thank you
three
okay
uh we will call to order the uh Thursday
January 12
2023 Bexley Architectural Review board
meeting
let's start with the Roll Call
Kathy
here
uh this is our time for public comment
if there's someone in the audience that
would like to uh speak about something
to the board that is not on the agenda
tonight you can come forward if you
would like to speak about something that
is on the agenda tonight we will wait
until we get to that item on the agenda
is there anyone that has something else
they would like to talk to the board
about
okay seeing nothing
uh next thing is approval of minutes
from the November meeting and I have a
they're blank in there uh for the
applicant's name
for 420 North Cassidy is the last
meeting which is right as well so that
will be added so as amended
okay is there a board member that will
approve the meeting minutes from
November
so moved
second
yes please
uh the next item then Kathy can you go
through and explain that there have been
a couple applications that have been
pulled off the agenda tonight just so we
want to make sure no one's sitting in
the audience waiting for something
that's not going to happen yes so the
general will notice that goes out to all
the neighbors within 200 feet of these
cases
um there were some that were withdrawn
so 295 South Dawson has been withdrawn
690 Vernon
is not on the agenda it was not complete
21 South Parkview that has been tabled
at the request of the applicant until
the February 9th meeting and 28 34
Powell was also tabled by the applicant
until the February 9th and February 23rd
ARB and board of zones if anybody's here
to hear those cases they will not be
heard this soon
yeah
thank you our next uh agenda item is to
approve
um the consent items on the agenda so
the board has reviewed all of the
applications and we have gone through
and decided that there's a certain
number of them that um we made
suggestions to they went ahead and did
the uh the the items that we suggested
so we will have one vote on those items
for our approval and they are
application number ARB 22-72 the address
is 2670 Sherwood
application number ARB
22-63 the address is 80 South cassingham
application number ARB 22-64 the address
is 211 North cassingham
application number ARB 22-66 the address
is 178 Stanberry application number ARB
22-69 the address is 976 Grandin
application number ARB 22-70 Address is
165 North Columbia
application number ARB 22-71 the address
is 299 North Parkview and the last one
is application number bzap 22-49 and the
address is 2456 Fair Avenue is there
anyone in the audience that came to the
meeting tonight and wants to speak about
any of these applications if so please
raise your hand or come forward
I'm Madam chair did you mention ARB 2263
and ARB 2264.
yes okay yes
and just to reiterate for the record
that any of the conditions that the
board relayed to me I've related to the
applicants and they've all agreed to do
those changes and revisions
okay so is there a board member that
will make a motion about those consent
uh agenda items so moved
seconded
Matthew
yes
yes yes
Mr higher yes yes
okay uh starting with old business then
our first application is bzap 20-52 the
applicant is the Community Builders the
owner is 420 North Cassidy Ave LLC the
location is 420 North Cassidy Ave the
applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval for a three-story
structure with commercial on the first
floor in residential on the second and
third floors this application was was
remanded to ARB final design approval as
a condition of the visap approval
okay so um
we'll start with Karen to give us an
update on that and then we'll get to the
owner here in a second okay I'm really
going to leave a lot of the presentation
to Nicole who's been before us before to
explain the changes that have been made
but I just wanted to remind everybody
that we're here today um for
architectural approval only not zoning
issues
um and the general envelope and size of
the structure the massing the placement
is really not up for that's been
approved conceptually so we're here for
tonight is the approval of the details
of the building that that can mean
fluctuations in and out or changes in
Windows Doors Etc but not a general re
redo of the building
um this has been before us a few times
and I'm I'm just gonna
um I'm gonna give it to Nicole to to
talk through some of the changes there
were a lot of changes made the last time
I was presented but the board still felt
uh well they're kind of we were the
board was kind of in different places
different people
um some were not satisfied at all with
it
um some were just unhappy that some of
the details were still not
um well defined particularly on the
first floor level to show how The
Pedestrian interaction would take place
and work and how it feels comfortable on
the Cassidy
um
corridor uh the applicant submitted a
new packet and has addressed several of
the issues that we were concerned about
things like mechanical units warmer and
richer color textures
um there's better three the 3D
representations have been updated and
refined so that we can understand how it
fits into the streetscape some brick
details have been included as well as
some construction details which I
requested kind of
um at the last minute because I'm still
I still am concerned from a staff
perspective about the details
um I'm gonna go ahead and pull up the
drawings and let um Nicole walk you
through some of that
some of the additional changes that I
may have not pointed out and just tell
me when you want me to switch slides
um you know I will say that is the goal
of this board to help get this building
through the process
um with a good design
um and I think Nicole will probably
speak to some of the timing issues as
well having said that I'm concerned
about the design and I think it's really
important that we have you know a really
great piece of architecture and a
product that we can all be really proud
of
um
I would just put out there from the
beginning that as we go through this
maybe we can figure out some kind of a
tweak to the process or an additional
level to the process that we can
continue to work on the details and give
some kind of
um encouragement that we will get to the
final point but
um I'm gonna go ahead and let Nicole
speak just let me know when you what
slides you want up with
uh Nicole Knight
s are remember the testimony you're
about to get this picture yes ma'am
all right
before we dive in yeah I know there was
a lot of comments uh concern regarding
notification of this application and I
just wanted to point out at the end of
the minutes from the last meeting it is
stated that this application was able to
the January 12th meeting which typically
we don't the notice if it's made in the
public meeting that it's going to be
able to a certain debate however we did
send notification out on the 29th of
December and there was also a Time
posted on Monday via the Enforcement
Officers if there's any questions
thank you
hello again
how's everybody tonight
um so we recognize it's a long agenda
and we want to be mindful of your time
and so what we bring to you tonight as a
presentation is I'm going to walk
through some drawings and kind of talk
about what we heard from the board last
time and some of the changes that we've
Incorporated and also as Karen mentioned
kind of share our timeline and how we
hope that we can move forward on this
project both with the Architectural
Review Board and with City staff so
Karen if you want to go to the
elevations so as you can see and I want
to just also give a caveat that we are
on the agenda to start talking with the
tree commission about the landscaping
for the site and we're really excited to
do that we've had some preliminary
feedback and we're hopeful that the
design that we are envisioning on the
landscape side will also align with the
city's goals for tree canopy and
softness so um this is the Landscaping
on this is not representative of what
the final Landscaping is I actually
think there's probably going to be more
trees but I want to just make that clear
because that's been a question that's
been presented to us by other parties is
is this what the final Landscaping is
going to be
um so in the last meeting we heard a lot
of comments about the details but we
also heard a lot of comments just about
Simplicity of materials and of the
structure and so as you look at the
elevations that have been shared both in
the 3D renderings as well as in the 2D
elevations we really did try to think
about how we can simplify not only the
materiality but also start to think
about some of the detailing at The
Pedestrian level and so some of the
changes that we heard and that we
integrated were obviously on a signage
perspective we've removed the blade sign
and we will be thoughtful around how we
think about signage when it does come to
that Final End user in the space and we
will come back and work with City to
make sure that that sign is appropriate
for the end user and also is appropriate
for the scale for the building and for
wayfinding
um we also wanted to think about how the
building feels from a sightline
perspective for mechanical units and
there were
exhibits that are in the presentation
that were presented and I can jump to
them and so you'll see that we have just
a little bit taller of a coping not only
for a scale but also just to really
ensure that the sight lines that we felt
were sufficient that there's just no
doubt whatsoever that somebody who's
driving is going to risk being able to
see those rooftop units
um
we have again as I mentioned materiality
we've removed the lap sighting and
everything is now just a panel when it
comes to the bump outs at the the
windows and so that way it's just
something that's a little bit cleaner
and then last but not least we really
um we took a hard look at the detailing
around the masonry at The Pedestrian
level we heard you loud and clear and
there was some agreement from our side
too that it felt heavy and so we really
wanted to simplify it
um and and so we hope that that's
reflected a little bit better in the
elevations that have been presented and
as Kara mentioned we are in the process
of working on construction drawings and
so we did share some of the details that
we have on some of the conditions as it
relates to the windows and the doors and
we will continue to work on the
detailing we recognize that there are
some conditions that are not reflected
in those drawings and what we're hoping
for tonight is to work with ARB to
request hopefully a vote of approval on
the design with the conditions that we
continue to work with staff and with
members of the ARB to ensure that the
detailing around some of the conditions
at The Pedestrian level particularly are
done in a way that is thoughtful and
representative of what the city expects
from a timing perspective as I mentioned
we are working on CDs and we are working
through this process to try and get this
building in a position to be able to
move forward I think it's well known
that the site adjacent to this property
had contamin environmental contamination
and ours does as well and so we are
going through a very robust Buster
process which is a state and federal
process and it's going to take us
anywhere from nine to 12 months to wrap
that up but we need the drawings to be
complete as well so we can show
representation of where the
contamination lies in relationship to
the building and also how we're going to
be not only doing the remediation work
but also all of the vapor barriers and
any other sorts of Separation that might
be required
would you like for me to walk through
all of the drawings that we have in the
presentation I want I'm trying to be
mindful of time and also the fact that
you've seen we've been in front of you a
couple of times yeah I'd say you can
hold off and then if yeah if a board
member has a question you can address
that okay particularly so thank you
okay so the next thing we're going to do
then is we're going to hear testimony of
opponents and that might be in the
audience so if you are an opponent would
you please raise your hand
okay
um would you like to come forward and be
sworn in we can hear your testimony sir
hello um
do you solemnly swear or from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth thank you well I'll
I do are you going to approve it and
then they have all these things that
they're going to get done after the fact
why not just have them finish everything
and you know so we know exactly what
we're going to get
that makes sense
you're asking me specifically well
um you know this is your chance to to
say what you would like how you would
like to see things changed or be
different it's really not my chance to
to answer that to be honest I don't know
what changes can be made but I don't
love it and it's right at the beginning
of coming in the back sleep and I don't
think it represented so it's very well
all right thank you thank you thank you
is there anyone else who opposes the
project that would like to speak about
it please come forward
Kathy I'll swear you in please state
your name
do you solemnly swear or from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
thank you
um
so that's part of bees apparelli they're
the ones that addressed the number of
parking spaces that go with the building
this board really just looks at the
architecture of it you know the brick
the lines the things like that so
um if you have comments that would help
us in making decisions about the
architecture we would love to hear
your thoughts about that well yeah I
mean it doesn't really blend in with the
best neighborhood
s
because it's mostly you know what you
know
it is
[Music]
you know
I mean it's other than that you know it
is
something
that's about all I have to say
thank you thank you
oh uh there was one other hand that was
absurd did you wanna it should be
okay
okay is there anyone else who opposes
the project that would like to voice
their opinions
okay uh seeing none then the next thing
we will ask for is of any presentation
of supporters in the audience that would
like to
come and speak about the project
okay seeing no supporters okay so we
will go to the board next
um
I'll just start
Mr hire will you go sure first
um I apologize I wasn't here at the last
meeting but I did review the uh the
meeting on um online so I was able to
listen and hear most of the comments
um some of them were a little
faint but the comments uh from most of
the board members was Audible and
certainly the responses that you gave
were audible so thank you sorry I talked
loud no it was fine no it was perfect it
was perfect
um the thing that
I mean I was here for the review prior
to that when we had the a lot of roof
bumps and things that were have been
addressed
um but what struck me about the meeting
that I watched online and what I'm
seeing tonight is I think you're going
to have to tell me a little more about
the difference because I can't see it
other than the taller coping at the top
of the building
but everything else looks the same as
what was presented in the last meeting
in terms of materials so if you could
just tell us what those differences are
because I I would probably have to zoom
in to see what those are exactly
so our takeaway from the last meeting
was that um so this was our takeaway was
that the massing in terms of the
uniformity of the roofline and the bump
outs and of those elements were more in
more in line with getting to something
that was a simpler design and that
follow-up items for us were to further
simplify the materiality and some of the
details around
um the you know the windows and the
doors and especially Along The
Pedestrian level and so that's where we
sought to simplify the masonry openings
along the storefronts um you know could
you give an example
um The Masonry openings previously were
two bricks of running bond and now it is
uh just a simple opening on on the
ground level
at the windows where the paneling is
bumped out we had lap siding and we've
since replaced that with paneling so
that way it's just one consistent
materiality in the spandrel panels yes
okay yeah
um we also
um around the banding both at the top
and at the Limestone we're looking to
make sure that the detailing of that is
just a little bit more substantial in
that it really pops and provides a
little bit more of a delineation between
the materiality
what else did I
say so yeah there was the change to the
spandrel panel
um the second floor Windows had a bricks
around it was suggested that we remove
and we did as Nicole said that lower
level had a double stacked one of course
going up the side around the top and
down and we removed that on the rear of
the building there was some
inconsistency in how the window
groupings were treated and those are now
treated consistently and all grouped
together as double windows or similar to
those
on the front
okay so I think there was maybe a half
dozen specific comments related to
specific details that I think we
incorporated all of those as well as you
know showing things like mechanical
penetrations that have all been
shown on the sides of those projecting
Bays so that they're really not on the
facade
and then of course we've studied
Sidelines for for the topic had a focus
my takeaway from listening to the
meeting in November
uh was that
the massing is fine you know that this
is obviously we can regulate for a
three-story building at this location
it's the vision of Bexley to do that
we've all been through that we don't
need to go into that but my takeaway
from the meeting was that the details
would become more refined in a sense
simpler I don't know what that means but
I you know if I and I wasn't there so I
can't speak to that and I don't want to
backtrack but what I'm finding is a lot
of these details
um they don't feel simple to me they
feel kind of cheap so the projected
Soldier courses over the large openings
of the ground floor the soldier courses
projecting over the second floor windows
in the brick
um and then just this building is all
about flashing
I mean the only way this building is
surviving 15 years is if the flashing is
done absolutely perfectly and so I'm
concerned about that because that's not
really what Bexley does you know our
details for roof lines and for flashing
are subtle for the most part there are a
couple of examples on Main Street where
you know they weren't built to those
kind of standards and you can see it
um
and there are other buildings that have
been recently done on Main Street that
do meet that standard uh for instance
The Gramercy so you know and of course
that's a completely different ball game
it's a different budget I understand
that but
um I think for the ab to be consistent
in our dealings with commercial
mixed-use property we need to have some
consistency to reflect bexley's
um character and I'm I'm not really
seeing that here and
um again it might be a different uh
opinion from what you've heard before
but I could give some examples
of where I would see that consistency
coming back in this design and one of
them would be
um that
be coursing that is above the first
floor on the north side
where you have the Precast piece that
runs around and it has an aluminum
flashing cap on top of it okay and then
the canopy over the front entry door on
Cassidy
um and then the brick courses that are
it doesn't it doesn't look like there's
a some kind of band in the brick that
um identifies with that or continues
that detail but it might be something
that
you know
to unify this building I mean I
understand you have these Cuts but this
is a penetration or this is this is
something that is
you know connecting the two both the CL
the clabbered and the brick but in
Bexley we typically see other details
and it's only it's only a brick detail
it's only in the facade we're not
talking about you know creating more
bump outs or more recesses we're talking
about using brick to identify and and
bind the design better and it also
brings down into the human scale and I
think that was a concern was that we
wanted this to feel human so for
instance a soldier course that was flush
with the brick or came across and with
this and ran and came under this you
know would would be just a visual to
help tie it in remember that we're
dealing with The Pedestrian at this
point we're not dealing with you know a
vision coming down uh Cassidy where you
see this
uh Star Building right we we want the
details to be
as quality when you're right up at the
building as when you're you know looking
at it from a distance
um when you drive through downtown
Columbus and into Grandview and you see
all these new apartment buildings you
know you're driving by the most for most
of us are because we live here in Bexley
but we're driving by them really fast
and they look flashy and cool but then
you get up on them and you realize that
a lot of the details even some of the
new ones down to in my opinion the
details are not going to last they're
just they're bad bad caulking bad
flashing and I'm worried that that's
what we're going to get here based on
the details that I'm seeing in this
package I understand cost I understand
budget but I'm I'm hoping that there's a
way to reintroduce some of that
refinement into the brickwork in
particular on the ground floor that
would help to unify this structure
um
the precast
over time and the and the the flashing
above it the clabbered uh the Hardy
Board that's up there the panels of the
Hardy Board the flashing or at the Sills
of the windows I'm I'm really concerned
that in 10 years time that those are
going to start to really show their wear
and it's going to be a visual burden on
Bexley
and that's not your fault because this
is the budget that you've been given and
you know I understand that I just as as
an ARB member I have to point those
things out you know our goal is to
maintain the quality the visual quality
of of Bexley and we want these buildings
to endure
um so those are my concerns
um the colors are great
the awnings on the first floor they they
look they look too I mean maybe it's
just a rendering but they need to be
something
if you're going to sell me they need to
be a little more bexleyish
um and then
um are those aluminum storefront on the
ground floor those are all aluminum
storefront right okay and then you go
upstairs and it's all vinyl right
but the colors will be commensurate
you get them as as close as you can
right
right so
um you know we're talking about for me
we're talking about details but the
other thing that I I also I often wonder
is you could reduce that flashing on
above the precast
uh
and I'm just going to throw this out
there if the building actually had the
framing project over the cavity
so that you reduced that length of
horizontal on top of that Precast it's
done all the time it's a way to reduce
water infiltration but basically you're
taking the third floor and you're
pulling it out a little bit over the
cavity in this drawing it's not doing
that that's why that cap is has such a
big shelf on it I'm assuming so that to
me doesn't it it feels cheap it doesn't
look like Bexley that's my honest
opinion so I don't know if that is in
line with what other people on the board
were thinking but this is where I'm
coming from looking at what I'm seeing
here
[Music]
um
kind of hoping that from the last
meeting that I would have seen more
refinement to the details based on what
I heard in the last meeting
um
those are my comments
do you want to address any of those or
want me to go to the next board member I
say let's take all the comments and then
we can respond after we hear from
everyone okay
just briefly on that and kind of brick
details you're talking about we
certainly do all the time I think maybe
either we misunderstood a previous
comment or maybe it's a difference in
opinion but could be yeah we have
certainly a fair amount more quick
detailing and we were hearing the
reaction that that's was making things
overly
complicated we're certainly happy to
include that maybe in the project in
different ways but it might have just
been the kind of brick detailing you
know in terms of
how it feels my sense was that people
didn't feel that they were they were
Bexley details
um maybe they were you know their visual
on those was taking them to projects
that are outside of Bexley maybe in a
new development area
um where you're going to see lots of uh
new just contemporary designs but
they're in they're in a Zone where you
have a lot of them like Grandview yards
or something like that
but I know these brick detail you can do
them
um there's lots of buildings downtown
even in the arena district where I don't
know who the Architects were who the
builders were but a lot of those brick
details on those buildings are great you
know I don't know who the Mason was that
was in charge of putting them together
but we have good masons in Columbus and
there's no reason why we should shy away
from doing you know I'll call them clean
you know Bexley uh brick details that
bring us down to the human scale
um the Precast is gonna it's gonna go
and it's gonna be black and it's going
to look you know dirty over time even
with the metal flashing on it so I'm
worried about that material as well it's
the only bright material on this
building and you know when it goes in
it's going to look like Limestone it's
going to look great but over time it's
just going to turn black and splotchy
um and so I worry about that too that's
why old buildings have overhangs you
know so you don't have that condition
modern designs like everything to be
straight up and down and flush
but I would say that one comment that I
heard was about you know clean well done
modern detailing in the last meeting and
I kind of took that to heart you know
when I think about some other
contemporary designs that have been done
in Bexley whether it's a residence or
like the building down at Parkview here
um that building is all about the
details you know they're they're they're
beautiful modern details now that's a
different budget I get that but I think
it's just proportion it's you know
putting materials in that are going to
age well it's bringing it to that human
scale you know uh in the brickwork and
understanding that these Hardy panels
um I just don't know that's the right
material over for for longevity on this
building it might be great for 10 or 15
years but is it really going to be the
right material I mean you can see even
on our Market District that there's
Hardie board that's already you know
looking like it's bleaching or something
I mean there's really weird
um I don't know if it's because of the
flashing but it looks terrible and
there's nobody that's gone back up there
to paint it and and it's not Bexley
so we were all sold by this flashy
design for by Giant Eagle and we wind up
with cardie board that looks really bad
it looks really splotchy and I don't
know why it's doing that but I'm
concerned that that's going to happen
here especially on these panels
so though that's those are my thoughts
thank you
is there a board member that would like
to go
second okay
uh I I guess I have a more positive view
I appreciate the efforts you're making
um the material the quality of the
materials provided the depth of the
information is really very helpful
particularly the street views I think
that has gotten me very comfortable
particularly with the massing and the
scale and intrusion on the neighborhood
or the black thereof so I would like to
thank you for your efforts I don't
um I I'm going to defer to the on the
details because I think you are down to
the details at this point I I honestly
don't know what drastic changes you can
make to the materials within budget
um but you know some smart people here
who might have some ideas on that so
um I'm going to leave The Architects to
the details
or leave the details to The Architects
either way
you want to go next
Mr Scott
sorry
so uh first off so that a lot of the
comments that Mr higher was referring to
I think came from or some of them came
from me uh so I appreciate the effort
that you put in from the comments and
listening uh I think the the removal of
the
siding in the base is is a is a bonus I
think that wasn't working for me the the
Brick details that you had around all of
your punched windows on the first floor
the double row
really at a scale and and not
appropriate to a vaccine detail uh Mr
Hyde referred to it as simpler but or
maybe you mentioned simpler details I I
see they're just a little bit more
traditional yes they're simpler and that
they weren't they felt a little pushed
in the earlier design I think this is a
little bit more appropriate but it is
going to be in those details and I
totally agree with it with picking up
some of the horizontal lines in the
brick work easily can be done doesn't
add much cost of any
um it helps to kind of tie all that
together so I mean you do have a lot of
ups and downs and bumps in the massing
on the one facade uh but with that
cleaner roof line it does does kind of
balance that out
um the one question I have is with this
um the upper third floor which in my
mind is constantly leaning in and wants
to be answered which I would never say
do because I'm not a monster group fan
uh your your corner details are you
planning on literally doing butt joints
miter joints so no trim and all the
cornices that that would be a huge
problem I would have with that because
it would really lessen the quality of
the look
um the other Challenge and you can see
it in other developer uh and especially
wood frame structures when you have
multiple multi-floor cement board siding
um and again this is nothing to do with
the design other than uh it has a
tendency with the shadow lines the
weight it's never I get to see a perfect
installation of that uh so breaking up
the facade with Windows and actually how
you're with that material that's what
we're sold on you know making the second
and third floor Windows not only helps
modify a little bit of the massing and
the scale of that but also breaks up
that large linear lines of the siding so
I think that's a good move is your
cement board panels using a fry riglet
uh Channel system or is it a just but
the ring screen style they're they're an
extruded that nothing for eye product so
it's just just the panel well you
understand what I mean is there a metal
Channel between these there's a there's
a channel the channel is painted all the
same colors yeah so I think that's
pretty much it gives you a little bit
longer a little bit better quality look
to the product um and then it kind of
holds it all together without the larger
gaps
um so you know overall I think the the
building sits well I think I do
appreciate it as uh she mentioned that
all the different visuals I think that
helps I think with a high quality awning
uh I I like the awning because it helps
create that retail aspect of the
building
um I actually like a little bit more
modern slope to that I'm not a big fan
of the traditional uh style type of
awning
um but again the details right simple
brackets how you do that make those a
little bit more architectural I think
would be go a long way but an awning
can't define the character of a building
because they're temporary in a way so it
helps your renderings it helps sell your
product a little bit here uh but it
can't be too too
um I don't want to be too deceived by
that look because you know they have a
tendency to not last as long
I think overall it's definitely a much
improved product I think I would love to
see further refinement of those details
being honest with the materials and
using uh you know where you can without
generating a lot of expense into the
changes the brickwork the horizontal
banding and those things uh I think you
could really improve the overall look
um or at least refine the look that I
think you're getting much close so uh I
think overall it's much better and it's
moving it's looking at them I just want
to make it kind of state looking at the
before and after from last meeting it
doesn't until you really look at the
details it doesn't really look that
different but it actually really is
you've done a lot of that cleanup work
that I think in my mind has kind of
improved the overall look of this
particular building
um
that's all I have to say
yeah I think you're getting closer
you're the the name of the game is
refinement like you've heard three or
four times now so uh I think take the
comments that you've heard uh from
various members uh to heart and look you
know look at that brick refinement look
at you know those details
um consider uh
you know removing that metal trim and
fixing your wall that bill was talking
about up above the uh Precast band
um I agree with the awnings I I like the
awnings I'm not a huge fan of the color
so I think you just you know think about
that a little bit more
um I appreciated uh all the work that
you did from the last time because I was
here and I did
um see everything from before and I also
appreciated the fact that you like took
the time to look at the mechanical units
making sure that we weren't going to see
anything
um so
I'm just going to leave it at that and I
also appreciated that you're trying to
think
um about where you're putting all of
those exhaust you know girls and things
like that because
um you know the last thing we want to
see is those peppered all over the place
and then not placed well and you know
you can drive all around Columbus and
see that and they just look horrible so
appreciate that you're trying to conceal
them
um and and work through that so we also
had a suspicion that people might start
making phone calls once the exhaust
fence starts showing up on an elevation
that didn't look like what had been
potentially approved Architectural
Review Board if we really want to be
mindful of that and think about those
conditions now yeah looking at the base
I appreciate that and and and I'm glad
that you're thinking about them sooner
rather than later rather than an
afterthought it's always best to think
about all of those MEP systems and you
know I don't know if you have like
internal drains for the roof or if there
are any you know downspouts things like
that like those are things that we're
going to want to know about as well or
that we're going to want to work through
so if you have all internal drains great
if you have some that are if you have
like you know scuppers or anything
that's
downstairs okay
okay
I might have missed those
dude I'm swimming
what now
we're just having a conversation oh okay
I'm good are you good I'm good I do want
to come back in uh can you explain the
uh how the brick is meeting the ground I
saw in a couple of the renderings that
you catch it and then on this one
elevation it's clearly shown is this on
all locations where brick is meeting the
ground is that the sport vertical
Soldier courses desired yet currently
they're the previous uh previous version
as well yeah no I just want it's it's it
shows up in some of the perspective
views and I was curious if it's
everywhere if it's uncertain only
certain moments it's just on Cassidy I
think it's not around it's not in the
back at the ground level
it is it is
already it looks like it is it's
wrapping the north side but then in
other places it's not clear it could be
the rendering I'm looking at in large
partial elevations East and North
facades
and I see it on the
one and not on the other
or partial sorry that's why that's why
I'm asking and then while we're looking
at that East facade uh to the right
there's a yeah that shows it what is can
you explain the banding that's happening
above
on the left side of that image with
those three Soldier courses in Banning
on certain projecting elements we do
that at the
um like that portion that or also the
front entrance on Cassidy so it just has
that to kind of accentuate that
um
so that she has her mouth on this too
essentially if not to over generalize we
either have the four Soldier courses at
the areas that have storefront or it
kind of jumps up as items
protrude from that but
Richard from the area that's adjacent to
them and then
over maybe over generalizing the
movement you have minor exceptions to
that role but that's the change
thanks uh I think if you look at the
revised elevation design sheet
if you look at the overall four of them
you can see where that band is higher
on certain parts
I think again I think what you're
probably getting at I'm not going to
speak for you but I think what I'm
hearing is that you know this goes along
with the refinement right where are you
having
stuff above where are you having the
brick banding down at the base is it all
consistent around at the base is it not
you know this this goes to that
refinement of the details yeah I feel
like that that I get the Banning of the
base and I'm supportive that I think
that having to have a building Instagram
is really important right so I'm looking
I'm a little curious at the if you go to
the revised elevation sheet there's
there's the abandoning above the
gentleman in front of the window uh and
then the elevation above that it's it's
um it's in the at the entry point uh but
below the Limestone cap and then on the
south elevation the bottom right image
on that to the right there
it's kind of just floating on a is that
a fairly flat facade there on the South
Side so that's just this kind of band
that's popping sticking out and then
stops at the low Square window it seems
a little strange yeah it's it's in some
ways a version of what Mr hire was
speaking of in terms of time it is
horizontally and I think you're getting
a shadow line so it's really articulate
a little bit longer but it still seems
kind of a if you're trying to pick up
maybe the proportion of the roof
changing above maybe you know or if
there was a step in that facade I might
buy that but I I feel like that's that's
kind of a rogue element at least on that
facade it's a little bit of a real
villain
anything else well
um I I have not moved very far from
where I was at the last meeting I think
you have 15 different ideas going on
here about how you treat Windows how you
treat brick
um I don't like if you just go to the
East Elevation
um where on the revised and just hone in
on the the bump out oh okay the dark
area and the windows
so I don't understand why you have so
many different window designs like why
have the panel in between the two
windows rather than just having two
windows disconnect
um it looks like you're one that opens
one that does not I get that that you
know maybe you need to have some that
don't open but why don't they look the
same like
it it just feels like I don't I can't
figure out if you're trying to do any
kind of traditional building I can't
figure out if it's supposed to be
contemporary
um I just still don't know what this is
the bump outs all really bother me
because they feel like they're just
stuck on the building uh like I said the
window design really bothers me the
treatment of somehow uh of how some of
them get panels between of them between
them from one floor to the other some
don't some get a band
I just feel like there's 15 different
designs going on with this building and
when I was asking you to simplify I was
asking you to simplify the overall
building and then detail it really well
so
I just don't get all this that is still
going on I I feel like we've been asking
for a more simpler building with amazing
details and we uh we all understand
budget but you've got brick on the
building I just don't understand you
know every time the building goes in and
out isn't that a corner that you have to
flash doesn't that cost more money every
time the building goes in and out those
bump outs for what they get you in
square footage aren't they just problems
down the road that
that are you know going to leak and have
wear issues and all that I I feel like
I've been asking for a more simple
building
so um I can speak to some of the
reasoning behind the bump outs our
funding source has strict guidelines on
minimum unit sizes and based on Market
as well we have to look at what unit
sizes are and so the floor plans for an
efficient building for us it's more
efficient to have the bump outs than it
is to have a square building
to comply with our federal guidelines or
our state and federal guidelines for
unit sizes
um and so that's what drives some of the
protrusions on the upper levels or the
units are located so
I mean honestly that's kind of what it
looks like to me it looks like you had
to do it and so you stuck a few bump
outs on the building in order to hit the
square footage but that's exactly what
it looks like and I don't think the
building should look like that I think
it should be more graceful but in
thinking about budget
you know if we make larger units then it
drives building square footage which
drives cost not only for us but also for
residents that potentially have to heat
the units and cool the units and the
units are sized well above what is the
minimum requirements but we want to make
sure that they're usable units and
places where people can actually have a
living room and a bedroom and have their
furniture and move around and so
it's a delicate balance in any project
that a developer and an architect have
to work together on because you do have
to think about budget and
um this is how we have been able to come
up with a design that serves the
residents in terms of who's going to
live here having a unit that they can
live in that is functional but also
something that we can afford
to build without having a lot of excess
square footage so have you built other
buildings like this with the bump outs
do you have images that you can show us
what they look like years down the road
yes
I would ask to see those I mean if
you've built a building like this that
would be a huge amount of information
that would really help us
to know
what these drawings really turn into
once they get built
things we can share it as well yeah
we've shared them in previous examples
too of work
we can also address a little bit of your
window question
um
there is some variety between
essentially on those primary elevations
between living room windows and bedroom
windows in size
we uh are complying with your zoning
code which requires a certain minimum
percentage of placing on the upper story
so
whereas in in another project we might
try and make those more consistent we've
concentrated that additional glazing in
living areas we think that'll actually
make a very wonderful living space and
because you're in a living space you
don't necessarily see one next to
another but at the same time
that we don't necessarily feel the four
bedroom is appropriate to have quite as
large of a window opening where you're
looking for privacy and looking for
places to fit Furniture so it does on
those primary elevations on the street
create some inconsistency in Windows
size but it does get us to
to that minimum glazing area but you're
saying where where you see the large
window that has no uh Center million to
it that's a living room and then the one
next to it is a bedroom the basement
bedrooms in this View and the living
Living Spaces are those spaces in
between okay and so my point is that
even within the living room you've got
one that has a million through the
middle that's skinny and one that
doesn't have a mind through the middle
that's that's that's fatter and I don't
understand why that doesn't just read
like one big window like
again it feels like you're trying to be
contemporary with your window design
but I don't feel like this is a
contemporary building
so I I'm still really struggling I guess
with your proposal I think things like
the awnings definitely add some
character to it and
um you know I like some of the details
that you're putting up the brick you
know in the uh for the base of the
building and things like that but
overall
I just can't get behind this design and
you know like I know that this building
will be here for at least the next 50 60
years and
um I would like to be proud to say that
that we helped you know this project you
know get built in in Bexley and I I
don't think I'll drive by this and feel
proud about it at all and that
that bothers me so
can I ask um in terms of cost you know
and the windows I was just thinking you
know you could eliminate this couldn't
you inhabit a mold two windows that are
mold
and then you wouldn't have to finish out
on the inside and you wouldn't have to
put a board on the outside those windows
get to the Limit where it really
the wind load pressure at that larger
opening that we do need to meet that
glazing requirement
breaking it into or combining them into
a single one that requires some
reinforcement and is one of those things
in the mole in the in the mole that's
right and that's more expensive than
putting up the Hardy Board be on yeah
we've been through that exercise on a
number of projects in different ways and
that's that's certainly I mean from a
design point of view right it's just a
feedback and that
that's surprising to me because it's an
easy
you know you order the window you put
one window in you're not putting you
don't have to frame to put two windows
in you're just putting one in that
doesn't make sense we've we've made that
same argument to contractors and uh
they've uh now you're showing them
you're showing you're showing them all
here or uh you know a board here that's
brick color and then you're showing
here is it going to be this color yes
well that's all I have to add
um
is there any other board member that
wants to
add one last comment
okay seeing nine so it's uh I think the
ball's in your court then you can
you know ask to come back next month you
can ask to have a vote
do whatever you like can I have a minute
thank you
it's worth an hour
I'm going to make an ask just an ask and
say no
um so we've conveyed that we have some
timing sensitivities and um we hear the
feedback we know we're not going to win
everyone but um we would like a chance
to look at some of the the requests that
have been made specifically around the
refinement of the brick and the
elevations and coming back with more
detail around that and really showing
um some thoughtfulness and additional
consideration
I'm I'm seeing this in a public setting
and I'm really nervous to do so but I
was wondering if there's any way we
could maybe potentially talk about a
special meeting to to get together to
look at this
um before the next ARB meeting because
the timing for the next ARB meeting is
causing some concern for us when it
relates to timing for us to continue to
move forward in other aspects of the
project so I do not expect a response
back you guys can I know this is a big
ask but we're just wondering if there's
any way we can work collaboratively yeah
I think our comment to that would be
that you you would need to submit
substantial
um amount of you know information to us
before we would say yes to that okay so
um I feel like you've been before is
what five or six times now so um I I
actually don't think it's a bad idea
um I think if we did a survey of the
board members and we could come up with
a date which by the way is not easy to
do I know at all I know but to follow
chairman Tony's comments right on like I
would have to have the materials early
enough before a notice is sent out to
determine that there is substantial
um response to the comments and
documentation and examples um which was
a great great ask of other like
buildings that are built so
um I don't think we can give a
determined answer right now but I think
within the next day or two we can do
that we can ask board members that's
already a challenge I know it's an
extenuating I know this is a big ask
we're just we're watching timing and we
are also sensitive that we don't want to
make a request for a vote right when
there's a lot of conditions that would
be listed if we were to ask for a vote
for conditions I do want to point out
that this is a fairly late meeting in
January and February's is fairly early
so we don't have a lot of time between
now and then to we have to send out a
notice
what Kathy two weeks before two weeks
prior unless we can table this to a
certain date
um and then I've gotta make sure that
the rooms available
you know the zoning board is going to be
here on the 26th starting at six I don't
know if you want to consider doing a
meeting at five prior to that but that
might that'd just be a big headache
um on this point I would
like to convey that I believe this is a
project that's important to the city
and if our uh all the comments are very
valid and important and we do want a
great project at the end
but if we can accommodate a faster
schedule I believe it's important that
we do that because
if what I'm hearing is delays could
jeopardize the project completely I
don't think that's our intent and I
don't want to inadvertently Scuttle
something that's important to the
community what we want to do with
conceptual approval with design details
to return to the board
we don't see a vote as an end-all be-all
we recognize that there is more that is
to be done
um and we welcome
the chance to continue to work with the
board and with members and with staff
um and so by no means
is
do we feel that walking out today next
month whenever
means that we're finished with any sort
of collaboration with with the city on
this building and we recognize that
there will probably be more
collaboration down the road
before we start construction well maybe
your best option then is to table it and
come back next month with a lot of
amazing information and then we can be
done with it
what I'm hearing is tabling until next
month jeopardizes the ability for the
project to move forward project yeah
yeah so my request is that
we leave open the possibility that we
can get together in the next couple your
funding needs us to have an approval we
so we cannot proceed so like we've
mentioned we've been working on
construction documents we cannot proceed
with submitting for building permits we
cannot proceed with moving forward with
environmental review and environmental
cleanup documents we cannot we're kind
of at a standstill right now because we
are not able to finish documentation
that we need to have to submit to our
partners I shared that we have a buster
process the site has contamination it's
known it's publicly known we have
identified the contamination but we
cannot take the next steps to actually
put together the plan in order to
address the contamination I don't know
how much it's going to cost me
to remove dirt on this site because I
don't have
final construction drawings to be able
to give to my vendor to look at to
inform where you know where spaces are
how materiality is
my vendor needs that that information in
order to finish their report so we can
actually submit the documentation to the
state to get moving forward on it they
need to understand the whole building
and they need to understand you know
are the windows where the windows need
to be are the doors where the doors need
to be is the venting and all of all of
that where we're actually proposing it
to fall
it is it also critical to know that
we have an approval to also get the
grant money
that's available yes early on then
losing it to other people that also put
in for these Grant funds yes so I
understand that perspective as well yes
so I'm looking at the calendar and it
looks like with the two-week notice
process the earliest that you could be
heard would be the 26th
which is bizap's meeting data
um Kathy and I will have to survey
the board members and coordinate a room
but basically it leaves us between the
26th and the 9th we have to give notice
again two week notice if we table to a
date certainly I thought we didn't have
to be yeah we have to sit here right now
and figure it out and I feel like we are
really not being fair to the rest no no
and that's why I know this isn't this
isn't
and I can also step out and look at
other dates too
I mean I guess we could
can we we could can we recess this case
is that the end of the meeting and then
they told him
I gotta call my husband but yeah I can
do that
um
unless we have a break and we have some
options that we can throw it it's up to
the board members I can stay
if somebody can stay yeah we can look at
the calendars but I'm feeling really bad
about it being seven o'clock and we have
11 more cases to here so I would say
that we is it is the right term recess
this case until the Third
till the end of the meeting I don't know
what oh you want to revisit this at the
end of the meeting if we know if we
decide on a date tonight we can
we can not have to notice it
we still probably would just out of
abundance of caution but at least
so you want to defer an action on this
agenda item until the end of the meeting
yes
until later we might take a break and
everybody can come up with a date but I
don't know
I mean because we if we can determine a
date certain then we can announce that
okay so let's
push you back until the end of the
meeting and we will figure out what date
we can all put on the calendars and
encount that public notice for it so
that we can get back hopefully in the
next couple weeks thank you and again I
guess I would say that in within the
next couple weeks when you come to that
next meeting we are looking for
substantial amount of information
so yep thank you
okay so we will put that one on hold
so let's go to the next uh item of old
business it's application number B's app
22-43 the address is 157 North Ardmore
the applicant is Amy lauerhouse the
owner is Kyle and Ali Upchurch
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness to expand to one story
to a one and a half story house this
application was approved by the board of
zoning and planning and has been
remanded back to the ARB for final
design approval
okay um just by way of a reminder this
case was
um
recommended to be zap with the request
that it be remanded back here because it
had a lot it's an interesting case it's
uh
um here's the new design
um there were some details that the
board was uncomfortable with so Amy's
redone some of the details and did them
in time to go to bzap so um there was an
approval full approval of b-zap in terms
of the zoning with respecting the remain
back to to us
um really the the only kind of comments
that I have and I've heard from a couple
of board members through feedback as
just to kind of discuss a little bit the
Dormers
um on the North elevation and the
question of you know not connecting them
and making more of a
smooth transition and more space
actually too for the residents but I'm
going to go ahead and let you talk about
the changes that you've made
um
at the request of ARB
please state your name Amy Lara house
you solemnly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth I do thank you
uh yes so when we met last month there
were some items that the board requested
that I looked at so like Karen said I
did make those changes to present to the
board of zoning the changes that I made
were on the west elevation or adding the
new roof to that sun room piece and I
lowered that roof just a little bit so
that it tucks under the higher roof and
that's really a just a detail thing in
how we can Flash it and make it
everything watertight
the stone uh if you look at the original
on the top it went all the way straight
across and so we talked about just
varying well about potentially raising
the stone and if you can scroll to us we
can see both of those together so I did
raise the stone on the addition but then
at the same time I lowered it on the
other part of the house because we had
talked about trying
to accentuate the linear nature of the
of the house
and then the last thing of course the
most obvious thing is the Dormers and
I've looked at doing them in a shed
configuration instead of a Gable
configuration and Karen if you scroll
down a little nope other way sorry so we
can see you can see both on the front
how that looks but also on the west
elevations how those Dormers look from
the side as well which is
going to be more visible from the
Ardmore side
okay uh a board member that wants to go
first
I only had one question and that was
whether you considered um on those shed
the West I'm sorry the north elevation
and start with that
the Dormers could you consider
continuous
former like I think someone mentioned is
that not workable it is workable
um
the upside is you get more volume on the
inside the downside is structurally it's
a little more expensive to do it that
way
um but I think uh certainly we could
look at the cost of that and see if my
client would be amenable to that because
they it you do get more volume on the
inside if you connect them
and that's part of me thinks it's a good
idea that I am also looking at the scale
of
the the front door area you know and
it's a little more delicate right a
really big
Dormer might be I don't know maybe it's
not a good idea that that was my only
concern is that it would just be a
little bit too heavy for the upper part
of the structure yep I can see that okay
thank you
Justin
um I am fine with everything that you
changed uh and I'm excited for the
Neighbors up the street so that's it
Mr Scott
you're
change of your
Stone water table like a better word
on a overall flat facade
happens right past the door is that
you're hiding it behind a column in the
drawing you're not hiding anything
there's a transition at the right side
of the door on the
new elevation
or as you go all the way across the
porch
you can use them in on the porch yes
that's a good question well yeah it
looks yeah it looks like it it sounds
just past the door so
um the the column
I guess that we could go either way
um
I think it would be strange to jog right
past the door yes I agree I think it
should be on the right column that it
should stop on the right column and
especially if you maybe put a pilaster
or something against the building yeah
and I I think I am too because I think
that's also a flat side it drops down
but it's also flat past that window
right yeah we do have columns on the
facade okay yeah that'll give you the
opportunity to stop this yep that's what
I would make sure I would continue to do
because I think it looks like it stops
just past the door yeah yeah I think
it's not a what you want to do
um
the higher Stone
um on the left of the door right here
see where does this there's the stone
yeah and then it goes down there it
wants to go I think it's just a weird
spot to drop it so that it wants to
continue the higher water table of stone
continues to the to the end of the porch
West End of the porch yes correct and
she stated that there's a pie luster
that's against the house that won't stop
that stuff yeah okay is that that's
appropriate or not I don't know
go ahead
I just don't think it works there uh can
you then Zoom back out so I think these
the uh revised side elevation where the
the Dormers are uh a lower slope pitch
is appropriate uh it feels much better
on that elevation the scale is it feels
their little little rough or not rough
little
oversized in the elevation on the bottom
left
um
but I think that's just a nature of the
wind width of the windows
I'm not a huge fan of the two over three
but I think we talked about that last
time yeah
um
so I think you know anything that you
can kind of look at the details of how
that overhangs on those Dormers I
wouldn't think they'll flush of course
but
um but other than that I think it's it's
definitely going in the right direction
I think it's a big improvement from the
last time thank you in the details
on an easy composition it's a tricky one
yeah
Mr hire I I mean I like the design I'm
I'm all about the details of course and
um I'd love for you to work out some
special detail for these guys instead of
just making a shorter one by
so we're
that there's a porch there already if we
go to the photos and we're just
extending the porch That's there right
so all the details that are already
there are just being repeated on the
right side but you're not you're not
doing that for the roof no the roof's
new right yes yes so I thought you were
talking about the column I am so if
you're redoing all of this and you're
putting a new beam in why can't you
rework those to make them nicer yeah we
could
and I I would argue I would argue
against having
I would argue against having that stone
this High because it because on a small
Forge it's going to take up more than
you know it's almost half of the
vertical
and so I would I would stop it and I
would I would keep it low in in here I
would just wherever take it doesn't
really matter just take it up to the
um take it up to the sill of the door
that's that's I don't I don't disagree
with Mr Hunter but I think the challenge
is all flat facade so it's ending it
anywhere in there just seems odd I think
as you're approaching the doors you're
coming up on the porch it would to me it
would look odd to have it high on the
left and low on the right
oh because you can't remove this right
well
there no it would be to the column but I
still think it it would look odd and
look I I think we should take it to the
right side
I understand yeah
but it's because you can't remove it
here right correct that's all existing
yes
um my other question about this roof is
this is a great bungle design but we're
not looking at it in 3D is this going to
have when this rake comes down is the
soffit just coming flush to the bottom
of that rake
yes okay because in a bungalow design
you would see the rafters and then you
would have a vertical of siding above
this band right yeah so you have
leftover space right but if you're
taking it right to that point yeah you
gotta hit that right it's got to hit
above that molding right oh I know
otherwise it looks like a mistake
um so yeah I mean those things and then
in your elevations this lines up but in
the elevation on the side they do not
this looks like a a bigger fascia uh on
the side elevation than this one you can
see here that they're different heights
uh if you zoom in on that you'll see I
don't know maybe it's just a cad thing
but you can work that out yeah yeah I
have no issue with that but I you know I
would take the opportunity to make this
a nicer set of okay you know capitals
um just to clean it up because I think
the design is great overall and that
would just be the icing on the cake yeah
thank you we can do that yeah
we're having fun with these capsules
I feel a theme coming on
okay so my only comment is on the south
elevation it looks like you're removing
a window
and I would ask that you not remove the
window
it looks like you're removing the window
in the laundry room so oh no that
um that window is actually not there the
reason I have it dashed is because we
want to add the window but there's an
electrical meter there so we're just
we're trying to figure out the
contractor whether we can move the
electrical meter enough to put the
window in okay yeah so you are hoping to
put that window yeah that's the whole we
want to put the window in okay but and
then did you consider making the Dormer
span both of those windows because it
seems like it would fix like some ins
and outs up in the master bathroom and
make it a little bit bigger
again it goes back to budget and the the
cost of expanding those Dormers and how
you have to support a shed Dormer once
it gets to a certain width is it it just
gets more complicated yes
I thought it would make the design nicer
but I I get your budget so that's all I
have I I am going to go on record to say
we are going to be moving further and
further into the requirements of having
notes on elevations oh yes yes I I have
been doing that this this one backwards
uh but it's going to become a point
where we're going to stop gotcha right
and I don't want to do that to you so
yes it doesn't have to be overly done we
just need to have on your drawings what
you're doing
um and we would much appreciate that so
okay is there a board member that will
make a motion I'm assuming you want us
to vote him yes please
oh I'm sorry is there anyone in the
audience that has a lots of comment
about this project
saying no one
still moved
exactly
are there any conditions of this you
want me to read the findings
finding is a backing decision of the
board for application number
bzap-22-43 property located at 157 North
Ardmore the architecture review board
finds that the expanded one story to a
one and a half story in porch expansion
on the North elevation of the property
located at 157 North Ardmore
is appropriate and would recommend a
certificate of appropriateness with the
following conditions that the stonewater
table
on the North elevation continue to the
West End of the porch
and that the applicant additionally
worked with the design consultant on
design details
you understand the findings the facts
that they're red I do
okay so now we will go to
you made the motion I made the motion so
moved a second
I will call the roll
Mr higher yes Ms Strasser yes Miss
kraske yes Mr Scott yes Madam Tony yes
thank you thank you approved
um just a technical request I forgot to
say it at the beginning of the meeting
if you when you make a motion or a
second could you say your name please
because our minutes person doesn't know
the difference between Houston yeah
thank you yeah and a lot of times in the
video what we're looking at when we're
watching is still the drawings when the
comments are being made oh yeah because
we don't have a camera right so it would
be helpful to um when we're making
comments too I mean you do you announce
who's going to be talking but yeah
that's I noticed that when I was
watching it yeah it's particularly hard
though for the emotions okay sorry
okay the next application I believe we
are into Noob yes
and then a bunch of them were consent so
I think we're at number six right
application ARB 22-65.
address is 110 South Stanwood the
applicant is Valerie Palace the owner is
Nathan render and Kyle Bender uh the
applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval of a certificate of
a preppiness for a two-story addition to
the rear of the house
all right we'll get some background
yes okay this applicant actually was
before us a long time ago but I don't
even I think it's been way past
um so we're just gonna this is a new
application completely new application
um they're asking there's a lot to talk
about here
um there it the applicant is asking for
an addition
um
to a new garage
um which we're going to talk about
separately because we separated those
applications so that they could go ahead
and get going on this approval and then
take the other one to be zap separately
so just just to avoid confusion of why
we did that I just wanted to put that
out there so we're not talking about the
garage first first we're talking about
the addition to the to the rear of the
house a two-story addition to the rear
of the house
um
I can pull up
value when you come up I'll pull up
whatever drawings you want there's a lot
um but I want to keep I want to put out
there first of all that in addition to
looking at this addition which I think
is very nice and massing
um I think we should talk through some
of the material choices and
um and changes
um and a particularly I I had forgotten
about this part of it but in my
conversation with Valerie today it's
super important we have a slate roof
request for replacement as well so
there's a lot of documentation here
there's um a good documentation and
pictures on the Slate
um we can do that before or after or at
the same time but there is
um just so you know that I think you've
all seen it but there's a there's
pictures of the proposed shingles
there's a um letter from Precision slate
and title who I have I actually have a
lot of faith in because they do my own
personal slate work
um but we we can talk about whatever
issues you'd like first
um
do you want to come on up and be sworn
in well wait till Kathy although I can
swear you in
she'll do it
you swear
I was giving I can but I forgot my word
please state your name Valerie Alice you
solemnly swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth I do thank you
okay can you give us a presentation of
your project
sure
um yeah so this is um you're looking at
um a two-story Edition
um off the rear of the back of the house
um it has a proposed patio and then a
new two-car garage
um so we're increasing the square
footage of the house
um adding on
enlarging a kitchen adding a mudroom
family room master bathroom master
bedroom
to the second floor
anything else
okay is there a board member that would
like to go first
I'll go first okay
um I
overall I'm really pleased with it my
one concern is that seems to be an awful
lot of vinyl siding and it's not a great
material
um I understand it's necessary for
most Editions
I I feel uncomfortable with just all
that vinyl and not losing all the stucco
to me is not necessarily a good thing
I understand the consistency but it
for me that's a problem the volume
that's all I am
Mr higher
I would agree with that
um the existing house the eaves that are
there and the uh rakes they look like
they're aluminum
and are those going to remain yes
so
okay I believe so I just don't think
that that's an aesthetic that you should
be matching
because they look they look like they're
covering something that was much nicer
before this was before it had the
aluminum put on is there a way to you
know do some kind you know have you
uncovered what that original detail is
that's underneath you know what it looks
like is there a I don't not yet I think
it's important because you know the the
character of this house as it is
visually now
um is not the original character of the
house I understand that character
changes but
what's What's Happening Here is uh we
have basically a skin that's been put
over a lot of the details that are that
give the building character so I'm
concerned that we're trying to match
something that's not really
that doesn't have architectural
character with the vinyl or we will deal
in the other aluminum leaves and things
in your in your 3D renderings you're
also showing it a little differently
than what's existing
um so it's important that you work with
a design consultant on some kind of
solution to this problem you know is it
is there a way to even with aluminum to
do something that has a nicer cleaner
you know profile and return
um than what we're seeing either in your
model or in these elevations are you
know the photographs of the house that's
a tricky issue
um but I think it's worth pursuing
because
everything we look at in Bexley we're
trying to increase the character
um obviously within budget but what can
we do with the budget to help increase
that character not simply uh maintain
the status quo in a lot of houses
they've been you know for the lack of
better term straight jacketed with vinyl
and with aluminum over the years and
they hide all those wonderful Bexley
details
my other concern is that you are simply
extending the addition blush with the
existing house and so you lose the
character of The Return of the main
block of the house
and I see and plan and you're opening up
the dining room and I understand the
issue there but to me
um this is a very important massing
detail and there's ways to you know
offset it by eight inches or a foot that
you could still do even though the
dining room would have this jog we've
done it in the past where we masked it
with a built-in so on the one side of
the built-in in the new edition it's a
lesser extension and it's a bigger
extension on the existing side but
nobody sees that you just see a
beautiful building
from in terms of the way that we
um the way the way the Bexley way of
doing additions is to make sure that
that addition looks like is attached to
an existing house and that house is
revealed as much as possible so when
your cat elevation side South elevation
of house and garage
there's a couple of lines there that I
don't quite understand it looks like I
think that's just like a PDF issue okay
so that's the elevation where I would
definitely want to see the separation
and to have that leave condition be
continuous CAD is also not showing the
eaves as there as they exist the model
gets a little closer but those details
are really important it's just part of
the character and Nike I harp on that
every meeting about trying to maintain
character and we've had houses that
we've talked about this in the meeting
and then they go and get built they
don't they don't do it so um it's a pet
peeve of mine and I'd like to make sure
that we do them right also you're doing
I don't know does the existing house
have wraparound surrounds on all the
windows or uh do they have uh Sills it
looks like again it has wraparounds it
is wraparounds and those are vinyl
windows correct
so
I mean at my house when I when we did
our audition we we did the better
details on the Edition we know that the
existing house has aluminum that is over
or replaced you know just as a
wraparound or whatever but can we can we
step up the details is there any way to
step them up to do something that looks
more in you know keeping with the the
character of The Original House
it's something that I think could be
worked out instead of saying well the
existing has a wrap around so we're just
going to do that here because that's not
what we like to see we don't like to see
wrap around frames or exterior windows
on a traditional house like this
those were my really those are my big
concerns is details and sort of the
philosophy of how you're going to make
them better to elevate the design of the
house even if it's just on the addition
okay
awesome
um yeah so uh I don't really I like the
massing of the Edition things like
that's all fine
um I think and I'm glad you provided the
3D views so I don't know if you want to
shift to that
um that are rendered because I I
definitely have concerns about the
materials and the application of the
materials
um and so this is helpful because I feel
like it's a little discombobulated it's
like you're going Farmhouse with like
the vinyl and then the vertical which
I'm not I don't I don't know and then
all of a sudden you're like integrating
this you know nice modern nishiha type
product so it seems just discombobulated
and then you're you know framing
everything and you're putting you know
pieces at every corner
um I think you need to holistically look
at what products you're putting on there
and
um you know you're letting that stone
just stop you know perhaps that needs to
wrap around the exit like or you know
can you match it I don't know maybe you
can't but
um the yellow the exterior materials are
just for me they're too discombobulated
it just doesn't it's not making sense
um but I think you have some you know
that like that nichiha product I I think
it's a really nice product I don't know
if it's very expensive and maybe that's
why you're limiting it but
um it's more it is a higher price point
than um so we've gone through extensive
pricing and Analysis and that's kind of
why we're at the vinyl siding
um okay um this project we investigated
um having more stucco and it was just
cost prohibitive okay
um so we have done a lot of
Investigation okay very hard yeah
um so then I think you just need to
because again you have like this modern
thing going on but then all of a sudden
it's like Farmhouse and I don't know if
really Farmhouse look is what is here in
town
um I can't really find examples of it
when I drive around or when I look at
the design standards so uh I I think you
need to Center some time on the look the
whole exterior look and making it a
little bit more cohesive
and on the part about the stucco being
more expensive I'm not saying stucco is
the only solution
but
if you want to do the project
you have to
do it right and it if that's cost
prohibitive then
scale back something else but just
because you don't want to spend the
money there the money is being spent
it's being spent on the interior or the
exterior
and it's hard for me to say when you're
doing a project of the scale that the
exterior is less important and we're not
going to spend money on that so I'm not
terribly sympathetic to saying well that
that material is more expensive
just got
let me go to the photographs of the
front
so uh
first of all I'm going to zoom in on the
front door right there front door uh
later bottom right one
so it looks like you're removing the uh
all the detail of the pediment at the
front door yeah that was like an added
detail probably in like the 90s
screwed on there yeah um it's actually
in really bad shape you're also removing
the uh
in metal railing above the fly roof yes
um that it's it's in
um Dire Straits and like client wasn't
um a fan of it so
looking at the elevation of the
treatment to go through the and maybe
it's a placeholder I'm hoping it's a
placeholder you have this kind of
industrial pipe rail look of the railing
uh I I think that the new the new
building has lost all character of a
front
take the front of the house in Bexley
the doors really feels like a side door
uh the railing I know the orientation of
the steps is the way it is based on the
driveway
uh yeah we haven't touched the steps so
I I just I feel like it's it's just lost
any sort of character and then are you
is the plan
you're going to remove the trim around
the door that's falling apart but leave
the extent of the existing Stone correct
so I think that it's just in in reality
it's gonna be wider than what you're
showing again which is fine I I was
worried you were going to kind of try to
patch some stone in there that's not not
gonna happen good idea
um so I'm kind of concerned I guess
overall I mean I I agree with a lot of
people agree with a lot that's been said
tonight but
I feel like the front doors is like an
afterthought right you're removing some
of the the things that good or badge
shape are added on that didn't apply
really architecturally to the the
original style of the house and we and
as some others have to mentioned you
know this this aluminum cladding that's
covered over what I'm assuming was all
wood siding at some point that was hard
to maintain uh which could be beautiful
we just don't know it's under the siding
um
I just feel like it's just there's
there's no more sense of Entry there's
no more sense of like specialness and
and basically there's all sorts of
celebration of specialness it can be a
simple you know by Pawn added or
whatever this is uh wrong or not but
there's now it's stripped of all of that
and I feel like that's a mistake I feel
like there's there needs to be something
there that says you know hi this is our
house or something uh and I'm sure if
it's a you know if it's a something
that's covering if it's a different trim
work or uh you know we don't know what's
you're also showing Stone above your
door but what we're seeing is not maybe
through there might not be Stone there
so you may actually have to it is it's
behind the it's behind the stone it is
behind me yeah you can see that they
added that little right over the stone
right over there wonderful
uh so you know I you'd like it or not it
still calls out the door here in a
hierarchy style wise probably not
appropriate but so when it goes back to
just the regular door again I think in
the sun is supposed to be simple I don't
think there must be a lot of detail but
I think it's I feel like it's kind of
being ignored I think the the added
kind of modern band of the nichiha again
Nietzsche has extremely expensive fail
to get it into most of my projects I
usually gets a V8 so I'm glad it's I'm
hearing and I think that that gives some
Modern take to that which I think is you
know maybe an interesting
clear but I think it's uh as Miss
Johnson said it seems a little bit
too far like you have a farmhouse and
they have these kind of modern elements
so
I get bringing you to the front starts
to tie that addition modern Edition
together but uh I feel like it's the
front door's been lost so I'm really you
know I think I could get by with all of
that other stuff if there was just a
little bit more specialness put to the
front door
you know just the small moment this is
this is my house
foreign
okay
um so I agree
um a lot with what Mr Scott just said to
me you're taking a house and you're
stripping all the character off of it
and I understand it hasn't been
maintained well over the years but to to
break it down and make it all much more
cleanlined and contemporary but have it
all be covered in vinyl siding I don't
think that the quality of materials
becomes really important when you do
really clean contemporary things and so
um when there aren't other things to
look at all the lines in your vinyl
siding where they meet and things like
that become
um you know very obvious so
um I I I think you need to go back to
the drawing board a little bit and
figure out how you can keep some of the
character into this and maybe uh upgrade
some of the quality of materials
okay would you like to be uh would you
like to go to a vote would you like to
go to next month
um
let's go to next month let me ask one
more question is there anyone in the
audience that wants to speak about this
application
sure
yes yes come forward and do it we'll
swear you in yes yes they state your
name uh Nathan render if you saw my
swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is thank you
thank you thank you
um I just want to add that there is a
sister house down the block it has the
original siding on it I don't think it
looks any more appealing than our house
does currently
um and it isn't super well maintained
either
um it has the same design details that
you can see underneath and it's not any
different than what's in the design
um we would love to do uh uh the fancier
siding call
um I know the um
um but it is 35 000 more expensive on a
project that's already four hundred and
forty thousand dollars so it's really
the difference between us doing the
project and not so I understand the
concerns but we're trying to make it
work
um and
um you know improve the housing stock
and Baxley be able to stay in Baxley pay
more taxes and back slate
um so I just wanted to add that in that
you know we're willing obviously
um but I think with the warden Batten
and kind of trying we're trying our best
though like I too would like that at the
same time we there there is nowhere else
to cut in order to do the project
effectively and we've gotten a lot we've
explored a lot of options and there's
not much else there so I would just put
that out there as you know I think that
Valerie's done an amazing job of doing I
I don't think the house is stripped of
all character
um and
um it's just not very functional as is
and the other option is that we would
just continue the white siding as is to
match what's there so we're trying to
make it more visually interesting
um by adding those you know different
types of siding and whatnot so just
wanted to add in from a budget
perspective that it makes it uh we we
won't be able to do the project which I
think would be a shame
so may I respond to that yes
um I totally get it I listen to this all
day long every single day
um and I think that the reason that so
many board members have focused on the
vinyl is that that's what they're that's
what they're seeing I I think talking
about I I mean I could go back and
reiterate what pieces and parts from
every board member but if you make some
turns on the walls that gives you Shadow
lines maybe you want to look at taking
some Stone around just a water table to
break it up a little I don't think and
you guys can correct me if I'm wrong we
don't have a moratorium on vinyl we
understand and it's it's just it's just
not the way it is I don't think it's a
matter of vinyl or no vinyl it's about
the details the the returns the window
casings the um breaking up the vinyl by
either stepping in the facade or putting
a I mean I these aren't this is not real
Stone I mean you can you know I can tell
but you could you could put it around
you know a water table
um I I I'm not I'm not going to be able
to solve the problem here for you I
think you have a plus in this project in
that you're massing is is right on I
think you need to look at the details
and I I don't want I what I don't want
you to take away because it's not like
me to like insert more I usually just
give my staff report them talk but I
don't want you walking away with the
feeling like you have to do Hardy plank
or brick or stucco or you're dead in the
water because it's just not the way it
is here some people like it to be I
can't argue that I mean there are times
I'd like the moratorium on vinyl but
there's not so I just want you to know
that it's it's about finding and
Valerie's getting very good at working
with us and the board and I have
confidence that with more due diligence
and really looking at Creative Solutions
you can stay within a reasonable budget
and not have to go like full-on party
Plank and you know I just I don't want
you to be discouraged appreciate that
and I don't think I mean we but also
with offsetting it on that there's just
there's not as much space inside like
it's already actually a pretty narrow
dining room so that might not be the
answer but are right yeah challenging
for us
looked at every option actually
this step back and it from like an
interior perspective too like it didn't
make it as great of the Interior
environment so you know I do hear those
concerns because you know I had them too
that's what I'm trying to say
okay
so what would you like us to do would
you like to go to next month would you
like to go to a vote what what would you
like to do
that I mean it sounds like a vote would
be you know so yeah and unless it's more
of a design I think for a project the
size you'd be
um wisely advised to ask for a table
okay and work on it to a certain month
February next one yeah okay it won't put
you yeah it's the only thing is the
other final approved one was basically
just white vinyl added on to what's
existing there so I don't know how that
influences we can meet we can talk in
between and I can help you you know
explore some options yeah of course
I just want to get on record too I think
uh since I hadn't heard anybody's talk
about it I have no objection to the
slight roof based on the report okay and
the existing conditions as a board
member I don't have any objections I'd
love to see new slate roof
yeah for me what was compelling is in
the report that there has been a
maintenance program going on it's not
that they have abandoned the maintenance
and now we are in this pickle so for me
that's
um that seals the deal yeah I hate to
see it when government yeah so no
objection there I'm glad you wrote that
up I was gonna ask me too
February 9th and can we vote on that
I already made the motion so moved uh
Cross Key
uh seconded higher
I will call the roll
um
Miss croskey yes Mr Strasser yes Mr
Scott yes Mr higher yes Madam Tony yes
okay so we will see you back at the
February time maybe ninth meeting yeah
all right thank you very much thank you
okay yeah I think we need to take a
short break
um Barry two hours yes
six or seven minutes please and we will
be back thank you
um I did send an email
when you ask about availability like at
five or six o'clock is that what you're
doing yeah we can't do anything during
what did you get the 23rd and the 25th
no that I didn't get that who said that
yeah the mayor that's what I asked him
that's what he said
and it is your mail when you're showing
your the red pointer yeah
[Music]
381 South Drexel
yes well are we going to do the second
part of 110 well actually we we
technically need to give a
recommendation or not or you can just
flat out ask for a table without hearing
it for the garage because I think you
should well come on up
in the garage yeah I mean I think that
that garage is going to be totally
dependent material wise on what you do
with the house
so
unless I would just want to table it
until
or have heard and the board cannot these
that can always remand it back to ARB
that's true
because that has a variance involved
with it and it goes to the variance and
then you come back if I need to
well you will need to because because of
the materials but you could go to
actually you could ask to have a
recommendation
for
for you can ask for a recommendation to
go to visap with the with the recommend
with the request the one with the remand
back to this board for exterior
materials and detailing
um I would like to do that
okay so what did you just say I'm sorry
I was trying to figure out where so the
next case is actually the garage for the
project we were just talking about we
need to vote on that right yes and I I
don't know that it's worth having a
whole discussion because it's the same
material discussion right so
um stop I mean can I speak for you too
staff recommendation would be since it
needs a variance and it seems a
reasonable massing
that it that we recommend that it moved
to be Zap for approval on the variants
with the remand back to us for
materials and detailing so moved thank
you all right
Mr hire two seconds
thank you
she agree and you agree with us right I
do agree yes
huge demand sure that sounds good from
my perspective
yeah Mr higher
yes Mr Strasser yes Mr Scott yes Mr
croskey yes Madam Tony yes
okay so we will see you back here next
month okay we'll see you right now
actually see you right now right here
right now
we're just talking about that okay
you've lost it because I thought we just
said we were moving it to the next well
yeah she has now another project so this
one's done yeah new another garage
so the next application number is
bzap22-51 381 South Drexel right
the applicant is
winners Sarah luck the applicant is
taking a recommendation to the board of
zoning and planning for architecture
review and approval in a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish the existing
garage and build a new garage
okay
this um I think this application is
pretty self-explanatory there is a need
for a recommendation to go to bzap for
this new
um garage which is
um we don't need to get into the
variances because that's for Visa but
it's it needs it is closer to the lot
line than allowable which I do think is
an architectural issue because it
imposes on the property next door but
but not as close as the existing garage
is on that property yeah yeah it's so uh
from a staff perspective I would
recommend that this be moved to be Zap
for review and approval
because it's a lot of zoning issues more
than architectural issues
and then to come back here
however you want to do it
I think the board could make a
recommendation
because it it
you know we could we could go through a
lot of architectural discussion right
now
for variances that are going to take a
lot of time to discuss in our our big
ask at bizap so we could just recommend
that it moved to be zap to review the
variances first with the remain back
here you're coming back next month
anyway for the if if the variances are
approved then we'll do the architecture
review and if they're not you'll have
time to re redesign
and to take those variances down
make sense the only thing I'll say about
that is uh I know other projects have
gone to B's app and I I think sometimes
they look at our
our recommendations and so like for this
particular garage to sit two feet off of
the lot line
architecturally I don't see why it needs
to be that close
and so I I guess as you go to bzap I
would like that to be noted
I think
um bizap is even more
strict about that than we even are okay
I just do
is there any other note that the a board
member would like to go with that
application as it goes to Visa or it'll
be okay that it just comes back we can
we can put in the recommendation remand
back and when I give the presentation
from like Kathy does all the
introductions at Beats app but I also
give a summary of what's discussed here
and I can say there there was not a lot
of concern about the height at all right
or even the footprint but there is
concern about the proximity to the to
the lot line I can tell you from working
with bzap all the time that they're
gonna bring they're gonna have a lot of
discussion on that anyway but it but I
can give that in my report yes so that's
what I that's exactly what I would ask
you to do is there any other thing that
any other board member would like them
to address as their or uh yeah okay
I agree
I agree with you well they usually don't
comment on zoning issues and in this
case they're actually improving
improving what the existing situation is
right but this is not actually a zoning
issue this is an architectural issue so
right
it is
the size
so when you can combine that with I
understand you're saying that the
current garage is probably not in that
same line
which is one issue that is expanded
when you change the size of the garage
location where we promise more
architecturally right okay got it
exactly combine the practice Collective
moving risking building
creating a new building that has all
kinds of implications okay got it okay
so we are basically saying then that
this will be remanded to be sap and we
will ask for it to be to come back to us
then one more final
and Karen can express at least some of
our concerns about
where where it's sitting okay I'm gonna
have two comments
for the applicant yeah okay
windows and notes
so uh oh look at that please do the same
thing please add notes to your elevation
yeah I think um originally I didn't
think we were coming today
please add notes and then uh please
consider adding a window somewhere that
um that's facing the fence actually is
facing offense but yes I hear what yours
but I I still concerned about how that's
contribute from the neighbor's yard
political
behind yeah it's not working
yeah and you have a deep life you've got
a fairly deep lot it is a deep lot but
that is um
most of that facade is facing offense
so we didn't want to add Windows to look
at a fence but yeah I hear what yours
that fence could be removed right I mean
somebody could remove that fence we're
good and your neighbor's looking at it
I do too
okay I just want to when we see it again
let's you know oh before you come back
I'll try to drive by it because I didn't
have time for this one but if you're
saying it's really not visible maybe
it's not necessary but what struck me is
that it was not anything going on on
that side yeah I do think it's a smart
idea to have a
about that
yeah
okay so um we need to vote on this
um
well if somebody would like to make the
motion that just go to the Visa where
they remand back to ARB for final design
review I'll make that motion Strasser oh
second higher
we'll call the roll Mr higher yes
Strasser Mr Scott yes Trotsky yes Madam
Tony yes
okay so we could see you back here as
soon as next month
yeah as it goes through a Visa yeah
okay uh the next application is
visap22-486 the address is 2366 Bexley
Park the applicant is Gary Alexander the
owner is Laura s chick the applicant is
Seeking a recommendation to the board of
zoning and planning for Architectural
Review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for
a second floor addition to the rear of
the existing house
hey do you want to just swear please
state your name Gary Alexander You
solemnly swear from The Testament you're
about to give this evening is the truth
I do thank you
okay this application is before us for
an addition to this on a second story
um it it is a I talked to Gary about
this already and I think you know it's a
little awkward to have that cantilever
and it seems very of a bulky addition on
the top of the smaller it's a little out
of character masking wise Gary however
has said you can explain away
why the choices were made so I'm going
to give it to you explain what I also
want to introduce the owner Ryan shook
is here as well
um first of all we are intentionally not
matching the existing okay unlike our
project on the consent agent and unlike
a lot of the projects we bring before
you we are intentionally not matching
existing and here is why at the back
first of all that house is clad and
painted vinyl siding the trim is covered
with aluminum coil stock the back of the
house is actually comprised of two
one-story editions that were
Consolidated at some point the windows
do not match at the back of the house so
when you look at the context at the of
the existing back of the house there is
um there's not a lot of character in the
back of the house the functional
requirements the owners need one
additional reasonably sized bedroom and
bathroom if you look at the floor plate
of the house there's currently one good
sized bedroom in the house the room
below is only 11 feet three inches wide
so if you try to stack your addition on
that room below you end up with a
bedroom that's 11-3 that doesn't work
very well if it's going to be the
owner's primary bedroom and being off
the street is certainly attractive to
put to have the owner's primary bedroom
off the street so the width is is
limiting so that's why we did the
cantilever the cantilever also
reinforces the idea of differentiating
which as I know most you're probably
aware of the secretary interior
standards for working with older
buildings is differentiate the addition
from the building
now you may have questions about the
extent of differentiation but the
cantilever helps us do that the low skin
the low pitch of the roof also helps
differentiate that it also doesn't
overwhelm the height of the original
roof so we also went to a board and
Baton but with a thicker baton profile
on there as well to differentiate that
so we now how do we tie it in well the
double hung windows are about the one
feature that's original on the house
so the double hungs are used in that
particular context the help the entire
house which is now a dark blue close to
Black everything's going to be painted
white
the fascia that you see which has some
nice returns and those returns were
covered in coil stock too but it does
have some nice returns to decide that
fascia is continued across the back to
try to link this with the original house
so we yes we are definitely
um differentiating this from the house I
know there was a you know when Karen and
I talked today she said you're going to
need to explain the bathroom
um in the cantilever and so
um
the bathroom could be shifted with I
think there were some comments earlier
about that the bathroom could be shifted
with one of the closets and the closet
could be put on that outside wall
um and that was discussed there there
were some functional preferences that
were expressed and so that's why it is
on the outside wall
um is there some Plumbing running in in
the cantilever yes but it's not coming
through the wall it comes up through the
floor through the Cabinetry also there's
more insulation as I'm sure you're aware
a lot of remodelings you're forced to
put Plumbing on an outside wall the
solution to that is a double wall works
all the time you get R30 in both walls
sometimes r33 with conventional
fiberglass this has R38 in that floor
and if we foam which we're going to
under the bathroom in seven inches
you'll have r42 we are also heating the
floor so the floor is going to have heat
as well so yeah a good option would be
to flip that bathroom with that one
closet it just doesn't work for
um some of the programmatic issues were
that were discussed so you know that's
why we are where we are today I know
it's a little different than the
approach we take sometimes
thank you
is there a board member that would like
to go first
Mr higher
um Gary so you're saying that the house
is going to be painted
yeah we're not taking we're not we're
not taking that fight there's no plan to
take that vinyl off so you're painting
the vinyl it's already been painted it's
white no we don't know what it is it's
blue it's painted that color that you
see in front you're going to paint it
white
okay
and um because I really like your little
SketchUp model
um
and I have no problem with the
cantilever the design you know
um
you use icing in there and you have no
problem you know insulating I get all
that
um
I guess if you're looking for
something that's contemporary on the old
house
um
it's not really contemporary to me it's
just a little it's just different with
the board and bad I have no issue with
that I'm wondering if you could do some
design detail to the cantilever though
just something you mean on the underside
yeah the underside like just the
underside and I'm not asking you to well
that's I didn't want to say that because
that's more traditional detail but you
know could you for instance have the
whole thing sort of accordion down so
that it had some kind of
detail you know just something that gave
it a little um character
instead of just having a flat you know
roof underneath there like well we had
to do this because we needed to get a
bedroom up there
from underneath where the people you
know I mean it's the backyard I get it
but you know wouldn't it be nice to add
that little detail to it yeah I mean
we're trying to create you know we're
not building a covered patio here that's
right the benefit of this is it provides
a little cover at the door but but yeah
I mean it's only what 30 inches 32
inches that you're cantilevering yeah in
the grand scheme of this project that's
not that's that's nothing so it'd just
be I'd like to see something fun you
know for that come up with some other
some other detail under there
that's all that's all I have
so I'm gonna go can I go this is Pete Mr
Scott
um
yeah I don't think you went far enough
so I I I I think two things they jump
out of me and at first I was like oh we
gotta put brackets so you gotta do this
columns and I moved way away from that
so I'm glad
two things so right now it's a kind of a
more modern form box
sitting and I'm gonna pick on the actual
graphic of the SketchUp model so you can
please dive into the details sitting on
a a non-capped
sided box right so it just in physics of
the the two masses to me the the big
strong base of your new modern box
that's the cantilever I get but it's
sitting in this graphic cleanly on the
top piece of a sided box and I would be
curious to see if if that needs to have
a little bit more either
the corners of that box to be giving
some sort of structural support to that
or a band or some sort of trim that kind
of details that transition a little bit
to give some caps so you're looking for
more more horizontal expression Beyond
on the sides Beyond The Box on your box
itself no I think I I don't know I think
the issue for me is it's the you've
chopped off the roof of the existing
building and you put a box on it and
maybe that's that's it that's the design
as you're presenting it but to me
there's it's the box below isn't
supporting it it's just been shoved into
it so so you want to see you'd like to
see more article population on the box
from the existing below and it could be
a band or just a little bit of something
that's giving a little bit of support
and it and it maybe if it's and again I
think this comes down to the how you
articulate the modern take on this or
the whatever this falls into uh and
maybe it wants to be clean and be just
the piece of trim and I think that's
something that it just needs to be
really paid attention so even if it was
some kind of trim I mean right here yeah
just the the mass below this this
cantilever comes out and has a big
strong War to it or it could be but it's
combined with yeah and I wouldn't want
to see it as a piece of of vinyl trim
right this painted I think it needs to
be something that you really pay
attention to because again I you know to
me it's the combination of of those two
masses and the interest there is okay
with this thing that's kind of
coming out it's bigger than the mess
below but there is this kind of
connection between the two that is
really elegant needs to be thought
through so
um so I just wanted you to focus on that
and then the other
I think this is more of an open
discussion is how you've lined up the
fascias of the upper roof of the
traditional roof and you brought that
band across uh to tie it into the
fascias which I think is right elevation
wise but you made a very strong motion
of connecting those but then
continuing the board and Baton above it
so
to me there's you know I'll be
interested to see what that would look
like if it was one at flat roof only or
if you're going to do this the slope low
slope roof above for shingles if that
was that band connection was not there
I don't know if you've exported that so
I'm really asking if you've explored
that and what's your reasoning is to
kind of tie part of my concern is just
thinking of the material as you know you
can get in 10 foot planes and I didn't
want to just see a a z a z Channel there
so I thought we could hide that with
with the trim we even looked at making
the Gable
um without the board and bad
um but then you have you can turn the
material sideways but it's longer it's
longer than 10 feet so we still have and
it look it looks strange when we drew it
with just one bat so One Baton instead
of a channel when we're trying to run it
so
um I mean we can we can I I thought the
horizontal was helpful in linking this
are you are you is your preference to
get rid of that horizontal connection
where the one that goes oh no I'm
question I'm just asking your thought on
that I'm not okay I'm trying to
understand what you know the purpose is
just trying to I get to hike some
language that's that really strong band
there is is interesting okay so I'm just
kind of trying to dive into your head a
little bit there that's all
I I'm not against that just it's it's
quirky it's a little different uh you
don't usually you don't see that
typically yeah
serial limit unfortunately yep so it's
really driven by materials and the
nature of having this you know flash
that in there yeah
no yes it's grown a lot on me I think
it's different
thank you
Miss Krusty
um I think the suggestions you're
hearing for them are all good uh
definitely with regards to how to deal
with the overhang I wasn't a huge fan of
just that small cantilever with it just
I don't know it makes me think of like
suburban homes with the cantilever and
um so I think like brackets are
something something to like make it look
a little bit more interesting would help
um I would be open to seeing
um or you potentially working with uh
Karen uh on whether or not that
horizontal piece is there or not yeah up
at the top
um I I don't know it feels weird to me
uh that's just like a gut reaction so
perhaps it just needs to be looked at
and maybe you already did but we're
seeing a different version
um well I mean you both commented maybe
there's a way to make it weaker yeah
it's pretty pronounced
yeah
look at it maybe is what what I'm saying
um
and yeah I think I'll leave it at that
[Music]
having the
the board go down on the first floor so
that because it's it's this Edition
right and that's you want it to be that
and I'm wondering why it isn't holding
um the addition
well I wondered what that would be part
of the thinking is the scale of Home
seems to drop as you go to the rear of
the house so you know that's the way
most maybe one exception tonight most
homes developed is they get they get
smaller as you move the backyard so by
changing the material we we break that
that scale so I mean that was that was
so
anything else
um I'll admit I don't love it I knew
YouTube and you know what and I like I
liked it in the elevations but when I
see the 3D
it looks a little bit like a mobile home
that's been put on top of the house and
maybe it won't look like that once it
gets really built because your materials
would be so much different but this
rendering in particular
okay I just think it feels a little
clunky it's the proportions you know the
the sort of container uh container
proportions yes it is yeah that's a
tough one
can I ask what
the new windows what color the new
windows are going to be
these don't say black no no thank you um
you know we we
rendered them it's clear you black is
not and we see that all over
um that's that's a that's a quickly
dying fad
thankfully so I think we'd paint him to
match or not we have him clad to match
the existing yeah white yeah okay sorry
okay is there anyone in the audience
that would like to speak about this
application
no
okay
um would you like to put it to a vote
Trump major breed findings
I'm asking him
it sounds like there's enough support
for the past with the conditions or do
you or do you want us to come back I
mean I'm not that's your call that's
your wow I don't have any conditions
mine words discussions and
yeah recommendation to look at but I
don't have any conditions on this no I
don't stay on the record that I'm
comfortable working with you on final
details right exactly that was I mean
you have a history Traditions not even
that connector detail
connector
no I think it's just um condition that
the applicant work with the design
consultant on final details yeah
with this you know with the suggestions
that some of us have made so
okay
yeah please please
yeah I I have to admit I have a hard
time too
Suzanne
like I said I liked it in the elevations
and then when I saw that I was like oh
no
you know
I'm one opinion
wisdom of the seasoned architects in the
room but
okay so um is there findings in fact
findings in fact a decision of the board
for application number
bzap-22-46 for property located at 2366
Bexley Park the architecture review
board
uh finds that the second board floor
addition to the rear of the house
should uh move they move to recommend to
the bza for the approval of a
certificate of a preppiness with the
condition that the applicant work with
the design consultant on Final design
details discussed in the meeting
do you understand the findings
the board member that will make a motion
so moved crosskey nice second Scott
read the role
Miss dresser
yes
yes Mr hires yes mrasky yes Madam Tony
no
you are approved thank you all
thank you okay our last application
number is ARB 22-68 the address is 2425
Sherwood the applicant is Andrew Calhoun
the owner is Parker McDonald
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review approval of a certificate of
appropriateness for the demolition of an
existing home and detached garage
construction of a new home an attached
garage and approximately the same
footprint as the existing home
okay
um this application is obviously for a
demo so if we could go through the
demolition part of it first I honestly
didn't do there's a lot of there's um I
didn't put that chart in here but I
think
um has everybody had time to look over
the demolition application part of this
yeah I I would just say from a staff
perspective I don't think there's any
doubt this merits demolition but what oh
go ahead but we do have to go through
the due diligence and there is um in the
end
um can only get to this point by doing
that so
um he has done a lot of due diligence
there's a demo letter there's demolition
plan
um we can ask questions and talk through
all of that
um in any order that you really want to
um there's
um
a pretty extensive did you did you have
a chance to do the extra drawings okay
great
um there's a there's a very complete
packet here
um with
um some preliminary landscape plans and
this will if if approved this will be
conditioned on going to the tree and
public gardens commission
um there is
I I've had a lot of good feedback from
from comments of those who have studied
the plan
um it's a it's a great packet it's a
very detailed house and it's it's very
fun to look at these drawings
um
I did ask the applicant and I explained
to the applicant that it is very rare
that this ever a demolition ever passes
the first time through it typically
takes two or more meetings
um the applicant has
um done some very hard work to get as
much Apple application information as he
can because today I called and said
um I really don't think this will pass
unless you have some kind of a or at
least it'll get tabled unless you have
some kind of streetscape studies you
really think you could get them done by
tonight and he is here with them so
we're going to pass those around
and I'd also like to add that initially
the applicant had submitted through
email some ideas of what he's originally
proposing which required I believe there
were a couple variances and
we asked if he would rethink that and
try to meet the requirements of the
zoning district and he did in fact do
that yeah
um
because just by way of a reminder
there's really not a good reason that
anyone should have to ask for variances
unless they have a very odd configured
lot on a demo and new build so I
appreciate that as well so you're saying
that this application has no variance no
variances I recommend them on making the
making it fit in the Box
make sure there's enough yep
so I I think because of the importance
and extent of this application being a
demo and a proposed new build I'm going
to give it to the applicant to be thorn
in and go through the thinking and the
process and
yeah please state your name uh Andrew
Calhoun do you saw me swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do thank you
so this project started as investigating
the potential remodel of the existing
home and it became very evident quickly
that that was not in the best interest
of what the client's goals were for uh
connecting having a connected garage and
ultimately having a home that could be
accessible that's very important for the
thus this project to be at grade level
and something the client can live in
who's with us at Parker McDonald uh for
um for the future
so that uh became very exciting it gave
us an opportunity to uh
think of what would be a better fit for
the neighborhood and for for Bexley and
uh for the design desires of the client
we originally had some ideas as Kathy uh
mentioned that ended up not working
within the building envelope we went
back to drawing board and have come up
with what we are very excited about this
craftsman style home that includes an
attached garage part of the couple of
the design uh parameters or challenges
that influenced what we wanted to
accomplish on the site was how do we
successfully hold the corner lot we
recognize that the existing home really
made no
um it wasn't really doing anything to
the Cassidy side of note so part of the
design effort was to try to introduce
some strong Gable that was facing both
North and the East while at the same
time trying to mask and uh do as much as
we could to minimize the impact of the
garage facade on any of the exposed
faces so those were strong elements of
design we love the class the the classic
craftsman style having the big overhangs
traditional Stone
um very classic forms so those were the
things that were influencing uh the
design that have brought us to tonight
and I'd be happy to talk through any of
the more nuances and details that you'd
like thank you is there a board member
that would like to go first
we have to ask for oh I'm sorry yes is
there anyone in the audience that wants
to speak in opposition of this applicant
or to it
oppositions first okay
okay seeing no opposition is there
anyone that wants to speak on behalf or
in support of this
applicant
you say it's your name Jeff beam if you
saw me swear from the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
I do thanks uh I live four houses away
from this site from this house uh and
um I've reviewed the plans
um this project to me is is a good
neighbor and that's what we would want
it's got simple forms it's trying to
honor the street that's trying to honor
my walk to Gramercy and to Starbucks
um it's got simple roof forms that are
consistent it you know it's it's a good
neighbor you guys will obviously talk
about the architectural Merit and the
details and all the details that you and
care that you have
um but as in your neighbor I appreciate
the care that the applicant has taken
thank you you happen to own the
Craftsman Bungalow a few Doors Down
mine's one of those 1920 Craftsmen kind
of ones it's a little bit
that's what I thought
I love your house by the way thank you
is there anyone else in the audience
that wants to speak about this
application
okay sing then is there a board member
that would like to go first
I'll go first since I'm the closest
neighbor from in this group um
I I don't have an issue with the
Demolition makes sense you've brought
the right materials which is important
because we have to follow the procedure
uh just regardless of our opinion so I
it seems to me that you've satisfied the
requirements uh when I first saw the
house honestly I sort of like uh hey
that's really like Colorado but you know
people say that my house should be in
New England and so
um you know what varieties the spice of
life we have a lot of great houses in
Bexley and this would be one of those
special
pie catching it's right on the corner
it's close to Main Street uh it's
it's great
that's all I got thank you
um Mr Scott you want to go next
sure uh you know so
love the
drawings I mean fabulous uh they they
match the character of the house so I
don't know if you do this for all your
products or
uh but this one really kind of blends
with this character of this home I like
the you know again the process of the
demolition I think has been satisfied I
like the idea that there appears to be
uh I mean you're on the corner lot so
you don't have two front doors uh but
you've created a side porch that kind of
resembles a door but there's no access
then
um and I think that's cool I think it
works well I think it sits well I think
I love uh close by so I would try to buy
this a lot uh and I think it uh it
definitely is different there's really
nothing like this and it's kind of
timber-esque as much Timber as you have
on this but uh I'm a Timber fan so I
think the heavy Timber you know if it's
in the details and which we're not
really seeing here but I think we could
work that'll be looked at uh that'll be
critical right is how those are put
together if it's a lot of black
ornamental Simpson ties or if it's a
traditional Timber connection details I
mean I think all of that will play a big
part right in in how this fits send to
the neighborhood because if you look at
other craftsman style Connections in
this in the city they're they're elegant
and they're they're kind of subtle right
there's not a there's some celebration
but there's not a lot of like
broadcasting and this big steel plate
here so I think that's going to be
important to make sure that that kind of
fits into the what we call this kind of
Bexley theme but stylistically you know
this is this is probably the top of
Craftsman and and but in a modern way
it's good it doesn't feel like a
production home at all definitely feels
like a custom home and I think your
proportions right I think this is very
helpful
um based on the scale of the
neighborhood uh and you know Cassidy
ensure they have all different scales I
mean it's the beauty of the neighborhood
so it doesn't feel out of place
so the only real like for color and
texture I'm curious about is the leg
roof
and then the renderings I think is
probably showing up more much lighter
than it would be in reality which if
that was true I would be like I I don't
like the kind of silver real bright
silver root
um but I don't think in reality that's
it it'll be much more kind of a
mid-grade and kind of maybe blend in
with your stone which kind of with the
dark wood of the the look of the siding
uh maybe that's the caps on the base uh
you are doing dark LeBrons is it bronze
or black windows bronze bronze so that's
good I hear Black is on its way out
I gotta write that I gotta write that
one down I gotta write that one down
it's getting around already uh you know
obviously you don't have you don't have
any notes on your elevations but you
know we we know what we're looking at
and we understand this sheet which is
incredibly helpful so this also really
wraps up the kind of quality that you're
putting together in the design uh and
it's easily understood and the windows
are fabulous and the design it all
really matches the style of the home so
as a holistic look at this I think it's
it's great it's fabulous and detached
garage it works well it's where it wants
to be on the site
um so I I really I don't have any
anything critical other than really
interested in seeing how those details
of the Timber work but just looking at
how you're looking at those connections
um you know standard Simpson brackets
won't work you're you're kind of
sandwiching posts and and beams so those
connections are going to be much
different than what you would typically
see and but again I've used them a lot
and I love them but in this in a house
sense here I don't think it's
appropriate in this neighborhood so I'm
interested to see how it finishes up so
good job
sure
um yeah I was going to comment about the
uh I mean congratulations first this is
a beautiful design
um the massing is great the Heights and
everything
um to me again it's about details and
I I struggle with the roof you know
that's a lot of asphalt shingle we're
sort of showcasing asphalt shingle did
you consider other materials for the for
the roof
yes we did consider
um we had some early conversation about
slate uh I think that from where we
started this project and some of the
first schemes were much simpler and we
knew that those schemes were not
appropriate to Bexley so the project
honestly has just grown a lot in scope
uh in size and to to get this level of
quality so I think we were being perhaps
cautious on knowing that at some point
cost is going to be reality and so
trying to come up with a roof that
um would have some of that texture
without the weight and the cost of slate
was how we ended up with the dimensional
shingle
that's that's why we didn't end up with
slate I guess is cost what about other
uh dimensional shingle profiles shapes
because this what you've picked is what
we see on all the houses where they tear
off the Slate so it's like you know
every time I see that stuff I know that
there was slight there before sure
but I mean there's other profiles to
that and I'm thinking of this roof as
this large kind of floating plane it's
very different from when people do a
retro
where they put
um you know renovation where they're
putting an asphalt shingle on and they
just like that color and it doesn't
matter if it matches the eve it doesn't
matter if it matches the
um the siding of the house we see a lot
of that unfortunately but here you you
have something different you have an
ability and it's kind of plastic you
have this ability to make this plane of
this roof of shingle
um because it's so because they're so
big
um
the texture is going to read differently
because of that size and so I'm I'm
looking at it and I'm thinking how do
you how do you tie the Eve in to make it
feel like just that floating plane and
so the white Eve and some of the white
details really bother me because they
um they are creating a separation
that I don't think needs to be there I
would be intent I would I would paint
the eve the same color as the shingle
or do something that made it look like
that whole plane had a thickness to it
uh you see and and it's because you what
I'm looking for is doing something
different with the shingle and maybe
that would encourage you to look at a
different profile for the shingle itself
the asphalt shingle I'm not saying not
to use that small right there's so many
options out there and what you're
showing us is you know the standard
go-to for we can't afford slate so we're
just going to throw this stuff up there
and I think you have an opportunity to
make it a design element not to go to
standing sea metal which would be lovely
um again it's a huge roof so maybe
that's just Overkill uh
yeah I'm I think that's a real challenge
um the other so the white the white trim
stuff kind of uh takes away from
it's just another color in the scheme
that I think takes away from the other
things going on on the elevations the
other materials so I would strongly
consider you know just trying to blend
that in with somehow with the shingle
itself maybe the maybe there's a Cove
piece at the top I don't know what your
gutter system is going to be are you
going to be using like half rounds are
you going to be using aluminum or copper
for your for your downspouts that'll be
a huge part of this too
have you thought about what those would
be we we haven't I mean we will have to
have gutters I think that
hearing that this
um kind of opportunity I I would start
to think about how that could
be a part of that resolving that detail
better what I worry is that if you don't
design those because to me they're going
to be as prominent as the timber
and if you don't design them then
don't take this the wrong way but you
know you're going to be in the aesthetic
of Cabela's
right you don't want that you want it to
feel more natural you want it to feel
like you've really put this effort into
a custom design but Timber designs are
everywhere now these kns uh condos or
apartments that are going up they're in
Kansas City they're in Denver they're in
Columbus now they all look the same and
they all have that kind of Colorado
Timber look to them you don't want that
you want to go A step above that and so
that's why I kind of question the
cultured stone we've had other projects
come before us where we've gotten the
owners to understand the beauty and
local
precedent for using natural stone I mean
not I mean I understand that this is a
natural material but
it's recognizable as being something
that's everywhere it's used on these
apartment buildings it's used on
Cabela's things like that Bexley has
real Limestone real sandstone
is there a way that you could bring that
part of bexley's character into this
band at the bottom
um I know that it's a it'd be a thicker
material but you've already got a fairly
thick base the way you're drawing it and
those peers
uh for the timber posts those also to me
um I think you're going to be in in a
way because that's the pedestrian Zone
that's that's the the stuff we see right
away
and
um you're you're at you're you're
showcasing cultured stone
it's not a whole facade but it's these
elements that are things that your eyes
go right to so either you downplay the
peers maybe they go down and they become
level with the belt course
but I would I would strongly encourage
you to try to put natural Limestone or
sandstone in here instead so that you
get away from that manufactured look
that we see on so many other buildings
going up in our in our country
um
the windows you said that they're going
to be a tan color they're not going to
be the white or is it just the actual
window itself
the the actual window itself is dark
bronze the trim is a kind of light bone
Ivory ivory
very light White
yeah I I mean I
I guess I would
again it it to me it's too much contrast
like it calls too much attention to
itself and I really want to focus in on
everything being well balanced but that
that Ivory if it's a darker Ivory like
almost a beige I think it would work but
not not the white that we see in the
renderings and the same thing with the
eve again but
that those are the things that on a
craftsman house that are really going to
you know stand out
um
the downspouts you know you've got these
big overhangs you got that downspout
that comes and goes way back in and goes
down and you know all of a sudden you
have you know all these things uh all
over the house that can take away from
the beauty of those Timber overhangs
and then when you transition from The
Rake which if it was done as the roof
color would be great it would be a it
would be less contrast to the wood it
looks like you're going to do wood
underneath so that's a nice transition
you create a little lip there so there's
a shadow line even
create a nice drip drip line
so I mean in general I mean I'm talking
about material details but Bexley has we
have a diverse you know character in our
in our buildings but what really stands
out
um from the original designs you know in
in 1908 and going up through and up till
the 70s 60s is that we had every every
building had this kind of nice
proportioned well detailed
um material quality and then we started
losing that in the 60s 70s 80s 90s and
we uh there are some people that grew up
with you know some of that straight
jacketing with vinyl and and aluminum
and that's what they think is
infectiously
so I'm saying that you can Elevate that
even more here because now we're used to
these new materials like the hearty uh
shingle I mean everybody looks at it and
knows it's not real shingle even from a
distance so how do you how do you use
these these modern materials and you
know make the corner turns and make the
connection to the windows and the window
trims actually look like they're that
higher quality and I think you can do
that I mean you're clearly very talented
here but that's just something to keep
in mind as you're going through those
details please yeah absolutely
thank you
Miss croskey
um so yeah drawings are great layout of
the house is great have no issue with
the Demolition of the previous house or
current house sitting there
um
I I'm pretty sure my comment back to
Karen when I saw this was uh it looks
like a house that should be in the
mountains of Colorado I used to live out
there I saw a family there I see these
all over the place and
so I'm just not getting I'm glad that
you explained that it wants to be like
arts and crafts or craftsman I'm just
not getting it
um
so I my advice would be to really take a
look at some like when I go look up arts
and crafts or craftsmen and I see new
right like new ones this is what I see
but that when you look at arts and
crafts and Craftsman that's I I'm not
getting it
um there's precedent for Brick along the
bottom for Craftsman
um yes you do sometimes see those double
columns but and you do see the brackets
and things like that but
um I'm just not like the you know the
open beams and everything those are just
few and far between so I just I think it
just needs to be looked at again
um in terms of the exterior but layout
great window placement great
have no issue with the actual map scene
or anything like that
just not really getting that Craftsman
or arts and crafts look
I would just like to add that um it's
pretty normal for us especially in a
demo to really you know nitpick and to
you know to to want to see it again
because
um you're setting a standard in a way
every time we have a demo and we build
something new people are going to say
how is that better than what was there
before and so we have this opportunity
to to Showcase that and this board is
really sort of sensitized to all of
these things as we move forward he has
been forewarned that demos don't usually
pass on the first meeting
foreign
okay
I like it a lot I I think that uh I
think Bexley is a mixture of housing
Styles and
I don't think that if you're gonna tear
something down which I think the house
you want to tear down is a good one to
tear down on the street I mean I walk by
there all the time I think it's probably
one of the worst houses on the street so
I love the fact that you're tearing it
down and starting over
um
I like a lot of what you're doing and I
I think you still have a lot of details
you know what color is the white but to
me those are tiny things that you work
out as you go through the process
um
uh I think things like adding cup copper
colored gutters on this to tie into your
windows you know your fronts or Windows
and stuff would be beautiful so I love
the scale of it I love the fact that
you've addressed both streets
um I think it's very interesting I love
the big overhangs
um my house has something similar so
yeah I like I love the green I think
it's very interesting I think you're
trying hard and I love the rendering so
I appreciate everything that you're
doing
Andrew does that I'm sorry does that um
does that sighting actually wrap Each
corner you don't have a corner board
right it actually wraps the corner good
okay so where are we um
in order to approve a demo we have to
approve a design okay
um so they're kind of tied to each other
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about this application
you already did I already did that
remember he yeah yeah well I'll do it
one more time I mean to me you know
we can either you have two choices you
can
map against the one to ask for a tabling
or not or you can have conditions to
refine details but uh we're gonna tear
down I would be more comfortable of
seeing it again
um there's enough questions raised and
good questions
and we we don't want to proceed with the
care down until we're certainly what
we're getting
do you feel like you've heard enough
comments that you would know what you're
coming back with next month
yes
so we can table this to a certain date
February 9th if you'd like
great great project great drawings
he's come a long way compared to what
was originally submitted
do you understand some of the you know
the comments that were I mean
materials and
um
that roof yeah you know I'd really love
to see some different options
um or just a variety of ways that you
could you know resolve that heat those
huge roof planes with with asphalt
shingle I mean it's a challenge but I
think it would it's a great exercise
because it would encourage us to you
know if you're successful with that and
we look at it and go wow asphalt shingle
really can look
pretty awesome especially on a craftsman
home though
that would be a win-win for Bexley
because anybody who's working with
Craftsman again we could recommend you
know these these ideas
be very helpful
are you good with it being tabled then
uh yes I think I'm not sure if I
understand the options but I think
that's the best path your options are we
can go ahead and vote and each board
member will give you a yes or no you
have to have three people to approve out
of the one two three four five of us so
you must get three people to say yes
your other option is
um to table it to next month and
basically you would come back next month
with just you know where he's asking for
options on roof
um we've had other people that have
tabled and when they came back they said
okay here's some options that I looked
at and in the end I still like my first
option
and in at times we have actually agreed
with them
um but because it is a tear down and
it's such a big project and stuff it it
helps us to just feel comfortable but
everything that we've approved
um we feel good about and stand behind
so if you
just you don't have to table to the next
meeting and I think there's another
option right you can
withdraw until you resubmit it or
approach or something right he can table
but if he's not ready for next month we
can still put it off until it's ready
but but if you can work with Karen again
yeah um but in it for the other
condition that you just want you know if
if time is the factor that you wanted to
get going I think that you're in a
position that this is just design
development that I don't think it's
going to put anybody behind I mean
that's only what four weeks away and
what we're not asking the board's not
asking for any major changes it's all
design development that you would do
anyway to get to construction document
and it'll just be good exercises to put
in the gutters and the roof lines at the
roof and the paint colors and the
hardware for the timber that kind of
stuff I think it's actually a win-win to
table it because you're gonna go through
that anyway and half of that equation is
the demo and you've kind of got the head
knot already on but that's okay so okay
so February 9th yep yes okay
and if you can just come back with some
addressing some of the questions and and
issues that people brought up and
um and then we can go ahead and vote on
it next month and
so who wants to make the motion for the
table then
croskey so moved second Scott
I will call the roll
Miss kraske yes Mrs
Mr Scott yes Mr higher yes Adam Tony yes
okay so we'll see you back here next
month with a few more details worked out
thank you thank you very much great job
okay that is all for yeah he did come
back now that we're at the end of it so
is the goal then for us to all pull up
and figure out a date so let's see what
they get let's see what they want to do
Jeff need to square in again no you're
already sworn in okay
we'll just reconvene thank you I thank
you to the chair and to the board for
your patience through this whole process
with us um and to your commitment for
getting this right for Bexley as you
heard I'm a resident I'm a neighbor I
want this to be right too you look
familiar
[Laughter]
city builders yes sorry I'm here with
Nicole
um the city you know as you know about
this project the city has expressed a
commitment to creating opportunities for
new affordable housing the city's
expressed a commitment to evolving North
Cassidy to be a different built form
this project is trying to sort of live
out those commitments and you have
patiently worked with us as we've tried
to figure that out
um we have not been resistant to the ARB
Direction at all I hope we've tried to
signal that I will confess that
sometimes we have been challenged in
either reconciling what sounds like
conflicting direction or in reconciling
direction to our budget and building
type
um but but I I hope you hear and see a
willingness
um and thank you for the delayed action
um this evening which gave us time to
really study the calendars and the
impending deadlines we have and to
confirm that we can ask for continuance
to be placed on the regular board
meeting
um in February and we will commit to
everyone's calendars just jump for joy
um thank you but thank you for your
willingness to even consider the option
um but we can go to the regular order
and we will work with staff to
incorporate feedback to provide the
details asked for share examples of
build work and we look forward to seeing
you then and I have no trouble sharing
line copying images to board members we
just cannot have any kind of Quorum or
discussion but any materials interim I
can for sure get feedback on yeah it is
our intent that you will see stuff from
us well before the package for the arv
meeting so that um hopefully when we
come back in four weeks it is something
that is not surprising and that
we know we're not going to incorporate
everything but that it's something that
everybody feels they can be proud of and
I know earlier there's been comment
about a substantial amount of
information and I thought my perspective
that doesn't mean 30 renderings it
doesn't mean
more of the same I'd rather see details
of your how you're finishing it even a
partial facade obviously we want to see
the whole building and it's all but you
know where you are doing your rendering
do the details I mean the images that
you presented here tonight where they
were just the vignettes of the
streetscape and that has more I guess
selling power but more kind of context
related kind of Graphics which help but
you know so for me it's it's you know
understanding the design intent on on a
small scale I can applying to a larger
skill I don't want you to spend all this
time creating 40 renderings yeah the
renders are great on the streetscapes
they really do help but I'd rather you
focus your time on the details of the
building to kind of tighten that all up
based on comments you've heard but also
things that you're going to bring to it
as well
um and that will go a long way so by
substantial for me that means like you
know just a substantial effort in
continuing develop fine-tuning the
design so does that mean that you're
working on these details and you're
sending them to uh Karen and then Karen
can you can blind copy to board members
but we can't all do it together
obviously correct you can send your
comments back oh I can send my comments
back to you directly okay yeah kind of
that's how I do the in case you ever
wonder why you only see Kathy and I on
your emails you're blind copy because
that's the sunshine sunshine we don't
want to start a conversation with you if
it goes out to all for many years we did
that and then we were told not to No
it's I mean it was the law changed
public knowledge
agenda correct we don't get together and
decide that it's an agenda correct we
Give opinions individually give
employment
we do appreciate
the ability for our team to
take a minute as Jeff said
yeah we're confident we're going to get
there we will we will get there excited
for this project so can we do we need a
vote
oh yes yes
I'll make the motion
that was Mr higher making that motion
sorry yes Mr hireman did croskey
I will call the roll
Miss Jocelyn yes Mr Scott yes Miss
kraske yes Mr yes Madam Tony yes thank
you
okay and I will just say too um you said
you're getting conflicting
um opinions and stuff you do have
different board members and I I mean if
you go back to November you had I think
two people different or so I you know I
apologize that you're maybe not feeling
like you're getting but you know one
good direction on where to go but that's
kind of the way that this board worked
we all have our own opinions we all have
our own vote and so
um you just didn't want our inability to
nail it this time to be interpreted as a
resistance to that yeah yeah not at all
it might help fully we'll all be here
next month so you get that consistency
too because that's always a challenge we
are volunteers and we have jobs and
sometimes we can't be here so and these
are all the regular board members not
alternates no it doesn't matter but that
means we're the best
Joanne speak for yourself Joanne
yeah that was a joke alternates are good
too
thank you so much we'll see you next
month before we adjourn I have two
updates for you yeah sorry they're quick
um solar panel ordinance has been passed
oh cool congratulations to all of your
work on it second the architecture
review board guideline the design
guidelines are in front of the board
they've had their first reading we I'll
talk to you about this offline later
um we have a tentative date of January
24th to do a presentation
exciting January 24th oh I'd like to do
that doesn't it doesn't have to be
instead of Tuesday I don't even know if
it's technically Tuesday and I don't
know if that's a set date I probably
should have held off but that was what
um mayor Kessler gave me originally and
then I don't know it might just be a
question and answer it might not be
necessary I am available I will not be
here January 24th is that an evening
it's six o'clock yes not seven
I mean
it started I don't know what time we'd
be on the agenda but
so that's
perfect so that works for you yep it
worked for you
thanks though okay I mean I'd like to
have
I like to have everyone but I'd like to
at the very least have Mr hire and
chairman Tony to represent okay so so
you said that Thursday the 26th
no the 24th the 24th Tuesday the 24th
what time
six but I'll let you know where we are
on the agenda when we get closer to it
and I'll also confirm it okay
this is council meeting is that what it
is yeah
okay
they had the first reading basically
Kathy can speak to this way better than
me because I don't go to City Council
meetings very often at all but they'll
have an opportunity to answer questions
maybe do a short presentation I I don't
know what the format is going to be
yeah they usually announce that public
forums so that people that are concerned
want to comment on it or hear the whole
whole shebang yeah okay
thanks