may 13th meeting of the bexley
architectural review board
we will start by calling the rule
mr scott here ms krosky
here mr bardwell here
madame tony here
our next uh item is our public comments
so this is an opportunity for any person
to provide comments to the board on any
item that is not on the board's meeting
agenda for tonight
any comments that are relating to items
on the agenda may be made by those
withstanding
when the matter is before the board for
consideration is there anyone who wants
to speak on any matter that is not in
front of the board tonight if so
please raise your hand and karen will
admit you
i don't see any hands raised okay
so the next item will be the approval of
minutes
so moved
is there a second i'll second
and kathy can you call the roll
mr scott yes ms krosky yes
mr bardwell yes madame tony
yes okay the next item
uh is to go to old business
and we are looking at application number
arb 21-7
um but so is this old business then
karen or is this on our consent agenda
non-consent let me pull up the staff
report which will have the
um items there you go
um that looks great yes this is the
staff report which now has the
um any item that's going to be done in
the consent agenda item group
in red so um we can do it i can read
them out or kathy you can read them out
however you want to do it we'll vote on
them as a group
okay you want me to read them or do you
guys want to read them
that's your the pleasure of the chair
i'll read them just give me something to
do
okay the first uh so these for anyone in
the audience these will be voted on
as a group these are all items that have
been before the board
we have all um looked at them and given
our consent and so we will
vote on them as a group um okay so the
first item
is application number arb 21-7 the
address is 269 south ardmore
the applicant is marika mckeel
and the owners jacob and elizabeth
garrett
the second item is application number
arb 21-47 the address is 821 grand in
avenue the applicant is
taylor buffenberger
the owner jerry and lisa hosts
the third item for consent
is arb 21-33 the address is 912
chelsea the applicant is pete foster and
the owner is cynthia
wechbacher the next item for consent
agenda
is application arb 21-34 the address is
307 north parkview
the applicant is pete foster the owner
is matt and annette vaughn
next item for consent is application arb
21-35 the address is 206 south dawson
the applicant is dean wentz and the
owners graham and emily williams
the next consent agenda item
is arb 21-39 it addresses 168
south cassingham the applicant is megan
dixon and the owner is christopher
thomas
i'm not sure if i'm pronouncing that
right sorry if i just botched that
and uh the last consent agenda item
is application arab 21-44 the address is
309 north parkview
the applicant is todd parker
okay before we vote on these is there
anyone in the audience that would like
to speak
on behalf on any of these agenda items
if so please raise your hand and karen
will admit you into the meeting
i also wanted to clarify that um
or just make the statement that any of
these consent agenda items that board
members had
suggestions or conditions have been
completely accepted by the applicants so
those are noted in the staff notes
but they were very um a late release of
staff
notes this month sorry about that
um but they were all accepted and those
are noted
in the staff notes okay
i do not see any hands at this time
okay so do i have a board member that
would like to
move to approve these consent items
i'll move to approve
now second
you want to call the roll kathy yes
uh miss krosky yes mr bardwell
yes mr scott yes
madame tony yes thank you
okay so uh for the items that we will be
reviewing
tonight the first one is this
uh item number d right application
yes arb 21-36
the address is 331 south parkview the
applicant is sullivan builders the owner
is thomas vetter
and the applicant is seeking
architectural review and a certificate
of appropriateness
for an addition of screen porch to an
existing
single-family residence okay um
this applicant is um
is adding on a screen porch to the side
and the front of this um home
um i in the staff report which is why i
pulled it up
well which is why i'm keeping it up
right here i i found it just kind of
hard to understand the drawings
and i wanted to make sure we we looked
at the photo
and the front elevation side by side as
well as in plan
i don't have a problem fundamentally
with having the
porch added to the side that also has a
front elevation
but i i think it's a mistake to put them
in the same plane
i think it really takes away from the
frontage of the house and i'm wondering
if the apple camp might
be able to speak to that and potentially
think about moving it
back a little bit so that there's some
bit of a recess unless i'm reading that
wrong
the um it it goes
directly across
uh this is the applicant i believe is
um matt sullivan who's here so i'm going
to
um put him into
the panelist room
and pull up the drawings as well um but
matt if you want to go ahead and present
the kind of reasoning and
and explain your design that would be
great i have to i'll swear i'm in yeah
you need to be sworn in as well i have
been working with kelly who's the
designer on this project i believe
um
but i think matt is here to represent
the project this evening
[Music]
hi um can everyone hear me okay i'm
sorry i'm at a soccer game
sure matt state your name and raise your
right hand please
okay i am matt sullivan
i'm sorry
i'm not sullivan okay do you solemnly
swear or refer
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
yes thank you welcome
um so i think uh karen's take is
correct it is uh the um
the addition is uh across the facade
we've currently uh laid it out in such a
way that it is
um allowing a double door
from the existing
patio so i think the the thought behind
leaving it
in its current location as drawn is that
we have an existing patio
already um there so the so the
current um patio that
is not uncovered is in in that plane so
we just
continued it um to karen's
point i don't i can't imagine that the
applicant would have a
significant issue with moving it back
some but i would imagine i know that
they would like to keep it
accessible at some level from the
existing patio
that is shown on a draw
karen is there any specific other
questions that i can answer for you i
think
the uh you know your your summary was
essentially correct
it's about a 17 foot off at 17 foot
six from the corner of the house
as you're looking at from the street to
the left and then 33 feet
back and it currently the front of the
screened porch is at the same level of
the front of the patio
i would open it up to the board members
for questions i mean
i'm just a little concerned about the
design tip i mean this is such a
gorgeous front facade
and i just want to make sure that it is
um that the porch
is still deferential to it and doesn't
just look like
you know it was lumped on the side and
i'm i'm i'm
pardon me i don't mean i mean you guys
do a great job i'm not thinking
but i think flush with it with the um
i don't know i'd like to hear the board
members opinion i'm i'm just a little
bit concerned i suppose you could just
step it back at least one door with and
just have one door
from the patio um but like i said let's
open it up to the board members
well i'll i'll offer very quickly that
again i
i'm not in favor of us designing uh
in the course of a meeting so i'm simply
offering this as an observation
but one option is the converse of what
we've presumed
which is to to push the addition
backward
uh i'll suggest that one design
response to be considered would be
actually to be pull it
to pull it forward so that you still get
that distinction uh
between the two planes the existing and
the new
but that it would be pulled forward
rather than pushed backwards
peter are you saying you'd pull it all
the way forward to where the wall is now
you're muted yeah i i don't know i don't
i don't want to uh again design
uh on the fly i'm simply saying uh that
there is another
option in addition to pushing it
backward and that would be to pull it
forward whether that's
pulling it forward one foot or a couple
of feet or more i don't know
jocelyn or pete do you want to chime in
jocelyn
go ahead pete uh
i agree that this this is a beautiful
old home and uh
you know when you you do this type of an
addition i think it's it's challenging
um to make sure that it kind of runs in
uh the the form factor of what's
happening and what's doing isn't typical
to this type of a home
or the form factor is okay because i
think that it does match well with the
front porch
but the the idea of the large kind of
screen and porch doesn't typically
isn't typically found on this type of
architecture in a separate poem
saying that um i hear what mr bardwell
has stated about maybe possibly pulling
it forward
but i actually like it in line it's in
line with the existing half wall of the
the front
front patio from porch um and then
it is protruded in front of that main
gabled roof
to the left of the house in that photo
but it actually aligns with the from
what i see in the plan with that front
half wall
um so i actually like it i like the form
and
the massing of it um i think the roof
mimicking the roof of the
main porch i think works well
my two concerns are that stonework has
been there a long time and looks like
it's been repaired a lot especially
around the columns
i think you can have a really hard time
matching that stone
and that work uh i think the stone will
be easy and fairly easy to match but the
actual grout the the mortar and that
wide
real kind of thick mortar where you
almost lose the stone
is going to be almost impossible to
match because of the age of that so i
don't know
i'd like to hear your thoughts on how
you think you might be able to do that i
know you have a lot of experience in
in construction so i think some of
that's going to be difficult
in in an offset plane you can kind of
more easily kind of define the new
versus the old
but when it's parallel i think that
becomes a little bit more difficult
and then my second comment uh would be
related to the screened-in porch
openings and i think i think there's a
mess here i think that
the existing windows are detailed very
nicely and they have the
upper upper transoms with the divided
lights um
i would like to see a little bit more of
some detail in the screen in porch
details i think
an open panel screen is is is too plain
for the front of the house
maybe on the side and the back you can
simplify that but i think on the front
of this house
i would really want to see more detail
in the dividing up of that screened in
porch
the windows okay
uh if i yeah i think i think the
detailing is
uh is relatively straightforward to pull
off and i think
that makes sense to me um i think uh as
it pertains to stonework i think one of
the things we have
working the two things we have working
in our favor one is
we do have a num a large amount of stone
that we're going to be able to salvage
from the patio that we'll be removing as
you're looking to your left
so we kind of designed it with that in
mind that we would be able to at least
get that front facade
reusing that i think the other nice
thing about that the kind of the heavy
trowel
finish of the stone is that it's not
overly precise
you know so it's it's a little bit of a
you know it was designed
in part to look kind of rustic almost
like you know
uh you know artisan did it rather than
maybe a craftsman
so i think it does give us a little bit
of leverage to
you know not have to be so precise it's
not a you know a very specific struct
strike pattern or something
i i would like to believe that we'd be
able to get a pretty good uh
match i also would like to say as you go
left to right you know i think once you
hit the stairs it's the main entrance
um you know if we redo that and kind of
clean all that up where we tie it in
i think you'll have a pretty natural
break point where the stairs are
so i think it will give you an
opportunity to kind of not
look like it's a it's an addition but
it's always been there so
when it i but again i think um i think i
can reasonably
um assume that the homeowner would be
fine with stepping it back if we felt
that that was necessary
or stepping it forward i think i think
really
you know just kind of taking a first
pass at it we felt you know keeping
the wall where it was made the most
sense i don't think it was again
i don't have a problem with where it is
i think i think the one comment
that i would have against maybe a little
bit different than mr bardwell is
i like that the front steps and the
front porch is proud of this
because that says that's where the entry
is and if they were equal they'd be
competing so i think having this
further back aligned at least with the
existing half wall
or step further back uh would be nice
i think the challenge when you step it
further back is how do you get to it and
how does this existing porch
still wrapped in front of it so i kind
of like the
the aspect of this because i could see
myself using this front porch
and then immediately going into the
screen in portrait i think the
functionality of it is very
it's very it's pretty cool so i think
i'm not against having this kind of
lined up with this half wall i think
that works well
just so that i'm clear i'm i'm not
advocating
pulling it out to be in alignment with
the current
projection uh to the right on the screen
uh for all the reasons that mr scott has
mentioned
that having been said i i
very strongly recommend for your own
benefit
that those that that plane
not be a simple extension
as a as a practical matter of of
extending the stone but also
a house of this nature in bexley
thrives on changes in plane
and shade and shadow and to me a simple
extrusion does not
serve it serve that justice i would like
to see some
differentiation in that plane i would
also suggest
that again unfortunately the way this
is presented the way i'm seeing it on
screen
it to your great detriment appears
flat which it's not so
i i would recommend that any
additional study if you were to
undertake it
does something to give us an idea of how
this
would be represented in three dimensions
and and that said one of the things that
i think that you would see
uh is that your your matching
the the vertical extension of the stone
on the far left of of what we're looking
at in the elevation
uh i would suggest that you might
actually consider
framing uh framing whatever
our extension or protrusion is
with some corresponding vertical
element again it's hard to tell because
we're seeing this
two-dimensionally and that's not the way
it would actually be seen
okay i understand that um
are there any other questions yeah
jocelyn you want to speak to this time
sure
so um i i'm just gonna bring up a couple
things
um one just watch your screen size
i have a screened-in porch that has
fairly large
um screens in it and you know the
material is not so fun it can get a
little wavy and things like that if this
if the size of the um
panels are too large um and then
uh the other thing is is on um
uh the side elevation i feel like
there's a missed op
it seems a little i maybe the asymmetry
is good maybe not i feel like
maybe you want to have a stone so
elevation
d there maybe you want to carry that
stone pier
to the left-hand side of that uh
those two larger screens and have it
turn the corner
onto uh partial rear elevation b
um i don't think it would take too much
of of the space
uh where you have the rule screen um so
consider that as well
okay so then i think that leaves uh just
my comments
um i i actually think it's pretty nice
the way it is my only thing that i would
like to see
is your large screens i'd like to see
some kind of detail
um like i think peter mentioned this of
just boxing in some kind of square
detail
across the top or something to carry in
what is going on with the windows and
kind of carry that into a screen detail
i think it would break those up
and it might help what jocelyn's talking
about so you didn't have just these
massive areas of
um just you know screen unsupported so
i just like to see more wood or some
kind of square detail across the top of
those
especially on the front but even on the
side i think it will
make it really really nice so you can
even do it ransom screen
i mean that happens all the time where
you can just
mimic the windows and put the transform
above this
yeah but i think i think that fits the
character of the house much better to
have those
you know to have that those large areas
of screen broken up
so okay yeah i mean that makes sense too
i think
the idea of picking up the window kind
of the
you know the the grandeur of the windows
a little bit
uh and and get them in the screens and
and kind of clean up some of the stone
detail and then
we can play with how it protrudes off
the house
and get you a nice um kind of
uh rendering of some sort or you know
kind of a perspective drawing
um phil the architect's great at it so i
can i'll work with him to get something
to you guys
okay so based on what you've heard today
would you like us to go ahead and vote
on this or would you like to table this
for next month
uh i it sounds like i'm and pardon my
ignorance but it sounds like
if we table it then we can come back
with a
revised application is that my
understanding that correctly
correct yes that's correct okay so i
think we'd prefer to table it and we'll
come back with a
revised um revised drawing and
hopefully get it back uh get it get a
little closer to the target
great that sounds great okay so do i
have someone to make a motion please
i i'd like to add that if we want to
table this to a certain date which our
next meeting is june 10th
then we don't have to read notice but we
can just simply state that this will be
heard next on june 10.
okay all right matt is that acceptable
for you yeah that's great
yeah well i don't i think we'll have
this back in in a couple days for you
okay i think i think what you're asking
is uh small enough
yep great
thanks can one of the board members
please make a motion then to
table this i motioned the table to june
and i'll call the roll uh mr scott yes
ms krosky yes mr bardwell
yes madame tony yes
okay we'll see you back here next month
and if it's all well and good you'll end
up on the consent agenda item
yes grateful thank you thank you for
everybody for your time and i appreciate
you putting up with me being out at a
soccer game
thank you okay
uh next agenda item
um is the 160 north standard
yes okay so that's application number
arb 21-38 the address is 160 north
shanwood
the applicant is samuel rosenthal and
the owner of samuel rosenthal
and the applicant is seeking
architectural review and certificate of
appropriateness
for the construction of a new two-story
edition porch and trellis
and we'll get karen's staff award this
application is for in addition as um
chairman tony said for an addition to
the rear of the primary structure
with a porch and trellis um my biggest
concern on this are the is
are the two gable roofs um i i
think that it's probably worth i talked
to the applicant who
is an architect and it's probably worth
hearing
the kind of process decision from him
here's the home it currently has a very
interesting bay window
on the third floor and um
probably none of you had a lot of time
or didn't know to look at some of the
additional renderings
but it might help
those look very weirdly out of school
it looks like they got stretched when
they got uploaded or something yeah
i i will try to get the pdfs uploaded
again
but i'm going to hand it over to the
applicant to kind of go through
his design process reasoning for
creating that kind of double roof
structure which i
i don't think is really in keeping with
the
um architecture of the front of the
house and we have had this discussion
but um i'm gonna give the floor to him
to allow him to explain um
why he made those decisions um i'm going
to sam i'm going to put you into
the panelist room and kathie's where you
in
okay sam are you there
yes there we go it always takes a minute
thank you
um okay please state your name and raise
your right hand
uh my name is samuel rosenthal do you
solemnly swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes i do thank you so
um i guess my apologies that the
renderings came in
kind of skewed like that um the
um the input is for creating the um
sort of the double gable there was
um really trying to preserve on
on the primary massing as you're looking
at that east elevation photo
there's that that bay window that we
mentioned and i was trying not to
obstruct that view
so keeping the um the peak of the
addition
um just slightly below it about four
inches off so that we could terminate
into the back there
and then as part of the addition um
we're creating a master bath
um on the north side which is a smaller
volume that protrudes out
and um there's actually i did about
i think eight different variations
looking at
a hipped roof a higher hipped roof a
different gable
and a a shad roof
and for this application i settled on
this
um this gable roof it's
set back so i thought that the um the
way that the volume of the
home kind of stepped as you went around
it it wouldn't appear
too symmetrical so again unfortunately
those renderings are are kind of skewed
but as you walk around you kind of see
that those volumes are set back as
opposed to this east elevation that's up
right now where it looks
almost just like a doubled up almost
like a townhouse so
um the the
the hipped roof options just didn't seem
in keeping at all because there are no
other hips on the house they're all
gable ends
um i do have sheds in place but by
taking a shed
on that second volume it felt like i was
going to be
creating just a much larger mass on the
north side
so you can see it's kind of a minimal
addition to the wall
and that lower elevation if i were to
create a new shed
i think the proportions got a little
clunky and it also risked
blocking some of the that bay window
projection on the
on the third floor so this seemed like
the simplest way to be able to keep it
down
and and not obstruct any of the view
from that kind of special room up there
um i was able to pull up the pdfs
directly from your email so i'm gonna
try to get those up here um
hold on a second
and i guess as you're doing that i'd
also sent along my earlier studies i
didn't want to muddy the waters
and share the studies as part of the
application but those roof studies
came in under separate email so uh yeah
these
renderings are in much better proportion
i had started
with sort of the view at the sidewalk
from the street just to show that
the the addition didn't have a big
impact you're not really
seeing much at all from from the
approach
of course that's the nature of an
addition on the back but
you do see the the wall kind of pop up
there um
so in this view this is essentially the
existing condition there's
a chimney that we're going to be taking
down that's out of service
and then that little shed roof over
there over the back entry
which covers um just the the entry door
and a small very very small half bath
[Music]
so the idea was to take that shed off
and
then add the second bathroom above it um
so the next view you'll see what that
looks like
afterwards and so here you can see the
two volumes of
of the roof kind of um push back from
one another so
i think this is a much better view to
explain it than the
the front on elevation and um
this is just what i thought after doing
the different
options was the most appropriate for
this edition
so here's the view from the backyard
looking straight on
and then with the addition there you can
again see how
those two roof lines then they're not in
plane with one another so they don't
appear
as i'll say matchy-matchy as the
elevation view suggested
and then from our neighbor on the south
side who currently has a an addition
under construction now
this view it's it's it matches the
existing with the exception of the fence
which is a different color but the the
rendering software didn't agree with me
about that so
um my apologies but here's the the
addition coming in
and again keeping that peak below the
window so it's not to obstruct the view
of the uh
sort of the captain's nest up top
okay i'm gonna go back now to
there we go is there anything else you
want to say about it sam before we start
having the
board members ask me questions um
i i don't think so i think that's
i'm happy to um kind of walk through the
different options
if karen if you'd be able to pull those
up but um
the different options of there was an
additional email that i'd sent that
showed roof studies that
showed some of those options i'd
described i will look but i don't even
think i saw that one yet
okay did you send that today i i did
sorry
um like i said i didn't want to fill the
application up with uh
additional information that might have
been misconstrued
this is hard to pull stuff up as we
go through the meeting fair enough um
but i do see it
i think this is the one you're talking
about it is so
here you're seeing four options of that
same um
elevation from the east side so the um
the first one in the upper left hand
corner is just a hip so you don't really
get two different a profile what i what
i did like about this is it allowed me
to pull the gutter around and
my my sump is actually in the south um
east corner and
it just felt like it'd be easier to get
drain leaders that way but as i
mentioned before there are no other
hips on this house so it felt a little
out of place
to the right of that in the upper right
hand corner to differentiate a little
bit i'd created a higher hip
but again didn't seem appropriate i
created in order to offset
sort of that symmetry concern and we did
look at
doing a a higher gable end
and the proportions of that we could
always make adjustments to the
the height of that peak but it just
it started to feel like it was kind of
forcing something so
um i kept it in line and then the last
option in the lower right hand corner
that gray line is just a shed roof going
straight back up
and it's terminating in at about the
window head
just to give it some um kind of sense of
alignment but
not symmetry and and not wanting to go
all the way to that peak and really
balloon up the height of of that
elevation
okay i'm going to go back to
the agenda
okay
are we ready for are you ready for board
members questions sam
absolutely okay do you have a board
member that would like to start
or are you going to make me pick
somebody
looking for volunteers
okay uh jocelyn you want to want to give
it a go
sure um so the the
you call i can't remember what you
called the uh the part at the top at the
back there the
captain's the cat or the crow's nest or
whatever
what is that yeah it's the kids playroom
but uh
you know we call it all kinds of things
i think i refer to it as the captain's
nest
yeah i think that's the thing that's
sort of driving
driving it right um because that's
going to be existing to remain and and
so i i mean
i looking at the other options
i i agree i don't particularly like
those other options
i actually feel like the renderings
having those up helped explain the
building much better
so i don't know if those want to be
pulled back up because it's hard
to see this flat
especially at the back but i mean i know
when
uh in the rendering when you were
standing in the neighbor's yard looking
at
that elevation um
let's see uh let me see if i can pull it
up on mine
well the uh it would be so if you go to
the next page the south elevation
um it once i saw the rendering
from the neighbor's yard like that felt
fine the way it was being shown
um i like that the windows have a
similar
you know look to the rest of the house
it looks like you're using similar
materials um
so i mean i i don't really have
many issues with it um i think you
landed
personally on the best option that you
could so
okay um i'll go next um
so i've had i have a problem with that
there's just too many different ideas
going on here between what's going on in
the front and then
the addition are the the captain's pros
nests whatever you call it off the back
i feel like the house already had just
conflicting things going on from the
front to the back
and i feel like the addition that you're
trying to add to it is just now another
a third thing
and i don't feel like any of them are
really working together
um and i understand that what you're
trying to do with the roof
you know was working around that third
floor window but
i just don't feel like it's doing
justice to any of it
um and i'm i'm i can see why
and plan you you know tried to add the
the addition that's kind of in an l
shape but
i'm wondering if you just kind of
simplified it in plan
if it wouldn't give you a better shape
to for the whole edition
um off the back so at this point i'm i'm
not really feeling
that what you're showing is um
that it it's it's doing the house
justice so
um pete you want to go next
sure i
agree with all of that um you know the
front is
there's just so much character in the
front um and there's obviously been some
work
i think this elevation doesn't i think
there's something up with uh
if that chimney is stepped back at that
window if it's just a graphic issue of
the elevation doesn't do it justice but
the modeling definitely helps um i think
my first impression
is one i don't like you know i look at
that valley that you've created with a
double
gable and i just see it leaking and
you're going to be up there all the time
patching a roof
um but you know it's your house so
this i worry that that's going to be
challenging with the
captain's nest and the double gables
coming together and then
um basically you have there's a there's
going to be a
cricket in there built up roof to kind
of slope the water away from that
that valley so um i think that's gonna
be a challenge
uh just the construction but i guess my
impression of the
the addition it looks like you had a
second floor deck
uh with these um the four by four posts
holding it up
that you ended up in closing uh and
we've seen that i've seen that around
and i don't i don't think the character
of that is is doing this house any
justice so i'd really be interested in
how you could
integrate the open patio which i think
is a cool idea the
kind of outdoor living space but the
columns and how that's detailed is going
to have to really work
well i think to um take it away from
this kind of
addition on stilts i think that is a i
have a problem with
i'd like that you're going to
potentially tie it into this trellis
so kind of carrying that idea through
architecturally is going to be important
to make all that work uh and i'm not
convinced on the massing
of the uh the two gables um and i
appreciate that you did that
investigation
uh didn't have other than one second
looking at it on screen
uh really time to dive into that um
and as mr bardwell said you know we
don't we don't typically design in these
meetings so it's not our protocol but
um i would continue to look at that and
it sounds like you're really trying to
protect that
that captain's nest uh and you know
there's
you know i would look at maybe making it
a flat roof between the left and right
gable
ends and and kind of bringing it back
through
uh you're already going to have some
membrane up there anyway because of the
slow slope
maybe you look at something like that
i'm not worried about the massing
i would i'm a little concerned about the
flush
nature of the additions on on the the
two sides of the house
those tie-ins are very difficult uh and
and we typically like to see those
stepped in a little bit more
um and i think in those details i'd
really want to
be interested in seeing how those
transitions work but um
overall i think that the the covered
areas the the the spindly columns just
needed a little bit more ornamentation
and
and some more uh detail to kind of make
those work
uh but i think overall that the
proportions and the renderings the 3d
views
i think work out well that that one
neighbor view that that's doing the
from the edition side where they're
doing their addition
seemed a little large uh it's pretty
large side of the house
um but i think but i get it you know
there's
you're kind of putting this two-story
edition on and uh that's the bulk of the
the massing but all the other views i
thought
were fairly proportionate so i don't
have a trouble with that but
i sure like to see a little bit more
detail on the um or actually a lot more
detail on that covered outdoor living
area and then
um some more options on this roof
uh peter it's uh i'll uh i will echo the
comments of
of my colleagues uh and i'll emphasize
a couple of them uh one of which is
pete said and i believe it's your north
elevation where
you're essentially extruding uh
from front to back in one plane uh
i think that you will regret
that uh because it it
again for the reasons of shade and
shadow that i mentioned in the earlier
application but also
uh as you're as you're aligning
uh new and old materials uh
in a in the same plane
that just that is a real
challenge so i urge you to at the very
least
have a significant change in plane there
whether it's
six inches or a foot or more so that's
that's one issue the other
issue is as pete had addressed
uh he used the word stilts and spindly
uh and i think uh the way you have
it it's arguably okay to have a second
floor mass over an open area
uh we see that done but
this i i don't know how to say this
kindly
but this has too much of a of a beach
feel to it
uh that is is not at all something that
i would find
appropriate to the character of bexley i
think you can
solve that by making it
appear far more substantially supported
but right now i think it needs a
significant amount of work
i would also like to add i'm not
convinced and i would love
to see options of like alternate
materials
having it all be the same siding as the
main house
i think there's other options there that
may make these successful
uh as part of this edition so i would i
would suggest looking at other ways to
to declare this edition or or parts of
the massing of this edition
uh that makes it a little differentiates
it from the the main house and i think
that'll help
balance out the scale of some of these
mass i would agree with that and i think
a change of color could even help
to to help in the massing i
i agree and i'll i'll simply add a
concluding point on my part is that to
me
uh your roof issues
over the new portion are
actually the least of your problems i
think you have other
elements to address here that are equal
to or greater than the roof issues
mind expanding on some of those things
well it's consistent with what you've
just heard
from me and others it has to do with
materiality it has to do with the
extension
uh of planes it has to do with
uh the uh the the nature of your of your
projection of the second floor
over an open area that appears
to be uh stilt-like
and not consistent with what we would
see in bexley so
i i think your problems are solvable
but i urge you to go back and take
another look
that's fair this is actually a scaled
back version that
um the covered porch area our covid
porch was
uh originally designed to be the new
kitchen and so it was a solid
mass down there pricing did not support
that
and so we thought it best to take
advantage of an
outdoor space that was covered where
we felt safe meeting with uh friends and
family outdoors given
the current climate but uh i do
understand
uh the feedback and and i can appreciate
that
and again i'll encourage you that's all
solvable it this
uh that particularly this latter point
of the open area under the
the second floor area the those are
solvable
my sense is they sim it simply needs to
look
to appear to be better enclosed and
better supported
yeah sam i i think if this was solid
like interior space i would like it a
lot less
i like the kind of uh this kind of
in a way this kind of mass over the
stilts i just don't think
i think there's a better way to connect
it to the ground that can make it a
little bit more um
you know purposeful and less uh like you
enclose the
porch up there so i think there's
definitely some simple ways to do that
um
and through detailing so i think it's
just from some further development
well you know looking at these two right
here that i have on the screen
is really telling because you know they
look like two completely different
houses so
you could get just by keeping the front
in mind or the sides
of what's existing i think you could get
some really good clues
how to reproportion those columns and
you know details perhaps those i mean
you have some
like stone piers there on the front
elevation
you know perhaps those come back you
know to this portion at the back where
you already have the columns
you know that might help uh make it feel
less spindly
if it was something similar to that and
i i
i agree with what uh with that with what
jocelyn has said
and and again we can take cues from
uh dozens of other uh prior examples and
and uh the fact is that when you have a
large element like this sitting over
open air you're looking
for something visually to support it and
and that
usually is represented by some
fairly deep horizontal element that
visually
appears to carry it and that could be
a straight form it could be an arch form
but but right now you're just carrying
your siding right down to the point that
you turn under the soffit
that's that's a great comment i do so so
to me you you
you need some clear distinction of
visually how this is being supported
that that may not be
be the physical manifestation about
supported but visually
you need to make it appear to be
supported or
brackets and other uh elements like that
exactly
yeah that's why i was kind of pointing
out the origin you know
even just a simple piece of trim right
to terminate the siding and
and feel like it's sitting on beans per
se but yeah i think it's it's just
detailing of
of those columns and making sure they
they work well i'm not saying they need
to be stone or
even even thicker i do i think it's just
the detailing of them yep
if pricing is an issue stone columns may
be also out of the picture
well i i appreciate all that though i
and we had looked at a version that had
uh trim at corners and everything but
the the existing
house also has um none of those features
and it felt like i was yet adding
something else and
i i understand and appreciate it um
yeah the um south side it actually
it's a it's a four-inch separation off
the wall the plane i was trying to be
deferential there
and on the north side the reason that it
aligns is that
my client is um an amazing lovely
fantastic person who has not paid me for
this project but
um she nevertheless um really wanted a
specific bathtub in that corner that
i just ran out of inches for and uh i
i wholly agree but um i can
i wholly agree about the feedback of
stepping it back and being
out of plane there and i will just need
to find some inches somewhere else so
um i appreciate everything and i guess
i'm going to ask
if you would please table this
application
i need a board member to propose that
do we want a table to a certain date or
just table it and let the applicant
decide when he wants to return
sam do you want to come back next month
we don't have to re-notice if you
um par or or you can leave it open
um i would i would love to come back
next month and try to resolve these
issues
okay so we need a motion to table this
until june 10th
so moved second
i will call the role mr bardwell yes mr
scott
yes mr krosky yes madame tony
yes okay thank you sam we'll see you
back next month
thank you
okay you know um and we keep
forgetting to ask if there's someone in
the audience that wants to comment
yeah um if i was someone in the audience
please raise your hand as we're going
through these applications and you'd
like to speak on them
so and just so you know i've been
checking the whole time
okay thanks um
okay the next and last item on the
agenda
except that we need to talk about an
additional other business item that we
just added
on which should be short but the last
full agenda item is
um 155 south roosevelt
okay it's application arv 21-40 155
south roosevelt the applicant is bryant
marzich
the owner is david ornstein the
applicant is seeking architectural
review and a certificate of
appropriateness for a one-story addition
to the northwest corner of the existing
structure
and we'll get karen's yeah
um and i'll want me to jump in karen and
give us a little bit of background
i would i'm gonna let kathy first do um
a little zoning staff report because in
looking at the drawings we realize this
actually is more than arb it's a bzap
application because of
slight variance right and i i did go
back and had asked the applicant some
questions getting dimensions so i could
determine
and cross off these zoning uh issues
and the applicant had uh indicated that
he had submitted his architectural
review because he knew he had to go to
the board
regardless if he needed a variance
but he needed a recommendation if he did
need a variant so
he did need a variance we did get that
notification out today so he will be on
the june
20 i'm sorry the may 27th meeting
so this is a recommendation on a
one-story addition
that is proposed at five feet 11 inches
from the
side yard property line
okay um first of all i
i don't see brian um
oh there you are okay i'm putting brian
and the owner in
in the panelist room
okay i i really don't have um a lot of
problem with this
particular edition let me run through
the drawings
i'm going to let brian explain it they
um i
i mean and brian explained the history
to me but i'm going to let him go
through it that it
um kind of went from a porch edition to
a full kitchen renovation and then
into a connected wraparound
porch edition that connects into the
kitchen
um i don't have any real issues with it
we had a little bit of confusion with
the
the variants needed but it's not um
not for this board but we we do need it
to be a recommendation to be
zap with any conditions that the board
may see fit
but um i don't have any problems with it
is brian in that yes we have brian we
have brian in the panelists room as well
as
um i believe the owner is it michelle
ornstein i don't know if it's just
um michelle or
um both owners but it's michelle and
david orenstein hello
could you raise your right hands and uh
be sworn
gerald yes they're up okay
uh do you saw me swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
absolutely
yes did we hear from brian too
sorry i'm very sorry i was muted yes
thank you
[Music]
okay brian or the owner whichever um
please go ahead and start presenting
your project no
i'll go ahead and uh show it uh
you know the owner they've been living
with this really narrow kitchen for a
while and they had
had dreams of of of expanding that
as well as uh adding a mud room
um area and then obviously a covered
porch so it kind of grew into what we're
proposing
tonight uh and in that sort of making it
um you know sort of optimal from an
interior perspective with a nice modern
kitchen with an island and
plenty of cabinetry it pushed uh to the
north side
uh and one and when we started putting
some you know site dimensions on this
thing we that's when
we obviously realized that we're in the
setback
uh the house itself the side yard
setback on the north side
in particular the house itself is
already um
non-conforming uh there's a portion
uh if you look at the site plan
uh portion of the toward the front of
the house that's actually
in the side yard already um
which shell which um drawing did you
want me to uh if you pull up the site
if you can zoom into the site plan it
kind of shows the overall
um yeah please
there we go so that
yeah so
obviously what is shaded is our proposed
addition and covered
porch but towards the front of the house
there's sort of a gable that faces north
that's
already over uh the side yard setback
and so we obviously
kept it minimal uh in in doing
uh what we did as far as uh going over
the side yard
uh it feels very spacious over there
there's plenty of room
uh between you know even this part of
the house and the neighbor's house
and i believe the owners are good
friends with the neighbors and they
uh if they didn't get a letter they have
verbal confirmation of approval
everything else seems to be i believe uh
pretty straightforward
do the owners want to talk at all
there you go yeah um yeah
we're just looking forward to having a
grown-up kitchen
and really getting uh cleaning up
something that encroaches our gazebo
encroaches more
across the allotted space with the the
setback um than what we're gonna do so
the gazebo will be coming down
and i just think it'll look better for
the whole neighborhood it's gonna be a
pretty cool design
okay yeah and i forgot to mention you
know part of the efforts in this was to
really
not just gain a kitchen but gain uh
a backyard i mean they obviously have
one but it's
it's it's divided in half by this gazebo
uh and sort of pull some of those
elements attached
and so they're gaining not just a larger
kitchen but a much use
much more usable backyard
okay um let's start with board members
um pete you want to go first
sure the whole roof is going to be
standing seam metal roof
it looks like uh i worry i think your
corner
one i have to say the existing house
in all my years of working in
architecture i've never seen
gutters like i seen on your house
uh how they kind of ride up on the the
rakes of your gable roof
um to kind of pick up some of the i'm
assuming the runoff from the
the gables um so you obviously somebody
has designed a system to help pick up
some of the water
runoff of the existing house um
with the addition of all these different
roofs into one of those corners where
that runoff is
i'm assuming has been an issue uh i
worry that
um the detailing of that is and this is
really not
an overall overreaching design comment
but it's
a concern i have with standing seam
metal roof and all of the details
associated with that
um that that may be a challenge to do
plus you have very little space below
your one window on that one facade so if
you go into the rendering of the
elevations now we could see that
where in a standing seat metal roof
there's that the the high
high end of the roof flashing that has
to happen
uh that all has to fit underneath that
existing window uh and i'm concerned
there may not be enough room
so obviously that's parts part of the
details associated with the construction
uh and something that doesn't isn't
governed here but i'm concerned that
that would probably
lower your roof line in this specific
view here
where you have the the gabled roof that
we see on the second floor
the elevation of the the side profile of
the main gable roof of the house
the metal standing seam metal roof of
the addition and how
that corner happens there at the that
intersection of those three roofs
one i'm not sure this is drawn exactly
correct because
that addition roof would have to extend
past that existing
it's just really a funky condition and
i'm worried with the existing roof and
the metal
existing as asphalt with the metal roof
all of those transitions are going to be
pretty messy there so i think you should
pay
special attention to that uh the other
thing is uh
the roof venting will be an issue here
too
so uh just being pay special attention
to those details i think
would be my concern overall design of
of the project i think is is nice i
think i think the
the floor plan uh is a great solution
and i think is
probably the most exciting part of the
project because i think
looking at what the existing conditions
are uh i think it's
uh it's great that you're looking at
doing that addition so i have no problem
with the overall massing
uh or even you know long as the windows
and the sightings uh transitions work
them
i think it's great thank you
thank you peter would you like to go
next
uh i will simply echo what pete has said
uh i am generally okay with the overall
design intent
uh but as pete has said it
placing a roof pitch under
a window is very unforgiving you have
very a very small tolerance
and i would simply urge that all of
those details be worked out well in
advance
of any construction
and i think one thing more thing to add
is i would be interested in seeing
instead of having the the deck the
pressure treated deck floating
having some condition where that
underneath the deck was
closed off so not having it just be open
air i think would be important
great great advice there's actually talk
about maybe working out a way
to make that the actual deck portion
stone uh but that's that's great advice
and as far
and you know to speak to the roof uh
i i understand completely and your your
your uh
both of your inputs are are
well received uh there might even be a
chance to just lower the whole assembly
you know make that outside wall of the
kitchen a little bit
lower uh to just gain some clearance
there as well
but that's great great comments
jocelyn would you like to speak
uh no i think most of the things were
already hit
uh okay so i'll go um i i guess i'm just
a little bit
worried about some of the details here
too just in this view that we're looking
at
where that standing seam roof doesn't
line up with the edge of that
of that gable and stuff some of these i
just
think there's a few things that feel a
little bit off about it
um so i guess from my perspective
i guess i'd like to see it come back
again just and have some of these
details
figured out a little more are other
board members in alignment with that
or are they okay having the city work
through all these details
well i agree with your concern
whether that needs to come back before
us or not i
i will defer to the to others of you on
the board and to karen
i would also uh if karen if the
reputational consultant
is comfortable with uh working with the
client and feels if it needs to come
back
um she can make that determination yeah
i'm perfectly comfortable working with
brian
um we've worked together quite a bit um
and
i'm very confident that he can iron out
these details and
again if i feel uncomfortable with
anything i'll just bring it back
okay thank you and just to speak about
where that roof
lands you know that is sort of one of
those things that was dictated
by the interior walls lining up uh so
there may be a way to massage that
actually
i don't know maybe make a return but
we're fighting some things there's some
mechanicals uh
gas line and things like that also
and you know just speak to it just a
little bit more it's
it's one of those things that i'm
assuming we're only really seeing in
dead-on elevation uh
that you know that view is from nowhere
maybe the
neighbors kitchen but other than that
yes
still great advice and well taken
yeah originally when i saw this i
thought man i really would like to see
this
in 3d just to see how it all kind of
comes together um but i understand
sometimes that's very difficult to do
but
i think as you work through some of
these if karen can help make sure that
some of this stuff gets cleaned up
i think it'll make the project much much
nicer so
okay so um we will approve with
conditions that it ends up
but that karen will work through some of
the details with you is that
sound good fair enough
so it is a recommendation to be zapped
so you'll be going to be
that intuitive yes
you like me to read the findings yes
please
do we have anybody in the audience i
have not seen any hands yet but i will
give them
one last opportunity if anybody has any
comments in the audience
please raise your virtual hand we think
it's good
i know i know better because i have to
allow them to talk
um that's it we have known
okay you guys so the
findings of fact and decision of the and
finding surface conclusions of law for
application number arb-21-40
for property located at 155 south
roosevelt
for a proposed one story edition the
board recommends to the board of zonian
planning
approval of a certificate of
appropriateness with the condition
that the applicant work with the design
consultant on refinements
so do you understand the findings of
fact as they were stated
yes
thank you does someone want to make that
emotion
i need a board member i'll make that a
motion
i will second you
uh i'll call the roll uh mr scott
yes ms krosky yes
mr bardwell yes adam tony
yes thank you thank you so much
okay thank you very much thank you
good night good night good night
okay we have a court um uh that is new
business
um karen do you want to explain what's
why you guys we just kind of lump this
into other business
i wasn't really sure kathy and i both
weren't really sure what to do about
this
this is um a cedar shake roof that
um has just a lot of damage
are you still supposed to be on youtube
what
are we supposed to still be live yes
yeah
all right oh okay all right yeah in fact
uh the owner's probably
there okay oh i wasn't sure i didn't
realize
i'm sorry yeah no what happens in um
roofs that are i mean slate roofs always
come to the board and
you're right jocelyn this is i'm making
assumptions that like we
don't have in place a good orientation
program yet so
there would be um it's not a surprise
that this is
confusing but um cedar shake is one of
those that
we don't really have a defined
pocket whether i do them or whether the
board
approves them and i always air as kathy
has taught me well
on the side of caution to bring it
forward to you
cedar shake has typically been approved
to be changed out
in bexley because the weather is just so
difficult on them and um you know
providing that there is a
good architectural dimensional shingle
that's
chosen or another kind of material
um it's typically approved
um it's not as rigorous as a process as
slate but i have tended to take them to
the board because
it's just hard for me to know what to do
sometimes
because then i'll hear about it so i
like i like to show it to all of you
but this applicant also gave a lot of
pictures so you could see the damage
um you know
um i think this is it there's a lot of
duplicative stuff here but i'll just
kind of go through it
so how can i can i just ask because we
really didn't get any
information on this to read ahead of
time what how old is this roof
well i'm gonna have to ask the um owner
to okay
that um and i kathy i don't remember who
the owner if you could raise your hand
if you're here for this
and karen before we proceed
what is our chart what is the ask
on this i'm asking you to give me
permission to help them
find a replacement roof so they're
they're not proposing a
system asphalt or they
are go ahead kathy sorry they they are
proposing asphalt as they
they're having a difficult time finding
the cedar shake
so he further provided that the
seriousness of the damage on the
existing roof
and typically with a roof they've got
awful leaks inside
it's it's a problem so we thought it
best to not
set them back a month but in fact bring
it to the board so that
you know if you're comfortable with
karen working with them on a proposed
asphalt shingle
but also they have asphalt shingles on a
front porch roof i believe
but we can ask the applicant about that
so am i correct
this would not return to us that what
you're seeking is
our uh concurrence that this would be
remanded to karen
or if you would like to you know weigh
in on
on what's proposed you know once we get
the applicant
yeah i'm act i'm asking for some
informal discussion and feedback
i'm not asking for exam you know i'm not
asking for a decision
i'm asking for um reaffirmation
that we had probably like five years ago
that said
let karen do this and i'll simply weigh
in and i'll welcome comments from
everyone else but i
i don't know that we need a need to ask
the applicant or their representative to
speak to this we
we we certainly know the issues
associated with an aging
roof of this nature and
i don't know that we have all of the
information we'd like to render a
decision
other than i would suggest to
remand it to you to the degree that
you're comfortable moving this forward
and if you at any point feel
uncomfortable that it would come back to
the board
that is my position also okay
i just wanted to i wanted to hear from
the board
oh no for sure don't
do anything but see your shakes or karen
can help
with finding a replacement there's not
much cedar left though
exactly well that's the other issue is
that you just can't get it
and the interior you know i i do have
the applicant here but i
i've if they have any questions but i've
heard what i need to hear
i guess my only comment would be that i
hope that they would replace it with
something
that had a lot of dimension to it and
tried to keep the character
um and the color i think is very
important too that you know it has a
a good color that goes well with the
house
yes i i totally agree yes
i i lived in house with wood roof for a
lot of years i
actually put two different wood rooms on
a house and
they are a lot of maintenance you
literally have to have someone come out
and replace the shingles every year
and if you don't do that and you don't
keep the moss off of it
and all that it will not last very long
so
yep so are we do we need to you need to
vote from us then or what do you need
i don't need a vote i just wanted to
make sure that we're all
comfortable and and to kind of reaffirm
what we had already
i mean went to only peter was even on
the board at the time
peter bardwell but we every five or ten
years we re
we bring these things up again because i
want to just reaffirm that our newborn
composition is comfortable with this
with me doing
and that is just for the owners sake of
hearing it i'll repeat
i'll repeat what you've already heard i
will be looking for
a very um you know good profile
dimensional shingle and color those are
the two things that i
i'll be very um critical on
okay that's all you need from us then
yeah that's it
that's all i need and so if that we can
adjourn
i believe we can yes how do you like
that
have a great evening okay thank you all
all right have a good night
bye everyone
you