because it's
what what
is which
end
just make
sure is it on
well what's interesting is that I just
pushed recording to the cloud and it
didn't say our normal recording to the
cloud there's no sound comes to the the
system I want to try
this
okay plug
yours
oh
wait it's working here it's not working
there you should do better I'm
trying all right we can just
start is the mayor coming in yeah he
said go ahead and start speak speak loud
wait and I have to record with my iPhone
too to remember how to do
that recogniz HTM pluged
in it recogniz just doesn't show it's so
weird you sharing screen how you sharing
um I am sharing my screen with screen
screen share I'm doing everything the
same as I always
yeah
yeah okay we will call to order the
bestley architecture Rie board meeting
for March 14
2024 uh to let anyone know at home if
you're having trouble viewing it we are
having troubles with our uh video but
hopefully didn't hear us through the
audio uh we will start with
uh the
role Mr Paul
here here Mr here Scott here here do we
have approval of meeting minutes from
the last month's
meeting so mov
second all in
favor public comment is there anyone in
the audience that would like to speak
about something that is not on the
agenda
tonight seeing a lot of no we will move
on okay we will uh there are a couple
items on the agenda that are tabled so
I'm going to read off these application
numbers and just know that these have
been pushed to the April 11th meeting
application number B app 2323 the
address is 2200 East
name application number airb 3-36 the
address is 217 North
Stanwood uh
application B app 24-3 the address is
690
Vernon and last application number B
24-5 the address is 2700 e main like I
said these four applications have been
tabled to the April 11th meeting so they
will not be heard tonight can we vote on
that motion sure absolutely there a
board member that want make a motion
moved second
Scott yes yes
yes
yes okay and we also have two items on
the agenda tonight for our
consent agenda these are applications
that the board has reviewed um in
independently and given their
recommendations to the applicant and
they have agreed to do them it is
application number ARB 24-3 the address
is 784 South Roosevelt and application
number B is 24-6 the address is 2529 e
BR those two applications are on our
consent agenda is there a board member
that will make a motion to approve those
motion to
approve
second
yes
yes yes yes
yes okay that takes us to Old
business which we
have
nothing takes us directly we are
frogging over old business we going
straight to new business and our first
application is ARB 24-2 the address is
South arore the applicant is Seth H the
owner is Seth H uh the applicant is
seeking architecture review and approval
and a certificate of appropriate in for
Second Story Edition at the rear of the
principal
structure Karen will give us um some
background on this and if the applicant
applicant is here you can come forward
and Cho that where you
in okay so this application after
talking to the applicant we had a lovely
conversation
um and it kind of clarified where he was
in his design process which is um and
correct me at any time if I
misunderstood but that he was just
exploring ways to add on to the back of
the house but hasn't engaged a designer
yet and has every intention to engage a
designer or an architect Andor an
architect for this project so um rather
than just completely because it was
already a short agenda and and there's
some substantial documentation here
rather than just
wait till the next meeting um we decided
that it would be a nice idea just to
come for just a quick conceptual review
um just to give you some background I
know I did not do a staff report for a a
lot of reasons that you all know because
well we'll get into that later um
but the only thing that the feedback
that I had given um the applicant is
just that I really we really need to see
straight on elevations line drawings Su
understand details and with these kind
of drawings it really didn't show us how
things connect and even given the
drawings that we've we've seen so far
the two forms although the general
placement of the addition and the size
seems fine to me some of the forms just
need to be it needs to be rethought in
terms of forms that will match the
existing house it's a Charming house and
um we'd hate to see just two structures
just kind of abutted together that
didn't relate architecturally in the
same language so um we don't need to you
know we can put a time limit or just you
know until you all feel um as reasonable
but he just wanted to get a little bit
of feedback before he engages a
designer does that sound like a
reasonable okay
yeah
yes
first
yes so IDE we would
approval that fix something applic then
of the process that we started we did
engage inide company clear company to
produce the rendering in the application
deci spoken
with might be
able speed the process up we start so
that's that's kind of
good okay is there anything else that
you want to explain about the project
your thoughts your Concepts anything
like that no I mean it's uh practical
obviously we trying to additional space
for family
tried the
best what we want the space
perspective
we currently have um so love to hear
feedback on how we can fix that but I'm
not sure that we can without
significantly expanding the scope of the
project and cost okay sounds good is
there a board member that would like to
go first to give their thoughts on this
application I'll go first because I
don't have much to say uh I'd say we we
definitely can't approve it tonight
because we don't have sufficient
detailed drawings and this is obviously
really substantial addition so the board
will
expect uh full elevations detailed
drawings and uh as a general
comment at least we don't have all the
perspectives here we don't have all the
views but the one view I am looking at
my initial reaction is that the the
building the addition
is too large for the house now that
doesn't mean it has to be smaller
necessarily but because of the shape and
the height the ridge height and other
the the the the level of the floor and
other details that um you know we we
have a lot of additions but an ideal
addition is clearly an addition it's
usually a little smaller it's a little
lower it's um compatible and you're
trying you're really doing a great job
trying to get to that compatibility
piece
uh but I think what whoever you should
engage should be aware of the fact that
uh
it the scale seems for me a bit out of
proportion so even though we're not
changing the footprint of the house
whatsoever you feel that it's too large
because it's building up on a existing
structure yeah that back it's like a big
big box right on the back of the house
to me but you let's see here what the
I'm not I'm not an architect so um my
I'd say let's hear what they have to
second okay uh is there a board member
that would like to go
next sure can you now that we have a
screen go to the
photos I'm GNA patiently wait yeah
patiently wait I normally would have had
these all pulled up
already I didn't you want photos photos
would be
great that's that's there's the photo so
um one I I I appreciate the 3D
renderings uh I know we're asking for
elevations we like because it's a better
quantifying exact addition
um but I agree with Mr ster that that
the addition feels quite large and why
the existing footprint isn't being
modified right you're building up but if
you look at how the massing of this
house and the character of this house
from the front to back uh is consistent
in and that they they raised this dorm
around the second floor and pulled it up
out of the the kind of low lower roof uh
set step back that thead based on the
other additions here but everything is
kind of though the footprint is the same
as your addition is it's it's masked in
such a way to complement the existing
roof structures when you go vertical two
stories you you really create a much
larger mass in the back of the property
uh and it's harder to balance those
existing structure in this new m
and I'm not against necessarily doing
that it's just in the architectural
design of of how you balance that is
it's it's it's much too boxy and and all
too consistent material for I think you
have to balance that out with uh
potentially bringing other materials
into your facades other colors to help
break down that verticality of that back
facade and and the kind of long
extension that you get because right now
this this little Sun porch that you have
doesn't really feel like a really kind
of a long Extrusion from your house but
in the renderings that again the
renderings aren't in way helping you
there because of those perspectives but
it it really looks like it's a further
addition off the house and in essence
it's not in the oh thank you in the um
the footprint but it is in massing so I
would be very interested in exploring
having you explore ways to soften that
mass uh as you've gone up and see if you
can break it down between stories or
different colors of that mass versus the
rest of the house so what I think I'm
hearing from you changing the size of it
we wouldn't do the renovation if we
couldn't get all that size out of it I
hear you on go to the renderings so um
it sounds like maybe the size isn't
isn't isn't going to prevent us from
getting approved but we would need to
make it aesthetically more pleasing by
breaking up the um yeah I think this
this on the bottom or if you showed me
the two photos are like oh they're
definitely adding another doubling that
square footage of that sun room and
you're not it's the way the now that
you've gotten rid of those soft roof
steps in the back and now it's this
large dominant gabled end it becomes
very overpowering uh and it's it feels
like it's taking up a lot and it's out
of scale with the rest of the house so
I'd like that you've pulled it back here
and there's you've let these roofs kind
of you know finish based on where they
are I think that's beneficial here but
on the other side you lose that um plus
I don't think this roof actually is
going all the way back to where this
hits this roof as you do in your roof
plan sketch I don't the model isn't
doing that right um so it's a little
deceiving but
um so I think that for me it's it's it's
an issue of scale and and the only way
to really break down that scale is to
break down the details of this and and
potentially I I wouldn't say wrapped
Stone around the back but I would leave
it up to you and your potential future
designer um to to kind of work out those
details of how you know maybe you break
this right now it's kind of broken into
two floors uh maybe there's you know
something that wraps around the base of
this and then this is is broken it's
just broken down maybe this is a a hip
roof on the end or the building comes
down maybe it's it's cut a little bit in
that room you lose a little volume in
that into that room but uh a way to just
kind of match the existing house in a
way but without being
too kind of you know blocky I guess is
the the word I want to use it's an
architect term by the way blocky the the
other last thing I was going to mention
is you know the second floor windows are
so much higher than the height of the
windows on the house the original House
it that's I think that's it might be an
illusion but yeah maybe it's just a
drawing I suspect that's just but you
know even if the whole roof could come
down and the SE the RO the ceiling
Heights weren't as high and you know
maybe the windows break through the roof
line you know in some kind of a dormer
or something so you can bring everything
lower I think it would be more
successful and I'm not convinced the
windows have to match I mean they look
smaller than the existing windows Yep
which I think is hurting you yep uh but
I don't think they have to match either
I think these windows being this form is
a little foreign to the this character
of the house so you know if the addition
is happening there's exploring what
those can be to allow this to be
different enough without overpowering
the rest of the mass of the house I
think would go a long way
okay things
nice
Mr H you want to go
next I I would agree with what they've
said um I think the solution is pretty
simple is from my point of view if you
were open to a uh tray ceiling in that
second floor you know a shaped ceiling
inside then all you're doing is bringing
that roof down and it could create a
dormer like a long Dormer for those
three
Windows um it would also create some
variation in the the massing by you know
you bring that roof form down to here
and then it's below the roof that's back
here which will make it look subservient
to the original house it will also add a
lot of character by having this be a
dormer over these three windows and then
you can celebrate this the symmetry of
this elevation because this is doing
different things um but I think bringing
that roof line down uh and creating that
Dormer for these
Windows um would would definitely put it
into the subservient role you know to
the main house the
materials uh I don't have I don't really
have an issue with the extension or the
materials you know if they're matching
the existing that's here and if these
window heads are all aligned um maybe
one of these windows becomes well if
it's a dormer then you want them all to
be the same but you know maybe there's
some variation because that's what these
bungalow houses are all about you know
you just you can have fun with it with
your designer just you know maybe
because this is all perfectly
symmetrical which is not the character
of these bungalow houses but I think
otherwise it would fit it would be it
would be great that's all that's all I
have yeah yeah I agree with everybody
else and what they said I would
encourage you to just I know you're
trying to build on top of the um the
existing footprint of the building I'm
not concerned concerned about how much
square footage You're Building as much
as maybe there's a better way to spread
some of this out a little differently
and improve the massing um in that way
I'm I'm struggling with this this piece
that's all the way off to the side and
you know if that's centered and then
you're able to lower the roofs and and
really kind of pick up on you know
coming off the back of the house um and
picking up on the Bungalow features as
is what was described here I think you
would be you know much more successful
with this um so I you from my
perspective just you know I'm not
concerned about how much square footage
you're adding it really is and I don't
think anybody here is saying that it
really is about massing and how you're
approaching the
addition that perspective I I would also
add that um I think the the model is
doing you a disservice in some ways as
Mr Scott had alluded to one is the
proportion of this house this is
actually a big Bungalow I mean there's
there's a lot there on those side
elevations that you're not getting in
this view because that addition is just
like right on us um right but I think I
think if we had views that were taken
for instance from the going to the other
side uh not this corner but the far
corner where the you know the P porch at
your front porch that you know if you
give us more views like that and plus
the elevations as Miss bour had alluded
to you know those are really critical
because then we really see the
proportion portion of all these elements
together I just think this modeling I I
think you're on the right track but I
think the modeling isn't helping you
with the with the distorted perspective
if if you have the model and it's built
accurately you can just do
non-prospective side views and creat
your elevations so we' we've done that
many many times so doesn't have to be
all redrawn if it's accurately
representing there's there's a lot there
are a lot of homes that have um
that Windows within a Dormers lowering
the roof that they're referring to if
you drive around you'll see them all
over and they're a great match for these
bungalow houses for an Edition the one
on Drexel the
white of theth West corner of Brighton
and Drexel yeah they did that over their
garage and it's really
successful okay and I I I I think your
drawings are doing you a disservice um
same and like when I look at the roof
plan it isn't even correct I I think in
order for you to come back you're on the
right track but you just need to have
correct drawings so um hopefully you can
find somebody or some way to get those
done and come back to us and hopefully
it'll be a quick process for you all
right okay I appreciate it all right
good luck thank you very much so do we
need to table him or so we so we really
didn't consider you a real application
at this point I think we sent a notice
it was more informal uh review just
courtesy review as they say yes but it
would be on the next meeting agenda if
we could
April okay and if you want to send me
anything in the I'm happy if you want to
give a shop by your like how you did
these this is probably as far as I'll
give it a
shop good job so far yeah really yeah
pretty impressive better than a lot of
contractor my
wife sir before can you go to this
view this yeah other corner of the
back it's in the the overall drawing
L it's the I have more
renderings renderings scroll
down there you go top left so I want to
just make sure that we were looking at
one side but if we look at this side the
top left image that that's you know we
were looking at that long skinny mask
but it really isn't um it's it is from
this perspective but I I still think
there's some love that needs happening
on this the bigger Mass that's actually
attached that from this view is even
more dominant um so I think looking at
bringing those roof STS as Mr Hyer said
and really looking at how this a larger
kind of abl end that in that view is
another thing you need to to look at and
trying to soften and be subsur to the
the main
house okay okay we'll see you back next
month then thank you thank
you okay our next
application is number Bap 24-4 the
address is 2498 Fair Avenue the
applicant is Amy lowerhouse the owner is
Kyle Barger and the applicant is a is
asking for a recommendation to the board
of zoning and planning for a certificate
of appropriateness for a new detached
garage and a special permit for
functional Dormer
okay um Karen will give us a little bit
of background on this so this was really
the this is really the only project we
have on here for a traditional review
and I apologize for not getting staff
report but Amy and I went email to email
until the end of the day today and I'm
sure and you were included in some of
those nice to meet you in person not
just an email um as as I think the board
members know Amy couldn't be here
because her daughter's giving her final
dissertation in Nashville and she didn't
want to miss it um but uh we went over
we went back and forth a lot about the
issue about having these two forms that
don't really that have some issues that
don't match up in a lot of ways um and
another words the the Dormer Ridge line
and the eve line and also then there's
the issue of having to accessory
structures and how do you blend them
together to not have an awkward you know
entrance into the back but I think it's
pretty wooded right it's very secluded
yeah we're surrounded by fences and
trees yeah so it's really just making
them more a cohesive you know double
accessory structure entrance and Amy and
I talked through about some of the
issues and she explained to me and I
wanted to relay it to the board that the
reason that some of these decisions were
made to put the ridge the the Dormer not
at the same height as the original
garage and the eve line
uh ight lower is that she was adhering
to the new code rather than saying I
want a
variance um let's go to the board of
zoning and planning because this is
existing and we want it to match she
want the other route I don't think
there's a right or wrong way and
currently in it in this design it's has
a functional Dormer which requires a
special permit from the board of zonian
planning so that's all it requires from
them so that's that that's the reason
that you see so many differences and
then you you can speak to it as well if
you want sure but um we also talked
about and you said you a couple of board
members threw out um in some feedback
the idea of connecting the two with the
trellis or some kind of structure and
Andy said well we would have love to do
that but we didn't think we could do
that either Kathy can speak to the
zoning so I think you know I think it
was pretty clear in the email that
you're aware that this probably is
going to get tabled till next month to
work through those things or if the
board can come to con some consensus
they agree to the condition that you
review it through staff sure so um I
hope that clarified some of the issues
that you all brought up but did you want
to kind of speak to it
all oh
sorry please state your name Kyle barar
do you somly swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth thank you um good
evening I'll I'll do my best to speak as
well as Amy would she were here um as
Karen mentioned our goal would have been
to do the exact same garage but code
would not allow that um we would also
love to connect the two garages with a
trellis or some kind of garden structure
but code would also not allow that so um
we can apply for those variances um but
the goal was we have a very small garage
that's in a very awkward corner of the
property so uh with our kids everything
requires pulling cars in and out of
pretty much the only backyard space we
have so when we
explored trying to extend the size of
that garage to the allowance of the code
um it just seem like it would be a lot
easier cost effective and smarter to
just build a new garage in a more
functional place for cars to be able to
get in and out uh by doing this we would
also be able to add more green space to
our backyard which is now pretty much
all concrete or papers so um my goal
would be not to table this to next month
um we would love to find whatever your
recommendations are to work with you to
achieve that um I love your
recommendations we just understood they
would be more difficult to do because of
the current code with accessory
structures I would like to point out um
which Amy usually does her homework on
meeting the code uh that accessory
structures are limited to 60% of the lot
width this is a wider than normal lot
and it's a 75t lot which gives you a 45
foot limit and these combined structures
are at
44 so I just thought I'd share that if
there's a trellis does that incl would
be included that's a gray area I mean
I've included trellises that have gone
before the zoning board just to air on
the side of caution and because it's an
Airy structure and you know they they've
approved it without requiring the
variance so I have a question um I think
you just stated that you would have
loved to build the exact same garage but
code doesn't permit what doesn't code
permit for us build the size the size of
the Dormer so not the overall size
everything is within code technically
the without the Dormer it looks Night
and Day from the other one but we added
that which required the variance so they
would match but that Dormer is current
code size whereas the previous garage
slightly larger I believe they're
limited to 50% of the width the Dormer
is so that Dormer on the existing garage
is definitely wider than 50% so this
one's meeting that so you've got two and
the overall footprint of it if we said
we wanted the them to be like matching
structures would would be significantly
smaller the current garage I think we
had an
extra is it 20 an extra like four feet
one way and an extra like two feet
another it 10 feet one way and two feet
the other to meet current code for the
old garage okay no I'm asking if the
footprint of the new garage was the same
size as the footprint of the old garage
is that the new garage allows us to do
the the maximum garage size within
current code the old garage was smaller
than what the current code the new
garage is four feet wider
and uh it looks like like two feet
deeper two feet
deeper okay is there anything else that
you want to explain about it then as we
kind of go to board members no just
eager to try to do whatever you'd like
okay is there a board member that would
like to go
first I I'll go first I want to chime in
first on Accessory structures your
square footage is
limited let's see the size of by the
size of your lot the lowest size garage
would be 624 square feet what you're
proposing is 552 square feet yeah Miss
lowerhouse didn't believe that if we
went larger that it would be conducive
to the space with cars being able to
pull in and out easily okay uh so I
misspoke it's not the maximum size
allowed it's what she felt was best for
the footprint but still allowed two
vehicles to park there which our current
garage won't
allow I feel like I'm missing something
here like it it it wants to do to me it
wants to do something else you know
either either you match and you have
these two pairs like the back of your
house has this symmetry to it and then
you're going to do these two garage
forms that are facing in different
directions essentially The Gables are
facing in different
directions why didn't you just play off
the house and try to set it up where you
had these two Pavilions that were
symmetrical with something in the middle
just like the back of your house it
would have been would have been fun I
understand the size issue but um I think
going for a variance for something like
that would we would I mean I would have
been amenable to that because it just
carries on the character of your
property yeah the Tris and I think
that's a done deal if somebody would
have given me that design advice we
probably would have been very happy to
do it here we are but that's not where
we are well but the the structure could
be rotated pretty easily in the garage
on the Gable end on the one new garage
garage is on you're leaving the old
garage door oh so leave the garage door
where it's at but just leave the form
just rotate the garage door location
and that what's being suggested I mean
that's not exact I mean I was thinking
more like ex right but but being the
same size like the two the two garages
were like mirror of each other like
precise mirror of each other I can't
speak from his Powerhouse you're
literally looking at that right you pull
in garage door on it right have the the
challenge the challenges 24 foot wide
garage to a 20 but there's ways to put I
mean there we we see so many garages
come through that keep the Gable form
the same or as what was before or what's
adjacent and then they have an extension
on it to give you that more room for
like the stair going up to your Loft
there's ways to create modulation on it
but the overall is that you have these
two gable forms that are the same size
yeah I just think you're missing that
opportunity here even if so you can
still get the same space in your garage
but it just wouldn't be a rectangle it
would actually have like a little
extension to it to get the size to get
that stair in there and allow you your
your car clearance but to me that's that
would be way more exciting as keeping in
the character of your property in your
house sure so again assuming I'm
understanding it correctly even though
they're slightly different sizes they
would mirror each other but the garage
would still still be facing the driveway
my understanding is Miss lowerhouse
believe that you would want to see the
Dormer facing the street because that is
what's typically common and expected no
no out here no well we we have lots of
gable end Dormers that face the street
and we just you have to put more into it
because you have more wall space to work
with but now no that's that Gable end
faces the house now right of the
existing
garage
however the neighbor that faces neighbor
stru that actually blocks it so that
might be a
very so the current garage right now
does not face the house it faces the
yeah but if you took that structure and
mirrored it but then put the garage on
the Gable in you see this this shape
here faces your house right yes sir so
what I'm suggesting is you do the same
thing over here right yeah
and right and and the garage door
becomes the window but but you would but
this peak and this eve height would be
and this width okay that you would see
would be exactly the same as your
current garage but then you can you know
have something that extends out well I
don't know how that would work with your
stair but you know that's where Amy
would come in she could figure that out
but I mean I I just think those two
gable forms even if even with the garage
door there would just would be that
would be a real
um uh a beautiful solution I think yeah
um yeah exactly look at that I mean
that's it's it's almost like the house
is saying
hello don't you know what to
do I think it's a wonderful idea I just
wish maybe Amy was here because she
might have a reason for why it was
designed that way um we would have said
the same thing to her and I mean I'm
only one board member but I would I
would be saying that that to me would be
the solution
so you seen I have a great relationship
with like I talk to tomorrow about it
and we can but I I think that you're
probably in a situation where you just
need to have it table till the next
month and then we can work that out and
it would likely be consent like yeah so
this is going forward to the zoning
board oh yeah would you want to have an
opportunity to present that second
design there already requesting of
variance you get that modified before
the next meeting and I actually think
that's a great idea because two garages
with two Dormers might be more than what
Bap would approve I don't know how they
were how they would look on that so it
would be good to take it before them and
just see if if we can get the design of
it okay if they're even going to approve
two two garages two they will know that
this board suggested it which I think is
helpful to it goes far yes yeah sure and
if you have it in your budget and want
to try I think this trellis over that
petty would be
fabulous I would be I would love to do
that if we can get approval for it my
understanding is it's against code to
connect them with any kind of structure
it's free freestanding and sitting with
you know and not would you cover it like
with a roof or would you want to just be
shaved no it would just be no Ro just
shade so it doesn't have to connect to
the the
structure yeah I think so it just
visually connects it doesn't actually I
think that'd be a fabulous little spot
Conn sure it and you can do it
increments too you just get through this
garage phase first sure and then come
back might be easier because yeah it
reduces the friction sure right so just
to be clear that we understand what do
you understand what we're suggesting is
that I do we take this that it's
pressure on Amy but she she'll do it um
to get to get something to to bees up in
two weeks you're really not losing a lot
of time she seems already prepared for
that and the way she made it sound is
it's kind of a formality to get that
Dormer approved already so she said
really she was surprised that we had
friction here but this was the hurdle to
get over today um so I would ask if
there is a reason that I'm not aware of
why it can't be turned 90 degrees if we
do a trellis would that satisfy what
you're looking for to still be able to
there's a lot of moving Parts when you
start making changes and so I have to
make sure that we're crossing our teas
and dotting our eyes when it comes to
like zoning requirements so and in Amy's
defense this is no simple case because
you're trying to match an existing
structure when the board's telling you
that the house that was wanting you to
match it so based on their
recommendation you go forward to the
zoning board you can bring this plan but
you might want to bring the plan that
they're telling you to do share that
with the board and they might say well
it might require another variance but
it's worth the design improvements and
we'll just send that final design back
so this board can confirm the details
okay so I can essentially submit both
and not have to it's it's going to go
forward to the zoning board if if you
decide that you'll accept that as a
condition of our motion and then Amy can
do those
modifications so you can go to the
zoning board with both this design and
the new design and you may just sell
that new
design okay
I guess I'm just nervous because I don't
want to I guess agree to something that
she's like hey that wouldn't work for
the you're not agreeing to anything just
moving you through the process okay
right simultaneous we're not binding to
a design because we don't see that in a
design so okay this board isn't
currently binding you to that if you go
through Bap they approve it they're
going to send it back to us for final
approval that may end up being a consent
item depending on the work with the
consent just meaning that we won't do
this again have to come do it in advance
by by there's no guarantee buta we're
trying to help you get keep moving
forward and they do want to hear their
concerns and comments and they may feel
the same way and encourage you to
require the variance and they they'll
sign off on that okay we've s on a
notice that you've requested a variance
on this garage so it's not like we have
to send out a new notice for that okay
Sor I we're suggesting that Amy might
come prepared to ease up with two
plans yeah just show the existing and
then revised yep and this is what the
ARB recommended yep and then we we're
going to have it as part of our
condition that it be remanded back to
this board um pending pending their
decision so they're going to know from
this recording and from this meeting and
then from the design that you know you
would submit that uh we would we would
want to be reviewing that again
anyway see it be out because Amy and I
will work together from now until then
okay I'm sorry I just feel like I don't
fully grasp but Amy would work on this
new design to submit to Bap in two weeks
with that meeting assuming all of that's
passed is it something we can still
apply for permits on the 28th then or
would it come back to this group next
month to be tabled you come back to this
group next month so if you get approved
on on the April 11th meeting then you
can begin getting your permit and
so there's nothing we can do today to
but but you also risk taking this design
to the zoning board and they may say we
don't like this design and they won't
approve your variance I understand I'm
I'm just trying to F in for Amy I I mean
you can apply at your own risk if you go
forward with your new design and you're
comfortable and they're all on board
with it you can submit at your own risk
for a building permit and if there's any
conditions on Final design Karen can you
can make a modification to that plan so
you could apply for the next day at your
own risk and let it get into the queue
subject to final design review by the
board okay and I wouldn't do that till
after
BCA I don't know what to do until I talk
to Amy honestly so she knows and again
Karen's available we'll guide you
through it regard regardless we're still
making a motion tonight voting on a
motion to um send this to to be
app and the conditions that we have for
that regardless of what Amy thinks or
you think about those conditions it's
still going there and then they're going
to hear those conditions and then you're
you're still you're still in line to
keep moving okay thank
you I'm just having a little bit of
trouble with the conditions I basically
put to mirror the existing garage
design with with slight adjustments with
modifications for the size the size
requirements requested by the applicant
think the the the the square footage
requirements with maintaining the square
footage so if Amy just I think she will
get I totally understand it what what
we're talking about design wise okay and
Amy might very well say this is on the
site that none of you could really
understand and she might have to your
point she might have a
readon but I I just think you could end
up with a better design and it's really
no extra time sure because either way
you're getting in aand it's two weeks
more than you're you were wishing for
but it really doesn't slow you down
because she'll know at Visa if she's
approved you can she can start with
construction dos okay it won't slow you
down okay so that means we are pushing
it on to B app with these changes or
with these
recommendations can read that yes please
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number bcap 24-4
for property located at 20 498 Fair the
architectectural review board re
recommends the board of zoning and
planning approval of a certificate of
appropriateness with the
conditions or modifications identified
by the board as follows to mirror the
existing garage design with while
maintaining the proposed square footage
and with final design remanded back to
the
ARB okay so do you understand that I do
thank you for explaining that yep yep
okay is there a uh board member that
will make a
motion so move
ster second
Hall I will call the role Mr H yes Mr
Hall yes Mr Rosser yes Mr Scott yes Adam
T yes okay good luck at Bap and I look
forward to seeing the new design yeah
thank you all for your time thank than
you thanks good luck be out okay we have
uh two things in other business the
first one is application number ma 23-
295 the address is 2196 East Broad
Street the Amanda the applicant is
Amanda Hancock the owner is Lana Abner
and the applicant is seeking
architecture review and a certificate of
appropriat to replace 22 lead glass
windows with provia vinyl windows in
bronze and staff has requested this to
be reviewed by the board it was tabled
at the February uh a orb meeting yeah I
just want to give an update um they're
not here because I'm hoping that this it
would satisfy the board and be a good
compromise um they have changed
contractors they're no longer using
appco and the president went to Pella
and they're using wood clad they would
like to use wood clad windows with grids
that won't be this size they'll be a
little bigger but the proportion will be
the same because you can't do this size
with the wood clad and they only want to
do them in four dmer windows on the back
because that those where their kids are
living and it's very those are the worst
ones very yeah so we kind of I I
consider this a win and if you guys want
to see it next month that's fine or if
you just want to give me the um you know
the authority to approve it that would
be awesome and and they are not touching
the rotated Diamond Glass
I'd say that's design consultant review
I'm okay with that and this is a case
where they have changed to a vendor that
understands the value in Diamond Leed
glass windows this is not a somebody who
carries P this is the actual
P so they they're happy to encourage
keeping the so which well I could get
into the series of Pella because Pella
there's Pella and then there's Pella
right and and so you don't want the
rolled form uh aluminum you want it all
to be extruded and
um so there there's there's a quality
difference oh very do we know what
they're trying to put in I I'm hoping
the yeah okay well let us know if
they're not yeah we're okay with that
yeah
they pushing for lifestyle which is
still W clad but
is okay I think it's very helpful to
have uh support of this board for staff
and consultants in these kind of
cases
yeah you didn't do it for
you we appreciate it okay okay our last
application
is uh a fence that Kathy would like us
to review it is uh F2 24-1 arb2
24-24
24-4 the address is 2829 Columbus the
applicant is Andrew frankhouser and the
owner is Andrew frankhouser the
applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and a certificate of
appropriateness to put off fence and
raise planners in the side yard and
staff has asked that we as a board
review this
application evening board thank you than
you for your timing
consideration please state your name
Andrew franker do somly swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes I do thank
you so Kathy can you give us sure we
don't normally see fences so let's see
why Kathy wants us to review this so uh
a fence permit is has its limits
particularly when you're dealing with
Corner lots and we we always have these
gray areas when you're dealing with a
corner lot that has open porches
typically a fence the code states that
um on interior
Lots but this will also it's no sidey
fence shall extend beyond the front
setback line or the existing front
building facade whichever is
greater
um so that when you have typically you
have your open porch on the front of a
house or covered porch so that side yard
fence I can approve it to come up to the
enclosed living space but not get into
the area where you have a rail going
around your front porch so it it lets
that
set you know set out there separate and
not screen behind a f foot fence in this
case um the structure on the corner has
an L-shaped porch which comes down the
side and wraps around now there is
enclosed space that does come out
further and I if you want to look at the
elevation Karen of the I don't know if
you Reed the
picture but typically I would approve a
fence that would come down the side and
return where that main house
is however the applicant would like to
extend it forward and return it at the
first post um I wasn't comfortable
signing off on that
however I've done a little bit more
investigation and
this is a short block and this house
does extend further to the front
property line than all the rest of the
homes so I did reach out to Myers
surveying because my property files are
missing right now they're having them
scan so
I'm fish out of water so I called Myers
and asked if they had a survey of this
property and if they could share what
that front setback is from the house to
the front property line and it's
actually 17 feet which the the front
yard setback is 30 feet or the average
whichever is greater so they also had a
survey of the neighboring property which
that house is 26 feet back from the
front property line so this house is
already 9 feet in front of the
neighboring house and the neighboring
house has a setback very similar to the
rest of the homes in that
block that's not good so it if I'm if if
I'm reading this code correctly and I
I'm sorry I didn't read this sooner but
a front yard setback you know existing
or whichever is greater 30 feet is the
greater of the two in this case so if
this house is already at 17 feet and 30
feet is going to be the greatest of all
the setbacks combined that is actually
the front setback so that fence cannot
be any further forward than 30t from the
pro front property
line um design wise I think it looks
most most appropriate to have it at the
return of the house if in fact that is
30 feet from the front property
line but if it's closer to the street I
wanted this board's
design opinion on allowing that fence to
return and it's a solid fence that's
four feet high he would like to put a
garden within the confines of this
what's the set back off of
sandwood uh he could put a 48 inch fence
right on the property
line so stwood is L right next to the
sidewalk well wherever their property
line their property line could be like
two feet back from the sidewalk I think
it's actually just a foot off the p in
this case yeah we'd measure from the
center of the street I'd have to look at
that right of way so there is no
sidewalk on that side right but we can
determine what that that is that is not
my concern what my concern is the front
because this is platted to Columbus and
this house is so much further forward
than the rest of the homes in now
knowing you have to maintain 30 feet
that might put us somewhere else so if I
could get an opinion on you know where
that should stop are you saying
that if I go this the the long run of
the fence right now that's Stan going
along Stanwood
Stanwood it could come closer to the
road than it is currently drawn where
he's proposed it that picture that has
it highlighted in
red I if you want to put that one
up uh can you go back to the yes sorry
that is goofing around and go okay so so
it's coming along Stanwood going from
left to right I'm sorry from right to
left and then it it returns it's going
now across the front yard yes to that
first post so my question is under the I
know this is complicated because there a
lot of moving points yeah got a
pointer pointer
the long sense sex the long fence
section right here could it come closer
to the how you turn it
[Music]
on KY have you asked him to put back so
that it doesn't house that go here or
here because I think they want a lot of
square footage because they you want to
put in beds that's great right so you
need some space so instead of doing this
could it do here to here and a gate
right there that's a good question so we
would have to determine where the
property line is but the property line
I'm not sure yeah I don't I don't think
that would be possible I think the
rightaway line is about a foot off the
face of the garage right now it it very
well could be but this this isn't the
front of the house it is no this is the
front of the house yeah that's that's
kind of why I think we're like the front
of the house is actually Way Forward of
that it is in the Google street view
where people driven by that that that
post that you can see there where the
fence is sitting that's pretty far
behind the front of the house yeah it is
weird that it would be on the open p
here's a clean picture if you want to
pass this around it's almost like a side
torch oh there you go it is because that
tree is gone and there is some enclosed
living space but but now that I know
about this 30 foot setback that's it
can't go any further forward than 30
feet and if that 30 feet puts it
somewhere along that side rail is that a
design concern that this board would
have I'll go first it's not a concern
for me because it's not really the front
of the house and it's a fence it's not
permanent I would agree with that you're
you're not going to perceive it as being
out at the front it's it's actually
behind that front face by four feet
maybe yeah five feet but but it still
has to be set back at least 30 feet from
the front property line and we'll figure
out where that is right but I'm almost
guessing that might even put it further
back along where the solid structure
where plenty of houses and bested on a
corner lot of Pence and it's only four
feet you're not going five or six feet
no and that would be the top post we
want something small our our only intent
is to keep Critters out there's a lot of
skunks and rabbits and things in the
neighborhood and keep Critters in we
have two kids and we don't want them in
the road there's a lot of I would
definitely four feet would be the
highest I would recommend yeah higher
just too much of a barrier that would
require yeah we don't want it to look
like it's block want a stade no we we
don't want foress the only downside to
putting it there but you you it's it's
already kind of like this this old
photo when you have a a wrap wrapping
porch like that it has so much character
and when when this Evergreen was put in
it kind of blocks the you know the
expression of that beautiful wrapping
porch so if those trees weren't there I
might be more hesitant to put something
in the middle of that beautiful movement
of that wrapping porch but with that
other with those trees there I no
they're gone they're gone oh the trees
are gone oh yeah see I didn't go visit
the site today so vegetable garden got
to get rid of the trees we're planning
on replacing the trees but they were
dropping branches especially the sweet
gum was dropping branches on the porch
CA things will you paint this fence
white uh we haven't decided if it would
be white or if it would just be natural
wood I think that it would be better if
it was white yeah because then you're
blending in with the pier it'll look
more
like it's a tea extension of the porch
or whatever even though it's lower I I
don't think you want to do natural and
natural fences in Bexley they they never
age well for some reason it's not like
we're out in Colorado where all the
cedar ages so beautifully or you're in
New England where it all gets the Salt
Air and it turns black and it's
beautiful here it turns green okay it's
awful so I would recommend painting it
okay okay I would actually make that a
condition
I think it's incred incredibly important
for the character of the it's it's not
technically an ARB case or a zoning case
it's a fence permit that I wasn't
comfortable issuing until I had
confirmation of of where that should be
if that was appropriate to have it and
further out then so where's it going now
it's got to be at least 30 feet back no
I mean where is this application going
after oh I have it's a fence permit I'll
be able to issue it with you know are we
voting on this no oh I just I just
wanted to get your professional opinion
happen very often in ARB it happens a
lot though in Bap and you know I guess
technically this could also go into Bap
but we wanted some design feedback too A
lot of times we'll take sta reviews to
be up to determine whether it
needs an official review or a sta but if
it doesn't require variance to to go
further forward it's more of a design
concern that we've had discussions even
with this corner property boards front
yards these you know so this is one of
those Prime cases that's why I'd rather
get your the neighbor across the street
though it's in its backyard has a huge
long chain link fence right so I mean
it's a be nicer so this this though it's
approaching the front not in the front
approaching the front of the corner I
see why this would be so we we need a
variance or anything if we need to do I
I I will back we'll determine knowing
now that you're you have 17 feet from
the front of the house out to the
property line so now you want to
measure 12 feet
back that 30 feet
put white fence White Fence White Fence
this again just for record the house Cy
across corner across the street that has
a chain Ling fence all the way up to the
front face of the house yeah there's a
lot of them there yours is great okay
thank you this is very helpful very much
luck with your garden looks like it's
going to be great
we can keep the kids out of
it lot of beds in there lock the
gate
okay
bito that's great