meeting
for july 8th 2021.
uh can we call the roll a strausser yes
mr heyer here mr scott here mr hallman
here madam tony here
uh we'll start with public comment this
is an opportunity for any person to
provide comments to the board on any
item
that is not on the board's agenda for
this evening
any comments relating to items on the
agenda this evening
may be made by those with standing when
the matter is before the board for
consideration
is there anyone who has something they
would like to speak on that is not
before the board tonight
constance lewis 663 you clear after
having attended many many
zoom meetings of yours um and
experiencing the screen situation if
there's some way to make the screens
more visible via zoom that would be
helpful thank you
okay thank you is there anyone else
okay uh the next thing we'll i'm going
to turn it over to the mayor
yes so um thank you madam chair um
today is a uh is a is a sad day in many
ways
architectural viewboard because this is
the first meeting without our
long-standing former chair and very
long-standing member
peter parker so i asked peter barnwell
to come and
appear if he would come up to the ou so
i can
fully embarrass you
[Laughter]
for your service uh i just wanted to
publicly
uh commend you for all of your many
years serving
on our church review board before that
on the board designing fields
and um i think due to his long and
distinguished
career it's very appropriate that i
declare today
july 8th 2021 that's peter parker
i'll certainly offer because i know the
mike needs to pick this up to record it
but
uh 25 years ago uh larry hellman advised
me
not to stay on the board too long
and as usual i failed to heed his advice
so it's been an honor uh joining each of
you
and i leave the board in extraordinarily
good hands
thank you thank you thank you
and and before we let that go i'd like
to make just one small comment
i think we've invented maybe a new noun
possibly a new verb
for an application that's complete and
always completely meets this way it's
been bardwelled
[Laughter]
um also wanted to introduce to you guys
the alternate here for the krb
key fall is joining us
something like that that would be
awesome yeah um thank you
just a little bit of my story i just
moved to bexley back in uh september
um i work with msa architects i know all
of you of architects
most of you anyway and uh been there for
30 years
um came up here to manage our office
and i'm looking forward to working with
you all
so thank you thank you
thank you very much thank you thank you
okay so our next item on the agenda is
the approval of the meeting minutes from
last month
do i have any corrections or someone to
move to approve them
so moved for approval a second
all in favor say aye aye
aye all of us
okay um we will start with our
applications then
okay the first one is part of our old
business
it's application number vs app 21-19
the address is 2455 east main street
the applicant is chris villette
the owner is matlin holdings llc
and the application is before the arb
for a review and comment
this application was approved and issued
a certificate of appropriateness with
the condition that the final patio
canopy in front of the north side of the
building be presented
to the arb for comments
okay first full disclosure i really
didn't think about the fact that i don't
have my two screens at home
with zoom so i'm gonna do my staff
report off the top of my head because i
did not print it out
um but i think oh thank you but i think
it's okay i think i'll remember
you may remember this application this
is for a covered patio that came before
us for cafe istanbul
it needed a variance from the bees app
it came to us first
we had you all had a lot of really great
suggestions
the original um application
i don't i don't think i i think i took
it off of here
because it just was not really worth
having on here anymore
um was very it didn't give anything in
context and it really didn't show how it
connected to the building
and it also blocked the signage so um
just in summary we left the arb meeting
with a suggestion that
the applicant looked at redoing the
configuration of the awning so that the
sign
maintains its integrity on the building
or they considered
if they wanted to put the the entire
covering over the patio that they
consider a monument side in the front
the decision was to lessen the width
of the awning and maintain the sign
in the position that it is bzapp was
very happy with this
out of respect to arb they wanted to
send it back here
to get comments in any
additional conditions with the caveat
being that we don't expect the board to
have
major changes because they did follow
the guidance of you and we are trying to
work with them
simultaneously so they can get their
patio opened
so um i ask that you not kind of
go back and reconsider the entire plan
but you
accept what the configuration is now and
give some guidance as to any of the
details
that that would be my um recommendation
but we still do want to do emotion
there was a little question whether we
really need to do that but we do we want
to do a motion to approve
and i would um recommend that we approve
a motion
uh with any conditions to um
to issue a certificate of appropriates
is the applicant here kathy i don't know
if you wanted to add anything zoning
ones
well i i mean the board the board of
zonian planning did receive
your uh request for remand um and we
karen and i shared with the board that
with the modifications
shown from what was originally presented
to this board
that they did follow what was suggested
so the board was satisfied with that but
being that you had asked for the remand
they just thought it was helpful to at
least share this with you but i don't
know if we asked chris to come back to
this meeting
i talked to him today
is the applicant present
i actually talked to him today he said
he was going to come
so we can go on and come back to it if
you yeah if you want to do that
well i don't i don't know that we really
need to do that because
i think we do yeah i mean at this point
we're just making a few comments
and we're moving it on right yeah and
literally deferring to
here yeah and if anybody has any
significant comments i'll take notes
um and they they did um accept the
condition
that they would can you know work with
me on anything that you guys want so i
think these
drawings you'll find are way better and
showing what this canopy is it's much
more
translucent in the top than it was shown
to be
less dark underneath i'm sure i have um
and i know that wasn't part of this case
to this date i have just really two
questions one
uh with the opening uh the open part of
the canopy
uh for the servers coming out with the
food so if it's raining they're gonna
get
wet i'm presuming that was part of an
agreement
and and number two what provisions for
drainage on the roof pitch side that
head back towards the building
because there will be otherwise i'm
completely in support of
of the great restaurant and food they
turn out so i can address that because
um and obviously if chris was here he
could do it better
but there is a gutter system in this in
the design of this
and we talked about that okay because we
were all concerned about that
okay and the answer to the servers
getting wet is
it's probably not going to be something
that's really used in the rain a lot
anyway it's not it it's a um
it's what do you call that a mechanical
roof that just has
flavors that open and shut so i'm not
sure it's really going to be
i think it's really for hot so
what we're seeing here the open piece is
actually louvers that open and shut
so it's it could be it could be open
like that or it could be shown
thank you and just to clarify on on the
elevations west elevation excuse me the
build the structure does not attach to
the existing
so the water there is a space for water
collection
it appears to have a gutter that takes
it to the side
and there's also the canopy that
protrudes from the face of that building
at the entrance to the building thank
you
um do the other two board members have
any comments or anything that they'd
like to add to this application
i i'd like uh to make a couple comments
one uh the east main street elevation
which is on sheet s three or
three s i'm not sure um they're missing
the column
the the second column in from the left
and uh looks like the beam looks like
the beam system is
wider there for some reason so that's
just a comment and you know i mean the
plan shows it correctly the
rendering shows it correctly but that
elevation
does not you can see that there's a
there's a beam missing right here or a
column missing right here
and then this beam right here is thicker
than the others for whatever reason
probably because that's the main support
i don't know my other
comment is i still think that
a monument sign would be beneficial
because people coming from the east will
not be able to see this sign
through the through the roof system um
if you're coming from the west you'll be
able to see it
clearly but not from the east so i'm a
little concerned that
um again that they don't have they won't
have their
their visibility as much as they would
like but those are my only comments
and and to that point you're correct and
just so that the drawings are
are talking to each other the rendering
also shows crossbars on the west
elevation which aren't showing on the
hem
on these plants
i do not and i'll bring all that and
these are these were
conceptual drawings they're not the
finished drawings that were brought to
be that
and i'll also bring up the monument sign
i know that from our
visa app hearing and from talking to the
afghan i think a lot of it isn't
economics so i think in time i wouldn't
be surprised if they look
into that i think they just want to get
the restaurant you know going more
so the way that we are the way that
these apps sent back to us
is it still going back in your hands for
the details to be worked out yeah i
i think our motion should be that um
with this board approves a certificate
appropriateness
with the condition that the applicant
work with the design consultant
for final details
that's all right to you kathy and
landscape consultant
and landscape consultant yes they did
not say
tree and public gardens they said
landscape consultant because it's
already
really in place so ellen and i will and
i will
be working together with them on this
she happens to be here because
she's a case on the agenda
is there anyone in the audience that
would like to speak on
this application so please step forward
seeing then do i have a board member
that would like to make a motion
uh i know before i approve this we get
appropriate tests
based on final design check off time
consultants
design a second emotion
call the roll
whenever you're ready yes browser yes mr
heyer
yes scott yes mr hellman yes
yes thanks
okay our second application
um is uh arb number 21-43
it's 291 south cassidy the applicant is
pam schissler
the owner is sonya and jared brinkman
the applicant is seeking architectural
review and a certificate of
approvingness for the construction of a
second-story edition
over an existing first floor to include
two bedrooms and new bath
the roof line will not be higher
than the existing roof line
and i'll let karen okay so for those of
you that are
on especially on the board that are
looking at your pronouns from the
original
packet you won't see this because it
just got
posted in last day um it was just
frankly not the faults of the applicant
or i don't think staff either is just
lost in the whole zoom
thing and covid thing and trans trans
transferring back to in person
but this case was actually tabled to a
date certain which was today
which means we didn't have to notice it
so when we realized that this was not on
the agenda
for a whole variety of reasons we went
ahead and put it on
um i i feel pretty comfortable with it
because we had just asked them to
complete drawings that were not complete
um i'm going to show you the original
submission this is what's existing
currently in drawing
and this is what was what the
application was so we didn't really
no one really had a lot of objections to
the concept
neither did i but we didn't have um
any kind of true representation of how
the vertical siding ties into the
horizontal siding
we just needed to see and we had to have
drawing to show
which wasn't there so this is
photographs of what's existing
and the last two um pictures are the new
submission
um we did have some discussion whether
the vertical siding or horizontal
sighting was the right way to go
nobody really had a strong opinion one
way or the other the applicant decided
to stick with the vertical on the top
uh what's below on the first floor is
existing
and um the applicant also took the
recommendation of arb to do
a um a band that separates the two
so these are the new drawings
were there any 3d drawings not for this
[Music]
in the photos i'm sorry no in the last
in the last uh
hyperlink yeah oh sorry yes
there's there are many more things there
we go
including options yes because i think i
think we also
um had a suggestion that
um the stoop be extended at the last one
as well so you can see
the changes here is the applicant
present yes
would you like to come in peaceful sure
thanks for helping me work through this
uh
ladies and getting us here tonight so
please state your name and raise your
right hand uh
pam schissler we solemnly swore from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
yes thank you
okay can you give us a little
explanation just of the changes that you
made and
how you responded to our comments last
month um
changes so uh provided a little more
detail
on the exterior added the freeze board
which we we would plan on um
exactly how we're going to execute that
whether it's aluminum wrapped or borrow
we'll
we'll work through that detail with the
vinyl siding
um and then i know you guys had some
questions on the window placement
on that second floor window placement
and we um i think i went back and forth
with karen a little bit on
um the exterior and we went through a
couple options which i provided here
different layouts inside in that
bathroom and closet to work through
a couple different options on window
placement i still
and i think homeowner agrees she likes
this one the best
um
but we looked at a couple other options
it is the rear elevation
and their sort of side patio is off to
the side rather than behind the house so
they don't get a full view of that back
elevation
and she doesn't want i don't want her to
have a window in her shower
[Music]
okay we'll take it to the board larry
we'll start with you and we'll work down
the line do you have any questions
or comments all right minor comments um
just as part of the final design details
i think it would be great
again we're looking at this as opposed
to some
construction drawing that maybe is part
of the package i don't know but uh
probably skirting for the stoop
side skirting for the stoop yes we could
yeah absolutely and then
uh just i think actually that was
existing
burnett we weren't we weren't touching
that first floor except
adding the um just the uh
little cover on the roof no i'm saying
that before the steps that this is
the there's the bush the bush remains
and that's that
so i think it's a grill okay but you are
extending down the steps with the
railing
no we weren't doing anything to the
steps those were
those are existing i think it's i'm
sorry quickly
the drawing shows a railing extended
down on this oh
that probably was chief architect that
put that on there automatically
um as a code thing but yes
those we were we weren't doing anything
to the steps
and then the little the roof and others
can maybe speak to that better
i don't know if you'll need a support
underneath that to hold that there
probably a little bracket or either a
horizontal
beam structure there yes
window placement for me would be um
probably more b than than
than a although i don't have a strong
preference
um i i think it's a it's improved i
think that the drawings represent the
comments that i remember so
thank you um i don't have a strong
opinion about the different options
um i think looking at the plan i
probably would lean towards preferring
option
a2 just based on the door opening and
seeing the shower and so
that's that's kind of my thing too water
closet um yeah
balance of the facade in the back i
don't think either one is
is aesthetically better than the other
so
i'm okay with that i think my only
comment would be
how the detail of the support for that
uh canopy
right right now in the rendering it's
showing is a just kind of a floating
slab that's gonna
be leaning further down in about a year
um so
yes bracket or two on either side just
absolutely
i know in the in the drawings it shows a
little bit different
um on page two on the side elevation it
shows to have a kind of a dropped
soffit around the eave um so i think
and that's that's more likely what
is built those 3d renderings are my
chief architect
sort of representation again more a
visual
a 3d so and i think the details i think
we just need to lean on our
uh to kind of work with you and i think
having brackets
and maybe even thinning based on this
drawing thinning that soften up the
drops off it up a little bit but i'd be
open to that overall
it's in the right direction
just on the roof of the little shed roof
again yeah it'd be
nice if it would somehow relate to the
front of the house you know the original
house and
i would i haven't looked a lot at the
original house but i'm thinking you know
like
it would pull it around sort of and uh
give it some context
that little curve to it going right yeah
um i didn't want to make it that big
sure
maybe there's some other way to relate
to the front whether it's
the shape of the i would just suggest
you think about
the front and around and how it might
relate better
okay
these the update these are the updated
elevations
on these sheets yes because we're still
not showing i mean the stoop is existing
i understand that but it's not being
shown here
in this elevation it is yes it's not it
is not there
right so it's hard to read the character
you know you're you're showing some
elements but not others
um also the eve condition that you're
showing in the elevations does not match
what you're showing in the model
so i'm con you know as a as a reviewer
it's it's confusing
so again this 3d is just more of a
visual reference
representation karen said you guys like
to see
the um more visual of what
it would look like showing the siding
showing the window locations this is not
part of the permit application this was
just more of a visual aid
there's no aids
but what you're showing here you know
when we're looking at the 3d model we're
looking at the details
as well looking at the character of the
building seeing how it relates to the
existing house
and they're two different additions in
some ways
by the details you know you have a your
eve system is different
um yes i and the model is the one i
would would be approving not this
not with yours no not what's shown in
elevation so
um and because i think the details shown
in the in the model
in the 3d model is actually a better set
of details
than this i don't think that there was a
lot of thought put into
those elevations whereas there's you
know
for instance we're showing the mutton
pattern and the windows on this model
we're showing an eave condition that's
more related to the house
you're actually showing a stoop um so
the confusion on my part is which one am
i supposed to be reviewing
because they're both different they're
different from each other
and if i was you know as
you know how do i how do i know which
one is going to be the one that's used
if i say
i vote yes for this project which one is
the one you're going to be basing the
details on
and if that's if there if you say well
either one
then i would say my vote is conditioned
on the design consultant
working with you to make sure that the
details follow the model
and not what we see in the elevations so
you
those eaves you you like the ease shown
on the 3d
right better than this well look at the
really if you look at the photos of the
existing house
what's shown in the elevations does not
relate to the house at all
it doesn't that's why i say there just
wasn't a lot of thought put into those
elevations
they do not match anything so i can't
read the character
and when you're putting together
drawings for arb we have to be able to
see the character of the house
and i'm just not seeing it in elevations
but i am in that 3d model
it's a little different i think they
took this roofline and just raised it
basically what was on the existing first
floor well the other difference is that
in your elevations you're showing the
eve line of the addition being higher
which is what you see here if you go
back to that photo
you'll notice that the current two-story
edition does have an eve that's higher
than the
uh than the house yes but if you go to
the 3d model view
you've aligned them so which one is it
i've aligned them with the addition the
addition is aligned so you're lining the
the
addition on to the bump out that bump
out's coming off
completely yes not the one story but the
two story yes okay
so now they're aligned that the eaves
will be aligned
so that's shown in the model but
actually in the elevation if you go to
the elevation they're not
it's actually set above it you see that
so the fascia on
it said above it yeah you're right so
i would say i can't vote yes for this
based on
the elevations but i can based on the
model
i mean and i would align the eavs that
would just be i mean
and so then other things like we you
know we were talking about the eve
the the character of the eve the
character of the windows we are based on
the model
and you're saying yes that's the way
that you would our eaves will line up
our windows will match the existing um
yes and the eve detail will match or
what's your what you're showing in the
model yes not the full i mean the
overhangs on the side but not the full
with the brackets you know the old house
has the right
right i understand that yeah not that
right but yes the eaves will line up and
all our gutters will connect and this is
what we call a straight rake eve where
it just comes straight down it doesn't
have a little box out at the bottom
right
right yeah then i would vote yes based
on
what i'm seeing right there knowing that
that stoop is existing
i would i i think the only right thing
to do
is to make the two square with each
other
so your your construction drawings for
example windowing is completely
different
doesn't doesn't show the windows you're
going to install
uh so there's no confusion down the road
and what we sure want to get rid of is
any confusion about this
is that these drawings and your model
are one and the same
so you can look at each one of those and
i completely agree with bill
uh it'll save you much confusion it'll
certainly save us confusion
so i need to talk to my design guys and
get them
tightened up okay so does that mean i
need
you are going to want to see one more
set of plans with those teams
well it depends what they okay they vote
for
if okay if it okay passes it'll be with
the condition
that that i approve drawings that
totally match up and i've
got it all written down got it and agree
okay with
the um the
the renderings what would you like to
see
yeah i think that's acceptable from my
point of view it's remanded to the
design consultant with the
understanding that those are conditions
eve windows
okay anything else that you guys were
seeing inconsistencies
i think if you're going to look at
support brackets for the nuclear
brackets
i would match i mean you have brackets
already all over this
existing house and pull from that design
thank you it's not the match exactly but
i think it should be in the exact same
flat
and i'm getting option a rendering on my
findings
okay and just uh i would also reiterate
option a
this what you're seeing in this model is
the best option window i think
so for the for that back back elevation
okay so option a is good all right and
one parting comment
uh for you historians out there this was
mayor kenny mcclure's
childhood home really yeah this is where
he grew up and wrote a book about all
the empty fields that were east of them
so just for your historians out there
you know there you go next to the uh
you need a plaque you need a song
okay can we have a bindings effect just
so we can try this out
and make a note of that okay the
findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number arb-21-43
for property located at 291 south
cassidy the board finds that a
certificate of appropriateness
should be issued for the proposed second
story edition
which is architecture compatible and the
option a rendering with with the
following conditions
that canopy support brackets be added
over the stoop
and that they align the eaves
and subject to further review and
approval by the design
consultant
okay and i forgot to ask for a public
comment is there anyone in the audience
that would like to speak
about this application
okay let's see again okay do we have a
motion
removed
second check and when you're ready happy
mr scott yes mr hellman yes
ms strasser yes mr hayer yes adam tony
yes thank you thank you all
thanks ladies for your help today too
thank it
okay our next item on the agenda is
under new business it's application arb
21-50
the address is 271 south passing hand
the applicant is stephen boise
the owner is alina andrews and their
request is to remove
existing screens and adding windows
okay um this oops
okay this is um just a lovely house it's
elena andrews who is actually our
landscape
architect consultant for the city
i'm going to let them do most of the
presentation but i wanted to point out
that
today i actually got additional
elevation drawings because i didn't
really feel like and apparently i wanted
it either that we really had
good elevation drawings so they're not
anything new that you've seen but i
think they're more complete
um these are these are the new ones
correct
i'm trying to look for the pictures of
the actual house it's on the one that
had the sample if you scroll down
oh okay keep going sorry this is just a
transition time for me
trying to get used to this again there's
the house that's
it there we go okay so this is just
about
there's no replacing any of the
beautiful stone columns they should like
to replace
the existing screens with
with windows and the
elevation drawings which i think are
easier to flip back and forth with the
actual
um photos are here
i have no problem with this i'd like to
go ahead and have the applicants sworn
in
[Music]
please state your name helen andrews you
saw only swear
from the testimony you're about to give
this evening is the truth yes
hi nice to see you all um so yes this is
my house
um at 271 south cassian ham it's right
across the street from the entrance to
the middle school
and um the screened-in porch the wood is
just
basically kind of deteriorating and i
would like to turn it into more of a
three season room
so it's not technically you know full
windows
so they would be a an aluminum system
that is going to have a tan color that
matches the existing kind of tan color
of the existing windows
that you see on the double hung windows
above and
we would have a at the entrance the door
there'd be a sliding door
not this one so in the east elevation
i think the the next one l4 that one yes
all right so on the east elevation
basically trying to still keep the same
rhythm of the four bays
um how the structures though is um it's
basically going to be an
infinite aluminum system that has a
center post
and then each of those windows is one
sliding glass window that will have a
screen and the other the outside ones
would be fixed
there would be an 18-inch knee wall at
the base that would have a glass panel
and then that transom is going to at the
top is going to vary a little bit in the
field depending on you know the height
of the
you know the existing conditions the
north elevation
um you'll see there is going to be a
swinging 36 inch wide door and then a
fixed
panel and then on the south elevation
that's essentially just one large
window system that will have a sliding
um
window as well which would have a screen
so the intent is just to still kind of
keep the general
character of it but just to make it look
a little bit more
finished then um i think
it was probably done and probably not
the house is 1948 i think the screen and
porch was done
by the owner maybe 1950 and it really it
needs to be redone
okay um let's go to board comments we'll
start with mr heyer
sure um
so first of all in the drawings it says
that
you mentioned that those are supposed to
be sliding windows
yes is that correct yes except the
drawings show them hinged
that's that's that's my not knowing
architecture
the right one it is i was like i just
wanted to show that those are the ones
that are moving
yeah so yeah that's easy enough to
change if you want to just
we just draw an arrow an arrow yeah for
which direction for a slider
but you know here what you know it's
it's like i can totally fix that
it's it's you know architecture is a
language and when you when it's spoken
you know we hear and uh it's saying
something different on the beginnings
that's all i'll totally fix that
um normally you know i would not vote
for a
florida room or a three-season room
facing the street
i think we're seeing that a lot in
bexley and um
you know we want to encourage open
porches for communication
um and you know just rapport with
neighbors and people on the street and
whatever
um so that that is that is a comment
i mean we we definitely deal with this a
lot in south bexley where we really
encourage the porches
to be open and so i'm kind of torn
about the idea i like the design um
i think it looks great but i am torn
about it facing the street and being a
closed in space bexley is all about our
open porches
and the more we close them in the more
we as a community say
we're closing ourselves off there's
still the landing
there where the front entrance is in
that door i mean so that's still
open yeah but i understand i understand
your comment
that's all i have missed
i was just thinking about your comment
uh i i drove by
and it's your plan is pretty consistent
with the feel of the street there are a
lot of closed in
porches already and for me i
the the screen versus half screened i
think in the summer it's going to be
open anyway and
pretty inviting so because it's not
all solid glass all the time right it's
um
less of a challenge i think so
nice job
uh i agree i i think uh i think it looks
nice and
aside from the full enclosure comments
already stated
i think i think it's a nice design
mr helm yeah you know there's there's
a transition and a trade-off um you
don't present yourself
to the public on your open porch in uh
december january february march
but you might do some of those months if
it's enclosed
so it's it's a trade-off and and so
at the end of the day plus it creates in
that in that sense more usable space so
there are pluses and minuses i think the
size of this is
nice and i think it picks up the rhythm
of the house so i'd be in support of
this
okay i have a question for you in your
sliders do you have the ability to put
screens in those windows
when you slide them open oh yeah there's
screens that will always be there yep
yes yes okay um and then
i felt like when i was looking is this
the right elevation
no i was gonna say can you show them
okay so when i look at these
i just worried that that really skinny
long piece of transom glass and even at
the bottom
is going to be a little strange the
bottom one actually
maybe bothers me more is there a way to
just fill that in so that it looked like
a flat panel rather than putting a long
skinny piece of glass at the bottom
it could be solid um i like the idea of
having
it glass for my dog just so he could
just so that he could peek out um and
and i didn't i wanted it to try to feel
as open as possible um and so rather
than having you know because then it
would just basically be
a painted aluminum kind of infill panel
and i like the idea of having it
glass and i think part of it was more
for the reflection i think if it's all
going to be glass it's going to read
more than if that
all of a sudden had a band at the bottom
of an info material yeah
i just look at that especially the
really large window i don't feel like
that's how they would have built that
i could ask them if we could do a a
mullion
in between and kind of at least break
that up yeah it looks look really long
okay and i think i'd run it above too
okay
yeah i can ask them if they can do that
definitely i think it makes it less
fragile
too that's a that's a big expanse of
glass okay
okay that's all i
how have i describing this we're just
adding a uh a
horizontal line on the largest transom
and lower glass
vertical side yeah i think if we go to
the photographs
i would not support them right here full
panel like in the bulkhead
of the proposed sample project
has a solid panel i think that lessens
the
the effect of the quality of the
installation
it's the stuff after
it would be the next one of course
mine's not rotated like that but here
you can see the panels and
and that to me looks more of a um
kind of just a retrofitted installation
it doesn't you know you're not creating
this kind of
timeless bulkhead under that window it's
just kind of this infill side
i'd much rather see it all glass and
have a little dog window i mean it's
awesome
but i think that fits the character and
allows the piers to come in the stone
appears to be accentuated
it allows this to be something that uh
looks like it's been in addition to and
enclosure and not kind of fake something
of some historic nature
and so it's adding a vertical right
mistoni okay okay just just to confirm
okay in the largest one right here
yep and right here okay
i also think that elevation scale might
be
your drawing might be a little off
because i think the one on the bottom
like
if i'm reading sorry about you said 18
inches and the one on the top it's like
14 inches
no well it it depends in terms of it
it's how they were um how they were
dimensioning it
and so it might tweak a little bit in
terms of sure
where they're actually measuring it in
the drawing the one on the top looks
super skinny super small yeah half of
what the one on the bottom is and i
don't think it's supposed to be
i don't think it will again measure yeah
which that's a good thing yes i would
prefer more window too
okay can we have findings of family
neighbors oh i'm sorry
is there anyone that wants to speak on
behalf of this
application
seeing no one great findings the
findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number arb
21-50 for property located at 271 south
cassingham
the board finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued
noting that the green window three
season system
is compatible architecturally with the
existing structure
subject to the condition that the
applicant add a horizontal
mullion to the upper and lower transoms
on the south elevation
kathy can you change that to vertical
million
oh you're right sorry thank you thank
you
okay so move one second
second
uh mr scott yes strasser
yes mr heyer yes mr hellman yes
yes excellent thank you guys very much
have a good night
okay our next application is arb 21-52
the address is 692 chelsea
the applicant is angel subsiac the owner
is
danielle and angel subzac the request
is for a front porch edition
okay um kathy do you want to talk about
this one a little bit first or you want
me to
uh sure okay this was actually
uh we had we had an applicant that
applied for
replacement windows and siding and
roofing at one point and the contractor
proceeded to
make modifications to the porch which
weren't approved and it was brought to
my attention and
we reached out to the owners and the
owners i believe had some issues with
that contractor so
the owner has decided uh that you know
her being the owner of the property
she's responsible so she is bringing
this application to the board
for review for what's been done and i
don't believe it's
complete at this point so we want to
share with you what
what's proposed and if she has anything
more to add i'll leave that up to the
applicant
but what's been done to the porch has
not been approved thus far
by karen or a board yeah the um
this this home and i don't have it on
here
i don't know that i can fill it up on my
staff notes without
messing all this up but i included the
staff in this picture of what it looked
like before
when they bought the house and um this
is a
just an example of you know an old
house that needed a lot of tlc and it
has just
been one project after another um they
did replace the original sighting with
final sighting which
everyone here that knows me knows how i
feel about that but that is something
that is
you know the wheelhouse so that's the
changes that you see i just wanted to
make sure i pointed out
from the photos of the house as it was
bought
a lot of those are 2019 issues so we're
just looking at the porch here
um you see the the photograph
there i would much rather everybody
focus on the drawings
um i i'm okay with this providing that
they work with me on a lot of the
details i like the columns
probably need to be pushed out more so
that they the beam and the center of the
column line up
in a more traditional way with the house
i mean i do like that the
um the awning is pushed in from the side
of the house there's some
good things that are going on but i do
think a lot of the details still need to
be ironed out i'm more than happy to
work with the applicant
but um we should let the board or the
applicant actually
make any comments and i'm not even sure
that there have been any footer
inspections on those columns
but to even know what the computer is
what's in the photo
is not going to be okay it might be just
propping up that just popping up the
roof
so there's a lot that needs to happen
there's a deck and
um you know so how about if i swear in
the applicant so if you would state your
name starting with you ma'am angels will
be sacked
dean you'll see this there please raise
your right hand you saw me swear or
affirm the testimony you're about to
give this evening is the truth
yes yes thank you
so um yeah like she said we had a lot of
contractor issues
and then um we brought in another
contractor and he worked with uh
his architect to look at the drawings at
that time when they did it they did
dig up the around the sides of the
the post to see what has been done
and that's why they put they mentioned
that they're already like um
three sono tubes and the new design
shows that one more post has to be put
in for
proper support
is there anything else um yeah like i'm
like she said like some of the details
are not very
like done yet but i mean i have like i
mean i'm like composite decking i have
like a color that's just
i mean i have it on my phone um
and um yeah
yeah like cosmetic details are not very
it's not
available there other than composite
decking but i already have a color
that's chosen that i could like
work with her to make sure it's okay
okay um let's start with board member
questions um when i start
um so the first couple cases we talked
about getting the drawings to align
here we don't have to talk to start with
so uh
i i'm presuming we can i
i just don't know where to hold the line
where to not hold the line when it comes
to this i understand
that we can probably resolve all this in
your hands
uh there's the job it's a little awkward
to approve something
uh even that condition on uh
so if people ever came back and said do
you prove something with drawings that
are
so light in terms of what's there so i'm
looking for some guidance on that i
don't think what they conceptually want
to do
is an issue at all uh it's just that
we're not too clear what the it is
and she'll still need structural
drawings to get the building permit for
that board
you're next
so i think i drove by this house before
i knew this was going to be on the
agenda tonight and it was i actually
paused because i was driving my son
somewhere and
i kind of know this was like a huh
moment like i wonder how i remember
seeing this nor do i
know what this is uh so i'm thrilled
that it's here so thank you and i know
with the bad contractor that can be
a lot of stress and uh having to regroup
and then
come before us can maybe be stressful
too not to see
um but looking at the drawings that you
have submitted i think you know
there are some details maybe that i'd
like to know a little bit more about but
i think in general it's following the
kind of rules that i would want to see
like the
the canon the new porch is kind of
pulled off the corners of the house
um you're wrapping the the wood deck um
and i would you know we could talk about
you know other materials other than wood
as the wrapper the front porch of the
house
we always would like to see you know
something else the brick or stone or
something but
i know where we're at in the the
existing house and the siding that's
that's already there
it gets to be difficult so uh and i
appreciate it it's all being wrapped
so at least there's a solid nature to
that slab of that front porch
um i think there's some i don't say
decorative but ornamental things that
you know either
could be taken further but i think with
the nature of the simplicity of the
existing house
could also be removed so you're putting
these column caps on the bottom of the
com each column and the
trim at the top um and i think you know
those sometimes just get done because
that's what expected and i'm not so sure
i think there's other other things you
can look at to kind of even
further simplify those details to kind
of make this house
kind of match the kind of existing
character of the of the existing house
um but other than that i think that
definitely
first the three columns versus four and
four is the way to go
i think it works with the design of the
house and the existing windows and doors
so overall i think it's it's the right
approach and i don't have any objection
to um
to what i'm seeing yeah it adds and one
additional comment i don't know how
in looking at this and i apologize i
didn't walk this
uh the front of this property i drove by
how close
is the siding to the ground certainly in
the front because
i i don't know i guess what i'm thinking
about is the siding comes how far down
to the ground
and will the decking be above the siding
or will you have to remove siding you
certainly don't want decking
in front of the siding yeah so what
how does this is why i'm saying in terms
of details and so forth
yeah that's something that you really
want to work because it can be a mess
for you i mean that could be a real mess
for you
i understand yeah at that point when
they are actually going to put in the
base when they build out the base
for the porch they would be tearing off
like
two or three pieces of siding yeah um
at the height of the um
the deck base would be the same as what
the current foot
stoop is so like from what it looks like
like
one and a half piece of siding will go
or two pieces yeah yeah we'll we'll
obviously need to see
something like that or how we that's
that remainable to you i'm okay with it
i mean i don't
i think it's a very um the house is a
very simple house
the things that i really look for are
pulling the port the fortune
i'm okay with the metal roof given all
the kind of new modern
like the different look than what was
there originally anyway
um i i don't really have a preference on
the columns i totally
you know respect what pete is saying
is is the drawing accurate that the roof
is pulled in
from the side of the house because
sometimes the drawings don't match
what's
really going on and you can't tell from
this i can't tell you
i'm not going to judge this on the
picture yeah like this has to
i almost i'm sorry that the picture is
in here but
it has to be because you know it is what
it is
i'm simply looking at like bill's point
on that other case
this is what i'm looking at for the
approval but is that the roof is already
there
but if it's there's no roof yet we
haven't put in a
metal roof or shingles roof yet yeah so
this all
is being torn off it might it most
probably will have to i mean there's
like a felt
that goes before the like shingles or
metal roof is put on that's what is
there right now
and based on um
like you know if you when you're about
to put the roof if you see like
water damage on that like plywood or
whatever that press would it probably is
gonna go off and
it'll be done as per the so they were
replacing the
roof material as part of the roof permit
that was
issued so that is the existing roof
that's been
within the process being resurfaced and
then they started making modifications
underneath
so there still could be further
modifications
yeah is there another roof that's being
replaced or
added no just the front just the
i think it'll be clear if we look at the
before picture from
2019 right all the wood you see on the
front porch is
new oh i can get to it come on
yeah it's forgotten it's an improvement
the pre the porch when we
bought the film was a fiberglass that
would flatten the wind
and um erector set style
uh support
so all the wood is what our contractor
uh
swapped up with that um
right that's what i'm saying it if if we
approve this it is based on the drawing
which means that the roof of the portico
has to come in
okay i just want to make sure you
understand yeah i made a note yes
i guess i'm confused by
is it the last drawing in the pencil
drawings
shows a different roof section that
doesn't
match the depth of the porch the canopy
we're planning to go one more there's
the section of the porch
keep going and there's one more drawing
oh this one was i mean
this uh it's actually two drawings one
for the front porch and the
back porch so we're just looking at the
front porch
like the permit i've requested for is
just for the front porch
so you're not doing the back part no
okay so this was just accidental
yeah it's all just all together page is
that
the very last three page three okay i
want to make sure this does not include
that
and there is a a different view in the
first two pages as well
i think it's that canopy please
yeah that was two right there yeah the
one on the left is actually the back
porch drawing
this one yeah
so originally i think this application
was going to be for the front and the
back porch but to be clear initially yes
that's what we started just doing the
front part yes
what page is that
so you need all that removed down with
me yeah
you have to have that taken off for the
these are just
conceptual i mean they're more than
conceptual but
when you submit your building permit you
can't have
the back porch drawn okay on here
because we will have to officially
permit it according to exactly what it
was on the drawings
okay
i guess i'm a little confused about
whether
this this roof is being removed
it has to if you okay okay and you
understand that
the what what's being anticipated is
that you would
remove the front porch roof entirely
and start over okay because the existing
roof
uh as presented in this photo is the
full width of the house
okay and the drawings show it is a
little more narrow
which is the the desired
appearance so i just didn't want you to
be
surprised when karen is
expecting that roof to be room i don't
think you can just make it smaller
you're just gonna have to
tear it off and start over what i don't
think so yeah
so um was was that rebuilt or is that
the old roof with just the sheeting
pulled off
no it was rebuilt okay so you know
you'll have to rebuild it again
okay
well the good thing is is that there's
not a lot there it's two columns and the
beam
and then some roof structure so it'll be
able to be removed fairly easily
i would think so i would um actually
based on everything i'm hearing
i would request that this be tabled and
that we see it again
for a number of reasons one it's a
public it's facing the public
you know and all the porches and
additions and things that we see that
happen
in the right-of-way or with the view to
the street
are much more visible and important
architecturally they're they're second
they're they're first
in line additions at the back are second
and third
and so on but these are the ones that
really make becksley right and i mean
the street views
are incredibly important the
architectural quality
of the columns and the cap you know the
capitals for the columns
and we've seen a lot of these box column
capitals
and frankly they all need to die and go
away
because they have no character none at
all um
then you have issues like the beam
system
overhanging the end here um when in fact
you have
your current columns are correct where
you have the the beam ending at the face
of the
so these overhang things we're seeing a
lot of this happening in bexley and it's
really a suburban
um it's a detail that doesn't belong in
bexley to have those overhangs and we're
seeing too many of them
um so i'm you know that plus we'd want
to see some kind of skirt
here right because we we just we're
looking under your porch
yeah i think it mentions in there like
composite
yeah but trim that goes around so that
you won't be like looking
under i understand um but really based
you know based on
everything that i'm hearing and these
details need i mean dennis meacham is
very talented and he
and his drawings are beautiful these
hand drawings are
are beautiful i mean i love seeing hand
drawings um but
you know things like these are four by
six no we we can't do a rectangular post
this should be a square post
um because this is not in character for
bexley to have to have just a four by
six post
it's a rectangle it's not a square we
either do square around
um and that's common throughout bexley
so
those kind of things need to be and then
the handrail i mean this is three steps
and three steps by code needs a handrail
how are you actually incorporating the
handrail into this
system because even if you don't have a
guard rail here
which you are not required to have
because you're less than 20 inches from
the grade you still are required to have
a handrail are you doing two handrails
are you doing one handrail
what does the handrail look like there's
just too much here and i would request
that based on all that this be tabled
and we see it again next month
i'd like to add to the column comment i
think obviously the existing
existing porch that's there now is just
wood columns unfinished
and i want to make sure we note that we
wouldn't want to see unfinished wood
columns you know four by four six by
sixes they would want to be
most likely to paint it at minimum but
trimmed and then painted
unfinished wood would only be more on a
craftsman with stone piers and that type
of thing and even then
it's this this house isn't appropriate
so we want to
look for much more of a kind of front
porch type of column
yeah the plan i mean um i and
i heard the comment about the square or
the wrong pose our plan was to put in
like your wrap you wrap those wood like
the four by sixes with with wood and
like painted
again if if four by six is the
structural component you just wrap it
and box it out differently
i think that would be acceptable uh
maybe maybe not i don't want to speak
for anybody else but i think the
in the end the character of that wants
to look like a front porch
one other detail that i'd like to point
out is the section
through the porch there's a couple of
things um
it's on the next page i think yeah there
so this is not common for bexley where
you know you just have a board either
side that that is in front of and in
back of the column
um that is running along and and forming
a beam it's that's not really a beam
it's a skirt board
and so the architect or whoever's doing
your drawings needs to make sure that
this acts as a beam a true beam
and not a skirt board and that the
column
you know be aligned with it and that it
support it and visibly support it that
is
bexley's tradition um and that's very
important and mr meacham can do that
i know he could draw these um
with all of those details everything
we're talking about he could do it
really
really well so yeah i'd like to make the
comment i mean
you've come you've taken a house that
needed some love
and you've come a long long way with
this house
and you're close to the finish line and
and
you're at the stage to where these kinds
of details
will really enrich your house and
you will yeah and as when they are done
and you start to
you know because now you walk around you
look at other houses and you say well i
kind of get it i see what's happening on
some of these other porches
but your house will be one of the ones
that is great and set an example so
it's worth the effort to do this it may
sound like we're being
a little uh fussy with this thing but it
makes a real
difference when you start and then when
your house is right the next guy's house
is right
and we've got and we're protecting what
bexley's all about so
is there anyone in the audience that
would like to speak on this application
okay so um do you understand what we're
asking we're asking that you
complete the drawings with the comments
that we've made and you come back next
month
okay is that okay yeah um
i wanted like one of you commented on
the
like the square like those little things
at the base
and the top could could someone repeat
what what is expected i can talk to the
architect for you okay explain yeah
i'll help you work through all those
details that we that we just made
and i think mr heyer is right that the
architect will understand what we're
talking about
okay that sounds good okay
so do we want to table this to a certain
date august
yes well yeah are you good with that
next month
i would think so
so we just i mean
yeah i can call and if not then we can
wait till the next meeting and then
we'll just have to send a notice for the
if it's
september but if we can have the story
for august we'd
okay so are you motioning i would make
the motion that this be tabled
a second
call miss strasser yes mr helman yes
mr scott yes mr heyer yes madame tony
yes thank you so much we'll see you back
here next month
okay our next application is arb 21-54
the address is 407 north view the
applicant is
the owner of the request is for
demolition and a new single
family home
okay this is
um a two-part
application in that we need to talk
about both the demolition
and what is being put in its place as
the
ordinance i'm not going to read through
the entire ordinance i did include it in
your staff report so that you had a
checklist to go through
we can talk about any of the issues
you're concerned about
i also had brought to
the applicant's attention that there was
still significant amount of information
in my opinion missing some of that has
been added
as early as today um and i also
explained that it was my anticipation
that
you know demolitions take a few times
usually so i didn't want to get any
hopes up that would be because
they would pass the first time but
having said that i did want to point out
that
additional drawings had been have been
added today i don't know if everyone had
time to look at them
oh they are distorted
um i'm just going to say right off the
bat i know that
some of us did not have a chance to look
at this it was very it was very offended
but in any case they are on the website
and i just wanted to point out
that some of these things that i was
looking for in addition
are have already been added but as all
of you have probably
this at least the board members have
seen um i
put together a list of which i left up
you know that i would
you know this will be part of the
minutes and i will also give him a list
but i was concerned about not having all
the elevations which are
currently there now material boards and
samples which
may be something that's going to be
presented today landscape plans
a context study height study meaning the
height
of the final height and floor height
of a floor plate of the new home
for reasons we don't need to get into
but anybody that follows us knows that
this has been an issue with new builds
that we want to make sure that we get
ridgelines where we expect ridgelines
and not um taller based on where the
floor plate is
um there's also and kathy's going to
speak to this a need for a lot
split approval that is happening
simultaneously
well well actually really an issue for
this board but i do think it's
right you should speak to you the fact
is that the applicant
in his proposal of what he's planning to
build
he's trying to meet the he is meeting
the setback requirements
for one of two lots that he currently
owns at 407 northview
so any approval on this he also has a
request before city council to split
these lots
because the code re sees
these two lots as one lot being they're
owned by one individual
even though there's two parcels and the
fact that
neither one of these lots meets the lot
size for the r3 zoning district
that requires city council in order to
get that approval
so anything that happens with this case
based on
the house proposed built on the proposed
south lot
would have to be conditioned upon uh no
lot split until that subject to the city
council's approval
but what he's proposing does meet the
setback requirements regardless if he
splits the lots or not
for that one lot it's there's a lot of
moving pieces and parts and we
need to talk about demolition ordinance
as well um
but for that reason i i would just state
off the bat that my staff recommendation
as
this application be tabled to collect
more information
but that we um have a preliminary review
discussion
of both the demo and the new bill today
in this case it's actually been before
the board
previously uh prior owners had it
and proposed an addition and
modifications and
and when they applied for the building
permit and got contractors in there
and looked at the condition of what they
were dealing with
it it didn't make sense in their mind to
try to fix what's existing so
i think it would put them upside down in
the house so they simply chose to
sell the house at that point and so the
current owner
he's proposing to demolish it and build
a new home
can you refresh either is it my policy
of my ordinance
that the tool for demolition has to be
coupled
with an approved house plan yes the
house plan has to be approved
yeah the house has to be approved before
the demolition permit can be issued that
way they can demo the house and
immediately start building the new
but by vote you can't split the vote
either can you no
you can't approve a demolition without
proving the house we've never done that
unless there is
um like a public hazard we've had you
know correct
if there's right some reason that the
house could be dangerous
remaining but no we need to have
him voted on at the same time right and
there's plenty of information on the
existing condition of the home that
if you've had an opportunity to look at
that it's yes
but there are several pictures in the
application that show the
existing condition of the home and
that the board members have had an
opportunity to view
there's some 44 pictures in here so i i
mean i
hopefully you all have had a chance to
look through but um i
believe that the condition of the home
is the number one
um i mean we should let the applicants
speak to this or the builder but
um that seems to be the majority of the
support for
demolition and we can go through all
these pictures or talk about it or
answer any more specific criteria
um i think we need to have the
applicants
if the applicant would come forward
do you swear from the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
yes thank you yeah
the house i bought it with the realtor
uh chris peter i do not wear
uh anything violation
before the house they have so much to
complain the neighbor
such as but
my wife angie and we are
a liver breakwood right now
she always won a brand new home so i
bothered the
house we planned to tear down and build
a new home
but on the other hand is
on the website
our ohio auditor it is
two lots but
the garage is currently the one garage
is saved on the
other lots and the house see the one not
so i hire attorney and they
try to split the laws meanwhile
submit a plan with the architect
three pillars to build a brand new home
the currently condition is really bad
and they have met
company he tried to estimate
remodeling that home so he wrote the
recommendation the letters so
if you can read that and they tell them
also i took a bunch picture
they have a mold rock wood
basement and all leaking all over
and also siding
window just totally it's not worth to
remodeling
that's the reason why proposals build a
brand new home
but i do understand the neighbor
complaint
and then they talk about it so that's
something we'll come here
want to get a proof and we have a
drawing we have uh
you know all professional la nam
to try to build a dream home so
so you realize this board does not vote
on whether you can split the lab
the only thing we will we will look at
is the architecture of the new home
uh yes but you can do consideration
you know and uh to look
into the case you know yeah that's just
not part of our jurisdiction so all we
will all
all we will comment on tonight is the
architecture of
the new home that you're wanting to
build and the
demolition of the existing house okay
so
to yeah all right guys so if you need to
answer any questions please state your
name
crispy do you saw me swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
yes thank you hi everybody i know many
of you
many in the room too um you know
g and i approached this property
specifically uh
to tear this down and if you look at the
property and
and i dare say that i've been in as many
properties as anybody in this room in
bexley and probably been in more
transactions and
facilitated more people getting into new
homes and
deciding what to do i've renovated homes
and bexley done other things
with other folks so i'm very familiar
with the real estate market after 35
years
there is no thought when we got into
this home and really started looking
into it of the ability to you know
renovate or add on to it it just doesn't
make any financial sense
um the opportunity here for bexley is
you're going to put a
million dollar house on a lot and if we
can split that lot
which it already is indeed a tranquil
county live um
and we can get the city to approve a
bill on that lot you'll have two houses
in the eight to 1.2 million dollars on
these two lots providing taxes for
bexley
i think gee you'll find today when he
presents all this and you guys look
through it that he
spent the money to hire a professional
architect he spent the money to get the
right people in there to take a look at
it
um i think he's done everything you guys
have asked him to
now tabling it yeah that's your decision
i know
actually never does anything on the
first round through but
um you know time is of the essence um
you know we're all getting towards
september believe it or not we you know
we're 60 days away from that
um so um we'd like to get this going if
there's anything i can help to
facilitate
i certainly would dave doctor it's going
to handle anything
legally as it comes up
but what we're trying to do today is
get the idea past you that yeah we want
to submit an appropriate plan so we can
tear this house down and start moving
forward
the complication is we have to tear that
garage down to what sits on two lots
and i i don't know if that's the
complication or not
according to the city um but i think
she's got
a real good opportunity to improve
that lot improve the neighborhood and
improve the values of surrounding
neighbors
and who doesn't want that yet nobody
wants a 10 story
you know next to it and i i gotta admit
i'm the first one to tell you i don't
want to tear down a house with bexley
i live in a pre-1900 house that i left
exactly the way it was and
renovated that way but there are times
when it comes
to having to do this i think this is
one of those cases last thing i'll say
is i i priced this house i don't know if
anybody knows the history
that this was howard park's house the
old attorney big attorney in the city of
columbus
and when his estate uh when he passed
away his estate came to me and i helped
price this so that they could figure out
how they're
gonna pass it down to the family so the
people that own it now our family of
howard parks
so to my knowledge i don't want to say
anything but it probably was above their
means at that point
it was more a quest for being in the
family home
than it was you know improving and
taking it to the next level and we all
see
what lack of character home does and
that house is a perfect example it's
time
to get it off off the lot and get
something to improve so that
the neighborhood can enjoy something new
to look at so that's
why i'm here any questions along the
process
uh cathy knows you can call me anytime
and i'm just here to help
yeah i just want to clarify a couple of
things
um i maybe i shouldn't even mention the
last one but i think it's important to
understand the context that's not what
we're looking at here
and when i said that this would take
more than a meeting
it's actually not true that we don't
pass things on the first round through
it's
even demolitions we've had demolitions
in new builds that have perfect packets
i just received the elevations for the
other three sides other than the front
today i can't i can't do a staff report
or an evaluation internally let alone
ask my volunteer members
to do an approval on something that they
just got today
so i just want to make sure we're clear
that i'm
in no way against or or for i'm just
here to mediate this project what i was
there are a lot of missing elements in
the packet
and that's what i'm concerned about okay
so there's still some more things we
need
to know and kathy will work with us tell
us those kathy
i will i hear what i have designed all
aspects yeah yeah
can i make one comment on that uh is
that okay okay
so um the demo is the first step right
and
we have a statute that dictates what
information
is required in order to establish a case
for demolition
and i don't think that's close here so
um what else do you recall well you guys
put that forward
it's in writing in this in the statutes
and it talks about
um we need a state an applicant or a
professional
i did provide the demolition
requirements attached to his application
so
mr liu does did have access there it is
right there
and i know mike dillendorf with his
company provided this thing
um and i'm sorry i don't did i miss
something in the packet
addresses the historical
significant it is in the packet a lot of
it also
is still missing so that's why i said
yeah um there is a there is a letter
from
matt dallendorf who deals with the
economic issues right i think
yeah yeah i thought that it deals with
the economics
but it doesn't deal with the threshold
issue which is
is the property of historical
significance is it of architectural
significance
and i'm not saying it is but we don't
why is it our job
to provide that we don't think it is
it's just the statute it's it's always
the applicant it's the applicant's
requirement
so so he's gonna help me understand this
he's gonna
tell you why it's so historically
great that you have to keep it i mean i
understand why it's his job to prove
that that's your guide
mr peden typically the applicant submits
information to the board from an
independent individual
who has nothing to gain by the approval
of whatever's being requested
so a professional a professional mike
delandorf is a builder and he can
certainly
speak to the aspects of the structural
portions
but it's got to be not historically
significant
architecturally significant or worthy of
preservation
so well i think i answered that
in this letter and that's your opinion
that's your opinion
not going to know this is not going well
right now so yeah i think we maybe want
to stop the back and forth can i just
ask one question
where do i go next who do i go to so
there are other architects that have
done this in the past
um one works for ohio state university
so if you want to contact him he'll come
out and take a quick look at it and do
some research on it and then he'll write
you the letter
okay and i'm sure karen can help yeah
there's a lot of other people like that
so you can see
that we have a precedence of the way
this has happened for many years
in the city and we just need to keep
going through those same steps
to just make sure that we're all on the
same page and that everyone is treated
equally
so we need to hire an architect to tell
us that the property is
not historically valuable someone who
can do a little
research on it and let me back up for a
minute and just say that
kathy a while ago downloaded
um for your access the and it's on the
project
file the demolition ordinance so
what really is always done and i really
thought that that was understood is that
you go through the demolition ordinance
and answer all the questions
if you can't find the answers to the
questions then it's appropriate to hire
somebody
who can do the research and get the
answers most of the time this board will
like to see a supporting letter from a
local or national architect or
historical preservationist
it's it's not an involved process really
it's just asking somebody to come out
and give an evaluation but that that
that demolition ordinance
i i know from looking at the city's
portal was downloaded quite a while ago
by
kathy as you go through it mr peden if
you have any questions of how to
get something done this staff will be
more than happy to help you and
point you in the direction of someone
that can help you get it done i
you know the only thing i can say is if
i was told at the beginning that i
needed
that and the order i guess i didn't
understand what the ordinance said
exactly
so yeah
and he also indicated that he had an
attorney that was working so i assumed
that he was going to share this document
with this attorney
she is the applicant on record and
that's who i've been communicating with
yeah and like i said i've tried to stay
out of some of that communication
i'm just trying to get inside um what we
need to do next so that there's no lack
of communication
with that doc you have anything you want
to say
do you know what this what
you have to do you need to come up with
this for an answer
sorry do you know what is this an r3 or
an r6
r3 square
i think i think at first blush uh
the team of a model recommendation i
think we have to get a little
organization here who wants to represent
and to say what
and number two the ordinances i think
are fairly
clear and the access to our staff
is pretty complete and we do have
procedures which we don't have
back and forth arguments uh back we try
to not do that because i don't think
that's productive
and number two we swear people in when
they speak so if we could follow those
basic rules which are the law we have to
live with
that would be helpful for us so could
you
finally swear in i'm not i'm not
then you'll probably need to not speak
further
okay what this board would like to do is
go through your application and give you
some quick comments so that when you
come back
um next month we have a more complete
application and
uh the architecture represents what
we're looking for as a group
okay so i will start we'll start with mr
heyer
and again these are comments that you
can take
back with your architect and um
and address them so that when you come
back um you know it'll be a little
closer to what we're looking for that
i'm sure is dizzy does the are you the
architect
the architect that would be i think one
last thing would be whether the
architect wishes to
present his thinking behind the plans
uh to lay the groundwork for our review
yeah that would be helpful yeah i did
not realize that the architect was here
sir would you like to come forward and
present this
design we'll swear you when david
johnson
do you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to get this evening against
the truth
yes
so hold the first blush
premise of the design is kind of an arts
and crafts
kind of more of a cottage trying to
some of the things i've done on the
front elevations to bring the scale down
so it's not
so massive of a two-story
there's a street kind of a streetscape
rendering and it's hard to see now
that's kind of all compressed but
there's a low ranch home
facing the house to the left and a
couple of other
more of a two-story brick home
to the right beyond the lot where the
freestanding garage that's going to be
torn down
is so um
a lot of bexley has a lot of stone it's
almost like you know
you just you think about new albany you
think we're you know georgian
whereas bexley you've got a lot more of
that kind of arts and crafts some stone
mixed in so i was trying to draw on some
of those traditions of bexley
a lot of detail um
just to give that more of that cottage
feel to it the front porch which is
inviting
my thought was putting the main house on
the 50-foot setback
so it maintains the line of homes along
that
street where the porches project beyond
the 50-foot setback
so basically um is to give
give a house that you know look it's
looks like it's been there for
you know 75 80 90 100 years
um it's got an arts and crafts feel too
with the windows with
the clear glass on the bottom pane
and um three over three on the top or
two over two based on the
portion of the window you're gonna have
some
like i said the stone elements board and
batten elements
40-year dimensional shingles and
metal standing seam roof elements on the
front
there's a little in a little whimsical
oval window on the garage element
trying to keep the doors processed back
with some overhang
some brackets that kind of stand make
the doors recessed back a little bit
so i'll take any questions
i don't remember which side it was on
okay um i don't have any issue
really with the idea of you know
replacing this house
um my my concept
and it's really the cities uh as well is
that
whatever is being replaced is better
than what's there and i'm not just
talking about the quality of the
construction i'm talking about the
architecture
and the architecture doesn't mean new
versus old it doesn't mean
you know frumpy versus slick it really
has to do with
quality of the details uh details that
fit bexley
and that has to do with what ms boker
will talk about
um in her you know design consulting
review
of where's the floor plate in
relationship to the other houses
um where is the second floor plate in
relationship to other houses in your
immediate
vicinity what is the ridgeline in
relationship to the other houses
in the vicinity and then what are the
materials
in relationship to the other houses in
the vicinity so that it becomes part of
the neighborhood
and what i'm seeing here although i
don't have any problem with the
cottage feel or the board and batten um
i don't see that in this neighborhood i
also
am concerned about the height
and i think that i would i would
definitely vote against this project
if it was brought back to us looking
like what we're seeing on that
screen with that ridge being at over 36
feet
uh and not having any relationship to
the neighboring houses
i just don't see it you are going to be
asked to draw a
an accurate elevation that includes the
other houses that are adjacent to your
to this house the models that the model
views that i've seen of this house
i don't know if it's something on my
little tablet here
but they're all much more vertical than
what we're seeing here
and i would say that this whole design
needs to become
lower and more horizontal for me to have
any interest in voting yes you have two
you have two lots that are being
combined and if and this
and the the house across the street to
the east
is lo it's it's two stories
and it's got a low can you know sort of
larger footprint which you could do here
and giving you the scale of the
neighborhood
but right now my inclination on this
design is that it does not fit
this neighborhood it does not fit in
terms of the
the heights proportions and the
manufactured stone veneer in this
neighborhood is a
is a no-go in my book completely this
has to be real stone
the manufactured stone it does not fit
bestly and we're seeing more of it and i
wish it would just die
in baxley just like the box uh capitals
of columns
um and i'm i'm i'm i would i would not
uh go for an approval that looks you
know
uh more horizontal than the other images
that we saw
but i just don't i'm not reading it um
as being a house that fits this
neighborhood for those
for those reasons only um i totally
support the idea of
replacing but that design um
whatever's brought back to us next month
it has to show
relationship of floor plates with
neighboring houses
and uh it has to be realistic because
we've been
duped before on this board
can i respond to modern construction
these days
ua foot floor plates a lot of a lot of
homes were built 30 40 50 years ago
the homeowner is desiring a 10 foot per
square plate
and they're asking for a two-foot step
up in the master bedroom over the
main living areas you're already a
certain height
and once i had a 7-12 pitch to a front
to back pitch
it's hard for me to get away from a roof
that's
over 30 foot tall at the ridge right
which is why i was trying to
bring the scale down a little bit on the
front there are ways to do it i mean
we've seen it from other architects
where they're able to
increase the first floor ceiling height
and even the second floor ceiling height
and still maintain an overall ridge by
you know incorporating i mean here you
have two projecting
symmetrical forms that have gables they
don't have to be gables
um and then the ridge at the very top
you know it doesn't need to be that tall
i i'm i'm just i'm wary of these designs
that um that are reaching because
of a client's desire to have these
bigger spaces
but i've also seen architects who have
been able to work with that
and i i totally understand the desire
for that i totally do
i just think that we also are here in
bexley you know so there has to be a
balance
between you know what the client desires
as these spatial arrangements and the
spatial heights
and the character of the neighborhood
that you're moving into
there has to be a balance and right now
i'm not seeing it
do you see a strong i mean it's hard to
tell what the
character is exactly based on you have a
one-story ranch
to the left you've got a two-story
across the street
then you've got the colonial right down
one that's right kind of
so how did you feel to it so that you
know right so the cottage feel that
you're introducing
is i mean we don't have anything against
different styles actually is filled with
all of them
it really has to do with the
relationship in terms of
floor plates uh and if not floor plates
then window locations eaves
ridge heights you know the main floor
plate where's that main floor plate
you know we've been duped with ones that
were raised three feet off the ground or
four feet off the ground when all the
neighboring houses are one
okay and we're not i mean i know
this would be a two foot floor right so
i mean
when it comes back we just want to see
those relationships clearly shown
you know a beautiful rendering is great
but for us to
approve it and even that aerial is
beautiful okay but
i want us i want to see that elevation
and i want to i want for the record to
see
how everything's aligning from house to
house but in terms of the style no
problem i'm just
wary of the ridge heights and um the way
that the style is
is can can kind of overwhelm a
neighborhood
okay that's all
so um when i spoke earlier about the
demolition i wasn't trying to indicate
that i had a problem with the demolition
necessarily i was just pointing out that
it didn't seem that we had the materials
or the information required by the
statute
so you know if we could just be certain
when you come back
that that's addressed so that we we have
tools we need to get where you want to
you mean go oh i think i don't speak for
you but you were talking about materials
relevant to demolition yeah correct yeah
information about the demo yeah
so just it's not pre-judged
um you know definition demolition might
be totally appropriate
but until we have all the pieces as
required by the statute it's hard to
um make a decision on that or it's
impossible
and then on the design pieces
i would just agree with bill from mr
heyer
wholeheartedly that the the elevation
issues have been a real challenge and so
seeing the
the play the instead of yeah
the actual elevations tied to the other
buildings is going to be really
important
do you have building materials that you
wanted to present today to show more
in light of what was just been told this
is a manufactured stone product so
probably not
because it wouldn't be approved well
this this neighborhood stanbury
you know ardmore just has some of the
most beautiful
north shore stone indiana limestone i
mean
some of it might even be kansas
limestone it's just beautiful natural
material
and the problem with this manufactured
stone
in bexley i don't have a problem with it
you know in tartan or other places where
it might be used
is that it's so evident the difference
you can it just stands out so much
compared to the real stone
and so the character of bexley is
again it's this natural stone that's
that that's my i had clients that wanted
real stone they actually
showed me addresses of a house that was
manufactured
it's all about how you do that motor
joint and everything
so it's yeah i think it's it's
perception a lot of times it's a
perception
i just think it's i think it's
commentary when even builders call them
lick them
stones you know it just talks about the
quality of the material
what is the lifespan of a licking
stickum two inch stone versus a real
four-inch veneer right
mr scott
i would agree i'd like to see the
elevations comparison
of the streetscape because i think even
in this view
the second story windows seem to be
towering above the
obviously the one story which is fine
but even that two-story
uh to the right um i have i i actually
like the massing of the project and i
think i
agree with mr higher on the i don't have
any objections to the style
but i do object to the to the front
porch i don't
i don't think the front porch one i
think i feel it's too busy uh and i feel
like it's not
in character to the the kind of
traditions of bexley front porches
so i would i would suggest looking at
alternate ways to kind of simplify that
front porch
and bring more of that craftsman feel
and less
colonial you know less formal
architectural and and do a little bit
more of that craftsman style
and kind of simplify and make it a
little bit lighter it just feels really
heavy
especially in the renderings it's got a
really stark
like roof on that and it's like it's
almost
not very inviting to me and i see that
you have a
the column widths are different uh and
to me that
seems a little a little busy i i would i
would really be interested in more of a
simpler
kind of front porch on the front of that
and i get the the little details above
and i think that's kind of
characteristic to some of the forms and
additions that happen over the years in
bexley i like the garage
you know the unique nature of the garage
the board and baton
you know i think that's something that
we could talk about
but i get it and i understand and then
i'm also curious about
the four windows on the back of the
house and i know that there's a garage
and there's
upstairs is the master suite and there's
a bathroom and i mean i want
but there's there's just seems to be a
lack of any fenestration in the back of
the house on
this particular project so i don't know
if there was any opportunities to
to look at that um it seems a little
a little plain up for the back but other
than that i think you know
aside from in addition to the comments
or i agree with the comments on the
demolition
i i don't have uh an objection to that
i would want to make sure that the full
research is done for the demolition of
the existing house
but based on the photos i agree that
that seems like a huge undertaking to
actually
try to fix that um so i i wouldn't
probably object to if all of the other
paperwork fell in line
with the demolition and i think the
managing the scale of this house and
they and seeing that
in elevation will help us determine how
that is that would just be really
conscious of it
as you kind of re-look at this my my
main
focus for you to look at would be that
front porch
sure um from top down
the uh i don't find the
current house um
significant uh nor historic to the point
to
justify its uh continuation so i would
be in support of
replacing it with something uh that the
existing house is a little bit
out of proportion and obviously has some
serious conditions
i think uh regarding the new house i
think there's a lot to build on here i
think
um but in my mind the first
step is massing uh and if the massing is
right then we move on to the other
aspects of the house and
and um i think the massing
actually the the height to that roof
uh it's just my words it makes a turns
what i otherwise find is being a pretty
nicely
nice architectural vocabulary for the
facade
it turns it into like a facade
and and and it's like it's a piece in
front of
a very large mass and i think in that
mind it it doesn't it doesn't quite feel
like
it's authentic because the uh looming
behind it
is this large large roof when the uh
when the gables would otherwise so yeah
larry you're talking about this gable
form
[Music]
versus this thing back here right right
um i i think the architectural
vocabulary is
has got the right kind of materials and
working and i think that works
i would also say though uh that
it once it wants to be more than a
facade so
what elements of that vocabulary can be
taken
along the other elements of the house
certainly the north elevation
so again you don't want to reinforce the
fact that well this is really an
applique on the front of the house
and once we get around to the north side
specifically that's all gone there's
there's there's really no carryover
except for
a little overlap with the stone so i
think would be interesting to see
how the house can become more holistic
in that language and not just be so
front loaded
where everything is on the front and not
much else is on the
is on the sides but again i think it's a
good start
but the massing has to be detailed uh
we've got to deal with that
i think first and foremost my last
comment uh because we've had
you know we learn uh as a city as we go
through
these conditions and the other thing
that
has to be part of an application is a
landscape plan
because what we find is those two are
part and parcel of the same thing
because what we can't do is try to later
on try to solve issues by landscaping
uh which we can't so it needs to be a
package
so uh there will need to be an arc a
landscape architectural plan as part of
this new build
uh there'd have to be one anyway uh
because obviously the house is gonna
need landscaping
uh and just what we're saying in terms
of how we now deal with these cases
those need to be dealt with in parallel
now we deal with the house first and
figure out how to landscape it second so
those are my comments
okay and i'll go last and i will agree
with everything that was just that i
will not repeat it all
um except that for me that front porch
really is way too fussy and if it
is a true craftsman i would say just
stick to true craftsman and try to get a
little closer to
to what that looks available again
if you want to you want if we really
wanted to fit in with the existing
bestly houses um you know we would have
windows on
on all facades so i agree
okay yep does that give you enough so
that you feel like
when you come back that you can make
adjustments and
yep absolutely okay is there anyone in
the audience that wants to speak
um on this application uh withstanding
one if not one additional comment and
if if if for the record if not for other
thing
um this is a little little goofy but
my grandson plays golf and so i follow
him on all those golf things
so i've seen a million houses i mean a
million ounces
wedgewood and all over the place and
this house
in wedgwood would probably be just great
because all about the facade talking
about the
monumental size because all the other
houses are monumental and
go on and it would fit perfectly but the
problem is this is
a scaled community that's just different
than that
and we can't take a house that would fit
there and automatically assume it's
going to fit in bexley
it just doesn't work and as difficult as
that is
on on applicants and saying i want a
house like that guy over there in
wedgwood
that's just not something we're able to
really do well architects like
challenges this is a challenge
i want to do i do want to say that even
though we had i think there's some
technical
difficulties with either the screen
grabs or the submittal so i would make
sure you
check your pdf for something as you
before you submit i do appreciate jpeg
file i don't know why yeah it's
i know and there's no solutions but i do
appreciate the effort that went into
putting that
even though we got the drawings late uh
they're thorough enough that
i'm able to kind of flip through them
and see them we can read it we can read
everything
yeah i do like the quality and the level
of the presentation so thank you
and there i don't know why that happens
occasionally
but given two weeks submission time
i get the fits but this is the section
this is how we saw the house yeah
i can see why you can see it straight
away and again i can i
can you know i can pull it up but it's
hard but that that's just
it looks really tall and that could have
influenced some of where it's coming
we still feels tall in the drawings but
sure
but i in the meantime i did go back to
the city's website
you could see me struggling over here
and pull off the accurate drawings so
if you are looking at the screen instead
of your
knowledge it helps
yeah yeah it's all yeah i mean on yours
you're not going to be able to pull this
up
this these are just from the city's
website but that's just you know that's
what happens when things get done the
same day
so okay so in order for this to keep
moving um
do you have what you need to go to to
the other board to see if you can get
your lot split
or because at this point we would ask
you to come back
next month with your changes to your
plans um
this could proceed regardless of the lot
split yeah
those are two separate applications okay
yeah i mean this whole design is just
contingent on that one law so it's not
like we're trying to
hold on the other one it's a separate
thing i guess my point is
keep working on that keep working with
us if you're okay coming back next month
we'll take a look at it again and
hopefully we're much closer great all
right thank you very much
you win a table to a certain day yeah so
you just need to request a table
and then we'll take it to next month
unless you need longer
it's up to you um
can i follow up with you on that well
the the thing is if
legally well we have a journey here but
um i'm gonna
does the next meeting literally is it a
month from today
a month from now and if we yeah i should
we
i'll come back with the landscape plan
too we're in good shape
all right then the only additional thing
is the demolition
um uh criteria and just so
just i can talk you through it outside
of this forum but
um it's been done in all different ways
which is why i don't i don't really have
a way to a template for you
sometimes we just have a representative
like an attorney
for the applicant come up and do a
presentation verbally
sometimes people send in slides some
people times people get a professional
opinion off for the historic
preservation
may not be necessary now if we don't
have that letter
by next month is it kind of a moot point
for the board do you
need that letter to start with yeah i i
don't do the next second or
that as an issue than it needs to be
yeah that's a very simple thing
okay what i'm saying is if if it's five
days before i'm going to
present and we're still working on the
letter we're still good
okay
so i make a motion that would this be
tabled until august 12th
[Music]
second second
i'm stresser yes mr higher yes mr scott
yes mr hellman yes
yes thank you sir thank you thank you
applicants
we will see you back next month
okay our last application is arv
21-48 the address is 436 south columbia
the applicant is nicole franz the owner
is charlie
charles heyer and the request is for
solar panel
to be added on the garage
okay this application um is before the
board because technically according to
our ordinances any front-facing
edition of solar panels needs to come
before the board
for aesthetic review um i i almost felt
pretty strongly that we probably could
have just done this
internally but um technically we need to
come here
so um this is the uh
this home is on the street that you are
all quite familiar with it is next to
the
new build the 424 and i say that only to
position it in terms of
um the size of this property in the
house
and the garage is compared to the
adjacent properties you really don't the
garage is diminutive i mean it's down
far um it's much lower elevation
it's very far back um from a staff
perspective i have absolutely no problem
at all
with these solar panels being on this
garage they just
it needed to be reviewed here because um
it technically
faces the street right do you have to
add to that
and the fact that uh i think there was
some clearing of
some vegetation that was off to the the
neighbors to the north south property
which would have screened it right but
it's not there any longer so if you look
at the
yeah and you can see this photo here
that shows ways yeah
this is accurate it's the view this is
and i might add that uh the jake
uh from uh the
general contractor that is gonna install
this is on the telephone
listening to all of this and i guess
could be
tuned in here so he can speak and you
can speak to him
i think technically but if not
out here i'm here to answer questions
that i can
we had a conversation earlier and i
shared with mr heyer that typically the
portal asked about
the materials and he said he had a
conversation with regarding this
if there's any shiny materials used
the gentleman who was on the telephone
listening
texted me back it's black on black and
non-reflective
yeah i'm sorry but i don't think we can
get him
he can hear us but i'm not sure i i'm
not sure i even want to attempt
to get to change all the settings um we
kind of have been told that we need to
have everybody here that wants to
testify
but i don't think it's necessary i'm i'm
and everyone can
pull up all the spec sheets i've done a
thorough
job reading through there and i'm sure
the board members have too but it is
exactly what i look for
in a solar panel that um would not have
to come to the board that i would
approve
it blends into the roof it's black on
black
which means it doesn't you know appear
very grid with the grids to be seen
because
it matches all the requirements that i
look for it's simply here
um it has a low profile to the roof but
yet
enough that ice and water can flow
through
i'm perfectly okay with it staff wise we
have to open it up for any comments from
the board but it to me it's simply here
because
it's front-facing okay let's go quickly
mr hellman do you have any questions uh
no but i'm curious what is the width
off the roof i'm looking for a stack i
just saw it
i don't know i don't ever have these
memorized but
um i see dimensions and all but i'm i
was looking for the
yeah it looks like a pretty high-tech
panel yeah
i i'd rather you here's the okay
here's the um the section
knowing where we're at with knowing
where we're at with solar panels uh you
know all black
low profile about as good as we're going
to get
mr sky yeah i have no problem looking at
the photo of down the driveway
looking at the back garage it's
going to be extremely hidden you have a
fairly robust house next door that's
going to hide it
the house your your house is charming uh
it's not going to be an impact on that
at all you have a beautiful tree in the
front yard
the window that you can look back to
that is very narrow i mean you're
walking down the street or driving
i mean it's about four or five seconds
and you won't actually see
that as soon as your eyes adjust from
the white house i think that's kind of
giving people no comment
um i am in support of this i in fact i
think
it was another house on columbia
there was a little precedent for another
garage where we approved solar panels on
the front that was
set far back so we do have precedent for
this
and uh i have no issue with it
i too have no issue it's so far away
from the street it's i think
it's great nice job
do we have findings of fact oh do i have
anyone in the neighborhood in the
audience that wants to speak
decision of the board for application
number arb-21-48
property located at 436 south columbia
the board finds that a certificate of
appropriation should be issued
for the solar panels proposed on the
house and
roof which are architecture compatible
with the existing structure it should be
approved as submitted
so some window so moved second
yes yes mr scott
yes mr hammond yes adam turner yes
thank you thank you thank you madam
chair i request to be recused so i can
make the presentation
okay with that can i do the introduction
absolutely um we are going to take about
15 minutes
or whatever bill would like but don't
let the 26 slides
make you nervous that you're going to be
here until 10 but what um
i paired it way down wait oh yeah i have
i have the same no i mean i'm those
those 27
is pared down yeah okay um
yeah the design guidelines are going to
be
five minutes per slide let's do the math
let me start
um by just kind of briefly introducing
this for those
new members who don't know what i'm
talking about and anybody
else but i think everyone else in this
room is very familiar with um this
project
that has become um quite elongated from
coven and we're back on track now we can
meet in person and we can
roll up our sleeves and dig in the city
um
as part of my job i have been working on
a document um that will it's a bexley
design
guidelines which is kind of coupled with
the historic preservation well it's very
coupled with the historic preservation
um work group that has been looking at
and studying um bexley precedence and
styles and
all kinds of things that i'm going to
give it to to mr heyer to talk about
um and i've done a verb a word documents
not in word it's an indesign
a document that we're going to be
inserting all these images that
mr heyer as now a consultant to the city
has been creating to provide a really
great guide for our residents
for our architects builders everyone as
a teaching tool
a guideline for for
new designs for renovations additions
and
to understand what's currently existing
in bexley
um i i don't want to talk anymore i want
to give it to bill
all this is today it's actually a lot
and it's great but all we're doing today
is giving you an overview of what mr
heyer
bill has been working on for this
project and do you want to talk about a
little about the
schedule for how this is going to work
because it goes to the public more than
just
here right you have the schedule in
front of me yeah send out the dates
and we'll put we'll have them posted on
the city's website too
but we are going to do some public um
open forums for this
process as well um i can't remember that
with the danger
and then in the end it has to be
approved by city council it does have to
be approved by city council
as a document it's not a codified
ordinance it's design guidelines
once it is approved by city council we
anticipate and i'm working on stam
metcalf
do i say same right yeah my cat who is
our um young
tech techie guy i'm the old techie
person
so he's going to help me make sure that
all the work i've done
in indesign um
actually translates to an uploadable
document
that is accessible on our website and
that's a working document so we can
continue to add images and to continue
to change
feedback and um correlation with
ordinances as we go does that yeah is
that a good explanation
um the history of this is a lot of it
has come from
it really came out it's been talked
about for a really long time
but it came out it it came out of the
work of the historic preservation group
too that
they got together for a long time um
mr um
i'm losing names hellman larry can i
just call you first things
we have a couple members stacy yeah
yeah we're not going to open it up for
discussion but we have a lot of members
um that are all over the place and these
and um staff be that public and
we have this is an outgrowth of it but
part
part and parcel of understanding our
housing stock here
is that enough yep sure
so i'm going to pull up the pdf which is
um
you just tell me when to turn pages okay
um
so these design guidelines i mean my
firm was
contracted with the city to come
and put together the design guidelines
in the process
we also working with the historic
preservation working group which i'm on
and mr helman in particular helped
us to really focus in on identifying
uh the neighborhoods of bexley so this
map
is a collaboration it's a collaborative
effort
of a few of us who are really trying to
pinpoint the character of bexley
and how it is subdivided and we felt
pretty
good i mean mr hellman has great
historical knowledge of bexley
and these neighborhoods you can see that
they all have different names
that are listed i actually blew them up
on the right there so you could see the
names
in more detail if you go to a google map
you'll see these names
for those different areas but what we
did was we
actually show that there's a different
character to each of these neighborhoods
and that's not necessarily
an architectural character difference in
detail on the houses or anything it
could have to do with the fact that it's
a boulevard street versus a regular
street
the setbacks some of the pink divisions
that you see here are actually
special character zones so we have the
porches of
you know south euclair we've got
what we call the merkel stoneworks which
is this neighborhood up in here
which is a fascinating neighborhood of
nothing but stone houses
um i'm sorry that's up here and then we
have this is the 1950s ardmore
neighborhood
which has its own special character of
these low ranch
houses that are stucco and stone and i
think this is really going to be helpful
for
arb in particular because your knowledge
of what these neighborhoods are and
their character will play
i think should play a huge role in how
you are reviewing
you know demos and new builds for these
particular
areas um so this is this is
one aspect of the design guidelines is
actually setting up these
these uh these character zones we'll
call them okay
and so at the top you can see that we
list the
those neighborhoods which do map uh do
match the historical
names for these different zones um and
then we have the special character zones
which are down here
you'll notice that we did not include
main street we do not include
the zone of commercial on north um
cassidy we do not include livingston you
know
at the commercial district zone so and
we do not include capital
okay so um all of those areas are
are reviewed there's a main street
guidelines you know instead of
you know for review but this is
primarily about neighborhood
characteristics we also did not include
montrose you can see that here
cassingham all of that they're sort of
independent
so this is a starting point but larry
was a great help in helping us to
release that if you go to the next page
can i just just because this will be the
only chance we have a chance to go
through it so
uh i a five seconds on history so
a and b but our development started uh
in the west and we went east it started
with bullet park the big area mostly
architecturally designed houses
individually constructed houses
and then there was a little village of
pleasant ridge which was b
uh those two obviously met in the middle
then as you move further eastward
you uh alley stopped the cassidy uh
there were no allies but they started
then when you were east of cassidy
and then you have basically builder
houses where uh the ardmore east the
north and south and then you have the
boulevard district which came off of
maine
which also was mostly architecturally
designed individual houses
all these things are important when we
understand uh what we're looking at
meanwhile down south area c that almost
started from the south
moving northward and at that point in
time south of livingston was a park it
was big open space
so that was kind of livingston was a
country road so that was kind of a nice
neat way to go but the lots were smaller
for some reason the decision there
would make the lots 40 feet wide for
ardmore and most of that it was 60
feet wide uh they varied all over the
place in the boulevard district
uh and then lastly the area to the far
north really took on the character of
east columbus there's an area north of
the railroad tracks called east columbus
it was built around
the raric uh boston making uh railroad
cars and all those big warehouse stuff
and so they were factory working areas
so as bexley grew
all direction but certainly to the north
it got into smaller lots
uh that were in effect about all you
could sell
really at that point in time for that
area so that's just a quick little
thumbnail
but there's a source of history and that
history guides the architecture at each
one of those zones
so you know on this in this board we are
constantly grappling with you know the
character of a street
and now this will give us that meat that
will give this is what we can anchor
ourselves on
is there is a special character to each
of these zones
bexley is is diverse in its architecture
there are but there are a lot of
commonalities which you're going to see
in the coming documents so let's move on
to the next one
this i just zoom in on south bexley in
particular so we have you know
south euclaire uh or just euclair
and then you have you know havenwood and
then you've got
you know a lot of these tutors that are
over here we're
calling them uh that this is like a
tudor zone it's very special
if you drive around there you know we
had to actually drive block by block and
identify them but that's
what we're aiming to do this hopefully
this will become interactive at some
point
and you can click on one of these
special zones and it'll take you to
sheets like the next one
which shows you the character of
different neighborhoods so this
is um bexley park rudolph's fairwood
bexley
highlands now this is the boulevard zone
that is
sherwood you know and north and going
from gould over to drexel
or not quite to drexel but what we're
trying to do is show you
that there's a boulevard that this
houses have a particular character
that they are a certain distance from
the street that they have detached
garages sometimes on
alleys sometimes not you see and we try
to mix up the
the character of the houses if we move
to the and then there'll be lots of text
to describe that on here
we also go zoom in on an individual lot
and we show those relationships
we show street sections which are
relationships of trees houses garages
sidewalks alleys streets and what we've
tried to do
is to show the character of what we
think will be mature trees
in those locations you'll notice that
some streets
have ornamental trees on property some
of them have ornamental trees you know
in the median
but that there is a certain size for
those trees at maturity so that's the
kind of detail we get into
on this next oh you'll notice also that
we are indicating floor plates and
ridge heights and things like that next
and then we'll have our own photos put
in here but we have
an image where we show the street and
we'll show the street section so you can
understand
and applicants residents can understand
the special character
for their for their zone for their for
their neighborhood next
and then we get into the different
styles and we show the relationships
that you know come up all the time
in arb where we're showing relative
relationships of second floor eave
height ridge height
chimneys even with modern houses you
know we still have
this relationship that um is continuous
and then this is one of my favorites
this is a
what to do and what not to do so we have
a sort of post-modern you know new build
okay in the neighbor in the context of a
street
showing average ridge heights average
eave heights and so on and how this fits
in
it's not an old style it's not you know
super modern it's just something that we
wanted to show as
an example of how you do something with
windows
with floor plates with ridges the next
one is more of a
you know 1940s frank lloyd wright let me
go back up to that one for a second oh
sorry
and you know so yeah you can do a modern
house and it still fits bexley right
because we're maintaining eve heights
ridge heights and so on windows scale
even though these are modern you know
design windows instead of your
traditional
you know six over one or six over six
and then we show this one at the end
which is what to avoid you do not burn
up the earth
so that your floor plate is three feet
above your neighbors you do not build up
your ridges so that you are six feet
above your neighbors
you do not have incongruent architecture
where you can't make out where the front
entryway is
and we have these little notes that kind
of diagram what to avoid
uh next
here's here's what here's what to avoid
on an addition so when we get into the
character of a house
you know this original house was a nice
colonial right
but somebody wants to put on an addition
that meets their current family
lifestyle
and so they do something like this and
that's what we're trying to show that
you cannot do
you know lining directly against an
existing house having your new addition
ridge go above the existing house
and having this thing basically swallow
um the point is
is that you know and we'll show
obviously what's good to do
as well but these are examples of
avoiding
situations next and then we get into
the character of individual
neighborhoods and houses so
we will call out details for particular
neighborhoods
this is sheridan of course and this is
bexley park
but what we're doing here is we will
show you relationships
of the different parts symmetry versus
some symmetry
style of window proportion of windows
overhangs porches
and the gray area the beige areas will
actually lead you to
a detail and then we'll have information
about that style
and about that kind of character of the
house
next we get into how to properly do an
eve
okay this is a traditional eve condition
that we are
sorely missing in new designs that come
to us
all we have to do is point them to this
detail and say you know what
we're not going to give you dimensions
but we will give you proportions of how
this works we're going to show you how
the rake works against the eve
we'll even show you a 3d view so you can
understand how that works
go to the next image and we'll show you
what to avoid
you know this kind of stuff is lazy it's
not
bexley you know just doing a box eve
like this
is you know unfortunately we're seeing a
lot of it in bexley and it just
has no character for bexley so we just
say avoid and we talk about why
you know and what to avoid so you don't
get into that situation next
we also are showing character of
multiple details throughout bexley so
we will have pages that are nothing but
windows and showing you
quality windows whether they're diamond
and leaded or whether they're you know
newer windows or storm window it doesn't
matter we're trying to show you what it
means to have a quality window in bexley
and then if you don't have this then
you're probably on the wrong track
next we show those windows in detail so
we
you know when we talk about six over one
residents and applicants will understand
what we're talking about this is a
cottage window
where you have a six over nine uh this
is a typical window invexley craftsman
where you have a six over one
proportions of sashes aligning for your
you know how your trim is supposed to
work that fits speckly character and
there's different examples of this you
can see there are differences
in each of these go to the next one uh
shutters how you do a proper shutter
um you don't just buy this aluminum
thing and and screw it onto your wall no
we want to see
we want to encourage residents to have
real shutters and even if they're not
real to at least
you know detail them the way that they
look like this here's an example of a
craftsman or bungalow
window split which is acceptable in
bexley
next dormers
you know showing them how they actually
how those details actually work
and also you know we're also giving them
language you know we're teaching them
the language of what these things are
you know how this works you know when we
talk about an eve a raking eve or we
talk about a shed roof or we talk about
you know a sloping sill or an apron for
a window
now they're gonna know because they'll
be able to see this in the design
guidelines
next how to do a proper wall dormer
okay where it pops through from the wall
below into the roof this is a
complicated detail
that is all over bexley and i think
builders and architects
hopefully will appreciate this kind of
detail for them to start from
next what to avoid tiny window too many
lights huge dormer
box eaves nastiness die
you know picture friend you know picture
framing your exterior windows
die that is not a bexley character
that is not and then having windows with
no muntins in them
when it's trying to foe a colonial so
there's all kinds of things
and we have a lot more of these avoids
and goods that are in the pac
and the design guideline sketches this
is just an overview
then we go to things like veneer how you
work with um natural stone
in bexley what are some great examples
and these are from all over from south
bexley
to you know central to north
different neighborhoods you can see how
the natural stone is used
and this should be encouragement for and
we'll have leaders on these to
you know to imply coining you know at
the corner so they understand what that
means and what a lintel means an arch
lentil and so on
next uh slate roofs
how slate is to be done and how if it's
to be replaced it should be done
so i know karen has some other details
that she'll have for slate but
this is really just showing you the
beauty of slate okay
here's what we call a graduated eve
where it starts off with
very little exposure of the slate and
then works its way into a larger
exposure
this is a classic detail from europe
that bexley you know the designers use
then you have different colors of slate
using non-dormers so in any case we were
just giving an overview for
residents because they probably won't
drive all around bexley to see this we
we did that for them next porches
how you do porches properly different
styles you know right now we're kind of
concentrated on columns
but you can see here a nice thick stone
bungalow
with with stone piers that are heavy
we've got more
kind of colonial stuff and then some
simple tuscan
details double columns and then on the
next pages
we actually give go to the next page and
you can see
the first thing we do is we start from
the beginning and we will show them
where all this comes from
and what it means and how you how these
things work
so to get the language tuscan doric
ionic corinthian composite yeah
these are classical and but there's a
lot of this in bexley and if a builder
is going to do it right they have to go
back to the basics
next how to
create intercolumniation the distance
between your columns when you need to
double them
in order to create that view vision of a
strong
supported porch what to align things
with
what not to find things with the edge of
your porch whatever the material
will never align with your finished face
of eve because you have a column with
which has a base
and you have a column and you have an
apron detail here this
never aligns with that in terms of this
kind of architecture
modern architecture where we could
that's a different animal next
and then here's things to avoid you know
we don't want the beam
smooshing down on this poor piddly
column this is not a bexley detail this
is you know a classic bexley detail
where the where the beam is actually
aligned with the neck and the
and the top of the shaft and so they can
understand this there's lots of
variations on this
but the rule is general you know that
the beam face aligns with
the the column phase below and the the
capital projects
next here's another composite of the
boxy
if the the plane you know whatever this
is
and then this you know box capital these
are all lazy details that do not belong
bexley
so we're saying avoid next
um then i just wanted to end with this
rendering we did of havenwood
so we show all the houses we show all
the trees we did a street section
through havenwood
and it's just i don't know it's a nice
little image to finish with because
it just talks about the character of
bexley you know the architecture
of the details the the massing um
the urban you know condition and the
trees
and this is havenwood is a great example
of what bexley is all about
so those pages are just a taste we have
tons more
and we're hoping that eventually here
soon we'll be able to put all that
together with text
for your you know for everybody's review
again
a couple of thoughts on this oh i'm
sorry go ahead
you did the same thing with the
commercial buildings
one thing at a time we had a long time
laughing to get filled
already main street guidelines which
speaks right
to facades and how they work together
well in all seriousness we plan on that
but we had to start something
and i'm i don't i think all of you just
sat through a meeting where you can see
how much this would have helped me and i
hate to say it but it's me and kathy
that need this more than anybody
because you know we look it up we have
all those books what's the book that we
use the
good house i can't remember what it's
called we have them all with little
you know tabs that we can show people
but no one's specific to bethlehem
it's just gonna be amazing for us
[Music]
uh
yeah i mean so there are two other
categories for consideration one is
commercial
and one is civic okay so sid when i say
civic i'm talking about
we don't have a town hall anymore but
our city hall but we do have
religious architecture we have the
university
and so you know academic buildings which
would include the schools
the synagogues the churches to at least
have a description of the character
of those that that typology in
architecture would be very important
and there again you're showing
streetscape you're showing trees you're
showing
the character of details um
parking yeah all of that so that's
that's
uh another but it has been talked about
so that's that's
that's coming
right right so yeah we're again we're
not trying to lock people into a style
what we're trying to do is is give them
you know if you're going to work in this
neighborhood here's what this
neighborhood is
here's what you're common what's common
to see in this neighborhood
and here's how you do those details and
do them beautifully
you know if you decide that you want to
move away from that
there are parameters for proportion of
windows for
you know types of materials no matter
what style you're using
somehow you can't just this this is
giving them something to bring them in
and say if you're going to work in this
neighborhood
even if you have a different style you
have to look at
and follow some of these other things
that are here because that's what gives
the neighborhood its character
but the individual can gain information
and
understanding and say oh sure
i think that's valuable yeah i mean we
have a we have a sheet in our
booklet that's all chimneys all the
different great chimneys and decks are
not but not the bad ones but
they're all the beautiful ones and we
zoom in on them
so that you know people could get
inspired say i really like that tune
that's what i want on my house and then
hopefully their architect knows how to
put it all together
to be able to see something visually i
love how you put all
of the landscaping in there too
well trees yeah my step my staff that
was the first thing i said to them was
they're
you have to show the trees all the trees
not just street trees but
trees on property you know even things
like fences
that um you know go in between houses in
some cases
you've tailored this bag
my sense is
to sell this
to other communities around the nation
we've already talked about that
no i think that's that i mean the amount
of work
that goes into something like this and
the quality of the drawing wow
nice yeah thanks uh and i can't wait i
really am like really excited to see the
280 page
or more i'm excited
um but i agree i think this one is going
to be an
amazing asset for not only our this
board but the city of bexley
and the people that live here um but
also
it you know it's gonna it based on what
i'm seeing because i have seen many many
of these through different cities
throughout the country
uh and even just from what i'm seeing
here this is
way beyond uh just the quality of the
thinking and
the presentation so it heads off to the
whole team especially your staff and
it's like i'm really
excited about this but i think it's
going to be one of these
documents that will be looked at and
copied and mimicked or sold
right to many other cities that are
trying to really kind of
you know reign in that kind of rogue
construction and not sure how to do that
or
would never be able to have to take this
undertaking so
good job i think your examples of bad is
just
as valuable as your example yes i think
so many people don't
understand the difference and when you
show them side by side
it's really helpful notice we say avoid
not bad
yeah i think the um obviously
it needs to die yeah i said it three
times tonight
so my my my last comment about all this
and karen and i have talked about this
ad nauseam is that um not only are you
um giving the residents of bexley
you know the tools to understand the
language of
architecture so when they come before
this board they know what they're
talking about when they meet with their
architect
they can relate to them on that level
but also
i i think that showing them good
examples of stone and
good examples of windows and good
examples of shutters
will encourage them to actually go for
the good stuff and because i think a lot
of times when they're
when they're um when they buy a lot and
the builder comes along and says you
need to replace all these windows
here are the three vinyl windows that
you can replace them with and now
they're going to say no i
you know that's i want this window look
at this the design guidelines look at
that beautiful window can you do that
for me
we have a culture on this board and we
have a culture and community
of the existence of architectural review
30 years ago that was not only an alien
it was a threat yes
step forward
i just don't think sometimes homeowners
are are
educated enough to understand that
you know you can spend a little bit more
to have much higher quality and you just
be able to know it and i think that's
what this document starts yeah
absolutely
would you please just get a replacement
yeah i can't i can't emphasize enough
how much this is going to help
to your point exactly to things that you
guys never see
because when somebody comes to replace
windows they don't come to you they just
come to me
and i don't have that that i do it
because i pull it from all different
places but
they don't have i don't have that
proactive tool
like this to show them this is what you
can do instead of just replacing exactly
and even tagging links on our
applications to the website
exactly yeah yeah i think um
i think it's a fabulous start i think a
couple things you want to get some
consideration too
i would think i would suggest because
you know they're different audiences for
this stuff
uh there's a professional audience which
is going to get this in the new york
minute there are people that have
historic houses that will say
yeah i get this um there are members of
council will be in different spots
because they're not going to fully
wonder whether or how far we've gone
right over the edge uh so we've got to
be careful on that
but but to me one of the important
audiences is obviously owners
and so it would be great if we could see
a
here is a here are the seven basic steps
to owner decisions
as you move through specifically like in
addition
you know massing and sighting uh
alignment and trim
when some so that they're so that they
can see
broken out what are the separate
decision parts that are made before you
get to an ensemble
then they can reference back and say oh
yeah i got to get my masking and i see
what that's
and that's exactly what we're doing in
fact karen has the outline for that
already where that's all detailed in
order
of how this works yeah i think that's
key and then that exa and the other
thing this is just political on
on some of the photos and the examples
uh
there ought to be some houses that are
all-american plain jane
houses yeah uh so that it's not always
about the elite house that has the
stone and the slate and you know and all
the faces and we've tried to mix it up
for instance if you look at this image
i can tell you that these houses are
taken they're not exact replicas of
houses that are investing
they have some characteristics you
probably can all
guess where let's see which one this one
is located and this one right
yeah um but there you know what we did
was we kind of
we we took the details transformed them
a little bit so that you can see that
right you know the relationship like
this one's in south bexley
but we put an addition on the side and
this one is uh on drexel but we
modified it uh this one i believe is on
ardmore i mean there's
there's all kinds of stuff going on here
and the other thing might think about
it it is it is where we have a
uniform street is one condition but we
have a heck of a lot of streets to where
the condition varies and then how do we
come to grips with that regarding
an infill or something now you know that
said
i and i may be wrong about this but the
number of
potential lots available for new builds
i think is decreasing i think we're
gonna i think that's i
i i just you know colombia they're about
all spent out
uh there's a handful here and there uh
we'll see
we'll see whether that continues but uh
but there's always the tear down
there's always no i mean that's what i
mean it'll be the tear downs
and then but the teardowns are always
gonna be the fit issue
that's where we're going to have the
problem with the ups and downs and
yeah and how we handle them but that's
always going to be the case i mean
we're not going to show a streetscape in
this where we've got a you know a ranch
house and then you know
a stumbly little stone stone house and
then
some new house that's too tall because
those are
this is you know if we're looking at
this as a model then we we know how to
create that we'll know how to create
that balance
and so i think so will the the builders
or the owners at least will
yeah i mean look at look at broad street
the new build was next to exactly that
the little red brick ranch and the house
you know and you know there you are with
the up and down
uh and you have to figure out what does
compatibility mean
in that kind of an array and i think the
text in here is going to be helpful for
that because
yeah not you know in neighborhoods
particularly in like the ardmore 1950s
neighborhood
you know we're going to have comments
about the massing of houses the heights
of houses so
there's you know the visuals are
important but reading through and
finding some of the
exceptions to the rule is going to be
important we might even have little
vignettes that kind of show
an example of the exception to the rule
before i now shut up
but i think we also need to revisit uh
the height requirement for single-family
housing well i'm interested in this
floor plate study he's doing as well i
mean are you
are you getting different heights within
the same block or is it all a matter of
based on the grade they change with the
grade they do sometimes like pleasant
ridge you know you'll find a lot of
great change
uh pleasant ridge was a really
interesting
uh neighborhood to to analyze and i
remember mr bardwell you know
talking about the character down there
and we we've been outlining that i
didn't show a lot of it tonight but
you'll find the great changes
dramatically along pleasant ridge
believe it or not
and so you have to be careful about you
know
is it one house next to another where
one is raised up because of that grade
and one is low
because it's because of existing grade
conditions
right but that's rare it's really rare
like even in south bexley you'll find
that from one street to another you
might have a build up
like one street like montrose will have
a build up on one side of the street the
other side is flat
um the then then you get more into the
massing of how house relate how the
houses relate next to each other
but we found that it's pretty consistent
you know across bexley that if you're on
north drexel if you're on
ardmore if you're on south castingham
that
the floor plates the first floor plates
are
you know the number of steps it takes to
get into that house is pretty much the
same
it's one or it's yeah like on drexel it
can be one or two or
three um but usually two
and if you go street by street you know
that'll be in the text too is that
in this neighborhood it's or on this
street it's normal
to see three steps up into the first
floor and
the diagram will show that and there's
some there's some variation but you know
when you have
a whole street where you have two steps
up and then somebody decides they're
going to make their entryway six steps
up
i mean it just that's not the character
of the neighborhood anymore and we've
seen some of that
i i think that um unless anybody has
other things they would really like to
talk about i think we should talk about
we have a workshop that we can just
talk about this because we haven't had a
workshop lately and we haven't had
anything
yeah so how about if i send out tomorrow
a doodle and do the poll and we'll do a
workshop
in the next week or whenever we can get
it together and this will just be what
we talk about an informal discussion
yeah and i can show my other 47. is that
okay they just
that's a big smile on your face
and they're always public it's just it's
or you know it just
it just gives us an opportunity um you
know to focus
i also wanted to just like this is the
table of contents in in the
in design i'm i'm not going through this
in great detail i just want you to see
um
i know that larry's seen this a couple
people
in this room have really seen it and so
just to give you the complexity of what
we're working with
we're also going to put in these kind of
these are these are my not so pretty
drawings
like bills but you know we really want
to get all these things in one document
in a concise way that people you guys
have all seen this before
and for those who haven't this is these
are the
lot studies of house heights sizes
ground cover garages i did these when we
did the garage ordinance rewrite but
just to give you an idea we're going to
intermix all this so that we really can
give
a big working tool and it's all
electronic so it's not a matter of
trying to find the pages
it's it's going to be easy to click and
find things
so i don't want to talk about any of
this you guys have seen this but i just
i want to get an idea of how it all fits
together
yeah this this has a lot to speak to the
two-dimensional needs to show
exactly and it all has to fit together
um and it's all important
and bill's drawings are unbelievable and
it is
we took for granted how much you have to
be in person to do this kind of work
together
cool so we're on it great all right
thanks
onward and upwards
okay do you have anything else journey
a journey so