e
e e
yeah now you and me both
it's been a long couple
weeks take your time
Kathy it might appear that I'm the most
important person in the room but that's
not true the most important person in
the room just walked in see so you know
how it goes e
I'm ready thank you thank you all right
let's call to order the May 2024 meeting
of the board of zoning and planning for
the city of
Bexley Kathy if you're ready will you
call the role of the members of the
board present this evening please Mr
King here Mr echel Brer Mr Turner here
Mr Levine here Mr shik here Mr Clinger
here chairman beha I'm here as well
thank
you did we get minutes I'm trying to
think of whether I read them or not I
did read them as a matter of fact did
anybody have any comments about the
minutes of the April
meeting any additions or subtractions or
modifications all right I'll entertain a
motion to approve the minutes of the
April meeting please so moved Kingler
thank you Mr Kingler there a
second second shik thank you Mr shik all
in favor of approving the minutes
say say I what I I and if you weren't at
the meeting and you abstain that's
perfectly fine too so if you didn't read
them that's perfectly fine as
well you abstain okay so we have I I
over here I
here oh you didn't get a copy of okay so
you have to obstain yeah they're on the
website okay oh they were weren't sent
okay so I don't think we have enough
votes then so let's just move the
minutes to the next meeting is that okay
I mean we have four out of seven so
that's a majority well if if if you're
in favor I have three one two three but
none of the
four well can vote for it if you read
them but I I think the question is do
they accurately reflect what occurred at
the
meeting you weren't here unless you
watch the tape you know it's a little
plus is there any harm in tabling the
there is not the the approval of the
minutes till the next meeting so let's
just do that so just for future
reference
then I think at some point in time in
the past we have gotten them sent to us
but if now we have to go to the website
to look at them we'll just have to make
sure we go to the website prior to the
next meeting they're just on with all
the other applications because I'm not
the one that does them so I never know
when Elizabeth is going to post them so
um but they're always up a few quite a
few days before okay and they're also in
the Dropbox link that's in the email um
that's there you
go do we need something there was a
motion made motion actually failed and
now we're trying to table
it well we can table it that's not a
problem well if the motion failed it can
also just come back next week if you
want to just put it on the next
agenda yeah make sure your mics are on
if you're if you're speaking too should
I just move
to Mr chairman motion to table that's
fine is there a second second okay thank
you all in favor of tabling the approval
of the minutes of the April meeting say
I I I all opposed the motion passes
the we have a an opportunity for public
comments I know Megan Meers the
development director wishes to make some
comments does anybody else here wish
comment on the uh operation of the
Bap as opposed to making comments about
a particular case which is not what this
is for if not Megan
please give us your information perfect
thank you chairman behall and members of
the board it's good to see everybody
again if I haven't met you I know we
have some new board members my name's
Megan Meyer started here in about
January and since then I've tucked into
some really fun projects Chief among
them right now for me is planning mural
Festival It's A New Concept for the city
of Bexley with the main goal of bringing
some new energy to some of our outdated
outdated buildings on Main Street um so
right now we have a committee underway
we're meeting weekly we have
representatives from 934 galleries cons
consultation from an artist group called
Catalyst Columbus as well as the Greater
Columbus Arts Council um and then
members of the Bexley community that
volunteered because they're interested
in art generally as well as a council
member and of course yours truly in the
mayor um and from those meetings what
we've done so far is solicit for um
artists from across the country to come
and do up to four murals for us and I'll
explain a little bit why it might be
four it might be three um we did that
process last month and we actually had
58 artist Supply it was absolutely Fant
fantastic um and the quality was really
hard to discern between um really
wonderful submissions last week we did
narrow that group to 10 finalists um and
we asked for Concepts specific to Bexley
as opposed to just artist portfolios and
from that we hope to narrow it to a
group of three to four finalists who
will actually pay to install murals on
Main Street um and so if anybody's
interested so far these have been just
kind of generally open meetings but a
general call out to the community if
anybody wants to come pick the final
pieces of art we're doing that um on
June 17th during our normal meeting at
3:30 that is open to anybody in the
public including members of this board
um from there what we hope the process
to be is to take those final three to
four Concepts um to ARB who we also
briefed about this last month um it's
forther hopeful consideration and not of
approval and then bring to this public
body on June 27th um it is under bap's
purview to approve public art um in the
city and so it would just hopefully be a
conversation about what art goes where
um I will let you know too we have some
exciting and um thrilled I think uh
owners of properties along Main Street
right now Rabino is being primary of
them that would like to have one of
these installations um and then we have
a few other options and we're waiting to
kind of match the art with the right
location um when we narrow in those
finalists um so with that I'm looking
forward to coming to talk to you again
in June but just wanted to give you a
brief update and to invite you to that
meeting um on June 17th very good thank
you m thank you ask one quick question
did you work with Catalyst Columbus when
they did the project ining yeah sure did
yeah and that's uh how they got looped
into this but yes um they were guilty of
a couple of the projects we did over
there so yeah thank you thanks
Megan all right um we have first old
business which involves application bcap
23-23 involving 2200 East Main Street
the applicant is Ryan Pearson the owner
is Continental real estate companies the
is seeking design review and approval of
the conditions as part of the original
board approval of the of the certificate
of appropriateness for the Redevelopment
of the vacant Trinity Lutheran apartment
structures at various addresses on East
Main Street um this application was
approved with conditions at the December
2024 board I mean that's probably 2023
board
meeting um so it has been uh partially
before us but not complet completely so
we have some new information so who is
here tonight on behalf of the applicant
come on forward there
gentlemen and if you would raise your
right hand you swear or affirm any
testimony you give the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth thank
you very
much Kathy you want to give us a little
Prelude please sure I'm gonna have Karen
pull up the seven conditions uh which
apply to the building and those are
items that were addressed last month at
the architecture review board meeting so
in order
uh the applicate was before the a beond
May 9th the following is what was
provided to address correct conditions
one through seven of the eight original
conditions related to the building
surrounding and surrounding Drive samp
Number One samples of the following
brick colors Windows railing trim canopy
coping paint colors and metal sighting
were provided screening was add number
two screening was added to the parking
lot uh number three Westside Drive was
moved and were Green Space for planting
was
added okay the elevations of the
proposed buildings were modified to
lessen the mass and adding insets as
well as modifications to the Northeast
and Northwest corners of the building
and adding a partial sixth floor was
also provided number five the previous
changes noted related to the height
reduction of the north elevation is
provided the west elevation has
modifications
and number seven the sixth story has
been added to a portion of the building
in the center to southern end of the
overall
building number eight the fact that
eight number eight condition applies to
further progress of the project and
tenants still need to be secured will be
brought back later to the ARB for a
review and recommendation to the border
of zoning and planning as well after the
applicant updates the board on the
elevation modifications material samples
it would be appropriate to next to have
Karen Shar her follow follow-up comments
from the ARB review meeting uh the
applicant is still working on the
landscape plan with the tree and public
garden commission changes to the parking
are still being developed for the Becky
Square City Hall parking lot and the cic
and the city will need to review and
approve any changes before they can be
shared with the
Bap uh they're also working with staff
on the easement updates and parking
agreement uh which is
underway uh but not
complete I'd also like to note that the
amount of work that will be necessary
for the Redevelopment of the site
includes demo of the buildings removal
of trees sanitary sewer utility line
relocation and sleeving of a section of
the city's sanitary main line that will
be maintained and extended through the
site also changes to the grade in
accordance with the approved site plan
if the board of zoning and planning
finds the conditions 1 through seven as
recommended by the ARB are approved
staff would agree that the overall
building design massing material site
plan for 2200 East Main Street are
approved with the conditions remaining
related to the parking agreement
easement final Hardscape and Landscape
which will return to the board when
those items are ready for final review
this would make it acceptable for the
building construction plans to be
submitted once staff confirms that the
plans match the approved design and
meets the building code statutes a
demolition permit can be issued once the
existing structures are demolished
construction on new and on the new
structure will not begin until all
necessary utility site modifications are
complete
okay you want gentlemen you want to come
up and give us some information or do
you want to uh make comments first Karen
Karen well I mean I can I can answer any
question I can make some pretty
General okay um but the they really came
to us with a pretty complete materials
packet but we had some discussion and
the board brought up some possibilities
and some issues frankly about some of
the brick types but felt comfortable
enough with how developed things were to
move along with the condition that I
mean not a condition of approval but the
understanding that as design development
happens they would continue to come back
to the board for feedback I mean it was
it was not an adversarial relationship
it was like very helpful because we have
quite a few board members who do this
kind of work for a living you know they
do apartments and and Retail um mixed
use building so it was a very
interactive like that's great look at
some more brick you know kind of details
stuff like that so um very
generally actually more than very
generally the conditions have been met
except for that eighth condition which
can't be until they secure a tenant um
but they were very open to Bringing
everything back for review as we as the
design development
continues okay I'm happy to answer any
questions okay
um gentlemen why don't you come forth
and uh give us a little presentation so
we know what we're talking about here
please careful
there sir your name please if you would
I'm sorry I didn't get it earlier it's
green green is on there we go uh Brad
Pauling with ph7 Architects thank you um
well welcome thank you for having us
back uh yeah as K said we we had a very
good very productive meeting uh earlier
in May here and we wanted to bring in
some of the the samples and the
materials that we've been progressing
with um Karen do we if we need
elevations and stuff do we have that
information okay you know the hearing
this hearing is is not that a retrial of
everything but if you guys if you would
like me to bring it up just to kind of
run through it then you can feel
comfortable with kind of where sure
Kathy the the the question is uh so they
are coming to us with a more or less a
progress report on on the design and
approval and conditions that were
uttered and issued at the time that we
granted the the uh certificate of
appropriateness so because it's such a
huge project they couldn't give us all
the information at that time they
weren't getting this kind of detailed
done when they were getting the initial
certificate if they didn't get it they
weren't going to spend all this money to
do this stuff I would assume I don't
know the facts but I'm guessing that so
now we're at the stage where they're far
enough down the line they've gone to ARB
with some of these details ARB is is
recommending approval of the Fulfillment
of these conditions and now it's our job
to uh approve I deferred to Kathy
because I didn't know if there are other
things too but in terms of ARB we're
recommending that you release them from
the from not moving ahead ahead until
these conditions are met because they
have been met enough for ARB to be
comfortable with the with a you know
very narrowed down that certain brick
types will come back as they research so
why don't I just read the recommendation
from the architecture review board on
thetive decision okay so the findings
and decision of the board for
application number bcap 2323 for
property located at 2200 East Main the
architecture review board recommends to
the
bcap find that the ARB conditions 1
through 7 in the bcap December 18th 2023
record of decision have been met and
that the remaining condition ARB number
eight cannot be addressed until the
tenant is
secured um so that is their
recommendation to this board to accept
them as part of the certificate of
appropriateness according to the
outstanding conditions addressed by the
ARB I think that last sentence is
important too that the applicant has
agreed on record to to an additional
condition not of approval but in the
future as the design development and or
changes proposed as the project
progresses intended or secured they will
be back to ARB for review and
recommendations right one question I
have is it says there hasn't been
acquisition of a tenant yet but I mean
is there going to be just one tenant or
are there going to be several tenants
that would be one question I would have
yeah there's several TS I thought so so
we'll be back a few times I would think
process I see okay and the question part
of the question is what does that tenant
want you to do with their space corre
correct I mean I think there's potential
for awnings or signage or you know color
changes relative to their signage I mean
there's there's a lot of I'll call
detail that needs to be presented and
and approved so that's tenant specific
cor correct and it does state number
eight outdoor dining adjustments to be
reviewed by the airb when a tenant is
secured okay okay thank you
y all right Brad then that that sort of
brings us to where we are and kind of
gives us orientation of what we're doing
here sure can I can I just ask just
about so basically it was approved with
these eight conditions that they had to
get approval from the ARB so now the ARB
has approved those points so we're not
here to discuss those points we're just
basically just to say you met the
requirement of having ARB approve these
seven points we need to vote on whether
we just need to
like uplock we need to Legal because
we're the legal entity we need to say
yes to that seven things so we're not
really here to even discuss the points
because arb's responsibility was that
ARB approved them which has already
happened well ARB is a recommending body
and they recommended to you and you
approve them what they asked for so
conditions one through eight have
actually been approved by this board
they went back to ARB with sample boards
and all of that stuff got a
recommendation that the conditions have
satisfied um for this approval so ARB
recommended to you that you determine
they be satisfied however as Karen is
pointing out as you know as buildings
get built if materials aren't available
or things change because of the progress
of the construction anything like that
that happens the condition was we can
find their approved but if something
changes you're coming back this isn't a
blanket approval this is approval of
what we saw and determined before us
recognition that condition 8 which is
patio space related to a specific tenant
really cannot be approved by the board
until there's a specific tenant and the
design comes and that so and and part of
this all ties into the demolition they
have to have the building approved
putting construction plans at as part of
the demolition when that building is
approved and before the city you you've
signed off on it they can get a
demolition permit and start the
demolition what this what ARB wanted to
make clear to them is and I guess this
board too would approve it the same way
ARB did is if there is any change coming
from you on what's happening or then
you're you need to come back and the
applicant did agree to that so this is
really the last step in terms of the
approval of the building itself which
was what they need for their um
demolition permit to issue that's really
what this is about as Kathy pointed out
in her staff report there are additional
things that are going to have to happen
um that will come back before you too
but they're not essential to the
issuance of a building permit they are
or a demo permit sorry they are
essential to the building permit but
they're not essential to the demolition
demolition permit okay yeah so and a lot
of those things may change as demolition
occurs and they get into site issues and
site development issues and utility issu
some won't access points and those
things are already determined but there
are other things that are coming back to
you they are all in the works but they
are not something that directly impacts
the demolition permit itself so we
wanted to be sure that everybody was
satisfied that with ARB was satisfied
they came to them gave them a detailed
presentation um except for the patio
which ARB said yes they've met
everything but we understand that this
is a big project and you know there are
supplies materials and other things that
they asked them to look into that may be
a change and if there was a change it
would come back to them and to
you and and you're right this all has
already been reviewed but in the spirit
of openness and you know we want we have
it here to share because and this is the
board that actually makes well it's your
conditions yes your there are conditions
and we're a board that actually approves
the arv is more or less a a board that
simply makes recommendations so that's
the way it got set up when the statutes
were revised here and so that's what
we're uh charged with the um and I think
we all I don't know how familiar
everybody is here but to demolish any
building in Bexley you just can't say we
want to demolish this building because
it's not architecturally significant you
have to say and here's what we're going
to replace it with and it has to be
designed and it has to be approved and
and so what they're doing here is they
saying uh we we gave you conditions now
have they been met uh to the
satisfaction of this board with the
recommendation that we have now received
from the from the ARB right so that's
kind of the process I think they're good
questions about what is the process
here so with that in mind why don't you
continue and and give us a little idea
so we do have some idea of what it is
that we're looking at please I think for
us fundamentally this is the building
that we would like to build we've gotten
through enough of that detail discussion
that there are there are some nuances to
the actual brick right the name and the
manufacturer and but but from a
fundamental standpoint the color palette
the type of materials we feel very
confident and we've brought those to
show you guys as well um the images that
are in this packet were updated for that
may meeting um they show a refinement to
the concepts that we had brought forth
uh before fundamentally the building is
not different it's it's it's essentially
the same but there are small refinements
here and there and as the design
progresses we've taken the time to think
through those those specific details and
and really more importantly the
materials that go into the building and
so that's what I had brought as part of
this um I am more than happy to walk
through any part of this but uh and for
the sake of making sure you you know
your time and ours I I happy to just
start with showing you some samples and
materials and then um we can go through
questions I think that's a good way to
do it and sort of give us an overview of
what's where and what kind of materials
we're looking at
um so the building along Main Street um
is
has there's there's really most of our
materials are showing up on that front
facade along Main Street and so we have
been looking at a dark colored brick and
a red colored brick as contrasting
colors to the masses that you see along
Main Street that are in those elevations
so what you have in front of us here is
a darker colored brick that we see as
part of the facade for the retail and
office spaces along Main Street sort of
the two-story facade that you see and
then the red brick is the brick that
goes goes kind of around the back and
the higher volumes as we move around and
then there's a sample in front that's
gray that's a fiber cement panel um it's
a little lighter than the color we
propos but um it's a it's a good
indication of the type of material that
would be the fifth Story of the facade
where you on the elevation that you see
above the brick and then the last piece
is the six floor and the material that
you see that's a very dark color on that
front faade probably back back one Karen
I think there you go yeah and you can
see it kind of in the in the back
reaches in the in the top Corner um
we're actually proposing a
metal
system uh this is this is called it's a
random plank metal system and so the
system sits like this and it's got these
different widths and they have a a
backer panel between them and so it's a
it's a it's a very contemporary use of a
material and so we one of the things
that we talked about with ARB was ways
of um finding the right use of the
balance of materials and so that dark
material you see on the six floor that
you see here um that's that's what we're
proposing for this and it it it adds a
little bit of a contemporary uh flavor
to locking these traditional brick
masses together in a little more of a
contemporary way um it's something that
as a as a group we've been studying for
quite some time but um we've brought
Windows uh the windows you see along
Main Street are all storefront black
black anodized storefront and then the
windows above um are black vinyl and
that translates around the rest of the
building and so we're we're creating the
pallet along Main Street and then we're
using that pallet on the other on the
other four sides three sides can you
turn around and show the audience those
picture so they can see as well what
what you're talking about please thank
you this is this is actually the color
thatp this is okay true
color when you said dark brick so
there's two what I would call dark
bricks one is a reddish and one is
grayish or greenish or something reddish
red brick and then what is more of a
dark colored either brown or charcoal um
we've always kind of been showing this
sort of blue gray brick that you see on
the first two stories um that's the two
that's the two that you see in front of
you so that's the one on the right down
here yes okay yep can you show those to
the audience as well please thank
you red top top floors you see in the
corner here down to the ground and then
the darker brick that's along Main
Street so then r he's gonna go on theid
on the sides in the
back hold on hold on folks because we
have a hearing
here I have to have you come up and ask
your questions on the record so but
we'll get to that in a
second I can I can answer the question
because I think I know they answer okay
good well if you kind of anticipate
questions you're certainly free to
answer them one of the ARB comments to
us was uh study of a different red brick
um the brick that we had presented on
the ninth um is a slightly different it
was a little same color way it just had
a rougher texture um and so we've gone
back to some suppliers here in town and
found a br up brick that we think is
more appropriate for that it's one of
those subtle details that that we think
were were on the mark uh color-wise it's
the same it's it's just a different
texture to the face a very different
texture though that's that much nicer
yeah I'd say the color though is really
really close so I I think this is a
little richer actually probably you're
saying that the the uh Architectural
Review Board had some input in getting
this coloration or this
texturation changed a little bit they
have not seen this brick this is one of
those things that we will we will bring
back to them when at that point but to
us it's I wouldn't say insignificant but
it is a detailed as we continue to work
through this process and um make sure
that the materials that we need are
available in a year and a half later
when we need them I mean there with this
type of work it's there's going to be
things that we try for and then we're
going to set the stage and this is our
this is what we want to build and we're
going to work to find exactly that
product and if we have to deviate too
far that's exactly what we're saying we
we will be happy to come back and make
sure that it is compliant with the
intent of what we're showing you here
today and and can I address a question
that shi just asked me on the side and
it's an excellent question this page the
actual manufacturer and specific color
is not necessarily the final this was
this is a um this is an this is a
collection of what the color choices are
um but they may be different
manufacturers and products like based on
you know just a little bit of detail
about the brick it was a very kind of um
rough brick with kind of some pock marks
and and the board members were afraid
that it wouldn't be very durable and um
you know the the the applicant listened
and this is much nicer in my opinion
what we saw two weeks ago so don't get
too stuck on what the names are here but
yes in terms of the color palette and
the combination correct okay
correct no this it's it's a full full
bed veneer
yeah all right one quick question is do
we have any process of when I hear what
you're saying when you go to buy you
know tons and tons of this brick they
don't have the brick that you want is
there any sort of like hey ARB we got to
go with this one are you good with this
one right you know right that's probably
what six months out a year out I don't
know yeah we actually addressed that a
little and um the applicant agreed and
and I think it's good practice for even
homes um let alone big buildings to do a
sample a sample sample submitt sample on
site on site yeah yeah mockup mockup and
then for for the audience that doesn't
know that's usually like a 2 by two or a
4x4 on-site mockup with the right mortar
and everything so and it sits out out
there for about a week so you can see it
in different weather so interesting and
we all agree that that's a good idea I I
I think with a building of this size and
I'm I'm speaking for for Jason but the
team we'll we'll have a mockup of all
how all these materials come together
and that's one of those things that the
contractor will use as we use it as a
way to approve the process as it's on
the ground and easier to understand it
it's Windows is flashing it's the trims
all that stuff so um that's absolutely
something that we will most likely have
on
site okay all right any any other uh uh
items you'd like to talk about or we
that pretty much I think questions it's
probably the best if you guys have
specific questions I mean I can walk
through the presentation but I don't
know how much you do or don't need it I
think you giv us a nice overview members
of the board you have any comments or
questions I had one question I was
wondering if you could show some visuals
for condition five which had to do with
the changes that were made to the north
elevation
sure um can you pull up that North
elevation actually this is the that
image right there would be fine too if
you zoom in on it yeah there you go yeah
so this is the this is the north pade
that is at the back of the property um
the changes that we had talked about
with ARB have to do with kind of the
massing of the the Brick piece in the
middle and then the dark element on the
top and so one of the concerns was this
building um at because it is a fivestory
building at the back how does the
building it does a good job on the front
of kind of having a little bit of a
Cascade of materials where we're um
we're changing the materiality so on
this particular facade there's there's a
step back in that dark material from the
brck you can kind of make it out in the
center there and so we've we've created
depth to the facade be in the previous
iteration we showed you it was it was a
flat story facade and we've done a job
of so those are some balconies to those
units on that fifth floor and then we've
changed the color palette of the gray to
Brick to dark material that that the the
proportions of those three things we've
we've adjusted um and that was that was
that was the changes that we made to
address that com okay let me ask my
question a slightly different way just
because I know this process has gone on
for some time and there's been a number
of different meetings um I believe the
original goal of the arb's suggestion to
add a six story in the front was to
lessen the massing in the
back from my perspective we haven't
quite done that and I was just wondering
if you could take a step back and early
on we talked about the total number of
units in the building and just try and
understand like has that changed did it
hold when we added the six story and it
came out of units in the back or where
did that end up um so the the massing
changes are also in part I maybe I'm
forgetting the sequence of where things
are but we cut these Corners out of the
building as well or orally this was five
stories to a perfect corner on both and
so this corner occurs on both the East
and the west side of the building we've
introduced that smaller sort of
one-story element that runs the corner
and then on that the fifth floor at the
back you can see how the building is
stepping back some so those unit types
were changed from from from one type of
unit to another type of unit in order to
create a little bit more depth um
and yeah we I I can't
remember exactly the number of units
that we had when we presented but um
we're currently at 232 units if I
remember right right
Jason so from the
prior uh Viewpoint that we were looking
at it didn't appear that the it appeared
that the sixth floor was across the
entire Southern uh Northern uh aspect of
the building but when I looked this
mockup it it appears to be only a por
the top one only a portion of the yeah
the the sixth floor we've shown the
sixth floor in this configuration um
previously this it hasn't grown any so
just the piece you see that that is
towards Main Street is the sixth floor
and what the the goal of dealing with on
the North elevation was to try to
simulate and try to work through the
same sort of aesthetic of how far it
steps back and so forth as we sort of
erod the building um we're doing that
through the erosion of the corners
through
a more subtle step back and then a
changing of the materiality to help try
to give that appearance um changing the
unit types and changing the mix of those
units and so forth really starts to
impact how you know how the whole thing
is bundled um so we've done we've we'
continue to erode the corners as a way
to try to answer some of those questions
so it's not it's not the same as the
front of the building it's a different
strategy maybe my question might better
be directed towards the ARB conclusions
but I'm just trying to understand
it doesn't feel like the massing on the
back of the building has changed which
was that condition so I'm just trying to
understand why did we say that was
okay it it really did I mean it was more
boxy across the back so they by cutting
in not creating the balconies and the
insets that was the recommendation of
the ARB to add a sixth floor in exchange
for those Pockets that they were going
to be adding to the building they didn't
say where but the elevations were shared
with the board which they found to be
acceptable enough to re recommend maybe
I'm just not remembering correctly but I
thought that those balconies were there
the last time we looked at it they might
have been the last time you looked at it
but this has been this wasn't something
that was just solved in the last
iteration that that was a condition
that's being has been worked on for a
long time the first part of it was
getting was notching this out and then
and correct me if I'm wrong then they
did the same thing on the other side at
first it was just on I think so on this
side on the east side and then they
stepped back the second floor as well
and then added brick so there there have
been a lot of a lot of changes and one
of the primary reasons for for the sixth
floor also was to allow us on Main
Street and this is probably way going
back to one of the earliest ARB
discussions but the the notch that you
see in this Courtyard that you see along
Main Street and the ability to have the
two pieces of the building kind of have
that courtyard that is also partly what
happened to the sixth floor we used some
of those those units got transplanted
onto top so we kind of take the boxes
and kind of move them around um I don't
remember it being just purely about the
north side it was also about the the
South facade and other places so um I
can't just apologize I don't remember
exactly what the date was and what
iteration we were at when we we came and
presented
last if we look at the North side again
uh
is the
dark uh floor I don't know what word to
use the story fifth Story there that the
sixth story no that's the fifth Story
That's the fifth Story
correct so the sixth story is further
recessed and to the West yeah from from
this particular view you're not be able
you won't be able to see
six further away from the building you
might be able to but it's pretty there's
it's really in the front yes can I so
I'm just jumping in because I'm kind of
tagging onto him a little bit so number
six is the west elevation has has more
variation in the plane and then number
seven is the addition of the six
story for your response on number seven
you have the six story has been added to
a portion of the building in the central
to southern end of the overall Building
C can you just explain to me your
responses to six and seven and how those
relate like what the changes were to the
West facade and
and um and how the how the six story got
moved or did it get moved sized no the
sixth floor hasn't moved um the
elevation of the West uh Karen do you
have the long elevation I can talk over
ter
um actually the west elevation is
probably the one that's had the most
material change from the last time you
saw it um this facade did not have as
much brick as you see in in the current
iteration um we have basically taken
what we're doing on the east side or the
the side here that faces the bexi Square
parking lot and for the all intents of
purposes we've replicated that on the
west and so we have so it's talking
about it's requesting a change in the
plane so is are there ins and outs along
there or is it still a flat wall or it
it there are ins and outs where you see
the balconies that connect the brick so
the the the spa the negative space
between the the two the brick masses
each one of those is is slightly
recessed from The Brick base and so and
then as you get to the corners it steps
back some more
um the biggest change that we had as
part of those conversations with ARB was
the materiality and not changing
completely the vocabulary we were using
from one side of the building to the
other and that was a lot of I think the
comments that we had from them um they
wanted to see more consistency and the
the strategy to how we're handling that
brick Mass with the the fiber cement
piece above um
was to us was the takeaway from those
conversations and has to do with is it
directly related to massing or is it the
use of the material to simulate the
massing and and and this is the strategy
that um we we took by taking the whole
building around and and using the same
kind of concept everywhere okay because
because the one side view to me it still
looked like a single plane basically the
length I mean Karen can you go West the
W can you go to the one that kind of
shows the West Wall I think it's the
same as the
front yeah that one yeah the undulation
so there's not I mean the balconies seem
to line up the brick and still seems to
be it's the space behind the balconies
that the recesses are occurring in um
Ian this is a hard view to because it's
a Long View and so those the subtleties
of that is is we did not
subtract 15 feet of material from the
building to create more more alos and
more cuts um that would have
fundamentally changed the number of
units in the building right um and so
behind the scenes we changed unit types
in order to create a little bit more
ulation as much as we can have we can do
um anym it's it's a dramatic reduction
in type of and unit type so okay and
then on the sixth floor the way the
comment
reads you're saying that there was no
change to the sixth floor between the
way the comment reads is that the ARB
supporting the sixth flooor so you might
might have presented it the same way it
is now I'm just checking to see if there
was any there is no fundamental Chang no
movement of it or anything like that
okay
thanks okay any other questions members
of the board or
comments anybody uh does anybody else
wish to present anything from the
applicants perspective can can we also
address the drive modification explain
how that was changed based on a
recommendation oh the West Drive yeah
yeah that'd be a good
idea
um yeah if I can remember that part
Jason I might need you on the the West
Drive uh How the West Drive has been
modified in in any way okay I'll let
I'll let you take it yeah yeah I didn't
get my name previously it's Jason Hawk
com real estate 150 East Broad Street
43215 um so so the we have been working
with the Alex Ander folks on the west
drive if you recall there were some
concerns raised by those folks from the
beginning of the project right
understandably so right um and so we
have been working through legal issues
relative to access easements and such
like that and you know candidly the
attorneys are still working through the
documentation of it but what's been
agreed to is that the West Lane will be
southbound only from the Alexander okay
drive through the garage entrance and at
that point in time it will convert into
two-way uh TR traffic you know
Northbound and southbound the the drive
has also been narrowed and there will be
ballards on the drive to reinforce the
oneway traffic southbound okay um and
then uh I think the other key component
that will be of interest to the board is
that the Alexander folks will have the
right to use that drive for maintenance
of their own building so
we've come a long way since the original
piece at least in my opinion relative
to an agreement with those folks on how
that's configured so ultimately we we've
been able to get through the fire
department with that process and which I
think I raised as an original concern
back in November December uh and now
it's to a point where I I believe all
parties are in agreement with how it's
operating so just so we get it straight
this is Main Street here on the right
correct correct and so the traffic is
two-way until that where that white
vehicle the white car and that would an
entrance to a park garage correct beyond
that the traffic goes toward Main Street
only correct okay and there's ballards
to sort of uh insinuate that that's
what's happening correct okay and it's
narrower than it was in the original
drive for for reference and and just the
orientation of both properties uh the
Alex Alexander actually sits north of
that drive so the vehicle's coming where
that white car is coming out that
actually fairly closely aligns with the
drive that you see into the back of the
Gateway or where you would park for the
Old Bag of Nails or whatever so right
there should be no lights coming from
the cars as they're exiting the garage
into any Resident units from from that
driveway has there been any uh change in
the design of the drive from Park View
East into the rear of
this uh lot well there's two pieces of
that um that's still two-way traffic for
the the residents of the Alexander um as
as part of that I believe we've agreed
to Mill and replace the asphalt in there
as as a good faith effort to to make
sure it's maintained uh properly um but
beyond that no that they would still
have their typical access point because
cuz I believe they have some uh maybe
five or six spots just east of their
garage that they would use for their own
residence okay so so the other just to
give a little bit more background too
the Alexander also has the ability to
park in those North
spots uh north of our garage oh so right
they they will use that uh as far as
overflow for any visitors they may have
or uh handyman or whatever that might be
visiting the site that they will also be
using that um as part of their everyday
operation okay sorry just I assume
you're not connecting to the old B
parking lot because elevation correct we
are not connected is an elevation issue
uh less of an elevation issue but I I
think the the way it's it's developed is
to just
to disconnect those so there's not that
you know additional traffic through
there I think has has been is an issue
we have not even approached them about
it candidly so you know really and just
for reference I mean this this drive the
West Drive is a right in right out so
that it's also intended to not allow for
a lot of traffic coming from eastbound
Main Street off the 70 yeah I understand
I just I mean I think the city tries to
push across parking between correct
correct I I ask my belief is there's not
an interest to to from from the property
owners okay are there any uh Kathy you
have additional comment um I just want
to update the board also that there were
a lot of questions generated at our
previous meetings uh from the neighbors
and we actually met with the neighbors
on the 21st and Mr Hawk went over uh
their construction Logistics and
answered a lot of the questions and
resolved a lot of concerns that we had
and I just thought the board should that
thank you is there anybody in the
audience that wishes to make a
comment all right thank you all right
any
further questions or comments from board
members if not uh I think we
should uh I don't know call the question
here in some fashion you have a findings
uh a fact for us
Kathy the findings of fact and decision
of the board for application number bc-
23-23 for property located at 2200 East
Main
Street after reviewing the updated
elevations material samples screening
Drive modifications and massing
reduction the board finds that the
conditions 1 through S as recommended by
the architecture review
board be
approved with number eight being
addressed when the tenant are
secured and with the conditions
remaining related to the parking
agreement easement final landscape
Hardscape which will return to the board
when those items are ready for final
review okay so let me suggest that you
add and
any future
modifications be brought to the
board significant modifications I
suppose
and okay and that the applicant agree uh
that the conditions all designed
developed and are changed
proposed as the project progresses and
tenants are secured will be brought back
to
the board designing and planning for
final review right also think you said
at the very beginning the very first
line you read was the applicant is
seeking or that the board finds that
there is an approval of the conditions
well the conditions already one through
seven yeah but I think it should say
satisfaction of the conditions section
of the conditions from the December 18th
from the conditions three uh record of
decision by the board of zoning right I
mean that's what we should be voting on
we're not really approving the
conditions we're approving that they've
been
satisfied adequately to move forward
with the Demolition aspect of the
project really what they are is
conditions that were associated with the
approval of the certificate of
appropriateness in
December I'm not trying to lawyer you to
death here but you know just trying to
be precise I appreciate it all right
uh all right do I hear a motion to uh
approve the findings of fact conclusions
law as read and
modified just one point of clarification
heard you say in the past who defines
significant when you say significant
changes we're trusting Karen and Kathy
to determine whether or not it's a
significant change
right okay I'm just yeah well what you
know you get to the point of they're
going to change uh uh one uh corner by
three inches and and you know right I
don't think they have to come back for
that but if they're going to make any
significant changes uh significant means
having some serious impact on the yeah
have some impact at all I think on the
project I just wanted to clarify those
in the audience I appreciate that yes
sir I so move Clinger okay thank you
there's a motion is there a second
second second Mr line thank you sir
Kathy please call the
role Mr schik yes Mr Kingler yes Mr
Levine yes Mr Asel brener yes Mr King
yes Mr Turner yes chairman behal I also
vote Yes and the approval of the
satisfaction of the conditions is
asked thank you very much thanks
everybody for coming tonight to listen
to this too and uh for the applicant as
well for nice work and I think we should
thank the ARB as well for paying close
attention to these details and getting
involved to the extent that they are
getting involved and for the cooperation
of the ARB and the applicant thank you
thank
you all right the next case before the
board is application number bz ap-
24-12 involving 319 South
Columbia M lowerhouse is the applicant
the owners are Debbie and Mike Nicoli or
Nicoli depends on how you pronounce it I
guess the applicant is Seeking a
certificate of appropriateness for an
addition to the home and a variance for
the replacement uh of a garage to
include a second
floor Miss Lous will you raise your
right hand be sworn do you swear or
affirm the testimony give the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you very much Kathy could you give
us the board's uh review of this matter
this the not the board the staff's
review of this matter thank uh this
property is located in the R3 zoning
District minimum lot widths are 90 by
160 the lot in question is 80 by
250 first I do want to note that the
proposed addition to the house meets the
R3 zoning code and was approved by the
architecture review board on their
consent agenda but being those both
items were on the Bap application we're
going to add it in with our decision
okay okay so this slot being yeah 80 by
250 it's a total of 20,000 square feet
the code allows lots that are 14,400
square feet or greater to have an
accessory structure with a maximum
building footprint of 720 the maximum
height is 20 the proposed detach garage
is 716 Square ft and 19t 11 12 in in
height so it meets the size and the
height limits the garage is designed
with the second floor and a small Dormer
the fact that the Dormer is in line with
the wall below was not a designed
concern for the ARB review and was also
recommended for approval for certificate
of appropriateness to the B zap on a
consent agenda uh the limit on the
second floor space exceeds 50% square
foot limit by
5.8% the size of the garage is not out
of character for there are three zoning
district there are second floor Windows
located in the Gable of the roof and on
the Dormers all of the windows in the
second floor face either the house or
the rear property line it appears that
the existing garage also has second
floor Windows the one that they're
planning to demolish uh the location of
the garage is 3 feet off the north side
property line and is 46 feet 8 Ines from
the rear property line it meets the setc
requirements for the accessory structure
and further meets the rear yard setback
requirement for a principal structure
which is 40 ft
uh if if the board I do include the
variance questions that Amy's answered
in their application within my staff
report um if the board finds it appropr
to Grant a variance they may require any
necessary conditions to address the
concerns and one of the variances which
was a design criteria Karen and I were
looking at it and we're questioning it
whether to allow a dorm or it has to be
in line or two feet back from the wall
immediate below however in this case the
the window is sitting back away from the
roof Edge it it doesn't look odd so we
were weren't sure if that was a that was
really the
intent or not but I can let we'll find
out
momentarily
okay Miss
Boer
okays are well
the ridge line is below oh sorry the
ridge line is below um the ridg line of
the of the primary they they intersect
one is below the other and that's
important um I can answer any questions
but the design is fine I think it's more
of an issue of the Z okay am you tell us
a little bit about what you're doing and
why you're doing it maybe you can answer
the mystery question
there uh yes the Dormer was intentional
um it it matches the Dormers that are on
the main house is she swor in yes okay
sorry um so if probably the photos Karen
um I don't have a front elevation of the
of drawn of the actual house um so
really the Dormer is an exact replica of
the front dormers on the house which are
quite nice um they're actually really
well done um and so that's why I chose
to use that style of Dormer if you know
if you push the Dormer back from the
wall it shortens the Dormer height and
then uh I looked at it and actually felt
like it looked quite awkward um
comparatively when you look at the house
as the garage as an accessory to the
house so that's the Dormer part the um
five the 5% on the second floor um
so I guess this is just a question for
my own knowledge um there's four
categories of stipulations for detach
garages based on the square footage of
the lot so when you move from the second
category to the third category there's
an increase allowed in the footprint of
the garage the height of the garage and
the eve height of the garage however the
area of the floor for the second
allowable second floor stays the same
but it's you can't really do that
because if you build a larger garage
just automatically the volume on the
second floor is going to be bigger does
that make
sense is that why you the answer Ro
volume is already there is that yes yeah
yes I didn't understand yeah so in order
like theoretically in order for me to
create less volume on the second floor
I'd have to lower the roof pitch but
then it wouldn't match the existing
house so that that's but that's also
what justifies why you went in that
direction yes exactly yes
so that's why the the 5% over
yeah other words that's a reason that uh
that a variance would be an appropriate
or not a variance but a uh I guess there
is a variance on this one too yeah
variance is appropriate in this
particular case it's a it's partially to
uh make sure the design is is is
excellent right and it and it actually
addresses finished accessory structure
Attic So if it was a storage sorry we
wouldn't even be here yeah at Le it
wasn't a glass of red wine something I
mean they're actually not planning to
finish it right now but the way the code
is written yeah it says potential finish
space if you have your knee walls at
four feet so you know when you when I do
my roof structure it's the space like
you said is is there the volume is there
mhm and Kathy and I just need to look at
that part of the code because I'm
thinking maybe we were thinking shed
Dormer when we wrote that maybe I'm not
sure but I
just fig out design issue because the
the existing dormers on the house that
Amy's matching are not typical but
they're beautiful they're different yeah
they're very interesting yeah so well
and I guess another question for my
clarification I'm I don't know if
Katherine can answer this or if Kathy
can answer it but I'm confused I guess
as to what the difference is between a
special permit required versus a
variance special permit is specific to
functional Dormers and that's on the
lower size or the smaller lots
13,999 and less if you have a special
permit for any of those functional
Dormers so if the special
permit Isn't So are the it's not
required I guess the
design that you lay out in the code is
required regardless of the Dormer even
if it doesn't need a special permit
correct okay and that's those are the
items that Karen's looking at in design
wise okay so we're allowing a a maybe a
bigger bigger structure but we're
putting limitations on what happens on
that second floor so you have a box on
top of a box right yes oh yes I I know
exactly what you're talking about okay
that helps me understand for future
reference
good all right um questions or comments
for members of the board
please all
right I don't see anybody in the
audience that's here to speak on this
particular topic is am I correct about
that yes thank you uh I couldn't assume
anything here but
that Kathy can we have findings of fact
conclusions of law regarding this matter
please okay the findings of fact and
decision of the board for application
number bz ap-24 D12 for property located
at 319 South
Columbia upon consideration of the
application propos variance and evidence
and testimony before it the board finds
that the applicant has proven the
criteria to Grant an area variance in
Mexico section 12 2611 C have been met
and a 5.8% variance from Mexico section
12 52.1 15a to allow the second floor
finished space of the proposed detach
garage to exceed the 50% limit of the
first floor
space and to allow a variance from 12521
15D to allow the Dormer
to be
approved as proposed and as recommended
by the architecture review board and
also include the addition to the house
as recommended by the architecture
review board
okay and can we vote on the certificate
of appropriateness and the variance at
the same time or do we need to vote
separately in your
opinion okay separate probably so let's
uh let's do the certificate of
appropriateness first
uh so this has to do with the addition
to the
home wow and the garage too right
well is the is the replacement of the
garage require a certificate of
appropriateness or a variance or both
both all right then so let's let's just
do the so if I read the variance
criteria for the garage can we just vote
on that first yeah we can do that yeah
that probably makes is more orderly
appropriate
yes okay so the findings OFA conclusion
of law regarding the variance for the uh
replacement garage to include a second
floor essentially and the
5.8% uh issue uh is what we are voting
on right now or what we are considering
and I would uh entertain a motion to
approve the applicant's request for a
variance for that
variance it two to allow the Dormer in
line with the wall
below right so we do one vote on those
variances yeah I think that makes more
sense as well if that's okay with the
board if so do I have a motion to
approve the uh findings of P conclusions
of law with regard to the variances so
move Kingler thank you Mr Kingler second
echel brener thank you Mr echel
brener Kathy please call the
role Mr Levine yes Mr Turner yes Mr
Kingler yes Mr King yes Mr eel Brer yes
Mr schik yes chairman behall I vote Yes
as well the variances are
granted the certificate of
appropriateness so the findings of fact
conclusions of law regarding certificate
appropriateness want to do an a separate
one here
yes take time
findings of fact and decision the board
for application number bz ap-2 24-12 for
3 319 South Columbia the board finds
after review of the application and
testimony before it that a certificate
of appropriateness as recommended by the
architecture review board for the detach
garage and one-story Edition to the
house be approved as
submitted okay is the reading acceptable
yes to the applicant thank you uh any
changes to from board members or
modifications if not I entertain a
motion to approve the findings of fact
conclusions law as read by Ms Rose so
move Kingler thank you second please
second as Brer thank you Mr Asel
brener Kathy please call the
rooll Mr echel brener yes Mr
schik yes yes Mr Kingler yes Mr Turner
yes Mr Levine yes Mr King yes chairman
beh I also vote Yes and the certificates
of appropriateness are also granted
thank
you all right on this new business there
were some and I want to be transparent
about this there were some emails sent
around uh that I don't know who received
them but I received one about the Dormer
Ridge being one foot below the ridge
line and all this stuff is is that
something that uh has been resolved you
can you coming and it's on Powell or
whever it is I forget where it is pal or
dale dale maybe yeah so there was a an
architect that was secured on a project
submitted it this was the garage that
was turning into a recck room detached
rec room so the architect is off the job
now the board when they approved it one
of the conditions is that the DOR was to
be a foot lower than the Ridge and that
was a recommendation from the
architecture review board and it was
accepted by this board so when they
submitted the plans and I'm reviewing it
I catch that I share it with C Karen and
she agrees it's doesn't meet that
condition we can't change the board's
conditions when there's a variance
involved so we've explained to the
applicant she needs to make
modifications I don't think she wants to
make them because she doesn't have that
same architect that designed those plans
originally so if it's going to cost more
to get the whole thing redrawn I don't
know so Karen I don't know if she's
comfortable working with her on a
modification but it's kind of beyond our
control is not be addressed bying on but
I'm will to do it but I would never AC
that
so so you're you're suggesting that and
I'm make sure I'm going get this
straight that what the applicant at one
time applicant she's no longer an
applicant I guess technically but uh
what was approved and what she wants to
do is architecturally better than what
was approved are you saying you like the
N9 Ines or presented that way or
originally and it was conditioned to be
changed to meet the code oh no what she
wants to do is make it me yeah oh she
wants to make it meat to Rich
so well Dormer Ridge height shall be at
least one foot below primary Ridge
height 12
5215 three so the the question was she
was uh distinguishing between two types
of
Dormers right she was saying the statute
could only apply to and I can't remember
which now
because
[Music]
okay
uh the house yes so when she got
technical with me I defer to Karen
because she's the design right Guru so
okay but she submitted the same plan
that went to the board that the board
approved with modifications she didn't
make the modifications so we can't sign
off on that okay
well a plumbing something in the way
orent issue I I would work with 12
you know differ from
theine
okay no she brought the same exact PL
she submitted to the board and there
were conditions I knew that so because I
attached the record of decision and I
wrote back and told her that I couldn't
let these go forward because they don't
meet the code changes that were required
in the recorded decisions the code
righto yes and she was asking for a
variance to that and the board did not
grant that they asked for it to be
modified the code standard is a foot
below that's what they're they're trying
to say there was there was apparently a
a request for OB variance to not meet
that standard which was denied so now
she's working trying to work with staff
to get them to
approve a standard different than the
code on a variance that was denied yeah
on on this theory that a
a Gable Dormer has a ridge a shed Dormer
does not have a ridge quote unquote
right that's kind of the the theory it's
same
thing
right just want to get technical but we
have we know what you expect
maybe the size of it didn't justify it
being up at the top how small it
was conjecture
they're just
staying but she's free
to modify her her design and come back
here
okay all right one more thing tonight
sorry please here Kathy uh I know I
texted you about this the other day I
just thought maybe it would be best sry
to put you on the spot but put it on the
record what's the status of 2606 spey
Park Road oh that was a a mess that I
discovered that didn't have a permit
and I'm not
sure it's it's gonna go before the SP
they've submitted a building permit
today which I can't do a thing with it
because it's a I guess it's a fountain I
wasn't sure what it was uh it's in a
sidey yard I call that accessory
structure in the sidey yard of a corner
lot there's other drawings on there
fences that are six feet in height I
know there's setback requirements for
six foot fences so we've shut the job
down and I'm trying to wrap my head
around what it is they're doing and
we'll probably see it soon yeah I really
hope that fountain comes out of the
right away oh it's in the RightWay well
I think directly adjacent to the
sidewalk I think it's like a maybe a
foot but there used to be a bunch of
trees there right yeah yeah yeah but
trying to catch those guys on site to
even get a hold of anybody what if it's
going to appear before us you should
probably not make a prejudgment without
without hearing the evidence just as a
general
proposition you're right well lawyer get
to death here again but you know uh any
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talk um you know I did check the Roberts
Ru Rules of Order and a motion to
adjourn does it does require a motion to
be made so I I thought you could do an
adjournment without a motion so do I can
I entertain a motion to adjourn the
meeting to adjourn second Clinger all in
favor I all opposed the meeting is
adjourned thank