is for uh anyone in the public wishes to
comment on things that are not on the
agenda tonight so if there's anyone here
that wishes to
comment on anything in the public this
is the opportunity
seeing none we will close public comment
uh move on to approval of minutes
uh ms rose what's the date of the
minutes that we're approving
that would be the june
24th florida zoning plan june 24th
uh board of zoning planning uh anyone on
the board minutes
do i hear a motion to approve the
minutes
i second that uh all in favor of
approving the minutes please say aye
aye aye all opposed say no
let the minutes reflect that it was
approved unanimously
um section five is the staff report
i'll just read that as well as we go
through perfect um i don't see any old
business
or is there old business i just simply
want to announce that
we have a forum of members present so
any applicant who has a case on the
agenda you would need four votes
in favor to get your application
approved you have the option
to table should you like to do that and
i just wanted to make all that foreign
perfect all right um let's move into new
business
uh first item on the agenda uh
bzap 21-29 this is for
422 north parkview uh is the applicant
here tonight
if anyone's uh wishes to speak if you
come forward be sworn in
[Music]
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes yes
and we now have miss mitchell present so
let the
let the record reflect that ms mitchell
is here
um is there any any uh background on
this
uh yes so the applicant is seeking a
variance from mexico section 1264.02 c
which states that decorative landscape
walls and fences
which exceed 24 inches in height above
the ground level but not more than 42
inches about
above ground level may be allowed with a
special permit from the border zoning
plan
the applicant is requesting to install
an ornamental steel fence
that is five feet in height along the
front west property line parallel to
south
parkview and a security gate at both
driveway entrances
being that this exceeds the 42 inches
need for a
variance as opposed to a special permit
in the criteria that the board needs to
review in
looking at this case um there are
certain things that are taken into
consideration
regarding this code so
being its limited defenses of 24 inches
height above ground level but not more
than 42 inches
see the proposed decorative landscape
waller fence is compatible with other
properties in the neighborhood
and i would say that there are a few
other similar fences located along north
parkview
similar to this some of them even higher
than what's proposed
defense does exceed the maximum 42
inches and is proposed if i fit in
height
there are proposed columns as well
i believe those are 66 inches
and another fences in the area also have
stone columns that
do exceed the standard heights of those
fences
the style of the fence is compatible
with with the neighborhood
and the wrought iron look of the fence
is also compatible
the 50 transparency requirement has been
met
and the lot exhibits unique
characteristics that supports
the increase in the fence height it
being made similar to other
properties in the area the applicant is
seeking this variance for security
concerns
uh staff finds that this interior lot is
located in the east side of the parkview
there
is slight bend in the portion of north
parkview and the greats also vary
the owner of the property is interested
in the additional security
defense would provide for the home that
is not easily visible from the street
so the next picture shows
up standing in parkview looking south
that's the northern
entrance you can see the existing
landscape and the next picture shows
standing to the south of the property
looking north and you can kind of see
the house which is tucked back
beyond the landscape so the fence meets
the criterion that it's decorative
iron style has the minimum 50
transparency and the height
is not out of character for the
neighborhood staff would recommend that
if the board finds granting of bearings
appropriate they should be aware that
the landscape plan was not submitted
based on the fact that they are planning
to locate the fence within the existing
landscape
and may want to have our landscape
consultant follow up to verify that it
is adequate
got it great thank you if you go ahead
and just present
what you want to do and anything else
let me try across the front of our
property is all
trees and elaborate uh shrubbery
and we're going to put the fence through
the middle of the shrubbery which is 20
feet high it's five feet
um as a deterrent uh it can't even
really be seen
through there it's only going to be seen
really on the ends of the shrubbery
where the
columns are then the gates than the
other end and then it goes straight back
gotcha and uh i think the pictures were
pretty
yeah this is the style offense we're
going to install
five feet in height it's gonna sit uh
six inches below
the columns here he has six of them the
plans stucco to match
his house and the tops are
limestone caps
automated
[Music]
electric it'll go like this as opposed
to the
sliding ones
we did clear a path through his
landscaping bed like an island there
um so it is going to be most of our kids
on both sides
and he is talking about that
thank you got it um does anybody on the
commission have any questions is there
is there anyone here tonight
uh wishes to speak to this application
okay seeing none will close uh the
public comment on this one
any uh discussion by the board
is there is there i didn't see is there
something is there a site plan that
shows
where exactly where the fence is going
to go
because there wasn't much attached to
the application we've been working with
the applicant and he has submitted
additional information so straight
across straight line
the fence is actually 15 feet back from
the property line the property owner has
already set back off the street
so you're really probably seeing just
what's been examined near the driveway
that's right on both sides
so that 15 feet is within the is where
the shrubs are approximately
that we saw in the photo this is one in
the middle of the shrubs
uh so you know i mean the shrubs are at
least set our
shrubs are probably 10 feet in width
so it's going through the middle of them
i would say that she's saying the shrubs
must start
15 feet back from our property line
that's where they start i guess i don't
know what that means exactly
off the sidewalk is where the fence so
the shrubs must be
seven feet actually some of the shrubs
go right up to the sidewalk
right you're pretty close basically in
the middle of the landscape
with the sidewalk it's probably not to
do with
the property within the lot neither is
the fence or the shrubs
with i mean we're see how it is there
so it's going through the middle of
those shrubs so is your 15 foot
measurement
from the back side of the sidewalk sir
yeah okay good
got it this looks
yeah that's about where it is is that a
shadow or a line
sure it's funny about where it is it's a
very convenient place
yeah yeah well that's similar to how my
neighbor across the street did it
only his fence is 12 feet directly
across the street
gotcha
anything i mean the only concern i have
i'd like to have
the your final landscape plan reviewed
by the city
what whatever you do just so that when
when it's done
everybody's happy with the landscaping
i've seen you've spent a fortune on
landscaping so
i'm not i'm not overly concerned but
it'd be nice to have that would be a
condition
so when we're done we'll submit a final
and say here's what we like if you want
us to add stuff we'll add
either either way
yeah no just the city just yeah so
you'll do something
what is she supposed to do tell us she
can verify once the
fence is in place that the amount of
landscaping that's there is adequate and
if not she can let you know what might
need to be added
great happy to do that you could if you
want to submit a plan ahead of time and
have her approve it that's fine if you
want to do it and then have her come out
whatever whatever you want to do why
should we do it
we want to get it done
thank you any other uh any other
discussion
could we have the findings of fact and
conclusions of law read please
21-29 for property located at 422
or parkview on consideration of the
application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before it
the board finds that the applicant has
proven that the criteria grant
and error variance to mexico section
122611c
has been met in a variance from mexico
section 1264.02
c to allow a 5 foot high fence with 66
inch high
stucco columns it shall be
approved with the condition that the
applicant worked
the landscape consultant to verify the
landscape
is adequate to screen the vets
do you understand the uh findings the
fact is read yes
thank you now do i hear a motion from
the board
[Music]
i'll say a second uh we have a roll call
mr levine yes mr westlake
yes mr shirt yes
miss mitchell yes chairman
marshall yes it's been approved
thank you for your application and
thanks for investing in the city with
all the beautiful landscaping
thank you yeah thank you all thank you
thanks great to see you
next stop next appreciate your help
next item up is uh beezap 21-30
uh this is 981 uh south roosevelt
is the applicant here for this if you
could uh come up and be sworn in please
please state your name starting with you
sir statues
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes thank
all you uh kathy is there any background
on this uh yes the applicant's
requesting a variance from mexico
section 1252
11c if uncovered a deck may encroach
four feet into required side yard
setback
to allow an uncovered deck to encroach
six feet
into the required 16 foot side yard
setback
for the 62.6 inch wide lot
so you can see on the site plan that
charles street is shown at an angle
to the lot line but is actually offset
at the intersection of roosevelt the
distance from the street
the side plot line of this slot is 12
feet
and where the applicant currently has a
fence the proposed deck would be located
10 feet behind the fence
or property line there is a patio in the
rear yard that currently
you access from the steps outside the
enclosed porch the applicant is looking
to eliminate the existing steps to the
patio
and attach a deck right off that back
porch entrance
the placement of the deck makes sense in
that it allows appropriate space outside
the existing
rear porch entry door also there
currently is
not a stoop outside the porch entry and
not as user friendly as a deck on the
same level
staff does not find the change out of
character being it is only 3.6 feet
closer to the neighboring sorry closer
to the north property line along charles
avenue
than the existing enclosed porch staffer
deferred to the board if there's
anything further to consider
can you back into the pics the aerial
picture that showed the line
so can you just show us on there where
where is the so
you can see that the patio there yeah
on that that's the small porch on the
left side of the house
so right now those steps come right down
off of that door
onto that patio and they just simply
want to replace that patio with a deck
so being it's a raised structure there's
certain setbacks that come into play
if you have that patio flush with the
ground so so is the
is the deck well i'll ask the applicant
is that is the deck going to go right
over the fence
so so how far from the fence would it
end up
well there we go it's only coming two
foot off the house
basically the goal is to cover up the
country uh where it is right now
and she also liked the idea of being
able to look around the corner
up to the front as well um and
you know they wanted me said what 64
feet past
the house the other way well if you do
that then you can't have a door there
either um and that will be the only back
door
uh eventually for for the house because
they're going to be some
recalling in the near future for the
other door got it
got it is there anything else you want
to present
uh is there anyone here uh in the
audience tonight that wishes to speak
this application
any uh any discussion
questions comments i would just say it
would be a nice addition to that yard
i pass it every day so yeah another
feeling to it wanting a good deck
pace dividends get to move the
trampoline that's the best part
yeah could we have the uh findings of
fact and
conclusions of law please
decision of the board for application
number bzap 21-30 for property located
at 981 south roosevelt
on consideration of the application
proposed variants and evidence
testimony before it the board finds the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to grant an area of variance in vexical
section 12 26 11 c
have been met the variance from vector
code section 1252
11 c to allow a deck
on the west side of the existing
principle structure and do you
understand the findings of fact and
conclusions of the board as read
yes do i hear a motion for this
application
motion to approve second uh roll call
please
miss mitchell yes mr
yes mr levine yes mr westlake
yes chairman marshall yes it's been
approved thank you
all right thank you next application is
bzap
21-31 22 south roosevelt
as the applicant here you could come up
and be sworn in please
please state your name starting with you
ma'am everybody
noah may break please raise your right
hand
you soundly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
thank you um
kathy is there any background on this
one the applicant is seeking a six-inch
variance
from mexico section 1264 o2c which
states decorative landscape walls and
fences woods
which exceed 24 inches in high heat
above ground but not more than 42 inches
above ground level may be allowed with
the special permission board of zoning
and planning
the applicant is requesting to place a
48-inch fence
and let me get to the right location
here
so in this photo
it wouldn't be enough photos looking
from the corner broad street and
roosevelt looking southeast the property
is located on the south side of broad
street and across the street roosevelt
from the gutesakum
the fence is proposed behind the
sidewalk along broad street and then
turns south and runs along the roosevelt
avenue on the side of the property
until it meets it the entry walk into
the front yard
at that point the retaining wall is
proposed just beyond the sidewalk and
run south along the roosevelt
avenue to a point just north of the
alley
that runs along the south side of this
property the retaining wall was reviewed
by the backseat
and public garden commission being it is
in the city right away along with the
landscape plan
[Music]
the style of the fence meets the
criteria and that is decorative wrought
iron fence
which includes a minimum 50 transparency
will provide an aesthetic improvement
the front of the lot is platted to broad
street yet the house is oriented to
roosevelt avenue a side yard fence along
the street side of a corner lot is
limited to 48 inches in height the
proposed fence is 48 inches in height
which is six inches higher than what is
allowed in the front here without a
special
variance from the board designing and
planning there are currently three
48 inch high black chain link fences in
the front yards of these properties
along broad street so there's four lots
at face broad street from roosevelt
going west these fences separate each
one of these lots
and starts at the sidewalk and simply
runs along the
north and south property lines of these
lots what is proposed on the slot will
include replacing one of these 48 inch
high
chain link fences with a decorative
metal fence
based on the unique orientation of the
house in lieu of
the padded front yard and the compatible
design of the decorative fence and
landscaping improvements staff would
note that
the 48 inch high fence is not out of
character for this location
and would recommend that if the board
finds the variance acceptable
the approval should include landscaping
as approved by the tree and public
garden commission
and from what i understand the tree and
public garden commission negotiated that
the landscaping in in front of the fence
along broad street
is actually going to be pushed back
and the fence will be pushed back a foot
so you have a whole six feet between the
sidewalk
and the fence to have three feet of
grass running along the sidewalk and
then a three foot planting bed
so staff would would ask that that would
be the appropriate
landscaping if you decide to approve got
it
got it i have a question are we being
asked to approve
a variance and a special permit and does
the extension
matter the special permit is what you
would consider
if they were under at 42 inches or less
but being there over 42 inches it's a
variance request
i just wanted to provide you with it is
a special variance if you
decided that it shouldn't be according
to
special work or special confidence okay
if you'd like
and um karen can you go to the one that
shows the landscaping
perfect if you want to go ahead and just
help walk us through what you want to do
in uh in the variance request yeah um
so uh the major issue here is
really uh as kathy kemp touched on the
orientation of the house
um it is uh oriented towards
roosevelt being the front entryway as
you can see from the
plan here the homeowners purchased home
three years ago and uh
are looking to totally renovate all the
landscaping uh
because of the orientation of the house
you can see there's essentially no
backyard
uh which would be on the east side
correct of the
um uh yeah of the house
and so they're really going to utilize
the side yard
as their kind of gathering um and family
space
so with that uh the homeowner wanted to
fence in that side of the yard um
with the proposed 48 inch metal fence in
order to
number one have a space for the kids to
to run around and play as well
as fencing in any family pets so that's
kind of just do they not make a 42-inch
metal fence
our homeowner was concerned about uh the
pets
getting out of the slightly shorter guys
yeah i was just gonna say 42 is not
going to cut it if you got a
jumpy dog
especially that close to broad street
is there anyone here in the audience
that wishes to speak this application
gotta ask and i'd like to note that uh
the
code no longer allows on a corner lot
and chain leak fence
on the street side of a corner lot so
what they're proposing would actually
eliminate one of those chain fences
that's in the
front yard it's plated too broad so
technically it's front yard but
it looks like their side yard yeah yeah
they had no clue uh
when we brought this issue up to them
that that's the way the
city considered their lot planning yeah
they were quite surprising
a lot of these corner lots run into
issues just just like this
so you're seeing this house
i did not know that either i walked the
walk
it's in the vegetation so it's going
north and south
between each one of those lots that run
out to broad street if you're coming the
other way
there you go yeah and the block really
tends to disappear
yeah you don't you don't really see it
i've seen them i wonder what they're
forced
they don't have nothing
in the uh yeah they're saying
yeah that's my truth this is
kathy get given do we do we need to make
a landscaping requirement or do we want
to just make a
reference that has already been reviewed
and approved
i would say that with the condition that
the landscape plan is in accordance to
the approval
granted by the dream public commission
perfect
um does anyone on the board have any
comments questions
could we have the findings of facts in
the conclusion of the board
find this back and decision of the board
for application number bcap-21-31 for
property located at 22 south roosevelt
upon consideration of the application
proposed variance and evidence
and testimony before the board finds the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to grant an area various dive secret
section 122611c
have been met and it varies from mexico
section 1264 to 4.02 c
to allow 48-inch fence in the front yard
and landscape plan conditioned upon
approval granted by the treaty and
public air commission on july
21st 2021 do you understand the findings
of facts and conclusions of the board as
as
read yes do i hear a motion
so good in a second if we could have a
roll call
all right uh mr westby yes
yes mr schick yes
miss mitchell yes chairman
yes your uh uh
application has been approved thank you
very much
uh next item on the agenda is uh we have
a design
guideline standard illustration
presentation by mr heyer
come up please so i'll introduce this
yeah perfect
um mr higher bill has been
hired by the city as a consultant and my
partner in crime and
creating the city's design
guidelines and standards update um
we have a a a lofty vision
of having a um
an electronic interactive
it's becoming much more than a vision
now finally after cove
derailing it for a while but this will
be an interactive
kind of a guidance and
educational tool for our residents our
board members our
council members anyone um to give you a
taste of where we're going with it
and to see what phil has been up to for
us
we thought it would be good just to take
10 minutes of your time
and he's really he's practiced now for
10 minutes because we've done this with
arv i think you'll really enjoy it
what you're going to see from bill
tonight is just the illustrations part
of it
there is a document that i have um
pretty much completed on
an adobe program and we we will be
concerning and improving and adding to
um the document that i've written along
with some of my illustrations and mostly
those illustrations
that will then be linked all over the
place through the code through
applications all electronically and see
i met kath our young techie person is
helping us put this all together
so we're really really excited about it
because
well i'm going to hand it over to bill
because when you see the kind of
the illustrations that will be included
in this i think
you'll see that it'll do um it'll just
be an enormous help for our residents
board members
everybody that has to do with design
what you'll be seeing mostly is um
really tends to be residential
here toward residential with every
intention of them taking this
to commercial so with that mr heyer
this is bill for those who don't know
yeah really
member i haven't met you yet nice to see
you
and i apologize but bill this is a pdf
that's fine
yeah they're both the same so yeah
um karen and i have been working for
over a year if you uh if you count covid
on these guidelines and the city did
hire
my firm i have an architectural firm
that is um
right here on main street above
giuseppe's i've been there since 2007.
um and we do a lot of historic
preservation
and civic you know religious uh work
so i had presented this idea to the
mayor
with karen a number of years ago because
the arb and i believe it'll be
beneficial for the bees app as well
to to have a set of guidelines that can
give us a visual
for being able to explain and work with
clients
uh work with applicants excuse me
through
the process i mean helpful for the
design consultant
and at first and then for us as well
they'll be able to learn language
uh architectural language that's
important for them for their
presentations
um you know what we're looking for in
terms of drawings and then
understanding of the neighborhoods of
bexley and the design
uh that's here in bexley the character
that we have so
there's another group we've been working
with called the
historic preservation working group
which had
initially which i'm on and we had
initially
started to look at the breakdown of the
different neighborhoods that are in
bexley
larry hellman has been a huge help with
identifying
and talking about the history of these
different neighborhoods but this is part
of the document just as
we would want the residents to
understand why their particular
neighborhood
is special and this does include a lot
of zoning issues
because you can see that we have
uh bullet park which is the a district
and then you have
places like ardmore north and ardmore
south
they all have names they're all
available on google these are the
historic names
some of them have multiple names and we
just kind of put them together
for now we're still working this out for
like g and h
where they do have different names and
but the the neighborhood of g
is the boulevard streets right it was
developed west of cassidy for the most
part or east of cassidy excuse me
for the most part um and
so there are alleys there there's the
boulevards
um ardmore you know kind of dips into
uh west of cassidy but most of it's to
the east and there and then we have
these
so those are the major neighborhoods and
then we have these special districts
that are the pink outlines where we have
a special character
of architecture for instance number five
up in ardmore north is the
merc we call them the merkle stoneworks
this is a neighborhood that has
just a whole line of nothing but
sandstone limestone
houses and it's important that the
residents understand
you know again the character of their
particular neighborhood and so we spent
a lot of time identifying these
there is one neighborhood that is not
identified
of all of them and it's right here
and it's our little modern house uh
neighborhood
which we haven't really talked about how
that's going to be identified but like
number two
you know you have the uh planned
communities there
uh off obviously sessions is its own
they have their own architectural
guidelines and so on
but the other two neighborhoods bishops
square i believe and those are
so those two neighborhoods over there
are also identified bill i can't believe
you left
the property off i know how could you do
that yeah i mean
because it's still a working document
this is a great
frank lloyd wright disc yeah that's
right yeah
the flat roof district you'll notice
that we
um we obviously left off the main street
district so it's not color-coded
this is capital all of this but it is
not part of
a district and we did that on purpose so
that people would be able to clearly
identify what neighborhood the
capital is clearly not going to be
giving their property over for
residential
anytime soon so that's that's how we had
done it same with north cassidy you'll
notice that the commercial
zone is not in any district
um so anyway this is the background for
identifying the neighborhood and then
from each of these
we go into the characteristics of each
so for instance here is
uh south bexley and its different
neighborhoods eight is the euclair
porches district
where yes not all of the houses have
porches
but this is a way to identify the
character of the of that particular
street that particular
district and it would encourage some of
the residents who may not have a porch
to say i'm in the
roosevelt uh or euclair historical porch
district and i'd like to put a porch on
my house
so we want to continue to build
diversity of these neighborhoods in
character
um if you look at this neighborhood here
this is our tudor zone
and there is a plethora of tutor houses
in that area
and we want people to be proud of the
character of that neighborhood
and then of course south bexley in
general has its own character which is
very diverse so we we do
talk about that in this document draw it
each of these neighborhoods will come
with an exonometric drawing that shows
for instance here bexley park with the
boulevard streets
relationship of garages to alleys or in
the case on the right no alley
you can get a sense of proportion and
scale of the blocks the houses the
additions
the garages and so on we will have
language in here right now it's just
kind of
filler stuff but we will karen's been
she's got a lot of
stuff to put in here for that i don't
want to interrupt you but i'm going to
um because you all were responsible for
the review of the garage code you can
see
that my drawings that i showed you how
they
will be really good for
and this would be a place where that
that's a great great application
so then we go we kind of zoom in and we
have a
an individual lot where we show how an
addition
could be put onto this house you know
side front
um from the main block of the house
we're very careful in these sketches
to make sure that we're we're indicating
what we feel
is part of the character of the
neighborhood and there's another section
where we're going to show
what we feel is not a part of the
character of the neighborhood
yeah and these are not stylistic okay so
you could have a colonial house and you
want to put a modern edition on it
that's fine
um there actually obviously doesn't uh
have a rule about that so typically
we're going to be showing
additions that we feel are sensitive to
the architecture
we also have street sections here so
applicants and homeowners can understand
the relationship of their
blocks of houses and additions to their
rear yards
and their garages and understand the
terminology all this will have
terminology with it so they can
understand and so that their architects
and their designers their
whoever they're working with will
actually be able to come
to you to the arb with drawings
that are that we might ask for say we
would like to see us
you know make sure you have a street
section through your house could be
important for the psap review
things things that could be helpful
especially if there's an architect and
designer involved
it's really um hard for us to just
verbally describe how we want a section
to look and people think it's so
cumbersome
but if you look at this i know it took a
lot of work it feels firm but you can
see they're just
they're just volumetric studies right
but you know something that jumps out on
me that we tend to miss
on these lots that don't have alleys at
the back a lot of times there are
easements back there
they have utility lines you've got
people we have one variance where they
put the garage back there and then we
find out oh they can't put it there
so then we had to get a bearing so we
can
ask that question we also are trying to
show
trees at what we feel would be their
mature height
for the kind of tree in the neighborhood
so a lot of trees you'll notice like on
this street
south casting south cassingham is
missing
in this particular photo a number of
trees right it doesn't fill out the way
it will eventually
some trees get replanted and and but we
wanted to show in our street sections
what we feel would be the ultimate
canopy
for that and so every neighborhood will
have a different if you go back to the
drawing before
every neighborhood you see has a
different kind of canopy
and where private trees are placed is
also
something that we want to be sure we're
showing accurately
for the different neighborhoods and that
again tree commission people were
um you know sort of early on we were
talking about these kind of things
that's been very helpful
go to the next we will have street views
um
the mayor wants us to take our own
photos and not use google photos for
this document so
we are going to take a little more time
to go through the neighborhoods
we have a ton of photos of new
neighborhoods but nothing captures these
streets
quite like google street view does so
we're going to try to
work on that with our own our own
photographer
if you go down we start to look at
relationships of the different houses in
the neighborhoods
where the floor plates are where the
roof ridges
are what the average is it doesn't have
to do with style you can see that
you know we have a house like this one
which is a mid-century modern house and
it still meets
all of the criteria of the character of
bexley right
it still has the floor plates which are
relatively aligned the roof line or eve
is actually aligned even though this one
has a roof that goes back and has
dormers
and the relative opening proportion to
the mass of the house these are
important things for arb when we're
looking at our house houses that come
before us and
this is only going to help residents to
understand what we mean by
you know ratio of fenestration or
opening to
massive building and roof lines and
stuff they just a lot of them don't
understand this they don't know this
vocabulary so
um and here we're going to show sort of
what is good and
what to avoid because we get a lot of
projects where
um you're infilling on a street in
bexley and we want to tell you what you
what is good and what you should avoid
what fits the character of the
neighborhood and what doesn't so for
instance we purposely chose
a kind of post-modern design to fit into
this neighborhood which is really no
neighborhood in bexley
it takes cues from houses that are on
multiple streets
to make this street but when in our when
we tell an architect we want a street
uh view a street elevation that shows
the relationship of the houses
this is what we want so you can see that
the ridgeline
is a little bit taller but it's in
relative proportion to the others
the fenestration and the floor plates
are in relative proportion to the rest
of these other houses
design wise you know we would look at
details and things like that but this is
the first step to
getting architects to understand you
have to
work with the character of bexley we had
one applicant the other night
who said something about well you know
modern uh
applicants modern people they want to
have taller floor plates you know they
want to have the bigger first floor the
bigger second floor and so on
and i think our comment really is uh
in response that's great but you're in
bexley
so there has to be a compromise you know
you can you can try to incorporate these
bigger floor
you know floor to ceiling heights but
remember that you're in baxley and
that's what this document does is tell
you what becksley
bexley's character is about and a lot of
it does have to do with these
sort of floor plates and fenestrations
and so on here's sort of a
contemporary house you know same idea
showing how it relates
um and then what to avoid you know no
clear center
uh no clear entry uh rift roofline
ridgeline that's way out of proportion
to the rest of the neighborhood
um geometries that do not match the
character
of that particular neighborhood grade
that has been raised intentionally so
that the house is taller
that those are the kind of things that
we're going to have on here that will
really i think hope hopefully will you
know
take away uh some of the applications we
see where they're
clearly trying to do this stuff so it's
just it's really about the character of
the neighborhood
and i think when we say a good and avoid
you know we don't say bad
um but we do want to make it clear that
some things
are more applicable to a particular
neighborhood
this is kind of the money picture if you
ask me
we show you uh things to avoid with your
additions
you know we get a lot of these or we
used to where they just want to put this
monster thing on the back that aligns
flush
where the ridgeline you know they even
may say well i'm going to put a nice
dorm
or a north storm or window on this side
no you're not understanding the way
bexley architecture works it's a main
block of the house which is primary
the additions are all secondary and
tertiary and we want to carry on that
character
um you know having windows that do
nothing you know in terms of
organization
we we see a lot of this and it's not the
applicant's fault a lot of times it's
it's just we want a window here we want
a window there
and there's no designer to help them
karen has to of course
sort of pull all this together but this
will help them to at least
ease it it'll help karen and ease her uh
work that she would have to do too
next let's go to the next time
and the thing is i know we keep saying
not in betsley but it's really more than
that it's an architectural educational
tool
because you wouldn't want to do most of
these things whether you're in bexley or
not
then we get into the breakdown of good
architecture in different neighborhoods
so this says like neighborhood b
and this one would say neighborhood e f
and g so what we're saying is that these
kind of designs
are found in those particular
neighborhoods okay not that
not that you couldn't mix and match for
when you're in your application
but in the process we're showing you how
you you know how symmetry is broken down
relationships of
window proportions front porches
there'll be some text to describe it
um there will be highlights
for eve details window details column
and tablet or details
chimney details and so on and you'll go
to another page where you'll see more of
those so
it's not only about you coming up with a
new design it's about understanding the
design
that you live in right now and people
can take that
and probably be able to be more um
judgmental about things that are
happening in their neighborhood
how to do a proper turned cornice
that fits the character revexley we do a
3d view on the right we do
an elevation and a little section
showing you what that raking
cornice is supposed to do there are lots
of examples different styles
this is just one these are this is not
the whole package there's about 40 other
drawings in this um you know what to
avoid
in terms of details in eaves that do not
meet
bexley character now we're seeing a lot
of this
and it's part of bexley now but i would
say now is the time to
nip it because because it's not part of
the real rich character
of actually this is new stuff that we're
seeing we do have sheets that are just
going to be examples of good
windows in the city of bexley so we're
not
highlighting a house we're highlighting
a detail and we're very careful
in this set of documents not to show
anyone's particular house the whole
house as an example of what to do
because conversely people would say well
i don't have a house like that so is my
house not good enough
and we want to avoid that we just want
to show details so it's all over the
place
windows different kinds of windows how
you do proportions in windows
um you know when we as the arb talk
about a six over one
window now the applicant's gonna
understand what we're talking about
um we're gonna talk about aprons and
having you know trim
so on that they'll understand all these
all the terminology
how to do a proper you know a proper
window in bexley
it doesn't talk about vinyl doesn't talk
about you know aluminum clad it's just
the window we have our craftsman style
house which is a three over one
um and then you know your typical sort
of um
colonial cottage house uh window on the
right and then shutters in the
relationship
we would love to see real shutters with
real dog ears
to hold them back um if they're not
going to be real
can we at least mimic you know the
proportion and the placement
that'd be nice to see residents start to
do dormers
how you do a proper dormer or what these
terms are called aprons
and how you can handle the side of a
dormer
for a shed dormer we do other kinds of
dormers
like in this case a wall dormer which is
a very complicated detail there's a lot
of it in bexley
and for homeowners who don't understand
this this is a way to help them do that
with terminology
but also if we see new wall dormers
coming we see a lot of this for like
pool houses
or big garages in bullet park you know
central bexley
um the arb the bees app can look through
this and say hey this this is not
looking like anything that has character
in your neighborhood
and that's can be fine you know i mean
obviously there's going to be exceptions
and
again there's so many variations but
there's other things like
you know these are things that we would
like to avoid because they're not part
of bexley character
the tiny window and the giant dormer uh
the box eaves on top of that we're kind
of throwing it all together here to show
you what could be really bad
too small of window you know mullions
all bunched together
wrong proportion um and then this is
one that you know i really hope goes
away but we're seeing a lot of picture
framing of windows which is not
traditional
it's not part of any style of
architecture it's a new it's a new
builder thing it's easy and they do a
lot with the
renovated windows you know the retrofit
windows
um but it takes away the character of
the apron and the sill so
there's more to discuss on these and
some of the drawings that we have might
be pulled out others might be added in
here's another example of stone veneer
in bexley
just showing you the great quality that
we have here
how it's done we can you know applicants
we can pull up images from the booklet
that will be the design guidelines and
say hey you have a chimney like this
or you have you know coining around your
entryway like this or maybe you should
do something like that
um just great ways to help the
applicants to
design better slate roofs there's so
many variations in bexley be proud of
your slate roof
you know here's an example where you
have what we call graduated slate
where it goes from a thin exposure and
then it spreads out to a wide exposure
on the slate
because it's probably a swept eve
meaning that it kind of curves like a
ski slope at the bottom
and that is very characteristic of a
number of homes here
then you have the different colors for
the different kinds of slate and we'll
put these links to other things too like
um how to get yourself on a slate probe
like i have a slate group
myself but i'm on a program where a
company comes once a year and replaces
two or three at a time then it saves you
from having
a slave roof that falls apart so you
know that may not be part of the
design but it will have a link like
how to maintain your slate yeah like
some recommendations or something
resources yeah sorry though oh no
problem there's just a few more here i
think
um we do a page on porches you can see
there's bungalows here there's colonials
there's small entry porches and then
there's big porches we'll have a lot
more examples
this is very limited right here but we
do go and show you
how you do a colonial porch how you do a
traditional porch
on the next page which really we start
with the orders
okay where does all this come from the
good designs that we see in bexley start
right here
and so you have the opportunity to
educate yourself as
an architect or as designer or as a
homeowner
on where yours comes from tuscan doric
ionic and so on
now obviously those are developed and
they're transformed for what your porch
is but let's go back and understand
where they came from in those
proportions
so so then we go on to show you you know
for instance how you would do double
columns to create more stability instead
of having thin
columns we're not really showing a bad
example here but we might include one on
this page
just to avoid and have this be an
example of what you can do because
arb we've actually recommended this on a
number of houses where they have these
you know skinny columns that were like
20 feet apart
no that's not really bexley so then we
go into how the detailing is done
and when you have a beam for a porch you
are supposed to be
aligning your beam with your column
and we get a lot of this and we have to
kind of
talk them through it and they're more
than happy to make the change they just
didn't know
so that's part of it and then we put it
all together in this image down here
where you know we're seeing a lot of
these box caps
developers do these because they're
cheap but again it's not
actually character and i'm unfortunately
we're seeing
there must be 20 or 30 houses in bexley
that now have these box caps
uh on them and it's just taking away
from
the character of our houses they're just
they're easy
i have a question um obviously um
this guideline would be something that
the city would adopt
so how would if
someone comes before be zap with a
application for variants and then they
bring us all the pictures of the 30
homes that are like look
they have these picture frame windows
that i want
our bzap then would take the position
we've adopted these standards those
homes are grandfathered because they're
already there before predating the
standards
and we will not approve yeah but keep in
mind that
really visa is not the one who does oh
arb
yeah but we feel like it's very
important
to me the zoning and the architecture
are
completely integrated so we wanted to
make sure that you are
have the same information and there are
parts of this that are
really about zoning like the garage size
the garage
but to your point that's why it's so
important for you guys to remain
and design back to arv because they are
specifically looking at these kind of
details
and then ideally the hope would be that
it would prevent those sorts of
applications getting is
so far if we can correct it
ahead it's like with those 30 homes
maybe would have
been 15 if they knew exactly still
right hoping that i can get a lot for i
already get pretty far
because i sit down with them and sketch
things out and i
verbally explain it but with a document
like this it'll just be so much
easier and a tool right at their
fingertips from their own computers and
then i can use this
as kind of like my textbook of bexley
and their designers
their designers and architects and all
that kind of stuff will have this
information as well
yeah i mean and they understand it but
yeah
so we have to go we'd have to go before
city council and we'd have to get this
approved they have to approve it once
it's finally put together
in its final form they'll have a chance
to read through and look through the
documents
and probably ask us to give
presentations on it
if it does get approved then we would uh
we would also have public workshops so
the public will be allowed to review it
and make comment before it's
before the final i'm sorry before the
final approval and would be that be able
to
provide um feedback on it as well
of why we're here absolutely we're not
ready for that point sure
but we wanted to give you a taste of
like what we're starting to work on
this is fabulous the other thing i
wanted to point out and it's been asked
to me that our arb mentioned this some
people did
is will you have examples of a
contemporary edition being put on a
traditional home
and i said yes and we'll have an example
of a traditional addition being put on a
contemporary home
i mean there's so many variations that
we could do in bexley because it's not
there's no
regulation on that so we will have some
images they'll be fairly sketchy because
we don't want to get into
you know people saying well that's a
different kind of modern design than
what i want in my house
and uh that's not the that's not the
thrust of this but
yeah um on top of that i would say that
um
with the historic preservation working
group and arb really
taking the lead on these things with
these public workshops that we plan to
have
you know for the for the community to
come and give their input
on this um we really have an opportunity
to be transparent to vet this
and for people to in the end to
understand their neighborhoods and to
really love them
because i get people all the time uh
even in you know i live on grand
and i'll have people ask me all kinds of
questions about why this house you know
why they did this detail why they do
that and
the more residents in bexley feel they
understand their neighborhood
the more feel the more they feel like
they are you know engaged in the
community and
and can appreciate what is good design
what is not good design when it comes to
seeing things popping up on their street
obviously we're more concerned with
porches and things that we see from the
street
but those back additions um you know
especially in south bexley you know
you're
those you know you get out you wake up
in the morning and you look out that
back window and there's this thing
that's good
right and i found that after doing this
for as many and kathy
would agree with me too i'm sure after i
mean i've been doing this for 23 years
now here
when you frame it even larger than it's
just about
it's not just about bexley they're so
grateful i mean i have people that say
oh my god i went to italy
and all the things that you explained to
me on my house in bethlehem
i could see things differently now so i
mean not that that's our goal our goal
is to improve the housing stock here in
vancouver appreciating their investment
but my approach is much more likely to
educate
a holistic education i like the idea of
the um
the historic preservation two of the
community
um to to a degree not saying that modern
isn't
i'm a huge fan of modern design but you
know
there are modern communities as well as
you know eclectic ones so you know i
like the idea of
understanding each pocket what its
historical
architectural intention was
and then even if you want to mix it up a
little bit still be true to that
architectural intention yeah and we do
have some modern architecture here
yeah i would say outstanding yeah
outstanding
yeah i mean if this if bexley was all
mid-century modern you can bet that we
would be on the national register of
historic places
because of its quality modern
mid-century modern design
the good thing is is we are a much more
you know
diverse architectural community and
that makes our work a little more
complicated um more tedious or not
tedious we love it
but we have to cover a range of styles
and languages of architecture and make
sure we don't leave people out
um but you know there is bad
architecture in bexley there's bad
design
there's there's how there are houses as
you've seen
on this board that have been neglected
um that been straight jacketed in vinyl
siding and
you know so what we're trying to do is
not to pinpoint those
houses but to pinpoint and talk about
the care
that's why we zoom in on these
neighborhoods because each one has a
particular character
that does have similarities with the
other neighborhoods
one of my favorites is talking about the
bellwood district which is north
cat you know cassidy allegheny and rule
and all that
all these little cape cods and yes there
are some beautiful farmhouses mixed in
there
but there are also some weird you know
two-story
i don't know what they are you know and
they probably some of them might have
been a beautiful house at one point
and those people could say well you know
you didn't represent my house in your
neighborhood in the neighborhood for the
design guidelines i said
no we can't represent every house and
every house style but what we can
do is show you how
people who would come to bellwood would
understand this neighborhood it's made
up of mostly cape cods
with a few farmhouses and those are the
ones that have all the architectural
character
sorry but you know it's also the reason
that we're not
just talking about the style of the
houses we're talking about
proportion and relative floor plate
height because when we have houses
don't fit into any kind of style like
that we do want to create a language
that they're familiar with right
so we will talk about craftsman windows
and
cottage style windows and you know
modern windows
but those kind of those kind of terms
those stylistic terms we are going to
try to avoid for the overall style of
the house
it's just going to be you know house
type a and house type b
you know and these are just examples of
what's available what's here in bexley
so it's a long and i should also mention
that
uh we the if you do share your
um table of contents for the
working document uh
there we go look at that there are so
many other chapters
besides the the visuals of the design
and guidelines and standards
there's there's going to be a section on
green design um
there's going to be sections that speak
specifically to historic preservation
and so on adaptive uh reuse all kinds of
things that are going to be written in
this document
and the mayor has told the arb that um
you know he supports us fully he says
that the arb should be writing
guidelines to be used
and it's really going to help us uh in
the public
public eye because now we have something
that is basically codified
to help us make decisions instead of
just i like that i don't like that you
know that's not acceptable and we all
know it
and we don't do i mean obviously we
don't do that all the time but
yeah but some can slip through are the
problems that you're trying to address
how random were they before let's say it
was architectural review
horrible you're seeing a lot of them
disappear over the years because of
architecture
my second question is are do you have
any concern that what you're suggesting
is going to make bexley more homogenous
like new albany no not at all because
i used to sit on the arc in new albany
for the country club
and the set of architectural rules for
um new albany is all georgian
architecture it is monotonous
it is you know i mean and and so there
are things that you can't do there that
we freely allow
here style in no way are we stopping
anyway you know a freedom of you picking
any kind of style that you want for your
house
you could do a zaha hadid house if you
want to do that in bexley
as long as you're meeting you know our
height restrictions and you know
how how you could be a good neighbor on
the street so
colors we don't regulate those um we
will give a little history on
architectural style in the beginning of
this document
but you'll see that that's about it and
then from there it's really
showing the diversity of the languages
and architecture in bexley
i mean i i'm not particularly conversant
in these issues
but it does strike me as being
a tad heavy-handed and you know
sort of i don't know i don't want to say
this but
that citizens would present
the limitations on their freedom
you know to rely on their own design
professionals
and tastes
yeah it is it's a big part of our
discussions and then we have to
distinguish between
taste and just you know bad design
well it's not just bad design it's it's
bad craftsman it's bad it's it's it's
lazy craftsmanship
and we also have to distinguish between
guidelines
versus code right yeah so you know these
are guidelines
and i also think we probably need to get
more away from talking about
specific the style part of it
understanding the styles
is part of what came out of our historic
preservation
committee which i probably should
preface this by kind of
going through a process a little bit
that's what started this and it was an
amazing group of people with a big
a diverse group a diverse background and
we came out with
maps that were like mansion district
porch district
and we realized that that wasn't a good
way to do this
so that's why there's been a lot of
iterations
exactly to your point it seems very
heavy-handed and very dictatorial
you have to be this kind of house in
this way and we're gradually breaking
that down
to um educating people on the different
styles that you can have
but more about what the proportions and
you know we have houses that you really
can't really put in a style
right but they are good houses because
their details are done well
and their their proportions are well
people
i would say that residents have actually
know good design when they see it
i mean you recognize a beautiful window
you recognize a beautiful eve
beautiful stone work on a house and they
recognize the houses that have the you
know the cheap lick them stick them
stone and the vinyl windows
but if the vinyl window has good
proportions and you know it's got
some good proportioned uh you know fake
shutters that are aluminum
you know either side of it you know i'm
sure bexley people would say you know
that that's a really nice
design that you presented because you're
you're working within that character of
bexley what we don't like seeing
is the stuff that's plopping in from
tartan field
or plopping in from you know a new
subdivision in hillyard that does not
you know meet uh what we consider to be
the character of bexley realtors have
been involved with us
in the historic preservation working
group it's like the big thing about
bexley is the you know the resale value
and the
in the the the uh the value of the homes
well i think to your point i that's
probably
the nail right there is you know if you
want a newer
um uber modern um
whatever type home there are communities
where that exists
or you are buying you are looking for
a historic neighborhood or you're
looking for
those sorts of character when people we
see it on what is that
house hunters or like i want
architectural details i want
historic or i want right but
whatever the whatever it is that they're
looking for
you can find that um and i
always when i drive by those particular
houses it look like they just got popped
out of a subdivision
in new albany or hilliard and i'm like
well that's pretty
but wow you know and it's on a street
with like cute little cape cod
cottages or something it's it stands out
yeah and rick to your point exactly i
mean you're right on
it's the approach that we have to take
because i can tell you from
um you know doing this for as long as
i've done i
it's it's minuscule how many people
resent
being taught this stuff you know and if
they do it's all economic it's always
that country
like well i can't do that because i
can't afford it and then we want the
film to get to a solution
um i typically don't have a lot of push
back at all
right now i'm the design guy but also
to his concern a lot of times an
architect will work with a
resident on what the resident wants and
they may suggest something that the
resident gives them pushback
and then the architecture review board
actually backs up that architect with
what he told them to begin with
makes them realize this is the right
thing to do
all that makes sense but let me ask you
this is it conceivable that
a homeowner hires a design professional
a high quality design professional
that you happen to disagree with and
then they're forced
to make a compromise that their
professional
doesn't agree with right happens yeah it
happens all the time all the time i mean
that would be very upsetting to me
it happens all the time well but i i
look at the other way i think
this will give people some got right now
like you said
no one has they have to go to karen to
get any kind of
input on what should they be designed or
whatever
and then i think this will give them a
document to look at ahead of time
and give them some direction and how
many times have
a lot of these a lot of these details
aren't even on the first
set of drawings that someone would do
you know it would just show windows it
wouldn't show
what the framing how the framing's done
or the mullions or whatever so
i don't i don't think we'll really run
into that many people that are
have already fully designed something a
certain way
that this is going to go against i would
say the most problem
we've had with designers and you know
not
that they're they're trying to you know
impose
on bexley something that the
architecture review board sees as
as not compatible with that particular
neighborhood for whatever reason
the ridge height is 10 feet higher than
the other houses
the materials they're using or the
setback that they're asking for or
whatever it is
there's so many ways that the arb looks
at we don't look at setbacks
anymore you know i was on the bza before
uh
we switched but anyway there's so many
factors that we looked at and yes
i'd say that the the times where we have
the most difficulty is when you have a
developer
who is testing the waters with something
that
they know is not compatible in bexley
they're just trying to see
if we will allow it to happen because
their client really wants
you know 13 foot first floor and a 12
foot second floor
um
and it's not designed i mean that that's
just the honest way it's like
99 of the time when we make
recommendations without designing the
house
the architect will say that's a great
idea or thank you for the input
99 of the time and we've had them even
come here and
say do you guys have any guidelines or
there's no guidelines
you know they're not necessarily looking
for rules to break they're looking for
those guide rails to design within you
know that's what at least
that's what i've noticed and with hope
don't have a lot of
a lot of that do you consider it more
targeted towards
designers and contractors than
necessarily end users
no i i see this i mean our the way we're
looking at this
is homeowners and their builders the
architects should already know this
stuff and if they don't the homeowners
will be able to
show them because the homeowner is the
one hopefully is going to know the
character of their neighborhood
if it's a new homeowner coming in
wanting to buy a house tear it down and
build a new one
you know if they're moving from
california or wherever
okay when they bought the property they
get handed
this package and now they know what
their what neighborhood they're in and
how they're supposed to
work with it the builders too there's
lots of builders that
don't work in bexley very often they
don't know the character of the
neighborhoods
they're just used to doing what they do
whether it's in hillyard or pataskula or
very clear i mean this is the very
beginning of all this but we have to
make it very clear that
you don't need to build a style there's
not neighborhood there's not a dictated
neighborhood style
that that's just what's been typical
historically
you can come from california and want to
do something completely different
that's absolutely fine then look at
where your floor plates are and your
window proportions are
relative to what's near you so that it
doesn't overwhelm what's next
do whatever you want just do it well
so we don't have what we ended up with
on south columbia
got it this was in progress way before
that he was hanging in the air
i just wanted to end with this uh
rendering we did of havenwood park
which uh i think shows you know in term
for you know for
plan planners and zoning people you know
these
these are just really handy tools to
show you relationships of houses and the
setbacks and
you know houses you know how they're how
their front porches align and things
like that
character and then up above is the sec
trees uh sort of section
through the the neighborhood with you
know trying to show the houses
relationships with the trees these will
be bigger bigger drawings
unfortunately right now we we have them
both at the same scale but i really want
that section to be bigger so you can see
more of the houses beyond the
park yeah there you go see
yeah that's it
so far what's what's the timing on all
this
well asap i mean right now our office is
you know we have about 40 other drawings
that we're going to have to sit down and
with karen and we're going to have to go
through and
make sure that we've got everything
lined up and i would hope by the fall we
would have a preliminary document
great great i think it'd be very helpful
for for everybody involved
yeah um we plan on having
a doc a rough draft document that we
could give to airbnb
to not another presentation but actually
the city council get that too at that
time or they would rather have
them review it first oh yeah yeah and
then we'll
take it eventually we'll have an open
forum tree commissioner
everybody it's a process
i'm not as hopeful that it'll be early
fall
maybe late fall
i'm just chomping at the bit i just want
to it because every month we go through
arb and
you know these these would be a great
lifesaver for
a lot of the conversations we have with
homeowners yeah applicants i should say
i mean
you know unlike other industries in
copen we got killed
so we didn't have any time to do any of
this you know
yeah you and they're tilted in the
morning sometimes with us yeah
yeah it's time but this might perfect
a great deal yeah probably not the two
in the morning ones but yes
those are different issues yes
everything yes
okay yeah you're exactly right thanks
for having great thank you
thank you um kathy any other business
no other business all right we are
adjourned