[Laughter]
we will call to order the march 10
2022 bexley architectural review board
and we will start with the
roll call
are you doing that karen yes i am but i
have forgot to do this
mr scott
here
mr heyer here mr hellman here mr hall
here and chairman
here
okay we have um
public comments
so this is the part of the meeting that
you can come up and speak about
something um before the board
if it's not one of the agenda items um
if you want to speak about something
that is on the agenda tonight you need
to have standing
so if you want to speak about something
that's not on the agenda tonight you can
is there anyone in the audience that
would like to speak and give us some
public comment
okay our next is approval of old meeting
minutes
did everyone get a chance to read them
yep i'll uh i'll move to have them
approved
a second
we'll call the role
mr scott
yes
mr heyer yes
mrs
yes mr hall yes
yes
okay our next item then is to um approve
our consent agenda items and we have two
of them
so for the audience these are um two of
the cases before the board
that we
have reviewed individually and if we
wanted any small tweaks made they were
done and so we are just going to go
ahead and approve them
quickly
so the first one is application number
b b's app 22-5 the address is 2370
brentwood
the applicant is peter cranach
the owner is emily ferran and rodrigo
iglesias the applicant is requesting a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for architectural review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for an addition and a
new attached to garage
the second consent agenda item is
application visa 22-6
the address is
2382 brentwood the applicant is amy
lauerhouse the owner is janet peggleson
and fred roker
the applicant is requesting a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for architectural review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a second floor
addition to the rear of the existing
home
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to comment on either of those
applications
seeing none
i need to move to approve move to
approve
the consent agenda second
mr hall
yes
mr hellman yes mr heyer yes mr scott yes
and chairman tony yeah
so that takes us to old business
the first application under old business
is arb 22-1 the address is 501 north
park view the applicant is jonathan
i'm sorry i'm going to butcher your name
thank you very much i appreciate that
and the honors the honor is also
jonathan
thank you
the applicant is requesting an
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a sun
room edition
so we will start with karen's
um staff report on this project okay
um
i
didn't even print it off so i'm going to
give it verbal off the top of my head
because i forgot to print off a stack
report for myself but i um want to start
by saying that this was actually an
agenda by for last month but the
applicant
in a minute
and the applicant has
asked for a table until this month which
is why we're hearing it now
um
i didn't feel like the drawings were
complete enough last month
i still have some issues with the
drawings as they are but they're much
better than they were last month i also
had the opportunity to go out to the
site it is a very difficult site it is
um
for those of you that aren't aware it is
the part of parkview that backs up to
the water and the riparian setback it's
not in the riparian setback it does not
need a variances just here for arb but
there are it's complicated because of
the way it's cited um we're here today
just to talk about the architecture um
there is some
additional information about the
landscape that has been added as well
with some of the proposal for some of
the
boulders and rocks to in the landscape
plan i would
just start off by saying that i think
that should be reviewed by elena andrews
our landscape consultant um so that
would be a condition that whether it's
approved tonight or table tonight i
would ask that that be part of a
condition
um
as well i i wanted to point out that
there's some of the picture there there
are a few things i still i'm not quite
comfortable with i did ask the applicant
to do a
revision of the drawings because some of
the windows weren't represented last
time as they existed as they actually
are and that has been corrected i still
think that there's some incomplete parts
of the application that we can talk
about tonight and get some um feedback
from the board i'm not real comfortable
with the idea that the the um
the basement or the storage part of it
will be unfinished i've actually talked
to the applicant and they've agreed that
they would finish it down with the to
match the existing materials down
to grade
um and just to confirm that all the
stucco and all the trim trim work eaves
etc would match the existing and that
was all also confirmed that
i'm sure the applicant can address on
record
this
if you can see this little diagram here
is the existing roof diagram and the new
sunroom is drawn on there not quite um
and the detail that i wanted to
understand for how the two roofs connect
to each other
but it has um
you know we can talk that through
tonight as well
um
i think that's probably all the
background i can give if you want to um
come and be sworn in
i'm nasty raise your right hand
do you soundly affirm that the evidence
you're about to give shall be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth
in your names jonathan yama nana egbo
thank you
go ahead and um
yeah talk about your project okay
as far as the
the sunroom goes can you see you have
that box right there
yes
the buckle is this really says sunroom
there'll be a valley right there
there'll be a valley
yeah
so
it will basically
pitch to the other side of the of the uh
edge of the roof
so
here i know you see you're saying
something about not don't understand how
hot
attach it attaches to the to the roof
but with the valley right there it's
it's i mean you
so the plan that we're trying to
uh do is building a sun room edition
with a deck coming off of the sunroom
and under the sun room will be a storage
space for our lawnmower snow machine and
everything that's that's what that
bottom portion will be
the
sunroom itself
will try to maximize as much light from
uh from the surrounding backyard
um
there will be no
entry into the deck into the deck except
uh
through the sunroom
um
and then under the sunroom will just be
like a patio space
so can i ask you a question are you
actually the one that's doing the
drawing no no i'm his wife
um anything else you want to
explain that's part of the
okay i'll start with the board then um
bill
well i mean
it looks pretty straightforward i just
do worry about that valley how do you
intend to flash that valley so that you
know the snow and the water will
come out because the roof intersection
yeah one picture is higher that was one
picture as high as possible and then let
it slope into that area
yeah your roof your roof plan though um
well there's a partial roof plan but it
doesn't really show
how the valley works with the gable next
to it so there's this and there's this
where they come together
the water
so the i think you
you have to work out the flashing for
that valley which would probably be a
metal flashing and almost like a low low
slope you're going to get leaves in
there you're going to get lots of snow
so you have to be very careful
i just want to point that out as a just
as a general building
uh bit of advice that's a it's always a
place where water is going to collect
and leaves and so on
um
you didn't want to stare going down from
the deck no no
um the details is it all pressure
treated wood yeah painted uh you mean
yeah no no but it's not what you call it
um composite it's composite yeah
and so it'll be stained
yes i mean i mean it comes it comes
pristine completely yeah okay
and it'll be uh like a dark wood dark
yeah okay
black if we can
match a trip and all the stucco details
and the corner boards are going to match
what's on the existing house
i have no further comments
mr hellman
um
somewhat similar um
when the two roofs come together
that's a problem the other problem not
all together sure where the downspout
let me back up
among the other things we try to do
uh when we review projects
is to try to identify issues that might
come up later
that could have been corrected now
but then later on the homeowner says boy
i didn't realize that was going to work
that way or that was going to be the
problem that it is and so one of the
things that's very very very very
important with anything we review
is drainage
because if if roof areas don't drain or
if there's not an adequate way to get
drained water does horrible things to
new additions uh and so we're very very
concerned about that and then this is
the stage
where we try to say let's make sure we
understand how water is going to
basically
in most cases when you have when you
have a print it's difficult to explain
it but on a job site my guys know how to
frame rooms like this
yeah and they and and for example one of
the issues that's going to get covered
up
with the new addition
and the patio the or the deck
is where does the downspout go
well
it it is it going to go down through the
deck
it's going to come all
this corner there there's already a
downspout at that corner that corner
doesn't have to go down through the door
no one's going don't they're going to be
okay so
in my mind that's not overly clear and
to get that clear i think is pretty
important i think the the other
basically what we want to really do we
do the god itself you know at some point
you know once once the roof comes in
the existing existing corners of the
goddess that we've
replaced and then
the gutter see it's it's that
intersection of the roofs
and how the gutter works there
and how all that's going to work that
that to me is not clear now maybe if
it's for others fine but that that
concerns me i think one other issue
which is more and that's that's as you
would uh wish it but um
if i had a it's just this isn't a
uh a requirement it's maybe a
recommendation
but if i'm going to have that amount of
outdoor space in terms of the deck
i would sure want to access it from
inside my house
and not from the stairs that's way over
to the side coming up and then walking
to the other area so some of these doors
kind of opened up onto the onto the deck
from the inside
um there's a side view
look in the plan yeah there's a sliding
door so it looks like it's not that one
that's that's from the outside but else
yes so there is access from the sun room
to the deck
and where does that occur right here the
plan
right here right here
yeah i i i just have a trouble reading
these uh it's it's just not clear
because there's not an elevation that
shows on that side so
to me that was just a hard hard thing to
yeah to read and to pick up uh i think
what you're trying to do certainly makes
sense if it is
made compatible with the rest of the
house in terms of how the trim comes
down and the color comes down so it
doesn't just look like something that
occurred and it
not within the character of the rest of
the house and then likewise uh even the
door color uh you know you have a white
door down there which looks a little
weird with all of the grays and the trim
that's the stuff that's a thumbnail that
door should go and then you should have
a matching door uh for your service door
so that the back of the house looks as
good as the front of the house that
would be my goal for you yeah okay okay
yeah
mr hall
yeah i think the
the issue with the valley of the roofs
that's a that's a huge valley there is
going to be
i'm not even sure how you flash that to
be quite honest with you i mean you have
to create a very large gutter out of
there because you are going to have snow
building up in there and so forth so i
don't know if there's a way to frame in
just get the
almost get the water to
slope out of there and into a gutter in
the back
um
but it you know it looks like you're
trying to match the existing aesthetic
of the house which i think is is
appropriate
um
and i i understand the flow and how
you're getting from one space to the
other is the sunroom going to be
conditioned meaning are you gonna put
heat yeah it's gonna have um a mini i
mean it's splitting
okay yeah
and so it'll have a split system on it
of some sort so yeah is that what this
wall mounted you know yeah
that's all i have
mr scott
hi hello
um
are these your drawings these are good
drones this is my buddy but he's in that
he was an architectural fan
oh he does yeah okay
uh the only comment i have i think uh i
agree with all that's been said to a
point um
i just have a question the finish on the
foundation wall
under the screened in porch
this calls out as block is that gonna be
left block or are you going to stuck on
that i mean actually it's going to pour
the wall and then we'll stuck over here
you are going to stuck on yeah
uh okay uh that's all i have
okay so that leaves me so um
i have a huge concern
about your three roofs coming together
because it's not just the tube it's the
third roof the amount of water that is
going to come off of all those three
roofs into that one valley and come off
the corner when it is pouring rain
you're going to have
water just gushing over that um
downspout that gutter it's never going
to handle all of it
a lot of people have problems just when
they have two coming to two groups
coming together you have three roofs
coming together but we can always have
like four downspouts at the very end of
it could be on a downspout
i hear you and it is your house but i
would never build what you're what
you're drawing i would never build that
ice is gonna back up in there in the
winter and you're going to end up with
water coming in the house so
as much as you know we're here for
architecture we're also here to try to
help you so that you don't end up
building something that you're going to
regret and what i see drawn there is
something that you're going to regret so
i don't want to stop you if you if you
know that and you're willing to go forth
but
i i would i would not be building there
are other ways of doing a roof on that
even if you just decided to do a flat
roof on that and let those two roofs
drain onto one big flat roof
and then maybe you build a little kind
of parapet wall or something to it and
then you can get a couple gutters coming
down at least it that big flat roof
could handle all that water coming down
i don't i don't think what you've drawn
is is a good design at all yeah yeah
maybe the architect didn't draw it
properly but i know
i do this for a living so i already have
homes i buy homes and i restore homes
i've done worse than this so i know when
it's put together i hope you'll be glad
i've got to invite to come look at it
yeah yeah
um but honestly your application is not
totally complete because we're asking
you to draw
what those roofs look like we're asking
you to draw you know the details and
your application really is still not
complete because you really aren't
showing us the details of how things
come together
and we think that that's how you fully
understand
what is going to work or
or how it's going to work
so
i i'm reluctant i'll be honest i don't
want to stop you from doing something if
you're you know you're so sure about it
but at the same time
what i see is is not something i would
recommend building
i i would suggest i'm not comfortable
either because uh
i like expediency and we like making
people happy but sending down the road
with something we know is going to be a
problem
hard for me to sleep with
so
i would not support the application as
it's presently existed what i would
suggest does this get tabled and you
talk to a roofer you talk to a roofing
company uh to look to see what can be
done to handle that area so that you can
come in here and you know you're gonna
get positive drainage out of that thing
um
i'm not willing to take your risk in
terms of the roof it's not it's just
it's unnecessary i mean let's do it
right if we if you're doing it right
we'll make you happy putting something
and spending money and a lot of money
and putting in place and all of a sudden
it's a mess and your yard's a mess
because the water can't handle it and
this the drainage isn't handled uh and
then it's going to be twice as expensive
to figure out how to solve it so let's
solve it now
that's michael
so you would suggest a flat wood
i think part of the
but with a flat roof
because one of our goals was to make
sure that it
matched the existing house and
our roof is so steep
i think that was we wanted to make sure
that
um that i i don't know of a flat roof
well
a flat roof is not really flat right so
it is sloping but
there are issues with flat roofs
obviously over time
um and particularly
you don't have as much room for
insulation because you know now you're
talking about putting the insulation
into the joists of the roof
i think this can be resolved i do i just
think that we need to see it we need to
see that roof plan
the way it's really going to be built
before we you know i mean we want to
improve our community we want to make
sure that you're building something that
whether you live in it for a long time
or you go to sell it you're not going to
be confronted with ice damning and other
issues
and you know it's kind of rare that we
see a project come before us an
application where
that really is the determining
thing in the review but in this case i
think you've heard that
the roof is that that roof really needs
to be resolved otherwise from my point
of view
you know i'm ready to approve but i
think uh i think it's a great idea that
you really have a roofer work out that
detail before we
give our final that's my opinion yeah i
think drawing it in detail is going to
help you figure out and help all of us
feel very comfortable and hopefully come
up with a great solution that you don't
have any problems with down the road so
um but you haven't drawn enough to
i mean you haven't even really drawn the
roof of
what of the of the addition to show how
it's connecting
and some of the drawings that you have
are wrong like when you show that the
pitch of the existing um little porch
area and then you show the pitch of the
um of the roof you just draw a straight
line between them and i don't even know
what that straight line represents like
right there i don't even know what that
straight line represents at the top
right there
so your drafter needs to do a section
cut through the sun room
so we can see the roof
rafters
the ridge beam
the joists you know you really you
should show uh
the valley you know where this where the
roofs come together in a section cut you
know what i mean
you're cutting through the building and
looking at those framing details
because that's going to be important now
your drafter knows how to draw we've
seen a lot
worse you know come this is these are
actually quite nice elevations but the
sections are really going to teach you
and and help you to understand
and here's the solution
because we got to where we are right now
we didn't even have
the rest of the house elevations or
floor plans that showed how and he
he put me on the phone with him and he
immediately did exactly what i asked him
to so i think we i can talk to him again
and we just go that one step further i
think you're on your way
okay
yeah i think this i think the section
cut will will
tell you
your your solution and in the meantime
we can also you know bring elena andrews
the
landscape our
architect consultant into this loop to
help you with the boulders and the water
retention issues okay
okay
all right so if you're okay asking for a
table um then this you can come back
next month if you have the the all that
detailed out and you can have your plan
worked out for landscape with karen and
then hopefully we can get on
considerable agenda over next month does
that sound okay okay thank you so we'll
put it to a vote for um
for tabling
somebody want to make a money uh i move
we table this application to the next
meeting
second
mr hall
yes mr homan yes mr hayer yes mr spot
yes
yes thank you thank you
and encourage you again to work with our
to work with karen
to make sure
so the next time let's see if we can get
you on the consent agenda
okay
thank you
okay the next application is uh arb 22-2
the address is 2785 elm
the applicant is valerie hallas the
owner is david che
the applicant is requesting
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
front porch edition
give some background
okay um this application was before the
board
at the last meeting and was tabled so
the applicant can work on kind of
simplifying the design it was um pretty
um busy and then our the uh board asked
the applicant to go back and talk to the
client and and kind of simplify it to to
better match the existing conditions of
the house which it's a pretty simple
house
um
it's
there let's see bring up a picture here
there we go
um
the applicant did make some very sick
very nice changes it also had a weird
condition where the porch came out in
front of the stoop so we worked on that
as well um
i still think that the columns in the
front look a little thin so
this is the old one yes yes yes you're
right it is
that's okay
to make sure i can find the new one
yeah the date is february 28th for the
complete submission
sorry i must have uploaded the other one
just so we could have a reference point
and in return i confused myself so um
anyway why don't you come on up and i'll
swear you in and you can um
talk about the changes that you've made
okay can you raise your identity and
state your name i'm valerie
do you solemnly swear
sorry do you only affirm and that the
evidence you're about to give shall be
the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth i do
go ahead and talk about the changes that
you've made
um yeah so i was able to talk to my
client um
and um with the comments from the board
and i got them to agree on some things
that we would originally talked about
but they were pushing me in a different
direction so
um we've created
stone plinths
to support the columns that support the
new roof
of the porch
and
simplified
so it's kind of like similar to a king
truss
um
which you can kind of maybe better see
um in the 3d views of how that kind of
goes together
yeah so it's kind of pulled back um also
um it wasn't mentioned last week but
i've um
kind of emulated the um
shadow
board that was on the fascia
of the existing it's really kind of like
a
aluminum drip edge
on the fascia of the existing roof and
created a shadow board on
the new roof
to kind of
thin that line
because the comment was that it was um
chunky whenever i talked to karen
so um we tried to simplify it um
also um
added
the fluting
to the columns that were adjacent to
the existing door
so that trim so basically
um
i think everything else is the same
we still have the standing seam metal
roof um
i think that's it
okay um
mr hall you want to go first yeah
um so this is much improved i think the
uh stone plants and everything really
really helped it
i
i really do struggle still a little bit
with the uh the dimensionality of the
columns they
they just look out of scale with
everything that's else that's going on
there and i'm almost wondering to get
double them up or something or
or
you know do you fatten them up because i
think you know these are sitting on a
rectangular
plant yeah so you really can't make them
any larger this way but if you maybe
doubled them maybe that would help with
that but i think overall it's a great
improvement and um other than that i
really don't have any comments okay
mr hellman
comments
um
maybe i should go last since i was not
here to review this
just to hear what the rest of the
comments are mr scott that's mixed me
okay okay same okay no no no uh i have a
i have some things to say so i i i agree
i think it's improved but i think i have
some problems with the detailing right
so i have some
the i i like the
kind of interpretation of a classical
gable and
uh your you've brought in some kind of
box columns with um
some detail on it but i think the
challenge i have is if we look at a
traditional um
gable
kind of
detail the column typically wouldn't and
what we'll say is the fascia is what
we'll call the cornice
traditional
gable hand here um
that column wouldn't sit on that it
would sit on it would sit on the freeze
right there would be another box down
below and it allows that column to kind
of sit outside of the freeze and then
the cornice
or fascia in this case were breaking
kind of would sit past the freeze
and i think here and i've made some
comments to the
karen about during my review is that i
think the column should drop i don't
want to design this for you but i think
if you looked at the traditional and and
you
you have this um what in in elevation
looks like it's the trim that's beyond
that's on your
uh i think actually on the house
structure
that is your could act as the freeze
board
and then the columns would sit down so
that you could box out like maybe
perpendicular to the house to pick up
the column and then take that back
because it's open right you have an open
front
there's no way to kind of bring that
across effectively without making it
kind of really weird but i think the
columns are sitting too high okay and
again i'm not a total expert on all that
i would lean on mr hires and others
but i think that that's my i don't have
a problem even with the width of the
columns i think
um
it's kind of a
composite kind of
proportions and you're trying to make a
lot of different things fit so i
appreciate that you're kind of trying to
get that and i you did pick up some of
the you simplified the i think i
referenced the king truss
which i did some more research on them
they're actually our king trusses
so yeah i'm sure you were much confused
on that so i apologize but i understood
but i think i think it's better because
i think that it was a little bit
confusing and didn't work with the
overall style of the house yeah the
client really loves that yeah so i think
for me it's just the the one and and
maybe i'll lean on mr heyer's uh
comments if he has any on the column
detailing um
i just want to see those columns dropped
in a in another piece of kind of support
structure that holds up the gable
i think that that'll work better
in in this in this case
without designing it
well now i got to go to mr because sorry
he may be totally good with us i don't
know sorry i didn't want to put any
words in your mouth
this is this is the first time i'm
reviewing this so no problem if i repeat
something from last month then i
apologize or if i bring something up
that's already got resolved um as much
as i can't design this for you i'd like
to give you a couple pointers from
understanding
what we call post and lintel
construction which is the column and the
beam system that goes above
and right now as mr scott indicated
there really is no beam system here so
the columns are
you know it's like the guy making the
pizza you know he's got his hands
underneath it but it keeps flopping down
around his hands and it's because there
is no support structure
and so it feels like there's this big
wide soffit thing going all around these
columns when in fact there really should
be a beam there as he said
my recommendation is just to have it run
from the house out to the top of the
columns you don't even need to have it
go across the front you can keep the
same look
as you've got here just by running the
beams out
um
and they can still line up with the
what you call the shadow board on the
house and the brackets are supporting
and then the columns would push down as
mr scott indicated i agree with that
the other thing is the overhangs you
know on the sides so typically you would
see an overhang on a porch like this of
maybe six to eight inches
and yours is more like a foot foot and a
half i don't i don't know the dimension
and it's unequal which is okay
but i think it's too much
um so doubling the columns or
the problem with with post and lintel is
that visually you don't want the columns
to look like they're taking on more than
they can handle
it's a weird anthropomorphic thing but
when you spread your columns out too
wide it feels like these poor things
have to deal with all this weight on top
of them if you have them too close
together in a large overhang it feels
kind of teetery right and right now
you're kind of in the middle but
it still feels like um with the columns
so far apart
that it's lacking that sort of
constructability like it is kind of
teetery
so
um
[Music]
you know how you resolve that could be
doubling the columns as mr hall said and
or it could be
the beam system and then reducing the
overhangs on the side could really
sharpen this up the other question i had
was
are your trusses
lined up
with the columns
because in your sketchup view
i can't really tell
it looks like they are but it's hard to
tell if they're
in line with the columns if they're in
back of the columns but they should be
lined up with they are lined up okay
and you have that's only there's only
one
yeah and then it's open behind that all
the way back correct and there's one at
the wall
no no no what's at the wall it's just a
it's just a blank framed
i would encourage you to do like a thin
truss against the wall you know even if
it's painted in between
just to carry that detail through you
know as so it looks like it's being
supported by the same thing
otherwise it'll feel kind of plastic you
know because it's just a big triangle
that's white inside
[Music]
so i think the overhangs
and
the
um this you know the beam coming out the
other thing
about this house that is striking is
that it's really all about the brackets
so honestly i look at the design and i
think
to me columns really aren't part of
the language of this architecture so how
do you introduce columns that really
look like
because there's there's there's this
thing going on and then there's this
thing going on and they to me they don't
really
go together
was there any discussion about that yeah
yeah that my one of my first proposals
was for it to like as the roof to be
supported by a bracket but they don't
have enough they don't they didn't they
weren't interested in that yeah so so
what you can do on your columns your
peers is you can give the capitals a
bracket type of feel okay so you notice
on the house that you have sort of an og
shape
well you could have capitals that come
you know that start to extend just on
the sides out each way on the column
which will give you that bracket look
and also it will get rid of your
overhang
so you know what i'm talking about it's
just a straight column and then on each
side you have
this going on at the top
and miss poker can can show that to you
or you know discuss it with you further
but that would
bring the bracket look back to the
columns and with beam
you know you would wind up with uh i
think a porch that would look
really tied into the language of the
architecture those are those are my
suggestions
well uh i'm seeing it also uh or
reviewing it tonight for the first time
um i i think
first i think the concept
uh it has some real merit uh
what what what what i see is a really
dominant
stone
your heavy fascia board coming out and
it has an element of welcoming and and
makes that entry special especially with
the curved walk and so this should be an
extension of that experience i do like
the metal roof because i think that then
further accentuates that piece as being
special um i would parallel bill's
comments and wondering with the width of
the fascia board whether that should be
the extension outward
for the porch so that if the the weight
and the feel of that so it doesn't feel
like the kind of something that got
attached later on but rather as this
logical extension of the power of what's
already there in terms of those elements
coming together because quite you know
right now uh you don't want to if you're
going to do it you don't want it to be
neutral and you don't want to go
backwards and what's there now is
actually pretty good i mean it actually
works pretty well so this wants to be
make it better
and so is there a way it can be the
logical extension of some of those
elements that i think we've talked about
here because stone has weight and mass
the the fascia board has a certain
weight and mass to it
and you don't want to dilute that with
the elements that are coming to support
this appendage
so if that makes sense that would be my
added comments i have one more thing to
add i didn't get the i think your depth
of your column base is great i think
your width and the front elevation
leans us to want to see two columns
because it's the column base is not
proportionate to the column so i would
really look at that as well as and look
at again i would turn back to classical
proportions because that will help guide
that kind of balance between ball
yeah and then you could have two beams
on each side coming out from the house
and now you've got this really nice
support for your trusses yeah and the
trusses will feel like they're really
resting on something instead of just the
column which gives it that teethery
feeling right now yeah i agree and that
would that would extend the the feeling
of the mass of the house would come
forward and now the whole house is solid
right yeah
right
i have nothing to add
it's all being said um so what would you
like to do would you like to come back
next month would you like to
hear a vote it's all whatever you want
i don't
accept you guys really i would i would
really like to see this again because i
think
where we're going
where you're going with this with our
comments
is really exciting i'd really like to
see this in its final form so that we
can vote on that okay
i i i would i'm sorry i would agree i
think you're
it's it's getting actually quite
interesting where this could go
and i'm very interested to see this
again because i think it'll be actually
quite unique and could be very very cool
i would add one additional thing because
um
your house
um has many that are similar in respect
to where that front piece comes out
to carry stone and to give the house
kind of a front gravitation and so this
represent if this is done really really
well in terms of how it extends that um
you know there are other people that
will do this exact kind of thing and so
yours becomes a house of example and
that's important for certainly important
for us to so that these things happen
it's like yeah that's how it's done boy
that really works well it only comes
through doing what we're doing right now
that's the only way i agree thank you i
appreciate it right it's really taken a
big step since last time and i think
these suggestions yeah i've taken a lot
of notes so yeah i i do too but yeah
thank you i appreciate it exciting we'll
look forward
okay so we will um table you till next
month yeah okay and if it comes back
again we could maybe end up with it on
consent okay great let's just include
the date we didn't do that last we just
said next month but let's include
tabling until april 14th so april 14th
okay wonderful
so move
second
[Music]
okay
a vote
mr scott yes mr hall yes mr hellman yes
mr heyer yes okay thank you thank you
yes
thank you
okay uh let's see the next one is
oh yeah
okay
okay the next application is number arb
22-7 the address is 933 vernon the
applicant is benjamin babeau the owner
the applicant is requesting
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
front porch edition
okay background from karen yes um this
applicant um would like to put a front
um
uh portico a cover over his front um
his entire
front first floor
um
i had a very nice conversation with him
i've worked with him a lot he's done
quite a few projects here very well
easy to work with i did express that i
was concerned about this particular
project
i'm trying to get to the drawings hold
on
um and the form that it's taken so far
it's a really
cool facade as it exists and there's
some issues with some stone that
he'll speak to himself that he wanted to
to protect or fix
um
i i'm
concerned about this proposal and and
i've already talked to mr babbo about
this so he knows he's expecting to just
get some feedback um and table it until
next month if that is what he wishes to
do because
it just seems kind of
not a decisive solution it's not quite a
gable it's not quite a hip i don't
really
think it's quite there yet
and i don't think it really complements
the very um
i think
cool front
arch
entryway
so again this could be a really
interesting
solution
we're looking pretty far from it still
but
um i agreed that it would be fair with
the application and on time and pretty
complete even though not
satisfactory and design that you could
have a few minutes of the board's time
today to get some feedback so
um if you want to come on up state your
name raise your right hand
and babo
um do you solemnly affirm that the
evidence you're about to give is the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth i do
go ahead and go ahead and give us an
explanation
so in addition to wanting a front porch
that extends
our main goal is to have
enhanced functionality but then also to
help keep water away from that stone
like when they put that on they didn't
have tyvek and i feel that there is
potentially some condensation
that forms behind that uh stone
uh there's a cellar below that front
porch
and every once in a while when there's
just a lot of water uh you'll see
condensation so kind of my the main goal
is really twofold to protect the stone
as well as make something that's
aesthetically pleasing
we have added a little bit more detail
to what the engineer had drafted in
terms of actually how to build
the porch and that would be round
pillars
if it's all right could i pass out a few
of the pillared
that was another thing that we had
discussed ahead that these were just
not detailed columns
engineer columns
i'm not architectural exactly
photo
yeah
my wife really wants round pillars um
these are fiberglass
8.8
they're eight inches they're tapered
round
up to the top
and what karen and i had spoken and i
and now that
now that we've done quite a few more
projects since these plans are drafted
that uh
the faux gable in the front or that faux
dormer
i do think needs
some work
whether it be removed entirely or
rounded
and then our other plan is is because of
the when we do the porch
the existing
masonry
front tile that was probably put on in
the 70s
that'll come off
and we'd replace it with a hardy it
looks nicer in the picture but when you
get up real close to it
it definitely has kind of an
older
like
not not original to the house where i
think this uh straight-line
hearty cement fiberboard shake would
would enhance the look
is there anything else i think that's it
um
yeah i'll start with board questions
sure
thanks for bringing the round columns
uh
looking at the the submitted drawings
they're they're by an engineer and it's
it's clear that it's not by an architect
so i use those drawings as an intent
like this is what the intent it's almost
like structural drives it's like just a
line but that's means of being
um
so knowing that there's a round column
um you know the style
could be debated on the appropriateness
but i'm going to talk about the overall
approach to the massing
i think thanks to the round does work
with the round door i think there's some
relationship there so i think uh that's
probably could be so i could be sold on
that i have a bigger problem with the
gable the faux gable i think that's not
appropriate i think it's one it's on
toronto right uh and two i don't think
it's necessary because i think
the the the roof by itself and there's
plenty of examples of bexley with this
just to kind of single
um kind of almost like a shed roof style
it's obviously side it's got solid walls
but
um that almost goes across the entire
front face of the house
if you look at traditional column
details and how it meets roofs your your
what we'll call the next line up
from the top of that column
which we'll call a freeze board or the
beam as we discussed in the earlier
project
sticks way past the column and that's
typically not how we'd want to see that
we'd want to see that much closer
relationship so there's some
relationships here between the
the different elements of the roof that
need to be kind of tightened up and more
appropriate to what's happening again
plenty of examples in bexley to look at
uh that are done well and you'll know
they're done well because you look at
you're like oh that seems to work really
really well um
but i think overall the concept of i
think that
the front porch on this house works i
think you have just enough space above
the stone based on you know the low
slope is not i'm not a big fan of i'd
like to see that steeper but i do
appreciate that that there's actually
eight inch dimension between the top of
the roof and your windows which will
help keep leaks
out gives you enough room to flash and
do that so
um
overall i'm not against the approach to
it i just think the details aren't there
for us to truly review it
um so i appreciate you being here
tonight i know you're coming back so i
won't beat you up too hard but uh i
think really looking at some other
examples in bexley um
and i'm sure there's even some that you
could probably refer to to some to look
at uh that's going to be important for
us to see because the the this is the
type of a structure that goes on the
house can be done right or it's not
right it just doesn't work and we want
this to kind of fit the context of the
neighborhood so plenty of examples to
look at that really aren't a cost you
know prohibitive they're just standard
ways of kind of doing porch roofs uh and
there's proportions to deciding how far
that comes in or out over on the
extensive the building house
massing
the column relationships and how that
actually sits on
the concrete
slab for your porch all those are very
important details so yeah
that's all i have to say
mr allen
um well it was good that you were here
to
hear all of the comments about stone and
yeah all of that um
so i guess top down
um
anytime we can add porches
to bexley houses we're all in that's the
thing to do
we love what porches do to
create a in between space between the
public and the private and you've heard
all of that before uh and to get people
out and to make our community even more
sociable
that said
this is the front and the front deserves
all of the
quality and and embellishment that it
can get because it is the front the nose
of your house
so everything really goes down to how
this is trimmed out
and so
uh and you've heard all of the back and
forth so it so it looks strong it looks
like it's going to be there for a while
it's not spindly
it adds detail and character it doesn't
it doesn't look like something you know
was delivered much later in the house's
history which it's going to be
but there are ways of dealing with all
that now we're not here to design it uh
but it's going to have to do with the
with the massing
the the the the salinity of the of the
elements so that they have some width
and mass and gravitas to them and the
columns you've already moved to that
obviously these columns
in lieu of what's on the drawings would
represent a major step towards those
kinds of things so uh i would continue
to head this way i'm also of the opinion
that the gable uh is a detraction yeah
because i think it pulls attention away
from these uh the circular door
uh circular door is obviously the number
one feature you have with a little side
window um you know that's a beautiful
thing and it's
nothing needs to compete really with
that in my mind uh so um you know
it's worth the effort as you heard the
last time to uh take another look at it
and every time it gets better
so
your main concern in in the stone is
that are you having water damage right
now
so i like that that main cellar
right there it basically where the
the stone meets the
the concrete block
and then just in general when that when
the water hits at an angle it hits on
that stone so you're talking about like
yeah kind of right in there and then
there's is there a seller under that
there is a cell yeah and my neighbor has
one of those yeah it's doing it i mean i
i don't know why people put those in
back in the 30s or 40s or whenever they
were put in but cold cold they're cold
cold cellar that comes out so the issue
is not with the stone veneer
yeah it's it's trying to get that water
away from the even getting onto the
cellar right stone but you're not having
issues with the veneer otherwise like
it's pretty dry up above when you get up
higher yeah they're over in that corner
um there's a little bit and then right
because it just needs to be flashed
properly yeah so there's
there are other issues with covering the
stone
because it's not going to get the
sunlight anymore okay and what's going
to happen when you have
a cold snap or you have a warm snap we
have here in columbus like crazy in
bexley
you will start to see water and ice
formation
on the stone in the shade and it's not
going to go away quickly like it would
if it can breathe out
so one thing to watch for when you build
this is that
anything that's left in the shade for
the stone is going to hold retained
water and ice longer
so just want you to be aware of that
in terms of the design i think
the first thing my first reaction to
this facade is that the canopy really
should just be over the
front door and the window and you know
basically the area of your of your
little cellar
because i think that holds the
architecture better and that those
beautiful double window in the stone
would not be hidden underneath however
you want to unify it all you want to put
a full roof over the whole thing fine
i think it needs to be simple the gable
goes away
um and then the edges of this
roof which would in my mind be gable and
they would be triangular gable ends
not a hip roof okay
um because you're just you're just
creating another flash flashing line
that's more difficult to work within the
stone
and that needs to be held back so the
gutter for your porch needs to not
stick out and look like it can run past
on the side of the house but everything
needs to be tucked in so that the gutter
dies into the side of it into the front
of the house
now
when you're drawing this when whoever's
going to be drawing this to give us
architecture and not just structure
we need to see that
and we need to see the beam that's going
to be over the columns
and one of the first things you do when
you draw these is you you in plan you
draw the columns and then you make a
center line through that
and you take that center line of the
column and you go back to the house and
that's where your beam gets built
doesn't get built
out here it's not the width of the porch
yeah okay
and i don't know why i see this all the
time now in in the building industry but
people assume that the width of the
porch is the is the or the width of the
paving for your porch the concrete is
the width of the thing that's above and
that's traditionally never the case it's
always smaller
so you have to be
cognizant of that and i think whoever is
going to be drafting this
needs to be aware of that and we want to
see architecture right now we're not
seeing it except for the column that you
brought in yeah that's it
we need this we need to see real
architecture that means as mr scott
indicated
how the column works
at the base how the column works with
the beam system
how the gutters are really going to work
you're going to it's always helpful to
show flashing
so we can see how you're flashing this
even if it's a dashed line that goes
under the siding above
the other thing that's not shown even in
this revised elevation that you gave us
is these hardy board this hardy board
sort of shingle style
panels that you put up
they have to have a corner board yeah
that's going to change the whole look of
this house
okay i have a house that has the
aluminum siding that wraps okay has no
corner boards
it is a in my opinion it's a beautiful
look
and we're losing it in bexley because
people are using hardy board where you
have to have a corner board
so
um you know how you do that how wide it
is
it can't look
it it's got to look right and i think
you have to be very careful in detailing
that that particular condition because
it's going to again it's going to change
the whole look of the house and then
what does that die into
is there a new freeze board going up at
the roof line yeah i mean behind that
gutter yeah so what we don't want to see
is a detail there that looks like it was
an afterthought and unfortunately we see
you know we see a lot of that in
in our country now is just all these
details are just afterthoughts
we we want to see those details what is
the side of your gable of your main
house going to look like with this new
siding
[Music]
you're not just doing a porch here you
are you are really changing the
character of this house
so we want to see all those details the
steps coming out
you know you have a concrete
um
is it just concrete for the for the
porch floor or the porch floor yeah is
it going to be stained it's going to be
painted
it'll be painted stain it'll be a
like a portion floor now after it cures
you know and so what does the front of
this look like are we just looking at
ford concrete
what's under the slab with the four inch
concrete
porch so right now
you know it'll it would be mirroring the
current concrete
so you know because the seller stays
yeah the seller's gonna stay on it
there'll be a new um load bearing wall
to the right where that railing is right
to support the porch now your grade goes
down and if it's over 20 inches you need
a guard rail on your porch
so you need hand handrails going down
the steps
so
we're not we're not adding cement onto
that top of that it'll
same level stay same level to the left
one two you still have three risers up
by code you have to have a handrail
building department's going to see that
yeah which means
you should factor that into your design
now okay okay and
uh so
that's going to complicate things
because if it's more than 20 inches and
you have a guard rail it's going to
change half of your porch
after your porch is going to have a
guardrail the other half potentially
doesn't have to or do you just take it
all the way around
so there's a lot of work to be done here
to make this
architectural and to make it
work with the house and we do want to
see the siding and how you're treating
those details up there because
those are really important for what's
going to be a new look for this house
it's great to see this photo i
understand that the sightings dated
mine's dated
stone is beautiful it's now going to be
in the shade it's not going to be in the
sun
the downspout is going to move because
it can't be there anymore in the middle
of your facade which is probably a good
thing yeah
and then you've got these other details
so we're going to want to see a side
elevation of the house
it would be nice if we could see both
sides
which will include the gable returns
it'll include the new siding the corner
boards the new
the new porch the beam
and your guard rail i mean you're there
is already a guard rail there it's not
just on one side
so there's a lot of work to do here yeah
i think the downspout is a good point
because
with the new roof that downspout is
going to come down is it going to run
down the roof and into the new it's got
to go to the outside
and that's another reason why the porch
needs to be held in from the edge
and then that downstairs a little bit
pulling in is kind of uh downspouts also
connected it looks like to a street
drain
i would encourage you to
uh to drive up um
you claire okay
because you claire has a number of
porches historic porches that are
great examples of how to do a porch on a
house like this yeah
the way that they hold it in the way
that they detail the gable ends the way
they do the beams and the columns and
all the connection to the now there are
some examples even of historic porches
on euclid where it's just concrete
but you don't pay attention to that
because all the other details are so
beautiful okay and they landscape it
nicely yeah so i'm not concerned about
the concrete but your eyes are going to
be drawn to it if the other details
aren't done right yeah
yeah has this been helpful
yeah
yeah definitely the one big question
though would be just the width of the
like i mean we can we'll hold in the
pillar so when you look at it but i i
really like to get that stone so it's
so i don't have water you know basically
hitting the gutter and
basically protecting that stone
so it extends seven inches like the
gutter would be seven inches
to the right left
but the pillars are
inset i i can show you examples of why
of how it should be done
well here's the thing
if you have a gable end at each end you
don't need to have your gutter go around
to the to hit the wall
your water is only going to be running
out away from the house towards the
gutter at the front you don't need to
wrap it around to take it back and have
water condition there just a friend
you understand what he's saying just a
simple shed roof coming off and then
you'll have a cable and that's what's
not appropriate is if that simple shed
roof or gable end
roof extends past then yeah the house
and then that will
fly yeah
you're not going to have a gutter in in
the way i'm presenting this to you that
would return back to the house
that was an example of that
because on this design we would have one
because it's right which is correct
because it's returning because the hip's
causing it yeah and we're trying to
we're trying to help you here get the
water away from the house that was kind
of wide that was kind of why that was
what kind of why we did the gables
though on the side was to or the
yeah
on the side was to protect that the back
side of that stone so when the water hit
when water comes from the side
that stone is covered between the stone
and the hat and the house
i'm not following you just fill that in
the edge he's trying to build out the
roof to protect him with the top of the
stone he's kind of in the exposed area
of that stone
not
[Music]
a corner available that's behind it on
the side like that's like that image
right there is the side so the stone's
maybe four or five inches inside so it's
just something from
like that
between the stone yeah i would encourage
you to not be um obsessed with that
corner because once you put the new
hardy board on and you have real
flashing
above where the intersection of the
flashing meets the stone
you've you've handled the best location
for the water okay it's not about
the stone facade absorbing water anymore
okay it's about the flashing between the
hardy board and the stone which is one
level and that'll wrap the corner
and you've done what you need to do
otherwise the the strict
uh
shed roof is going to cover
almost all the stone except for what
we're saying is this stuff at the corner
and your stone is in good shape
so that that side picture is is on the
side of the house and so we weren't that
we're not we're not planning on harding
the whole
house at this stage but right i
understand but then you're gonna have
the walls so you're just putting party
on the front facade
at this stage yeah your stone is gonna
handle the water you know it's going to
handle the water underneath you're going
to have i think you're going to have
more issues with where it stays in the
shade than you are with this corner
i don't know how you just do hardy i
don't know how we do yeah i think i
would really need to see side elevations
of existing
more photos and then this hardy and how
it blends with the side because hardy's
not going to come in this scale unless
you're cutting down larger boards and
custom so i'm concerned that
this front facade is going to be totally
foreign to the rest of the house
i'm worried about that you may have
worse water problems if the two
materials don't maybe i just but i also
think it's i mean these you look at
these types of houses the sides i mean
the siding is continuous even if it's
vinyl with corner beads it doesn't
necessarily have just vinyl on the front
and a different horizontal siding on the
side
i'd rather see like a hearty panel on
the front something totally unique
different not that i think that's
appropriate but
at least you could tell me maybe on that
these are totally different and i'm not
trying to
replace it why are you replacing the
signings or problems with the existing
signing
it's uh it's yeah it's
it's smelling
this is this would be like phase one
phase two
stuff on the back okay um and then at
that point in time we do lap siding
on the sides
so it's kind of i think we'd like to
know that story and understand that
because i think that's gonna play a part
in how this goes forward
okay there's nothing wrong with aluminum
siding
this is uh
this isn't aluminum it's like a fiber oh
right that's right
yeah i don't know don't throw holes in
it
it's probably it's probably asbestos
mr hall yeah i do have a couple comments
so um you mentioned that you're putting
this canopy over your cellar to
hopefully sort of protect it and water
getting it so i will warn you um my old
house down in cincinnati i had the same
situation my cellar went all the way
across the front of my house and it was
all covered it still leaked
and where the water is getting in is
through little hairline cracks that you
probably haven't even noticed um i don't
know if on the underside it's the
concrete sprawling or anything on the
other side
a little bit a little bit yeah so that's
going to continue to get worse as water
gets down in there
truly the only way to uh
um to fix that is to put some sort of
waterproof topping on it like an epoxy
type paint um something that's got some
some girth to it
um and it's gonna be and you're gonna
have to go through and i'll find all
those hairline cracks and fill those
prior to putting that on
um i had that on my house and it was a
constant maintenance problem but it it
kept the water out at the same time
um
i think all the comments has been said
pulling the you know pulling the edges
in going to a shed there's no other hips
on this house so you know that's a
little bit foreign to the architecture
um that's um with the existing house
i think that's going to help quite a bit
and then removing the
the dormer that's on the front i think
it's going to help especially with your
column placement because it looks like
you know if you have a dormer coming
down then you want to anchor it with
columns and right now it looks like it's
just it just doesn't belong
so i concur with all the other comments
and i think you know you're
the
that downspout coming down the middle of
the house is going to have to be removed
but that's
you know you're going to get the gutter
is sloping to the downspout so that's
going to cause that gutter to have to be
re-sloped to go to the outside to bring
two more downspouts i guess down the
edges
and um and then if you're just replacing
the uh the front facade with the hardy
plank like we were all discussing i
think a comment went around where you're
gonna have to put trim board on the
edges and so i i get a little concerned
about that window it's on the right side
with the shutter and how how much how
that detail is actually going to going
to work out i think you've heard from
everybody it's all in the details and
that's that's what's going to make this
thing successful so
you got a lot of information to run so
i'm not going to add to it thank you
come back again mr holly make a good
point i think the column you've kind of
just the
engineer
has three columns equally spaced on the
facade where the round door is kind of
the gable kind of tries to
center that that door but i would look
at even thinking about those columns not
necessarily maybe maybe highlighting
more of the door entry and not
necessarily being perfectly equal across
the facade yeah it's going to be you're
going to study that a couple different
ways because the house really is about
there's no symmetry with the windows or
they're a little off-center and they're
different on both sides so that's going
to be that's going to be a tricky
resolution to get the look right and i
think the solution is is
um just just that the comment was just
said really focus on the door
and not try to align the columns with
anything
above or below
if you really wanted to have fun
instead of doing three columns you might
look at four because four might actually
get you to have that door centered
and you would also make the porch look
better supported which you'll see on
euclid and cassingham and other streets
over there where you know this whole
idea of three i mean
it's it's common you know and a lot of
times that one is off-center but if you
can get it to have four because you want
this porch to unify everything
see if you can get it to work where
those two
you know yeah you'll have three bays
instead of two bays you know what i mean
and those those intermediate columns
could actually work to to frame that
doorway yeah i think four could work and
that may help your railings
yeah i like stopping i like the idea of
four i think that's a good suggestion
okay you have a lot to write i still
haven't given up on the shed but
we'll bring some other drawings back
i have nothing else to add so um
would you like to come back next month
to the uh
april 14th meeting would you like to
table it or how would you like to
proceed you can table it to a date
certain yeah it'll be april 14th and if
you need another month we'll just send a
notice okay that sounds great okay
thanks
i need a motion
i moved to table this to the
would you say april 14th april 14th
second date certainly
okay thanks
mr heyer
yes mr hellman yes mr hall yes mr scott
yes miss tony yes
thank you
okay our last application is number
bezab 22-8 the address is 415 northview
the applicant is amy lauerhouse the
owner is brian and bridget marsh
the applicant is requesting a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for architectural review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a new home
karen do you have background i do
okay by way of um
a reminder
this is
whoops
sorry
half of the um
that was part of the demolition for for
mr um
sorry
i'm looking at you and like
um
yeah a couple days ago
and i am going to share the signing
sample with a few people after this so
don't leave
anyway
this is the the split of the lot and it
was purchased by um brian marsh and his
wife who most of you know are
he's on our zoning board
so this is a very unusual situation amy
is very fortunate to be the recipient of
this project where you can build a new
house in bexley and not have dads for a
demolition yeah um
i am really gonna hand this off to amy
to present her whole
um to present the case and to walk you
through her process and her philosophy
and what her clients want um the only
thing that i and i did include in the
staff report that i would suggest is
that um you know it would be unusual
anyway for a new bill to be
passed the first round through but i do
think it would be important for us to
see a little bit more of this new home
set in the landscape i know it's not a
typical bexley block and that there's
not as much you know regularity and
continuity but i think it would be nice
to have it
um maybe superimposed next to um
the other new house so we can kind of
see how i have that oh you do yep
great
so
why don't you go ahead and okay hold
things up as you need them okay great um
we swear
oh yes yeah yeah sorry
kathy's not here it threw me off
do you soundly affirm that the evidence
you're about to give shall be the truth
the whole truth and nothing that's true
yes i do thank you
um so yes it like
karen said it's kind of an exciting
proposition to build a new house on an
empty lot
um
we uh my client wanted a
depends on what architecture book you
look at a french eclectic revival rural
french
design the design is what they would
cons they architecture would consider an
asymmetrical towered subtype of the
french
style of architecture
it's a mixture of stone and stucco
i
the client did not need a um
full second story over the first story
so that gave me a lot of opportunity to
really break down the massing um and
create a lot of interest with different
roof heights and roof planes as well
this is a relatively narrow lot for an
r3 zoning
it's actually a non-conforming lot so
we decided that the best
course of action was to do a garage in
the front that's side loaded
um
the
we feel like that kind of feel fits in
with the neighborhood in size and scale
the house was really designed
to maintain those three trees in the
front
there are two large trees on the
property and then one street tree in the
right of way as well
so that's why we've
oriented the house the way that we have
um
we've had some made some initial
exterior materials selections as far as
specific items and i've included those
in the pr
in the
list of items as well
we also i wanted to tell you that my
client has
met with all the neighbors they actually
met
on tuesday night
and got a lot of good feedback positive
feedback the neighbors are supportive of
the house
the neighbor behind us the dealers
have some drainage issues so
we're kind of working together
they have a lot of standing water in
their backyard so
we obviously don't want to make that
problem worse and no none of us want a
soggy backyard so
gee lou and
myself and the dealers are kind of
working together to
create some drainage solutions
for the properties that
mitigate that problem
um i am open to your initial feedback
thank you
is there anyone that wants to go first
well sure
um
nice house
thank you
this is maybe goofy but um on the east
elevation
i always like to think i can read
drawings but i know i'm sometimes can't
uh on the east elevation oh that's
awesome
there is
a indentation roof across
that's between the two
the the garage and then something behind
the garage i'm just i'm curious what
that is which elevation
uh no the the east elevator so that's
the front no yeah the the part the the
the
there's some dormers out there right now
keep going the the line that the
horizontal line that's right behind the
roof peak there
um there's two dormers two doorworks
yeah
yeah that's that's
that's the side of the dormer
so you see the dormer that's on the
front of the garage piece
there's two door there's a dormer on
each side of the garage so that's
showing the side of the of the dormer
that probably shows up a lot better on
the
on the 3d rendering if we can get that
to show up in the proper
let's see
width to height ratio
[Laughter]
i don't know why that happens sometimes
okay well that that i'm just curious as
to because i couldn't make sense
[Music]
i have a printout if we can't get it to
the right
you probably need to do you probably
should do that if you haven't yeah
because it would require me to go into
our system so i will just pass this
around
there are no
measurements on at least the drawings
that i'm looking at so what is the
height of the sound so that is on this
the site
um drawing that we have it's it's kind
of
um no the full neighborhood site
hold on i know there's a lot there yeah
yep um so at the very bottom it's kind
of small i don't know how much you can
zoom up there but um our our house is
actually
small the the ridge height which is 31.9
is actually lower than the houses to
both sides
so that that kind of gives you a good
perspective of the neighborhood there
okay
uh you know the only other
issues that would not just necessarily
issues but as we move further you know
what what the actual detail yeah in
terms of the materials and colors and so
forth all these little you know black
and white drawings to get us only so far
yes
um well the the 3d rendering will
definitely help with that
however that would be my
intent is that
next month
when i come back i i hope for final
approval that um
i have a full materials board that calls
all those out specifically and then at
that time talk about roofing and all
that
and and some of that i already know um
the roofing that we're using is a
dimensional shingle and it is um
the the
the color that is portrayed on that
rendering is the color that the renderer
got from the website so that that
specific one is is pretty accurate
um i've talked with the clients just in
the last week or so
about
we think we're going to go with a little
bit darker windows
and a little bit lighter stucco
than the rendering shows so i will bring
updates um for that next month as well
okay thank you
who would like to go next
thank you
i i don't have much to say i think it's
a beautiful house um and i think it's
gonna come down to the materialism of it
and everything in the end and how the
you know different colors are selected
um
you know i think that
you know it's it's all about user
preference um
but maybe the front porch could be a
little larger but that's not what we're
here for i'm just throwing that out
a
but again i think it's it's
the massing on it is is very nice
and kind of anxious to see how the
materials are going to come to play with
uh amy
why did you
or what is the precedent that you used
for a garage first to the street
um
that was in their in my clients program
and i think if uh karen if you go to the
um
photo inspiration photos
of some of the photos um that we talked
about with my client
the one on the top left
is a similar kind of
layout
to what i've proposed
where is this one on the upper left i
have no idea it's not in bexley no oh i
see no
no i mean there are quite a few houses
in bexley that have the side load garage
in the front there's one on drexel
there's one on parkview yeah they're
yeah those lots are
you know they're to me they're different
and
i i really have a i mean i'm going to be
the bad guy i really have a problem with
this garage being towards the street
because there's nothing
it's something that we try to avoid in
bexley with new design we want the
facade to be front and center
um we're expressing
you know our community and our
involvement in that community by saying
that we the people we the people of
bexley are this community not our cars
so i really have a problem with the
garage being front loaded like that now
i know you have a skinny lot
if if if i um
[Music]
had
my you know if if if i could make a
recommendation it would be that if the
garage has to be to the front then it
shouldn't look like a garage
it should be something that looks more
like the rest of the house and you may
say that's what you're trying to do but
i'm not seeing it i'm seeing a garage
and the court in front just highlights
that even more is there a way that you
know i'm just
i i just have a i have a lot of i have a
big problem with with the garage being
front and center uh some of the houses
on fair and bexley park that are this
sort of french
country look with the turret
the garage is in the back you know or
it's on the side and that turret is the
thing you want to read i don't want to
read it just from standing in front of
it i want to see that when i'm coming
down the street
i want to see all those beautiful
facades and i want to see that turret
there the tower
but you're not going to see it
you're going to see this garage in this
court so i mean i i don't like the
layout of this particular design
i
don't know really how to answer that
because it was
literally the first thing that we talked
about in our programming meeting um you
know this is their dream home they want
an attached garage um it's a very narrow
lot um for an r3 so i've got big big
side yard setbacks um and the the the
average existing front yard setback is
also fairly deep so
you know as far as the buildable area of
the lot we just don't have a lot to work
with i understand so if can you is there
any way to get a garage
in the back
well the problem with it being attached
in the back is that it
really
obliterates the connection to the
backyard from the living spaces
and that that's you know they're
proposing a really nice covered porch
back there they're going to have an
outdoor patio they they do a lot of
outdoor living and outdoor entertaining
and that's really going to be their
focus
you can see here in this picture
they really want to make that something
special and you know if a garage covers
two-thirds of that it you have no
no access to the backyard
yeah i i know the the one on drexel you
know that we
we approved the second wings yes to help
balance out what we knew was a garage
yeah so now that is kind of it's
balanced better and i think we were
really excited about that project
because of that
but now we're
we're seeing a project where
we're back to the one garage that's
front and center on
on the on the street
i guess i feel
my personal opinion is that the tower of
the turret is such a strong element that
and what i've done is you know that
whole thing is stone versus having just
a stone base on the garage that in it
and the roof's going to be metal
on the
um
on the turret so that it really
draws your eye to the turret
and i've and you know i've done some
things um that i think
make the garage not as big of a
um
you know this angle i think makes the
garage look more prominent than it
actually will if you're walking down the
sidewalk
i wanted to show as much of the massing
as i could on this for this angle but
you know doing things like collector
leader heads on the the downspouts and
you know shutters and having that piece
much lower than the rest of the house
i feel like it works well with the
overall massing
is that it
yeah i mean my other comments would be
to encourage you
to um really
do some really nice refined details
and that we see those blown up i mean
most of the projects we see
from amy are
you know their their
additions to smaller houses their you
know extensions their you know all these
things and we kind of know where you're
going and matching the details of
existing but now it's a new build right
and so what do those details really look
like right um and that's
instead of just referring you back to
miss bokor you know this is one where
we're going to want to see all those
details right and that that's my
intention for
you know i kind of just assumed this
would be an initial feedback and that
i'd come back uh next month with more
more details yeah i mean to be honest i
just really have a hard time with this
layout um what it says is what most
bexley houses do not say and that is
that we're more interested in our
backyard and what happens back there in
our privacy than we care about you know
engaging with the community with our
house facade
and that's always going to say that to
me and i i have trouble trying you know
voting for that
to be honest okay
who would like to go next
i've been but i'll i'll i'll add um
i'm probably a little ambivalent about
the garage and the front but i would say
uh that if if
it is to be incorporated into the idea
uh i would get the auto out of the auto
court uh make that
auto court non-auto but to to to make it
an extension of the garage and maybe
done in a different pavement a different
kind of manner so it becomes a very
special
part of the entry
uh as a court
and not as obviously just a so that
would say something about its geometry
and extension of the lines and would
also see something about the formality
or lack thereof of the landscape plan
that would reinforce that
mr scott
hi hi
um
you know i i would agree with mr heyer's
assessment that bexley's not about front
garage this is a very
dublin
new development type of a
style of house where you you have a
you know a design element turret uh
garages are in the front and it's a very
popular style uh it's not a bexley style
right but i think you have a
hard i think looking at your site plan
there's a hardship of
um a little hardship of having a garage
in the back and the impact of that and
that
as all kind of older houses that have
larger garages they've been added chop
up the backyard so
i i'm not
a die hard on that but i i think you
know we we always want to make sure
we're exploring all those options so uh
that's the conversation i want to
continue to have
looking and asked karen to leave this up
i think the
i actually like the garage details so
great i don't have any i mean i think
you're on the right track there i think
the
the thing that jumps out to me is the
one the turret
the eve of the turret is the same size
as the map
you have a competition of a hierarchy on
the massing here and i'm curious why you
left the eve at the turret at the same
height as the rest of the house you know
it's funny you asked that because going
through the design process i actually
originally had it higher
and lower but i thought it was a little
too squatty lower and a little bit too
skinny higher so i i left it at the same
size as the at the same height as the
the one piece that has the second
i would be interested in seeing the
subtle difference because right now
they're equal and that they're not equal
masses uh and i think the
the
even the roofing material on the turret
i mean you you've added this metal
siding on the porch but
in this rendering they look the main
roofs look the same yes that doesn't
make any sense to me that the turret
really wants to stand out and he made it
all stone yeah but then that has the
same roof
it's that was my fault i i just realized
that today that the turret will have a
have a metal roof yes it just wasn't
rendered properly so that was mine and
then i questioned the stone porch um
it seems to come compete with the stone
tower
the rest of the house has a majority of
water table of stone but not everywhere
so it starts and stops on certain
aspects which is interesting
um but i feel like maybe this the porch
would have maybe stone piers and then a
little bit more elegant a little bit
more open
i feel like the porch is
being sent back and again goes towards
mr hyer's comments about this being you
know
front porch neighborhood um
being set back really disconnects that
so finding ways to reconnect that would
be to maybe open that up a little bit
more or even looking at maybe how that
might wrap the corner
to help
to i don't know if there's any um
precedent for that in the style of
architecture but
i think it feels mr hall had commented
about the front porch being a little
small looking at it and playing it does
feel small
but
i think it it competes again with the
the tower and i think it wants to be
secondary to this tower okay and i also
think the entry you have this the entry
to the towers i think in planets at 45
yes
it just doesn't feel right right at
least in this rendering it feels like
it's
you're you're looking too far down the
street and not relating to
the drive okay we have this drive that's
where it's gonna end up being maybe
but then the front door doesn't even
address that it's looking to the side
and i think there's you need to find a
way to to bring that back more to the
street
um
and then i had one question on and it
might be uh just working out the details
on the south elevation
sorry i told you
okay which one do you want south the
last one
right there at the
transition from the
the three main masses there on
the little window
that one so the roofs there seem
something's going on
i'm looking at this and i say okay if i
eliminate the left roof i have a main
massing two story a shed roof
because that pops out and then you have
this
roof that looks like it's probably even
more in front to us
yeah it's it's actually not but it's
higher so it just wraps around a tiny
bit yeah there and i think that the
front frontal see it on the front well
you see that i think you show it as a
kind of do i show
and it doesn't seem it just doesn't seem
to matter okay i'll check that and i
think i'm interested to see how those
are coming together but it's
just more of a i'm trying to picture how
that really is happening and i think
it's just not being represented
correctly okay
master
i am curious it looks like all of your
your garage has this stone water table
but then all of your little bays and
shed roof
massings do but not the rest of the
houses yes is that the motif you're yeah
just again trying to kind of break
things up and and create a little bit
more variety
kind of having those little bay pieces
that stick out as special elements with
the stone and the metal roof
i think
i don't know if i'm i'm sold on that as
it can make an everyday window you're
going to do a
stone water table maybe the bay window
has a little bit different
material or is articulated differently
okay um as an option but i think it
doesn't have to always be
okay i have a projection coming off the
building i'm gonna put a water stone
water table on it i
i'm okay with that but i don't know if i
buy that that's that's strong okay
there's other ways you can do that but
overall i think the the massing and the
detailing um i'm interested to see how
that continues but i think it's oh the
railing is better
yes yes the metal yeah yeah that helps
right and then maybe that's maybe the
eavesdoodle line but i i i still feel
like it's it's a special piece it
doesn't want to necessarily just be
lined up with the other ease right uh
and i think the columns in the back of
the house
seem to be more
you know kind of a simplified box
base and top and i'm not sure that fits
the style so i'm looking a little bit
more um
precedent columns to this architecture
and of course i'm very interested in how
this
what i'm hoping is a very decorative
railing on the
porch in the back is going to shake down
yes i think you're representing in here
but yeah i think that's very important
what that is
so
i struggle with the garage in the front
and it i think if you model it and you
think about as you drive down the street
you literally have to get around the
house before you see the tourette
i think that the garage is so dominant
and
[Music]
that i i really struggle with it
being in the front like that and
and i just don't feel like it's special
enough that it
that it you know
that it's that that's really a great
design
um i too have struggled with the turret
uh it actually looks better in
perspective but
all the images i can look up on the
internet of a great turret they're all
taller
than the uh elements around them so i
think
and i love the idea of the turret um
but i i live in a house with a turret
and it is not a good design
and it drives me crazy i literally have
to drive around my house to get to the
to see the tour it's
this house to me looks like it should be
sitting almost angled on the
on the lot so that it all kind of faces
the front because i again i feel like
it's the entry kind of faces the side
you have to come around to the side
to enter so i agree that the porch is um
kind of fighting with the turret
so um
okay
can i can i make a suggestion sure
always so i i worked on a a french
style house
in chicago right next to the roby house
and we did a lot of interior restoration
and i just looked it up again because i
wanted to
remember the turret because it has a
turret in the front and i can send miss
poker some images of this house okay
great but the thing that the turret does
traditionally in these chateau you know
french style
is it's a joint
and it's usually a joint between either
two equal wings
or two wings that are you know in that
style they can be slightly different but
they're fairly equal
and what you've done is created a turret
that only has
it's not really a joint it's it's kind
of just there in plan it kind of works
but the thing that i'm noticing about
these french you know country style with
the turret is
that joint is linking you
between the two wings and sometimes
three you know depending on how big the
house is this one i'm referring to only
has two
but what that would do even if your
garage stayed where it is
is that you could
you know the possibility of extending
the house to create a real facade to the
street
you know within with a story above okay
and then the turret all of a sudden it
becomes a real joint and now you have it
sort of acting as a joint between two
wings
so i'm throwing that out there because i
think
in the way i've you know i would be more
comfortable
with this design and the garage being
where it is if that facade
even though there's a garage underneath
on the first floor if that facade was
truly a street facade that read as a
residence okay and you know we've had
projects come to us before like this you
know john b hall has presented us with
some designs where it clearly acts like
a house facade and not as a garage okay
i'll send you some images karen yeah
they had a modern one recently too and
actually looked at it
yeah kathy reminded me
and i think then the only other thing i
had as as you went around the house um
some of the windows i think
look odd to me like this this uh facade
looks great but if you could scroll to
some of the other ones i i don't totally
understand that window going across the
top like this one to me that it doesn't
feel like it fits with the architecture
so yeah we're trying to maximize
obviously maximize light coming into
that space
yeah
but i to me it doesn't relate i don't
really understand
that the two you know arched and then
that's higher i don't know it somehow
feels odd to me i don't know if it just
needs to be lower or what but it feels
odd to me and the same on the other side
where you've got it
okay i can look at some other options
there there was one more
elevation that showed another window
that did that so yeah it's on the other
side as well yeah but i will say you
know the
image that you show for inspiration
i mean
it's a new build and all that but you
the things that you're drawn to are the
quality of the materials of that that
roof is amazing they're the way they cap
the turret and
cap the other peaks with you know copper
um
all that stone and stuff and that's
really kind of what you're drawn to in
that image right
the beautiful materials so
um
that's what you're going for i'm not
sure you're there okay
i would i would also sorry uh it's okay
you know on the turret roof
um i would
actually shy away from the metal
because to do a standing seam
that's not only on the tour you know on
the circumference to a point right but
also to have your swept eve i don't know
how you do that honestly i just looked
at putting metal on my on my whole house
and
trying to figure out the turret
all these lines yeah i mean you have to
end up
liking something really fussy yeah and i
ended up saying i i couldn't do it
because just way too many lines between
the standing seam and then
all the
yeah yours is a curve mine is like sided
so it's a little bit different but once
i started drawing it i was like oh my
goodness that's a lot well and i think
you know from your feedback i think
there's other ways that we can make that
tour it be stand out more than it does
yeah this one's really cool your sample
because it has and it has all the roof
is all the same everywhere
yeah
yeah it's being hierarchical
right
but to your point about you know dublin
or you know muirfield or wherever it is
i love the materials on that house but
when i look at that i i think dublin i
think near field estates i don't think
do you really
i
i mean this is something that um there's
a couple of firms here in columbus that
specialize in doing this stuff tartan
fields you'll see stuff like this in
tartan it's not backslate i mean the
materials are but the layout is not and
it's completely evident just looking at
it it's because the garage is in the
trunk right so that's
very yeah
but i agree i mean i think one of the
things that's interesting about that
image is just the way the windows go up
with the stairs that are inside of it
your torque now that i look at it is
it does seem a little large to me
and maybe studying shrinking that and
don't enter through that you enter on
the side of it and that's traditionally
i was looking at some pictures
traditionally that's how you do it and
it just it holds the stair more than it
holds the entry and everything yeah but
there are examples on bexley park and
and uh you know in yeah in
the east central area that do have a
fairly thick tower that's short
so
i mean i could see it and the other
thing that's nice thing about it is the
stair works much better when you have a
bigger
radius
pretty nice yeah
yeah i mean i would that this is a
an interesting discussion all around
because it's a 70-foot law right
and if you were in here with a
center hall two-story box with a
detached garage in the back um
different conversation um
but then
is there some allowance to do some
larger
more exciting houses
on what few lots we have where we don't
have to do a demo
um i don't know and there's a grandness
about the house i i can clearly
understand an owner's desire
terms of what the backyard is all about
um i i struggle with cars i mean cars
you know we've we fought for the um
the circular driveways
everybody in the world wanted a circular
driveway and of course the the concern
was and we finally got some control over
it uh but the concern was exactly what
happened everybody parks in their
circular driveway so the cars are now
violating the front yard right the
bexley zoning code says you're not
supposed to park in front of your house
well just about every bexley resident is
in violation of the bexley's owning code
because everyone's got three cars or
their kids have two cars and on the
streets and the streets are narrow i
mean it's it is a
cars are a tough damn issue in this town
well and i i
on the rendering it shows we've we want
to do some brick piers um or stone i'm
sorry stone piers on either side of the
driveway
and
we haven't kind of fully
fleshed all that out yet but you know i
think going back to your comment of
making the auto court something special
and um you know maybe the the peers move
back and there's some sort of a hedge or
something there so
we kind of start to i guess diminish the
appearance of the auto court well i
think bill's uh idea is interesting to
at least explore uh which is to raise
the verticality because right right now
by all
even though it carries the style of the
house by its dimensions and its box
uh it says garage i mean i understand
that so is there a way that that can be
solved uh by making it
incorporate having the house swallow
that part of the garage
and uh uh because you know i also looked
at this you mean by making the garage
taller yeah
that that's in your inspiration okay
yeah well the roofs are so much steeper
in that well it's already uh you've
already got a room in there yes uh so
it'd just be interesting to see what
that would be
for that second story okay
and uh because i i was also just kind of
toying in my mind uh what happened i
mean this design is gone obviously if a
driveway has to go back to the back and
you have to figure out how to do a
garage someplace i mean this whole thing
is gone um
and so that would be a start over
um
and i don't know that's a that's that's
a
that'd be a big move yeah
no i i appreciate all the feedback and i
you know i'd like to
i know my client that's like i said kind
of one of their main goals so i'd like
to see what what i can accomplish with
some of the with all of your feedback
and and come back next month and
see where we are
at least we're not fighting demolition
yes i know
so you want a table until next month yes
please april 14th
someone make a motion for that please
so move
i'll second
yes mr hellman yes mr help yes mr scott
yes
chairman johnny yes thank you we'll see
you next month alrighty
i believe we are adjourned
i believe we had not one it wasn't
tables
i know
we made no decision
i don't have to write any record
reactions everybody was happy
unlike previous