order the August 2023 meeting of the
Bexley Board of zoning and planning
excuse me
Kathy will you um call the role of the
members present tonight please
I'm President also obviously all right
um did we have minutes from the prior
meeting circulators I think we had
minutes from the prior two meetings did
we not
that they get circulated I can't
remember when I read them I read so many
things a day
yes we approved them I think we were
caught up except for last one
okay oh because I was you were you were
gone I was gone that's right does any
does anybody have any comments or
deletions or additions to the minutes of
the July meeting I don't think there
were too many cases on the docket that
night
all right I don't hear any do I hear a
motion to approve the minutes of the
July meeting
motion to approve thank you is there a
second second thank you
all in favor say aye
all opposed the minutes of the prior
meeting are approved unanimously
we have an opportunity by Statute to
provide the public with the ability to
comment on the general business of the
board of zoning and planning
uh this doesn't involve making any
comments about any cases but it could be
common to commentary regarding the
operation of the board or the way it it
conducts business if there's anybody
here wish to make a public comment
regarding the board of zoning and
planning
I see no indication of such
we have
um
a couple of cases
I've been told that more people are here
for one particular case and that would
be case number four the application uh
number
bzap23-23 involving 2200 East Main
Street could you give us an idea of how
many of the folks here are here to speak
Pro or con that particular application
okay
what I what I'm uh worried about is
there are several cases afterwards and
regrettably we docket these cases in the
order in which they are received and so
we we don't like to really deviate too
much from that but what I would suggest
is if you are
here on cases involving 2753 Dale
261 North Drexel or 10 11 South
Remington
you know if you want to go home and feed
the dog and come back in about an hour
that might save you a little time
because I think it'll be a little bit
longer than an hour before your case
could possibly be heard
so
um I guess you're forewarned
and that's about the best I can do so
all right uh under is there any old
business before the board
new business the first case before the
board this evening is case bzap-23-16
involving 2529 East Broad Street
the applicant is Melissa Rodier and
she's also the owner of the property and
the applicant is seeking approval of a
special permit to allow a 42 inch high
ornamental fence in the front yard which
borders Broad Street
yes ma'am
okay
all right that's that's very good so the
next case let ma'am if you don't mind
I'm gonna take about a two minute recess
there from your case and call
application number
bzap-23-18 involving 2524 Bexley Park
uh and the applicant is Ryan Brothers
Landscaping
and the owners are David Kaplansky and
Monique cataman kadamian the request is
the applicant is seeking approval of a
special permit to allow a six foot high
fence along the side property line along
cassingham and we have several issues
which are we have and across the street
neighbor and a budding backyard neighbor
and a lawyer who represents one of the
owners among the five members of the
board tonight so it'll be very very
difficult to get a quorum and I don't
think there's any crucial timing
involved so I would ask the applicants
the representative whether uh it would
be acceptable to the applicants to table
this matter yes chairman all right
do we have a motion to table this matter
23
-18
I make a motion Turner thank you Mr
Turner second
thank you uh all in favor say aye aye
all opposed nay
the matter is tabled I appreciate it and
sorry you had to come down here for this
but no problem at all thank you might be
the best thing ever happened to you
all right back to your case I'm sorry to
interrupt it there but if you please
come forward
and if you'd state your name
um okay hear me
okay is it on is it green yes it's green
I think can you hear me yeah okay
um your name is what Melissa Rodier okay
Melissa would you raise your right hand
to be sworn do you swear or affirm that
any testimony you give to the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you very much okay hold on for one
second
Kathy can you give us a staff report on
this matter please
[Music]
and
without such fencing our wall shall be
distribution installations
okay
oh go ahead I'm sorry I didn't realize
that
the front you know it appears to be our
capacity side of the property however it
is submitted
there are other properties with existing
fences along our streets I'm having
landscape at the property line the
overhanging into the right it is a
reached out to our state events getting
results concerned about the head of a
planning space painting outside of the
fence I think it was not approach
University
environment and the property would be
more appealing as well sentences over
the past couple of months I've also had
an opportunity to meet with newly formed
the front yard of committee in the city
to establish standards for the type
structures and paintings that residents
have shown an interest to be having in
order to decide what should be allowed
and whether it's sure that these items
are perfectly installed to soften their
interface with the neighborhood our
landscape installations over the years
appeared well off the outside as opposed
to influencing it was a consensus set of
committee that in the front yard depends
is allowed it should be set back and
pretend to be from the front property
there is currently events in the area
the rear yard of this life episode
permit
I would suggest that attendance at that
from the Broad Street property might be
considered any landscape is private
further subject to review
all right
is ready what do you tell us a little
bit about what you want to do and why
you want to do it in that in the
locations that you wish yeah so um well
a little bit about like my family I live
in Bexley with my husband and I have two
boys ages four and almost two and we've
recently purchased this home about three
months ago and
we are proposing a fence and 42 inches
high ornamental fence to go around the
property and the reason we're proposing
this is safety concerns
um you know we want to be able to enjoy
the property and our kids to be able to
play outside we don't really have a big
backyard all we have is that and there
are two busy streets so um we want to be
able to do something nice uh we don't
want to do something that it doesn't
look nice we love the house and the
appeal and you know of the house so we
pretty much want to do something nice we
think that an aluminum ornamental fence
will do that
um so it is true that well I have to say
those safety concerns that we had when
we purchased the house
um were was really our kids running
towards the car
but our safety concerns have been
exacerbated after the accident that
happened on the 4th of July that some of
you know there was a car coming from
Cassidy
um Crossing broad that he'd crashed
against the car
hit the curb and flew into our our
property
um it crashed against the kitchen of her
home it destroyed the kitchen my husband
was inside
because I'm shaking on my husband was
inside he was
he doesn't have a recollection but he
was moved from one point where he was
washing delicious further back the only
reason that literally my husband didn't
die was because the car got stuck in
between one big tree that we have there
and the stone and that prevented
anything further to happen to a person
that was driving that van and my husband
so we have kids you know playing there
and we've never when we bought the house
we never entertained that as a
possibility you what you think is your
kids are going to run right towards the
car so now we have that kind of issue in
the back of our heads and we're dealing
with the aftermath of this accident
right we still have the kitchen is
destroyed we have two claims against
insurance we only closed that Hall
um and you know a fence there will give
us
less anxiety than we have right now and
some would afford some protection it is
true that we um bought the house with
constructive uh notice that there was
two busy streets there right sure but
it's also true that we when we bought
the house we observed the neighboring
houses all of which have fences like the
ones or most of them I have to say have
fences like the ones we are proposing
and have like our variety and tall trees
like the ones that we're proposing in
fact uh those conditions already exist
on the north side of the intersection
the two houses across they already have
these tall huge trees the house next to
us has a big big hatch the house
following that house which is in the
corner uh which is in the corner of
Broad and Bully house number
2523 have the exact same fence we want
to build and in fact we took inspiration
from that house from that fence and that
landscape to replicate on our corner and
we contacted the same contractor first
rule of fencing which they will be doing
the work and replicating the same
conditions like I said we don't want to
do anything new or anything you know
that has not been done before I think
they are really genuine safety concerns
there and we would like to be able to
enjoy the property sure
did you um you hear the recommendation
of the staff that there'd be a 10 foot
set back from
these from the I assume from the Broad
Street Broad Street itself or from the
sidewalk so from Broad Street property
line oh from the property line so I
don't know if 10 feet we could do
because there is a big tree and I think
the 10 feet will be in the middle of the
tree
okay so there there's the bed and then
in the middle of that bed if you go to
that direction to go that's that tree
there
so we could do
in front of the tree is that the tree
you're talking about right there no that
was not the tree that saved us was the
tree that saved what was the other side
the side of Cassidy okay the side of
Cassie is the tree and so we could do in
front of the tree
and would you be willing to do in front
of the tree yeah
okay
is there anybody in the audience now I
should warn everybody that there are
some time limitations about all this the
time limitations that are in the rules
that we uh try to follow is 10 minutes
for the person presenting the case
three minutes for all opponents three
minutes for all supporters
and then another five minutes for the
supporter for the applicant to make a
rebuttal uh or to present uh any
responses to the issues that are raised
so we also have then the board can ask
questions and and of course there's no
time limit on the board we made the
rules so you know how that goes
um but um
the in in this case is there anybody
that is here to speak Pro or con this
application if so there's so many people
here if you're out there in the hallway
just wave your hands and I'll see it but
I don't see any indication members of
the board do you have questions or
comments yeah you have a quick question
Kathy do you know exactly where the
right-of-way line is because I know the
right-of-way line on Cassidy is the West
curve of Cassidy the right-of-way line
is actually about 10 feet it's because
it's actually on the other side of the
sidewalks the Cassidy side of this
property where the defense is proposed
is not an issue it's only what's north
of the house between the house yeah but
I'm asking that's what I'm asking the
bra because I don't want to say I don't
want to say 10 feet back from the
setback and then all of a sudden the
setbacks 10 feet already from the
sidewalks now a property line goes all
the way to the sidewalk it goes the
property lines I will essentially will
giving up that part of my property to
the city okay
ah
you're not giving it up to the city
because you still have to mow the lawn
there right oh yeah
I'm not trying to protect the city
necessarily but I just want to make sure
that you're what you're you're saying is
is precise very
very sidewalk
well you're around five feet I'm not
sure but I could certainly look that up
before the fence is installed yeah
because make sure they've got that I
live like seven houses down and the city
put a tree probably
it's well I know it's four mower widths
inside of the sidewalk and that's
considered city property so
um I just want to make sure you're not
putting on the city property is is the
issues you will make sure of that yeah
but but the Broad Street side I believe
that's only like a
two foot setback off of the sidewalk
okay and that's a little more concerning
because then all that planting would be
overhanging the sidewalks
so in in the pictures
um that you have the the pink uh Flags
is that are they put in at the same
distance as the drawing
is that what
yeah so they they were the pink they
marked the property line so we have so
those that's the property line okay the
pink flux okay
that's helpful thank you
all right any
that's actually showing six feet from
the sidewalk along the Cassidy side of
the property yeah which is what
Mr Turner was saying right are there any
comments from members of the board about
the
City staff's recommendation or the
response of the of the applicants wrote
here about putting it putting the fence
in a spot that's uh just in front of the
tree obviously I don't think anybody
wants them to cut the big tree down that
doesn't make any sense so
um any
thoughts about that if I'd be fine with
just putting it in as close to the tree
or that makes sense that's out there I
just want to make a comment that it's
very unfortunate that you have the car
at your house and everything but a fence
is not going to stop a car
going at a decent rate of speed going
into your front yard and possibly
hitting your house again so I just I
know it probably it's just a it's
another barrier and depending on how
it's hit it could certainly send the
vehicle down but an aluminum fence that
has probably a foot of concrete holding
it in the ground it's it's not going to
be yeah so what do we think it's and so
we think
it would prevent my kids from running to
the cars it would be an extra barrier
and you know you never know I mean I
hope this never happens again but you
never know
um from the our experience the reason
that my husband really like we are all
fine it's because that tree stopped the
car so you know
yeah well you're lucky right exactly
all right I have one quick oh please
um I know there's a house on because I
walk by it every day on Roosevelt and
Broad that has what I'm imagining to be
a similar situation where it's you know
it's like the front yard situated and I
I'm wondering if that's the same type of
landscape and fence we're talking about
um I don't have a landscape plan
but the fence is probably very similar
and in that situation that property has
literally no backyard because the
parking is exiting into the the fence is
exactly the same whether we're proposing
and they there is some landscaping and I
thought I attached Landscaping plan so
it's simple okay so there is some
Landscaping there and the Landscaping
that we are proposing it's um the
Landscaping
like the house on bullet and broadcast
or the house uh on Stanberry and
Broadcast House number 17 because I
think those fences in the landscape it's
beautiful and I would like my house to
look beautiful too right so we're trying
to replicate
um you know fences and Landscaping that
will look nice appropriate and nice show
so I get so is that a factor we take
into consideration whether they have a
backyard or a small backyard I mean it's
I mean is that what we something to
consider as a case-by-case basis okay
yeah no I understand but we do have a
freyard study group that's in process
I'm trying to determine some kind of an
ordinance for this for for
um prior for fences on Corner lots and
that's one of the factors we're
considering is that whether they have a
usable backyard or not plus the fact
that these type of fences are required
to have 50 capacity that it doesn't have
to be heavily landscaped because you're
not trying to screen a wall in this case
sure I was just curious thank you all
right are there any more questions or
comments from members of the board
if not uh
could we have findings of fact
conclusions of law
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
bzap-23-16 for property located at 25 29
East Broad Street
upon consideration of the application
proposed variance and evidence and
testimony before the board finds the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to Grant an area of variance in Mexico
section 1226 11c have been met and a
special permit
in accordance with Mexico section
1264.02 c to allow front yard fence
shall be granted with the following
condition one that the fence be set back
eight to ten feet working around the
existing tree and City staff
and two that a landscape plan be
reviewed by the landscape consultant
all right I was going to suggest both
those things so you beat me to the punch
uh
are you okay with that rendition of the
findings yeah just need to understand so
how do I uh proceed with the Landscaping
review that you're talking about we've
got a consultant and I'll make sure that
she looks at this and she she'll reach
out to you for questions she'll call you
no okay
all right it has to pass first before
you get to the landscape consultant but
uh do I hear a motion to approve the
findings of fact and conclusions of law
motion to approve is there a second
second thank you thank you Kathy please
call the roll
call and Turner
uh Mr Hall
yes
Turner yes Miss Dorne yes
Mr Schick yes and chairman B Hall
my vote doesn't matter because but I
vote Yes as well your special permit is
granted good luck with your progress and
I'm glad everything ended up okay with
your thank you so much thank you thank
you all thank you
all right the second case has been table
so we're to the third case case bzap
23-22 involving 199 South Ardmore
the applicant is in and the owner is
Mitch freeze
the request is uh
that the owner is Seeking a special
permit for functional Dormer in a new
attached garage
sir are you the one and only Mitch
freeze I am the one in our
would you raise your right hand and be
sworn
do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give this
evening to the board will be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth I do thank you very much
Kathy are you ready to give us a staff
report on this case please I am thank
you
Mexico section 125215
0.15 accessory uses and structures limit
the accessory structures to 624 square
feet for lots that are 6 000 to
1399 999 square feet the property in
question is 7 500 square feet and has an
existing 360 square foot which is 20 by
18 garage code allows 624. the owner
would like to replace the garage with a
slightly larger garage 616 feet which is
below what's allowed
that has a second floor Dormer being all
of the other code requirements will be
met the applicant is Seeking a special
permit to allow a functioning Dormer and
also a certificate of appropriateness
this went to the architecture review
board for design review and received a
recommendation to the zoning board for a
certificate of appropriateness with the
condition that the details be refined to
match the house there was mentioned that
the applicant may consider North Side
yard setback which is three feet however
the code does not require additional
setbacks unless the Dormer is outward
facing the proposed Dormer faces the
interior of the applicant's yard the
eaves modifications have since been made
and added to this application if the
board finds it appropriate to Grant a
special permit
staff has no further conditions but will
defer to Karen on any further design
details she finds necessary
and by Karen you mean Karen says to my
left yes yes the one and only Karen who
has a official Title Here of some sort
design consultant design consultant
thanks very much all right
Mr Reese tell us a little bit about why
you want to do this and why we should
Grant you a special permit
uh we are replacing a dysfunctional
garage with a functional garage and then
the room above is the special permit
request so that I can actually move my
office out of the basement into the
garage
I've been as short of
short and sweet okay that was very short
and very much appreciated all right
um
Kathy just one question this this
really doesn't require any variances
does it
it just requires a special permit
is there anybody in the audience that is
here for or against this particular
application please raise your hand
and I see nobody I'm a little short but
I don't see any hands okay
okay
all the statutory criteria all right
remember the board any questions or
comments or
issues here
all right with that Kathy could I have
the findings of fact conclusions of Law
related to this application please
decision
of the board for application number
bzap-23-22 for property located at 199
South Ardmore upon consideration of the
application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before the board
finds the applicant has proven that the
criteria to Grant area variants in
Mexico section 12 2611 C have been met
and a special permit
in accordance with Mexico section
1252.15
shall be granted for a new garage with a
functional Dormer as modified since the
ARB meeting
okay uh should I read the certificate of
appropriateness yeah let's do that too
yeah board further finds that the
certificate of a permanentness should be
issued for the new garage at 199 South
Ardmore as recommended by the
architecture review board
right okay
freeze you hear all that you hear
anything in there that was
subjectionable to you in terms of what
you're asking us to vote on no sir all
right thank you very much
any member of the board have any
comments about the findings effect and
the decision
if not do I hear a motion to approve the
finding the facts and decision as was
iterated by Ms Rose
thank you Mr Schick
do I have a second second
thank you Ms Dorne
Kathy please call the roll Mr Schick yes
Miss Thorne yes Mr Hall
yes
chairman B Hall
I vote Yes as well I'm sorry Mr Turner
yes I apologize
I was wondering maybe that you would
recuse yourself and I was not aware of
it all right
the special permit is granted specific
appropriateness is also granted good
luck with your project thank you thank
you
hey Kathy before we start the next one
my thing is on low battery
we have a charger okay
all right the next case on the docket
while we're doing some technical things
here
is application bzap 23-23 that we
mentioned earlier involving 2200 East
Main Street the applicant is Ryan
Pearson the owner of the properties is
Continental real estate companies the
request is
to seek preliminary review and allow
Demolition and Redevelopment of the
vacant Trinity Lutheran apartment
structures at 2160 2188 28 2186 East
Main
which are three different parcel numbers
which I won't read
to save us all some time and also a
special permit and conditional use for a
new five-story building with housing
alternatives
and a variance for a new six-story
mixed-use building to provide additional
housing restaurant retail and offices
who is here on behalf of the applicant
Mr Cass come on up here
would you raise your right hand to be
sworn do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give to the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you sir Kathy why don't you uh
give us or or no
yeah oh
we have a couple other folks that we'll
be testifying on behalf of the uh the
applicant yeah sure you need to read
names address I need your name uh Ryan
Pearson gauge group 330 West Spring
Street 43215. all right Ryan
Jason Hawk stock Continental Real Estate
150 East Broad Street
all right
Scott Eisler with ph 7 Architects um 448
uh West Nationwide Boulevard all right
well you three gentlemen Raise Your
Right hands please
do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give this evening about
this particular application will be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth
thank you very much
Kathy do you want to start or we're
going to have Ryan uh Jason do it Jason
give us a little staff report this is
more more uh
complex in the average case
thank you oh I can't get a lot there we
go that one just wasn't working there we
go I'm a really loud person usually so
it's the opposite problem
um
what we're doing tonight is the
beginning of a process and what we have
asked the applicant to do and they have
agreed is to come in tonight for a
conceptual review those of you on the
board understand what that means and I'm
going to explain it to everyone in the
audience also understands a conceptual
review means that there is no intention
that any action will be taken tonight so
if you're here worried that we're about
to do something you can be right you can
rest assured that is not the case the
um the city of Baxley has a number of
boards that interact with each other the
bees app we are seeing tonight the
Border zoning and planning is the board
that makes final decisions on complex
cases such as this particularly along
our Main Street commercial Corridor that
being said there are other boards which
have very important contributions to
processes in particular processes where
we're doing a a really large site
development that is unusual in the city
of Bexley in some cities this wouldn't
be considered large here in Bexley this
is one of the largest sites we have
along our Main Street and we always look
very carefully at what happens along the
corridor and in this case we'll be doing
the same thing so the Architectural
Review Board will be hearing this at
their next regularly scheduled meeting
next month and the tree and public
garden commission will also be
contributing to this overall review
process they each have different
charges the Architectural Review Board
will not surprise you that they look at
architecture the tree and public garden
commission primarily focuses on public
spaces and the way that open space and
Landscaping function in the in the
context of the overall project what the
bordazonian planning is charged to do is
look at the things that we've mentioned
tonight which have to do with the
overall site development the overall
massing of the building the way it meets
the zoning code and there are a couple
other two things in this case which I
want to mention which are a little
particular so there's a lot of lingo
when it comes to doing a zoning case so
if you don't understand anything thing
just ask us and we're happy to explain
it zoning is the basic underlying set of
rules that guide all of our development
we also have a set of design guidelines
for Main Street and they've served us
well for about 20 years that being said
a few years ago when we did a zoning
code update we pulled some of those
those guidelines into our code so now we
have a set of what we call design
standards that means if the applicant
wants to vary from any of those
standards they would have to get a
variance
what those do is try to guide
development to be in keeping with what
we're we are as a community trying to
achieve based on our design standards
along Main Street that typically is a
multi-story mixed-use building with some
sort of activated space along the Main
Street Corridor that could be
restaurants could be retail it could be
office it could be a variety of things
and we've we're also encouraging a mix
of residential in that as well in order
to try to address a number of issues one
of which is the ability for different
housing types Aging in place which is
just a planner way to say you have a
place to live no matter how old you get
and you can find a different kind of
unit if you don't necessarily want a
single family home and you can remain in
the community those are all sort of
things baked into the larger code and
design guidelines and that's one way we
review it the second thing that this
this is asking for is what we call a
special permit we have a what we call
buy right and Zoning means the zoning
has a set of categories that if you meet
those zoning categories are allowed to
do them
we have a buy right of three stories and
we have what we call a special permit up
to five stories
um one thing that has changed since the
initial announcement went out about this
project is the applicant has resubmitted
a new site plan so they are no longer
requesting a six-story building but a
five-story building which falls into our
special permit category you have the
access certainly if you want to go look
at the code we also have we'll talk
about that a little bit tonight there's
a set of criteria that the bees app will
have to consider to determine if this
project meets those to say it is okay to
have five stories then there's a third
thing which is more rigorous called the
variance and the variance is when the
applicant wants to deviate from our code
the one thing I will tell you is in
urban made Corridor developments there's
almost always some kind of variance
um I happen to be the chairman of the
Italian Village commission and we give a
lot of variances because the code in
Columbus is very clunky luckily we have
a much more streamlined code here in
Bexley so we don't anticipate a lot of
variances but we do anticipate some and
while we understand that sounds like
varying from the code is a strange thing
and a complex Redevelopment project
that's usually pretty typical yet it is
up to this board which serves as a
quasi-judicial board and Catherine can
explain what that means in more detail
than I can they basically have the
ability to vary from the code and any
applicant has the right to ask for those
variances so that's sort of a big
picture of what we're doing and I want
to go back and reassure you that tonight
no decisions will be made tonight we
thought it was very important for the
applicant to come forward because it's a
significant project for Bexley and we
want the bzap to have the opportunity to
comment and tell the applicant directly
what they're thinking and to hear
directly from you what you're thinking
um a few things that I want to point out
today that I think are are pretty
important since this is a conceptual
review we anticipate there will be
changes that will take place so what
we're not going to do today is get into
the the nitty-gritty details of does it
meet the criteria for this variance does
it meet all the specific criteria for
this this permit what we are going to
talk about is what do you think of the
project in general both as a public and
as the bees app
um I prepared a numerous page staff
report and as you'll see in that staff
report much of it says TBD the reason it
says TBT TBD is because the final
architecture has to go to the
architecture review board the public
space has to go through that other
process and another thing that the mayor
asked me to specifically point out one
thing you'll notice in this process and
this project as proposed is there's an
idea that we would realign the way that
this parking lot right outside works and
tie into the overall project there is a
meeting set up next week with the cic
and the applicant to start to talk about
that
um we want to reiterate as an
Administration we are interested in
being able to share the opportunity to
get more public parking and cross access
easements into this site that being said
this particular design of the parking
lot
the the administration and either
endorses nor is against this design they
just haven't considered it yet so the
mayor will be meeting with the applicant
next week to specifically talk about
what we would want if there was changes
to our particular parking lot in order
to accommodate that so that's kind of a
long Preamble that I usually don't give
but I want to make sure everybody
understands Where We Are Tonight the
couple things I do want to point out
again there's a long staff Report with a
lot of things that say TBD in there but
there are a couple specific issues that
I would guide the visap to specifically
think about consider tonight that would
be greatly
um an asset to both the applicant moving
forward and the staff in helping guide
the applicant moving forward to meet the
the criteria of our city uh and our
codes one is the manner in which the
building addresses the Main Street
Corridor how do you feel about that as
you know our code requires that
buildings are fairly close to the
corridor we don't allow parking to be in
front of buildings nor do we allow
driveway or or vehicular access we're
trying to encourage a
pedestrian-oriented
multi-use activated space how do you
feel about that do you feel it is
um an appropriate amount of space
appropriately cited those kind of issues
similarly how do you feel about the
location size and area of public spaces
that take place in and around this
building uh third is how do you feel
about the interface with adjacent
properties particularly a single family
to the north one of the criteria that we
have for allowing the special permit is
how that interfaces with adjacent uses
and I'll talk about that in just a
second overall considerations including
building masting and then whatever
additional information you might need to
evaluate the requests both for the
special permit and anything else going
forward one of the things we hear a lot
about when we have these cases is how do
cars work and we understand that while
we're trying to create a
pedestrian-oriented activated
environment or also our cars we're still
in a world where we have cars the
applicant is preparing a traffic study
we don't have that yet and that's okay
because we're at the conceptual stage
but a few things I do want to mention is
that at this current stage what they're
produ what there are um proposing is to
eliminate one of the curb cuts that
takes place in the current lot that's
right out next to us and move that down
to the other side of the building
um our code and as staff we try to
discourage additional curb cuts on Main
Street unless they're necessary we think
there is a legitimate argument here that
we're really just shifting a curb cut
down and that would probably help push a
lot of the access directly to Main
Street that being said we won't know
that for sure until the applicant comes
back with their traffic study the other
thing that we highly encourage as uh
Administration as a staff is cross
access easements throughout adjacent
sites along Main Street we started to do
that I think it's been really successful
tonight there were no parking spots here
because we have a very large crowd so I
was able to Park right next door in the
Giant Eagle lot and that was the by
Design we want all these lots to
function seamlessly and together and the
applicant can describe how they'll be
able to provide access for public spaces
on their lot that when this space is
overfilled due to capacity issues we can
move seamlessly back and forth so we
think that's a really important thing
that being said a lot of this will be
determined in the traffic study the
other thing is that currently they show
over 320 parking spaces on the site
which is considerable it's considerable
as basis that being said based on our
current code that would not be the
number that is required in the code one
of the things that we're very interested
in is figure out ways to do shared
parking we do have Provisions for that
in the code so that we're not over
building parking and I think again
looking at how we started to streamline
these sites next to each other with
cross access easements gives us an
indication that it has been working
pretty well that being said you'll have
to determine using the variance criteria
if that's appropriate but what we didn't
do tonight was get into the specific
numbers because we know it's going to
change and it's not really that much use
in our idea to get into the nitty-gritty
of that it's more about just giving you
the general sense of how that works so
those are are the big issues that we
want to talk about tonight and if you do
decide you would like to get uh more
into the the aspects of that special
permit just to understand what that's
about uh I do have that on page six of
the staff report it's section 1254-14 of
our code there are five criteria and I'm
just going to quickly read them just so
everybody in the in the in the crowd
understands without having to call up
our code on their phones
um basically what we're doing is
thinking about whether or not five five
stories is appropriate based on the
following five considerations the extent
to which the proposed property and site
design conform to the intent of the Main
Street design guidelines which you're
very familiar with the extent to which
the proposed development represents
exceptional architecture and site design
we can talk about the site design we can
talk about the architecture today that
being said really Karen's going to take
uh that Mantle when the Architectural
Review Board dives into this much more
aggressively so we would suggest with so
many people here and with so many issues
that we don't get too much into the
architecture today because we are early
in this process the third is the extent
to which design helps to mitigate
substantial impacts upon adjacent
single-family residential which is
directly to the rear consider that
um actually I think there are six things
not five compatibility of architecture
and site design to the surrounding uses
and again site design is really for us
today the extent to which the
development creates meaningful
pedestrian and public amenity spaces and
finally the extent to which development
provides public parking so I've given a
longer intro than I wanted to that being
said I just want to make sure the level
set that we all know what's happening so
with that I'll stop I'll turn it over to
you commissioner chairman if you have
any other questions for me I'm happy to
answer I have questions that you and and
we have here also tonight Catherine
Cunningham who is the legal uh advisor
to the board and to the city and my
questions for the two of you are are we
you know I mean everybody that reads
about all this stuff are we here to
discuss any tax issues like tiffs tax
incentives uh tax abatement
is that a topic of conversation this
evening that is not a topic of
conversation
for a couple of reasons one is it's not
within the purview of this board that's
the city council issue it never comes
before this board and this board makes
no recommendations on that so it is not
anything that you have the jurisdiction
or authority to consider or the
knowledge or the knowledge
or the authority to approve okay that's
all a city council matter and to the
extent that that as Jason was referring
there are lots of boards and commissions
this is going to be a well-vetted
uh process to the extent that you stay
in your lane and don't bleed over into
other authorities it's it's a much
smoother process for everyone involved
your feedback is important because you
you are the final decision maker on many
things but if it's outside you know you
you work with ARB and their
recommendations all of the time you can
delegate to them you can take it back
from them right but just staying in in
sort of the main things and I think
starting with the big picture and paring
down will serve everybody but all right
it's not within your jurisdiction all
right my other questions are
you know we've had several cases in the
past where there's been a lot of public
interest and they involve the issue of
public uh affordable housing not public
housing affordable housing is affordable
housing a topic of conversation for this
evening or not it is not okay this I
mean the it's the use the the
SE what's happening here are permitted
uses of designing classification so
we're talking about how the property is
used not who is using the property
absolutely right okay and then the last
question I have is I'm trying to answer
some questions that you might all have
too because I'm like you I'm reading and
I'm thinking about things
um does this have any
does tonight's discussion uh involve any
discussion of how this impacts the
schools locally or not is that an issue
that is within the purview of this board
or not that is typically not within the
purview of this board again
um development and permitted uses bring
impact consequences naturally Martyrs
more people less cars less people
depending on what it is commercial
residential
um those are natural consequences of
every development the issues are what is
permitted and what is not permitted in
the zoning classification everything
that's proposed here in terms of use is
permitted so they would be natural
consequences if the school board wanted
to get involved that would normally be
an involvement between the school board
and the developer and or the school
board and city council may have
conversations about it but again that's
not in the purview of this board to make
any determination on thank you Catherine
so you know Jason used a couple acronyms
and some of you are not familiar because
he works in the zoning area every single
day of his life and their second nature
to him but he used the term for as an
example bzap Beez app stands for what
this board is the board of zoning and
planning and it's such a mouthful that
we a lot of the people that are involved
say bizap the other
um an acronym you use was cic which is
the community Investment corporation
right Improvement Corporation thank you
there you go see so the community
Improvement Corporation also something
that we're not part of or involved with
uh as well correct
that's correct and again that's another
city council and and Community
Improvement corporate or cic issue the
community Improvement Corp is a separate
Corporation it's a non-profit it is the
development arm of the City by
designation of ordinance so they do
operate under State Statute and as a
separate entity but there are members of
the city who are on that board and it is
uh for the development of the community
that's what it is a non-profit cic all
right
and then the last thing I want to do try
to help uh
keep things moving tonight is can you
give us some facts about what is there
now
and maybe Kathy you're the person who
best do this I don't know but what is in
this location now we all know that it's
apartments and stuff but what is how
many what's the parking what's what's
the story back there
I'm not sure on the parking counts uh
that being said it's about 60 units and
it had been historically used for uh
family housing for the Trinity Lutheran
Seminary so I mean I think you could
kind of describe it if you didn't know
that as as lower density
um aging condos I guess is the best way
I would describe it even though really
they haven't ever served as individual
ownership it's more of an apartment
situation that being said over the last
several years uh that has not been the
case and there has been housing in there
provided for uh Columbus State students
in a family housing situation and that
would you know transition away from that
use there's been an understanding to to
our understanding and I'm speaking for
uh you know somebody as somebody who
does it on the property but our
understanding is that since Trinity
stopped using it there's been
consideration
about converting this to a development
site and now in the last year that has
obviously come to fruition
um as a city we didn't have any we we
didn't have anything to do with choosing
the the um the buyer or who uh was was
part of this development process what we
did do is we did provide guidance to
Capital
about what the zoning would allow here
and what would it be in excess of the
zoning uh so that they knew so they
could guide their potential applicants
and their potential buyers in order to
sort of frame it as you would do with
any citizen eventually if they called
you and asked you for guidance on what
the zoning rules and regulations and
laws are okay
so
um before we give the applicant the
first chancer you know I I uh request
that you know it's not much point we
don't have any for instance tax
jurisdiction we don't have any authority
over taxing there's not much point in
making comments to us about tiffs or tax
abatement because it's just not a topic
that we're ever going to vote on up here
and so I'd like to try to keep it to you
know how does it affect the Main Street
Corridor how does the location size and
placement of a fairly substantial
building here uh work in this community
and what does your general feel about
what the applicant is asking for so to
start us off
Miss Cass who would like to take the
lead on your team
please come on up and and give us a
rendition of what your uh why you jumped
into this this is a large project and
what you're thinking about doing yeah
um thank you about so um
I started a company called cono real
estate about 50 years ago
is our recount the last 20 some years 30
years have been mostly what I would call
Redevelopment
which means we sell them uh by a
Greenfield you know in a distant suburb
and do that recently closest to you here
would be at Broad and Hamilton in
Whitehall we bought a dangerous
Apartment project there from the city of
Whitehall and redid it as a 360 unit
Apartment project uh pretty nice with
the Old Bag of Nails in it yeah right
some retail on the Hamilton roadside
um
Capital University
um this was apartments for Seminary
students mostly Adult Family Seminary
students with some family
I don't know when it was built my guess
is
um I I moved to Bexley in 1948
um and at the time the only kindergarten
was Montrose and that's where I went
um they opened up Maryland Avenue in in
1950 and and had first grade a casket
and went there this has been here as
long as I remember it might be 50 60
years old I don't really know not
dissimilar from um other
um religious institutions
um business isn't as good as it used to
be at the seminarians today they don't
need housing for 50. and a lot of their
study now is on the internet
um and they can stay on the south side
of Main Street when they're here to do
the whatever they're doing
and Capital University bought this
property and I think the Seminary
program
um some years ago and began planning to
sell this
um you all hear and Biza that will be at
the heart of this in the next 10 years
are going to look at a lot of other
things that capital is going to be doing
okay and we're involved with them in in
some guidance this one we were one of
nine people that submitted proposals I
was kind of aggravated at the time
because I asked them to buy it without
the proposals and instead they sent out
a RFP a request for proposal and used
our Upper Arlington projects as an
example okay but either way we were
selected for the project it's a little
less than three acres and it will be
public record we're buying the site for
seven and a half million dollars so
um that would be it at the high end
um two and a half million an acre of
what property anywhere in central Ohio
today would would uh would be going for
um
the uh capital is in need of selling
this and doing other things with their
property
um to create income and to change the
profile of of the University
um and they're doing a a good job of it
it's a very challenging site aside from
the fact we're challenged by neighbors
behind with single family
um is this a bad one I'm not sure but
they're not picking up that great so I
figured two's better than one oh boy
will I be repeating myself
I do that you know we'll be sure to tell
you that yeah thank you
um
so it's a challenging site for uh of
various reasons now the the good news
there's also some really good luck with
it okay
um the homes behind it I think there's
four
um I don't know anyone that lives there
um there's huge trees
um some deciduous but many of them uh
Pines that that are covering up a bigger
biggest part of these buildings that
will be built early on Jason asked us to
move our building farther south
um which we did
um so that was was pretty good
um there's an easement right now active
going one way
um you can go both ways but it's only
wide enough to go one way at a time to
get to Bryden Road you should know that
at a point in time
um two years ago Capital was still
parking uh there are people there about
75 cars on a daily basis they stop that
and moved them to another part of of uh
of Campus
um
there's an easement to Parkview that's
of great concern to Mr gross and the
residents at at the Alexander
um and we've been working with them
we've probably had a dozen meetings
between the city and and the schools
um and and the neighbors
um as it relates to the Alexander
um at the cic as it relates to the
parking and you have a meeting next week
on on on that
um the so the other thing is right now
um we're anxious to build the building
as the the codes provide all the way to
the street with some outside seating
um we're we're uh have a verbal uh
commitment from Cameron Mitchell to do a
Hudson 29 there you might have heard
that a rumor or not but it's true and
I've done about 10 restaurants for him
over the last 25 years
um and we're working with a couple other
users for the balance of the retail that
is about 4 000 more feet there's about
10 11 000 feet I think a retail is that
right so yeah uh the second floor has 12
000 feet of office
um and uh we're we're uh in our
conversations with the schools about the
Tiff okay by the way there's no tax
abatement involved here okay in our
conversations with the schools about the
Tiff they have asked us would we be
willing to move their administrative
offices to the second floor in total to
create six more classrooms in the high
school which we're giving them first
consideration if they can work that out
that's what will be done
um
tax increment financing so the site
today
has zero tax dollars to the um city or
schools or County because it's a
religious institution okay
um
when we move uh people into the
apartments
um we're estimating their payroll uh
their their income of those residents
will be around 20 million dollars the
Bexley schools as you all know have a
three-quarter of a percent income tax on
all income so all of a sudden that
becomes a big source of income in
addition to the pilot payment that we
would give them payment in lieu of taxes
and then we use tax dollars to build the
garage that's basically how you get
garages built we're we've finished an
859 car garage on Lane Avenue at the
Gateway project and a 559 car garage at
the Kingsdale project
um and this this is how we do it we have
two similar uh projects like this going
on in in Pittsburgh as well so it's just
something as a redeveloper you do
because you're redeveloping Urban sites
that are tight on land and you don't
have much alternative now in terms of
the problematic things that we have to
deal with here
um
that some of you that are nearby might
notice but it's not really noticeable
unless you're in the on the property
um the South
east corner of the property the closest
to your parking lot by the right by the
right out exit of your parking lot that
land is nine feet higher than the North
West portion is close to the Alexander
near the back of the property really
nine feet different so this parking deck
gets partially dug out and the lower
level is part of it much of it
underground and then a level above that
and then a debt did I say that wrong
well
if you can go back to the site plan and
once again state your name just so the
Ryan Pearson The Edge group Lane planner
um it's plus or minus five feet of fall
across the base of the site but the
parking lot for Bexley square is roughly
about 10 feet above the parking level of
you know Bexley Gateway and what I was
referring to was the the right there
like you told me was nine feet higher
than the piece on the upper left
well it's roughly about nine feet ten
feet higher this way all the way but
okay so transition it causes a problem
not the least of which is moving off
about 500 000 uh dollars worth of dirt
okay
um so that's problem number one secondly
um those buildings may enter this way in
that way
and so does the sewer going from north
to south
okay so the whole sewer has to be redone
um now on that particular instance we're
applying
um for both Demolition and moving the
sewer it's a city of Baxley sewer by the
way
um moving uh that and building the
proper new sewer going through the site
uh Not underneath our buildings which we
we could not get mortgages for if it if
it did replying to the Department of uh
development state of Ohio that funds
these kind of things through a new
appropriation at the July uh uh bienum
budget and it gets funneled through the
county I was on the phone today with
with uh Erica Crowley a county
commissioner she's expecting to see this
thing as it as it moves through the
process
um and and we hope to be able to get uh
funds
um from that this is a very expensive
project in total it's 73 million five
hundred thousand based on our today's
budgeting okay
um
so the problem with what I'm telling you
is the site's very tight and I have and
we know there's an exit at the back to
Bryden
and we know there's an exit to Parkview
we don't want to burden either of those
two exits but there are going to be
exits and one's an exit and entrance to
Parkview Bryden is an exit only in our
plan
you will notice
um Ryan can you show the ex this is
right here is right turn in and out from
Main Street right and the reason we have
placed and we have some flexibility the
two entrances from the city's parking
lot the two
is we have to get in and out of our
garage and we have to do it in such a
way that spaces all of our exits and
entrants with 300 cars and then the
buildings we built are the the double
donut or the eight okay you don't have a
lot of flexibility with because
Apartments become certain sizes now the
preponderance of these apartments over
60 percent of these I believe are one
bedroom
um then there's two bedroom and then
what we've done here is in the two
corners of Main Street we've put three
floors floors three four and five of
three bedroom apartments now we've done
that
um not to get kids in the schools
because these apartments typically never
have them
um but rather we've been getting calls
from residents my age folks okay there's
40 year olds exactly 80 on the on the
31st thank you
um that um that they'd like to sell
their homes
and rent here now it's crazy as it
sounds you can sell your house in middle
of Baxley and move here free
literally free
you have no real estate taxes no lawn
maintenance nothing you pay rent and
you're done okay and pocket the money
from the house maybe we should have more
than six but I don't really want to have
more than six so anyhow
um so then sixty percent of what's left
a little more are one bedroom apartments
and then there's some twos the reason we
usually do 80 20.
twos to ones but the the reason today
two reasons is one is with people
working from home
uh more and more people working from
home
um they turned the second room bedroom
into an office today
um and they can write that off as well
and and uh they're now working from home
secondly that will bring in income to
the city of Bexley on the income tax and
so we we anticipate there'll be a bunch
of people doing that the second reason
we've gone to more two bedrooms than
usual is apartments are really expensive
today construction costs are up 35 in
two years okay
um our friend Parker McDonald found that
out
um and uh interest rates are now
8.1 for us uh floating construction rate
instead of three and a quarter that it's
been for the last eight or nine years so
everything's gone up in price and and
the sites typed and so we have some
flexibility to do certain things but we
are constrained
um and and again we're trying to
cooperate with with the The Neighbors on
all sides into the city which is
obviously a neighbor
um as well so if we want to move through
this a little bit
um who how do we do that
okay let's look at elevations those are
the the outdoor balconies of the three
three bedrooms and they have the exact
same thing there'll be another picture
you'll see this is looking at it from
the southeast at an angle the next view
is looking at it directly from the
Trinity
multiple materials we've tried to tie in
materials from across the street from
next door at the Alexander again this
isn't the Architectural Review but um we
we've uh
um been working on that and and uh but
this gives us some idea of the massing
and the location and and uh that kind of
thing yeah and and and that's outside
the the Hudson 29 would be right there
to the left side and and toward the
middle it'll also cover the snow in the
middle
um and it'd be about six thousand square
feet if any of you have eaten there
there's one on Lane Avenue and there's
one off of Market Street in New Albany
this would be Cameron's third in town
um and it's priced well and it's a
pretty good restaurant and and uh
uh so that's what we've talked about
then you see on the left side the the
balconies again on those uh they'll be
part of the three-bedroom uh unit that'd
be uh really pretty special uh some of
the parking I assume is set aside for
the commercial establishments or how
does that work yeah I'll tell you how
that works so the the garage that's
behind it okay
um
you'll you'll actually drive from Bexley
square if you come in by the traffic
light which we still think will be the
single most between that and the right
turn off of Main Street you know if
you'll come in there you'll actually be
driving do you have one you can show
them me you'll be driving between the
back of the retail office on the front
part at the garage itself you're
actually kind of in the garage okay
um and uh um all the parking toward the
front will be you know two hour parking
and then in the back
um is the parking for the residents now
also at the back of the site and you can
show the site plan
um the garage stops because Jason
correctly wanted at the mayor wanted the
building move forward
and so the back of the site is just
parking surface just as it is today only
obviously a new new parking surface
and I think I think Slidell help this is
that basement level that Frank was
talking about where we've carved off
about 50 spaces out of the 100 down in
the basement level
that would have that at Great access
over here to the Hudson 29 space
um
and then off office people would park
above that level okay
um and that that be for the um right and
there's whomever 45 spaces plus or minus
in the on the North side there are
surface spaces that would be available
um
but if you think about the 218
residential units there's about 160 on
the first floor the main level that's
that would be flush with this parking
lot
roughly 60 below that so then you're
right in that that kind of 220 spaces
for residential
um and these would these would really be
there would be some overnight parking
for guests or any kind of overflow for
the residential but mainly for the
Hudson 29 in the office space you're
interested we're talking right now to a
medical use for the rest of the first
floor space yeah oh are you okay and I'm
going to clarify something you said you
said Jason wanted something and I mean
what you are gathering is what you mean
is he is making suggestions to you that
trying to stay within the confines of
the Main Street corridor
the day we were selected for this we
called the mayor and the mayor called
Jason and we all sat down and they set
certain criteria for us
um because they as Jason said the mayor
and Jason were involved with capital
during the selection process and they
saw our plan okay and we were selected
and they didn't want the plan we had
that was moving the things farther back
and out of all that came this what I
call the double donut or the figure
eight okay so so just to set that
straight a little bit so right now we
have a 60-foot roughly 60-foot Bay of
parking on the North side on the
original concept it was a single Drive I
see it went around the north side and we
had a five-story building
closer to the residents to the north so
we tried to we studied pulling it to the
South and and we had it in kind of a
two-building fashion and it was five
stories above the the double deck now
it's four because we've broadened
everything out as much as as we could
which also lowers the height on
everything right just to clarify it
basically what we always do is we just
suggest that the applicant ways they can
be more in conformance with the criteria
that would allow you to potentially
approve things like a special permit so
that's why we make are we asking Jason
for any variances uh probably for
parking but it depends on how it all
falls out at the end yeah but parking is
like more right I mean no you you would
ask for a variance to reduce parking
number right now based on your current
account even though certainly in the
mainstream that there's a 30 shared and
we that's still a very it's it's likely
that that will occur again we don't know
yet yeah so there might be a parking
variance but but there might not be a
parking but everything we've tried to do
is variance free now we've listened to
all input as much as we possibly can
including
things like we're not going to have a
dumpster in the back we're going to have
a compactor and with a compactor you
know I live on on behind the out in
front of the alley here between Sheridan
and Maine that's where the bookstore is
and I'm telling you romke comes there
dinging their stuff at 4 15 in the
morning okay and Jim has told me that
several times we're not going to have
we're going to within the garage we have
trash dumpsters our maintenance people
will take those to a trash compactor the
compactor will be picked up as needed
um and another one replaced during
daytime hours to make everything as
simple as it possibly can be the problem
with all of this and then I'll we've
gone through everything I'll answer
whatever question anything you want the
problem with all of this is when you
have an expensive site that is tight
small that has certain egress and
Ingress already in place that can't
change okay
the city next to you on one side
we are constrained quite a bit to what
can and cannot be done now if someone
thinks this is too high which I don't
think it is because the building next to
it's higher okay
we can't lower it because if we don't
get this many units this many square
feet we can't pay seven and a half
million for a piece of land and move the
dirt and do all the things you can say
that's my problem not yours but if if
that happens we go away I mean we have
no choice and and this is very very
important to Capital the only part about
it was important to me was that no other
developer was coming into my city on my
street I'm doing this kind of stuff I'd
remind you that that the uh the building
you're sitting in was uh done with
dollars from the taxes on the Tiff on
the grocery store I did some years ago
right okay so and and so is the surface
building on Del Mar all done from the
taxes from that grocery store so this is
what we do for a living
um other people do it as well or better
than we do but it gets really you know
uh
you can't have a lot of variances and
you can't have a lot of variables
because we're in the business of
eliminating variables sure and we've
been doing that through this process I
probably met with the mayor ten times
okay and and everyone else now the only
other thing I'd say is I believe the
traffic study came in today
okay
well nobody's had a chance to no
nobody's seen it no one's seen it does
except
have a little um
requests that I'm getting on my phone
constantly that everyone board members
and applicants Kyle you you as well
please be close to the microphone
because this this is a full form but we
also have lots of people watching on
YouTube and they can't hear unless you
speak into the microphone you're on
Candid Camera YouTube I'd have brought
my toupee
all right listen
um I think it might be a good
opportunity to let some of the folks
talk so that your folks can answer
questions that they raise I think you've
given us a nice run around the entire
project gentlemen do you have anything
to add that would add to the knowledge
that they might need uh in order to ask
questions or to bring up any issues that
that Mr Cass hasn't already done
okay the the last thing I said about the
traffic study that came in
um Jason who's our engineer has had a
chance to look at that quickly and and
it basically
um is agreeing with our egress Ingress
points no new traffic changes have to be
made no traffic lights wide new streets
or any of that stuff okay so this can
fit within what's going on what's going
on here already but you'll all find out
that yourself yeah please yeah
um so the traffic the way the site
circulations intended to work is to try
to guide
the vast majority of the traffic towards
Main Street so we have put some
restrictions in the way the the lanes
are configured if you look at the west
side of the site that's a southbound
only one-way traffic and then also I
think Frank touched on with Bryden the
Bryden exit forcing that into an exit
only a one-way yeah so the the intent is
really to try to get all the traffic
either to the signal or use the right in
right out we understand the sensitivity
for the neighbors to avoid that so that
that is really the intent of it and
you'll see that highlighted in the
traffic study when once it has that
opportunity to review all right and just
for the record your name too so that we
can Jason Hawk stock okay real estate
thank you
are there people in the audience that
are contiguous homeowners to the I guess
it would have to be either to the West
in the Alexander or to the north on
Bryden
all right you know I think it might be
helpful to give you the first uh
priority to come up and speak to us uh
if you don't mind
of those folks okay
all right
um
okay and then
we have people from the Alexander and I
have a list of people from the Alexander
and then we can uh take them sir would
you please for the record this is a this
is a doesn't look like it but this is a
quasi-judicial
uh Forum here so we have to run it in
some ways like a courtroom right and
that's why everybody that speaks is
under oath and it's not like I'm picking
on Mr Cass or uh anybody else when that
I put you under oath but if you would
give me your name
uh last name Shankar and where do you
live sir 475 Columbia Place okay
would you raise your right hand and you
swear or affirm that the testimony
you're about to give us will be the
truth the whole truth is nothing but the
truth I do thank you tell us what you
think or what questions that you have
sir
oh yes and remember everybody we've got
about three minutes so let's try to get
to the point
she's got the timer over here so she
looks kind of mean doesn't she be
careful
no no I do a lot of expert Witnesses
thank you okay uh the gentleman here
said that he consulted with the people
who will be affected he definitely did
not talk to us uh we live at the corner
of this Alleyway and these Alleyways
were constructed just to let people go
into their garages not to become a
highway which is what we're going to
have now you're talking about the
pathway from the back end to Bryden Road
absolutely and your house backs onto
that road exactly I just happen to know
since you're familiar with that exactly
I actually brought the mayor at the time
yeah and I bought him to take a look at
what had happened after the Giant Eagle
was open we started to get a lot a lot
of food traffic
then Capital had their parking lot we
had an opportunity to see what happens
when both of their Collide you have both
pedestrian and you have cars I don't
care if this is one way this is going to
basically completely destroy our quality
of life but let me tell you this is not
only about us as is Brighton is terribly
overwhelmed and the city has already
prohibited parking in order to let the
traffic flow because this is the main
entry to get into the highway can you
imagine what's going to happen
when you're going to start having all
those cars moving in to brighten it I
don't care if this is one way this is
completely out of control you're going
to have traffic jam going in and out
this is against everything that Baxley
is the gentleman here were talking about
being pedestrian friendly this is not
going to be pedestrian friendly this is
not even going to be car friendly okay
okay so we have vehemently strongly
opposed
appreciate you and everybody coming
again
next you sir
there is a pointer somewhere there it is
sir your name please I'm JD Malone JD
and you live uh 2191 Bryden Road okay
thank you would you raise your right
hand oh it's the right hand sorry that's
all right you know the left hand doesn't
apparently uh do you swear or affirm
that any testimony you're about to give
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth yes sir
thank you please tell us what your
thoughts on this matter yeah I'm I'm at
this house right here your line goes
right to my kitchen
um my my
my first hesitation is that like this
this tree line and stuff back here is
not significant enough to
um as Mr Casp was saying block the view
of a large building here
um and our main concern is what sort of
what what is going to be on this
property line
um we'd like to see a wall
large fence something our other main
concern is this alley uh we really don't
like the idea of traffic from the
property flowing onto Brighton Road
Brighton Road is
significantly traffic today this alley
is mainly pedestrians and bicycles to
get into Giant Eagle from the
neighborhoods up here
more traffic on that Alleyway is just a
bad idea
um and there needs to be some buffer for
these houses back here okay including
mine obviously the uh you know there's
commissions that are going to look at
what what the plantings are and I'm sure
they'll be very very interested as you
are in making sure that that's a uh
significantly uh examined issue how
about that yeah but great but I
appreciate your comments very much and
thanks for coming down here
remember you stand here you get a better
view of me or do you want to talk no I'm
just joking
um my name is Mary dick and I live at
486 South Park View my property is right
next to the Alexander they're my best
neighbors okay but you raise your right
hand
you swear or affirm that any testimony
you give this evening will be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth I do thank you so now you live
next right next to the Alexander just
north of the Alexander on Parkview I'm
the first house north of the Alexander
got it now they do have the drive in and
out with the speed bumps yeah which
doesn't slow traffic people cut through
that parking lot from Bryden to Parkview
or vice versa I see it all the time and
then when you have your equipment your
Rumpke trucks couple times a day and
they don't slow down over those
um bumps yeah you hear it so anyhow
um the other problem I have is you
talked about a trash compactor that's
right behind my property ma'am you got
to address us oh I'm sorry he's not
going to vote we vote oh no I was just
having a question about the trash
compact we'll ask the questions of them
later but okay but there's supposedly
according to the plan there's a trash
compactor right there in the corner
right behind my property and we used to
have a dumpster that was a little bit
more west of where the trash compactor
looks like it's going to be
and
there was trash all the time and when we
would I would be cleaning up trash in my
yard all the time because it gets windy
you when you have rental properties
people don't care they just
do whatever so that's a major concern
okay and that's about it right yeah you
know I appreciate your coming down here
waiting all this time to tell us we need
to know these things and I appreciate
your taking the time to do something oh
and plus the noise of a trash compactor
I have no idea what that's going to be
like because I know how loud it is for
the dumpster
so no those are those are absolute
issues thank you thank you
did I have I thought I saw one more hand
on a homeowner contiguous if not let's
call folks from the Alexander I have
been given a list of order Brian Hunt is
at the top of my list does that sound
right okay Mr Hunt are you here
you are thank you for you were in the
mezzanine back there yes sir how are you
this evening I'm good could we have your
I just said your name but you better say
it because I might be wrong Brian Hunt
of love and Law LLC appearing this
evening on behalf of the Alexander
condominium unit Owners Association okay
thank you thank you uh so we do
appreciate the opportunity to appear and
speak this evening we know that this
board recognizes and the challenges and
concerns that an application like this
creates along with myself there are also
several residents from the Alexander who
will speak on how this proposed
development will directly affect them I
would like to First briefly identify a
few legal issues pertaining this
development will need to be addressed
resolved as part of this process the
first is a Ingress and egress easement
that passes along the north side of the
Alexander property which is clearly
intended to be a primary entering exit
to the development under the current
plans this easement is supposed to be
used for customary Private Drive
purposes only and is only intended to
benefit the Capital Property
under the current proposal there will be
a significant increase in the amount of
traffic far beyond what was originally
contemplated in the Eastman a change in
the type of traffic that was intended by
the easement will likely occur and the
easement will be extended to benefit the
properties to the East and thus further
unlawfully burdened the Alexander
property all of these points go beyond
the scope of the easement and
essentially turn a private drive into a
public right-of-way
there is also a parking easement that
the Alexander has for 16 parking spaces
on the northwest corner of the Capital
Property the current proposal completely
eliminates that parking and replaces it
with a trash compactor
normally the city may take the position
that these are issues between private
persons and thus irrelevant to
governmental approvals however when
reviewing a proposal such of this your
code requires that this board shall
determine among other things whether the
plans will have a substantial
detrimental impact on neighboring
properties the current proposal will
certainly have a substantial detrimental
impact on the legal rights and duties
existing because of these easements
alone if nothing nothing else
we also believe there's a situation
where an appropriation of my clients
property is likely to occur a tax
increment financing proposal is pending
which doesn't accept designate several
parts of the project to be public
infrastructure improvements including
the public parking garage
the use of the Alexander property then
to provide access to those public
improvements might very well amount to
appropriation without just compensation
aside from those issues several concerns
exist about the process itself for
instance even as it relates to this
meeting the notice received by the
neighbors and the agenda that has been
posted do not accurately reflect the
proposal being reviewed by the board
this evening
and the latest information regarding
this development was apparently just
posted on the city's website three days
ago but the former plans remain online
as well which just further adds to the
confusion the only reason that we had
any reasonable notice the revised plans
is because Mr Cash shared them with us
several weeks ago which we appreciate
moving forward we need to ensure that
this process is a fair responsible and
effective one just as an example of what
residents are concerned about the
demolition of the current buildings will
raise a lot of issues where will the
entry and exit points be for the
construction equipment and how will that
be determined and how will any effects
on neighboring properties be mitigated
along with various approvals being
needed we want to guarantee that the
city's review will be thorough and
complete that neighbors will be provided
adequate notice and that they will have
the opportunity to be heard and to
otherwise participate in the process so
again we thank you for your time and
attention this evening we will be happy
to answer any questions that you have
all right
thank you very much and I just wanted
noted that they asked me why I didn't
swear you in and I explained to them
that lawyers don't get sworn in we're
special we're special people we think we
are at least something like that just
ask us right now actually it's because
you're not testifying you're delivering
the message of your clients to us so you
don't have any personal necessarily have
any personal knowledge you you may in
this case have personal knowledge but
correct that's the reason general for
the general public the reason that
lawyers don't get sworn in as well as
legal arguments as well as their legal
arguments to be made as well but I think
you made a lot of them in a nice compact
short period of time so I appreciate
your lawyer-like approach thank you have
a good evening thank you very much
Mr Diamond
your name sir Steve Diamond even though
I know what it is you still need to say
it it's one of those deals do you swear
or affirm that the testimony you're
going to give us will be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth I
do thank you tell us about your
perspective on this matter where do you
live sure
as I stand before you today as a
concerned resident owner of the
Alexander in this wonderful Community my
home is located on the north side of the
building on the second floor along the
private Drive
first and foremost our Condominium
Association owns this private driveway
adjacent to our property and directly
below my home which provides convenient
access to City Hall Bexley Square Market
District and other nearby businesses
this driveway plays an important role in
our daily lives this drive is shared by
wave and easement agreement implemented
years ago with Trinity to use as a
private Ingress and egress for their
residence vehicles
I would like to point out that as owners
of this private drive we were recently
responsible for approximately three
thousand dollars in repairs due to the
excessive use of refuse trucks accessing
the Trinity apartment complex via this
driveway
additionally it is also the primary
location for moving vans and contractors
needing easy access to our freight
elevator losing access to this driveway
will create an undue burden
our location along Main Street a prize
aspect of our community offers easy
walking access to retail businesses and
restaurants many of our neighbors
including young families with strollers
and children on bicycles frequently
cross our private driveway to reach Main
Street
this presents a potential safety hazard
and we must take measures to protect our
community members especially the most
vulnerable
Beyond these concerns there's the
pressing matter of noise pollution the
consistent disturbances caused by refuse
trucks which frequently operate during
unauthorized morning hours and speeding
cars that pass by my bedroom window and
Serene balcony while blaring their
radios will inevitably escalate into an
unbearable nuisance this issue
significantly impacts our quality of
life and it's something no resident
should have to bear
with the proposed edition of 218 units
and a restaurant the volume of traffic
and noise is sure to increase tenfold
for our private driveway should this
project move forward as currently
planned
lastly as a homeowner I believe that the
current development plans as submitted
will adversely affect the value of our
properties Baxley has earned an
outstanding reputation both locally and
nationally and it is our Collective
responsibility to ensure that any
development aligns with our community's
character and values
if I can now ask my fellow residents to
stand
in conclusion to my esteemed members of
the Planning and Zoning Board
you hold a crucial role in our community
you are entrusted to uphold the law and
Safeguard the interests of our city and
its residents I implore you to remain
true to the pledge you made when taking
office
we rely on your wisdom and judgment to
guide us through these critical
decisions I respectfully request that
you carefully consider the impact this
proposed development may have on our
community
let us work together to maintain
bexley's esteemed reputation and ensure
that any changes align with our shared
values and concerns thank you for your
time and your dedication to our city
thank you very much Mr Diamond
are you sure you're not a lawyer that
was pretty good
uh Mr Roush
yeah
sure we'll pass them around
thank you
my name is John Rausch I also live at
the Alexander okay would you raise your
right hand do you swear our firm that
any testimony you give us this evening
will be the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth I do thank you sir
tell us your perspective Mr Brown uh I'm
simply following up on uh what Mr
Diamond said okay uh with some
photographs of how we are uh how we must
access our garages on uh the private
driveway I own both an inside garage
underneath the building and a deep tax
garage so I have experience with both of
them okay the first page of the
photograph shows that uh cars that are
coming in from Parkview Avenue that turn
into our main garage must use the North
Lane that's in that driveway which could
with higher volume have cars exiting at
that point which means that they may
have to wait on party Park View even
longer to get into where they can make a
proper turning radius to get into that
garage you can you can see the uh the
minimum that is shown on the first page
photograph
for the detached garages of which there
are eight uh in order to get in or out
of those uh you either have to back out
or if you've backed in you have to pull
out and you have to do so uh blindly uh
with some help currently and that's not
too bad because there's not too much
traffic and with a little uh somebody to
assist you or in my case I set a traffic
cone out into the driveway but it allows
me to back up into the driveway into
using both lanes turning around waiting
for my garage door to close and then
Moving on but this does tie up traffic
if there would be more traffic in that
driveway from this development
the third page shows is shows some of
the additional uses that we that we are
required to make of that driveway
uh for example uh it shows uh it shows
moving trucks that are there to move
cars in this happens on a very frequent
basis you'd you'd be surprised how many
people move in and out of a condo
we also have people delivering uh uh
heavy type appliances and things like
that and installations and remodels
and they end up parking right there in
order to uh enter the building and use
the freight elevator this uh this blocks
one lane sometimes for uh hours
sometimes for days
the other thing that we have is we have
cranes that have to be placed around the
building in order to service the the
roof and twice a year we do window
washing and balcony washing and cranes
have to be positioned there and moved
and block block one lane so it's more
than just a private driveway it is a
private driveway that is fairly easy to
use now and has not really caused any
problem with the uh 60 or so
residences that are in the Trinity
building
that's it okay
it's fresh thank you very much I
appreciate it your perspective
uh Ms Rosenthal
please
give us your name those things bend down
here a little bit
yeah I know I'm mine's short too I got
to put mine down your name is
do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you're about to give this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth that nothing but the truth I do
thank you please tell us your thoughts
about this uh project yeah
um my name is Maria Rosenthal and with
my husband Stephen on and reside in a
unit of the Alexander at 500 South
Parkview Avenue
my unit windows and balcony face east
and north of the second floor level of
the at the second floor level of the
Alexander the lowest residential floor
above our garage okay at present the
east side of our building has morning
sunshine full day daylight and a view of
three tops as well as a section of the
parking lot and the north and west
two-story building so the Trinity
complex softened by mature honey locusts
and other trees
looking at the proposed development plan
for the Trinity site we see a north
south through road that appears to be
only 10 feet away from our windows and
balcony
and a five or six story building
spending most of the length of the site
and much closer to the Alexander this
will affect us directly in terms of
noise due to vehicle and Service drop
traffic along the proposed Road the
proposed public parking garage and along
the Alexander private driveway which in
the proposed plan is turned into a
public street light pollution due to
lighting of the building and vehicle
lights entering an exit in the garage
and significant blocking of daylight due
to the height
of the proposed buildings
the proximity of the public road and
building structures also creates a
safety hazard and loss of privacy at our
property
in addition the current pedestrian
access to the shops at Bexley Square
City Hall and Giant Eagle seems to be
eliminated by the proposed structure
which does not show any kind of
pedestrian access across the site
and as the proposed plan shows
additional cuts to the sidewalk on Main
Street that alternative is not
necessarily safe for pedestrians we
believe that the proposed plan will have
a negative effect on the property value
of our unit
and while Redevelopment of the site is
welcome and necessary I ask that the
issues raised and concerns of homeowners
myself and how condominium owners at the
Alexander be addressed with care and
failures fairness thank you thank you
very much
that was also exactly three minutes I
want you to know so I appreciate it very
much you got a lot into a short period
of time
all right Ms Landon
your name please Jane Landon Jane do you
swear or affirm that any testimony you
give this board this evening will be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes thank you very much please
tell us your thoughts on this matter
I've been a resident of Bexley for 25
years for the past seven years my
husband I have resided at the Alexander
condominium
when my husband and I made the decision
downsized from our freestanding home it
became clear that we had a strong desire
to remain in the Bexley neighborhood and
enjoy the relative Tranquility that this
community provided currently my unit at
the Alexander is located on the
southwest corner on the fifth floor of
the building this location provides me
with a bird's eye view of the
intersection of Main Street and Parkview
Avenue as well as Maine as well as Main
Street what I've observed is a notable
increase in traffic along Main Street
especially during the rush hours many
drivers are turning off of Main Street
onto Parkview to avoid the traffic
lights at Parkview college and Drexel
Avenues as a city has instituted traffic
calming measures on one street the
effect has been increased traffic onto
other Bexley streets this has resolved
increased track noise and the smell of
exhaust fumes another concern of mine
with the increased traffic on Parkview
it has become increasingly difficult
when exiting the Alexander private
driveway onto Parkview it's very
difficult to make that left-hand turn in
reviewing the plans for the proposed
mixed-use building I'm concerned that
this will only create additional traffic
congestion in this Bexley Gateway area
also looking specifically at the
progressed Ingress and egress for the
building folks will quickly learn that
the most direct way to access the
property will be by the Parkview Avenue
and the Alexander private driveway the
private driveway will soon become a main
thoroughfare additionally drivers will
discover they can actually travel from
Drexel Avenue through the driveways and
parking lots of the Giant Eagle Bexley
Square Trinity site and Alexander condo
to Parkview Avenue thus avoiding the
traffic lights on Main Street this
traffic conjunction will undoubtedly
have a negative effect on my property
values another aspect of the traffic
congestion that I'd like to address is
pedestrian traffic there is a strong
pedestrian Presence at the bexa Gateway
it is wonderful to live in an area that
has high walkability many residents
residing in Parkview Arms up Apartments
the Westland Avenue townhouse use
Parkview Avenue and Alexander private
driveway to access the many shops
restaurants theater that Main Street
offers as I've seen in the past when the
parking lot at Trinity was open to
Capital students we saw an increase in
traffic on the Alexander private drive
this became a safety concern for many of
us that frankly walked this area speed
bumps were installed in the driveway as
well as pedestrian crosswalk signs again
in reviewing the Pro's plans for this
project which will provide additional
parking at this site I am concerned that
this undoubtedly result increased motor
vehicle traffic on the Alexander private
driveway and making for unsafe passage
for pest pedestrians both in the
driveway as well as crossing the
driveway on Parkview Avenue as someone
who is frequently walking their dog in
this area I'm concerned for my safety as
well as my dog's safety I would ask what
meaningful pedestrian and public amenity
space is this product providing finally
I would like to thank visa for the
opportunity versus my concerns about the
proposed Redevelopment no thank you for
coming tonight and telling us what you
think it's quite important for us to
hear these things
Ms Bundy
good evening how are you well good
give me your name please it's Nicole
Bundy all right Miss Bundy do you
swear or affirm that the testimony will
give this board this evening will be the
truth Ultra it's nothing but the truth I
do sir thank you very much and I'm not a
lawyer so I don't know all right guys
I'll be I'm just a doctor we'll cut you
some slack don't worry
so I am a 13-year resident Bexley
married to a Bexley native and we live
with our three children on South
Columbia Avenue I'm also an owner of a
unit at the Alexander and like the
others we've heard from I share serious
concerns that the proposed development
project will have detrimental effects on
not just the immediate area but the
larger neighborhood as a whole I come to
this as a stakeholder from three
perspectives so first my mother-in-law
Liz who is here with us a 48-year
resident of Bexley recently moved into
the Alexander and I'm worried about the
negative impact this development would
have on her quality of life when she
recognized it was time to downsize as a
family we encourage her to move to the
Alexander and purchase a unit for her
there because as it stands now it's so
well suited for retirement living it's
quiet and allows her to safely walk as
we've heard to many of bexley's
amenities and critically for Liz the
neighborhood as it stands now allows her
seven grandchildren who live in the area
to walk and ride their bikes to visit
her and I can't see how that won't
change
with the addition of the current
proposal 200 Apartments all the retail
space Etc secondly as I mentioned I am
the condo owner and I share Maria's
concerns about the impact this
development would have on the unit's
property value as shown in published
studies the situation in Bexley
specifically on Maine between South
Parkview and South Drexel puts this city
um already at or very near the
inflection point where increased density
has a negative impact on property value
and that directly affects all of us as
property owners in addition it has
effects on the desirability of future
investment in these properties
and finally and most importantly I'm
deeply worried that the proposal
fundamentally changes the nature of our
neighborhood my extended family
collectively owns and lives in five
Residential Properties in Bexley we have
made very deliberate decisions to raise
our children here and retire here
because Bexley as we know is a
remarkably special place a walkable
bikable peaceful neighborhood how many
of us have kids who've learned to ride
their bikes on these streets and then
immediately beg to ride to graders for
ice cream and we allowed them but that
answer would have been a categorical no
with a more congested neighborhood my
tweens now love to go to the smoothie
shop and they get boba tea and they go
to Giant Eagle this proposal with the
volume of traffic it comes with will
make the entire area too congested to
ensure the safety for our children as
pedestrians and bicyclists furthermore
the impact of this development is not
limited to the Alexander and Bexley
square and Gateway as I mentioned I live
on South Columbia Avenue near CSG every
day I see young girls walking and riding
their bikes to school they come from all
around Bexley and I have already seen
some really close calls with cars
speeding down Columbia and rolling
through stop signs it's our
responsibility to keep these girls safe
South Columbia will inevitably become
a through fare from the Bryden egress
down to Broad Street and that's simply
incompatible with keeping our
neighborhoods safe for our kids we all
have a choice where we live and spend
our tax dollars we choose Bexley because
it's Bexley a 200 plus unit rental
apartment building with commercial
spaces placed in our already mature busy
Main Street will inevitably change the
character of our cherished community and
remove it from in my opinion it's placed
as the best neighborhood for a family to
raise their kids and then retire in
Columbus
so I urge the developers to rethink
their plan and the board to ensure that
development of the Trinity site is
compatible with the immediate
intermediate and long-term wants and
needs of current and future Bexley
residents thanks for your time thank you
thank you for coming
Mr gross
are you speaking as a resident or as an
attorney for somebody here well I know
I'm a retired uh attorney Whose license
has expired uh in cold story
so
I swear and how's that just to be saved
do you swear or affirm Mr gross that you
would that the testimony you give us
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you sir
it should be noted you're the former
Bexley City attorney
for those of them not other high crimes
and Mysteries
all right good evening
uh my wife Sue and I live in the
Alexander at 500 South Parkview Avenue
our unit is on the northeast corner of
the building
directly next to the Trinity Apartments
property in fact we're two stories up
from the Rosen or neighbors and friends
the rosenthals
when we decide uh
my wife Sue grew up a little background
here my wife Sue grew up on College
Avenue and Pleasant Ridge and graduated
from Bexley High School in Capitol
University
and in fact I think Mr Cass would
confirm that there were times that he
played basketball with Sue's brother in
the house on Pleasant Ridge is that a
true story a lot part of the urban
legend in 1970 we bought our first
Bexley home so while I am not an
original Bexley I I've been a resident
for over 50 years
when we decided to move from our single
family home in 2021 we purchased a unit
in the Alexander
because
we believe and consider Bexley as our
home
and Bexley is our community we did not
want to leave
even though our children we have no
children living in town we love it here
having
experienced the decline of the Trinity
of this property up close and personal
Sue and I support the Redevelopment
since the developer was announced when
the developer was announced I called
Frank
and since that time we've had a very
open dialogue Frank has graciously
furnished us uh copies of the plans
we've we agree I think and some on a few
things disagree on probably a longer
list at this point
but I do want to acknowledge and thank
Frank for the line of communication that
he's been willing to establish
this as they say this isn't personal
I think it might be helpful if I could
share a few details about the Alexander
you know everybody assumes well you know
about us and what we are but just for
the record and for your information I
think this is relevant to your decision
making first we're solely and a
residential building
and yes our building is five stories
but we only have 31 units and 43
residents and our first floor parking
garage is limited to Residents and is a
secure space
the Alexander like the adjacent single
family homes
oops am I already at three minutes
okay uh I'll wrap it up we'll cut you
some Slackers as well just a little I'm
speaking too slowly
the Alexander like the adjacent single
family homes on South Parkview and
brightly Brighton simply would be
overwhelmed by this proposal of a single
five-story building of this size looking
out of from our balcony I mean virtually
the only thing we will see
is the building
second as you know we're a condominium
well what does that mean you know we're
owners we're not renters just like a
single owner of a single family home
we've all made a significant personal
investment in our unit
and we pay real estate taxes and other
taxes as city of Bexley sure third I
think we need to keep in mind that
senior housing
has been and still is an issue as one of
the few all real alternative housing
options for empty nesters
we believe the Alexander is a real asset
to our community
to demonstrate that most almost all of
our residents
have either lived in Bexley for a long
time and if that's not the case they
have specifically moved to Bexley in
order to to be near their children
grandchildren or other family members
I'd say that's pure Bexley this is what
Bexley is about
so ending pursuing me we're concerned
that the current plan is not in
character or compatible with the
adjacent residential uses we believe it
will negatively affect the value of our
investment and the enjoyment of living
in our unit as has already been
described in detail by our our neighbors
in closing I would like to invite the
board if you're interested you should
come over and visit our building come
and and view what we from our units
what you know the property
that we'd be glad to have you you come
uh and so thank you thank you Mr gross
we appreciate it
all right how many more speakers do we
have that like to speak either for or
against this proposal so I can get some
idea
thanks okay
I think we need to take about a five
minute break though for the board
members so that we can uh yes sir
stupid
I've heard a lot of things here
it's nice folks man who I know actually
because they're not it's always true
but some of them were really listening
to the benefit of what I said
um
same to three minutes straight and a few
things out before yeah
I'm sorry yeah you'll have a chance to
to yeah the last time I'll forget the
guys from the beginning yeah no we we
haven't you'll have an opportunity at
the end to uh recap but I just think
that a five minute break which won't
take very long it was it would be
appropriate at this time
about that that's good
um
episode
um
questions
for the last few years
thank you
very much
exercise
foreign
thank you
all right
foreign
thank you
I think it's five minutes yeah
what is
thank you
tonight
thank you
oh yeah
let me get the show on the road
how's it going man nice to see you
again
all right we're going to get started in
one minute one minute we'll start
that's cool
thank you
okay thank you all right thank you
foreign
thank you in your name Elaine rothy I am
an attorney Paul you know what who are
you representing somebody that's the
question I represent myself okay you say
represent yourself so you're a resident
where do you live correct I live uh on
South Columbia 374 South Columbia the
little red house
the little red farm house okay I got you
I got you okay and how close to Bryden
are you six or seven houses from
Brighton so I should be very I will be
very quick I want to I swear you in
anyway it's because do you swear or
affirm that any of the testimony you
give this evening will be the truth all
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you very much I will be very brief
thank you um my wife and I moved here
approximately 16 months ago okay our
daughter and welcome is uh thank you our
daughter
um who is the sister-in-law of Nikki
Nicole Bundy who spoke recently oh all
right our daughter and son-in-law bought
the house in Bexley for us because they
live on the Columbus side of Bexley on
Park Avenue and because Nikki and Bill
live at the other end and mother-in-law
um uh Liz lived on Fair she now lives at
the Alexander so we are all very close I
need a family tree before you're done if
you don't mind yes yes I'll uh you you
know there'll be a quiz at the end
um uh but my concern is the the uh
egress on to Brighton will if you
there's the little tiny jog goes right
onto South Columbia yes and that's the
thoroughfare with no light at the other
end to Broad Street right and and once
again someone mentioned earlier about
avoiding the lights on South Main people
are going to go South Columbia to avoid
the light on the Broad Street end
because the neck the there's lights on
the other are not on the other two
streets so that that is uh that's my con
that's my concern and we moved here
because it's Bexley yeah well thank you
I'm glad you did and hopefully this wall
will work out for everybody's benefit
but it doesn't work out for everybody's
benefit if we don't hear
what is happening and how it impacts you
that you're actually living there and
how it impacts the people who are
developing a property both so we need to
hear both sides and this is quite
helpful absolutely thank you for coming
tonight
all right row two let's see
ma'am
and your name please
my name is Gloria Higgins and Gloria
where do you live I live right over
there at 2202 Bryden oh it's on the
other side of the street on the on the
North side looking toward Maine yes
thank you would you raise your right
hand do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give us this evening will
be the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth I do thank you tell us
what you think
um I came over here tonight just to see
what was going on uh and with an open
mind and the more and more I hear the
more horrified I become because I am a
pediatrician okay I've retired I've
lived 25 years in Bexley and I am seeing
500 cars and 500 people pouring out onto
our streets where there are no traffic
lights and children are playing I don't
have any children now but I do have
grandchildren who visit sometimes and
there are other families who live along
the street and who do have children and
I am just horrified by by what could
happen to our children and children have
been my life right and it's it's just
too much it's too big the whole thing
could be solved
if this was a third size or a half the
size but there are too many people and
not enough space in this area so I just
plead with you who have power over what
happens in Bexley don't do this we're
going to be having dead children and
dead grandchildren and that's the last
thing I want thank you that's all I have
to say thank you
did you get out of the Trap back there
yes is there your name uh Mark Parish I
am a resident at 640 euclair about three
blocks east of here just by the library
okay
would you yeah swear or affirm that any
testimony you give this board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth and last
less than three minutes I swear to tell
the truth and I hope to be under three
minutes thank you
um I I just want to declare up front I
am an architect I work in commercial
um design I am in some ways a competitor
to the applicant here okay and so I want
to disclose that just to be fair to the
applicant sure the owner of the property
and the community just uh in terms of
kind of coloring uh where my commentary
is coming from here you work for a
particular company or yourself downtown
um
so I've been a resident of Bexley for
about six years
um you know I think by and large the
theory of this project is a wonderful
idea I'm in full support of doing a
development on this site I'm not in
support of doing the development in this
way
um I'm not going to focus can you hear
me
is this better yeah that's better yeah
sorry about that you recall on the last
speaker
no
never heard that
um
I am going to focus actually on the
public right-of-way and then the overall
massing of the project I want to
contextualize this I think this is a
generational opportunity for Bexley this
is a gateway movement moment to our
community and really to the entire Main
Street Corridor and I think we need to
be thinking about it in that way I think
it's really problematic that the massing
of this this project is pancake flat and
does not respond in any way to the
different contexts that it relates to
same scale at the north end with the
rear yards of Bryden same scale on Main
Street same scale to the West same same
scale to Bexley Square here
um I think that's really problematic and
I think this is one of the instances
where in trying to stay within our
design guidelines right and the
conformance to those guidelines we're
going to stay at four four levels and be
good we don't have to ask for variance
what's ending up happening is our Edge
conditions are really problematic for
the neighbors to the north it's too big
for those homes and then to the South
here we're right up against the right of
way and I think we need to think about
what a public good means in that context
I will never subscribe to the idea that
ripping 40 to 70 year old plane trees
out of that right-of-way in the
beautiful canopy that that provides the
consistency of that canopy through the
entire Main Street Corridor and the
Gateway that that provides to this in
community
um admit that it makes any sense to rip
that out to build to a lot line because
our design standards say we should do
that there's many ways we could hold the
building back at the South End a couple
feet 15 feet not disrupt those routes
and still build this development and it
would do wonders to descale the overall
presence of this development at the
public edge here
um that could even be held back in
cantilevers so they don't lose
um you know development of units above
um I think it's a real problem that
there's no porosity for pedestrians
through this site I mean we have have
buildings that are relatively this scale
vertically within Bexley we have nothing
like this in terms of an enclosed
insular footprint this is a community
and this building does not represent
what it means to be a part of this
larger Community it is entirely too
insular and it is a community unto
itself which I find highly problematic
for the overall kind of values and just
the basic development pattern that is
that is taken on over time here in
Bexley and I I think that needs to be
rethought I think the alleyway to the
north
um is extremely problematic it's totally
undersized and makes no sense I think
there's other ways to resolve that and
then I would question that whether four
stories actually make sense I know this
seems antithetical to the idea of that
scale being problematic but I could
easily see this development going to
five stories through the center of the
site here and DC scaling to three or
four stories at the edges achieving the
exact same number of units and I think
it would resolve a lot of the issues
around daylight access Shadow impacts
and just overall you know kind of
Monolithic density of the development
um and I think the
um I feel like I had one more point I
wanted to make here
um and really just use you know I think
um as we start to think about what's
within the building I think the retail
is really important obviously on Main
Street I think I've spoken to the right
away but also the slope of that right
away is not always great for for retail
and I think being really sensitive to
um you know the ability for people to
truly use that space and not have it
become a pass-through space to get up
the hill over time and be a lost
opportunity and I think pulling back and
having opportunities to Terrace that in
some meaningful way so it can actually
be usable and support that retail
environment is really important
um and then I think above that you know
as I hear this is going to be three
story units along the public face here
that almost ensures that there's gonna
be no activation of a five-story facade
on the public right away which I find
problematic if you're going to build at
this scale
um I feel like I could go all night but
I think that's probably the greatest
hits and I really appreciate the
opportunity to do this and I hope I was
fair to the applicant and my uh kind of
design Partners here in the larger
community so thank you thank you very
much
I like that word ferocity I'm gonna have
to tell me what that what that means
later but I think I know what it means
that was a good word sir would you come
forward
please don't use porosity you know I'm
not a lawyer so like no you're not those
words he's an architect so you know this
is microphone good I'll work into it
Alex Silverman 683 Vernon Road
Bexley Ohio 43209 all right how much do
you swear or affirm the testimony you're
going to give this evening is going to
be the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes thank you tell us your
perspective first off thank you for the
time thank you for this evening I know
it's going on two and a half hours
um listening to the residents uh I come
from South Bexley so the I think their
points are are valid and have concerns
to them I come from the food and retail
industry professionally and I was
wondering if we've identified staff
amounts for the retail spaces and
parking involved for the staff I know
the Gateway has the parking lot behind
it that usually fills up very fast
um from a mixture of people coming to
the restaurants and the staff that parks
there uh I believe that they said there
was going to be 12 000 square feet of
medical office space above
um what's the plan for the staff in
those businesses to park
on top of the residents I think looking
at these site plans I would like to see
a more defined identification of what's
going to be for residents of the
apartment building what's going to be
available for public for Bexley what's
going to be real for the staff that
works at these buildings how are we
building in a plan to address all that I
know that Jason talked about the design
the Main Street design about having
these connected easements so parking
lots flow into parking lots you can get
from Drexel
on to Parkview going through parking
lots going through thorough ways how are
we identifying that for this project
another question I have
is I see those two buildings what's
between the two is that public space is
that private is it fenced in is it
inclusive to anybody coming or is it
resident only how are we flowing for the
Commerce coming there for the families
coming from other areas of Bexley
because that's additional flow with the
retail space to accommodate this area as
a Gateway I will finish up saying that I
agree that Redevelopment is needed in
this space Commercial Business is is
good for our city
um
Mr Cass saying that Hudson 29 signed on
is huge Cameron Mitchell is the top
Premier restaurant tour for our city so
it's exciting to hear that that is of
interest for them to come here but I
want to make sure that we can identify
the use for everybody to have for this
Redevelopment thank you thank you thank
you very much
all right I know there was a gentleman
in the hall we have two
either one of you thank you
sir your name and where you live yes my
name is Spencer Cahoon I live at 800
South kassingham 800 South cassingham
okay which is where his Exposition a
main street it's essentially halfway
between Main Street and Livingston okay
would you raise your right hand and you
swear or affirm that any testimony you
give this evening will be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth I
do thank you please tell us what you
think
I want to take a minute just to focus on
parking for this property as proposed
right now one I want to note I think
this is a great development opportunity
I love that a local Bexley residence a
long time resident who has some
understanding of the community and
investment in it is involved in the
Redevelopment process and I'd like to
take a minute just to celebrate that so
thank you for your involvement both in
our community here and previously
and I think this is going to end up in a
great place with some tweaks right now
where we're at I heard the development
team saying there's 218 units and
there's about 220 spots for that
residential and that's about right
that's unfortunately very out of keeping
with what our parking standards are for
Main Street development and I think it's
surprising that the development team
would make such a comment
the parking standards for Main Street
development suggests not suggest
required that at a minimum one and a
half parking spots per residential unit
are required and that means in this
circumstance as currently drafted there
would need to be
327 parking spots for the residential
alone
the parking structure itself as
currently drafted has only 269 spots
with 44 rear surface spots in addition
to that when you put those together
that's even less parking than would be
necessary as a minimum for the
residential
and then to talk about this I won't get
into tiffs and things and whether it's a
public good or what have you but if
there is the intent for there to be
broader public use for this
and there's only just enough to satisfy
the needs of the residential tenants and
that's not to speak of the business
interest people would be visiting the
restaurant the people will be using the
other retail spaces
then we're looking at at least basically
an additional 50 parking spots that
would be necessary to meet the minimum
standards not the extra that you might
say this is sufficient to provide access
for Gateway tenants or tenants here at
Bexley square or around those areas to
come and use it not even getting into
that just the minimum to meet the needs
of the property as the development is
currently drafted that's to say one in
six spots that would be necessary under
our rules is absent
one in six that's a huge amount of
parking that's just not on the table at
all now I'm sure there's a way to adjust
that to put in more parking instead of
residential or to shift around the
number of units because as you change
that obviously the necessary amount of
parking shifts as well
but right now
you're talking about how there's going
to be all this extra Ingress and egress
and people coming
there's also going to be a lot of people
searching for parking and parking
somewhat permanently on the surrounding
streets in the grocery store parking lot
in Bexley Square because as it's drafted
there simply isn't enough parking for
the planned use of the space
so I would really like to see some sort
of change made to adjust that parking to
be in keeping with the standards that we
have codified for what we expect for new
development in the Bexley corridor
and thank you very much for your time I
appreciate it thank you for coming and
giving us your perspective
sir there you go
how are you today I'm good thank you
your name sir is Don marshner and Don
where you live 2250 Bryden okay you're
right there right down the street do you
swear or affirm any testimony you give
us this evening will be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth
I do thank you so uh
I've been looking at this project over
the last couple weeks
um so basically I've got questions I've
got a I come from a development for a
developer to get architecture and
construction background I've been doing
this for 40 years okay so I have a
pretty good feel for what we're doing
here I'm very Pro development
Okay I uh you know my livelihood is part
of that process sure so looking at the
drawings I have a couple questions and
hopefully these guys can address
something we're going to give them a
chance to answer a lot of questions for
sure
um relative and again very eloquently
spoken to relative to the parking
variants
um he explained it and uh addressed it
much more eloquently than I can he was
well prepared he was so my concern
obviously living on on Bryden is
Overflow we're we're talking about a
pretty significant variance request that
will be addressed at some point during
this process 80 to 90 spaces from what I
remember looking at okay so that's a
concern obviously and the reason I'm
asking specifically about it is as it
relates to the other developments here
the Bexley Square I don't know if there
were any variances that were required or
requested as part of that Redevelopment
I don't know either okay so I think
that's a valid point that we should be
looking at I also look thinking of Giant
Eagle I've been I live I've been living
on Brighton for 23 years
and saw that development go in sure I
was very excited about it it was a great
you know it helped our help didn't have
to shop at Kroger's anymore
anyways I didn't know if there's a
variance that was attached to that
development so my my concern is that if
there were we're already talking about
not having an appropriate amount of
parking let's say for those two
developments and then
piling on if you will
of another fairly significant variance
request that's going to be required so
we're talking about obviously sharing
parking spaces and overlap and you know
being able to utilize those other
parking areas I think is needs to be
addressed holistically from from that
perspective okay next uh the traffic
study and parking study is that you said
it was just made available or just
received today yeah so I would is that
information going to be available for
our it didn't come in till after that I
want to make sure it's going to be
public access to be able to review it
and and take a look at it as part of it
we don't know these things so you know
we can't answer those questions well but
it does it does become part of the
public record I would expect right what
you're saying is you'd like to have that
happen that's correct so just like the
drawings are available I'm hoping that
that get drawings that are uploaded we
put them on the public website yeah so
so that you guys will be reviewing that
I would imagine at some point and hoping
that we can have access to that as well
I'd like to be able to review that and
see how it you know how it affects
specifically Bryden but obviously
the Alexander and Betsy score and
everything else I would expect and Main
Street especially
um
my other next question would be relative
to the change in the design I had looked
at it previously with the previous
design with two buildings
much less massing if you will and was
surprised today when I looked at it
again to see a very a much different
um
proposal so I was wondering why that why
the difference okay
I don't know the answer to that either
but we'll address all those things when
they get a chance to worry about here
um because obviously you know this is
one large building versus two
smaller buildings with a drive with a
connector driveway in between from the
previous design so I'd like to
understand
why we're looking at a different
direction huh sure
um
let's see oh the access point for for
Bryden I thought I was told previously
or maybe this was incorrect so I want to
get clarification on it the access point
to Bryden
the drive there the single Drive I was
told at one point that that was going to
be just pedestrian and now it's
obviously being proposed as traffic and
or exiting traffic that seems to be so I
don't know if that's changed as well or
if that's something that uh obviously is
is going in a different direction let's
share what we thought was going to
happen previously
um
your three minutes is gone so you're
gonna have to come to a wrap up here I'm
cutting slack yeah I understand uh so
again impacting and understanding the
traffic on the other other sites is
important to me uh I think that's it at
that okay thanks very much for coming
down we appreciate it
all right do I have any more hands or
arms or you're coming up here all right
I wasn't sure whether you what you were
going but you can charging in the room
good so I figured that you were
interested your name is Angela yuck and
Angela where do you live I live on 2240
Brighton Road okay all right put you
right there do you swear or affirm any
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth the old truth and nothing but
the truth I do thank you very much tell
us what you think they're from Ryden
Road
um okay first of all I'd like to say
thank you
um to Frank and his wife for their
involvement and commitment to to Bexley
I know that there is a housing crisis in
Franklin County and I appreciate him
trying to
build it and they will come to Bexley
um but as far as the project details in
itself there has to be some
modifications there's several of us here
in this room that have children that go
to Casting ham
when we first moved here the grades was
K through six now it's K through fifth
there used to be three sections for each
grade there are now four sections there
are classrooms for the elementary that
are now in the Middle School
um so it is
um a a problem here in central Bexley
they do not have that case in Montrose
or at Maryland but this property is
going to be in central so where are
these kids going to go we are busting at
the seams
um I just want to remind the committee
that parking on Brighton is only on in
the evenings after 6 p.m and on weekends
and you can only park on the south side
of the street there is no parking on the
North side and part of that is because
it ends up being a cut through
um it's a cut through between
um you know Parkview and Drexel again
we've talked numerous times about
avoiding the traffic lights on Main
um when the Giant Eagle project went up
um we were very involved in the traffic
studies we had asked for Speed humps
bumps whatever you'd like to call them
um in the city declined that because we
were told they do not like to install
those in the city because of um when
it's winter and the salt trucks and
service vehicles
um I would like to also remind you that
Bexley is proud to be a high walkability
community
and that on the weekends and in the
mornings and even evenings short
Brighton as I referred to it for many
many years I'd like to say I coined up
but I'm not sure
um but people use that to get to Wolf
Park they use that to get from you know
South to Central North to Central
um you know come and sit on my porch and
have coffee at 9am on Saturday I mean
hundreds of people pass by and how do we
keep that safe for the runners how do we
keep it safe for the bicyclists how do
we keep it safe for children I've seen
my children who are grade school
children been hit almost probably four
times because of cars that speed through
there and a soccer ball or a basketball
or a hockey puck go goes across the
street now we're asking to um
take the load we're you're asking the
residents of Brighton Road to take the
load for Bexley for this development and
it is going to cost
um it's going to be safety issues it's
going to be traffic
um and you know wow that is a large
burden and you know houses on that
street there's some you know large ones
that are probably a million dollars and
you have smaller ones that are probably
you know 500 000 but it's gonna affect
the investment and I just ask you also
to look at the the cut through that is a
walking path that is where people cut
through to go to Giant Eagle to shop
they use that to get to the Drexel
Theater they use that to get to Mushu
Sushi they go to
um uh Rusty Bucket it is bride and it's
the Park View folks it's the Columbia
folks it's the Drexel folks there is not
a lot of parking there it is just one
lane and that is really becoming a
pedestrian alley and so you're going to
take that away and that's going to
affect the the businesses so I just ask
you to walk on Brighton I ask you to
walk on that path and see how this is
going to affect us thank you thank you
anybody else wish to speak
I don't see any hands okay uh
I think what we would could you Mr Cash
you can decide how you want to organize
it but you certainly have a chance to
answer some of these questions and make
and discuss some of the issues that were
raised or you could have your anybody in
your team however kind of a sequence
that I would like to go through and then
some of the details
um yeah professionals can do okay if I
stay right here absolutely yeah can you
hear me here all right
so um
first of all I've been doing this a long
time and I actually
um whereas I'm particularly aggravated
at Jim gross I'm appreciative of the
comments everybody's making
um and I'm not uh um
[Music]
unconscious of understanding what a
development of of this size and kind
has in terms of impact I get that all
right
um have having having said that
um I'll go back to the first person that
spoke
um who lives on Bryden and said I never
talked to him I was instructed by the
city at the time to deal with the
Alexander as a whole through Jim who had
approached me and the uh mayor when we
were named the buyer
um and not at this point till meetings
begin to get involved because there's
many of you on Bryden there's now the
people on Columbia Circle that came and
then people from up and down the road
and I'm not a door-to-door kind of guy
um that that can either take that amount
of time or know exactly what everybody's
grievances are other than to know that
when we walked in here at about quarter
I didn't think you were all here to
support me
so so let me
give you some context to what I'm going
to say my mother named me Frank for a
reason so if I insult anybody with what
I'm going to say I apologize in advance
um
Bexley is an older community with a lot
of older people I'm I'm near the top of
that list okay I'm gross is year older
than I am
um so uh
I understand that communities like this
become Comfort Havens for people to stay
here we chose to stay here when we sold
our house I was so you know at a city
council meeting one night until 2 30 in
the morning and Giuseppe stayed open
because he was going back and forth to
get my uh uh condo little condo approved
on uh Maine and Cassidy and they didn't
let us let the elevator get to the uh
top floor because it would be almost as
high as the Alexander was okay you were
at the meeting so
um the the uh so I get the process the
problem with Bexley and I love Bexley
and I stayed in Bexley and all of you
have is that it's not welcoming to young
people that graduated high school here
went to Ohio State or away to college at
Miami or NYU or wherever they went and
then they come back and there's no place
for young people to live within this
city and so they don't and so they go to
live in Upper Arlington they go to live
in the short North they live in German
Village they live in apartments all over
they live in New Albany we don't keep
them when they get back living in our
city now they might move back when they
get married and have kids but that is
years later or they might choose
Grandview is that where you grew up or
Arlington Arlington ends up in Bexley
you know so it's like we do not have and
communities die
clubs die if they don't start
regenerating
people with high school and college
degrees that want to come back and live
in those communities and support those
communities and so I clearly understand
the comfort of being our age you're all
age and I don't mean that all of you are
my age I get that
um don't mean and so you
um but but uh
we need to provide places for Young
Folks now you can take a look at all the
apartments
that were being built here over the
years now right on the other side of of
uh Alexander
um I don't know what those are called we
call them Park View whatever right
Parkview Arms I don't know what as crazy
as this sounds I got married
um in in 1965 in December and I moved
into a one bedroom just as it was being
built and you know two months later my
wife got pregnant moved out and we went
to Wyandotte East then came back to
Bexley as soon as we could
um there were no places really and then
that turned out to be a place for people
that are my age now not that were my age
that you got to bring your young people
back I know people that live at
Alexander that don't have one kid that
came back to Columbus Ohio or to live in
Bexley this was important for Bexley to
have a a generation of high school and
college graduates that get jobs in
Columbus Ohio that can actually live
here before they get married before they
have kids and I'm in a segue I want to
address the kids question that somebody
brought up the school district I can't I
don't remember who it was if this
community that'll have 250 people living
in it if this community has five
children of school age that would be a
world record
okay school-age kids don't live in these
kind of Apartments to begin with almost
70 percent of them are one bedroom
apartments okay the two bedroom
apartments will normally be two
roommates or they'll be an uh a bedroom
and an office you don't and and they
might end up having a baby here that
sleeps in a crib in their room until a
year or six months or whatever is going
on these aren't apartments with kids in
them and at the school district knows
that by the way
Jason settled seven hours ago or
whenever we started to speak
um that that those units now are uh
being occupied by people from Columbus
State
and they actually have kids in the
Bexley schools right now
okay
in apartments that pay no real estate
taxes toward that school so it's like
we're gonna put young folks in here
we'll put some folks in here that want
to fight a three floor apartment we get
that
um one of the things on my mind I'm
gonna go all over the place so as an
architect I spoke a few minutes ago I
don't know if he's still here or not
um I I thought he was very eloquent
um and and you all clapped for him but
he was an advocate of the same density
he just wanted it to go higher and a
little lower next to you not going to
solve anybody's traffic problem same
number of people same number of cars
everybody clap for okay I don't hear
anybody clapping for me
um so it's like but so he wasn't against
our project he's a development person
you know and and so now I'm going to go
into the trash dumpster business okay we
have designed this building to have
dumpsters within our garage that feed
down by a shoot like probably your
buildings do from your apartment fourth
floor third floor second floor into a
shoot and I think
eight locations or I can't remember how
many our management staff the staff that
runs the building will take the trash
from those dumpsters and put it into a
compactor okay and not the world's
noisiest compactor and it's not right
next to anyone's home it's separated by
vegetation and many many feet behind it
and it's also not right by the drive and
it's not by the back windows of the of
the uh Condominiums it was put where we
thought it would be the best
Mr gross Jim mentioned to me that the
Rumpke traps come through his property I
called the mayor I said mayor when we
get this done Rumpke trucks picking up
your trash on the Bexley lot will have
to go through the Bexley lot not through
here they're not going to come through
the property so we're trying to address
all these problems as they come up but
here's what you have to understand some
of you are Bryden and Colombia uh and
and and north of the property and you
don't want anything going out to the
north
the rest of you are at the Alexander and
you don't want anything going out to the
West
and the problem is whereas people are
going to like our Apartments they'd
probably want to leave once in a while
and so what we've tried to provide here
is five ways in and out five ways in and
out in terms of parking and the people
addressing the parking problem okay
hopefully you don't have many meetings
like this that this many people show up
so this parking lot was filled tonight
but many nights this parking lot's empty
and I assure you when it's empty one of
the first places that someone eating at
the uh uh
Hudson 29 are going to park is in this
lot as close to Main Street as they can
because we're all the same when you you
know we drive up to the Giant Eagle and
are aggravated that there's so many uh
handicap spaces because we'd like one of
them because they're by the front door
okay everybody wants to park near where
they are so there's going to be this is
this has 81 parking places over here now
we've shown a plant that could make
maybe a little more but let's say 81
parking places we have Ryan on our side
how many
320 not the 240 the gentleman said 300
and that includes the ones at the back
that are not in the garage but are on
the surface by the way the exact same
surface that everybody that walks from
the Alexander to Giant Eagle or Orange
Theory or or you know Brassica that same
parking lot is open to everybody that
wants to go that way there will be an
easement for all of your equipment that
washes windows and does anything they
want to do all that will be provided
your 16 parking spaces they're not where
the dumpster is or where the trash
Masher is they're open spaces where the
how many were in the back again 45 45
you will have your easement will be part
of those 45 spaces not being taken away
from anybody
now
you know we have a movie theater here
it's just an awesome movie theater
and and it's like when they rebuilt it
um Bill Connor who ran Kappa that took
it over May rest in peace one of my
closest friends called me up one day and
said you know you have this Giant Eagle
Property you're building right now we
have the two worst bathrooms in North
America at the Drexel
could we have some of your property on
your property and put the bathrooms how
the Drexel bathrooms look they sit on
the Giant Eagle Property okay
um and but where do you park when you go
to the movie theater
you know we we have a wonderful parking
problem here it's called Urban
this is an urban community uh you know
some of you maybe have leaks or problems
in your apartment you'll be more
aggravated at me I built those buildings
for Larry Rubin
no sooner did he build those buildings
did he began talking to Capitol
University and then Trinity
to
buy this to put Apartments here right
away
you know I I hate to tell you frankly
that there's no guarantees when you buy
property like you did in a Condo
building what's going to be next to it
um and we're pleased to be able to tear
this down if you think the buildings
should be higher higher and tiered a
little bit on the front that that's
going to help somebody's view or
whatever we'll we'll look into that but
in the end in order to buy this piece of
land at the price they're asking for it
which is not an unreasonable price okay
the the project we're doing in Upper
Arlington where the original Lazarus the
first the Lazarus store that wasn't on
High Street went we paid six we paid 12
and a half million for that six acres 12
and a half million for that six acres
and we're putting honored Apartments
330 apartment 25 apartments and a 559
car parking garage we've already opened
the senior living you guys mentioned
senior living your senior some of you we
build Senior Living you know we built
the Coventry that just opened in up
Arlington and and cherry blossom here we
have nine senior living rooms we
understand Senior Living
yours is not Senior Living it's living
for seniors okay and that's very
different you know
um so we get that but this property
needs to be developed densely because
Main Street is dense the last thing I'm
going to say to insult everybody okay is
that when you bought at Columbia Place
one of my best friends passed away
Michael block had the exact
part the house right behind here just
right behind here okay when you buy on
on Brighton short bride which is great
short bride and by the way when you buy
or build where we did the houses on
Sherwood behind us you know you're an
alley removed from Main Street that's
the reality of it you bought on Main
Street okay and when you buy on a street
that has commercial zonings and that's
where the money comes into this city
comes in from Main Street
it's not where kids live okay and you
know look
I don't want anybody speeding here there
and I totally understand people are
going through stop signs and everything
else has nothing to do with this
property there's gonna be more people
here if you all want nobody driving the
bride and then someone's going to have
more people drive in the Park View we've
made some arrangements on Parkview I
don't know if it if everybody noticed
but when you're in that garage you won't
be able to go back toward Parkview and
your drive if you're in the garage
now you will if you're in the back 45
spaces but you add more people than that
when Capital parked there going through
there so most people we think are going
to go right out and in on Main or go
back to the traffic light at college
natural place for them to go
that's what we think the traffic study
will show we've planned this pretty well
from a traffic standpoint for this load
that nothing needs to be done on the
streets or traffic lights
to make any changes can't satisfy
anybody we think young people have a
right to live in Bexley we think this
property ought to be dense we think that
Urban is dense and we're going to bring
some good retail you know the concept of
getting offices for the the schools if
they move in here to create six more
classrooms in an area that someone
mentioned they're short on classrooms
right now all of that stuff works can't
do everything can't satisfy anybody
we're either Too Tall we're either too
short you know I don't know what to say
I'd like to ask a couple questions
um that were raised by the folks out
there one of the things I think I notice
is that trafficking call me on I mean
this is probably a question for Jason
the traffic calming on Main and I joke
with my wife sometimes that I leave
downtown no traffic jams anymore because
nobody's down there and I come up and
the first traffic jam I reach is Main
Street in Bexley and that's because of
the traffic calming generally so
the part of the plan
involves slowing the traffic on Main
Street does it not yes yeah I would also
say that
if I were characterizing that as a jam
it's more like a that's a low down for a
minute uh as we know in in the most
major Metro is we have actual jams
Columbus is a very huge advantage to
that that's true yeah um that being said
yeah that is right I mean I think the
idea is that we've benefited
um from a safety standpoint and
aesthetic standpoint by having medians
on Main Street prioritized a little bit
slower traffic that being said there are
times a day when it's tougher to move on
Main Street in a car uh but those are
pretty short times a day and I think as
a community that's been the trade-off
that people have been willing to take so
um will this add some more traffic we're
going to look well look um will it be
significant doubtful in the amount of
overall traffic that's already occurring
on Main Street but yeah any additional
development of course will will make
some changes I don't know if that was
exactly what you're asking oh thank you
that's that's exactly what I was going
to ask
um and I don't know which one of your
folks might want to answer these
questions but they can certainly answer
answer them I think the
we heard quite a few comments about the
past to Bryden from the and being One
Way North I assume as an exit exit only
yeah can you talk about what you're
planning to do with that or how that
fits into the plan assuming that this
all happens I mean what everybody's got
to understand here is
this property purchase is dependent upon
you're doing due diligence and you're
getting to certain points in time and if
it doesn't work out you just you're not
going to do the deal and you're gone
right we have a definitive timeline
we've already put quite a bit of money
down we have to close on this property
probably in November I think with the
one extension we have okay so now here's
the beauty of it they'll give me an
extension because it's it's me and it's
them no okay and they know that anybody
else coming in here paying that price is
going to go through the same process
exactly no matter what happens yeah um
so I'm not holding the gun to anybody's
head no but but you know I I don't make
any money talking you know Capital
doesn't you know get what they want if
somebody doesn't close on this property
and the city doesn't get what they want
if somebody doesn't develop it and and
that's I just want by the way that road
is only one way I understand so what I
mean by that is it's not wide enough for
two lanes okay so we can landscape it we
can do whatever needs to be done as it
relates to that but there's really if
one car right now cars could go either
way I think on it but if one car is
going one way the other car can't get in
the other way without stopping it so we
just thought the exit was the simplest
you want to address I think it was Dr
Shanker that lives on the in his
backyard backs onto that roadway and do
you want to address his uh commentary
that uh it kind of will destroy his his
Ambiance back there whatever is going on
I mean I don't know I think that I don't
remember yeah he has every right to
think that if there's 300 cars in a lot
and if 45 of them head that way at the
end of the day okay that
you know and if he's there at the moment
that happens they're not all going to
leave at the same time
um you know
it will not be nearly as bad
that when you live on Main Street and
these motorcycle jockeys come through
the middle of town okay and and those
people can be heard back near Broad
Street already coming down Main Street
okay so it's not like everybody's
leaving or coming one of the beauty of
this project is there's people living
here some of them will be staying all
day some of them will be leaving in the
morning others will be coming back at
different hours everybody is on Flex
time today you know the retail pieces
those people people will be coming from
the front coming from Main Street not
going out the back so we've tried to do
everything we can to spread out whatever
cars are here but the fact of the matter
is Jason said 300 cars if that's what it
is is not going to materially change
what's going on every day on Main Street
or on park for anywhere well I haven't
said that it's still 300 cars so are
there likely to be more people coming
through the Park View piece you know by
your garage and your place likely they
will but what I can tell you is it won't
be Rumpke
mm-hmm you know what about uh the issue
of Staffing for these businesses uh uh
you know people who work at the doctor's
office or work at the at uh Hudson 29
that kind of thing so in this business
and Jason and and Ryan can can speak to
it this whole concept of being able to
have people living there working there
the enough people will leave their
Apartments during workout before for
work that that will free parking spaces
for business and and workers go ahead
right please yeah and without going into
a lot of detail
um
so there's 320 parking spaces that we
are providing as part of the development
220 of those are units
so one would think that at least one car
per unit you know a guaranteed parking
space let's say that leaves 100 parking
spaces that are for that shared parking
um during those off power so the
restaurant we're carving off 50
short-term parking spaces down in the
basement there's 45 in the in the back
in that surface parking lot right now
that's the thought that those would be
the the two obvious places to do the
parking one on the upper level one on
the lower
um employees employees to the back right
and that's not setting stuff
um that's just where the thoughts are
right now
um and then when it comes to office
space office is using the parking during
the daytime when we're anticipating most
of the residents when they're out of
their units they're going to free up
parking spaces during the daytime so
it's it's a shared parking situation
it's a mixed-use type of deal and and
you know instead of planning for the
worst case scenario the Thanksgiving uh
kroger model or the the old mall parking
is changing nowadays and driving habits
are changing we're seeing stuff like one
and a half parking spaces per unit it
also depends on your unit mix heavy one
bedrooms a lot different than the old
days when we had heavy two bedrooms
um but in in Greenfield developments and
Suburban more Suburban developments one
and a half spaces per unit
um even your code has in the muc
district which is the underlying Zoning
for this property it's any residential
name you see it's requiring one space
per unit so I don't think it's with it I
don't think it's out of Reason what
we're trying to propose on this site
yeah and there's overflow at the city
when it's available and then there's the
shared parking that happens right then
all the rest if I can just say two quick
things about there no I've been going
forever we'll get into that in a lot
more detail we'll give you a pretty
thorough we're very thorough uh
evaluation of that once we we iterate
this plan understand where we're headed
that being said our code does provide
for shared parking it anticipates that
it's something we encourage because it
works
um our parking code frankly I know it's
going to be hard to believe if you're
not doing this all the time we're behind
the curve on the direction most parking
codes are going most Urban parking codes
are going toward fewer spaces and um
other cities around the central Ohio
region around around Ohio around the
country have actually gone in a
direction to require fewer and encourage
shared use more and the other thing
again people tend to not believe because
it sounds counterintuitive
typically
developers are the ones who are low to
put into too few spaces but they want
their spot to work the last thing a
developer wants is for someone to not be
able to live there because they can't
get a spot or not be able to eat there
because they can't park so um that's
over it yeah and across the across the
this isn't unique to Bexley I think one
of the things that we will have to deal
with as a as a b zap and as a citizenry
and everything is this is a big project
for us this is not a big project for
infill development across central Ohio
and so we can look to those norms and
say what is it what's happening in Upper
Arlington you know what's happening in
and all these other corridors and cities
throughout the region and how much are
people really parking there and I think
we're going to find that
um we can get to a reasonable
accommodation where we're sure we have
enough parking but not overburden our
partners it reminds me when I was on the
Columbus Board of zoning appeals in the
90s uh we would have constant
variance requests in the short North and
in German Village
and those areas were very similar in the
sense that there was there were Urban
the buildings are actually built smack
up against each other uh they're all
three four five six stories not all of
them but a lot of them were were built
in 1900 and uh the parking of course the
shared parking
had to be a remedy and it it turns out
that apparently it was a remedy and I I
think that that's what I have learned by
being on these zoning boards in the past
in in Columbus of course you've got
more people more problems and more
issues but
I think it's something that that you
need you the city staff you the
developer need to pay some significant
heed to so that you can teach us whether
this works or not so that we can make
better decisions for the city you know
you know it works the problem is which I
have empathy for them they bought these
Condominiums
um they didn't look at it as Urban they
didn't look at it in the short North
where the buildings were five feet apart
okay and and the parking lot is
somewhere else and I I get that yeah you
know I get that so that's but it's
counterintuitive once you understand
we're putting up this if we do that that
we need five ways in and out to take
care of the traffic yet two of the ways
in or out are problematic for some
neighbor you know which I get and and so
we don't have a solution you know it's
going to be some form of compromise that
everybody has to understand you know
um sometimes you live with the least
worst alternative
um you know um and and in this case not
developing that site is is not an
alternative and and making it not dense
um is not fair to the university that is
is needing income frankly
um it's part of it the other question
that I thought was raised which was
interesting was that I'd like for you to
respond and I do want to wrap this up
but we do have other cases we have to
hear tonight believe it or not so
um uh is the idea of when you're
constructing how does the construction
equipment get housed and moved in and
out I think that's an interesting
question I'd like to have somebody
address that yeah that's something we've
already contemplated and I'm sure
typically for the first time you thought
about it right now but we're still in
the early stages as part of the process
but you know most of our projects we in
incumber the entire perimeter of the
property and offense our site Logistics
we anticipate all construction traffic
coming directly off of Main Street
there's a critical path here
specifically getting that West Road
built early so that all construction
traffic comes in and out of that
specific area we're going to work
through those details and provide
documents of that but we would not use
Bryden Road or the access point there
nor would we come through uh the West
either I mean it's intended to be
located strictly on site from the south
on Main Street
now the two sites in Upper Arlington are
tight like this and we're dealing with
with that as well yeah and of course the
the pros and cons of that entrance is
that eventually you get to the back of
the Alexander with your construction
equipment I mean you know everything is
got some problem when you're in this
type A a space but uh I I would say I'm
trying to deal with all of the issues
that I wrote down here maintenance
vehicles
uh but let me say this this is a very
and I want to reiterate what Jason said
earlier this is a very preliminary stage
here tonight we're not voting whether to
do this or not we're not voting whether
the architectural uh the beauty of the
place is appropriate we're not going to
do anything tonight that creates any
decision but I think it's very important
and I really want to thank everybody
who's here tonight
wow you know it's important that we that
are trying to make these decisions we're
just Bexley residents we're not getting
paid to do this either and we're trying
to do the best thing for Bexley we don't
I mean I know Mr gross and I know Mr
Cass I like them both I respect them
both but I'm not I'm neutral I don't
care and everybody on this board has got
no dog in the fight we're trying to make
the best decision our dog is Baxley all
right that's our only dog so uh we want
and that's the same thing with the staff
same thing with Jason Catherine is an
attorney of course so she's highly
prejudiced in favor of her client but
nonetheless she always gives us good
advice but and I would say the same
thing for for Karen and and for Kathy
Rose
we're just trying to figure things out I
think the mayor's in the same position I
want to put him into this as well he's
trying to do what's best for Bexley and
there's a lot of aspects to it but how
it impacts you
individually on a day-to-day basis quite
important and if you didn't come here
tonight and talk to us we wouldn't have
quite the perspective that we have now
so I want to thank everybody for coming
here tonight and for talking to us
because I took a lot of time and I
appreciate that but do we have to do in
some way vote on something tonight
yeah are the board members going to be
able to ask questions
I think absolutely you should ask
questions sure we'll take some time to
do that right now absolutely you want
the the three experts or Mr Cass
you go first and if you have four
questions
um so I I'm just looking through the
Main Street District special permits and
going through that because those are
what we have to answer as a zoning board
and so going through that
um one of the first ones is
um it's under 12 54 14.
um and that's B and it says that it has
to be exceptional architectural and site
design
I don't know I mean just looking at this
it looks like every building I've seen
you know driving down abroad it looks
like the one at Broad and Hamilton
I mean this is Bexley we want it to be
different we want it to be unique so
that is something I I think should come
into play
um and I will say that
I'll defer that to Karen yeah no and I
understand that but that's just
something to look at under the code
so as far as the impact on residential
use
um I do think the traffic study is
really important to make sure we look at
Parkview Brighton
um and I will say even coming out of
this parking lot I'll I'll come out of
here at noon like at Orange Theory
whatever time it is
trying to get out and around to this
traffic light if you are turning left
if there are three cars in the line to
get out there you block the entire way
in and out so I think it's really
important that something has to be done
with that light or the parking because
it's really really difficult tried going
at a busy time
um and trying getting out of there you
barely make one car through a left turn
line we're removing the right turn which
is part of the backup just getting
around to make the left
no it's like when you turn to go out
I don't know if there's one
yeah you're right there you can you can
point to it no not you want to get to
the site the site plan yeah so
yeah right there so
when you go it's the Bexley Square yeah
right here yeah that's so when you it's
one way in One Way Out
for the backs of square okay so you're
coming from the curve to go out to the
left lane you it backs up and you're
stuck yeah we understand yes okay we'll
take a look at that yeah that's good so
that that's a concern getting out of
there I think the more obviously more
um I think
looking at some of the other
um easement issues has there been
consideration as to whether the Bryden
is in entrance only instead of an exit
only that might help with traffic
um going because I think if it's a
one-way in it would slow things as
opposed to a one-way out
um or making even the
sorry the Alexandra one way for people
coming out of the new development make
it a two-way for residents so one way
for people I don't know I'm just trying
to think of ideas that might work
um work with within the code
um and then i i two other things
um I don't know if this has been made
or thought of to be condos or if it's
only an apartment only apartments only
Apartments
um
yeah I mean it's
it is a lot of a lot of new residents I
think
um and I understand the purpose and I
appreciate the purpose
um but I'm wandering too on on the
design because I saw the two building
design as well originally and I think if
you know even a two building design
would help have more common space for
people throughout the community because
it looks like the insular space is just
for residents
um the courtyards are just for residents
so to make it useful green space for the
community would be helpful because it is
taking away some of the Green Space so I
guess that's a question I have just real
quick I would suggest
um so when we went to the one building
the single building we were able to
compress it a little bit in the north
south and get a little bit more green
space or public space out along East
Main Street
um and if you look at that previous
version that we originally submitted
it was a parking on top of the garage on
top of the basement it was a parking
deck basically on the North side really
didn't have any connectivity through
that site because you have a vertical
wall along the west Edge it almost it
basically ran all the way to the north
property line
um we did have an alley between the two
buildings
but that alley had such limited just the
space the the site is so small
um there
was maybe five feet of space between the
northern building and the southern
building at the corner at the pinch
point so I don't know that it was good
the city really has made a a issue of a
positive issue
and you can turn it into a negative the
traffic will go from Drexel all the way
through to Parkview it's like that'd be
the most uncomfortable possible ride
yeah could have so but they want the
connectivity and so one of the things
that I would worry about based like if
you if you come off a bride and make
that an N instead of an out
that would end up being a shortcut for
people getting to Giant Eagle going that
way because you now will be able to do
that because we now with this plan
that's on the same level
okay so that's what I'm saying so a lot
of these things we've thought about they
have to be talked about I get that yeah
okay
um and and and so
um and that's pretty much what tonight
is about is just getting these blocks
out in the opening you guys are going to
have more and more questions there's
there's no question about that and we're
going to have to adapt to the things
that you're going to want and that these
folks want you to do sure on one hand on
the other hand you also have to be able
to adapt to the reality of the site the
egress and Ingress
um and and the and what we think is is
the product we want to put there and the
only other comment I'd make to answer
you the thing you said on on Hamilton
Road those are three-story walk-ups no
but I mean the design looks the same not
even the same materials except for the
brick but anyway I think you need to
look at both of them again or we'll
bring you pictures for you to show you
both that will be in front of
architecture no but I mean like how it's
flat like it's flat like that one is and
that's why we changed all the materials
though we changed all the materials
oh yeah
Mr Turner oh I'm finished thank you oh
I'm sorry how do I just assume you're
finished from your demeanor there yeah
a couple things um
one
when you bring it back I want to see it
in relation to the Gateway ability
because right now the elevation is
higher if you look at the ground
elevation of the current Apartments
there they're already at the top of the
first floor of the Gateway so when
you're talking about doing five stories
it's actually going to be three stories
about
visually above the retail building on
Main Street yeah on Main Street that's
where we are in Maine yeah so I'd like
to see
see that some kind of elevation side on
it yeah the the Alexander at its at its
top point we built it it's 67 feet yeah
but I'm not talking about the Alexander
I'm talking about the the
people
67 feet so I think it's shorter than
Alexander I think yeah
and it has that four-story kind of
corner elements yeah well to the to this
point to the microphone sorry to this
point I don't want to cut you off but
the Architectural Review Board will
require and they'll want to see
contextual elevations
um yeah that's fine so that's that's one
thing I want to say
um I'm a little bit with Heidi on the
I'm not a big I know that's what our
zoning code is but I'm not a huge fan of
like having all the buildings right up
on the side Karen and I have had this
discussion about with with a little bit
of green space but that's kind of just a
personal thing I just want to let you
know on that but the biggest question
for me though is
I I need some clarity on on what the
situation is with with
the Alexander's alley I've someone said
they owned it someone else said it was
an easement what is the rights of that
easement who actually does own the
underlying property
um I'm not real happy if if the traffic
study comes back and shows a lot more
traffic coming through there because
you've got people backing out of garages
into it into a road that are blind you
got people coming in and out of the
parking garage I mean that that's not
really designed to be a major
thoroughfare I mean it's designed to be
accessed to the buildings and access to
the garages and back access to the
existing parking behind Trinity I
understand that but it's just
I want to see the track I mean I really
need to see the traffic study and I
really want clarification as to what
this situation is with that legal
easement because we we just I mean like
I've said I've heard three different
things tonight and I don't know who
controls it who has the rights see
Alexander's property
but what's the easement say I mean
the easement and yours the capital
University's Trinity
I mean that that has to be what it is
yeah but wasn't granted was it granted
to Capital does it have right of
transfer does it have yes
property the question is how how
many cars can be on it that's the
question
we we just can't argue this tonight
because this is
what you would like to see the to me the
point of it is though there's a ton of
discussion about the traffic around the
Alexander and to me there's a huge
question that we don't know the answer
to I'm so I'd like to I'd like that
answer so trying to stop this argument
out here
yeah yeah we can't get in into too much
detail tonight but I but your point is
well taken let's find out what the facts
are as a boy yeah because detail-wise
you're right we don't need we don't know
the exact detail of that but that's an
issue no matter where we end up the
Alexander access is going to be an issue
so we need answers on it that's right
that's correct let me just assure you
for the developer that's a huge issue
and for any lender that's a humongous
issue so they're going to be worried
about that quite a bit and and right we
also it's a huge issue for us as a board
we need to know what's going on right so
that's that's all I had
all right I'll be quick
um I would like to see further study on
the The Alley that goes back up to
Brighton and the possibility to just
convert that to a pedestrian way I'm
having a hard time understanding the
need for exiting to Bryden and throwing
all that traffic up to Bryden and then
no telling where it's going to go from
there I think one of the comments I
heard was
you run the risk of somebody xing out
that way and then speeding up Columbia
which is pretty easy to do there's not a
lot of stop signs I think that is a
really distinctive issue and I think we
need to address that the other thing is
I'm concerned about the way trash is
handled on the site the dumpster yes
it's in the back but there's it's not a
dumpster it's a compactor yeah it's
still trash it has odors
um
I happen to think that that probably
should be in board on the building
um in a space where it's closed in you
don't see it you don't hear it you don't
have to deal with it I don't know how
much possible that is or not but I feel
like it's in an area where it's going to
impact a lot of people that they're
going to be yeah the compactor is
enclosed and there will be a screening
fence around that I'm talking inside the
building like they have over here I
think at the grocery store we'll talk to
the the supplier but I believe that
that'll be a challenge physically trying
to get that thing in and out given High
base space on a dock
it's more maneuverability okay that's
the issue I agree with you there that I
think there's some because the site's
pretty tight with maneuverability but we
can certainly do enough to screen it and
make it invisible
um and deal with it that way and and the
other thing we can do is contract for it
to be picked up often yeah
well once again we don't want to get
into the we don't want to design this
building for you here tonight
the questions of the people that are
likely to vote yeah right you know
exactly and then yeah this is not the
ARB but I this building has to be
distinctively excellent this building is
almost a copy of what you're doing in
Upper Arlington
in plan
in plan it definitely is and in
elevation it definitely is this is an
urban building this is an urban
community and we have to like the uh the
gentleman came up here and taught from
mbbj he was spot on
and I just want to reinforce that
okay
Mr chick
I think you're not on
I'd just like to um thank all my
colleagues here on the board the second
Necco that um in particular Heidi and
Keith I absolutely appreciate what your
your concerns with regards to the
architectural design of the site I find
that it has actually no characteristic
right now that makes me excited for
Bexley
um your building that you live in I
think is an exceptional uh example and I
don't know why each residents can have a
building like you do
you might not want to say the prices in
a rental apartment and go up yeah but
that's a co-op right but I I'm going to
leave uh Continental Realty with um just
one indication of where my vote would be
if there was a vote this evening and
careful now I I understand but I'm going
to carry on with one thing and that is
that this the compactor dumpster
um is an open Refuge right now and it is
a major concern to me and the residents
on short Bryden and unless we see unless
I see an efforts um based on Continental
Realty to address the issues and in
particular what my colleague heat just
raised um I'm going to have a very
difficult time
um considering where this is going
because
um
I am concerned about noxious fumes I am
concerned about the general
um
I just lost the word I was going to say
but I'm just concerned about the
characteristics of our community being
maintained and if it weren't for Giant
Eagle I can't see why I can't work here
thank you
all right
um any other members of the board have
any questions or comments I think was
helpful for you to hear everybody's
position
with a traffic study too with riding the
way it is even if it ends up being
accessed it comes out and there's a stop
sign immediately to the right like I
think that's a mess to me that reminds
me of it fair in the school where it's
like you're going to move the side the
stop signs way apart people don't know
which way they're oh yeah
um so I just want to Sarah and casting
him there yeah yeah that's quite an
intersection yeah
if there's something about that anyway
that's it all right
but Mr Cass gentlemen I mean do you have
any additional comments you'd like to
make I mean I think this has been very
very helpful very helpful to us as a
board I think it's probably been helpful
to you to hear these comments as well
and uh I don't think we need to take any
further action this evening so I think
everybody in the community should
continue to work together here to try to
resolve these issues as best as possible
as I think everybody is doing here
tonight and all the meetings you've had
with everybody I'd like to where was
that dumpster you or the the Masher you
were saying that Giant Eagle has that
you think is is done right or wrong I
believe it's done right you do and it's
right next door here I'll go let's right
next door here that's correct Outdoors
though no but it's also heavily
protected into compactor
yeah so like if you go to our condo
building that we built on Cassidy the
city had us do an entire building
that are recycling and trash is in an
entire building that's a 4-4 building
with single families on each floor yeah
but still it was a whole big building so
we can do that I mean we can we can make
a a an attractive enclosure top on it
everything to protect everything but but
we cannot put it inside the the garage
itself you know but I'll go look at that
and and take a peek and we're gonna have
plenty of time to discuss this I got it
okay all right no if you liked it or not
because I'm gonna go look at it that's
what I yeah all right I would like to uh
ask everybody we have three more cases
the people that have had those cases
have waited a long time I would ask that
if you're gonna leave let's get
positions
the first case that's left on the docket
is case
bzap-23-24 involving 2753 Dale
the applicant is Patrick Manley the
owners are Brian and Jessica olszewski
who's here on behalf of the applicant
sir please
um do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth the whole truth nothing but
the truth I do thank you very much thank
you uh the applicant in this case is
Seeking a variance to permit and a
special permit to permit an and a garage
expansion and conversion to a rec room
we'll have to see how that goes Kathy
could you give us a snap perspective on
this case are you ready to do so after
that extravaganza
hmm
I wonder if we could not close enough
the doors are gone
we can't even close the doors
out okay
oh
all right in that case leave those doors
up
so this is an existing 22 by 24 detached
garage at this location the property
backs up to four neighboring properties
and does not have an alley the applicant
is looking to install dormers on the
second floor of the existing garage and
remodel the interior and exterior to
eliminate the enclosed parking
to accommodate a rec room on the first
floor first floor and storage on the
second floor
so according to code section
1252.15 c
special permits for functional Dormers
shall be based upon the following
considerations the extent to which the
proposed Dormers would face an adjacent
property window Dormers that face inward
are onto an alley are preferred over
window Dormer spacing onto adjacent
property these Dormers do face a
neighboring property
a setback for the proposed accessory
structure
uh
sets back in excess of the district
requirements provided
for a standard garage however
with a outward facing Dormer it's
required to be 10 feet the existing
garage is actually eight feet three
inches from the rear property line
the design and massing of the Dormers
facing onto the adjacent property
Dormers facing onto adjacent properties
have frosted glass proposed on the south
windows
according to 1252.15 D3 Dormer Ridge
Heights shall be at least one foot below
the primary Ridge height
and in this case the Dormer is at the
same Ridge height as the garage roof
accessory structures and uses with
outward facing Dormers shall be set back
at least 10 feet
with the operational garage doors and
adequate depth for standard size
Vehicles the modifications will no
longer provide standard size parking due
to the addition of the staircase
or accommodate Vehicles this application
initially came in as an in-law suite in
a detached garage complete with kitchen
and first floor bedroom and a full bath
on the second floor and an attached
storage shed an in-law suite is only
allowed in the R1 R2 R3 zoning District
as a unit within the single family
dwelling and there are six zoning
District it is conditional use but also
only allowed within the existing
single-family dwelling I explained to
the applicant that this was not a matter
for the bizap and only city council
could consider as a consomatic variance
the applicant next submitted this bzap
application it's resubmitted with a
recreational room on the first floor
and steps to provide access to the
second floor and Dormer on the North and
South sides of the road
there are codes that require a
replacement garage when demolishing a
garage as follows 12 2305g the
demolition of a detached garage in order
to preserve the historic stock of
enclosed off-street parking spaces
within the city no detached garage shall
be demolished partially demolished or
removed until an application with
respect
to such demolition or removal has has
been submitted
and reviewed by the board
and has a certificate of appropriateness
and no circumstances shall demolition of
a detached garage be approved without a
replacement plan if said demolition
would reduce the number of enclosed
parking spaces below the two enclosed
parking spaces that exist
there's also Bexley code section 125215
G6
a garage must be able to functionally
accommodate vehicles with operational
garage bay doors and adequate depth for
standard sized vehicles
the garage is being modified into an
accessory structure with modifications
which will reduce the parking spaces to
less than the attic adequate depth for
standard size vehicles and can no longer
be used as a garage I'm not sure how to
view the transition of this garage to an
accessory structure when there are codes
that require the replacement when
demolished although this garage is not
being demolished it is being modified
too long no longer meet the intent of
the code for parking purposes
I will defer to the zoning board for
their view of this matter in addition
the variance and special permit
the applicant did not believe there was
a variance involved however we did call
out there was the setback issue yeah I
do agree okay uh the ARB did review the
application for design only and it was
consensus of the board that the Dormer
was appropriate
staff's recommendations only if zoning
is approved if the board finds it
appropriate to Grant a variance and
special permit I would recommend the
following conditions
there will need to have two off-street
parking spaces in the rear yard provided
subject to staff approval
it shall not be used as a dwelling unit
if demolished it was a garage and in
accordance with 12 2305g it would be
required to be replaced with an enclosed
garage
with a garage with the minimum of two
parking spaces as the original garage
okay wow
that was a long diatribe there
Mr Manley why don't you tell us why
we should approve the variance and
a special permit all right great uh
thank you for allowing me to come
tonight I know you guys have had a long
evening so I'll try to keep it brief
thank you for being patient as well
um
just to clarify a couple things and and
to Kathy's credit she's worked through a
very long process on this with what the
owners were originally looking to do
versus what
um what they compromised on I guess in
their own mind but they realized was
reality uh make a long story short we're
actually as Kathy mentioned we're not
actually demolishing the garage we're
working in the in the within the same
structure that's there and
um and converting proposing to converted
to an accessory structure to the best of
my knowledge we as an accessory
structure we meet all of the various
requirements in the zoning code for an
accessory structure with the exception
of the rear setback line where we're 20
inches too close to the rear property
line as she said it's 8.3 feet the code
when you add a dormer to an accessory
building the rear setback goes from
three feet to 10 feet so we're coming up
a little bit shorter on it when I
discuss this with the owners and by the
way they couldn't be here tonight
because they had to go out of town for a
family emergency the other night
um but the
the discussion revolved around
do they want to build a new building
tear down or just keep it after we had a
lot of discussions on it and especially
me coming from I'm an architect and I
come from a strong background of
preservation and and and restoration
work
um and I used to be on as Jason was I
used to be on the Italian Village
commission for a number of years and um
the uh the issue that I saw is even
though this garage is hardly considered
a historic structure it's 74 years old
you know it was built in 1949 I
personally look at that as a historic
structure even though it's just a garage
careful
but it is you know that neighborhood as
you know is a post World War II
neighborhood that grew up pretty quickly
and I personally do put place a lot of
value on keeping original building stock
so with all the discussions the
trade-off that we looked at is sure they
could have they could propose to tear
this down build something 20 inches
further away and basically build
something maybe a little more elaborate
than what they're able to do but I do
think there's a lot of value in keeping
it and the way I look at look at that
setback is that the the lot the
neighbors behind that would be the ones
most affected by anything that's done on
their property to the South it's a deep
lot it's 165 foot deep lot there's trees
back there are privacy fence there our
houses
probably 110 feet 120 feet away from
from this property and we're not really
talking about a lot of this whoops I'm
sorry we're only talking about you know
being
this far too close in the Pro and the
building really isn't too high it's in
modest size uh garage it's a little
smaller than the one we saw earlier this
evening
um so I'm requesting that approval of
that variance uh based primarily on the
fact that I feel that having a little
less room to the property line
is a good trade-off to be able to keep
the original structure on the property I
guess that's where I'm coming from on
that as far as the other items I think
Kathy mentioned something about the
Dormer height on that about a 12 inch
maybe I misinterpreted it but I think
that there there is a place in the
zoning code where they with the Dormers
that it actually asks that the Dormers
actually start from the peak and it may
conflict with that section that you
mentioned but I took that to actually
mean that the bottom of the Dormer Eve
would be a foot lower than the peak and
we're actually one foot seven inches
below it
um but um it says that may need a little
clarification Dormers facing adjacent
property Dormer faces onto adjacent
property frosted glass proposal rumor
Ridge height shall be at least one foot
below the primary Ridge height yeah okay
that part I I assumed was since we don't
have a ridge on the dorm or it's a shed
I assumed we were talking about if you
if we proposed a shed Dormer with a peak
on it that had a ridge I was looking at
the shed Dormer is not applying and
trying to keep it lower as low as we
could because there's not actually a
ridge on a shed dorm I can defer to
Karen on that but that's been the
typical
right yeah
okay so I was what you actually man on
yeah yeah but I believe there's another
section of the code and I don't have it
with me right here that actually says
that it's supposed to start at the peak
then it goes up there so I can I'd be
happy to work with
yeah
it looks better when it's down when it's
off okay because I think we might be
able to do something to adjust
yeah exactly
a little better and more appropriate
okay I'm willing to work with film out
on whatever to clarify that so I don't
think to me on my side that's not a deal
killer and I don't want to make it that
okay
um it makes us to know and the very last
thing that Kathy you mentioned some
things on our North Street Parking
um I they're actually since we're not
really demolishing the garage
um and there's no intent to have this a
garage although the design is such that
if a future owner or if these owners
decided they wanted to reconvert it back
to a garage we haven't ruined that and
that's one of the main reasons why we're
wanting to keep garage doors
because yeah they would have to remove
the stairs at that point yeah in order
to maintain the
162 square foot per parking space yeah
so they converted it back they would
have to do that okay absolutely it's
gone from 22 down to 17 feet
and then we also have uh you mentioned
um other parking spaces we do have
um the parking that's actually the back
area behind on the side of the house and
the back of the house is paved and
there's ample room for more than enough
room for two parking space legal parking
spaces
um according to the zoning code so they
already have that in place I mean I can
provide you the documentation on it
um but we do that already exists because
they actually don't even use this garage
they've been doing all the parking you
know for years on the outside so
uh but anyway that's that's all I really
had to offer on those items right there
okay can I answer any questions please
is there anybody in the audience that
for against this uh application
no okay questions from members of the
board yeah so of course yes could you
just kind of like
flip the stairwell like shifted off to
the right and then you have enough room
on the left side for a particle and now
that you'd ever not that you'd ever use
it but then you get away from not having
a brown garage space you see what I'm
saying well I mean I guess you could do
that but then I felt that that would
have to move our Dormer clear up to one
side and I really felt they were like
lopsided and look kind of I'm just
saying like
stairs coming up to the platforms and
all that they can go from the right that
was between the sink and the sterile it
looks like it's wide enough to cannabis
Corner Oh you mean keep it in the same
location the problem is then when you
get up to the upstairs then there's
really not enough Headroom coming up to
the top of the steps I'm literally just
thinking the bottom sets from the left
side and the right side
[Music]
we would have to move the Dormer because
there's not enough head room in the
Dormer I think one of the other drawings
we might have a cross section on it
and trying to figure out yeah
but but it's a Headroom issue that was
that was what it was really tight to fit
it in there to meet the building code on
the Headroom oh thank you
had room for the Attic
for just on the stairs yeah just for the
attic yeah
Mr Hall what do you think about the
Dormer height
I I agree with what we were talking
about earlier okay the ridge needs to
pass probably should pass through and
the Dormer should be lower I think it's
a cleaner detail
especially at the edge conditions too
um I'm fine with this I'm I'm having a
harder time though Kathy understanding
it's not a garage anymore
so it's an accessory structure
how is that permissible how does that is
that what we're going to give a variance
for
this is no longer a garage it says in
order to preserve the historic stock I
think closed Upstream parking space in
the city not necessarily the term of the
structure for the fact that they had to
composed to parking so once modified
into something else
in the yard
that's why I'm just sharing this with
you because I'm I'd rather err on the
side of caution well that's it so I
think the other questions use
what's the use I mean I'm sitting here
wondering well one question I do have is
the space going to be conditioned yes so
we'll have Heating and Cooling yes okay
so
what prevents them maybe from using this
as a bedroom
and is that even permissible
two of the three
okay
yeah now in all fairness originally when
I came to Kathy what in February I think
it was they were wanting they were
thinking that maybe they could put some
kind of a mother-in-law Suite or
something in there
um but once
once we had the discussions it said that
this is really not
feasible to do this to work
um they scaled it back to what they
really need which is basically just a
room for their three kids to kind of
hang out and watch TV and use it for you
know I think it's kind of a cool little
it's like a detached family room exactly
and the lack of a better term I call it
a rec room because I felt like I had to
yeah something it's living space so
that's where my wheels starts spinning
and whether or not that's permissible by
the zoning code or not and whether we
need to give that a variance or whatever
you know special use
attached garages put an accessory
structure in the rear yard just as an
office space right
okay
so
are the garage door is going to remain
on it I'm sorry I'm sorry the garage
door is going to remain on it yeah so
new we've proposed new garage doors but
I mean like traditional garage doors yes
other glass accordingly but they're
glass yeah I'm sorry they're glass but
they open and close they open and close
so like in the summertime if they're
cooking out or the kids are playing you
know they can open it up and and
um and just leave it open so you know
they can come in in and out so it's
going to be a really informal kind of a
of a space but that was sort of what I
was alluding to earlier that if later on
say if they stay in that home and their
children grow up and they decide they
don't really need the rec room or if
another owner comes in it's an easy
conversion back to a garage because they
can just tear out the stairs and you
know the garage doors are there
everything else is still there can one
car fit in it or I think that's what you
were looking for yeah not really because
they don't want to use it as a garage no
I I know I was just curious then it
still can maintain the you know
idea that it is a garage if a car can
still go in there and it has garage
doors maybe a short more compact car
maybe but I mean
it might be
the accessory structure cannot be
developed you can't have too much
and that's why the city has been a lot
of iterations of this this board has
done a lot of this and yeah performance
reviews to make sure that you can't have
the three components which is you know
cooking baths
it may not contain more than two of the
following elements the bedroom the
kitchen or a bathroom
so that's sort of how we end up with
this even if you do a lot about a garage
or whatever you cannot have an in-law
suite has to be attached to the primary
dwelling it can't be separated and if
you have these separated structures you
can't become dwelling units so the city
has chosen you while some of these uses
either upstairs have these is unusual
this is I think the first one where
you've had one where it just is
eliminating a garage altogether and
that's kind of the struggle of if you
tore it down you could eliminate the
garage but could you eliminate it by
change of use just parking outside and
that's that's been her struggle is is
how do you make those all work together
okay if you've got somebody who needs a
variance to be able to do it yeah and I
agree 100 with Kathy we have to maintain
as you know in the Resident any of the
residential districts to off street
parking spaces and which we do have
behind there because we've got a pretty
good paved area uh and everything back
there right now so we're not proposing
to eliminate parking on the property and
we still will meet you know the code
requirements well the definition
and I would also say that's
the kind of avoid the problem that avoid
the code provision itself in a living in
a garage
that she made of
it should be a condition if you're going
to grow in a variance and approve all of
this that if that garage comes down
even though it's a rep room you know
um then maybe a garage can come up
because there is a pro version that
would say take a brush
does that encourage people to convert
their existing garages to rec rooms
well as a matter of fact we if I could
remind the board we saw a case similar
to this right when we came back from the
shutdown I remember we were in this room
and somebody wanted to convert a garage
into an art studio I remember you recall
that with the with the noxious fumes
um here you know the Oxford American
Dictionary defines a garage there's a
building for housing a motor vehicle or
Vehicles the code here I can't even get
to the variance on the Dormer because we
are constructively demolishing a garage
this there's going to be no more storage
for this and therefore we're leaving the
property without an attached garage and
I don't see how two cars are going to be
able with the use of the family wants to
utilize this with and I know that
they're a very active family they're
very involved in the community that I
could see this being
um an additional use that's going on I
don't think that they're going to store
these two cars on um on this part on
their driveway they already do they do
yeah they have they've they've I've
driven by them they've never parked in
their garage
code because I I guess I guess my point
is I mean I know I know what you're
saying about
you know the converting and then it's
eliminating a garage but but the the
code is pretty clear regarding
Demolition and we're not demolishing the
building and we're the building is
starting to demolishing the use and
that's what we're working yeah talk
about the use it talks about the
structure and and and and demolition
garage once again is a building that
houses vehicles
yeah but but we have to follow the code
though is because the code says it just
has a garage
but it doesn't say the use it says the
it might let me let me finish my point
is is when we're talking about
demolition we're talking about tearing
down a structure not moving a use from
indoors to Outdoors that's not a
demolition
you know the demolition is actually
tearing it down and we're not doing that
in fact we're we're going out of our way
and they're they're giving up some
things as I said earlier
to be able to preserve the original
building and I think I had a lot to do
with that because I as I said I push for
you know reuse of buildings rather than
you know I don't like to see things torn
down I mean that's my one of the things
that I I will
um I will throw my voice over at the
chairman because he's often concerned
about setting precedent here this we
worked very hard very late in the
evening sometimes defining what these
Dormers are and what the uses were and
um
I'm just going to express my concern
with regards to this proposal I'll just
leave it at that
I I if I could just say one thing I'm
sorry I
I'm really struggling to see how I get
the uses different but it's the same
structure right it can be a garage it
still has two two garage doors that can
open up you could still park a car in
there if you take the stairs out you can
move the stairs you could do whatever
you wanted I mean it's still a garage
right I mean I
that's that's where I struggle with this
because it's structurally the same thing
right
I mean if they I mean once converted
it's not it's not a garage
but what if what if so I mean they make
car dollars you can pull your car on and
roll it around what if they put it in
the garage and turn it sideways
I mean it doesn't need the code size
requirement for parking space well no
but I'm saying if it was in the sideways
in the front it would fit and it would
be the and it would meet the codes
you didn't say that the so that if they
have to have two cars it has to have one
for two
do attached to our street in your
residential district building too
awesome well they have the off street
but
it's not a garage
well then there's a lot of people in
Bexley that have accessory structures
because I know a lot of people that
don't park in their garages yeah so my
neighbor does well and I think you sort
of say it because the code doesn't
require a garage in fact according to
code somebody could build a new home and
not build a garage very unlikely today
you know that anybody would do that but
they are allowed to do that because the
requirement as you just mentioned is is
not to build a to have a garage is to
have two legal off-street parking spaces
which they will still have you know
going in there
okay
well well well
I thought we were going to end that long
one with an easy one and we got one
that's a little tougher here sorry
that's not that's not your problem all
right
well
to the members of the board feel like
we're ready to call the question on this
one do you feel like you would like to
have a vote on this or do you feel like
as a result of what you're hearing you'd
like to go back and tweak it some more I
mean I I got to give you at least that
well alternative no thank you I would
like to have a vote but I would like to
include in the motion you know we talked
about a couple of things Kathy had some
things on here Keith
and Karen had mentioned about the roof
thing that we could I'd be happy to
include those in them sure and then we
can do that and I'd be even happy to go
back to ARB if we needed to okay on
those small items you know going in
there you'd probably need to go back to
Karen that's what we would put in there
you know yeah but so you're saying let's
condition the vote on the fact that
you'll move the Dormer down eight ten
inches 12 inches whatever it takes to
separate it from the very
I don't know all these architectural
terms but the top of the garage
the ridge thank you very much
yeah yeah and that we are going to
provide two you know uh code complaint
off street parking spaces okay uh I
think that is an important issue because
I don't want anybody get the impression
that we're trying to
good way of not having parking no no I I
think that's important you put that in
there and we make that a condition of
the vote and the other the other item I
would like to include in here if we
could
um based on the discussion is to make it
clear that we are not going to demolish
that structure and in fact I would even
be willing to Pro propose that if there
was ever any consideration to uh to
demolish it in the future that this
whole accessory this whole approval the
requesting like that would become null
and void and then that way that that to
me in my mind that would protect two
things that would protect
um that would protect the structure and
that it was also protect some future
owner from kind of trying to come in the
back door to do some I don't know what
that project would be to maybe do a
bigger project or some other project in
there
um in other words everything would
revert to the to the original use as a
garage I mean I I don't know once we
give the variance you know the variance
kind of goes with the land right you
know and new owners come in
no I know you can put a condition on it
but the condition being what if they
sell the property and a
you know if the garage is demolished
that's the condition if the garage is
demolished
I mean maybe I'm the only one in the
room that wants to preserve that garage
I don't know it's not one of the great
historic uh no it's not I I just again
as I said I think it's important I'm
sorry I'm repeating myself but I think
it's important because it's part of the
original housing stock of the
neighborhood that's where I see the
value of it uh you know going in there
so I got it
okay so if we condition the
in the findings of fact conclusions the
law we only have one variance right it's
a setback is that correct
yeah I know we have a special permit but
of in terms of a variance it's the three
foot
and and we're in 20 within 20 inches of
that back there right yeah so it's a
pretty existing condition yeah
of course the building is already there
am I missing something that's right no
yeah
laughs
I see
yeah
okay but we're putting a groomer in but
nobody's moving the wall so the wall is
where it is now it's going to be there
later just now it needs a variance
interesting okay
some architectures that come up with
that
uh anyway all right
so do we want to put is it the
importance of Voters on the board that
we put something in here that says
this variance is conditioned upon the
fact that if there is a demolition
it must go back to a garage
yes important to you
yes I I I do have a question if if he
was tearing it completely down
but if he was going to tear it down it
has to come back as a garage
it has to be a garage the replacement
structure would have to be a garage it
could not be a rec room
as proposed today
yeah and I think that's kind of
important for I mean not only for the
reasons you were talking about earlier
about having a garage and everything but
also if not that
and correct me if I'm wrong looking at
this incorrectly but the way I see it is
that could give somebody in the future
the potential to go back there and build
whatever building they want
yeah and that's what I would like to see
prevent it because that's not the plan
yep so I think that's the intent here so
that as a condition of the variance that
if the garage in the future is torn down
or the rec room whatever it is today
whatever whatever we are approving today
structure the structure is torn down
then it has to be rebuilt as a garage
per the code or whatever yeah
okay so basically all this disappears
and it's just the way it was originally
yeah
but then somebody could move in too and
take out the counter take out the steps
and then reuse it as a garage also and
that's kind of okay right there's
nothing wrong with that
use a ladder to access the attic on an
occasional basis
yeah
all right
you think you can they're ready to go
home you can fashion findings of Bank
conclusion of law in this regard
God bless you
yes
[Music]
um
section 12
26.11c have been met in a special permit
in accordance with
1252.15 c
and variance from Bexley code section
1252.15 G3 to allow a an existing
detached garage to have a functional
Dormer
with the following conditions
that the applicant will have to provide
parking spaces on the rear yard
in a planned form subject to staff
approval
it's so not the existing detached rush
it shall not be used as a dwelling unit
and three if demolished
it was a garage and in accordance with
12 2305g it will be required to be
replaced with a garage with a minimum of
two parking spaces as the original
garage hey Kathy you you didn't say two
parking spaces and the first
oh there will need to be have two off
street parking spaces in a rear yard
provided subject to staff approval in a
planned form
we will include that Ridge in there too
uh
we want Karen do we want the origin and
that's this that's the special permit
um
oh so you're gonna modify that so yeah
modify the Dormer you meet the one foot
to be to be lowered from the ridge
lower than
Dormer 2B lowered
to meet
Ridgeline requirements or Karen's
approval further subject to The Design
Consultants review and approval
uh
1.7 inches of the variance of the
dormant
for the setback oh for the setback yes
that was the to Grant the variance to
the
125 to 2.15 C
yeah seven inch three inch seven you
know it's one one foot seven inches 1.7
inches yeah
20 inches that's 8.3 so it's 1.7 feet
did you guys get all that yeah you you
did yeoman's job there
all right
does that sound
right to you no yeah that sounds very
good thank you okay
do any board members want to make any
alterations to the signings effect
conclusions of Law and if not
I would entertain a motion to approve
the findings of that volusia's law Paul
I make a motion to approve thank you Mr
Hall
thank you Mr Turner
Kathy when you get done
writing your notes please call the roll
Mr Hall
yes
Mr Turner yes
Miss Dorne
yes
Mr Schick
yes and I'd like to thank my colleagues
for bringing good the facts to light
thank you
Mr renby Hall
my vote doesn't matter again but I'll
vote Yes and uh you're uh
on your way to doing something with
something I'm not sure what's being
converted or what but yeah but good luck
with it and thank you for your time and
your patience thank you very much and
I'm sorry this took longer and I I
that's all right can I say one last
thing I sat through the that whole
process tonight and I gotta hand it to
you guys I was very impressed I've been
to over 230 various meetings over my
career and I've been on several
different boards and everything like
that and this may be the best one that
I've ever run you kept a very
big Angry Crowd under control I think he
handled it very fairly between the
developer and the residents and uh we're
very respectful for everybody so I'm
going to hand it to you guys did a nice
job thank you very much great thank you
thank you
sir all right the next case
is application number
bzap
23-25 261 North Drexel the applicant is
David stock and the owners are Jamie and
Margo Lewis and you are Jamie Jamie
would you raise your right hand to be
sworn do you swear in a firm or a firm I
should say that any testimony you give
the board this evening will be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth I do thank you I could hardly get
that out of my mouth that's been I've
said it so many times tonight I'm just
so glad I'm last
maybe I'm not
thank you for your patience
the applicant is seeking approval for a
special permit to allow a 40 inch stone
column
columns and auto entry Court over a 12.5
foot wide
aperture of some sort of tsunami now
it's going to get really confusing Kathy
and we're going to punt on the pillars
right that's what we talked about today
well hunt on the pillars okay and it's
actually the right the cut the drive
right here in front off at Drexel okay
not the actual auto core at the back
okay so now once you just take us
through it and then we'll have her give
us a report
if you're changing so that we know what
you're what you're what we're doing here
tonight what's the height on what
originally submitted on that it what it
was we we are going to go ahead and just
meet code at this point in terms of the
high in terms of height of the columns
doesn't even need to be addressed
doesn't need it need to be addressed
today it's just the uh variant the
driveway uh variance okay so now I
understand so okay Kathy please give us
a staff report on this matter the
proposed expansion of this driveway is
centered on the driveway at the front
entry it technically requires a five
foot five point five foot variance
for the person that widens along the
east side of the driveway for a distance
of 30 feet
the applicant has a so this is a 12 and
a half fee is the maximum width for a
driveway they're adding this circular
Drive which attaches to the existing
drive at the upper half that exits out
at the corner and being that continues
back to the off street parking it meets
code the property width is more than 150
feet so that allows a circular Drive in
the front right but because of that
small section that's in front of the
entryway is
wider it's wider and and I'm only going
to click countless going off to the
right because that's everything else
goes into the house so it doesn't matter
I see so I mean it's requiring about a
5.5 foot
variance I see to the width limit
that's nice
it's just a brighter to provide a drop
off and uh the board finds it
appropriate to Grant a variants it
should include conditions that it not
been used for overnight parking a
landscape plan to screen the drop-off
area subject to further review and
approval by a landscape consultant are
those conditions acceptable to you they
are and is there anything you need to
add I think this is pretty obvious now
that you're taking a column I do not
okay thank you very much thank you very
much appreciate your brevity
is there anybody in the audience that's
for against this matter I know we still
have to vote is there anybody in the
audience that's here on this case I
didn't think so since there's two
patient guys in the back corner there
um any members of the board have any
questions or comments about this I don't
think there's anything to uh
hieroglyphic about this is there all
right
yeah it's it's a great great book you
just start giving out variances too all
right Kathy I think we can have findings
affect conclusions of law
yeah you're our favorite applicant of
the night for
minute 12. some of you'll probably write
in saying
you didn't like me I was another
applicant
they're still listening
finding is a fact
board for application number
bzap-23-25 property located at 261 North
Drexel
consideration of the application for
post variance and evidence and testimony
before it the board finds the applicant
has proven the criteria to Grant an area
of variance in Mexico at section 122611c
have been met and a 5.5 foot variance
from Mexico section
1262.01 e to allow a 17
0.5 foot wide driveway for a distance of
30 feet at the front entrance
should be approved as submitted
cool sound good to you it does
all right oh do I did we get the
conditions in there I do
what did they do with it was um
overnight parking plan
by the design consultant and no
overnight parking yeah that sounds great
thank you very much correct answer
um
can I have a motion to approve the
findings conclusions of law so moved
thank you can have a second second thank
you Ms Doran
Kathy please call the roll
Mr chick yes Mr Hall yes Turner yes Mrs
yes I vote Yes too you've got it and uh
it's a nice looking project good thank
you so much I need all that much
patience to staying here this late and
by the way your wife is worried about
you because she didn't know if your
phone was dead or something bad happened
there
[Laughter]
they're doing a huge addition which
meets code so it only had to go to ARB
oh neat well good luck with it's a nice
looking project
you'll need some luck wish us luck yeah
right all right final female malls we
used to say in French class uh
application
bzap-23-26
1011 South Remington the applicant is
Caleb Frost the owners are David and Amy
Gruenberg and the applicant is seeking
approval of a variance to allow a porch
Edition at the rear of the principal
structure or overlapping Pavilion both
of which are proposed at five foot eight
inches from the side property line
sir your name is David grunberg all
right David would you raise your right
hand and if you can still stay awake
during this thing do you swear or affirm
that any testimony you give us tonight
tonight will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth so help
me God
I try to keep that religious stuff out
just to be smooth you know but yes thank
you all right
um Kathy are you ready to give us a
little background on this one I am
I thought I was done there for a minute
yeah you know
and thanks for your patience to wait all
this time you guys I mean it it's a
that's a long time to wait so I
apologize for that all right
um
there was an application received on a
minor architecture review application
which included a 16 by 16
timber frame roof Pavilion over an
existing patio at the rear of the house
the new structure roof was close enough
to the roof to overhang the house roof
staff did not find the proposed manner
in which it was located to be ideal or
may not function properly in situations
such as snow accumulating where the
structures overlap the design consultant
had concerns over the overall appearance
we suggested the applicant pull the
structure further from the house however
the applicant was not trying was trying
to Center the structure over an existing
patio
we also suggested in addition instead of
a freestanding structure
proposed
[Music]
instead of yeah
we're going to submitted a portrait
Edition as well
which if approved would require a 2.2
foot variance from the required eight
foot setback from the side property line
undercut section 125209 the pergola as a
freestanding structure is required to be
a minimum of three feet from the side
property line
staff will defer to the board on the
appropriate Design This has not been
before A or B and if the bees app finds
either designed to be appropriate
final design review of The Perch roof
Edition can be deferred to the ARB on
September 14th or which I haven't given
notice for or the design consultant for
the detached pergola based on any
recommendations from the cortisone
implant
okay
all right
Mr Greenberg tell us why you're doing
this and which way you'd rather go and
let us let's hear what what the story is
here the original design is intended to
cover the existing patio keeping it dry
pretty much period and decides for quiet
enjoyment of our backyard gotcha
all right and
elevation again it says here or
overlapping have you decided
well if you guys come up with the extra
1700 bucks I'll attach it to the roof I
see which is option b
option b gotcha
so you really want us to vote on option
A
at this point
I just want to put a roof over them
you didn't know it was going to be this
hard did you I didn't know yeah no
okay
I take it you're not here to complain
about this
back to this point
you can certainly speak if you'd like to
you know I want to make sure you have
the opportunity right all right
um
okay members of the board
fire away questions or comments
[Music]
I mean they're all over them I mean and
they don't come to the board I mean
typically Karen and I sign off on them
but in this case this is such an odd
location we had concerns and so we
deferred to the board if they find it
appropriate but I'm just saying
thank you
I saw one of Big Lots that I thought
about buying it come home set it up a
little bit but I'd have to get a permit
for that I mean I'm just wondering
because I didn't even realize yeah
people typically applying for a shorter
it's a minor Architectural Review and if
it's under 200 square feet you don't
need a building permit
so you do need design review and Zoning
people
what about a little bro
I'm not trying to be a smart-up I
understand yeah sure I had no idea yeah
that's when the code enforcement knocks
on it yeah
I don't really have any issue with this
um I mean I guess it's on him if if it
has damage to his own roof I mean that's
his problem yeah that's his choice if he
wants to put it there and finds out it
causes roof damage I mean that's kind of
where I am I don't
I don't see it
being you know something that
I think it actually looks a little odder
to do the flat roof over it than it does
to have this but that's my opinion
in other words you don't think it's
negative enough that to draw a negative
vote
but you're also
and and basically if there's any
negative to the structure it really is
his problem he's the one making the
application if he gets it and there's
problems it's not he's not going to call
you that's right that would be very
unhelpful
the detached structure does not require
variance but the rough extension that
sells I see is this an accessory
structure then it is it's just pushed
right up to the house and overhangs the
house well that's a bad detail well it's
exactly not touching the house well it's
it's still it's a bad detail the way
they're they're kind of connecting to
each other I know that's not what we're
here really to talk about but and then
with the water shutting off of that to a
gutter system well to the existing
gutter system right correct so that
gutter is probably going to get
overwhelmed
um they go out to the street never had a
problem with them all right
he's saying you're doubling the waters
the water goes off of both sides of the
house so that that structure is not
going into one gutter it's going into
two
that both go out to the street
well he's talking about he's talking
about
yeah the new roof on the on the
structure is going to shed water onto
the existing roof that is already
shedding water into a nice and gutter no
there's a gutter over that uh hip roof
all the way all the way around all the
way around there's another gutter system
yeah
good thinking
he's already thought of this listen my
wife didn't want the water on the yard
so yeah
you know I'm married I understand yes
thank you
yeah you know architecturally that
detail how they're sort of just jammed
up together is doesn't look good it is
not good but that's not what we're here
to vote on tonight well flip over to the
other picture then
that one right there yeah so
that's not good either is that it sticks
out on the one side it just protrudes
out yeah I mean I I think at this stage
the question is
do we have a problem giving him a
variance
whether we like the design or not it's
not our that's not our issue is it I
don't think yeah well Karen and I
weren't comfortable so we're on the side
of clash and sending it to the board
only one of these needs a variance that
pergola detached but overhangs that's a
design issue but it doesn't require
variance and it doesn't have to go to
ARB
we're only voting on one thing then if
he goes the other way he needs a
variance so if he leaves here tonight
and we approve that he can go either way
make his decision later
am I am I reading that right he needs a
variance for the roof that's attached I
understand yeah so he needs nothing for
this but he he wants he'd rather do this
it's your design approval because Karen
and I are deferring to the board for the
design this is your number one choice
right here that I'm looking at this was
the first choice okay so if you could if
you do that without our approval
do we even need to vote tonight
you're you're approving this because
Karen and I did not approving the design
okay
yeah we're we're
really feeling authoritative tonight
yeah well it's a bad detail because why
that that's what I don't understand
because it's just the the the pergola if
you want to call it that is just slammed
up against the house it's not integrated
with the house you know you if you wanna
it really should be if this is if this
is a if this is going to sit you know
provide the protection for the patio
um and this is the structure this is the
design you want to use it should be
disengaged from the house it's not
touching the house yeah yeah but he says
he's saying just visually it should be
further away but then you don't protect
the patio well that's the patio should
move with it yeah
um there's a concrete pad underneath
that it's not moving yeah I mean there's
different forces working against each
other so then when you go to your your
other which
I don't understand that what I don't
understand this issue coming why is this
line come all the way up on the side
here and pass over
why does it come this far back what is
this
so if that was a hip that was truly
framed in to that Back Lean too because
that rips wider
the roof's wider than the building that
that roof is wider than the building oh
well that's why there's no Eve on this
side I'm not giving you 1700 here's what
you need here's what you need to
understand Architects are artists you
know and so they have a sort of it
doesn't look or feel good I'm I'm a
brother of an architect so I I know how
they think right and but in general
we're not
Restless I'm a lawyer I'm certainly not
an artist right I'm just here what's the
zoning problem what do I need to do not
do and I think what what if you tell us
well we have to approve the design
correct so I mean from my perspective I
I feel like Ms Dorne does
may not the be the most beautiful thing
in the world to an artist but if it's
okay with you it's probably okay with me
no
this is
vote for the variance or vote for a
certificate appropriately can you do
both I make a motion can you do both
well I've got I've got option A and I've
got option b if if everybody is hard up
enough that option A is not the choice
then give me the variance on option b
and then I can make that decision
yeah I tell you I would I'm not telling
you how I vote but if if option b was on
the table I think that should go to a or
b
you're gonna have a lot more trouble
getting being approved then let's go
with a Bye by ARB probably and possibly
by this board they're gonna be worse
than me I promise you
were five of me they're all artists on
that works
I told him exactly Karen and I have told
him pull it away from the house but he
didn't want and you're gonna have one
member of this board who's going to be
looking at the fact that the addition of
the pergola sticks into the side
variants which somebody has a lot of
issues Siberians so let's work too also
true
yeah I would highly recommend we'll go
with it so okay with a now can you read
the just a yes version yes
finding is a fact and decision of the
board for application number B
zap-23-26 for property located at 1011
South Remington Remington
uh
the board
finds that a certificate of
appropriateness
should be issued for plan a which
includes a pergola
at the rear of the property
to be constructed as submitted there you
go
all right
absolutely right okay you get the
reference option A
yeah it's an egg yeah option A okay
um
do I have a motion
to approve whether you're going to vote
Yes or no I still need to move Schick Mr
Schick second
thank you Mr Turner
all right Kathy
run it by the roll call here and we'll
see how the vote goes Miss Dorne
yes
Mr Hall
no
do you want to say why
just because it goes against my core a
little bit and you've got enough votes
so this is public record and I don't
want to see my peers voting yes for this
it's nothing against you let's let's
hope so Mr Turner yes Mr Sheikh yes
chairman B Hall
so he needs four votes right
no he needs three three oh three out of
five
I forget I thought we changed that rule
majority of yeah majority now yeah yeah
we did change that well just to back up
Mr Hall I'll vote no also but you passed
and ex option A has been approved how
about that thank you now I do not need
to go to the ARB correct you do not
you guys have a great evening yeah yeah
thank you and if you decide to go to
architecture school give me a call will
you
all right do we have some business that
we need to discuss and that is we have
these proposed zoning and planning draft
regulations
which set forth how long people can talk
and how long we're going to go We're not
gonna go past 11 it's 10 30 and most of
us have run out of gas here and this was
previous
22 and also in August of 22. it was the
reason we don't find any record of the
vote so we're just crossing ortizing our
eyes right taking a vote
oh yeah and everybody got a copy of it
and I I read it today I went through it
okay good so yeah yeah does anybody have
any objections to it or uh suggested
amendments deletions additions if not
I'd entertain a motion to approve these
as submitted to you today
motion thank you Ms Dorn makes the
motion checks seconds all in favor vote
I I all opposed nay the matter is passed
and will become the rules and
regulations in an official fashion
well we just barely made it in under the
buzzer then yeah right by half an hour
right
yeah yeah
that's the official removal right at 11.
yeah oh is that right
well
thank you you know
the building is such you know it's it's
hard to say if somebody demolished that
building they'd be doing us a favor you
know yeah oh yeah I'm sorry nope