not enough
information in front of you to make any
kind of decision sure and I was pretty
comfortable on my own
advising
um this applicant that this boarded like
she said historically is a pretty
tolerant of those small
variations because this this roof line
looks like it could be a simple thing
but it's not because if it's offset it's
not as is not as easy to do as it looks
on paper so there might be a need for
six inches here but and I just the
applicant wanted to just hear how this
board would look at it and you know I
said we don't have enough to really talk
about here but I think that we're on the
right direction and especially with what
happened just pointed out I could solve
the root problem potentially but I just
wanted the applicant to and it was his
request to come here to feel comfortable
that this is a project worth putting
look we want to encourage people to
stand Bexley we don't want you to feel
like you have to leave because you know
you can't put an addition on for because
you have two kids and that would you say
900 square 900 square feet and I work
from home and they're both under three
so
not yet no obviously
I hope not
Mr almond if I guess I think our first
apartment with my wife is bigger than
United States
that was we've always been like how
would we not kill each other we bought
the house with the intent of expanding
oh yeah okay well since since you're
here tonight to take the temperature of
the group I could only offer my own and
say that uh right now I'm very warm to
the idea okay
would you like us to table it to a
specific date or just table it until can
we table it until table it until October
27th and he can let us know if he wants
to we can table it at that time so we
know not to put it on the agenda um if
if that is the I mean if we table it
um to go to the next ARB if we do not
need a variance how would that influence
out if you think you'll be ready in two
weeks I'm mailing out notices next week
for the October
[Music]
in
over a 13th meeting
before you come down November okay uh
that's three weeks from today I mean I
let's this table it's October 27th and
then we can make changes yeah yes that's
more than five it's gonna look great and
we can meet again certainly that'd be
great do I hear a motion to table to
October 27th so move Turner in a second
uh all in favor say aye aye all opposed
say no
uh let the record show that was
unanimously approved
uh thanks for coming in today no thank
you I appreciate everyone's feedback
and thank you to Karen
eat again okay
um
you can ask me the casting ham still
potatoes table correct it is that yeah
the fence part we'll we'll do uh move on
to
bzap22-37 which is 929 South Francis
the app can please come up and be sworn
in
okay state your name uh James Knox with
Suncraft you sound we swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes thank you
Kathy if you could give us a background
on this uh yes
uh this application was originally
submitted as an ARB application and it
was approved in July
by the architecture review board it has
since been determined that the site
plane was not accurate and that a
10-foot distance required by the Sony
code was actually eight feet
so the design
um is coming before this board to see if
they would consider uh granting a
variance to allow
the porch to be constructed as proposed
it is shifted to the furthest
furthest away from the house is attached
to the rear of the house and if the
board finds that a variance is
appropriate I would also find it
appropriate to approve the design for a
certificate of appropriateness based on
the favorable favorable design approval
from the architecture review
and and again what what is the variance
they're seeking it's it's not a fire
code it's just a a
detached garages have to be 10 feet away
from a principal structure so right now
the principal structure they're like to
add the screen forge on the back of the
conceal structure however it's only
going to be 10 or 8 feet away from the
detached corruption gotcha gotcha stupid
periods yeah
is that one we need to write down as a
insurer Vision where we've written that
down before no we've just had a lot of
them that we've approved it's not a fire
code issue so it's just a Betsy but
there are some situations that it
doesn't it's not always appropriate
because visually or sometimes there's
other things involved like sidewalks or
landscape or it's a solid mass and it's
not a an Airy Mass that's simply
screening yeah we've had like the
situations where if it's only six feet
next to the garage it's really like a
tunnel
um this is not that kind of situation
this is a deck yeah if you want to
subscribe yeah tell us about the screen
dim Forge please uh yes
um we
um originally you know proposed a
20-foot by uh 10 foot screen porch on
the rear of the home uh currently there
is no access from the rear of the house
to the rear property rear rear yard uh
we're adding a door inside the porch and
then it's a screened in porch we have a
screen door on the side to come out and
go out onto the driveway area uh
pavement area from there
um
the as as before it was already approved
um architecturally at the at the review
board in July at that time we had not
determined the exact distance from the
it was brought up that the distance from
the garage to the new structure was
going to be uh
more less than 10 feet that is required
and that's when we went out and measured
and got an exact measurement there for
that um
garage to the house and then with the
new porch how close we're actually going
to be and it was in my AutoCAD it was
like eight foot one
so that's when we determined we needed
to get a variance for that is there
anyone in the audience wishes to speak
to this application
where's the dog seeing no one will move
on
yeah I took that picture
just drop white dogs and everything any
uh any questions or comments on this
could we have the findings of facts and
conclusions of or in decisions of the
board please the findings impacting
decision of the board for application
number
vcap-22-37 for property located at 1990
Francis Avenue on consideration of the
application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony report the board
finds the applicant has proven the
criteria to Grant and very variance in
Mexico section 12 2611 C have been met
and that a two-foot variance from Mexico
section 1252.15 G3 to allow a screen
force to be eight feet from the detached
garage shall be granted as submitted the
board further finds it appropriate to
accept approve a certificate of a
Brokenness as
are you determined by the Architectural
Review Board we have a um someone make a
motion to approve
can I make a motion to approve so long
as the dog has a dog bed out of that
Supreme Court
we are second
thing
if we get a roll call please
Mr King yes Mr Hall yes
Mr Turner yes Mr Levine yes yes chairman
Marsh yes thank you for coming in thank
you
so we've got other business we've got
solar panel revisions proposed amendment
ordinance
14-22 solar code amendments I know this
is this has been before us before
there's been discussion is is there any
staff up here I would just say that this
um this is the proposed amended
ordinance to our solar code that you all
have seen uh I think a couple times
um and had recommended that it go to
architecture review board since they're
actually the ones that review Dollar
Generals
aesthetically anyway we did spend a lot
of time with that art center review
board with this we have some very
um
productive intense robust conversations
even a special meeting and went over it
and it's all been uh a lot of things
have been addressed this is I'm hoping
you all have a chance to read this this
is the new proposal amended ordinance at
this point we would like to for you guys
to make a motion to recommend this to
city council for approval unless you
feel otherwise you're certainly welcome
to put any comments along with it but
this is the work of what has been a
problem
but a good one does anyone have any
questions or comments about that
would someone like to make a motion that
we vote to recommend we're just
recommending approval to Mexico City
Council someone like to make that motion
we vote on this I'll make a motion to
approve recommendations is in the city
council and I said do we have a second
Mr chick
if we could have the roll call please Mr
Schick yes
Mr Hall yes Mr Ryan Yes okay yes Mr
Turner yes chairman Marsh yes
and we've got a draft design guidelines
discussion we do
just by way of background
the presentation of the original of the
initial draft
um when we were first putting it all
together well we are to the point now
that we're ready to take it to city
council and
um I sent all of you an email with the
PDF attached I it will be dramatically
different after this meeting in about a
week because I've already had lots of
comments from nothing substantive but
you know you can imagine from
architecture newborn lots of comments to
integrate into it to read some some just
spelling here you know on one end and
some you know
like you know review of flow charts so
I'm actually going to pull it off in the
InDesign which is the program that I
used to do it I'm sure some of you
you're probably familiar with it
so it's pardon me if it looks a little
you know rough
um let me first of all just for you
Sharon for those who are watching it
it's great
um we're really excited about it
um
and what I'm gonna do is after this
meeting before I do like a little
presentation before after this meeting
I'm going to add this board and I'll
ever look at Walgreens full board
members to the Adobe comment this this
denim Adobe Creative Suite so it is
already set up to as a PDF in Adobe an
acrobat which all of you can get and you
can put comments on the side I'm gonna I
will tell you to please put your
comments in there in the next couple
weeks we like to bring this back for a
recommendation to city council at the
next meeting
it is a living document it's meant to be
able to document it'll never be finished
um but we're at a point now that we
really feel like we have enough in here
that we need to get it published and
it's going to be an electronic document
that's not gonna say and we're not good
enough
some copies around for people who still
like paper or trying to avoid that if we
can
um it also and I've already been using
it in this manner gives me an
opportunity to print off like like
you'll see we're going to scroll through
this quickly
um because I know you've all seen it and
you're going to have the you're going to
have a card copy and you already did
um it'll get I've been using it already
for printing off sheets like somebody is
doing a garage like you know we've seen
today to show them some of the garage
sketches things that you've already
um scene
so let me just kind of explain the
approach I know you all have heard this
I'm gonna do a quick summary table
contents are a good way to see how we
approached it
um we have gone through we've realized
that not just residents even Architects
um applicants that are designers but not
maybe not Architects Engineers we're
we're just not on the same page so we
have to set up a document where we
um put out there
the um
the the kind of
um terms definitions that we feel are
really important for people to
understand
um what this is going to be published
online so you don't see any page numbers
it's just going to be clickable so you
if you want to see for example you know
some rules about wood siding and trim
you would just click on that it'll take
you to that page that's the next step
that's actually an easy part of this in
this program
but we're not going to do it until we're
ready
um
so you can see we have introduction
purpose of the design standards
um all kinds of definitions that you all
are used to hearing but I have to
explain time and time again so it'll be
really nice to have a document just hand
to people a big big part of this
document is the history
um well a lot of it's about process and
procedures
um Kathy and Jason soudy recently this
is something you would not have seen yet
in your where I'm updating constantly
I've made the flow charts awesome I
think this they're graphically so much
better you can see like this is the flow
chart for an application review that
needs no variance this is one with the
variants it's for a planning project
um we're just constantly
improving this document a huge part of
this thanks to both Larry Hellman and
Bill heyer two of our Architects on
architecture review board and people and
citizens who have been really involved
in
and historic preservation Committee of
which Connie Yvonne
um really wanted to give the backbone of
this document a
documentation of the history and the
districts in the Styles indexing so we
spent a lot of time on this document
developing a vaccine neighborhoods map
and this may seem you know why is this
design guidelines and standards
even I kind of question like if it
should be two different documents but
the more we developed it it is
invaluable because if you're as soon as
you realize what neighborhood in you're
in you go to that page and it opens a
whole vocabulary of what kind of things
your house
um you know would look good amongst the
kind of language that so I'll give you
an example here and you'll see this for
all these neighborhoods it talk about
the neighborhood history the kind of
setbacks the kind of Section Street
sections
um the kind of Street trees the kind of
spaces in between the houses and then we
also have
um
districts where there are very specific
let me get to them
some very specific language like when
you have front porch front porch
districts so we give
um something with some broken down
examples a lot of text about these
individual places we show the context of
the houses next to each other how
there's how when Kathy you know we
talked about the average front setback
this puts it into perspective of why
that's an important code issue for
applicants it's been already without
even being approved yet an invaluable
tool that athletes but I'll have
somebody that is in one of these
districts and I'll pull it up and it'll
it'll be like an aha moment for them to
see how or how you know the city became
the context of their neighborhood both
spatially and and vocabulary when I say
vocabulary I mean what kind of
architecture fits
um as we go down you can see that we
really talk about Ridge Heights next to
each other see this is an example here
um in the pleasant region Francis where
you have so many different styles but
you can see that Ridge lines match up
when we sit here especially in
architecture review board we talk about
your Ridge lines your forward plates and
we get a lot of lengths there sometimes
if it's not an architect that's
presenting or an owner so this is a
really great graphic tool education tool
for our resume
Bill heyer did most of these sketches
and drawings along with myself
his firm was my partner in this and
um it's all I don't know if you all know
this program very well but it's all
linked to the images so if something
changes in our code if something changes
in in how we want to represent a certain
neighborhood or show a detail all we
have to do is change it on the master
the individual picture and it
automatically updates in here so
technologically I think it's really what
we needed
eventually we'll also put code links to
each of these as well that's another big
goal that when this is all approved by
city council which will hopefully be in
November December we hope for the by the
first of the year this is a working
document with an approval from city
council that allows us to constantly
update as long as within code we're
going to constantly add to it you know
um but you can see we talk about average
height and average floor plates with
different styles so we can think why
it's important
um where it says in the gray where it's
where your first floor plate is all that
has so I'm just going to skim through
here you
until I get to the end
there's a very unsustainability part is
it currently reflective language yes
that's why I haven't read I'm actually
going to get there I just want to get
through the History part here or the no
no you're fine I would rather not just
talk non-stop because I like I like
happens to be interactive but there's so
much to go through I mean we're at 160
Pages
um but this then we start getting using
that information and using those images
and in setting them into some real
guidelines so for example this is a good
example of somebody who wants to build a
modern house
for a more contemporary design
that's fine we don't have a style to
dictate it but this really shows them
because we talk it all the time but
until you see it graphically you really
don't understand why grid is important
that
that raising your grade inappropriately
like this is a bad example and I know
you guys have all seen most of you have
seen
so we've taken those slides and put them
in here like this one I use all the time
already
um
you know you can just see like this
happens all the time
um it can this will this has already
prevented it from getting to the board
with these kind of what I would say
mistakes because they're architecturally
not good design
so
um we talk about different styles three
Bay two bays so people are
um I'm so excited because people are
super interested to learn about what
their house is these are still
descriptive ways of doing ways uh kinds
of houses Styles types modernist house
but we use the same words in all of them
so people the residents and applicants
can understand that and even in the need
but there's this
um
they're all
we then have if we have how many of you
have had the chance to flip through it
we should scroll really quickly we took
the time to really document some great
details here in Bexley and these are
really fun example entries
oh it was amazing
yeah you can really like oh
or I've never seen anywhere else
yeah we did learn 20 years 25 years ago
people have been here that long that it
was a bad idea to put bad examples
because we actually had to do that when
we first
got architecture we had words of Shame
so we have shutter details you know
people
often ask for different ideas for
shutters
um one of the board members ideas oh you
guys don't really deal with us but we
deal with sleep removals constantly now
that it's late is turning 100 and 110
years old
um so we put slave roof examples to show
how beautiful they are but I'm going to
be and I'm almost done with it inserting
a page that really talks about what kind
of slate is what you know is it
Pennsylvania slate is it Vermont's like
what are the differences why are some
really just not that good because there
are slate that is that crumbled you know
and
um we want people to understand the
difference
different ways of doing brick and ways
to show herringbone designs and you know
inlays all kinds of things
unfortunately that beauty of
architecture has been lost over a lot of
times have been lost over the years and
it's amazing when you show people these
pictures they really can understand
and Bill likes to call sagoshi or Global
good stuff
um
the difference all these examples okay
you can do this on your own then we
really get into some details leave
details
um because
the board is really cracked down on
having people not just put those box
details that you find in
um the kind of newer
like middle range
uh suburbs we really want to keep remain
keep the detail of the original houses
um we really have labeled all these so
people understand what we're talking
about examples of of
and then we have a family tips
that's what I mean by the Box details
which the architect that was here
tonight can change hers to match the
rest of the house too
um so things not to do we have porches
porch details
um
I'm just living through these um
different kinds of and we just wanted to
show because when we talk amongst
ourselves and say oh that window's a six
over nine these people are like most of
the time people are like we don't even
know me at all so it's all there and
examples in pictures
um Dormers
uh Dormer types I know that this one
link needs to do fixed
and we'll get more details and then I
think you guys might remember these I
know years maybe a couple years ago
before code we did the garage
um yeah we do in the ordinance these are
kind of a simplified cleaned up version
of the things the sketches that I did to
these are these are very helpful for
people to understand they're hard to say
that but you can see up close
so these these have been incredibly
valuable in printing off the page for
whatever District you're in to show
people exactly where to put the garage
that's why I don't have that much
tolerance for variances in garage they
have a like a blooperative right here so
these are all the different block sizes
in the garages
and then the um the parts that just have
the words those will just be filled in
over time we just decided at some point
in time we need to get this approved and
all of these will just simply be
Visual and graphic representations of
what the code is which is what
everything else is too which I have an
example of that in
similar things so this is the exact this
is the
architectural guidelines and image
representation of exactly what you just
approved
so it will also have a link
with pictures we thought good photos are
better to show what to not to do and
what to do
um there's some historic preservation
guidelines just so you know we're still
on a parallel track trying to figure out
what we eventually can do to denote
something as historically significant
because
they're not really part of the national
register but
um we have lifted things from the
general
um
from the guidelines for rehabilitation
from the federal government so that
people there are people who are truly
really interested in preserving their
houses so we have now the doctor to help
them do that
um roof replacement all this stuff and
the stuff you guys deal with or at least
Architectural Review Board does
underneath you
thank you
um it's been a labor of love and
sometimes not but it's exciting it's not
worth nowhere near done it doesn't
really matter how long the document ever
gets because it's going to be a click
you know clicks
um feel free to give me as many or as
little comments as you want but I'm
gonna I already have it set up on Adobe
um on the acrobat so that you can give
me comments on the side
um today it's kind of a place over the
years yeah it is it's good yeah
so that's where we are
um it'll still be your mind for the next
month well it'll be refined forever but
uh in the next month I'll keep refining
and refining it and then got your
meeting next month I'm hoping to get a
recommendation for city council to
approve it for the architecture review
board to use
and you're an important part of that
because architecture keyboard
appeals come to you
got it any questions about that
and then before we is there anything
else before we adjourn is there this
we've had this issue about the proximity
of a structure to the garage like the
porch we had
we consider
making it recommending a change so that
those don't come here well and one
thought would be to go to staff let
staff review it
um I I think that question came up when
Jason City and I were redoing the zoning
code what was the reasoning behind that
10-foot separation other than
Aesthetics
it's not it's not a fire code
so but maybe there is something to that
and based on what the structure is I
would say not clear would be the way for
us to start to leave the city council
our city council rep so if he feels like
and also just like I did for this wasn't
for you guys but just like I did for
solar panels we can go through and see
how often this really even happens like
solar panels was deceivingly low in
terms of how many people actually asked
for from animals but but in that case I
mean there was one that we actually had
to reconsider because if you're just
looking at it on paper and yes it meets
code you know check mark check mark but
when you have a building that's
blocking in the neighbors who have been
blocked in by the other surrounding
houses we really had them reconsider
that and that was one of those cases
where it was less than 10 feet from the
principal structure to the house but
those were also solid structures so
I mean yeah I think I think it's in
place just to manage the densification
if that's even a word but dissification
of uh of a property because you start
putting a bunch of little buildings real
close together then you almost have your
own little village on your property so I
and we may have come to that conclusion
when we first look at that what the
reasoning was you know where you're
doing a where you're doing a light
screen porch Edition one stored in the
back of the building
that's one thing versus something that's
really intruding on that and has has
some serious Mass to it where we may
want to take a different look and
approach to that right
um yeah that's what I was saying I'm not
sure how often it even comes before us
yeah yeah not really too often but I
think it is based on what it is that's
encroaching with something solid or
any other comments
I got a question I have a question so I
don't know you can hear this too I guess
it's to Kathy so for those that don't
know the Huntington house pool got
overturned by Council do we
get to understand why Council overturned
that I watched the hearing we don't hear
what council discusses Council obviously
didn't come to us to talk about it a lot
of it it seems like that
council's over I don't since I've been
on board I don't think Council has not
been returned an appeal so
I just did you read the decision I did
not read the decision I don't see that
why don't I go ahead and send a copy of
the decision to the members and and this
is a perfect example of why it's
important when when the whole board
majority is dead set against something
that when you state your no you state
why because if it does get appealed at
least Council has something that they
can use that this is the reason why this
this should not happen but when you
don't have all those reasons listed
with the decision
it's really puts him in an awkward
position okay and the other question I
have about that is
so there's a plaintiff and then there's
basically a defendant right so the
question I have on that is
why is the neighbor
basically responsible for coming up to
argue the point of what the decision of
the board that I don't understand why
that's not a city person or someone from
the board that represents I mean if if
you have the plaintiff they have their
reasons
they're not appealing the decision
yeah I in the in the individual in the
case of Abington house sort of talked
about that at the opening their comments
really soon
the observative position to defend the
decision of what is going to be planned
they don't have any incentives yeah and
that's what I don't understand I don't
understand how basically you're
appealing a decision by a city and maybe
it's a bigger law than I understand and
I'm just trying to get clarification of
how it's basically the appeal of a board
from the city
yet The Neighbor Next Door has to come
up and try to support why the board made
their decision I don't I don't
understand I think they gave them an
opportunity to speak yeah I I don't
think that's technically the way it
works I think they gave that person an
opportunity because they were uh most
impacted and and I don't I don't
necessarily I don't want to speak for
city council but that's that's my uh
suggestion
um and clearly
city council could have come to to us
and have they could have requested
someone come speak if they had wanted
that
okay I just like I said it's more me not
understanding exactly how the process
works I think it would be really
productive if the next time we have
Catherine here I mean our attorney
um because I'm not sure that's actually
the case that they're allowed to I think
they have reviewed their decision
they have executive sessions
[Music]
speak or you speak I think your decision
has to include
the reasons which is why if you ever
notice how Mr B Hall always says I'm
voting no for this reason we need
everyone to do that because things I
don't I think city council is not
allowed to do but Calgary well that was
the same situation with the 69 South
Cassie Camp I mean they didn't have
anything that they could grow even if
they didn't like maybe what what it was
but they don't have a reason for to
support this decision it puts them in an
awkward position
and that's I'm sorry so I don't know all
the circumstances with the case but I
you know I know it peripherally
um and I know from standing there
working with my own clients when you get
into a situation like this and most
municipalities you want that decision to
stay in Visa app you don't want it to go
to council and that's always the
objective when I've walked out and we
haven't had support through bzap usually
admin comes to us
um 90 if not 95 of the time it says what
do you want to do we've got to get this
you know yes council is is an option but
you don't want to go there
so I like I said I wasn't here for it I
do know it was a little bit contentious
and everything
um just from what I've read and just did
my own research on and everything but
um I I think it should be an attitude
that it gets resolved here and not sent
to council more times than not and I'm
I'm not saying it wasn't so don't hear
me that wrong on that either but yeah
but the legal questions I would prefer
that you know Mark or Catherine
because the other point that I felt was
I don't know whether I'm supposed to be
saying this or not but he kept arguing
that that's the backyard of the house
and I think even during our discussions
it was argued whether it was a front or
a side yard I don't really remember
us as a board saying This truly is the
backyard of the house therefore the
pool's okay and I don't think we ever
said that I mean I don't I know I didn't
and I don't think anybody else did but
we didn't and that's why I brought it up
that's why I brought up that motion the
following month is I I personally felt
that the evidentiary record was very
weak against the board I think that we
needed to have and I specifically talked
about front and rear yard setbacks and
then we needed to determine exactly what
that was but did you did but did anyone
say that that was the backyard
nobody did and right and uh but that's
why I was in part that was one of the
main
um
matters I want to discuss but I made
that motion the following month and we
didn't get to that because it got very
contentious with some other members of
the board
um and then we just we didn't have the
discussion and it's truly one of the
most unique properties in vaccine just
with the society and everything and
that's where you have a variance process
when you are dealing with that
irregular site so I I'm not I'm not
going to argue that it is it is a very
unique process but one of the
discussions I remember having was that
they've come in before on that that
applications in the past and there's
been discussions for one application the
front door was Drexel one application
the front door was Clifton well now
we're saying that neither of those are
the front door now it's a third front
door on the north side of the house so
so they can't just pick the front door
based on what they're trying to do
that and and in every zoning District
every zoning District your lots are
longer front to back than they are side
side you look at that lot guess what
it's longer than Drexel to the west and
shorter this way so if I didn't know
anything about old planning or anything
I would have thought for sure that
Drexel was just based on the properties
layout so that was the case and I have
to set back here a bit of a lot of an
accessory structure that had back five
feet further then the principal
structure had to be from this street
side property loan so I possibly could
have approved a pool in that location
but because of an old ordinance that
allowed a pool there and at that time
they declared at the front yard I'm not
going to play flip-flop and say I've got
a legal document that says this is the
front yard so we got to proceed forward
but that's kind of a confusion in how
things are plotted because things change
from block to block at the end of the
block I mean Corner lots have basically
two front yards so I'm going to argue
that I just I just when I watch the
hearing and his argument was that this
is truly the backyard of the house if I
didn't that was you never mentioned
if I didn't know anything about it had
no history on it did you if you were
driving down the street you saw that
house you would say the front door of
the house is facing the property next
door you would not say that you would
you would say
the front door space ignorance yeah but
if you if you didn't know anything about
that property the history of that
property you would you would you would
say north side also yeah no I'd say that
I'd say that's a door that's not the
front of the house though well I mean my
parents sent her the back door of their
house because that's where the driveway
is
yeah I mean this is just you know
this is why they're here that's why
they're here because this is yes this is
not a clear-cut answer to that question
so we're looking at it from physically
looking at it I think the problem was
and I'm trying to understand this
through our work with Catherine who's
been pretty good about explaining it to
Kathy and I that when a board has a QR
board has a contentious case like that
and you as a board member any of you as
a board member
um feel that you're not in favor of it
you need to explain it on the record
that is
um and maybe your your particular reason
was it just doesn't feel like that's the
front yard right and but that but I
guess what I'm asking that and again I'm
not trying
to be confrontational but I'm just
trying to understand that you know even
when our decision was made we made
comments about it was too close to the
property line
um
and the question I just had was
during our hearing I never felt like it
was discussed as a backyard and then
they come in and basically justify it by
saying a backyard and then Council
approves it so I don't I think it was
clear that this board did not feel that
that was the backyard
and so when nobody from our board is
there to represent us and the argument
is they're appealing what our decision
is I mean I was watching the thing and I
was just like it's not a backyard like
every time you sit backyard I'm like
it's not a backyard and I just I don't
understand I just don't understand the
process of of how
yeah I had no council's supposed to read
our notes it's supposed to read the
minutes of the meeting and that's where
they're supposed to get their opinion
but I just don't understand that I I
mean I think it's a great suggestion the
next time Catherine's here to walk us
through that and you know and we have
discussed it in the future going going
forward we just need to make sure that
if something uh gets gets if there's a
vote against something that uh after the
vote we
you know put into the record why we
voted against it so it's Crystal Clear
um and I think you know that's good
practice and I think also when we
approve things if there's unusual
circumstances we should say that too so
that when someone else comes in for a
variance they can look and see okay well
this was a really big lot or it was a
corner lot because again you know we
have a lot of we have a lot of corner
Lots we have a lot of unusual things
that end up here and I just think it
helps everybody if there's explanations
in there
um and
foreign
that's where I'm going because I I think
it's it's not about rehearing the case I
think it's about feeling how the
decision was justified I'm not an
attorney but what you said yes
definitely that's the way I understand
it
anything else
all right we're adjourned thanks thank
you everyone
and Karen thank you as always you do a
fantastic