to be a board committee or commission of
a city um
it's you have some kind of unique
aspects to that and this is our very
first
minute of the very first meeting of a
brand new
bexley city board um
so before we kind of go into that let's
just do a round of introductions i'm not
sure that everybody has been in the same
room per se at once so um i'll just kind
of call on who i see in the grid becky
you want to start
sure so um hello i'm becky guzman
i um professionally i'm a public
defender
i've been with the public defender's
office over 20 years
i was in the municipal division for 19
and
just a few months ago switched over to
our juvenile unit
um i grew up in bexley
i'm raising third generation bexley
people um
girls women whatever and um
i have um been an active member of the
community
in various ways so thank you
thank you becky tiffany
hello my name is tiffany hunt i
work for nationwide i run business
transformation
office optics which i've been doing
uh for about the last 25 years
started uh and i gave my background
before but it started off as an engineer
and then moved into business
transformation consulting work and so
that's similarly what i do now
i have been in bexley for 10 years which
is about the
the exact amount of time that i've been
in columbus i moved to columbus ohio for
work and i've been in bexley that full
time
i love the community my daughter goes to
csg
and so and i'm super excited to be part
of this uh
board thank you tiffany
glenn thank you mayor
uh my name is glenn soden i'm an
attorney
we've been back to residents for 42
years both in south bexley and central
bexley
ray's two daughters here and
one's a dentist just outside on harding
so
we still have connectivity
i've spent years in
uh corporate law i've been a plaintiff's
attorney i've been a defendant's
attorney
most of my career has been involved in
corporate governance and
public relations uh consumer affairs
and government relations uh and in the
last 10 years i've been teaching
business ethics to students so
um i'm just to work with everyone here
and i look forward to our dialogue
thank you glenn uh brian
hello this is uh brian drury um i work
at
nationwide insurance in our procurement
area i've been involved in the community
in various aspects i've said on a lot of
community boards
um currently i'm sitting on three
different ones
and you know i've been part of this
group the original group from there back
when it was founded and
look forward to working with everybody
in the group
thank you brian lee hi
i'm lee nathan's at 55 south remington
road i've lived at this
residence since 1984
and um my current profession
is in the health insurance i
am a registered health underwriter
with the call insurance agency at
broaden high
i'm the past president of both columbus
and the ohio association of health
underwriters but my background is in
public administration
and particularly with regard to the
administration of justice and police
administration um i've
served in bexley uh with
the police community advisory committee
i've also been a member of the
civil service commission and
was selected as citizen of the year in
2018.
thanks so much lee um
so you know i know that i've spoken with
you guys all and
i'm sorry mark mark mark mark
oh it's okay i'm the city law director
i've been in that
position five or six six years i think
um i've been
living in bexley since 1989 we raised
two kids in bexley
who one of whom still lives in bexley
and one whom does not
um but in my private practice
because uh the law director thinks
supposedly part-time but in my private
practice
i represent a lot of cities and counties
throughout the state of ohio
and have worked um with uh
or on the other side of the table and
collect bargaining with
um various unions including the fop and
other police unions so
um i i think maybe i bring a little bit
of that part of the process to this
table
although i am far from a decision maker
i'm just here to help
thank you mark um so
i've obviously talked to all of you guys
individually about our citizen review
board
and about what i believe to be
the importance of the board and how it
is especially in today's modern
environment critical
as a tool for accountability and
transparency of our city operations
one of the things that's a little bit
unique about the citizen review board
is it um covers
complaints across every single city
agency not just
the police department it's commonly a
tool for police departments
um you know the city of bexley provides
services beyond policing that are
prone to error prone to bias prone to
um when i say prone i mean open to have
have the capacity to
uh result in in inequitable situations
or
even just service or impropriety i mean
so this so anything that
is reviewed by the crb goes beyond just
um bias or racist allegations but goes
to
um improper service
even and potentially you know
i think in mark correct me if i'm wrong
but a rudeness
or i mean just all it could it could
really span a whole
a whole uh range of activity on the part
of employees that might
result in complaints and so just like an
example of some of the complaints
that we have received over the past few
years
have ranged from a complaint
regarding code enforcement and
feeling that code enforcement was being
applied unfairly actually that's a
fairly routine complaint that we
receive in general um
complaint that the police didn't act
aggressively enough
in certain situations and i'm looking at
one here where it involved
uh recovering a stolen vehicle um
that uh there have been claims of racial
bias there have been complaints about
uh bex or sorry columbus police
helicopters
and how they are used near our city and
whether or not
it was retaliatory somehow i mean we
just have a real broad
range of complaints that go beyond what
um
i think many of us might
view as as what we're kind of dealing
with on a
regular basis so
long story short broad variety of
complaints received the way that our crb
process
works is that a
complaint is filed we have a complaint
form on our website it used to be a
paper form now we have it in electronic
form
there is a paper form version in case
anyone needs a paper form version
on our website also individuals who wish
to file a complaint are provided a
resource where they can connect with a
complaint liaison
that complaint liaison can serve as an
intermediary to kind of help somebody
navigate a complaint process
the reason we created that was to
try to address concerns that we've had
that
citizens might feel intimidated by the
process of filing a complaint they might
feel like
concerned about retaliation they might
be concerned about understanding their
rights in the process
and so the our liaisons are attorneys
they are active
and at least in part in the sorts of
fields these intersect with
um our two complaint liaisons are mary
younger
who is um a former public defender also
i believe on columbus's citizen review
board now
and then sam marcelino who is an
attorney and bexley resident
um so that's all through the that's all
filed through the uh
through our website or on paper then
whatever department is being complained
against
has the ability to investigate that
complaint
respond to the complainant and
provide an opportunity for the
complainant to meet with that department
if they wish and you know further
discuss the complaint and that response
if the complainant is not satisfied with
the response of the complaint
they have the ability to appeal that
decision
that decision gets appealed to me and my
function as
the mayor which is essentially the
executive director of the city
slash safety director where i would
review the complaint
review the allegation and the response
to the complaint
and then provide a determination where
the citizen
review board comes in is a additional
layer
of transparency and accountability where
the citizen review board before my
review
would review the facts and circumstances
the record
have the ability to further investigate
and ask additional
questions have access to all the
pertinent records
and certainly access to city employees
and access to any witnesses that would
be willing to
testify to the citizen review board and
then provide
your own finding to me to review prior
to my
determination and the reason i think
that that is a
important process is that your findings
are a public record
in and of themselves as are the initial
findings of the city
so your report will be public
any one of you as members has the right
via our ordinance to obviously dissent
but also provide a public dissenting
opinion
you would always i think have that right
but this is very explicitly laid out in
our ordinance that you have the ability
to provide a dissent and opinion which
will become a matter of record
and would be entered into whatever the
consensus opinion of the crb is uh
when when that's being reviewed so
that's the structure
of our crb um
any questions about that
or mark anything additional to add
okay um
the i think one of the aspects that i
sort of alluded to as we're getting
started here is that we are
you guys are sorry a public body as a as
a appointed board
and you are subject to ohio sunshine and
ethics laws
and uh i would like it if mark you could
kind of give us a
broad brush overview of sunshine and
ethics laws and then follow that up with
some
additional resources via email i think
sure so sunshine ethics laws and
also public records laws so um
so sunshine laws are also in ohio known
as open meetings laws
and so basically in a nutshell it says
that
when a public body such as this or city
council or board of county commissioners
when they meet uh to discuss
business related to their chart their
charge
they have to meet in public and public
has to have access
to at least to be able to observe what
is going on
there's no legal obligation to allow the
public to participate
in the discussions or things like that
and different bodies have different
approaches to that
depending on the nature of their work um
excuse me i just i just smiled wrong it
wasn't coveted
um so um so when it comes to sunshine
laws and there's a couple of
now there are some exceptions that where
excuse me
the a public body can go into executive
session and discuss
things in private there are very limited
exceptions to that
for example one of them that is
occurring tonight with city council is
to confer with the attorney
for the public body about a matter that
of
relating to imminent or pending
litigation as one example
there's also some in general
and i shouldn't say general there's some
specific personnel related things
so but again those are clearly the
exceptions so
um so the the way that sunshine law
works is not only that
the public business has to be conducted
in the public
it also means that in this in the this
group situation
three of you cannot privately confer
on a matter coming before charter review
um outside of a regularly scheduled
meeting
one person can confer with another
person about a matter
but once that's done you can't even
confer with an
uh yet a third member of the um
this this group outside of a public
meeting again that doesn't apply to
personal stuff it doesn't apply to
general things you know but it does
apply to let's say a case or appeal
is before you all those deliberations
that you do
together have to be or as a body have to
be done together and in public
and in ohio the penalty for violating
um a public the ohio the sunshine laws
is a i think it's a 500 fine but more
importantly whatever decision ultimately
is made
can get set aside so um and bexley does
a very good job
and like i said i represent a lot of
jurisdictions throughout the state
bexley does
an excellent job in ensuring that
things that need to be public are public
um
and what i'll do is i'll send for those
of you who care to look at it
um a the the what's called the yellow
book it's
it's a summary of um public records
and sunshine laws you know application
in ohio way
more than you need um because
but it's from the ohio attorney
general's office so i'll send that to
you
the other thing is that that you need to
be aware of is ohio's public records
laws
so public records and again i'm not
going to get the
the definition exact but but anything
that's
generated that helps document the
functions operations
decision-making process of a public
entity is going to be a public record
again there's exceptions to that but the
important part for you folks to keep in
mind
is that there isn't an exception when
i'm texting
somebody about even if it's just another
member about
substantive issues that come before this
board so texts
even on a personal phone could be a
public record emails are certainly going
to be public record
again if it's an email that says do you
want to meet for lunch not a public
record
i shouldn't say again but if it's an
email that says
um hey i just was taking a look at these
this file
and here's a couple thoughts i have even
if it's through a tax that's going to be
a public record
so again if there's any and ohio
ohio the ohio supreme court has
interpreted
public records laws as very liberal
and open in favor of providing records
to the public when those records are
requested
and again bexley has done historically a
pretty good job of
not fighting that because they are the
public's records but you know
it can be seem somewhat intrusive at
times
um and if you obviously if you ever have
any questions about it just let me know
um from an ethics standpoint
i mean basically the ethics stuff is
going to be
i think kind of second nature i mean
some of the sunshine law things and some
of the public records things are a
little counter-intuitive
because if they're any make it creates
inefficiencies
the ethics stuff is pretty or should be
pretty obvious to most people
you can't use your position for personal
gain you can't use
your position for personal gain out of
family members or business partners or
things like that
and um you know
from it from a some well i was going to
give you another example that
doesn't really make much sense
necessarily for this group so i won't go
into it
um and again obviously you can't make
any promises or anything
like that about particular outcomes of
how a case or a matter is gonna um
going to be resolved um one of the
things though relating to public records
and this is some i'm sorry
relating to ethics stuff and this is
something that we probably will need to
think about and revisit if and when when
a case comes before you
so this board has wide latitude
and so really you can consider
anything reasonably related to the
matter in front of you
but what you shouldn't do is you should
not consider
things that aren't in front of
all of you so for example if somebody
comes to you and says
hey hey i want you to consider this
statement that i just received you know
a neighbor of you
about incident x that's before you
that's okay to consider that perhaps but
it should be shared with all of the
other members
so you all are looking at the same stuff
and again it's important to you know
this is my
this is more of a not an ethics thing as
much as it is a
you know of well i guess it is because
you want to avoid the appearance of
impropriety
your decisions again you have what
you're going to have wide latitude in
what
how you approach things as a group and
the kind of decisions
or and the way you come to those
decisions but what you shouldn't can't
do
i mean we just had an example of it
let's not do what mr strickland did
with the citizens review advisory board
with the state
i'm sorry city of columbus and you know
be careful of those social media posts
or even what you're
telling somebody in supposed confidence
that might
impugn or be used by someone to impugn
your um
um lack of bias when a case comes before
you
so that's kind of it in a nutshell i'll
send that other information to you
any questions from mark
okay and i'm gonna yeah i'm also sending
the i put some stuff in the chat i
put the ordinance text in the chat and
uh
i will send that via email as well
um we have a membership i have a
question
i just wanted to um clarify for
everybody
um mark if you think that
up until this point let's say uh
just in general if an issue comes up
that
people are well aware because of social
media and so forth
and say someone in the group has
in some shape or form commented um this
is completely hypothetical i'm i'm not
doing the i have a friend
thing um but if someone has commented in
some shape or form about it um what do
you suggest
for um the members on how to handle that
you mean if a member has commented or
one of you guys commented
yeah i mean i would certainly prefer to
see folks
not commenting on things that you might
think reasonably
could come before you at least not
substantively commenting
again it wouldn't surprise me i mean
look you know we're not going to talk
about it
substantively at all but we all know
there was an incident
that just happened this past saturday
that is going to be investigated as
police department's starting an
investigation on um
you know so anybody who if somebody
posts something
i i mean if somebody if one of them a
member of this board
post something that says
that kid the police were totally wrong
or the police were completely right
i would probably recommend that you
would re should recuse yourself from
consideration of that matter when it
comes before this board
if somebody posts something online
though that's if one of you posts
something and says
um you know we are um
yeah here's you could file somebody can
file a complaint if you want to
or it's being there is a complaint
that's been filed
that's perfectly fine that's not
substantive i don't have a problem with
that
again and the less posted on social
media in general the better in my
personal opinion
um or if somebody tags you by name and
says hey brian drury what's the deal
here
you know again you could say hey i
understand
i've been told that the police are
investigating it and it's going to
follow the regular process or whatever
you want to say
so but again you have to be careful
about that and obviously there is
an example of that that's working its
way through the system as we speak
okay yeah so
my my question is in terms of the
specific language of the ordinance
the top of the funnel for the content
that we review
are complaints filed by citizens through
the process with
uh complaint concierge
are there other avenues of complaints
that
we would need to consider
uh as well or are is
are we riding down a road with certain
guardrails on it
you are the latter you are riding down
the road with certain guardrails
not for now again that doesn't mean the
process won't change over
time but that would have to be done by
legislatively by city council
the way this process was set up and i
think again ben
took the bull by the horns on this so he
could he could chime in too is that
the from a policy standpoint the city
wanted
to allow the department
against whom a complaint is made to
conduct that internal investigation
first and then if somebody is
unsatisfied for whatever reason
then they would have the right to
essentially as as the mayor said appeal
to the mayor
with you folks looking at it and making
a recommendation to the mayor
but it would have it i don't want to say
it's impossible
but it's extremely unlikely that
anything would come to you without
having been
investigated by the appropriate
department before it comes to you
again um the the complaint process is
defined
all of the chatter that goes on in
social media it really isn't relevant to
the work
that we're doing unless it gets
placed into the top of the funnel
correct again if
if you happen to look at chatter on
social media
that's not going to require you to
recuse yourself
in general but that's right i mean you
know again the
the the you get the
complaints the complaint goes to the
particular department
they conduct an investigation sometimes
that investigation may be
able to be done like that and sometimes
it could take weeks
and then they then once that complaint
is addressed by that particular
department
that the complainants at a minimum would
be made aware of
the outcome and they can decide what
they want to do from that point
in terms of coming to you or or taking
some other action they don't have to
come to you somebody could
you know simply not file a complaint and
if they feel they're a victim of let's
say race discrimination go file a
lawsuit
so to further expand i think i think
it's been covered but just in case
there's
it's not totally crisp uh for you to be
looking at that
appeal there needs to be a formal
complainant
an individual who has complained on
formally so it's in writing that they've
complained they've
but they don't have to have witnessed
the behavior so for example
we received yesterday the incident we're
kind of referring to we received six
complaints
in a one-hour period um
all of those individuals have a right to
file that complaint they will all be
responded to
very purposefully and will be given
the ability to further discuss it with
the department
and or appeal so um
that the liaisons you mentioned the
liaisons lead they are not required in
the process
they're a option so they are provided
as a resource to a complainant but
they're not required and in fact in this
instance
there have not been there has not been
the use of a complaint liaison
so far our complaint liaisons have i
know have dialogued with at least one or
two people in the past over the past
nine months since we created it or more
but have not yet actually been a part of
a complaint having been filed
um so for what it's worth it's just kind
of an interesting
element i think of what's going on right
now and the complaint liaisons are not
advocates for the complainant they're
just there to help them through the
process to make it less intimidating
to explain what needs to be done but
they're not advocating on behalf of the
complainants
right so as members
can we suggest uh perhaps to the mayor
that uh engagement involvement of the
liaisons might be a good idea with some
individuals to help them through the
process
or to help us all through the process
you have yes you can suggest that is
that a suggestion
well it's potential i mean i would think
there might be situations where we see
someone's emotionally distraught as the
complaint is presented
we're seeing them go through a number of
individuals and
uh communications and not really getting
a resolution that perhaps might be
appropriate
and it might be a hands-on individual
relationship with liaison that might
assist us all in the process so
it's just an option i don't see it as
one that would be engaged in very many
situations but
there might be that odd situation i know
i've run into the past
where people get engaged in a complaint
and they just need some assistance they
need someone to really do a hands-on
one-on-one with them and a liaison might
be that individual
yeah that makes sense and i think mark i
don't think there's anything to stop
a member of the crb from reaching out to
liaison and saying hey
i'm aware of this instance you know if
you wanted to touch base with this
person
directly would there be mark i mean not
like
just a content value neutral just sort
of like hey this person might
be able to use that assistance no i
don't think there's any problem with
that just
again without being judgmental on their
underlying
issue just saying hey here's a
completely complaint liaison
contact information you should talk to
him or her
okay any other questions or thoughts on
on those topics
um we are the city has joined a group
and i'm going to share this with you
because i don't
i'm not sure how helpful it will be or
not helpful it will be
but we have joined um can you see that
the national association for civilian
oversight is that showing up yeah okay
uh so we're a member of nicole which
is the only like national uh
group i could find that provides
resources for
citizen review board type bodies
so to the extent that that membership is
helpful
take a look at this page is nacole.org
there are resources on here there are
trainings and
annual meetings and all that good stuff
feel free to become involved in that
and if there are additional groups
or resources that you think we should
connect you guys to and provide
for you then then let us know and uh we
will do that because we want to make
sure that you feel equipped
to in in your role and you know any sort
of
education or networking or resources
that we could help with
uh let us know and uh i've explored that
website uh there's about an
hour and 22 minute video on it in terms
of the purposes of
um of review boards and oversight um
i think it's uh excellent and um uh
highly recommended
and just so folks know too there and i
think you all know this but i just felt
like it
this is an approach if you're gonna look
at that that video which i'm sure
is very interesting and helpful um just
keep in mind there are
many different iterations of citizens
review boards
some will automatically review any use
of force regardless of whether there is
a complaint
some citizen review boards or setups
like columbus
has a separate arm or separate
individuals who do the investigation
and come to them um again the city of
this
did not go with that those routes that
doesn't mean we can't
change things down the road if it makes
sense um i mean just so folks understand
you know and again ben if you have any
input on this obviously
chime in but the reason we ended up with
the structure that you
that that is in the ordinance that
appointed you folks to this
is because something needed to be done
there needed to be more transparency and
and some independent review outside of
these departments primarily the police
department and we
we know that's where a lot of the issues
arise because of the type of interaction
law enforcement
has with people um i mean
and their day-to-day job i mean um and
but um
but we also wanted to get something in
place and didn't want
at this point a long drawn-out battle
with the fop
so just so you know i mean we've met
with the local fop folks
and it's the same people who represent
columbus and
um they are they are fine with what
we're doing
i almost said they're on board i think
they're almost on board they're not
thrilled with it but
they're almost on board but they they're
understanding they're fine what we're do
with what we're doing you're going to
see
if um here actually on tuesday night
it'll be
presented in an ordinance or next
tuesday um
that one of the charter where this
bexley has gone through a charter review
process
and one of the charter recommendations
is to actually
put the citizen a citizens review board
in the charter
that won't change anything you folks are
doing it just will make it so
it has to exist as opposed to an
ordinance which can change
or get begotten you know repeal
good points um
what one thing i think what we should
talk about next if it's okay
is actual formal organization and
uh what that looks like and what our
what our
ordinance says along these lines so i
have pulled up
the sorry the organizational section of
our of our ordinance
and what you guys need to be doing next
so that i'm not
leaving these meetings um is uh to vote
for a chairperson
um that chairperson would serve because
of the way we rotate our commissions
it would serve for uh or in committees
until june 30th um so
it's pretty intense one and a half month
chairperson ship
and then just it would be you would
reappoint a chairperson after that
um sorry to say that you will not be
compensated but uh you can expect a nice
holiday commission and board meal at our
mayors and solicitors party
and in person this year in person
yeah let's hope and um
you have the ability to call the board
can call a meeting
um via the chairperson
uh with at least 24 hours notice
and again open to the public
you can adopt your own rules to govern
your conduct and we can give you
examples of what other boards or
committee
committees and commissions have adopted
as rules but every board or committee or
commissions a little bit different
some find it necessary to adopt rules
others don't
if you don't adopt rules we are
generally governed by robert's rules of
order
which is an incredibly exciting document
if you haven't read it
in terms of just how to conduct meetings
and
it does require a written report
to be provided to
the city and to be published on the city
website within 30 days
of reaching a conclusion so
with that i don't know if you guys want
to
elect a chair right now or if you want
to think about the fact that there is a
need to elect a chair maybe
the next meeting you're the board member
so
why don't you discuss that
is there somebody who wants to be the
chair because i can say that i am
totally okay with not being the chair
uh ben with that organizational
structure can we set up like a
chair and a co-chair or a chair and a
vice chair so that person
who would be the vice chair would be
prepared to take over the
the chair person ship the following year
yeah you could absolutely do that that's
your decision
and um yeah totally up to you guys how
you want to conduct that
think of these as the minimum
requirements okay off of which
within the scope of law you can continue
to create your own culture and
build build the organization the way you
want to and tiffany i saw you had your
hand raised
yeah i volunteered to be the chair
i'll try now you know volunteering
doesn't mean just to june 30th that
means
i'm just kidding i'll go for it
awesome for me
so i think then there should if folks
are good with it again just to be
technically correct
someone should make a motion in a second
and then you could just do a voice vote
or
individual votes however you prefer
i move for tiffany to be the chair
i second all in favor
aye aye aye can i vote for myself
absolutely hi
well there you go i'm i'm done the chair
is yours now tiffany
oh you were acting chair i was just
organizing i wasn't anything
and you could pick a vice chair now or
you could decide that to do that later
it's totally your call
no i do like the idea of a vice chair
i'm happy to serve as vice chair perfect
do so uh i move that we would nominate
lady nathan's as vice chair
i'll second that all in favor say
i i
it is so moved
okay all right well we are very
efficient
[Laughter]
madam chair if i might suggest uh one uh
some things to talk about
would be do you guys want to meet
routinely
do you only want to meet when there's
been a complaint
do you in your in any meetings whether
routine or otherwise are there any
topics any presentations or updates you
would like routinely from city staff
or any sort of information you would
like from us so those are some things to
think about and then anything else you
guys want to think about yeah
no i i think that's a good question and
i think
beyond well i i'd like to get an
understanding and i guess
mayor kessler maybe you can give some
thought um
kind of behind the impetus of this about
maybe what are the broad objectives of
this group
beyond just remediating complaints is it
just that
singularly right um
you know maybe can you give some i guess
point of view in terms of putting this
together
because then that would help to answer
the question around do we meet more
broadly than
you know when a complaint comes up yeah
so
i would first off turn right back to the
um duties and functions that are
enumerated in the
in the code and i'm going to pull that
up because i think that speaks directly
to your question so there's that
there will be a structural answer to
this
and then uh probably a yes and so
it outlines it here it talks about how
you would be responsive to complaints
it talks about how that actual process
would work um
and so the one through five are all
based specifically on
an appeal of a complaint uh
and in fact that goes on to uh
six seven eight um so the the way that
it's set up structure i just wanted to i
wanted to review that with you guys so i
didn't say anything wrong
is really focused on on determining
an appeal of a complaint having said
that
i think that you have some latitude to
move beyond that in an informal capacity
and mark i don't i just want to make
sure mark
i'm not saying the wrong thing here but
um if
for example you find that
you know i think understanding more
about what's going on in general in the
city can be very helpful for you so you
have a basis of education
many of you are already very involved in
different aspects of city governance so
you have some of that awareness
but it might not be holistic there might
be some blind spots yeah because i think
it helps
you know obviously to understand an
organization so that when you are
confronted with
a complaint you kind of have some of
that background but yes
i think no i think that it can be active
or passive and i think that's a cultural
decision that you have
so oh i'm sorry go ahead no please
well i was going to just follow up on a
couple of points
so i do think this this group certainly
has the
option of meeting and saying you know
what we want the police chief or we want
the building department person or
something
just to come talk to us and explain what
they do you know and pinpoint some areas
where you might
expect the possibility so so it's sort
of a
you know to get up to speed kind of
thing what you explicitly
don't have the authority to do though is
to
just you know this is not a citizen's
advisory board it's a citizen's review
board and
i think the distinction is important
because that means you can't go in and
say you know what
we don't like this policy and we're
going to make a recommendation that the
police department say have policy x
instead of policy y
now you could potentially do that in the
context of a complaint that comes to you
but you can't just say we're going to
look at and because we talked about that
being a possible structure and we shied
away from that
yeah so not a fishing expedition to your
point well scope is very tight
yeah i mean i wouldn't even call that
official because i mean because that's a
legitimate thing
for some boards can do i mean some some
jurisdictions have
a board that can be that active we
specifically tried to stay away from
that
and started with what i think was the
most
important part i can't wait to speak for
council and the mayor which was
making sure there's transparency in
investigations
that are occurring primarily of course
related but not exclusively to
allegations of you know discrimination
or bias
and okay uh my question is do do
have you given any thought to how this
um
board would be staffed is there someone
in
um the city administration who would
serve to help us convene
to publish me uh minutes uh etc
yeah that's a really good question i was
thinking that because i was realizing as
we're meeting i was like oh
i'm gonna have to we're gonna have to
get these in a minute so um
the beauty and the the advantage of the
current
digital uh universe that we're living in
is that it's really easy for us to
produce minutes after the fact
um we have a very strong record for that
but um yeah staff coordination of
agendas and any attachments and that
sort of thing
will be important i do not i don't have
a final word for you right now and who
that would be but yes i understand the
need for that
thanks let me ask you what about just in
terms of i guess
guiding principles and or structure to
how
you know the how we resolve what's
brought to us right so
you know i know that there i know that
there's uh obviously there's an
objectivity that we want to bring to
this we want it to be fact based right
these types of things
but is there any structured you know is
it just open discussion i mean is there
anything that we want to bring to this
from a structure or guiding principles
or criteria or just anything to you know
add some structure to how what the
process looks like in terms of how we
discuss or remediate issues that are
brought to the board
or you know is it should it be informal
you know i guess
i'm interested to hear
opinions on that my opinion would be
that
we benchmarked perhaps some of these
other groups that are out there
some that have been in existence for a
while i mean i defer to the three
members that have been on this
in terms of any prior structure they
might have but it might be beneficial
for us to
to benchmark look around uh
independently and look at what groups
are out there and maybe then come
coalesce as a group and say perhaps this
is one we could look at or use a
procedure
they may have a very set process where
they look at things
and we might be able to rather than
reinventing we might be able to
build upon what has already been
established by other boards
yeah i think that's a really good idea
that's a really good idea
yeah and this is brian um i i have set
in
a couple different cities who have like
smaller you know something similar to
bexley from there just to get kind of
you know a flavor what they have from
there and again it's all over the board
so i did
i found some good takeaways but i didn't
find anything that was you know saying
okay this is
you know the best thing to do so sorry
becky
oh no you're fine you're fine um so we
actually had not had any um complaints
to review
um prior to today so um it's all new for
all of us
but my thought would be that
um once we actually have something to
work on
that we meet and that we
discuss it and decide what if any
um of our of our own as a group
um further information we we need or
want
before making a decision and then
ideally
um you know i anticipated that
one of us would potentially volunteer to
to write up a decision and
we would be able to give feedback so
that was my thought
i mean they're really it's really our
own decision on how to do it but
um should we put that on paper should we
kind of document what we think that that
could or should look like and and i
think you know my mind goes to
to your point we haven't had any
complaints you know
let's say we get a flurry right how do
we
kind of ensure that we have a level of
consistency with which we
you know work through things or you know
drive to some kind of conclusion
right and you know should we be in a
position to need to defend it right
yeah let me i will send you i worked
with them
uh i didn't prepare it myself but i
worked with the city of reynoldsburg
and they came up with their ordinance
and it is
much more extensive than bexley's i
don't mean that
pejoratively although i certainly have
an opinion about it but
one of the benefits about that being
more extensive is they did include
some rules and some things that
or what would be rules for you folks so
i will send that to you
for you to take a look at it may or may
not help um
you know keep in mind when you do this
too that you know some of these are
going to be much more
need to be much more formal than others
some are going to inevitably require
a um you know witnesses and swearing
into witnesses and things like that
and some might just be a paper review
some might include video
you know so so i do think it's a good
idea to have some
general process on paper
that you can if justified deviate from
the other thing the other thing to keep
think about
and again i'm not suggesting for a
minute that you should answer this right
now or that there is a one-size-fits-all
approach but the way in my opinion
you when if when a complaint comes
before this group
you are supposed to base your decision
decision based on the facts and evidence
presented
and that sounds obvious to all of you
i'm sure
but the problem is you're going to have
people who want to just
talk about it and i don't know that
that's necessarily
beneficial or fair to anybody you know
for example
it's not you know it wouldn't surprise
me if you have a bunch of people who
come in and say
the police again i'm picking on the
police because they're the ones who are
most likely to be in front of you the
police this police officer officer
jones did a terrible job and you could
see this this this and this that's my
opinion
and then we have five people who come in
and say defend officer jones
that's not really what this is about
this is as i see it this
but you're but inevitably there are
going to be people who want to talk to
you about things
in a public forum and the question
that you have to think about is should
they be able to
in what circumstances should they be
able to and even if they do
if they're just giving you their opinion
and not presenting
facts and evidence then i think you have
to be real careful about
being influenced by those kinds of
things
yeah i think that's a really good point
and i and i think that kind of goes
uh to my original question around
um the objectives right of this
body if you will right if it's
singularly just to remediate a complaint
then
what meets the definition of that to
your point what you just described may
not
if it's that and these other things then
what are those other things and then to
your point documenting that
on paper so that we can you know
be operating within some type of
structure indoor guidelines
so i don't know where ben disappeared to
i have to
jump off oh there he's coming back i
have to jump off because
did you go to the bathroom ben is that
what you did i just sometimes you know
you
you guys are aboard so i want you guys
to talk about
the board i have to jump off because i
have another zoom at two o'clock
so it is good talking to you and meeting
mark before you leave i just got one
real quick question
uh given we have the some great legal
minds on this board from there so
will we have the option to come not talk
about you i'm talking about our lord
um so would we have the option to come
to you and say
hey we need a interpretation
of this you know city law city oh
definitely
absolutely because i i don't want to put
you know our
again our legal minds on there you know
saying hey you know what is your
interpretation while you're like okay
yes but
you know is that the right channel to
come to you and say hey
okay i just want to make certain i mean
because i didn't want to put up the
other two people
i'll be fine with the other lawyers you
know or
non-lawyers here you know
interpreting things but should you have
any questions that require
something more official or something
more formal
i am absolutely a resource for you guys
now mayor and so we do there
are some complaints i think uh mayor
kessler you said that
thanks mark thank you so you sure that
there are six
pending complaints now that will go
through a normal process
it's probably consolidated uh in the
response
and then um in terms of like one unified
response because they're all of the same
incident yes so then they would
reach out to the complainant um
individually
um you know i think that the
i think the likelihood that one of those
six results in an appeal is
probably fairly high i mean let's let's
be honest that's
that feels like it's possible certainly
um
so i think what we do in that instance
is we're gonna the the police department
will review those complaints
they will take them very seriously
they'll respond in writing
they'll offer the opportunity for
further discussion and then if
a appeal is filed to any of those
decisions or if multiple ones are
let's say and we should i mean let's
just say generically speaking if we ever
have an incident where you have multiple
appeals filed
um i would imagine that you as a board
i certainly as a respondent at the
appeal level
would want to take those and and
coalesce them into one
appeal or at least unify unify the
response to those
um if it's all one incident you know and
that the nature of the
of the complaint is is similar so that
you would be responding
into one as opposed to three you know
different
uh appeals okay so it's so i guess it's
a wait and see then
so it's likely but we'll wait and see
what happens if it results in an appeal
it's possible yeah i mean it
for sure but yeah at any time it's
possible that the complaint
could occur and that someone would be
unsatisfied with the answer yeah
and you know it could range in all it
could be in all sorts of contexts
and can you distribute a roster please
um
with contact information for everyone's
phone number and emails please
yeah i can do that and i would say that
ties up to my question is so we don't
have currently a meeting cadence in
place or we
i guess just the previous iteration of
this group did you already have a
meeting cadence in place
no we we we should do that now yeah
so are there any
suggestions for what the cadence should
be
i was thinking that
maybe it makes sense to do
um twice a month
if i'm just thinking twice a month only
because if
if we're gonna get uh and undated maybe
twice a month and then
if we have nothing you know nothing
going on
then we can say you know what we got
nothing so we don't need to meet maybe
what do you think i'm good with that
and and i think we also said that
there's some administrative things that
we'd like to get in place as well
so to your point at least um as we're
working through some of the
administrative nature of some of the
work of this group and kind of scanning
up the structure of it
right um you know we can we can use some
of that time to do that
is there any other points i want to meet
in person
or virtually for the first uh couple
minutes
probably say virtual for the first
couple until
yeah things coming down yeah
yeah any other points of view on cadence
okay good and then um and
who would handle those meeting notices
so i know we talked about
kind of meeting minutes and some of
those uh kind of more administrative
staff
kind of requirements and mayor castle
you said that you did have something in
mind would that same person
handle meeting notices is that
yeah so tiffany i think uh what we
should do is
when you guys have decided when you'd
like to meet um
let mark and i know i will work on
facilitating a staff person i i just
need i can't give you a name today
without first
checking with staff as much as i
probably could it wouldn't go over well
so um
i'm gonna make sure that you know
bandwidth is there and people are
comfortable and everything so
and in future meetings unless you want
me to come for a specific thing
whether it's educational or
philosophical or whatever
i am probably not going to be present
for the very important reason that i'm
going to be reviewing your report
and responding to it so i feel like it
makes sense for me not to be embedded in
your process
i want you guys to be as independent as
possible and
you know take take this charge and go
with it with augusto
and integrity so okay um
so let me ask you does this day work for
because i wonder if you know we can
maybe make a quick recommendation and
say at least initially we'll do this
twice a month does this day work for
everyone
um so i mean i'm in court
normally um and things would you prefer
early
so i don't i mean technically i think
after work is probably more feasible
but like if you need to do we need to be
doing it during
work work hours business regular
business hours
and let me what will qualify as after
work like a four o'clock a fight like
you know what when you say after work
yeah yeah like a four or five o'clock is
something
i could do perfect i could do a four
o'clock
could could we kind of just really
quickly because i know part of the work
is trying to you know
get calendars together and i think that
the quicker we can try to block off time
the better
would uh would a four o'clock on uh was
today
tuesday work for everyone at least
initially twice a month
oh perfect so that's fine it's fine with
me
i can look at my my schedule that works
for me
awesome we'll need to make sure though
under sunshine law that
all these meetings are announced uh
publicly as well
yeah we will take care of that
infrastructure so we'll make sure that
everything's compliant
okay perfect so i mean maybe on your end
me or kessler as you
from a staffing perspective we can just
say right now we're gonna do initially
every other week
four o'clock on tuesdays what if what if
we do
like the sorry to be nitpicky
like the first and third tuesday four
o'clock
of every month that way yeah if we
randomly have a
yeah multiple yeah that also really
helps because council's second and
fourth
and yep mark or myself or someone is
going to be
pretty frazzled on the council tuesday
on any given week
yeah so first and third tuesday okay
first and third tuesday four o'clock
awesome we are productive this is
productive
yeah so we'll go ahead and calendar that
and we'll get zoom links in place and
all that stuff
and then um get you a staff contact all
right
perfect okay and then we can please
don't be offended when i don't show up
to the meeting it's not a lack of care
it's
no no we understand all right and then
we can also work with that person on
setting an agenda beforehand as well
okay good thank you just a suggestion
for an agenda item for the next meeting
um maybe we each benchmark a little bit
and look i mean
brian's done some of this so he might be
able to bring some of his perspective
but
and we have mark's views on reynoldsburg
by that time
so that might give us at least a
structure for that meeting
agreed be helpful to you as you guide us
through that process no i think that's
fantastic yes
great thank you so much it was a
pleasure to meet you all i know
i appreciate working together look
forward to
seeing you in person at some time in the
uh right now
yes okay thank you so do we do i think
we need to do we need to call a motion
to
call the meeting to order if we're doing
robert's rules
normally you usually move to adjourn but
it really depends on how much you
how formal you want to be it's up to
your culture as the chair how you want
to handle that exactly
oh so i'd probably lean more towards
informal only because i
i have other meetings with robert's
rules and i can never remember you know
every place to use it so i think if
if if if there's no one who feels
strongly about
ending it under those orders and i just
feel like see you all
on the 18th at four exactly exactly
thank you