and
try something okay hey Ellen good to see
you it is snippy out there's your back
improve
testing the
holidays
oh it's just down October to check here
because you had a nice than oh good how
was your Thanksgiving we got good
attendance now for Thanksgiving which
got good for the BL
la
toar
is my B
ready
hold maybe I'll have to I if you want to
hold it to warm your
hands yeah whatever mean procedures
before
what right right okay is everybody ready
okay all right Natalie we're ready we're
ready to go live okay tell me when
okay here I'd like to call the special
meeting the Bexley tree and public
gardens commission to order and call the
role Mary mcmun here Susan quinten's
chair here Sheila strob here Dave
Wakeman Celeste Williams here Jim Wilson
Vice
chair here here we have a
quorum uh Ellen Bowen EX officio here
Elena Andrews staff consultant here
Spencer Martin for Grant Archer Parks
Parks arborist okay thank you um lauran
fibble uh Ben Kesler Monette Freelander
staff consultant here here so Ellen
Ellena didn't I call you I I thought I
started with you because the A's were
first okay all right uh we are going to
verify that we have a quorum we have
five commission members out of seven
commission members
present and I'd like a motion to
dispense with the minutes of October and
November monthly meetings like to submit
vote that we
suspend with the pror meetings do I have
a second second second okay motion M
seconded that we dispense with the
minutes of October and November all
those in favor say I I all those oppose
same sign motion carries I would have
the minutes note that mayor Kesler is
now with us
so under um old business We are
continuing our discussion of 2200 East
Main Street it'll be the only item on
the agenda today we will not talk about
any pending topics or um other
applications that might come or have
come before the tree commission and with
that I will turn it over to my vice
chair Jim Wilson thank you so our
procedure today um will be um if the
applicant has MA made any changes to the
plan since we met previously we'll hear
those changes um uh the applicant can
have up to 10 minutes although if you've
been with before us before we love
concision um we then will uh allow
members of the public the first those
who want to testify an opposition uh we
would urge you to focus in on the
changes being presented today uh rather
than repeating what you've said before
but each of you will have up to three
minutes and I would ask that you sign in
on this the signin sheet uh before you
speak uh if there are any supporters of
the plan we'll it leave to them three
minutes and also if there are any
supporters would ask them to uh sign in
we will then hear again from the
applicant uh to respond to any comments
made uh then we will move to any
questions and hopefully commission
members will confine their questions to
the changes being made and then we can
move to where we were last time which is
beginning our discussion um just a
reminder to everyone um as you all know
our meetings are videotaped and
available on the becky. org website
within a few days and that website's
accessible by anyone as commission
members we do not comment or discuss
findings of other commissions nor do we
comment on subjects under review from
other City commissions as a commission
we will not be party to negative or
disparaging comments about City staff
elected officials appointed officials or
city Consultants or other commission
members uh comments presented today
should be Germaine to the subject at
hand um so please stay on topic and if
in our chair's view there's any
presentation that's trending towards
inflammatory or confrontational we'll
recess for 10 minutes regain our
composure and
Recon so
uh does the applicant want to u o give
us an overview or present anything
further on on the plan
sure um Ryan pis with the edge group 330
West Spring Street and Elena do you have
the um the file that you can pull up
maybe a site plan
yep second sheet I
think yeah see Ryan if you could get the
my just a little just a little closer
that'd be great thank
you and yeah well maybe it's mayor let's
get the information up
first
so a few of the changes and I'll just
flip through this really
quick along the western property line
the zovas we did we we reduced the
spacing from 45 feet down to 30 foot
spacing on Center added three trees in
doing that um another change we made is
over here on the east side we eliminated
the that small lawn strip along the back
of walk and we took the smaller seven
Sun tree and replaced that with
um
oh was that
lace Accolade Elms we replace those with
the Accolade Elm so a little broader
canopy to help with the canopy coverage
um we did add a plan enlargement deeper
into the set that shows three ball to
control vehicular traffic along the the
Brighton pedestrian
way um in the southwest corner we
actually added some brick pavers or
pavers of some sort not concrete um that
would lead out to the back of walk at
the Hudson 29 I just wanted to point out
because it was brought to our attention
that we did have pavers in the central
piece of the plaza and I think there's
an opportunity probably in that pock
Park as the design develops to get more
pavers in a more public uh
setting
um let's see
[Music]
here we added a few notes on the the
plant schedule and we we broke the plant
schedule out into two schedules so we
have the plant list for what's on this
site as well as what is on the separate
side or the the Bexley Square parcel um
with that we also added a little note on
the winter creeper to verify prior to
planting what that species really should
be um waiting on the city maybe to give
us a little Direction on what what that
standard should be down the
streetcape
um um can we flip I think it's probably
about eight slides back there's a shade
study we added a sheet to the shade
study so we had had this sheet to start
with which shows 10 12 10:00 a.m. 12 2:
p.m. 400 p.m. um and then four times
during the year and then we added the
second sheet to try to help clarify what
that really means and we used the
because most of the discussion has
focused on that Western Property Line in
that service drive that we're adding um
we added the 10 and the 12 and what it's
trying to show is is how you would read
where the shadow falls on the the ground
plane itself as compared to where it
might fall on the building itself so we
are using the Alexander as an example I
know there were several Alexander
residents that were interested in this
um so that 10 o'clock in the morning
obviously during the winter solstice
there's going to be Shadow a little bit
longer throughout the day by noon um the
first balcony would be covered in in a
shadow and then by the time you um get
to to April
10 o'clock it's about the same as what
it would be in December um two hours
later right so that's how you would read
that and then we have the site plan
right next to it to help reinforce what
we were what how you read the shadow
studies because that is at the ground
plane um not including any trees that we
would plant along that property
line
um on the tree replacement the re tree
replacement calculations did change
obviously we added three trees along the
western property line we also added the
larger canopy instead of the seven Sun
um and then we went back through and
adjusted all of the mature sizes to make
them 75% of what a a fact sheet might
say the mature spread would be on a tree
so um with the replacement it it came
back um and this is just the trees that
are on our site um and we did a little
results table over here that shows just
to replace the canopy that is there
today and I'm I just wanted to point out
we're not getting any credit for any of
the trees that along in the rideway
we're not including those we're not
including the blue trees in the Bexley
Square parking lot um just to replace
those we would need seven additional
trees and to get to the 40% canopy
coverage for our site we would need nine
and
then if if you went back to the the
sheet that has the plant schedule on it
we added a tree replacement some
language in there about if if we cannot
replace say the seven or nine trees I
think that's up up for discussion um in
the Bexley Square parking lot then we
could pay fee in L of at $750 a tree
based on a 50 foot diameter spread shade
tree elsewhere in the city but it would
go into a funds that that you all could
use I guess to um designate where that
would
go
Ryan where is that note located again on
if you go to the um back a few sheets
where the plant schedule and the the
maintenance maybe two more three
more right here so okay on this piece
right here we added this replacement
language
in that spells that out we also split it
out so that
um there are the first piece of that was
for the two trees where the curb cut is
located the second part of it was for
the seven or nine trees for the
replacement on the canopy so it's we
tried to separate that out so it could
be seven or I guess it could be nine
trees or it could be 11 that we're
talking about
um the Limestone versus the granite
curbing on the front edge I think I
mentioned last time we're okay with that
it's just the code calls out Granite so
that's why we had that on there we
missed um picking that change
up um
and I think I think that's it I um there
was some maintenance language that was
brought to our attention and I just
wanted to point out that in the Main
Street design guidelines it does say um
in there that we need to
keep oh let me just read it so I'm not
misquoted here um all such landscape
plantings and features shall be properly
maintained weeded and watered and any
loss of plant materials shall be
replaced in keeping with the approved
landscape plan so I I do think there's
some language that covers the city to
for code enforcement to come out and
make the owner replace it per the
approved plan so um we did not add any
language to that and with that I think
that's all the changes we've really
made thank
you um do we have any residents that
want to
speak hi
I'm Kathy
Schick and I happen to
live in that lower unit that Brian Ryan
said would get no
s um can I ask why the building all of a
sudden is going to be 30 feet away from
us instead of 45 ft like it was all
along you you can offer your comments
Commission members can choose to ask the
applicants any questions that are raised
by well to me
um who I have supported this project
from the beginning but
not quite as close to my condo as it is
and not to cut out all the light all my
sunshine that it's going to and now it
appears it's going to be even
worse and and also all the vegetation
that he's planting on the west side it
will not see any daylight either nor
will it grow and it will
die and I'll wither up too for No
Sunshine you are there any other
residents that want to make
comments I agree with I'm Nancy marzella
I live in unit 407 in the Alexander and
my unit is also one who will be dealing
with Darkness a lot of the year and I do
enjoy my plants I plant a lot of plants
on my porch but I think that'll be for
never more when I look at this drawing I
feel that that west side of the building
is being treated almost like an alley
you know there's not as many um
beautification um details like the like
the E side of the building and other
sides of the building it's more or less
we're an alley and I agree with Kathy
and everybody we know that those plants
aren't going to grow because it will be
dark and I just wonder if there's
something that can be done about that
and I I I think everybody's kind of
taking the shade study lightly we do not
take that lightly we do not want to be
living in darkness it's not healthy for
one thing to have shade on our building
half of the year
the other thing is we have all these
lovely drawings that you've all done
showing these big lovely trees that I
know I'm not going to live long enough
to ever see those big lovely trees I I
think we need to see drawings that show
the actual size of the plant you plan to
plant there and I know they're going to
be those little Twiggy things and that
building is not going to look as
beautiful on drawings I guess with the
little Twiggy things so I would like to
see actual actual
drawings so that is all I have to say
because that's the only things we're
allowed to talk
about thank
you any other
residents if not is there anyone that
wants to speak in favor of the
project does the applicant want to
respond to anything that's been
said May if you can pull the the shadow
study back up so I'm sorry if I
misquoted but the 30 foot spacing the
spacing between the building location
has not
changed the spacing was really the
spacing of the trees from 45 feet on
Center for each tree along that property
line to 30 feet um it's not the building
to the property line um and then with
the shadow
study I hope I never said that that
building will be in Shadow all the time
because what we're what we're trying to
show is that on August 21 at 10 o'clock
in the morning the sun is already
highlighting the top four or three
floors of the Alexander by noon the
entire building is in full sun uh June
21 the entire building is in full sun
August 21 the entire building is in full
sun at
noon that is what we are trying to
depict with the shadow study and keep in
mind the shadow study is um it's on a
computer program it's as accurate as we
can get it we have a model of the
proposed building we have we have
modeled this building based on as belt
drawings um we know where the site
elevations are the computer does all of
the calculations on the solst and Sun
angles and time of year we could do it
for any day of the year um is it exact
uh I can't swear that it's exact I
didn't design the program um and I think
the the other piece is that this is
showing a shadow line but there's also
ambient light I don't think the shadow
line will be that crisp on most days in
central Ohio it it'll be a blended
Shadow line but this is showing where
the direct sun rays would would stop um
the other thing I think to point out is
along that West property line that is
the shadow line at the ground plane so
any trees or plant material in that
plant bed will be getting Sun from that
time forward right and then it'll start
getting Shadows from the Gateway or the
Alexander but like any Urban condition
I think that's it thank
you no
sorry we now um Ellen I sort of passed
by you at the beginning but do you have
any uh additional comments um I'm sure
monette's glad that she's not in charge
of reading your comments this meeting I
know I I almost just didn't show up for
Monette just so she could have fun um no
I mean I think think that Ryan covered
most of the items in terms of calling
out that the um the lawn area was
removed and larger trees were proposed I
think that uh the tree commission it
makes sense to um talk about the tree
replacement and the funding of those
trees and whether or not the trees
offsite meaning trees in the right of
way or trees in the parking lot um
adjacent to City Hall should be counted
towards their total or not um the
granite curbs thank you for clarifying
that R Ryan in terms terms of um the the
note on that so we can I think we just
as a city just need to verify what are
we using and then just let them know on
that with the winter creeper um the note
of verify actual species prior to
planting um there have been a number of
tree commission members and Alternate
members who have sent um options to
consider for you know in lie of winter
creeper and I think that that's
something that the tree Commission in
the city can definitely Undertake and I
think for the purpose of not having to
hold things up and make that decision
having that note that says verify
species uh prior to planting um should
make sense and we should you know make
sure that that list is actually modified
before it goes out to bid to the
landscape contractors and so they don't
buy 158 winter creeper and then have to
send it back
um see other
items um I think that with the zovas
along um the new access uh Road there I
think that given the the light study
that is showing there and the plant
material that is selected it is both a
part sun full sun plant material all of
that within that and I think that given
the shade studies that there will be
enough sun in terms of for both the
trees and the shrubs um some of those
the plants that are there in terms of um
the grillos sumac and the Ia all do have
a certain amount of shade tolerance and
that area is going to be irrigated and
so I think that they're doing all that
they can for the health and the benefit
of those plants um I appreciate that
they added a little bit more trees in
there increasing that from um 8 to 11
just because I think it'll have a a
nicer La effect as you go down there um
One new item a couple of new items that
were not in my staff report from before
and things that have come up I think
that um we should discuss the north
property line fence if you scroll up a
little bit just on this plan then um
currently right now the property line is
um where that little arrow is and so
they're talking about having a a row of
Evergreen
fencing the property line a row of
Evergreen excuse me plant material and
then a row of fences and the fence is
immediately adjacent to the parking lot
so it is screened by for the four
neighbors on the north but not
necessarily the parking lot by um code
there needs to be an 8 foot fence
between commercial and residential
properties and um continental and Edge
in terms of working through this process
decided to pull their fence back from
the property line to be able to provide
a a bed for the residents there to to
screen for the residents it is common in
some of the areas within the city to
have that fence and it's not screened on
the commercial side um and so that was
the decision that was made and so I
think that that's something that the
tree commission should discuss as to
whether or not they think that that
makes sense um or do they flip it in
terms of the fences at the property line
thereby having the screening for the
parking lot um The Alley off of brighten
Ryan noted that they are adding three
additional ballards there that will
prevent um any kind of vehicular traffic
that's going in and currently right now
in terms of talking with them the
discussion is that that road would be
repaved just in Asphalt as a 10- foot
asphalt path that could be used by both
pedestrian and vehicular traffic and
there has been I know some discussion
about are there other materials um that
could potentially be better off used
there in terms of either papers or
permeable pavers that I think is
something that the tree commission could
discuss um the use of brick I believe
that Ryan covered that in terms of
adding Brick by the Hudson 29 entrance
it does exist in that Central Plaza I
think that Ben if you could scroll down
to the Main Street part um oops um I
think that the area that is going to be
basically where um so you can see the
brick there that you see in the gray
that would be the pavers that area that
is kind of in between um
now City Hall what the old Plaza is
right yeah where Ben's cursor is that I
think needs to be relooked at and has a
great opportunity for further brick and
I think that that's something that needs
to that that whole area needs to be
studied right now in terms of coming in
I know that that's not part of our
review today but I think that uh
coordination efforts are going to need
to happen with it within that EV
Chargers that had come up so the
electric car chargers the one that are
out here currently right now they are
not planned to be relocated in any way
um and if new ones are to happen they
were talking about having them within
the actual parking garage itself and not
necessarily out they are difficult to
screen they tend to be pretty big um and
so that's something that um to get the
tree commissions kind of thought on that
and then bike racks you can see along
Main Street um if you are looking at the
Central Plaza and you go to tree walls
to the East and then two to the West you
can see that they have bike racks that
are located within the right of way on
those areas and whether or not that's an
appropriate use of their location um
that the tree commission should discuss
and then they're also by the Eastern
entrance off of the parking lot um they
they have another set up in through
there yep exactly up in that area and
those were the only other kind of
changes from the staff comments from the
previous one thank you
Elena um so um just a reminder where we
left off because I didn't mention this
before we've already approved the access
road cutting through the right of way
with conditions so we're not we've
already done that work I think um we now
could ask questions of Elena or
Spencer um or the applicant uh that you
have and I again with are just to sort
of focus in on the changes that have
been made um and then we can proceed to
discuss are there any questions for
Elena or the applicant or Spencer I have
a I have a question for the applicant
please going back to the solar
study if you could go to this the Sun
Path
please where you
have the the month and year yes so I'm
really wondering that this doesn't seem
to be an
elevation doesn't seem to represent to
me
23.5 something around their degree of
sun and I'm
wondering if this here we are at 10:
a.m. and that's at noon at what what
would 2 o' look like would that be all
blocked out for the most part can you
please go back one slide the first
floor so that was in December you were
looking at 10 and noon you can see where
the edge of the Shadow is here at noon
which was
hitting the Alexander's first
floor by by
2m the shadow of the Gateway and the
shadow of the Alexander basically the
sun is almost due south right so this is
all in Sun right here okay and our
shadow is up on the North
yep and then by four o'clock then the
Gateway starts to Shadow now keep in
mind that's in December when trees and
most deciduous plants are all dormant
they're really not getting a whole lot
of use out of the Sun at that point so
as far as vegetation
goes December is more about I think
probably for building ARB um so that
people understand how much shade is
actually going to be on right certain
parts of the site seems like they're
shaded more than we anticipate
and I'm not sure how what what's shaded
more than we anticipate aren't you
thinking about going up another
floor no that's shown on this this site
plane you can see the six story right
here it's just this little piece of the
building okay it's a
partial so that that's included in this
Shadow study I just not sure if the
trees will survive under that minimal I
know that's a minimal amount of sunlight
for that time yeah I would just
recommend you know driving down any
urban street with seven story buildings
and understanding there are shade trees
or Street
trees in in every city right with Urban
buildings I
mean it this is not going to cast a dark
like nighttime Shadow on anything it's
gonna be ambient light here for sunlight
I do understand that it just it seems
that it's really ta changing the ability
to be able to grow healthy trees in
December
uh to keep them healthy and through the
fall you know when the leaves are off
and
they they still I know the trees need to
go to a dormy but that right they're not
providing a lot of energy and growth
during that those months right y I still
question that though okay so just also
as a followup I mean when so trees stop
photosynthesizing when the um when the
leaves are off and so when the trees are
in dorcy they're they're really not
doing anything which is one of the
reasons why people say you can plant in
the fall and through the winter because
it's not as such a big shock to the
trees because they're basically sleeping
and so really looking at the months of
April and August from you know noon to 4
or even six in terms of full sun is
considered six or more um hours a day of
sunlight part sun is anywhere from like
3 to six and then full shade is you know
full shade obviously so when you're
looking at those and understanding that
the trees are definitely going to have
anywhere from four to six hours of
sunlight or the plants that they're
going to be they based on the sun
studies that are shown here they should
be good and do you think since we're on
the trees the trees that are being
planted since they'll have a back they
won't have it back to them anymore
because they're close to the to the
building that they're they're a good
choice themselves for the trees yes I
mean I think that all of the trees that
have been selected are trees that are
selected to be Urban tolerant and urban
tolerance is also considered not only
salt tolerance but also in terms of
concrete in terms of its surrounding in
terms of concrete but then it's also
concerned in terms of heat in terms of
the heat island effect not only from the
concrete and the asphalt but also from
adjacent buildings in the heat that
might reflect off of the the buildings
and so um if anything um you know having
you know kind of an Alleyway here it's
going to you know create a warmer
environment which is probably going to
be healthy healthier for the trees it's
going to be a little bit more protected
from winds that can some sometimes
damage early new trees but most of the
plant material and the trees that they
have selected are all Urban tolerant and
would consider would do well in those
areas that your all your questions yes
for now questions I have any
others I feel the guidance of Elena H is
very important and I the comments that
you've
made I think should put us all at peace
about the process of shade and um the
trees being able to tolerate so thank
you right and I mean and just you know
to also play you know Devil's Advocate
the Alexander is going to be shading the
plant material as well along there so I
mean both buildings are going to be
creating an environment that I think
Edge is trying to negotiate in terms of
um you know what's going to work well
because as you can see as you get
towards four o'cl now the Alexander is
starting to shade you know the building
you know to the to the east of it and so
basically you know just really trying to
design that as a an urban street
basically so it will get less Sun than
even in when it's not shaded by the by
the new building it will get its own
shade because of Alexander then yeah so
we'll we'll have time for discussion I'm
trying to keep us orderly um any
questions Mar well I appreciate um your
information I would be curious though
just to hear your thoughts about it
Spencer you know with your
experience um I think that the zovas
will be all right um he brings up a good
point you know if you were to drive down
in Downtown Columbus you know those
buildings are 40 stories 20 stories
easily um and those trees they do well
they exhibit phototropism so they grow
towards your light if anything probably
these trees will grow vertically
quicker um but yeah I mean there're as
good a choice as any for
the conditions kind of like an underst
story in the forest yeah you know it's a
good way to look at it
yeah Mr Vice chair I'm unsure if we're
just talking about zovas or or more it's
open to any questions anyone has before
we move on to discussion as members of
the commission okay um so I guess I'll
just Reserve I don't have any questions
about the
zovas or about anything else uh no
because I I do think we have um
opportunity during our discussion to
talk about the the alleys and the bricks
so I I think that's all the questions so
now we move to discussion
um anyone want to
start um yes I I'd be happy to start to
lay out some of the topics I have for
discussion and then maybe we could add
to them sure and one is the um the
bricks that uh I don't mayor could you
go back to that one where it showed um
Edge installing some bricks on
the I I'm not sure that's the Ryan is
that the new one didn't you show some on
if we go to the West Side didn't you
show a brick threshold on the
access
the gray area by U the number 769 that
goes from the building directly
south okay okay I guess I I missa
whatever it was before I was I'm um
thoughtful that the brick threshold
between the two buildings would be
helpful and not uh in a transition to
notify drivers that they are moving from
one condition to another as well as sort
of uh
I guess make the building look a little
bit more situated in the site um and we
also talked about maybe some permeable
surfaces along that connector path I
don't know what you call that um
from the north parking lot to Brien is
there a name for that is it just
connector NE connector um know knowing
that there is going to be a difference
in coverage of the lot with the building
and the the asphalt it would seem to me
that um
uh changing out the asphalt into
permeable surface would um be helpful
for the environment and uh probably be
helpful in meeting whatever conditions
perhaps that um you're going to need to
mitigate for storm water
runoff um I do think that we need to
have as a topic item the discussion of
moving the fence back to the property
line um from being 5T North it would
offer benefits to uh Landscaping inside
that and as well as coverage of the
fence from the parking lot I'd like to
have a full commission discussion on
that
um since we're yeah since it's just a
discussion I'm going to say I think zova
is a good choice I think you know dis
Spencer's point it's worked well in
Bexley we have zova and living St
planted five or seven in front of the uh
pay King
Dynasty multiple yeah multiple locations
and they have done well in extremely
tough you know Urban conditions without
any um any type of
irrigation and I'm I'm grateful for uh
bringing more brick into the plan
because it's one of the unique aspects
of Beckle we talked about that their
first meeting I think in September brick
rod iron and pillar and so just having a
brick installation helps bring this kind
of in line with the history of Bexley so
those are be my topics Mr Vice chair do
you expect me to remember all those well
I have them written down here I'll pass
it
over other
comments I um so I have some some
comments you
know I think I'd start by saying that
you know um
the applicant obviously has the right
under the the Main Street guidelines um
to um do whatever those guidelines allow
it to do I do think that um the loss of
those sycamores or I'm sorry London
Plains um is sort of the elephant in the
room in the elephant in the community
and I think um it's difficult to see
that they would survive this
Construction in any event um but um
everything we have to consider to me is
considered in light of the loss of those
trees and the landscape plan um is for
me is considered in light of the loss of
those trees as well as the other trees
and um I think this sort of moves the
Main Street guidelines from being
conceptual to real and as we develop the
rest of Main Street I'd simply rais the
question of uh what does our future hold
if every other applicant can remove
London planes so that um a major feature
of the character of Main Street now is
lost and I think uh we don't have the
say so over that but it does impact my
assessment of the plan um appropo of
some of the things Susan said um you
know I trust our staff and the zovas
have succeeded elsewhere it's also a
serious issue for the neighbors and it's
the one that we've heard a lot about in
their comments and and I do think um
that anything we approve should have
some sort of interim review to see
whether those trees are living up to
their
promise uh because the folks that live
next door are going to be the most
directly affected by those um in terms
of of um The Alley up to
Brien in addition to what Susan said um
you know this is a substance or this is
a structure that's largely impermeable
all the water that hits this is going to
go into our sewer system it seems to me
that some sort of permeable surface in
the alley would at least in a small way
assuage the loss of permeability that
that this project entails so you know I
I think that that's an important aspect
of this um you know um I will say that I
think that that the landscape architect
and Edge have done a good job of trying
to bring as good a plan as possible
given the footprint and the size of this
structure and when we get to it I I'll
make a motion that addresses that but um
if I'm recognized um but I think I think
you know
um
that this should be you know I I realize
that the ordinances do have uh
a provision in there that cidly the
applicant's not responsible for the fact
that we found it largely insufficient to
ensure that property owners maintain
their property and so I'd probably put
some conditions on any changes coming
back to this commission given how
important a project this is um you know
I
um agree with that I think this is an
opportune time to talk about the the
ground cover in the in the tree planter
boxes and I think that has to be a
larger conversation but my guess is that
we're not planning that until 2025
probably realistically so um um we've
got time to have that discussion and I
doubt that that's the applicants major
concern here um you know whe you know
whether bike racks and Hardscape are
within our jurisdiction we've certainly
talked about them a lot over the years
and you know again we talked about this
last meeting we as opposed to many plans
where we we have the final say we're
just making recommendations to Bap here
and so I don't think it hurts for us to
offer our views as to where charging
stations or bike racks or or Hardscape
goes and so I do think that's all
appropriately within the scope of our
discussion
so there further
discussion can i f for one thing and and
just because I Haven it I'm Jason hawo
kind real estate have to give the public
a chance to resp no that's fair I'm I'm
for that um but I want to point
something out here that there's a
technical issue with converting that
connector path to Brien uh into peral
pavement and if you look there's a red
line as sa as it goes up through there
and it comes back up through that
connection piece um that is a 15 sanary
sub trunk that serves the greater area
of the community City Columbus controls
those facilities and generally what they
try to do is avoid infiltration into
their trenches so by putting permeable
pavement over that of any sort pavers
whatever effectively what you're
encouraging is water to get into their
system and that's not something that
even if you suggested or required us to
do that we couldn't get that approved to
the city of Columbus so I understand
where we are conceptually and what we're
trying to pursue but there is a
technical restriction that we have and
and we we would not be able to commit to
that at all as part of the project and
and just for background I'm a
professional engineer I've been civil
engineer for almost 30 years so you know
prior to working for Frank I was in
Consulting and did this stuff all the
time so uh just want to point that out
because I get the feeling we're going to
head towards that discussion and want
you go down a path that we couldn't
perform for you if you asked so does
anyone um from the community want to
respond thank
you so C we could respond with the
questions though then correct absolutely
okay so it would be interesting to me if
that was not
available what would be
available so so what we we are proposing
as part of the project is in within the
garage system itself an underground
storage system so uh what it does is it
it filters out the fine sediments and
debris uh prior to that storm water
getting into the system so within the
garage itself there will be these
chambers that hold water detain it
there'll be a water quality unit
associated with that which basically
takes out the debris paper uh oils that
type thing out of the water itself so
that's how we offset uh some of the
storm water concerns that you have so
that that's how it's it's
managed is is that feeding in then to
the storm water sewer system well Theo
the storm water ultimately does go into
the storm water system which obviously
Outlets to the the creek there to the
West except where it goes into the
ground that's that's the distinction the
commission is concerned about is not all
rainwater goes in into the sewer system
some of it goes into the ground that's
the value of
trees I guess I I I maybe was too vague
with my comment what I was hoping to
sort of allude to was if there can't be
pavers up there could the area then
therefore between say the Alexander and
the Rusty Bucket be be pavers again so
again there's the challenges we have to
relocate that sanary tour around the
west side of the building so that will
be routing down the west side of the
building so if you look at the drawing
the the sanitary sub trunk actually sits
underneath the building as it is
occupied today we're moving it West into
the middle of that drive aisle it's a
pretty significant expense it's uprs are
like three quarters or half or a million
bucks so
yeah the red line on on the west there
yeah yeah so we're actually going to be
moving that West into
into the middle of the alley so you know
there there are you know beyond there's
a lot of technical issues with with a a
compact site like this I mean obviously
uh we also have you know we've always
avoided it haven't really discussed it
but on the northeast corner there's AT&T
cabinets those conduit at Duck bank that
fiber feeds everyone's internet up in
the area it's how everybody communicates
we've got a re that around the north
side of the building and come down the
west side as well so it the the idea of
doing uh perious pavers perious payment
is very difficult on the site hence why
we are doing Chambers underneath the
building I have a question ahead okay
thank you um so given that a lot of this
happens our large rainwater occurs when
we have because the flooding occurs
because of large rain water but large
amount of rain water but what happens if
we uh have electric electricity go out
what is your capacity to keep that
running when you have to keep a whole
building running with 20 some
apartments 200 200 or I say 20 I I
dropped a digit didn't I yeah so I'm GNA
be a little bit out of my Lane here we
we're dependent on a just like you all
are so however AP a will feed the
facilities I recognize in Bexley I've
heard from Mr Cass and Mr Lux about the
problems that there's been here
historically but you know those
facilities are also aeps to manage so
however I I would defer to them to be
able to answer your question it seems to
me that there should be more self-
knowledge about this because you are
impacting our environment to a great
deal we're losing a lot of our trees to
absorb the water we're not being able to
drain the way that we normally have
drained and I'm just love to have we're
asking questions okay I just want to
know what kind of well we're a customer
of a as well I mean we'd be dependent
upon their facilities uh to be able to
operate our property you know you know
we reach out to them ask for what we
call Will Serve letters do we have the
capacity not negatively impact other
neighbors or whatever and you know we're
pursuing that now but we do not
anticipate any problems from
that okay thank you
any if we could go on mayor Kesler did
you want to offer a
comment have some questions because but
I in the spirit of um bringing out some
more information I think if it's okay
Jason specific to storm water retention
is that that's then you're ret retaining
and then you're slow releasing back into
the stand into the storm is that am that
correct correct so the uh the way that's
designed is
uh it's actually detention this is the
different slightly different retention
you see a pond or whatever detention um
but the it takes a large rainfall event
dump a bucket of water on there and it
holds it and and just releases at a much
lesser rate you don't have that today so
it should be improving it I know part of
the original meetings I had with the
Alexander was to talk through some of
their concerns about what they deal with
today what you know how or or if we're
improving in the situation or whatever
we we should be reducing the runoff that
goes through the Alexander property um
and because of that we we will lessen
the amount of um I'll say impact to the
system that's even in Main Street
because that's where our storm water
Outlets ultimately uh so what what
you'll see is a reduction and runoff
from the property under the current
configuration just because of Standards
have changed it's improved it's you know
we we will be lessening lessening the
impact to the community yeah and I
wanted to point that out it's really
important to us and so we've been
adamant about that as as is the code
fortunately uh that just that it's not
simply it's not simply storing and
releasing right away but it's a slow
release which solves helps to solve a
lot of the flooding issues we've had as
a community also I'm I'm a I want to
make sure we're not cross
crossing the EV issue this project has
new EV charging units as part of the
project we are not planning on
abandoning the city hall EV
infrastructure right I think Elena
mentioned that in her remarks I was I
was a little we're adding electric
vehicle charging stations within the
garage itself so okay clarify thank you
is that all your questions have so many
more okay move on
okay so maybe Mr Vice chair we should go
on to the question of the location of
the uh fence on the property line or not
on the property line sure uh I mean the
one of my concerns is about the fence is
is I read the ordinances and this is spe
specifically uh section 12 64.0 5 it
says the fence shall be on the property
line is um how I read it um if um you
know we I don't think we have the power
to gr Durant a variance so I think if
there you know I understand the
neighbors's concern and their desire for
plannings on that side and this seems a
bit of an oddity that that's how the
ordinance is written but it does seem to
say that the fence shall be on the
property line so I think at least in any
recommendation we make we need to
clarify that um we're not recommending a
variance um my understanding from
previous resident statements is that
most of the uh resident side of that
fence already has significant
plannings so I guess in terms of my
limited aesthetic sense it raises to me
the question of whether the plannings
are better on the parking lot side if
the fence is already going to be well
covered by plantings on the other side
of the fence I think Ellena staff
comments that Monette read last month
indicated that of the four Residential
Properties three already had significant
um
Evergreen barriers between that and the
parking lot I I don't know if it's all
Evergreen but it's it is a a combination
of that um and then I wasn't sure in
terms of Ryan and Jason if you guys had
talked to or made any kind of
discussions with the homeowners there or
if it's something that you had already
discussed with zoning in terms of the
location of that fence I I spoke with
one directly um and then I think the
other Home wasn't occupied at the time
so did not get to Comm communicate with
them but you know we're receptive to the
idea if we need to to go talk to those
neighbors if they prefer some of those
plannings on their side of the fence we
can work with them and and make that
work that's that's not an issue from our
perspective uh well I'd be interested in
other commission members thoughts on
that because it would seem that's a what
what is the linear footage of that is it
150 ft I think you mentioned to us Ryan
what it was significant maybe that's
universe but along um along the East
Main Street Frontage it's I think it was
303 feet basly from the property line to
the other property line so it's got to
be close Okay close enough right okay if
I I would add that if if the plannings
are going to be on the parking lot side
some variation I mean I'm not suggesting
height variation but at least in terms
of alternating species there would be
nice instead of a solid I guess it's s
it's Juniper I think Juniper okay yeah
from our perspective we would be open to
any of you know setting a rhythm of
different plantings and the diversity
through there um we were doing that
purely as a good gesture to the
neighbors to soften up the the the wall
fence of an 8 foot fence or the wall
effect of an eight foot fence along
their property line is why the plants
are on their side of the fence I I I
think also just to remind commission
members that when you build a fence like
this the more attractive aspect of the
fence would be on the neighbor side
correct the fence that we''ve uh
specified so far is the exact same fence
that's a long Giant Eagle and it's a
two-sided fence so it really two sided
fence they're both finished sides
yeah um I I just want to make sure I'm
looking at the right thing because I
walked over there to see what was
currently there and it's it's a rock or
a u chain link fence right that's on
that border that North border currently
there's a chain link fence along the
north copy line I don't know if it's on
on our property or actually on the
single family and that's the one that
we're saying is 5 feet to the
north of the property line as the fence
um 5 feet into the property with the
plantings then on the outside of the
fence so between the two fences right
okay
because so you know I I for me I think
this could be solved by approving other
aspects of the plan and bringing this
relative ly minor issue back to us but
maybe we need advice from the mayor or
someone but as I read the ordinance and
I wouldn't have written it this way it
says the fence should be on the property
line and I don't think we have the power
to Grant a variance from that now Bap
would um so maybe at the end of the day
it's not a problem but yeah I agree that
Bap would be the one to grant that
variance um but I think you can make a
recommendation that uh if you if you
wish you could make a recommendation
that the fence be moved to the property
line um to provide the buffer on the
south side and from a practical matter
the applicant could always discuss
providing additional plantings on the
resident side if they would
wish potentially yeah it just seems to
me 300 feet and five feet of depth is a
lot of planting space and that uh with
the varied vegetation of juniper and
Arbor and I didn't know if you could
stick in some shade trees it would do a
lot to um compensate for loss of
greenery in other areas well I walked
out there just you know before the
meeting and it's pretty much Wing ganous
which is highly invasive and all I saw
most of what's over there probably could
EAS there I think there's a lot
honeysuckle yeah yeah that's maybe not
theonomous but um
in talking to Jason I mean so here's a
property line there's a property line
there's one so these are the four kind
of lots this lot on the west really
doesn't have a lot of greenery along
their fence line the other three do and
yes I think a lot of it probably at
least in this site here or is
honeysuckle um but I think Jason you'd
be open to going and talking to any of
these neighbors to see if they would
like some plantings to help soften the
wall effect if we move the fence to the
property
line and then we would have the 5T on
our side to move some plants and um and
I think you could do leather leaf I burn
them or
something I think semi Evergreen you
know huge huge opportunity there yeah
and plus a kind of a good neighbor and
we already have a few uh trees that are
in that area and there are some existing
trees so I don't know that we would
really be adding a lot of canopy into
that area but I think mixing up the
shrubs or the Hedge would be nice I
think there are some larger trees though
over there I'm not sure what they are
that would off our site yeah yeah
there's uh there's some Norway spruce
that looks like right in this area I'm
not exactly sure what these two large
ones are just off the site
okay other areas for
conversation I do like the idea of not
having to go to Bap and just having it
on the property line as we have done in
the past and provide um plantings for
the people that are
involved that own homes one of which I
have sold so I know that that's part of
the conversation that would make them
very
happy I I would say that it's hardly
fair to these junipers to plant them
next to honeysuckle they deserve a fence
in I'm just curious do we even know how
much that alley is used it's used a lot
is it I think it's a shortcut to Giant
Eagle or for the local and over to City
Hall
okay I never knew that before this
project um other if if we're done
talking about the fence or there are
other areas folks want to discuss are we
ready for a motion to frame our
discussion
well generally at this time we call on
everybody individually so we make sure
so let's start Miss mcmun do you have
any more questions or any topics I no
Susan just really quickly for the
minutes do we want to nce that Dave
Wakeman showed up yes we do we can say
Dave Wakeman was here although we did
have a quorum and I should say that city
council women's City laurianne F was
also here so let's let the minutes
please note okay so you have no more
questions Miss St I do not miss Williams
I do I do and I would love for Ellena to
chime in to see what we can do to
improve some of the um the
uh the ability for the water to be able
to transfer down into the ground a
little bit more rather than um all this
have all this concrete can we were
talking about brick before and you were
saying that that was not going to be a
we were able to do that so I'm hoping
you have some good solutions for that so
I I think given now the knowledge of the
sewer line running there the main area
where that would be beneficial it sounds
as if it's potentially taken off of the
table and so the fact that they do have
beds around the perimeter of the
building I mean I think that they have
beds as big as they possibly can given
what the zoning allows for in terms of
the size of the building um I I don't
know if having
you know permeable parking lots and and
pavers with that economically makes
sense it's kind of an unproven kind of
technology that it is used in terms of
having like permeable concrete and
permeable asphalt um but I think that
the fact that they are in a certain way
taking the water and actually then
detaining it and treating it is a
fantastic thing to to hear I hadn't I
hadn't heard that yet I mean I think
that it is it is certainly not this same
in terms of the area that is open and
green right now where water can be
retained and goes back into the aquifer
and you know helps all the different
plants but the issue is that is in
conflict with development of you know a
commercial development within this
Corridor so it's it's it's kind of hard
to you you can't necessarily have your
cake and eat it too you can't
necessarily say we want to develop this
lot and then provide you know apartments
for the community that really needs it
but then we also want to have as much
open Green Space as possible to retain
you know the knowledge there um that
would then I would say then that area
would need to be zoned as like a park or
something but it's the zoned commercial
so I think that for um you know the
aspect in terms of providing trees and
providing plant material um I mean
unless Ryan has any other thoughts I I
can't think of anything off the top of
my head that would not that would
necessarily change that in terms of sort
of saying hey could we put everything
right permeable papers yes thank you um
I'm just get concerned because we're
losing a lot of our our uh soil to
absorb and he wasn't speaking of any
kind of
redundancy program uh equipment for this
big uh retention that you were having
put in but I can add something too just
from our work with retain with um
permeable pavement um just recently we
were looking at permeable pavement as
part of our Al the future project the
Geotech work that we've done in Bexley
has indicated not surprisingly that the
soil is incredibly clay filled and
so just like permeable Pavements that
might work in areas geotechnically that
have more permeable soil uh those do
function well but in Bexley all it does
is come right back up because it's Clay
um so we wanted to do permeable pavement
because it feels really good but it
wasn't going to achieve the you know the
the what we were hoping to achieve with
it and so we've had to change course and
and that's not the first time we found
that I would imagine that the soil
throughout Bexley is probably as we know
digging in our own yards fairly
consistent um so I think another thing
that might be asked of the applicant is
are there other options not to put you
on the spot but with that retention or
Detention of the water can it be used as
a graywater system to help come back to
the landscape in it
all might be a question that a
commission member might ask if that's of
interest thank you may uh yes R Brian
would you about gray water so we have
dealt with systemns with gray water
before and you have to imagine that your
detention is there to capture water when
it's raining slow release it over time
so that you're helping offset the
flooding effects of the rainwater um
however when you need the water for the
landscape it's it's all out of the
sistern and ready for the next rainfall
so um those sisters and graywater
systems are very difficult to to really
make them work right I would say very
difficult thank
you so um in order to um help us oh Mr
Wakeman I'm so sorry I forgot to call on
you I just have one question is this
building gonna be lead certified or no
no okay it is it possible to know what
the life of the building would be it's I
know it's not really a question for us
but I keep thinking of the life of the
trees do you have any sense you can just
refuse to
answer okay then we'll move on so um Mr
Wilson I know that you have worked on
framing a motion so that we're not here
till midnight and I believe that you
have copies to share with people and to
read I do um not that it guarantees we
won't be here till
midnight okay
oops
okay
is otherwise we can share um is it
appropriate to give to people in the
audience sure okay guys share is there
any extra loran down there okay maybe
give it to to Ryan and Jason and any
extra there to give to people in the
audience Ellen
is there anything to give to Nancy or
Kathy any extras no but you know what
Dave and I can share okay that'd be
great okay yeah Mr Wilson would you
start please and frame the con the so
let me preface this motion by saying
that that you know this was obviously
drafted based on our previous
conversation and we've heard some some
new things I did hear try to incorporate
what we saw in the changes to the plan
but um there there will be no um no
offense taken if folks want to remove or
revise any part of this motion but given
this is more complicated than our normal
landscape review I thought it'd be
helpful to have a framework to work from
so um I'll read the whole thing um based
on the plans and testimony presented the
tree Comm and public ardan commission
makes the following findings and
recommendations to the board of zoning
appeals under Bexley ordinance
12206 D recommend that the approval of
any plan be conditioned on the approval
of a plan presented by the owner of the
city hall Beckley Square parking lot or
pursuant to its Express Authority that
incorporates the elements of the
applicants uh plan that are located on
the city hall Beckley Square parking lot
and such plan be approved before
construction begins two um recommend
that the landscap plan be found
satisfactory and consistent with the
standards applicable to the Main Street
District if if
modified um as follows a change the
material around the tree Wells on Main
Street from Granite to Limestone you can
ignore the the next line
um B and again this I would point this
at one out as one we may particularly
want to reconsider um in light of the
discussion we've just had in order uh
partially offset the increase in
nonporous surfaces under the plan
applicant will present a plan for
landscaping and Hardscape replacement
and maintenance for the alley connecting
the property to brighten road which
includes replacement of asphalt with
pavers or other material allowing for
permeable drainage if the applicant is
advised by the fire department which is
what we had heard about previously that
permeable materials may not be used in
this alley be communicate it will
communicate such direction of the tree
and public garden commission and seek
further Direction concerning this plan C
with respect to the access road on the
side west side of the building a brick
threshold will be concl included
adjacent to the sidewalk Crossing to
differentiate the surface and maintain
consistency within the Main Street
District uh B if plannings on either
side of the access road on the west side
of the building fail at any time or if
the city arborous determines that they
are failing to grow at rates that would
be achieved would would achieve the
expected Landscaping results the
applicant will present a plan to the
tree and public garden commission after
cons consultation with the adjacent
residents uh D with respect to the fence
at the rear North End of the property
pursuant to Bexley ordinance
12645 the fence will be relocated from a
location shown on the plans to the
property line and screening relocated to
the south parking lot side of the fence
the park the applicant shall present a
plan to the tree and public garden
commission for variation in the species
included in the
screening um you can ignore e f um
applicant will consult with the tree and
public garden commission prior to
planning uh regarding the appropriate
ground cover species to plant in the
tree boxes contained in the Plan G bike
racks will be located from the Main
Street side of the building to other
locations on the property h uh in light
of the loss of canopy and mature trees
within the site applicant will make a
contribution of 600 I'm sorry
$6,750 rep representing
$750 times n current trees lost and not
being replaced in the plan um and this
says for the to the tree for Bexley fund
of the Bexley Community Foundation that
is not there could be other places the
donation could be made including the
city it' be solely for the planning of
new trees in the city of Bexley is
approved by the tree and public garden
commission H all planning shall be
maintain in perpetuity absent approval
by the tree and public garden commission
three recommend that the landscape plan
not be found to represent exceptional
design in so far as the landscaping
design is considered a factor in
determining under Bexley ordinance
124.14 whether a special permit should
be granted to allow the the buildings to
be built at a height greater than three
stories based on the following findings
this recommendation is not a critique of
the landscape architecture within the
limitations of the footprint of the
proposed Project B the loss of London
planes on the property which the tree
and public garden commission cannot
prevent under the current Main Street
guidelines represent a significant loss
in the landscape of Bexley and the
streetcape of Main Street e the size
density and footprint of the project
significantly limit any opportunity for
landscaping that would qualify as
exceptional design such plannings are
limited to the periphery of the property
and will require a number of years to
gain sufficient height and canopy to
match the magnitude of the structures
being built four recommends that a if a
Varian is granted to allow the project
to exceed the heights permitted under
Bexley ordinance
124.14 under a special permit that Bap
as a condition of the variants modify
the set baths contained in the Main
Street guidelines either to preserve
existing Street trees or to allow the
replacement of those trees removed by
plantings on both sides of The
Pedestrian walkway five recommend that
VAP require the applicant to gain
approval of any modifications to the
plan presented by the tree by the tree
and public uh Garden commission prior to
any plannings occurring and six
recommend that be app in consultation
with the tree and public garden
commission present to council proposals
to modify the permissible setbacks in
the Main Street District so as to permit
the preservation of significant Street
trees in future construction within the
Main Street
District hey thank you very much for
putting that in good good working order
so as Jim suggested maybe we can co-op
and lead the discussion on this or
the sure so let me just kind of go
through this remember we're we're in the
unusual space of making recommendations
and not having the final decision making
here and so this incorporates some of
this the first recommendation is just
what we did um last time with respect to
the access road because we assume that
this that the city of Bexley or the
owners of this property are going to
present the plan but we don't know that
and so just to make sure we're we've
safeguarded ourselves one requires that
that come before us and gets
approved um under two um you know
overall I think you know that the plan
does satisfy sort of the standards that
we have as a as a city um and if we
weren't jumping ahead if we weren't in
that sort of um section of our
ordinances that requires of finding
among or
includes one of it the aspect effect of
finding that the design and architecture
is extraordinary I think we wouldn't
have we wouldn't we wouldn't hesitate to
say with conditions that this is an
acceptable plan at least that's my view
the first part of this is the applicants
already said is fine and Elena
recommended uh shifting from Granite to
Limestone which is consistent with the
practice we've adopted B I think you
know uh given what you've heard we can
drop that we could say
you know if the uh if the city of
Columbus doesn't permit it then we drop
it um you know I umum you know I have no
reason to disbelieve the applicant here
but I we haven't heard it from the uh
the city of Columbus that we can't do it
so one option there would be to modify
this to say if the city of Columbus says
no Then That requirements Dro um the
other the other note would also be I
think talking about the soils you know
in terms that's right the pl out it it
it you know it might not be viable we
really did we took I think three soil
samples and engineer soil samples and it
was just it was solid clay and so as
much as we wanted to have permeable
pavers it wouldn't have done anything to
alleviate the flooding and the alley
because it just the water wouldn't go
anywhere it would just actually stay in
the water and that may be enough maybe
that we just want to drop this one um
but it's there for discussion you know
see you know we've heard from experts
that the these trees are fine but it's
of deep concern to the neighbors so I
put it in there because um it doesn't
seem to me that if if everyone's right
then we there's no problem in five years
but if for some reason we're wrong the
shade is different if the trees don't
have you know don't do as well as they
do at a Chinese restaurant um you know
that then the neighbors can have some
voice in trying to find
replacement that works for everyone um
we've sort of talked a lot about the
fence that's that's why that's in there
and frankly I have no concern with just
putting you know rephrasing this so we
put the fence to the side uh I don't
think it's a big issue for the applicant
there I think it's a bigger issue um for
the neighbors and having some
conversation there might make some sense
um you know um ground cover I think we
know where we are in ground cover we're
sort of up in the air ground cover and
reconsidering whether our current
preferred ground cover is the right
ground cover in the city bike racks um
you know can question whether that's
part of a landscaping plan but you know
landscape plan is nowhere to find in the
ordinances I can tell you that um um
loss of canopy here I sort of pointed
this out whether the tree fund is right
or the money should go to the city I
mean I guess there it may be a little um
odd for it to go to a private Foundation
even though that private foundation's
money comes right back to the city my
underlying concern in that provision is
that we not just use it to plant trees
we're going to plant anyway we should
use it to plant trees that we wouldn't
plant otherwise that's all I care about
in that provision um you know um the
planning is in perpetuity the applicant
you know I don't doubt that the
applicant is Con very committed while
they own the building to making sure the
plannings stay the same but we've
experienced with other commercial
buildings that code enforcement Isn't So
been so far a successful remedy to get
things up to what we were promised so
that's why that's in there um you know I
want to emphasize with three I don't
mean any disrespect for the landscape
architecture here I just think that that
that given the commercial reality that
this developer wants a a very massive
building that it's really hard to say
that the landscape design here is
extraordinary when you compare it to the
loss of some significant London planes
along the street and I don't know you
know this is just one factor that dap
will consider among others to decide
whether a special permit is granted
that's you know again all we can do is
make
recommendations but at least from my
point of view and Others May disagree I
I wouldn't call the the design I mean I
would call it extraordinary within the
constraints of the size of the building
but I wouldn't call it extraordinary in
the abstruct so that's what the reason
for that um as I understand our our code
and again Bap will decide this the six
floor section here um would require a
variance because a special permit can
let you go up to five stories but a six
story requires a variance and that seems
to me to put stuff on the table know to
be honest I don't really think there's
any circumstances where we can save the
London planes I mean I think the real
real fact that all the construction
access is going to be off Main Street I
think it's it's just not possible which
doesn't mitigate the loss in my mind but
it does seem to me that if they're going
higher the possibility it the Bap should
at least consider the possibility of
moving it back and creating sort of
trees on both sides which In fairness
was an idea Susan had who have better
aesthetic judgment than I ever will um
the um so and then the last one is you
know I I guess I re this particular
property has real challenges because of
the elevation change but um in light of
the fact that you know um other propert
we know that Capital universities
studying its long-term plan for its
property there are other places along
Main Street that there are significant
trees that if if a new land owner is
allowed to build um you know right up to
the property line those trees which
wouldn't necessarily be lost um would be
lost and I just think as I said earlier
today it's time to think about now that
Main Street district is not in the
abstract but we have a project which
makes it really real is that what we
want as a city and city council may say
yeah that's what we want as a city but I
think raising the issue as a tree
commission is appropriate at this
time so um before we go through and
decide what we want to include or change
I would like to know Elena if you have
any comments on any of
these or if you'd like to take a hall
pass for a minute um I think that I mean
I think I comment on 2D in terms of um
discussing whether or not meeting with
the homeowners should be something that
is um is recommended
uh should be discussed the the bike
racks I'm not 100% sure if the bike
racks are in the purview of the tree
commission I think that we can certainly
discuss it but I don't know if that's
something that you know we necessarily
comment on and so I don't know if um I
don't know if that should actually if
that just OB obfuscates obate obfuscates
love that word I like the word but it's
hard for me to pronounce it um and then
um the the last remaining ones I mean
the ones that are talking about
um recommending to um Bap about future
development I think I don't know if that
necessarily needs to be tied to this
it's just it's just a general question I
think it is an excellent idea I think it
is something that needs to be brought up
and discussed with Bap but I just don't
know if it if it makes sense to tie it
to this project if it's just if it's if
it's co-mingling to broader issues so
some of the the the big B issues I mean
there might be a recommendation that we
have that is specifically related to
this application and then we might have
a second thing that just says Hey out of
the discussion and review of this here
are some things that we would like VAP
to recommend I just don't know how much
sense it makes to that's fair yeah Mr
Martin nothing to
add okay Monette no I think I has
covered it okay
laurian allow to have a conversation
legally well you're you're the lucky one
yeah okay thank you for being here then
mayor um I would reiterate a couple
things that um Ellena
mentioned uh bike racks in the
briway typically are within the city's
prview those don't typically fall under
planning or sorry B either and I would
just say that we encourage bik Cs on
Main Street and so um we are in the
habit of adding them not subtracting
them um and find that in general we have
a we have a not enough bike racks on
Main Street generally speaking so I
think it's important to consider how how
well they fit within the you know
unloading of passengers with vehicles
and and access to the to the property
and so we're really conscientious about
where we place them or have them placed
but traditionally they're encouraged on
Main Street um
I'd also note this is a very unique site
those are Majestic and gorgeous London
Plane trees as has been mentioned but
there are only two sites that are like
this on Main Street and the other ones
across the street from it the actual
Trinity property and so I think there's
somewhere in here an exhibit that shows
elevation I think that has a stronger
elevation uh in terms of
the Main Street Frontage and I'm just
going to end up trying to find something
that I can't find uh but essentially I
think the London PL at five feet above
the grade of the sidewalk roughly and by
the time you get to that Northern drip
line you're probably closer to 10 I
would imagine the elevation slopes up so
much that
um you know I've tried through this
conversation and through
previous um the other development
proposals which were also looked at by
Capital to see are there ways to
preserve the London plan tree and still
have a commercial property that you can
access and is you know accessible by
folks with
disabilities um and it's hard to imagine
how you could accommodate such a stark
increase in elevation and still have a
commercial property and so I just would
caution the tree commission against
penalizing a commercial development
proposal on a commercially zoned lot for
trying to be commercial um I think
that's why we have the Main Street
design guidelines I think that's we
understand that none of us want to see
tree canopy loss none of us want to see
the Main Street commercial District
Wither on the vine and so I think we
need to find a a good um a way to
accommodate both a successful economy in
Bexley as well as a successful tree
environment and I do think this is a
very unique site I think that increase
in elevation that goes from the sidewalk
to the north
uh really limits what you can do to the
north of the sidewalk under the current
condition for commercial development
besides just recreating a Suburban
apartment complex which is what we
already have there you know if we want a
main street that thrives that interfaces
that can be accessed by pedestrians
and customers then I think we need to be
cognizant of that um and I also affirm
that I appreciate the rigor with which
you uh hold up the standards of our
streetscape thank you thank you mayor so
um let's go through this uh
and come to a good conclusion so um
we're going to start with number
one pretty much just sets forward the
reasons the rationale for the uh
conditions number two recommends that
the landscape plan be found satisfactory
uh Jim mentions to cross out the a the
second line in a um and B we talked
about um the fact that that's probably
not appropo considering the city of
Columbus's line um we can keep that in
we can ask for soil samples we can ask
for confirmation um from the applicant
from the city of Columbus that they're
uh not interested in moving the line and
they're concerned about or or no skip
the moving the line but concerned about
any drainage into their system what
would what would be the consensus I
think just for the purpose of due
diligence it might be in our best
interest to at least have the city of
Columbus
confirm okay nothing you I'm not saying
you obviously sound like you're very
knowledgeable on the topic but I just
again for the purpose of due diligence
do any is there anybody that disagrees
with that I I believe we have enough
factual information to make the decision
that um we not have a discussion about
it any further I I feel with the so
testing the city did with the engineers
opinion it is a matter of fact not
doable okay
Celeste okay
Dave I agree with Mary okay I also think
that it could be aesthetically pleasing
and not to change that
pavement to pavers so why not do
something to be more pleasing than just
asalt or keep it what it
is I think it's asphalt now is it not
yes it is but you know this is part of
the development that part of the
development is to change it upgrade we
want an upgrade so that's what I would
say okay could it be
concrete
Jim okay
sorry I I'd be inclined to keep it in
because I don't I mean I think all we
would be asking the applicant to do and
I think we can just change fire
department to city of Columbus um in the
way it's written but I think um if they
applicant just comes back to us with a
letter from the city of Columbus saying
you can't do this then we've been told
it if if if we don't get that then we
can study further whether the soil is
permeable just because I think I think
what the mayor was saying that the tests
were done in other hours it was it was
not this exact location clarify correct
who knows yards perable and part of it's
not this could be so if it's Clay and we
want to change it it's it's not going to
be permeable regardless so would it
makes sense maybe to reconsider the
brick I I I think if the city of
Columbus doesn't object to it I think we
would still want to see whether the
underlying surface is
permeable um so can you work on that
while we go on sure okay so chair one
more consideration with that I love the
look of brick I love it I love Granite I
love all those surfaces when we look at
what works well for cyclists does not
work well for cyclists or strollers and
so think about that a little bit too if
the intent is truly to be a walking
biking path it we've agonized over in
other areas just something to think
about okay
that's okay so let's go on to see um we
talked about the brick threshold which I
I think um we can talk about does
anybody have any comments on specifying
the brick threshold on the west side of
the building
so this will um go across the drive
right is that the end it's north it's
north of the sidewalk of The Pedestrian
sidewalk and if you go to gramarcy now
which I'm sure you've done Ryan there's
a brick threshold between gramar SE and
Snap Fitness okay okay it's north of the
sidewalk and at it's maybe 12 feet and
then the asphalt starts and it's really
a great you know uh alert signal for
drivers who are coming
out to notice that there something
different's happening as you approach
That
Sidewalk so given the length of that
drive I think it's important to have
something to alert drivers to the fact
that they're coming to a place where
pedestrians are crossing and having
witnessed um of many times unfortunately
in the city where people are attempting
their right turn on red and fail to
acknowledge um possible pedestrians on
the you know in this case would be what
east or west side that would make sense
to have that and I don't know if there's
going to be any kind of traffic signal
there or traffic light which I realize
may not be part of our committee here
but it just seems like we need to be
thinking of pedestrians in this
particular area and and come up with a
way to alert drivers to the fact that
they're coming up to Main Street plus
like I said the length of that drive is
such that you know people could
potentially have opportun to go a little
bit faster than what they would like up
at gramar se where it's such a short
drive short drive good
point um so is there any disagreement on
that okay then to go on to see two
plantings on either side of the access
road fail that the applicant present a
plan to the trim Public Gardens
commission after consultation with
adjacent residents um so do you mean a
revised plan I'm assuming if the plants
aren't working
a plan a plan to ameliorate a different
landscape plan I think we need to be a
little more specific in terms of which
you write that in j i I was just I do
not want to be in conflict with my
wonderful Vice chair but I feel to um
that it would be unusual for the
landscape architect to consult with the
adjacent residents rather than have the
plan come to the tree commission with
notice to uh adjacent residents that
they are ofing and would come and and be
part of that
conversation so I don't I would have to
ask my vice chair if that would be
appropriate so I was just making a
comment I I was suggesting thata say
yeah no I was suggesting that um having
the line after consultation with
adjacent residents I would leave off
those five words and and and say that um
with uh those of standing invited to the
meeting to discuss the plans but not
have it as a condition of the
motion okay so you take out that and
then I you take out the last five words
right corre and then to answer
Ellen's um concern I would add to
achieve the expected Landscaping
result
okay okay okay we'll go on to D
um respect to the fence at the rear I
I'm my sense is we had all all agreed
that the fence would stay on the
property line as you know spec in the
ordinance and that we would um like to
see a planting plan of that 5 feet 300
width potential
Garden
right we talked about that okay um and
then we will take out this insert
modifications regarding PL in the east
side of the building okay the F and we
talked about f g bike rack so let's talk
about let's just talk about that it's
let's say it's not the bike RS per se
it's what H what happens at the front of
that building so there'll be trash
containers there'll be bike racks there
may be signage how how could we all work
together to have the appropriate
accessories in a compact area so they
don't I it's my word it's an
oldfashioned word dits up the front of
the of the building so there's not
something every three feet which I I
find it a little bit unusual sometimes
we we take um different installations in
every three feet at something rather
than trying to mass it and then leave
open space for
pedestrians so we can take that out but
that's the underlying
intent
okay is that all right with everybody
okay okay in light of the loss of canopy
IMM mature trees um I think two two
parts of this I've heard one is that um
uh asking for Continental to uh donate
to the trees for Beckley fund may be a
little bit outside of the Realms a realm
of uh let's say I'm going to say
transparency because many of the tree
commission members are on that fund so I
think it'd be better in a conversation
with the mayor for continental and the
City of Bexley to figure out a fund
where those those dollars would
go you know how however you however the
the mayor and you all do that I guess to
an appropriate fund to an appropriate
fund okay to an appropriate fund I would
also suggest that if there's an
opportunity for canopy coverage in that
U parking lot plan that maybe we should
hold off in specifying the number of
trees but to say it agreed upon further
time that it be that unless you don't
feel Ryan that there's going to be any
chance for adding shade trees in that
area I think he's added shade trees but
not taking credit for them right in
the did I miss that and if you read the
uh the tree replacement language that I
offer offered um it really we are trying
to get credit if we can do canopy over
asphalt it is in the city and and we are
asking if we can get credit for those as
part of the nine trees so if we only get
three trees over there then we would pay
for fee and L of for the remaining six
let's say that's how about if we add to
this language that basically says
they'll pay this much less whatever we
approve in this in the okay is that good
okay all right let's okay let's go to
the back then
um I I think there was some conversation
about all planning shall be maintained
in perpetuity absent approval by the
tree and public gardens commission and
to Jim's point it was to um set down in
writing uh the conditions knowing that
as to to Jim's point that sometimes it's
hard for code enforcement to keep up
with that and there's also I suppose the
opportunity that the building would be
sold in the new
owners might not be as aware as we have
as we are of these discussions so we'd
have it in this motion is there any
objection to keeping that Jim no okay
then let's let's move on to number three
um you have heard why Jim has included
that uh as part of the motion bringing
to to the
baps um table the fact that there are
these conditions that make it very hard
to maintain canopy coverage and keep
mature trees and so it's kind of an
alert here's an alert these are the
problems that we're seeing how can we
have a conversation about this is it you
know it's keeping these trees you know
in the future going to are we also going
to run into this or do we want to modify
the Main Street guidelines to have more
flexibility that that's really six three
well six well you know
there are just to clarify there's a
number of factors that the that Bap has
to consider as to whether Grant a
special permit one one of the I mean one
of them in cander is does it add parking
that may be enough for Bap they may not
care about whether the architecture is
and design is extraordinary but since we
are charged to comment on the landscape
and see
that's yeah right sorry I just I jumped
ahead okay so Jim knows his Jim knows
his writing okay so that's why that's in
there three a b and c then four talks
about the
um they exceed the
Heights I'm going from a special permit
to a variance right and then five um you
know kind of required the applicant to
gain approval of any modifications to
the
plan so we could start with
three so um I'm not a landscape
architect I don't profess to be one um
and I think the fact that Jim said that
your you know plan is doesn't represent
exceptional design and I feel like we're
missing an opportunity to perhaps have
exceptional de design by doing things
maybe differently than what you
typically do um using plants that aren't
commonly used um coming up with ways to
um educate our public about you know
using other plants instead of those that
are always used and um I for example
like you know I I had mentioned that
swamp Oak previously and and after I did
more research I found that you know the
species that you're recommending is is a
cultivar so instead of using cultivars
can we use straight species can we use
more natives can we educate our citizens
and and I think about if you truly had
an exceptional design in that apartment
complex um you make residents kind of
proud of of the landscape and where live
and it it also encourages people to want
to move there because it is such a cool
place if you will because of the fact
that you came up with more of a Creative
Design instead of using like I said
things that everybody sees you know so
just having a little bit of uniqueness
to the design I think would be a feather
in your cap and perhaps you could be uh
a trend Setter if you will um I know
it's a big thing these days I I read a
lot about it online where cities are are
focusing their efforts on coming up with
newer ways of planting and um like I
said using plants that um aren't
commonly used and give us an opportunity
to see things differently so I just
wanted to add that okay Sheila do you
have any comments on section three I do
not okay
Celeste she has a
good
okay so if I go ahead did you hear I was
no I'm what I I don't have any comments
well okay then
um Jim I mean I wrote it well you I
still agree with it after yeah but you
know we've had discussions so that could
have yeah know I I you know and again I
would just emphasize it's not a critique
of the landscape architect it's a I
don't know I mean it might be possible
within the fo print of this to do
something more as Mary suggests um but
compared you know give when I weigh
what's lost against what's in here I
just don't think it reaches the category
of exception okay so let's go on to
number four recommends that if variances
granted to allow the project to exceed
the heights um permitted under Bexley
ordinance 125 4.14 under special permit
that b up as a condition of the variance
modify the setbacks contained in the
Main Street guidelines either to
preserve ex existing Street trees or to
allow the replacement of those trees
removed un plantings some both sides of
The Pedestrian sidewalk any comments on
that
no I have a comment yes so you know the
more I think about it I'm not sure that
even with a variance in a setb we could
save the street trees so I might be CLI
to strike the first part of that um
where it says I either um either to
preserve existing Street trees or so
would just say to allow the replacement
of those trees removed by planning on
both sides of The Pedestrian walkway
that may not be what Bap wants but I do
think that that would be a a possibility
that given the setback doesn't exist now
I think we talked about last time that
be impossible to plant trees on both
sides right right okay is how does
everybody feel about that I love that
idea on both sides okay good job jime
okay any Dave Celeste
Mary okay you want to can you make those
changes while we go on okay okay number
five recommends that Bap require the
applicant to gain approval of any
modifications to the plan presented by
the tree and public gardens commission
prior to any plantings occurring
straightforward now any conditions okay
then we come to number six that I jumped
to before recommend that Bap and
consultation with the trade and public
gance commission present to council
proposals to modify the permissible
setbacks in the Main Street District so
as to permit the preservation of
significant Street trees and future
construction within the Main Street
District I think the question is you
know number one does it belong in this
document two does it belong as an
addendum for uh future discussion maybe
among the commissions that Bap ARB entry
commission three is there no place for
it at
all probably two as a lesson learn
perhaps so as an addend yes as an addend
with okay
Sheila I'm with that yeah
Celeste mared okay
Dave V is and addendum V is and addendum
okay would anybody rather not see it at
all no I think it's good to acknowledge
because it could potentially come up
again and that way we've addressed it
and documented it okay Jim and you know
um I just wanted to clarify and light of
the mayor's remarks I'm not so concerned
about what happens in the current
Trinity Seminary space I mean I think
there's lots of challenges that anyone
would face if one wanted to do a project
there and I agree about the elevation
but we don't know about the future of
capital and what property it's going to
sell and so if you get on the other side
of
college with the current
setbacks you could lose trees that
construction wouldn't require the loss
of um you know you I think that that you
know if Capital wanted to do sort of a
joint
commercial un University building
project and could build up to the
property line we and we haven't
addressed that we'd be sorry agree okay
so um mayor
yeah Bap isn't routinely bringing things
before Council uh and I I just as a sort
of the way that the flow works we as you
know we're set to uh revise our Main
Street design guidelines and so maybe
the recommendation is that when the city
is in the process of resign is in the
process of revising the Main Street
design guidelines this be considered in
the absence of
any rision happening soon completely
fine with that but not to show off I
believe baps ordinance does say they can
bring recommendations for changes to
council I'm just from a practical
perspective it's just it's not typically
flowing that way and I think that we
know that there is council's about to
adopt a strategic plan that calls for
Main Street design guidelines to
commence next year and so I think we
could maybe work into that okay how
about recommend to beap and Council city
council
yeah okay so um what I'd like to do now
is to just go back here and have Jim
read his changes and um if we can all
stay alert we can um then take a motion
for approval of this
document um so paragraph one is
unchanged um second paragraph
um is um under a we're removing the
bracketed statement under B um here's
what I've done applicant will advise
whether the city of Columbus will permit
a permeable surface in the alley if it
will the commission will further study
uh whether a permeable surface is
practical and
advisable that sound okay with everybody
practical and
advisable the commission will study or
okay so in that case then you were
saying that then the commission would
then potentially
ask right to ask the applicant to do
that
okay with the recognition that they can
always take that back up to these app
because that's the Zone we're in so
okay um so then under
C
two we're striking the last five words
after consultation with adjacent
residents and replacing that with to
achieve the expected Landscaping
results um e is no never been a part of
this correct uh that was a placeholder G
we're taking out
correct H we're striking um in the third
line the trees for Bexley funded the
Bexley communic Community found
foundation and replacing that with um an
appropriate fund that's one change we're
making there and then um
um my language is a little imprecise
here but at the end of that we're adding
uh such payment shall be offset um by
any planting canopy replacing ples
approved by the Commission in the City
Hall Parking L plan is that all right
with everybody yes
okay
um no changes in three or after Main
Street guidelines for taking out um
either to preserve existing Street trees
or um no changes in
five um and then six we're making an
addendum rather than part of this cor um
and
um
recommending um well can I just suggest
that we take six out and put it under
old business at our next meeting since
we're not it's not inherently part of
this and they'll give us time to craft
the language more carefully rather than
doing it on the SL it's an excellent
suggestion okay so that
motion both verbal and Nar and written
narrative is before
you so is there a second to it second do
we have
discussion is there no
discussion all right and call for the
motion all those in favor say I I all
those will P same sign any
abstentions a motion
carries so that concludes our business
for today um we'll be meeting on Monday
December 18th at from 4 to 6 for our
regular monthly
meeting um and Landscape applications uh
that are pending will come forward at
that time as well as uh some of this
business from today so have a good night