okay
or let me get stacy in here
oh wait is she in there
can you hear me can you see me can see
you
and i can hear you you see my head
or just the top of it i see the bottom
neck
there now there you go they give you a
preview larry
that's better
jacqueline welcome
hello
there we go now stacy's there okay great
all right i mean i think if i can find
stacy there we go
oh she keeps moving
i got her moved over oh thank you i keep
getting more and more attendees and
every time i push panelists it skips
down to the next person
all right
are we live or what are we still waiting
to go live we are live okay
are we ready to start then we sure
okay um we would like to call to order
the april 8th
2021 meeting of the bexley architectural
review board
and we will start by calling the role of
the members
ms krosky mr scott
here mr hellman
here mr bardwell here
madame tony here
uh this is the time for public comment
so this is an opportunity for any person
to provide
comments to the board on any item that
is not on the board's meeting agenda
any comments relating to items on the
agenda may be made
by those with standing when the matter
is before the board for consideration
is there anyone who wants to speak on
any matter that is not on the board's
agenda tonight
if so please raise your hand and karen
will
permit you into the session
there are no oh here goes one hold on
um julie sarr would like to speak
okay
okay julie it may be just me
uh folks i just was looking at the
agenda and i
i'm seeing a through e maybe i'm
misunderstanding
um is this different than the agenda
yeah this is this is just the list of
consent agenda items which we're going
to be voting on as a group
oh i see okay apologies i'll step out
okay thank you
okay so i take it we have no other
raised hands for public comment
no no others okay um then the next
uh thing is to approve the minutes from
last meeting move approval
37 wait a second
kathy do you want to call the roll on
that or mrs krosky
yes mr scott yes mr hellman
yes mr bardwell yes madam tony
yes
okay our next item under staff report is
to go through our consent agenda items
so um i will go through and read
each one of these applications and then
we will vote on these as a group
so if you are in the audience and you
would like to
comment on any of these items or any of
these
addresses please raise your hand when i
get done reading all of these consent
agenda item
information then um karen will admit you
into
uh the session so that you can comment
before we vote
so the first a consent agenda item is
application
number b b zap 21-11 the address is 254
stan
berry the applicant is dean wentz and
the owner is phillip and lisa kessler
the second is uh consent agenda item is
application number
arb 21-28 the address is 2434
fair avenue the applicant is brian
zingelman
the owner is phyllis edelstein
the third is application number arb
21-29
the address is 2713 bryden road
the applicant is amy lauerhouse and the
owner are stephen and danielle dankoff
the next application is number arb
21-30 the address is 2467
sherwood road the applicant is daryl
rogers and the owner is chris and
kimberly rankin
and the last one application number arb
21-31 the address is 195 south parkview
the applicant is nathan sampson and the
owner are nicholas and yasmin
yeah yeah yes laid i'm not sure how to
pronounce that last name but
hopefully i didn't kill it are there any
members in the audience that would like
to speak on behalf of any of these
applications before we vote on them
and i think we'd want to make just a
couple staff comments too
yes okay i just want to reiterate that
um
consent agenda items are items that
we're just going to approve
and a group because um there weren't um
either no comments or or comments enough
that i could proactively work with the
applicants
i just want to reassure the board
members that any comments that were made
to me which actually were none on these
which is a first um it have
um they've agreed to we did add some
pictures to 250 for stanbury so you
could see
the whole property it's just the front
porch edition on a very non-conforming
lot
um i think kathy has a comment too on
the
um 2130 um
the daryl isn't it 24 2467 sure wood
yeah sorry i was reading the the case
number okay so
so originally that was submitted under
application number arb-21-30
and within the last couple days working
with
tim at rogers cranach it was determined
that there is
a variance request because the second
floor was
at 10 feet over 10 feet in height so
he had filed a
board of zoning appeals application
prior to this meeting so that
recommendation
that's actually going to be a
recommendation not just simply an
approval of a certificate of
appropriateness i just want to clarify
that i will be linking those two
applications
and there has been a notice sent out two
weeks prior to the zoning board hearing
that'll happen on the 22nd
of this month and as i've mentioned the
staff i will
be recusing myself from that specific
application
great
um if anyone in the audience has any
comments to any of these or would like
to
have them move back on the regular
agenda if you have any objections to it
please raise your hand at this time
okay i see none okay i also will be
recusing myself
from application
uh number arb 21-29
uh for stephen and daniel dankoff so i
don't know that that
changes anything just for the record
great okay okay yes
so do i have a motion to approve these
on a consent agenda
i move second
kathy would you please pause call the
roll yes
uh mr scott yes
mr hellman yes ms krosky
yes mr bardwell yes
madam tony yes
okay the next item on our uh
uh application uh are actually all of
them remaining tonight are
are all part of old business so the next
application
is uh number arb 21-7
the address is 269 south ardmore
the applicant is marika mckeel
the owner is jacob and as elizabeth
garrett and the applicant is seeking
architectural review and a certificate
of appropriateness for an addition to
the rear of the principal structure
and a new garage uh do you want to go
through a staff report
karen um sure this application was
before the board
um in last month
and the board had really um no
just a few comments but probably
comments that would have been approved
with conditions for the primary
structure edition
a few kind of eve lines lining up etc
um the major majority of the objection
was to the garage the massing of the
garage
in comparison to typical massing of
garages in
in city bexley in this residential
area a district as well as
the flat roof and the board was
concerned about ways that
there could be some re look at redesign
to blend the new
kind of modern edition with the
um existing structure
so this is the new i'm sure you all have
looked but i'm going to go through these
are some of the new drawings
the pitch has been added a pitch has
been added to the front of the garage
it is much better in terms of its
adherence to um you know the style
kind of mixing the two styles what i'm
concerned about is
still the massing of it and and i'm also
concerned about
the glazing here and how the light will
bleed both
on this side and on this side into
neighboring properties and how it will
be seen from the street um
but there is that there is um kathy did
you want to say anything about this one
ah
no i mean i i am i i did
understand there was some concern about
the second floor
use which it's not really an
architectural issue
but um if it makes anybody comfortable
we can note that should this get
approved
that it is noted on the building permit
that is
not approved as a dwelling unit
yeah i just want to reiterate that we're
here to look at the architecture of it
um not whether or not it conforms to the
zoning
code and that's something that kathy um
may want to speak to but she's still
kind of working through some of that
with the applicant
yeah as far as the uh cubic feet
there's been some modifications and
typically i like to see a breakdown of
how they get to that number
and it was a sketchup program that was
used so i just have a figure
so uh double checking those is to make
sure but with the modification
because of this one also was found to
have a 10 foot over 10 feet
foot on the second floor and they did
make a slight modification to the roof
that brings it down and has that little
flat section on the roof to get it under
the 10 feet so that
that variance did go away
and i'm just kind of flipping through
the drawing so that um the audience can
see
i just wanted to um just make a comment
not
this is meant to be an objective comment
but
some of these were added very much at
the last
couple days at the last minute so to
speak so i just want to make sure that i
put
all the all the attachments up here so
all the public can see
these were renderings that were
submitted yesterday
um additionally you'll see that these
are some
i i believe that and i'll let america
and gina speak to this but i believe
these are
the response to putting this into some
kind of context with the neighboring
properties
typically we would see a streetscape all
in one but you can see in the
existing structure there is an attempt
to show here
what this what portion of this garage
would
um be visible from a direct elevation
um kind of like in the other houses here
how they have it
so i um they can the architect can speak
to that but i believe that's the
response to needing some context of how
this fits in with other garages in the
neighboring area
a question for staff so this is very
hellman at the
at the last meeting we expressly i
expressly
uh asked for a drawing that would show
the rendering or some drawing that would
show the relationship
of the height of this building to its
forefoot
side yard to a neighboring fence and i
don't see such a display
my i had the criticism of the previous
display which i think is repeated in
this one although the building is
is different that the the rendering of
the garage
from the front shows nothing to the
right but as if it just kind of floats
in space which it does not
it has a four foot property line a six
foot fence and then the relationship
with this building above the six foot
fence i think
uh would tell us
what issues we may or may not have with
the scale of this building so
i am i will express disappointment
unless those drawings are yet to be
shown
i'll express some disappointment and
that not being followed through is
per our request okay karen
um before we get to board comments can
we um
i have the applicant so that they can
make their presentation
yes um i have gina kim here
i'm promoting these people to panelists
um and america mckeel
and i'm looking to see if um if there's
anybody else that is part of this
application oh there's jacob
hold on one second jacob garrett
and anyone else okay
okay we have um jacob garrett america
mckeil
and gina kim if you guys could raise
your hand kathy will swear you in
raise your right hand do you saw me
swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
i do oh
i do sorry now i'm on video i do
hey i do
um so i don't know whether to start off
right off the bat with this but i know
that we have a rendering that shows
the um we'll get to that jacob just
start like normal
okay um so i guess i would start with
just
saying thanks again um to this this
group
i thought last month's discussion was
was very constructive for me
and um i think for for the architects as
well
and we definitely appreciate the input
and the insight from this group
i think what we've tried to do is honor
the guidance of the committee from
last month's meeting as well as the
um the design aesthetic of what we're
trying to do
um in a you know a revised addition and
new garage to
to the to what is my boyhood home in
my current home and so
i'm excited to hear comments on that
tonight
um i would also just i think uh
kathy you touched on it i appreciate it
i don't think we are in a position
to where um any kind of zoning variance
is
is required i know maybe that's not the
purview of this meeting but i thought it
was worth mentioning
um and we were very careful to design
within those parameters
so um having said that i i would
again turn it over to the uh more expert
uh part of this conversation and all
that america and gina
address kind of where we went from and
where we arrived
to uh based on the guidance that we got
from from you folks last month
thank you jacob um yes we we definitely
um listened loud and clear um i believe
we heard
uh we heard everything you said and we
and we um
went in a very different direction with
the garage than we did before
um a couple things i would like to
address is
these are the three renderings we do
have another rendering and as
karen mentioned i guess i should first
say thank you very much
to all of you for letting us into this
meeting and for hearing us
because it was a major redesign and it
did take us
longer than we hoped it would and so
um we have been uploading things as
quickly as we could so i appreciate that
um
we have the wall we have a rendering
with the
where you are standing on the other side
of the wall looking
at the house um i'm not sure why that's
not here
um but in no way was it intentionally to
leave that out
in fact it you can see it a little bit
with the wall
in that one that karen did zoom in on
the front of the house
um and you know we've actually built
the wall you know so you can see that
you can see the side there
um we have built the wall and shown
uh i call it brad's house the neighbor
house the neighbor's house
um on the other side of it for just this
reason
um so there is no reason that we are not
um standing next to that wall and
showing you the house
in this um view right here i do think
that you see
the separation between the wall and the
house
and it is the neighbor's house that's
right next to this one so you do start
to see the massing
and i know in the backyard of the
neighbor's house
it's actually yard and not house so you
would be able to stand there and look up
and this is the reason that we have
pitched the roof
in hearing your responses last last
month that
we didn't want to have that big wall
there
that's also part of the reason that we
introduced the windows
we felt like that was actually softening
that
that wall there rather than bringing the
brick up for sure
um and i know the mix of the materials
was a little bit heavy
so we've also tried to simplify that
sorry to interrupt real quick but in
panel one
you can kind of see your work and that
you can see then
brad's house in the background there
um up to the first rendering yeah the
first slide
um which where do you want me to go the
first
the first of that one so that that was
actually done and i i
apologize if there is a reason that it's
not did you
upload it today um i thought it was
yesterday
but i know that we've been i know that
we're um you know we've been late on
things so i'm in no way
you know suggesting that um
that wasn't here i apologize that it's
not here is what i can say
we absolutely put that wall in there and
made sure that we even built that house
next door
so that we could give you exactly what
you asked for
um on that note i will um
i'm just looking to see if i can find it
um on that note i was going to say we
did address a couple of the other
comments and that is more in the
addition but we've brought them into the
um into the garage as well the um
fascia detail we have stepped the fascia
um we heard that you know i know that
there wasn't a lot of opposition to the
larger fascia that we had
but in keeping with the existing house
we have stepped the fascia where if you
can see my hands because we can't see
anything
there's a great that's perfect so on the
first rendering again
i think if you zoom in on that at the
top right
we have aligned the um
fascia of the addition with the existing
roof of the
uh existing house and the detail
there is the the step happens with
the flat portion of the existing house
is our recessed portion of the fascia
and the detail with the roof
is at the top so we are we're aligning
there
um in a much better way so i appreciate
that comment
um we are also um
yeah and the connection is also
addressed so they're much more aligned
um and i feel like that's a that's a
better solution
okay and just to not interrupt you but i
i looked and i don't see anything else
other than what i have uploaded
okay on our website okay um again i
apologize for that
i am i know also that this rendering
should be a little bit more solid on the
underside of that too so i think there
must be
some miss uh misupload
there um so i do you know i
i sincerely apologize it was not
intentional to
to not show that as you see we have
built it all
with that rendering um
the last upload that i have is from
april 6 which was two days ago
and um if i take the time to go through
them all it's going to delay
the meeting yeah i understand um i
believe that there were some more that
we uploaded yesterday i again this is
our this is our responsibility
um on that so i just i just want to say
we completely addressed it we um
have it built there um i'm sorry you
can't see that
if i could share my screen i'm not sure
if that's possible
but we don't have to do that um so
to move on from that um
i think i guess i should
maybe open it for questions i think i
addressed a lot of the concerns from
last time
um we did you know the i think in the
second rendering you do see the roof
we've matched
um done our best to match the roof of
the existing house
um and
so i yeah um i think that's
a much softer approach i hope you agree
karen we got that in an email
oh
and it does it's an overview
and i think it's exactly what larry's
looking for
well i can try to find it in my email
and uh why don't i just forward it i've
got it pulled up
yeah i do all my uploads from the city's
website city's viewpoint
um
thank you kathy
all right
senate there may also
that that is an overview uh there may be
another one that
is the standing there looking over the
fence
um but the overview will at least be
helpful you'll be able to see the
um offset
well um there we go
yeah that's the only one i see there
is this the one you're referring to yes
okay
well
that is
america is that right that's it built
um we have another one i know jacob has
seen it as well we have another one
where you are standing exactly where i
think
um he wanted us to be standing to see
the uh over the fence
is it in a different email maybe i've um
yeah i
i'm not sure
um it hopefully will be emailed to you
in one second
we want to go to other board comments
while we're looking for
those drawings thank you okay um
let's go back to mr hellman later since
we know that he's looking for a certain
view how about we go to mr bardwell do
you have some comments mr bardwell
i will pass it this time you will okay
um how about mr scott
thank you um
well i appreciate the effort and i know
sometimes the uh
working right up to the last minute and
it's uh it can be frustrating for
times like this to get all the
information presented that you've been
working on so
yeah i think we only can review what we
see
so that's kind of where we're going to
be at um can we go to the
uh more of the packet maybe the first or
second view of the packet
yes
is that so yeah that's it that's it
that's the view i would like um
you know sorry
in massing if you if you were to strip
off all the detail and just
carve these out of wood i think you've
made a little mini me of the massing of
the main
house and then through that existing
uh garage structure extruding the glass
on top
and i think matching the roof line i
understand why you do that did that and
i think there was some comments about
the flat roof
on the previous version um
but to me there's a there's a there's a
a break on the the design of the garage
between the
that the look of that roof and the
kind of glass wrap that i'm not real or
really comfortable with i'm much more
comfortable with the view
of the first page of this packet uh
where the addition
uh the two structures and masking and
even the strength of the roof
roofs really blend well together because
you have a flat versus flat
and i like the fact that um and i i like
the design of that
so there's some details i'm interested
in of like how you're doing that
horizontal slat um i would say railing
or tubing
into the side of the brick right at the
corner be fascinated to see how that
comes out but
um the the overall front of the garage
doors though
and the massing it's to me it's it seems
like a lot of glass which i i understand
why you're doing that
i get the modern aspect of it but the
balance
i i wonder if it's gone too far on the
roof i almost want to see that roof
though i like the form of it i wonder if
that roof wants to be a different color
or a staining seam metal or a darker
color uh it feels like it's
blending too much of the traditional and
i i
i for me i like the the first view
better because it's the
the modern is allowing it to be modern
um
and it's it's kind of being almost like
just tacked on to the existing structure
for that two-story addition
and i do like the form work in the stair
and how it's been carved away on the
garage but
that second the second sheet karen of
that uh
of the kind of just a simple form when i
and i get that you're matching that and
i
and i see it peeking around the the side
of it on the photograph
uh and i don't have a problem with the
scale i think this feels appropriate
on the overall view that i saw
the aerial shot though it's kind of a
hard angle to see it uh
i think it's going to be okay i think if
this was uh
you know not all glass i think we i
don't think we would have much problem
with that so i think there's
it's more of a uh a way of
how you see these materials coming
together and
i'd be interested in a little bit more
detail on the transition
at from brick to glass on the garage but
i think overall masking wise i'm fine
with it i just think the materials of
the roof
to me don't have to be identical to the
house
if we were doing a traditional garage
trying to match materials and i'd say
absolutely but i think you have some
flexibility
in my mind about the material of that
garage roof to be a little bit different
uh leaning more towards the modern side
of the of the edition so
that's all i have i don't know
is this where could i do i respond here
or do i wait till the end sorry
sure go ahead part of the thought was
that i was gonna try and
reuse some of the or well reuse the
slate from the original garage
um and so that was that was kind of the
reasoning for
for the roof there um you know both the
garage roof
and the house roof are slate and you
know
i i have some emotional attachments to
the old garage and i i just
i kind of wanted to reuse the slate it's
still good slate
and it matches the slate of the house so
that that was the thinking on the uh
and to be clear that would be our
standard like normal protocol so
i can't argue that okay i think i think
maybe the rendering is not doing it full
justice of its real materiality
uh and i get that that's renderings are
representational so
i'm not saying i object to it i just you
know i would be open for
alternate materials but uh i'm okay with
lean slate if you're going to be able to
reuse the slate i have no
no objection that's the idea thank you
um
a couple things that i will say that um
you can see a little bit right here
um there is an intentional offset uh
between the brick and
the windows so we have thought about how
it all comes together
and there would be a shelf and that will
be not necessarily a detailing nightmare
but i understand water
so you know i understand what that what
challenge that brings to me
but what i want to make sure we do is
you know those windows will be there
there will basically be an entire brick
uh shelf with the windows set back that
same thing
happens with the way the um the wood
slats
move around they'll be set off the brick
and in the back
it's hard to see in this um in the other
rendering but you can start to see that
the slats
let's say if the corner is here the
slats actually come in
uh set not right on the corner they come
set in so it would be this a similar
offset to that so
we have been very thoughtful with how
everything comes together it's part of
the
um i guess part of what how it took us
so long to get here um but i but i hear
you on
on how everything comes together yeah
and i think we would agree that
it's the details that'll make this
successful um and i have i mean i've i
was like i've seen your work and uh
like the style you know the way that you
do connections it's
um so i i have confidence that those
will be worked out i just know those are
important
important transitions to make sure they
get right understood
agreed
okay uh mrs krosky would you like to go
next sure
um i agree with a lot of everything that
uh mr scott has said uh i do
uh want to wait for the other rendering
that i think is going to be pulled up
potentially
um but i will say this um i saw
on the documents um as i was looking
through them that
you know the the height of the garage uh
is
pretty consistent with what was there it
or at least
with this dash line that i see on the
documents it says location of garage
um so it i i like where you have the
brick the height of the brick around the
garage and how it's aligning with
you know windows um
i think detailing wise it's going to you
know
the devil's in the details and i oh
there we go that's
that's helpful um i do have some
concerns with the amount of glass
um but perhaps the owner can speak to
um you know how they feel about it um
i just would wonder if like neighbors
like you might just feel too
on display um and you know
perhaps maybe you might not want that
but
uh perhaps you can speak to that yeah i
mean
i'll be using it as an office and um
yeah i mean i probably will be riding a
bike up there and uh
so that's that's on me whether you know
i feel embarrassed about
being on the bike i think there would be
window treatments
um you know personally i think
that we would you know put some window
treatments in there so
for for if we felt like there was a
privacy concern the way
you know the way it's set up is you can
kind of see up into it it's a little
diff
more difficult to see down just because
of the height of the
windows i i personally
like the idea of letting a lot of
natural light in there i don't i'm not a
big
you know i prefer natural light over to
over um
you know incandescent or whatever we're
using these days
um personally so that was
part of what the thinking was there um
i don't i don't uh i don't feel like i'm
too worried about
somebody seeing up in there i don't know
if i'm addressing what you're asking
exactly one thing i'll add while we of
course had that conversation with jacob
and elizabeth um
is with the perspective of it we've also
introduced lower or talking about lower
furniture
the desk will be at desk height and
therefore you can sit near the window
but as you know on one uh which you know
may not play out in the plan but um
we've got you know like kind of like an
island um location where you know you
could have coffee or tea
and right off of that island is a
built-in bench
on the other side of that um i don't
think there's ever
a time when they'd be you know setting a
table up there so we didn't we did it
more for
you know maybe that's a place to sit and
watch a movie or something
but everything is set a bit lower so
that when you're actually sitting
you are seeing straight out of those
windows and because of the perspective
no one's
actually seeing you when you're standing
of course that's a different story
okay um let's go back to mr hellman
now that we have this view
i i i
i remain concerned that there's not
a drawing that's from the rear again
the two renderings show this floating in
green space
i've said that before it doesn't show
the alley in the back it shows a field
behind the garage
and i don't believe those give any true
interpretation
of the scale issues that this building
is going to have this drawing doesn't do
it either because it's from the front
uh there's at least nine feet of
building wall
and an additional five feet of roof that
will be over the fence
and this building will loom over the
alley i love the house i think the
addition is well done
it's well articulated uh and and it
it it ties in so well with the
traditional architecture of the main
house the garage to me i believe will be
a mistake
and i'm sorry uh it will be a scale
mistake
it will loom up above the alley and i
think it will
it will change the tenor of that
neighborhood and i don't think that's in
our
best interest to uh to accept that
we do have another rendering to separate
this application
i would vote for the house but i would
not vote for the garage
we do have another rendering from the
back
yard but again again if this is
i've asked gina to send the model link
so that um
if uh karen i know this is asking you a
lot we could continue on
if there's another way there's a way off
screen for you to see if you could open
that we may just be able to see
everything in that model but it could
uh depending on your computer mac or pc
not not the capacity of your computer it
may not like it
so um larry
and and i respect where you're going
with those comments i would just say
that
the existing house next to us looms over
our backyard because of how it's massed
up toward the front of the street
i mean to a certain extent
we live on ardmore and this this is the
nature of the lots i i'm not
i'm not trying to argue your opinion
here but
but like we all see into each other's
backyards that's that's how it is over
on this street
i i would guess my argument would be
it's one thing if it's a house it's
another thing if it's the garage
and if you go through the rest of the uh
the rest of the street
and the rest of the alley this sets a
very difficult precedent for us to deal
with as an arb
changing the entire scale and the rhythm
of these alleys in these lots
without question this is a lot on this
on a basic central
uh bexley lot it's a it's a nice slot
it's a good sized lot
but this is a lot of building on it and
it just changes the character and the
scale of that
and as uh since that's a valid part of
what architectural review is all about
uh the the scale of the neighborhood uh
and its balance and its compatibility
uh that's just a real concern and
there's the rendering i'm kind of
looking for
even though if that's a it's not from
the ground view but then
you can see the relationship uh how
above the fence this is that it's a it's
it is hugely above the fence so i'll let
the drawing speak for itself
thank you okay i mean my
my only response to that would be this
will be the
i think fifth fourth or
fifth two-story you know
or what elevated garage what we want to
refer to it
in a two block area on ardmore as it
stands right now but the vast vast
majority of those
are dormers coming out of a pitched roof
they're not this
okay so just so i can kind of refine
what i'm hearing is it the visibility
from the
side because we have a we have a pitched
roof
um with what would kind of be to
consider dormers on the back which are
away from the property
is it that visibility there along the
fence line
the the ones that are the same the ones
that have been in play
the roof slope would begin where your
brick line is
and go upwards from there and then set
back from the brick line
three feet four feet would be a dormer
and it's a it's a different look it's a
different scale
and and oftentimes those are done in
such a way that the dormer is on the
alley
or in the front not to the side so that
the
so that the neighboring residents don't
have
windows uh overlooking their backyard
okay i mean mr hellman i will
to speak to the dormers um you know we
did talk about that we
it was brought up last week uh last
month um
and obviously we've done something of a
dormer on the in the interior you know
on the yard side the main house
doesn't you know it's so simple and it
does not have a dormer
and i i know we you know we had a flat
roof before and we understood that that
was not you know that was not a bexley
garage
um to introduce dormers
only for um the sake of
giving this space height was not
something that i was
interested in doing because of the
design and that is because that's just
completely
a third element you know we've got we've
got the traditional house
we've got the modern edition and i think
there's a lot of us in agreement that
those
work well together so in taking those
two pieces
we really did not want to introduce a
third um
completely different element i thought
that that would be
uh very much not in keeping of the
design of this house
but the price paid in my mind is the
scale it creates a pretty massive scale
to be able to achieve that design
objective
and i i suspect there probably are ways
that it could be done differently
and still be invoked with the main house
but we're not here to design it i'm not
here to design it my point is
this is a very large building on a small
lot
that looms over the neighboring
properties and the garage
i love the house thank you
um my response to to to that not not to
you
um was you know i didn't want to bring
the brick up and this is just in general
for
for everyone else um i i you know i i
hear you
and if we had brought the brick up and
therefore not had the windows there
um i feel that that that mass would have
been read
more even more um and so
that was a main reason that we kept that
brick down um
and did introduce the windows so not
only because the
garrets want the light but also because
you know
if it feels lighter while i understand
their windows and and that feels
uh hard to many that's that's really
this
you know that we've got this beautiful
floating roof um that
that mimics the uh the existing home
blending in slightly with the um
you know peak of the modern edition in
the rear
would you consider moving this
assemblage further into the inside of
the lot to get it away from the fence
i understand and i thought about that
with your comment
um the number one reason that we didn't
just attach the garage to the home
is because the garretts want their their
backyard
they want to be able to use their
backyard and they've actually designed
this house so that we're
focusing very much on indoor outdoor
um both of these elements allow them you
know
allow them an interaction among the
three
um and so you know we could have done a
lot
more we could have made it you know it
would have been part of the addition and
i think it
essentially i think it would have made
things a lot easier if we had moved it
and just made it an attached garage but
that is definitely not something that
the garretts uh
would like the whole focus on this
addition and renovation was to have
the backyard to use for their children
hopefully grandchildren someday but yeah
that's the idea
okay let's go uh mr bardwell do you have
comments yet or do you still want to
pass i will simply say that mr hellman
has
articulately stated uh everything that i
would have otherwise said
okay
she's frozen she is frozen
well while we wait for her to unfreeze
is there anybody in the audience that
has anything
that they would like to say i um see one
uh mary um schloppy did i say that right
sorry yes very good congratulations you
did great
thanks so um we live at 277
south ardmore um we need to have kathy
square you in
oh that's fine thank you please raise
your right hand
okay do you somebody swear or firm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
yes thank you okay
so uh joe and i live next door to the
garrett so we are 277
south ardmore so we are directly south
which means if you face their house we
are to the left
so if you um wanted to show
see our house you could see it so we
have a very traditional home
but um i will tell you we are very
excited about seeing this edition
and the garage
in on their on the garage property
just looking at the new layouts
i i think the windows definitely soften
up and make play the garage
plays off the back of the edition and i
think that
doesn't make it as much of a box so i
think it
does soften it any improvement
that is done on this property we welcome
i mean
they've always kept it really nice but
um
you know as far as usage i we understand
that they want to go up on the garage
and we're okay with it um
you know i think it's up to the group to
decide
when it's not appropriate to build up
and it
starts intruding on the property
but i really feel like this really
they both play off one another and
looks like great living space and it
helps our property so
we are we think this is fabulous
just say you know i'm having a lot of
fun with this thank you thank you for
your patience karen
it's a great program you're already
better at it than i am karen i can tell
you that
well i would hope so i mean no offense
but
um karen can i ask a question
i'm sorry can i ask a question yeah
okay probably um really quickly i i
um suzanne's house has lost power
so i feel like we may want to um have
somebody step in and
be the chair because
it's probably not a good idea for me to
to run in kathy
step in we know peter's got the most
experience
but regrettably i lost internet about 10
minutes ago
and i'm on broadband right now so i'm
probably not a reliable partner
either it's not storming here so i'm not
really sure
uh if it's the wind or what but um
chairman
because of um a power outage
so i i really feel pretty strongly that
any of you could do this so if i could
just have a volunteer to
finish running the meeting could she
call in on her phone
um she's trying let's see
i feel like i should say thank you mary
for the comments
around especially around us keeping the
house up i appreciate that
yeah i think that um everything you've
done is very thoughtful
and you know you're enhancing the
life of your family and it it needs an
update and um
so no we we uh really commend
all the due diligence um that your
architect has gone through we think it
looks
i think it looks fantastic
thanks
karen and kathy while we're waiting is
there anyone else
uh with their hand up who would like to
withstanding who would like to speak to
this yeah i'm already i already asked
that and there are no interviews
but thank you no additional ones okay
yeah
uh krusky did you have a question
oh yeah i i just wanted to ask um
the size of the currently designed
garage as opposed to the original what
like what's the footprint
is there any footprint change there's a
slight increase so that they can
actually get their cars in
um it's uh three it's about three feet
longer yeah and that's what i was that's
what i thought i was sort of
poking around google earth looking at
the whole block
and the reason i asked that is because
i'm looking at
um you know the whole block and and all
the different garages there every single
garage on the back other than the house
that you see to the right
of this residence has a garage like
right up on the alley
and while this one's popping up taller
than
probably the most there um the the
garage actually directly behind you is
is huge um compared to what
uh this one is going to be so i guess my
point
in in asking you this and what i'm
saying is that i
i feel comfortable with the placement of
your garage
on the site and what you have done in
terms of the height of it
and where you're aligning things so my
personal opinion is is i don't
have an issue with any of that based on
what i'm looking at
you know online here thank you
okay i'm back karen i uh i'm sorry
everyone i
completely lost power and then of course
the computer had to reboot and
everything so
um so has everyone given comments
yes and okay
i have a question
um for you america
um first i just want to say i probably
should have picked this up
in the in the application and i
apologize that i didn't but
i i do think it's a good thing that it's
a
slate i i would think i would not be
supportive of an
asphalt shingle on that and i think if
you're using the slate i think it's a
good
tie-in what i'm wondering is did you
ever think about
um doing a heavier black
um kind of a the window frames
to kind of tie in just thicker to kind
of
tie in more to the not too much but
they're very thin from the street i
realize that they're not
that thin but it just seems like
that visually it might
be something to consider i
i understand um you know the goal was
was lightening it yeah or you know
keeping it feeling light and
a lot of times those heavy window frames
like that corner right there do start to
get
you know feel very heavy on the when
they're too many so
i guess our goal was really just keeping
it light um and
the into the corners would be the same
as the addition and the windows the
intention would be that it was the same
as the addition and i understand why you
put this um
this uh trim board here um in gray to
match the original but i don't think
i think making it black would that might
tie it really i agree i agree with that
yeah we we're probably going to repaint
the trim on the
regular house too um so there
there would probably be some intentional
intentionality about what picture or
sorry what color we chose so that
it matched um it needs to be repainted
regardless so now's the time to
well i'm actually not talking about the
original because you can do that without
coming to the board i'm telling you yeah
sorry
i i know i i just meant like we probably
would tie it all in
but i think i like the black idea it's
better in black
on the on the ground understood
especially with that corner right there
it would definitely bring that in
it the roof alone is enough to kind of
pay homage and the brick
to the original house that putting that
that board in black would now match this
and i think it's
great
um i'm going to go ahead and give my
comments about
it at this point then and if there are
any audience members that want to speak
on behalf of this
um to have standing um please raise your
hand and when i get done then karen will
admit you
um so i i actually think your designs
are amazing
i i think you're um you're like even
your outside stairs i typically hate
outside stairs but the way you've
wrapped it in the
wood slats i think is really um a great
idea
um though i'm i'm just somehow can't get
100
comfortable with the massing of it
and i guess i'm a little bit concerned
that if i'm your neighbor
i just feel uncomfortable because
all of these traditional bexley houses
even though they have windows everywhere
you know they always
they're usually not very big and they
usually on the sides you know there's
lots of window treatments and so
you just don't sit in your backyard
sunbathing and feel like somebody could
be watching you
or you know and i'm worried that the
windows on that side
of the house might feel a little bit
uncomfortable to your neighbors
and i i wondered you've got the wood
slats
along the back of it would you consider
taking the wood slats
across the windows which might become a
nightmare somehow but maybe they could
be lifted to clean under it or whatever
just to give more privacy to your
neighbor
i think so yeah do rotate it because we
have it on two windows over there
um you know to do a little bit of that
um so i mean you know i can't i can't
say 100 with jacob but um we've
considered putting it on
on more um and so you know absolutely
if that i i think it would look fine
um i would probably prefer to put it on
two more
because then i have the corner glass
wrap around
versus it just ending something
different on a corner that's that's
kind of my aesthetic um i think that
that does it
that's a continuation of the slots would
continue around the corner the glass
would continue around the corner
um i think the other thing that we could
do um is we could make especially
with the slots like i think that the
slats moving two more would be nice
the other thing we could do is behind
those slots uh we could also make that
um a translucent glass rather than
transparent
so it still allows the light in that
jacob wants
um but it does you know give them a
sense of privacy in there i guess but
also
you know the neighbors feel like you're
not they're not you know it's just that
one corner
the northern exposure anyway so from a
light lighting standpoint that's not a
huge sacrifice
yeah yeah and i mean i can you know i i
know how it is you you may
see that um i know how it is to live
with a lot of glass and so i completely
understand
that sometimes it's really nice to have
you know to have that covered
so i think that's a i think that's not
even a compromise
i think that's a good solution yeah i i
think i
just personally would be more
comfortable living in it
or on the other side of it if there was
a little bit more of a screening to it
so
um i don't know about the translucent
that i wouldn't make you go that far
but i you know just anything to give
something that it makes it a little bit
harder so that if you're sitting in
there or sitting in your backyard
you don't feel like you're just you know
looking at each other yeah
yeah okay um so do we have any um
anybody else in the audience karen that
was standing that wants to speak on this
or
just the same speaker as before would
like to make another comment
mary hi thank you um susan i think you
missed some of what i said
um about the renderings and um i
i appreciate your concern we by the way
we live south um we're at 277 south
ardmore so we are just
south of the garrett so if you face
their house we're directly to the left
and so we will see most of you know
in the glass if we you know want to um
we actually are outdoor living space
we just added a patio to our backyard
which is actually tucked
uh behind our or to the side of our
garage south
the south side of our garage um and we
purposely
did that so that we felt that we had our
own little privacy
in our backyard because we do have a
small
footprint we have a very large existing
home dwelling
so we we have tons of privacy and then
our other outdoor living space is our
front porch
so um we don't
uh we don't feel offended by
the open glass um and
you know it's it's just we don't feel
like they're going to be intruding on us
and i don't think they feel the same
about us
if i'm understanding you you are not the
blue house uh and stone house
represented here you're on the other
side that's correct
that's correct so yeah honestly there's
so much space in between their garage
and your lot line that you're not the
one that i would feel worried about but
i'm a little bit worried that if they're
standing up in their space
on the second floor that they're
literally looking
right down into the yard and that if
you're
like i said sunbathing or anything back
there just you would might feel a little
bit awkward
yeah i would feel awkward just doing it
myself so i don't know
so um yeah
i mean we have a we have a fence we're
we are very
it's all good i mean we we have all the
privacy that we need
so thank you so much
mr garrett have you spoken to those
neighbors
yeah so brad's actually the one who
recommended america
as as our architect um and
he's familiar with what we're doing abby
as well abby actually offered to pick
the window treatment
if it helps but uh um
they're they're totally familiar with
what we're doing i if i would have known
that it would help
to have them called in call in tonight i
would have asked them to do that
um i don't want to say that they've been
with us every step of the way
on the design because that that would
not be truthful but they're they're
aware of what we're planning to do and
and um you know they
they recommended america because of the
sort of design she does
and and i and because of the way i
described what i was looking for from
the addition
and the uh newer garage structure so
not you know this not only would this
not be a surprise to them but they've
been supportive
but but that's me talking i mean i i
in hindsight i wish i would have had
brad call in but
or or abby
well and even if they wouldn't mind the
windows i think a little bit more
treatment on that side isn't a bad thing
um
even if they said they liked it so i
think that's something that we should
do two more of those windows with the
slats i
that's i think that's an easy answer
yeah i would agree that even
notwithstanding the privacy issue
the more black the darker with the
trim board in black would tie it more
it would visually um
just go better with the it softens it
somehow that it's not such a hard
understood yeah so i'll definitely go
for that
okay okay um
so i think we are to the point where you
can ask us
if you want to move forward with it for
a vote if you want to
push it to next month what would you
like to do
well and i this is where my
uh my i'm a little naive to this process
i mean
it what's what's the preferred method
here to come back
with these changes or to
put it to a vote pending or with the
understanding that we will make these
changes how do i
i have one question before we go there
is it um there's been talk about this
um karen i know we talked about it at
some point
um is there a way to um
do a separate vote on the house versus
the garage it sounds like
a lot it sounds like we have a lot of
people that
are in favor of the house the addition
um
at least that would i don't know i think
that would
yeah i mean i i think it would make
everybody more comfortable if the garage
came back next month just to show the
changes
um kathy talked to our city attorneys so
she can talk about
how to separate them yeah i'd like to
comment on that because
um if the applicant wishes to
file the same design next month they
they may want to withdraw it and
submit it on its own application if they
want to submit the same
otherwise if it's voted on and voted
down
you would have to resubmit a new design
you couldn't submit the same design
kathy can forgive me but uh when we're
referring to it are we talking about the
total currency
they're only the garage okay we can't we
can't table part of this and just
approve part of it
if it's voted down you know she would
have to
withdrawing the garage from this and
then applying on its own
application so that's a matter of
additional
that that just all that does for you is
let you get started
with the addition so if time is not
really
of a huge essence you'll save yourself
another application fee if you
table the whole thing and then just come
back with the garage changes to make
sure everybody's comfortable
if you're in a hurry you can withdraw
the garage
ask for a vote on just the addition
and then file the garage as another
application
completely separate the only difference
would be that you'd have to pay another
application fee
yeah i mean so it's it wouldn't be the
application fee issue it's
that if we're gonna do construction
we're gonna do it all at once so
it i don't know why we would split it up
and resubmit and do a new design
especially because if we come back next
month i don't know that there's going to
even be a terrible amount of discussion
around the
edition so in the interest of of you of
your time you know i don't think that'll
it'll be 30 seconds probably and then
we'll
we'll deal with the garage i i
sounds to me like better off just
withdrawing and then the tabling sorry
tabling
and then resubmitting with the changes
to the garage
and probably getting um the
fine canops to to call in as well and
voice their opinion and i'd like to
make a point as well you know as a
zoning officer
you know even people installing lights
in the city that are
shining towards the neighbor you know
it's a problem they have to be
you know directed down has there been
any
discussion regarding this being used in
the evening hours where
the light pollution could possibly be uh
you know a concern of the neighbors or
maybe a neighbor that isn't aware of
that's what was happening
um how how that could be addressed
i mean i wouldn't think it'd be any
different than a garage with dormers at
that point or anything
like that i mean or a house that
like you know the back part of their
house overlooks our back
garage i i don't know i mean so
well and i think if we you know which we
will come back next time with more of
the slats
on the sides so i do think that at that
point we will probably have
uh well definitely more than half the
glass um will be
shaded by that by those slats okay
i just want to throw that out there
because i always get those calls
and and you know if i've got you know if
you're interested in any concerns that
would come out of it
you know it's always nice when i can
work with neighbors on
things like well and i and after the
fact yeah you bring up a great point i
i agree with you you know lights shining
out are
um just evil um and so in that way you
know
we would we would have recessed lights
in here we've designed that
um wouldn't have any you know there's no
reason to have a lot of light
in fact we put the lights in the ceiling
so um
in that way they wouldn't be kind of
yeah
light obviously will will illuminate the
space but i don't think that there'd be
any sort of spotlight or any sort of
even
even light within that window line that
would that would um
be an issue but yeah america i have a
question for you how much space is
between the
the lot line and the side of the garage
i believe it's six feet
okay so if down the road the house sells
the neighbors that turn over whoever and
there's a problem
there is enough space there to plant
something to create a hedge
i mean i know it could it could take
years but literally little trees or
something could be planted through there
to really give much more of a break
with the city yeah there's a there's a
tree there now
actually um i need to trim it because
it's over on our
side of the fence but but yes
and and that could be something jacob
maybe you can plant some trees back
there you can just cut them
um until so that you get the the glass
and then when
your neighbors change and they don't
like it you can let them grow
but let's do check the dimensions i um
i thought it was four feet i hope i'm
wrong six feet helps
it's six i just measured it the other
day larry with the tape
so yeah jacob jacob is the measurer so
um i'm 100
sure about that then yeah but that
reflects on the drawings
yes well i i don't think they had
dimensions
on the drawing and i i was recalling
four feet
but i mean unless their fence is on our
or yeah fences don't always dictate a
property line
wow but this is to the yeah
may i interrupt and suggest that this is
exactly why we should table it
and come back all the correct
measurements
with the design um though they may be
minor changes that's a matter of
perspective
um get all this stuff worked out outside
of this forum
and i don't mean to be like rude but we
have people waiting to hear their cases
too understood
okay before we
bring this to a vote i i do want to
commend both marica and jacob
for conducting yourselves very
professionally over the past hour i know
that this is bound to have been
a real challenge to you uh undoubtedly
uh with some frustration
you have both represented yourselves
and your uh design commendably thank you
thank you thank you
okay so to move on it looks like we're
tabling we're asking
you're going to ask for a table right
correct and you feel like you're clear
on what you need to do what you need to
show in the next
um by the next meeting so that you can
get it passed right
i hope so yes a week ahead please
no no two weeks ahead thanks
yes yes thank you thank you both very
much okay so
uh cathy do we need to vote on that
tabling or
yes if uh so there's a motion to table
uh
so ms krosky
yes mr scott yes
mr hellman yes mr bardwell
yes madam chair yes
thank you okay we will see you back here
next month
uh thank you so much thanks folks thank
you very much
okay moving on to the next application
it is arb
21-18 is 394 south columbia the
applicant is john b hall
the owner is joaz and julie soap so
i can't talk i'm sorry the applicant is
seeking architectural review
and a certificate of appropriateness to
demolish an existing structure and
replace it with a new
single family home
okay
give me just a second to open everything
up
um and i'm really going to turn it over
to john to mostly talk through it
there were there was um no huge
objections to this
demolition and a replacement structure
at the last meeting but there were
several things that the board members
had asked
for the um for the applicant to produce
to for support um and i i think i'll
just
hand it over to john to walk through
those um
let me let him and anyone else that is
um
the applicant or the owner into the
room just a second
okay we have john b hall we have julie
tsar
um is anybody else here to
represent this project raise your hand
but i think that's everybody
okay if you raise your right hands kathy
can swear you in
you saw me swear for the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
i do
is that just john is julie in julian
you are muted thank you we do i do
thank you
okay you ready for me to start yeah you
know what document you would like up
i mean here's the center yeah once you
start with that letter we're all anyway
i
maybe we could go right to the streets
here but
i i made a list of five of the five
items that
um the board asked for last time so i
just
i'll just knock right through the five
items first was the streetscape
so what we did on the streetscape is we
uh
um of course all my young staff members
said why don't we use our laser scanner
so you which i'm like too old for this
stuff but um
so the laser scanner does a very
accurate
view of all the houses so i think this
is what was
uh just you know is about as active as
we can get
um the so our house
uh is as proposed as
almost exactly the height of the peak of
the house two doors down two doors to
the south
and it's seven feet lower than the white
house
the new white house uh further down the
block that
the next one down um and we didn't draw
the house two doors
uh we didn't quite get that in the scan
two doors to the north but
i i do believe that house is also taller
than the proposed house
so uh and
we are showing a house one foot taller
than i requested last week but if we
i'll explain that more when we get to
the site plan
the next item the next attachment
is the
is the survey so by meijer surveying
so um if you can scroll to that
i put this in because we've had this for
a while we actually been using us for a
design we didn't submit it last time
but you know all the questions about can
you
can the city go back and check our
grades so
all our grades that we're put that we
have on our proposed cycle
are referenced from the from the grades
shown here
and there's a the great thing is there's
a benchmark
on the fire hybrid that's right in front
of the house
so there you know so all of this
can be completely verified anytime
during construction after construction
whenever you need to
absolutely uh the next item is
uh the site plan and i just want to kind
of
explain why we are asking for one more
foot and
the i know can you blow that up a little
bit
uh or maybe i can on my screen um
this the the the the 783.0
uh grade
at the side of the existing driveway is
really the critical
grade that we're dealing with so if we
leave this
is existing driveway which i think would
be a good great for the neighbor because
this allows us to make to really not
disturb
the whole south side of the parcel
that that that separates the driveway
from the neighbors property line
so starting at 783 we're just going a
quarter inch a foot up to the garage
door
so kind of a fairly minimal slope up to
that garage door
and then setting the uh finish floor of
the house
from that from
that uh that grade so we end up at seven
785.33 which then brings
our peak uh up to uh
four feet above the existing and all the
calculations are down in the corner of
this document
um so luckily we had
we had we had asked the surveyor to get
the peak of the existing house
so um so this all should be extremely
accurate based on that survey
and john the extra foot you're asking
for is already represented
in that elevation that you presented
first yes absolutely yeah
that is that is the extra foot already
shown on there
um the um
and i guess one one other thing to point
out on this
if you scroll down a little bit is you
know uh
we're going to scroll up i guess i'm
sorry
but yeah you know the the slope of this
lot
is basically you know the this east side
is fairly
somewhat level and it slopes the slot
slopes
to the north west
so uh keeping that
keeping the finish floor at this level
is fairly important so that we can
that we can uh take the groundwater
around both sides of the house and not
push the groundwater
into this this inside corner that's in
the back of the house
so i i think it works pretty well
uh and our
grades are and you know
we are in the front we're higher out of
the ground in the back
we're lower because the back rate is a
little bit higher
i don't think it's a kind of all
reasonable reasonable
relationship to grade
okay i think then the landscape plan is
very straightforward it's by oakland
nursery and
um we are keeping
a lot of the existing
trees and
supplementing with with their plan here
and then the uh the last piece are our
exterior materials which
show which you know you could see on the
elevations
but um we had
the root uh dimensional roof shingles
uh the stone is this shoreline blue vein
which you know
i'm sure everybody's familiar with uh
pellet contemporary series this
contemporary series really the only
difference between this
and well i would say the only difference
but the the main difference between this
and the standard pella unit would be
that the the uh the window sash a little
bit smaller and get a little bit more
glass
out of these and the um
we're using hardy products for the board
and
endless and the shingle siding
so i try to knock out
all the comments we got so i hope we
covered everything
okay do i have a board member that wants
to go first
just one question uh is uh
john is this going on has this been
scheduled for the tree commission on the
landscape plan
uh no not yet yeah you might talk to
susan
or elena uh staff and and so we can get
it on this month that'd be great
that that would be a condition of this
approval as recommended by
staff yep okay larry do you have any
additional questions or concerns that
you want to
while you're talking no no i think um
i i think from the previous review
your comments i i think the words i used
back then i found this kind of
rich in materials and rich in details
and just pleasing to the eye so i i
i think this is just a well done
application it would be a
great addition to that street
okay uh miss crosby you want to go next
yeah i don't have uh any issues with any
of uh what's been presented
and i think uh the documents show
everything really
clearly so that's it
okay uh how about mr scott
yes karen can you go to the uh
3d scan
hold on you find that one
i'm looking the
which one the streets
okay sorry i didn't hear you um
fantastic that's all i have to say
uh we need to find out how to get that
done
with your permission i think we need to
use this as an example
i agree um but you know you know what i
found interesting is i feel like the
trees
are very important and in getting a
sense of scale in the neighborhood and
it even surprised
me on this how how important the trees
are i left the trees that we were that
are going to be in front of the house
just
because i wanted to see how they looked
with the with the building
you know the graphic nature of it is
also pretty interesting to me but where
i'm actually using more 3d scanning
during the sunlight hours and
it's this is great it's great to see the
accuracy is unmatched you can't you
couldn't measure this
i think the building overall the
building design is fantastic
i love the character it has a
traditional but also kind of a modern
sense to some of the areas so i
i think it's a great job i think the
materials are right in line so i have no
other comment other than thanks for the
3d skate
yeah you're welcome okay mr bardwell uh
just a quick question while we're on
this
view uh john i have likely
overlooked something but uh
my understanding is that there is in
fact only one house
between your property and uh the large
house to the south
and this shows two what what am i
misunderstanding in that
now this is they're they're
to the south there are the there's a
radner's house next door and then the
next one and then the white house so
this
this is exactly the this is this is the
scam so this is accurate
i and if i maybe confused you the
there is a larger house see the little
red house next door
there's a there's a larger stone
house to the north right there
that didn't come out in the scan but
it is quite tall that house
and then beyond that is that very large
broad house
that that has a very broad street
presence
right okay
thank you i appreciate that now i'll i
will simply
echo the comments made uh by my
colleagues i think you've done a very
fine job
thank you thank you
that leaves me right um i just have one
question
did you ever consider a slate roof on
this house i know on the last test you
did
they you went ahead and put slate on it
is that a consideration here or are you
well we have to you know i the only
thing i think
is you realize that's a hundred thousand
dollar idea i do
yeah so okay so i know
it's a fabulous idea and and uh
my last client went for it i i just
think it's a
a pretty unfair ask right you know i
think
of course everybody would love a slave
roof you know but it
might not be uh it might not be a fair
ask for a
architectural review board it's asked to
consider is what it is yeah well we
will definitely consider it and then
we're gonna
we're gonna set up a gofundme page yeah
i asked to consider the last
time john and we got one so we got one
yeah
yeah yeah we got one well you never know
would you approve it as an alternative
that's fine you know
yeah that would be awesome we would
definitely approve that i would actually
do that as a staff change no problem
okay um there is one audience member
that would like to
test tonight um jody weston
oh two and carolyn allen radner
yes please if there's anyone else in the
audience that would like to speak on
behalf of this please raise your hand
okay we have two audience members um
kathy you could probably just swear them
both
together okay raise your right hands
please
do you solemnly swear or firm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth
yes we do thank you
um let's start with jody yeah this is
actually david west and we live at 399
south columbia
um which is basically just right across
the street from
where this house is going to be built uh
i i
like to echo that we do like the scan
view and and uh
really wish this was in uh effect a
couple of years ago for that house
that's on the right side there
uh of the stream might have saved us all
a lot of problems uh
we we do appreciate uh this
architectural design for the house
we think it's gonna be great we're gonna
we're looking forward to the
extra construction traffic because we're
almost done here
uh it'll be nice to continue that for at
least another year
um you know i missed uh to the to the
stars the only thing
uh i just please we please don't let it
end up like the 424 house
uh in any way shape or form uh
and we're looking forward to welcoming
you to the neighborhood
thanks
um mr or mrs radner
yeah thank you karen um the house to the
south of me is the furman house that
is an existing house um
we are supportive of this plan um
particularly since the roofline is going
to be
the same as the furman has which we've
lived with
for 38 years and they're preserving you
can all almost see the oak tree
um that's that is on the two sides of
the property right to the right of the
garage with which they're preserving and
um in the um hemlocks one of which i
planted
on their property to screen their house
and that's a whole different story but
this house
uh is a is a beautiful build
we know that they will build it pursuant
to this streetscape and this plan
because we know the tsars and we know
bee hall
so we're extremely comfortable and in
fact
enthusiastic about this build
because we know it doesn't have to be
this good and we're proud that it is
this good
that's all
that is all the attendees that would
like to speak to it
okay do i have a board member that would
like to make a motion on this
application i'll move for approval
i'll second
and i would like me to read the findings
of fact
sure oh okay okay
uh the findings of fact and decision of
the board for application number
arb dash 21-18 for property located at
394 south columbia the board finds a
certificate of appropriateness
should be issued noting that the
house is architecturally compatible with
the neighborhood
with the following conditions that it is
approved in substantial conformance with
the plan submitted and reviewed at the
april 8
2021 arb meeting
two no trees can be removed until a
landscape plan has been approved by the
tree and public garden commission
and three demolition cannot happen until
the construction plans for the new home
are approved
sounds good we can take the roll role
do we want to ask the applicant if they
understand that as
becomes part of the record
yes i uh we understand acceptance
that the findings a fact okay
so i've got bardwell as making the
motion and mr hellman
seconding it and i'll take all the role
ms krosky yes mr scott
yes mr hellman
yes mr bardwell yes
adam tony yes
thank you thank you thank you thank you
okay our last application for tonight is
arb
21-22 the address is 2764 dale
the applicant is amy lower house the
owner is xu ping lin
and the applicant is requesting
architectural review and a certificate
of appropriateness for a two-story
addition to the rear
of the existing home
whenever you're ready karen
oh sorry um
hold on a second i'm opening up
everything
okay this application was before the
board at the last
um hearing
um we had a lot of discussion because as
amy can speak
of herself herself this is different
from this is a little bit
unique for amy's design and we took some
time
to give some feedback and the new
revisions are based on the board's
feedback things that
we talked about are you know heavy
materials actually coming down to the
ground
so that they while they are modernist in
the approach
um it still respects the materiality um
i'm really i'm gonna bring up whatever
you'd like amy and then you can walk
through
your changes
you just let me know what you'd like
great um
so let's let's can we swear amy oh sorry
i forgot
please raise your right hand do you
solemnly swear or affirm the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes thank you um if we can bring up the
uh um revised elevations
um so yes
nope those are the original ones sorry
hold on it's okay i know there's a lot
of uploads
there we go um so
the so yes as karen said i
i took the notes that we had discussed
at our last meeting
uh mainly the to the two notes were
the use of the stone on the edition um
as well as the detailing of the front
porch and the connections and how the
beam works
as far as the stone if you remember last
time
i had some vertical stone elements
and i have changed those to
reflect more of the heavier stone on the
base of the addition
so you can see here on the garage
piece the stone is now across the base
and that line that is the the change in
materials
then lines up with the change in
materials on the front of the house
um and then if we flip to the next one
um the same idea here where we're
having that heavy stone on the base
the second thing is as far as the
patterning and massing of the addition
since it was stepped back in plan
i i raised the end
piece the elevation on the end piece so
that it was in line with the with the
main garage
piece um so that the reasoning is so
that that
center section that connector section
was the only piece that read lower
um lastly if you go
back to the upper elevation the
renderings
um i changed uh
the way that the front porch is detailed
if you remember last month i had
kind of panels of translucent material
now the whole thing is translucent and
it's really detailed
more almost uh very simply almost more
like
a pergola type structure um that will
have
black uh um hardware connecting hardware
um and then a very simple beam that goes
across the front
um and no um it's not i removed the
columns at the back of the
of the porch that were engaged in the
house so that it really
um separates itself from the house and
reads as its own
individual feature the last thing i
i did which karen if you can flip to the
one that says color
um i can't see all your
yeah there we go so i always hesitate to
do color because it never is the color
that i want it to be
um but this was something that we had
talked about at our last meeting
and this is trying to
um reflect that the we kind of have a
pattern here of stone and stucco
on the main two pieces and then
the the stained cedar wood
on the connector piece and the back
piece
um so that's that's what this is
representing as well as
all the trim and the window trim
will be like a dark
bronze color we're trying to
blend with the existing stone and stucco
that's on the original
house and and keeping everything in that
earth
tone range
i think that's everything i had on my
original list
okay so i would be happy to answer any
questions
okay let's go to board members um
miss mr scott
starting off um
well thank you i think it's much
improved i think uh
i'll start at the front entry i think
you know i'm really interested to see
how this turns out because i think it'll
be very unique
um i think you're you're right to take
the approach of making it
much more of a pergola and very s and
very light
in its uh the plane of the roof
obviously the structure is structured
but i think that that type of an effect
uh through the entire front canopy will
be more successful than panels within a
more of a traditional roof so
i'm very interested to see how that goes
and i think that's a great move
the the the redesign and the on the side
and rear i think is also
much more successful i would argue
though that the
the the massing that's at the back the
further most
back left of the uh the garage large
doors
i i would kind of want to see that
actually aligned with the uh
the transition piece uh it feels a
little and again it's hard to see
them not in perspective but it feels a
little out of balance
in this elevation but i mean it wouldn't
be
it would be balanced in real life i just
it's hard not to see the 3d so
i um if if karen if you go back to the
original elevations
um that's how i had it originally
there you can see the stepping of the
roof
um and so i i actually
like that better um to have that end
piece
the roof be step the same as the
connector piece
i think with the design moves you've
made on the garage and how you've you've
redesigned the stone
work i think that'll make more sense uh
in the massing of the project
it allows the thinner mass to kind of be
the focal point
uh and then that that end cap will be uh
you know it has obviously almost four to
ceiling glass
right almost like a screened-in porch
feel uh and i think that
it just wants to step down just a little
bit i think it will also help
uh the the rear of the house and then
whatever yard is remaining to the alley
or to the
to the property line so that would be my
only suggestion i think everything else
looks great
thank you
okay let's go mr bardwell
uh i will pass if i may
okay uh mr krosky
i am fine with everything that i'm
seeing
okay mr hellman yeah i think this is
uh this is pretty my only thing would be
and this is so minor
um on that elevation there on the west
elevation
uh the the the big window
over the garage i'd be curious how that
looks
if the bigger the on the front wind of
the the center window
uh that the crossbar is lower and on the
side windows the crossbars are higher
it's just a just a tweak i'd be curious
as to how that looks but obviously
that's
that's really up to you
are you talking about right here yeah
[Music]
just just from a point of balance i
think would be an interesting
just to see what it looks like talk
about minor that's about as minor as it
gets
and i also agree with pete about the uh
the far the far left uh part of the run
yeah that does look really nice when
it's the same as the middle piece
yeah i think so too i agree
okay i'll go then uh so i totally agree
that the back of it should step down the
way that it was before
my struggle a little bit is that i feel
like there's too many different window
ideas going on
from the one in the way back to the one
in the middle
section with the two that kind of flank
it to what was on the original house
and then like on the original house
where the windows sit
on the table of stone and then on the
edition where they're above
i when i went back and looked and then
here in the back
they come all the way through it i feel
like there's nothing consistent with how
the windows relate
to the stone um when i went back and
looked at your images amy at the houses
that you were kind of using
as a model i notice that when a house
breaks the stone they typically break it
or if they sit on it
it just sits on it so like if you look
at this image on the bottom right
the windows come right down and sit on
the stone table each time
and so i feel like maybe for me it would
just feel a little bit better if it was
um more consistent one way or the other
and it might mean that you're just
tweaking
i don't know one of the windows
yeah the windows are tough because we're
trying to maintain
all the existing windows in their
openings
for cost reasons um so
what i tried to achieve was sort of a
a combination of squares and rectangles
that you know some of them are squares
some of them are rectangles but they're
all
in that sort of similar proportion um
you know certainly on the west elevation
the existing windows
on that on the garage side there will
sit on the stone
and i could do the same thing with the
windows
um above the garage door potentially
or maybe i just raised the stone a
little bit
that was going to be my suggestion is to
look at the stone this the stone in them
and in that modern sense that stone
doesn't have to continue with
that all the other lines of the building
it could raise up right
right and i would also look at the
windows left and right of that main
center window of the garage
uh maybe those you know maybe you're
picking up some of the square windows on
the
existing house so okay again i i would
agree with
uh okay
i think that would really carry can't
help the character of the modern look if
with lowering this and hiring the stone
would be really nice i think so too
so that that that would be my um
my only ask and and in other
um applications like this i appreciate
your attempt to do a rendering
um but i feel like
it it still doesn't really give us a
feel for
colors and stuff like that is there a
chance that you could do like more of a
computer
or something that really shows the the
colors
and because you're talking about like
black um
details and stuff and i didn't really
pick up black details
in your rendering so
that's why i don't love using color but
but
um it it's tough you know
i will have to say that you know john b
hall has a much bigger firm and i'm a
social sole proprietor
and um the renderings take a long time
to do um so it's a little bit more
challenging for me
but i would say that that i just hired
somebody that's young
and the goal would be for her to help me
do that in the future
um so i i don't have that capability
right now
um but i'm hoping to have it very soon
so i guess i would just ask that this
kind of state
um that you stay in contact with karen
on this then to kind of
go through all those little details of
colors and
because i i like it worries me a little
bit when you talk about those connecting
pieces being a dark black because
that feels like then you're drawing
attention to this big clunky
um you know metal attachment piece that
i don't think is the most important
thing when you're trying to
create a you know a really soft kind of
uh look there over the porch so i guess
i would just ask that you keep working
with karen through some of the details
uh and some of the finishes just to make
sure that it all gets um
worked out nicely yeah and i'm fine to
do that i just want to clarify
that the connector piece and the back
piece will actually be stained
stained wood they will not be black
okay so where were you talking about the
black uh
there's no there's going to be no black
oh the only black thing was that
was the um porch connector p
the connectors the metal connectors that
are on the front porch
these yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's and
that's what i was saying is that i
that worries me a little bit that that
black connection piece could end up
being kind of heavy
um if there's nothing else black on the
house so
again without you know a
a good rendering to really see how all
those colors come together
i guess i would ask that you just stay
in touch with karen on some of that
absolutely like even on this image to
the left you know that
i don't see that metal as black i see it
as more of a
steel color and just something that's a
little softer
it's it's a galvanized so you may want
to consider using just galvanized
yeah yeah you don't want to you don't
want to get this into a craftsman or
uh you know that's i don't think that
that the heavy timber
feel here you want to keep it light and
airy and i think galaxy
right yeah
yeah mr bardwell did you want us to come
back to you or are you
i i would like to hear if there are any
comments from
uh anyone was standing first
okay if there's anyone in the audience
with standing that would like to speak
on
this application please raise your hand
and karen will admit you into the
meeting
there is no one
in in that light i i will
simply offer that amy you have
earned a wonderful reputation with
this board over many years
my challenge with this particular
application
uh is uh i would be taking an
awful lot on faith because i
simply don't see it my
colleagues have spoken to materials and
colors
uh i would offer that it goes well
beyond that
to uh how this is viewed in three
dimensions
and and my sense is uh to do a simple
metric is uh not a herculean task it's
something that uh most of us were able
to do by
first year uh in architectural school so
you you leave me in a very awkward
position
because i stand to be
very surprised by the way this is
actually constructed
based upon what what i can see and what
i cannot see
in what you've presented
i'm not quite sure how to respond to
that yeah you don't you don't need to
respond i
i i i simply am compelled to say
uh that that it places me in a very
difficult
position because i don't know what i
would be voting on
i'm in a meeting okay
okay um so
i guess at this point amy how would you
like to proceed
um i think i would like to proceed with
the vote
okay
do i have a member that would like to
make a motion on this application
do we have findings in fact
yes i'll go ahead and read those
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number arb
21-22 for property located at 2764 dale
the board finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued noting
that the
addition to the principal structure is
architecturally compatible
with the following conditions that the
northernmost
section of the addition be lowered to
meet the same ridge height
of the connector piece and that the
stone be raised over the double garage
door
and final design details are subject to
further review and approval by the
design consultant
yeah we also asked for some
reconfiguration of windows
i think it was just a suggestion
right and i guess karen could follow up
on that on any
yeah i'll certainly look at that and see
see how it looks
once i raise the stone up yeah
uh is there a board member then that
would like to make a motion on this
second who made the motion
jocelyn thank you
and i'll call the roll uh mr scott
yes ms krosky yes
mr hellman yes
mr bardwell yes
madame tony yes
thank you very much thank you amy
thank you
i have that as the last application for
tonight
yep is there anything else that we need
to
no but i just wanted to um make sure
because it's the only person i the only
project that i didn't um speak to
and i left a phone message because i
couldn't get through
is the um daryl rogers project and i
noticed that he's still on the attendees
along with tim shamwon who's also an
architect there
and i i chatted in them i chatted to
them you guys probably all saw it
because i think the panels
are included but i see that they're
still there so i just want to make sure
they realize
that their application was approved in
the consent
agenda daryl yeah if either
if you want to speak please raise your
hand and we'll admit you to
maybe they just wanted to hear the rest
of the hearing but
i wanted to make sure or maybe they just
didn't turn the meeting off
that could be also okay okay
okay with that we can adjourn right
yeah great okay thank you
i'll send out a doodle tomorrow for a
next week um
workshop okay thank you all
thank you thank you good night good
night
okay
you