now
okay we will call to order the uh
November 9th
2023 um Bexley Architectural Review
board
meeting uh can we uh have the roll
called are you gonna do that Karen sure
since Kathy's out today Mr steel here Mr
Hall here Mr H here Mr Scott here here
Person County here uh next we will have
approval of meeting minutes and we have
the uh we have two meeting minutes to
approve we can do them both together or
we can do them separate did everybody
get a chance to review both meeting
minutes Scott did you get a chance okay
um if if you're okay then we will just
approve them
together with me okay do I have some
that will make a
motion so moved scottt second
okay and we can call the RO on that Mr H
yes yes Mr H yes Mr steel yes yes okay
this is the time in the meeting for
public comment if there is someone in
the audience that would like to speak to
the board on uh a topic that is not on
the agenda tonight you can come forward
and we will try to answer your question
or if you have something that you wanted
to talk to talk about that is on the
agenda we will wait and do that when we
come to that item in the agenda is there
anybody that wants to bring up a new
topic to talk
about okay seeing none uh we have one
item on the agenda that we we all agreed
could go on consent so we will do uh a
vote for this application number ARB
23-38 the address is 358 North Cassidy
the applicant is Amy lowerhouse the
owner is Bruth and Mike Bruce and
Michelle Carter is there anyone in the
audience that came to speak about that
application okay seeing no one for that
one uh do I have a board member that
will make a motion for that
application so moved H second
Scott call the RO Mr Scott yes Mr H yes
Mr Hall yes Mr steel yes Madam Tony yes
okay that brings us to Old business our
first uh an only old business item
tonight is application Bap 23-23 the
address is 2200 East Main Street the
applicant is Ryan Pearson the owner is
Continental real estate companies the
applicant is Seeking a recommendation to
the board of zoning and planning for a
certificate of appropriateness to allow
demo and Redevelopment of the vacant
Trinity Lutheran apartment structures at
2160 uh East Main Street also a special
permit and conditional use for a new
five-story building with housing
Alternatives and variance for a new
five-story mixed use building to provide
additional housing restaurant retail and
offices okay so we will start uh with
Karen she can give us an update okay um
I did put a pretty lengthy sorry I'm G
make sure your microph on B example um I
did a pretty lengthy staff report that
was posted to the website today so I'm
hoping most everyone got a chance to
look at that but I'm going to give a
summary of it I did give a little
history of where we've been with this
project I don't think I need to go into
the details here but just um the
timeline that this project um wanted to
these up just to have a preliminary
review with no decisions just to kind of
confirm zoning or special permits I will
put in here that since that time um the
applicant has added a a six story which
will now need a variance um for those of
you I'm going to jump around a little
bit but for those of you that were able
to attend the workshop that was actually
something that we encourage them to do
doesn't mean that we won't have audience
members that may one testify but it is
something that we highly encourage them
to do so that we could get some setback
and some relief off of some of the um
the the massing in the back of the
building which is part of this new
application um The Next Step was was
taking it to the September ARB meeting
um we had some good discussion a lot of
testimony um with that feedback the
applicant decided to table their
application for the October ARB meeting
uh we won't be hearing it in Bap until
it has a final recommend or
recommendation positive or negative to
to Bap which um that's why we're here
today for a recommendation to beap but
in between we decide the applicant
decided to ask for a tabling and we
offered which actually came out of the
last airb meeting to do a workshop it
was was a non-public comment but public
were welcome I see a lot of faces that
actually W here we sat around the table
rolled up our sleeves and got a lot of
um design feedback from the board as um
Madame Tony always says you can get like
four meetings worth of work done in one
workshop and I think it was very
productive never we're going to please
everybody but I think we accomplished a
lot of the goals um that we were hoping
to accomplish um some of which I'll just
kind of go through them a little bit but
I'm going to give the applian a chance
to kind of spot through the changes and
we can look at some images some did some
additional images did come in today they
aren't any changes are you having
trouble
hearing is it on it is on but
not well make sure
speaker
works I'll just hit on some of the
highlights that we were looking for at
the workshop and I think that a lot of
these were accomplished I'm not that
there's not still some work to do but
I'm from a staff perspective pretty
pleased at the changes that have come in
um the applicant was able to break down
some of the back of the building I
because I'm flying kind of just with
Katherine tonight I'm going to bring up
the images afterwards so just you'll
just have to listen to the verbal
explanation right now but some of the um
the back was notched out to give it some
relief in the massing for Neighbors to
the back and to the west and and first
first U City Hall and and Beckley Center
um the that was able to be accomplished
by the addition of the six floor the
sixth story that's in the front of the
building so it w only only affect Main
Street which um according to Main Street
guidelines is is encouraged to add some
density to Main Street we also um
encouraged the applicant to make more um
ins and outs of the
building undulation of the facades all
over so that we give it some relief with
the mass that it is um I think that's
been done um pretty well uh some some
pocket Parks were created we'll go
through all of this but I just want to
hit on the highlights and the entry
space um was really carved out in the
front of the building to make a public
space will be part of the restaurant but
also a really nice public space um for
Gathering as well as a the the corner
the
southeast Corner um there has been a a
very um nice development of the the kind
of the corner where there's now a right
turnout to activate the space on Main
Street so it will have much more public
interaction and in the I don't I don't
have any idea and I don't know that the
applicant has is at the in the position
to even know himself yet or their
themselves yet but there also was added
a couple retail spaces so we encourage
highly encourage them to put not just an
office space but something that will
activate Main Street as well so when you
see retail I'm not sure if you're in in
a position yet to divulge what that will
be but we know that Hudson 29 was
reposed on one corner and now there's
retail on the other Corner as well to
activate it with Beckley Center which I
think is a really great change um
I I really just to go through because
because there may be some new people in
the audience I just want to be clear
about what we are here to discuss at ARB
and what we're not here to discuss I
know I did this last time but I'm just
going to run through the list we are
here to talk about the architecture
material choices and style we're here to
talk about how the building by through
its architecture addresses Main Street
Corridor um we're here to talk about how
the building activates spaces around
around the building and with other
neighboring properties and how the
architecture and building design
interface with adjacent properties such
as the Alexander and The Neighbors to
the back and City Hall and across the
street um as well as
pedestrians so materials and detailing
of the building are all fair game what
we're not here to discuss is parking and
traffic patterns that will be dealt with
it is actually already being dealt with
and we can address whatever Global
questions you have but I can assure you
that currently the planners on the
project from the um from the team from
Continental team is has been constantly
meeting with Jason sui and the mayor to
deal with parking and traffic issues as
the building changes and gets molded in
different ways um tax abatements you um
are not part of our discussion um the
use really isn't either I know that it
it I've heard a lot that um why why are
there so many units they could have a
smaller building but this is within the
zoning code so that's not really here
we're not here to discuss that um and
site design overall site design that is
also in the purview of Bap as well as
general
massing um a lot of that is squishy you
know the architecture can change a very
what appears to be a very large General
Mass into a much more sensitive MTH to
its neighbors which I think we're we're
definitely on the way to um the
applicant has been very receptive to a
lot of the changes and I think you'll
see them in the presentation but I'm
going to go ahead and ask I don't know
who on your team wants to present but I
have um uh just so the audience knows
you will see some drawings now that you
may not have seen yet they're nothing
new they're just additional renderings
that came in today I think they'll be
helpful for example one of the west
elevation
um Scott or whoever is going to present
can explain them but if you want to come
up and we'll swear you in whoever's
going to
present uh good evening uh Jason Hawk
count real estate 150 East Broad Street
Columbus
43215 I just want to lead off and uh
thank everybody for their time over the
last couple months working through this
I know it's been a long process but I
think ultimately this will be a great
project uh I'd be remiss to say Frank
wanted to me to make sure apologize he
could not make it tonight at a
conflicting meeting in Pittsburgh so
unfortunately you got me as a
representative at this point but uh I
think ultimately what you're G to find
is a a great project that matches up
with the discussions we've had over the
last couple months I think that Workshop
was was ideal to to hammer out out the
issues and and really address some of
the concerns that have been raised here
and by the the neighbors um with that
I'm going to turn it over to ph7 and let
them talk through the architecture on
the project thanks one more thing before
we start um because I would be remiss
because I usually do to not give my
staff recommendation upfront just so you
have things to think about why we're
going um my staff recommendation would
be to recommend this to beap but what
the reason I wanted to point that out is
along the way I want you to be to be
thinking about what kinds of things we
might want to back if we do go ahead and
and move it on to um beap for approval
for example just material samples or or
or maybe it's nothing but I want to be
cognizant that that is could very well
be part of the approval is that certain
things might come back to us for final
approval okay
thanks
are you you're still struggling to here
um if everyone could speak really loud
because it's on
so okay all right well good evening um
my name is Brad Pauling uh I'm the
studio director at ph7 and um I've been
working behind the scenes with Scott and
and Mike Healey uh from day one on this
and so I thought I would just go through
a few of the slides and talk through
some of the changes um and we've got
Ryan Pearson with the edge group here as
well to help uh if there's any questions
on that front but um we just wanted to
hit some high level stuff um I don't
think there's a lot of different things
that you see here from the work session
but in case there's people that hadn't
weren't a part of the work session we
wanted to walk through those changes
because what is on the screen here today
I think is dramatically different than
what was in front of you uh for the
ARB previously
yes and so I I just kind of want to walk
through how we got to where we are in
addition to the discussions that we had
with the um with this group during the
work session so um with further Ado if
you want to slide to the next one I'll
go ahead and just walk through some of
the process and some of the high high
level points
um yes you want
any okay we'll start here this is good
enough just real quick um for the group
this is this is what's called a noie
plan so this is a figure ground of uh
your Main Street Corridor looking at
both the North and the South side of the
street um basically from Parkview Avenue
all the way up to Cassidy and so what
you're seeing is what the figure ground
of the building's frontages along that
entire streetcape is and then we tried
to do a study we tried to just sort of
point out what are the building masses
on Main Street and how those buildings
are starting to reflect your Main Street
guidelines um we we had studied this um
long ago this was not in our packet for
the original ARB um we did present this
during the work session and so we just
wanted to point out to uh it's a way of
us sort of describing what's going on
and in particular you start to look at
some of these red dots on this and those
are sort of negative spaces along the
Main Street Corridor that act as either
moments with for the front edge of a
building or for a patio that is part of
a a space or just generally um something
along the way but what you start to see
in this is a rhythm and a pattern and if
you go to the next slide we we looked
really more closely at just Park View to
the Drexel Avenue and you see um us
trying to understand what are the
rhythms that are happening along Main
Street and proportions specifically
related to sort of The Pedestrian way
like so when you're on Main
Street you're interacting with the
buildings that are generally two and
three stories in height and so what we
have tried to do in our our revisions
and what we have in front of you today
is really reflect that in the front of
the building and so in some of these
rending you'll start to see and I want
you to really sort of understand that
the front of the building is a two-story
facade and we're trying to step it back
as much as we can to create depth and um
but at the end of the day that mass and
the proportion of that Mass on Main
Street is pretty reflective of what you
see going up and down your street it
creates a rhythm it creates a pattern
that that we think is pretty indicative
of the Main Street
guidelines um next page um this is
overall site plan um I I'll actually
will'll come back to it and let Ryan
kind of speak to this in a minute um but
I would like to go forward a couple
slides go one and then two we'll come
back that sound good
okay I'm afraid gonna go all
off okay
um I I'll try to point on that one so
that uh everybody can see I do have a
pointer um so this is Main Street
elevation um what you see in this in
this image is um Park View and uh is
basically to the to the left and as you
go up the street the parking lot and
city hall right behind us and so what
we've really tried to do is to do a
couple things one is to simplify the
massing simplify the materiality and by
doing so basically we've created two
sort of twostory facades along Main
Street you got one here and you have one
here and these elements create what
we're calling that sort of pedestrian
way or The Pedestrian scale of your
streetscape and and then in in doing so
I know one of the comments from before
was is this a midblock building or is
this a corner building what what I think
the intent of that comment is is we were
really sort of celebrating Corners in
the last concept and in and in this
design we've really sort of turned
things Inward and what we created is a
is an entry sequence for multiple things
so we have um a one-story restaurant
here that's sort of under this blue
canopy you see and then it returns back
in and then we get a really interesting
little corner little sort of inner
Courtyard piece that sort of allows the
streetcape to sort of pop in and out but
on the other side we have basically
retail on the other side that's divided
in half we actually have the opportunity
for for for entry here into a retail
space and then have a separate entry on
the other side because of topography
there's there's some changes that occur
as the building sort of steps down the
hill but um this interaction in this
little area right here really creates
kind of an interesting Dynamic of
Confluence and so you've got office and
um space on the second floor that has to
enter into the building you got retail
that has to enter into the building at
the same time you've got this dialogue
that happens across this so as a a
moment of sort of connection and and so
forth that really can happen pretty
quite quite well there the other piece
you see on this faade is basically just
simplification of the of the masses so
by carving and taking this part of the
building away we've actually introduced
a a a rooftop patio for um the um
multifam and so their Clubhouse features
here on the third floor on this corner
and then opens out onto a large space so
again activity there there's there's
there's vibrancy on that rooftop that
allows one it allows light to carve back
in here it erodes what's happening along
Main Street but more importantly um
provides a moment on that that that can
sort of continue to activate so we think
that those couple moves help to simplify
the massing on the front and and really
sort of Follow That rhythm of Main
Street so um if you want to flip I'll
just do a couple other quick things um
I think in this image you can start to
see what we mean by activating the
streetcape and sort of creating that
pedestrian scale um there's a limitless
number of opportunities for what's going
on here along this street and so um
reflecting you know engaging with it but
um allowing it to be a continuation of
of sort of your street Scapes uh next
slide just another little bit of a
closer up slide of the hierarchy of this
but I think um one of the comments we
heard and I hope we feel like we're
being pretty successful with it is
simplifying the hierarchy so what we
have is basically two masses that are
brick facades and then erode the top a
little bit by changing materiality um
and that vocabulary then turns the
corner and starts to become a rhythm for
the rest of the building so rather than
it being more halfhazard use of material
on a facade this is something that
is you know block of a building block of
a building um I think one of the
comments we've had a couple times was
what makes this uniquely Bexley and what
can make it uniquely uniquely bestly um
I I think that starting to have an
identity of its own that doesn't share
an identity with something else I think
is what we think makes sense and I think
these things along the streetscape also
tie it into what you know what's
happening in in in in your community so
uh next
slide this is just a closeup of uh that
little space we were talking about you
can kind of see potential outdoor dining
you've got potential entry into another
retail space so you you've got this sort
of Confluence and this Crossing of of
different things
happening um you can go to the next
slide if you
want this is looking at the um the other
corner so as we move up the streetscape
uh this is the parking lot here that
we're we're adjacent to and what we've
sort of started to develop here is a a
public node um I know Ryan can speak a
little more about it but we we don't
exactly know what this is yet but what
we're sort of indicating is that this is
the termination of a pedestrian
connection all the way up to to brighten
Road and so there's there's a cross
connection through the city that
terminates at this location um maybe it
can start to solve some of the
challenges of the parking lot here um
but definitely can activate this corner
in a way that we think can be really
really
successful um the other thing that's
interesting in this slide is part of
this discussion about a sixth floor um
in this slide you can see it a little
better um what we were able to do by
carving out this is you know we removed
several units and this here and we've
basically like taken a piece of the cake
and and placed it up on top and so we
would call this a partial sixth floor we
we we don't want it to be conf confused
that this is the entirety of the
building we're we're really only talking
about a sixth floor that's right here
and what's what's interesting about it
is obviously there's a staircase on this
side of the building there's a staircase
on the other side of the building buing
we got Central core uh circulation but
we can't just do like four units on the
top we we really needed to stretch it
across the the building in order to
connect it from vertical circulation to
Vertical circulation so um but partial
six floor um gives us the ability to to
create that really interesting Main
Street facade so um if you just flip
through maybe the next
thing is just starting to look at the
side a little more um one of the
comments I know we received was talking
a lot about the cornice and how we deal
with the corness of the brick building
the the roof line of the the piece above
that's sort of that gray material um so
we really sort of flipped it I think in
our first concept we were doing a much
heavier roof line at the top and a much
more subdued cornice for the brick and
here we we've kind of I think with um at
the recommendation of uh of the board
here we we did flip that we think it is
it is does work out and be quite
successful we think so you can start to
see the rhythm of the building as it
moves back um again creating more
vertical chunks of a building that are
more uniform in their materiality um not
nearly as halfhazard so the next couple
things um just kind of moving around the
building simplifying the hierarchy you
can kind of see it as you move along and
then the last thing on this piece would
be um again an erosion of this back
corner and so by changing the scale back
down to a two-story facade on the corner
here what it does is it allows there to
be a little more transparency through
the corners it makes the building seem a
little less massive in size because
we're kind of pulling these Corners back
but it also creates opportunity these
are obviously we could potentially have
roof Terraces here for these apartments
so um we can turn that into am minity
space that for those apartments um it it
it works out quite well it allows us to
also change materiality I know one of
the comments was how do we make this
back of the building a little quieter
how do we change the vocabulary as we
turn towards the residential
neighborhood we think that creating a
two-story piece allows us to change that
scale allows us to speak in a different
language as we kind of go around the
side so um obviously eager to hear your
feedback on that but um if you keep
going I think that's we're getting close
to what I wanted to share um we
certainly want to uh let you guys speak
let you ask questions and we're here to
to answer them so I don't know there's
anything else on the site that I really
want to go into I think we let's you
feel like there
is
we're here we'll ask we'll answer
questions if we need them so thank you
okay okay we will go next to the public
can I just have a show of hands of how
many people would like to speak
tonight two three four five okay so it
looks like we got seven or eight people
that might want to spot okay um so we
can you can come up one at a time
actually you want to SAR all
together okay so anybody who wants to
speak please stand up and um we will
swear you all in at one time to make it
go
quickly uh if you'd raise your right
hand uh do you swear that that you your
testimony tonight will be the truth and
nothing but the truth say I do thank you
and when you come up to the Lector and
if you would just identify your name and
your address thank
you okay um we are going to go head and
give everybody three minutes to talk and
just we would just ask that you just not
repeat what everyone has said before you
so um so if you would just come up one
at a time and we'll give your name and
address and then um just please tell us
your thoughts so who whoever would like
to go
first I love public speaking so I'll
just get this out of the way and please
if you would push the microphone down so
you can really I better hold it because
I'm so
short uh good evening my name is Lyn
Jeffrey and I've lived in Bexley for
almost my entire life which as you can
tell is a very long time I've watched
the city grow and seen firsthand The
Pride that people have in their homes
and neighborhoods in 2009 I purchased a
unit at the on the northeast corner at
the Alexander Evan enjoyed living there
for over 14 years I here this evening to
address the height mass and scale of the
pro proposed development
and I understand that's not exactly
building
materials but hopefully you'll see where
I'm going under the Bexley city code the
ARB is charged with maintaining building
scale appropriate to the neighborhood
and ensuring the capabil compatibility
of new development with existing
neighborhood uses what does
compatibility mean according to the
American Planning Association it is the
characteristics of different uses
activities or design which will allow
them to be located near each other in
harmony characteristics of compatibility
include height scale mass and bulk
compatibility does not mean the same as
but rather refers to the sensitivity and
maintaining the character of the
existing development or area to address
the compatibility issues at the ARB work
session with the developer a few weeks
ago one member of the ARB specifically
asked numerous times for a rendering
showing the mass of the compared to the
single family homes on Parkview and
Brighton to the best of our knowledge
this has not been submitted for review
by the board or the community nor have
renderings been submitted showing the
building from the northwest corner
although you mentioned today that they
had maybe been popped up but I was busy
all day so I apologize that I've not
seen those the ARB cannot completely
review or approve compatibility of
structure and architecture of a proposed
Building without all of the pertinent
information the scale in massive
development is complete opposite of
Harmony and compatibility for our
neighborhood it simply is not compatible
with the single family homes the
Alexander or the Parkview Arms we all
share our small West Central corner of
Bexley in the streets of Maine Parkview
Columbia and brighten a building with
more than 230 rental apartments and a
public parking garage of 300 plus spaces
does not share a community but rather
takes over the neighborhood variances
are granted to allow projects to De
deviate from the standard of the
building code in some way while the city
code allows for variances the variances
granted must still be compatible with
the neighborhood and follow the laws
provided for variances per section 125
4.14 Main Street District special
permits States special permits to allow
the maximum height of a structure up to
five stories or up to seven stories west
of Sheridan and south of main there
simply is not a special permit or
variance code to allow for a structure
with a a partial six floor story on this
parcel of land many people have said we
must have realized that it would be
redeveloped someday and I say to them
that back in 2009 when Trinity Lutheran
was in full
swing is that my time what would have
made us think it would be developed
someday and let me be clear I am not
against development I'm but simply very
much against this particular concept
which is the old saying goes appears to
be trying to fit a square peg in a round
hole what has been submitted for review
and approval which again is not a
complete set of renderings is clearly a
case of conflicting land uses including
M mismatch density height mass and
layout and does not meet the standard
for an affirmative recommendation to the
B set thank you thank
you the next person that would like to
speak please come
forward my name is Marsha Hirsch I live
at 500 South
Parkview my husband and I moved to
Bexley in 2021 to be near family we
purchased a unit in the Alexander and we
have enjoyed living here in this
beautiful and harmonious Community where
properties continue to hold their real
estate
values I have learned that under the
Bexley city code the Architectural
Review Board has the
responsibility to protect real estate
within the city from impairment or
destruction of
value I cannot see how this proposed
Redevelopment at 2200 East Maine can do
other than devalue my property and that
of
others the size of this proposed
building will mean a loss of
privacy a loss of peaceful views of the
sunrise
daylight trees and will be replaced with
a massive six story wall with
levels I'm sorry with views of the
public parking garage from a two lane
public road on the west side of the
buing
building how can this building as
proposed not contribute to devaluation
of our real estate if I were looking to
purchase property in Bexley now I would
not want to buy a unit in my
building the scope and design of this
proposed project will radically alter
the character and value of neighboring
Residential
Properties I ask you to consider my
comments and your responsibility to
protect Bexley real estate and not
approve this
project thank
you good evening and thank you for the
opportunity to offer comments on the
proposed development of the Trinity
appointments can we have your name an
address please coming thank you I am
Maria rosenal me and my husband live in
sou South 500 South Park View at the
Alexander my property abots the Trinity
parcel I have studied the latest
iteration of the proposed development
while the renderings provide multiple
views of the South View Main Street the
east facing City Hall and Bexley square
and the north sides of the building
there is only one image as of when we
got the information not
today one page of the west elevation and
this without any detail or views to and
from adjacent
properties still I can visualize from
the page that this is a massive five and
six six story continuous with blocks
which blocks sunlight from anything to
the West is immediately adjacent into my
windows and balcony and will directly
impact my access to Daylight and
views we are all aware of the importance
of daylight on the Health and Welfare of
everyone the Main Street development
guidelines note the need for high
quality of life and the design location
and appearance of Main Street and all
its architectural elements affect the
community's quality of life the Main
Street guidelines note that three to
four stories is ideal we could
understand some portions of the building
to be at five given the need for density
but six stories only a few thousand feet
from our home is not in alignment with
the Main Street guidelines and with Bley
long range planning
goals Architects are licensed to protect
the health safety and Welfare of the
public and to Shield consumers from
unqualified
practitioners I and my neighbors request
adjustments to provide relief and
daylight to protect our welfare and
enhance our community under the Bexley
city code the ARB has was established to
preserve and enhance the existing
character of residential neighborhoods I
have a number of questions which I don't
think have been
answered how does the proposed design
preserve or enhance the character of the
neighboring neighboring Residential
Properties to the quality and type of
materials complement neighboring
properties does the building consist of
foursided architecture or is it the
design diminished at the north and west
of the
building what is the lighting plan for
the building particularly on its north
and west
sides how does the design mitigate
negative environmental effects of the
proposed uses including a public parking
garage in terms of noise vibration dust
and loss of privacy on adjacent
Residential
Properties we need this questions
answered thank you thank
you next person
please joh Ral 500 South
par John Rous 500 South Parkview
Avenue uh in the
Alexander um most of what I had planned
to say you've asked me not to duplicate
so I
won't
um what I have to say is that the
proposed development does not preserve
the character of Main
Street in Bexley be bexley's Main Street
is a historical small town enir
environment and there are several
historical buildings within two blocks
of the proposed
building the proposed development and it
would be the most massive building for
miles around resembling multiple big
buck stores stacked on one top top on
one
another even with external modifications
it is still a five over one or a five
over Podium construction like hundreds
of massive multi-use buildings that are
commonly known as stick built or
woodframe construction built on top of a
level concrete and steel Podium there's
no other buildings like this built in
Bexley anywhere that I'm aware of they
only exist out in areas where there are
large clear areas where these buildings
can be built on flat ground without
Excavating a huge amount of soil from
the from the
site they cost anywhere from 30 to 40%
less to build than steel and concrete
buildings I don't believe Continental
has shown any consideration for the
historical preservation of bexley's Main
Street within the mixed use Zone Bexley
Gateway on the corner of Main and park
viw and the Alexander on Park viiew are
not modern buildings and they are
appropriate for Main Street design
guidelines they are
modern versions of contemporary
buildings that already exist in
Beckley the apartments south of brighten
are steel in concrete with solid brick
exteriors even the Market District fits
in well it's again a contemporary
version of the buildings that
exist
Beyond excuse me beyond the drexal
theater and all the way down to the the
condo built by and lived in by Frank
Cass at the corner of Main and Cassidy
there are very few
exceptions in closing yesterday I was
formed that the plan is to go forward
with a positive recommendations to Bap
for approval of height variance and
preliminary approval of design with
remand to the ARB to reind to re refine
details since I first became aware of
this deel vment I have walked around
Bexley stopping people on the street and
asking them if they lived here and if
they were aware of the project proposed
for the Trinity site everyone was and
everyone was opposed to it and I
suggested that they attend these
meetings their response was why should I
waste my time it's a done deal it
certainly seems like it since yesterday
and still this SE evening I asked my S I
ask myself the same
question because it is going to go
forward finally I would encourage people
who are interested in what five over one
or five over Podium construction is
to search for
wsu's public media 50 minute interview
titled the rise of five over one
apartment buildings that was published
only on September 21st and is available
on the WSU NPR uh site it's a 50 minute
long discussion with five Architects and
city planners about the the problems
that exist with five over one and fiber
propodium construction thank you thank
you that's on and that's
abut my name is Ru V Bronson um 530
South Park View I live in one of the
Brownstones I do appreciate this slide
this picture here right where this car
is is where my garage is this is
literally my view and what I want to
point out to the commission members is
what this building is going to do what
you see here all this Sky will all be
all in the building uh you know occupied
by the the proposed building this
picture here you can see that they have
shut it up so you still see Skyline
right so if you look down and up you
will see Skyline but for the people here
in the Alexander for the people here at
the park 3 residences all the sky all
the trees will be all
gone then we are looking indeed to a
west elevation the developer didn't
provide us with any information about
the west elevation except now you know
tonight it's not going to be very
pleasant for us to to look at this and
when our or when my neighbors are saying
you know we're not going to see anything
this will all be gone thank you for your
consideration thank
you good evening my name is James gross
I also live at
500 South perk viiew I just want to
comment you may not know that I spent 27
years of my
life uh with the city of Bexley 22 as a
City attorney I wrote most of the basic
I wrote the ARB the original ARB
ordinance what is really troubling to
me I called Karen on Saturday to observe
that there were certain portions of the
building which were not depicted there
were these side elevations but were
there were no
renderings there was the southwest
corner the southeast Corner the
northeast corner nothing on the
northwest corner so tonight we come and
suddenly today were filed renderings of
those buildings I don't see how you can
expect this is really I'm trying to I'm
I want to be respectful but this is very
troubling to me that the public is
invited to come to a meeting where there
are renderings that were supplied
today how do you
expect if if the public is to actually
believe that their views
count please explain to me how getting
them the day of the hearing for people
to
observe absorb talk
about is fair
play you're sending a very bad
message to the folks who live here and
pay taxes here and invest here
please think about what you're how
you're doing this it really pains
me and I respect you all in what you do
but this is not
right is there anyone
else good
evening um Britany for I live at 2201
Briden Road um lifetime
resident is it not on it has a green
light on you just have to get yeah just
get it closer well I can't not sure how
to get any closer to this um so Britany
Forton 2201 Brien Road um lifetime
resident of
Bexley um what I just want to comment on
is the size and scale of what I feel is
a behemoth structure that will forever
change
the views of those that live on
Briden it was nice to hear that in the
front and on the North West corner
there's some step
back um didn't hear anything about the
other Corner though I was surprised when
I went
online myself trying to understand where
the footprint is trying to match it up
with how tall the trees are that I have
how tall it is to my house how close and
when I realized how close it is to the
yard trees aren't even going to block
this so to me it is it is not just sight
lines that will be forever impacted full
grown trees will not block this it takes
years to even plant trees which will
never block the sight lines of what
would be hundreds of now windows and
prying eyes that essentially would be
directed right into our
Windows appreciate the comment of saying
well people bought this property yes my
parents bought this property more than
40 plus years ago do we think it's going
to be developed into something that is
six stories no right the Main Street
guidelines and I am going to repeat this
because I think it's important say that
it is what is ideal are three to four
stories so something that six stories
this massive I think is highly
inappropriate for this
area the other aspect that concerns me
greatly is the
parking so 320 parking spaces is what's
proposed or at least that's what I read
not sure if that's what still
stands if there were 218 units some
quick math tells me that that's not at
adequate most apartments are going to
have more than one of age driver then
you take into account
22,000 square feet of retail and office
space I do not understand how that is
enough parking which would be
overflowing I think onto the streets of
Parkview brighten Columbia
Drexel I would love to recommend an
alternative I think it should be within
the three to four stories as a Max or to
my knowledge Central Bexley does not
have a dedicated Green Space there's
dedicated Green Space in South Beckley
there's dedicated Green Space in North
Bexley I would love to see this area as
a dedicated Green Space for Bexley thank
you okay is there anyone else
um Jennifer Hirsch I live at 2265 Brien
Road your
name uh your name your name mod mod
Hersh where do you live with me yeah
okay me okay all right I appreciate the
attempts made by the architectural firm
to redesign the proposed large structure
the red brick adds charm and the setback
and tears add much needed Dimension and
the balconies give the building both a
higher end feel and again
Dimension however I am struck by the
quite contemporary F facade as noted
quite out of character for beex yes
there are other buildings on Main Street
that lean towards contemporary
architecture
but none of this massive size the view
from City Hall likewise is adorned in
red brick but we can note that the but
excuse me but we note the view from the
north almost entirely is almost what I
entirely assume is cement board or Hardy
Board and nine garage doors and from the
West a fair amount of brick is noted but
the overwhelming majority is again
cement board and
glass this is the view of the residence
of the Alexander if you were to add a
two-story section anywhere this would be
the
corner but I am more
troubled by the
trees there is still no attempt made to
preserve the large trees lining Main
Street and a rather inadequate attempt
to replace the greenery with
10 small trees in the front sorry I'm on
call um the east side has two medium
trees and seven trees or perhaps shrubs
eight trees along the back or the North
side and the West has six a reminder
that the proposal is to remove 50
well-established
trees and this is in with sorry this is
well within your purview as the board
may as a condition of certificate of
appropriateness for the project require
a plan for the preservation of existing
trees and other significant landscape
features I am sure we agree that the
current landscape is
significant what were you gonna say
mon speak for the trees I speak for the
cheese I'm not going to tell you what
you're going to say the green Rex trees
that are going to be torn down so please
don't take them
down I bought this house when I was
pregnant with this child
with intentions to stay here until I die
indeed I designed a house I can roll
right in to the
shower
but now I may have to stay simply
because I can't sell or can't make my
money back with any sort of
reason I'm worried about the density the
massiveness the the pop the
[Music]
pollution this space is supposed to be
safe and lovely and warm for all of us
this is why we bought
here this building takes that away from
us thank
you thank you
both okay is there anyone
else um uh my name is Angela Yak I live
at 2240 brighten
Road that's on the North side between
Drexel and
Columbia I've spoken several
times myself and Jenna have organized a
West West Beckley coalition to have our
voices heard I think up to this point
we've done a great job I think
originally this project probably been
pushed through very quickly um to make
individuals in the city happy um as well
as a
developer I am willing to take on the
man because it's the right thing to do
and rules and guidelines and laws are
for all to follow not just just the poor
but the rich as
well I'm going to ask again like I did
at another meeting is there anyone here
from Capital
University there has been so much
emphasis on this project about how the
city has to help save Capitol University
that there in such dire need for this
money what is more important the
University or its residents is there
anyone here from city
council I ask why is this project so
important to the mayor to the
council why are we asking for all these
changes and approvals and requests and
we're just pushing it
through
no one from any arm of the city
government has reached out to our group
the only individuals they've talked to
is the Alexander this includes
individuals in Columbia place as a as a
collective unit it's individuals on
brighten Road and especially those um
groups of homes that this will actually
be um up against um there's a lot of
money on the line here we were talking
about a tiff we're talking about another
Continental project on Main Street for a
tax abatement um there's a thing called
a clawback that if the revenue falls
short then count realy has to reimburse
Bexley we keep on just giving away to
individuals that want to develop when
are we going to stop when are we going
to have integrity when are we going to
stand up for what we believe in why did
we buy in this community why do we have
individuals that we want to raise in
this community why do we want to go to
Bexley schools this is a community it is
not for sale
do any of you live in West
Bexley I don't think so would you want
this to be your neighbor would you want
to see this every day would you want to
deal with this traffic the noise
pollution no so why is West Bexley
taking on the burden for
Beckley I am a divorced stay-at-home
parent with two kids my house is my
retirement you are screwing with my
future by approving this project are we
going to get money back from the city
for the loss of our our values of our
homes no that's not how this works we
are here to protect what we bought our
investments our
future in closing I'm just going to say
this on Election Day I encourage
residents to vote smartly and that that
was entitled because the mayor and
Council Representatives nominate
individuals to boards such as this our
government system in Begley does not
work the mayor should not be the
development director there should be a
check and balance just like in the US
government again this is not Upper
Arlington where they have a similar
project it's on Lane Avenue Upper
Arlington would never have this in Old
Arlington Main Street is old Arlington
so this is not Upper Arlington this is
not gra view this is Beckley I ask
Contin realy and Mr C Cass how about we
build a community center and we can name
it in your honor and we would all win
that is something something the whole
Community could get be behind and
support and it would benefit all of us
this is not a project that is worthy to
be in our neighborhood thank
you okay is there anyone else that would
like to
speak
sure could you please come up to the
lect turn so everyone can hear your
question thank
you there are two renderings in the most
recent uh PDF that we were given that
are completely missing uh that that were
very revealing and they are on page 17
and 18 of the PDF from
98 is it possible that you could show
that to people here who might not have
been in here during that meeting yeah
and what I'm actually going to ask is
for the applicant to come up and address
the west elevation specifically the back
of the building and some of your
concerns so because I know that they do
have drawings of some of those and they
really didn't go through and explain
them these are aerial these are aerial
renderings that were deleted after they
were really
soundly poo pooed at the previous
meeting from so these were from previous
from the meeting two months ago they
were from 98 from the PDFs that were
distributed or the on 98 Pages 17 and 18
no I I have look just to be clear I just
not specific to this project but I just
want everybody to be aware I never
delete anything so um it's not deleted
it's just in the prior submissions
folder which is all available online
I'll pull them up now but I just want to
be clear nothing nothing I know you
didn't delete them they just weren't
provided in the newest ones right thank
you because they're they're weren't new
material yeah thank you
Karen okay so is there anyone else new
that would like to
speak okay I'm gonna ask the uh the
applicants then to come back up and if
you can you heard some of the concerns a
lot about the west elevation some about
the back of the building um can you come
up and go through some of those
elevations and explain um what your
design does from those uh
perspectives
uh yeah happy to happy to address that
um if you could let's see let's start
with um I think the fourth or fifth
slide it's sort of the corner of Hudson
that's one this one so I mean I would
like to say that the the
elevations this image there's an image
in the back um there there is nothing in
these sets that we're trying to hide
these are pieces that have been included
uh from the the submission that was at
the deadline so um what you're seeing
here is a look down um The Space Between
the Alexander and the building um you're
you're looking along that facade I think
if you go to the back um rendering we
can at least talk a little bit more
about how I'll go one
more uh you could do one more because
it's a little more of a straight on so
we we chose not to take this from the
ground level because there is a fence
and so forth and we just we wanted to
make sure that you were able to see the
entire facade so um I know this is an
unrealistic view from the Trees of a
squirrel but the the reality is what
we're trying to show you is in more than
just in elevation kind of how this is
set up so we we we talked a little about
this two-story piece on the corner and
how we took the corner off the building
a little bit it helps it helps to open
up the massing of the building on the
corners this is the northeast corner we
also have done the the same thing on the
opposite corner we have the exact it
basically is a mirror of what you see
right here and it's just that we don't
have that image in this deck but this is
this it looks like this on a mirror side
so we have a two-story element and we
have um an eroded corner on this side
just like you see here so the
materiality does wrap and change in a in
much the same way what I think you start
to can see in this in this image is the
grade and the topography so the the
grade in the Topography is changing as
it's coming down this corner um so
there's what what you see on this end um
it's just harder it's harder for us to
render because of how the topography
does so if you go to the elevations is
probably the next place you can see both
the the back this is the front too so
let's go one more
slide so the north elevation and the
west elevation are included on this
slide and again this has been in the
deck so this is the back this is the
north elevation you can see the
two-story facade you can see the erode
Corner the same piece eroded Corner um
again we were told to try to think about
materiality as it changes around the
corners um a a massive amount of masonry
probably isn't appropriate on this
backside in our opinion so we went we we
tried to we tried to respond to that the
the elevation along the west side again
topography changes in a couple different
ways along this and so we we've included
this elevation
um in in this set if you would like I
think bring up the one side that we
that's SC sent today and again we we
wanted we wanted to make sure that we
had other images for people to see and
this is something we weren't able to get
done in time for uh the original
application so this is a photograph of
obviously in the parking lot at the
Alexander and I'd like to just I'd like
to just talk through this image for just
one second so what you're seeing here is
basically a one-story retaining element
this this Hills side Falls at a pretty
pretty steep rate and the topography
change between here and here is I me I
went out there and measured it it's
actually almost a story so it it what
you need to understand is that when we
when we come through with the new Street
we're actually coming in at a level that
is down here so this building that is
currently there and is actually in
almost the exact same plane from um what
you see right here as far as distance
from property line is one story below
ground here you've got a story and a
half of first floor because the way the
topography works this vestibule is
actually a half story low then you have
one two three plus a roof line that
makes up another piece so we we we
really compare this I'm not going to say
this is not higher this is higher but
this is not this is not at a height that
is up here it just isn't and I think
that we need to understand there is mass
and there is building that is currently
there so to say that there's nothing on
that site right now I I think is is not
entirely accurate but well I will say
that yes what we are putting up is um it
does fill that that space up more than
what's there but we do have these two
images and we're happy to talk about
them more so happy to answer any
questions that you might have on it so
um so you also brought a light study do
you want to talk about that I'm gon let
you because I know I didn't I didn't
produce it so I don't know what able
to Ryan Peis with the edge group uh 3:30
West Spring Street we did prepare a
quick Shadow study and it's still in
development we're trying to get rid of
the the dark colored roof so we can see
the the actual Shadows on the building
itself but I think what it what it is
trying to to depict is the shortest
daylight day of the year December 21 um
it is showing at 10: a.m cast Shadows um
by the time you get to noon the shadows
in the morning are relatively at the at
the base of the Alexander building so
that the thought is by noon the shadow
would be um the Alexander would not be
in Shadow anymore and we would start
going to sunlight for the entire
Alexander so as you go through the the
spring and summer months it only gets
better um likewise when when you get to
the um the evening time the four o'clock
Shadows obviously the the Shadows are
going to be cast to the east therefore
the Alexander and uh the Gateway are
really not impacted by our building um
it's really just a shadow study to try
to show what the actual Shadows are
going to be on the building in in in
reality um Karen do you have those
cross-sections
that they might show a little bit better
relationship I think to what's happening
with the grades and are they in the full
packet um no they were a separate thing
we just added color today for the tree
commission subm oh from your email for
the tree
commission yeah it would have been
today I don't even know what time and
just so everybody knows I mean we are
trying to do what we can to to keep the
process rolling and we're feeding
information as we're developing this um
we are submitting for the tree
commission um we submitted today we
talked to Elena yesterday I mean things
are rolling so fast on this that um
we're doing what we can as far as is
getting information
out so is this what you were looking
them for that is the the cross-sections
that if we can get them in higher
resolution and I had a question because
one of the residents was talking about
the trees in the renderings the trees
that they show is that the trees after
one year or is that the trees after 10
year I mean oh I mean when it comes to
planting design and planting plans we
don't design for a a landscape that's
going to be established in three years
five years I mean you're designing for a
landscape that's at least 15 10 or 15
years out you're getting some
establishment some maturity but really
the trees and the the plant material
aren't mature for 25 30 years out um now
on a commercial property on a commercial
property we do try to plant them a
little bit dens
to get a quicker establishment and give
some Foundation to the overall
development so I would say um planting
some of the shrubs at a closer
relationship than I might do at my house
or on if we're working on a single
family design
right
um there there we go so with with the
cross-section this is from as builts on
the Alexander so it's it's very accurate
I would say you can see the relationship
and the height of the two buildings when
it comes to the site and what is going
on and I think I heard Mr Rous talk
about uh five stories over the podium I
would venture to say that the Alexander
is a very similar
architectural type and although it's
it's not the exact same massing in the
north south Direction it's still a
similar or comparable um building Mass
to what is being proposed on this side
if if you combine it with the Gateway
and and you look at it as an overall
development
I'm I'm sorry but please be quiet while
he's speaking okay he was respectful
while you were speaking so please be
respectful while he is
speaking I'm I'm sorry but if you cannot
keep quiet you'll have to leave is there
any way you can zoom in on the the top
cross-section in particular
and I I think the other thing if as
you're looking at the sections the the
red dash line does show what the grades
are doing from the survey the existing
grades and where Brad was talking about
the the fall off of the existing site it
is about eight to 10 feet at that
property line um and and the other thing
that I would point out is along that
West property line currently there are
there are two trees that are basically
where the Alexander's um driveway
connects into our parking lot or the
existing parking lot today um very two
and a half inch maybe 3 inch caliper
trees they're small they're new um we
have shown a series of trees along that
entire property line to try to help
provide shade and canopy to the city on
the two parking lots um and also to help
buffer between the two uses so will it
will those trees be as large as they're
shown in the elevations and renderings
in 10 years probably not um how how far
is the Alexander built off of the lot
line so currently there is a a location
where the the eastern most portion of
the Alexander gets to within two feet of
the actual property
line if if you got out there today
there's a curb that's that's right there
actually I'm sorry the building is five
feet off the curb where the park car is
is about um that curb is about two feet
off of their building the actual
building is about 5 feet off the lot
line that's that's true yes the building
is about five feet off the property line
and then I we have another 10 feet of
green space before you get to the drive
a so that's where the the trees and the
the shrubs and we're trying to replace
the the Hedge that's out there along the
Rusty Bucket and the parking lot um
we're trying to do an in kind
replacement of the Hedge piece and the
the lower shrubs that are going to be on
it'll in the end it will be more like a
mound um once you get to the Alexander
there is a retaining wall that's out
there today and we're not exactly sure
if that's faced all the way down um so
our plan is to gradually take that mound
and trans transition that up to existing
grades um as it as it feathers to the
north so I see a dimension of what is
that 10 feet and then 22 feet and 10
feet correct so that's off of the lot
line that's the prop the side of the
Alexander to the lot line you've got
five feet and then 10 feet to the road
correct yes yeah and I think we're
showing about 45 feet of separation
between the building to the face of the
and you're putting trees on both side of
the street are you like we are putting
trees on both sides of the street on the
east side of that drive those are going
to be upright um trees just because of
limited plant area or plant bed along
the face of the building so those will
be upright trees um they're not going to
provide a lot of shade or canopy whereas
the trees that are on the west side of
the street will feel more like a a
street
tree
okay is there anything else you want to
address then as part of the landscaping
and or as part of anything that I mean I
I can quickly go through the site plan
but we really didn't we haven't changed
a lot um we did I mean it's really up to
the board members and I'll just
reiterate that another part of this
process is that and Ryan you already
know this but just to reiterate to the
audience that it needs to also go
through tree and public gardens
commission
correct okay um in respect of time why
don't we go to board members questions
and then um you can all come back up one
one last time to answer some of our
questions so is there a uh board
member yeah I just think he said it was
of similar
so he we all understand sir that it's
not being built over a parking garage
that it's not a true five over one not
that at all the AL John Rous the con the
Alexander Condominiums is a commercially
constructed steel and concrete building
with a garage on the first floor what
they're planning on building is a
concrete Podium with five at least five
stories of wood framed
con uh uh businesses and Apartments
built on top of that it is no different
than a woodframe condo built out in the
middle of nowhere it is a woodframe
condo ours is steel and concrete it is
dramatically different okay thank you
okay I'm gonna go to board members then
is there a board member that would like
to go
first
all right you're gonna make me
pick I'll go I'll go first Mr Mr higher
thank you uh well I appreciate all the
comments that I've heard and the
sensitivity to this building I'm
fascinated by this section because I
don't think the renderings actually
show what we're looking at here in the
sense that this five story line This is
the five story line corre correct
the fivestory roof line is almost the
same as the Alexander how is that
possible because the renderings don't
make it look that that way from the
street
views um now we don't have a cornice
line here at the top of four for a lot
of the side elevation and I'm wondering
if the perception of the height is and
this suits the arv I think um for what
we are here to do and that is can we
actually mask this fifth floor more with
a a more continuous cornice instead of
just at the brick portions of the
building um
now you know having that Fifth Fifth
story up here for the majority of what's
going to be there on the west and having
those be almost the same Plus notice
that the new building is further away
from the
Alexander and the road is invisible from
the first floor the fir the first level
of parking which is below grade over
here and would have been below grade if
you know the building if this grade was
kept here so the perception of this
building is one two three four and if
there's a cornice then there's the five
up here correct or is this the six
no because this is low this is below
grade right so 1 plus 5
right basement parking in that's four
over one on the podium no I understand
that but but in terms of the uh the
floors that are um above grade over on
this side is one + one two okay one plus
four so it's five total right yes and
then over here you this is kind of below
grade from where where we are now with
the current uh housing building right
the the brick buildings that exist so
we're going up one two floors higher
than what's there
currently and if we add a cornice here
the perception will be that we're really
only going up one floor that's my take
on this based on what I'm seeing here
this also has a top floor that's almost
the same as the new building except the
perception is that it's shorter because
of this cornice line and that's one of
the problems that I've had and you know
we we talk about this during the uh the
uh the charet is that you want this
perception right you want the perception
and the shadow line to be as low as
possible and then you can and I would I
was hoping that we'd be able to step
this facade back more
than what we're showing and I know it's
about where the structural lines are and
the materials but the way that you can
uh compensate for that is by having a
little more overhang than even what
you're showing now um that would include
the brick areas and then maybe it
switches to the metal condition or uh
where you where you where you don't so
part of the problem is you still have
all of this height I'm not saying that
you need to switch material
but could you you know actually bring
you know make this top
floor uh be more have this be more
commensurate with the Alexander by
having a you know a cornice line that
was I'm not saying it has to be the
whole thing is the same because that'll
feel monotonous but is there a way to
break it up it doesn't no I wouldn't do
the whole thing like I would just go
this section maybe this section and that
section and in a sense what's happening
is what we tried to do at the front
which was to I mean and this this was a
great uh advancement as far as I'm
concerned in this design was that you
have this recess on Main Street that now
the proportions are vertical of these
two end components as opposed to being
one long facade I don't think we're
there yet on the west um even though
you've broken it up with material you
haven't really broken it up in terms of
uh recess and I think that was a couple
of the comments that we had during the
working session how can you do that um I
know you're maxing out all the floor
area you can possibly get for your
apartments but there's got to be a way
to visually break uh the monotony of the
stacking of the floors that's it it
you're doing it here I understand that
okay and you you've got this brick
cornice here but this is what people in
the Alexander are going to see and as
far as I can tell the Alexander uh
because there's a retaining wall that's
actually going to be this tall is that
correct it's going to come up to about
here oh it's being removed but the SE go
back to that
section so what's
this yeah you mounding up to a retaining
wall correct yes so there's an existing
retaining wall that's coming off the
south side of the Alexander to get into
their um service area right but does
this fade away because the grade goes up
as you get to the back to the north
we're GNA actually excavate and keep the
wall where it is so we'll have a mound
that tapers into this this I guess
larger Mound so as you go to the South
by the the actual parking lot it tapers
away it'll taper down and it might be
more like a three foot High Mound but
that's at the Gateway and not at the
Alexander correct yep and Alexander the
grade will be held up at the the grade
that it is hitting the building today
yes so the visible the visible floors
will be I mean people can look down into
this but in terms of floors actually
being added from what's existing where
we have these two correct okay y so
again the the the monotony of the facade
is is my problem and it's it's about
materiality and it's about Cornus lines
and it's about perception of the floors
just like the Alexander you have a
perception of it being one two 3 four
but in fact it's five uh and then
there's below grade as well so can that
be improved upon
um and then uh
the the the go back to the elevation if
yeah right here so here you have where
you stepped back I think one of the
things that we thought coming out of the
working session um the charet was that
this facade
would also not be straight up and down
for that whole North elevation and the
idea that I think a couple of board
members had mentioned was you know as
you work your way back that it gets
broken down well it's not really getting
broken down it's just a material change
except for this one corner here and is
there a way to break this down even more
and again is it is it material change
only or is it going to be cornice lines
is it going to be you know cutting away
back here and taking away square footage
in order to reduce this effect because
this is what will be visible one layer
of the parking plus one two three four
layers of uh Hardy Board Siding I guess
is what it is with this really being the
only
recess into the facade these don't
really count in as far as I'm concerned
because the it's such a shallow recess
this one works right but can it can it
be broken down even more so I did walk
back there uh after the charet and I did
note how I did note the distance from
this facade to the backline of the
houses on Park View but I think that I
mean sorry I'm brighten but the sense
that it's not broken down I think uh is
part of um the problem here it's not
Bren broken down as much um I will also
note that this six story section is
directly east of the Gateway building
and the Alexander is somewhere I'm
understanding is somewhere in here
correct
okay
so the the the Main Street ele
which is what we I think talked about a
lot in
our charet I think has come a long way
and I think it's there's a lot of
success going on there in terms of
materiality the brick uh the brick usage
um I think it's it's fitting for Beckley
and I like where it's going the
commercial aspect of it fits into the
Main Street guidelines and what we're
looking at for the commercial
Corridor but but the residential side as
we work our way back to the north I
still think that there's some work to do
on that um the cornices if we go back to
the let's go to the Hudson 29 elevation
or perspective view we can go to that
one
yeah
so this cornice line is
it's it's working but I was hoping it
was going to mask more of that fifth
floor uh maybe it needs to have a little
more overhang than what we're showing
here this is nicely
downplayed uh uh but then you get to the
sixth floor and I think you're you're
negating the the the trying to play Down
the sixth floor by creating this Shadow
line of a of a deeper cornice I I'm not
sure that this is the way you want want
this to work um because now it really
reads like a tall sixth floor as opposed
to what you're what we're trying to do
here with a Cornus line above four floor
four and reducing this but then why
would we come back in and do a deep dark
cornice line at six so those are things
to think about those are my those are my
comments and criticisms of the
architectural image and what I was kind
of expecting to come out out of our
charet but I very much appreciate the
public space uh the pocket at the um in
the middle of the block which really
helped to uh bring the scale uh of the
vertical portions of the massing into
into play with um as you showed on your
noie plan uh with with Main Street so
that I think that's uh quite successful
but there's other things here that can
help to mitigate the height issues I
also don't think it's helpful that you
have you know these spandrel uh vertical
elements I I just don't think that that
really plays into um a residential scale
which is really what we're trying to
accomplish towards the back of the
building so the fact that these are like
vertical brick columns doesn't really
play into a Bexley character it's not
even Arena District character honestly I
mean Arena District you have more
traditional brick buildings with
cornices um and there are vertical peers
but the windows some of them do I I
grant you there are some that do that
but the but that's not I don't think
that's Beckley honestly this is more
successful I think there's more to do
back here and certainly you know
downplaying these verticals will will be
helpful but overall this that we worked
so much on in the in the charet um
having that public space um is a great
benefit um and I think it it's um it's
much more of an urban success on the on
Main Street now uh since our last
session
so those are those are my
comments question I think is that
okay yes please come to the mic with
your name please yeah I it understand I
remember listening to you what's your
name sir I'm sorry Don Marner I live at
2250
brighten I remember your comment
specifically from the last ARB meeting
you were very and and again I think
they've done a a pretty good job of
addressing the issue on Main Street
relative to the open space and exess you
know and stepping the building back but
if if you could I don't know if you're
able to do this or not but if you could
pull up the two the previous example or
the previous submitt that was done and
compare it to and those especially those
elevations that we're talking about the
North and the West Side compare those in
terms of
massing U from what was proposed
previously and what they're proposing
now and I guess my point is is you've
done a great job and they've done a
great job of focusing on Main
Street but they haven't necessarily
addressed the issues that again you
you've touched on relative to the the
residential sides of all this you know
um the massing is is as bad or worse
because now we've added an additional
floor
they've added additional units I mean
the the whole thinking was after we left
the meeting in September I think it was
was that okay there's too much going
there's too much going on here keep my
hands to myself and um you know it needs
to be scaled back but in reality they're
adding additional units to the design
and to the development from what they
had proposed previously the massing
really hasn't changed there is very
little in terms of in andout other than
the corner that they they've talked
about or the two corners you're talking
about the the North and the West yeah
and well I guess I'm talking about all
three sides of the three sides of the
building other than Main Street right so
again I don't see that there has been I
mean it's we changed materials there's a
different look they've obviously gotten
away from the the the wings on the
corner of the of Main Street or on the
two corners of the building but in
reality the massing in the scale of the
building hasn't changed it's actually
gotten worse because of the additional
Flor I well thank you for your comments
um but I disagree and and to and and we
are asking for more improvements to the
west and to the north and to the east
side okay so if that's the case but
there there there are ways to step back
building so the perception from the
ground is not a worse scale but actually
a better scale that's what I've been
working with them and all the board
members have been working with them to
try to achieve if you're saying that
they're adding square footage to this
building from what we had before I'm
unaware of that and if that's the case
then that needs to change well it seems
like there's more units so I don't know
if that seems like or well there are I
mean I
know yeah okay and additional parking
which which addresses one of the issues
that we've raised which is number of the
variants and things like and I know
that's a separate issue I think with
with with zoning and things like that I
understand can I just finish my sure Sor
so what we are asking for is
improvements to the west and the North
and the East okay and the cornice lines
and The Impressions that we have from
the street on all sides the grade levels
that I'm that I'm grasping you know in
terms of what your perception is going
to be we're sensitive to that whether
you're in the Alexander or whether
you're uh you know on Main Street or
you're at City Hall or you're at Brasa
these are all important to us Brien Road
okay which there's no road going back
there anymore there's just a well
there's still road going back there
there won't be
it's still shown on the plans that's
shown it's a bike it's a pedestrian
but yeah well it's still wide enough for
a car to be driving around through there
I'm finished with my comments thank you
you want to go on to another board
member thank you Mr
Hall
um I think what
this Evolution has shown is some of the
things that we were saying early on
cutting back
building the building really help the
scale so think the Main Street elevation
has come a long way um I agree that the
the West the North and and the East
elevations all need some more temp
theing on the door where you kind of it
in and out parts of the building the
that starts to help out the man on the
corners the other thing and Phil pointed
out that I really when I looked at this
first this afterno was the faade that's
facing City Hall um and that has
these long columns looking like
briu
with with the black down the
hill building on every other side a
bunch of punch openings and you know
that that build
place I I don't think that a very strong
language that you know another really
strong look at the back to the U the
Main Street
elevation the on the upper Flor add 64 I
I think adding that 64 is actually
improve the I think a lot of building
going on on one level and being able to
PO that up actually improves and
enhances those two patios that are
paos back are those two areas out front
are those going to be accept to those
units it's not shown on the plan that
way
currently I I think everywhere where
there's a cut back or a recess whatever
there should be access from the inside
of the building
alab that's what's going to help is to
activate those patio and start to see
people up there um the other thing is
this uh um this Courtyard if you want to
call it that where you're showing the
outdoor dining associated with the
restaurant I think right now you're
showing the Ste lighting been going over
eventually that that dining is going
want to be covered and I I think I'd
rather see that being designed into the
building versus applied building so what
you see a lot with these structur is
that best solution becomes a a Fab onw
that's that that takes care of that so I
think that needs to be explored I love
how it recess I think this whole
interior Courtyard area is is can really
be a fascinating place to go and hang
out and um have an
experience um the other thing is that I
noticed is the of the minor com the um
when you come into the building your
only way must on the second floor you're
going to put tenants up there correct so
really the only way to get them is good
and understand that that vertical
connection is an elevator I don't know
if this Lobby where you come
in yeah that's that's not even a two
story Lobby so that you come into the
main of the building it's
not walking into the ceiling an elevator
and you got to work your way up so I
don't know if there a way to enhance
that Lobby to make you the lower level
you walk in feel more connected to the
upper level somehow some way I think
that would a great eff all
set thank you Mr
steal a lot of my
comments
steing back's
way program that space
on that up and
maybe actual
back
course I think
um the fact that the bottom of
build reality
not
I'm
thank you Mr
Scott sure thank
you so
um
agree with some of the comments tonight
about last minute submitt of
information for not only the community
but our board to review uh specifically
on a project of this scale and
importance in our city uh it makes it
very difficult for us to have to review
that minutes before a presentation or a
meeting
um a lot of times that
happens on smaller projects and front
porches and little additions that people
are doing in our community and as a
board we do our best to accommodate that
for our residences uh but this building
is is is an anomaly for us to be
reviewing and for the community to be
discussing uh so I agree that we we need
to strive to get that information and um
as a board member and I can't speak for
all the other board members but um at
times that information I can look at and
review but I may need to to pause and
couldn't even delay a project until I I
can digest and see all that that being
said
um I appreciate the efforts and and how
much this design team uh from the
landscape um even civil uh and um
architecture um and the owner has
listened to this board to try to move
this project into a direction
where the architecture um is relative to
its location its context and its
surrounding neighborhood it is difficult
because the site is Zone what it is and
it's not privy to our board uh it has a
very has parameters by which it can be
built and any developer can come in and
build that
project and uh this developer has chose
to do this and we have to react to that
um if we could easily fight and say no
and then he sells it and someone else
does something else and we'll be right
back here uh so what we try to do as a
board is to push for for what we feel is
quality project and something that
addresses 360 Degrees around the
building we have started to see some
improvement on the communication of that
design from this client on the North and
the West Side uh there has been a lot of
focus on the South Side on Main Street
and I think as you've heard from other
board members and me previously uh we
feel it's getting very
successful um one of the topics that
people have mentioned tonight is the
sixth story which is Big right it is
tall on on Main Street but that six
story is South the north side of that
sixth story is south of the Gateway
North Side so it's it's it's not at the
Alexander where people are living it's
on the commercial side of that
development thank you did not know that
uh so but it's still on the commercial
side of what I would call the
development of of the programming of
this site uh and then of course we have
pushed for trying to to have the
building step and be more reactive
towards the north side of the site and
um I I feel that the the what the
designers have brought to this meeting
tonight in this development has gone a
long way to start to break that corner
down there's been comments from the
other boards Mr hire and uh Mr Hall
about maybe continuing to push that I
agree with that I think uh massing wise
and prog in and leasable square footage
is a challenge we I deal with it every
day uh but using facade and materials
and cornices and and the Alexander is a
good example that fifth floor uh is a
manard roof style but it is still a
floor so there's ways to do that on a
facade to helps change the scale of the
building to help address the
neighborhood and I think the Architects
have have gone a long way with the
massing of that uh but need to continue
working on that facade the north facade
uh in addition to what Mr H higher said
I think is come a long way and we're
starting to see what that is but I'd
like we I think we still need to get
some more clear images of of how that is
where I think this project right now is
is really lacking is and I think it's a
result and I don't want to put words in
the oban's uh mouth but it's it's a
result of focusing on so many aspects
because it is a large building and
there's limited time is that West facade
I think the West facade is the least
successful architex it's different than
the East facade and there's a long
really where the Alexander and those r
residents are looking at is really kind
of the blankest wall of the entire
project so I think there needs to be a
lot of attention to that facade I don't
know how much you can break it up by you
know doing recess balconies or things
within the unit I I'm pretty sure you
can't just pull units out because I know
how these buildings work um but there's
a lot of things you can do to help
continue to break down that facade I
think Mr hire's comments about the
cornice and breaking down and letting
that fifth floor kind of be more of a
manard I would never necessarily say
manard roof but have that feeling of the
break I think is is a is a good good way
to continue to address that if you look
at that building section which I think
is is really important to understand
this building is a five-story Building
compared next door to a fivestory
building even if you look at that site
plane again please I want to not note
though this site is significantly larger
in its acreage than the Alexander and
The Gateway project if you were to scale
up that building proportionately the
figure ground of two buildings that are
to the West versus this new building
which is what I call a double a double
Courtyard with a courtyard on the south
uh the actual figure ground is fairly
similar in what building coverage is to
the landscape the difference here is
that two internal Courtyards are not
seen and you have a lot of mass wall on
the exterior we have had conversations
with the the uh architect and the
designers to try to open those
Courtyards up and that's the resulting
was they kind of cut the South facade
and help break down that massing on Main
street that is what added those units to
the sixth floor
um yeah well that's the figure ground so
if you zoomed into and well and I think
this is also very interesting because I
think this is good to see because the I
this building isn't by itself we have a
very large building which uh a lot of
residents are here tonight next to to
the west of it it also cast Shadows
significantly to its neighbors to the
north and to the West um and though
those are different types of properties
we have the bank we have some apartments
in the single fam in the north uh you
know there's there's a significant
aspect of you know relationship between
these two and and being both at five
stories yes this building is going to
Shadow some of the lower floors of the
Alexander uh but not all of them and
then also if you go back to the site
plan there's a relationship that the the
this developer has has pulled the
building off of the north facade well
I'm sorry the north property line the
Alexander being two feet from its
property line if you could imagine this
building being two feet from the
property line on the East that would put
these building side by side and that
actually you wouldn't be able to do that
in building code based on what the
Alexandria Alexander was able to do um
so this building's pulled off with this
road which is is I think the developer
by sinking the access to the lower
garage kind of shields that lower floor
but the distance between the the
Alexander and the single family to the
North in relationship to this building
in the single families on Brien to the
north is almost three times the distance
so there is a if you up a little bit the
single familyes not so there is a there
is a fairly significant buffer and some
Landscaping we were walking the site
last after our last meeting yes we have
a five story building looming in the
backyard of these single family homes
but in the overall development of this
site I think in this density and what
they're doing and and all the things
that they are I guess allowed to do they
are trying to make these gestures to
help soften that blow and I think we're
trying to work with them on the massing
as well as the the the materiality of
these facades and how it's treated to
help one bring quality but also change
that scale so it's something that is
attractive to look at when you're in
your backyard um you know that we can
only take it so far because we can't pay
for the building um but you know and if
if this was going forward we're really
as a board trying to get that quality
brought out so as overall I felt it
necessary tonight to kind of backtrack
and give a summary of our approach to
all of this um and the efforts that the
the developer has made and the archit Sy
have made uh and the landscape architect
sorry r
GNA mention you by name uh so in that I
think I would like to my official
comment of of going forward is really
starting to develop and looking at that
West facade I think there's some some
more work that has to happen on that
because of its proximity and to the
Alexander and what they're going to be
looking at every day uh I think the
north facade has has come a long way uh
and I have less concern about its impact
because of how we step the corners down
and it's softening that building massing
in its feel of its kind of it presence
uh which I think is very successful uh
and I also like the the can you go to
the east facade parking
view the the efforts that have been
moved forward on this the the public
spaces at the southeast corner I think
are quite successful uh and and I
appreciate all of the the um
incorporation of our comments from our
previous meetings there should one from
like over City Hall looking
back how this the the proposed building
and I do agree with this the kind of
large bay windows I I I'm not against
having some articulation on the brick
but I think the dark band between each
floor is almost too dark it's it's it's
not necessarily A bexy idea but having
maybe a little bit more color match to
The Brick would help soften that up but
also give you more punched window feel
um but overall the massing and the
approach to how you're breaking this
down in the kind of Flor m masses with a
field in between is I think successful
but how the building sits at the grade
how the building comes and meets the
grade and meets this parking lot I think
it was actually quite successful the
Landscaping softens softens all these
transitions we have two major parking
garage entrance here and a and a major
entry into the building but it doesn't
feel um like I'm sitting in on just a
big blank parking lot so I appreciate
the efforts that landscape has done and
and and the owner done on kind of the
arch have done kind of soften that and I
think the parking garage at this kind of
two-story corner is actually quite
successful so I appreciate that thank
you that's all I have to say thank you
can I add one more thing um before you
make your comments sure is it possible
to get the rendering so that we see the
neighborhood in
context because all of these have a
greencape in the background but not the
real urban condition uh of Bexley and it
would also might it might be helpful to
actually do some
renderings uh utilizing A A View From
Brien Road and looking you know through
the properties uh I I mean I'm not a I'm
not as techsavvy as I'm sure the people
who are working in the Architecture Firm
landscape but there's there's got to be
a way to somehow render that in in the
in the views that would be really
helpful um thank you I actually think a
lot of what Pete said um reflects my
same thoughts and
um I I originally was pushing for the
cutout that ended up on the front of the
building to be on the side because I
felt that there's very few times that
you are actually standing and looking at
the face of the building and the face of
the building on Main Street is similar
in size to the to the Gateway project my
concern has always been that we needed
breaks along the side um and on the east
side of it I think that will be seen a
lot as people are driving um down Main
Street I I think that you know that
whole side of the building is um it's a
big and it's similar then on the west
side for the residents who live in uh in
the
Alexander and you know that the the
Alexander and Gateway although they are
one project they were broken into two
buildings
and I know we can't break this into two
buildings but I think the perception
would be really nice if there was
something that made it feel um a little
bit more broken down and so my worry was
that by doing such something so amazing
on Main Street we were going to give up
breaking the building up on the uh East
and the West
Side um I also think that the West Side
deserves a little bit more brick
so um you know when when I look at that
facade it just feels to me that there's
it's too much paint um and especially
compared to the front but again this is
the the East yeah and so this West Side
going down uh or actually that's the
back and again the back doesn't bother
me as much because I don't think that
with the fences that are in the
backyards of of the people in briding
and the amount of distance there if we
put brick on the first couple floors I
don't even think you would see them
because um because of the you know the
distance and the and the Landscaping so
I am more concerned about the West Side
um that again I don't think there's
enough brick on the west side and I I'd
love to see something that that broke it
up more um similar to what Mr hire was
asking for
so I do think that we have made a lot of
progress and I understand that a lot of
people in this audience are not happy
about this building being built at all
but the reality is this board did not
bring this project here we did not
decide you know what happens on this
site we are only to react to what is
here and we are trying to make sure that
what gets built is the absolute best
project that can be
built um it is a very strange process
because people are working every day
updating drawings trying to get us more
information and they could sit on it and
wait and to bring it to us next month
but by that time it might be too late in
some way they think that by bringing it
today they may be answering a question
of yours so I hope you don't take that
that they are trying to slide it in last
minute and bamboozle you because that is
not what happens and this board deals
with this on every
project and we don't like it because it
does leave us where we are last minute
trying to see what has come in but it
does help all of you when you proposed
for your project to be done it helped
you
this board tries to work with the
community and do the best we can for
everyone involved owners neighbors City
everyone and so I hope that you
understand that and that you will give
us some courtesy as we work through this
process that we are trying to make sure
that this project is the best that it
can
be um with
that would you like to come up and and
go through any more um
explanations yeah if we could um you
know I I I want to thank you all for the
time and efforts we put in here and I
hope you comprehend that you know we are
trying to address and react to the
comments I mean I think we've seen that
in the progress that we've made over the
course of the project so far there are
just realities to things you know
obviously with schedules are important
you know I think Frank has indicated
prior that you know we have deadlines
that are associated with capital that
comeing December um you we feel like
we're pretty close and some of the
issues and concerns that have been
raised are you know all simplified are
relatively minor um you know we're I'm
an engineer looks a lot to me like maybe
it's some Lego block stuff just moving
things around and kind of cleaning it up
maybe I'm wrong on that but ultimately
where where we are is you know we are
really trying
to fit in and address concerns that are
raised by you but we'll also get to a
point where we actually have a project
that's moving forward and you know we do
have a closing date that's coming up
that we have to there's no extending it
it's it is what it is so what what I
guess what I'm wondering sitting here
today is you know I'm not sure that
there is a way or if there is and
Katherine I'll lean on you on this if
there's a process that we could either
have a another meeting in the next
couple weeks where we can sit down and
and address these concerns because I I
do believe that they're relatively easy
to address um and bring it back to you
um I recognize you know some of the
information has come in today uh is you
know in some for some folks would feel
like it's it's a late notice or late
information it's really intended to try
to improve
communication uh just to to understand
that you know these drawings obviously
in our world is something that we look
at all the time and we understand the
public is not a custom to them but the
renderings are are really pretty
pictures right that's the real
information that's on the wall right now
that's really what we should all be
reacting to and that was in the packet
that we submitted originally um with
that mind you know what what I guess
what I'm hoping for and Katherine I
don't if you can weigh in on this but
you know is there a a way to have
another meeting uh maybe in two weeks
where we have a week to address these
comments because they do feel minor to
me and and that we can get those back to
you and then are you asking for another
work session or are you asking for
another another board session because I
I think I don't think we're far off uh
and maybe I'm I'm I'm misreading the
room but I believe the way we we stand
right now with you all is is some minor
adjustments on the west
elevation uh potentially a little bit of
a more look at on the North side but
those feel
relatively minor from my perspective and
then just some additional information on
the east side
so is that a feasible solution the
problem is we have the calendar and I
recognize in December your your your
boards are not active so that's the
doing the math in theory it's fine I
mean I don't mind at all as the staff
coordinating it the reason we don't have
a meeting of for beap in two weeks is
that it's
Thanksgiving and so beap in November
November is pushed back a week usually
so it's November
30th um we meet on an alternate night I
mean I know Thursdays are the key
although I'd be willing to meet here on
Thanksgiving if few I need to have this
project through so that's where I'm a
little desperate here I I would be
willing to even go as far as to say if
we can get a recommendation with
conditions that we come back we can do
that as well um you know if there is a
possible way to make that happen and
what do you need you need something from
Bap saying that it's approved or you
need a recommendation from us we well I
think I understand the process to be
that we need a recommendation from you
to go to Bap uh I mean there is the
chance that we take the rejection and go
to Bap but I'm not sure how successful
that would be but you know my my
preference obviously is given where we
are you know schedule wise I mean we are
really up against the wall here and and
need some a solution yeah and un
unfortunately we have the holidays so
there are many of us that will be out of
town for you know the week of
Thanksgiving and um I just I just don't
know that they're yeah I'm just get in
that quickly is gonna happen I just I'm
looking to you Katherine does it make
sense to take it to be app though to
look at the sixth floor because
ultimately you've got to get a variance
from beap from sixth floor and I feel
like we're back to like getting a
turn your microphone on
here
um yeah
typically I need I have my code up and
I'll have to look at it but typically
what happens is that there is
a a recommendation that goes to beap you
know you hope for approval sometimes is
disapproval sometimes the recommendation
is no recommendation or a request to
remand to finalize the architecture I
think we Chang that code I'll have to
look at it to be sure what the language
is so one one option may be to move it
forward you could also have a special
meeting but it's it's the timing of
getting that done this board could
schedule a special meeting and have a
second hearing on it but in order to get
give you the time to get them what they
need and for them to meet and not meet
the week of Thanksgiving you're
basically talking about a special
meeting in a week um in order to get
that done which is likely not sufficient
for either side to for you to get it
done and for them to have time to review
to have a meeting so that's that's one
of the issues to do that maybe I can
offer this and you know we've been going
at it for two hours now if we could do a
brief recess or something and I could
talk to consultant staff make sure I'm
not putting them in a pickle of what
they can complete you know everybody
thinks just a push of the button but it
it really isn't right so so um C you
know if we had 10 minutes could talk
through the issues come back um and I
can outline a game plan on as far as
timing and schedule maybe that works for
you all yeah I think
that's it's in December I I don't know a
specific date middle of December Before
Christmas yeah and so by that you need
something from Bap that correct that Bap
has approved it and and
and if but if it has to come back to
us that doesn't hurt you as long as Bap
has said
that you're also assuming that Bap will
approve you in one meeting or have a
special meeting they could also have a
special
meeting yeah I'm not expecting the whole
shot here but I you know I I really
would think that we
could it you know I I hear your comments
I and maybe it's just the optimism I
have from working with Frank and where
we are from where we started and it
feels like we're really very close
so um yeah I mean I I will say you have
made great strides I think this board
feels that you have listened and and
tried so
um um would it be possible because of
the importance of this project to have a
special
ARB session in December and then a
special Bap session to follow that in
order to expedite but also to make sure
that everybody has a chance to see what
we've been asking for before it goes to
Bap and make that we make that
recommendation that's not to guarantee
that a special session that Bap is going
to give and and and maybe to Karen's
point it would be worthwhile to be heard
at Bap in the the next meeting uh just
as a point of addressing where we are
from August you know so just so
everybody sees that and then follow the
appropriate steps yeah I personally
think you should come to beap next month
I mean next November 30th no matter what
even if it's just for an update because
if you have very negative feedback on
the sixth story which we're all in
supportive you want to hear it before
yeah
okay I mean do that as just an update I
mean I feel line asking the question but
if I could have a recess briefly with
the I think that's good idea consultant
team I think that that's great um we'll
all take a recess so we can use the
facil the facilities and we'll just be
back here in 10 minutes okay great thank
you yours is the US oh yeah
well I'm
not I'm
not
they got
allow all right I'm just I I don't know
I
just go and ask for the
I
like I
didn't not recommend to approve to be
that
the
okay we're
gonna come back to order again
please okay I'm gonna ask the applicant
to come back up and let's talk about
next
steps
so what is it that you are asking for um
I think based on the conversation with
Katherine it would be a recommendation
for a remand back I'll let her explain
the legal ease of that but it would be
it would allow to go to beap but still
ultimately need to come back here is
that correct so we would be able to go
to beap for the November 30th hearing
then you know respectfully request a
second I'll call special meeting in
December early December to you know
React to what we've Advanced and then go
back to a special meeting in Bap for
final approval assuming that we can meet
the
requirements is am I am I communicating
that correctly yeah so the way that the
the code is written in order to move
forward to Bap there has to be some kind
of decision made here or if the or the
applicant can refuse to table because
it's their choice to table or not if
they refuse to table then it would um
just move forward so one of the things
that the Cod would allow is that this
board and we've the board has done it
before many times but the board could um
make a recommendation to the
um to the Bap make a recommendation to
for approval or that it forward it be
forwarded to beap but for final deter be
remanded back to a B for determination
of the certificate appropriateness okay
let me ask you this yeah because VAP has
already discussed this project it it
went before them on for an informal
review only so can it go back to them
for informal review again it can't well
it won't help the applicant if that
happens because they're going to have to
they they cannot in an informal review
make any Final determinations on special
permits or or variances or anything like
that they would really have to make a
final decision on those items for most
applicants to to make the kinds of
decisions that they're going to have to
make before closing so you're saying
they can't make a final decision but
they can give them Direction like they
did the first time that they went to be
not not on a variance they we didn't get
a direction it was public comment and
then sent back sent to you all right
it's not really they can't sort of give
them an informal decision
they would it would have to go to them
for a formal determination they could
decide that they don't have enough
evidence and and table it they could set
another their own special meeting if
they wanted to but they cannot just have
an informal meeting and give them
appropriate feedback they would have to
present evidence hear the evidence it'
have to be in the record and they would
have to decide whether they had enough
evidence or they wanted the applicant
needed to table and have another hearing
which would be up to the appli and when
is the next scheduled Bap meeting 30 of
this month okay so you are asking then
for us to remand to them and then you
want a special meeting in December
correct but at that
point so you're still trying to get us
to approve it before your deadline
correct because we'll we'll I mean I'm
assuming I'm going to need Bap approval
I'm I doubt we'll get approval on the
30th
given where we are today with with your
group but doesn't doesn't be Bap have
the power if we say we want it remanded
they don't have to they could say no
they could say no and the public
perception of that to me is
wrong that they could say no well that
the public knows that they could say no
that they could say it's not going back
to ARB I don't think that has ever
happened in the history of Beckley
technically it could happen technically
it could because it is because here's
here's the way it works the jurisdiction
the because there are are special
permits now a variants associated with
this application the jurisdiction for
final determination of everything is
with
Bap it comes to you first because you
have the expertise and you go up with a
recommendation to beap but the final
determination is theirs historically
what has happened in Bexley most of the
time and particularly in a project of
this magnitude is that it and and I
think the code all now allows you at one
time it was unclear but I think the code
now allows you to request that it be
remanded back to you for final
determination at one time that was not
as clear I think as it is now and so
when that happens you can request that
it be recommended back to you come back
to you for final determination of the
certificate of appropriateness otherwise
the final determination of a certificate
of appropriateness is with Bap not you
because of all of these other things we
would offer that as a condition and what
happens if you just ask for more
time I'm sorry what happens if you talk
if you ask Capital I'm not in that legal
I I just know what I was assigned and
then and it's been you know that middle
December closing date yeah and I I get
it but the reality is I think for a
project this important I think we're you
know we cut a lot of months out by doing
one you know Workshop but I still think
that a couple more meetings may be
needed between us and Bap to get this
where everyone feels like they love it
and I and that's where we want to be we
want to love it um I don't think we want
to send a compromised
building to beap and then worry that it
gets approved like that and then we have
no power to try to fix any of the things
that we think are still kind of broken
on it
so um so let me let me ask this is the
applicant willing
to um specifically also a agree with the
board and ask Bap to send it back
correct yes yeah I think with if the
applicant is asking for that and you're
recommending
it they could say no um there's always a
risk as a Architectural Review the sixth
floor is a critical aspect of the design
and if Bap does not approve that they'll
have to come back if the Project's still
viable with an alternate design which we
will have to review
so for me wasting time rushing through
design with the Bap decision of that
sixth floor or not will is is a pretty
significant impact so that's my only
reason tonight I would recommend we're
being okay with moving it Forward into
Bap but I would adamant ask that it
comes back and I would not agree if it
did not come back well we can agree to
that condition of bringing it back so
that's not a that's not a
concern is that legal
oh request is legal that that it is
legal that you impose a condition it is
absolutely legal that you impose a
condition that it come back it's
specifically laid out in the code I
thought we weren't allowed to do that we
that you do that but the code was
amended to allow you they you still
can't find them but the code was amended
to allow you to request that as part of
your your as long as long as it's
mandatory then it's not mandatory no I
mean that you know if we if we place
that condition on the recommendation and
the applicant consents and the applicant
consense then it has to come back VAP
could not say forget it it could say
forget it why but if we make it because
the jurisdiction is
theirs building for the certificate of
appropriateness which gets them to
building permit eventually which gets
them to building permit the the
jurisdiction is always there so they
have to voluntarily Give It Up to send
it back to you but I I mean so there's
there is some risk Jo me so I'll I'll
just say that in the past if you don't
mind Madame chairman yes go ahead um we
have had several projects come through
ARB that were so important because there
was a demolition involved or it was a u
a Main Street project or a North Cassidy
project where we really kind of held our
ground to say for everybody's sake this
needs to come back here um and you know
I can't imagine that a project of this
importance is going to be that you're
going to have the rugs swep pulled out
from under you by the seller I just
can't imagine that happening but this
project to me is too important to play
games with conditions and remanding uh
at this point I just I I don't see this
is going to be this building is going to
be here forever what what I can tell you
sitting as the presenter here is that I
feel confident I'm not going to get
approval on Bap meeting on the 30th yeah
so which would force me to bring it back
to you as part of the process so I I can
tell you that you know we'll come back I
mean I don't know what if you need me to
poke my finger in sign and blood or
whatever but that's well and I think too
our Workshop took months of work out of
our changes and things we made a lot of
progress in that and I think we would
all be willing to do another workshop
with you um but I think getting it to
beap so that they can look at what we've
done so far super
important no I I believe we need to have
the Bap on November 30th I guess so so
then secondarily then let's ass but I
don't know how to send it to them
without them being able to just approve
it and and go with it so just all you
can do is put a condition of remand
recommend a condition of remand to them
and with an applicant consenting to that
condition and requesting specifically
that they send it
back they have never um I'm the
applicant it you
know jurisdictionally they could say no
in bexy they have never said no on any
project that you've requested to go back
to my knowledge I'm uncomfortable being
pressured by a closing date for a
project of this
scope
so could could uh in the event that that
you know there's not a legal way to
satisfy your concerns
um can we just go ahead and schedule not
a workshop but the next uh ARB meeting
for the week after a special ARB public
even evening public meeting correct
when December first week of December
yeah so we would be looking at uh
December 7th is the first Thursday
that's always the Christmas party so no
because we we would normally be does it
have to be on a Thursday it doesn't we
would normally be the
14 we don't have a December meeting so
does anyone have these Chambers on
December
7th I doubt it but I can check
Tom okay can we tentatively set it a
special meeting for December 7
are you saying you can't hear
me
you okay let's
the um sunnd down Sund down the seventh
I don't know who has these Chambers um
what about
the yeah okay so maybe let's say the 6th
okay Wednesday the
6th yeah and we we will have to figure
out with the city and we will post it on
the website as to when but we will
search for a an evening in there that we
can have these Chambers in that first
week of December um to try to have a
special meeting on just this project
thank you can I can I
just I have no interest in pushing this
through quickly I I don't care if they
have to go back to Capital and ass I'm
in it for a good building but I am very
nervous about us going through more and
more design without getting a read from
Bap whether but it sounds like if we
send it to beap we could lose control so
I don't know those are the rules and I
think that this board is is reacting to
them the way that they are so um
um and unless if I don't know can a beap
member come to our meetings and talk to
us about I I don't know what we can do
without just turning losing all control
again if this if the if the closing
happens in
February you know because we you have a
BAP meeting after our re our next review
is capital walking away and why should
we feel the pressure of that in order to
get the right building
built
that's the way I see it I'm sorry but
this building's going to be here forever
and there's a month or two in in in the
coming weeks or you know that doesn't
make any sense there's there's all this
there's all this time getting bunched up
right now but this but the but the
decisions we make are going to be for a
lifetime I understand your concern but I
I you know from my perspective I don't
feel like we're far off on what you've
asked for tonight and E even with that
and mind I I I believe we'll be able to
hit The Sweet Spot in the next meeting
sure I I I just can't we can't guarantee
that I'm sure yeah if he asks for a vote
and we say no he can still go to Bap
correct right it just yes it goes to
beap goes to Bap either way but then he
but then our recommendation to having it
come back is not on there right and then
he has to start all over with the whole
new project right no he does not no he
just goes up with exactly what you if
you ask for a vote and we say no he
still goes to Bap yep and they'll know
that we said no and that could influence
them but they still have all about but
Karen goes to those meetings and so she
would tell them what we like and what we
don't like she would if you made a
recommendation for remen too but even if
we even if we send it to them with a no
that we're not recommending it as is
they can still turn it around and say
yes to it and and approve it so that's
my point yeah so I don't know okay I
think what what Mr Scott is trying to
say is is the applicant you can you
can't table it they would have to choose
to table it if they don't table it you
have to make a recommendation or it goes
up with Noe recommendation it moves on
the control of whether it stays here or
not ultimately is the decision of the
applicant because if it is if it is
original Bap jurisdiction they get to
decide whether to stay or not I think Mr
Scott's point is if they're really
desperate on their timelines they could
refuse to table go up with a
recommendation in
opposition and you know at Bap ask for
them to remand it
but he's saying if you worried about
losing control you can lose control
regardless either way either way right
or you could make a recommendation that
it just be remanded back to you and it
moves forward or the applicant I think
we want to work with you is so remanding
it's the right thing in my mind to do to
be able to continue the process and I
think
think the right thing to do see if you
can extend
your I think I'm just sitting here there
just a lot of conversation going around
trying to accommodate this and
everything I feel like our backs the
wall with bit and I don't I read the
bill I don't think it's it's fair to the
community and I don't think it's fair to
building and PR a big project and all
we're trying to do is get it done the
right way and we rush
because you know a lot of clients and
been here before and it's like okay we
can extend that
dat so I don't
know I guess what what is the the loss
in my request to remand it you know with
the knowledge that I'm coming back you
still have that
people it's not approve it's not
approval next week our last week got a
holiday with thing going on corre a lot
of people been starting on Thanksgiving
week
for
comp so it is ultimately your decision
to to ask for whatever you want and then
we vote appropriately
but I think you should just know that we
feel un we feel like the project still
isn't there right we I would love you to
be able to take it to VAP and know that
it must come back to us but that's not
the way we're set up so
um so but expl I guess the lack of
knowledge by tabling it what happens in
that
process if you table it it just gets put
on their next regular scheduled meeting
which is January
right yes yes
gets today and we did no special meeting
for you then we we would see you the
second Thursday in January and there's
what I'm hearing is there's no
possibility for a special meeting no we
are saying that we can do a special
meeting for you I just don't I can't say
what date that is because I don't know
when these Chambers are available I mean
I guess look I'm trying to work within
the confines of the rules so if if
there's a way to get it special meeting
there early December then I'm all for
that and we can look at a date now and
I'll check the room first thing in the
morning yeah so um Wednesday December 6
works for
me I know Keith says right and I don't
know are city council are those meetings
on
Tuesday
um I don't you might know is something
else in here on
Thursday that's
awesome yeah they could you could meet
no there's nothing but then knowing that
that's the first night of Hanukkah I
know that that messes people up too so
um what can we do earlier in a
day well they I don't know honestly
we've never had a meeting earlier in the
day that wasn't a workshop but how about
if we talk to the city and figure out
somewhere in that week and then we will
post it on the on the website so that
everyone has enough warning to yeah very
very well I mean as long as the
neighbors get notified I mean I don't
want anything that's you know
problematic yep we can do that yeah okay
so we'll look at that first week of
December and see what we can do that
will accommodate you I'd like to keep
these same board members coming back and
not Madam CH I'd also like to keep in in
our in our possibilities November 26 20
27th 28 29th to look at too it's three
weeks away giving the architect some
that's a good point but it's also prior
to the next Bap meeting yeah no we can
make that
work and it needs to be so and so also
Thursday the 30th so what's in here on
Thursday Thursday the 30th is Bap is Bap
so that's what Mr Scott was saying you
could meet that week Monday Tuesday or
Wednesday before the Bap meeting it's
three weeks away but it's after
Thanksgiving yeah so I could do the 28th
or the 29th I could do the 29th
29th what about Wednesday the
29th I'm also free okay 29th okay we're
gonna shoot for the 29th I appreciate
your consideration thank
you should we table it to a date
certain yeah pending the room being
available if if the applicant is
requesting a taing yeah request for to
be tabled to a date certain November
29th correct November yeah okay we will
still put that on the website too just
so that anyone who's not here can see it
and great um and it will start at six
o'clock like and I'll I'll get on that
first thing in the morning confirming
that this room is available and posting
it on the front page on our website okay
and that will be public notice as well
that special session I'm gonna public it
tomorrow yes do we need to
vote for it to be tabled okay so you're
requesting that it be tabled to that to
November 29th at 2023 is that correct
correct at six o'clock okay is there a
board member that will make a motion so
moved
higher okay in the rooll Mr H yes Mr
Scott yes Mr Hall yes Mr steel
yes and Madam Tony yes okay thank you we
will see you at that special meeting if
the chambers are available if they
aren't I will will be in touch or Karen
will be in touch right away okay thank
you
okay that was a good
dat great
idea I'm gonna let the room settle down
here for a second because we're ready to
go to new business didn't feel like you
were going
for I'm not in a position to say yeah
thank you
was a good
solution okay our next application
number ARB
23-36 the address is 217 North sandwood
the applicant is Anthony
Pina the owner is Kate palman and
Patricio Andre sorry if I just boted
your name the applicant is seeking
architecture review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a new
front porch a three Season room and a
slate roof modification
22 if the applicant is here please come
forward and we will swear you in I'm the
representative I have to pay for I
turned it all in
so no they're
off yes ma'am wonderful okay what's your
name sir I'm Gerard Bon I'm
representative of the customer and the
company stus construction for 217 North
Stanwood so awesome thank you no problem
um can you Karen do you want to give us
just a quick background and I'm sorry I
actually called somebody else about this
today Anthony probably Anthony's the
owner of the company I'm his project
manager and I actually live here in
Bexley also usually I'd like to talk to
everybody before the meeting so you know
what to expect yeah I I came and I
talked to Kathy Rose and I talked to a
few people along the way I didn't I
didn't know surprises but I I mean maybe
for you a little bit this was all a
surprise I wasn't expecting this tonight
but here what I
um um the project I mean I think overall
I think it's I understand the intent and
and it is good okay um the front porch I
think is almost there I did do in my
staff report I think it would really be
great if you
could um sorry I'm looking for my staff
report out of sorts
now
change the pitch of the um the entrance
Portico to better match the pitches of
the existing roofs I think it can be
done pretty easily so um I did it in a
little green lines so we did do that
originally um part of the reason that we
extended it the way that we did extend
it to the sides uh was for the
porch also for the reveal at the top um
they have a keystone above their front
door that they are really fond of and
they did not want to hide that or cover
that up so um to try and open that up
and make it more viewable after we did
our first set of renderings and plans
with the engineer the customer asked if
we could widen that a little bit because
originally we did match the exact pitch
so um absolutely happy to hear your
recommendations and if we need to bring
it back we can but that's the reason
that we ended up there was I figured
there was something like that I was
thinking it was the porch so which is
why I also kind of put on there maybe
you just do a a little cover with with
some brackets that are typical of you
know tutor architectur sure um in terms
so I think that's all you know workable
okay in terms of the back um I I'm don't
think the drawings are very clear how
the arbor the trellis connects okay just
kind of drawn so we need to have a
better understanding of how it connects
okay also I really question the window
choices for the two sides the tiny the
little transoms sure I'm sure there's
something going on in the inside but
there wasn't a plan that was clear
enough to understand what is going on in
the inside so I can explain those are my
comments but um absolutely so the the
customer kind of made the decision on
making the windows on the two sides
smaller because of the sun exposure uh
and the way that they use the room and
when they use the room and they felt
like those big Windows especially
because it's more of a three seasons
room it really heated the room up quite
a bit and so they were hoping to use
smaller windows on those two sides to
minimize the amount of that sunlight
that they're getting um so that that is
why they moved to the smaller Windows uh
on those two sides uh on on both of
those there um other than that we
certainly can we can re-evaluate that
and and use m Windows that match the
rest of it but that was kind of at their
request is is why we went I need to go
through board members so it's okay um
who who wants to go
first Mr Scott do you want to go first
sure thank you I'll take this one
first uh so front elevation first
please uh I think the the that CAD
drawing is perfect uh the fact that your
roof is intersecting the the second
floor extension can't can't can't accept
that I think that roof has to to either
engage or Encompass that in some way I
think that protruding through that roof
for me at that front is kind of a really
strange detail I'm not sure why it's in
that coming through there because the
the idea is it doesn't actually protrude
down you're cut it's getting cut off but
is going to get cut off there and then
all flashed in around that roof there it
okay so that's good so I can I can have
the the AR just need change it's on
record that's fine it's not a huge deal
I do feel it it is a little large and I
don't think making a little thinner and
a little little shorter is going to hide
your Keystone um I get that they want to
kind of maximize the size of the POR so
I'm not saying it has to significantly
reduce but uh it does feel just a little
large I think in in my comments to
staff this this week is it's really the
rear the rear and the level of um
overall quality I get those existing
structures and things but even in the
photos which are a little blurry the
details I think are just aren't being
represented in the drawings well um so I
think it's it's you're doing actually
doing yourself a little disservice in
the drawing I thought we so we had
submitted some actual additional
renderings as well um through the
website I'm not seeing those come up
here um with the trellis I did I see
that um but again I think that there's
there's really the you have the white
window frames over the toward the end of
the the photos
no see there's D and was in that photo
there there's some detail on that well
there is there's actual renderings too
have them in here I just
okay at the end of
the it was it very first first thing in
the
list there it is there you
go so you know how
this it's an existing structure so I get
it uh so I'm trying to inter it but I
would love to see a little bit more
detail on this this extension it just
feels like it's a kind of a shed tacked
on the back of the building okay um so
just maybe it's a little bit more trim
or a little bit more details at the at
the kind of shed line and just to kind
of clean that up I don't have a problem
with the the change of the windows I
more have a problem with the white
windows and the dark dark facade but
they actually already exist that way so
this I'm not changing the design I'm
basically taking what they have there
and just kind of making it more lievable
for them that back door currently isn't
closed in so they're liking they want to
close that all in with that room uh and
just make it a more usable space all the
way around for for them so I don't
disagree with the styling of it I think
someone at some point thought it matched
the the tutor on the front to go with
the brown and the white um and and so we
just stayed with the existing um sure
and I I get it and I I understand that
so um and I think how the trellis
interacts with the building it looks
like there's just kind of a a ledger
that this thing's getting applied um is
that that's the ex is that the rendering
representing the existing or that's a
change that's a it is gonna it is going
to change so it is existing there he
went through the process originally with
you guys and had and did this a couple
years ago and with this new change he's
actually going to have to take it down
because we're moving the building
towards it um and because we're now
closing in that back door to the left
there as well so basically we're going
to be taking those two front posts that
are closest to the house away and then
removing and spreading that the three of
them across the front at the at the back
of the property there and then the the
house side will all tie in on the ledger
board um up against St so you know
overall I think the the concept's fine I
get the what they're trying to do you
know it's not in a prominent position
and you're just enclosing kind of kind
of a dark Cove anyway correct to me it's
going to be in the details of the column
bases uh how those sit on the concrete
um the connections of the trellis to the
post and having a little bit of
architecture in that and not just sure
to me that will help dress up that whole
patio okay
um I do believe so I didn't have a
chance and I know this was frowned upon
earlier today I do have some some
updated engineering drawings that I
brought with me this evening that I got
in my possession this evening um but I I
didn't have a chance to email them over
so I do have physical copies and I
planned on uploading those tomorrow um
but I do have anyone would like copy of
them here they do address that a little
bit in in past I mean unless it's
overwriting something that the board
wants to see a lot of times we will
those details and things if we're
comfortable with the overall design you
can work with staff to kind of get
through those if she's not comfortable
to come back to us but Absolutely I'll
let them explain that further but sure
those are my main comments is just
there's a lot in the drawings there's
not a lot of details your your column
and your the extension of the trellis
and things like that there's just things
that nuances and how and there's design
guidelines that we have issued you've
seen that yeah and I yeah so there's
some just recommendations on like how
columns sit with capitals and EES and
and you know those if you look at that
and follow some of those details this
it'll really kind of blend into the
style of this house as well as
neighborhood okay I'll follow up with
the architect see if he can tweak those
a little bit for
us Mr H
higher just paint it
black I mean I think it goes away I mean
the the the Striking thing about the
renderings and what we're seeing here is
that it's just like clear coated you
know pressur treated lumber but if you
paint it it's going to go away and I I
just I don't I don't think the detail I
mean I I agree with Mr Scott that there
could be more refinement there but just
those renderings aren't doing it any
good by showing it just as clear coated
pressure treated wood um my my concern
is still on the I'm still trying to
figure out how you do this front canopy
this house has a lot of character the uh
Eaves um uh particularly you know at the
tutor um you know stucco and Timber
portion there's a particular detail that
which I'm not seeing in Juliet's
drawings and Juliet bulock did these
drawings I'm sorry uh J did did Juliet
bulock do do the drawings for you Joel
Burke okay never mind bur did dra sorry
Julie I I uh Mis misspoke um but I I
just don't see how this I don't see how
this works um if you're going this if if
this front porch is going to be commen
answer it with the details of the
house uh there needs to be more
sensitivity to the peers to the way that
the eve sweeps you know or the The Rake
comes and sweeps down um I think the
little trust thing that you're doing is
it's just not of the same level as the
rest of the house to be honest and then
I don't know how you miss that you know
what Mr Scott was referring to the
second floor coming out how do you miss
that you actually don't miss it so it's
going to get trimmed off there is what's
going to happen there there's it's kind
of it's it's dead space in the house up
there um that's between a bedroom and a
bathroom there's nothing in that area so
we can cut it out and take the roof line
right across it which to me I mean
that's where all the character is on
this elevation and you're just going to
cut it off that doesn't make sense to me
trying to accommodate the size of the
patio that they wanted they they it was
originally smaller um the customer
wanted it a little bit larger the client
did a little larger because they with
everyone having groceries delivered and
everything at this point there was no
room for anyone to come up on their
front porch or put anything on the front
porch do you know if the the the
architect considered it an option of
Shifting the porch off center of the
door to allow that architectural detail
of that to the right we we it was
discussed briefly the the customer
wasn't really thrilled with that idea
but obviously after we get some feedback
today um from the board um we can
probably shift them more in those
directions to make this work you know
for every it may change the the shape of
the you know may change the way the roof
but I I how how much of the how much
porch do they want because if they're
looking to put chairs out there and a
little table or something is that what
they're looking to do no no sir really
more so than anything it's just like so
when they have their groceries delivered
or like when family comes and obviously
we have snow and rain here quite a bit
and so they just want people to be able
to stand under P you know under the
cover while they're waiting there at the
front door as well as be able to have
packages delivered and things and be
Undercover on that front door so they're
hoping for like a 10 by6 it was like
that's where we ended up after we kind
of laid it all out with them originally
it was much smaller originally it was
actually like a five by4 but that just
didn't give them the coverage that they
were hoping for so we tried to expand it
a little bit to give more of the
coverage they're hoping for I I really
just think this is the wrong solution
even you know to you could get coverage
and uh you can do things asymmetrically
that would work I was even thinking that
you might make it more elongated over
the window to the left or something you
know create a real porch but if they're
not looking for that there's got to be
another solution instead of doing a
Gable to me it just doesn't work because
you're you're taking away from the the
the character of the front of the
building by cutting off that that
projected Gable or yeah the Gable
there's got there's there has to be
another way to approach Ro
this okay um so originally again we we
stayed with the same you know slope of
the existing roof and we tried to match
that detail at the top we even had a
stucco detail at the top but again that
kind of started to cover up that
Keystone and that light that they had
and that's why doing that in your
rendering I mean you've got so much
space in that rendering above that
Keystone and that is that's the that's
the second rendering because we did move
it up and and that was again at the
customer request um so we can work on
bringing that back down and and adding
that element back in uh or if we're
recommending we go a completely
different different direction you kept
the peak where you have it yes sir and
you change the slope like this then your
porch gets skinnier correct you already
have the depth that you want yeah and
that's that's the original design was
much closer to what you're describing
there and and they they they asked us to
bring it out wider but it's sounding
like we're going to have to bring it
back in and and that just may be what it
is I would I would I always shoot for
the stars for my customers but I'll
bring it back to Earth Here appreciate
that I just think that the other the
other option would be to
somehow I'm just I just I there's got to
be a way to instead of doing a Gable
that you know maybe it's it's a shed but
it's resting on brackets of some
kind I mean six feet is a long it's a
long candle lever I just this is a tough
one
yeah you don't get a whole lot of space
between the edge of that house and and
the door there either is the other issue
that you run into yeah quickly it's
weird I I got trapped I mean you know
I'm trying to make the design work as
best because I I absolutely understand I
didn't they also don't want to take away
from the character they love the front
of the house but they they just wanted
to add and what you'll see you know if
you go down stwood a lot of them have
small fabric awnings and it's just not
the look that they're going for and it
doesn't offer them right coverage look
there's a ton of houses especially in my
neighborhood where you have these it's
it's basically a the house is a is a
cube and then they decided they were
going to put this really steep Gable
thing at their front entry off center
and it just looks like it was stuck on
there very familiar yeah and and so is
that character or is it just does it
look wrong and what I'm afraid is that
what you're doing here is not going to
feel like character it's going to feel
like it's wrong sure the ch also is
going to be that the detail around the
door that stonework typically isn't
found under a porch it it's because it's
it's a flat facade and they articulated
that entry with that stonework to call
out that entry you typically don't see
porches that work well I mean yeah we're
trying to can and I think this is the
open porch is is okay
but why why not do
just that's why I said it would been
appro if they had looked at that design
to see if that was an option because I
think do a flat that has brackets that
support it you know know and no columns
oh no columns well I'd like I'd like to
hear from yeah sorry that's an option
I'm stuck no I would because it
deemphasizes the whole portion it
provides cover but it doesn't compete
with the main there's there's two one
main feature on the this elevation it's
that gabled
roof stucko okay I'll
stop anything else Mr hire
no sorry thank you thank you for your
time Mr Hall
[Laughter]
just listening and trying
to I'm not I'm not really bu
cutting over
off I
don't the front door with stove going
around it
theed it's it's right there there's
you're getting into that corner no
matter
what
sure and you
know the details really mess really FY
really fast if there's not some study
really put into
this I
AG
okay Mr
Steel
you're not getting much coverage to that
side of the door if you're if we have to
stay out of that corner completely then
then there's probably not much of an
option for them to get the coverage that
they're after but we but you
know sorry
I'm I mean couldn't couldn't you
just do something up here
you know that was Cal levered you want
the protection but the extension is the
problem they want to go six feet out
that's that's the issue that we've run
into with with everything is is ah but
you could do you could do brackets that
come back like Timbers that come back
down
yeah we were worried that that started
to also get into a different design than
the rest of the house when you get into
that because that there's I mean you
have it here you've got it here it would
be at a different angle but I I I think
I think going in the other direction but
it's the same language I think there's
some Merit there for sure it's
definitely worth you know I'm happy to
explore that option it would just be
asymmetrical because you'd have a
bracket here you'd have a bracket here
and then potentially you could just do a
third you know and have it
asymmetrical right just offset to the
home which and and that's fine I think
your vision I think you're right there
uh again originally the vision we were
trying to work with the customer to what
there was I understand but I just think
the interesting aspect of that is it
becomes an element of the stuck the
Gable piece it would it be an extension
of that right which is an interesting
yeah anomaly where it's different it's
Unique but it becomes something that
plays with that object and is more of
that than it is anything else to the
house it's also making it more
three-dimensional because everything
here is flat yes right and you bring the
brackets out in the other direction all
of a sudden you've got more character
and you really work those brackets and
it's Unique it was it's not something
that you typically
I think you're you're the designer I I
am a general contractor
okay tell your take no design credit
tell your tell your designer that I
think there's potential there for that
sure I will they can work on that I'll
absolutely take that note back and we
can work that
out okay um are you done
here and where the brackets paint the
whole thing black that's
easy that's an easy sale
yeah a easy I have a question about the
back yes ma'am right now you have those
big windows on all sides of the porch
yes ma'am so why are you getting rid of
them like and putting in tiny windows so
on that what they're gonna do is they're
actually going to remove I'm sorry
they're going to remove the two windows
from the the side of the house and move
those to the front wall because we're
making that wall longer now and the sun
exposure from those two windows plays
issues with them from the way they have
that room set up uh with sunlight in
that room but what it does is it makes
that read as a
porch rather than an odd building that
was stuck on the back of their house so
all of those windows on that corner to
me make it read much better than doing
the like a clear story window up there
so okay um I don't know why you would
take that out I mean you could just do
more windows like that on the side and
pull Shades down like you do now to
control the sun AB absolutely that looks
10 times better to me than what you're
drawing of pulling those out and putting
in the the small clear story windows
that match nothing else on the house
that that and that was the original
design again that was a a customer
request to switch but I I absolutely
understand the feedback on the aesthetic
and the way it looks and I think that I
can go back to the customer with that
and that's not going to be that is not a
hinge point for them it was it was a
hope but I think you're absolutely right
we can still utilize those windows or
that size of a window and you Shades
they they were just going to go to a
smaller non-movable window um yeah even
if the bottom panel of them was solid
you know that it wasn't glass like it it
would it's it just makes it read like a
porch and it's much better to me the way
that it is than what you're changing it
too absolutely not a problem okay so um
between the front porch and the and the
back I think we need to hear it again so
um if it's okay we will ask for you to
ask for it to be tabled to our next
meeting which would be uh January the 2
Thursday in January I don't get a
special meeting come
on I feel like I'm just a special is
everybody else here
today we could do two that night no that
is that is it would be January 11th
January 11th yes ma'am okay does that
sound okay that works for me I we can do
two in one night if you'll be the second
one after that meeting I I think I'll
wait till it's about the same anyways I
think so yeah we still be here yeah I I
I sensed that I told my wife I would
maybe be home for breakfast tomorrow so
yeah and see you're gonna make it now I
I I live right here so it won't be bad
no okay so uh is there a board member
that will ask we find no we don't find
no he's asking table yeah sorry yeah is
there a board member that will ask or
request a
table
and we will call the role Mr hire yes Mr
Scott
yes Mr Hall yes Mr steel yes and Madam
Tony yes okay thank you so much we'll
see you back here in
January
okay our last application for the
evening is application
ARB
d37 the address is 2010 East Broad
Street the applicant is Brent Foley the
owner is the Catholic dases of Columbus
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for expansions to the
old gym and to add two
stories and a variance from the height
limit to allow the addition to match the
height of the existing
building um I personally think that's a
little confusing so we're gonna ask
Karen
to explain a little further yes and
we'll we'll swear you in also do you
swear to tell the truth when you
testimon tonight I
do yeah it is a little confusing because
um there's actually a corresponding beap
part of this where we are GNA have this
as a recommendation to beap um the
design is pretty straightforward um it
it's I think you've seen hints of it in
the master plan right yeah we actually
got approval that's what I thought over
a year ago okay remember for the first
we're we're actually coming back with
the changes today the problem is that it
it is right on the border of the height
that was requested to go back to Bap so
in
and we always air on the side of caution
so I'm going to read verbatim Cathy's
zoning comments and then I can give my
comments about the architecture but um
this the St Char master plan was
approved in 2021 with the conditions
related to design and masing as followed
the modifications design materials will
be in substantial conformance with the
renderings and PLS submitted at the
board of zoning and planning which are
right here included here although that
is very different than what and I'm glad
I we all
are um um and less modified in Cor in
collaboration with airb and staff so
that's one issue and this is a good
overhead view this aerial that shows the
construction site um all everything in
the black roof is the old gym which
that's where the addition will be on top
of both of those roofs just just the one
this one okay yeah sorry um the
application is the applicant seeking
design review and recommendation to
Bap um as there is a variance from
Bexley code 1254 point10 which limits
the maximum height to three stories or
45 ft to modify and build on the
existing gym footprint and allow the
addition to match the height of the
existing structure south of the old gym
which has an overall height of 49 feet
um this design of the new edition seems
clear in its form placement and program
the application will have the applicant
will have an opportunity at the meeting
to discuss and explain the materials
differences between the rendering and
the elevation cornice arches details Etc
uh I just wanted to read that out loud
because it was not what was on the
agenda but it was on the notice so we're
good um but I just want to make sure
everybody understands this is going to
be that
architecture um I have no problem with
it I do think we need to have some
clarification on some of the renderings
that show it um without the cornice
arches we talked about this already
today so I will pass it on to you to
fill in the gaps there and the board to
make comments and doesn't look like we
have anybody
else the quote of the evening is there's
a month or two in the coming weeks Mr
hire I think that
I think we've had a month or two in this
meeting tonight only amount of work for
the
Architects two months of work in two
weeks so glad to be back in front of you
guys I think we're all a little slap
happy at this point um just just to
clarify because um we did get approval
for this
project well I think it was the summer
of last last summer um and then we had
come back because we made a little uh oh
with the with some things on the other
project which we corrected because of
that o we actually submitted this
application because there are some
changes from what was submitted and
approved back then that are on the
application now so I just want to make
sure that's all clear and in the record
um I was going to take you guys through
the site plan I don't think you need
that we we we guys know this project
well enough um maybe we just talk here
first so what is
missing this this application or this
rendering you remember we produced
specifically when we were looking at
this here uh and we had given the
renderer you know the information we had
approved on this building in the
background but we really weren't paying
attention too much to that when he did
when he did the rendering to be quite
Frank and so that why that's why the
details of this don't quite match what's
in the elevations so what is int
intended is actually what's in the
elevations which do match the original
application which have the brick Arch um
around the top of the building yeah I'm
sorry I'm a little tired
there we go yeah yeah so you can see
this this detail that's here around the
building so if you can go to the floor
plans real quick um Karen I want to say
cath that wasn't right um I wanted to
walk quickly through the changes if you
go back uh maybe to this the first floor
first W well you can start here actually
so two changes that you can note on this
level from what was approved Last Summer
the stair that is here it actually
extended down pretty far down here
previously and we had a a uh kind of a
urea moment like why are we making this
giant stair when we create a corridor to
get back there and so we change the size
of the stair uh just to be what's needed
for the stair itself and then we created
this in this inset here that was not in
there previously originally it was just
around the perimeter there and so that's
one change that also reflected on the
elevations then if you go back to
the one more maybe two more there you go
no no sorry we were there so if you also
recall before we were we were achieving
the ramp in here and I think it was um
board member Scott who mentioned that we
had a curved ramp and asked how that was
goingon to work and all those things if
you remember that comment yeah uh we
were able to incorporate the ramp into
the interior of the building here now
and so now we have a very modest
entrance here which we think is actually
going to be a lot more appropriate and
not uh mess with the architecture there
so that's the three things that's
actually changed um since the last time
we're here and uh I think we got the
clarification on the the Brick arches uh
just a note that last Friday the bishop
did announce publicly that St Charles
has the approval move forward with this
project so we are excited that this is
becoming reality so with that I'll
answer any
questions Okay who wants to go first I
will Mr Scott I love the new
ramp I can see myself walking on that
comfortably
uh or I would have loved you seen the
curve the circular ramp that would have
that would have been amazing uh actually
I think it's I think the the elevation
and really for me it's the elevations I
have no problem with the height um you
know this building is really complex
this masses towards the back uh at least
off the street you know I don't I don't
have any problem with that
recommendation um I love to see that you
guys are doing the brick arches I think
that's appropriate it's great uh my only
real comment is the large kind of glass
window which I think is new right no
that's that's that was there in that is
existing yeah what you had us do last
time this actually Casey was
representing us this time because I was
out of state for funeral we did a little
uh these two sections here and here
where you guys asked us to move that off
the face of the building so that there's
a little bit of a reveal for this
section and in fact we also raised the
glass because originally it only came up
this high and I think that was Mr 's
comment to take the glass all the way up
to the arch am I getting that right bill
so yeah please I know I was part of that
but I didn't direct we we wanted we
wanted the um architecture
to uh the the the stonework that is
around these two windows and these two
windows we wanted it to feel like it was
natural right that you have a you have a
return here obviously at the outside of
the building and then you have another
little return here and then everything
in between was going to be glass however
there is a stud wall that is right here
so we can't take the glass all the way
to the edge that's understandable so but
you still have the return here which is
I think uh important it would have been
nice to get that all the way over but I
don't think that's from my perspective
it's not a big
deal
okay that's all I had thank you so um I
I just think that we need to have
clarification
on what's going what's really going on
here and you know the diagram that shows
that we're going to match what's on the
existing building by Krauss is to me
it's not enough I need to see what this
is actually going to look like yeah and
actually the way you're showing it here
it looks like it's going to be cast
stone or stone um which honestly I think
would be better than doing it in trying
to do it in Brick because I just think
it's going to
agrees with you that's why I'm pointing
to Cas it's gonna stand out too much if
you try to do it in Brick we're very
happy to go to castone we we'll make
that change banding or all of it well
you're still going to have the detail
and the shadow lines and the Arches and
all that but it will be in castone all
of it all of it okay um and then it
lines up with what's on the other
buildings but you should also not
project it and I think this is just a
revvit thing but probably yeah um also
the coursing is this aerstone that
you're using for your veneer uh we were
looking at aircraft as a product yeah
Stone sheets or grid works as the three
product yeah but can you get the
aircraft can you get the um can you get
the coursing to actually work with oh
sure yeah we can work through that those
details yeah and then what do you do for
the head shouldn't you have an actual
arched piece of AR a discussion we had
as well and we landed on trying it we
landed on this and in in the end um we
could explore that you know so that has
more like a a true Arch is what you're
saying Bill if I'm well I'm just afraid
that this is these windows are going to
look like they were just simply
punctured through an existing solid wall
instead of you know letting the Aeros
craft you know work to create character
on that on that surround it doesn't have
to be much it could be you know a a
casing um but something that helps to
simple casing just around the top there
or you run it all the all the way around
run it all the way up and down that's
that's a pretty common detail and it
could be thin it could just yeah it
could be six seven inches or something
little bit that's an easy solution and
it's and it cleans it up too and then
you have a sill right and you know the
casing comes down and sits on the sill
because I just think this looks and and
then the coursing should still do what
you know we're talking about that you
should equalize this so that the
coursing ends at the spring point and
then continues up you've already got a
cut off piece of stone up here anyway so
that that is going to be more St Charles
character because Krauss was was a
fanatic about all of his
arches and his you know the details that
were that work with that yep and you
know from from doing the convocation
center
that brick work with you know when you
do bricks for arches you have to have
everything mapped out and everything
absolutely correct here you're not
constrained by that but you want to make
it look like it was all meant to be be I
just think this is a Revit thing and you
know this just needs to be refined more
that's all
um so I'd like to see those details so
cast stone coping Stone casings and then
coursing at the springpoint lineup got
it yeah so that it all looks settled and
um more refined that's all those are my
only comments I I have no issue with the
size um the interior and the entryways
looks great so that's all I
have Mr Hall my
only
joint it'll be a lot easier for our
contractor will be happy too with
that
um so they're much more um making them
up yeah um informed about how You' got
to where you are so I'm gonna lean on
them a little bit for that too thank
you and after following these guys I
have nothing to add I think it's great
so those three clarifications just to
make sure I'm clear the class cing wait
say it
again the the the top goes to Cast Stone
coping or and the whole coping becomes a
cast stone rather than brick same
detailing the we do a stone casing in
sill around the windows and then we do
we line up the coursing so that the the
stone is at the spring point of the arch
and then will your big window Mion
adjust to the C to the likely and I
don't know why that one's not H and and
and a little bit more attention to the
bottom of the big window it seems like
there's a little sliver yeah I just
think it's a little bit it just feels
like it was rectangle of put in there
might be again modeling eror yeah no
doubt yeah I get
it what is nice is that is right up
against that multipurpose if you
remember the building there's a whole
another there was a black mass that roof
is right there and so you actually never
will see most of that from any yeah
yeah okay so findings of fact are
basically what you just read have
them are we asking for it to come back
or is
this I I think this is these are details
that um the design consultant will share
with us I I can if you send me the
details I'll just send you guys an email
perfect works for
us that yes recommendation to be app
okay so that's what you're asking for as
a recommendation to beap yep okay and we
understand the findings of fact are the
started as three but really ended up I
think four different things that you
yeah I got them all out okay is there a
board member that will make a motion so
moved
Scott a second
higher all right Mr Scott yes Mr hire
yes Hall yes Mr steel yes ad ton yes
thank you you're approved thank you for
your patience you were the only one
[Laughter]
tonight we
win Catherine good to see you we are a
journey this a virtue