here madame tony
here um and then
this is the time for public comment so
this is an opportunity for any person to
provide
comments to the board on any item that
is not on the board's meeting agenda
so any comments relating to items on the
agenda may be made by those with
standing when the matter is before the
board for consideration
is there anyone who wants to speak on
any matter
in the audience is there anyone in the
audience who wants to speak on any
matter that is not
on the board's agenda tonight if you do
please raise your hand and karen will
see your raised hand
at the bottom and let you in and that
needs to be your virtual hand
just to remind anybody who's never been
on zoom before
um i'll give everybody a second
and i do not see any hands raised
okay um the next item on the agenda is
the approval of minutes from
last month which was our february 11
2021 meeting
peter bardwell moves to approve the uh
meeting
minutes and do i have a second
second uh larry hellman seconds
okay um cathy do you want to call the
roll
um mr scott yes mr heyer
yes mr hellman yes dr bardwell
yes madam tony yes
okay um we're getting into our
applications then
um so our first applications are
our consent agenda items so these are
being recommended
um for a certificate of appropriateness
to either
be zap or they are being granted a
certificate
of appropriateness from arb
and so i will read down through this
list of
applications at the end of this list if
there's anyone in the audience that
would like to speak on behalf of any of
these consent agenda items
please raise your hand and karen will
let you speak um
after i get done reading all of them i
also just wanted to clarify before you
start
that any of these items um that board
members had comments
or suggestions to have been accepted by
the applicants
i didn't send that out as an email but i
want you all to know that i have relayed
any comments recommendations or even
conditions
and they have all been accepted
everything that you've written to me so
that is why they
are on there go right ahead sorry okay
so the first is application arb 21-5
the location is 929 vernon road the
applicant is keith
muller the owners are russell abrams
the consent the second consent item is
bzap 21-01 the location is 46
parkview the applicant is robert miller
the owner owner is georgia rush
the third is application arb 21-8
the location is 987 francis
the applicant is suncraft corporation
incorporated
the owner is john and julie mosca
the next application is bzap 21-8
the location is 489 north view
the applicant is jos pritevich
the owner is amy wanzo and chris bell
the next one is application arb
the location is 724 grand in the
applicant
is brian zingelman the owner is jeff and
molly benson
next is application bzap 21-11
the location is 887 college the
applicant is tom beardsley
keith muller the owner is erica r flynn
next is application arb 21-12 the
location is 130 south remington
the applicant is thaddeus jones the
owner john and colette worthman
next application is arb 21-14
the location is 902 vernon avenue
the applicant is amy lauerhouse the
owner is
keith jorgensen and sonja ford
the next one is application arb 21-15
the location is 216 north roosevelt
the applicant is amy lauerhouse the
owner is smith conant
um uh yeah that's it
the next one is application arb 21-16
the location is 2333 sherwood
the applicant is amy lauerhouse the
owner is todd everett and jessica audi
the next one is application arb 21-21
the location is 295 south dawson
applicant is amy lauerhouse the owner is
pollock
and the last one is application arb
21-23
the location is 234 north ardmore
the applicant is brian marsich
if there are any members of the audience
that would like to speak to any of these
cases could you please raise your hand
um we have one applicant
um eloise bucher
so you want to go ahead and yeah explore
her
let her in and swear her in please mute
i don't know if you can see us um
perhaps there's some
protocol here we can hear you you can
hear me that's
probably good enough i'm here with my
husband
robert cahill we live at 720 grand
and so we're right to the north of 724
grand
i'm 24. okay can i swear you in is this
can you please state your name
eloise bucher you saw me swear or from
the testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
i do thank you i do
thank you um okay so eloise do you
understand what's happening here we are
um running these through a consent
agenda that these projects have been
approved
is that do you understand what's okay
thank you that is helpful so
we simply want to say that we're really
pleased with this
project and very happy with it and
we think the design is perfect to
protect the privacy of our homes
but also the flow between the two
neighbors and so we want to really let
you all know that we support this
project
great thank you very much okay thank you
so much
you're welcome
no other hands so we can go ahead and
vote on this or have a motion
okay do i have a move to approve i move
to approve
mrs peter thank you
have a second all
second bill
all right okay can i call the roll mr
scott
yes mr heyer yes
mr hellman mr barbara
yes madam chair yes
thank you okay
before we move on i just wanted to thank
all the board members and the applicants
because without
lots of time and work we wouldn't have
gotten to so many con consent agenda
items
thank you okay we'll get into our
regular agenda item then
um which starts with application c
which is uh bees app 21-03 the location
is 269 ardmore
the application the applicant is marcia
mckeil
the owner is jacob and elizabeth garrett
the applicant is seeking a
recommendation for a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story addition
to the primary structure and a two-story
garage
okay um i'm kathy do you want me to
start
sure okay um it's uh the applicant is um
america mckeil sorry i
did that the first time i transposed
letters too sorry i apologize for that
um and this application
there's kathy's gonna speak to the
zoning or not or no zoning
after i'm done with the architecture
review
staff report but this application is for
an addition to an existing home
it is a traditional very traditional
bexley home brick brick
brick home and the applicant is
proposing
a pretty contemporary addition on the
backside
as well as a contemporary garage
i'm going to kind of speak to the two
things separately
the the addition to the home although we
can
talk about style and i'm sure we will
um we in bexley strive hard to not
dictate a style
and when i evaluate in addition to a
house whether it's contemporary or
whether it is a traditional house
i look for things that cause that show
relationships between the two
formally whether or not they match in
style
the addition to this house i think does
that it has
uses the brick it uses some of the
shapes of the windows
it uses um aboard a band board
where it matches up with where the floor
plate is on the original house
so um stylistic discussion aside
as a stat as the staff person those are
the things i look for and i do think
that there
have been some successful moves on the
back of the house for this edition
um having said that when you look at the
elevation which i have
here i am not very convinced
that the view from the street of the
gara
of the new garage up against the facade
of the other
of the original home um speaks to each
other in the same way that the
edition does on the back i'm also
concerned about the size of it
architecturally i'm not speaking about
zoning i think
they're they look unrelated and it looks
like a smaller secondary
um structure a secondary it looks like a
secondary home
so i am concerned about the garage more
than the addition
um i'm also going to let kathy speak to
anything else staff wise that she may
want to
so originally this was filed as an
architectural review board application
and after going through the plans and
and
looking at the numbers and what was
proposed
it clearly is a two-story structure
first four was exceeding the 10-foot
uh story height limit and the
you know we tend to use that volume for
the second floor space
which if you use the gross floor area of
the
balcony roof coming out it's it's
basically
you know even though that ceiling floor
to ceiling is smaller than the
first floor it's still a 91 percent
of the first floor so working with the
applicant
you know she she wants to try to work
with the code to see if she can create
something that
looks modern to match the addition of
the house
but also meets the criteria
of the zoning code for accessory
structures
so you know we were still even crunching
numbers today and i there was some
conflicting information
because also the roof of the addition to
the house
came within 10 feet of the detached
garage
and the applicant had later provided a
survey which
comparing the survey measurements 53.3
by 150 feet in deep for this lot
conflicts with information that i've got
in the application so
i i had a difficult time trying to
come up with accurate footprint lot
coverage as well as
overall lot coverage with certain
numbers that are provided in the code
the overall could be 61 percent i
understand the applicant is
you know trying to meet all the code so
they can simply
run this through as an architecture
review application but karen and i
thought it was
at least worthwhile for the applicant to
uh go before the board and at least hear
some discussion regarding the design
before she
you know goes to all the effort of
making further changes to the garage so
that's that's where we are at this point
and i'm happy to flip back and forth to
any drawings that anybody
might want to see the renderings are now
up on um
the website they have been for quite a
few for a few days now but i know
at first yeah i also wanted to say
to and then i'll um hand it over to you
guys
that we have jacob garrett and america
mckeel on as panelists now who are the
apple
owner yeah can we swear them in so that
they can go ahead and
do their presentation
so are they are they can you hear me now
yes okay sorry i took it off mute
would you see me okay on the video
okay please state your name starting
with you america
um america mchill
and mr garrett you want to state your
name sure jacob gary
do you soundly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes i do i do thank you
okay go ahead with your presentation
please
okay um well first of all i just want to
thank
everyone for their time and
consideration um
i'm i really look forward to getting
um input from the panel we have here
tonight
um i would like to say 269 south ardmore
road is the house i grew up in
um it's i bought it from my parents
my hope is that someday my one of my
three daughters will live here they can
fight it out but
you know that's that's my sincere hope
um
i remember the addition my parents put
on the current edition which were
sort of uh replacing um
and you know i remember that they had a
budget
that uh now is kind of reflected in the
state of the edition
so and i think it's time to kind of
update the materials and the
craftsmanship
associated with that original edition
and i i should say the same about the
garage as well
um though they didn't add it so really
what we're trying to
i think you said it well karen we're
trying to merge a more classical
architecture
of the older structure with a
contemporary addition and a new garage
and what i i would also want to say is
we have no intent of submitting a design
that is outside of the
zoning code so
if there's a push and pull on design i
just want to say that
we we don't intend to submit anything
outside of the code as written so um and
and we will you know we can we can go
from there
um but i understand there are some
nuances of the design that are
are worthy of discussion and for that
reason
i'm i kind of just i'm hopeful that i
can hear what this panel has to say
tonight regarding the you know the
design and so that we can
we can guidance and
and make um you know whatever changes
may you know may better fit with what
you guys are looking for
does that make sense okay great
um you know at this point i guess i
would turn it over to america she can
she can speak to the design you know
aesthetic
and what we're going for here
um thank you jacob um yes i also want to
say thank you for
um for all of your time and um hopefully
your comments this evening
um i look forward to this discussion um
and i think i i think karen uh you know
presented it well
so um i don't need to to go back through
it i think it's
i think it's clear i hope it's clear but
i'm happy to to answer any questions and
talk you through
anything
okay thank you uh board do i have
questions um for the applicant
or staff or anyone
before we start karen i just i guess i'm
a little bit curious as we start to talk
about whether
this two-story garage needs to go to
bee's app and stuff
does that really affect us i mean in the
end you guys will decide whether it
needs to go
in front of these app we are really only
looking at the architecture right
correct okay and like i said in my staff
report i
you know stylistically
that is becomes very subjective in terms
of what gets added onto the back but
the things i look for in my evaluation i
feel that the
the back edition um
is really on the right track i'm very
concerned about the garage
okay massing wise okay
okay do i have questions from the board
then yeah that i'd be happy to start off
here
um you know we have a bunch of small
lots
or close quarters there's degree
uniformity house to house
and we always try to seek some balance
between what can be done on an
individual lot
versus the relationship to neighboring
houses and this raises i think two
issues
uh that we deal with as the arb that is
scale
and compatibility and i think it's part
of our function to determine the balance
between
what an individual can do and what that
means in terms of its impact
on the surrounding properties in the
typical case
most of our garages the vast majority
have have roots
and so while you might have a 20 foot
ridge line
you have roof that then slopes down to
the property line
in this application the roof is
consistent 20 feet
which means that the height
and the relationship you have a six foot
fence
and then you have 14 feet of wall that's
above that fence so i have some serious
concerns about privacy
impact on neighbors as it pertains to
this style
not the 20-foot height but this style as
it impacts what it does on the
neighboring properties
i would point out that the rendering and
this is hard for me because i know this
family well they're great great great
people
but if you even look at the rendering uh
please put the other one back on for a
second if you would um
it does not show the four feet
setback line that would be off the right
side of the garage the north side of the
garage
nor what a fence would be uh nor any of
the other
adjacent garages so i have some concern
about that there has
there's uh uh an example at bexley park
and gould of a uh
i don't know how that got approved or
even if it is approved it's that modern
house
and they had a they have a two-story
play room or i don't know what it is
it's much smaller than this
and it reads like a guard house and it
looms over
the neighboring properties and so i i do
have concern with that
and i think it would dramatically change
this if the style
means that the roof has to be 20 feet uh
uh uniformly uh then i do have problems
with the
the design of the garage because i think
it would dramatically change the
characteristic of the neighborhood and
i'm not sure
that's in our best interest or uh the
applicant's best interest
i have no problem with the rest of the
edition i think it's well done
uh and thoughtful so my problem is as
stated
thank you mr hellman next board member
uh this is mr bardwell and i will offer
it
a a more fundamental question
that i think the city has moved beyond
but the fact is
that as the use is
shown this could
ultimately become a separate
residence and this is
obviously in a single family
residential area and i will simply
offer the caution that this becomes an
enforcement issue for the city in the
future
should the applicant's family ever
decide to
sell this residence that this could
become a separate
multi-family residential use
thank you mr bardwell mr heyer mr scott
do you have statements or questions
um go ahead pete you sure
yep go ahead um at first when i was
looking at the elevations i was uh
i did i didn't get it i didn't get the
um
the concept of how these two the
existing and the new structures
uh we're going to relate so the
the addition of the renderings helps
immensely so thank you um
my only other than what's already been
stated about the massing
and if you can leave it on this
elevation or this rendering i'd be
uh i'd be appreciative i i think i have
just the the only concern i have is the
existing brick veneer
that's at the existing house you have
you've purposely have aligned
the new edition with that brick veneer
um and i i i'd like to hear your
approach to
to why you did that because i think
traditionally we would see the little
bit of an
offset because of the veneer that that
brick veneer
and that new material um
[Music]
you typically wouldn't see that now in
modern architecture uh
you you're allowed to break those
traditional rules and i get that
so i'm much more interested in hearing
your approach to why
you would want to do that uh and um
you know just the overall approach so is
this that
this a good um where are you talking it
is that's
and then plan i just was looking at the
plan the plan obviously calls out
directly for those surfaces to be
aligned
uh so i think i would like to hear from
the applicant of just the
the approach to um to that now
one thing i will state and i think that
i think the elevation drawings
as i said said originally gave me some
concern just on
on what we are going to get and and one
of the tasks you know not only seeing
the existing structures
um i look for is i go to the uh the
submitting
architects if they're available's
website and i can see the
quality of the work that they do so that
helps immensely too to kind of
understand the renderings and
pulling us all together so that that
worry for me is gone
but i think it's just the alignment of
those different materials
on that one facade that uh brings me
some concern
right here yeah so what i would say
before i let the technical expert speak
is just so for some background right now
there is a break there and it becomes
vinyl siding
which maybe my mom's listening in but
i'm not a big fan of
of it um so that it is there is a break
there
in in the current uh form but
anyway i'll i'll um stop and let america
speak to it at this point
um well uh so a little bit to jacob's
point is
um what's existing we didn't we didn't
want to i mean
i won't say we didn't want to change too
much what's existing because obviously
we have
um and first i should say thank you mr
scott uh for your comments about
our work or what you've seen and the
renderings
um so in my designs we do often align
um and we very much are concerned about
lines lining up and things
and uh and and that sort of thing but i
will say that we're also concerned with
two materials coming together
and so you're absolutely right with your
question um
we wanted to keep the are the new
um renovation of the existing edition
the same as the old edition but that
would be one of those details that we
would absolutely draw
because those two materials should not
just butt up against each other
and whether it's a reveal or you know we
would pull them apart
but obviously be very concerned about
water um and how the materials did come
together but that is definitely one
you know any time two materials come
together especially when they
are in flame um then there is another
there is a
special detail that happens with that so
beyond just concern with water
and the actual um building envelope
i'm more concerned with those materials
and how they touch each other
hey do you have any other comments yeah
no i'm i'm done thank you very much
um i might add sorry to sorry to
interrupt
but what you can't see and what we
haven't detailed quite yet
um is the wood material on the garage
which you know i do understand
still essentially the same plane so i'm
not arguing against that
but you may be able to see that there is
a slight
um the wood material at the top does
sort of
step out um beyond
the brick for just that reason because
in general the two materials coming
straight together is not something that
we
we think is a good design
is this a good example of that area
thank you karen
okay thank you mr heyer
uh mike my comments have to do with uh
two things
um one is i believe that bexley garages
should look like bexley garages whether
they're modern
or not and this does look like a small
house it doesn't look like a bexley
garage
just typologically so i think that needs
to be rethought
i also am concerned about the
second floor of the addition the eve
alignment because you have
an existing hip roof on the house with a
with i believe a slate roof
and this overlap looks very disjointed
especially at the upper corner there
where they come together where this this
new
eve band is much taller than the
existing
um and i think that really this should
be pulled down
in some way so that the top of the eve
aligns with the top of the eve on the
house
and then the overlap would occur um i
think that would be a much
nicer detail to to pay tribute to the
eve height
of the existing house in some way um
other than that i i i think it's well
done
um but i think those alignments are are
really important i would also
consider possibly breaking down the
scale of those eaves a little bit maybe
there are two faces instead of one
um this the material the materiality of
the existing house
has a series of details that are at a
smaller scale
and i know this modern architecture
wants to be more bold and
and proud but i think that um
we should probably pay tribute a little
bit more maybe the
maybe the bands become two bands instead
of one thick
band so i think they're i think the
ridgeline needs to come down
and i think the band should be broken
and i think the garage really needs to
be rethought
those are my comments
okay thank you so much um i think you
might have some raised hands karen
do you have anyone with standing that in
the audience that would like to speak
if anybody from the audience that has
standing would
that means you got notice would like to
speak to this
um please raise your virtual hand
i do not see any okay i did see someone
earlier so i thought maybe you did have
someone
i i believe the hand that was raised
earlier was an application
an owner of a consent agenda item and he
probably
had his his um designer probably now
told him
that um it's already passed okay
that's my guess because i didn't
recognize the name
yes okay uh at this point i'm going to
ask the applicant based on what you've
heard would you like to move forward to
go to a vote
or would you like to have your
application
tabled or how would you like to move
forward
um is there uh can i
can i ask some questions about some of
the comments so i have a little more
absolutely okay
so um all interesting points
um i did have a question about two of
the
objections and
maybe i'm just not understanding right
the the argument about the line of
sight um from the
um area above the garage
you know the of the where the cars are
parked um
isn't that i hear what you're saying but
is that does that differ from the other
two-story garages that we have
that i mean i have even in our neighbors
in my own alley
um i mean wouldn't that be the same
concern
there so i guess what i'm asking is is
it a window placement
because it's essentially the same
vantage point
so i didn't know if there was a more
specific
objection to that point and then along
those same lines
the objection about a separate dwelling
i mean
sort of a similar question is there's
something about this design that
differentiates it from
the multitude of other um garages
that actually have even a more defined
living space above you know where
people actually did live there in the
you know many many years ago
um is there something about this design
that makes it different from those other
garages that already exist
so it's sort of two questions but along
the same lines
i i guess regarding the the dwelling
unit
definition um
cooking bathing and toilet facilities
that's what constitutes a dwelling unit
so
you know we need to be aware you need to
be aware of you know what's
what can go in there we do allow
amenities but not
something that would make it a complete
dwelling unit
yeah i don't i don't want any stove up
there or anything like that trust me
um this is this is primarily a place
where
um i can go to work out to work from
home
and to play um uh a friendly game of
cards with my friends
uh so that's that's the purpose there
um but but and so i appreciate that i'm
more
i'm more asking about the design though
from that perspective
and some of the specific objections that
were raised whether it's a design or
just
inherent so yeah i'd
i'd be happy to uh revisit that
um we have seen garages of course that
have dormers
um and those dormers set within a roof
and so i would at least tend to the
argument that the roof becomes the
dominant element
and the dormer then is a subset of the
roof
uh this and in terms of a relationship
then to surrounding properties it still
has a ridge line
as the other garages do and it has some
compatibility in relation to those
this being 20 feet of a vertical face
four feet away from us maybe a six foot
fence again 14
feet of something that's right there it
does not slope away
it does not change and that's that's in
in my mind makes this a very unique
application and a one-off uh and that's
why i think it needs some
real careful consideration uh and to
that end i would also suggest that the
architect
provide a rendering that shows
the property line on the front rendering
and then also
shows this height this proposed height
in relation to the surrounding projects
and i think it will become
somewhat apparent what that might mean
in terms of change
in that whole complexion and certainly
privacy for neighbors
if it were a bigger lot if this were in
another spot
if this were farther away from a
property line so it became less of an
issue but it's four feet away
yeah and that makes sense to me so it's
not it's not really about the line of
sight because you can see out of the
windows of a dormer as much as you can
see out of the windows of this structure
it's it's more so that's not really the
issue it's it's more of the uh
um just the well i guess
the just the sheer face then i will
characterize it as
sensitivity and i'll echo everything
that mr hellman has said and that
ms voelker said at the outset is we
don't dictate
style but as mr helman has said
the issue that we're addressing with
this application
is proximity and that proximity
is so very close that
sensitivity becomes a major factor
okay um i think i understand that um
thank you
i'm not completely unconvinced that you
can do
a flat roof if it was within the zoning
which is not what we're here to talk
about but but they're kind of
inseparable at a certain point because
the size and the lack of relationship to
the
house whereas your addition has great
relationships to the house
are my architectural concerns
okay um may i ask something there yeah
thanks mr hellman could could you react
to karen's comment
i i the you've heard my comments
uh i wonder whether this could be done
at a lower level
i wonder whether you could pitch uh do a
roof pitch that would then
tie to the existing house pitch and have
dormers come out of that
i think the situation again rises and
again
i would like to see a drawing uh that
shows this in relation to the other
garages up and down
yes and i have that four foot section so
uh i
remain in those comments that's great i
and i absolutely that was the first
thing i wrote down is
what we're missing in our rendering we
will absolutely bring that next time and
i appreciate your comment
i understand
and just to be clear i didn't say i was
convinced i just said i'm not i'm
confused
no worries karen okay
are there any other board members that
have any last minute
remarks or questions before we
okay here i am i'm gonna yeah go ahead
one more question and i'm sorry this is
just because i think it might be more
productive
um what would you all think
i don't know if it's possible i may be
stepping on um karen or kathy's toes
um what would you think if i brought two
designs
to the next meeting as options and i
haven't obviously spoken with the
garretts about this
um and i say that because
there are some you know there are
there's a lot to address and we'd like
to do that and we absolutely will
is that are you opposed to two options
to discuss i don't have any problem with
that
at all does does any board member have
any problem with that i mean
i guess the worst thing that would
happen is that you would have a split
where you had some of us
that liked one and some that like the
other but um
if it helps you to gain more you know
knowledge about what we're looking for
i have no problem with it and i i would
actually
suggest that you submit it to um to
karen ahead of time because lots of
times she
sends it to us and we're reviewing
things you know a week before
so okay to the meeting you may only be
we only
may be talking about one anyway
excellent we absolutely will do that
to that point i often encourage
applicants
to show their process which
ends up a lot of times showing me a
series of designs
which proves why one won't work in one
will
so i mean if that's kind of where you're
going with that to show like this is
where what we could build to have what
we need and this is what we can build
you know that doesn't that's fine too
i just um i i will be able to garner
some comments from board members ahead
of time so the quicker we can get them
in the better
yeah no that's great and um no i would
certainly never present
either one that we didn't want i would
only present very acceptable
options but i understand what you mean
about us
our last conversation thank you
i think it's a good idea yeah i do too
okay so um america are you asking then
to um have this have your application
tabled until next month is that
uh yes you do yes i believe that's what
we would like to do
okay um do i have a board member that
can make a motion that way please
so moved back in
mr bardwell and that was mr scott who
was mr
thank you so much thank you both
all right thanks thank you very much
oh yes please call the roll mr scott yes
mr heyer yes mr hellman
yes mr bardwell yes madame tony
yes thank you
okay next application
sorry i'm going down my list that's all
right i think it's g
the next one that is not a consent
agenda item
on the yes is a21 granted yes
so it's application arb 21-10
the location is 821 grand in the
application is
taylor feifenberger the owner is
jeremy and lisa haas and the applicant
is seeking architectural review and
approval for a two and a half story
addition
and a third floor dormer
okay um
i yeah i want to talk about this one a
little bit
um because there's been some process
involved when you first
saw the first drawings um my reaction as
i'm sure
many of you were wow this is a skinny
house and a tall roof
um however the measurements didn't
really show that
i i asked taylor if um
she possibly had some kind of a 3d
rendering that could
more adequately show the massing of this
house because it's deceiving in
that the front elevation and she did and
i don't know that you have had
a chance or not to see new drawings so
i'd like to
just pop these up here really quick so
you can if you haven't seen them i've
added these to the website
this is a perspective the other issue
that i talked to taylor about in great
detail is
my um discomfort with the way that the
dormers were both on the front but also
more importantly how the windows were
situated so
she has sent me two additional options
new options i think i have them right
here there's one
i think that might be the same one so
hold on a second but i'll i'll
get the other one up there so there's
two new options i have put them in the
staff report so i think you have seen
them but i've also put them on here for
now
so um the other the other thing that i
had spoke to her about
is the back staircase i'm i'm really not
sure what to think of the back staircase
um at this point but
i'm comfortable working with taylor on
any of these issues but i think there
are a lot of them so i'd like to hear
what the board has to say
in the meantime i will continue to pull
up additional drawings that
um she's sent in and gets
um her into the attendees room
i just want to say that 3d um helps so
much compared to that elevation
yeah i mean the elevation is really
deceiving right
right and i had a lot of trouble
understanding it and i
i i have to tell you and she's not in
the room yet let me get her in the room
but um
it whatever the outcome is with this
project
kudos to her because within an
hour she had a perspective done and sent
to me when i
um explained my concern so um
you know i just wanted to compliment her
on that uh and now she's in the room
um we also see if there are the owners
jeremy and lisa haas
if you are here and want to get into the
room oh here we go
okay we should have all the we should
have both the applicant and the owner in
the room now
can we hear you hi
kathy's going to screw you in okay yeah
let's let's
start with the owner and then the
applicant if you'd state your names
hi my name is taylor peffenberger i'm
the applicant
and do we have the owner as well
there we go you had lisa
kathy yeah okay
please raise your right hands do you
solemnly swear or affirm the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
i do i do thank you
okay would you like to go ahead and give
your presentation
either owner or applicant whoever
i think karen did a great job of
describing
um what we've talked about over the last
48 hours
i think that the side elevation as well
as the perspective
give the best idea of what the
addition is going to look like the front
elevation while deceiving i think is
always necessary to include
um i have a little dashed line uh on all
of the elevations that show where the
existing house was
to show the comparison
um but other than that i mean i think
karen did a great job so i would love to
just
yield your questions i did forget to say
one more thing that
taylor did also respond to positively
in the elevation the front elevation and
plan you can see that
the original front porch edition cover
design
the shed roof was pulled all the way out
to the edges of the house which i
did not think looked appropriate so i
had also asked her
to pull it in a little bit which you can
see here
and to do the columns um you know
beam to to um
center center the beams correct the
correct way
okay uh drive board members that would
like to ask questions or make comments
on this application
one initial question uh were there
dimensions as to the proposed height of
this
yes the proposed height 30 feet sorry
that's where my confusion mr hellman
came in because the heights really not
that
out of the range but the the elevations
look so
tall so i thought this was helpful
uh and in addition um or a
dimension that i did not include on the
drawings if it's helpful at all the
existing
house is 24 feet tall so we're adding
about
six feet but the six feet is not at all
being added to
the front of the house obviously it's
only as you go back it's towards the
back of the house that it gets taller
have you have any chance to an
assessment tailor to see what the
uh house is around it the height of the
house is around it are
i'm just so the house to the
let me orient myself again the house to
the south
is approximately the same height i have
not had a survey done to measure them
but they're approximately the same
height
the one to the north is a much shorter
house
any other board members that have
questions or comments
i guess i would wonder whether there's
it's worth exploring alternatives that
would
have the addition uh gable onto the back
of the house
and not just you know rise up the the
this is a pretty large it's a pretty
small structure now turning into a
pretty large structure
and i i'm familiar with the street one
of the ones i drove down
and uh you know again i i like the idea
of this house being resurrected in some
fashion
turned around it deserves it it needs it
but again we have our ac basic issues
with scale and
compatibility to kind of deal with
so is your comment just saying that you
would prefer to see the gable on the
rear side
well i i don't know what we don't want
to design it and uh
but but whether there's another way of
handling the issue of a very long side
uh high it and and kind of you can see
it in relation to your neighboring
properties
and having that big expanse of side wall
is there a way that that can be
mitigated in some fashion it's just my
thought
okay
mr heyer mr scott do you have any
comments or questions
yeah i'll go because uh i live on
grandin
and so i know this neighborhood pretty
well
been living there since o2
my concerns have to do with the scale
and this street has a mixture of two bay
two-story houses and a lot of cape cod's
uh one and a half story houses um
i looked at the elevations and
i think honestly this is
not appropriate for this neighborhood
there are a couple of houses on our
street yes
that do have a third story i don't know
how those got approved
um but for the most part this street is
cape cod's and two bay two-story houses
i don't think the scale is appropriate
the ridge height is too tall
and personally i think that that
perspective is actually misleading
we had a house a few years ago that was
built on uh euclare and they added a
third floor and it just towers
over the other houses maybe not the
apartment building to the north but it
towers over it
and so my my recommendation is to really
rethink this where
the addition is subservient to the scale
of the two bay
two-story house even if a dormer was
added
to the front it should be within the
height
of the existing building given the
context of the other houses on this
street
i would not be in favor of voting for
this project as submitted
well i believe uh mike could probably
speak better to this but she spoke with
her neighbors
no one seemed at all offended by
this if that is any consolation um
i tried to keep the front looking
similar to what it is or to what it is
now
as possible and only keep the addition
to the back as much as possible
it is not a three-story structure i
i understand what you're trying to get
at but it is a two and a half story i
personally think it looks like a two and
a half story um
and the
dormer on the front honestly it's just
become such a long
roof that i think the dormer helped it a
little bit but
if that is a bigger concern we can
always reconsider that um we
had no intention of putting a dorm
around the back because we wanted
that to be covered in solar panels
yeah i mean i appreciate those comments
um i really think that the dormer the
way it's designed in elevation
is too big for the scale of the house
the perspective looks much better in
terms of the scale of the dormer
but i am not convinced by this design
and
uh it has to do with the scale of the
neighborhood
and we're really trying to um you know
be sensitive to
in additions uh in the arb to the
context of the neighborhood that it sits
in
so that we have the character of the
neighborhood continue
because that is one of the reasons why
people move
to south bexley in particular is the
character of that neighborhood and i
think this
addition actually transforms this house
into a very different
um it's a very different building than
what is there now
and the scale of the the buildings
around it it's very different and i
i can't accept this
thank you mr scott
that was the scale of this was one of my
big concerns
in the in the elevations i also agreed i
think this as much as i appreciate the
sketch
um to give us kind of the form of that
i'm not sure it's exactly representing
uh the the the proportions of
of the property or the proposed design
uh
so i'm very interested i like the front
elevation i agree with
mr heyer's comment about the larger
dormer on the
on the second and a half floor uh the
attic space but the
so i would like to see a revision of
that but i think the overall
proportioning of the front
is does maintain that fabric of the
existing
neighborhood it's when you go turn to
the side
that this becomes a very large uh
elevation the north and south
elevations are very large um the only
can only benefit there is that they're
you're so close to
the neighbor one of the neighbors
properties that you won't really see it
too much
but the smaller property um adjacent to
it
is definitely you're going to see that
larger elevation
so i would like to see some options of
how to try to change that scale up a
little bit
and then i'm also not a huge fan of the
stairs in the back
i get reason why you would want to do
that
but i think it just continues to add to
the the overall footprint and impact on
this
the scale of the site and i think if you
look at the site plan this this
footprint is looking
fairly large in proportion to the
neighboring property so
i would be very interested in seeing
ways to mitigate the scale of the
side elevations through either other
architectural elements
and just proportion controlling the
proportions i also think the rear
elevation
with the removal of that balcony uh the
upper deck and just looking at the rear
elevation of the house
i i think there's something there that's
also lacking i think there's an
opportunity either for a break at the
eve line
or um some other feature that kind of
helps
get the rear elevation to um
just be a little bit more proportionate
i and obviously i see that there's a
solar panel proposal i believe that's
what that is
um and you know that that long roof you
would definitely pull up
you might be able to power a couple
houses with that long roof um
so i'm just i i think overall i'm not
against the the whole
idea i think i just need to see some um
more architectural elements to help
control the scale of the
of those side elevations
well unfortunately what i'm hearing from
you guys is that you just
don't like how big it is and i know the
client is
tired of moving they would love to make
this their forever home and it's just
too
small as it is and so we're trying to
get her all the rooms
that they want and um
you know removing a large chunk of the
additions
would be unfortunate
i i will offer that i i think that there
are
solutions here and and i'm optimistic
that those solutions can be found i'll
echo what mr scott said i i'm not
i personally am not comfortable with the
exterior stair
uh that that's not a major issue but
i i will echo what he said but
i think that there are ways to achieve
what the the applicant
wants uh without the
the the messing that we're currently
looking at
and what i
personally have strived to avoid
uh in bexley residences in the past
is a simple extrusion of
what exists to some additional space
because that historically is very
awkward
so i think if you can avoid that
extrusion
uh toward the rear of the residence
and create the same
or very similar floor space
but in a in a solution that
doesn't simply provide such a
very large mass moving toward the rear
of the site
i think you can achieve what you and
your
client wants and what you're hearing
from the city
and i think i think simply put scale and
context
matter certainly it matters that owners
desire what they're trying to do we
honor that
would be great to see this house turned
around but those other things matter too
and that's why this all has to be a
balance
so i'll just add taylor when we've had
other applicants that have wanted to do
a new build like tear down a house and
put a new build up in south bexley and
we struggle with the scale of it down
there
um in south back so what we have um
recommended to them is that they break
up the mass
and that i think that's kind of what you
need to do here is just
in my opinion is break up some of the
big boxiness of this
into a couple structures that kind of um
you know pull it apart and read more to
the scale
of the existing building so does that
give you direction that you feel like
you know
how you need to move with this project
yes
um i agree with the sentiment of what
has been said that i don't
typically like to align walls to the
existing
uh but with how narrow the site
is if i were to turn the gable the
opposite direction
for the addition which would be the best
way to pull the walls in
and make the addition look different
going that route there's just no room
there's no usable room on that third
floor so then
it just completely changes what we're
going for which is why i
resulted in what i'm presenting here
today i
fully understand um the goals behind
what you're saying but
i guess there is just a reason that we
got where we are today
yeah um so how would you like to move
forward
now that you've heard the comments from
the board ah
i suppose could you explain a little bit
about what my options are
and what thank you yeah sure if you
would like to come back next month with
a new design
then we can just table this and then we
will um
you know we'll hear what you what you
have to show us next month
and you could you know make substantial
changes or it could be small changes
either way
and and so i think the tabling is what
keeps this application alive and moving
um otherwise if we vote on it then you
know
you you live with the vote and then
you'd have to start all over so
um if you think the project is you know
you'd like to move forward with it still
then i'd say
tabling is probably your best option
okay well i
uh as long as my client is also okay
with it
i would agree to table lisa
is that okay with you yes that's fine
thanks
okay do i have a board member then that
would make a motion on this
and call the roll please oh i don't need
color rule because we're tabling right
we yeah we can vote mr scott yes
mr heyer yes mr bardwell
yes mr hallman yes madame tony
yes thank you thank you both and
we hope to see you back next month
taylor give me a call anytime and we can
talk through
on the next steps
okay the next
item on our agenda
is uh i have it as letter n
karen um jay
which is oh it is jay yes you're right
it is james
nine south car commonwealth yeah so
um the address is 2299 south
commonwealth the applicant
is robert raskin the owner
is julie and you just took it off the
screen where i was reading it so i've
got enough
oh i'm sorry
uh where am i oh the owners kumi and joy
walker
[Laughter]
it's so hard i know i
went off and lost it already i've got it
right in front of me i just uh
okay and so the uh the applicant is
seeking architectural review and
approval for a two-story edition
okay so okay we'll take karen
that's okay um this this
project is a conversion of the
garage into a pool house and in addition
of a garage onto the primary structure
you can see it in in a footprint in a
site plan here let me blow it up a
little bit here
this is the converted pool house here
and this is the addition proposed
addition to the existing structure
um here are
i'm going to flip through the slides of
it um i i didn't really have
a lot
of criticism in terms of
massing and scale but board members and
i did as well had a lot of
questions about the choices of color
what um
what the the window choices in terms of
using the
the dark frames and just to be um
sure that this was going to match it's a
very significant house
people just love this house it's
beautiful so i think we just
um the board wanted to hear uh the
process and decisions that were made
in doing this so i'm gonna hand it
mostly over to
the applicant to share um to give a
presentation
i am looking for them now hold on
um if you could raise your hand so that
because there's such a
long list of people i will put you in
the room there is kumi and joy i hope
that pronounced that correctly
and robert
and please feel free to tell me what
drawings you'd like up as you speak to
your decisions in this process
okay all right i'm swearing in robert
raskin
kumi and joy walker
uh do you please raise your right hand
you saw
me swear the testimony you're about to
give this evening is the truth
yeah yes yes
yes we're also here with laura watson
who's our designer on the project
so just fyi great thank you
well ms watson be speaking as well yes
laura do you swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes thank you
please go ahead with your you mentioned
we've got uh
uh our homeowners here uh cumie and
julia are joining us
i thought it would be nice for them to
just kind of give us a
an idea of why they loved this home and
why they've purchased it and uh
some of the changes and adjustments
we're gonna make
their current bexley residents and uh
are moving just around the corner
they've found this house so that their
family can kind of grow into it and
doing a big remodel like this was on
their bucket list so we're really
excited
through this so uh i
personally love this house i think it's
it's going to be an amazing
transformation and
the designs that we come up with in my
opinion are fantastic and really check
the
boxes of what the homeowners were
looking for
so uh we do love this classic bexley
home and
everybody that i bring through it
[Music]
you know it's been a staple at bexley
for a long time so we're excited to
help improve it and keep the classic
charm of it but uh uh
kind of bring it up to date and and make
it make it personal for kumi and joy
so maybe kumi and joy if you guys could
tell us a little bit about
what your thoughts are
yeah absolutely and thank you very much
for
having us this is kumi walker my wife
joy and i moved to bexley
uh in 2018 uh from california
and we we found a home that we loved and
a community that we loved even more
i feel really lucky to have the
opportunity to
really find a home that i think
and quite honestly is is more of a dream
home for us
we love the the classic nature of the
home we love the proximity to the park
we have two young boys first grader and
a second grader at maryland
and are absolutely elated that they will
get to grow up in this house
a lot of what we have proposed is really
taking what we think is the best of the
house
and updating it while maintaining the
classic charm of the home
nothing as an example the screened
imports which was which is my wife's
favorite part of the home
we really just want to get a fresh coat
of paint um and
and put it put a porch swing on it but
for the most part
a lot of what we really want to do is
maintain the charm
uh while also updating it to um our
liking as well
um pass it to you
i think um kumi said it pretty well and
you know i've heard from so many
community members and neighbors that
this is their favorite house and it's my
mine as well lucky me it's mine now
um but you know we we really are just
you know not
looking to make sweeping changes of the
house just to get it updated
to the point where you know it's usable
for
for our family um
i think that's it great thank you guys
that was awesome
um so i'm gonna pass it over to laura
and she can kind of
uh explain a little bit about the
thoughts behind the new edition and the
updates that we're talking about making
hi there um
so in regards to the color actually that
was
one of the things we thought would help
kind of add to the
to the charm of the house by changing it
just to
a um very sharp white
a lot of the homes on the park are white
with black windows so we
didn't think that that would be too much
of a problem but as far as the
architectural elements we're not
um changing any of that on the main
house
and then what we're adding to the
addition i think
also adds to the charm of the house i
tried to kind of create more of a
of a carriage house look um
as opposed to something that was kind of
plain jane so
um and then carry that same element over
to the pool house and kind of update
that as well
if there's any drawings or pictures that
you all would like me to put up just let
me know
if not i'll just scroll through
[Music]
okay um is is that it for that for your
presentation i'll go to the board is
that okay
yeah unless you guys have any specific
questions about uh
different ideas or things that we've
come up with but
we've tried to reflect our homeowners
style and perspective within these
designs and
like we said kind of updated and
modernized the house a little bit
uh does the existing garage get removed
or how does that work
no the existing garage will stay just as
it is
but we are going to uh condition the
first floor
um and uh add some insulated
garage doors and um turn it into more of
a pool home structure
so karen if you want to scroll down i
believe we have a floor plan of that
pool or pool house structure so we're
not we're not demoing it we're
uh just modifying it
is it in this grouping maybe it's common
there
okay but
the outside of it doesn't change it just
gets painted and then we change the
garage doors
but the inside will get updated with a
bathroom and a kitchenette
um let me larry do you have more
questions then or
no that's it thanks okay uh
let's uh let's go to mr heyer do you
have questions mr heyer or comments
i just have a few comments i can only
find one other house
on north or south commonwealth that has
the white with the black
windows and
you know i don't have a problem with the
color scheme i would probably tend to
something
softer than a stark white just because
the rest of the houses on
the in this area the character is softer
so it might be like an off-white i could
i could see that and maybe the window
color is like a bronze instead of a
stark black
i just think you need to soften that
color a little bit
the other thing i would say is that a
lot of these houses on commonwealth
both north and south have beautiful
shutters and your house has beautiful
shutters and i really hate to lose them
because they really add to the character
of this house i think they're important
to keep
they build a proportion on the facades
of you know wall surface to window
opening
that is better proportionally and i i
would i would be very concerned if if
they were
you know if they're being removed
because the wall area will increase so
dramatically
and it will change the character of the
house so those those
are two things the last thing is um
the eve details um
there this is the eaves on this house
are a beautiful
profile of moldings and they actually
return at the gable ends in a beautiful
way
and i think this addition needs to mimic
that it needs to
pull those details off of the main house
which we're not seeing in this
package and i know this is you know
early
uh this is schematic design maybe a
little design development here but
those those details are critical
to the beauty of this house and i would
ask that they'd be retained and mimicked
on the garage
or the addition and i
i would really ask that the shutters
remain and that the color scheme be
softened just slightly
that's all that's great feedback
appreciate that
and uh um so the only comment i'll make
is
i have two addresses of homes that are
white with black shutters
uh one on north and one on south sorry
black windows not black shutters
uh two three seven one commonwealth
south and then two three eight eight
commonwealth north right um so the
those windows are similar color schemes
to kind of what we're thinking i think
the one on north is definitely a little
bit softer like you mentioned
and then a few other houses have white
with white windows
right yeah question will these windows
be replaced or they be painted that
aren't existing homes
there are 11 windows that will need to
get replaced because they have broken
sashes and uh have issues otherwise the
existing uh windows will get painted and
then of course in the new addition
and at the kitchen those will be new and
the new the replacement windows i
presume are
are built to completely match what's
with the house and with remaining
windows
absolutely yes
thank you mr scott or mr bardwell
um not only that i would agree with mr
higher i think the
scale and proportions of the design is
is great i think it feels
balanced with the existing home so i
appreciate those efforts
um at first i didn't know the whole
house was being painted i thought we
were just doing a white edition and i
was gonna be against that but uh
i'm probably more comfortable with the
whole house being painted i would also
agree
to go with more of a historic color uh
of an off-white or
or softer white and not a harsh white i
think the black windows will still work
well with that i still the modern feel
of the edition i think will still work
well with that
so i would recommend that and i also
would think that the agree with mr
heyer's comments about the
the gable ends the rake details i think
though you may not have to match
be able to match them exactly that would
be fantastic
um but i understand that some of that
gets quite difficult but if there
there needs to be some notion of this
fitting together
i know you're not trying to recreate the
existing house as an addition
um and i and i actually appreciate that
but i think there needs to be some nod
maybe to that
um to those details so overall i
i think it's a it's a great uh great
addition it's often
bigger isn't that why we didn't thank
you
mr bardwell do you have comments uh yes
and i'll i'll echo that and and
first i i want to welcome
kui and joy to bexley
what you represent is the future of our
community as do the applicants that
we've reviewed previously and i
i hope that when you hear our comments
you
uh recognize that we are viewing your
investment and our community
very very seriously uh and and we
welcome that
uh so with that that the
primary comment i have and i'm i'm
currently looking at
the cover sheet to your set of drawings
that is of the garage and i'm also
looking at the what i believe to be the
south
elevation and i'll echo
what you've heard from us in the
prior applications and that is
sensitivity
to some of the precedents in
bexley and that is breaking down
the scale of additions
sensitive to the community and sensitive
to neighbors
and in that specific regard i would say
that related to
the garage and again i'm looking at the
the the cover sheet that
the side facade of the garage to me
could be greatly improved by
by adding a some form of
dormer that breaks up what is
otherwise a very tall
stark elevation
and and breaks that down into some of
the scale that we're accustomed to in
bexley
and i would say that the same could be
true for what i believe
is your south elevation
where again you have a very tall
uh long elevation
that from my observation could be
broken down by simply adding some sort
of
dormer like element that
doesn't change the amount of enclosed
floor space
but simply breaks down the scale of that
to what
some of us value about bexley
[Music]
would you
mr bartle are you talking about this
part the new part um
make sure that i've got that on my
screen here large enough so i can see it
uh yes that that is indeed what i'm
speaking of
what would your vision of that dormer
look like would it
be just like the width of those windows
with maybe another window inside of it
to mimic that third floor
or there are probably a number of
solutions that could be employed
but something something that simply
breaks up
a very a tall long
elevation and roof plane and
brings it back to what some of us value
about
uh the articulation of some of those
planes
in baxley
okay that's good feedback thank you
um okay have i hit all the board members
then everyone has
made comments um if i forgot anyone let
me know
um i i actually my thoughts align almost
exactly with uh mr scott's
um i agree that that i think all your
details
um should match up um i do not agree
that you sh um have to leave the uh
um uh
around the windows the shutters yes
yes i actually like the look of the
shutterless
house um especially if you do it in a on
a warmer white
with like a dark bronze or soft black i
i think that's a beautiful look so
um and that's so that's all i have to
add to anything
um do you have any other questions for
the board do you
feel like you have a good feel for where
you stand
um across the board i think we're kind
of open
to uh you know working with you guys and
coming up with the right solution
i feel like uh i know in the past
sometimes
we've gotten approval uh with the
ability to work with karen and
nail down some of these details um
i would i would think that would from
the feedback i've heard from you guys be
an appropriate
uh option is that would that be
comfortable with the board
board members are you comfortable with
that yeah i i'd be fine with that and
with the the risk of beating uh beating
the horse a little bit
we're seeing a lot of houses with and
color is not something we're supposed to
really deal with strongly but
we're seeing a lot of houses to do that
the white with the black trim
uh and the only thing i would suggest in
that light with other people have
already kind of hinted at
uh because i think we'll see more of
those and is in what ways do you want to
make this distinctive because it's
already a distinctive house
and so maybe it's slightly different in
terms of color and
you might be rewarded in that because uh
you know i can count on one hand
five five or six places that are that
are like this we have a new one in new
building
on south columbia they're really big
that's uh the same
uh there's one on on parkview south
parkview uh
and just keeping the for for the owners
because you love this house this house
has been a distinctive house
how can you make it distinctive for you
as well so take that as you will
thank you um i just want to say i'm
comfortable
with a man to me to work on those
details i do agree that
while i'm all in support of white i
think going with a historic
softer white and either soft black or
bronze detail will give you exactly the
look that you're looking for but it will
be
softer and more in keeping with the
neighborhood and different from all
those stark white and black out
black windows that we're getting
everywhere
um i am fine with
with or without the shutters i agree
it's you know
doesn't it it's fine either way i'm not
really sure and i may need clarification
from mr bartle
this area here is the one i i personally
think the dormers
makes it even more busy right i like it
to this roof is much lower
and less expanse than this which is on
the
primary house so i'm just not sure that
i know what direction to lead just in
terms of that
because my feeling is that it doesn't
need the dormers well
and again i'm i'm not placing a
condition on this that was merely a
comment
and i was having a challenge to see
where your cursor was
uh i'm sorry but again
that was simply an observation that
uh our comments on the past two
applications
had addressed sensitivity to neighboring
properties
and one of the things that we value in
bexley
uh is breaking masses down
uh to a scale that even the largest
residences uh have addressed
and my sense was that was an opportunity
here
but that's not a condition okay thank
you
i i would agree with that actually the
more i look at this
roof i mean the main roof i see has a
couple of different
you know gables and forms going into
it's got chimneys to help break it down
a little bit
i mean to make a shed dormer to to pull
that
gable down on the on the addition and to
give that a shed dormer or like a wall
dormer for the
those windows up there would actually be
a really nice way to break down that
scale a little bit i think it could be
really lovely
you know i think we'd be happy to look
at it as an option
and present it to our homeowners and see
kind of one way or the other how it
looks and we could work with karen to
see
whether or not it works right you know
you're not going to be able to see that
from the from the park or from the
street at all and
you know i think we don't want to take
away from the existing house
so our kind of thought process on this
edition was to make it as simple as
possible
and let it blend in with the home and
most more than anything give us the
space that we needed
for for for the home for the can we
enjoy to enjoy it
so bill and peter are you okay letting
karen work out those details or do you
want to see it back next month
no as i said i'm not making that a
condition that is simply a strong
recommendation
agreed okay
so it sounds like the board is okay to
approve this
um as submitted with the the comments to
go to karen to
work out the few changes we're asking
for
and i've got i'll add those in the
conditions and my findings
sounds good okay do i have a board
member that can move to approve
so would you like me to read the
findings oh yes please how to read the
findings right
okay the findings of fact and decision
of the board
for application number arb-21-13 for
property located at 2299 commonwealth
park
south the board finds that the
that a certificate of appropriateness
should be issued for the two-story
addition and modifications
with the following condition that the
applicant mimic the return details
on the edition two
a warmer shade of white be considered
three
dermer be considered on the south side
of the two-story edition
and these conditions for this approval
are subject to further review and
approval by the residential design
consultant
i i would simply offer kathy uh
that dormer may be too specific
that we're simply i was simply offering
and and mr heyer may
state this better than i that we simply
break that down more
yeah the the roof form of the addition
be broken down
in massing more to consider that
the reform of the addition
could be broken down in messing it
doesn't have to be a dorm or it can be
some other form
but uh the that
face of the building simply be broken
down and and that's on the south side
in general of the the roof in general
okay so the edition yeah and we can work
that out
be broken down
also kathy just to clarify the returns
you're talking about
those should be i think clarified to be
you know eve
uh existing eve conditions on the house
should be mimicked uh or paid respect to
in the
in the eaves of the the new edition
that's all
so so that's what they're mimicking the
existing eve conditions
yes exactly thank you
all right and before we vote on this can
you just make sure that there's no one
with standing in the audience that wants
to speak
on this we've kind of forgot that one
yeah anybody in the audience would like
to speak to this case please raise your
virtual hand
there is nothing we're negative
well i i i will move for approval
and a second second
call the roll please kathy all right mr
scott
yes mr heyer yes
mr hellman yes mr bardwell
yes madam tony yes
okay i am going to move that we take a
quick
break um maybe five to ten minutes
does there thank you so much we're gonna
appreciate your consideration welcome to
the neighborhood tonight
thank you neighborhood thanks
is that okay with everyone if we take
just a real quick break here before we
get in
to the next thank you so so moved
all right we'll see y'all back we'll
reconvene at 7 35.
okay thank you karen
you
okay
you
hey
you
okay it's 7 35
thank you do we have all board members
back hopefully i'm seeing bills
getting there i think so
okay um we're going to continue then um
so we are on application n
is that correct correct okay it is
application arb
21-17 the address is 946
vernon the applicant is amy lauerhouse
and the owner
is roars dunstan the applicant is
seeking architectural review and
approval for a new front porch edition
okay this application is
before the board for a new front porch
which i
um have discussed with with
amy who is here i'll put you amy i'll
put you into the panelist room in just
just a moment um this this edition
when i first looked at it it looked a
little funny in elevation
it makes a lot more sense when you look
at it and plan because you notice
that um in the plan
let's get to it the seating area
where the table is protrudes out a
little more so it doesn't look like such
a
an awkward condition competing but it
still doesn't
on plan but it still does an elevation
i'm i think it's more appropriate to
have
the gable or have an emphasis
that's different over the doorway than
it is over the porch
so i asked amy um i shared that concern
with amy and she did agree
i think she agreed she can speak to that
herself but sent me
this new revision which um
i'm putting before you tonight because
amy has a strong desire to have
this approved with the condition that
she worked with me which you know
obviously i can't guarantee but um she
did
work hard to get this newest version of
it to
all of you to see um it
changes the entrance way to a different
treatment over the roof than the porch
that comes out a little bit more
the sitting porch i'm gonna ask amy to
come into
the panelist room hold on a second
okay is there any are your
owners also here
amy you just amy are you the only one
representing this case tonight
are you on mute
yeah i don't know if casey and kim are
here i think actually they're just
watching
the the feed that they didn't want to
necessarily join the meeting
okay no problem i just want to make sure
that i get everybody in that needs
that wants to be in um okay
kathy can go ahead and swear you and amy
and then you can speak to
both my critique and the changes you've
made since then okay
amy if you would raise your right hand
do you saw me swear
from the testimony you're about to give
this evening is the truth yes
thank you um so
yes i karen and i talked earlier today
about the whole kind of idea of the
competing dormers
um i'm you know the
my client prefers the double dormer i'm
i'm honestly
fine either or the double gable i'm fine
either way
um it because the left side
projects out further so they can have a
small table there
uh it doesn't really make sense to have
the the gable
over the front door where we would sort
of typically have it
uh but i don't necessarily think that's
a bad thing i think it's
kind of nice to have a little bit of
variety
with the porches and so that's why i've
presented this
it it doesn't look near as pretty
because i didn't have time to render it
but at least it gives you the the basic
idea thank you
board members that want to speak to this
uh this is peter amy i'll i'll observe
that
uh either solution may be appropriate
but
what you may wish to do in the future is
present
solutions like this in some
three-dimensional fashion rather than
two-dimensional
because that may make your case far
better than simply a straight on two
dimensional solution
so i i'm comfortable with either one
although looking at it in two dimensions
what you have represented that's on
screen
probably is the more acceptable to me
but that's that's based upon simply
looking at a two-dimensional solution
thank you mr bardwell uh mr scott do you
have comments
uh yeah i think this is um
i like this one better this proposed the
double gable to me with
the jogging plan um before the l turn i
think was a little fussy i think this
simplifies it
down um it's kind of
reversed of what you would expect um i'm
okay with that because i think it
it still fits it still fits kind of the
character of the neighborhood
and and and the additions that kind of
have happened over the years
uh is that a one question is that a
trellis that you're attaching to the
columns on the left of the up front
elevation yeah it would just
yes correct just on the left side on the
north side
so those are square columns yes correct
so in a way that kind of helps a little
bit because i think it helps uh
you know create a little bit of massing
to that dormered
end um so overall i think this is the
better of the two options
there's the square columns that you can
see yeah
thank you you're welcome
[Laughter]
thank you uh how about mr heyer
oh you're muted
can you hear me now yeah oh great
so i i would agree with uh mr scott's
comments and mr bardwell's comments i
i do think that this um new new version
is
nice i don't mind that the uh
the focus of the gable is at the sitting
area
i mean the porches of bexley are there
for
you know i like the fact that this is
not enclosed
and that these people will be able to
enjoy the passersby
um which is great i think it's a great
addition
my only comment amy is that
uh sort of echoing mr bardwell if we had
a three-dimensional view of this we
would see
that the beam turn from the
uh the beam that goes over the door in
front of the door out there
where it turns to bump out is
unsupported
and so what i and and here's a
suggestion
actually go to the new version because
that's the old version
yeah if we do the new version we don't
have that jog
so there's no issue there because
well unless you wouldn't put a
double column there is that what you're
where it turns
well you you have an inside corner that
would need to be supported
right but what i'm suggesting
is that the column that frames the
doorway because the whole point here is
that you're framing the
porch uh where the sitting area is i
would
move that column you know over to
you know to support that the column
that's you know flanking the door i
would move it over to support the inside
corner of that beam um and that just
reinforces the uh sitting area even more
i just think that column is lost
in three dimensions trying to frame the
doorway there
yeah yeah i see what you're saying no i
unders
move this back behind here yeah yeah
yeah i mean because you know
the whole the whole notion of a focus on
the front i mean my house
has a similar i mean not it's not the
same but
there's there's a what we tried to do
was
uh use pi lasters to help engage the
whole front
area and it also has two kind of focuses
that are competing with each other
so it's not uncommon to find that in
south bexley on a front porch
and so i i think that that solution by
de-emphasizing even more that front door
sliding that column over will just
enhance this design but i think it's a
better solution here yeah that would be
really nice
yeah i think i would agree with that i
think i'm going to jump back in sorry
one comment before we leave these
elevations the the screen wall can we
just scroll over to the screen wall the
little
trellis i think how that is detailed is
going to be very important
yes i'm not sure what straw there now
works uh for me
i think there needs to be a little bit
of kind of detail
and and kind of craftsmanship to that to
really kind of fit into the
the house and the style and the
character of it so i think paying a
little bit attention to that i think
will go a long way
uh you may also want a center support i
don't know exactly what it's made of and
i don't want to make it a railing so
i think it's it's thin elegance is going
to be important uh
karen if you go to the plan real quick i
think that this will
be really easy to
if i can find it there we go so
basically we're going to take that
left of the cent door column and
straighten out the
the foundation work as well as and i
would agree looking at that
in this plan i think that would be a
definitely the thing to do i think
that'll clean that all up
yeah and and i think um
you know interestingly i talk a lot with
clients about how we never actually
see anything in that perfect
front elevation um which some of you
know i'm desperately trying to find
somebody to help me with the 3d stuff so
hopefully that'll be coming soon
um so but but anyway i think
the the house numbers and the mailbox
are on the left side of the door
which i think actually helps this um if
we move
the and i think if we put a nice light
fixture there too
i think that would further balance with
moving the column over to the left
i agree i agree are there any other
board members that want to
speak on behalf of this yeah can you
show the uh
the the what we're talking about in the
in the rendering real quick
right yeah um yeah that it
i agree with everything that said uh it
obviously when those when the corners
come
when you meet the corner there should be
something under it but you're right then
you've got a wall space that you've got
to figure out to
re-achieve the symmetry that the framing
the door did so
that's a it's an opportunity
okay anyone else have we gotten to
everyone
are we ready to move forward then um do
i have a board member that will
make a motion
go thank you and then i'll read the
findings
uh if there's anybody in the audience
that would like to speak to this case
please
raise your virtual hand
there is no one
all right would you like me to read the
findings yes
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
arb-21-17 for property located at 946
vernon the board finds that the
front porch edition
should receive a certificate of
appropriateness with the condition
that the plan with the single gable
be used and that the
column to the left of the front door
is to shift to the left and line up
behind
the center column yep
sounds good
do i have a motion now emotion
second i think i have come in for a
second
all right i i don't know that i had
intended to be so prescriptive
but i will accept those findings
kathy can we call the role please mr
scott
yes mr heyer
yes mr hellman yes
mr bardwell yes
madam tony yes
thanks thank you okay thank you
uh the next application
it is application o on our list it is
application number arb 21-18
the location is 394 columbia the
applicant is john b
hall the owner is julie and yazar
karen do you want to start with this
yeah i'm just looking for others john
okay i've put um the applicants into the
panelist room
um in in the staff report
which is available online for everybody
to see
um i have included the
part of the code that deals with
demolition
so everybody can follow along to make
sure that we've covered
all the things we are um we
are uh here to look at
um i'm not i'm gonna keep my comments
pretty brief
because i think john b hall who's here
to pre uh
to present the project will be able to
um you know present his project and the
reasonings behind
the reasoning for wanting to demo
demolish the existing home
and the attributes of the new design
better than i could i have all the
drawings pulled up
so john as you go through everything
please let me know if you
what you would like me to pull up this
this house is
the existing house um is
a very nice house but it has a lot of
issues that you have
probably read about in the reports that
have been submitted
by john as well as a letter from
a um independent architect who
attests to its lack of significance
um these are these are not my opinions
either
for or against i'm just stating the what
has been submitted
the i do want to talk a little bit about
the
proposed structure the proposed
structure
is very nice it fits in well with the
neighborhood
and i think it is appropriate for the
streetscape and for
replacement structure which is the last
and final thing we look for in
demolition
whether or not what is going to replace
the existing structure
um is better or equal to what is
existing and
as from a staff perspective i think that
is the case in this
particular application so with that i'm
going to hand it over to john
john as you'd like me to pull up certain
drawings if i'm not on the correct one
just
let me know
we need to swear him in first case kathy
we need john
b hall and yoas and julie tsar to be
sworn in okay
so as you you're
in the room we're in the room julie okay
and john b hall
yep i'm in here okay please raise your
right hand
do you saw me swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
i do i do i do thank you i do
okay well
i just say suzanne do you should we
start with the existing house and the
demolition issue before we go to the new
house
we can proceed however you would like to
so if you want to go ahead with that
that would be yeah and maybe
and maybe um let's let's just pull the
pictures of the old house just to get
everybody on that
that page okay so
uh obviously we took these pictures a
few weeks ago
the uh this
is uh you know kind of a craftsman
bungalow house
um it's
been it's been altered
in a couple ways not uh not a lot but in
very substantive ways
so if you look at the front of the house
you have you have windows
you have a bank of original windows all
the way up on the left and then
in the middle you have another bank i
guess there's five
in there that have been added
now that was an infill
of the original porch and the
architecture the importance of the
architecture of this kind of house is
that big
broad front porch with columns
and um
so it's sort of the integrity of it
has been uh destroyed in a way by that
edition and i i assume it's been there a
long time
uh the other odd thing uh
like from the facade point of view is
that
uh that rob libsy pointed out in his
letter
was that uh horizontal window in the two
vertical windows
which is sort of a kind of a common
element
uh however it's really on the front of a
house
it is the typical element on the side of
the house
especially the horse especially the long
horizontal
so um
let's just say in our perspective it's a
flawed version of this style
especially with the infield porch now
that being said i i i you know
i gotta remind everybody the standards
in bexley
the standards in bexley to prohibit uh
demolition are not
even okay architecture
you know we think this is less than good
but even good architecture is really not
protected by your
by your statutes it has to be
significant
architecture and as i've and
and um there are many many houses in
bexley i think i've presented this at
other meetings
uh but i have the attachment of all of
i don't know there's 30 some houses in
central bexley
that not not this one um
the attachment that has all the
bungalows
okay be patient with me yeah
you're somewhere uh
clearly not here oh it must be in this
one
yeah so i mean one point i'd like to
make i think if a house were
unique and brought it was the only other
was the only
one of those houses we we had in bexley
you could
you could make more of a case of his
significance but i as you can see
there's many
versions of this style through and this
is even just central based let alone
south bexley
so um so i don't know i i feel
given the statutes of architectural
significance
it doesn't meet the mark to be
prohibited
from being demolished and
and i didn't even mention the fact that
it's not in great shape as far as
overall maintenance over the years and
certainly
lacks lacks interior improvements that
would
uh that are typically found in most
specially houses that are have been
maintained and updated over the years so
you've got those issues and then you
have historically significant i
i don't know how the board members feel
i feel like historically significant
is quite a hurdle
what would have to happen in the house
what would a house a building have to be
to be historically significant i guess
we have the governor's mansion
i mean we have a lot of we probably have
a lot of architecturally significant
buildings
but historically significant we have
that one the rucks house which was
maybe like civil war era
there are a few but uh historically
significant
is a very high hurdle that i think
karen you developed those standards that
it's a very high hurdle to meet to
prohibit someone from demolishing a
house
so i don't know how you want to do this
um but anyway that's our main case
those are our main issues on why we
think this is it would be fine to let
this house come down
and build what we think is a better
structure
um so karen or karen yeah do you want to
go to the then you want to go to the new
house
wait let's just take a second john are
there any board members that want to
talk about the
the demolition before we move to the new
house
i personally i think i'd rather hear the
whole presentation
i agree i think it's important to hear
the whole presentation because
to to to me and you're correct john that
although i did not write it because i'm
not an attorney
and um jim gross and i
and kathy um put this ordinance together
years ago um and we know that
historically significant is ambiguous at
best
but um i just want to jump down to
the the bottom line in my
view as a staff reviewer
is that the new proposed structure
is better than what is there now
so for that reason as one of the
important criteria i think
mr helman is correct that we need to
listen to the whole presentation okay
okay well then can we go to the site
plans that and there's
how about the one the ones that are the
side by side
ones do you have those there but for
uh well anyway these we can go back and
forth um
the um the existing house
let's see you want to go how about going
back up okay
there's there's the existing house um
actually we sorry about that title
there's the existing house
now to me the existing house is so oddly
placed on the lot
very close to the side uh very close to
the
house to the south and
sort of oddly off-center on the
the irony too is that when you take the
average setback of the street
the setback is further the average
setback is further than
that existing house and further than to
the two houses
the houses on either side even though
this house is
pretty much lined up with the houses
around it but nonetheless you know you
have that's the way the ordinance reads
the
the setback is the average setback so
we're fine we'll go ahead and
push and we're you know we have no
problem we'll push the house a little
bit further back
it is nice that we can save the trees in
front so we don't have a disruption of
that
of that area and then if you go down to
the new
you can kind of see that i mean i think
the nice thing about this
house is we're like far exceeding
we're gonna we're going to go up to the
front setback
which is already further back from the
other houses but we far exceeding the
side setbacks on either side so we're
not really infringing on the neighbors
i think it's a more comfortable distance
from the uh from
the other houses uh it's more
it's definitely more in line with the
house to the north
and we are maintaining we still have a
big area of privacy to maintain
all around the yard i know the
the sars talked to the neighbor to the
south and
who was very happy that we're going to
leave
our whole i think that i think the uh
green border in that case goes between
both
us goes across the property line but we
can leave that
whole thing because we're not moving to
the driveway we're not moving the curb
cut
and we're not moving the edge of the
driveway we're just extending it back
and putting the detached garage further
back in the corner
so it it approaches the street in a
you know in kind of a subtle way and um
i think we'll kind of fit in the uh the
um
so anyway then i'll go ahead and talk
about if we go to the elevations
i'll talk about that a little bit um
well the plans uh this floor plan is a
similar
floor plan to what a house we built on
north drexel
okay what drive did would you like
what's that
the of the exterior elevations of the
new house
oh got it i think i might have
accidentally closed them
hold on one second
okay
so what we're proposing in
okay so we have a brick house we're
taking out we're proposing a stone
and cedar shake with a little with some
metal roof some
uh dimensional shingles
that to us has this has some of the
charm
of a number of there's a house across
the street actually that has
this character there's a house on
parkview that has this character
just some extent a front porch
a uh the garage is is towards the front
however
you know you the grassroots are on the
side it has a mix of materials the scale
is broken down what i like
what i like best about putting this
house on this block
is this this this is a this is a tough
block
you've got you've got uh two
three doors north
you have a very huge house
that and that expand that's wide along
the street
next to that you have a stone house with
a turret
next to that you have a ranch a red
ranch
house and then to the south of this you
have a couple
sort of moderate-sized houses and then
the new large white house
so we're searching to have
kind of a compromise something that
would fit in with the smaller houses
but have enough stature to stand up with
the bigger houses
so that's the concept here it's 33 feet
to the peak
and the existing house is 30 feet to the
peak
so it's only three feet higher
now the other house is a story in half
but the other house has a
existing house it's a very elevated uh
uh first floor so that's one reason why
it's
as high as it is but nonetheless i think
actually a few more feet
on that house a few more feet on that
house
would be good on in that section of that
block to kind of
blend these bigger houses with the
smaller houses
as you can see it's quite broken down in
scale
um a front porch to be
a little uh to be more fan sort of this
is sort of a family friendly kind of
house in my mind you know
and then we go on to we can go look at
the sides
um the the next one down i think so
the side is quite broken up the garage
faces the side
the back uh the
the back has doors so again that breaks
it up i think the
um you know
this is not like uh this is articulated
as far as the irritation so you
the pieces are really broken down and
uh go down a little further and the side
i think
some of you felt like this is a this is
similar to a sign
that on the house on north uh drexel
but what we did is we articulated a
little bit more as we're wrapping the
stone around the corner of the front we
we brought out the bay on top to uh
to give the um to give the stone
an actual stopping point
so i don't know you know it's
it's meant to be more more charming and
gracious and then here's the detached
garage
so we have a little bit of borden batten
on the house on the back
of the house and so we decided we tried
to do the
um and on the side of the house we tried
to do
the garage in board and bat so
board and batten cedar shake siding or
you know or maybe we'll might use hardy
shake siding
but um and stone and real stone
not a slap and stick
and what's the roof material it's the
most of the roof it will be a
dimensional asphalt machine
and then we have you know we have the
dormers and things are
a metal standing seam metal
so i don't know i mean i can talk more
about it but i think i i
just throw it open to questions now
thanks john um okay let's start with
uh board members um let's start with mr
scott
uh wow um
the hot seat
yeah right thanks for letting me start
on this one um
so i'm going to separate everything i'm
going to separate everything because i
think
uh i i can't make a decision on a
demolition based on
the quality of the submittal i think
they are tied together
but that can't be a directive for me um
so looking at the existing house this of
all the ones that you know we have
approved
demolitions um
i agree with you that there's been
changes to this house that have
taken it away from its original
character i have not obviously been
inside the house
um you know i i read through the um
the architect's letter um mr lindsay's
letter
and uh you know those those points are
he's making strong points but
they're they're not as strong as a lot
of if not most of the
previous demolition approvals that we've
made uh for either structural
reasons or other other aspects so
it's painful but in saying that
what do we what do we what do we have as
guidelines and
rules and i can't point to something to
say well
this is going to be something that i can
you know put my
stake in the sand and say this i can't
i'm immovable so
i you know as much as it pains me you
know i don't know
how i could argue the demolition of that
house um
so that being said uh i think the
the sketches here one i love the quality
of the sketches so
uh nice job um and i think they're very
informative
i think there's a lot going on which
gives it
its character um i like the different
moves and
and i think those are are
elements that are found a lot in bexley
uh so i think that
this fits into the character of the
architecture
um that i i expect and kind of i see in
in bexley so
um i don't have you know there's a
couple and it's a pencil sketch i'm
guessing i think
so i don't you know there's things that
aren't perfectly aligned and i think
that's something that would work out
would be worked out i know the fear firm
and uh i know those things are important
so
i think the proportioning and the
massing in the layout i think the site
planning
is uh is is a good move so i'm very
interested to hear the other board
members comments on
the demolition and the justification for
that but
um overall i don't have any major
comments for the design
and i won't go any further on what i
said about the demolition so
thank you thank you
let's go to mr bardwell next
uh i'll i as well will
divide this into parts and uh one
john i respect your
due diligence on the demolition
and i i accept that
uh and as we move to the new
construction
i am attracted to what you have
proposed but the third
element of that is purely technical
and one that has been of profound
consequence to the city uh over the past
couple of years
and that relates to building height of
new builds
so as you move forward
forward with this uh my
earnest request of you
on behalf of the city is to uh
identify a the benchmark and the
benchmark
i think that the city is is now moving
forward with is
is top of curb
and use that as the benchmark
to identify your proposed
ridge height relative to all adjoining
structures
and i i'm glossing over everything that
precedes that but i
i can't emphasize that enough because
that has
proven to be a huge issue for the city
okay uh i'll just say
that i've already uh if you measure my
drawings it's 32 feet high and i put 33
feet up high on it right now to give
myself a little flexibility on that
just because i because i i
uh because we haven't set the
we haven't yet set the finished grade so
i
even at 33 feet high i have a i have a
foot of flexibility in there to
to compensate for that issue because i
figured it would come up
um and that's great i think
yeah i think that's absolutely right and
and uh we'll get that set because we
have a good we have a topos on our
survey already so we'll
and and finish grade has proven to be
elusive and that's why i i'll defer to
karen and kathy but
uh curb height has become
i think our desired benchmark
and that's important as it relates to
the adjoining structures
yes absolutely yeah okay
so i think that there's no problem that
we can follow up and get that
accurate and and uh on our
on our next set thank you
uh mr heyer
uh thank you uh i i would just state
that uh to reiterate mr bardwell's
comment
we always with new builds especially in
this context
asks for uh elevate street elevations
with the other houses in context
and this is something that the city is
working to verify
independently uh ridge heights
and floor plate heights and things like
that after recent
issues um other than that i read the
letter
from mr libsy i've been through the
the reasoning behind uh
how this wants to move forward and
honestly i have not heard anything
that's compelling enough
to justify the demolition of this
bungalow
house um i am not convinced by the
argumentation
i don't see a hardship here and i
uh intend to vote no
thank you mr hellman
well then that put me in that's fine
um i i would i'm going to go in reverse
i'm going to talk about the new build
and then talk about the existing house
and um
and and i'll in between i'll talk about
the elephant in the room
but for the new build um it's very
appealing
there's there's there's a richness about
it in terms of detailing
and massing and stepping and and uh
and how things kind of come together uh
that i find very compelling
and and i find it to be a very
interesting house
and then i would ask myself the question
as as stupid as this sounds
if that house were in existence on this
lot
would i tear it down to have the brick
bungalow that's in its place
um and the the the elephant in the room
i think
as long as we have um
larger lots we're running out of them
slowly but surely these larger lots
uh which the value of the house sitting
on the lot
does not justify the the lot
and the price that the lot's going for
and it and so the
economic case uh is
leads us to in my mind a pretty high bar
as to saving
the house because then it's a true
imposition uh
in terms of the value equation house to
lot
uh that's just fact and that's just what
we see uh see occurring
uh i'm familiar with the house i've been
uh through the house it's a friend of
ours
and not that it couldn't be
rehabilitated in some fashion but
uh you know it's it's it's a series of
rooms it's
somewhat the same issue we've found with
the smaller house yet
peter johnson's house on the on the on
the other
uh issue we had with the demolition
i personally am not in love with the
house i never have been
so it would be the broader issue of the
appropriateness of demolition that may
come into play
uh but i i i again i find this a pretty
appealing house
the new proposal
yes okay
oh thank you um so i guess i
fall somewhere in that same category
where um
i i'll be honest the last project that
you did
john the tear down of a bungalow across
the street or
and uh farther north i feel was a very
successful project so i'm
um it makes me a little bit
uncomfortable to tear down that bungalow
but
i feel like as long as we're replacing
it with something that is so much better
which
i i do think that this what you've drawn
is a very nice house and very
appropriate for that lot
so um it gives me a little bit of
heartache but
i'm i guess i would tend to lean um to
be okay with this so
um karen do we have uh people in the uh
audience that would like to
speak on behalf of this we do if
everybody
that would like to speak on behalf of to
this project could raise their hands
um right now just be reminded that
you can speak on this uh project if you
have standing
and if you have standing you should have
been sent a letter
um to your house stating that you have
standing
and while karen is gathering folks into
the
rooms for comment i have a question for
yoas
um looking at the franklin county
auditor's website
you can get the contour lines to show up
on the screen
and it looks as though there are two
contour lines between
the curb and the house that's existing
so i'm guessing i believe those might be
two foot increments
so when peter's saying that this height
staked at the curb and if in fact that
grade gradually rises two feet by the
time you get to the house
yo as i know you build a lot of homes
and i wanted to inquire that
if there could be a permanent grade
stake that goes in
to mark what the existing great is there
now
that will not be touched that you can
compare it to
with what what you you build because
right now
the the 33 foot shows to the bottom of
the house
however it is not the first floor and
how
how high that is in comparison to what
the greatest to that first floor
always seems to be a mystery so
i i i wanted to find out if that's
something that
we could accomplish this height based on
a
grade stake that goes in and doesn't
come out until this is complete
yeah we can i mean as an overall rule
that we use
on the field we always take the curb and
then top of wall is always three feet
higher
that gives us enough uh fall from the
house because you still have
there's codes and stuff but the code
basically basically says
uh in the first ten feet uh you gotta go
at least six inches of fall and that's
we always follow that
it always works very well when we put
the house and we're about three feet
higher than the curb
that's top of all for us always uh
it doesn't matter how many houses are
built it's almost around two foot eight
to three for two or
just about three feet it always works
that way and so
i believe we're always allowed to also
build up to 35 feet that's that's a
normal house
height to the top
right that that is the code limit is the
35 feet
so i i just want to make sure that
you know whatever this height is set at
that it is
where it where it should be the last
case we had it was
18 inches off but that's not
well i think you know if we're going to
33 feet
from the ground but you said it as you
said the ground does change you know it
is a
you have to give yourself enough fall
for the water to shade away from the
house
that is correct so that's you know yeah
so if you go with the 33 feet i think
if john's saying 32 feet you won't be
higher than
33 33 and a half feet with the grade and
everything foam
and my my point in raising that issue
is that there is tremendous sensitivity
uh to aligning what is
represented in this and other
uh applications to what is
actually built relative to the
ridgelines of adjoining properties
so i can only emphasize the fact
that that needs to be determined
from this point forward and adhered to
can we put like a state are you
recommending we put a stake there and
say this is 33 feet above that is that
what we're saying
well just to establish the establish the
greatest existing great at the house
that's there now i think we can
establish that and we know that we have
a 33 foot height limit
at that existing grade because you tend
to lose that grade
once construction starts because of all
the excavation going on
so if you can put a stake there i can
have a staking company put put it there
and that will be 30 then we will just
make sure that we are no more than 33
feet for the ridge
above that state like you said that
would be very helpful
then and whatever whatever john
shows to us in any subsequent
application
that that shows the relative ridge
height of this
related to adjoining properties that
needs to be adhered to
yes so um i just so a couple things
because i
obviously i knew this was going to be an
issue so one thing we had the surveyor
survey the existing house and you know
the existing house is
pretty much right on the drive so you
have a you have a hard surface there
and you have the ridge height they they
surveyed the existing houses 30 and 30
feet to the ridge
so my point is
that the and our house
could be 32 feet i made it 33 feet to
make sure we have a little bit
of fudge there and
and i think the grade of that
or the as a reference
to the grade of this new house so i'm
pretty
confident that we have i'm pretty
confident
that we have a we have we have proposed
something to you that we can accomplish
without changes and and
keep the house
in basically just three feet higher
than the existing house
an existing ridge in real and real
elevation you know
so i i mean again just because we
thought about it ahead of time knowing
that would be an issue
i think we have a plan in mind and
um and we have we do have
a cert we have a grading survey too and
the lot falls pretty well front to back
so um we'll you know
we'll be close very close to the
existing grade
at the side of the house yeah john i
think also
uh the policy now is that a landscape
plan be prepared
um at the front end and in parallel with
the house of middle
as opposed to later on and we're hoping
that will also
solve this issue of a house height
from an undefined finish grade that
hasn't been yet established because a
landscape plan has not been put into
place and
no one's quite sure how much dirt is
going to be moved around so
those two really need to go in parallel
okay
well we we have the landscape plan
started it just
uh by a length by consultant and that
had that unfortunately did we didn't get
that in
uh this month but we it's underway
and we can add the grading information
to that so that you can see what the
grades going to be
at the house and and i think you know my
experience is that
a lot of times you know my first house
on bexley was 82 so which is almost 40
years
um that we haven't really
been including that information
necessarily
all all these years on on the submittals
uh landscape plans well landscape plans
but not uh
not maybe uh detailed grading
information
oh absolutely you know we live
anecdotally
yeah so so well primarily because we've
we've had some houses are getting
monstrously tall garages are getting
monstrously tall so
uh that's the reason yeah um
john i one additional question did you
submit a streetscape plan
no we didn't we didn't and i'll tell you
why now you can
uh board members i just kind of bring
this up i mean
if you that the house is only three feet
higher than that
that house that exists
i mean i don't know we and the other
thing is
i'll just ask the board how accurate do
you think these street these streetscape
drawings are that people hand in i mean
are you you're really not going on
someone else's property
to measure their houses i think it's
i think it's just as much for stylistic
blending as it is for anything else
yeah well i mean
john i will simply say it needs to be
defensible
at the end of the day you need to
represent the
after the ridge is established you need
to
to be able to defend the fact that what
you had represented
is indeed what it what now exists yeah
yeah well joas has told me uh we've
talked about this
he's not changing the damn thing until
mostly because we're in love with it
let's go ahead and bring in some of the
audience members and hear what
some of your neighbors think okay um if
everybody that wants to testify could
raise their hands
so i have a good list uh currently i
have just
two two people i don't know that we need
to put a time limit but i would ask that
we keep the time the um
the comments to eat just try to be brief
the first person is uh
alan radner if you could swear him in
kathy
all right
it's kathy it's alan and carol radner
alan and carol radner and could you
state your address as well
400 south columbia avenue
400. all right please raise your right
hands
do you solemnly swear or burn the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
thank you we are
alan and carol radner the neighbors
immediately to the south
uh which has been characterized as the
smaller house which it is
we support this application um
we're gardeners uh they have thought
about their neighbors which is somewhat
unusual in our experience
on the street um they have left an
excess
of uh green space and particularly the
green space
uh to the south of the driveway and
they're using the existing driveway
which is a green space that we've
enjoyed for over 40 years
they're respectful of the strict
streetscape and the
architecture here and as it relates to
the homes of the north
and south uh and not to deprecate the
property that's there
but most people think that that could be
that property deserves at this point in
historical time maybe a better house now
we're 75 years old
and we've just gone through three years
of a build
down the street which you're all
familiar with
but we're willing to go through this
build
to get a house that's this pretty
because we think
it'll improve our house and also we'll
we'll correct not correct but
fit in with how this street should look
as time moves on uh i think
repositioning the house not only cites
it
better than the house that exists there
now
but also benefits us because it moves it
you know it gives us a little bit of
room
we are of course intensely conscious
of the ridge height issue here
but we've watched b hall builds
over many many years in this community
uh and i we we believe that
you know if he says he's going to build
a certain house
that with a certain height that's what
we hope will be done we appreciate
uh the board uh holding them to that
uh of course um
we would be happy to have this house
next to us
to have these neighbors who are building
uh such a pretty house
and we're all in favor of it uh
it may be our last years but we'd like
to enjoy it next to a bee hall house
i that may sound kind of corny but we've
watched him build houses all over bexley
and we appreciate his work
do you have anything there no
thank you
next i have david weston
uh mr western would you please state
your address it is
399 south columbia 3.99
yes okay please raise your right hand
do you solemnly swear or from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
i do thank you all right
so well first of all i'd like to welcome
the sars to to our neck of the woods and
uh
definitely looking forward to meeting
them and
uh getting to know them once their house
is built um
no no issues with the demo from our
perspective just a
word of caution um that this street and
this
this uh block has dealt with
construction now for three plus years
straight
and uh uh we're guilty of part of that
as as we've had a large addition
um uh to be able to live here and and
enjoy this
uh further on so but just a word
question that's i think the street is
probably
constructioned out so um but you know uh
some of the the things that we've seen
with the bee hall house
that was built uh uh on this block a
couple of years ago
uh you know just if it's built to that
quality and that taking care of the
house or taking care of the
the construction site professionalism uh
you know that's exactly what we would
love to see here as well
um to mr b hall the only thing i have is
that you
you mentioned a couple times only three
feet i will tell you from
from the neighbors that are around this
house that have dealt with uh
um the uh i as best the
the white house as you mentioned it um
or or the issue house or any way you
want to put that
uh three feet's a lot and and it is a
big issue
um you know there there are a lot of
concerns with
with that house and not being built to
the to what was
uh agreed upon in the arb uh and
definitely
we're on heightened sense of of
awareness uh
to make sure that we we just want this
built the way that
is approved here and and uh my only
question for the board here is how do we
hold accountable
uh the sars and and mr b hall uh if this
house is not built to the standard
uh that is approved or hopefully will be
approved here because
now obviously as you're fully aware the
city is fully aware
um we do have the other other house that
is not built to what was approved and
we're
we're dealing with that challenge right
now so again to the stars welcome to the
neighborhood and we look forward to
uh to being your neighbors that's all i
have
kathy can you answer his question of
what our new
protocol is to try to keep this from
happening
well that that's why i had asked joe as
about his experience in
construction about establishing a grade
stake
that we know will show existing so that
we can compare that
knowing the house at that setback is at
30 feet
and that this will not exceed 33 feet
if in fact this is the design that's
approved because when you look at the
contour lines
on the frickin county auditor's website
you can even see like the neighboring
property that house sits
on it's it's a a different grade level
it could be two feet higher it could be
two feet long it looks to be two feet
higher as well as the next one
so you're not going to measure that 33
feet on this lot isn't going to be the
same height as the 33
feet on the 394 lot so i think it's most
important to just simply establish
the existing grade at the house which
as john said you've got a driveway
that's not going to change
so that grade is going to be existing
and it cannot be any
taller than 33 feet from that grade and
they could always put a mark on the
other side just so they have something
that they could
run a line and we've got something
permanent on site that does not get
disturbed because
you know the grade does get removed and
put back but there has to be something
permanent there
that that we can count on is showing the
existing to make sure it's
maintained kathy thank you and i but i
will return to the fact
that if there is a consistent benchmark
it is the curb height
and what i would want is when john
returns to us presumably
uh is that when he's
representing as we require
the height and relative
scale and massing of this resonance
to those that immediately adjoin it that
he is using that curb height
as that benchmark and that that will
that will codify what we use from that
point forward
is that something you can accomplish
john
we already have we have the the cert
and the the survey has the grades and we
have the top occur
so we already have the topic of
information
so uh we can and we
establish a finished floor elevation
from the top of curb
elevation and then from there
you'll have a permanent reference
and we can put that on the you know on
the
con on the construction documents again
so or i can
and actually we can even establish it uh
here for this preliminary too we can get
back to you on that one
because i do think we already have
information
it sounds like that would be very
helpful to bring that back to the next
meeting
to just establish what's there and how
this compares so
yeah i'd like to prove it tonight then
then we'll just follow up with it but um
guarantee of anyone else if there's
anybody else please raise your hand but
i don't see anybody at this time
no
okay so what i heard from the board is
that some of you would like more
documentation
on landscaping and on curb height
compared to ridgeline um is there
anything else that
if we're if we're going to table this
and ask john to come back is there
anything else that you want to see
or um how does the board feel i do think
that
um even if it's just an outline of the
houses next to it we should see
um the the house drawn and streetscape
next to
just an elevation next to the
neighboring houses
i i totally get what you're saying john
that's only a tiny bit
taller but we also have to
have the documentation fair from case to
case to case
agreed and it sounds like bradner's will
cooperate with you to
measure their house and forgive me if
i've overlooked it but i've
i've been through uh everything that
i have been able to find on the city
website
and i don't see a streetscape
as we require of adjoining structures
have i
overlooked that no that's what i just
said is that yeah
again so i have not overlooked that we
are still awaiting that
right that's what we just said peter is
that we're asking him to bring it to the
next meeting right
yes okay
is there anything else that needs to be
added to that list board members that
you want to
see um in the next meeting i guess i
would also
um like to maybe just see a little bit
more on finishes so
it's hard to do over um but but i guess
you know we're all looking for a quality
of finishes like we've
seen in some of your other houses so
yeah how are you guys doing that now
with on zoom
um and we still just
have pictures of sample boards it's it's
very much
like sorry to interrupt because it's
very much like the house that um
karen happens to be showing now which
was the house we just moved out of
uh in fact it has that a similar
sensibility in some ways
i believe sorry i jumped in
so yeah yeah so are you saying then that
you would just be basically matching
those finishes
same roof same paint same
well the fact that it's the real stone
in the cedar shake
uh the the seamed roof uh we do have
some gordon batten
uh because of the uh garage in the way
back
but that quality and that heft for sure
um probably some blue stone and that
entryway steps and um what we've done
for the other new builds um
in person is just have a sample board
and i think john it's even easier now
because
you just have to show me if you could
just take a you know show me either a
brochure or picture and i can put it
right into the presentation for next
time
we could get so we can get copies of
that information this
is uh exterior material information yep
you want the landscape plan yes
and the um
and the uh and then this
the street elevation with the other
houses so basically three
three more things correct and then um
just to keep everybody aware um kathy
and i
are constantly um talking about
ideas um that we can implement
that we can codify as part of our
process for this elevate for this
grading problem
so we're not going to solve it we're
going to help it
and and it's going to we're going to be
able to
apply some of these things like kathy
brought up but we're going to continue
even
you know in between meetings
figuring out standards for this and how
to do this on every project
okay and then i i'll just say we'll try
to hit if we're going to come back next
month we'll try to hand in
something that that is uh that
will help you all get comfortable
with a uh a
sort of a proposal that can be checked
and verified uh and so we'll try to
we'll try to come up with something that
that that helps you have something that
you can hang your hat on
awesome
okay um so it sounds like we are moving
to table this
is that what what you want john
yeah i mean i'd rather you just pass it
but in the meantime if
you're not going to let's just table it
and we'll have
and we will have everything back to you
for the for
the next meeting do you have any major
trees
that are being proposed to be removed
well
if you look at the look at our site plan
we we show them we show the important
trees
now
if i'm happy can you see there that
there's
there's three trees in the front and one
big tree behind the house that all
really worked with the existing with the
house placement
there is one older this is pretty
probably past its prime it's
kind of like a it's a multi-stem tree
that
tree has to go and there may be
and honestly in the back area by by the
background
i think there's a couple dead trees it's
hard to tell now in the winter time
but yeah basically what the
landscapers oakland had shared that
there's uh some in the way back that are
felled trees from ash borer but
uh they're gonna clean out all the dead
for us but keep all the natural stuff
right and and before that happens i just
would like to share it with the tree and
public garden commission so they're
aware of what trees are being removed
and why just to get
there they're okay yeah they'll see them
they're they're really dead and they're
one of the distance
there's many right in the way one tree
that's right there
but we can do that simultaneously while
he's preparing to resubmit we can send
this on to the
public garden commission yeah they'll
send i would i would recommend against
uh any premature taking things down
until you have the
right um
yeah it was i mean i mean some of these
are very nice trees so it's kind of like
you
across the street when he when he left
some of the big trees and made the house
look like it had been there for a long
time so it was kind of a nice
it's kind of nice
okay um so you have your list of what
you're coming back with
do i need any board members then to make
a
move to table this i have a question are
we taking two votes one on the demo
and one on the tabling of the design we
haven't done that recently we've done
one vote
i think which basically
if the house gets approved then the demo
goes with it
yeah the the new construction is
contingent
upon approval of the demo
and and the reverse is true the demo has
to be contingent on there being approval
of the new construction
exactly construction plans right right
okay so do i have a board member to make
a motion on this
emotional table i'll second the table
larry did you first it yeah i haven't
done is yes
first
okay um do you want to call the roll
kathy sure mr scott
yes mr heyer
no mr hellman
yes mr birdwall yes
madame tony yes
okay thank you um john we'll see you
back here next month
thanks everybody thanks folks thanks
john
thanks star thank you
okay let's keep going um
application p which is arb
21-20 the location is 166 south
roosevelt the applicant is ann and
richard
c mueller the uh they are requesting
uh seeking architectural review and
approval of a second floor
edition
okay karen do you have a staff report i
do and i have pictures this is the
existing home
um we have had several back and forths
in the past
but i don't think it's ever gotten to
the board um or maybe it hasn't just
never been built but i
didn't really it's this is the new
application yeah the additions
this is a new application for a house
that
really kind of desperately needs a fix
to this
issue that we've seen several times
already
um the proposal that's in front of you
um here's the floor plan takes
leaves the garage in the same place with
a very traditional portico
and a shed roof design over that
i also want to point out that while i
know we're going to focus a lot on this
piece right here
i'm very excited about the window
replacements because
this house has had these very white
vinyl
[Music]
very kind of non-descript windows for a
long time so i think it's
going to be a really great addition to
it to have these new windows in
um here is the kind of site plan
so you can see um
the area of the second floor edition as
it wraps around
i am also happy to show let's see more
pictures of the helm
so you can get an idea
of the existing conditions if you i'm
sure all of you are well
know this house
and uh here are the new elevations
i'm it is is
pretty boxy i would love to see a way to
break it down a little bit
but i'm going to let the applicant into
the panelist room
let's see if they're here yep they're
here
we have ansi mueller and if there's
anybody else that you'd like me to let
into the panelists room
let me know um i don't see anyone else
no it'll just be me okay great okay
yeah kathy can go ahead and where are
you in uh
could you please state your address ms
miller
sure it's 166 south roosevelt avenue
please raise your right hand do you saw
me swear or from the testimony you're
about to give this evening
is the truth i do thank you
i also um
never mind go ahead and
you say go ahead ann i'm sorry go ahead
and go ahead and wonderful yeah so i'm
happy to be back
it was four years ago that my husband
and i were suffering okay
yeah you can remember couldn't find it
we we did get approval for a very
similar version to this
um and so we have made just a couple
minor refinements to the previously
approved version
um and so as mentioned this is putting a
second
story addition on top of our existing
flat roof garage
and a den that is also covered by a flat
roof
the changes we've made since the last
submission is as you noted the windows
glad to see you're happy about that
we've been struggling with solutions for
the windows for a while
um so going from the sort of short and
wide windows and replacing those with
two uh smaller windows and then the
other thing that we've adjusted is the
gable over the home
it was it was previously a gable but it
was what you previously had proved sort
of a solid
triangle and so um we were trying to do
something a little bit
uh different to the peak there um
i believe that's the extent of the
changes from the from the previous round
and your timing explains why i couldn't
find it anywhere today
i was looking for the previous
application to compare but
our new system that would have been
before
so we don't have it in our electronic
system so
i i thought now i know i'm not going
crazy okay yeah i'm pretty familiar now
i agree
yes we worked with you a number of
rounds uh karen to
to get this word needed to be because i
think we've admitted sight and
everything we did
it's not going to be known as the home
that you know needs a lot of attention
yeah i'm sorry about that that's all
right
okay that's what we're here for great
okay
um so are we looking for board members
then to comments and questions
are we ready for that yep do i have
a board member that wants to speak on
behalf of this
i'm happy to start first off i think
looking at the elevation here the side
elevation versus the photograph
and i'm not one to pick on a drawing
but i think your roof slope is drawn way
too low
from what it isn't existing looking at
the height above the windows on the side
elevation
in the photograph versus the drawing i
think you're not doing yourself justice
because i think
your roof pitch and your roof lines are
very squatty
um and i i think that they're probably
not being represented well in that
elevation which i think is kind of
hurting the proportions of this
elevation
so that being said um i think it's a the
front elevation is a step in the right
direction i love that the windows are
being replaced
um and i don't have any other specific
comments
um related to all the details i think
it's
um but i just want to make sure that we
all understand that maybe the
roof isn't as short as it really it's
it's taller than it really being
represented
yeah i think you're right
um okay there is a there is a chimney so
the chimney also
uh on the side of the house isn't as
again isn't being represented in the
drawing which i think also
helps balance out the uh proportions so
on the left side of the front entry
there's a chimney
you say it's 412
i'm sorry the pitch on the roof
the existing roof would you say it's 412
eight did i i don't know what the pitch
is
i just it just looks that slope looks
like it's a
yeah right it looks steeper in photo
than it does
so it's just a statement of because i
think the drawing
i don't like it i don't like the
elevation and i couldn't it's because
the roof is so low
i think it when i picture it higher the
proportions of the elevation work better
which then i think it helps represent
what the true nature of the massing of
the house is
and again the yellow the the chimney
right by the mouse there isn't being
represented
which i think also goes to how the this
elevation is articulated
into the composition so i i think the
design solution of getting rid of this
big heavy
bar above the garage door and softening
that entry and calling out the entry i
think that's a good solution
um you know the specific details of the
the columns and how that all works out
with the trim
uh you know i think we'll need to
continue to to look at or at least have
staff look at that but uh overall i
think it's
it fits it's not raising the roof it's
not uh adding a huge mass it's
uh i think it's balancing out the
existing design
and i will say the house directly to the
north of us has done the exact same
edition it was done years and years
prior um but theirs is exactly the same
except they have their their pitch over
their garage
okay uh do i have any other board
members that want to ask questions or
speak on behalf of this
go ahead i just had a couple questions
i'm noticing in your elevations that
you're you're adding all of this
trim which you know is meant to improve
the
look of the windows but you have these
corner boards
um i'm not sure that the corner boards
actually add
character to the house is what's the
reason behind adding those hearty trim
corner boards are you turning around the
windows
no at the corners of the upper up of the
second floor
where the stucco is um i think that was
just to give it some
some dimension there's a home across the
street from us that uses um
that sort of kind of bar cross to break
up between the stucco and the brick
um specifically oh no yeah no i
understand that one but the vertical
boards that are on the second floor at
the corners are you talking about these
yeah yeah that may have just been done
try to connect into those and that
certainly is not something that we are
we are bought into that we need to keep
i think that would be a detail that
would be really difficult to get
look right hearty trim is a very
difficult material to work with as
carpenters
struggle with it because it's a cement
board and you have to use a very precise
blade and
i get that for the windows to really
concentrate on the windows but
i don't see how you're going to get the
stucco and those corner boards to look
right i would just eliminate that
and then i would just ask that you work
with karen on the front entryway
uh for you know really nice detailing i
i i like what mr scott said about the uh
the pitch of the roof it's it's clearly
taller than a 412.
from the photographs and i think that
will help the massing on the
on the side so that the addition
even though it's a two story will still
look in some way subservient to the main
block of the house which should reveal
itself
more so those are my comments
thank you mr bardwell do you have
comments questions
uh my comment is really it
relates to the fact that as i'm looking
particularly at the side
elevations i can't easily
distinguish what is existing and what is
new
and particularly when there is
stucco but that applies to other
building materials
we often look to a change in plane
to mitigate any construction
challenges with where new meets existing
so i'm in i i'm suspecting that you're
you're going to face some very
significant issues
where your new and existing
meet even if you repaint all of that
can you help me understand what your
plan is on that
yeah so the the existing is right sort
of below that
third window there is where the the end
of the
or um the existing today so everything
on the bottom there that doesn't have
windows is existing today what's being
added is just what's on top
and so right now i think there may be a
piece of trim that kind of goes down
the side of the wall but i don't think
we have any plans for anything to sort
of separate
uh the new from the from the existing
i i can only offer that
what looks nice in uh drawing
uh becomes far more difficult when that
is constructed
uh so i can only offer great caution on
that
so the entire bottom portion would all
be remaining so i guess the difference
would be the top portion that's sitting
on top of the bottom and you're saying
that sort of connectivity of the top
onto the bottom
i'm saying that from a constructability
standpoint
uh even with the best of craftsmanship
that's a real challenge
because of matching the stucco matching
the stucco matching colors
uh it's that's not something that's
easily attained
um my only comments
i'm not it's either too late or i'm not
smart enough to figure out
how far the garage element
sticks out from the main house and how
that interfaces then with the
front porch and the gable on the plans
so i i would say it sticks out about
maybe three feet
so um we'll be putting the addition on
flush with the existing frontage of the
house
and then the gable would just be that
three feet uh
difference between the garage and the
front of the house
it'd be really interesting to see uh
let's go
back to the front elevations please
um coming at it from the angle
to see how those all come together
because it it
yet obviously there's not a site plan
down on
so i can't get a sense of what that
uh inset looks like and then how far up
the porch is out
from what is the garage face and then
um you know the detail of the roofing
coming into the uh
to the gable uh entry cable
so that i that that's just you know it
reads flat and it's obviously not flat
so does the side elevation version give
you what you were looking for there
where it shows
uh right if it were from the other
direction
uh maybe it would it would be the
the the north elevation you've just you
have just got one side elevation
and that would be the south elevation
you don't have the north
right and uh
and i guess the only other things were
you know that there is
it's kind of symmetrical in front but
it's not and the windows are
i don't know what can be done about that
just as long as you're getting all this
effort
um you you know uh how much should it be
a near miss
versus it being on that's a question and
then
obviously the side elevation i think
needs some some uh
some help because of where you're
adopting in the blank portion of the
wall
that uh that needs some that needs some
thought
those are my comments okay
is the board um comfortable enough that
it's close enough that you want to
remand this back to um
karen to figure out all these details um
because i too am i just redid some
stucco on my house and i'm gonna tell
you it is
crazy hard to match that stucco line of
existing to new
so i'm just curious how you're going to
do that without having a big ugly
kind of booger running down the side of
your house so
yeah we had previously one of the prior
submissions submitted a different
material
for that part for the edition and it was
suggested to remain all stucco
yeah it would be nice if we could figure
out some way to transition it or
something just so that you had a line
that it
um that you didn't have a one you know
line running really far down the house
but
how does the board feel do you want to
remand this back to karen to figure out
these details or do you want it to come
back to you next month
i'm the one who raised the issue about
the stucco
i will remand that back to karen but i
do think it's a major issue
i agree
bill pete how do you feel about this do
you want to see it again or do you want
it to
be in karen's hands i think this could
go to karen
um yeah i'm fine with that as well
and karen you're you're comfortable with
that yeah i
am yeah i think the one other item i
just wanted to bring up that we are
um reconsidering is is doing
the uh windows replacing all the
existing windows
and sort of doing the framing on those
existing windows the current windows are
more
there are do not have the panes in them
right
so we would still do the grids and you
know the trim and
the front facing i think it's just
anything that's side facing and we're
considering not replacing
okay that might give me a little bit of
pause um
so at that point you would not have
all the you know a nice match of all
your windows on your house so
um and right now it's submitted that
you're replacing all of them is that
that's what i'm saying so yeah if that's
the way you're submitting
it i'm not sure that you can go back on
that okay
that's fair okay
karen are you comfortable then yeah i'm
comfortable i think you'd be making
i i get it that there's economics
involved but i think you'd be making a
mistake
not to do all the windows at the same
time okay
i think you're going to be shocked at
how much the windows alone
improve the look of the house i think it
will make it
look so much better just the windows
alone so
um okay so joe i have a motion then to
um approve me to read the findings
oh yes please all right uh audience
members
you know anybody standing yes do we have
anyone with standing in the audience
that would like to
speak on behalf of this no
no hands all right
then the findings of fact and decisions
of the board for application number
arb-21-20
for property located at 166 south
roosevelt
the board finds that the second floor
edition
should receive a certificate of
appropriateness
approval with the condition that the
final design details go to the design
consultant for final
design approval
larry helman and pete scott seconded
all right can you call the roll cathy
sure uh mr birdwall yes
mr hellman
yes mr scott yes
mr heyer yes
madame tony yes
thank you okay i'm seeing that we still
have what
two more applications are we okay to
keep going or does anyone want to take a
break
i i'm seeing three more is that correct
uh it could be
no i'm seeing pages i know there's at
least two
i i see q r and t is that correct
um i don't see now r was a consent
wasn't it
brian marsich no i i just have
27 64 dale
um and we just have two left
two left okay
do we need a break or is everyone okay
to keep going
let's go for it i'm good we're going
okay the next um application is
arb 21-22 the location is 2764
dale avenue the applicant is amy
lauerhouse the owner is shoe penguin
and the applicant is seeking
architectural review and approval for a
two-story edition
karen you're on okay i'm putting
everything up here
okay um
this application is for in addition to
the rear of this
um of this existing home um
i i i actually really like it um
amy and i had a nice discussion about it
it's like her first kind of
um attempt at a more contemporary
addition
to a house that i don't really know what
you call it but
um i she thought she and i
both thought that it me and so did board
members that it just merited some
discussion
um so that's why we're here with this
i'm gonna ask amy to come into the room
because i think it would be very good
for her to explain
what her clients were after and um
what her design decisions were in this
process
amy is now in the room if you want to
swear her in or
she already was sworn in but does she
need to be sworn in again
oh no amy were you already sworn in yes
i was okay okay you're good then thank
you
hey karen just just a quick um
point of just for your own knowledge
when you bring
people in from the just watching it to
being a panelist
at least for me it closes the whole
program and opens it again
um which is a little bit scary but i'm i
miss
like five seconds of whatever you're
saying so
i just wanted to let you know that oh so
it takes a few seconds to get you in
here
it does like about five to seven seconds
for it to close and then reopen with me
as a as a panelist
oh that's good to know because i should
just do it before i present then not
during my presentation yeah
thank you for telling me that the things
i don't know on this side of the camera
right right right exactly awesome
um why don't you just tell me as we go
what drawings are there's a lot of
drawings here so i want to make sure i
have
up for you i know that amy has included
some kind of samples of like
projects that um were precedents so amy
just let me know what drawings you want
up when
um yeah uh so like karen said
this is my first bexley attempt
to design a contemporary edition
on on an older home i think this home
is ripe for something
it's it's very uh you can go back to the
existing photos
karen it's extremely
nondescript somebody
tried to sort of tutor it up
on the back at some point um but
my client really wanted to go
with a more contemporary look and so
that is what i have proposed
and as part of that i uh
one of the things you were just talking
about this on your last case is we will
be replacing all the windows
um on this house as well and trying to
do some things to the existing house
to bring it into that contemporary
style um so
if we look at the elevations um
the first thing on the front
it will be yeah um is we're proposing
a covered porch across the main box of
the front of the house
and i do have some inspiration
photos for this i don't remember what it
was called
um nope
uh nope it must be the next
yeah it's got to be that yes um so this
is
is kind of the just the general look
that we're going for
more so the one on the left with um
the sort of exposed hardware
and we will be going with a stained wood
for the front porch and the connector
piece
in the back which i'll talk about in a
second and then she's wanting to do a
translucent roof
uh to that porch so that we can get
continue to get light into the front of
the house
um on the back uh if you go to
karen the three by five pictures um
these are really inspiration pictures
that she and i had looked at together
as far as how we want to combine the
exterior materials on the house
so using a combination of stone
echo and then um in the
the stained wood paneling
in the connector piece so if we now go
to the elevations
um you can see here
in the west elevation the stone and
stucco portion
will be where the garage is and then
these that center piece in the middle
will be
what i'm calling kind of a connector
piece and that will be this
the stained wood that will then relate
to the stained wood that will be
on the front porch if you scroll down
to the back
this is mostly you can see on the back
um stucco we have added some
culture some stone um on the back there
to sort of soften it up where they're
gonna have a little bit of living space
and then on the east elevation you can
see that connector
with the with the wood panels um i
really did try to you've talked a lot
tonight about you know kind of breaking
up the massing of a large addition
i've really tried to do that both with
the way that the plan is working as well
as with materials
to try and get that just
a nice composition there
so that's that's i think all i have
and i'd be happy to answer any questions
uh one thing and this may sound like a
criticism but
i we've we've uh i've we've grown so
accustomed i have to your
your drawings uh in your logo and
there's a certain expectation but this
is the first time it's rolled into
something modern
and i think the line drawings absent
renderings
make it hard to figure out exactly
what's being proposed and the
relationship of
materials and colors coming together
it's a little harder with your line
style
uh and it's and maybe it's just me but
um yeah something
as well yeah i totally understand that
i'm normally what i would do is just
show
the materials rendering of the new
portion
of an edition um in this one
i i've showed the whole house just
because i wanted to see
how the materials work together
so i i understand the
you're it's hard to tell what's old and
what's new
certainly in that west elevation the the
flat roof portion
um is the new portion and the the sloped
roof portion
is the existing portion um on the
existing
house um the stone is really what is new
as well as the windows on the first
floor um that's currently a garage so
there's there's no windows on that first
floor on that side elevation
uh i'm sorry it's not it's not as much
an issue of what's old versus new
it's just tough to get a waiting a feel
for what the materials are
uh when it's a computer graphic um
and and how those materials are actually
coming together and
and obviously they're black and white
drawings to boot so it's just they're
they're hard at least for me to
interpret what's uh what's the
relationship
between the materials and what that
means in the various spaces they're in
and what that means then overall in
terms of the modules
of the design and
amy i'll add and i'm certainly well
aware of your search and i i
uh wish you well with that but the the
challenge when you're representing
particularly long elevations that we're
looking at on screen
that that represent different planes
absent any sort of three-dimensional
representation
it's really difficult to discern
uh exactly what we're looking at
and even for now
if you were to add shadow lines or
something
to help us understand how planes move in
and out that would be
very helpful okay who wants to go next
pete
sure uh
well let's i want to talk about the
killer parts of each of these
pieces so if we talk about the front
elevation first and the
uh the light panels obviously there's
not much precedent in in bexley
for that and i think if you look at the
example photo that you provided
that appears to be like on a rear of a
house uh if it is a house
uh over a seating area um
and an outdoor patio and i think um when
it's incorporated in the front of the
house
it's it's a very different type of a
front porch versus the back patio
um is a very different um character and
almost programming
uh though you know the front porch is a
very important aspect of the bexley
house so
uh i i'm worried about the the details
of that i know you're representing it
there but i don't buy
that that's exactly how it's going to be
so i'm curious to see i would need to
see more about
what that is and i see the photo but
that's not what i see in your
elevation and then if we can go to the
east elevation
um you you have the the it's in the next
sheet yeah
the addition and the east elevation is
is is kind of broken up here
and represented in like almost a three
bay um
of massing uh where you have the
transition piece in wood
uh with the with the kind of modern
window above which i think works pretty
well
uh you have the middle bar that's raised
up and then the end with the glass
corner at the top with a glass full full
glass
facade on the second floor when you go
to your
west elevation i i think i i feel like
it's gotten
that three bay has gotten broken down
and you're using this
i'm assuming it's licking stick type of
stone veneer
cultured stone in a way that
i feel like you're you're trying to to
mimic and bring in the elements from the
architectural photos that you provided
so if you could go to the photos for me
in these in these examples each one of
these
properties uses stone differently uh the
top
left uses it in a little bit more
traditional sense
uh with the wood uh and even the column
details
uh the top right one uh starts to step
the stone
and bringing in a modern window uh but
the bottom left uses more of a
water table and of course the bottom
right has these stone piers which i
think
uh and his massing qualities that i i
feel like you're trying to pull into
your project in the way you've designed
the elevations
but there's a big difference and i think
we have to be careful
in how we pull those modern elements
into a facade
it's not very successful if it's just
kind of stuck on the same
plane of the siding versus
stone versus you know window and glass
and the stepping of that
massing in the on the actual facade
and i i i think we need to continue to
look at that on your elevations and how
that stone is being incorporated and can
we go back to those elevations
how you're you're bringing that stone up
on that
west elevation there above your garage
doors right at the window line
i i think feels um it doesn't feel
correct to me
the stone is losing it's in all of the
example photos the stone
the purpose of stone and the heaviness
of the stone is articulated and
and this isn't broken down into crazy
you know non-supported type of elements
so i think you should continue to look
at how that stone is uh
detailed on these facades because i
don't have a problem with the stone i
think it's just how it's being
represented
and how it's being cut and when where
it's uh starting and stopping
and i think the the stone on the right
right where your cursor is between the
windows
and above that three bay window which
also sits above your water table
um i know that's going to be a pretty
flat facade so that
massing of stone isn't going to read as
a mass appear appear stone it's just
going to be a
kind of stuck on there and i think
that's in the end is not going to be
i get why you did it diagrammatically
but i don't think it's going to be
successful in
um when it's built um so i think if you
continue to and i think
the approach of your connector piece is
wood your block
and masking break up works well it feels
proportionate to the building
i would just really concentrate and and
i would look at those examples that you
provided because i think all three of
those houses are interesting uh and i
think you really
pay attention to how the materials are
articulated in that modern
architectural sense and i think it'll go
a long way to drive how you finish this
design
okay thank you uh mr heyer you want to
go next
sure um but that's hard to follow
that was uh very articulate mr scott
um my my comments uh have to do with the
elevations in particular and i
you know i'm not going to repeat
anything that was just brilliantly said
um but i i would like to give some kind
of
um nod to the ranch house that's next
door i mean there's so many
uh ranches in this in this neighborhood
uh and
you know the two-story edition is
is i mean i understand you can do this
but is there a way to
to to give a nod to that one-story house
that's next door
and uh you know maybe maybe instead of
doing a completely flat roof you know
maybe it's pitched
uh in one direction even um towards that
towards that ranch house the other the
other thing um
is the double-hung windows on the
on that side that faces the your
neighbor the ranch house
and i just don't see the double hung's
actually working here they they feel
out of place um and uh
so i'd consider looking at you know the
possibility of
another kind of window there and then my
last comment has to do with
the massing i i get the 3-bay and
i've seen this before we've seen it from
your
projects before and i think they've been
successful
um but i'm wondering if the roof line
having to go up higher
isn't is a necessity to make that break
you're doing it in plan and is it
really necessary that it be done in
elevation as well
um you might consider the connector
piece
with it you're talking about the wood i
mean i think you would highlight that
more if that really became the connector
and the rest of everything the garage
you know the two the three bays of
garage and the
the beautiful glass addition at the end
you know was
was was uh that that all was
it under one roof maybe the connector
roof of the wood area is
shorter and then you have the rest of
them because i don't know that you need
to break it up
in elevation and plan to have these
three different
elements and i i would i would just
consider that because
i think it might be more powerful to
have
um you know the the material use
uh to the left of the connector piece
that's would
be a little more uniform even though i
know you're stepping in plan
you know you've got a break there but i
don't think you need to do it in
elevation
so okay
um okay did we hit everyone then
um so i i won't reiterate what everyone
else said it's
they're i think they're all right on
point um
but i i struggle with quite a few of the
elements especially the stone going both
horizontal and vertical on the main
house i feel like
you kind of need to pick one there um
i would like it if the garage doors felt
a little bit more contemporary
like that the you know the the lines in
them that
it was if they seemed a little bit more
contemporary i would like them better
so um i'd like to see this too with um
some color added to it i think that
would really help us understand
the darks and the lights and and how it
will all work
so um i think i would like to see it
come back
next month um how do the other board
members feel about that
well i i will agree and for the reasons
that i stated earlier
uh is that amy i i think you have
clearly thought through all of this
and clearly the board has great
confidence
in your skills but
the challenge is that
neither of those are clearly reflected
in what we see and i think that it would
be
to your great benefit
for you to to
work on some of the things that we've
said of colors and
shadows and if possible
three-dimensional representations that
make your case
again we have good confidence that you
can do that but we haven't seen it
right yep yes and i i'm
totally agreeable to all of that this in
my mind
this particular project um
this was sort of a first pass for me so
i
i very much appreciate all the comments
and um definitely i am totally fine with
it being tabled
um to come back next month great
awesome do you want to hear audience
comments
i don't think there are any but if
there's anybody in the audience that
wishes to speak to this case
could you please raise your virtual hand
i don't see any uh
madam chairman i i just have one more
quick comment that i forgot to mention
is if it's okay
yeah so amy on that front porch
i would just encourage you to look or to
like your
uh image that you had of the your your
precedent image
um i would encourage you to kind of get
away from
uh the um traditional
beam detail that you're showing in your
elevation
that returns to the house with the
pier against the house and really
make this you know that contemporary
uh structure that you want it to where
where those
very nice doubled uh piers are
the are the only you know those become
more
uh dominant in in the view um i just
think that by making the beam system and
everything look more traditional in your
elevations it
kind of takes away from i think what
you're trying to get here so i would
encourage you to
to look more at that i i i
did have one question amy too what are
the dark spots in the
um roof on the front that that you're
showing what are those
so those those would be the translucent
panels
um to allow light to come in through the
roof
yes something similar the whole roof
isn't translucent then you've got
panels of it yes that that was the idea
yes
correct i mean i i love the images that
you showed where the whole thing is
translucent and you're just seeing
structure i think that's beautiful
so i agree i think it becomes an
architectural element and it's not
trying to blend the traditional roof
with those kind of
infill panels okay and i would agree
also with mr heyers about
you know let the structure be celebrated
and and separate
the structure from maybe the plane of
the roof by
in its in its detailing right so the in
modern architecture a lot of the
elements get
articulated independently and are
allowed to be seen as independent
objects coming together so
think about that as you're continuing to
redesign that okay
okay um do we need to
um just move to table this
do you feel like you have a good grasp
of what we're asking for amy
i do yes thank you okay okay uh
so i need a motion to table this i will
move
to table second
all right i'll see you back next month
amy all right thank you for your
feedback
yes mr heyer you want to vote on the
table
yeah go ahead yeah
yes and mr bardwell yes
madame tony yes thank you
thanks again thank you thank you amy
okay our last application for the
evening is uh
number arb 21-24 the location is 2562
bexley park
the applicant is gary alexander the
owner is mr jonathan and mrs angela
mugler
the applicant is seeking architectural
review and approval for a porch and
accessory structure
okay i'm gonna just take a second based
on amy's feedback
to put gary into the room and not
have him miss any of my presentation
very helpful information by the way yes
okay let's let gary get in there
are you there gary i am here can you
hear me okay
yeah is there is your owner here or
anybody else that wants to testify
um i told them about their meeting time
but if they're not in the waiting room
then they're not
participating uh the new nuclears hold
on
just look um no i don't see anybody so
um it's it's all you okay um this
application
is for um it's one application but it
kind of has two parts it has a porch
and it has an accessory structure um
the reason that i believe this is before
you tonight and not on the consent
agenda items although the board members
can speak to this
is the accessory structure the um porch
um is very in keeping with the
architecture of the existing structure
you can see it here in elevation
the accessory structure which is here
is a very modern accessory structure i
really like it
there were a few board members and
myself included that just had some
questions about
um choices and the stylistic decisions
to
to do it this way and uh maybe
incorporated some of the detail if not
um stylistically at least proportionally
to get some more detail
but i'm going to give it over to gary to
explain the decision for this
and i can flip through any you know as
usual
any pictures that you want gary okay
actually karen that's that's probably a
good one to
to this one right here to utilize to
then that'll help i think explain a
little bit the rationale
of the detached structure thanks for
staying this long and getting through
the entire agenda
i appreciate it um it's nothing compared
to zoning meetings
okay well we held a record on zoning
this this project is really two pieces a
number of years ago
we did uh substantial additions to this
house
and the owners have asked us again to
help them update the house so
the one portion that's attached to the
house is the covered patio
and the covered patio aligns with the
current great room it aligns actually
with the great room
on the intent is for that living space
to extend
right out into an intermediate space and
then
into the into the backyard
characteristics of it are similar
to the house you can see um we have
panel columns there are
panel shutters in the house um the
standing seam
metal roof is something that you would
see in traditional architecture
which which is a characteristic of the
house the fireplace
is clad it is clad in a cultured stone
because the cultured stone is used
on other elements in the back of the
house so there's a fireplace in that as
well
um so that's that's the design
rationale of the of the
covered patio now we
decided to take a little different
approach to the
um it's a pavilion for both an
office and yoga studio
and then in the back of the pavilion
clad in
the standing seam the same material
we're using in the roofing
in the back of the pavilion is a storage
area
for bicycles the family has a golf cart
um so we try to articulate
break this down into a series of smaller
elements
and each each element actually
represents the function
that that is within the the trellis that
you see
on the other side is um
it actually transitions into it into a
screen
so those one by eights that are that
create the trellis above then drop down
become the screen
and the the feeling is the owners will
open these doors the doors can
completely retract to one panel and they
can also exercise out on the deck
with a little bit of coverage
particularly shielding from the
neighbors
at at the rear um
you know we tried the way we are tying
it into the house because granite is
very different
the way we're tying it into the house is
with the colors
and the way we're using the materials
the we're using the same standing seam
that we would use on the roof of the
covered patio but we're using that as a
wall surface for the storage structure
we're using the trim color for the
um around the house
you'll see the white trim we're going to
use that trim color
for the channel siding that you see
at the um at the pavilion for the office
in the yoga space and by the way that
those drawings are accurate this
material can be mitered
at its corners so we don't need corner
boards
for the particular material that's been
specified
one one change when i submitted this
to your offices one one
subtle change but but i think it
communicates our design intent
is if we go back to the one image
looking from the covered patio out to
the
out to the structure that that diagonal
image um
the and i carol karen i don't know if
you can scroll up a little bit
keep going keep going oh oh that one
that one will work
that one will work um the corner
of the at the pavilion
the right corner will actually be gray
um just to the height of the window
trim so that gray plane that the doors
are within
will continue to wrap around that corner
because when we when we designed this we
actually used
non-traditional more contemporary
compositional strategies
in the way we put this together so
that's why the decking
wraps around the corner that's why
the trellis transitions to into a screen
in an l-shaped manner and that's why the
gray
of the doors will actually wrap around
that corner so unlike a traditional
house which has
axial relationships things line up
symmetry is important
we're trying to be consistent with
actually the design
strategies in how we compose this
and that's also why it's set diagonally
to the side from the covered patio so
that's so we're really trying to create
this little jewel
in the backyard we pulled it off the
property lines
so it's just something becomes a focal
point in the backyard
okay thank you very much um do i have a
board member that would like to go first
i i would i wouldn't mind going first
here on this one
the floor is yours so um
i think this i mean gary i think this is
brilliant i i really
like uh when you said that you were
going to paint gray
the siding there that totally changed my
perception
of this particular view that you're
showing here
because i was trying to figure out
you know the sort of play between this
colonial
uh pseudo-colonial porch that you're
extending and then this modern
pavilion and now you're creating more of
a contrast as opposed to
you know having two piers at each corner
for each element
one being modern and one being kind of
neocolonial
so now you have this l-shaped white
siding
that you're going to see in this
particular view on the left
and so my challenge to you is that
that porch the colonial neocolonial
porch
i think i think uh it would be
interesting to have it have
more contrast in other words go more
rudimentarily classical for
you know the post and lentil you know
kind of look there
instead of doing panelized square
appears do something that's more
sculptured
like a dork column or or something but
and maybe the entablature has more
detail
to create more of that contrast with
this pavilion
where you're you know you're making a
statement with this modern
piece but why not do the opposite
and something that's more rudimentary
and sort of
monumentally um you know their origins
of colonial
on the right i think that would be a
great i mean it's just a suggestion but
i think that would be a great
move i think it's a great design react
both i appreciate that we actually used
round columns
at the front there's a traditional entry
portico
on the front of this house that we added
years ago so
so you're thinking we could we could
bring those
those back or something like those back
what happened at the corner of the
pavilion is we wanted
originally when we did the schematic
design we wanted that corner to be as
small
as possible but the problem with these
these retractable doors
is they have five multiple
tracks and they need a really big jam
for them to return so the diagonal would
have be even been
more minimal that corner would have been
more minimal
but it's just the nature of doors
they're opening from that corner
but yeah is it possible to set the
siding
in so that the white overhangs
um actually
um i'm not i'm not sure i'd have to look
look if we cuz we'd have to build the
wall
the wall is pretty complicated right now
to deal with these doors so it gets
really thick
i'd have to look at that yeah i mean
it's just a suggestion but i really
think you have a play here of a
dichotomy
that you could play up a little bit more
with the detailing on the
colonial porch but otherwise that's all
i have thank you
thanks uh i'm gonna
jump in
i agree i agree with mr heyer um the two
comments i'm going to
suggest or would like you to either talk
about
further is the the white column that
separates your
sliding doors there uh you can see it
right i keep seeing that and like for my
head i keep wanting to make it
panelized and which of course is not the
right decision because i see that
as a white column that you're of your
covered porch
so my recommendation i don't i don't
actually don't like the column i'd
rather see that dark gray
wrap that corner and allow your white
siding to be kind of
floating above your glass corner or a
the notion of that dark corner
so that's a suggestion that i would like
to see you think about
that if i could interject well while
it's still in my mind
that's exactly what we are going to do
and and
i didn't make it clear i tried to make
that clear but obviously i'm
tired and didn't make it clear in my
earlier comments so that's the one thing
that's different
than what what we presented is that gray
band will continue to wrap
around that corner and even if it comes
out i know there's a lot of
girth that you're going to have to carry
their structure and then all the
thickness of those doors but i think
just being gray
and allow that don't bring the white
down i think will go a long way to
help modernize that and then my my
second
suggestion would be because i can't i'm
not seeing the detail on your
i love the idea of the trellis becoming
screen wall i think that's great
uh in your drawings you show it
potentially
butting into the the main wall maybe on
a piece of trim which
which i would hate to see i love the the
kind of idea that the
the trellis wood of your screen wall
actually is maybe a two a one by eight
or two by eight or whatever material
but it at an angle is the same width
then as the height of the
siding so that it then looks like it's
tied into the siding spacing which i
think would be
a great way to tie those two together on
the vertical face
but that's just because i'm seeing it in
the rendering and the lines don't line
up and it's
it's just one of my pet peeves i think
but uh other than that
i think it's an it's a it's an
interesting little pavilion
uh i don't think it has has any any
reason to have them
totally match the existing house here in
this case
uh in a bit i think that's based on its
size uh and i think it's uh it's a great
design so
um and those are both just suggestions
not conditions
exactly well one you already agreed to
the one so yeah yeah we're here to do
that one and i think it's just the
detailing this is a sketchup model
i'm guessing uh so it's just it is yeah
all right just something i'm sure you
will be looking at and thinking of but
it's uh
something that i would find very
interesting okay thank you
thank you mr hellman or mr bardwell
i want one
mr bardwell do you have any comments
you're on mute
i know if i can just get my mouse to
work um uh
i think gary i i think you've done a
very very fine job both in
concept and execution on this
uh and so i'm i'm very supportive of
this
uh the only thing that i will offer and
this
has no bearing on my
uh intent to approve this but
the the you you have beautifully
conveyed this
as a a pristine
environment free of any adjoining
structures and the reality is
that this is a typically dense
bexley neighborhood and i've gone to the
aerial photo of what adjoins this so
i i will simply offer the observation
that as beautifully crafted as this
is it will never be seen
in as pristine a setting as what we're
observing
you might the back side i
i would agree with you there's a
trampoline um
that trampoline is is probably going to
stay
on the back side and that and that's why
those doors ideally
we would have liked to center those rear
doors um
in the center of that rear elevation but
because the trampoline is really
important
to some family members we place those
doors
on the elevation facing the house so i i
uh mr bardwell
i would agree the back side is going to
be a little bit more
congested but currently the way the way
the yard is
is is developed there is this
large green portion um that's in front
of our pavilion
so so the view that karen has on the
screen
right now and there may be some for some
long furniture and things
that migrate out but but i i don't think
we've
inaccurately represented things so
and gary i'm not faulting that at all
and and
and uh what i'm observing is not what
you can control that's on your site
uh my observation is it relates to
uh the imposition of the adjoining
properties
and that's nothing that nothing you will
ever be able to control
uh it's just the observation that that
you've crafted these
beautifully pristine uh
drawings that unfortunately
we as architects know will never achieve
that reality
karen and i had a long a conversation
about something similar today
so
again i commend you i think this is i
think this is very well done
thanks i appreciate it without without
beating that horse
um here we have a very small jewel of a
project
but is made clear by very good
renderings
and information yet within five or six
of our applications tonight
much bigger huge issues huge coming
together
materials bases volumes and roof lines
and so forth
with uh with black and white drawings so
it just it just shows how
how how much better it is to understand
and enjoy
what the design is yeah
and you want to see it and it shows the
the depth
of your investigation uh which
we which i certainly greatly appreciate
oh thank you
yeah do we have anyone in the audience
that wants to speak on us
please raise your hand if you do i don't
see any at this time
just have i just have one question for
you as you're going to put the standing
seam
metal on the side of that
are you concerned at all about that
denting over time and
starting to look kind of worn and
well it you know it's good it's going to
it's it's a fair comment it's going to
be up against
a you know rigid substrate so
that that helps stabilize it to some
extent and
unlike a roof which which takes hail
directly this isn't going to take
the the direct hits that hail would now
grant it sometimes
you have driven rain so um
i guess i guess we'll we'll see
um it's it's used we see metal
metal siding in sheets used like this
pretty frequently
in in construction so in more
contemporary designs
but so i i guess
we'll just have to see fair point
yeah i i just want to say i do i i the
more you simplify it the better i like
it i've
had a little problem with that corner i
was worried i guess how you were even
going to miter all those and make them
look
amazing because that corner is so
dominant so i think by darkening that it
will
um make it not quite so uh obvious so
okay um do we have a board member that
wants to make a motion
would you like me to read the findings
yes please all right
findings a fact and decision of the
board
for application number arb 21-24 for
property located at
2562 bexley park
the board finds it
finds it appropriate to approve a
certificate of appropriateness
as submitted noting that the rear porch
edition and accessory structure are
architecturally compatible with the
existing structure
and just note that the change in color
on the corner there kathy
yes but with the change as uh
what corner is that north
west it would be that would be south
south
south west southwest yeah yeah southwest
southwest corner
will be a dark color to paint to match
the windows or the doors
okay um do i have a motion then
so moved
in the second second all right higher
who seconded it
i heard bill higher seconded
and who made the motion sorry no i made
the motion
all right thank you peter
that's right two pieces um i'll call the
roll mr scott
yes mr heyer
yes mr hellman
yes mr bardwell yes
madam tony yes
thank you okay thank you you are
approved
thank you thank you very much good night
well done
good job gary
okay i'm not sure that we have anything
else is there
anything else anybody wants to talk
about before we
learn i don't want to tie this up any
longer but is there a way to
require getting color and color
renderings
with these submittals we we spend so
much time going over them we they're
they're hard to understand and
uh it's just it's just you know anything
that causes us to not
to get further into these things further
develop so we don't have to table
everything
uh just to know that is a standard on
many cities requirements
throughout columbus and the country for
that matter
you say they are pete they are yep
i don't think i've run into one word
it's not well the the bottom line
is it is to the advantage of the
applicant's representative
to show things at the very least in some
axonometric
fashion which is just
very simply done and the next level up
that
most everyone can do now is sketchup for
three-dimensional representation
to show complex facades
in two dimensions is to their
great detriment and they need to know
that
i will make it clear
okay i think we're good and it's very
late well done staff that was a lot of
work yeah
yeah my kudos to staff on this
because you you were able to contain
what would have been
a 2 a.m adjournment into to a
9 10 o'clock adjournment so thank you
very much
well thank you to all the board members
for all of your
time and reviewing this ahead of time um
i think
everyone did a great job so
you too suzanne great job leading
tonight that was great great stuff
i think that calling the board members
by name although might put you on the
spot was
excellent because it it really
streamlined the process yep kudos to all
yeah it was interesting watching some
other boards how
much more precise their comments were
and just
i think it worked out well so yeah yeah
okay so we will adjourn
thank you all and have a good year thank
you