all right i'd like to call to order
uh
this month's citizen review board
meeting for
bexley
um
should we start the meeting i think i
need a second
second awesome and we'll kick off
today's meeting we've got one item on
the agenda
but glenn
um had led us our discussion last month
on um some items when we think about i
guess the
how we're structuring some of the core
elements of the citizen review board and
so we have on today's agenda kind of
walking through some of those things
glenn and also mary younger is with us
she's our completely awesome
best practices so two things things that
you can share yeah and i'd like to have
you share also sure
oh yeah okay we should i think introduce
ourselves
for the record yeah
who's here
yeah absolutely okay
nathan's
is it
i mean
no you have a background
oh my background yeah um i've been a
bexley resident since 1984.
um i have worked
primarily with the city police
department since 1994. 1994
with a citizens advisory committee which
helped construct the new police station
and that have been involved with
these activities
most recently as president of the
citizens police academy with that you're
um involved in there as well
i'm becky guzman
mary hired me as a law slur
she knows my background yeah
okay that's it
mary and i know each other
since 1978
and uh
pretty much uh contract work now
after spending 30 years nationwide and
doing consumer affairs and legal
planning's legal and i've been an
attorney for 40 some years
so now it's giving back to the community
as much as we can and i think we all try
to do that and also on the back to the
historical society so
we try to make a lot of connectivity i
think with our residents in a lot of
forms and fashions
my name is tiffany hunt i have been in
vex sleep for 10 years since 2011. um
and i work at nationwide so i've been
there 10 years since i moved to columbus
to work for nationwide and i run their
business transformation office which is
operational excellence time work
that's it happy to be here
good to meet all of you
okay
so with that um
no why don't we start with you black and
then i think that can help lead us into
kind of a broader discussion in terms of
i guess form and function with respect
to crbs that mary can you know help to
guide or inform
well as we discussed the last meeting
we developed a bit of a purpose and a
mission statement so we've tied some of
the governance together
and we reviewed the six elements of
corporate governance that we were
looking at i think there was general
agreement that we proceed on those and
now it's really a point of bringing some
of these things together
having spent years in governance i guess
my primary focus is don't try to
reinvent something that has a model or
some roles out there that we can
garner from so i think learning from
columbus and other
municipalities around the country
looking at some of their governance
guidelines and documents and that's kind
of what we're starting to do the mayor
has shared with me
some of the rules and regulations we
have from some of the other
community organizations and i think we
want to be cognizant as much as we can
of what some of these other
organizations are looking at their
arbitration agreements and some of the
others although i don't really think
we'll run afoul of most of those our
role is fairly well limited to being an
advisory group to the mayor and i think
that role is going to be
supplemented as we we learn and look so
i don't really have a lot of governance
pieces to focus on today
i think it's a matter of gathering some
of these pieces and i guess i would
encourage each of us
to start looking at other municipalities
minneapolis philadelphia
some of the smaller communities some
have fairly refined
citizen review groups
even though they might be small
communities
look at those and let's take the best of
the best and find out what we can find
and maybe uh rather than trying to
rebuild and as i look starting to write
some of these things down it's a little
bit more
involved than engaged than i thought it
might be so
i guess i would encourage each of us to
just if we can find one model that we
think might be appropriate we could look
at rather than overwhelming ourselves
with too many and i'll spend some time
looking at the
these are some of the other groups that
are out there some of those rules and
try to
pull some segments of some of those and
maybe give a report the next time
i don't really have any anything other
than what we did with a mission
statement and those six elements
to talk about today unless
you want to delve into some of those i
guess
my biggest concern i don't want to
foreshadow
what the group would like to do so
perhaps now is the time of gathering
some of these pieces and elements
together we can then look at them and
tear them apart and maybe nailed some we
think would be appropriate for that
good
and so maybe that's the perfect
transition for us to see how things are
in columbus okay um
i'm
i'd like to make this a dialogue so that
i can learn from you and you can
you know hopefully get a little from me
and i've just got a couple of um just a
couple of things to let you know and i
don't want to
so that um you to give you an idea of
how we got there this is we're new
all of us are new but civilian review
boards have been around for a long time
and so there's a lot online
for example while you were talking um
the working group that i'm going to talk
about if you go on youtube
you're going to see you can
look at all the meetings
with the columbus working group
and
it's a lot to listen to but
they talk about all the different uh
severe review boards that they
look at
and one uh
uh one member of the civilian review
board from detroit actually speaks there
so you can get
information it's all on youtube okay so
just briefly uh this all started january
20th with the mayor appointing what was
called the columbus community safety
advisory commission just citizens janet
jackson was on there she's been on this
throughout throughout and that
commission was to review
uh how how could with all the police all
the things that were going on how can we
um
make for a better police department just
review police behaviors and one of the
things that came out of this was
a civilian review board
so then from there came next came the
working group that started 11-3 of 2012
well on 11 uh three of 2020 the voters
by 75 said we want a civilian review
board and then the working group for the
civilian review board started
and that and that's what um i was
telling you about there's a lot
there's a lot that to listen to but
there's a lot of good material on there
because
they
because they had to figure out how to
put our civilian review board together
there's a lot of research there
and one of the firms of course i can't
remember the name of the firm they use
but uh they did a lot of research
okay all right
what's the difference between the
citizen review board and the working
group the working group was the group
that that
studied how we the the citizen of youth
board would function how many members
would there be on the board
um how many times would we meet what
would the structure what would that
board look like
how do we
some of them some of the people on that
group wanted it i wanted the board to be
elected
uh if i make a face because
because that would be more of the same
but thank god that uh i mean um that
group was so diverse and and intelligent
really fred benton was on that group too
and um
that they really
there were a lot of ideas it's a lot of
exchanges and then they came up with
this
you know so that's what the working
group it was a work
to put our board together and they did a
nice job and our members of the working
group on the citizens review board today
only two
kyle strickland and janet jackson okay
are the two that are that are on there
whereas with our group we've been um
created originally by executive
and then that has been uh expanded by
legislation
and so we have
um
legislative uh boarding and description
of our
kids
and so as
one of the distinctions is that our
responsibilities go beyond just police
right to
all
excellent city employees right that's
what the mayor was saying and ours are
strictly limited to police
yeah and i think you guys know this but
in case you don't i i mentioned that
marriage are complete
complaint liaison for vaccine if you
guys recall that that program is
that if we have
any citizen who's had once to follow
complaint
and
doesn't feel comfortable for that form
or is worried about the process she's a
resource for vaccines
right right
it is it is i live in bexley
my i don't but i feel like i do because
i was just there at the all the
playgrounds this morning oh my son lives
on remington okay gotcha and so uh and
he's he's getting ready to have twins
so but i was babysitting for the other
[Laughter]
okay so then um
oh and then so uh we were appointed on
in april of 2021
my dates here um so the mayor appointed
nine of us
and then um
city council
uh
and when they they were to approve us
they also they got two they elected not
elected excuse me they appointed two
more members
so we have 11 members now
and um it's i have to say that this
group is really i've already told the
mayor but they're just fantastic they're
they're there to uh to do
to
we're there to really
make this work
because then the young man that was on
the detroit board that you might see if
you listen to it he was saying that they
had that of their complaints
none of they didn't get anything done
it's
they just kept stacking up and going on
and so the police officers and the
citizens they
they didn't have their grievances aired
and met so because of the backlog
they're too many too many the backlog so
uh and i'm very cognizant of that
because backlog doesn't work there has
to be
so
and so we we we want to make sure that
we set up something being the first
board
so that this works
because i mean the citizens wanted it
and
we um we've had problems that's why it's
here
and and we and it's very important
because i think
law enforcement is is
is one of the most important aspects of
our society and it has to work
okay it has to work for the officer and
it has to work for everyone else okay so
i've i've gotten rid of that stuff now i
think the mayor wanted me to talk about
training
11 members
oh yeah the meeting we meet three hours
every tuesday uh the first tuesday of
the month
and then now um this is just the
beginning because
we are we haven't gotten any cases yet
we are in the process now and this is
um of hiring an inspector general
the inspector general is part
we're like one
one group the inspector general and the
civilian review board will work together
and they are independent
they are they're going to be
the inspector general will be
hired
he or she they will be paid
uh well
uh they're hired they're being hired by
the same uh firm that hired
the uh chief and the safety director
and so all of us met uh through zoom for
a half hour with
the individual that's
the firm that's going to be um
hiring him her i'm just going to say him
and then we'll go from there and and um
they they will have a staff of
investigators and an administrative
staff
and they're going to be doing the
investigation of all the complaints
and they're going to be so this is
already november almost so they're going
to be off the ground the goal is to have
them off the ground in january
so that we can because all that we're
going to
we can already see all the
the investigations we're going to be
having
and we need to get those started so
so that's so the inspector general
of all the different boards some have an
inspector general
and some do not
but but if you don't have an arm that
can do the investigation for
for like the city of columbus
uh
you've got to have an independent arm to
do the investigation they're going to
work they're going to work with internal
affairs
we can go to internal affairs
and
take a look at what they're doing so
this is going to be
this is going to work because
because we are going to make it work
that's just how we all feel okay
um
the what kind of background does the
inspector general have set someone
coming from a police and and
none that not necessarily but that was
our input we were supposed to say we um
our input was what
what do you think are going to be
his his biggest issues when he gets here
when he's looking to move to columbus or
whatever
and what type of backgrounds
he's going to
doesn't necessarily have to be an
attorney
but has to know the criminal law
in and out
yeah i might stop in a minute can you
hear me
but i think the biggest thing with the
civilian review board and the inspector
general is and what we have to do
is gain the trust of the officers and
the community
because
i mean
the community wants us because they
they voted for it
the officers
the good ones wanted want it also
because they don't want
officers that aren't doing their job
so
you know
and so
this individual has to gain the trust of
he or she has to get out there and be
known to the community as does the
civilian review board and that's all in
the process mary if i could um
so
when you when the board and the
inspector general work with internal
affairs yeah maybe you could walk us
through what the
what the process is if a citizen has an
encounter that is not satisfactory with
uh with an officer
what happens okay
uh that's um a work in process right now
because we're putting it together but my
the way that it'll happen is our
complaints can come from from citizens
and it can come from
the office it can come from anyone
as a as of right now
okay
um so if if a complaint goes to
um internal affairs
uh
they can take care of it
if it's some minor thing they can take
care of it
or if it's an internal if it's an issue
if it's an internal police matter that
might also come to us
now
if the inspector general
uh
and they're going to when when they're
hired they're going to have to have some
kind that's what they're going to have
to work on
because
we can't allow
this is what we do in that three-hour
meeting is you should you know is hash
all this out
we can't allow them to just make their
to do their internal investigation with
no oversight from the inspector general
or anyone we want to know what's going
on there
so their meetings are going to be open
to us
and
and then we
we together will decide which ones will
come to the inspector general and the
board
so somehow that has to be worked out
okay
that's pretty fertile ground to yeah so
you can decide to escalate something we
can decide yeah
yeah
now uh we don't have you know you've you
kept you kept we
everyone kept hearing about this thing
that we don't have subpoena power
but
statutorily we don't have subpoena power
but they have to answer our questions
and if they don't cooperate with the
investigation they could go they could
be disciplined they could be fired but
they're going to cooperate with our with
it
now i don't
that's a parallel to to the way things
are here isn't it
[Music]
internal if it is a police
issue
they are required to respond to any
internal investigation and are required
with you as the ultimate authority to
respond to any investigation
on your behalf
so first there's an internal response
and then the the complainant of the
opportunity if they're not satisfied
with that to
kill it which is when the crv gets
private
as a review
yeah
issues
yeah so
we have to work it out in response to
you we're still
yeah when you say things are stacking up
oh you said you've got visibility oh oh
yeah
yeah that's you said you've got
visibility to complaints that you need
to get started
we need to start working yeah so you do
have complaints no no we don't have
anything yet we haven't no or you have
no investigations we have no
investigations but we need to get going
because they voted in november and it's
i guess those will be referred by the
inspector general right so that
that's sort of a necessary component yes
yes yes okay well so i thought that you
have access to all investigations and
you can assign or you can engage the crb
if you see fit
it doesn't have to come through the
inspector general so does it have to
come through the inspector general
is art is works for the crb yes all
right so
they
that's what i can't tell you yet is
exactly where they will come from i mean
for example if there's a stop
all right there's an ovi stop and that
citizen wants to make a complaint
that citizen may go to internal affairs
and then we have to have some sort of a
vehicle to review to get that complaint
if we need it because i'm sure
it depends on what kind of a complaint
it is
that part
we haven't figured out yet but you know
that you'll have access to all yes not
just those that are escalated to you
yeah yes yes
yeah because that would
uh that wouldn't be right somehow i and
i don't know how it's going going to
come to us yet and maybe down the road
we can meet again i'll let you know how
how it does come to us look can i ask a
question just
uh from a compare and contrast i guess
perspective if you will for the for our
system something has to be appealed for
it to come to us
how do we test i guess the efficacy of
that appeal process like you know do
things get appealed
so
since this was set up we have not had it
have you ever had an appeal
um
we didn't really have a formal appeal
process
i'm trying to think i'm trying to
remember i don't recall
you know when somebody put i think
so i would say i think the answer is no
okay and i think that somebody
who's critiquing the process would say
well the reason the answer is is because
first off we had very few formal
projects we had
super few
points until
until we put the form online we changed
the things to kind of make it easier for
people
we weren't having
this bringing their
um
so i'm not sure it's that fair to say
that we wouldn't have had an appeal and
then the thing that
i'm finalizing is an actual appeal form
to give to somebody if they've got that
formal response
so they're aware that they can even
appeal well it's on our website so when
they went to get the form yes they
started ready but okay
it still isn't
maybe straightforward but that's almost
also the reason like if you wanted to
appeal
reach out to completely
there's
plenty of opportunities for people to
appeal down
but we're just trying to make it
that much more yeah but they also have
the opportunity of engaging the liaison
right from the beginning yeah absolutely
any time okay
phone numbers on the website oh really
it is that's generous of you
when we have the advantage we don't
really have a prioritization issue i
think
some groups yeah yeah yeah i mean i can
see columbus having some prioritization
issues and concerns as well
i think ours ours will be prioritized
for us in a large degree so yeah it'll
make it a little bit easier for our
process
this is why i feel like that can be
daunting
to really have the full all of the
complaints kind of under your purview
that's we're going to be working yeah
that's why i said we need to get started
okay
not to say that the
the difference that it makes would be
more poignant to
someone complaining i mean someone in
bexley who has oh yeah oh yeah
you bet the same yeah yeah and then
there could be they could be columbus
citizens coming through i mean you know
somebody lives yeah so you considered
about time
we haven't gotten there yet but you know
as you guys are talking i'm taking notes
of things to bring up uh yeah that's
going to be one of ours of our issues
because of that of the one fella from
detroit who spoke and and indicated that
the backlog was so bad that justice that
no one was getting served
uh you know is that because there was no
time limit
there was no time limit no
and and i i think you you know we're
going to do that yeah yeah but we we
have some evidentiary issues
i think for 30 or 90 days by policy
before
and is that is that something that
you're aware of in columbus and that
won't bear body camera videos
i don't know that yeah i know they have
your attention policy i don't i should
know that from well
you know that's a good question
yeah it's another question
okay uh the mayor wanted me to talk
about training and we're
we're really moving on i want you to
talk about whatever you want oh oh yeah
but but training this is really
interesting
but training is
yeah the the body cams i'm gonna
you know i'm sure i've been told that
retention yeah thanks
um
so uh we started we we've had we at our
third meeting we had officers that came
from the police academy and we started
with police
tactics the classroom um portion of it
will be um at the meeting the three-hour
meeting and it'll be a part of it
and of course we hardly got through
anything that poor officer
there were three of them uh but there
were so many questions and then and then
of course they um
they were very happy though because we
were very engaged
um and then they did a um
they did some um
situational training
and you really learn a lot
uh with that so the tactics are use of
force
suspect and officer safety the canine
units
mental individuals with mental health
body cams or protocols first hazing and
firearm use how to restrain so these are
the things that we're going to some of
the things that we're going to
to use because i you probably already
know this but columbus now sends out
um i we had to do a ride along one rider
long i've done one so far an eight hour
shift
and they and they send out a um
whenever there's a mental health call
they'll send out a cruiser which is kind
of nice with a a net care person so
there'll be an officer and a net care
person that goes there and then there'll
be another cruiser behind if they have
one
so there's a
so there's a a social worker there
so you're going through the bexley
citizens police academy and i'm learning
a lot
you're uncovering the same issues um
yeah i'm learning right right
how's that going it's great
it's great you know there were a couple
people signed up brian drury was signed
up and then somebody else was signed up
from city council but they they're not
in the class but
it's really fun the officers are great
and
yeah
uh i'm well becky got me to
think about it
we we've influenced each other a lot
and i think we've talked about that too
yeah yeah you did an eight-hour
ride-along about four hour with bexley
no but columbus with columbus i did an
eight hour
that is eight hours yeah he might have
let me go at 10 30.
but but it was uh and it was uh was it
during the day or at night no no i did i
did in my precinct and i did uh three to
eight three to 11 but i think
at 10 30 he said well you can you know
i'm going back to the station he said
i'm finished
now how did they do you stay in the car
the whole time
oh we were
i was in the car but then we did stop
for to pick up some lunch and then went
back to the substation to eat it okay
so you got out of the car to eat to eat
yeah but then we kept getting out of the
car for the calls you got out of the car
for the call yeah and then how are you
safe well because oh yeah yeah because
he um he knew i was a public defender
and so some of the people that we
stopped
but one
i hate to talk am i talking too much you
know
let me answer your questions but but uh
i i you know been a public defender all
those years and some of the things that
i saw just like like not maybe 10 15
minutes from my house i live in german
village
there's a homeless camp
that that he took me back to sea
and um
it was like a
like like a
it was just all set up with tents and it
went on and on and the cruiser just went
back there and
they were all set up and um it just uh
made you feel like
wow you know when you're in your home
watching tv
and and all these people out here
you may not even be aware that's
interesting i was not aware i did uh i
had to do a similar onboard i'm going to
board for franklin county children's
services and i had to do a ride along
with the social worker for the day yeah
and to your point i'm right here in
bexley but just you know some of the
stops we made were stone throw
and we saw some really horrific things
right and it's in the backyard you know
what i'm saying and so i agree i thought
to your point you're sitting in your
home you're you know yeah i guess
blissfully ignorant right to some of the
things that are really within uh you
know
i spent a year every friday night for a
year
riding
along in a metropolitan police
department
officer in washington dc this was a long
time ago and our project was to look at
the use of women in police control
and at the time
women were not considered
police eligible for police patrol
officers they were sort of detailed to
juvenile division domestic things and um
we were able to produce a report that
was one of the
launching reasons for the use of women
and
so
but the point is that when you spend
that time
especially if you're in columbus in an
urban environment
you're
you run from one call to the next and
you're dealing with situations that
wouldn't necessarily be the same in
vexing there might be more time than
it's um you know that runs between the
calls and the intensity that you have
but especially if you're on a weekend
you're you're out one
intensive situation
[Music]
and here's one of the other things that
i came up with because i did a ride
along
but here in bexley so i was out with um
officer kim
on our first ride along and it was a
friday night and saved the whole ship
he went into um the speedway
at
college avenue and livingston
and um got a cup of coffee and paid for
it
the whole year that i rode along in
washington
the officers never paid for anything a
lot of municipality yeah yeah it was
expected
so that's where i knew we had an
exceptional yeah
higher standards yeah i i like the idea
the officer i was with um with columbus
paid also
but
what he did say was i only eat at
certain places because right now i'm
afraid to go to other places because um
they might spit my food he actually said
that yeah
so
all right so then uh as far as the
training the the ride-alongs and and let
me tell you um the
some of the people are super intelligent
on this thing on this board
but thank god that this training is
vital there's no way you could go into
these cases that are going to be coming
up and not have some sort of
this training
all right
last two fridays ago i did out of the
academy i did the situational training
which is what which is the way they
train the officers and what they do is
they
they set up situations
a few a couple of you at a time go out
there
and we did four they'll set up a
situation they'll say okay you're going
to go in here this is a we just got a
call for a disturbance it's a mental
health facility and uh so go on and you
you get a taser sometimes you go in with
a with a firearm that's not loaded but
you know
uh and and
and just
go and do what you need to do so you
went in i went in and then there was uh
somebody answered the door she was
screaming and she was saying there's a
man uh he's in there he's got a he's got
a knife he's cutting himself you know
and uh so he there was a guy on the
toilet and he had a knife and he was
ready to cut himself
you know and everybody's screaming
because you know they're all
and so it just it puts you and they're
all officers that are role-playing but
it puts you just by doing this
situational training
there were two or three of them and
these were actual situations that have
come up these are going to be
and being put in that situation even
though it's role play it really makes
you think the adrenaline yeah i had
adrenaline going and it was real exactly
there's so many emotional people oh i
agree
i can't imagine myself going and running
off
i mean i mean for a split second but i'm
like for a split second i thought i'm
out of here buddy
i think
the last
three officers
yeah now this is only is this something
that this board would have access to or
you only have access to it because
you're in columbus city center
you know i i i just know that these
officers
you absolutely have access to our rival
oh okay i'm at the whole situation
well you can i mean the police
citizens police academy yes
includes
got it okay that's good i mean what i'd
like i like what you said in terms of
you know it brings an important
perspective right yeah that you would
bring into kind of the evaluation and
you know because in the absence of that
you're just kind of layman
you know layman view yeah and and then
what the what the sergeant would do is
it was he would say okay you went in
there what's your first what what is the
most important thing well to prevent
bodily harm
to you know yourself the other officers
any officers and then any any ever any
other person there so he had a knife to
himself so what's my first job when i go
in there it's too it's not to shoot him
i have a taser it's to keep him from
cutting himself because what i didn't
know is if you cut a main artery you
have 30 seconds in your bed
but how do you keep them from cutting
themselves well you have a taser in your
hand so taste yeah i thought i was going
to talk no you can't no you can't
what i did is i tasted him on the leg
and and the uh and the
the sergeant said you must be one heck
of a shot because he said you've got to
tase him in the body mass wait first of
all how do you know he doesn't have a
gun
well he's got a knife but how do you
know he doesn't have a gun too but but
you don't
right now he's cutting himself so you
see so you taste it yeah you've got both
hands from my lawn order
okay so let's
and then uh techniques and de-escalation
reduce conflict calm interactions and
then of course diversity inclusion and
cultural competency
competency
and um
and that's to begin with now this is
just a start
but what i learned last class is where
we're going or the last meeting
is we're going to have um committees
four as of right now
and all of us are going to be on a
committee because we can't do all this
work
um
three hours a week you know a month
so there's going to be an education
committee
and and they're going to supplement this
so that you're always learning
and you know because you can only be on
this
for three years you can
renew three more years and then you're
off for
you know
there has to be and i think that's a
good idea
let me ask you going back to where you
started what do you see your what do you
see your
mission or your purpose
as how have you all defined that
how will you know when you you're
successful
and that's a good question
i feel that
success is when
uh and this isn't going to happen
immediately and and
when the individual police officer
and
the individual and not now
justice is different for every everyone
but when that individual police officer
goes out there
and any citizen
that that's out there knows
that
that they can they can receive fair
treatment that there's some sort of a
body there
that
that they can get some sort of fair
treatment and justice
okay
an end result so that a citizen who
makes a complaint
doesn't feel like
that like they're just insignificant
don't matter no one's going to listen to
them or that a police officer thinks
yes
either above the law or that he isn't
going to get a fair shake just because
he's wearing a uniform got it so it's
got to be both of them have to feel good
about this now how do you measure that
um
well that's that's
i when you said that i thought about the
new chief
because i'm sure that she's feeling
probably
you know like how am i going to i i
think you do that by um
well here's one of the committees is
going to be engagement the community
engagement committee
and that's
that's one that i'd like to be on yeah
every everybody because this inspector
general and this community this board is
going to go out into the community and
we're going to let them know that we're
here
and we're going to get feedback from
them and then i'd like to also make sure
that the officers know
you know the go to
i don't know how we're going to work
with the fraternal order of police but
we also have somebody on there that's
that works with unions
on the board
and
we'll get feedback that's maybe maybe
that's a woman okay
i think
that i'm let's see
and the committees i've so far we have
four committees the community engagement
then there's one that's called rules and
regulations i'm not sure what that is
i'm not i'm not going to volunteer
[Laughter]
and then there's one for standards of
professionalism
[Laughter]
and and uh i just have a few more things
um
i had uh
and
one of our things that we're going to
have to be working on because other than
the complaints
or grievances we're going to have
our
function is also to
to deal with policy and procedures we
want to impact policy and procedure in
the police department
and um and we're going to have to work
somehow we're going to have to work with
the police contract with the fop because
that's going to be hindering a lot of
grievance filing because they put a
they're hampering how those grievances
are going to be
handled um
and and
for example i'm just going to and you
guys don't have this issue because i've
mentioned it to the mayor
but in the con in the police contract
they just changed it to
90 days a citizen in columbus has 90
days to file a grievance
so
if you you neil rosenberg brought this
to my attention
um
take that out
or i just put somebody's name in there
that nail wrote that um
um but anyway um
90 days from the time of the grievance
so if you have an individual who has
been charged with ovi
he or she has to go through a assist a
process
in court and the first thing that the
attorney is going to say is no you can't
file any grievances because the officer
has input as to
how what the outcome of the case is and
the attorney is going to be working on
getting that reduced from an ovi to
something else to a reckless or
and and uh so that person is going to
forgo
filing a grievance if there's a real
grievance
and um
that's usually where they come out of
yeah
so
that contract is is uh
pretty much
hurting right there absolutely
so that's
well that gets to what we've discussed
before right i've conveyed to them i'm
not for a limit time limit on filing a
complaint for that very reason because
we know that there are taxable reasons
why somebody would need to wait to file
a complaint now 90 days from the time
that the complaint
has been that the case has been closed
you know what i'm saying okay i agree i
think there should be some
because i think everybody could it could
benefit you to have some right if you
get so far gone that
witnesses can't be interviewed or the
pertinent information is no longer
available that can hurt
the person who's filing the claim or
also hurt the officer who needs that
you know the question is what's the
right balance right that within the
associated trade-offs right and and just
to go along with that so okay that
i what i'm trying to understand is why
would the ultimate disposition of the
case have to do with the
issue involved of the
process that was followed is that yeah
fair question i guess i think you know
you're more than the time if you have
let's say a body count
that looks at this and you have a
defined procedure that everyone is
trained
and you go from you know stopping
inquiring
doing a field sobriety test um looking
at the elements of those tests then the
decision to
arrest or charge
isn't that the template that you would
use rather than what happens in terms of
any plea bargain that would occur
later in the process
but i'm but let's say
go ahead no i was going to say
shouldn't that be my choice
whether i decide to file the complaint
to your point right after the incident
or maybe i just want to wait and see
right if the whole thing gets dismissed
and
i'm willing to forego the complaint
because i'd rather get the dismissal
right maybe i don't like the behavior
but i also know that i'm guilty i don't
know no no here's the problem uh and and
i don't know if it's going to answer
your question
it's it's that the prosecutor is going
to call that cop
and he he's going to call the police
officer he's going to say how you know
how was he should i should i give him a
break here he's got no other record
should i give him a break the the
officer is going to know that this guy
filed a complaint
so just normal human being okay
and so the attorney tells his client do
not file any complaints
there's no case that gets completed in
90 days not even a misdemeanor if it's
an ovi usually unless you've got polith
uh enough uh so
so that's the problem
so so just so i understand so that
the prosecutor is asking
officers yeah input to
instead of it's it's another level of
discretion so the officer has the
discretion at the time of the incident
not at the time of court here oh
oh yeah
in terms of the process that's followed
yes and then
he has another level of
discretion which may be even more
impactful yeah
at a later bit absolutely and and that's
not bad that the officer has discretion
it's just that uh it depends on the
officer it depends on the whole
situation some offs
they're you know great officers i mean
you know
i mean
there was one officer i mean my
husband's friend
knew uh there was one columbus officer
who had properties and he used to give
let let the homeless people stay on his
properties so you've got that type of
officer and then you've got
other officers who you know you have all
types but that's the problem right so
the other side of that is
if i wind up getting prosecuted then i'm
going to want to file a complaint and
try to neutralize that prosecution no
no that does not work like that at all
we can both tell you that
no no and uh why is great
go ahead i mean i would look at the
civil side i think
my experience i spent 11 years in
international consumer affairs and i can
tell you all the major companies
never had time constraints i mean other
than
civic and civil
processing time you know you had a
two-year statute limitation or whatever
i mean those would apply
in terms of bringing actions or whatever
but in terms of filing complaints i
don't ever recall putting a constraint
on anyone to bring a complaint and i
handled
all the complaints for nationwide it
went to donald mcpherson or john fisher
and
i can tell you we never
looked at
how old is it as a complaint now as
statutory limitations certainly we'd say
i'm sorry the statute's fun on that you
really don't have any uh
civil action to bring but we would still
look at personnel or individuals if we
had someone who was discriminating or
someone who's abusing customers or
taking advantage
those would be timeless so
i don't really think that we don't have
any
that i recall
in the fop contract yeah well yeah i
mean other than yeah yeah
but
yeah it's a contractual matter perhaps
rather than but from a practical matter
i don't see that time issues really
become
people run the course on most of these
things right
but you see how that's a way to keep
people from flying yes
okay so
our contract does not happen
to
what what it does say is that
that we will consider the lapse of time
between the date of an election
for one minute factored evaluating their
complaint
i don't love that language but i think
what language i think what what is true
is that if there were a complaint filed
like
years and years and years later
and there's no evidence like there's no
there's no way to really review the
complaint
then
our response will
accordingly
take that into account right and then i
would think that
the crb in reviewing it would say you
know there's there's not really anything
to adjudicate
certainly that's what you have and maybe
there would be a rare instance where
there is a good record
but if there's no record then there's
nothing you can do you can respond to
the complaint
still
but your response is going to be textual
um that's how it should be
yeah and real quickly columbus's
retention for cameras
right there
is less tacked for
thank you
we are at times
but this has been so fantastic i've
loved this good good i'm blessed it's
been so informative
well thank you i enjoyed it spent some
time effort putting some of this
together yes
how many more
weeks later
uh only let's see six about four four
five is that i think it's like a couple
days before
thanksgiving
yeah yeah yeah yeah
are you signed up to do the drinking
goggles
she did it already she was drunk
[Laughter]
she is too busy oh no i'll be drunk for
that
how many drinks they have you drink i
had almost an entire bottle of moscato
oh becky i would have been dead i know
that is not worth it
but the next day
right
that was this this go right already
but i will say that it was it's very
helpful because this time um
i had mentioned to the sergeant why
don't you it would be really helpful if
you had people doing the fields when
they're sober before we start drinking
yeah so they did and
i loved that
it was good one woman i was with another
couple and they can handle their alcohol
oh yeah they can the man didn't even
look drunk
but yeah they got to see that she did
better on her fields so the woman she
did better on her fields drunk she did
better she could hardly do it sober
but drawn what does that mean yeah
that's a good one that was
if i could have gotten on my soapbox
which i'm supposed to help again for
another for another class oh good why
fields are totally irrelevant oh god
they are not helpful in anything okay
but
that's
you know as a defensive drink but he the
because i'm drunk i have trouble
articulating it first thing that goes is
my ability to talk
you were laughing a lot
and then on saturday we're volunteering
with the mayors
can we just raise a couple of issues
just before we kind of draw the media to
the close one of the things that i had
exchanged emails with elizabeth was
around the cadence of the meetings i
thought and again it could be my memory
as i'm getting older is that we had
talked about doing these every other
month at some point
didn't we
yes and so that's what i thought and so
do we want
so keeping with that natural cadence
that would have our next meeting in
december and so i want to make sure that
there's no objections to that any
objections to that okay good and then
maybe in the december meeting we can
talk about what the plan is for 2022 if
we go to more of a quarterly cadence uh
or you know whatever is necessary based
on uh i guess demand does that work okay
good if i could ask one thing though for
the december meeting if each of us could
look around sure uh the internet and
find an example
and i i would not do more than one just
look at all of them and say this one who
knows an example of a crb same example
example of the crb that we think would
work for bexley
a good model for i've also looked at
this national association for civilian
oversight of law enforcement yeah
which is a good resource in terms of
some of the procedures for
the bylaws
perfect i think that would advance our
effort and i think once we get that in
place
we can be a resource and be available i
think the value we have in bexley is we
have resource people that are going to
process the complaints and talk to
people walking through the process we
won't
get them until it
gets through that process okay that
sounds good so we'll include that in the
meeting minutes that will come back in
december and we'll each come back with
at least one example we're going to say
something in these i have updated that
meeting
calendar okay
december 21st
okay do you want to
approve
yes
um
i would like to raise a motion to
approve last meetings minutes
second
awesome
minutes of proof
uh like to raise a motion to close out
our
october meeting
[Music]
[Laughter]
all right thank you