okay
okay you can go ahead and start i'll
pull up everything
we'll call to order the july 21st 2022
special meeting for the bexley
architectural review board
i can we call the roll
here mr scott here mr here
here
uh the next item on our agenda is to do
public comment so this is a part of the
meeting that you can come forward and
speak about something that is not on the
agenda
on our agenda tonight are the two uh
projects so if it's if you want to speak
to the to the arb about anything that's
not one of those two projects you can
come forward and
seeing nothing
uh okay i think we're gonna skip the
approval of minutes from last uh
week because none of us have had a
chance to review all those so we will do
that at the following arb meeting
okay we are going to start with the um
cassidy avenue project right
well first what we're going to do is
have the applicant
give a general introduction um because
some of their background research was
both pro for both project was similar so
instead of doing it twice we'll have
them come up
um and give kind of their background and
process information and history timeline
um
before we before we specifically okay so
you'll come up and give your background
and then we'll move right in to have you
uh
review the cassidy project first
and then we'll do all the public comment
um and the review from the board on that
and then we will go to the livingston
project does that sound good that's
awesome
you come up kathy we'll spare you in
sure uh kevin durant here from rdl
can you push the um button on there
thank you so much
yes we could do that kevin drake as well
as rdl architects
yes i do
so here on behalf of the community
builders and
both the cassidy and east livingston
projects and thank you for
um
a special meeting in your presence here
and thanks everyone
behind me uh i appreciate it we're
sincerely looking for for input as these
projects move forward
um
and
just wanted to talk a little bit about
where where we've been and where we're
going uh we did a couple slides as part
of the cassidy proposal that talk a
little bit about this but i can
certainly
talk to it in the meantime also so we
were last here in
january of 2021 the community builders
had identified a couple of sites really
late in 2020
and so we brought those projects
after some city staff input
as part of the funding cycle for the low
income housing tax credits these are
both affordable housing we understand
that's an important part of bexley's
strategic plan
and
so
that went in for funding in
early 2021 that first application was
not successful it's a very competitive
process and then
we resubmitted in the early part of this
year and so that's that's why that long
gap has
has occurred that this project was
funding was announced in very end of may
of this year so
we're back and resuming the project but
we also didn't want to
move forward without we don't know we
knew there was a lot of comments the
last time we were here we do want to
have that input so for both of these
projects you're going to see something
that looks
essentially like what we showed you last
time and that's not because we dug our
heels in it's really the opposite that
we're we didn't want to go forward until
we had the opportunity to get your
feedback so this is not a request for
approval at this meeting this is an
attempt to get
everyone's input
and kind of revisit where we are and
refresh people after that project um
these are both as i said affordable
housing
tax credit funded partially funded
projects
and just as a little bit of background
for those who aren't familiar
you know those are projects that um
you know are targeted towards certain
certain income ranges for the for the
residents
but what's important to know is these
are
sometimes people here affordable and
it's not
necessarily
made affordable by lower restrictions
they're actually more stringent
our building requirements than market
rate we have to follow prevailing wage
rates
we have a substantial amount of
accessibility requirements we have to
double basically the code requirements
and the regulatory requirements for
accessibility
the ohio housing finance agency has a
substantial
list of requirements superimposed that
are sustainable design that are
durability that are
um
could go and go into detail more but
generally speaking that yeah we have to
perform at at a higher level than we
would if we were market rate
typically these are projects that are
60 or so units in this case we're
divided between
two sites
smaller scale projects which we think is
a good fit for
bexley compared to a single larger
building and certainly fit the available
sites better but we also are dealing in
projects that are always
challenging for funding we've now added
double the stair cores double the number
of elevators so just as as background
that's that's where we are
um we're expecting to come back for
the august meeting in the arb and
with with new information
coming from what we hear tonight
and then the nature of that process is
there's actually a
fairly
detailed set of construction documents
due in september
our problem not yours it's the nature of
the schedule but
just as a way of saying you know the
clarity and direction and discussion you
provide tonight will be helpful to us
and with that
ready to either take general questions
or move on do you want any of your
slides up
i think i've covered everything in those
introductory slides and whenever we're
ready for cassidy we can move on to
those
okay
don't mean to just okay so um the
the application number bzap 20-52
the applicant especially cic the owner
is 420 north cassidy avenue llc
the location is 420 north chassidy
avenue the applicant is seeking
architectural review and approval for a
three-story structure with commercial on
the first floor and residential on the
second and third floors the application
was remanded to arb final design
approval as a condition of the visa
approval
and just to make note this will also
require a demolition right for this
project there's a building there that
would be demoed as part of this correct
yes that's correct okay
um
one or two
one
um
yeah good observation
um
this application was approved at the
board of zoning and planning with the
condition that the design be remanded
back to the architecture review board
which
saw this project once
um did not
really consider the architecture but
rather the footprint and context of just
the site plan
we didn't do an extensive design review
because it didn't really make sense in
the typical process just for background
is that a building will come before arb
and if it needs zoning we'll give a
recommendation one way or the other um
this was as i'm sure all of you know um
uh and
a zoning case that was before bees up
for for a few meetings a couple till two
or three in the morning
um
and
we what we did at this board was saw it
once knowing that it had an intense
zoning process to go through to re and
ask that it the condition of bees app
approval among other things tree and
public gardens commission but specific
to this meeting is that it be remanded
back here for design review that's all
we're doing at this meeting so um
this this meeting not that it's all it's
it's important but it's only this is not
about the zoning this is just about
um the architecture of the proposed
building the footprint has remained the
same as it was approved at zoning it's
about the skin of the building and about
the style of the building and materials
and color
i've i've made some staff comments that
our board has seen it's been online my
staff report was posted
i think yesterday so
many of you may or may not have seen
that but i really don't want to do much
talking myself i want to give the public
the chance
um
you know under our chairperson to ask
questions about the design or make
comments about the proposed design uh as
well as the board and like um kevin the
applicant has said we're
i as staff i'm under the impression that
this meeting is to make progress in
understanding the comments about the
design suggestions not to design it not
to redesign it but to take what is
presented to us and make comments so
that we can have
um a very good pro uh
proactive month before the meeting in
august
um i'm anticipating a table i can't say
that it's going to be tabled that's up
to the applicant to ask for a tabling
and we'll get to that at the end of each
case
um
my
the considerations the sighting and the
massing are kind of already been
considered that was the only thing that
we had considered at the first
architecture review board meeting and so
what is left to me in my view is the
compatibility with the neighborhood with
the streetscape um
with the city of back fleet the
architecture and kind of zeitgeist
if you will um
so the purpose i've already gone over
the purpose of this review i did want to
make a comment i'm sure sudan um
chairman tony is going to make this
anyway but we um are going to
uh told the applicant that he would have
10 minutes you were under 10 minutes but
um
we are also going to have time time
limits for speakers because we're
anticipating that there are many of you
so you'll hear my buzzer go off at three
minutes if you're giving testimony i'm
not gonna be super rude and just cut you
off i would like you very much to
respect the timer though and when you
hear the buzzer at three minutes please
wrap up your comments we have a lot of
people that are going to make comments
i'm anticipating and we'd like to give
everybody equal opportunity
um
and we'll have one
comment per person so try to get in what
you want to say then and there
um
the the specific comments toward the
design that i'm just going to throw out
there um just
maybe it'll save you can it'll help
condense some of the the comments
um as staff i'm concerned and i've
already related to the applicant about
um some of the materials represented the
the
we need to see material boards we need
to understand what the materials are
what the colors are some nuances of the
building
a lot of that would be answered by what
i consider a really critical piece of
presentation which and i've already
discussed this with the applicant is not
included in this packet and that is some
kind and i personally don't care what
kind of 3d rep representation of this
building in its context so that we can
really understand how it sits um among
the other houses among the other
buildings commercial buildings what's on
the other side of the street um
totally they've totally agreed and and
if you have the opportunity to go to um
the architecture firm's website you can
see that that has been part of their
kind of mo in all the projects that they
have done so i don't anticipate we'll
have any problems with that that's just
part of the design process but i have
requested that a three-dimensional
representation with site context be
provided for the next hearing
um
as well as as i already stated material
boards because there are a couple
options here and we'll hear opinions and
guidance on
materials style etc but i think we need
to expand that more into
not just discussion next time and not
just rendering but also seeing the
actual materials and their combinations
together so material boards
would be also um important the other um
condition just for your
just just for your knowledge is that and
it won't be done here tonight but this
will also go before the public tree and
gardens commissions for all the
landscape work that needs to be done
so those kind of comments are valuable
i'm happy to hear them but we're really
concentrating on the actual building
design tonight
i think that's
a good staff summary i don't want to
give too much of my opinion because i
want
to give everyone else the opportunity so
i'll hand it over to um chairperson tony
so would you like to present the cassidy
project to us and to
just talk to us about what your concept
is and
um
the amenities that you're providing and
things like that just so we have a good
understanding about the project sure
sure we'd be happy to
let's see
and you've got the that's supposed to
graphics on their way up very good um
one thing i forgot to mention in the
general introduction is the last time we
were here there was a
strong suggestion that we go and
look at some you know particular bexley
uh landmarks we were familiar with some
we we thank you for the opportunity to
become more familiar and learn a little
bit about miller and reeves uh so
we're we're showing those just really to
both as reference if we need to go back
to those and
just to say we certainly appreciated the
suggestion and we've
we've done that in
a number of ways and you just kind of
parse through those but you know we do
see
bexley as you know fitting in very well
with what other inner ring suburbs in
the 1920s did which was look to
all sorts of uh
eclectic historic revival
styles and also that actually have their
own take on it particularly in some of
the materials and
the prevalence of that rough limestone
is something we noticed uh especially
so uh
cassidy the site ariel is here it's uh
the darker asphalt rectangle you see
that's occupied by the you know the
former one-story commercial building
that's now being used as the bexley
senior center as a new development since
we were here last time and we'll talk a
little further but we understand that
that's
uh
we did not know who the tenant would be
in the ground floor when we were here
last time and we have heard now that
that that is
going to be a permanent part of this
project so
we're we're excited by that that um
informs and we'll change our
or
develop help develop our design of the
ground floor but that's that's news to
us this week
this is the site you know obviously
we've got
single family one one to two story
residential
surrounding us that's uh north cassidy
on the left side of the site columbus
avenue on the north
and move on to context photos
this is
the existing
site
and including the alley in in the rear
largely large paved with the exception
of the building and and the immediate
context
here
as as we looked at some of the the older
historic contexts
we noticed that there's not a lot of
that in the immediate
periphery of the building
a lot of mid-century buildings things
that we're
noticing particularly are some of those
wider siding boards certainly some of
that
limestone
facing in in various forms and then next
slide moving to
some of the broader surrounding context
um
some
more traditional style buildings more of
that stone and that lower left one
we were particularly
taken with just as that large
format shake siding that's something
that we'd like to explore as the
material that might
inform this project you know perhaps
not a natural wood but some other
material but that's we'll talk about
that in a little bit more
are the plans in this packet in the
packet
um
this appears not to be
the updated version though
oh okay
i have downloaded all of it so
we're a little bit out of order got an
older version there
that that would be that's the one i had
trouble opening
all right then we can skip these these
are the
the visuals to go with the introduction
so we can move past those
yeah i'll tell you what i'm going to do
well
it's a really big file which is why it's
taking a long time to come up
um
in the meantime i'm just going to pull
it up on my computer
so i believe is
this one
six or seven there
okay um
site so
this is a
site where we felt it was important to
address the the corner of the
intersection um
right the
commercial space is
located on that that upper half of the
of the building footprint
um
with
as we'll see when we get to the plan
some of the building common areas and
amenities
lower so parking is
really as we had presented before this
footprint is it's the same as you've
seen before and has went to
to the zoning approvals but
parking spaces are along the rear
property line
some green space to the rear of the
building
and then looking at creating a
broad sidewalk along those streets that
can accommodate some activity spilling
out from the building particularly from
the commercial
space
go to the next
so the the commercial space that you see
there where we haven't yet had time to
absorb what the
future tenants specific programming
needs are we expect that will
change it may even potentially expand a
little bit you can see kind of a dotted
rectangle up to the right
but more more on that next time we're
here inside we feel it's important for
the residential space to have an
entrance to north cassidy so that comes
out from the lobby to the left to the
right
is the access from the parking lot
and then the the active space of the
amenities the
property management office the community
room the fitness room are lining that
north cassidy avenue side and providing
some
activity transparent to the street
next
slide
and then we have 16 residential units
eight on each floor
majority of them one bedrooms with a
couple of two bedrooms on
on each floor
and then
the elevations this is a
we recognize is a taller building than
the ones that are in its immediate
context
uh this is a 14 foot
floor to ceiling height for that ground
floor space
and which provides flexibility not only
for a kind of larger volume that's more
appropriate for a public space but also
for
you never know what happens to a
building further on down their life
keeping it open and flexible to whatever
might
happen in the future but retail spaces
you know typically require
those taller
ceiling heights
uh we are showing
a
let's say in the upper left you can see
the clump are cassidy avenue facade
the living spaces typically have a
large flashlight and then an insane door
the railing in front of it kind of a
juliet balcony arrangement so there's a
way for
some activity for residents to
engage with the with the street
uh it's not an occupiable balcony but it
does
provide a little bit of connection to
the outdoors for forever level units
you can see those lighter white elements
are projecting from the face of the
facade typically
then
across the face we have a stone base our
intent is to come as close as we can to
matching
some of the typical
local examples of that rough
limestone including the mortar joints
that are kind of
flush with that stone and that random
martial art kind of pattern we have not
identified specifically what that is and
we expect to have that next time we are
here that ground floor height going back
to that some of those context elevations
up at the top
is roughly in line with eve heights of
adjacent
buildings we're trying to write kind of
a solid grounded space there at the same
time
certainly some
transparency to the activity that's
going beyond there
we
are as we look at the new programming of
the ground floor we're certainly limited
by
structural
requirements that we do need to get some
solid walls in in the ground floor for
lateral bracing so that that may change
just the position of where some of those
transparent areas are
that finally
a little bit of information on materials
some examples of that reference so
we are suggesting
fiber cement side exciting products
either at that kind of
wider lap siding or that
wider profile cedar shape
for simulated shape
appearance and then
some aluminum storefront on the ground
store and
final windows this
what's proposed
look forward to hearing
people's input
thank you
okay can i have a show of hands of the
people that want to speak about this
application
i see three um
three or four okay
so um if you wouldn't mind just maybe
start on this end of the room and just
kind of work your way across
one of you uh
with only four for kathy do you want to
do one
general swearing in or just do each
person as they come up
okay
okay yeah just come up to the podium uh
kathy will swear you in
and again we're asking you to keep your
comments to three minutes
okay
kidding
barb griner
yes
first i would like you to reconsider
design on cassidy avenue it actually is
an established community made up of
traditional houses
built in the 1900s the design of cassidy
structure does not fit or does reflect
the traditional landscape of bexley
i saw the proposed sched
i saw this
pose
uh sketch um
the cassidy avenue does not fit into
bexley um i don't know if you were
trying to match the mismatch apartment
buildings across the street which are
totally out of sync also so we don't
want to repeat the same mistake
i know this is only in the planning
stages
but i would like for you to reconsider
your design and make it more
applicable to bexley and to fit into our
traditional landscape my second concern
is parking
i am at the senior center every day i
see the people that come in and out of
the building
this building is full of life and used
by the senior population
i will say with confidence if the future
site of this senior center does not
include at least 20 to 25 dedicated
parking spots
they will not come
you can build this facility but they
will not come
parking on the street will not be
adequate for them if they have to worry
about every time where they have to park
for a class or an event they will not
come
they have fear of falling
parking on the street or using an
unpredictable sidewalk to get here will
increase their fear and therefore will
keep them from coming
understand
if and when a person of age falls it
impacts their life every on every level
both physically and mentally
this concern is real
the winter months just add another
leather of fear
with a dedicated parking lot without a
dedicated parking lot well with a
dedicated parking lot that they know
will be plowed by eight o'clock every
morning they will come to activities and
and have a much safer option
based on the time i spent at the senior
center and with conversations i've had
with people who use the center safe
parking options need to go hand in hand
with any further future provost senior
center
we now have a total of 19 parking spots
in the front of the current building and
that serves the participants well i have
pictures of the last two days of parking
at the center if you'd like to see them
uh to to react to um
just back up what i'm trying to say to
you
um i've worked for the department's
direct department for 33 years
i know what citizens of bexley want
i rarely come and speak publicly i've
done it once in 33 years that was about
schneider park
um when i talked to mike about my future
part-time job here he said i really want
you to get involved with the senior
center because i know how passionate you
get about bexley
in issues
well let me tell you i am very
passionate about the center
and about the parking for these people
if you do not have on-site parking there
will not be people coming to your center
so you'll be wasting your money
thank you
next person
yes please
david green
yes i do
uh i'm here to speak about the uh
design since this is an architectural
review
but uh this design disappoints me
it after
apparently the design team spent
over a year
studying
relevant buildings
they still didn't come up with a
residential look
the window shape the overall shape is
not a residential look supposed to be
residential why does low-cost
residential have to look ugly
uh it could just be smaller i
it doesn't have to so
this is
sort of a minimalist design and i the
window shape the window science does not
reflect
residential character and bexley from my
point of view
it doesn't
they didn't take what they saw and try
to apply it and it's not that hard the
hard part is getting the internal part
to work
putting the windows in shouldn't be that
hard putting the out outside
roof line shouldn't be that hard
this should be a minimal upgrade
they don't have to change the number of
units they don't have to change any of
that that's the hard part
they just have to change the look of the
outside which is fairly simple and
different materials uh masonry or brick
would be much preferable and i don't
even know what materials they used
also
it would be nice
if they could justify the design based
on minimizing heat gain
buildings that
in modern times they're going to have a
lot of heat gain
minimizing
heating and cooling would be something
you could justify in a design
so i think that should be something that
would be very important
i don't see that here maybe it is but i
haven't i don't see it um
i like to see functionality i like to
see compatibility i like to see
something that reminds me of a
residential neighborhood and when you
drive by it you don't say what was that
you just don't notice it you just drive
right by it and it blends right in and
you don't even notice it so i don't
think they got that effect here so
try again i don't have to redesign the
whole thing but just get the look right
i think the look is all wrong and i
think they should have done a better job
with all the time they had on their
hands and i hope they do a better job on
livingston thank you
thank you
next person please
i basically just have a question
can you please be sworn in
elizabeth morris
[Music]
i do
okay i attended the meetings by zoom
last time around and one of the things
that i i live directly across the street
i left 425 north cassidy avenue i didn't
quite understand there aren't really a
lot of like
fluent or flush looks on cassidy avenue
stops pretty much at maryland and rural
then it's like a lot of
offbeat things from the little dairy
mart to the yoga place which did a great
job it used to be art by anna which did
a great job i i didn't understand like
what they were trying to be fluent or
flush with i i heard a lot of people
talk about the livingston avenue and
they they seem to have like a certain
feel about what their area looks like
and it's repetitive our street is not
like that so i'm not sure about that the
other thing is this might not have to do
with anything architecturally but i
didn't understand maybe somebody can
explain it to me if you're doing low
income housing why are they
predominantly all one bedrooms it just
seems like the need for people that are
moving to bexley is because i mean it's
for schools and you have maryland avenue
school you have a playground right there
you have the bexley pool right down the
street so
a person that rents a one bedroom where
are they gonna put their kids
and um so that's just really all i had
to say but i don't i don't understand
what they compared it to on that street
because there's nothing there's no
continuous look
you know my dad built houses for
predominantly all the stone houses in
bexley i don't really see too much stone
on that on that building right there you
know if that was in grand view
someplace else and could kind of
understand it not in bexley
okay thank you thank you
next person please
peggy lazarus
yes
[Music]
hi i'm
i'm here i just want to reiterate and
reinforce something that barb griner
said because i think it's very important
to the project
uh i'm involved with the senior center
too
not in the office every day and keeping
track of who's coming in and out and
certainly not for 32 years um
and i've just become aware of this
project but i think if it is the
assumption
that the senior center will occupy
part of this ground floor space
in my opinion the footprint of it has to
change
and it has to change now
we need the parking
we need to maintain the same level of
interaction and support and activity
that the center has generated
in the last nine months it's just
extraordinary it's busy all the time if
we don't have safe and secure parking
it's going to put the center at a huge
disadvantage
so i see that that has to be considered
right now and i also would ask you what
role will the zoning portion of this
project play
in that outcome
could you fill me in on that so the
zoning is actually the people that uh
rule on the parking we are architectural
and so we look at the details of the
building but this group does not look at
the parking
so unfortunately um i don't know that
there's anything that we can address in
this meeting the footprint of the
building
can definitely be addressed in this part
of the process because if that doesn't
allow for housing you're all going back
to the drawing boards
which will cost the developer a lot of
time and money
so shared my thoughts thank you for the
opportunity thank you
is there another person that wants to
speak about this project
sam goes
absolutely
i'm just asking you really a question i
don't know if it can be addressed at
this time or later
my major concern in this whole
project is the fact that
cassidy avenue has quite a lot of
traffic through bexley and i don't know
if this is a
part of the architectural review
committee's concerns but the building
construction when that happens
is going to tie up a lot of a lot of
traffic and especially with fifth avenue
undergoing
an expansion
that's going to close off our uh
railroad access
to 570 and 670
um
has that even considered
access
uh what their what's what they're
they're uh they sent out some things
about an expansion taking place in 2020
23 rather
and i'm figuring this
this construction is going to possibly
be at the same time
so i don't know how people on the north
part of execute are going to be able to
use fifth avenue and get onto 670 or
when two projects are going
because there's times on cassidy avenue
where cars are backed up to to at least
rule and sometimes to maryland waiting
to cross the tracks
in some
construction projects over the years we
have had
routes to sites
and something
just described
the trucks that go on fifth avenue that
try to come on to cassidy
frequently you know they have to stop
and move with things back so
i don't want to if that's not
apropos for this meeting i understand
and who did the notice come from
columbus columbus city columbus okay and
i thought they were in conjunction with
mexico i don't know well i work in the
building department not the service
department so um i will certainly make a
note and check into it this
is going to impact i think the bexley
side also the other track anyway
so i don't know where the bexley line is
before or after the track
so thank you
is there another person that wants to
speak about this
particular project
okay seeing none um
i'm going to turn it over to the board
but before i do that i just want to say
i believe these are the same plans that
we saw a little over a year ago
and i know at that meeting we gave you
um quite a bit of feedback we asked you
that you go look at different projects
around town
and because you came back with the exact
same drawings
i don't really feel like it's
appropriate for us to give you any
more specific feedback
we were looking for a totally different
design when you brought it before us
today and so because it is exactly the
same we feel like we have given you some
feedback already and we were expecting
something to be revised
so um
i'll start down the board and each
person can talk about you know what they
specifically see but i'm asking everyone
to keep it short because um we have
already done this with you so
okay so i will start with uh pete scott
you're welcome
uh i was part of that meeting and um had
plenty to say um
but i don't i have to go back and really
read through those minutes again
remember all of it um
also fairly surprised to see there's
obviously some more materials and things
that have been submitted um the the
biggest surprise was the the context and
the things that you reference
um about being part of bexley
for context the eclectic nature of some
of the architecture
and materials and i get materials it's a
pretty easy correlation but
um none of that really affects the the
design
uh and again i get it you haven't been
actually working on this for a year i
understand that i know i kind of
understand how the process works but
um you know the building my
my my big comment that i'm almost sure i
did not talk about before is that really
the the cassidy avenue commercial aspect
of the
uh that facing facade of the building
um
the the street interaction where you
have the the kind of pedestrian
and the vehicular uh
facade and the the architectural
how you're handling that
uh relationship on the the architecture
side of that first floor
and the the look of the facade above but
then also that kind of just carries and
wraps the entire building and i think
that that you're really losing
a
contextual relationship of the the
really kind of commercial side versus
the much different scale of the
residential side
um i think there really needs to be a
difference to that facade those facades
um i also don't like how you're you know
just doing a band of stone around the
base of the building um i don't think
that works at all here
uh i do
appreciate the fact that you're looking
at stone and that material
material costs have changed dramatically
over the last year uh brick is actually
we're seeing is the least expensive
uh which is ironic but uh so you know
i'm interested to see how you come back
with different building materials that
tie into the to the neighborhood a
little bit better it is an eclectic
street it has a lot going on so i don't
think there's one
specific architectural element that you
can point to and say this is what
we think we're gonna we're gonna relate
to i think you can be your own entity
but still fall into that fabric of the
neighborhood of the street
and i think my last comment um so far
will be i feel like it's fairly busy i
think your your roof lines the scale of
this building
you know it feels large it's really not
a very large building
though it is fairly tall at 42 feet
and i think and i get that because the
raised first floor retail does that a
little bit and gets this up being a
three-story building but
um the roof line just feels overly busy
and i think i would be interested in
seeing that being cleaned up a little
bit especially as you start to explore
the different materials
um
but i think overall the the quality of
the
the design
and the materials and the way the forms
are put together feels
it feels like low-income housing and i
don't think that's the goal right i
think you have a challenge i know you
have a very big challenge on the
requirements based on the tax credits
and things that you get and the funding
and those additional overlays of those
requirements because anytime you're
building market rate uh apartments
that's challenging enough and as you
put additional uh requirements based on
the funding uh you're really stretching
every dollar to this maximum but
um
it's going to be really important to
have a design
that
wins right and beats beats out those
requirements and it doesn't necessarily
mean you have to wrap the thing in
copper right or
something overly expensive as a building
material but it has to be done really
really well
and balanced really well so that one it
talks to each side of the because every
side has a different relationship to the
neighborhood and the context
but also that it addresses the street
and pedestrian vehicular traffic um and
also the scale of neighboring buildings
yeah
mr higher
i guess uh i would just be
kind of reiterating um what
the uh our design consultant ms bokor
said about
asking for some 3d representation
i think that's important especially when
you have a demolition involved
and to see the context of a project of
this scale
i assume that this project is being done
in revit or some kind of
three-dimensional you know software so i
don't think it's too much to ask you
know that we see the neighborhood
context
along with it
um
i would agree with
mr scott and would also add that
in 2011 if you're you've probably seen
the bexley land use strategy plan
and if you haven't you should take a
look at that because that was the first
step
in um
the development of north cassidy that
was formalized
it included
buildings that were zero lot line uh on
north cassidy have you seen the have you
seen this okay so you're familiar with
it for the public's
sake
this building certainly uh falls in that
kind of massing that was you know asked
for in this in the land use strategy
plan
um mixed use three to four stories there
was a rendering
in that um
land use strategy which i think is
important because
and you can find it online if you type
in bexley land use strategy plan it
comes right up for those who don't know
but the idea was that on north cassidy
that there would be
a series of buildings that would be
mixed use
so this is not out of line it just
happens to be the first
i will say though that the aesthetic
that was implied and that the land use
strategy commission
uh was interested in were buildings that
were simple that were brick
and that sort of
uh
i guess that's the best way to say it's
simple and brick and the materials were
darker they're rich the details were
simple but elegant
this is important i think
to maintain what we heard from the
public in terms of the character of
bexley
this is not a residential house so we're
not talking about single-family
residents which actually has a lot of
wonderful single family residences and
they have their own
what i'll call typological character
things that are specific or should be
specific to a single family residence as
opposed to
multi-family or you know low-income
housing
also it's not a commercial or an
institutional building
it's mixed use
and in bexley this is
this is a new language
so it's important that
uh you know the applicant understand
that
to understand the sensitivity of this
first of what may be several projects in
this corridor that are of the same
nature and to set the tone
for that
development
so
um
[Music]
i would say that the ins and outs and
this is what i mentioned in the last
review of this project was the you know
the too much breakup in the roof line
uh too many ins and outs i understand
the material limitations of cement board
and you can't go long runs with that so
as mr scott and i think some of our
public
um
uh had said you know that the brick
would be certainly a nice option but i
would suggest that like your cleveland
project one of the ones you showed that
that simplicity and that elegance
in brick can help to subdue the project
and make it sort of feel more
part of the streetscape and again it's
the first stage of what we think will be
several of these so
how do you do that and i think that's
for you know because we're just giving
you input for the next round um i would
take that you know seriously
um i think there were other people in in
the public that came up
to talk about this project the last time
around they were excited about the idea
that
um
a more contemporary project would be in
north bexley because it's kind of
more contemporary
feeling talked about community and they
talked about you know they're not like
the rest of uh you know
more traditional bexley in many ways and
so they want to have a
slightly different character however
i think you have to be careful with
the material
use and the language you know because we
still are it is still part of bexley and
we want to make sure we maintain that
so
with all of that being said uh um i
think there's a lot of challenges here
to make that work your floor plan has a
lot of ins and outs and
i don't know how you regularize that
your roof lines have a lot of ins and
outs direct i don't know how to
regularize that right off and it's not
for us to design it but
i think sometimes we overthink and over
design these things to get a
contemporary look we see a lot of that
in columbus
and bexley just really doesn't do that
i was doing a drive-through with an
intern in my office
earlier this week looking at a lot of
the details of houses and commercial
buildings because we're drawing them
and we just noticed that there's sort of
a humbleness
to a lot of the details that we find in
bexley even on the bigger houses
especially the older ones
so the good proportion um sort of a a
restfulness about the architecture and
bexley is important even if you want to
be contemporary and simple
so for the next round i would take that
to heart and
consider that um
that's really all i have for this one
miss kraske
so the nice thing about going almost
last because suzanne will
last is that a lot of times pete and
bill
say a lot of the things that i've
already commented on so or written down
um so i agree with everything that pete
said i'll just make that statement i
agree with everything that bill said
and i also agree with
karen's staff report and specifically
the 3d presentation you know looking at
this in 3d
showing us examples showing us
renderings that's going to be important
and showing those renderings in context
to
the adjacent commercial and homes
um
the materials are not i think doing any
favors for the project right now
and so i agree that
those need to be looked at again and the
proportion of those materials
um
how where they are on the building in
terms of you know your levels
i agree that there is a lot of in and
out
if you can simplify that that would be
good
um
[Music]
i don't i mean obviously you haven't
gone into cds but
you know one thing that because i i am a
north bexley resident i live not too far
from this and i travel cassidy all the
time
um
i want to make sure that like your
mechanicals we're not going to see a
bunch of mechanicals on the roof and i'm
not sure if you're
you know doing these units with like
heat pumps or you know what you're doing
but
you know i wouldn't want to see a bunch
of mechanicals on the roof
um so
however that gets transpired that's just
you know something that you'll want to
think about
i think
a lot of good comments were brought up
by
uh
residents who came up to speak today and
so i would
i think you need to take those to heart
concerning even though we can't
necessarily comment on some of those i
think those need to be taken to heart in
terms of the design in terms of your
tenant that's going in
um and who will be coming you know to
uh
that uh that tenant space the the senior
center
um
[Music]
if there's anything else
i think that's good i think that's it
thank you
so i don't remember exactly what my
comments were the last time but um
to me
i i don't know what this project is and
it again i don't feel like it relates to
bexley in any way um
so i don't i think you just need to go
back to what the concept is of the look
um you know and just pick one it's
there's a i think quite a few approaches
that could work whether it's a row house
look or just you know
drive around bexley drive around
columbus into a lot of the new
neighborhoods that are being developed
there's so many really nice three-story
apartment buildings that are being built
and i know that your budget is not where
some of those are but i think if you
just look at their overall concept what
was the concept and how did it work
um i think you you really need to go
back to the drawing board and start over
with what this does
i agree with the simplicity of just you
know
the end of the building is brick or just
something that has that that relates to
the neighbors and and what's around it
so
um so hopefully that gives you enough
information so that you
can bring us something different next
month that
and and we if we get something different
next month that is gets us much you know
much closer then we'll get into the the
details of you know the eaves and
you know how the brick is detailed and
things like that to try to get us closer
so
okay
okay so uh
uh we will move on then to the
oh yes yes
because this is a separate application
yeah so if you if you table it you will
automatically go on to next month which
is only three weeks away
okay because this meeting was a special
meeting a week later you would in three
weeks you would need to come back with a
complete full new design
so would you like it to be tabled to
that meeting august 11th
yes okay
so do we need to make a motion on that
or
yeah okay well someone moved to
so moved second
i will call the role
mr krosky yes mr scott yes mr heyer yes
adam tony yes
okay so in three weeks we'll
bring this up again and review the new
design
okay so we're going to move on to the
next project then that is application
bzap
20-48 the applicant is community
builders the owner is sally woodyard the
location is 2300 east livingston avenue
the applicant is seeking architectural
review and approval for a three-story
structure with residential use on the
first
second and third floors this application
was remanded to the arb for final design
approval as a condition of approval from
these app
so again if you want to
kind of give us an overall
presentation on this project that way
sure we'll do um
karen is bringing that up unlike the the
previous project this one has
uh some iterations since you last
saw it
that
we can stop and talk about the site if
we need to or if we want to
keep on moving i guess we'll keep on
moving
if we maybe just touch briefly on the
context before you get too far ahead
there
uh let's go back one
there we go so
just kind of
touching base we did um let's say when
we were here in january of
2021 it was the more
transitional for lack of a better word
scheme and we did hear i think
particularly from the community that
there was some interest in
making a building that was a little bit
more on the traditional end so we do
want to highlight these
apartment buildings that are in columbus
a couple blocks down the street in the
upper left that were highlighted to us
at that
previous meeting and some of those
community comments
again much of the rest of the street
isn't necessarily
you know it's mostly sighting a lot of
synthetic sighting uh similar on francis
on the next but there are those two
red brick buildings that are
in a tudor style and a couple other that
are finished in a similar way
site plan um
this is
the previous site plan i think there's
our
type and uh
landscape designer is not here today so
we'll
not touch much on that and i know that's
more for the trade commission anyway
what we did want to talk about on the
next slide is
since we were here last we know the
joint livingston avenue plan has has
been introduced
and this is the site that is
right at the intersection of the
commercial standards of that joint
livingston avenue plan at the
residential standards
the residential standards show a
larger tree lawn and a narrow path the
commercial standards show the urban
sidewalk going right up to the building
face
where we are interested a little bit
your feedback as to
how that's implemented here we have a
very rough sketch on the next slide from
the site designer
talking about how that might be they're
envisioning maybe something where that
sidewalk like commercial standards does
come up to the building face and some
planters along the building face
we do know that there are concerns about
traffic veering beyond the cartway we
know that those tree pits that might be
a buffer for that
path between the path and the building
there might be some ways that we're just
showing some examples from elsewhere
that
ways to reduce
uh the possibility that
traffic
can can actually encroach onto that that
pedestrian path so just wanted to put
that
at least preliminary idea for
consideration
uh next slide
and we are
in context of the previous question
of the
mix of units is looked at as a
combination or it's a balance of the mix
between those two projects so there are
more
one bedrooms and two bedrooms on the
other side this site is more
predominantly two bedrooms and
three bedrooms so
that
there's a meeting that mix of the needs
that the developer has seen by by
looking at the two buildings together
it's refreshing people's memories we do
have
two-story units that protrude out a
little bit on the east side of the
building facing francis
those are
townhouse grow house-like in
in nature because they're two-story
units but they do still have access to
the interior common space of the
building and
the
amenities that are there but also
provides an opportunity to put some
front doors on the street and give
francis avenue a little bit more of a
residential character as that building
turns the corner
and then
moving to the next plans again
residential units above
a total of 27 units
on the project and
we're in the same same situation as we
are on the other side in that we've got
a basic mass to the building to
accommodate the density that's funded to
keep this as a viable project and
looking at then how do we
skin that mass and adjust it to
to meet people's
concerns and input
so just a brief history on where we've
been with the design we did start with a
more contemporary design
that you see at the top city staff
advises to look at something that was
more transitional which is the one in
the middle
subsequent to the last arb review we did
look at a more
very strictly traditional
scheme
so we can keep on going past that but in
terms of the bexley precedence we're
looking at you know it's it's a little
bit of a
it's informed a little bit certainly by
the
tudor revival across the street it's
also informed by probably most and
similar in massing to
trinity
lutheran seminary
we do see a potential again for that
lighter palette of materials uh whether
it's rendered in brick as we're showing
or else
ways to have like the ohio governor's
residence or sessions village that those
are a
lighter pallet interpretation of
of that tudor revival style but we're
we're showing a couple different pallet
options for feedback
so
this design is
you know very much
a
trying to be a straight up pattern book
computer revival
project it is primarily brick on the
outside
with half timbering elements that
continue through we certainly
looked at and happy to continue to look
at how much of the half timbering
continues around the corner onto the
livingston avenue side
in this case we've got
less of that half timbering because
where we heard that there was a desire
to have a larger proportion of brick but
we're open to input there
we do have some limitations on that
francis side that bringing brick up
higher supporting that above the roof
line with you know the steel that would
be required to support that above the
roof gets a little challenging so we've
kept that brick a little bit lower we do
have those
roof
gable elements that are protruding and
the porches that are protruding off of
that facade to break them start to break
down that mass a little bit as it turns
the corner on francis
and then the facade treatment on
the rear side is simplified both because
you know we've
turned some of the roof line into a
mansard to help bring that eve line down
and try and reduce the perceived scale
that's of course the roof that's sloping
back so a gable on the back side
doesn't really work with roof drainage
also it's the side of the building
that's
very difficult to see from anyone but a
resident in the parking lot
finally
we have
looked at a
more traditional um
maybe not more traditional but more
common red brick
dark brown half timbering as opposed to
the lighter option we're open to either
only to say that
darker windows are difficult to get and
harder to keep that color stable so we
also think that there may be some
benefit
to the the lighter palette in terms of
being able to work with the windows that
that could be supported
here
and then
some examples of materials were you know
we're very preliminary selections but
where that range of bricks might be
where we would be prepared to offer
certainly much more detail next time
we're here
thank you okay thank you
okay um let's go with the
how many people want to speak about this
application
okay again i'm only seeing three or four
people so let's uh start at this end of
the room and come on up and uh yeah yeah
we'll start with you and uh kathy will
swear you in as you come up
please state your name
timothy g madison do you solemnly swear
or firm the testimony you're about to
give this evening is the truth i do
thank you um
chairman tony member of zarb my name is
tim madison
i live in 956 pleasant ridge i've been
there about four years i've also lived
in several seven other homes
six other homes throughout bexley
for better or worse i've lived in bexley
47 of my 57 years
on this earth and i say that because um
i've been on livingston avenue for all
47 years i drive on that street every
single day of my life i sit in my
backyard and i listen to the motorcycles
and the cars race the police sirens and
while that doesn't destroy my
peace and quiet i can't imagine this
development and people putting
home this development that's intended
for in the words of the developer at
least 45 children that are going to be
in this in the 58 bedrooms
it makes no sense there is no worst
place in the entire city of bexley to
locate 45 to 60 kids
than this place on the corner of
livingston and francis this is and i
know we're here to talk about the design
and that's my concern this is no design
for 45 to 60 children look at can you
put up the site plan for me please
show me where the children are going to
play 45 to 60 children there's a parking
spot a sparking spot size for 45 to 60
children that's it
there's virtually no trees there's
virtually no green space there's nothing
this is a design nightmare and i will go
on the record as saying it is my belief
that children will die
from walking on livingston going across
down place college avenue to get to all
the beautiful area in mayfield ferndale
i encourage all of you
to join the facebook the livingston
avenue facebook page to see how almost
once a week there's a new car accident
on livingston avenue there was a car
accident six months ago exactly where
this building is going to be placed the
monument sign was torn out by a car that
went through the street sign of the
corner of francis and livingston and
took out that concrete brick monument
sign that's where they want to put the
building that's where they want to put
45 to 60 kids there is no purpose in
putting kids here and i understand
you're not here about use but you're
here about design would any of you would
any of you want your children to live
here would any of you want your children
to live in a building like this that has
a parking space area for children to
play
you wouldn't i'm on livingston this
makes no sense i also want to point out
that there was a use plan the 2018 i
think livingston avenue use plan that
did not call for this to be
residential it called for it to be
commercial nonetheless a story building
as with all due respect as ugly as this
has been presented
um
i also want to point out um i'm a real
estate attorney i do zoning i understand
this stuff is there a traffic study has
any traffic study been been been
submitted because i can tell you as
someone again that drives on livingston
i know i'm almost out of town time you
let barb have a couple extra minutes i'd
appreciate it as well
that there is not
do we need a traffic sight to understand
how people are going to turn left
where are all these people going to how
are they going to turn left on
livingston you can't barely turn left
now last point i'll make really quickly
is parking
um
there are 28 i believe parking space for
58 units where are these people going to
park they can't park on livingston
there's no parking they can't park on
france there's no parking there there is
no place for these people to park
i will tell you that the most analogous
development for this is the the
development on the corner of cassidy and
in maine and city council which i was on
at that time we said when we had 200
residents come before us that were
scared to death of that they didn't want
it because of parking well we said you
can you can have as many units as you
want except you have to have two units
per
apartment or condo and they did that
here
the developer is driving this because
the density that they need in his words
the density that they need to make this
project is this that shouldn't be your
concern and it shouldn't be uh thrown
upon us as residents of bexley i ask
that for the safety of children that you
do not allow this plan and you somehow
make it so the children are safe and
bexley thank you
yeah we'll start with you ma'am
you can be after her please
hi i'm jenny schmitz i live at 9 30
francis
do you saw me swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes i do thank you
my concern is well
like tim it's too big big of a project
for the space
as i see this this
project will be on the sidewalk
and it's my understanding that the
sidewalk is columbus it's not backslide
the sidewalk right now and the tree lawn
belongs to columbus
um i'm i've lived here for 48 years it's
intriguing right now that columbus is
repairing and putting in new curbs
and has done a sidewalk between
has fixed sidewalks that have been
nothing but gravel
from francis to euclair in the last week
but i don't understand how bexley can um
go along with this site plan when the
sidewalk that they're going to walk out
into is not in ba is not bexley
there's not enough parking there's there
have been not enough media everything
has been secret about this this meeting
was secret
you know it wasn't given out to anybody
most people don't know
i went to the one in
person meeting at the library which was
a discussion we sat at two tables and
they answered some questions they told
me then that this building would be
real brick
and he reiterated that several times i
when i read this when we called the
mayor's office and got a copy of this
it's fabric it's not
real brick and i don't know if that's
the truth or not but a lot of things
they said in that meeting
as we've researched were not the truth
so it's been very hard to have it all
secretive they did do a traffic study
during the pandemic
on on this little area well nobody was
going anywhere then because everything
was shut down so to have this during the
pandemic when nobody could meet in
person it just seems like
i don't know
the
at that meeting in person they cited
that there would be a management office
in this site but i don't see that
in any of the drawings on the first
floor
so those are my concerns that it is
right up on the sidewalk and that
sidewalk is not in bexley and there
definitely are not enough parking spots
but we were told there aren't
many parking spot because
these people
will not have cars
so that's my concern
thank you
sir
you've already been sworn in so okay
uh david green
i've uh
i live on francis avenue
um historically i've been
a bexley resident since
god
54.
i remember when the
that corner was vacant it was a
wooded lot
i remember when livingston avenue was
two lanes
so i've been around a long time and i
i'm familiar with access onto livingston
it's difficult
especially in the morning
if you have 27
people exiting
wanting to go
on to livingston
it's going to be a major backup
also in the mo in the aft and
at night when they come back
there's going to be a lot of turning
movements everyone's going to want to
turn left onto uh francis
so um the density is too high it's it's
probably what
over 40 50 units per acre
that's pretty high um
knock it back
i don't i'm not against high density i'm
against the rational use of high density
there was a big park in front of this
that might be good
if there was a lot of access into a
roadway
that would be reasonable but there's no
there's it's very short there's about 70
feet until you get to the livingston
avenue
so
these are the issues
that come up the design
is better
the design looks better than it did
originally
i like the dark brick it's a lot better
but uh like i said in the previous
design there should be some effort to
minimize heating and cooling and they
can do that now
reduce heat gain and um
build in something that looks more
functional and i think uh pure
pure uh
frills on the building are
looks kind of silly
so i put put something in that's more
functional and um
the biggest issue here is the
functional use of the building not that
not necessarily the design but the
functional use of the building
is limited
by the density of the building so i
think
that
restricts it
but if you cut it back a little bit you
could have a much nicer
overall design of the structure it
wouldn't look so slab sided and it
wouldn't look like a big box so i think
um go back to two stories that might
work
uh
or
two stories with a upper level of
reduced units
that might work where you have
um
sort of a
uh
attic type
unit that would be one one bedroom but
um
the whole thought of this is not
can we jam all these things into one
little three-quarter acre spot
it doesn't make sense if you want to do
that get the whole corner get the gas
station get that whole end of the
of the
of the street there and have two access
points
it makes more sense
then there'd be an argument but this
this is jamming everything into a small
space which doesn't work and it's never
worked and i've seen just developers try
to do this for a long time
it never works they try to go for the
maximum it never works until they go
back down to something rational and then
then it works so
uh cut out at least 15 units and we
might have something
thank you thank you
next
what's your name alex silverman you saw
me swear from the testimony you're about
to give this evening is the truth i do
thank you
hello
so i'm a resident at excuse me 683
vernon road i grew up in berwick on
wellesley road which is two blocks from
livingston
i have friends and family that live on
livingston
and
i will say that moving to bexley four
years ago
projects like this
were exciting
and one of the things i don't hear a lot
about today is the need for housing and
the value that brings to the people that
move into those buildings we can talk a
lot about aesthetics we can talk a lot
about design
but housing is critical we have a ton of
space right now in bexley that is vacant
retail commercial space that's not being
filled
everyone is building housing
a lot of columbus is building housing
that's not affordable especially the
suburbs this project is directly
targeting affordable low-income housing
which is something that we talk about a
lot in our community and i think it
aligns our values
i will also say that we talk a lot about
what's available to build on in these
parcels are available
housing brings health
and improves health outcomes to people
it improves employment opportunities
education opportunities
it is a life-changing
fact for many people when they get into
housing in communities like bexley so i
think there's value there from these
apartments now to speak about the
architect architectural
blueprint i will say that the brick
looks really nice and the flat design
is very nice i don't i don't like the
design that kind of has juxtapotion
coming out
i think having the tudor style from this
design
looks much more appealing i really liked
the design for the flower pots i've been
talking about safety and i think
we saw i know the jcc incorporated those
after some
scares with vehicles attacking buildings
especially the one that happened in the
hospital in um
on daily road they put in giant flower
pots as a protection feature
i know the livingston avenue plan is
underway
we have growth in columbus and bexley
the the national church residencies
moving in on brookwood this is something
that's coming to the city
like we talked about with north cassidy
the same thing's happening with
livingston we're gonna have
more investment more buildings so how do
we address it and bring apartments like
these in here
so from from that viewpoint i'd like to
see
more applications that make it appealing
the brick is really nice
and i did make my input to the designers
at the last meeting that maximizing
parking is important
even a few more spots if available would
go a long way at both locations
figuring out how that's done is the
challenge
but i do think that housing and these
apartments are a good benefit to our
city thank you
next
go ahead
please state your name robert singletary
you saw me swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth i do thank you
i want to thank the arb for letting me
speak um i just want to i'll i live in
993 euclid so i don't live on francis or
pleasant ridge
but i'm so appreciative of what tim and
jenny shared as
you know i live so close to livingston
and see accidents all the
between livingston avenue and where the
project is built
i mean the the sidewalk is not wide
enough the way it's designed currently
i would just be so
you know just so hurt if somebody got
killed on this i've seen accident after
accident
at the corner of euclaren livingston
over the years i've seen people get hurt
i've seen a high school student recently
get
hit by a car on livingston
i just very very scared about the
proximity of this project to a busy
street
and i'm you know i worry about my
friends on francis and pleasantridge
that
you know that somebody here that you
know is a child that moves into this
project could get hurt and so i'm very
very
cognizant of the fact that you know
design changes are happening on
livingston which is great
but the thing about it is is i just want
to make sure
that
the arb and b zap and i spoke at b zap
at 12 20 in the morning
and i know that they heard these
concerns before
that you know the
safety of the residents of this project
are taken care of thank you
[Applause]
anyone else
okay we will go to board comments then
so is there anyone that wants to go
first i won't put anybody on the spot
we'll start miss crosby
okay um
similar to
the other project
um and i know karen you didn't go over
your staff report but you did have very
many she had similar comments in terms
of the 3d
uh representation so
same thing um let's see some 3d
representation let's see how it sits in
context with all of the neighbors so
behind
to the uh east to the west to the south
you know we want to be able to like see
what's going on and
and the height of this the context of it
to the neighbors um
in terms of
the
where my notes are back here
um
it is sort of a shame that you have the
lot that you have and that you don't
have the adjacent lot i know i can't
really speak to that but
it is
a very large
building on a smaller lot and you have
you know i think you heard again the
parking is a concern
um
so
looking at that how you deal with that
uh
considering whether i know considering
whether or not
the amount of units that you have in
here is appropriate is something that i
think you need to consider and look at
um
you're going in a better direction in
terms of the darker brick
than the lighter brick
that's definitely
a more appropriate
look um
if you pull up
the
go back a sheet
i think
yeah um
so that bottom right elevation down
there and looks grayed out
i think there's like it's sort of
uh or faded out
it you know there's like sort of a weird
thing going on there with the
little triangle
so i think you need to take a look at
what is happening there um with respect
to the rest of that elevation and then
how it transitions to this next
elevation here to the left
uh it's just it just feels weird um
turrety
but not quite right
so take a look at that
um
[Music]
is it all brick on the back here
or is it first floor
just the first floor and then it
transitions to what
to uh
okay
um
i don't know i think you should study
that elevation a little bit more and
then again
i'm not sure how you're doing the
mechanicals i know obviously from
cat livingston not cassidy from
livingston you have the roofs there the
um
but whatever is happening up there you
know i don't think we want neighbors
to what is that the north
i'm not sure again how you're dealing
with mechanicals but
i don't think we want people to see
whatever's on the roof
and i think i'll just leave it at that
thank you mr ohio you want to go next
um similar comments to what i had before
to start you know 3d modeling i think is
important i'd also like to see
this project in
context of this livingston plan
and i'm not sure does the site plan that
you've shown us for this project
incorporate the new road system that
will be
built for the livingston plan with the
larger sidewalks and and the medians and
so forth
uh sketch was intended to
to talk to that uh
our understandings the curb line stays
in the same place that's
yeah i've got it here i just you know
the images that are shown for the
livingston plan look very different from
your site plan
in terms of
the pedestrian area the medians the uh
the green space and so on
our understanding is that this segment
that the median
in the road is the main
change i think but we'll make sure is it
two lane where
is it two configurations
okay so in this joint livingston avenue
plan we have a commercial area we have a
residential area
this is in the commercial area
and the commercial area cartway shows a
12 foot
urban sidewalk
and a six foot planter and then a two
foot two foot curb
um is that what you're showing in the
site plan
plan
that that livingston joint plan has a
total of 20 feet
right
the existing
maximum setback limits us to
17 feet
so we would you know it's either a
little bit smaller of a
tree zone a little bit smaller of a
curved zone or a little bit smaller path
or some combination of those to
fit the things in the joint livingston
plan without the area that we're allowed
um
so
there's no uniform
zero lot line
in this plan
yours is actually going to be closer to
the road than other properties
that are that would be in this
livingston plan adjacent
you're saying that you're at 17 but
other projects are supposed to be at 20
according to this plan you can't say
that we've analyzed other parcels all we
can say is that
joint livingston plan width is not
consistent with
the physical constraints of this
specific site i would like to see in
your 3d
you know renditions when you bring them
the interpretation of the livingston
plan into
the project with trees and so on and
i mean we work with a lot of non-profits
and
we do a lot of three-dimensional um
studies because they're important for
clients to understand
especially you know clients that don't
understand 3d drawings the models really
help um
well i'm sorry 2d drawings they don't
understand 2d drawing so it's very
helpful
um i'd also
like to
caution you about the tudor because
trinity lutheran has
a lot of integrity with you know
traditional materials um the proportions
of the details are based on the kind of
construction
um you know load bearing masonry walls
and you know temp real timber and so
forth
what i'm afraid of uh is that the timber
uh look this sort of tudor
look is going to actually
take away from the integrity of that
design
and one thing we encourage in bexley is
good use of material
as best
you can
incorporate materials
but not to
try to imitate necessarily other
traditional styles if you don't have the
same integrity of material so i don't
know if that is uh clear or not but
there are other examples down livingston
to the east
um where
you have tudor style
commercial buildings
they have you know long um second floor
balconies that connect you know they
look almost like motel six but they're
in tudor style or i'm sorry uh travel
what are they called
um no not travellage the uh ramada are
not ramada i can't remember what they're
called but anyway um red roof you know
it's like the old red roof where you
have this
continuous second floor hallway on the
outside
there's some of those they're all tudor
style
um
they have the
you know the stucco with the timber look
so livingston has a tradition of tudor
but
it doesn't have the integrity that this
building over here has nor is it bexley
so i really caution you about that using
that tutor because i think it can be
misinterpreted i don't think that it it
might be
it might be seen as inappropriate
and with the integrity of material my
sense is like north cassidy that we
should be concentrating on the integrity
of material
simple elegant designs you know even
though i know this has no mixed use this
is a residential but to reconsider that
communities like shaker heights in in
cleveland you know there's there's lots
of examples of this tutor along the main
corridors that's all residential or
sometimes mixed use but again it's from
you know the 1920s 30s and 40s and so it
has this load-bearing masonry
construction that is that lends itself
to
these kind of materials um
your brick and your finished materials
of cement board siding and so on metal
copings and metal flashings and things
like that i just worry that it's not
going to come across with the same
integrity as something you could do in a
simpler more elegant you know design um
so i would i would caution you about
that the other thing is the national
church residence as was brought up is
building down at
kenwick
and
livingston
and i'm just curious
maybe in this 3d model
that you could somehow show us a diagram
of
this uh you know low income or you know
sort of multi-family
uh housing or any kind of housing that's
happening is are there other sites along
livingston that are being proposed
for
low-income or multi-family i think a
diagram would be really helpful for this
board just to see
also to the point about the children
um i think it would be helpful for this
board to understand
the proximity of public space
for for the people who occupy this
building how do they get there
what is the protection for
these people and the 3d model can show
this you can show the protection of
people on the sidewalk proximity to the
next nearest park
and so on what they have to walk through
to get there will be evident in your 3d
model
but
i think that context as
was stated by the design consultant is
absolutely critical for us
um in understanding
the architectural character of this new
building
um so
if it's possible yes i think
showing us the context even of like a
diagram showing the other um
housing projects would be really helpful
just to kind of see the proximity and
what's really happening to livingston
but in terms of the character of bexley
i i really think that um
you have to be very careful about
bringing in
you know styles that you're imitating
i think that you know
if you really study
the architecture of of bexley not just
the monuments but
um you know the the sort of
cultural
institution buildings that we have here
the libraries the governor's mansion
there's a mix of commercial and
residential in that
but
again like north cassidy you're not
really doing either of those you know
you're doing something different this is
you know housing it's a housing project
so i think that it need the character of
this needs to come out as that and not
as
something that
imitates a housing project from the
1920s or the 1930s but is its own thing
but references bexley
um and that may sound like tudor but i
think we're i'm what i'm trying to say
is
that i don't think you you have to be
very careful about your details if
you're going to go in that direction
and otherwise integrity of materials
good proportion
and simplicity of design are really
essential i think to to be considered
having that integrity that's worthy of
bexley
so those are my comments
mr scott
um
the the reference
the referenced image from trinity
lutheran
that page is is a good example of where
i'm going to start
uh
now it's it's actually just
before the color elevations
right there if you scroll down just a
little bit more you'll catch the
maybe the elevation of that there it is
that's good um right so we're turning
the lutheran is a three-story but it's
really a two-story building with a third
story attic right so
again i'm just comparing the two
buildings because they're they're
put in as a precedent but i know they're
different
when we we look at a three-story
residential apartment within tudor
gables
it's it's handled very differently even
though the gables are three stories
they're interrupted by the roof line and
the roof line in that particular
building and again i agree with all of
the things that have been said about the
materials and the build and the
proportions based on how those buildings
are built and i get that i know you're
not going to be building a masonry
building
um
is that roof line that roofline is
actually brought down to that tuck the
ceiling of the second floor
um
and you know this project is it's
probably not possible uh because of of
the man's heart and it you know
as an architect uh i have a bucket list
of things i want to be able to design in
my career
uh manchester us have never been on that
list
so um i'm not a fan um at all uh but i
understand why you have them in here to
kind of try to tie a roof
system to maybe the context of what's on
livingston but i don't think you
one answered and
i don't need to say much more about that
but i i think you know if you went to a
full gable that that would be this
massive structure and i think it's it's
an increasing height to a building that
um and actually length it's really
you're breaking the the main
south elevation with three main gables
and maybe that fourth one
on the west side
um
but i don't you know the roof doesn't
have to extend all the way across the
building just because the plan does i
think you can break that up and help
change the scale the one thing i i like
about what you've done on the scale of
the project is as you turn the corner on
francis
you've brought down those two-story
townhome units and the front porches on
that and it changes the scale of the
building
you know answered or not man should i'll
be done with the answer the tutor style
uh i agree with mr heyer's you know
comments about quality and and what that
ends up really looking like but that
aside the massing approach to that is a
great idea is how you you have this kind
of porch in bexley southbyxie especially
is front porches it's all about the
porch
and that starts to really tie the scale
of the building because it is a fairly
large building
into the rest of the context of the
neighborhood i think i would be
interested in you exploring ideas of
also that manchester roof at that
location how to be able to control the
scale of the building
with by eliminating or changing the roof
in that location
um
i also appreciate the fact that you have
a livingston elevation but then you also
have the
the more neighborhood uh
the elevation changes when you start
approaching the parking lot which is of
course the north side
i'm not sure that's
working greatly i think the bringing the
brick down to that the first floor only
and then doing some
siding there um
is probably
that type of a balance is good
i don't know if
the detail in the sighting and
and
as we see this progress it's going to be
really important how that is done so
that you can
tie into those details of the
neighborhood and it's going to be really
important how you articulate that design
to balance the scale of that
as you start to move north into the
neighborhood
i think another comment i have is again
there is a big concern about the density
along livingston and i think the
livingston conversation about safety is
something that
um you know we've all experienced in
this in this neighborhood for a long
time
and the one thing that i saw on the
sketch that pod designed the landscape
company had done
which i think goes a long way especially
i have
fairly grown but three boys you know
coming out of a door and as you're
leaving a building having a physical
barrier that you can't run out into the
street where there's like a planter or
some sort of effect so i would be very
interested in you exploring as you
continue to develop this is those types
of transitions one from things coming
from the street in as well as as you're
exiting and into the neighborhood
those transitions of where you provide
those safety barriers and safety control
um
so that you know residents aren't
dealing with things larger than you know
the things that they in the neighborhood
that they're they're they're living
[Music]
i'm also interested in seeing this one
actually both projects in a kind of
three-dimensional either photograph
montage or
uh three-dimensional views to kind of
really see this context i think that'll
go a long way in your own development of
the design but also in be able to
communicate and in the end selling your
designs to not only us but the community
i think those are much more powerful
than in elevations so hopefully you're
able to do that
um
you know density and and parking and and
all of that there's those are all
fantastic
uh discussion points and i think
extremely important
really not the jurisdiction of this
board
um
it does feel like you've maximized the
density
of this and are putting uh
you know we can talk about the the the
expectation that you know how many
residents will actually have a car or
not
uh those are all good conversations but
in the end you can't control any of that
so you will potentially putting an
additional load into the neighborhood
and the side streets but um you know
being driven driving down these streets
a lot and on livingston obviously no
one's parking on livingston
you know i don't think the neighborhood
can't handle it i'm not so worried about
the traffic uh turning on the turning
left on livingston is an impossibility
it's just if you're
playing with the game you should be
playing
uh but you know crossing it over might
be worse but you know those things i
think that's part of this overall master
plan that there's the city's looking at
is traffic calming and and that's going
to really help right there's if they end
up doing this center median i go into a
two-lane road traffic is going to slow
down just because there's going to be a
lot of traffic it's going to really it's
going to bottleneck that road
and people may start taking other means
so
that's part of the city plan but i think
that the notion there is that
is to try to do improvements to the
neighborhood but also the the traffic
calming and trying to eliminate some of
these bigger issues we're having as a
city on living tsunami
so i would really focus on
your you know obviously a brick is a
solid material i think it's appropriate
in this building i do would lean towards
the darker
as a project i don't like the lighter
brick you can look at the precedence you
have you have white windows in a dark
brick
i don't think that's a problem i think
it's just about how you detail that
those windows openings and the
uh the rest of the building around that
and i would really focus on continuing
to develop the
uh
transition of the building as you are on
livingston in that facade as you turn
and go north into the neighborhood i
think you've got a very strong start on
that you can continue to develop that
you're well on your way
and then
explore options with the roof it doesn't
have to be one main big roof
you can play with that that scale to you
know help
articulate a concept as well as
work better within the neighborhood
thank you
so i i agree with everything i've heard
from the other board members i will say
i don't think that the tutor is an
improvement
over what you had drawn before
again i think that the details of how
you would do that is just not going to
be
executed well so
i think that going to something more
simplified is
probably a lot easier to do well
um and i agree with what he has said
to break up that roofline
my mind goes to like georgian
architecture where you have
a building and a connector link in a
building
maybe something like that helps you
break up the mass of the roof and then
the overall mass of the building
so um
i feel like it the project is just
lacking
um the big idea you know the concept
um
it feels like you're drawing a floor
plan and then slapping materials on it
and
that's not how i think successful
buildings get built so there's so many
beautiful buildings around the area that
are just so simple
um
simple brick buildings
but you know and you could do something
like that that has some connectors to it
and i think it could end up being very
successful so
i again would encourage you to look more
around at some of the simple buildings
that are in bexley and around uh bexley
um there's one across the street from
kroger that is just a very simple
beautiful brick building
so simple
um
so i don't think it's the
the crazy details that make the building
i think it's um the quality of the
execution of it so
um so that's all that's all i guess i
have to add to it but um i'm i'm
guessing that you want this
also to come back
next month okay
will you have enough time to draw redraw
both of these projects
in three weeks so that we're looking at
something substantially different we
will assess that okay
yeah because this is such a big project
and so many of the residents want to be
involved with it we want to make sure
that we get word out to everybody in
plenty of time so if you are not coming
back next month we just would want to
know that so that we can put the word
out on that and just um
those that are to the left of the
atmosphere
the fact that they have a special
meeting
is not particularly this project these
two projects
oh sorry
um i just want to clarify that that was
not a request from the applicant that
was simply a
kathy and karen decision because we had
16 other projects on our agenda
last week
and we would have been here again until
three in the morning and we just can't
can't do that to residents or applicants
so um you know just to to call that
whole the idea that we were giving them
um honoring a request that's not it at
all this was a staff request to have a
special meeting we'll have to assess
that based on how many applications we
get again
um in august
we don't know that answer yet i also
would request that if the city is doing
anything
in regards to the safety on livingston
that we just get that information ahead
of time you could even just get it and
you know give a small report on it um
i personally think that the traffic on
livingston has gotten much worse in the
last couple years um
i think the traffic everywhere in
columbus has gotten much worse in the
last couple years it's just from my
perspective it is the lack of
enforcement
um so i understand that the you know the
the boulevards and all that will slow
things down but i would also love to
know what else the city
would do as part of this project you
know are they thinking about adding a a
stop light are they adding crosswalks
with you know flashers what is i'm sure
the city doesn't want to have problems
with you know people getting hurt in the
street so
what what is sexy doing to help that and
i also want to make sure that uh you
know last time we had jason suti
comment on on the zoning aspects fitting
into this district and that was prior to
the livingston avenue plan becoming a
part of
you know the the right of way there so i
would
like to have him back even to speak to
that and how it relates to the
livingston avenue plan yeah and i i hear
um your comments about the plan but if i
just look at main street and how long it
took the city
of columbus to redo main street
it worries me that this project gets
built and then the boulevards don't go
in for 10 years and
you know that in the meantime that there
there could be some real problems so
okay um i just will address that yeah i
just like to know what the city of
bexley
is doing to try to help that in the
meantime but to your point that is
everything's moving
in parallel at different rates
um but in terms of design review which
is what this board does that's why
looking at
um even though this board is not the
purview is not the landscape
showing that in context will be
important to understand think whoever
just said it can't remember how you make
a barrier so kids just don't run out
that's part of in my view part of the
design and and the architecture some
landscape elements are also part of the
architecture so yeah and i appreciate
that the audience brings those concerns
to us because you know if you don't live
close to livingston then
you may not see you know all the
concerns for it so i appreciate that you
bring those to us and that we can try to
address those as part of the
architecture so
yeah it's all a good process so
can i ask um
a question of the applicant and
and we we had some ideas and some of
them were sort of abstract and some of
them were more detail-oriented are you
clear on you know what kind of direction
we're looking for
there are several directions we're clear
so to to that point and and i've talked
to um city attorney as well just about i
just want to make sure that we don't
have any illegal meetings where we have
more than a quorum but um and i've
talked to the applicant this is going to
be a iterative process so we don't
it's worth no one's time to not see
anything until we get to august so as
staff i'll be working directly with them
and i may occasionally send an image to
one person or something like that to get
a comment
um
but we're not going to just
okay see in august
we're going to work
and about and critique and help along
with the design
not do the design that's the applicants
but to give some
reaction along the way
just
clear my response if there are some i'd
say i've heard a lot of preferences to
give certain
beautiful script buildings
exactly that's i can't think what we're
looking to
make sure there's transparency and you
know understanding
that that's the kind of thing i'm
talking about like if somebody sends me
an image i will it will come through me
as staff and i'll make sure it gets to
the applicant i have five pages of notes
that i will
type up and send to the applicant as
well
i would just reiterate that
bexley's architecture review board
is tasked with
not only preserving the beauty of bexley
you know to
because of the integrity that this
community has but we also have to
look
forward and make sure that what we're
building
that's going to become part of that same
fabric has the same integrity it's you
know that we continue that integrity it
doesn't mean it's the same style it
means that it's the same integrity of
building
uh whether it's low-income housing
whether it's you know a new library
whether it's
a new city hall or whatever it is that
integrity of material is absolutely
critical to the way we look at moving
forward in bexley
in reference again to the older
buildings and understanding the
integrity that they have so i just
wanted to reiterate that
yeah and i have to say too of the images
that we received in our report that had
a lot of
your past projects on it um someone else
referenced the project in cleveland that
is just the brick box
um of all the images that of projects
that you've done that's the one that my
eye automatically goes to so um i don't
know let's make sure
i think it's the one that's on the
left-hand side
yeah
so um
i i it is interesting that as we all
look at those that i think there was
someone else here that said that that
was the image that caught their eye of
what you've done in the past that's the
most appealing to them and i i felt the
same so
it was also the only one that i
like but to be clear we're not talking
about style we're talking about
integrity of design in context of a
neighborhood in context of
you know um
you know the proportion of other
buildings and what you can do with the
material because i think we're asking
for a little bit more here
because actually does have i think a
higher level of integrity um sort of
like a shaker heights or a cuyahoga
falls or something like that where we
want to make sure that that
again that integrity of material and
detail
is able to be done even with a limited
budget whatever whatever can be done to
address that
um we need to actually have a motion
yeah okay so we need a motion of someone
to
um
push this to next month to august august
11.
[Music]
if this is going to go on the regular
meeting on on the 11th and but if you
have too much
to have to discuss it'll go to a special
meeting
well yeah so that's what happened last
week so
you know typically the arb
in a meeting we can review about five or
six seven projects you know before we're
well we got that letter because there's
one behind us and one
on the other side of us so we saw all
that was going on right and and we could
see what was being discussed but when
this was announced in bexley blast or
whatever it just said a special meeting
it never said what it was about
i'm sorry at all
i think it does on the website and on
monday they put it on
to say what it was but until monday it
was never
out there everything has been secretive
i'm sorry about it and that really has
really bothered people because they all
think this you know was done during the
pandemic we couldn't go to a meeting
it's you know
nobody knew that the senior center was
going to be on cassidy how did that all
of a sudden just happen and nobody in
bexley knew that
it's all been very secretive and i don't
understand that so if it does go to a
special meeting if there are a lot of
things on the agenda
will it say special meeting and this is
what it's going to do yes i'll make sure
of that okay because i'm the one that
uploads the agenda i i don't put i don't
post the meetings but when i went to
upload the agenda i realized that it had
not been listed yet
even though it was for sure on the
schedule right right um so but a lot of
people in our neighborhood understand
and say oh there's another thing you're
not telling us about there was a
separate i i sent out a group notice for
all of the cases that are on the typical
agenda but we
had a separate notice that went out just
for this meeting to the residents at but
not to us that was just
for people in standing with steve
everyone within 300 feet of this right
right but everybody else is saying why
is bexley not getting notice of these
you know and you said that it's in the
paper that unless you get the dispatch
you don't get the bexley news on it no
it's not in the paper it's it's on the
website but but
as karen said we had an issue with we
have our standard meetings in there
every month second thursday right
yeah i see those you know but this one
i have to send it out to everyone within
300 feet of the property and that that
was done yeah i understand that yeah but
if you're not within that you have no
idea i mean i've mentioned this to
friends in bexley they have no idea
these projects are even happening well
and like what and it's kind of
frustrating also when you have half the
people that were here for this case plus
the cassidy case and and they've tabled
it to august 11th but half the people
have already left that were here for
this case so right now we're announcing
that this is tabled until august 11th so
if that doesn't happen well most of
those people were with the seniors they
were there to represent right but but i
have no idea so they say they're they
don't know well we've announced it in
this meeting and it's going to be part
of the record but anything beyond that i
would have to send another notice out if
we decide we're going to have a special
meeting
yeah i would just say that
no one did it as a secret or
intentionally we were just trying to
manage
what was a nightmare of testimony last
time till three in the morning and
so i will make sure that it's on the
agenda if it even is necessary it may
not be necessary there's also the other
um possibility that the applicant may
need more than three weeks in that case
we would be moving it to september so um
we'll we'll keep it on there okay thank
you so much thank you so yeah so it will
get moved to next month but if something
happens that we either can't hear it on
august 11th because we again have 15
other applications
then we will announce it during that
meeting when it gets moved to
um but i would say just call the city um
we knew by monday of that week
that we had way too much to do in one
meeting so we knew by monday that we
were gonna have to push it to a week
later thanks thanks okay i asked the
procedure questions yeah i think they
had so madison um does this board have
purview over the demolition
the demolition gets granted once the uh
architecture gets granted they are
basically tied together
so yeah no demo can happen until a
design is approved and typically it's
also once a construction document or
building permit has been approved
so that when you demo then they turn
right around and start constructing and
the reason i ask is there's a beautiful
120 year old brick house that's on this
property right now that someone's living
in and there's another building i don't
see a reason why it would be demolished
we talk a lot about intel architectural
integrity um i just want to clarify and
just
so you're so you understand the city
only has to notify people within 300
feet
so that's why but that is why there's a
lot of frustration because i get it but
my neighbor two doors down doesn't um
and that's just for your understanding
that that's where frustration comes i
think the mayor told me he was trying to
notify people within a thousand feet on
this project he did he did do a notice
that was prior to my standard notice
just letting people know above and
beyond our standard notification if
there's anything we can do to you know a
place that we can put a notice or
anything that would help you we are more
than happy to do that so
um
do you like to be sworn in oh yeah
oh please state your name nicole knight
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes ma'am um just want to add to
that so we as the applicant send an
email we've been collecting email
addresses of interested parties in the
city
nicole n-i-c-o-l-e dot boyer b-o-y-e-r
at t is in tom c as in charlie b is in
ball i n is in nicole
c is in charlie.org so nicole.boyer
tcbinc.org
if you send an email to me i will put
you on that list we sent an email to all
of the addresses that we have
notifying them of this special meeting
as well
so
so let's connect because i did send to
those people so we can talk about this
i'll make sure that i had everything
correct and my theory will be that i
misread a letter
so but sometimes when you send out mass
emails too they end up in your junk mail
so you need to be
yeah you need to or spam
yeah so just
we are more than happy to help share the
information with the people that we do
have the information for as well thank
you thank you
okay so i need a motion for tabling so
moved seconded
scott yes mr heyer yes
yes
okay so as it stands we will see you
back on august 11th if that changes we
will try to get the word out in every
way we can but if you are unclear please
call the city
um by the monday which would be
somewhere around august
7th or so
and if it is going to be tabled or
pushed to an a special meeting we'll let
you know that that okay
and thank you all for coming i
appreciate the input so
and we learn from our errors too so i'll
make sure that that special meeting
placeholder is on there
immediate you know immediately we decide
even if i'm not ready to upload stuff
yet
um
thank you
i wanted to talk about one thing
okay so i think we are adjourned
i just want to give one update
from last meeting
um great job on the slate roof
they want to work with me to try to
preserve it so i have a sleep guy to
give you too i need it