we will call to order the january 13th
2022 architectural review board meeting
uh kathy can we call the roll
mr scott
here mr hellman here mr hall
here strausser here here
uh this is the time for public comment
uh
this this time for public comment is an
opportunity for any person to provide
comments to the board on an item that is
not on the board's agenda
any comment relating to an item on the
agenda may be made by those with
standing when the matter is before the
board for consideration is there anyone
that would like to speak on a matter
that is not before the board
tonight okay
okay so we will go ahead and uh next
thing let's approve the minutes uh we
have november and december meeting
minutes to approve
motion to approve
second
are we doing for both sets of minutes or
just the november
can we do them both together
okay okay just so it's clear november
and december all right
all in favor
all right
all right all opposed
thank you
okay uh so karen you have staff report
on here what's that uh
you want to go through something on the
staff report are we going straight to
old business no it's always on there
it's just for public access and for
everybody oh gotcha
i think we do want to note though that
one of the cases has been requested a
table
so 221 ashborne has requested that it be
tabled to the february 10th 2022 meeting
hopefully if there's anyone here to
speak on that
you have your evening open now
okay so let's get into old business
let's go to the first application uh
number arb 21-51 the address is 2010
east broad the applicant is brent foley
the owner is the catholic diocese of
columbus and the applicant is requesting
architectural review and approval of a
cert
of a certificate of appropriateness for
alternate design for the convocation
center that was approved at the november
arb meeting with the condition that the
applicants submit phasing plans for
additional exterior details
karen you want to this application was
approved at the
november meeting correct yes
with the condition that
um the the applicant come back to us
with some
phasing plans for future edition
hopefully sooner than future if
fundraising was successful enough for
the cupola we had some kind of detail
on the
vast roof of this convocation center as
well as prepping some of the brick area
for later detail being added
so
everything that i expected is in this
packet
um i even debated whether to just do
this as a consent agenda item i did have
a little bit of feedback from um another
board member that
isn't in here tonight but about
um potentially looking at
some variation in color on the roof and
i have talked to brent about that
um
and i also just thought because of the
size and the importance of this project
it was probably a good idea just to have
it here but everything to me looks fine
we did um talk about potentially
doing um the roof tiles so that it
alternated in color like dark light dart
like to kind of break it up
um and then we just talked about it kind
of prior to this
and you can go into your discussion as
well but i i wasn't really
sure about that idea anyway because it
seemed a little bit i don't know over
overly byzantine or something i don't
know the right way to put it but i was
kind of agnostic on that but i threw it
out as a discussion point so you can
talk about um your discussion or your
decision i don't think it was really one
that you wanted to go down that road but
everything that is shown here and i can
go to any drawings you'd like to see
um did complete everything that we had
asked for
give me that
please state your name brent foley you
saw me swear or affirm the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes i do thank you thank you
um thank you karen for that that report
so the as karen mentioned we received
approval uh in november with the
condition that we would come back
uh and address a couple things because
we kind of had an original design and
then we had the minimum design and we
were talking about some things that
might be did as alternates or be done in
the future
uh the main things were the cupola
which you are seeing we have added back
as an alternate that is
going to be included in the construction
document so we're getting pricing for it
uh the hope is if we are able during the
bidding process to get good bids that we
would be able to do that and it's i
would say it's top of the line of the
list of alternates that we will accept
if we were able to do pricing so it's a
simple brick cupola that's added to the
top uh to give the the building a crown
i think is what commissioner hired
called it
as we were here before the other thing
you'll see on there are the skylights uh
that are right there on the kind of
right
they're not very visible but they are a
little bit
visible those are also an alternate
that has a lobby space and we're trying
to get some lobby some light down into
that hobby space
and those will be bid as kind of second
alternate
and then the last piece of discussion
one of the the um
conditions was to look at a way to build
in panels in future sections on the west
elevation so we've tried to do is
illustrate that on that exterior
elevation the west elevation there what
we've done the length of those walls
they will need to have two control
joints in them to control the the
cracking in the brick and so what we've
illustrated is how in the future you
could put a
a section uh that is more decorative um
in in an area between the control joints
without having to redo the whole wall is
the idea we think that that section
there as the farthest west was the one
that was the most concerned and so
that's what that kind of went is a
stripped-down version what was in the
original design
uh we do intend to come back for
landscaping which is another condition
as well uh we'll be back for that here
as we develop that
uh in regard to the the
the variation or the striping of the
roof i talked it through with there is
an architect partner on this as well as
the building owner and they prefer not
to do that
there is not any the the red spanish
tile exists on the school of several
places and there is not a
instance of that variation that exists
uh so they prefer not to do that they
encouraged anybody who'd be interested
to see what it might look like to to go
to saint paul's church up in westerville
where they have the same very similar
tile that we're expecting here it's a
very similar expanse
so we prefer not to do that
and i'll answer any other questions
okay uh let's start with
mr hall
um yeah i don't have really any
questions so okay
uh a couple questions the the
the alternate on the side panel
uh is that an example for just one how
it would then continue around or is it
the thought being it would just be
installed in that place or what's what's
the thinking on that as an alternative
or is that a range of alternatives is a
range the idea is that that that was the
determined to be kind of the most
concerning wall that specific wall so we
showed it in that wall um but we could
do similar things in other locations in
the future as well now that is not being
bid right now it is shown truly as a
future phase but the idea is to show how
we could
use the control joints as a place to
delineate where we could do something
like that
and i would imagine if we were going to
do that we would have to come back as a
specifically to how many are we going to
do where are we going to do and get the
specific comments on those right and and
how would that
even then how would that work would that
be an applique over top of no no what we
would do
so um control joints are put into the
walls about every 30 feet
that's basically a straight line with
with joint sealant so what we would do
is tear the brick off between those two
control joints and build a whole new
a whole new piece in that place would be
the idea okay that was the solution we
came up with yeah the the only thing i
would be a little concerned with i don't
know whether the
uh
it's one thing to have the details and
that's fine uh the baseline the the
datum line might be a little weird just
being one panel
you might be able to do the detail you
show in
almost to the size you have or expand it
but having kind of this
line stop and start there that might be
a little strange but
um
and then this would have a relief of
what a couple of inches or so yes
correct nothing too rude nothing too
too extreme but a little bit of a relief
okay and then i've probably forgotten
what's the roof color it is do you have
a do you have a color sample or a
rendering that shows the actual it
matches the existing is the red tile
roof that is on the school
we provided those pictures in the
original application okay
miss strasser
i don't have any questions
mr scott
i think that answered a lot of my
questions i i think for the again i have
no problem with the the crown i i wish
there's a little bit more detail but i i
get that
um i think that's a
a benefit from the original design so i
hope that can get put into the project
and then the future build out you know i
think i would agree a little bit with mr
hellman's comments about i understand
the panel and the spacing of that but i
think maybe looking at
an option and again it's really
speculative because we don't know if
that's ever going to happen but looking
at maybe more of that wall and stepping
that down so it's not just like a
one one panel and a larger wall
uh but that's you know we would talk
about that someday in the future sorry i
have no other comment so thank you yeah
i think the purpose of this was just to
make sure that the structure was there
correct to support whatever will come in
the future hoping that
you know these could be great naming
opportunities whatever
we would come back for the design
yeah i'd like to add one more point
as we've talked previously when you know
because again it was we had the detail
and then they kind of fitted away um and
we're left with these blank walls so
that will have an impact i think on the
tree commission side wearing a different
hat i think there'll be a slight
expectation of how do we handle that
blank wall and what's one of the more
visible spots that you have on your
campus
and how does that landscaping work
within this as a phase versus other
phases as you then develop that
courtyard space correct okay just so
that's clear yes absolutely and the
courtyard is a
is a later phase it's not part of the
space
i have no further questions thank you
okay i have no questions
would we like to go ahead and have
someone make a motion on this
turning stand
oh i'm sorry is there anyone in the
audience that would like to speak
about this application
and so
in my findings am i adding that this is
still subject to phasing plan submittals
or this is it
i don't think so
it would be a new application in my mind
if we came back okay so all right we
just asked for them to provide
the structure to make it capable to
do future okay so the findings of fact
and decision of the board for
application number arb dash 21-51
for property located at 2010 east broad
street
the board finds that the alternate
design for the convocation center which
includes the cupola skylights decorative
wall sections
are architecturally appropriate and
should be approved as submitted
we're basically proving it that it can
be built without those
as alternates so that's all
is there a motion some
uh miss strausser yes mr hall yes mr
hellman yes mr scott yes adam turner yes
thank you so much thank you we'll be
back for future phases thank you thank
you very much
let's hope you get that extra money for
the cooper
karen do we have to state the uh the
group of the consent items
should we i'm going to are we just going
to yeah usually we do that first and i
jump right into old business so i'm
going to do that now as part of this
okay
take care good night thank you
okay so the next item is to go through
um some new applications that we have on
a consent agenda so these are all
applications that have been before the
board we have all reviewed them and made
our recommendations and the applicants
have agreed to the recommendations that
we have asked them to do
so i'm just going to read through the
list of uh consent agenda items
the first one is application number arb
21-77 the address is 2170 bryden road
the applicant is pete foster the owner
is robert and mary montserrat
the next application is arb 21-79 the
address is 140 north cassingham the
applicant is amy lauerhouse and the
owner is nick and chelsea long
the third is application number arb
21-80 the address is 870 montrose the
applicant is amy lauerhouse and the
owner is tim and debbie leisure
and the last one is application number
arb 21-81 the address is 2501 fair
avenue the applicant is amy lauerhouse
and the owner is claire and charlie
adams
is there anyone in the audience that
would like to speak about any of these
applications
if so please come forward
no 24.88 no that's not being
approved
not with this group under concern yeah
it'll be later tonight we'll we'll
actually discuss that application
okay is there any findings of fact or
anything for this or we've just approved
that we can just vote we can just wait
so we just i need to move for approval
of consent uh agenda
second
and kathy call the role please uh mr
paul
yes mr hellman yes mr scott yes strasser
yes madam tony yes
okay so that takes us to
[Music]
2176 yes or 754. okay so the next
application is number arb
21-76 the address is 754 euclaire
the applicant is bonnie kyle and the
owner is joseph kyle
the applicant is requesting
architectural review and approval of a
certificate of appropriateness for a
two-story addition to the south side of
the primary structure
karen
um kathy do you have my staff report
printed out so i don't have to go back
and forth i do
this application is before the board for
the first time thank you i'll give it
right back to you
um
i have um
i had kind of a list of um things that i
wanted to
discuss with the board and i also had
the opportunity to talk to bonnie kyle
um who who is the both owner and
applicant
um
about some of these changes so i'm just
gonna go i know you all have seen them
in the staff notes but i kind of went
through them
with bonnie and she made some changes on
the drawings and also addressed
some of the reasons that she might have
kept some of the issues that i pointed
out um
but
the in this drawing that i have up on
the screen is an updated drawing
compared to what you have first seen or
you may have seen this if i think i
uploaded it yesterday yesterday so if
you've looked since then it will look a
little bit different to you um
the the issues that i had talked to
bonnie about i'll just whiz through them
because i know you've seen them and
we'll give them a chance to address
these as well
some of the front porch
um drawings look different than what i
saw in the picture so i just wanted to
clarify that they are doing a front
porch
um
repair
along with it there's nothing really
different except they're taking down the
railing
um the
roof in the picture that you've seen in
the photographs looks a little different
but it actually is different because it
was taken at a low angle and this is
this is actually the reality of how
how it is currently built so that any
changes that you see are just upgrades
and repairs
um secondly i didn't i did point out and
this is usually just a condition it's
not anything that has to be um finalized
at the board but there needed to be
railings for some of the
um for the stairs down from the deck and
i do think that was put onto the
drawings if i remember correctly but the
detail of that will come in for when it
comes in for permitting
the back door is also being replaced as
it's shown in the drawing so it's just a
clarification yeah as well as the um the
windows changed as well on the on the
back as well
um there was a question from one of the
board members on an email about the
roofing um will it match the existing
and i believe and they bonnie can
clarify this when she comes up that all
the roofing is going to be replaced so
it will match in total
and um
the trim detail i just wanted to be
certain and have her clarify that
all the window trim will match what's
existing which is actually really
beautiful kind of a farmhouse trim and
it was not drawn that way on the edition
but the intent is actually to have the
trim match
what is up on the existing
um structure currently
as well as the eaves which
unfortunately are not the greatest you
know what do we
what would you call them pork chops
they're pork chops
um but that is matching that so
um that's the attempt that it's maximum
i think that's all of the things that we
went over but um if you'd like to come
up then kathy can swear you in and
present
please raise your right hand are you
both speaking okay uh state your name
starting with you sir
bonnie kyle
please raise your right hand do you
solemnly swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes yes thank you
do you want to give us your a little
presentation on what you're doing and
yeah yeah and i'm sorry i think you said
the older drawings but it's minor
there's just some hand rules that were
thrown in um for the revised drawings
um
the so we have you know our house turns
100 this year so to celebrate it we
wanted to do a much needed um addition
for more space and so keeping the
existing farmhouse style we want to very
much just continue that look everything
is very seamless and cohesive
and just upgrade a lot of
needs for like the porch for instance we
need a new roof anyway so just doing
that for the whole house while we're
under construction
um and really wanting to
be mindful of the
profile of the house and trying to step
it down to have some differentiation
between roof lines but also
still keep the classic look of the
original structure
so um and then the other thing we have
done is we have existing aluminum siding
uh horizontally and we are looking to
add to that but still keep metal siding
but do a vertical um almost like a
boarding batten look but keeping it a
little bit farmhouse
look and feel um a little but um maybe a
little bit modern on that look
okay um
board members uh i'll start with mr
scott you have questions
all right
hello
um
no i think i think staff is is
covered a lot of the the um kind of
comments and
details i think that we would be looking
for something you guys are going to be
able to work through all that pretty
easily i think the overall massing is is
appropriate i think it's it i know the
lock well
so i think this double lot um this this
will have a nice streetscape i like i
appreciate the addition to step back off
the main main facade i think the massing
being broken down between the two story
and the one story edition works really
well i think it's uh i think that's nice
i i think i'm curious about the siding
of course um
you know metals metal siding um can be
pretty amazing and and obviously
can be challenging so i'm confident
you're going to pick the coolest thing
to find but uh
so i think working with staff and making
sure that they're comfortable with that
um
so i don't have any other i think
overall i think it's right in line with
uh
with the proportion of the existing
house and the lot of course so i think
it's gonna be a nice addition so
uh as long as you're comfortable moving
forward with those details i know yeah i
mean i
you know for me it's it's a little bit
subjective
and
when i talk to an applicant and i
understand that they can understand what
i'm asking for and
um they're both the clouds are both
architects and i feel very comfortable
that that we had a conversation that she
you could easily understand what what
kind of critique and and suggestions i
was giving so i'm perfectly comfortable
with this being approved with the
condition that the apps can't work with
me
on final details so that's that's all i
have
mraster i i would like to know a little
bit more to the extent you have made
decisions about the
the horse the vertical siding what what
is what's the intent there
sure so um i i have a i should have
uploaded a cut sheet for that but it is
a steel um it's bridger steel is the
manufacturer what we're looking at but
it's a steel um
almost it's called board and batten is
the style but it comes in ten feet
increments um so we'll have a little bit
of a seam but it's um i think i may well
adapt in
um it overlaps so it isn't going to
it'll be seamless
once it's painted
but
it um the profile i think is a half inch
and
maybe 16 inches in between
between that or 12 inches so i think
what i may have shown was i think 12
inches i wanted to keep similar to the
siding that we have that's horizontal um
but not exact i want a little bit of
differentiation uh to showcase it but
they're both gonna be painted the same
color so it
blends in but it does give a little bit
of appeal that it's a little bit it's
different than you know the existing
structure
and what about the front porch in
particular the handrails
besides the steps going to the street
what about the side around the porch
what's the intent on that so um i i
talked to karen and and i think that's
something that we're going to continue
to look at what we have now is
the typical low
wood rail that is
very much um
rotten and it needs to be replaced
it's the solid solid panel yeah solid
panel um so we want to
i i'm more interested in we need to
strengthen like you can see the porch is
kind of uh the roof of the porch is a
little bit um sloping
so that needs to be reinforced
and
i would like to just keep it open
to be a little bit more farmhouse and
not have the solid panel at the bottom
sure but obviously i know that you know
i think we're right under 30 inches for
the height difference so we need to look
at
exact um measurements and then we want
to put in handrails as per code of
course but make them um simple and
to go with the look and what about the
posts on the front porch yeah so canon
i'm sorry i told you i thought that they
tapered it's i think it's water damage
on the bottom so
yeah
[Music]
so i think we're looking to
box those out and maybe make them a
little bit
larger in scale but not a lot larger
there's and i was telling parent there's
a lot of you know you walk around the
neighborhood there's lots of
porches that you see renovations and
sure we've seen things we like and
things we don't maybe recommend for us
so i think keeping it simple and um
square shape but maybe just a little bit
wider than what it is to help reinforce
it anyway
i think the idea of it being open helps
provide a little bit more community
engagement you know when it's open you
have people walking by on such a regular
basis give that opportunity to kind of
interact a little bit more and you're
not hidden behind many
areas so we're going to try to do that
and i would agree with that yeah i had a
house on cassie and
ripped out a big solid
wall so i agree it was all wrong too uh
though my columns aren't naturally
tapered um
i think the column if you're rewrapping
the columns i think
i would definitely follow a simple
that's car mouse style they may be very
very simple top and bottom kind of trim
and because i think that's going to work
well with your window details because
you really do have nice window details
in the house
um so yeah that's
and then just to make the board feel
more comfortable i mean that's even
something that if they weren't already
doing an addition that would just go
through me as a repair and replacement
item
and i'm
i would always support opening up a
porch first of course
i just had to tear down yous that were
there for 30 years that's i didn't have
to tear down any wood to get an open
porch that's not with my head
thank you
oh yeah
mr helmet
uh yeah a couple things again i think
the general idea uh is uh is fun and
exciting and it has to be uh great for
you all to be able to do this to your
house so uh but as usual you know some
things maybe to think through a little
bit uh first i know we'll get a
dimensional set of drawings because we
don't know the heights
of anything here
and so i don't know how far off the main
roof the secondary roof for the uh
edition is
so there's no dimensions listed there um
secondly is the presumption that the
roof will be all will you have one new
roof for all of this
yes okay good
uh and then the um
little ambivalent on this one whether
the
the porch columns obviously are a little
maybe need a little thought but um
whether there should be a trim board
across the bottom of the um
of the v for the porch
uh just to give that a definition i'm
not sure that's a it's just something to
look at in terms of the completeness of
the house
and is the vertical siding
uh underneath the front porch is that
existing or is that to be added it's
existing that's existing only in that
one area okay
okay
uh and then uh i i think it's been
mentioned the the the window placement
i have a little concern with because i
think they'll come back to haunt you
because the imbalance of those
i think will have a you'll have a
difficult time getting comfortable with
some of that i understand it from an
interior spacing and what's happening uh
but they'll they'll never not look
slightly weird
so something to consider there
um
the
also not sure what the existing because
of the landscaping shown on that what
the existing foundation is to the house
and then what the addition foundation
will be uh between before the board and
baton begins
so what's on there now is that
split place masonry block and then as
you have the addition on the back
which was done probably in the 80s or
90s that's just a standard major block
we'll most likely be able to match that
but that's one of the things that we're
looking at is
make sure we see you can see that
standard masonry so we'll carry that
through
and there's a there'd be a consistent
line addition
old addition
by the way
the house is elevated to the extent that
it is
you can also see that we are beginning
to kind of look at some landscaping
trying to increase the landscaping so
it's
not to address
right
and then um you know lastly kind of two
common things uh talk about a little bit
uh one is ensuring where your downspouts
are gonna go
so they don't interrupt what you're
trying to do
in terms of a look and the house
sometimes that can get tricky especially
when you have the
the
where it occurs with the
larger
the existing ridge and then the previous
edition ridge and how you work in that
corner down there and and how that works
not not just needs to be dealt with and
then
again maybe just a
recommendation
uh we we tend to find
that people regret
not having something over it
the the sliders are not your primary
entrance to the back right
so you're using the the uh the east
elevation door is your back door
that correct or will the slider be your
back door so our main back door is right
where that arrow is
that's our main
access point
back there we have a path that
goes to that door so that's our main
access okay
so the one on the side that you may
appear to be a slider um that yeah that
one
is is actually just a regular opening
door okay and
we're addressing how the orientation of
that door right now
yeah and as just answered just curious
on that because uh sometimes the absence
of a of a roof over a stew
can be an issue because you're unloading
groceries but you've obviously worked
with that for a long time oh yeah yeah
we have just enough overhang not to get
too wet yeah you stand within the first
10 inches you'll be dry yeah the
groceries go to there and then we stand
back
okay that's all in my comments
mr hall
yeah um
i think the massing is very done very
well i think the the placement of the
additions are all done very very well
um my concerns are
the board and baton i'm assuming that's
like a hearty plank
it's still
oh it's metal okay so we don't so the
the materials between the aluminum
siding and that okay so that that
clarifies some of that and then the
window placement
and this maybe this is just a drawing
error but i'm
the front porch looks to clip those two
windows on the front elevation yes so
i asked the same question
on the porch and the
underneath it it pops back up so in
elevation yes it does
um it does clip it towards pharmacy but
i think that has something to do with
the structure that's kind of sagging so
you don't quite see the top of that a
lot of sagging out there yeah
um and then the other comment is just um
i think the placement of gutters and
downspouts everything needs to be
studied well to make sure those land in
the right places but i think it's very
well done and going in in a good
direction okay thank you
yeah
i i like that you're trying to uh
make it a clean
somewhat modern um i i appreciate how
you've done it for the mixing of
materials but then also painting it all
white i think will be very nice so
um i really don't have much to add um i
i think your front door is an
opportunity though to do something
really great there so and i'm not sure
that what you've drawn is really
um as cool as it could be but other than
that i think it's great so thank you
i think pete has a lot
yeah i just want to make it if you look
at the photo the uh the front porch
actually does have existing board batten
so is the newborn man gonna
two things i would if you're not gonna
remove that existing
and replace it with metal
i would try to match
that profile on the spacing of that yes
and i i i did go let's say it's 12
inches yes and i i'm trying to keep the
smaller of the the vertical on the the
addition so i'll check that but that's
good and the other reason i would highly
recommend that is at 16 or larger than
12 unless you get a really thick
gauge siding it's an oil can so you're
not going to no matter how good your
installer is it's going to it's going to
wobble and
reflect the light so i think you're not
going to be happy with that so 12 will
help eliminate that especially on a
vertical surface
one yeah that's it i think this is
drawing
they're not they're a little wider in
the photo
they're about one foot
which is good i think it's
i didn't notice that
at first until pete pointed out but i
like that because then it'll it it makes
a reference to it complements it
we're trying to use those kind of
compliment the existing house yeah it's
the intent
i do have one question as i look at that
west elevation so you have no windows
going in behind those four trees that
you're showing is that correct right
so my only worry would be that those
trees aren't going to look like that
probably the first day that you plant
them and so as it goes up it's going to
look odd not to have any windows in that
facade and that's not something we would
normally
approve
for the front of a house
to allow that
much of a
expense without a window in it does
anybody else have a problem with that i
do same same reason and i i think
windowing and i you know staff i think
can work with them on that i think
windowing in general uh needs some
tweaking uh and i think that would be
part of it the street elevation is
obviously key uh sometimes things don't
grow if we have to put a lattice up and
grow things it kind of suggests there's
a blank there to be filled uh and then
trees in front of us suggest you had a
bigger blank
it could even be like just four small
windows or something that's kind of fits
in with what you're trying to do maybe
they're a little higher than normal or
something but i just feel like
to rely on landscaping
that can die and the next people can
tear out and then we're stuck with a
thing with no window and it could be a
problem so i guess i would ask that some
windows be placed in that okay
it looks like that might be the master
new master first floor master
yeah we have
a problem trying to get the layout well
with your bed your bed
headboard right it's probably sitting on
the stairwell well you need wall space
so you can actually put placement of
furniture and then the other idea is
that you know you get your best light
from the south side which is
to your left there
um so we're trying to get the best
natural lighting in there so we don't
have all these glares and sometimes like
what you'll find with some of the
lighting is that you'll have like blinds
that come down or you know if you're if
you have a light sleeper sometimes when
you have light sleepers they'll bring
their blinds down they'll stay down and
you'll see that
as you walk by and blinds could be you
know in different heights and different
variations and that could also have
its impact so that's one part of the
reason why we're looking at
not having in theirs
there's a there's a potential to look at
against suggestion but you have that
little window above your water closet in
your bathroom yes mirror that over and
over put it in the corner of the room
because that's the closet that where
that frame is yep that's okay you can
have a window i don't want to i would
put it all the way the trellis is on the
closet wall i would put that i would
suggest looking at it and you may
already have putting a little window in
the
in the bedroom
in the the
west elevation on the
south side
right
mirroring this the same window that's in
your water closet room the same size but
on that little addition but in the
corner
the third tree is the third providing on
the right right right side right there
maybe and i get it you may put it in and
be like it's kind of weird and then also
i think you also could have just a
transom windows that would look good
right above your headboard that's
everything but again
you have to work with the furniture and
i also would highly encourage a window
in your closet i don't know why people
don't like windows in their car
i never quite understand that because
it's always really nice to have
natural light in your closet and i think
i heard you say you're going to replace
all the windows yes they're all all
around the house
i think that's key too
yes
okay so we've made quite a few
suggestions um would you like to come
back next month would you like to table
this and come back next month and then
review it again or what would you like
to do
i think we can look at it and then come
come back
okay
so if we table it then um
you'll be on the agenda next month and
uh if you just submit to karen again
then we review it and hopefully it's
good to go so should we table it to a
certain date yes
is next month okay or would you like
more time
no that should be fine
february 10th
and maybe preaching to the choir here
but the um as you know from
being in the design field
um
things are made better
when we can kind of look at them work
them over uh because you know you're
going to spend your life in this house
this is going to be your pride and joy
so now is the time to kind of say well
maybe i need to rethink that or no i'm
going to hold fast on that
this is that
design development phase if you will so
i encourage you to put that kind of
thought and effort into some of the
things we're talking about here it'll be
for the good of a what could be a great
house here
thank you
i've also shared this with elena who is
our landscape consultant being that they
had intentions of adding
different landscaping to work with the
applicant if she had any recommendations
i just thought i'd share that
okay
so do we need to vote on tabling this
let me get some money
is there anyone in there thank you is
there anyone in the audience that would
like to speak about this application
i don't see any
anybody want to make a motion to move we
table the application to our next
regular scheduled meeting
second
uh call the role mr scott yes strasser
yes mr hall yes mr hellman yes adam tony
yes
okay thank you very much great thank you
thank you
it's a great lot they haven't that's
awesome
drove by today i was like that's
fantastic um our next application is uh
number these app
21-48 the address is 219 mark drexel
the applicant is amy lauerhouse the
owner is francis moss and eric katz
the applicant is
seeking recommendation to visa for
architectural review and approval of a
certificate of appropriateness for a
detached garage and art studio
okay
this application is in front of us for a
recommendation to um
he's up as it will need a variance
um my biggest concern about this project
and that's the reason that if you any of
you noticed
that amy had added on a couple drawings
really sorry at my request no that's
that's no problem i think that just from
the footprint just from the floor plan
that was provided
um
it was hard to tell
it just really looked
very much like the garage is very close
to size of the house i kind of look like
two i get another primary structure on
the lot so i asked amy to put together
i'll start at the back
two more drawings one
this is the footprint um
this drawing which provided a view from
the front
so you can see
how it would appear from the from the
from drexel
and the second one
i'm looking for it amy i think it's all
the way on the right yes you just oh
there we go there we go um this is kind
of what i was even more interested in is
to have either a section or an elevation
through the site to see um in in height
how it is architecturally we're not here
to talk about the variance but it's kind
of hand-in-hand because
um
it's an oversized garage
so i wanted to make sure it didn't
appear
um
three-dimensionally
like it's a second home on the lot as
well
um
[Music]
there's some details that amy and i had
talked to that i you know that are
changed a little bit some of the the
rafter details and um
although they're they're there
they are
i think if we swear in amy yes and then
you can go through the details yes
please state your name amy lower house
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is
true i do thank you
you just tell me what drawings you would
like oh no i um
do you just want me to
do a present okay okay
uh so yeah the um the proposal here is
for garage slash art studio
um my client i i did put uh just give
you an example of of the kind of art
that she does um it's basically an epoxy
resin process which creates fumes
and so she wants a studio that is
detached from
the house
so that we can properly handle those
fumes because she has young children
um at the same time they don't have a
garage at all on this site um so we're
adding um a couple
parking uh spaces as well in the garage
um
the you know this is a
a beautiful house on a very large lot in
in a great
location and
my goal was to really
um number one kind of break down the
massing of the garage
so that it looks appears more like a
carriage house kind of feel
and add enough
karen and i talked that there's kind of
a balance there of
adding enough detail that it really
um does the home justice as an accessory
structure but at the same time
not making it too detailed
so we did talk a little bit about i have
some of the
rake and brackets there you can see on
the bottom
of perhaps taking those off
um
just to maybe simplify it a little bit
one of the other things we did is
put the doors on the south side which is
not the street facing side
so that
it's
they can get more sunlight
into the studio space
but at the same time it doesn't have any
doors that face face the front
um
let's see what else
um
yeah i i guess we feel that given the
size of the lot i mean
we're not even anywhere close on lot or
building coverage limits just because of
the large size of the lot and and i
think that
even for me the drawing was helpful that
i did
today
that last drawing that shows sort of the
whole
length of the lot and how far away if
you're either driving or walking
on the sidewalk how far away you'd be
from the garage
um and how
it would even when i did the front
elevation photo with the garage
that's obviously a scaled drawing that
shows them in scale but in reality that
garage is going to appear a lot smaller
because it's going to be so much further
back on the lot
is there a staff report did you do a
staff report on the ship
yeah
i
no speak speaking yes yeah i just
said i don't do can i go first
is all right absolutely so um i'm just
because i'm thinking about the massing
in the size which is what you led with
and that's why i thought i'd go first
with that and you already addressed it
i took the opportunity to drive around
the block a few times and walk around
and the scale of the other properties
around there the buildings
that was
for me made a big difference because
when i first looked at this i thought it
does read almost like another house
right
but when you see the scale of the houses
around it i don't think you're gonna
have that issue and also it there is it
is really deep uh and
even hard to see what's going on back
there
because of all the vegetation and the
houses around yes so with the other
mammoth stuff going on around it i i
don't feel like the garage is out of
proportion at all or the structure and i
don't think it would read
like another residence
just because there's a lot of large yeah
and i i agree i think those drawings
helped a lot i think for your zoning
presentation you even might want to do
like a a
site plan crocheted
quick and dirty like showing all the
houses on that block like
like in
in dark
like all
all colored in right right see the
proportion of this site
and and it might be helpful also to do
just a a panoramic streetscape okay just
exactly to your point so
you can have that in front of us too
yeah i mean amy and i had a very long
conversation about this
and and we ended up talking about
she needed to demonstrate how it's not
doesn't look like a second house but
also we talked about the detail whether
how far do you go on a detail of a
garage do you make it a little less
a little simpler
yes
yeah that's a fair point because you
mentioned um you want to do
do justice to the house
but
uh
that it's a fine line between
it looking like another house right
and i think you know this this kind of
gives you the idea that
even walking
like you said joanne even walking up and
down that street you'd never be able to
see that garage fully because
the house basically cuts it off so
um
i think it's tucked back far enough that
that it won't
it i i personally do not think it would
ever appear like a second residence
pete you want to go next
sure
i don't have any problem with massing i
think it's it's a big garage i think
you're
my only comment to massing is the
especially when you look at the photo
and i appreciate actually like the photo
stitching with the rendering behind i
think that's it's a little skewed of
course but i think it's effective
i think the masking of the gable of the
garage
it actually does a little bit overpower
the
well it's not proportionate with the
kind of long slender
vertical nature of the existing house
uh i think this this is a fabulous
house i i mean the addition on the back
we could talk about but the original
house i would love to see what that
really would look like in the back um
and i get your pulling from some of the
the covered areas uh this little brick
piers and the details for that so i
appreciate that i would like to have
seen a little bit more pulled from the
house okay um i questioned in some of my
comments with
staff on the the kind of craftsman
brackets that you're adding
um that's not i couldn't see that in the
photos on the existing house i know
there's brackets and some shade things
which are really interesting yeah on the
front i would i would have liked to
maybe seen that maybe on the over the
garage doors or somewhere else and i
know there's not a lot of opportunity
for that but i think there's some some
ways to tie those together and they're
not very expensive to build so they're
right and they're just really unique um
you don't see that on the left and right
there that under those windows
on the left there is a kind of almost
like a shade almost like a window
planter that shelf that they put for
boxes to sit on so if you know if you
can zoom into that photo that you're
so under the left window in the right
window you can see the shadow lines cast
yeah yeah you see that a lot of times
like over windows now they can't provide
some shading right but here i believe
they were installed to put planner boxes
on yes um
very unique very interesting so maybe
pick picking a couple of those elements
up
i know that you don't have brick on your
over by your garage doors but you do in
brick houses you do see those kind of
brick arches with a flat panel behind
um
i i see that you kind of just did square
headers in your stucco right but maybe
maybe looking at doing a little stucco
arch okay maybe over the garage door so
just to kind of pull that detail and tie
the buildings together
i'm not saying it needs to be a brick
garage but right i think there's ways to
kind of tie those elements together a
little stronger i'm curious at this the
sitting area
yes
uh
it to me it looks like the front door of
the house if this is a house but i get
why it's there and the reason for that
so i think that'll help tie it together
um
but overall i think i think it'll sit
well i don't think you see a lot of it
from the street so i don't think the
massing it pushes back a little bit is
that big of a deal
its footprint is large
but again that's that's not
our
scope so
i'm okay with it
um
a couple things and i've gone back and
forth between the plans and the
elevation about 12 times here
and i'm i'm just honestly trying to get
comfortable uh with that um
and and i guess some of the concerns
that i have and i kind of agree with
what everybody's saying but uh when on
on the east elevation with the you know
two sizes of the gable
it it would suggest to me that the
larger roof that then meets the uh the
garage roof should be slightly lower
than the thing and because it because
the other uh gable is smaller and
subservient to the main gable
it seems like the roof then coming down
off the main gable should be a foot or
two
beneath that and would in in my mind i
think would give it some uh some harmony
because i i look at that and it does
it's it it it's just in my understanding
uh it gives me a it
i can't get settled on on that image so
that's one question
are you just so i can clarify so i
understand are you talking about taking
the gable structure of the little
covered porch and lowering the roof of
that the the roof that's above that yeah
the major river the top side a foot or
two underneath just to create a
subservience
that that
in my mind would make it uh
much more comfortable the other thought
i would have with the uh being an art
studio
uh and the little sitting porch
uh i'm curious why there wouldn't be a
door
there where the two windows are
and that would also maybe provide a
little more verticality that then picks
up the garage door motif if you will and
also
allows access to that without going
right outside because it just you know
the porch without it and would also
provide you know just a little bit more
additional light in that space so that
that was my other thought but uh
um
other than that i mean the the blank
walls are uh you know they are what they
are i think that's we have to be
i have to work with that uh it would be
nice if there was something there but
there isn't so life goes on there so
those are my comments
keith before you start one just going
back to that elevation i agree that
there wants to be some sort of vertical
element there and maybe it's not a door
because that's based on use and you have
all those sliding door opening doors
right maybe you interrupt the brick
there maybe there's a little bit more of
a bulkhead under that window that okay
maybe we have to look at that yeah i'll
look at that but i think there's an
opportunity there to kind of bring a
little vertical element at that window
unit
um maybe the window drops into the brick
a little bit i don't know if there's
precedent on the house for that but
since the whole first floor is brick but
in the porch area or it's in the
front elevation
yeah the
yeah
yeah there you go it's yes the left yeah
that window that brick is just running
straight across
a water table yep yep
but maybe breaking that dropping it down
or
just doing a panel detail yeah will help
give you a little bit of a
because in a way you really are making
this front porch
massing on this this elevation
uh maybe that'll kind of imply that
uh
yeah we didn't that that porch is
actually pretty small and so we didn't
want to put a door there to provide
because it would mean circulation and we
just wanted to put a couple chairs out
there but i like the idea of
making that a little more vertical it'll
feel less like you put a torch on the
side of the house because of that water
table through so as soon as you break
that it'll feel a little bit more
purposeful right right okay
sorry keith that's all good
i would i would agree i think the
existing house is fabulous um and i i
think what's missing is this link
between the two
um you know i look and i see a beautiful
tudor style home it's got a lot of
interesting details the arches brick
arches over the windows
um
the transition from the brick to the
stucco
um the idea of a slight roof
um i think are all pertinent to you know
how you know the approach for this i
agree with the brackets you know those
those are a little odd
um
and then you know the one thing on the i
think it's on the west elevation how the
brick just turns and this stops
i you know
you know it just
it's kind of right up against a fence so
you wouldn't even really really perceive
that
and then i i agree with the uh the
comment about the the hierarchy of the
roofs
um i can't tell from this perspective of
what's going on with the existing house
but there seems to be a little bit of
that going on with that too actually the
the front-facing gable and the
side-facing gable are equal
[Music]
i think that's my primary comment it's a
beautiful tudor style house and i don't
think that's really being expressed with
the garage well and that like i said
earlier i kind of was
wasn't sure as far as how
much of that detail to bring into an
accessory structure and but i like the
idea of of kind of bringing more of
those details to the structure did you
did you explore
some of that tudor detailing which is
just very simple
banding on the second floor in that
cable above the garage maybe in that
area you mean like the half chambering
yeah well the yeah if you go to the
front elevation photo
it's in the one gable that comes so the
one gable has the uh
on the right on the right yeah it's hard
to see
courtesy but there it's there it's very
simple yeah if there's no bracing it's
just kind of a vertical
right yeah and i think i mean again i
worry about scale of the one in the back
so
and i'm not sure what the window and
keith i'm jumping in on you now but yeah
maybe there's elements of that that come
through on just them yeah that one gable
or maybe it's a smaller gable i don't
know
right
i think you have to balance that out
okay
so
am i calling that tutor detail
less craftsman more tutor
the east cable
they balance the timeline is there
anything else thank you
now the only other comment as i look at
this too is the the rhythm of the
windows on the existing house and maybe
picking up on that i
these these windows just look uh
you know they look like normal sized
windows
and i think with the uh with the batons
going across and maybe some horizontal
trim
and getting the windows maybe to relate
more to what's going on here i think
that would all would help okay
so did i hear somebody say this is
getting a slate roof
no
yeah so i i disagree my first comment
when i saw this to karen was that this
looks like a small house i didn't really
even see how it was relating to the
existing house
so i i think literally if you could just
take some of those details and just
fit them onto this it could be great so
yeah like for example that mini side
porch there
on the main house you've got lots of
three combination windows four
combination windows if that were three
more narrow windows that dipped down a
bit into that course
or and then maybe the
maybe there's somewhere for timber in
those window box things right if you
just had one
something like that somewhere that would
be pretty pretty amazing okay that's a
good idea i don't think it's a lot i
think it's just there's proportion of
windows i mean keep keep running up a
good point and i think just ways to
pull more of the details of the existing
house this has been very helpful so you
have no windows in the north elevation
but that actually looks over onto more
of the property right that's not up
against a fence or anything right
it is it's it's on the north the north
side is the the property line side
and then so the west side
the west elevation
that's
that's the back
okay yeah because it does feel like it
could use more windows even in that for
a building this size i think it deserves
more windows than what we're okay
because that's the art studio correct no
that's a garage sale
i see okay
or something trim wise
that might
this is the
like the rest of the house right you can
still have no windows on the garage part
right right
it doesn't have to be
i think that whoever said it was exactly
right you should face the windows more
on the house yeah but
the only thing i'll have to balance is
the
the homeowner the artist needs places to
um
hang her art while she's working on it
sure so that's why there was only the
single window in the back because we
have
basically mounting hardware so she can
mount her make sense her art
so so we want to see this back
well i don't see what harm that
i'm thinking through this whole thing as
we're doing this
you have two weeks before zoning right
which i think
you're gonna have a better shot at a
variance if you incorporate these design
changes before that absolutely and then
it's only two weeks
february's such a short month that's why
i was playing on my phone
yeah that was my only question if um i
go to the zoning and then when i come
back here how how does that work yeah it
would be the 10th of february so right
zoning is the 27th of january
so unless we want to make the conditions
in the in the recommendation to the bees
app and that karen can make sure and
my point is i think this is enough
changes and it's a significant enough
experience that
it's not it's not a it's not cumbersome
to you to come back to us i think we
should do that the condition that it
returned here
that there's a condition to return here
for final design review
did we've done that yeah
okay that's fine if you can take updated
drawings to that to the bezat meeting
saying that you're already working on
the things that we're talking about okay
okay
okay that will put you behind it all
because you'll know it beats up whether
or not you're gonna be able to do this
right right
no that's totally fine okay so we'll
table you to next month um is there some
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak on this application no no
we rarely do that we don't want a table
oh exactly we want to give we want to
make a motion to recommend it
to to be just yeah with conditions the
condition the final design
the final design return to the
architectural review board
okay
we have done that before yes i guess
many times yeah a lot of times okay
all right so let me go ahead and read
the findings
findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
bcap-21-48 for property located at 219
north drexel
for a detached garage slash art studio
the board finds it appropriate to
recommend a certificate of
appropriateness
with the condition
that the applicant add tutor details on
the east gable of the garage
proportionate windows
and that final design review return back
to the arb at the february 10 meeting
for some reason it can't be in february
does that really matter or just return
to the yeah well if we if we find it on
there then we don't if we put a date
certain then we don't have to notice it
here that that's fine yeah right
yeah
the 10th and but if it doesn't return on
the 10th then i will have to send a
notice that will be the following or
whenever
so does somebody want to make that
motion
a second
thank you
mr scott yes
mr hallman yes mr howell yes
strasser yes madame turn yes
thank you for your feedback i appreciate
it thank you
can't wait to see it i know
okay our last application is number b
zap 21-2 the address is 2488 fair
the applicant is aaron ford the owner is
kevin and dara albert
the applicant is requesting a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for architectural review
and approval of a certificate
yeah a certificate of appropriateness
for a two-story addition to the rear of
the existing home
karen will give us background okay
um
i had a lovely conversation with aaron
today was that today yep
it's like a long time but
um we're gonna um i recommended that we
treat this like a preliminary review
because there are um a lot of design
issues that we talked through
um basically
but the summary of my staff report is
that here in bexley this is a beautiful
home the existing home is a beautiful
home
we don't have
any problem embedded with having a
modern
you know a modern
um mast edition on the back of any home
but i think that there's some misses
here design wise and i've already talked
this through with aaron so i suggested
that he come today
to hear some feedback um from you guys
what i pointed out is that there's um
if you're gonna do a modern edition on a
traditional house there needs to be a
real effort to kind of
make eaves relate to each other windows
relate to each other um
maybe not instead of using cement board
with hot horizontal lap when the rest of
the house is
cedar shake maybe you do something
really different like a paneled edition
or i'm not going to design it on the fly
but we talked a lot about those kind of
changes
so i suggested that he come tonight and
hear some board feedback we can limit
the time or whatever but just to kind of
hear some design
guidance
and a reaction to this original proposal
of course you have the opportunity to
approve it if you want to
but that was just my staff
um
opinion that it could use a little
guidance and also there's two sides that
have absolutely no windows
um
that probably needs to be looked at as
well i get that there's interior
placement issues and it's just a skinny
addition but um
probably
it may not even need windows it may just
need a different kind of sighting
treatment
there's a lot of design issues that are
out there
um so i thought i would throw it to you
guys
and this will end up being a
recommendation to be the app because
there's a variance factor with the
proximity of this addition to the
detached garage okay
okay you swear the opportunity please
state your name aaron record you saw me
swear or from the testimony you're about
to give this evening is that true yes
thank you
so you want to give us a little
presentation
well um
you kind of see what it is
basically just trying to get her a
little bit better kitchen
and
currently they have a boy and a girl and
they both share a bathroom upstairs
so
the theory would be to try to give her a
bathroom of her own means they're kind
of getting older
um and then she has a really
rinky-dink laundry
right now um so the theory was we could
try to squeeze it in alongside the
bathroom upstairs but that being said
the one blank wall which would be the
east elevation
um
on the downstairs that is the proposed
section is to be lockers on the upstairs
that's the washer and dryer wall
um and to put a window in the upper
section would be a real issue i don't
think putting on the first floor would
be a big deal at all
i might
throw in some light
but uh i think the second floor would be
the issue
and then we talked today about
looking at the uh
on the north wall
how it doesn't line up with the upper
section
of the original house
on the north elevation there you go
so looking at that on the right hand
side maybe stepping that section back so
it's even
and then it doesn't line up with the uh
the gutter line and the way that he drew
it is because he was matching ceiling
heights
um my thought after i talked to karen
today was if we are still forced to do a
rubber roof which i'm not a huge fan of
but just is what it is
could we then
um well let's rafter a little hip around
it to make it match that gutter line so
that that gutter line could flow all the
way around the back side of the house
okay uh
who would like to start
oh yeah i'd be happy
um
well um
i guess my first
question would be
is there or can there be an architect
that could get involved with this
project and i say this for for this
reason
um
we can't play we can't the commission
can't be put in the place of kind of a
hot and peck
way of
backdoor designing this edition right
because that never works and it's not a
good process um my humble opinion we are
a long long long way away
uh from something that makes sense on
the back of this house that's one of our
previous sections of fair avenue
pretty means not just the front means
the sides and the back uh and it's a
cohesive street
and
this edition has concerns
on a lot of fronts to be to be fair with
you uh so
i don't know where we're going to get
some addition design help or whether you
think that's needed uh it would make the
process i think smoother uh but i just
think we have a real long way to go with
this application
just being fair and straight up
mr hall
i uh i concur that um i think this is a
beautiful house i know the house i don't
live far from here
i think um
there are some significant problems i um
you know i get that you can do a
contemporary addition to an existing
structure but i'm this is this is far
from a contemporary addition the
materialism is
is is not consistent with anything
that's on the house
itself
sorry i mean but where he's got
i'm not even sure where the note came
from he was never supposed to have
cement board involved in this house
other than
possibly on the corners versus where it
has cedar maybe doing like a cement
board corner on it but it should have
been drawn with cedar shakes
when you say he is that an architect um
that's ron edwards the residential
design guy there he actually works for
vpl architects out of lancaster
but he is their draftsman
he's he's done several drawings for
customers of mine prior to this
so
why he's even involved
even where the addition over here on one
side doesn't align with the um the
dormer at the top there's a joint there
and you know it's being dictated by this
there's a lot of and that's why i concur
because there's a lot of details in here
that are just really difficult to deal
with that
i think somebody who you know thinks
like a designer can really get in here
and resolve
the
the flat roof to me is
it it just doesn't fit and you know and
you get the conflict with the dormer in
the back and i'm sure the owner doesn't
want to get into the cost of
modifying the dormer or anything but
um
i i really do think that this is it's a
long ways off
from
um
you know from resolving the issues that
i think this board would have going
forward
so aaron are you building it is that yes
yeah yeah i'm i've never pretend to be a
designer
i can build it if you can draw it but i
don't know i asked who he was because it
would be helpful to have a designer at
this
at this point
yeah very hard for you to yeah it's
actually essential
there's just too many details it's just
it's been
i've worked with you before right
you're i mean you know how to build but
this is about the design on the front
end
and this is a tough one yeah i
i don't know if the roof of that dormer
should come out and engage with this and
so you get that third floor
extra space i
i don't know enough about what's going
on
with doing the addition outside that
like that upper pitch even though it
shows if you look at the actual pictures
of it it's really not steep enough i
mean we'll be moving back to going
rubber and
you know
rubber's fine but in my experience i
mean i'm i've been doing it a while and
i've actually had to replace rubber that
we put on before at this point so i
don't love rubber myself
it's to me it's not about the use of a
rubber roof or a flat roof right
necessarily it's a use about
that integration with the existing
structure
this just looks like it's slapped up
against the existing building
mr scott would you like to go next
um
well i i think
i agree with everything that everybody
said and again you're the builder and
i've heard good things about you but i'm
not sure i mean i don't know what kind
of feedback we can give um
i think the the massing is i think i
would agree with mr hall's comment about
if it's going to be modern then go
modern uh maybe it's a
a totally different type of material i i
was surprised to see this horizontal
cement board i know now you say it's
cedar shake which to me doesn't really
actually solve the problem right i think
the material for that if it's going to
be if you're going to make a statement
saying hey we're going to put this box
on the back of the house well then
you know paint it white and make it all
smooth stucco or a hearty some reveal
system or something so that it is much
more and then the windows are different
and the way it's you know it's just
treated as a very different kind of a
unique object not saying that that's
something that we would even approve but
it's you know it makes a statement
towards being different and knowing that
we can't match this exact sighting which
is fantastic and we have some challenges
with massing in the back
i also was thinking you know could you
extend that upper roof
roofing material aside you know i think
you lose some window up there but i
don't know what the result would be
i think there's a big challenge is
is the overall matching doesn't align
with other parts of the house it doesn't
points
in the elevations but then other sides
doesn't uh it doesn't the windows are
kind of
passing by other changes in the masking
on the second floor
it's just there's a lot of little
quirkiness to it that's getting solved
in plan it doesn't work on the elevation
so i think my recommendation would be
would be to push the limits a little bit
on that upper roof maybe extend it out
and maybe look at
removing a window here and
adding a window here to help balance out
the the fenestration on the facade so
that it
it works well i think the little side
elevations here are
pretty tough uh in this this this
neighborhood i think those are those are
pretty pretty pretty long bland sides
and don't have windows or any
articulation to the to the facade
material so i i would be interested in
trying to break that down a bit
but other than that we could talk about
this for a while yeah we could
stress it yeah
i i wonder if saying that the attempt
was to have something more modern
is making too big of an assumption
i don't think it was that thoughtful or
purposeful i think
frankly i just think it's not well
designed
and not no no offense to edward's dis
presidential design but i don't think
it's their this is their deal you know
like
maybe maybe they don't have a lot of ex
but here they don't have a lot of
experience with these kinds of homes and
designing an addition like this
and what you said
peed about
thought a lot of thought probably on the
interior but not a lot of thought of how
that was going to look and then you just
wrap it with some vinyl or whatever it
is so i think it's back to the drawing
board frankly and
someone suggested hiring a qualifier
a creative not qualified but a creative
architect that can take on this kind of
challenge would be well money well spent
it's not that expensive
and you won't waste the next three
months coming back here and getting
denied over and over
do you know what the plan is the
floating door is always great right we
see this
there's obviously some sort of deck or
some sort of steps that are going to go
in do you know what the plan is for that
ideally there would be a step yes
there's a step well there's something
yeah
yeah because that is actually all black
top in the back and if you look at the
current pictures there's a little stoop
back there that's
needing some love
um and it really has like about a six
inch step from the floor of that up into
the house yes you know that's a great
opportunity to improve what they have
instead of just putting a little stuff
and while we're on that i think um again
we don't like walking in people's
backyards not kind of the thing to do so
when we don't have photos
i don't believe there's any other photos
for this thing it puts you in a
disadvantage puts us at it
and then likewise the site plan uh that
was submitted um
is pretty schematic so we really don't
know where the pavement stops and starts
in relation to this edition what's green
space what's not green space uh so
again i just want to reiterate um
we owe it to this house and we owe it to
the owners um to give this a really good
shot and to do something that's
gonna make this house
equal to or better than it presently is
being that this is a recommendation to
the board of zoning and planning and
this board can't table on application
that's going to the board of zoning
planning i think it would be in the
applicant's best interest to table this
application
both at this meeting and the board of
signing and planning and just but simply
bring back your fresh design in february
okay
um
the one thing i will say
um i agree with everything that's been
said i do think it could be really
interesting if you used stone on the
back of it because you've got stone
already on the front and you could make
a nice transition to stone on the back
and it would look like it was going to
follow through with the house
i know that's expensive but
it's not a very big addition and so
maybe that's
um a good approach but
so at this point
we are not recommending that you go to
be zap with this no
um and so
you basically um
your architect would need to redraw and
come back next month and we we can do
that by tabling it right
i think the applicant should table it
based on what you've heard from the
board
yeah i would say so
yeah i think what she's saying you we're
we're suggesting that you suggest yeah
i've been definitely you requested okay
and then it'll come back next month so
if yeah well i mean honestly
by the time we deal with some of it it
might end up being
the following yeah i don't know okay so
you just need to let the city know that
because right now we'll put you on for
next month but he can extend it to two
months but if we just stay until
february 10th
yeah then then at least if you do come
back on the 10th we don't have to notice
it but you can just call us and say i'm
not going to make it by the way
and then then we will notice it
that's fair
but at least you've got some good
feedback for concerns with existing
design
and if if you have a designer that you
know that you want me to connect with
without going to the back i can't even
think about i i honestly i had photos
and when i thought i loaded them it
appeared that they were i tried to put
them in a file like a pdf file and
that's the way that it appeared that it
loaded i wasn't aware they just sent the
one because when i clicked on it on mine
i just saw it
yeah and aaron i appreciate that you
come but honestly the person who's
designing it
it would be really beneficial to have
them here so if you can
get them to come next time that would be
great okay okay
do we need a
vote then to table it yeah he's motion
to table so
we have requested a table so if you want
to vote
um mr scott
we need a motion we need a motion to
table move the table second
mr scott yes mr hellman yes mr hall yes
yes adam tony yes
okay thank you so much
we have anything else um i just want to
tell you that
give you guys an update of course with
covet everything is behind and
everything is unexpected and we never
know what's coming next
but between bill and i and i understand
larry you did some um yeoman's work with
bill also
we've started to merge together the
document that i put together
with bill's drawings and i think we're
up to like 100 pages already
and um i am meeting with ben tomorrow
mayor kessler tomorrow to go over well
where we are right now um so i just want
you to know that we we're really moving
on it
but there's just
we just never know how many people we
can meet with and who's well enough to
meet and all that stuff so awesome maybe
by way of just since we have
30 seconds here um we can close the
meeting if you want
good um