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at 6 45
march
something 23rd
invites in the mail
no no no
after i think thursday
oh no
do i did i just get asked if i if i
counted
mr hale now we have ten we've really got
all right
party
okay uh let's do
roll call mayor do you want to start
over
there ben kessler present
todd freedman
matt mcphee matt klindler should be
madison sarah
nate green jen robinson future hair
all right thanks everybody for coming
uh ben i don't think we're gonna approve
those minutes are we
they are actually finished elizabeth
there were a couple blanks that got
filled in um
um
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anybody have any changes to the to the
minute
the uh election of officers occurred
before executive session and not after
adjournment so that needs to be
corrected
you nominated somebody else besides the
chair though
heidi said as much as i enjoyed
oh hey
as much as she enjoyed being the chair
for that meeting she does not want to be
the chair going forward is that what she
said she did a great job
oh yes i i've surrendered those things
all right well with that uh
so moved ben kessler
second sorry and that order will be
fixed just as a typo this type of
graphical
uh
second by mr madison
hi
all right well let's move into the
budget discussion
hey you
so uh you all had a good discussion last
at the last minute about this
we have heidi and i talked with
the gilberger team
last week i think
about this we have updated numbers
um
and how do you can go into more detail
on this but just kind of an overview we
uh we added we had them update a lot of
these numbers
we went back we were on the call and
went through our 2021 budget which uh
put together and you know newmarket had
managed the facility for
seven years six years
but so anyway so they so we went back
and compared and we had them update a
lot of these numbers based on what we
had in the 21 budget and
what we had spent part of the challenge
that we had had in the budget you all
saw this last time
was that we had
gilbert start essentially in the middle
of the year
and they had not transferred over so
the numbers now are
more accurate um we have more accurate
and inclusive yes
we do have a couple things and it's on
the bottom we actually uh i think one
thing that was missing in feature we
added this
uh is that we owe the we paid the city
ten thousand dollars um every month
under twenty thousand dollars a year
that's a payment back for the money that
the city gives us for me at mayfield
um i can highlight a few things
so
it was both the first year we're doing
the budget with gilbert and they
classified a few things a little bit
differently than newmark so there's you
know
they have a quarter service newmark had
everything in maintenance so we've
tinkered with the numbers a little bit
to just kind of make sure they're all in
the right categories but
you'll see that
hello
um we've now built in you know several
of our
um
and with features help you know the
insurance reimbursement back to the city
we have our trash can nailed down with
the city we've built in the deck the
debt expense back to the city
um
we've uh classified the 250 roof repair
here just as an expense so if you flip
it over to the other side that's why we
kind of have the negative cash flow is
because of that capital expense
but
that's something that nate and i have
kind of talked through we have you know
a large cash reserve at first financial
we have quite a bit left on our we have
about
550 on our line of credit so we're going
to kind of think through the best way to
you know through a combination of maybe
selling credit or through cash so we
still have a push-up the right way to
cover that um
it's cam reimbursable as well right
it is so um gilbert said that they
typically for a roof would advertise it
over 10 years
they're running some of the numbers so
we can get an idea of what that actually
looks like based on the
estimates that are coming in for the
repair
so the variances are
i mean i can't i almost can't even
understand this because
they have no information
this is well and so the
the annual budgets are really what you
look at the other the other numbers that
are on there i think are the problem was
they're not they still haven't fully
adjusted
that
so so we're supposed to look at the
annual versus the budget
just the year-to-date budget
year-to-date budget because we don't
have last year's full year so this is
every other column and this is useless
that's right
well
wait wait wait wait well and the page
today so we have our actual first column
the pay to date are the dollars that
have actually gone out the door as of
today march first or you know whenever
this was um
so you know we've paid our property
taxes for this
for this um cycle we've had those
expenses the last column is our what
we're asking is the budget going you
know for the full year for full calendar
year 22. yeah that's what that's the
most important
item right
i don't know whether that's good or
different well so but those numbers
found on the annual numbers
what we did is we went and we had them
adjust those numbers based on what our
2021 budget was and what was actually
spent in 2012 so those are that's where
heidi and i spent a lot of time last
week with them
the paid today and the year you know
those are
the annual those are the numbers style
that we're going to look at
because those are the actual numbers of
what people have
but we don't have a 2021 full year
reconciliation accident
so
to continue with that
description
the only difference then would
be
we didn't have a 250 000
repair i mean like if one were to look
at
the operating income of 2021
would essentially be
um
the the bottom line here
of minus 94 plus 250.
so does that suggest we had a profit of
150
in 2020. that's typically what our
profit is that's right around what it is
the expenses aren't
exactly what they were for 21.
roughly
okay okay
we have a higher management fee now with
silver we have you know different you
know different expenses that came in and
we're doing a better job of
tracking our expenses back to the city
so it's not
it's not exactly it's not exact plus
your money has 20 thousand pounds okay
and a lot of that some of the there's
variances there too with what was paid
in 21 what was our budget for 24
so yeah
it is it is probably 12 our budget has
tended to overstate our expenses
so when we go and reconcile with tenants
which is really big
it's going to be a nightmare right
because we don't have we don't need to
pull 21. we we do have uh
lydia has transferred in her
um
accounts from that period and gilbert
sent us last week their
reconciliation
i want to go through it pretty we said
we wanted to go through it pretty
carefully to make sure that it
reconciles with what the 21 budget is
what we're seeing for just to kind of
have another eye on it because it is a
little
um
you know
jumbled or not jumbled it's just two
different property managers making sure
that everything is accounted for in both
the january through may period and june
through december period correct so you
guys are going to go over it before we
send it out too
i'm sorry along those lines
you say
the room prepares to be advertised over
10 years
that's what gilbert said they typically
do is ten years they're sending us a
couple um
scenarios so we can take a look at what
that actually means for our tenants
is that typical i mean
your guys experiences
but again we look at it just like heidi
said we look at it to see what the
damage is going to be
originally because we even talked about
five and
we
it just you know it's too much does it
accrue to new tenants as well
okay so
so i mean as a if there's turnover that
new tenant it would be built into their
cam as well it'll be part of our cam
it'll be part of your cam reimbursement
so do we care that it's
you know spread nominally
over 10 years it's probably worth like
30 years you start you start with what
the irs says it is okay and then you
back that out
based on what you think your tenants can
handle yeah
but
it's basically nominal
that's right nominal it's not not
necessarily
it's going to be a big number
so it accumulates interest it's what it
means but we can switch soon
my point is that our nominal loss
let me just explain are we taking 250
and spreading it over 10 years
oh
we're not putting on an interest factor
right no but i'm saying it's like in
it's like
we're financing half of it
since the present value of this thing is
like half yes
that's generally the way it works
yeah
i thought so you can't charge interest
on it
which is not you you'd have to look at
me
yeah but i i i
i don't know
especially
the you know capital expenditures can be
part of cam but it's over like a useful
life and so we're trying to see where it
is there's no way there's generally no
interest factor yeah can we specify it
gets paid back in bitcoin
but you see it's a big
for sure
the nominal amount of the real amount
no yeah i mean it's like one year
profit on this property could be
right i mean or the interest of that
time sure
easy i mean especially with inflation
right
but i don't think we have i think that's
our the issues that we'll have with our
leases to be able to turn some
it's not in there and i don't i mean
cam is
a reimbursement for the landlord any
it's not necessarily looked at in the
same desk at least i don't think it is
it's you know
but it's a good point
it's like we're spending an additional
80 000 or or 100 000 for this in las
vegas
because we need to we need to borrow
this amount right or
well this opportunity cost yeah yes
so can we shorter the period it depends
on if you can handle the tenants i think
that that's the challenge of whether the
tenants can handle it but like the
brassica they did that's a it's a big
cost over five years it's a big month
it's like two dollars a foot yeah it's a
lot of money
and i think you know part of it is yeah
you're right you know we're we're losing
that interest cost right but we also
want to make sure that we're not just
settling the tenants no i i understand
i'm saying the the the amount of
opportunity cost is about a year's worth
of profit here sure on this property but
also
the market cap rates like they reflect
that sort of risk i mean that's that's
just that's a market norm right i think
it's a capital expenditure so it's going
to be you know it's going to the value
of the asset so it's you know the
capital is treated a little bit
differently
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the point is do you lose do you lose the
pilates studio if you add four dollars a
foot because yeah no yeah yeah maybe
that you know
it's a business decision there we lose
the blind studio the vip nails you won't
be able to pay it back over that time i
mean those brassica and the urgent care
maybe maybe
right but the other tenants that's
harder their small businesses
so
how many tenants are there
there are five pounds
and they're and they're paying for them
you're also making a tenant who might
not be there for a long period of time
pay for 20-year asset you know i mean
there's yeah i mean it actually has a
life of 25 years we'll just
advertise
todd can you
can you negotiate
a different deal with each tenant
it doesn't have to be across the board
no we i mean you should see our stacks
of cam reimbursables based on the tenant
i mean we probably have seven or eight
for
each each uh shopping center
because it's somebody with some people
or cats some people are not cat some
people will pay a capital expense some
people won't i mean if there's
okay but assuming assuming since we did
use new leases on almost everybody
assuming everybody has similar language
we can still negotiate
separate uh deals with probably
this but are there they're currently
paying certain cam charges are they for
significant capital are they for capital
improvements
i mean they're for you know they're for
those items that are out there right
okay so maintenance repair hvac would be
one that's a capital item but oh i'm
sorry no it's not because that's
typically what it is to them but all
those other things so it's like asphalt
repair your asphalt replacement would be
a capital
but generally unless you're replacing
hvac unit generally it's not accountable
i guess i'm trying to think of this as
like
we have we had any other significant
significant extent one time expenditures
like this the part is this truly
incremental to what is ordinary course
camp maybe it's the way i'm trying to
look at it that is true it is this would
be it's over above
increase there's no other like
significant capital improvements that
have been made where we've done camp
everything
[Music]
if
hypothetically for a parking lot cam
charge
and
essentially restructuring
that legacy cam plus this to a
collective amount
that is less painful
i don't know
[Music]
yeah so you can you can reduce the rent
and increase their cam that would that's
one way to help the tenant
um
but you're not helping yeah and i'm
sorry i'm just i was just trying to
understand how much money did we charge
that camp for the parking lot repair and
that's been a while i don't know
and i think it's paid off right now
well i mean through cam oh it was a 2014
or 15 project yeah we probably we're
five years
you know
three or four years
okay all right so that okay there's no
there's no
there's no other there's no other
capital calls like that that they're
currently all right right this would be
something
so matt right
right now their their total
reimbursement is 104
so it would go to 129 or whatever so
it's a
23 percent increase or whatever
it can be that's over 10 years but it's
also something that they you know it's
in the least that we could that's
something that we can
you know get back to the game church
it's
you know we're trying to shorten it or
extend it whatever the case may be that
we're still in a pandemic and you still
might be having some tenants that
um
once in a while may be struggling to
to make their rent or being mindful of
that and being sensitive
i think i'm good we
i agree but we actually um there's only
one tenant that we have that issue with
and it's not even that they struggle
it's just that their payments come in
different numbers
plus this wouldn't go into effect this
year
from what even even
well and i think the way that we left
the roof conversation
not to bleed over into that conversation
was that
market pricing is so volatile right now
that i think we're gonna
we're going to figure out if we're going
to lock it in probably even wait
right now we decided if other do the rfp
we would do a trigger right so if a
roofer would is willing to say hey i
guarantee this price and i've got the
material in my back warehouse we'll go
with them if they can't guarantee it
then we're going to wait for a
volatility day
is that what we left today
i i have another question so the these
these camps
this year's camps are going to be
charged the following year
the total is 386
minus 250 because 250 is going to be
next year say so it's 1
35 136 but at the top we see only
one of four
yeah and the real estate tax is is that
part of it yeah well the 47
real estate taxes is the same thing so
it's we don't have a roof
no no i know but but after there's a 32
000 bug
even
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yeah
you see what i'm saying so the total
cam charges is 47.
and if you take the
386 minus 250 minus the 55.
yup so that would be hvac non-cam it
would cam
right is going to be
80 000 and there we have it at the top
47 do you see what i'm saying or not
mm-hmm i'm sure plus isn't isn't it in
arrears though isn't that last year's
camp this is what i'm asking but still
it's it's like double so it's right so i
think what happens is now it's 2036 we
estimate the 2021 cam they pay the
estimate and then in january february
march of 2022 they reconcile that they
bring you either they give a credit or a
debit right but this is double right so
that should flush out
let me just just make sure that we're
yeah
so
i look at these numbers here this is i'm
looking at this number 386 minus 250
minus 55.
that's um
about 8081.
you see what i'm thinking is 81 to
correspond to this 47.
right because the real estate taxes is i
knocked it down here and here the 250 is
going for next year or 136 which is the
three to six not the 250 should
correspond to 104. yeah so that
those are budgeted expenses and we have
not historically hit those so when they
reconcile the cam
they're charging
well 136 versus 104 is
that's i think that's what then first
off there's something right but it's all
these everything is here it's on the
real estate taxes it's the
other stuff is going to be instead of 47
it's going to be 88.92
47 30 53 80. i mean after you remove
these three estate taxes actually that
number should be
i think what happened that number should
it should be double because that might
only be six months worth of
the estimated cam charges and the
says budgeted
i know but the but remember we first saw
it the problem was even those numbers
were only happening so 83 versus 47 is
not dissimilar to the delta between what
we've actually ended up paying versus
what we budget that's what i think needs
to be figured out yeah and that's the
problem with not having last year's
numbers on here is we can't really have
an educated conversation about it
and there are some non-cap expenses
under direct expenses right the
challenge we have too though is we need
to
we need to pass a budget because we need
to
get that to our tenants well why don't
we just approve the direct expense
budget portion of it and to hold off on
full approval until we have the
prior year sure
is our property manager approved the
direct expenses
okay let's do that
i think it makes sense
we have a motion to approve the direct
expenses and part of the budget
first by time the second
second by match
we leaving bexley center or we no we
could we could sit
maybe this is no business but you
remember when we did the line of credit
we said that we were going to hold the
line of credit until we're in a rising
interest rate environment but we're in a
rising rate
right so
you know i don't know what cmbs is out
there right now um or what those spreads
are
i'm throwing up my hand this is the time
okay
what is our
current rate it floats
yeah it's floating right now i mean it's
low it's like two seven five
but it's gonna adjust
what's it working to convert i'm looking
at it taking it from a
floating line of credit to fix enough a
permanent fixed fund because that's
10-year
10-year cmbs not a re-course
you know yeah
it was used to require 420 cassidy
the rates are going to the the rents are
probably going to increase if there is
high inflation
what we can what we can lock in with you
know what the direction i'm sure they're
allowed to do
i mean you may have to go out to like a
nationwide insurance or okay somebody
like for what
it's insurance and we're paying the
i mean
we're paying a premium they're not
you know
the bank is not
stupid right i mean the bank is going to
charge us there yeah i think what we
need to look at is just to say what's
the what is it what if we were to do a
fixed rate and we were to lock that in
today let's just say we can lock it in
at a low rate it's three and a half
percent for ten years right
that may be better than paying a
variable rate that's gonna you know
could rise right
could go down the other thing
where it's an interest only that's all
of the payments we're making so
that's what we have to weigh is is you
know how much are we spending today
how much it would be spending if we did
fix it
and what does that look like so i think
it's a fair question because we talked
about it we did the line of credit so i
think we just need to do a little
homework and talk to
we'll see we'll see if we can get like
ohio state why would they not
i don't know if they're allowed they may
not have the capital to do that
it's like a 20 percent ltv though i mean
i'm with you at the most
absolutely just ask the question but
whatever but i think we can talk to uh
we can talk to some banks we have our
our personal person our checking account
[Music]
so i think it's you know it's it's we'll
just have to we'll bring it back to the
board
let me know if you want to shop yeah
okay let's do
all that
um
anything else about texas whatever we're
talking about that one we
did they get apple's apples
last time
so we had a discussion uh with uh
the with gilbert and they have a
consultant roof consultant that we
talked to
uh they sent out um
an rfp for it to basically do the entire
tear off right
and we should have those back at the end
of the month
um so i'm thinking by our next meeting
we'll have that
and that's the one that's kind of a
clause that they price
the
materials at time of purchase of
materials so that they're not padding
the quote with like
other stuff
they give us certainty on the price so
that we don't order the materials within
six months later the material comes in
and we're paying the market probably six
months later
so
and then we might not
exercise it at all because
i mean that that guy was talking like
you know the the supply chain is so
messed up that it's a terrible time to
do a roof and we could wait a year right
yeah so we're going to figure out will
they come back and say whether we can
lock them tonight
it's going to be 10 months and it could
change
[Music]
russian
[Laughter]
it you've had
somebody had something to go but it
needs to be that it needs to be
completely closed
it was the same roof that we had here
that we had to replace in 2015.
we tried to get away with not replacing
it when we moved in but just the act of
putting hvac units on the rooftop just
destroyed the roof
so
it was raining inside brand new building
brand new finishes
all right so let's go to the uh
uh cassidy property we don't i don't
think we have a 450 multitasking update
420
ben you want to talk about
um
it's open there was a ribbon cutting
nate nate was there i had pictorial
evidence
um
it's
i mean i think our seniors are enjoying
it
see i saw a crowded parking lot there
recently
and uh
i think we're having
hopefully
we'll still be able to have like a
planning session there coming up
it's amazing though like what
carpet tile and some paint did in that
space
when you and i went through it oh my god
the water's coming down
it looks great
i mean it really does they painted it so
the is this an everyday area
combination so there's like programming
in there it's it's hangout like open
hours during the daytime for the most
part
members can rent
the space in the evening
it's staffed we have a senior
coordinator who who's working out of
there
and then i think barb griner is about to
actually retire and then come back
part-time helping out
there
in the space so
um evening it's a it's a anyone who's 55
or older you can become i'm not looking
at anybody
anyone who's 55 or older you could
become a member
it's a 30
annual membership fee but if you're if
you're a board member for the cac you
must be doing really well so it's 40
dollars cic members
um
but uh and then i think you can like use
the space in the evenings and stuff for
your
poker tournaments
csc meetings actually yeah we should be
there
that makes a lot more sense
it's more airy
we don't play very well
it is a nice place so it's good
um
so
how do you
[Music]
so we had talked about um there's not
really anything kind of in writing
between the city and the cic now so
we're going to put something in place i
think probably not as much of a concern
from the liability side because we're
all under the same
policy um but both for you know we're
going to be trying we're submitting a
property tax exemption application and
the city is going to pick up some
utilities and other costs so we're going
to get that in writing and get something
in place between
the two parties
mm-hmm
it'll be pretty flexible since
everybody's
heidi has volunteered a basic form that
we're going to work off of
something else
good i mean so you're like talking about
a lease
i we were thinking something not quite
as maybe just a license or something
like that
so that we have something to formalize
it because
who does yeah who's doing what
is guilford
managing or just overseas
uh
no
i mean they don't need to we we asked
them to
oh i thought we told them they don't
need to anymore after this now that work
we'll be we'll handle that so
what's our view how long it's going to
be until until
community builders is ready to break
ground
so or needs uh for whatever reason
needs to get us out in order to prepare
to break ground
and the timing on that is it depends on
we get a grant announcement what's the
timing on that sir well here about
credit awards may 18th
and it'll still be a while to close on
financing um
you know
close on financing maybe
not a full year but probably
early
2023
um and then
construction springish hopefully 2023
through 2024.
okay
so how does how does a you know a rising
interest rate environment and
construction costs fluctuations impact
all that i'm just curious like i don't
understand why tech
that's a great question i mean
the short answers i'm not sure right now
um
i think when you know all these projects
make a lot of assumptions financing
assumptions based on very soft
commitments from
financial institutions and once tax
credits get awarded those are very fixed
it's based on population from the state
of ohio um
so
i imagine many of the projects are going
to have to you know do some serious
readjustment potentially once the
financing awards come out once the tax
credit awards come out and what they're
actually able to afford so you know it's
a real conceptual plan at this point and
if we get you know the award and they
got to make it real
and then they'll have a year oh you know
almost i think contractually they'll
have
a year to close on the finances
and then after they close on finance and
how much time do they have to build
it's not i
don't think it necessarily has to do
with construction completion but it has
to do with kind of um
stabilization so how long it takes for
them to get all of them
you know
36 months
i don't remember
you know they're definitely not worried
in most senses
you know especially this kind of brand
new hot neighborhood you know they're
gonna like that fast
so we'll
we'll know by our june cic meeting
we will be able to discuss
[Music]
yeah and we'll make it a point
hopefully we'll be able to gather with
tcb you know
immediately after and listen to what
they're doing
i think at some point did we apply for a
tax successful for that property right
yes we i believe so and we
it takes a while it takes like six
eighteen months and oh cause it's they
have to go to the state also
yeah it takes eight yeah at least it
takes at least that long yeah but we did
that you did that last at the end of
last year sometime right don't have to
look at it
yeah
so we at least apply for so we'll know
at some point
later this year
yeah we've continued to work on legal
mationizations on the ferndale and
mayfield properties but uh i think we
have a our strategic session's going to
talk a lot about ferndale
so
so in our um cic general account we have
twelve thousand nine forty nine
um we recently transferred over fifteen
thousand dollars from the bexley square
account
which is currently at
412 000 and four dollars and nine cents
we
made a pretty big um
uh payment from there that's in the
process of going to the city
um
in the ferndale account we have 375 229
and in the cassidy account we have 1557
the cash cow
cash gap
send these to you ahead of time next
time so right now we have
426 thousand and 18 dollars the balance
for the line of credit
uh how much is going to the city just
i'm sorry
the you said
from the 4 12 or whatever so it's 80 000
from 21 that we
okay
i mean there's a scenario where
if the roof doesn't get done this year
we could pay off the line of credit
and especially if the
credit
especially if we would determine and
this is something the cic can do
is that you know we could freeze the
economic payments to the city
in order to pay off the line of credit
if it means saving an interest expense
it's something that was discussed at
council last time we
kind of had that
option
and then catch up later
because the fundamentals of the center
are strong so yeah it's uh
just something to consider we used it i
mean the whole one was the live credit
was for 420 anyway so that's a
you know
especially if we're messing with trying
to find a commercial loan on
such a small
debt
okay
uh we didn't have our strategic planning
session we talked about as an executive
committee holding in on
i wrote that one
april did we talk about april 29th
[Music]
that works for everybody but that's what
we're looking at is 20 minutes
it's still after dude
i probably can't make it but don't
don't not do it
somebody else can generally do that
though
29th uh it'll probably be one of the
four
we'll do it we'll have it at uh
i mean
um
the city lets us use it
we're going to charge
the license
exactly i think we should have it on
april 20th
at 4 20.
i'm just saying
speaking of moratorium sorry this is off
topic which i know that we don't ever
like to do but that strawberry fields
place you know on main street yeah their
logo looks like the columbus city
schools logo
every time i drive past it i'm like
there's a school and then i'm like wait
a second that's messed up
[Laughter]
all right um
any old business or new business to
attend to
i need to bring it up again
on the gas station yes there is so
um they have not paid their assessment
they
uh and i'm trying to figure out if this
means anything they paid a little bit of
the assessment
only as much as they were short on their
normal property taxes so i think they
accidentally paid some of the assessment
and not their normal property taxes and
i don't think that matters because it's
still unsatisfied like ninety two
thousand dollars or something so i'm
having kegler research or give us
guidance on what we can do next
uh in terms of
you know there we could we can foreclose
on it and we just have to kind of
go through what that would look like and
what the what the different outcomes
would be of that action
um meanwhile there's another 20 000
assessment that's from last year
and the other piece of it that i'm not
sure about is there's two parcels there
and you only assess one parcel so
i don't know how that all plays when the
two parcels are together one economic
unit in terms of
triggering a sheriff's sale or whatever
so
i will
have more information on that ted what
is he saying anything
i
not that i've heard of communication
every now and then i've reached out
you've reached out so
dave and i met with him
[Music]
okay any other new business
old
we are adjourned