foreign
[Music]
the agenda you have on here
in other words is the capacity issue is
that going to be the last thing we're
doing
the first thing excellent thank you
okay
[Music]
I will uh meeting minutes from let's see
the first one which would be the
September 9th of 22 RV meeting minutes
is there a board member that can approve
those
I think
seconded
all in favor
say hi hi
all opposed
asked okay and then the next one we will
approve the uh
October 13th
of 22 uh meeting minutes from that
meeting is there a board member that
will
make some motion so moved seconded
all members favor say aye aye aye all
opposed
past
um
while we're on the minutes if I could
just um request that all board members
when you vote
um just say your last name after the
person that does the minutes is not
physically here so it would help
so when we make the most when you make a
motion sorry when you make a motion okay
yes
okay sounds good thank you
okay next thing then is to go to uh
uh are we going to old no we're doing
consent agenda items next right okay so
we have uh four items on the consent
agenda four five five items on the
consent agenda so these are all
applicants that um we have reviewed all
the information that they gave to us and
if we had any comments they were given
back the applicant made those changes
and so we're gonna do one vote to
approve these five
applications first num first one is
application number ARB 22-57 the address
is 115 South Columbia the applicant is
Pete Foster the owner is Patricia
Jennifer kobalis
the second one is application number ARB
22-60 the address is 2731 31 Sherwood
the applicant is Amy lauerhouse the
owner is Elizabeth and Brian Murray
Murphy
application number ARB 22-61 the address
is 216 North Roosevelt the applicant is
Amy lauerhouse the owner is Elita Smith
and Greg Conan
next one is application number bzap
22-44 the address is 2364 Brentwood the
applicant is Amy lowerhouse the owner is
Joffrey and Tiffany Winchell
the last one is application ARB 22-62
the address is 202 or North Stanwood the
applicant is Pete Foster and the owner
is John rule
is there a board member that will make a
motion to approve
oh is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about any of those
applications those addresses
okay seeing none is there a a board
member that will make a motion please so
moved Miss croskey
second Mr Steele
would like me to call the role Miss
croskey yes
Mr Steele yes Mr Scott yes
I'm Tony yes
okay so those applications are approved
so we will now go to Old business
and we will start with application bzap
20-52 the applicant is the Community
Builders the owner is 420 North Cassidy
Ave LLC the location is 420 North
Cassidy Avenue the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval for a
three-story structure with commercial on
the first floor and residential on the
second and third floors this application
was remanded to ARB final
design approval as a condition of the
bzap approval
Karen will give some yes background so
this application was before us
two months ago well January 2021 and
then again in July
August I can't remember which one this
application is before us for
architecture review only
um which I just want to make a a comment
at the front end it has it's irrelevant
to who the occupant is going to be and
the applicant will speak to that there
is no final decision yet who's going to
be occupying the space
um this is purely for our for
architecture review
um so having said that staff has met
with the applicant
um a few times quite a few times we've
worked really a lot hard together to
come up with the solution and to refine
the design and I think we're at a really
good point where um the applicant has
heard what the board and what the public
has had to say and oh sorry I hope that
I just said it was red thank you sorry
um the applicant has heard what the
board and um the public had to say in
terms of design there has been a real
effort to simplify the facade to bring
the the um the roof height to a uniform
pretty much uniform level and to
simplify the design we'll go through it
um uh personally there's also been an
attempt to really refine the materials
and
um use colors that are warmer and more
residential in character I think um
they're much better Solutions there
um is the use of brick now I'm just
scrolling hold on just a second
by way of by way of History this is the
old I'm not going to keep this up there
very very long but this is the last
presentation and this is the new so you
can see there's a really big difference
there's a richer
um tone the roof line is very simple
um it's UNIF uniform except for some
um use reasons
and the brick has been pretty much
aligned from floor to floor
um and evened out
um we asked the applicant last time to
really simplify the materials personally
I as from staff perspective I think they
could even still be more simplified but
I do think it's really on the a good
direction
the one kind of critique that I have
that I would like it to the for the
board to think about and and for any
public who hasn't gone on the website
these um perspectives were submitted and
I think they do a really good job of
showing how it fits in to the
neighborhood
scroll through those a little bit you
can see that's the yoga studio on the
right down Cassidy
one critique that I have as staff but I
think that we could
um the board I would ask the board to
perhaps approve certain aspects of this
like the massing and the roof height
some material and color choices and when
there is an occupant on the first floor
no matter who it is I think it would be
um prudent for the applicant to come
back with refined details uh primarily
one of the things the applicant did in
the presentation I let me scroll back is
give some really good examples of
existing
um three-story buildings in Bexley
that's in here isn't it yeah keep going
yeah there you go
some kind of a con you know some very
typical
um storefront streetscape
um public buildings and you'll see that
a lot of them are much simpler material
but there's also a real um pedestrian
scale on the first floor so that would
be my um staff recommendation is that
when when the applicant when when a um
uh whoever decides who's going to go in
there that might influence also what
happens on the first floor but
regardless of who goes in there there
needs to be some detail done to make it
more pedestrian friendly on the first
first um level I'm going to go ahead and
hand it over to the applicant to fill in
more rather than me talk
um this is a situation where staff is
very familiar with the design and worked
hard with them please state your name
Nicole Knight
the assembly swear to affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes ma'am thank you
so Nicole Knight I'm with the Community
Builders we're located at 736 Oak Street
in Columbus
43205. I'm joined this evening with my
architect come and drive this Wells from
RDL Architects
um Chagrin right
Chagrin Falls
Shaker Heights
in uh up in the Cleveland area so thanks
for having us it's wonderful to be back
and um we really are hopeful that what
we are bringing to you tonight is
reflective of the comments that we've
received from um both from this board as
well as from staff and from other public
members over the last couple months
um as Karen has mentioned you know we
really wanted to take into consideration
the comments that we're given around
Humble architecture and looking at what
not only is in Bexley but also what's
around Bexley thinking about the
materiality and thinking about an
elevation that is reflective of what's
been shown in the land use plans and in
the Main Street plans but also thinks
about what's going on on the Cassidy
Corridor and so as has been mentioned
you know we've really taken into
consideration making sure that the even
just the roofline is a singular roofline
instead of the um variations that we had
before that the materiality is it's a
brick and it is a solid surface there's
no more of the stone the stone there's
uh it's more of a cleaner line
um I will share just because I know that
it's been a question that's been
presented before is would we be able to
modify the elevation more to remove some
of those areas that extrude from the
building and part of what is driving the
um bump outs are because we have minimum
unit sizes that we must maintain through
the funding source that is helping us
build the apartment buildings and
unfortunately we cannot make the units
any smaller we are at those minimum
sizes really of what they require as
well as what we feel like is appropriate
for somebody to have a good quality of
life and I do want to speak to the
ground floor so we know that half of the
ground floor or even more of that is
going to be for our operational use so
the Community Builders we are a
developer we are an owner or property
manager and our property management team
is going to be on the ground floor of
this and so we are going to be
activating the Cassidy Avenue Corridor
with our management office with a
fitness center and with a community room
that's going to hopefully bring some
vibrancy while they're in use and kind
of give that that space a purpose and
also an engagement along the property we
do not have a final end user for the
other 2 500 square feet we've spoken
about what those uses can be in the past
but we cannot speak to who that user is
because there are no agreements executed
there have been no formal conversations
about what that could look like and so I
appreciate the recommendation of
continuing to work with staff and with
Partners on making sure that that corner
on Columbus and Cassidy that we make
sure that while we're designing it we
think about who that end user is and
that we get it right
um I'm going to open it up because I
think Karen did a great job of covering
where we are at right now and would like
to
get your feedback
um and then Kevin and I are here to
answer any questions and provide any
additional information
okay our
um order of operations means we go to
the community next so is there anyone in
the community that wants to speak about
this could you raise your hand so I
understand how many people are here to
talk about this application
okay
if you want to ask questions you can do
that but you'll have to come up to the
podium and be sworn in and so um so I'm
just seeing two people that's all that
wanna
do you want to do a time frame timing
please raise your right hand state your
name Howard Murray please raise your
right hand oh you saw me swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening thank you so Howard I'm going to
ask you to be a really brief under like
a couple minutes because
I'm not done talking yet we have a lot
of things on the agenda tonight so um
we're going to ask everyone that's here
to speak about any application tonight
to keep it to three minutes or under
okay so
um so that we can get out of here before
use a timer tonight yeah and we'll have
it time too so well to me it's
unacceptable it doesn't fit in with the
community and
okay we're not we're not the west side
and that's what that is you know I mean
it's just it doesn't it's just this is
where the people come into Mexico
and they're going to look at that and go
what it doesn't mirror anything this in
Bexley now and if Arlington or some
other place of note was going to do this
project they would not
and consider them
so you know about you know and also the
parking and all that stuff that's going
on with it
but I I just I just find it
really just wrong totally wrong
so consider that it's up to you guys
thank you yeah please come forward and
be sworn in
please state your name Marilyn Levinson
you saw Mommy swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth oh yes thank you okay most I just
questions observations I'm not
particularly familiar
um yeah the design does concern me as
well I'd like to see it warmer
um and More in tune with the other
pieces my con first question is where
are how many cars are anticipated to be
associated with this building and where
do they anticipate being parked
so you're asking how many parking spots
are on the site on the site
I did not count those does anybody have
an accountant and that was approved as
part of the zoning review so this board
doesn't have jurisdiction over
the space calculating they're simply
reviewing the design review how many
apartments are anticipated
how many apartments
okay so 32 Cars Plus meetings on the
first floor or business activity
um are there actually 60 parking spaces
or attached 30 parking spaces attached
within the property because that space
is not on the street right there there
is not but there will be on street
parking around the building
there is as well as what there are not
30 spaces if you go tonight and drive
through where residents are on our home
you will not find 30 parking spaces
available
um the other question trash how is that
affecting the neighbors where are the
bins to be located and
um collected and supervise there's odors
children
um affected by that quality of life
so if there's no no parking
where's the trash going if there's not a
parking perimeter
um where are the children playing
who live in the building where do they
go
in the neighbor's yard running around
and supervised where the pets go where
they walked
I don't know that those are questions
for this board to answer I don't know
either but so this board is is really
speaking about the architecture oh just
what it looks like but these pieces are
not part of the architect of the
building not really a lot of what you're
asking is more of zoning it's zoning and
they have already retrieved all of this
and approved it and it considered it
back to us now to so many of your
concerns about the architecture or the
way I would like to see it warmer and
softer yeah we can address that here so
that's as simple as I can put it okay
thank you thank you
please state your name John Lewis 63 you
Claire you solemnly swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening I do uh I'm in agreement with
both people who've spoken I know this
sport is not here to discuss or what
about the parking but I do
as I look at the what's been put up
there I don't see the parking spaces
shown
there we go
okay but from I got that but on the
picture that's not shown so there are
one Seventeen Seventeen okay
just want to double check thank you
okay is there anyone else that would
like to speak about this
application
okay sing none um I'm gonna start with
the board then um Mr Steele would you be
willing to go first we'll put you on the
spot uh and Nicole if you want to come
back up because we'll probably be asking
you my friend Kevin with me yes yes
probably going to be able to speak to
things why don't I go ahead and swear
you into yeah they state your name yeah
you solemnly swear from the testimony
you're about to get this evening is the
truth
it's been weird because I've seen this
not sitting in the meetings but coming
across a few times it's been almost a
year now that we've this first came
about and I mean
granted you guys I know you guys have
2020 worked a lot with Karen and the
staff here on it it's
I'm I'm wondering do we take this
current design and try to
soften it like like they said and
improve it as it is at peace and adding
some I mean I'm hearing a few things
simplify but also make it more like
Bexley which isn't really simplified
it's detail
um
if it's taking the little pieces and
adding details to it or if it's I mean
I'm not sure so
so I think that the thing of this board
is not to design it but just to tell
them what we like or don't like about it
and um and they need to
bring forth something that we feel
comfortable with so and if you would
prefer not to go first I can start with
myself
I'm sorry
it's on
um
uh first I appreciate the uh
prospective renderings showing the
building in its context is extremely
helpful
um
I also appreciate the effort of
listening to some of the earlier
comments um
and kind of cleaning up maybe it might
be a good word of the kind of overall
building massing and allowing the uh the
kind of articulated
changes of the massing on the facade
happen not at the roof up line but more
along the facade
um I also like the the kind of elevating
The Brick
uh to the second floor at the portions
of the building I think that helps break
down the scale of the building instead
of a two over one all the way across it
it helps change the scale and and make
it a little bit more pedestrian friendly
um I think overall you know for me it's
there's some questions of placements of
things and then it's it's really going
to be more about the details
so uh the the first one is you see in
this view is the the blade sign that's
on the side street
uh to me that seems out of place if you
were going to do a blade sign you would
have it on actually Cassidy itself uh
because of the the main traffic is
coming through so I think that location
is not appropriate
um in this at this building and I don't
know where you're looking at the front I
don't know where you would even put it
but there's probably opportunity to find
another spot for that if that's
something that you need to pursue
uh my second comment would be related to
The Brick details I know you showed um
examples of similar or projects and
actually that you found that were
contextually relatable to this project
um looking at your window wraps and your
your storefront wraps of the brick
details really the only project I see
that's that was in that example and if
you want to scroll all the way up to the
front
um would really be the old freshy site
on Main Street
where it has a single brick wrap around
a lot of the storefront systems
following up just keep going there's a
lot of pages
right there yeah sorry something hard to
see unless you really zoom in but you
know there's a detail there I don't know
if that's specifically what you were
pulling from if or it just happens to be
coincidence that that project has a
similar wrap around your openings in the
brick details
um I I don't have a problem with the
detail I think I have a problem on your
design of the scale
um especially around
um the storefront and then also
mimicking the third floor uh window trim
in kind of matching it in the brick I
think that's not necessary I think
that's it kind of creates a uh
it's matching but then the brick detail
to me is getting forced to kind of match
more of a traditional window uh wood
trim detail I'm not sure that's the
right look because I think if you went
with a standard kind of header and still
brick still I think that would be a very
appropriate and fit the neighborhood so
I don't know again I'll let you like
comment as a designer and why the
intention was there uh and then I just
feel like the window wrap at the first
floor is way out of scale I think
there's it feels like that's on a much
larger taller building
um where you have almost a double double
wide
um
Soldier course
um of brick wrapping your trim I think
if you if you wanted to continue in that
detail I would recommend going through
just a single wide just making a little
bit more elegant because for your scale
of building it just seems over scaled to
me
another comment is in your dark panels
where you've kind of gained your second
and third floor Windows
um I would explore I'm not a big fan of
bringing that horizontal left side I'm
assuming it's a cedar style I think it's
Hardy siding or something but it's a lab
siding as your filler panel you have
other locations in the project if you
scroll to towards the left on this
elevation the other left the other left
there you gang two windows and you're
siding in your horizontal siding uh
elevation materials but then you've
analyzed that I would lean towards
penalizing more right even in the what
I'm assuming is the Hardy panel of your
box out darker boxes just allow that
those windows to punch and not have a
panel you know breaking up because you
have a lot of connective
wraps around two the two floors
I'm not sure that's necessary everywhere
and even on the um the alley elevation
which is the East Elevation I I think
there's an opportunity for where you
have if you scroll down just a little
bit
keep going sorry
I think it was the one up that one where
you have like on your the left four
window Banks right that the ganging of
the two second and third floor you've
changed the mass right where that Mouse
is maybe those are getting together but
the two the either side maybe those are
broken and they allow those this to be
punches and and let the siding kind of
blend between them why I say that is it
it starts to have some purpose and some
changes between the massing and the
articulation of those windows to me that
softens it up and it's not just this
repeated thing across the facade you
know I'm not saying that's a condition
or anything I think you just really
should look at that
um overall I think it's a it is a Great
Leap Forward I think you guys spend some
I know you last time you were here you
kind of
hadn't done a lot to that you wanted to
kind of regroup and hear our comments
and I think you've you've done a good
job of pushing this forward but I think
it's in the end the masking feels right
I think the the views of the 3D that
showed in context uh for scale and how
uh it does feel more pedestrian friendly
right it engages the community a little
bit better I also understand that you
know there's some comments here tonight
about you know
for this product in the market that
you're you're going after for rent on
this you know this can't look like
building that's sitting on Main Street
it's not it's you don't have the price
point to be able to afford those types
of details but I think in the continued
development of the details and and
really thinking through the scale of
each of those and those different
components along that facade uh you can
get it to a nice higher quality uh as
you develop this that uh though it may
not have very traditional Limestone all
these kind of ornamental details that we
might expect here in the city it still
will look like a quality product that
fits very well into the community so I
would continue to look at precedent
within the community because that'll
help you blend within those details but
also being able to do that in a modern
way
um
yeah I think that's it can I ask the
clarification question
um just around signage because I think
we're showing the blade sign as a
potential but we're not 100 certain how
we're going to do signage on the
building is that something that has to
be approved at the design stage now or
is that something that no can be done
once we know more about like branding
and things like that if if the signage
meets code it can be staff approved okay
so we'll work with you on that and if it
doesn't meet code then it would return
to the support okay I just for you yeah
spending money on a blade sign I like
blade signs yeah yeah and I fully
understand that location doesn't yeah it
will be a bit more pedestrian and it was
it really intended as a placeholder we
hate to go in and not think at all about
signage we can think of other places but
I understand not not asking for for
approval of that but it's there so I get
yeah I appreciate the card and I
appreciate the clarifier on it because
it's handled differently in every area
and so we just want to make sure that
we're mindful of that and I I know I
also because I'm looking at what I see
you know you have the awnings on the
retail space but that also changes you
know it's wrapping the same awning
that's on Cassidy which again this is a
commercial District where these own
commercial buildings you know as you
turn the corner and go down and changing
scales to the community uh those
one-story houses you know maybe the
awning design changes a little bit or
it's a little bit different window
treatment just to kind of give a little
bit of another we know we've come off
the main street things like that can
really help balance the the building
again those are awnings those are you
know they're gestures right I'm sure
you're still developing what that might
be but
um they would say we fully expect as
attendant is identifying becomes more
certain that that evolves and which
could include coming back to you for
changes in where openings are and how
they're sized and so forth but overall
I'm very pleased with the progress and
you guys have definitely put some effort
effort to you know bring us something
tonight to really be able to consider
and discuss thank you thank you
Miss kosky
yeah I agree uh I really appreciated the
fact that it came back and I I think the
colors are better I think they are
warmer
um I think your materials are better
starting to get there I agree with Mr
Scott that you know the brick detailing
needs refinement right
um uh so I would spend some time working
on that in terms of
um and and I'll just give like a little
example so if we're at what uh
elevation do I want I think it's the
west elevation
like the west elevation if you look at
um
it's okay
yeah
yeah so if you look at the
you've got two window you know I'm
talking about the upper Windows right
you have two windows on the right then
you have a gray part right there and
then if you go to the windows just to
the left like and then you look at the
window that's down below like your
picture framing around you know they're
not aligning uh between that's that uh
thinner you know less wide window down
at the bottom and the brick around it
and then what's up above so you know
just refine figure out what your
detailing needs to be uh because it just
you know it looks a little weird when
stuff misalign right um if you're going
to put things around the openings uh
think about uh what that's going to be
perhaps you're not doing the same sort
of picture frame around those upper
Windows as what you're doing down below
so I think you know if you can refine
your brick detailing like Mr Scott was
saying I appreciate the fact that you're
especially the 3D views are
way helpful uh to the project and
understanding the context I appreciate
that you're stepping down as you're
going down the you know Street that's
coming off of Cassidy So like um The
View looking South down
North Cassidy or the view looking along
Columbus Avenue
um I also think you're doing a really
nice job with the landscaping around it
helping it feel softer I feel like there
is a lot more concrete the last time so
I feel like that is helping especially
in these views where we're seeing you
know plantings and things like that I
think that should be kept and really
worked with especially when you do
finally get
um
a tenant in there and if there are you
know seats and Ani or uh
uh tables and things like that out there
um
I agree as well with Mr Scott concerning
like the windows where you have some of
it with the lap siding and then some of
it where it's like just um
like an act like a panel I'm not a huge
fan of the lap sighting in those uh
windows that he was pointing out
um I think like where you have it
currently is fine but I I think you
should just readdress like what you have
between yeah right there yeah so uh
and then
yeah I agree with the signage as well
um
pick a better spot and you can work with
staff on that so
one thing I'd like to ask and also hear
your comment on is obviously any modern
interpretation
um you know modern building
um if you could go to the West facade
East facade does the answer on a little
bit
um
the way you handle your career at the
top building is very clean there's very
little trim uh it's very kind of
it's stripped away all the ornamentation
and then obviously in a traditional
building sense we want to have some sort
of cap right now obviously if you're
pushing for a modern feel and you know
you could you can get away without
having that at all I think
when you look at this type of a building
in this type of context and how close it
is within the community and the
surrounding I would consider looking at
details of how to do that obviously with
within budget not getting crazy but
adding a little bit of weight to that
that top parapet
um it might be a piece just a single
piece of trim you know it's a different
color maybe or if it's a coconut however
you detail that coping sometimes maybe
it's built up a little bit more I I
wouldn't want to go too traditional but
you'll see most of the national
buildings will have some sort of debt
now you're seeing a lot of masonry there
which has masonry cabinet and you can
find coping profiles that have reveals
or things like that that can help
establish that yeah I'm not saying this
is like a big detailed five pound type
you know Dental type of code right but I
think there's there's a balance there
and I think you should I just would like
you to explore that I'm not going to
give it as a directive because I think
when when people see you know this
design and see them building that's
missing in this building so it becomes
kind of stripped of that detail and I
think there's a level of quality that
isn't deferred by that I'd like to
piggyback on top of that
um because one of the details that we
want to make sure we don't forget about
are the mechanical units that wind up on
the roof and we want to make sure that
these are not going to be visible from
the residential districts so whether
they're pulled to the center they work
with staff on that or make sure that
your parapet is an app that will screen
so that will be a concern so it's in the
final position or if there are
the pear pit can't go up you need to
look at how are you going to screen
those and what are those Heights I'm
assuming I mean that's a good point I'm
assuming your Mechanicals are up on the
roof right yeah certainly model them to
make sure that they're not yep
exactly yeah
yeah yep we don't want to see that
especially
yeah part of that communication of that
is Sidelines from across the street 200
feet away 500 feet away before the
angles are you might have enough height
in this area
there's a little bit of a parapet you
might be able to screen that but if
you're adding another screen wall up top
one that's you know it's not a cheap
thing to do but it totally changes
character of buildings your 3D views
will show that for you yeah so that's
pretty important it's a good comment
Mr Steele and you need to turn your
thing in yep
I think yeah you guys
said what I was thinking um
I think yeah you're trying to kind of
achieve that cornice look there at the
top of the brick and maybe adding a
little more detail to that piece there
to
pull the building down
without adding a bunch to the third
floor would would kind of achieve some
of that too and make it you know match
that human scale a little bit but
everything else
instead so
oh yeah
okay
um Ahmad man out
you show all of these uh images of
buildings in Bexley and I don't see how
you're building
addresses the images that you've shown
if you go back up to the images of
the brick buildings on Main Street and
can you explain to me how your building
has any of those
qualities to it
we are looking at those buildings we
don't intend to
replicate historic details uh we are
looking at
generally the level and scale of detail
the scale of Windows as they relate to
storefronts
um you know the idea of some simple
brick ornamentation in terms of
corbling and Alternate coursings that
starts to break down the scale and
pedestrian eyes around those openings
but no we're not
trying to replicate the the appearance
of a
1910 1920s era structure directly but
just looking at General scale and
proportion
so I mean I think that there's for me
there's some amazing things here that
you could use in your building if you
just took the building on Main Street
the one with the awnings and the and the
light colored brick and you said okay we
want that kind of a facade on the first
floor and we're gonna you know make that
brick and it's gonna feel like it was an
old building that's been there forever
and then you added the second and third
floor to it and maybe some stuff in the
back or whatever and but I I don't I
don't understand what the big idea is
behind the building that you've drawn
right now it doesn't look traditional it
doesn't look contemporary
um
I don't really see how it fits on the
street to be honest
um
if it's if it's supposed to be
contemporary to me it has to be really
well detailed because that's clean
contemporary buildings it's all in the
details that's where the beauty lies if
it's supposed to look traditional
it's not that's not a traditional
building to me
so I have to say you change the colors
and materials on it and straighten the
roof line but other than that I was
looking for a full-fledged new design
that would really kind of address
bexley's architecture
and so
I might be the odd man out but that's
where I feel I I can't get behind a
anything that I see here yet I don't I
don't understand what style that is
so
I can't even really I mean the windows
to me are goofy
um I don't understand the black boxes I
mean I I hear that they're you know to
make more square footage and
but I guess that's not really my problem
I I they don't none of it makes sense to
me it just seems like a
building that maybe you know would be
built in
the near east side or something but this
I don't think that's Bexley
so you have three board members that
feel one way I feel differently and um
it's your choice to do with
you know how you want to move forward so
foreign
not a happy medium a medium here
I don't think this is an all or none
approval at all
I think that
um there's been a lot of progress in
terms of the building height and the
the
um the evenness of the roofline
um the change in materials and the
change of colors I think we could give
some kind of
an approval on the massing
and the insights isn't that didn't be
step pretty much already do that we're
that this is all architecture yeah
that's all architecture so by the
massing we would we would say yes you're
on the right track and that the building
can be that big I think
I think it's about the envelope
so there's yes the building the size of
the placement the site plan
the parking that's all part of this
donated approval and three story is an
appropriate height for the zoning
District yep
we're not above that they're not looking
correct right right yeah I don't have a
problem with any of that right it's for
me it's the architecture yeah it's the
envelope it's the envelope of the
building it doesn't have a style it
doesn't I I don't know what that is and
that's where I get stuck
it to me this is a very important
building it is going to be a big
building on a street with very small
buildings on that side for a long time
because it's going to be a while before
the next one comes in and and builds we
have to plan on that so it's got to be
good
it's got to be really good
and I'm sorry that you're the first but
it's I I I don't see it
so it's got to be Charming or elegant or
you know
tell me a story of why it's good and I
don't see it
so I don't I mean if you want to vote
you need three of the four votes to be
able to move on with it
um and I don't know what your
expectation was today if you wanted to
get it approved or if you're just asking
for to get one more step closer or
what how you want to proceed but so I I
don't think that and correct me if I'm
wrong I don't think this there was any
expectation of an approval
all outright we expected that there
would be feedback of refinement of
elements of the building and that there
would be a follow-up of details and
elements that needed to be further
was addressed is not the right word but
yeah so it's you know it's got to cook
more right yeah yeah
um
from our perspective we're working
through this process simultaneously
while also navigating a very um volatile
construction pricing market and um
interest rates and everything like that
and so
um having an idea of
how we are potentially moving forward
and having some pathway that we know we
have the details and things like that
but we have some
semblance or understanding of certain
things so that I can get some pricing
from my contractors and I think you know
because the last thing I want to do is
stand in front of you in like six months
and say hey we just approved a building
and I can't afford to build it no no no
no we don't want that either so I think
if you I mean there was a lot of
comments tonight that at least I feel
that there's a lot of comments and
direction that will help you in a way
simplify even save construction money
yeah to make the building contextual to
Bexley right and I think it's not making
this the 1930s building right it's not
that's we don't expect that because you
don't build that way today we'd love it
but we know that this is not going to
happen so how do you do that how do you
take a building a modern building and
and make it feel like that
um and really it becomes down to
Simplicity it's like being comfortable
with just having a window and a
two-story facade it's okay right
um
so I I think if you can be just even
looking at
the example projects I think all of them
apply in a certain way you just have to
be able to take away the things that you
know you can't afford and then you're
left with you know more of a just an
elegance and window positioning
proportion and and just simple details
around that I think that goes a long way
um and then where you can support more
money you put the brick details like on
The Pedestrian levels and and the
transition so I think it's I think
you're definitely one big step closer
but you know we'd love to see you know
the next version
okay so would you like to just be tabled
and come back again we are not we do not
have a session next month so it would be
uh to the January meeting
that would be January 12th
I don't want to force anyone's hand and
I feel like we're at a position where if
we asked for a vote it might feel like
some my perception is is that there are
board members that are like we're close
but we're not there and so I think we
would prefer to table it and so that way
when we come and we can be respectful
and and of the comments that have been
given and try and come with a design
that hopefully doesn't have as much
feedback to it in January where
everybody's more comfortable with
all components
yeah I mean I so you're comfortable at
the table that's fine you know I think
there's it's semantics there's different
ways that we can
sorry
there's different ways that we can say
different things I mean we could we
could sit here and try to construct the
verbiage for a approval for the height
the massing I'm not sure it makes any
difference like semantically like what
we still want what I'm hearing and
please correct me if I'm wrong is that
there's a lot of improvement there's
there's you know an even roof line the
massings better the respect for
materiality the colors are better but
there's a whole story to use your words
that needs to be told on the elevation
that frankly I agree can be simplified
and I'd like to see it concentrated on
The Pedestrian level any money that you
do have to spend
um so I think that you know while some
board members may have more of a
positive spin on it and some have more
of a negative spin on I think we're all
kind of saying the same thing yeah so I
don't know if it matters whether you we
construct some kind of you know
convoluted approval where certain three
things are approved but then something
has to come back or just say if you're
comfortable it's just tabling it till
January I don't think it's risky because
you're hearing
this a similar thing yes you're moving
in the right direction but there's a lot
of work that needs to happen on the
elevation I'm the only one that's really
speaking against the architecture and I
I'm totally fine with the project
so it's not that at all
it's it's adjustable with tabling okay
if it's something that the board would
like to see so that way when we do come
back with the design there's not so many
questions or items that need to be
clarified I'm I'm comfortable with
spending the next 38 days 45 parenting
allows us
to be submitted um but spending that
time simplifying and taking the comments
to heart so that way there aren't if
there are conditions in January there
aren't so many okay awesome I think you
know just to summarize a little bit more
the overall Administration percentages
and scale I feel okay good right I mean
there may be some detailed changes that
you look at but in the massing and how
you're dealing with that I think that
all is close I think it's just now
working on the facade and materials and
then getting it you know further
develops I think yeah because that meets
kind of what we've said tonight yeah the
devil's in the details and I do I do
want to see when you do come back what's
happening with those mechanical units
and if they're being screened so that is
important to be able to see because that
let's make sure
there's a thousand feet away or 500 feet
away that may still be okay because it's
far enough where the people aren't
looking at that so it's just it'll be
good to know that we have it on record
that it's that's the way it's gonna be
yep you're not going to build another
you know story above this screen here
can I see you that's what you don't want
to do can't afford to do that
we appreciate the comments tonight we
really do and for the chance to come
back and we just appreciate the time
thank you appreciate the effort to this
so that would be tabled to the January
12th yes yes okay
so if somebody wants to make that motion
so moved
acroski Miss kraske second Scott
I won't call the roll uh Mr Steele yes
Mr Scott yes Mr straskey yes
I'm Tony yes thank you thank you we'll
see you back on January 12th
okay
the next application is 545 North Drexel
the applicant is Zara
so I'm going to butcher that last name
I'm not even going to try the last name
uh the owner is Muhammad assayad she's
not here to hear you butcher it but I
will tell her that you out of fantasy
you didn't say it can you tell me what
what her last name is
okay thank you yeah uh the applicant is
requesting a recommendation to the board
of zoning and planning for architecture
review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a Pergola a deck and
a hot tub which require variance from
the North side Lot line
so this has a little bit oh we'll start
with Karen's uh thing first let's go
ahead and you can square me please state
your name Muhammad you saw me swear from
the testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes thank you so a
little bit of background this was before
us last two months ago I think it was
last month September September
was anyone that was zoning in October
right and not here so um I I believe if
I'm correct that this table at edsonia
do you want to give it a zoning yeah the
the zoning board had an issue with the
three different variances that were
being requested as part of this project
which was constructed prior to applying
for the review
so they strongly urge the applicant to
see what he could do to resolve some of
those variants uh encroachments and the
applicant has pulled the deck back so it
meets the setback he's also pulled back
the arbor that's on the deck
so at this point we are looking at just
a variance for the hot tub which is
actually sitting on a concrete pad might
be a little bit more work to try to
manipulate that to meet the setback but
it's at five feet and it's required to
be eight feet so that's the only
variance at this point so he's planning
to return to the zoning board with his
improvements
so that that's good background
um in terms of the zoning I mean I I'm
kind of from a staff perspective I'm
more much more concerned that I I've
driven back there I've seen it
um I the art it looks nice I mean from a
from the road
um I'm more concerned about the
structural Integrity of it and we've
talked about this because in some of the
photos it looks like there's at least
one
um column that doesn't just sits on the
deck and the applicant can speak to this
but
um if if approved bile There It Is by
all of you I I personally don't think
the hot tub as long as the um deck is
cut like it has been proposed is
architecturally imposing on the
neighbor's property if you drive back
there they're pretty small and it's
pretty tight and they have stuff too so
I don't I don't think architecturally
the hot tub sting where it is is a
problem
um but I do think some of this deck and
pergola design
um worries me in its structure so we've
talked about that and the applicant has
hired a structural engineer is that
correct to do the drawings and and come
back to us I'm comfortable as staff
saying you know look
architecturally
it's okay would it be you know do we
like that it came to us after the fact
no but I'm much more concerned that it
be corrected so that structurally it is
okay and it cannot be finaled out until
he does submit a design and it's
reviewed by our chief building official
and if there's any modifications
um then perhaps Karen would need to step
in if there is a design modification
that would make it meet
the structural code
the the the job the workmanship on it
I've walked back you know as close as I
can and it's very clean and it's um very
very you know nicely done it's just I
don't feel comfortable with the
structure looking at this picture
is there anything else you want to
explain about the project
well as as much I'm happy to answer as
many questions as you guys have for me
but so to Echo your concern uh or to
discuss your concern was the structural
integrity
um
I I understand that there are certain
things that will have to change from
structure standpoint not appearances
standpoint there's a couple places even
the structural engineer wanted to see
him done differently when he came and
saw it
but he did not feel like we cannot step
a foot on it so there is there is
concern but it's not like safety concern
maybe over time it had been up like this
for a year so there is no life
um
well I I just go by code absolutely
absolutely and whatever drawings end up
coming to your desk will be quote
compliant drawings whatever changes that
we need to make from structure
standpoint I don't want anybody of my
family getting hurt this is us living
there it's not the property that I'm
renting or anything like that so from
structural Integrity standpoint we're
all saying the same thing we want a safe
and sound I don't want it falling in the
house or this fence or the neighbor's
yard you know we not nobody wants this
so as soon as I get the finished
structured drawings which should be a
week to 10 days from today
I will submit them once you get approved
I learned my lesson not bringing anybody
I can't fix it because I had the Nissan
I built this but I can't work on it
anymore because I had a knee surgery
last year so I'm gonna get somebody to
fix it based on the recommendation the
board does and the recommendation or the
design the structural engineer
recommends I think today we're looking
for an approval if
um just let me correct that we're
looking for a recommendation
recommendation for these app to approve
the to to
um yeah to issue a certificate of
appropriateness for design okay is there
a board member that would like to go
first on this application you want to do
audience first is there someone in the
audience that would like to speak about
this application
okay seeing no one is there a board
member that would like to go first
uh Miss croskey okay so
um I mean I based on the pictures uh
that I'm seeing and knowing that you
have now at least addressed um a portion
of the uh setbacks that you need to do
uh I would be okay with
um I I like I find them appropriate so
uh but I do share the concerns and I
understand and I appreciate that you
have a structural engineer involved and
that they will be providing documents
and you will be amending
um the structure that has been built uh
and or like I don't know if you're going
to be just a mending or if you might
have to take down some portions and redo
some
um I go ahead as far as taking down
there is a part that have to come down
regardless to meet the setback
requirements or whoever will do that
will address the structure issues as
well great Okay so
um I would just say like I would be fine
remanding once you get the drawings
things to
um
Miss poker and
um I think I'll leave it at that
Mr Scott
okay
um one
and these are these are probably more
notes for you but some comments to you
awesome uh overall scoping you know once
it it's pulled back I think it's going
to be a nice little deck and it sounds
like you've been enjoying it so yeah I'm
fortunate that we're doing it now but
that's the way it is uh recommendation
oh no actually conditioned the your
posts that stick up past the beams in
the trellis either to be cut to be flush
with the top of beams
so any one of those photos
um yeah the photos open yeah so if you
scroll down one photo
that's oh got cut off you can see it on
the one above
if you go back up to the top you can see
what you're talking about hold on maybe
I can get it
if you keep going right in the corner
yeah so you can so that your posts are
coming up and extending past the main
theme that's supporting the top trellis
I mean okay that post needs to stop at
that top of the beat
um
your beam extensions so
um in the second photo there on the left
side I think if you scroll down for the
hot tub photo yeah that hot tub one oh
you can just see it the beam is sticking
past the post so beyond the hot tub if
it's the main trellis your your beam
sticks out like two feet maybe that's
getting cut back yes yes and that's part
of um what zoning suggests I don't know
how far but it doesn't want to be flush
with the beam but if it has to be I get
it but it definitely doesn't want to
stick out that far at this it's
proportionally not accurate
and then there is about a foot and a
half that will go away from that maybe
more depends on yeah I wouldn't want to
see that past the post more than a foot
so
that would be the recommendation I think
zoning actually pointed that out yeah
yeah I think we're going with four to
six inches
okay and then back to the first photo
this will handle my last two comments uh
I think
the deck needs a at least a skirt board
at the base between the ground I
wouldn't recommend lattice or anything
like that I don't I hate lattice but I
think and I don't want to fully enclose
it because you you're going to get
Critters in there no matter what but I
think if there's too much air between
your deck and the grade so I would put
another maybe look at considering
putting another band board under that uh
just to kind of give a little bit more
depth to your your deck but also bridge
that gap between that and grade okay and
then your trellis on the right again
Structural Engineering is you know not
seeing those drawings
you really have a double trellis where
you have if we look at that the two
thinner posts between your just
that are framing your grill there you
come up you have the beam that supports
more beams that supports the top trellis
boards I would take off the top Trello
Sports because you're and then I would
cut them
the middle boards there to have this the
kind of angled tail to mimic the upper
boards but you're kind of dropping the
roof down there at the grill because you
basically have a double trellis which
doesn't work
obviously structural is going to one of
the main things structure is going to
come back is changing the the non-beam
two by that's horizontally holding up
your lower roof so that's I'm sure going
to get resolved but I just wouldn't I
don't want to see a double trellis so
you have if the beam chose and then a
secondary choice at the same size isn't
appropriate you can come back with that
like a two by two or something to do a
tops between a little bit more shade
with having name height on top of each
other inappropriate okay
and then I don't know the final grade
um
where it's the highest you definitely
have your railing but at the main deck
uh out from your doors if it's obviously
above 30 inches you're going to need a
railing but it might be 24 24 inches
that tire deck sits about 24 the actual
yard is what slopes okay so yeah
um that's all I have to say
thank you
you said all of them um
I think yeah meeting the conditions and
for the setbacks two to three is is key
um
I think that those two are those two
posts close to your neighbor are going
to also move in
or those staying where they are the post
staying where it is the
the actual
horizontal beams and boards are going to
be cut so they're at least three feet
from the fence okay
but the post I think no I don't have it
on the Drone but they think it's over
three feet okay no I know it's over
three feet I just don't know by how much
okay
anything else
you're there
yeah I have nothing uh else to add
um
Mr Scott did a good job of kind of going
through all that so
um so at this point we are asking for an
approval to be zap but that yeah a
recommendation to bizap and then he you
will work with Karen to get to go
through all these details and she'll
help you get them all figured out is
that yes yes that's the plan
is there a board member that can make a
motion
as a move Steel
do you want me to read findings oh yes
I'm sorry
all right too many things the findings a
backing decision of the board for
application number
bzap-22-35 for property located at 545
North Drexel the architecture View Board
recommends
approval of a certificate of
appropriateness to the board of zoning
appeals for the proposed modifications
with the conditions that the applicant
one the post is cut to meet the top of
the beam to the trellis North Post be
moved further south
and three remove the top trellis boards
at the South End of the trellis
and four work with staff on any other
final details
and further subject to zoning review by
the board of zoning planning are you
good with leaping off the the post or
the band board at the bottom I couldn't
hear that one so I skirted board
see that and I'll leave that to you the
finals to the deck there's the staff
though
I have them all down here but I just
wanted to make sure I'm not making that
a condition I'd like to have you review
that I'm not comfortable with it I don't
think it's absolutely necessary I just
want to explore you're going to want it
it's actually something that we want to
do as well for like bigger animals and
stuff you got a lot of space there so
you're going to have trouble if you want
to landscape it too there's a lot of
ways there's other ways to do so working
with staff on that one
a few modifications looks unfinished
yep
do you understand the findings of facts
as they're right too yes I do understand
about like a copy of them somehow oh
well
I'll type them up within a couple of
days I I think I remember three out of
the four but it'll be part of well you
we bring to be zap when you come
three weeks December 1st because of
Thanksgiving yes okay
okay so we have a motion
emotion
okay stick your
second in Cross Key
call the roll Mr Scott
yes
Mr Crosby yes Mr Steele yes
Madam Tony yes
okay so you will be in touch with Karen
she will help you get through the
process to get
um your list of things done and get on
to be safe yes ma'am okay thank you so
much
Okay the third application tonight still
part of old business is application ARB
22-49 which is also
bzap22-39 the address is 2735 Allegheny
the applicant is Curtis and Megan Allman
the owner is Curtis and Megan Allman the
applicant is requesting a recommendation
to the board of zoning and planning for
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for in
addition to the rear of the principal
structure
first off I would like to note there's a
modification after going to the zoning
board the applicant has worked with
Karen and they've actually come up with
a design that meets code
so he is only going to the architecture
review board for a certificate of
appropriateness so there's no going on
to BSF anymore this is no longer a
recommendation to be Zep this is for
full approval of the design
um I want to start by commending the
applicant it was
um a lot of work and he took your advice
this board and looked at a design that
did not need a variance and hired a I
don't know if it's a designer
um and came up with a very different
design that I think is going to be just
make a really nice addition to this
house
um so that's what's before us correct
that design yeah what I'm gonna do what
I'm doing is only pulling up the new
design
it's all on the website so if you need
me to pull something up for a reference
from last time but just by way of memory
we don't have to go through that but it
was very elongated you know I think we
were really
um not very supportive of a very long
narrow this is a very small house
um what is it 900 as it exists
thank you
very good I can talk yeah it was it's a
very small house I mean 900 square feet
as built yeah and I I do hope board
members had a chance not just to look at
pictures but to go
um passive because it really is like
when you see it you see that
um it's it's very tiny and what he has
proposed I think will just do wonders
for it by changing the pitch
um and changing some window sizes and
having an elevation even pop up behind
it I think we'll do wonders for the
streetscape so um I'm in full support of
approving this application with any
conditions of you know refinements to
detail because there still are some
details like columns I don't know if you
want some capitals on the columns or you
know that that okay yeah good story Xbox
cons where I find but um I I'm fine just
so the board knows I'm fine with an
approval of this with any
um discussion details coming through me
um and and I just want and to publicly
thank the applicant for the time he took
to come meet with Kathy and I and hire a
professional think that it will be well
worth it
awesome would you like to speak about
anything else but that Karen didn't
cover for you uh no I'd also like to
thank Karen and Kathy I mean they both
helped us out we've been on the phone a
couple different times and
um yeah I think uh it was it was good
feedback you can see we've made uh just
to remind you the the criticisms uh I
guess that's the kind word not much but
the roofline was straight back the both
sides were straight back and just
basically pulled it back but now we
changed several different aspects and
last time I was here I uh I wanted to
feel out
um Visa but zoning because I was worried
that if we came up with a you know a
good idea that it wouldn't be code and
then we'd have other issues or whatever
so we would we tabled here and they let
us go to uh bzap and they were very warm
they pulled up one of the board members
pulled up a Google Maps and and my house
is the smallest one right on that so
they were very supportive and they're
very kind and we actually came out with
the you know Bexley code I can't
remember what one it is but it does an
eight inch set in on on the side from
the fence we can get into that a little
bit it's a loophole so if you have an
existing non-conforming structure you
can add on as long as it's not
encroaching more than two feet into that
required side yard setback which in this
case is 6.6 so the house is at five feet
but by pulling the addition back eight
inches will allow that so that's the
loophole that he used and that's how we
got this design job yep
appreciate any questions or feedback is
there a board member that would like to
go first oh is there someone in the
audience that would like to speak about
this application
seeing them is there a board member that
would like to go first
somebody
you hear me Mr Scott okay uh
okay first of all sorry I like it hello
everybody
um
wow so uh love seeing this come back
um you've been busy and I think you've
uh
you know
definitely have made a lot of progress
on this house
it's interesting it you know it's a
fairly simple house and and
it's not a result of bad drawings but it
actually took me a little bit to kind of
get figure out exactly how the roofs
were working and I was like scratching
my head I'm gonna go what what what am I
missing and I've gotten it three reviews
definitely helped uh but that wasn't
even that it's not that it's complicated
it's just that you you changed it up
enough that it's just it was it was a
little bit
more difficult than I thought it should
be to solve it and that's good because
it's creating some interest
um you know the length of the house in
the addition I was concerned with the
mass being at the back of the house
right it's it's not something we
typically want to see as the along front
and a back big kind of two-story backer
a lot of times we see additions that are
these really big additions on back of
houses and they don't work because the
mass shouldn't be in the back but I
think with this house uh being as long
as it is that extra that kind of turned
Gable
um one since it's turned is appropriate
right because you're sloping away from
the street and not directly to the
street so I think that's much more
successful than if you actually would
have the Gable face the street it would
be way out of scale and not working at
all so I think that was definitely the
right decision
um you know in the details I think I
have some concerns in the in the column
details if you've you know if you've
been really bored and listening to
previous board meetings while you
weren't here you'll know that uh we are
are we frown upon box capitals okay so
you have a square column and you have a
one by wrap on it at the top and bottom
uh that's not the way to do it it's the
kind of the developer driven way but it
doesn't mean you can't have a simple
column uh it may mean instead of having
a uh an eight inch one by eight at the
bottom you have a square column and then
you just do a little one by one at seven
and a half inches off the okay so you
pick up that line but it's just in a
simple trim so uh really look at those
details and maybe if you want a simple
column you're not doing fancy five Pawn
or some sort of plastic totally fine but
let it be you know because the house is
not full of ornate details right so you
don't as soon as you add more to that it
starts to get out of place so you unless
it's very purposeful and again sometimes
it's on the front porch so if you were
to do like round columns on the front
porch that it would be appropriate
because it's it's the you know the size
of that that matters so just be careful
with that I think Karen will give you uh
plenty of guidance on that as you finish
these details are you reciting the
entire house now reciting no continuing
on with existing materials okay I would
and I get that and I understand that I
think in maybe a long-term goal I think
your windows need some window trim okay
right and again if you're not reciting
the whole house it's a very you know 70s
look
um it would be great to get a little bit
more uh you know one by material or
something that's around your your
windows that may be hard with your
existing trim I would look at that I
wouldn't put it in the back and and not
have it in the front so balance that out
but I think that would go a long way to
kind of give some a little bit of that
character a little bit Craftsman
character to to this I know it's vinyl
siding so you get it in the vinyl maybe
you look at doing it in a composite or a
cementitious board uh to kind of upscale
that with the vinyl it's fine but again
not knowing your budget I think that
would go a long way to really bring a
little bit of that soft character to the
house sure
and then I'm going to stop out if with
your permission out of my exterior and
talk one thing about your floor plan is
that okay well we talked a lot about it
last time but please we did right well
we had to because that was uh it was we
we wanted to steer you clear of a a long
mistake right so uh
I think it's much first of all I think
it's much better so I think you you're
definitely utilizing and maximizing that
your space and you have this kind of the
shotgun so you have to have a corridor
to connect everything so it's given
my only recommendation is depending on
your use this all comes down to your own
thing that back room which is a
potential guest room or maybe it's more
of a playroom during 99 of the time is
if you were to just flip your closets
and pick your off that middle bedroom
the closet and push it towards the
hallway and
that would actually put that door in
that bedroom in a better spot with the
bed maybe maybe not uh but what I'd
allow you to do is maybe do a barn door
into that
back room which allows you to keep that
door open and the hallway turns now into
a room instead of a door so something to
think about even if you just left it
open and maybe put a door in later I
don't know but I would just as a as an
archetype kind of looking at that I
think you would have a little bit more
connectivity between those front room
and back room that may be better just
just to give insight into what the room
is actually going to be used I work from
home that is my that's going to be my
office my office well my desk will
literally be in the corner with that
where you're post switching of those ah
okay well that that again I'm just
because you can't fit the burner I had
to put the closet my point is yeah you
know even even looking at a creative
door that maybe you know and again looks
like you're swinging it open against the
door the wall it's off great it's your
house
it's it's in the end I have no
jurisdiction of the incident it's just
uh it helps that long hallway in terms
so instead of a door it terminates in a
room so sure it's you know we deal with
that in Long quarters and multi-family
and all these other buildings we do so
just something to think about maybe that
door is something different right it's a
frosty glass or some other you're just
ending that quarter when that door shuts
up again spoke way too much on that
sorry
great job thank you
uh Mr Steele
I agree with everything Pete said um
thanks for coming back this looks
significantly better it feels
significantly better and you're
improving that house a ton
um and making it more livable which is
great
um
matching the existing siding things like
that if I think yeah long term hopefully
you can reset it all add some more trim
and details to do the windows
um and I mean even longer term perhaps
update some of the windows in the front
to dress it up but otherwise I mean this
came a long way and
yeah that's why
it's crazy
yep I agree with all the comments made
I'm are you happy
I'm happy if you guys are awesome oh I
mean yeah I I it's a better product it
is yeah it's uh it's going to be very
nice and uh I'm I'm hope hopeful that
you're very happy that the changes were
good and
um yeah I I'm I'm fine with the details
just being worked out with Karen things
that were mentioned like the columns and
some things you know trim around the
windows so
great job
uh okay so I was not here when you were
here the last time so um this is the
first time I've seen your project
um the only thing that I think would
make it uh even better is if you look at
the front facade of it you so you're
adding a little Dormer or another Dormer
you're adding a little um roof line over
the front door but the building still is
not symmetrical because you've got giant
windows on one side and a tiny window on
the other
it would look so much better if you took
like a little pergola or something
across those windows to almost say that
the asymmetricalness is intentional
and you know what I'm saying just any
little element it could be an awning or
anything that goes over those giant
windows that would just say that this is
supposed to be different than the other
side
do you understand what I'm saying uh I
think so I mean the only question I
would have is just looking across the
street into all the other houses that
had a similar
um the what I believe that the the
windows probably are the biggest on the
street so I understand your your point
but adding an additional element like
that I don't think would well in my
opinion looking driving up and down the
street just seeing the the simple
um elements that are there but yeah are
you thinking the shutters off am I
taking the shutters off uh per the
boss's request probably not but if it if
it is an issue no I think it balances no
I mean in your little planter box oh
what you don't have on the drawing the
shutters in the player box really
addresses balances out of the facade
event yeah it definitely helps for me
but you're adding the little thing over
the door which again is right on center
and so I personally think anything you
do over those windows uh the large
windows on the right to kind of make
that feel like it's supposed to be
different
I would I think I would argue but I did
draw Landscaping under that window
because I felt it was unbalanced but
maybe there's other ways to do it but
even if you were to because I like the
little quaintness of the covered porch
and I was looking thinking of what could
you do would you want to make that
bigger and I don't think I think that's
the solution so I think your porch is
right but maybe there's a little paper
area there and there's a bench under
that small window right so there's a
little bit of a porch That's not a porch
that's more of a landscape pedal but it
activates that because I think
you know that's that's more user items
and not architectural but I think
there's I literally drew it with a
little hedge that was you know under the
window because I was looking for balance
in that facade so I agree that
the asymmetrical is not it works but
there needs to be something that ties it
together and the shutters in the planter
do help okay yeah it does it does
definitely make it heavy on on the right
side like it feels on the left side but
in reality those windows are way over
scaled yeah for what you for what you
really want them to be so anything that
kind of makes them feel like they're you
know like anything for me anything that
would go over it would kind of make them
feel like that's a porch or something
underneath it so
um I would not make that a
must-have but just that would be my
recommendation of how to make the front
of the house
um and you I mean you would speak to on
awnings on both or uh just the just the
giant Windows the giant windows that I'm
looking at on the left side okay yeah
yeah okay yep
also did you look at the size of the
windows that are on those bedrooms to
make sure they do meet the egress so
that's one thing I mean you can see it
in the in the uh that we made we made
them all bigger I said all the all the
windows while we're doing it we're just
going to drop them down and meet the
egress code right okay
which are better anyway right and we
were going to do that again in the back
but again my office is going to go there
we might put a couch underneath the
little I'm pointing to the the rear left
left elevation the littler window that's
on the back now we did have a bigger
window
so at the bottom yeah I almost commented
on that I'm not a fan of the little
window but I get it back it's usability
and also
since since this has been submitted my
neighbor just put a six foot
um privacy fence on that line now so
this yeah but you know what a cup of
coffee you got up from an early morning
call and you walk out the door from your
office to the back porch would also be
really nice so big little doors out
there so that window would also be very
nice sure so I would I wasn't going to
make it any sort of a design Direction
but I think you should consider that we
definitely did and we had lots of
conversations
it may not always be your office right
well our taxes outside could work so and
it could be a a bedroom down down the
way now that they're double doors back
there meet the egress with the next
okay
uh can you read the findings in fact
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
arb-22-49 for property located at
27.35 Allegheny
the architecture review board
binds that the addition is compatible
with the existing structure and further
moves to approve a certificate of
appropriateness
with the condition that the applicant
will work with the design consultant on
column details window and window trim
do you understand the findings of fact
is there yes I do okay
is there a board member that will make a
motion so moved to croskey
second Scott
and I will call the roll Miss kraske yes
Mr Scott yes Mr Steele yes Madam Tony
yes improved you are approved thank you
very much thank you very much thanks for
working with us we'll be in touch I'm
sure thank you thank you
uh the next application is ARB 22-54 the
address is 2504 bexford place the
applicant is Yvonne riggy the owner is
Matt and Lindsey Van Meter the applicant
is seeking Architectural Review and
approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story addition
and renovation front porch Edition new
siding and new Roofing
okay and I'll give us an update yes this
application was before us um last month
we had a lot of really good discussion
mostly about details
um well I guess they're a little more
than details roof lines and some
um some details as well but
um this kind of went from
what I thought was going to be even
maybe a consent agenda item last month
to a pretty rigorous discussion on some
of the the eaves overhangs roof lines
and
um
Ivan was great she like absorbed all the
feedback and and asked to have a table
so she could study these and I think
this is just a really great um example
of like a great exercise to come back to
the board with she didn't really pick
one she does have a favorite she can
well it's on there preferred the way
that she originally designed it but
these are the three
um the three options that the board was
discussing and suggesting and here it is
before you for evaluations which one was
the original so the original one is the
what is called preferred
on the the left
and then the board also
um talked about the other two solutions
um both in the rear and in the front
about
um how to take this roof line and
um wrap it back you can talk about it if
you want um and the truth the actual the
I can pull up the picture but the fact
is is that when it didn't come up last
time is that that doesn't actually exist
there's a
um Greenhouse right yes that's on there
I think this is it see you yeah so
um there actually isn't the detail there
that was trying to quote unquote be
preserved
on the front yeah in the front
and that's going away the greenhouse and
that right now encroaches into the
setback I believe okay
[Music]
please state your name Yvonne riggy do
you saw me swore from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes thank you
I think it'll be good for Yvonne to talk
us through you know the design process
and what you kind of heard last time
where you took it these alternates and
what you prefer
sure yeah no reasoning so last month we
came and presented the
schemes on the left or the front and the
back and for the front we thought that
was the cleanest solution to kind of
marry the house with this new porch that
we were trying to add with the roof uh
knowing that with Dutch Colonials it's a
little bit tricky when you have the
extra brake uh slope of of the roof
coming down to the different pitch than
the actual roof so that always Crews
tricky on any Dutch Colonial so the
recommendation from the board last month
was somehow try to study what that
return roof condition could look like if
it actually turned into the front
elevation
um with the porch set in from that the
porch roof aligning with the edge of the
house
trying to maintain that kind of
roof return
and preserve that kind of characteristic
of Dutch Colonials and what I didn't
remember was that that little return it
exists on three corners but not on this
corner where the greenhouse is that's
the only corner just is not there
um so adding that in would be something
we'd have to actually do for new
construction it wouldn't be something
that we're trying to preserve
and so when studying that over the past
few weeks looking at it with my clients
they had a
a gut reaction of not really liking that
front it kind of made it a little bit
more messy
um wasn't quite as clean and I tend to
agree with them and I think they would
much rather preserve the detail the one
we originally showed you guys
but trying to come up with an
alternative that's maybe a hybrid or
compromise we said okay well if the
original design is still not acceptable
to you guys the compromise for us we
would prefer to do the middle option
which is in setting the porch and the
roof but still bringing the existing
House's roof down where it currently is
for the rear elevation the issue with
our original design that you guys had
mentioned was that the roof belt or
skirt whatever you call that um
condition that is currently on the house
now
um we tried to when we pulled it out
onto this Edition we thought it was a
good way to tie in that kind of roof
Return of the Dutch Colonial but I think
and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong
but I think the interpretation was that
you guys felt that wasn't really quite
original to the idea of a Dutch Colonial
so it was your preference to study
potentially not having that belt at all
and having the option on the right and
the reason why we didn't approach that
design or prepare that design for you
originally was that we did look at it
before but
myself and the team and the clients
thought that that kind of looked like a
condo kind of look on the back and the
scale of it really just didn't feel like
a pro inappropriate skill for this house
so it's my clients and my preference to
do the option that we originally
presented on the left but again a
compromise is to kind of marry the two
ideas and wrap it around only part of
the house like we're showing in them
and so I think this is really just a
discussion so we can kind of open up to
you guys and would love to hear your
feedback on where you think
uh would be the best direction to take
this
thank you
uh I'm gonna go to Mr Scott because I
know you were here for that meeting I
was
anyway I thought we're
so smart that was right I'm just gonna
say right I love
that you laid it out this way it is I
love this awesome right because it can
it immediately convinced me
that you're right
do you like alt one
the alt one version
um personally as an architect do you
like that version I personally like the
options on the left the preferred ones
but you don't like all one
I would I would like all one better than
all two all two so you don't like all
two I agree I like I think all three is
the worst I think I'll choose one is not
very good and I think all the preferred
and I was I was I didn't like I didn't
like the belt the skirt in the back and
but now that I the more I look at it
more I look at the options that you
brought that was in my head
um so um
other than your box capitals
I think I'm all in for preferred your
preferred versions and I really
appreciate the effort and the thinking
that went into
from our last meeting because
um maybe it's just selfish I I I all
that work is is resulted in in really
what I feel is the best design for this
it is not an easy solution
um the only other real way when I look
at that back all one obviously all two
elevation is to really pull that mass in
like two feet on either side to allow
that if the roof of the original house
to really read and allow this box but
that doesn't really work with spending
all this money and losing all that
square footage so there's got to be some
sort of compromise and balance so
I'm gonna stop because I I'm all in
except for your box capitals and I'm
preferred okay
nice job uh well and one other thing I
noticed that the on the back reelevation
of the preferred we won't even look at
on my anymore at all one or two for me
your second doors uh would you know
based on your steps you're gonna have a
railing I'm assuming you would just copy
the railing that you have to the left
so you know I would look at you know is
there a way that is it not feasible to
combine those and try to eliminate some
more railing is you can get two more
railings back there yeah so just think
about that I'm sure you'll find that
solution keep that on your radar because
I think that that'll create this a
little bit more of a back porch if you
connect those those masses uh if you
have that in your budget and I think
that'll help
a lot for that rear rear yards nice job
thank you
agree preferred
do it that's it
Mr Steele I agree thank you for adopting
generational lighting
conversion Pennsylvania
is that
about a below 30 inches meaning the
railing with her oh we would we would
massage the grade to make sure that
of White Mountains and there's a
designer that I can do but you still
need a rail if you've got three steps
the substituting to realize
handrail it wasn't either sorry I do
have one question and maybe you don't
know this answer
do you know how you're going to support
that roof plane as it sticks way past
your beam
the tie into the colonial roof it sticks
out like it's almost three feet pasture
yeah right there
um I mean it should only stick up a foot
no I think it sticks out it should match
the existing house which is about a foot
and a few inches
yeah but if you go to these I don't know
if you go to the original drawings uh
the elevation I think that shows it
because that was the originals
um they were on the agenda
that one the bottom one I think that one
I I it's a structural issue I just wanna
one of those things is you know keep
going if you have a certain elevation
sorry I'm jumping back in go to the top
left elevation there
oh shoot
what'd you do
I I think I have a lot of stuff on my
computer I just have to be careful I I
just I just want it's gonna be an
interesting detail because you're going
to have normal you know beam and Raptors
going up to the house but then you're
going to have this fairly long extension
uh so even that right I look at that on
my calendar how you frame that so
um I think for me it's just a note to
staff to make sure those details come in
because you know I don't know if you're
out you're putting Outriggers or if
you're purlins or somehow you're gonna
have to build that up a little bit
ship panel or something yeah great but I
don't know you know what the budget is
so I would be interested in making sure
those details align with the intent here
um
and I'm I'm one if I was detailing it
I'm not sure how I would do it really so
just interesting to see how you do okay
but I think it's the right move it's a
it's strange it's quirky right it's it's
not typical to be that long because
you're typically just boxing out that
rake but here it's you're you're going
pretty far and it won't have a tendency
to Sag if it's not done right so
just just keep it on the radar sorry
they need to jump in here you're taking
the shutter zombie yes
anything else Mr stew no no
um yeah so I I really appreciate you
doing this because
um it's a very complicated building to
add a porch to and uh
um my only comment that I did think that
your two back doors should be at the
same Landing so that it kind of tied
them together but
um and that would simplify the number of
steps and all that stuff you had back
there but other than that I I agree your
preferred are
your best solution so I appreciate you
can I have a clarifying question if if
the clients aren't really sure what they
want to do with that back patio yet
um the one that's at grade they're
considering it just being at grade like
a patio paper patio in which case it
would be rendered differently than a
deck uh at the entry would you still
want to see a marriage of Landings or
exterior uh
I I would even if it's just you know
taking up one long Landing across the
two
um and then running you know a rail down
one side and a rail down the other
because otherwise you're going to end up
with all these rails coming down so I
think one Landing going across the back
of it and that and that can have a giant
set of stairs you know that comes all
the way across it down but
um yeah it they just look very
discombobulated right now the two but
um
okay so um so I think we're all in
agreement that preferred is
um original yeah the original is is the
one to move forward with so and again
appreciate all your work helping us
understand it is I think we have to see
it it's a good design tool for us to see
all of those side by side to help us
make the right decision ourselves yeah
yeah well and I'll say it again without
that I might have pushed for you know
more what I said so it really helped me
say wow that's that's not working at all
right I see those options and when we're
talking about it and it looks great in
my head until you get it on paper
sometimes you that's when you have to
step back and you're like so I I
appreciate the efforts yeah thank you
for doing it
okay uh so finding's a fact
the findings in fact and decision of the
board for application number
arb-22-54 for property located at 2504
Beckford place
the architecture would be review review
board finds that the proposed two-story
Edition is architecture compatible with
the existing structure
and and approves a certificate of
appropriateness as submitted in the
preferred rendering with the condition
that the applicant provide columns
details that they tie the two rear
Landings together
and three work with staff on the final
design details for approval
if you understand the findings of facts
um before we close on this was there
anybody in the audience that wanted to
speak about this application
I always forget that
okay seeing then
um
is there a board member that will make a
motion so moved Cross Key
second stew
I will call the roll please Mr Scott yes
Mr Steele yes Miss croskey yes yes
thank you thank you guys appreciate it
um we're going to take a short 10 minute
break so we can use the bathroom we
still have five more
um applications all part of new business
so
um we'll be back in 10 minutes
okay thank you for the break we are back
okay so we will start now with um new
business and our first
application is uh number ARB
22-58 the address is 21 South Parkview
the applicant is knee Neil hoshield uh
an Nth Degree and the owner is Russ
Klein the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
covered porch Edition
uh Karen will give us a little bit of
background okay
um this application is before the board
for the first time
um some of the documentation at least
for me was a little bit difficult to
understand so
um I did talked or we'd never talked but
we emailed back and forth and I got some
um better kind of more refined site plan
I still have some difficulty and the
applicant can address this
um understanding exactly how those
connections are going to be made
um
I just want to make sure I have the
right drawings all up here yeah this was
the first one so that was kind of hard
to understand
um and
this
these um these are photos these are
photos this one was really difficult to
understand kind of
um
especially this area here
I'm gonna let the applicant do you want
to swear let's recommend yeah or were
those just like Google Earth and they
get kind of wacky when is that what it
was yeah please state your name Neil
hospital it's been a while uh do you
solemnly swear from the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
I do thank you yeah we
um I didn't really know what happened
there but I I that explains it exactly
um sometimes happens so
um it's an it's an it's a gorgeous
property it's a little bit unusual and
then it has a driveway that comes out
comes onto from broad is that right
comes in from South Park View but then
that's broad
um
there the applicant was kind enough to
send me some revised drawings that it's
a little bit easier to understand
um these
um
these are not what we typically get for
elevations and I had requested some
straight on elevations and some straight
on floor plans
um so that we could understand it a
little bit better this was submitted a
little bit later I hope all of you have
had a chance to look at it I think it's
been up for a couple days though so
um it explains it a little bit better
than the original site plan
and the connection to the existing
structure as well
um would you like to give us more an
explanation of the project please
yeah so the owners prefer to have a
covered porch off of their great room
right now those arched windows and
played in Windows and the French doors
that three sets
um goes out onto a patio currently the
patio is quite large
um and so that also will break up that
hard surface
um they wanted an outdoor fireplace as
well
um and so that's where it's about 21
feet wide by uh 25 feet deep which
covers the existing patio out there so
we are keeping the existing patio
pulling out the paper stones and gonna
relay them is this is this shown with
North to the top of the page yes thank
you
and so Parkview runs to the right of the
page so this is Parkview
okay and this is Broad correct that's
helpful so it's on the front of the
house so this is technically the side
the front door is on the left side
Parkview and this is Broad am I correct
yes correct yes broad is here yep
Parkview is here so the front door where
you see existing structure the E that
door is the front door
it's actually technically that's on the
back of the property but that does right
here that's the front door and I think
they originally had a driveway off of
the
alley yes and then yeah out of the
driveway that connects out to the Park
View side of the property yeah I tried
to I yeah these are these are from these
are not what you submitted
these are
um what I screenshotted from Google
Earth so that you could see what we're
just talking about
so I added these to your application but
this is Broad
this is Parkview
yeah Classic this would be the area of
the Edition correct
does everybody understand and what
Kathy's saying is I I couldn't figure
out from Google Earth if it still exists
or not but the driveway that also
connects from the alley okay so how far
back you go it definitely does exist
okay I figured because it's on there
um I also wanted to just point out
um before I hand it back to you
there is a huge tree line so I just I
took Google Earth pictures of this so
you can see
um what you actually see from Parkview
okay
um is there a board member that wants to
go first
audience oh so so basically so on this
drawing if you look up to the north to
the farthest right where there's a set
of French doors that go out yeah where
the cursor is that currently is a
covered porch that has um the gable roof
and so we're sort of mimicking that just
making it on a larger scale currently
the great room which was in dishoom and
when that was done maybe back in the 90s
uh to early 2000s has a flat roof so
this
um hip roof that we're putting on the
covered porch will sort of break up that
flatness that you can potentially see
during the winter from Parkview
and then the same materials that are on
the current covered porch to the north
will be used on that one so we're
mimicking the same Stone the same brick
detail around the openings
um same slate roof same copper gutters
same Fashions of it
okay is there a board member is there
anyone in the audience that wants to
speak about this application
okay seeing no one is there a board
member that would like to go first
is this picture I'm sorry to interrupt
is this picture a good
um this is where it will be yes and this
is what it will mimic yes okay
I think that's just good for reference
the only thing we're not mimicking in
that that does have arches that face
broad you can sort of see them through
the the covered porch these will be
um Square openings that are similar to
The Doors to the left of that cupboard
porch
one more time is there a board member
that would like to go first I will Mr
Stephen
are there any drawings of the South
elevation how this new hip rib is going
to tie in with the flat roof of the
great room I'm wondering elevation like
height wise is it above it is it going
to die into it it is above it so
actually on that one if you just go oh
yeah that one there
um so it is the uh slope is going to
hang over the parapet
of the existing roof
I think the tying that in is going to be
the key to it because in the the
existing north kind of Edition cover
porch it dives into that with the gables
kind of it does
and telescoping there and you're lacking
that so that's gonna
be key to this working I mean the
material matching materials I'm sure
it'll look great just wondering how
that'll work so seeing the drawing of
that a little I guess there's a gun
a little more in depth for me personally
would be helpful
that's I guess also my other question
would be is the grade going to be the
same as the doors or is it because
there's a step down there from the
existing patio it will be that
uh no where the existing doors are it
basically comes directly out to that map
so there will still be a step down from
the main patio into the space one step
from the great room down to the patio
there might be some water issues to deal
with there but I'm sure you'll figure
that out so that's why
all right I'm going to use that as my
springboard existing fish floor inside
the house currently you're going to step
down into the new patio or is it going
to be flush step down yeah yes
I think it's showing
uh yeah because I was looking at your
wall section your wallet section appears
to be a similar project but not exact
um
and there's a significant grade change
but I think
that's just implying some framing
details and it's not really
representative okay
it's a stolen detail potentially but uh
I I think uh for me this is the most
interesting set of drawings I've ever
seen
um
a different assortment of styles and
pieces kind of put together so uh but
it's it is informative I I just can only
really comment on uh the fact that if I
lean on you're matching everything to
existing then I am in full favor of the
scope locations great I think that works
well with the site
um the details and the proportion of the
roof as Mr Steele says and how that ties
in there's a Scupper there that's gonna
have to be reworked and you're gonna
you're gonna have to figure that out
um but in general
um I think
from what I see it it is it's it's it's
an acceptable project
but I'm unable to approve it in the
level of details that are being
presented I would want to see some some
real drawings that kind of represent the
the architecture and I mean this shows
horizontal siding
um I'm assuming it's Stone so I get
you're probably pulling from multiple
things and working some computer magic
uh but I think uh as a preliminary uh
schematic I'm in favor of the project I
just need to see some real drawings okay
Miss croskey
yeah
um I would agree with that I I'm having
a really hard time with the set of
drawings that are like in front of us
right now
um I'm I I think the concept of I agree
with that concept of where this is going
is appropriate I am not convinced though
because I can't tell I mean you're
showing like
what you're showing for the roof and how
it's going to attach to where you have
this like flat you know parapet and
everything I'm not sure that's going to
look right
um so I think you need to come back with
some better
drawings and elevations uh showing the
materials showing how you're going to
marry the materials that are on you know
because you have like a stucco it looks
like it's stucco over on the end yeah so
you're putting like the stone and the
brick that's on one half of their house
and coming over to the other side which
could could be pretty fine I'm sure but
like there's just not enough here to
like
convince me that this is going to be
appropriate or that the type of roof
that you have going on is going to look
right with what's it what it's attaching
to so the idea of having this over that
patio sounds great
I like that you're keeping those three
you know doors and the Arches and all
that that's going to be very nice but
yeah I need you to come back with like
some better drawings not stuff that's
like piecemeal together okay
um
yeah okay and I'm I'm the same
um we just need real drawings of how it
gets built the details Dimensions all
that kind of stuff on it okay concept is
great
um were you gonna say something Kathy I
thought I could show you okay
um so would you like to be tabled to
next month or two it would be January
January 12th I think you said that is
that meaning
awesome in the meantime Karen is
available to you to help you with
anything that you want to submit or
whenever you finish the like just
traditional real elevations that
includes at least some if not all of the
house where it's connected to okay you
can just email them to me okay and
earlier the better because then I can
say yeah you still need to do this or
this would be helpful okay all right all
right we need a vote on that right we're
tabling it okay Okay who wants to make
that motion so moved to croskey
second Scott
Miss prosky
yes Mr stew yes
yes
attorney yes thank you we'll see you
back on in January
okay the next application is number ARB
22-59 the address is 380 South Merkel
the applicant is Jack Metzger the owner
is Debbie Vin vinoker
uh the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness to add a
porch roof to the patio on the northeast
side of the family room
Karen will give us a little bit of
background
okay
um this is actually
um and not so simple but simple addition
of a canopy membrane roof when I say
it's not that simple because the
existing two roofs that it'll connect
are at different heights but there is a
stamped concrete patio that's already
there and this will just pretty much
take the form of that they just want to
have a covering over it and I've I've
actually talked through the
um project quite a bit with um
Mr Metzger for being formal Jack John
Metzger
um and I have confidence that this um
that that this is going to be just a
very nice addition I did addition to
that patio I did ask for some more
pictures that I hope most of you got to
see that we put in a little bit later
because at first there was just a one
picture so I wanted to make sure that we
could talk through this
um with you seeing where this patio is
and how it will be connected but I'm I'm
fine with
um this application being approved to
the condition that I work through any
difficulties with this construction with
the applicant
um he just wants to do a very slightly
sloped membrane roof over over this
porch connecting it
okay can we have Kathy's side uh
it's where are you in yes
please did your name
Jack Metzger you saw me
yes
is there anything you'd like to add to
what what the project entails
um not not really
it will come in with the eyebrow above
the triple window there
where the gutter is there uh
we'll tie in to that we'll take it apart
and stay under the that roof line and
come out with the
stay down as low as we can but at about
that height and then above the sliding
door
we'll have to raise up a little bit to
catch and then above the main door to
the garage which is the far left that'll
get terminated and all on the same line
as a stucco wall there
going up underneath and I'm just
pretty simple
to be too close one about that blue uh
dog thing
right where that he left this thing on
the patio and then the next one back at
towards the corner by the couch
right in there to follow that part of
the point
thank you guys
okay is there a board member that would
like to go first
all right I'm picking someone Miss
croskey
foreign
[Music]
I think uh it'll be I think it's
appropriate I agree that the details
need to be worked out uh with misspoker
um
yeah I I don't really have
much else to say uh I'm assuming the
limits you're it doesn't seem like it's
covering the whole there's like a little
bit of a not even uh I guess certainly
the North End of the patio
uh
maybe I need to see the picture again
let me see here on the other side there
yeah is there a reason why they're not
having to go all the way out to stop
putting blue chairs yeah it'll leave
that there's two little two little blue
chairs metal table that will be out off
okay not covered and that's just what
they want they don't want to fully cover
it okay and I I actually I live there
too I mean oh I'm sorry I'm sorry
different name I wish I'm still there no
no I apologize I didn't realize you were
also the so just to give you some
contact context sorry
okay sorry it just is a contract I
understand sorry about that sir
[Laughter]
it's late
um
yeah I I'm I'm fine I'm fine with
letting Karen work through the details
with you sir I just think this is one of
those projects that we're probably gonna
see how things look when you take off
that eyebrow too yeah yeah find out
what's in there I yeah don't know I'm
sure we can make it you know
once we get back in there
um Mr Scott you just looked at me so
you're next
[Laughter]
I mean we're just going to have to
extend above the sliding door up to meet
and actually it's an extended above the
garage wall let's start the highest
point let's start at the top of the fly
roof so you're really coming off the top
of your fascia up that's above the
window right yes three window that
that's your highest elevation you're
going to come flat off of that and flat
I'm going to leave it flat it's not flat
um you're gonna move that Gutter and
you're gonna somehow tie a membrane roof
into a fairly shallow shingle roof and
then you're going to come over and butt
above
a lower roof and tie it into that
one the way you're drawing is and you
can leave it here for now you're
dropping your main roof Rafters under
the E right there top right under the
fascia and the soffit and you're showing
the windows below that but your Windows
touch your face you're soffit there
they're right I'm just gonna cut yeah
it's that's something that's gone really
really hard um it's going to have to be
it again I don't have to solve this
structurally for you so I'm concerned
that that's not going to work that great
uh but
your house you'll figure that out
um
and then go back to that photo again for
me wait real quick and go back to that
sorry left image where and it's it's
you're drawing exactly what I think how
that structure is coming in meeting that
left roof there yeah but obviously you
cannot leave that that way that roof the
root water is coming up and getting
picked up by the flat roof at the top
it's going to have to oh it's going to
be and you're going to have to box it
down a garage you're gonna have to kind
of make a mess I'm gonna have to box
that in cut that overhang there they're
off
yeah so I think again I we don't have
all that here so I don't well there's no
I couldn't even forward with this I
didn't even draw that for you until yeah
again I and I just look at this spot and
it's like wow there's and I guess the
only way to really do this is to shove
something in there and then they fix the
conditions around it right yeah we have
to there is rubber in that corner
already
I saw that it comes down to valley yeah
where they all come together whoever did
that freeze way yeah years ago which
line lines up and we got every elevation
so you know in in general the scope I
think it's a nice little spot and flat
roof is appropriate I wouldn't want to
bring any other major sloped roof into
there to extend it I think you know if
you're going to cover that then you want
it to be watertight you know a low
sloped roof
um
is probably appropriate I really worry
what happens
at the outside does it come all the way
out to the garage protrusion
right there right there we're going to
come cover that door we'll come out to
you we're gonna come all the way out and
cover the door that way you can walk out
of the garage door
underneath the roof
the uh what happens with that soffit
remember right are you cutting that all
dominated and put it straight up
and to the rafter and fill that in so
you can't see back in the garage roof
yeah well no yeah and it's perfect for
Birds it's a block wall it is blocked
yeah it's a black Rod so that's not so
you said that sounds a lot because I
know that that structure that that
Raptor that's come down can easily be
cut yeah I worry about you know what
that looks like
um masking wise but yeah there's so much
quirky things going on now I think it's
just people know a part of the house I
think because you can't get in I really
do you can't get in the house from the
garage of course not whoever I've only
been here six years so there's this new
door a door I mean and when I moved
there six years ago that door was nailed
shut of course
all right so those are other issues
it's hard I mean it's hard to approve it
or to yeah I support the
intent and I appreciate the effort and
the thinking that's gone into it I think
you have a huge challenge of getting
this to work and not uh you know you're
talking about three separate roofs at
multiple elevations coming into a low
slope Group which has the slope
so we've got her uh I don't know where
that gutter is gonna drain to so that's
something I want to make sure we pick up
but uh I I just think it's it just looks
that's a great challenge
so and I guess you started with
unsticking the door unknailing the door
this is number two it works now
[Laughter]
what what was your recommendation on
this well I I think this is a project
that he has to get in there and see
what's in there I mean I think that if
it's just
remanded to staff to work with them
I I don't know how else to be helpful if
you drew all your roof lines I came I
don't see a drawing of roof lines if I
mean like a roof plan yeah a roof plan
because I I can't figure out by looking
at any of the photos what what's really
going on with any of the roofs so um I
think that would be really helpful lower
part of the framing plan
you can see the rafters coming out to
the beam
from the existing house those are the
sliding doors at the bottom of the by
where it says friendly plan that's a
sliding door
so those Rafters are going to just have
to sit where they sit and it's just that
where the existing roof is it's just
gonna have to be rubber back as far as
it's got to go until you get that's the
same you mean you just got it's got to
all be rubber fixed with a shingle so
everything drains out are you cladding
the underside of this
yeah
the underside of the roof
and she wants
to skateboard or Knotty Pine or
something I don't agree or something
something nice I but I think
um
chairman Tony is is making a good point
your roof plan here on the left right
you could very easily uh take the left
and the bottom portion show your
existing roofing that's that's there
right and how you're connecting
to that I know that some of it will
probably be worked out in the field when
you're actually constructing it but like
looking at the limits of where this is
coming into that other Roofing and
showing that is going to be important
and I think in terms of your well yeah
so for me I would think that and draw
what your roof lines are doing all this
because this this has a roof a small
roof coming out over here this has a
large roof going there this has another
roof it would for me it would I can't
look at the photos and understand what
all the roofs are doing so
um it's hard for me to
give much of a comment to be honest and
probably for the actual drawings like
going to the city you're gonna probably
need that regardless so
eventually it's you're gonna need it
for City approval 30 minutes yeah for
permitting structurally everything
that's
how how it ties into the existing roof
is
I mean on the on the left side where
it's where we're tying into the overhang
it's all got to be that overhang the top
of it the flashing will still be there
but to width of the porch that'll be
taken off and
attached to whatever we attached to
there
was and then
and then that's all gonna underneath
there we'll just get finished with wood
and painted same colors tremor
stucco is just because you have cover
covered up then
at the ceilings once like I just I know
that this there's a little roof here and
I can't figure out what happens where
that ties in right right there that
where it comes into the corner of that
that overhang will stop
it'll come to to the new portion proof
and terminate and the new porch roof
will be
under you know in it so you won't it
just disappears on the bottom excuse me
because it looks like that upper room
then you'll tie into the side group fire
uh it does
so this all along the bottom of the part
there that all has to
change and then that wall will get
extended to however whatever it takes to
get to the bottom of those grafters to
new grafters coming out so the stucco
will go up and then they'll be probably
this much wood at above the sliding door
and then change
yeah that um right there in that picture
so if we come in right there that line
will run from up above where there's a
little Valley
that might we'll tie in there and it'll
run along top the shingles there's a
straight line in it they overhang
all gets cut off over to the wherever
we're going coming to the left so the
overhang at the garage
and the gutter that all terminates and
then
so the ceiling can come in underneath it
and we just have to fill in so that'll
all be sit that all sits on that block
wall
once we get in there strangely enough I
follow it but so you're not modifying
the garage socket well the garage
software will get cut off excited to the
end of it yeah well it'll stop at the
our new roof
and that that wall will be taller right
there whatever it takes to get you know
up to it and
yeah I mean I'm comfortable with
whatever I I
strangely understand because I think
we've talked through it so much and I've
walked it and looked at it and
everything so it it's it's not easy but
I I do understand one thing I will say
in addition I might jump again no go
sure yeah you're good uh I don't like
the post coming down you're going to do
a sonotube foundation looks like a round
tube foundation for your post and you're
going to embed the post in concrete
that means you want to do a pressure
treated post yeah which is fine
um
I would recommend elevating that post
four inches out of the ground the
concrete foundation and then putting the
post as on a Simpson anchor maybe
trimming that out with box trim or
something uh because probably wrapped in
uh post anyway okay but my point my
point is it'll last twice as long right
that gives a little bit of detail to the
base as long as it's not too wide right
if you're doing a 24 it's pretty wide
but if you're doing it if you can get 18
based on the soil pressures and you're
you're loading uh you just get a little
bit more elegant detail of how that post
comes and meets the ground it's not just
sitting on the concrete embedment uh I
think that goes a long way so if you're
doing a Solitude you just Raise It On
The Ground a little bit pour it out
that's uh I would suggest looking at
that
okay so what would the board like would
you like this to come back or would you
like to give it to Karen to have her
what would you like Mr applicant would
you like to keep helping you I mean what
are your thoughts on the detached
coverage yes a detached coverage space
just a little offset with a much simpler
roof you say that a detached covered
like a structure for an attached
structure so the attached structure is
yeah just you know it's permanent and
I mean we looked at different ideas even
an awning and thing it was just nothing
it's where it's at it's
she's no she wants a nice solid she
wants to look nice underneath and okay
you know it's pretty porch like she sees
in the pictures and magazines and so
I have to comply uh
but uh
yeah it's
and structurally it's there's a lot of
tie-in sleepers and whatever we have to
do to tie in above the the one we're
flying above sliding door
that's the only place we're going to
have much problems
or anything else kind of fits
and what's
unique about the garage the garage roof
and the other roof actually shingles
come straight across they do it steps
back but yeah I mean even if you even
though you can't you know it doesn't
look like they would with the offset
yeah if ironically as shingles are all
one right there if you're if your
drawing is is and I'm not criticizing in
any way shape of your drawing is at all
accurate let me go back to that section
the top left one looking at the fascia
Beyond above the windows and the garage
soffit that's going to get chopped off
and where your beam is and then where
your top trellis or your fascia for your
if all that works out again you're not
showing any slope
you know maybe there's a
chance and all of that's going to work
out just perfect for you to the point of
being able to patch it on because I
think in the end that might be actually
really really well done if you get
everything smooth and transition I have
to just come up and like say that's all
gonna there's gonna be fill all along
that side there if you're going to put a
finished ceiling in the underneath the
roof you definitely need to frame out
and box out your beam right you can't
have that yeah
it'll all get boxed one by clean out the
face shield and then everything gets
painted the same colors of existing trim
so are you planning on taking your
Gutter and your downspout along to one
of the sides of the house it's coming
this way so it's coming towards the
garage so it's going to go around
the garage along the right side of it
what you're seeing there and uh because
it's going to hang that angle piece I
don't know if it'd be enough
with the termination cap there's a
Gutter The Gutter on the garage actually
goes to the back
so yeah but you're going to be above
that it should be able to tie end right
there and come across so you're going to
tie in and drop it down into that all
right yeah
that'll be fun
yeah a little short gutter
above the sliding door actually just
drains right down behind that green pot
industry runs out on a patio so that's
gonna be good to clean in it that'll be
gone I mean this is a very complicated
thing and I mean normally we would not
approve it on the drawings that we have
but at the same time I don't want to
make the process harder than it has to
be so
um I think this is a very unusual case
right I think and it's so whenever you
all are comfortable with I'm yeah I'm
comfortable
with it if something becomes not
comfortable for me you'll come back here
well so then I guess my question I mean
we're going to have to whatever building
guys want structurally that if I it I'm
gonna have to provide that for them yeah
and and so I think the look is is once
it gets up there's going to be fairly
simple yeah I
that's the way I'm thinking about this
is that this is for design review so you
know the concept of having a
flat roof slightly floating flowers
covering it doing the column details the
way you were talked about so they can
have a nice cover over this is fine and
that's what we're here for right so I'm
that's why I'm okay with with the
approval of this because you're going to
have to have the structural drawings
more detailed than this to pass to get
your building permit if that's not going
to work he'll be back with something
else okay so we will remand it to Karen
and you will figure out all those
details with her and get the drawings in
for your permit with conditions
conditions that the the ceiling is
finished
the beam is boxed
uh I would actually make it a condition
that your post is sitting on a raised
Foundation
in the
intersections of this roof with the
surrounding soffits and Eaves is yeah
that intersection is cleaned
right we don't know exactly what you're
gonna run into but as you work through
that those conditions have to be cleaned
yep
and then if that's not working you can
keep that back to us right okay and I
know that the applicant wants that oh
yeah okay yeah but it's just
it has to be worked out in structural
drawings yeah okay is there a board
member that will make a motion
or findings of facts I'm sorry did we
ask we did yeah she asked first
findings about the decision of the board
for application remember arv
-22-59 for property located at 380 South
Merkel the architecture review board
finds that the proposed porch cover over
the patios architecturally compatible
with the existing structure
and approves a certificate of
appropriateness with the following
conditions as the ceiling is finished
that the posts are on raised foundation
and the intersections of the new roof
are clean where they meet these
surrounding roofs and the applicant is
to work with the design consultant on
Final design details for construction
plans
do you understand the findings the fact
that she read them okay is there a board
that will make a board member that will
make a motion so moved Cross Key
second skill
and we'll call the roll uh Mr Steele yes
Mr Scott yes Miss kraske yes Madam
attorney yes
thank you very much thank you
okay the next application is number bzap
22-42 the address is 2834 Powell the
applicant is Joey Brunetto the owner is
Joey burnetto the applicant is Seeking a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for Architectural Review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish an existing
two-car garage and construct a new
four-car garage
Karen will give us a little bit of
background hey
um this application is before you for
the first time for a
new detached garage with it um will be
what the applicant is asking for is a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning because this is a very
large garage that we'll need a variance
um
I'm also concerned about what is in the
garage to the floor plans because it
does look as though there is
bathing kitchen
what is it Kathy bathing he's sleeping
modified plans oh these are modified
submitted because it was clearly a
dwelling unit
as a proposed and I indicated that I
could not take it to the zoning board
they couldn't Grant a variance as it was
drawn so he removed the bed it was never
an intention for that but yeah no no
yeah no no I knew the way it got drawn
yeah yeah so what we're here for is not
to look at this garage design and for
its architecture
um in relation to
um the site it's appropriateness
architecturally in size and in relation
to the neighboring properties I did put
together and I can bring it up
a whole bunch of photos that the
applicant took
um
so that you can see the context more
it is a fairly large lot and there is no
no alley behind you correct okay and I
think there's a great change too that's
pretty evident when you're looking from
the street straight back that that
garage that's there now is actually
fairly tall but it doesn't look as tall
because of that grade change
and actually the new structure is
actually going to be shorter
name Joey Brunetto just always yes
yes
so
so this no that the house is
in front of this but this is the
existing garage so you can see it's
still this is their house right here
okay that's what I was trying to figure
out um yeah there's a whole bunch that
we can watch the picture this is the
house
this is the house thanks
um with neighboring properties this is
the garage there's a pretty long
driveway there's the house and there's
the garage
so
um
there's another picture there's there's
all kinds of pictures here the existing
garage is 20
I don't know I think this one's gonna be
like a foot or two shorter than an
existed one I think that's important
that we know
um this is 19. that looks tall what's
there now but because of that grade
change it certainly helps right
so from an architectural perspective I I
do think that this um lot has
um
plenty of space for an oversized garage
I don't know that this is in the spirit
of what the new garage code was meant to
do in terms of reducing garage sizes in
comparison to existing house
particularly I'm not really okay
architecturally with the new deck that
comes off of it
um and that is part of this as well so
the here here's what I'm talking about
um I I think I go ahead and you've been
sworn in yeah why don't you go ahead and
describe the needs and the the
motivation for the single plan
he has submitted a rendering yeah and I
actually have copies this one of the
Dormer there that's yeah yes yes I've
already done all that yeah so
um it doesn't really change still the
right yes
um
we have
a lot of challenge one reason for the
oversized garage
um is we do have a lot of space we have
Neighbors on different locations where
like
where our existing garage is to the left
their house is further recessed back
um
and as it kind of looks back into us
there's like a little bit of a privacy
area of like he wants more privacy for
their lot we want more privacy for our
lot we already have a space where we
kind of could park on to the left of our
existing garage
um
and
uh so it proportionally it does fit as
far as for the lot
um the deck we're not married to like
it's not a major to do I mean we would
like to have access to go up where you
would be able to like
from working from home
um with offices with an office up there
you would have to be able to the ability
to walk out
um again it doesn't need to this is just
a
an initial drawing where you'd be able
to go out there and have a chair and if
you're on the phone
um I'd be happy to have a lot smaller I
also just like to have an external stare
up to it if possible but open to
um interpretation but uh
yeah really would like to have the space
to
Park three vehicles ideally inside and
then with
anyone who's got kids with bikes and
toys and everything else would really
help on top of that we've had a lot of
uh because of our oversized lot and a
lot of space with my vehicle being out
we have two vehicles that do sit out now
we are sitting duck for continuously
being broken into the vehicles
um so I'd really like to get the
vehicles inside the structure but um
yeah it's kind of the
basis of why I'm going for
the oversized garage sure
but I'm definitely open to interpret
like again this is
okay
um I I just want to say is there anyone
in the audience that wants to speak
about this application
no okay have you talked to your
neighbors about this have they seen it
yeah actually the neighbor right behind
me the guy that would actually be
closest to it he said he wanted to
actually come and testify tonight
because he was like when I saw this it
really made him excited because again
his email his house sits further back
the way the back of our house kitchen
looks and his house look even though
they're really far away there's a
vantage point so he was actually asking
me initially he's like if we could plant
something really big he's like can I pay
the plant he's like and then I saw your
garage design and actually he thought it
was actually going to go even further I
was like no
I'm already fighting how big it can get
so he actually wanted to go even further
over but we were
um but yeah all my neighbors actually my
neighbor to the east of me already had a
variance for a garage very similar to
this one they have a fairly good sized
garage
um two store full two-story garage uh my
neighbor to my West has a four car now
it's a single story but they have a four
car garage but it's attached to the
house it's very long very narrow
um but again everything is very there's
a lot of space between all of us uh
there's no structures housing anything
directly behind me it's like the
neighbor that's right behind me
um and then we also have a lot of trees
and a lot of
um like I took uh some some of the
photos show like from Merkel this would
not be visible at all because of all the
trees and
um
the standard lot size in this zoning
District
and this lot is actually 103 by 185
so it is almost twice
than
and as someone noted earlier we do have
a very long driveway back there so the
structure
as a you can see here is
very far removed back so
but it's 240 square feet larger than
what's allowed for this based on the
size of this lot and that's excluding
the deck the deck would be an additional
270 square feet
uh is there a board member that would
like to go first
one of their small things
um
we have a lot of challenges especially
similar with my height in my house I'm
constantly
uh with the Bungalow style house I did a
wonderful Edition
um
a year ago of Dormer Edition that I
tried to actually take some of the
finish off of
um but other than that we have a lot of
challenges with anything of any kind of
ceiling height on our second story so
having the finished space above for us
is it would be really ideal because with
the Dormer up there
um would allow us to have some some form
of normalcy of some rooms without
walking to the corner like this
continuously
um which would be pretty important to me
if we were able to get an office in a
workout room but like I know it's a just
a condition but that's another thing for
the style home we've had we've had the
real nice big Dormer Edition on the east
side
that got us our bedroom and bathroom but
um
so one thing about the staff from my
staff comments that I forgot to mention
is that and you reminded me it is a
really
um
really cool Bungalow house and the
garage doesn't have any of those kind of
characteristics like it it just has a
different style to it it would be it
would be really nice to see some of the
details of the house because it looks
like it's just it's Cedar I mean it's
nice design but it doesn't carry the
style of the house
a slight I mean the only thing it would
mimic would be
the east side
from a dormer perspective it would mimic
the East Side Dormer but I'm talking
about like in materials and
well the materials that we haven't
finished from the addition that we did a
year ago are that that all that shake is
which was approved is going where it's
all stuccoed in the lines and all that
all that shake is going in in there
that was from a previous that's already
been approved that just hasn't been
completed yet
so like those triangles of the Bungalow
on the front and this in the back and
it's already done on the back side but
those two there in the garage would be
um
those would be in the same exact
material
is that a slate roof it is
my garage too
no
the garage is the one the current garage
roof is like falling in so that kind of
like pushed this project a little bit we
had a massive tree limited so before
like reconstructing regrouping that's
where I kind of jumped let's kind of
jump this up but
I don't know if it would help some of
you if there's I think I have a photo of
the Dormer Edition that does have the
shake and stuff currently already on it
from one of my advantage points
in all those photos that you sent in the
photos yeah on the east side I'm just
gonna have to stop me when
um not yet
I think it's is it this one right there
right here it's uh that one right there
there's one right there yeah
there's the Dormer the big Dormer right
there yeah
[Music]
but it still sits on top of the brick
first floor
yeah it does yeah that's what I'm
talking about like the
the change in materials and the scale
yeah I did
um okay so is there a
um a board member that would like to go
first I can go
um
um so
it would be helpful if we knew the
existing height of your current garage
and it was compared to like what is
showing here
uh I mean from the drawings that I see I
feel like it's a whole nother like it
almost feels like a whole other house is
being built back there
um just because of the scale of it right
it's got like I understand it's it's
mainly a garage but at like when I look
at that site plan it's like half the
size of your current house and your
current house is you know it's pretty
has a good amount of square footage so I
don't know it's it's looking huge to me
uh definitely the deck is
uh not something that I think is
appropriate
um
and I agree that the detailing of the
materials
I get that you have Shake on your Dormer
and I think that's great and so I think
like it's appropriate for how you have
dormers on this and you have the shake
there but um I think perhaps you need to
think about what's happening at the
lower level of the garage so
I think those are my comments for right
now what would be your recommendation
for the lower portion right now Mike
just in garage has lap siding
um
yeah I don't know I mean maybe you don't
want to do brick
um
yeah because the bricks maybe it's never
matched because I've got like 19
different colors of brick on my house
yeah perfect
yeah yeah uh
I don't know because I can't I don't I
don't think I'm we aren't supposed to
like design it for you I'm just saying
that it uh that maybe it's just a change
in materiality maybe you bring back the
lap side of some sort but
um and then I I think like on the west
elevation like this board coming between
the two windows which I assume is
probably
it just seems weird right there that's
to mimic the existing house but you but
isn't that going away
when you it's not
what's happening
I'm trying to keep the architecture of
the existing house is this where we have
the stucco okay so that one side
uh I guess like which picture do I want
to look at it's hard to see the front
elevation of the house and the side has
has that okay yeah you're trying to it
hasn't okay yeah I see it on the front
Okay let me look at this picture here
bends on either side of the windows okay
uh okay then fine I take that back but
they're tighter right yeah they are
tighter there's more of them
so maybe it would look better if you had
more of them and it did actually mimic
right now
it yeah there's like
very little it looks like you would have
to add
like at least a couple more
two to two to three or four more to
mimic what is going on in that picture
that's your house right yeah but that
well that's that's your house that's the
front with the vertical lines right yeah
but again I guess
it's hard because
the siding has not been done on the
front of the house
yeah because you're putting Shake
yes and so what is happening with the
verticals those are going away okay so
then if those are going away then
this is yeah
I think you gotta like study it more
because uh I I mean I don't know we
don't your pictures don't reflect what
is hap going to currently happen to your
house right your your main house and
then we're seeing a garage with
different language that we don't know if
it's going to act like we're trying to
reference pictures that look like this
but that show like I don't know if
that's stucco with vertical pieces of
wood
I don't know I can't really
I don't know if it's I can't really say
whether or not the design is appropriate
so I'm I don't know that's where I'm at
uh Mr Scott
um so I'm gonna back up so right here
look that's exactly what I say on my
screen
the existing house you have a current
project that's been approved and you're
removing the vertical you're stucco
basically and putting in
um you're stripping on all that trim
work and then putting in uh Shake siding
Yeah final Shake signing uh it's uh the
cellular PVC products yeah that's to
mimic like uh can you have you've had
approval for them okay so that's going
to drastically change the character
because you know right I mean you're
leaving the brackets
yes and all the little trim work on your
fascia and your race all that stuff and
then you're
okay
yeah so interesting
I'm your current garages of 16 by nine
what's that approved on an M.A
application or a what which one the
fighting changes it doesn't need prior
approval what are those on
um it's been submitted
yeah I'm actually trying to pull it up
so I guess well you're looking so why
match it if it's going away then why
have any of it on the new garage
and I get you know unless you're keeping
some in the back what's that again
vertical if you're ripping the vertical
tutor s trim uh if that's coming off
your main house uh on some prior
approval which is unique
um why match why put it on the new
garage is my first question two your
existing garage though it's going to be
shorter based on what you're showing
into yeah it's one foot shorter yeah
which is I think a good thing because
your existing house is not very tall I
mean you know it might be uh measured it
doesn't have this vertical Cape you know
it's got a one-story filter this it's
really a Charming home and I love that
screened in porch on the front that's
kind of interesting anyway
um
I agree with Miss crossy I mean the the
additional garage is huge it's twice as
wide as your current one plus the deck I
could show you just
this is what it currently was improved
for
is that when you did the Edition yeah
oh okay
so it matches the
well when is all that happening
when is that getting that size it's been
a few years
we ran into a
massive
issue getting that siding because that
color was discontinued now I'm able to
get that color
but
due to production that was the color
that was put up we got enough of the
siding and we did it in phases as the
Dormer went up because I was going to be
like get the dorm or 100 started
completed we had a new child right at
the time and then as soon as we got the
signing I tried to get it but to get
they discontinued the shake product in
that so now I'm able to get the shade
product in that color I just have to pay
for a custom color to get them to do
that so that's the only reason we
haven't physically done just those two
triangles yet
so
um yeah that's
so okay there's some history there uh
so I don't see if you're if that's all
eventually can be honestly no reason why
you would want to match that because
your garage animal in anomaly to the
house because of this vertical trim is
is is
you're pulling from a detail that you're
getting rid of and if it was new it
would it's quirky it doesn't work right
matching what was done on this existing
house makes sense but uh by by itself I
would not recommend that so I don't like
your I don't I would look at those
windows and get rid of that trim work uh
but breaking up the the lower half and
the upper half I think is probably
appropriate
um I I think the garage is too big I
think the two 16 by nines you're looking
at 55 feet of
um
build with with the porch uh 104 with
lock so you're you know you're at 50
width of the back of the house uh it is
it is a sizable structure that the
deceiving thing here and I want to make
sure the board understands is the left
elevation the west elevation shows two
little Dormers kind of off the main
Gable but those Dormers actually drop
lower than what's being seen in that
elevation and they drop lower above the
garage because there's a low sloped roof
that's tying back to them because
they're set back and then you see that
detail a lot on the front of houses
index especially over porches because
they're trying to cram so much into
those or the porches are different depth
than the upper floors
um but that's not the detail that's
coming from the main house like that I
could find so it's it's a it's a little
bit new and I get why you're doing it
because you're trying to maximize the
Interior Space while also trying to not
um to break up at the elevation a bit
with matching the house so
um
in this current design and state the two
16 by nines with the deck uh I don't
think is enough for me a recommendation
for approval because I don't see I don't
see that this is adding to
I get the why I understand why as a
homeowner and having that space is is
pretty amazing but I think the reason
for the code uh we accepted to have an
exception to the code and this garage
code really needs to be an exception uh
for some sort of site condition or
hardship or some other aspect here and I
think it's this is size for size sake if
this was a 16x9 with an uh or 60 million
and an eight by eight on a hat like one
Bay garage it was a little shorter I
think that would be a easier sell for me
but I get also you're trying to maximize
your second floor
um I just as all of it together I see
it's too big for the site and I
I'm not I'm not sure that the the
existing design matches the the new
house it's a lot of shake siding all the
way through uh I would want to look at
other material I think brick would be
appropriate too but I understand that's
a cost issue so I'd be very
again the as far as the design of the
construct the structure I'd be more than
happy to go to like a lap siding change
I think that it would do a lot I
actually would make this shake actually
pop a little bit more for me but yeah
I'm not and I'm not a lap signing fan
but you know at some point it's
sometimes it's just too much shake so um
there's a North elevation
am I missing that it's just not there's
only two elevations yeah on the other I
think that's critical yeah I think we
would want to see what next time I think
it's pretty wooded I mean the back side
I mean obviously you'll see the the
you'll have the Dormer the back side of
the garage is never going to be visible
it will at night with the lights on with
all those windows
well and you have Windows on the other
side but they don't well I'm saying like
the whole first floor of the structure
will not be visible because there's 15
foot I I understand that but one of the
um one of the kind of
um Pros that you said was that your
neighbor would like to have privacy but
that those are going to be windows
a whole Bank of four of eight windows
that are lit up you have four Windows
yeah looking down looking down okay and
I worry we've talked about this a lot
where garages are approved uh and Zoning
is kind of exceeding some of them and
then it gets built and it's this like
ominous thing now these lots are much
larger in this area so and the
neighbor's house has a larger garage but
it matches almost identical to the to
the style of the house
I just I just can't get I don't I can't
get the support of this on the size of
this I think you know the overall
massing the architectural proportions I
think is nice right I think you in
itself right in how you detail it uh and
I a 15 by 14 second floor deck that also
is going to look down on your neighbors
that's a party deck right you're gonna
you could potentially have 20 people up
there you might not but you could it's a
huge debt I was actually drawn a little
bit big but yeah that's what we have so
yes no you know if if the stair was
internal I think that would probably be
a little bit better for me too uh more
supportive and if that was half that
size I'm not against having a small deck
up there for a cup of coffee or yeah but
but you know that you could that's
that's some pretty large attacks so I
especially at that back far of the lot
you're really going to be kind of
looking out over all your neighbors and
I think that's I couldn't support that
Mr Steele
I I agree with you it's massive I think
if there's a way to pull the stair
inside reducing the size of it
um
that would help but the only challenges
of going inside then takes away from
ability to get more than two cars in
there yeah but
I mean if we go if I shrink it back down
to a three Bay with the three Bay with a
man internal stair
then I'm down to two cars with a little
extra room plus a internal storage which
I'm again I'm open to interpretation
um
and again I'd be
I know it's not this isn't a zoning
thing it's also architectural but I'd
also be open to being able to like
shrink it down meet it architecturally
and meet kind of in the middle of like
again I'd have to get architectural
approval and Zoning approval but you
know instead of going 10 feet wider
because essentially this is wider 10
it's 24 foot deep so if you go 10 feet
wider
that's where it passed my
variance level
um if I could maybe get five feet or
something again if I could shrink it
down a little bit but
um
that's where I would probably
try to see if I can do an internal stair
with still being able to have three cars
you're saying three cars and maybe a
little bit of storage still massive
either way I think it would have to come
back what's been lines it showed all the
elevations in south and east as well and
I think you need some windows on the
first floor
someone was on the first floor at least
at least on the side so I mean it's yeah
all you have are the garage door windows
is on that space that's
so
an architectural recommendation I would
ask like if I go to reduce to stay
within the variance of like the 720
square feet
um if I were to do that
you still
I'm gonna take the deck off yeah I'm
good to swipe the deck that was
literally just a way to get Juliet
Balcony right yeah I feel like you're on
that was yeah it was literally just on a
nice day if you could just open the door
and be outside but
um
but no I'm I'm happy to do an internal
staircase to get up there again our our
biggest school we'd love to be able to
get three cars comfortably in there and
and function
um so we could we could kind of come up
with that but I guess
what's that
um just kind of maybe you know coming up
with a recommendation on
from the overall design so I could
I I don't have a problem with the the
character there's some details and
things I'd like to explore but overall I
think it's it's the right approach okay
um but yeah I think it's too big in the
next thing
okay
um we have variances for a reason we
really don't want garages bigger than
what our variances
um allow for so if you're going to ask
for a variance then you're going to have
to hit a lot of parameters for us
um the deck is a no we need to see um
all sides drawn
um all in all I think it's I don't I
mean you you could have it as you could
rent that that second story out as an
apartment the way it's drawn you've got
a full-fledged house that you're
building in your backyard so I can't
really get behind that but I also would
want to see where your neighbors
buildings are on their Lots because once
you put that second story on with the
windows you're looking over any six foot
fence and you're looking right down into
their um into their yard so
um I would say the way that it's drawn
and the amount of information we have
we're probably not
um You probably don't want us to vote on
it today but if you want to go back and
after they come comments that you've
heard and tried to come back in January
with a new drawing of a lot more
information
we've had too many garages that have
been built in Bexley where the Neighbors
at the end have been like what just
happened
um and so we're trying to be more
protective now that we aren't building
giant garages that are infringing over
top of fences onto the neighbors a lot
so
um so if you would like to come back in
January I think we can table this and
then you can bring us a lot more
information and actually that ARB cannot
table it because it's a recommendation
to the zoning board
so it's filed as a zoning application
they could reman background design and
review well he can ask for the applicant
could table but that's what I'm saying
is that if you want to ask for a table
you can come back in January and we can
review it again but
um uh there's I think there's got to be
a lot of changes and a lot more
information drawn
um showing the neighbors properties
how would you want me to I'd just like
you to show that the neighbor's garage
sits so far off of the line you would
like to know the distances I'd like to
know distances and what their what the
heights there's so much
well Shrubbery and trees and so much
in our whole between all the properties
that getting Vantage points but I can do
that but I can tell you those get cut
down very easily and so
um again we've approved things because
there's been trees that blocked it and
then as soon as the garage got built the
trees came down and now you know because
because you built the Second Story
Windows people want to look out of them
and now you're looking into your
neighbor's yard so
um this board is just being a lot more
protective of
the people around no I one question for
you guys would you be
more open or prone to no windows on the
back side so you're not looking down
yeah I mean I think you've heard all of
our comments so you need to just take
that and then um probably not maybe
taller ones maybe higher up higher up
Windows yeah yeah yeah it's going to be
considerative yeah yeah
when I come back to have as much
concerned yeah it was a little privacy
okay so we're gonna table this until uh
you're asking for a table right to the
January 12th meeting
um is there a board member that will
make a motion so moved Cross Key
second Steel
yes Mr Steele yes
yes
okay thank you Mr Burnett we will see
you back in January
okay the next application is uh
bzap22-43 the address is 157 North
Ardmore the applicant is Amy lauerhouse
the owner is Kyle and Ali Upchurch the
applicant is Seeking a recommendation to
visa for Architectural Review and
approval and a certificate of
appropriateness to convert a second a
section of the house from one story to
one and a half story expansion of the
front porch and change of the rear shed
roof
uh Karen will give us some background
all right this is another unusual case
where the side yard is the front yard
yes
on a smaller lot on Ardmore
um
so here let me move that up there's the
home right here and this is Ardmore
which would is up where the typical
front yards of all these phones are and
this is where the this home's front yard
is okay
um on the side
right
so this is a proposal to add a two one
and a half story a addition to make a
one and a half story Edition out of this
elevation which would be
um much more of appropriate Frontage for
Ardmore
um my concern with this project from a
design perspective I think it's in
conceptually absolutely fine
um my concern is how the two the the new
roof and the old roof line tie together
um I think that it is it's a little
awkward the way it is right now the
difference is that it's kind of like two
houses kind of shoved together and
personally I think that the this front
porch design which is going to be
redesigned from what it is now could
maybe become bigger in a way to hook the
two together I don't know what the right
answer is but they're they're I'm
looking for a better transition from
this roof to this
does that make sense we talked about
this all right
um let me have you sworn in okay
Amy lower house
yes
so yeah turkey house
um just a very simple Ranch in an area
that's almost exclusively two stories
um they want to add some additional
space to their house and it's a very
small lot the house is already
non-conforming which is why I need a
variance of a few inches here and there
literally
um so they decided to go up which I
think makes perfect sense um we're
trying to add a little bit of character
to the house especially since it's a
corner lot on that corner
um I really I tried to keep the addition
I didn't want to go full to story and
one story so I tried to keep it as low
as I could and still accomplish their
goals on the second floor when I was
looking at it the front porch That's
there now it looked super awkward with
the addition
um so what I did is the expanded porch
was not on their original scope of work
but I suggested it as a way to try to
balance those two pieces as well as the
back part that has a shed roof that was
a an obviously a former Edition at some
point
putting on a sloped roof on that back
part too to really try to make the house
a little bit more cohesive the middle
section it actually has a vaulted
ceiling on the inside so we don't want
to change that roof structure because we
they want to keep it as it is
as far as the materials
there's like a
faux brick on the base it's it's not
even
like thin brick it's like
wallpaper I don't know for lack of a
better word someone was trying to you
know make a little bit of an improvement
but we're going with a base of cultured
stone
um to try to give a little bit more
texture to the house
wallpaper
yes
who would like to go first
Mr Scott I'm sorry
I had to stand sorry
wow
um who would have thought you know
simple rectangular house with single red
gable roof would be
a challenge
um
so overall I think the masking strategy
and the way you've done your roofs in
general is is
seems balanced right I think you're
obviously having a second story to some
story so you're trying to figure out any
balancing it I think
for me it's in the it's the in the
connections of those especially on the
west elevation if you would be so kind
for your your smallest
um
little sun room is is projecting into
the break of the roof above it and I say
I know you know this because you drew it
yeah I know you were like scratched
right there yep yep right there yep nope
up yeah right there
yeah zoom in is that possible yep so
they see how that right you're
intersecting the yes not even the trim
of it is actually right into the right
halfway up the rake board yeah is there
any way you can lower the smaller
um yeah I could I think if we did a
cathedral in there well yeah I'm sure
yeah I mean it's a small room it's
there's not a really a cost implication
yeah you're not gonna it's not gonna
look right we have to we have to cut you
know basically have to cut down the wall
then because right now I have it at the
existing rafter bearing but yeah I
didn't want to make it even because then
the flush didn't look good either so
there has two on that oh yeah because
that would really stick out far yes yes
step back and it might be weird yeah it
was weird I looked at it is that the
existing overhangling there's all those
overhangs seem really deep
yes
um so
my if you go back to the pictures
um the existing overhang and I'm just
matching that it is a fairly deep
overhang yep
yeah I would I would highly recommend it
if they want that to be a game over the
sunroom is to drop it below because
because it's also really deep
so the challenge is even if you drop it
to alignment you're you're basically
putting a roof right under a soffit of
another which is really hard to build
yeah it's it's easier to flash than
having like one piece of siding there
what about cutting off the long
overhangs on the sun room shortening
them up and actually raising them up and
tying into things
I think from the front side the north
well the north side it looks weird I I
looked at that that was actually my
first thought yeah yeah it looks weird I
think it's a challenge because I don't
think can I get it yeah I see that there
I I you can't intersect them so you're
gonna have to figure out a way to to
lower that roof yeah
the other thing that
jumps out is the this porch
um I I appreciate because I think the
existing porch is extremely quirky it's
high it's barely put down a bag of
groceries open your door so having a
larger porch is a great idea
um
I think for me it's it's it's the
balance of it the door the position of
the door and where the two-story Edition
is that line almost is lined up
perfectly and it seems a little odd to
me you're the the detailing in your
Gable of the porch seems a little off
from the rest of the style of the house
and I get you're trying to give a little
bit of that character so I appreciate
you moving and it's probably probably
fine it just seems a little off
um
it's just one of these anomalies there's
so many different things happening on
this house it just it I think it's
probably much more balanced than it was
just the single little Gibson oh yes I
appreciate that effort and I was and as
I thought about this is like is there
another way to do a shed roof and change
that and it just makes the roofs even
more complicated yeah I think your
solution is right
the proportion of the Dormers
on the main roof also don't feel right
to me and I get it you're lining up with
the window with single existing window
right yes you're going to leave that and
everything else is going to align yeah
and I don't know if that's the well if
that's the right way to do it
um
other than like sketching over and
thinking about it for hours
um and I'm sure you have did you
consider any other
Dormer Styles or ways to know you want
to break that hard line of that second
floor Ed software or fascia excuse me
but uh
it just seems it just seems a little all
compared to the rest of the house
um yeah I did I looked at a single
window but then I thought it looked too
skinny and then the window proportion
wasn't the same as all the tall thin
Windows it there's just so much
happening on this house like the sun
room on the other end has double lungs
and but I can't put double hungs up
there because then I don't need egress
and
um we're trying to get this yeah this
evolution is is better even though those
taller Windows above the
a shorter type Windows below seems a
little odd to me the proportion of the
masking is you have this non wallpaper
Stone base exciting
um
that feels a lot better to me but I
think I'm not convinced that those
window proportions on that facade the
East facade is right if the top one's
field two if you want a larger window
there maybe it's a combination of the of
the little ones with maybe a transom or
some sort of other detail not a plating
window but something that's gives you a
little bit bigger feel but it's kind of
in the style or the flavor of the longer
windows but those are new so you're just
trying to match existing Windows yes so
you're taking the one window yes and
you're just repeating it around well yes
I mean yes and no I'm just take trying
to keep the same proportion even when
the upper windows are bigger okay and
you know again I kind of yeah yeah it's
it's better I don't have any I mean I
think it's overall I think it's it's
definitely an improvement I think it's
it's fairly well balanced and that one
uh so it was the South elevation maybe
uh seems a little bit and would like you
to continue to think about uh no no
North that was that was okay okay that
one uh and I think it's it's close I
think it's it's not not bad um
yeah maybe maybe did you think about
just putting a shed roof all these all
these people it would just kind of um no
I'm I'm happy to look at it yeah that's
it so yeah that in the in the uh the
roof on the sunroom is really all I have
okay okay
the more you look at it the more you
dive into the yeah
yes believe me I know keep that roof
line in the shed I mean you already have
so much yeah well it may it may simplify
the Dormers a little bit and then you
know have a little bit more focus on the
porch as the single Gable on that facade
yeah okay okay thank you
Mr Steele
I like going after you say
yes exactly
um I agree I think I think a shed would
be useful there I think it would add a
little more interest to the East
Elevation than to
um
it's going to be tricky the the sun room
and with those
massive Gables and extensions on the
eu's it's I mean there's not gonna be a
lot of sun coming in the sunroom anyway
so yeah well and I you know you can see
in that in the north elevation I will
probably have to well I know I will I'm
gonna have to shorten the eaves if
if we lower that roof to be able to get
it above the windows that are already
there but I I still think that will work
fine
I mean that's yeah just working with
Karen to yeah hone it in but it's it's
an improvements
going the extra step with the detail on
the foundation stuff too is awesome so
thank you
um so I actually live down the street
from them oh okay yep I live on Ardmore
at 54. and so I'm like super excited for
them I don't know them as neighbors but
I'm super excited that they're choosing
to do this uh you know the updates the
renovation to their home
um I agree with all the other comments
that are stated I also think a shed
Dormer might be better so I would
explore that might help with like the
windows up there on both sides and you
know perhaps it helps add more to the
one side that looks a little weird with
the one Dormer
um I think that the only other thing I
want to bring up is on the south
elevation
um you're stopping where that new stone
veneer is yes is there a reason for that
because I sort of feel like you've
carried it around the other side of that
elevation but why are you not carrying
it around uh on the south elevation of
that you know Central piece that's
staying it's it's just Mr cost thing
okay trying to you know that that main
new piece is visible from Ardmore and
from yeah
Denver Denver
um so you know trying to be as cost
efficient as possible while getting the
most bang for my buck on the visible
Parts yeah
um maybe consider it as an alternate
for the homeowner it just would I think
it would tie really nicely around the
whole building or around the whole house
especially because uh you know the look
of stick embrick yeah I think even they
probably agree is not so great so yes
they do
um yeah I just think it would help tie
the whole house together and so it won't
look like that was an accident right
right right so
um other than that work on the details
uh make sure your columns you know are
reflective of what would be nice in the
area not the box like so just basically
matching what they already have oh yeah
we're kind of just taking the roof off
what's there and adding adding on I
guess I haven't noticed that could be as
economical as possible okay uh okay well
work with Karen yeah but I you know I'm
excited for them how great like yeah
those are half bucks yeah yeah so
they're small they're skinny yeah yeah
yeah well and I think I I'm hoping my
goal is to fix what I think is wrong
with that porch which is the roof is too
heavy the um it just the rake sticks out
too far it's just a little bit hulking
so I think with the longer wider porch
and and I'm not gonna do as deep of a
rake that will fix that problem and I
really do do things changing that to a
shed is going to solve the problem yeah
okay that's an easy change and we'll
compete nothing else will compete with
the Gable yeah yeah
thank you
okay so for me a ranch house is low and
long
and so you almost just need to embrace
that
so I think that by making the Dormers
long and low matches exactly what the
house is already doing
um
I was I almost feel like the porch is
still too squatty is it possible that
the porch can go all the way along that
section of the house
I could certainly look at that I mean we
don't want to go so wide that the ridge
goes above the ridge of the other piece
and I was trying to line you know line
up the pattern of the window with the
columns to kind of create a
because the two columns on either side
of the door are existing
so then I kind of mirrored that on the
other side around the window to create
this it feels like too many columns
though honestly it feels like it wants
two columns instead of four to me and
that I think it's it's over columned so
I don't know I I got I I would try to
accentuate the length of the porch and
see if you can go all the way across
maybe even shift to the peak so that
it's
um more over to the center of that space
um just again to try to lengthen that
out
um
and then is it possible to raise the
stone a little bit like one course
higher on the big part of the house just
so that it feels proportionate
so the lower part too I can look at that
today I would help break up that big
wall that
you don't see on the on the old part of
the house okay
that's all I have
okay so um I think we want to see this
back
yes okay is that okay I I mean I'm happy
to work with uh because I'll be going to
the bza for the minor um adjustments I'm
happy to work with you to prepare those
before that meeting that's true this is
a recommendation so I I would suggest
that we not table this that we either
send it as a recommendation with a
request that would be remanded back here
or work with me but not table because I
would mess up Amy's schedule for going
right to bzap and that is one shot not
in December yes but there is not one in
December that's the reason you have a
big agenda today I'm comfortable with
um it coming to me but I'm also totally
understanding if you want it it's only
it's only a few weeks different so if
you want to remanded back here it's the
board's decision but yes on a table is
everybody okay with that recommended
he's Afroman what date is that this
January
12th oh January okay never mind I was
thinking December okay no that's good
there's nothing in December
then or yes we need to make a
recommendation to findings
the findings in fact the decision of the
board for application number
bzap-22-43 property located at 157 North
Ardmore the architecture review board
moves to recommend to the bza with the
romance back to the ardu for final
determination of a certificate of
appropriateness
for the one and a half story
modification should be existing
one-story principle structure
okay so that that's I think that's like
a whole month
later that's over a month because we're
recessed and yeah okay
you don't really don't meet in December
no I know
because I know that's what I'm thinking
the ARB meeting won't be till mid
January January 12th is our next meeting
okay come on are you sure you don't sure
we're sure
Karen can explain to the zoning board
whatever record you know comments were
carried through if there's any design
modifications okay now and then
I mean I I feel you Amy but it is my
experience that once Thanksgiving and
Christmas comes like oh yeah it really
never is actually a problem yeah people
you know January comes like that so
okay
okay so is there a board member that
will make a motion so moved Cross Key
second steal
yes Mr Scott yes yes
all right thank you see you back in
January all righty
okay our uh other business
is application number ARB 22-53 the
address is
2010 East Broad Street the applicant is
Brent Foley and Rachel Hill the owner is
the Catholic Diocese of Columbus the
applicant is seeking architecture review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a change to the
original approved design
okay okay
so
this application is before us because
there has been a change during the
construction process of an originally
approved design
um it kind of happened in phases so this
is not
um
I just want to just put it out there
it's not meant to be a reprimanding
session or anything it is what it is we
um stumbled across not stumbled but yeah
I guess kind of stumbled across
um a difference in what was originally
approved
um
um with Brent's leadership St Charles
was very respectful of stopping where
they were on that particular portion we
have not done a structural
um inspection isn't that right Kathy on
that part because
we all agreed that what is there
um is just not gonna look right
um there I'm gonna actually let Brent
explain it but
um
I
think I'd have pictures in here
so
this
so basically I'm just going to explain
it what has happened the original
Colonnade was supposed to just
seamlessly turn into the new Colonnade
yeah yes I do
um
this is the original rendering right
here so all the tops that everything
just seamlessly
um went around
when we went out to the site we realized
there was a grading problem that Brent's
going to talk about during construction
and
they are now on two different levels
um
and I'll pull up pictures as we
um Okay let's listen let's go ahead and
swear him in and let him explain yeah
please state your name Brett Foley I
can't do all this can't do this from the
time you're about to give this evening
is the truth sure thank you thank you
well thank you guys for sticking in with
us tonight I know it's late
always it's always okay to be in front
of you guys and we really appreciate the
partnership we've gotten through
everything so far uh there is a couple
factors and that have led us here uh and
I just first want to apologize for any
of the miscommunications that got us
here but we're here and we're excited to
work through it with you guys we know
we'll be able to get through it
um there the if you remember this
application we came in with an initial
initial submission we got budgets we
came back there was a series of
revisions uh one of those revisions was
a lowering of the overall Building
height
uh in our original submissions we had
renderings as we showed where those
those arches were meeting uh in that way
uh as the overall Building height
lowered
um you can see the this what we call the
sister arches next to the main the next
the main entrance of the new building
also got lowered which made the
proportions of how those arches hit into
that side there lower which brought that
whole thing down uh we actually an
elevation showed that in the revised
submissions what we neglected to provide
uh and we should have provided was a 3D
image that kind of showed how that was
all going to work
also adding to that
this rendering shows it a little bit is
you can see the with a Walter common
entrances on the right there we're about
two to two and a half feet higher there
than we are as we come down and so the
new building uh and there's images of
the front of the Bill of the front of
the existing School the antennas
actually to meet
um the arch height that matches that
front so we're trying to mimic that
exact same height so as we come down two
and a half feet uh obviously those
arches get lower what they did on the
Walter Commons was they they set a datum
Point uh up top where they kept that
Arch and they created a rusticated base
so as you go left down that ramp those
columns get tall and actually
architectonically a little bit too tall
so we were trying to avoid that that's
kind of how we got where we got I've got
some additional things that I'm going to
ask for back because these show future
phases that aren't uh yet actually
wanting to be submitted but we thought
they'd be helpful for for showing and
where this is going I can pass one to
each side
it starts a little farther out and comes
a little closer in but what it shows is
remember
um when we were talking about the master
plan phase way way back there are the
there's the colonnade in the front the
wings of the building and the colony of
the front that creates the the main
Courtyard of the building the intent is
that uh this Courtyard that will be
outside of the Walter Commons will be
the the sister to that courtyard right
the idea being that the colonnade there
you go shows it right there will work
its way all the way around
and so you can see in those renderings
what we're doing
hopefully is extending that Colonnade
around to the South Side to create an
enclosed Courtyard uh that Colonnade
will have arches that match the height
of the Arches on the front of the
building and then there's kind of a
stepping down uh gradually through kind
of uh some curves and steps are these in
the same yeah do the same thing I just
kind of did them at both ends so you
guys could have have some copies
um and that's kind of that illustrates
kind of how that grade changes that that
courtyard is still a little bit in
design we're working through funding on
that we're not trying to get those
arches approved yet uh that that
rendering also shows would have had this
earlier if I use Mr steel maybe for
rendering Services we could have got
there
um
them up
that uh it also shows
um I lost my trains thought oh I'm sorry
sorry the the uh Learning Resource
Center which was approved uh by Casey
for my team came in here a few months
back uh on that as well so yeah this is
a great picture here that shows how
those arches become so much taller as
you go that direction that part of it
has actually been removed the new
building basically to the far right of
where the the tunnel is is where we're
lining up now
um but you can see how much taller the
Arches had become this Arch and end has
all been removed already correct this
was new construction and you took it out
no no this was the this was the existing
that was removed uh to facilitate the
new concern in the new okay correct
correct and so what we've done to try to
facilitate a uh kind of a compromised
approach that'll that'll make all this
work uh is we have taken the language
from the front of the building uh where
you have the the main entrance and kind
of put that in the corner where the two
interact to create a language oh that's
the lrc there yeah that um
maybe you can do the the submission the
submission 3D View
there you go yeah so the the piece in
the corner there is intended to kind of
mimic that front entrance
um and I think the most recent version
actually you can see that we actually
brought it to be parapeted in front how
long is that one yeah
this at the beginning
no oh yeah no that's not what are we
looking for I'm sorry for the precedent
image there it is there it is so that is
what it's going to look like in the
corner there and so the interaction of
how that lower section meets that on the
side is exactly what we're mimicking for
the new portion of construction on this
side yes correct and then the other side
comes towards you
um and we'll have kind of a uh cricketed
roof scenario there to drive drive water
and make it flash almost like a almost
like a where you'd have a Timmy coming
up so that's the basic basic idea of
what we're proposing uh Jim Lauer from
the school is here Casey through my team
is here and Jim Negron from corner
closing is here they could answer any
specific questions that I might not be
answering be able to answer but um
that's where we're going and that's what
we're asking for to be able to move
forward with today
thank you is there anyone else in the
audience that wants to speak about the
application
you don't have to do anything
you might have he never does yeah
good job Karen is kind of explaining how
we got there yeah
um I was looking to see if I had photos
of on-site now but it doesn't really
matter and Karen and and Kathy and I all
kind of met on site to look at this
we've been we've been we've met we've
talked a lot about this
um you know and I think it's kind of
when the building was lowered
yes you could see that the elevations
are in two separate pages so there's
really was without a rendering or some
kind of axonometric there was no
understanding of how these arches would
not meet anymore I think we all agree
that just to leave it like it is is not
a good solution
um so this the only problem I see well
there's a couple problems but the
biggest problem I see with this solution
that has been presented today is that
I'm not really clear how I'd like to see
a roof plan because I don't really
understand how the roofs will cleanly
tie together
flashed and you know a couple little
technical parts we have yeah I'm also
concerned about where the arch gets cut
off here because it kind of looks like
the new Colonnade will come here right
uh it's it's it's kind of hitting closer
in the middle yeah okay well that makes
me feel a little bit so we've we've
we've kind of tried to make it like an
ELD condition if you will so you've got
kind of a Colonnade hitting a Colonnade
and then the the new
um
taller arches is proud of the other
Colonnade as well to kind of create a
situation where it's you've got a series
of L's coming together
so I think conceptually it makes sense
um that the idea
of putting that transition Archway ahead
of you know Gable piece I just don't
understand at all how it gets connected
there yet
um I would be remiss if I didn't because
I promised him I would
um obviously they'll hire his very
passionate about this project who could
not be here because of the hurricane and
he had to leave early for a meeting
which is a sad point but I did um want
to express his concern he was not
comfortable with this solution yet the
way it is or maybe ever I don't know but
he suggested that you might want to look
at a parapet building up a parapet that
that matches the eve of the existing and
just putting a
a kind of a fake glass
um
Arch and that could hide Mechanicals as
well I'm probably not I'm not describing
it sure I understand yeah but I think
his he he wanted the opportunity to
express another
another solution sure
which kind of makes sense to build up a
parapet straight from there like a fake
facade if I'm understanding correctly
it's a parapet on top of the Arches or
behind in front and making the Arches
read redoing them to match the existing
the Pinnacle of the arch tools match the
existing God is it so you have to raise
up the pear pit of that wall right of
the connection the challenge we have
with that if you if you look at the the
right sister
there
um of the our new entrance we call them
the sister arches on either side of the
uh the main Arch the where that uh the
bottom of that roof is if that shed roof
moves up higher
you've got it flashing you've got like
you got to look like it doesn't actually
it doesn't actually work and you end up
with it is it touching yeah
I'm reminded of the flat roof
application we had a few minutes back
where you end up with like
yeah we have a resident that is probably
dealing with a similar thing
that led us to trying to keep it lower
so it say it stays both kind of
architecturally secondary to the main
entrance of the of the new building and
then avoids yeah and even more
complicated flashing situation not there
yeah that's that's what led us down yeah
I think and I think I mean I I heard
that and and some of the writings
and I think you're going to be raising
up the Arches which is you you said
earlier they may get Too Tall yeah as
your base is dropped
um
I think my
question is this this kind of slamming
the mini tower um the precedent I get it
into the corner and like it's getting
cut off because it's ramming into the
other uh Colonnade and then at the
corner
um and I'm sure there's no precedent for
this
um but it just seems like it's it's
pushed in too much and I'm sure that's
the spacing of the colonnade and how
they interact but is there an
opportunity for that thing to
like be an object that is is is is
rotated or changed to address the corner
and allow
the two separate colonies so it's it's
like it breaks its press and breaks the
traditional things but you're rotating
that whole Gable mass in that corner and
I don't know if it fit
um but the idea is that it's it's
something a little different to allow
the dynamic between the two Heights and
the change to step down uh that allows
them yeah now it doesn't it's it works
if you remove the light gray out that
caps the end of that right it works and
there's precedent and it's it works
great when it the other when you
introduce the existing it it it's just
to me it's too intersective it's too
much so I don't know if I don't know if
it's getting it thinner and making it we
tried to we tried to narrow the yard it
became it proportions don't work it
became yeah the proportions became even
worse yeah the elevation View and I
think overall I mean we can argue about
the height and yeah this the the the
slenderness of the columns but I in the
end I that doesn't bother me as much
it's because the
is interrupted and it's not able to
finish and where it's not finished
in a way that makes sense to me it's
just kind of like the models are
intersected and we ran out of space so I
wonder how you might fix that I don't
know yeah so I mean with an octagon type
sure
the idea of me just simply rotating it
is and I'm not sure that works even and
because they're looking at the planets
it doesn't look like well it may be what
might work some sort of other shapes
simplifying it is just making it almost
a box even that doesn't have an arch but
actually has maybe more of a traditional
maybe it's a little bit more of a tower
there yeah yeah
I just I think you if you're going to
intersect something like that maybe it's
a little taller and it's become
something else and allows that to break
and see you know we know that there's a
change we know we're dealing with this
and we're not trying to type together
anymore we're going to allow this object
to break right so the the notion of it
being a node where they change I think
is kind of everybody's on board with
right what that note is right is where I
and I don't want to design I think the
idea of it is is solid though yeah and
there's some elements like the band that
at least in the first rendering this is
at the same
that it's not on the transition piece at
all but you could use that to
I don't know the answer but I think that
making a note of some kind I just
something is wrong with what it is right
now you just want the left and the right
side to intersect it similarly yeah yeah
that's the problem
um I think you start with the box right
yeah back and take the arch out in the
big arch and then you say okay but it's
almost if it had a flat roof even or a
hip roof like Jocelyn was starting you
know maybe it's a little bit of a more
of a tower I don't you know I think
you'd have to explore that but it does
need to pop up more because it's weird
how the right hand side is like
intercepting the face of that yeah
because it wants to be like taller
I guess I would question like like this
is showing me that there's no Arch here
but that is showing me that you're
keeping an arch there yeah which one is
it it's this that that's a rendering
Challenge from yeah okay so
keeping that Arch then yes it needs to
be something that pops up more
perhaps I mean you already sort of have
like almost like you have truncated hits
right in these little Corners right
there so it's almost like you would be
completing something in that point yeah
maybe it's maybe maybe it is
experience it grabs the back side of the
existing Colony something different than
what that is definitely taller so that's
two sides are not and more money for the
project I think you're on the right yeah
I think that's the answer is some kind
of an object transition piece
um we're also of course trying to
balance cost and
um time
no no doubt and so
to to move it
forward
uh we'd of course would like to continue
with
you know what I'm hearing is every to
the left of the node everybody's kind of
good with where we're going if we get
the node right so I want to continue
with building sheathing getting that
portion built
um and and then figuring out what the
node is to to minimize things and so how
do we
what's everybody's thoughts on how we
move forward because Paul's in your
court for how much time how quickly you
can get uh
a design you know I don't have to come
back and tell Daniel I don't want to
wait till no no I mean I think well we
may circulate we may have to make an
exception from that because of the
construction stage very special meeting
or even if or even like we did with the
lrc where there were some yeah via
emails I would love that because if you
recall for the lrc there were some
questions about the back sections and
what we did is we shared some things and
you guys marked some things back up and
we kind of worked for it that way
because she's sharing that um that would
be great if we could if we could proceed
in that fashion so we don't have to come
back I think we can I mean I just you
know I just don't want to underestimate
the importance of this because that is
going to be a major Gathering your major
Gathering space
a hub to how people come in and out of
it looks like it's not a mistake yeah
and this will look like a mistake how it
is right now
yeah
okay so
um you would like it to go back to Karen
that you can work out the details with
her and then when you pass things on to
her she will forward them on to us we
will individually give her some some
feedback how everybody's comfortable
focus on the timing of the year and the
special circumstances for me on your
construction stage and keeping things
moving forward we're not going to stop
construction for two months that's
ridiculous but if you can quickly come
up with some solutions certain ideas
we'll be happy to
do a weekend
we really could share it at the January
12th meeting no I think this is allows
you need to make sure it's public
now you can come see it well I think
what Kathy means and I think she's
exactly right give an update on the
record for the public
um you know that's that's archived on
the on our on our website
just as an update even if it's after
it's already built yeah yeah and I think
that what's helping here is there
actually could be some simplification to
it yeah
um that may help maybe it's simple bass
but then yeah there's a little bit of
moment yeah exactly something that sits
on top of a very simple yeah again not
to spend a little money but something
that creates that little bit of a tower
in that corner which also calls up a lot
of that entrance in that Corners could
help you
I'm good with that approach you guys are
okay so
um do you want to read the findings of
fact then
I got it
it's a pro and then you want these back
right findings are back yes those are
not Precision of the board for
application number
8-22-53 for property located in 2010
East Broad Street the architecture
review board finds the modifications to
the Colonnade connection
[Music]
is
approved subject to
final design details are worked out with
the design consultant and the final
design yeah can you take out details
they're not just details it's a final
design final design yeah subject to uh
approval by the design consultant and
shared to the record at the January 12th
meeting
well
it it also needs to be in there that
it's going to be shared with the board
members with board approval with
reviewed by board members
just that's just something that that's
happening
your decision and if it can't be
resolved then it comes back in January
but it's our hope that you'll be able to
work out the final design approval on
the modifications you got rules and
friends that you got to follow them so I
understand yeah
you don't want to end up with Sunshine
so final design yes
we'll see Charles
I'm the least educated person to hear
about this stuff but you still need to
be sworn in
what is the timeline you're trying to
recommend to our design team to give to
you because again as Mr Negron said
we would we like to continue with the
construction and my hope is again these
people will work 24 hours a day to get
something to that's why I said the ball
is in their court if they have a design
to me tomorrow I'll forward it
immediately to board members or fast
track we're fast
you guys work and get it to me I get it
immediately yeah and then again if
there's any modification again that
continual back and forth knowing again
that we need to make some type of
uh public recognition in January that
this has been approved and addressed
right thank you that's my question yep
thank you all thank you
okay so we have a motion
anybody want to make this accept that
motion
you need a motion so moved Steel
seconded croskey
and I will call the vote vote Mr Steele
yes Miss croskey yes Mr Scott yes Madam
attorney yes
okay you are approved
thank you thank you thanks for being
patients
okay so um uh um we have two more things
on the agenda but I think we're gonna do
one which is the design guidelines
um oh really all I really want is a is
just a vote to recommend the adoption of
design guidelines by this board to city
council
um mayor Kessler is drafting the first
reading this is this will go on for a
couple months because it has to have
first reading second reading Kathy can
explain it better than me The Liberation
and we will continue to update design
guidelines I have all of your comments
almost completed had we not had 14 cases
today you would have had a fresh new
copy today but you'll get that next week
um the fact that you approve this
doesn't make any difference that we're
still working on it it's just a
recommendation so that we can get it
moved to city council to get it formally
adopted
so I just need a motion
so moved
seconded kraske
oh yeah Scott Scott and croskey
and I will call the roll
Mr Steele yes Mr Scott yes Miss croskey
yes Tony yes
and uh a question about that then too as
it's being
uh deliberated during the city council
meeting should one of the board members
be there to answer questions each
when it comes to the discussion yes and
not only that we're going to work on so
as part of the process yes I do think so
I mean you would probably be appropriate
as the chairperson
um when when this when the first reading
nothing will happen
um but we also really want to think
about
um for presentations to certain groups
like I know that the Architects that and
designers that often present to us would
like the opportunity to read it and
comment which I think is appropriate
um I know Amy mentioned it and Pete
Foster and these are people who do come
in front of our board a lot but are also
residents and so I don't know we'd like
to have some public forums they don't
have I mean it could just be one big
open one or it could be small groups but
those are the kind of things we're going
to be working through from now until
probably January when it's end of
January middle January when it's packed
when it's adopted and Council may even
direct that yeah exactly for the public
hearing but I totally agree with you we
should have anybody any I would
encourage all of you anybody that wants
to come
um in case there's any questions about
how so will you just send it out to the
group then of when the meetings are and
what to expect whether we should be
there at the beginning or the end or
whatever that would be helpful and then
um those of us that can go will go and
if you can just reply to the group and
tell us who if you're going just so that
we know whether someone's going or no
one's going
um and then we'll be there to answer
questions or you know have a discussion
about it or whatever so yeah just so you
know like the city council process Kathy
can talk to it much better than me
because I don't go to very many of them
at all actually I don't go to a very I
don't really go to them
um but it's a long process this is not
like it's going to go next week and yeah
like our solar panel thing just got
approved that's it just got approved
yeah they literally discussed every
aspect of it and in the end they really
listen to our concerns and
um I think they came up
were there any changes to it yeah minor
regarding uh in response to your
comments for uh freestanding yeah yes
yes we lowered the height they made more
parameters basically based on our
uh recommendations and so I think it
ended up being good yeah I think this
board can feel really good about it
because what they focused on is what
your comments were which so basically
the end result was that no 10 foot
ground mounted panels they're six foot
is the limit and it's at staff
discretion to
um require screening if needed they
don't really want to put a blanket
screening requirement because every
property is different and some already
have six foot fences but if Kathy or I
in the review feel that screening is
necessary will require it and and if if
they don't want to agree with what we're
telling them to do then they can go to
the architecture review board then it
becomes your problem
will have the reading and then they'll
have a public hearing and they need to
delay it they can always table it until
that third reading
so I'll keep you posted on the timeline
but this is I I know I promised you a
new Fresh draft with all of your
comments but you can see what happened
to me yeah I mean it's almost 10 o'clock
yeah so okay um the other the last thing
I just wanted to say is we're going to
delay the Commonwealth Follies I think
you know with some sadness on the part
of Ellen and Ben because they would have
liked to but look at them they're
it was not meant for final approval
anyway right now but take a look and if
you have anything yeah interested in
feedback because they're really trying
to replace the existing uh Portage on
and Screen the utilities that are there
really to be beautiful
okay we're adjourned
thanks John
um