thank you
this one's good
[Music]
so we have um two items tonight that the
applicants are um
have asked that their applications be
tabled to the may
12th
2022 arp
um i wanted to go ahead and announce
them now because somebody might be here
to speak to them and then we'll just
table them as a group
um they both have apps to be tapered
um they want it on their own they want
to collect more information and have a
better application for next month okay
so it's application number arb 22-7 the
address is 933 vernon and it's
application number arv 22-14 and the
address is 908 grand
yeah they're both um requesting
that their applications be tabled to a
date certain which is may 12 2022. so we
won't have to notice them but if there's
anybody in the audience that came for
that
you don't need to stay those two
applications will be before the board
next month
so do i have someone that can move for
approval of those two applications to be
tabled so removed
second
scroll
yes
okay the next item on our agenda is to
approve uh
the items that we have as consent agenda
so i will read these applications and
then if there's anyone in the audience
that wants to speak about these you'll
have a chance to um give us some
feedback before we um vote on that and
madam chairman i think we should do them
in two groups the arb
and then the b zap one is uh approvals
and one is a recommendation to these
they're in order
okay it's application number arv 22-2
the address is 2785lbs
number arv 22-8 the address is 789
vernon
application number arb 22-9 the address
is 736 vernon
application arb 22-10 the address is 387
north drexel
application number arb 22-11 the address
is 250 south parkview
and application number arb 22-16 address
is 216 north roosevelt is there anyone
in the audience that came here to speak
about any of those applications
okay seeing none so we have all looked
at those applications
right
yeah okay so we have all reviewed those
cases and um what few suggestions we
have given to karen have been given to
the applicants and will be made
and so we can go ahead and vote to
approve those applications is there
someone on the board that will move to
approve those
so moved
seconded
yes
okay and then the next group is to uh be
forwarded to these app
application number bzap 22-9 the address
is 2455 east main
application bzap
22-11 the address is 783 francis
these app 22-12
addresses 844 chelsea
and b-staff 22-13 the address is 2220
east livingston
is there anyone in the audience that
came to speak about those applications
sure
please come forward
kathy will square you in
that's my green
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth not sure yes
ma'am did you also wish to speak um this
is my husband my name is mary ellen
forrester
do you solemnly swear for the testimony
yes
can you tell us which application you're
here to speak about
uh it's in regard to the 2455 east vain
is it
an opposition to well i we have some
comments i guess we'd like to make
go ahead and um finish the motion for
the other ones and put this back on the
regular agenda
fine
you want to call us back up or yeah
we'll just have to put them back thank
you all right fine thank you
yeah okay so on the other items the
other three
uh these app items do i have someone
that will move to approve those three
items go forward to these apps
submit
second
yes
okay
so let's go ahead and clear that one
first
so just so
okay so we're going to go to um to this
consent agenda item first and um
is the owner of this property or someone
to speak about the property here
okay um
so i'm gonna have karen give a small
staff report on that project and then um
it will have the opposition uh come up
and then you can come up and then we'll
all look at it again okay
okay um this application is um a
recommendation with the application
requesting a recommendation to the board
of zoning and planning we are here just
to look at the architecture um the the
architecture really isn't changing much
at all from what is currently there now
it's just i'm going to let the
applicants speak to the application of
it but it's to the
they're asking for a
permission from the border zone new
planning it's going to need a i don't
know catholic variants or use
permit it's not relevant here but what
we're here to look at is how just
putting glass into what is already the
structure that's there
for those of you who don't know the
property 2455 east main it's cafe simple
it's been a pretty well received
addition to have that
outdoor patio and the applicant is now
asking to be able to put
glass panels and what's already there
to for
to make it weather tight and so that
people can use it
i guess
implement weather do you want to come on
up and be sworn in and you can speak to
that
yes
yeah it's uh
952 square feet it's currently has an
awning over it it's a permanent awning
that was approved previously
and they'd like to enclose it with some
glass
and it's a pretty neat
glass system that slides up and down so
that air can move through
it's just it's a very successful
restaurant and very small
so
they would like to excuse me she's
trying to make take advantage of the
outdoor patio space which she keeps very
well maintained it's right there on the
main corridor and she does really well
with the landscaping and the planting
and keeping it clean
and she just would like this
uh there's a cafe istanbul in dublin and
they have a similar system
and this is almost identical to what
they're doing and these are the pictures
of the one that's existing that's
correct
in dublin i drove by it the other day um
that's very similar right there
do they stay up all year uh yes
yeah
is there anything else that you want to
say about it that's it
okay
so just to remind the board in the
audience we're looking at the aesthetics
of this
not
whether or not an indoor
structure should be
allowed that's the that's the zoning
plan
thank you thank you
go ahead yeah come on back up please
um my wife and i own the duplex uh red
brick apartment building uh just
immediately south
of the uh istanbul restaurant
um
[Music]
there's there's always been parking
issues there right now we our tenants
my son lives there they they have
virtually no on-street parking because
the istanbul takes a parking
in addition uh we share a sanitary line
with the istanbul
at one point our duplex was oriented
onto main street and they actually
reoriented it onto facing onto euclair
so they could build a gas station
use a frontage for gas stations so we
share a sanitary line
there's been two major
blockages of that line that have
resulted in flooding in the basement of
the duplex apartment building
as recently as a month ago we had this
issue
i guess we've got some concerns in
regard to
um if you have a year-round use like
what is being planned uh it will
generate obviously more traffic it'll
generate more patronage to the site
which is good for the restaurant but
that also uh impacts us in terms of our
sanitary line um and i guess we want to
make sure we've got some reassurances
that we won't have these problems in the
future
um
[Music]
the parking issue
is what it is uh we've sort of given up
on ever having on street parking because
of the restaurant
um but the sanitary issue is a major
issue with our tenants we thought they'd
have to vacate the building it was so
bad
the issues with the uh
utilities uh service lines that would
actually be a city issue if there's
anything
connected to the the city main lines
that are causing that otherwise it could
could also be a civil issue between the
two property owners
it's not typical that you have a shared
line
but but also i'd like to point out the
fact that
this isn't an increase i guess it's just
used more
more
days of the year but not necessarily an
increase in what the use of that's
allowed right now yeah it'll be year
round
right right now it's really a seasonal
issue okay but it might be an
engineering issue that we need to
investigate if the the city the city
contacted them after the most recent
issue
and uh we had some phone conversations
with the city indicated they were going
to require them to clean the line every
quarterly
but we want to see that in writing
it was a major issue for our tenants and
that's that's actually not a board issue
but i'm i'm more than happy to field any
emails or phone calls so that we could
get something in writing well
i think the issue for us is that the
enclosure
will be a permanent increase in capacity
uh that that the restaurant can serve as
as
the gentleman said it it's it's a small
internal space what 900 some square feet
whatever he said
and that
we did see the change last summer
with the uh
covering
to over the patio
which um anyway but this will really
increase it's a capacity issue
that now the capacity that the
restaurant can serve is is going to
double triple i don't know and and we
don't think that
uh
that site can accommodate that kind of
capacity what's the parking
plan right now we never have any
available parking and so what is the
parking plan for that so
here's what i'll say ma'am um
this is not the right board for all
your complaints are probably great and i
understand them totally but this is the
wrong board for it so this board really
only looks at the architecture um i
would suggest you come back to the um
the bees app because this has to go
before their board also which ford
bezack is the person just architectural
review and b's app is a board of zoning
and planning
and so they can address parking and they
can address uh some of the other issues
between them and the city
they can address your issues but this
board only looks at the architecture
but we see that as as really cementing
the issue in terms of capacity well
and with what you've expressed
i would offer if you wouldn't mind
sending me an email
to kathy rose here at city hall and i
would be happy to
field or reach out to
the owners
to figure out if there's something that
needs to be arranged in writing an
agreement or something going forward but
it's not a board issue but it's actually
a city issue and i'm happy to be
involved okay try to get that
accomplished maybe even before the board
is owning a plan okay we just found well
anyway we're just concerned that once
this gets approved for the enclosure
then
the result is
a tremendous increase in capacity and
that's a very unique situation to share
sanitary life with the commercial
development and multi-family so
your
concerns and issues are i agree with the
chairperson tony they're they're totally
legitimate but this the the place for
those is at the board of zoning and
planning in two weeks
okay so are you saying that this won't
necessarily just approving the glass
doesn't necessarily this is not an
approval at all it's a recommendation
recommendation we don't
all we're doing is passing on a
recommendation that can be either in
positive or negative
um but we just give a recommendation
to to the board of zoning and planning
on
basically if they approve it we're okay
with how it looks okay so
and is that on the agenda in two weeks
yes it will be but reach out to me in
the meantime to see what we can get
worked out that could be a condition of
that approval possibly okay you'd like
to meet with us in the next couple weeks
yeah reach out to me if you would please
okay
all right we appreciate it we appreciate
that okay thank you thank you thank you
so we need to vote then on that um
that item application bzap 22-9
2455 east may
the applicant is chris valette the owner
is matlin holdings incorporated and the
applicant is requesting a recommendation
to the board of zoning and planning for
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness to place
glass panels on the existing patio
awning
i will call the roll mr heyer yes
ms krosky yes
mr hall yes
madame tony
yes
okay and then i also just want to make
sure that everyone in the audience is
aware that um we only have four four
board members tonight and so a quorum is
a vote of approval by three of the four
of us so you just need to know that
before
um we've moved to a vote nothing so
okay the first item on the agenda then
is old business
the application number is arb 22-1 the
address is 501 north parkview the
applicant is jonathan
and yama that's right totally butchered
that and i'm sorry
uh they are requesting a an
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a sun
room edition
aaron do you have a quick synopsis of
that i do this application has been
before the board
i think it was tabled once and then
before the board at the last meeting um
the project is
first of all the site is a very
interesting site and for those of you
who don't know it's i thought it is on
parkview and while the property does not
and that's up to the riparian setback
and while
what they're doing does not affect that
and can't be please china if i'm
butchering this whole thing but what
they're doing does not affect that
doesn't touch that
um there was
a lot of concern at the last
um board meeting and from neighbors and
i um and even mayor kessler went out to
see
how the slope um
[Music]
was situated and how the dirt work is
being done so that erosion was taken
care of part of this application
included some stonework that
as i recommend as a recommendation from
the board not an official recommendation
but at the last meeting there was a
request that i take the landscape
architect out that the city's landscape
arctic consultant the owners were lovely
about it we all met and i think it was
incredibly productive we um talked about
the fact that the stones that are in the
proposal
um probably are not the right kind and
the reason i'm explaining all this even
though we don't do landscape
as part of this approval we have and the
owners have agreed to this as staff i
would i would recommend that any
approval for this project is conditioned
on the owners working with
our landscape consultant elena andrews
and they're very willing to do that as
soon as they're sworn in i'm sure they
will testify to that on a landscape plan
that will both make the property more
usable protect it from erosion um be
friendly to the neighbors i mean there's
there's a ton of issues i wish you could
all go back and see it because it could
be it's going to be a gorgeous site um
we're here though and i and i tell you
all that because i think it's really
important that we you understand why i
want this condition attached to it um
it'll be beneficial to everybody
um the the edition itself is actually a
quite simple addition um there were some
structural concerns that some of the
boards board members have um
we have we now have a
section of the roof um through
the east west
no north south access it shows more of
the structure i can pull that up um i've
been back there several times i'm
confident that i can work with the
owners to answer anymore to help them
through any more
drawings or finishings that the board
may require i'd like to get them on
their way
it's a fairly simple addition it's a sun
room and a storage area
and they have agreed to
do finishings on the bottom floor which
is a storage that will match the rest of
the house no exposed concrete
block
um trim paint everything will match the
house exactly the roofing material is
what the roof was done i believe pretty
recently so that will be easy to match
um
i feel pretty comfortable about the
structural concerns i think some of the
board members might still have some
questions but i think it's good if we
would call the owners to
come up and present and talk about
anything that i may have missed
can i have you both
state your names
nana egbo
you please raise your right hand you saw
me swear from the testimony you're about
to give this evening is the truth yes
thank you
can you just go through the changes that
you made since the last meeting um just
to help us with the amount of time
rather than going through it all again
can you just explain the changes that
you made since the last meeting we had
the architect uh improve on the drawing
for for
for
for the roof
and it was central house which let me do
it
so
explain the roof
the roof looking for it the roof changes
[Music]
i think there was some discussion
regarding how the structure comes
together that the water will shed
properly not creating any issues
okay so
are you asking karen to show specific
drawings of what you changed yeah we had
to show it yeah the last time we were
here yeah the president really had
requested another show
that is uh this is the gable roof
drawing so um that's not the correct
drawing i called the designer
okay okay so this drawing is different
from what you had
but you're still you still aren't
showing a roof view
uh an aerial view down on the roof to
show how all those roof lines are coming
together
unless it was old
that still doesn't have the roof line of
the of the new
section added
so there's just an elevation
[Music]
yeah so um do you have anything else you
want to say about
i mean like from what architect told uh
he said uh basically these are issues
that can be they can fix on-site when
they when they uh
no that's not how we approve projects
i mean i know it's difficult for them to
draw it on on the paper but
as far as making the roof on it on a
house
that that small
so it's difficult to draw on the paper
because it's a very difficult roof that
you're trying to build and that's why
we're asking to see it
so i mean there's no sketches
to explain it
that drawing isn't even correct you
don't have a roof that goes straight
across like that
you have a hip roof that goes up
it also may be necessary for the permit
building permit and that's that's what i
was saying i'm okay working with your
designer to get the drawings to permit
level
but
but this isn't there yet we can't just
do it on site
okay we'll go okay that's fine if you
want to work with him as far as getting
into approve comment that's that's fine
that's up to the board i guess we're
confused about how
because we've gone back and forth with
the
with uh james our uh the guy who's doing
all these drawings and i guess i i'm
i'm not understanding exactly what is
going to be seen your section here
number one shows asphalt shingles on a
very on a flat rough
it just sort of continues up and goes
flat so all i see when i look at this
section
is a flat roof that does it's not really
showing any drainage or how water is
going to get off of it
and it's not sloping enough to use
asphalt shampoo correct
and then i look at the eave and then i
start to wonder how you're venting this
whole air space um i notice you have
roof vents sort of place
on top of the roof but
it's got to be able to pull air in order
to circulate air through that space so i
just don't think
all the details in how this is coming
together has been thought through
and as
it was discussed you know if you do a
roof plan where you're looking down on
it you can show those things and we can
get a sense your designer can get a
sense of what they need to deal with too
so now the issue is him not being able
to draw to the point where you guys can
see it that's what that's required to
show
don't show like your
your roof planet you showed up here with
just the simple gable and everything
just shows the one roof it doesn't
really go back far enough
to show how it would tie in and then i
think you would see how these valleys
appear that they might start to be
created you've got a valley coming down
right in the back of this and then
these two roofs coming together and
that's that's really complicated
and i don't disagree that kind of
creating maybe a little flat spot up
there is you know might work
but in the same respect you got to get
the water off the flat
i don't think it's going to be a flat
roof
[Music]
that's what he's drawing
yeah and some of this comes down to
when it's uh actually drawn on the
drawings
and it eventually goes to permit they're
going to be looking at those drawings
even more
uh critically so when we're bringing
these things up
it's because we know down the line when
these are submitted for permit to the
city they're going to really scrutinize
them
and and also you know things that we're
telling you are things because we don't
want you to have a bad experience right
we don't want your
like a flat part on your roof to leak
right so those are you know that's why
we're bringing them up now
okay
i think i think the whole thing is the
architect perhaps not he's not able to
show it properly on paper but now i'm i
mean i mean i've been in this field for
a long time so in most cases when i see
a blueprint
on site i can figure it out
you know but as far as putting on paper
it might be difficult to put on paper
that's true in some cases it has to go
through our building inspector to be
permitted that's why i'm saying you know
i'm at the point where i i can meet with
him and talk him through
how to draw how to do it but
that i'm and i'm okay with that okay but
well it's not my decision it's the
board's decision
but it has to be drawn and it has to go
to our building inspector it can't just
be done on site
i mean i i've been involved in this on a
very global level so you know with the
yard and everything else so i i'm i'm
okay with working with your designer
that's fine that's up to the board but
but i can tell you that i have the
prerogative to bring it right back here
if we can't get to a solution and i'm
not sure that the board's going to give
me that
that flexibility anyway
that i'm just saying that if they do i
wanted conditions on a lot of things
yeah i mean i'm okay with you working
with him as far as
getting to the point where you can
actually draw it out and show to the
boat for approval
i am too but i'm just saying i've been
working with him and i can't like i i
was trying to explain to him how to do a
section
line to show us even where the cut is
and to do the whole thing so we can see
a better correlation exactly where we
are
in in a i i just haven't gotten anywhere
we want to know that that flat line is
not a flat roof but in fact maybe a
ridge that slopes this way
but but it doesn't show us that in these
drawings so the overhead would show that
there's missing information
can you go can you go scroll up to the
roof plan again right there uh no next
cheat up next sheet up
zoom in on that roof plan in the corner
so what's missing here is
an overhead of the sunroom right so
there should be a triangle here
okay
and then there should be a line
that goes back this way for a ridge
okay
so there's a triangle that goes here
right for your hipped roof and then
there's a ridge
and then what happens between this ridge
and this surface you have to have
another line coming down
and that leaves you this whole area
where water will collect
okay
that's not that's not like no that's not
that's not that's not the idea and
that's not what he drew though he didn't
draw that
because
because the if he's showing a flat roof
there's no way to get a flat roof in
this area okay
yeah it all slopes
from that point
yep
right
but the water the water
all the water
this roof right here shipping water down
into a valley
and it's just
right but you need to you need to slope
that which means that you would see
another v
you would see another v of like a lower
sloped metal pan that would be right
here
that's all that's all it would take
but we have to show it on paper yeah
yeah and that's not uh that's that's not
just us that's you have to yeah
yeah
i mean
we're guessing
yeah yeah i mean
that's just an idea i mean as an arb
member i can't tell you how to build
your house but i can give you an idea of
what we're looking at that's causing
this problem
so
uh
you know substantially this is the same
submittal that we saw last month except
for a section that
does not give us any clarity
so at this point
does the board capitulate
and say
we we will put conditions on this for
approval
or do we
in in other words the approval or the
condition that the addicts be vented
properly
that the
hand flashing or the juncture of the
roofs is is solved
prior to
how does the how do we deal with that or
do we ask it do we ask that it be tabled
again to see it next month and the items
you're asking us to hand to karen we
don't normally hand her you know she
takes up the last two percent
and what you have left here is 15 or 20
that hasn't been drawn so this is not
what we would normally hand to karen to
do
um and i'm sorry that your person is not
drawing
what we need but
it doesn't change that what we what what
we usually see and then what you need
for permit is still the same
okay
so i mean i don't know how the rest of
you feel but if karen wants to take this
on
i see a lot of work
in her future
to try to get all this done because we
specifically asked for this the last
time and if you went back to your guy
and he still didn't draw it
that tells me that
this could be a fight so
i don't know
everyone wants to take it fine with with
me but i i wouldn't define sir
i mean it doesn't matter to them
whatever the board but there's also
conditions of of landscape-ish items
that have to be addressed as well so i
think it may as well just return with
a complete package
i'm not going to do the work so if i
can't get anywhere with the
okay i would ask that it not come back
to the board until there's substantial
changes to the drawing because this
whole conversation
we have 10 items on the list tonight and
we have all spent hours and hours this
week giving our time to review drawings
and
i just would ask it not come back to us
unless if there's substantial change
so i guess
one issue we have had is we
and i understand the frustration but
we've also been very good
with communication
and
trying our best on our end to
to work
within the bounds of what bexley says we
need to do
and then finding out on monday or
tuesday before this meeting that
we need this and that and that and we're
scrambling all day tuesday wednesday
trying to
figure so our guy isn't in communicating
we're we're doing
well i'm just writing everything i ask
him okay i've copied you on all these
yes yes so you know and he's out of town
as a problem he's come forward with some
of the engagements
in
he's been working on this not it wasn't
just tuesday and wednesday i mean we've
been meeting and talking and i respond
right away to his you know and explain
to him i need cut lines so i can see
where this is taken from
exactly to your point i couldn't figure
out the flat
the flat
portion
um
so
you know
you guys have been great to work with i
think that the whole and i asked him if
he could be here tonight yeah no he's
like he's actually out of town
all right
the person that is doing your drawings
is the missing link here
so i mean like you said i mean as long
as you can work with him and show him
what what you're like you're an
architect right
and uh you you have an idea as to how
best to sketch on paper for him
well
i'm just i'm just here to help through
i'm not here to do the drawing yeah yeah
i'm not saying here that's good to try
and find i mean i mean what i'm saying
is maybe maybe even give an example as
to how you can draw it so that it makes
sense to everyone
but i shouldn't have to show him how to
do a drawing i don't have time for that
i think he might not be the right person
to do that yeah
he's a draft man yeah he's not like i
think i think we need to find another
person yeah
all right
so table it till next
actually um
we we we won't be here may 12th so
i guess
do we physically have to be here he
could represent he could do it okay okay
okay all right and if he sends us great
drawings you get on the consent agenda
and nobody has to come here i you'll
know a day or two ahead that you're
going to be on consent and it'll just go
through it smoothly so
just so you don't get
more frustrated than you already are i
think we've made a lot of great progress
with the landscape too yeah this is a
complicated yeah complicated project in
a complicated site
all right thank you very much
okay so um we will table it then to the
may 12th
meeting is there someone that will make
a motion for that please so moved
seconded
i will call the role mr heyer yes
yes mr paul yes tony yes
okay
uh next application is number arv 22-3
the address is 235 south drexel the
applicant is pete foster the owner is
matthew streeter the applicant is
requesting architectural review and
approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story addition
to the rear of the existing house site
modifications also include updating
landscaping a new rear yard patio and an
in-ground pool
okay i want to give a little background
on this case even though it's the first
time before
you
um
a long time ago probably
last summer
i received a call from the owner and
were interested in doing this project
i met with them
they they both came and they were great
about learning the code learning
about the guidelines that we have those
that we're working on
even talk through some of the draft
guidelines stuff um but when the
original application came before me i
felt like it was really
missing
this is a project that they that the
applicant would like to put a
fairly modern addition on to a very
traditional home so it's complicated and
i really felt um that they were missing
the mark the floor even though we have
no objection to putting two different
styles together they need to relate to
each other in ways um that i didn't feel
they were there
floor plates didn't match ridge lines
didn't relate to each other materials
didn't kind of combine
um all kinds of things and that was a
hard conversation but the um owners were
very gracious and very thoughtful they
took a step back and
with some guidance they decided to
engage a professional designer so that's
where we are today i'm going to let pete
present the project um
it's a very exciting project it's an
effort to put together you know very
traditional bexley home with a modern
edition
um on a corner lot
and uh i think i'll just let you talk
through the process but i thought that
was important for you to understand the
background that this is a case where the
applicant really
took to heart
staff's um recommendation that this was
complicated enough to engage a designer
so
you said your name pete foster you saw
me swear or from the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
i do thank you
so much
but um let me just more angry with the
drawings uh there's quite a few here so
i'm going to refer to them back and
forth perhaps
um
first floor plan plus the site
second floor plan here
uh a neighborhood planet well for their
block just to give you a little bit of a
figure ground
study on
scale and uh sort of the density of the
lots
this is a street section i took
uh along
dale avenue looking north
so
this is the home on columbia this would
be the south elevation house of columbia
this is the south elevation of
the project that's in front of you
this
is the
east elevation of the existing home
and again
you see a portion of the
newbies
this is a section i took through
um
the new connector from the old to the
new
and and that is sort of sliced through
here
looking west
um
this then is the north elevation
this is a perspective that i drew
looking if you will from
um sort of here
i'm gonna capture the back elevation as
well as the new garage piece
and then
this is the neal avenue
elevation here
and this is the west elevation which
essentially is the backyard
this perspective that is taken
right about here we see this sort of
little
low row of boxwoods as you will
hear looking both at the whole side of
the existing house and the
new portion
the new east elevation
of the addition
so i think
a good place to start is to talk about
just additions in general and
eighty-five percent of the people that
i think investigate that i deal with
their goal is
let's take a look it's always been here
i wanna see this on the inside
then there are people
like the streeters who
young couple
live in arlington
daughters go to csg
massive australia
these from
bexley and then california and now
they're here
tomorrow
i think it has exposure to
you know different neighborhoods and
architecture
they came with a
idea of doing sort of this monolithic
thing on the back of this
house that we have on drexel
and um
they had their floor plan
pretty much set
but the old edition or the solution that
karen saw initially and what i was
presented with
um sort of smothered the whole house
and
it was taller than the old house and
literally
it was only about eight feet away
it didn't give
the original house sort of
the space it needed to still be
the urgent house and so
i think you know there are a lot of
examples of contemporary homes that have
been uneventually going back into
i would say i think like 1975 a house on
short brian that i'm involved with now
frank younger did
it didn't fit
the style of architecture on the street
but it met all the requirements of the
streetscape it was the right scale to
have front door faces you had all the
things that helped it fit into the
neighborhood and it was done
well and and to the state still as a
pretty cool thing on that street um
there's a house
on i think it's powell and north
parkview
where the majority of the house was a
new one the house is the rear of the
property and there's a wall that comes
all the way up the parking great sort of
front yard
and again
it
fits now
it may have been a lot of time but if
it's now
but it was his own entity it wasn't
having to react or be attached to
something that had
already sort of set a style on the site
and i think if we think about
those kinds of pieces that were
put into the neighborhood
by themselves and not attach themselves
already there
it's it's a little easier puzzle than
this one
i think if you get outside of 270 and
you start looking at houses that
old farmhouses victoria italianate
sort of just those old farmhouses
the house is still there i mean there's
these rambling pieces that
were attached and they were passed out
but they tell the story of
how that piece of property
adapted to what was necessary
those pieces onto you know outside in
the reuters still weren't having to
compete with the neighborhood they
weren't having to address the
streetscape
so having that ad in addition to
something that is already
there
as always is tough but when we want to
talk about a new story or a new style of
architecture
i think a lot of times it happens
to not
spend the time to relate the new piece
to the old piece it's just so this thing
gets blocked
and i think we've done here spend a lot
of time
thinking about what the old house was
about in order to develop what's here so
that said
the
um
initial
proposal came to me was just this sort
of big box that was here folks
so i tried to push the box farther away
which started to give them a little bit
of a private courtyard and it also
helped this connective piece become a
little bit more expressed and a nicer
experience
with the stair
the other thing that was important
was picking up on sort of axial things
that were happening in the old house and
what am i looking at when i looked at
the old house in the new house and
really started to organize the site a
little bit
as well as picking up on
fairing heights so the varying height of
this
is the same as the very height of that
and we can push this back a little bit
so that we don't just have flat box face
release garages there's still some
stepping back
just horizontal sort of cancellated fins
if you will to give us some shadow and
give us some more material which you
know matt and me are big on let's do
brick matches
all of these pieces that can lead to a
copper
top details from them so again we're
trying to tie people to do
the
window proportions that are here here
you know this one is the same as that
this window is two clips
again just trying to pay a little bit of
homage back to
the old house all the dormers on the
existing house have a flat roof
so
anything new that's starting to feel
like a warmer
it went again with the flat roof just to
try and pull it back
again be at the same time this bearing
right here
seems very nice there
believe this height here is very similar
if not the same
as this
lid on the form here so
i guess where i'm going is i i'm trying
to do payload bahamas to the house tell
a new story for these folks
and still have a scale of something that
that fits the neighborhood and
sort of this
new language they're trying to agree to
their
thank you is there anyone in the
audience that wants to speak
for or in opposition to this project
i know there was a letter written by the
neighbor to the north
which i anticipated potentially they're
going to be here this evening but
matt and me have kept them abreast of
everything they're doing on the site
since they bought the place and he did
write a letter although carrick kevin
said it's not
signed it was an email so take care of
this but he's in favor he did mention in
the letter or at least the
correspondence to matt i can't remember
if it's an email or not
they've always had some water issues on
their site
and they just want to make sure that
they'll continue to work with them to
make sure that the runoff is controlled
and not more of an issue
is there a board member that wants to go
first
sure
nice job
um
my
my only
i mean it's it's i love the way the
brick works um
i particularly like the uh on this uh
elevation that's the north elevation
you've got down at the bottom there on
the far left
the way that the brick is vertical
plays against
the chimney from the original house
and
it really breaks down i think that north
elevation is really successful because
you have these vertical elements against
the horizontal and that helps to balance
with the
this big roof that's sloping up you know
going from a one-story brick you know
elevation to a vertical element that's
skinnier and taller it's nice balance
what i struggle with though is the
um
the south
and southeast
corners you know because in your
perspective uh
that gray box
doesn't have anything to break up
you know
the largeness of that
party i'm assuming it's a hearty board
wood great um it just doesn't it doesn't
break it up so it really reads
it really reads um
larger than the house
um
now i think the perspective
yeah that and turning the corner
here yeah
so
i also you know based on your elevation
actually look it looks like
the roof is lower than what you're
showing in perspective that's just my
perception of it but
what you see in this perspective looks
taller to me than what's in the
elevation slightly
if i drew my lines back and that's the
same okay
so
so my reaction is that the the wood the
dark wood
reads like this gray box whereas the
other elevations have it you know
broken up so that you have these
vertical brick elements is there
anything that could happen
you know to break up the gray box
sensation at that
upper corner because i think that
elevation or that perspective view is
going to be the record
yeah where you were first yeah yeah so
is there anything that could happen
you know here to help break the sort of
boxiness uh because that's again that's
what to me reads as
overscaled with the house is this
thing's rising up and it's this big gray
box i would say that
so this is the same corner yep i'm sorry
that's the same part
yeah yeah and so five feet beyond i'm
breaking this down to the corner right
and again this is about
four feet behind this helps you to find
that
obviously i mean this could almost be
taken as you assume maybe that's the
project this problem
and so
what what's kind of lost in shadow here
i think is that there's a drop in
elevation that happens down to this
warmer
roof that again ties in with you're kind
of
creating a similar session
yeah i'm not going to say there isn't
something
yeah but i think that
in elevation this reads a little bit
more monolithic than potentially
what i was trying to express here in
this sketch
yeah and i appreciate that
is it possible that that
canopy
in order to break up the boxiness could
actually come around the corner
uh the dorm roof itself
yeah
yeah just to break break up the box coin
it's very similar
right
yeah because it would just break down
the boxiness of that corner
right i kind of like this vertical
piece that's going on and you could wrap
off it doesn't wrap and just go beyond a
little or it wraps two feet you know or
right just enough yeah
yeah i don't think that's or if you
wanted to grow the shower you could
bring out the shower too with that sure
i don't think that's unachievable right
that i think that's the only thing that
strikes again strikes me as being boxy
from a street perspective is is that
corner
otherwise i love the way that the garage
works um
i think your proportions are fantastic
um i love the door
you know condition here i think this is
very
uh sort of adolf los you know or more of
an like an early modern um edition which
is fantastic
it's just that it's just that you know
that clever
boxy corner that i i think people would
react and say
you know the addition is driving the
house
just because of the the sort of and i
understand the step backs but
yeah that's that's my only comment
um
so i do i really like it um i think it's
i think the materials are good
everything that bill said i'm not gonna
repeat
um i like that you know i appreciate
that uh
you did the street skate
um i would i sort of wonder i mean you
know we've had issues not with you but
others in the past where like you know
levels aren't aligning or things are too
tall so i would only
ask that um perhaps you look at it going
down the other street because this is a
corner lot and you do have a bunch of
other
people down what is that south drexel
so the heights of everything down that
street
just
check that maybe right this isn't this
one right here i did look at that but um
what i will say is this this piece that
you see
okay what's happening all right you okay
great this piece is back by the way so i
didn't feel the impact okay
good point
so with that uh i mean the little
thing over the stair i think that's
because you have
is
show me the stair on
yeah so i carried it through
you can kind of see sort of a spine that
continues okay
okay
okay it just looks a little weird in
section so
[Laughter]
nice job i don't have a whole lot of
comments i think i think you did a
really
nice job of preserving preserving the
old architecture if you want to say that
of the original house
and i love the blending i'm really
anxious to see this thing built because
i
i love the blending of the old with the
new and i think that's always a
challenge in anything we do in this
profession you know it's do you match
the new or do you do something
completely different and this is
this is interesting to me because you
did something completely different but
it's it's a nice blending of the two at
the same time
um so i'm really curious um going down
this road and seeing you know what is
the true read your drawings are
phenomenal
good job
yeah your renderings are amazing and it
really helps you understand your intent
so i have to say it it makes the process
much quicker as you look through it so
um and i
when i first saw it um
the first thing i thought was this exact
same thing that bill brought up about
the box and i originally thought it just
needed more windows but when he started
talking
um that idea of wrapping
that um
canopy can be around the corner is
awesome i love it yeah
yeah
it it also gives you i mean that's
that's south facing right so you get
shade
it's south facing right so you'd get
shade from that
i agree
and
and this elevation
uh
is
is so
it's the only thing that you know i see
all these localized symmetries that you
have but this one to me reads kind of
frumpy you know with it
just this little box out you know with
this little roof i mean
yeah
this is actually just
so one idea again was we've got sort of
this nice practical quarterback space
um
i do was maybe do a wall of copper or
just water running down the face of it
in the pool
but
it certainly gives them
a little
[Music]
sorry susanna i just have one
one other idea i mean
if the canopy wasn't
you know
i mean another option would you consider
making this a green wall
i worry a little bit on
what it meant
here yeah
i i think that can't get strong
really starts to
the only other thing i thought which is
not but
more windows in the garage door would be
even more amazing for me but other than
that i love it i think it's great
well i would agree uh to
so there's a short brick wall that then
has a
gate here so it's extending off the
existing house and kind of bridge
together
how are you how are you um
draining the the
low sloped roof is it going in one
direction are you going to scuppers
yeah the main roof the main roof yeah
we're going to come back we've had that
discussion actually um we've come to the
north side
and uh
we're going to create stuffers within
this wall
will they will they shoot out are you
going to have downspouts
well that'll break up here
well i mean it and it all goes north
i just don't want to let down
yeah yeah
no no i mean i i think it would break up
that north elevation i i
you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna
rely on how many downspouts to take all
that water from that roof on the north
elevation point if you're in a bad catch
we're gonna have some catches
leaders
like a leader or
i do some
i'm sure
you know i don't know what this true
dimension is
yeah the leaders yeah
and
i mean with this design
you know basically north you won't get
the shadow lines like you would on the
south but is there a way to convince
your client to do like a rectangular
downspout instead of your typical you
know something that's more flat profile
that would be i'm not gonna
tell you that's what he's gonna do right
he certainly has expressed
that it's not a great
um well i'd like to because of the
consent you know to the to the canopy
i'd like to write it in as a condition
that a resolution with a canopy be part
of the sure yeah contingent uh yeah with
karen yeah absolutely
i think it's a great idea
okay
um
with regards to that letter pete sent me
a letter that he received from the honor
something short of happened being an
affidavit right
we typically can't consider that so and
i recommend it as a universal episode
right and my understanding was it
potentially neither was going to show up
but
okay do i have a board member to make a
motion to read the findings
sure
the findings of fact and decision of the
board for application number
arb-22-3 for property located at 235
south drexel the board finds that a
certificate of appropriateness should be
issued
for the two-story edition with the
condition
that
the second floor canopy
extended
around the north west corner of the
south south south east corner southeast
corner
thank you
sure
and uh all changes are further subject
to
review by the
design consultant
motion to approve second
paul
mr hall yes
yes
thank you thank you
the next application is these app 22-8
the address is 415 nordic for you the
applicant is amy lauerhouse the owner of
ryan and bridget marsh the applicant is
requesting a recommendation to the board
of security and planning for
architectural review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a new home
[Music]
that's a great project
before i hand it over to amy to talk
about the changes
um
i'll just give a quick um staff report i
can't remember
how many of us how many of you i think
two of you were here last month great
okay three so um
last th this project is on a an empty
lot which is a very unusual and
um lucky
performance for amy and any designer
and as a result the
owner has
instructed amy as part of their program
that they would like a garage in the
front to preserve the back we've been
through all this before um
we have done several of these in the
past they're not particularly you know
the best scenario but on lots that are
thin and you can't you would eat up a
lot with paving
um
this is a
solution that has been proposed by amy
we had a lot of discussion about it i
think that there are several small moves
that have done
an enormous service to the design um i
just want to point out a couple of them
um
if i can find the right pictures
oh
there is now a materials page which we
can ask her to bring um
for this particular board meeting
the
i'm looking for the front elevation
the rendering or the that's the this one
yeah um i i want i'm going to show it in
the um
in the
rendering as well but
this one i want to take particularly
because this is where the major majority
of the changes came
um amy listened to the board and went
ahead and i think i made a whole list on
here on on the um staff report what was
brought up at the meeting we had a whole
list and really all those of those
issues were addressed more detail was
added to the garage facing the street so
that um it looks more like part of the
house and the garage doors are not
facing the street they're side loaded
and also i think helps a lot that the
piers on the wall were put back
so that it doesn't feel like a bigger
sea of asphalt it's it's much more
contained
the um the drive the um
the asphalt or whatever the material
that you may use in front of the garage
it feels especially in the rendering
which i'll pull up might be distorted so
i have to okay
screenshot okay it's a much more
successful solution i also um want to
note that
um and i think it was
maybe mr higher that brought up that the
turret should be both taller but also
act as a linchpin for like you know the
two sides i think that amy's done a good
job accomplishing
both of those things
by changing the dimensions and the
massing of the turret putting the doors
really prominent not hidden inside and
then changing the materiality so it
really does look like a connector piece
now i also think that the material the
materials and the colors that um have
been have had it changed to
look much more
i'm this is not what i like to use these
words but i'm the same anyway because it
was said in the meaning less mere
feelings
i don't know really what that means
and i do think that the the new material
and color choices um really are richer
and they really fit in with the
architecture and the aesthetic
effectively more i also just want to
know that this is an unusual street
it is very much being there are new
houses on it it doesn't have kind of a
character that's predetermined
um
and this will
this will set
a standard for
history
um i'm going to try to find a
non-distorted view of that screenshot
okay
um cover anything that i did yeah oh
yeah
yes
thank you karen that was a very good
summary of my changes um i do
the
um
the only other well
a couple more details um the the porch
we we kind of separated as we talked
about at our last meeting and
made it more
it's it's made out of wood now instead
of
stone so the the
turret really
sets itself apart as a as a very unique
feature and i think raising it was a
great suggestion i think it it made a
big difference in how that feels as part
of the house
i also made the porch a little bit
bigger too
and also on the side and you can see it
here in the rendering on the right hand
side
one of the things brought up was that
the some of the windows were arched and
some of them were square and so i ended
up kind of cleaning that up a little bit
and making it making all those windows
square which also i think is was a good
suggestion
as far as the garage at the front i
wanted to talk a little bit more about
that
i didn't talk a lot at the first meeting
about the the site because that's going
to be something i'll talk more about at
the zoning hearing but it is a
non-conforming lot it's only about 75 of
the width
that's supposed to be required for an r3
zoning district
so
that made it a little challenging to try
and lay out the house on the site
also
when we first started looking at the
site and looking at the trees if you go
to the site plan right there uh karen
there are two major trees in the front
yard and also a pretty nice size tree
street tree
and if we
when we first talked about it if we had
to
put a detached garage in the back it
would make not only the house extremely
narrow but we would have to lose one at
least one or maybe two of those trees to
do that so
by bringing the driveway more in a
central location
we are able to maintain all the great
trees in the front that are on the site
lastly since our last meeting
i have done oh one other thing is
there's a tremendous amount less
hardscape by not having to have the
driveway go all the way to the back and
have parking back there
so i feel like we're
the ratio of green space is more than it
would be if we had a garage in the back
um lastly since our last meeting i did a
little bit more research in on the
neighborhood
and between maryland and this is i think
like five houses north of maryland
between maryland and del mar there are
actually four houses that have attached
side load garages
similar to what i'm proposing and there
are actually four houses that have
attached front-facing garages so i
really think that
i feel strongly that this layout fits
well within the fabric of this specific
neighborhood in bexley
and like karen said thank you um i also
have supplied a materials board
most of that is
shown right there on the rendering
the roof colors the stone color we went
with a lighter stucco and darker windows
which i think
gives it a little bit better of a more i
guess old world kind of feel and
also as karen mentioned i engaged the
peers so the stone wall comes across the
face of the garage and then those piers
and it continues out to the to the drive
and those piers are then um engaged at
the front front of the auto cord and
they it will be heavily landscaped
around there as well so i think
that it's those those two things will
really minimize
uh the view of the
hardscape area in the front of the
house i wanted to just show the last
yeah
next to it
sorry zoom people this is not gonna go
yeah
so i think that gives you a good idea of
some of the differences that i think are
important especially these peers
i'm happy to answer any questions you
might have
you're a board member that would like to
go first
oh i'm sorry is there someone in the
audience that would like to
speak before or think they're here for
that other case
yes
[Music]
so
i think i went first the last time and i
i still stand by my i think this is a
very nice house but i respect the the
comments that came from the board after
i spoke and
and quite honestly i think you may have
too i left here with a little bit of you
know spin going on in my head
um you know i am a runner i run this
neighborhood quite a bit
and this whole idea of an auto corp i
was like are there really no houses in
bexley that do not have an auto court
because i found that to be
fascinating i forget somebody said that
and it's the first day i run down drexel
and i immediately find two they have
audit courts with them
and i thought oh okay so
what's the issue at hand so then i heard
comments about garage doors facing
streets and those natures well there is
a there's a wild mix of that you know
and there's there's a reason for that we
have houses on corners
um that only
can only put a garage you know in some
cases because their sites can only put a
garage door facing the street right so
i kept going by the auto courts over
there actually did some research on my
own looking at auto courts
and
what what is the architecture associated
with autocorts and looked at your
drawings again and everything and i
thought
that's the weak point in this
is how the audit court is being
addressed and i get moving the peers out
and doing some things trying to make
that happen
but typically in a in a neighborhood
setting from my perspective what what
i've learned is that these articles are
screened
pretty heavily
um whether it's through something that
goes around the whole thing with gates
or something like that
um and i i think that that's the
the missing piece here i think the
autocore is incredibly exposed um as you
drive up and down even parkview where
cars are parking in like the
schottenstein residents for example you
know they have that wide open area and
the gates that go through and everything
and they park their cars right there
you know it's all very well exposed but
it's also has a has a layering to it
which you know kind of helps with it
and i think the materials are going to
be very incredibly important to the
success of this house and the use of
you know shingle roofing versus metal
roofing is going to be incredibly
important but
i think this auto core idea if you know
i don't think you have a lot of options
in terms of where to put your garage and
i think how the auto core itself
is addressed
architecturally is going to be the key
to to making this successful and making
it feel like a vexilar goal
so that's really what i have to offer
tonight
mr howard
okay
well just to clarify
if it was me that
implied that there are no motor courts
in bexley that is not what i said
because i know there are many
um my particular concern was just this
neighborhood and looking up and down uh
all you have to do is go to google maps
and
there there just aren't very there
aren't any in this particular vicinity
but
um i would say that
the idea of the garden wall you know
tying in
i mean i i i guess i can accept
it based on your constraints
[Music]
i do have some other concerns that i
think are tied in with the whole estate
the bexley aesthetic
and of course
the bexley aesthetic
is not uniform
and it's rapidly changing
uh
to the detriment in some ways of
bexley's aesthetic you know what we see
and perceive of as being backslate one
is asphalt shingle roofs
um they can be done well and they're
i never thought i would say this but
there are some that do these slate line
roofs that look way better
than the wedgewood you know whatever you
want to call it the the architectural
shingle
which has become so commonplace that
it's becoming plastic
and it just doesn't read as having any
authenticity
and
you know there's a house on parkview a
new house i'm sorry on columbia
on the west side of columbia new house
that used i think the slate vine and it
actually looks
it looks good
and i wonder if there's another kind of
shingle that you could introduce to your
client that would give this more stature
um i just the perception of these
particular architectural signals
shingles is so
it's so ubiquitous now
that it reads as being you know suburban
anymore it used to be that those things
were like oh wow we matched something to
look like wood but everybody knows that
it's not and everybody sees it as being
the typical asphalt shingle now
it's just an idea
to consider something that has a little
more
integrity a little more stature
i mean if if your client had the money i
would go with the ludovici
you know clay tile because that would be
brilliant on this house it would make it
a bexley house a hundred percent
i i guess yeah ludoichi is phenomenal um
i guess i'm trying
we my clients and i are trying to strike
a balance between
the neighborhood and that and the house
because you know you're talking about
the schottenstein mansion and you're
talking about south columbia and that is
not the neighborhood that this house is
in
so
i'm i'm kind of trying to straddle that
line of really making a house that'll be
a great addition to this neighborhood
but not something that is so
over the top that it just looks out of
place
well that's the thing isn't it that all
our houses are
the standards are getting lower so you
have streets with nothing but asphalt
shingle even drexel is slowly becoming
all asphalt shingle so when somebody
does something on drexel in the future
do they say the same thing you know do
they say i don't want to be out of
character with this neighborhood so i'm
going to do cheap asphalt jingle
um that that to me is
you know why not why not raise the bar
why not say no bexley needs to be better
than that because it used to be better
than that yeah and i've i actually have
another client right now that's that's
considering a slate
a synthetic slate product
and
we cannot
find
any
blend
that to me a lot of those look almost
polka dotty you know they don't have the
natural color blend of the real slate
roots and they don't have a real sheen
right right they don't reflect the sun
right the way that slate does right and
so i i
sometimes i struggle with those kind of
materials that are trying to be
something that they're not
um and and you know real slate is for
for most
people just not
economically feasible so
i struggle with that you know not on
just this project but on a lot of other
project projects too of finding
finding good products that are a nice
balance between
you know um just a builder home
development versus
very very high end
well
the thing that really will strike
attention to this is the turret right
because a traditional turret would have
graduated
roof shingles or slate right and if
you're using a standardized modular
shingle you're not going to get that and
it's going to stand out really badly
how do you wrap a cone with a
standardized shingle
without making it look like you just
replaced something that was really
beautiful before that
uh that that's what i struggle with with
this asphalt
if there's a way you know to find you
know a slate line or one of these other
you know g from gaf or owens corning or
whoever it is and
you know get on the phone with them and
say
i have a turret and do you guys have any
options for me because this is
ridiculous i you know i can't i can't
use your product unless you have
something that's going to look good on a
turret right
um i just think that would be it's not
it's a compromise it's a but it's a step
up right
um the other thing there's a couple
other material things that i want to
mention
uh one is the stone
bexley has a tradition of using buttered
joints
not raked joints okay this kind of stone
so i think it's really important that
you butter these joints because it's
gonna make it look like a real bexley
house okay the problem with this kind of
stone product stuff that's out there
is not necessarily the stone but the way
they do the joints right and if you
drive up and down sherwood you drive up
and down brighton you know anywhere
you'll find butter joints everywhere and
it just has this really soft
way of just blending into the
neighborhood and it's it looks
traditional and i think that could help
this product
i like that and the other thing is my
concern about the arched lintels over
the windows on the turret you're not
only doing an arch
in this direction but you're also doing
an arch in this direction yes
and
even having them done in cast stone with
the correct radius is that it's going to
feel kind of plastic
so i'm a little concerned about
whether those arches are would be
appropriate you know okay i i like them
on the front you know it's sort of this
french country look i love the white
stucco i think that's brilliant
but i think those windows on your turret
the lintels are gonna drive you crazy
and i just don't want this house to look
cheap right because i struggle with this
myself as an architect we we can go
through shop drawings and approve all
this stone and then the guys get out
there with it in the field
and they they don't know how to work
with it
doing an arch on an arch you know is
really complicated and there are very
few masons left that know how to do this
um so
i would
actually reconsider maybe you
concentrate on the door now here's
another option yeah is you could
you could introduce another material
which is all over bexley which is to do
them in brick yeah okay
and i know some of my original
inspiration photos i showed when i was
here last month had some of that
so yeah you wanted to introduce brick
you know it wouldn't have to be a stone
colored brick right it might be a
regular you know sort of brownish red
brick but you'd have to include that in
multiple places it would have to be a
consistent detail right but i think your
masons are going to be much happier
working with
even if you're using um
uh pavers
because when we're working with curves
we typically use pavers for those
lentils because they're smaller and you
can get a better um distribution on the
arch right don't use a modular brick
because that'll look worse than the
stone
but you know i'm getting into details
here because i'm seeing a lot of
potential i'm reading this house going
now we're down to things that will make
this house really stand out as a bexley
house and those details are critical the
butter joints
going to like a a paver brick for the
you know for the lentils or a roman
brick
and then
was the other thing oh and then on the
garden wall if you look at your plan
i think your plan is preliminary
but
if you go to the plan view you'll see
that the garden wall the cap of the
garden wall is not
seamless
it's not continuous from the garage it
actually lit like there's this butt
joint on the on the rendering or my no
on the plan
so if you go to the plan view
i just yeah and then zoom in on that
right there zoom in on that
oh it is consistent across the front
you're just seeing the cap like the dash
line is the wall yeah
but you're not showing the cap on your
on your garage oh i see yours yes yes
yes i want to see the cap on the garage
okay so that i can see that it's a
consistent clean line and not a not a
butt joint on that cap
okay i know what you're saying
right which she has but the line you
know instead of showing the base of the
garage dashed which i understand for
this view didn't really work right you
know but that cap needs to be a
continuous cap yeah that would really
help and then why not have a wall on the
other side of the right hand here
so if you look at the site plan it's the
tree i'm just very concerned about that
trunk is pretty pretty close to that
and i'm not really concerned about just
the pier i'd like to talk to our
landscape architect because i would like
actually the wall to go across and have
another pier at like closer to the
property line that's what i was thinking
originally
but i'd like to talk to our landscape
architect and see if how comfortable she
feels with that with being so close to
the tree
yeah
um
okay
i appreciate a lot of your details i'm
i'm not a fan of the north elevation
towards the back
it is getting towards the back and uh
but i think that you know that headspace
of stucco above those windows is
is really large i wish that could be
proportioned better because you have
this skirt of stone
and then you've got these nice windows
and then you've got this big forehead
you know that the hairline is receding
and it'd be nice if there was something
to break that up i was going to say i
wonder if i could potentially look at
just lowering that because there's no
first there's no second floor space
above there that would be lovely yeah
yeah that'll be lovely now you're
getting close to the metal roof of your
front porch right but i can
yeah i can play with that a little bit
but the
um and then the railing your your
materials detail for the railing is
there any way they could do this in
cedar instead of metal for that for that
railing
i think they're flexible i think you
know this is their sort of empty nester
home and they they want low maintenance
yeah sure um like everyone
and yet this is your front face
right you know oh you're talking about
right here not on the back is that like
a wrought iron
um it's gonna be a black aluminum
yeah a black aluminum yes i have the the
materials board has that um i see it
yeah but the it's it's not the pickets
that i worry about it's the newels
because
but there isn't any
there isn't any nulls on the front good
okay so it's just the pickets and the
top rail on the bottom right exactly
yeah the newels are only going to be on
the back
because those things you know where you
get those junctures they look like you
know an erector set you know everybody
just come in and you put these and
everybody sees it yeah it's it's only on
the about the second floor balcony on
the back the front doesn't have any mill
post the other thing that um i wanted
and again this is just details but if
you go to your garage elevation
um
and i really i'm i really want to spend
the time because i'm giving up
you know the facade that i wanted on the
to the street on the garage elevation i
really wanted that second floor to be a
bigger
floor coming towards the street
but
those the details
for the garage you know that arched
header
um
if that's in wood
then i think you need to um instead of
it just being a board it needs to have a
little crown
okay or something else besides just a
flat board because i think that'll look
cheap okay
um when you do a wood detail on the
exterior of a house you're not there to
mimic the stone arches right you're not
there to just say oh we were just making
wood a wood version of what's on the
house it's in stone or now brick you
need to break it down you need to
express the wood for being wood or
whatever material it is right you know
but you should have a crown
uh
and
sometimes it's nice to
particularly with a french country is to
is to not have that be projected but to
have it be flush
okay with the stucco that is very common
for french country yes not and because
when again
it's these you know all these stone
headers that are projected all these
wood headers that are projected
they look
they look cheap they look suburban and
that's not bexley so let's you know get
those butter joints push the details in
you know so that the massing really
stands out
and then
i think it's going to be brilliant
thank you good suggestions
and thank you for your uh your very
simple little capitals on your
on your porch piers yes
no box capitals anymore no
will that also have like you know a
little rounded bed molding underneath
the cap or something to give it a little
more detail
instead i was going very simple because
they're they're a little bigger and i'm
doing the the angled brackets so i
didn't
you could still do a little bed mold
okay just because
it's the it's those kind of refinements
like the crown molding on your a little
crumbling not a big one but a little one
on those door arched headers a little
bed mold underneath your flat what we
call an abacus you know on top of your
your peers
just gives it that little extra fine
touch that just
says that
you know we we want this to have a lot
of character down to even the smallest
detail right not just from the street
view but right people who see it from
the street will go oh look at all those
little details right that really makes a
bexley house
sure um
so i was just wondering a little bit
about i see in a few places you've um
stopped the stone base
and i just wanted you to speak a little
bit to why you're doing that
my goal was really to to break down the
massing and i i thought that
my feeling was if it went all the way
around it was just it made it a little
bit more vanilla
it just didn't give sort of different
feelings of you know different pieces of
the of the massing okay yeah
um i'll just speak as a stucco house
owner
in here in bexley um
having that not go directly at the grade
yes is nice yes so just consider that
yes there's actually um
uh actually code requires that it
doesn't and it has a weep screen but
most of the time with the older homes
eventually it just gets put all the way
to the ground but when i do stucco i do
detail it that way with the webscreen
yes i know exactly what you're talking
about yeah i mean mine's held up but i
know i've seen a lot of issues yes and
and as someone who replaced all their
stucco in their house
you know transitions into the windows
and doors and all that stuff are super
important
um
[Music]
i wasn't here last month and i wasn't
able to come sometimes i just come as a
alternate to listen so what i found
very nice where
the fact that you pulled up here in the
the two renderings
um i think
that site wall being you know brought
back or your peers being brought back
because you have such a thin site you
know you have sort of a small site like
i feel like that scrunched things in
more and it made it feel better with
your site versus when you had those
peers out it for sure it felt more like
you were in suburbia somewhere yeah so
uh i think that was a that was a good
move
and um
the rest i'll just leave because they
spoke to most of the rest so great thank
you
we have a drawing that shows how this
sits um a lot compared to where the
other houses sit
yes
the vicinity um in the
in the civic clerk it's it's down at the
bot near the bottom of the files
in the if you go back to the
it's from february but it's still
it's like the fifth from the bottom uh
yeah from the bottom
vicinity yep there you go
yes
i think
yeah that my client just said they just
broke ground i think on that house so
it's getting started
okay yeah i was trying to find it in the
list and couldn't find it just because i
just wanted to check again to see that
it was that that garage wasn't sticking
out any farther than the face of that
of the house of the racket so
um i won't take too long so i'm i'm so
we're so lucky that we have some
brilliant people on this board because
when um when mr hall was talking about
the courtyard being screened it the bell
or the light went off and uh i agree
with you totally that if you could
return even a wrought iron fence down
the line and have the piers that you
know that the columns are something that
just as you drive from that
screens the garage doors i think um
plant some
evergreens or whatever and i kind of
like to
design with landscaping but it
definitely will help and uh and i i
think that it could make it much more
much better i did ask though i thought
in the last meeting what the view was
from uh the south like if you're driving
nor headed north on the street and
you're looking over at it and
because i feel like we never you know we
get drawings of elevations but we really
never see anything in elevation and for
a new house i feel like i would like to
see
what that elevation looks like
or what that perspective looks like
from the street as if i'm heading north
and looking over at the house
i did not recall you asking for that i
apologize um yeah i don't i only have
the rendering done of the of the kind of
the main entry space and
amy the reason i ask that is because i
live in a house
that is an l-shaped stucco and stone
house with a small turret and i said
last week my turret is way too short
yeah um and your turret looks so much
better thank you
but when you approach my house from that
direction
it's not great and i do everything i can
with landscaping to try to make it
better right but i i really would like
you to look at it from the other
direction because this is the beauty
this is the the money shot right with
the turret but when you come from the
other way
i think um if you look if you go back to
the floor plan
one thing i would definitely point out
is that
well and even in that elevation but
there's a lot of stepping going on there
so if you look at that um you know it's
it's not all kind of one facade as it
goes down um it's kind of steps in and
out and then the piece with the master
bathing closet is one story so
i feel like there's um and actually the
landscape plan has much more landscaping
than i've shown on that elevation um so
and there's going to be a specimen tree
um
right where that window was in the
laundry room so i think there is going
to be a lot of lands a nice landscaping
there but i i i feel like i've broken
the massing down enough that we'll have
a lot of interest as we as people come
up from the south as well yeah there you
can see it there's going to be a
magnolia tree there
yeah um i just i i think
before it gets built you should draw it
and
look at it in perspective to make sure
that you're happy with that
because i i can't fix mine with
landscaping this is it's just a
it's literally like you have your
shoulder turned
to the street and yeah you're facing
this way and instead of facing the
street it feels like you've got your
back turned right to the people coming
from that direction so
that's all i have okay
thank you
okay so based on what you have heard do
you want to put it to a vote or would
you um like to ask for it to be tabled
to um i would like to put it to a vote
please yes can i just point out that
this is a recommendation yes
so we could have final we could have it
be approved for recommendation of these
apps
get your zoning approved with final
design
only two weeks later here
we do that all the time
so then you would see these details
that'd be great and we also have
always with the new building conditions
that the landscape can get approved by a
tree and public art decision so that
whole idea yes
that's going to be really
looked at by
the tree public gardens commission um
with all your comments put in there
yes
if we gave it a recommendation i mean
it's up to you guys but if we recommend
it that it go to visa with the condition
that final design details come back here
it assures the
applicant that you're you know moving
forward but it also assures the board
that they will see the details
i don't think it's a new world but i
mean sure if like if
sure anyone can be consent but
i think this is such an important
project
yeah i mean
i i don't i mean i don't want to sleep
for anything see if i'm very close in
the years
[Laughter]
if there's anything i'm saying that i
would imagine you'd object to no that
all sounds fine
so with the condition that it would come
back to this board for final review
i i did if if if it's okay i have one
more
comment
it's not over until you no it's
ms tony's comment about the turning the
shoulder thing really struck a chord
if you go to the plan view this is a
suggestion
uh and keep that one up too but you have
a laundry room yes that
is this go to the plant now
so this laundry room one of the things
that um i thought about as ms tony was
talking was it doesn't feel like you're
turning your shoulder
if you have other punctures like that
aren't windows
and sometimes a canopy with a little
stoop you know can really give a sense
that you are facing in that direction
the shoulder turn thing is because it's
all these windows and a skirt and a
bunch of you know surface and there's
nothing that you know is perforated i
mean really perfect like you can enter
or exit
you know would you consider having a
garden door you know at the end of this
laundry room
that would you know
help to take the idea of this not
turning your shoulder but actually you
are
you're presenting yourself to the street
from the south and it would also afford
you an exit which you don't have right
anywhere else to get to this side of the
house i actually had that in my first
presentation and they took it out but i
i can certainly bring it up again and we
can talk through it more
well i think i think i think that would
add you know again another okay another
a focal point of detail but also this
idea that you know you are now facing
the street from the south that would be
a really nice condition it would just
have to be a couple steps up and then
and a door but that could that could
make all the difference in how people
perceive
the welcomeness of this in the
neighborhood you know you're not that
you're not turning your your shoulder
that was it i had to okay
the only condition is that it's coming
back here for final design review
so that would be something to relate all
this information to the well
between i mean i would imagine that he
was going to do something
i've taken good notes as i did with my
staff notes i will also sit there
friends
recording and do them too so yeah that
those things will be in the staff report
that i give on design okay i don't think
we need to do any conditions except that
just final design functions
okay architecture review board okay um
you know and anything you can
incorporate along the way
whatever point your drawings are the
week before visa
will re-upload them right and then we'll
come back here two weeks later which
should not delay you at all no it won't
um
and then your client can be also assured
that this is moving
and i don't see any reason that visa
can't go ahead
and look at the zombie okay
okay so we are uh making a motion then
to send it to these app
knowing that it is returning to us
and also put in there that is
yeah i've already actually made that
submittal so i'm hoping
their next meeting i'll be there
whenever that is i just want to have it
on the record yeah
so do we need a motion then
so moved i'll move
seconded
yes
thank you very much
okay i am going to uh after we take just
a short break
10 minutes
[Music]
and bzap 22-14
the address is 227 north ardmore
the applicant is lee markson
the owner is lee marx and the applicant
is requesting
a recommendation to be zapped for
architecture review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for
exterior staircase and a deck on
existing 40 square foot garage
[Music]
um
and why we have the two case numbers
because this was originally submitted as
an arb
with the revisions to our accessory
structure code i really felt it didn't
quite meet the mold so
it was refiled then under
bees app so this is that's why we have a
recommendation
so
we talked through some of the things
today
but we're here to look at the
architecture i do have some concerns
about a variety of sizes up the wall and
we'll talk about that today soon
i think this is kind of an important
picture
architectural sensitivity
is
don't
show that that are a little bit
inaccurate
this seems to be a very thick i'm not
sure
i'm sorry the drawing
is
90 degrees
off come on can i swear you in sure
oh please state your name
lee markson you saw me swear from the
testimony you're about to get this
evening is the truth
uh i do
ramble on away
um
okay
it doesn't matter that much
so i think my project is or my project
request really is somewhat immaterial
because
you're all worried about the character
of bexley and what is what would it do
to the
alley
allies of bexley for somebody to do
something like this because if you guys
were to agree to it and i do it
somebody else is going to ask to do it
and so it's a big change
you've gone on quite a bit about the
character of bexley
my house is a 1952
post-world war ii infill house there is
nothing stunning about it
um
the garage originally did look like uh
the other garages it had a peaked roof
um
uh i put a permit in to put a new roof
on and i put this on
um
fine i like my garage a lot
uh i don't know how everybody else feels
about it but
uh
also if you look at our alley
uh the alley is very utilitarian and
take this picture right here
it's a wall of fences and garages if
you've been down my alley it is a
alley of fences and garages the only
allergy used for is cars
cans trash cans that is sometimes during
the day children
and then maybe at night crime
so
doing something to the alley to say that
i'm going to ruin the character of
bexley
that seems somewhat unfair because
that isn't a pretty ally
now there's a big marketing campaign to
beautify the alleys
well
if we can't really do anything but put a
fence up
then
then you're going to get alleys that are
fenced in and there's really nothing
there
um so i'm proposing that
to have something that you actually
could have on the alley i know it
doesn't mean any of the zoning rules and
that's that's fine
um
[Music]
i'm really just asking you to consider
it uh the the other point
why i think it's worth it and i
apologize for the van being there
i had
it's normally in the garage
um
there used to be a big patio in the
backyard
it occupied most of the backyard there
was the backyard was gravel
it was really nothing much there
i've taken the patio out except for the
small space where the table is put lawn
in landscaping
i could certainly put a deck back there
i could put the patio back
uh but
you know the mayor's going on about how
that alm creek is got you know is rising
quicker than ever and we're doing
nothing more than put more and more
hardscape in
um i looked at the garage and said you
know it's 400 square feet of space that
is
really doing nothing other than
protecting my car
um
it could be used for more
uh
the only other point i guess i'm gonna
make is the last time we had a little
neighborhood gathering on the left
which you really can't see in this shot
is my neighbor's yard and it's it's
effectively asphalt
um
that's where we've had our neighborhood
parties because he has the only
continuous large
space of asphalt
if i had 400 square feet of space
i could have the neighborhood party
um i don't have that
the lot just isn't set up for
entertaining there isn't any way to do
it
in the little lots that are in north
actually
so
that's really kind of the angle that
i was going on um
if
if you don't like the idea that's fine
it's going to be outrageously expensive
for me to do
and technically complicated
um
so it's it's
you know
in some ways it would be great if you
said no
because then i don't have to do it um
but
but i think it would be cool and
and i think that it it
would add a new dimension to what you
can do in the little little houses of
bexley
your turn
didn't matter right sure go
ahead would like to go first
i'll go first
uh first of all i'd like to say that
every house in bexley has character and
one of the things that we're doing with
our
design guidelines that we're putting
together is is really to show that
so
anybody who has what they consider to be
a frumpy house or whatever with no
character there's always a way to find
beauty in all of our houses and improve
on it sometimes sometimes it doesn't
need it but there's and there's no one
particular language of architecture that
we say is bexley's character
right it's a variety of languages
so with that being said i like the idea
in fact
uh my alley
well actually it's not my alley in south
bexley it's it's an alley down between
uh chelsea and kenwick okay
and somebody built this
really cool
uh
play thing for their kids which is made
out of wood it's all very custom
horizontal slatting and all that
and it works great i walk down that
alley and it doesn't take away from
you know the monotony of the other
garages and the trash cans and all that
other stuff it actually adds character
to the alley and
the one thing that i
that i react to on this is really the
scale not not necessarily the height but
the the amount of
footprint that you're building to this
you know all these walls with if
this
deck and its
you know its privacy screening was half
the size of this garage and was kept to
the house side
um i think it would be really successful
so i agree with you
i put the privacy i
i hadn't put the privacy walls on the
drawing this way
not so much for my privacy
from my neighbor's privacy that if
people were on the deck they didn't have
to be watching us
and we wouldn't be able to watch them
so that was really my thoughts i had i
wanted
privacy walls on my neighbor's sides
and then facing the alley where i can't
see the neighbor's backyard from the
roof
and facing my yard where i
i can see in my backyard
that
that that's where i was trying to do
that but i agree with you on the scale i
don't particularly like
as you would go down the alley i
wouldn't like the idea of having five
foot walls in the side of that garage i
don't think it looks appropriate right
so which is the which is the alley side
it's the garage door side the garage
door is the other side right so
why not just do the do the deck thing
here
right
pardon me
well i mean this is the alley
uh the alias yes oh no the alley is here
no the door the doors open to the alley
so i thought on the one elevation it
showed the bushes above the garage show
me the photograph
again show the photograph no yeah go up
to up to the yeah there
so
the door is
it's back here
i would reverse it and or somehow get
the stair to come up to be here
and that you have your screen
portion here
and and and that
and facing into your yeah facing into
your yard
say it again
to
see where i'm demarcating
the backside
yeah
so
in other words
there would be a flat roof that would be
unoccupied
unoccupied on the alley side
okay
and you build your you build your
privacy wall
that
screens you from the alley
halfway
down the roof
here
and what would that do for me
well you're continuing the scale of the
alley you're not building this giant
wall right on the alley you're actually
stepping it back
so i have a wall on the alley hole
um because i think neighbors aren't
going to want to see you partying up
there on your roof
okay i mean we had a we had a project
that came before us where
somebody uh was building a
deck uh that
was on the back of their house
and the neighbors complained because
they would see them in their pool
so if we have if we have people who are
concerned about people being up high
looking down into their pool and there
are privacy fences there you know your
neighbor here across here they have a
privacy fence for a reason
and now you're going to be hanging out
here partying looking down and that's
not going to be comfortable for them if
you built your privacy wall here then
you still then you still keep the scale
of the alley you build your privacy wall
and you open your party on your roof so
the other thing that's kind of
bad about having the only ranch home is
that i have no elevation anywhere
everyone else around me is true story so
everyone can see into my yard
i can't see anybody not that i want to
see anybody's yard nobody's creepier
than a 50 year old man so um
but
you are
if you stand in any of these backyards
you're a cattle you're
just in a pen
you've got you can't see anything i've
got a tree in the backyard i can't see
the sky
you stand on top of that garage roof you
can see the whole sky it's really nice i
can see the sunset
go over the
the
uh behind the neighbor's house i can't
see the sunset at all from my backyard
or my front yard anywhere they are
um
down the alley there's nowhere that i
can actually see the sky
if i put a privacy fence a six foot tall
privacy fence on the back of that then i
can't see the sunset again i haven't
really gained anything i'm not saying
that it doesn't have to be a six foot
high solid wall
i mean
design it so you can see the sunset but
keep the privacy from your neighbors how
do you do that
there's a design challenge for you
is your privacy wall four four feet tall
so when you're seated with your friends
there's privacy when you stand and you
can see the sunset especially when
you're seated
here
right along this side
[Music]
yeah
um okay
so
that would
so
uh you're also suggesting the staircase
be
driven up the back wall
from uh from this picture from right to
left
i'm trying to come up with a way for you
to have
the the private
you know roof area that you can utilize
to respect the scale of the alley to
give you the view to the sunset and if
that means moving the stair it means
moving the stair no i'm asking was that
what you're proposing is to have the
steering off the back side not
necessarily i mean there might be
another option i'm just
you know that would come with i think
just laying out
you know this half-sized
inset
seating area and then how would you want
the stair maybe maybe it'll open up
other ideas for you
i can't design it for you i don't know
which way the stair would go best which
way you want to access the stairs you do
from the backyard you do it from
you know the garage
you know let's see that's west so the
north side you want it from the east
side
i'm just saying that i think it would be
really interesting and i think it it
would set a precedent for working on a
flat roof which there are a lot of
garages with them
but if somebody was doing another new
garage where
they wanted to do something like that
they could they could have a
hipped roof or a gable roof to the alley
side and then to the in inset to their
backyard they could build an outdoor
deck which is
perfectly reasonable
people do dormers facing in their into
their backyards why not have a deck
okay i'll consider that
are we
how are we is this is a recommendation
to be zap only
those are my comments
yeah
i concur with everything he said i have
a
a little bit of a different solution i
think the whole thing just needs to be
rotated 90 degrees
um so that this open side isn't to the
alley i agree with screening towards
your neighbors but this open side you
need to and i don't like the screen wall
necessarily
screening from your backyard i i have
struggled with why you would do that i
think there needs to be this connection
from your backyard up to the deck and
make this feel like it's all part of
that back area
um so i think that needs to be rethought
i mean i think you did a pretty good job
you know saying
yeah half size whatever it works
i have more
technical concerns about this right um i
guarantee those block walls are not
full of concrete water huh they are they
are
okay
with the roof on i put rebar and grater
down
and then uh
poured a lentil across the whole top
the roof structure itself is set for 59
pounds per square foot okay
good good for you loading so it was
designed sort of as a deck to or a
future deck apparently if i was going to
do it i figured i might as well do it at
the time you took your other roof off
okay it still works as a roof just fine
as i said i think my my main issue with
it is it looks like it's more connected
to the alley than it is to your backyard
and i
yeah okay
and i i think that's the creative notion
is how do you make this feel like it's
just another level of your backyard
and not this ambiguous space that's
connected to the alley
fair enough yeah
i agree
i agree with bullet points i mean i
i've certainly talked thought about the
scale thing and that doesn't it doesn't
really work for me
and i didn't know what to do so
yeah i think that shows perfectly what
keith was talking about where you know
it's facing the alley that's your garage
door which you said is off the alley
um
and i mean i'm not saying that it has to
be half like maybe it's a it's
two-thirds of that is your patio or deck
up there or whatever um but i think
everybody has said that
um
you should explore things a little bit
more you know perhaps your stair going
up doesn't have to be off to the side
maybe it's a
piece
in your backyard and it turns into
something sculptural
um i know which house you are i actually
live on your street i'm actually down
south of denver so
um
i think i think you have some options so
just consider i'll think about it are
you planning to replace the garage doors
what
are you planning to replace the garage
door as well i'm just curious because
uh i would like to raise a garage door
um
it wouldn't be like that um
i quite frankly
my old college roommate's jerome scott
and i said hey
take my pencil drawings and make them
into something and he threw that
together for me
i would want to do with that garage door
is put a totally flat door on it
um
i i know that uh one of you had
mentioned you liked the glass in the
doors i wasn't going to do that
i don't think in this particular project
you need that i just was asking the
question because
if you know to me
it's the whole package that
if this was going to be successful
the whole the garage and the whatever's
on top of it
and that's what i liked about that
that picture is that
um you know i agree with everything
everybody said sure and i for life me i
don't know why you wouldn't want to face
into your yard rather than out but
um and i understand the sunset but
whatever i i just what i do like about
this even though it doesn't represent
probably what the ultimate solution is
going to be is that there's a uniformity
to the garage and what's on top of it
that
it you know just makes more sense
okay
great thank you very much for the input
[Music]
all right okay so um i'll be brief but
to me it
i think you have some creative ideas but
the execution is not there for me um one
because i feel like the existing garage
itself
needs a little sprucing up like more
windows like better doors um you know
just
i do finally change to the bottom half
of the garage and then
i worry that you're creating a stage
okay so what that you're creating a
stage basically when you're up there and
you're
partying you're on a stage and so your
neighbors will be
i'll be honest with you i'm not going to
have a party there i'm not the party
person okay even
if i'm your neighbor and i'm in my
backyard sitting in the sun and i look
up and i see you it's
it's just a little odd okay that you're
that you're out
it makes your garage feel like a stage
okay i'm sure if you i think there's
actually ways you could do it though and
like for me it could be
where you do some like gable proof
pergola on top of it you mimic the shape
of its of a um of a roof line and then
you know out of wood or something and
then it gets some sliding to it
we have approved other garages that have
a second floor like this to it
but you have to get very creative on how
you use um you know
your lines and your products and the
other thing i don't really see how this
um relates to your house at all a lot of
times we're looking for things that that
tie it back to the house that make it
seem appropriate so if you're going to
move forward with it i'd like to see the
lines of your house and see how you're
kind of tying it in so that they relate
to each other and maybe it's a you know
a pergola or something that attaches the
two or just something that you're doing
on the back of the house that is also on
the roof so
um
yeah i don't see that it's very hard to
evaluate because
the bottom of it the bottom half of it
doesn't look like you've really done any
work to it that you're just putting up
something ah you should have seen it
before i started that
really really a mess
what's that
so at this point um would you like us to
put it to a vote if we vote no on it you
don't have the ability to come back if
you want to come back next month we can
table it
and um
well i mean
i you you certainly
you s you certainly have have said
you'll vote no and i i understand that
um
uh and i'm not interested in wasting
your time particularly um i
certainly can't come back in a month
with anything different
uh i don't have that kind of
resources
um
i'm not building a million dollars
so um
if you wanted to choose two months from
now you could come back in two months
you're gonna choose three months
if you want to table it then
no i mean just no no just go ahead and
turn me down it's fine um
[Music]
it's going to take a while for me to
noodle through something that seems
reasonable that i think would pass
three of you i don't know i honestly
you're making it very difficult so
i think you've heard a lot of great
ideas
i understand i understand but
potentially you could table it
indefinitely and come back whenever you
want to
then you don't have to pay for another
well within a year right yeah if you
want to table it indefinitely then you
get something if you don't get around to
it and it just falls off the table yeah
well it's fine we can table it um
does that mean you want a table board
meeting as well
yeah it seems somewhat silly to
waste everybody's time
uh sure
[Music]
for the table yes
ms crosby cable yes mr paul
yes
thank you
good luck
okay uh next application number aov
22-15 the address is 4.99 north drexel
the applicant is brenda parker owner is
mark and cat rhodes
applicants requesting architectural
review and approval
and a certificate of appropriateness for
a second floor edition above the
existing attached garage for a new rec
room
single story edition in front of the
house to expand the master suite and
create a new portico
hey
um
this this project is here for
architectural humanely
um i actually um even debated putting
this on a consent agenda item list i i
think it's really pretty well done
um uh the concern that was brought to my
attention was this elevation
that and i do think steps back correct
no the two gables are flush and the
entrance is stepped back
this is the front
so um
the one on the right is an addition
one on the left is existing
and that's interesting so
i just wondered if there was a better
way to do it so it says
it has
an emphasis on the front door then it
feels almost like
two little bookends instead that there
was maybe some
that's east and west elevations
the the west is actually of the garage
which is way on the other side of the
house
okay i was wondering because the
ridgelines don't match okay
please state your name brenda parker do
you swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
yes thank you
you want to give us a little more
explanation of what the project entails
yes so um this is um
story and a half
house
um on north drexel
gosh six or seven years ago we did a
dormer on the back so that they could
get
a full bathroom and and two proper
bedrooms in the upstairs in the main
house
um and they only have kind of a small
living dining kitchen area and so
they're really their kids are
you know getting to be toddlers and
they're really looking for just a nice
rec room space and so
they wanted to do a second floor above
the garage
that could serve as just kind of a rec
room space office
potential guest space etc
and then they want to take the two
existing bedrooms on the first floor and
convert those to a master suite
they also wanted to
improve the portico
of the existing house or
improve the front of the house
so as part of taking those two existing
bedrooms and turning them into a master
suite
it gives them a better suite if we
bumped out the front of the house
which kind of sets up a little bit more
of an a covered entrance
and so that was the reason for the
addition is to give them more space and
just to get um
give the front a little bit more
interest
than the existing
stoop provides
um so that's kind of the general scope
so i i played with the front elevation
um
pretty extensively
um
to try to get the homeowners on board
with having it enough of an interest
versus
it kind of still being a little bit
plain on
on the front so
i do have the only version other version
i could come up with that looks halfway
decent is really just extending the shed
roof
kind of across that edition and i have a
print of that if
we wanted to look at an alternate yeah i
mean we'll let the board members speak
to i have mixed feelings about it
because i live in german village we have
like cottages like this
often put together
that create this condition like two
houses that are bought
um so this is not an unusual
motif to me
um so i did really
is
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about this
um
board member that let's go first
i can go first
so i think um
what's a little weird to me is
like the fact that those two
geez those two aren't the same height or
like the same size so it just looks off
and it's gonna read off if it's built
that way
and i don't know
how to fix that but i i understand
you're struggling with it because it's
not the same it's probably not the same
distance in terms of width and
perhaps you just need to look at a
different way of of doing that bump out
with that porch but
that that's going to be weird and people
are going to see that and they're going
to be like i mean it's going to look
weird
um so i think that's my
that's really the the thing that's um
i would say
bothers me the most
um
i think that's all i'm gonna talk about
but
that one just like hit me right away
um
my
my concern with the the front elevation
is
and this would have been the case no
matter what you
did
for a one-story thing on the front which
you obviously looked at and
tried to come up with a solution
the the reason why i say that is because
the rest of this house is of a different
scale
the garage with the new rec room above
is now
on the scale of something very different
than your front elevation
and even the main house with its gable
ends either side and the shed roof the
pop-up dormer that's on the back
it you've turned it into something very
different from what's on the front
so
i would recommend that you look at
the idea of taking this bump out and
creating a gable
that actually comes up
and then you have this asymmetric
porch
you know on the corner of this new large
gable right and if you wanted you could
even open that up to the second floor
and you'd have a second floor space
above there right to get a window in
there i didn't i didn't i didn't take it
that far because you would gain the
space you would probably be the same
cost because here you're building this
little roof you know you're doing all
this detail work and instead you just
build this gable pop it through to the
house i mean obviously there's you know
valley rafters you have to deal with and
all that but
instead of an overlay roof but you would
gain extra space you would create the
scale
of what's going on in the rest of the
house and then this becomes secondary
yeah that's a good
good solution
and then i think you i think the rest of
it it's all about little details you
know the little bird's mouth eaves and
making sure you're matching what's on
the you know
making them consistent
but i think it's a great house i i love
the proportions of
everything that you're doing in the back
and the way that the connector works
but making that front have a gable
that's more in proportion with the other
the way the house is now would be a huge
benefit yeah once you point that out it
seems obvious right
so that's i mean other stuff that you're
doing here i just
i would say that if you make that change
and come back to us or you know look at
a way to make that work and come back to
us everything else will just fall into
place ms booker can help you with some
of the little details because these
houses are so
they have so much character to them and
when we use the computers we we lose
that character
so it's important that i think the board
understands you know some of those yeah
these are simple details
a lot of these sort of cape cod houses
have simple details and some of them
have been changed over the years they're
not the original details
but
i would i would just make sure that
you're being consistent as you carry as
you carry through but
okay so it's a lovely house
yes
um
i have no problem with the two-story
edition in the back of the garage and
actually i think that really helps with
the scale and the character of
everything going on
um and i all the comments so far on this
front i think are very valid
i would however even suggest even with
the roof and i don't know how the
setbacks are working here from a bza
perspective or whatever but
the existing house has this bump out on
it on the lower side
so instead of lining the new addition up
with that maybe even pop that out to
accentuate this this idea this roof
coming up and over
and i would even suggest maybe even
looking at you know does the door really
still work recessed always all the way
back into the house because i think if
you really even pull that out you would
create a little more of a foyer here
when you walk into the house too so
there might be an
added benefit with that yeah i think we
we did pull it forward i think i left
three feet enough to get a covering yeah
um but yeah it is pulled out as well
compared to where it is today
but i think whatever he's trying to say
is make this new addition like yeah
emphasize it more and make it more
architectural in your face i guess right
make it feel i think more story and a
half than the single story that it looks
like right now
and then i you know because what jumps
out of me immediately i get the scale
and everything but the two windows on
both sides are different too
so um that's where i think if you just
you accept the fact that this wants to
be a little bit different than the other
i think you're going to be more
successful
yes
i agree with all that
sounds like we're tabling
redraw it come back
yeah
specific date of may 12th
yeah okay great and we don't have to
send out a notice and
i i do have one other idea that
you know just throw it in based on mr
hall's comments
but
you know even if the pitch is different
why not
you know just do one
just do try one i mean if you did one
you'd still open up to the second floor
you could even then you could put a you
could still have your recessed porch you
could even put another porch on it you
know bigger one encroached ten feet into
the front setback with an open porch
more money but
yeah
determine yeah depending what the
average setback is
now you know that and then if the porch
would help to hide all the differences
in windows because you'd have the peers
that would do it but that's a very
that's a very different kind of yeah
that's going to be a scope and a scale
they're not going to want to take on and
i don't know what the scale of the other
houses are next to it i don't remember
but if they're cottagy
then having the big gable is probably
over the top just
i just thought i'd throw it out there
because it would certainly go with the
side elevations
okay so are you okay with the table yes
okay is there someone that will make a
motion so moved
second
i will call mr hall
yes
sakosky yes
yes
see you next month thank you
okay our last application for the
evening is
number arb
that was
yeah arv 22-17 be zapped 22-15
the address is 694 south cassingham
the applicant is michael lang the owner
is michael lang
the applicant is requesting a
recommendation to be zapped for
architectural review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for an
addition to the rear of the second floor
over the existing first floor footprint
and kitchen remodel
okay
um and just to clarify and kathleen
correct me if i'm wrong this has a b zap
and an arb number because it was first
filed as an arb
application
not knowing that
even though he has no additional
footprint it is an already
non-conforming structure so what's going
to be asked for for a variance is what's
above what's already there
we're not here to discuss that we're
just here to discuss the architecture
and either recommend it or not
for a certificate of appropriateness an
architectural review of visa
um
this
uh the
the only thing i have already discussed
with mr lane is a die pronounce that
right
is um my concern over feathering in
materials like materials to what is
already there with materials
and
i think it's exciting
yeah it's a party board during the same
plane
um so we've talked that and he talked
through that
um he's very confident that he can do it
i think you can speak to that the roof
material is
um maybe not new but it's jewish it's
five years old
that's relatively new
seems like yesterday um
i also
talked to him let me break up
the elevation
about
the facade that has no window
um that it would be nice to uh together
so this already has no window this is
existing below correct correct me if i'm
wrong yeah no it's a very tight sight
line there so there are no windows below
so we did not replicate a window above
but that's an easy ad what yeah
we're going to swear you and just i'm
sorry no that's okay start asking
questions
you're about to give this evening is the
truth i do
okay so um
we talked about the fact that there
already are no windows in the existing
portion and we talked about how close it
is to the avery property but you know we
had some discussion about maybe
lines or shades or just as good of a way
to
privacy and then allow you in some light
and some interest on that wall i think
he agreed
well the overlooking neighbors here so
if he has anything to say
he could speak up tonight but i mean
yeah that's an easy ad and frankly we
would like that
for what that space is it's a bedroom
it's the master bedroom so having more
light
would be beneficial
um
really i don't have anything else to add
i'm going to give it to you to speak to
the project here um anything you want to
add that i may have forgotten but those
are my concerns are how to connect
materials to what's existing making sure
that everything is feathered in
correctly with the roof and and how are
you for the matches it is
great
sorry
did you do siding well yeah there's new
hardy on the lower edition so we'll
continue that in the same elevation and
plane and obviously no band boards no
piece together work and same deal um
i know the shingle it's five years old
it's an iko harvard slate so i mean if
it doesn't feather in well we will
replace that entire slope on both sides
i mean we've waited 22 years to do this
so
we're going to do it with you know nice
details and
to the best best we can so basically
it's a second floor edition over these
this existing footprint there is an
existing bump out in the rear which is a
part of the kitchen that is a brick on
brick
construction and then there is added in
the 1950s
frame edition in the back so we're going
up over both of those
it's a 3-1 it'll be a 3-2 when we're
done which will be very nice
and then it'll have a panned window in
the back
much less it has a panned window in the
front so we're mimicking the detail from
the front to the back um
and then you know the elevation view so
there's a walkout
uh
i guess roof that you could sit on a low
slope flat lock roof um that we've never
sat on once um so we'll be building up
over that there's already a dormer on
the one side it is a walk up third floor
but that is out of scope we're not doing
anything up there except adding a pan
window to let some light in for
nice storage up there and better access
so there's your um existing pergola
there but you'll see that's the framed
structure from the 50s and then offset
is the kitchen bump out if you will
that's original to the house
awesome
uh who would like to go first
i have to ask the ridge of the existing
structure
you're just simply
continuing the same height yes it's not
that was one of the variances regarding
the height well it's yeah 36 foot six
inches apparently
um and i think the standard's 36
required this story is not to exceed 35
feet
okay so it's
six inches
too tall and one foot too close
yeah
that's that's what the zoning will deal
with hopefully okay
sorry that's fine
um
one of the things that jumps out to me
and i don't know why and i'm trying to
get over it is this
this little back porch and you have one
five pound bracket hanging on the edge
of it um
it looks good on the north elevation but
when you look at the
rear elevation it looks like it needs
it i think it needs for symmetry it
needs another one that was a re that was
a recent ad so i think we would need
another to make it look like it was
designed to be there that that jumps out
at me right away and then
i do
i think it's a pretty simple addition
and you're just sort of extending off
the back of the house and you know
you're almost just stretching the house
i guess
that's how i would describe it and i
think that's done well
um
i do agree on the south elevation if we
get some get some windows in there it
seems like that would sort of
help loosen that up a little bit
um and then the double back door that's
coming off you know it's just
i would recommend you got these little
coverings over all these other doors and
entrances and next exits i think having
something like that there might be a
nice little yeah a little metal awning
type roof would be pretty nice for that
that was kind of
in the in the mindset but
hasn't made it to the drawing so if we
do a symmetrical bracket um yeah all
those are good design recommendations
that's all right
i agree with all that
and i think it's that pergola with that
i don't know what that vine is wisteria
is it 35 from lowe's 21 years ago yeah
that's amazing
it's such a cool looking
piece
so very cool but yeah i i agree with all
the comments that it but keith made
um
i guess it's my turn i
uh
one of the things that we talk about as
an arb
is
how the
massing of the houses
the original house has additions that
are always subservient
to the original house
in this case i'm kind of torn because
you're
giving the effect of extending the mass
of the original house
but everybody knows it's not because of
the material change
and
so
why didn't you want to do brick
um well cost for one number two 1928
coal-fired wire cut brick is going to be
awfully hard to match
i'd give it a try but i mean we're
talking i mean i certainly can i got to
step back my footer
meet the elevations
i can certainly do it over the kitchen
portion
um and again there is siding on the
front of the house it's not that it
doesn't have siding
so it does have a blend of materials
from the start right so i mean i think
those are two
um
obvious reasons it's not inconsistent
with what the house had it had a mix of
media already
so there there's a num a number of
issues with you know trying to extend
a new uh condition space
where it's flush and if you look at your
plan
you
get a sense of that right away because
the stud wall of the new
in your bedroom you've doubled your stud
wall
because you want to continue the clean
line of the inside but the other side
you have an offset
and structurally that doesn't work you
it has to be tied in
and so well there's an eight inch i just
got the engineering back there's an
eight inch beam carrying that wall so
that'll the bearing will be there for
that that return wall there but you you
have you have a stud wall here and a
stud wall here and you have a very
dangerous joint you know between the two
from from a from a long-term maintenance
standpoint that is a it's a dangerous
detail and i i don't mean that in a
an aggressive way i'm just saying that
you know
that would have to be flashed all the
way up and down
you know in order to keep the water from
getting in there because you're going to
have movement and that whole joint is
going to come apart
yeah i mean
i work in construction i work for a real
estate company i actually assess
buildings um all throughout the country
well i mean
these are all excellent points and
you're absolutely right mixed media is
the little shrink it's green it's gonna
get brick will not brick is settled it's
28 years old so bringing these things
together definitely takes a lot of
attention to detail and
good set of plans
i mean my recommendation would be
because the brick at the corner
um
you know you you don't want you're going
to have you're going to have headers and
stretchers
at this corner
you know when you cut the brick from the
back side
well
you that's the wrong elevation that well
down here you'd be cutting well that's
the front of the house so you'd have oh
sorry yeah at the back of that we need a
different picture yeah but the idea that
the idea is the same you're cutting
you're cutting those bricks in order to
get your new wall to be flush you have
to do that
and my suggestion is what we recommend
to most people who are putting an
addition on is
let the full brick
return okay that four inches
and have your stud walls line up with
the stud walls that are in the house
you're gonna have a stronger you're
gonna have a better d a stronger frame
you're gonna have a better detail and
you're gonna have a little bit of an
offset at the roof which
is not going to hurt the design of the
house in any way it's actually going to
make
the the addition
work complementarily with the brick
house that's there so you want a four
inch offset wherever a wood stud wall
adjoins the brick
just on the you know where you're coming
off the back you just step in the stuff
you've already got it on the bedroom you
know you've got an additional wall just
step it in so that the stud walls align
yeah the only thing that gives me is now
i have a condition i have to flash the
top of the brick of the existing area
but that's not a big deal for me and
then at the roof you have a little
valley because your roof is going to be
set in
you see yeah sometimes i'm not too
concerned about those details that's
going to be a cleaner detail um so all
yeah as long as everyone's i um and
again my front is slightly offset it's
probably two inch offset the siding from
the brick anyway so that's consistent as
well right and that's probably because
you have a crown here that needs to die
into something and all this stuff has to
die into something
and the tolerances of when the when as
you know a builder gets out there
you know what's allowable tolerance is
in construction it depends it could be
eighth inch be quarter inch could be a
full inch right so if you have that
offset it gives you breathing room no i
like the offset um i think it's a good
idea and it takes your variance to the
side you're down to only three inches
which sounds better
if we did it going in the right
direction
if we went in eight inches we'd get rid
of the variants and we could just do
architecture
make some pretty
no but the ridge is coming down no well
no the ridge would have to continue now
the ridges the ridge is the same way
we're continuing the ridge line now
that's what i'm saying though is if you
pull the walls in then you're pulling
the state you're keep the same pitch
and you're going to have oh you're going
to have a step down
you want me to do an offset yep
and it gets rid of your variance
do we think the variance is the big
concern
i'm just saying it's you know it's i
mean it's an advantage yeah i mean i
mean
we didn't draw this yesterday it's been
a process uh with the design committee
which is at home so i mean i'm reluctant
to uh go back
uh to the design committee for review
and then also so the force the inch
offset on the walls 100 percent agree
it's not a standard width lot i mean
this is a 40 foot wide line standards
usually 50. um i didn't know that when i
bought it in 2000. i'm not that
concerned about the variance kathy can
speak to this better than me
what what mr heyer saying is you
wouldn't have to go to another board i'm
not concerned about the other part but
how you did i
tried to get the offset but i guess i
can explain it the right way but i mean
yeah sorry
i think if you if you wanted to not go
to another board i'm i'm not afraid of
another board meeting um i'm i'm
again i've been a roofer a long time
having a step down
different height i'd rather not have
that i'd rather have one uniform as much
uniform as
performing as i can have in a hip roof
show me the elevation again on the uh
on the side here the side with the no
window which is now going to have a
window
okay
so with a hip stepping it down i've had
gables an offset gable i think would
look pretty good but i'd have to offset
that i have to build it out and knock it
down i just think that needs to stay
kind of in that plane the roof it does
the offset on the walls can be offset
there can just be a slightly deeper
soffit there which i don't think would
look bad at all
i mean again the idea of the roof
defining being defined by the brick
facade is no longer going to be there
you're going to have a roof that
is going to you
know look like it was supposed to be you
know it's it's going over two different
buildings it's the same roof going over
two different things
that's what bothers me and that's why we
don't see that much of that in bexley
where where
you would you would do the step in so
that you accentuate the main house with
the roof
um
trying to think
i mean if you did the deeper soffit you
would have the continuous roof you're
only talking about four inches
so i i don't disagree with you with
about the massing i don't disagree with
you so the thought is i could do a thin
brick veneer um i wouldn't need to
expand the footer um however i'm not a
big fan of that and i'm also i know i
can't get anything that's going to match
that wire cut clear brick no the the
four the four inch setback um on each
side
and
give you a cleaner flashing detail the
roof having the deeper soffit where the
siding is
i mean
obviously i would prefer to see the roof
define the brick
area and have to step down on the ridge
in order to make that happen that's what
we would that's what i'm going to
recommend
because you want you want a secondary
hip frame to where the shaving is right
and then drop down
a four inch offset from
this wall is four inches back from this
well actually the stud walls are in line
the interior stud walls are the anterior
circles
but this roof is also four inches back
from this roof and that pulls this ridge
down for the addition
it ties into the existing ridge
you're just not running it
flush which i think is also going to
give you a more tolerance for your
builder he's going to have you know some
flexibility there and then you just have
to if you flash that valley but it makes
this roof continue to
be
defining this original house
and then all of this stuff is
subservient to it
that's what i'm going to recommend
that's what we would tell other people
who want to do these continuous
and we've had success with you know the
the
additions you know being set in
and all you're losing are four inches on
each side
and
i'm not losing any square foot unless
you've complicated the roof because now
i have to tie into the ridge but i can
figure that out well so that that's all
that you know that's and it's a weird
it's a weird roof detail
but i'm thinking about as a roofer so
architecturally i'm okay with it we're
basically we're we're peeling that apart
offsetting it
in total
i don't have a problem with that
architecturally
because if that makes it more agreeable
to everybody it doesn't quite get me out
of the variance though but but it's it's
an improvement
it would be an improvement in the eyes
of the zoning board
okay
the other nice thing four inches
i mean is that is there space yeah is
there space up here
that you're you you're going to have us
yeah okay you're happy enough i mean
some more dry storage especially with
the basement conditions in baxley um
we'd like some more dry storage up in
the up in there but yeah there's no
there's no finished space up there so
there's really just
um i gotta redo the plan i gotta redo
the engineering a little bit for the
ridge um but that's no big deal
can you also explain i mean i i'm not
familiar with this term of a panned
window
reverse dormer if you will so it'll have
a membrane roof um the front roof is a
is um metal so i'll probably do metal as
well over a membrane so we'll do a
membrane with a metal snap lock panel
over the top
so it's an inset window so if you go to
uh the plan view it's just cut in
i'm not sure i would call it reverse
dormer
pan window
oh oh you mean you mean there's a pan
here because this this is set back it's
just cut out
okay
isn't that funny
well this is something new every day
this is construction we call everything
by 14 different names yeah i mean i've
been doing this for 25 years now i've
never heard of a pancake
yeah i know i call that a reverse dormer
jen calls it a panned window
that's where the teenagers like to hang
out right they sit out there
hopefully not
well i have no teenagers anymore they're
out there
okay said it
okay so um
are we asking him to come back then with
these changes or are we okay letting
karen handle it i'm very fine with it if
we can recommend it and see if he can
provide that
with the conditions
yeah are you okay with that so the
conditions is unclear karen you have
good notes right so the conditions the
four inch offset
where my siding walls are and a four
inch offset as well dropping the ridge
height and the roof so the offset as
evidenced by the shading there is a four
inch offset universally and we asked for
another window and a window in the
bedroom so another single hung like we
have in pattern would that work
four inches
the ridge wood
no the ridge would drop more than four
inches because it's on a slope
you know the geometry will just so it's
basically a four inch offset here and
then that'll be like four and a half
yeah
and then mr hall recommended that this
guy
maybe you do two of them here or
something like that you
know i think one on each side of the
window
well the nice thing is is once this is
four inches back you could line up that
bracket with the wall
and then you could do another one the
opposite or you know you could just have
the one out here i think it would be
fine
was that a conditioner i think those are
more recommendations from my perspective
not too
let me define what i said
findings for arb
22-17
easy ap 22-15 for 694 south cassingham
the board recommends design approved to
the board of zoning and planning with
the condition that the
addition be offset from the north and
south sides of the original plan and
that the
roof we stepped down
and just so i'm clear you want an inset
on the brick as well so if we're doing a
four inch offset where it meets the
brick where i have my brick kitchen
existing i have to be set four inches
back there too as well right
this is existing so they'll be they'll
you'll have to do um four inches back on
this side i'll need to be four inches
back on this side to be offset here
orange is here that's correct
and then you'll have you'll have a
detail to work out over flashing detail
in a step not a big deal
and then the windows on this side wall
is that just
is that another condition
on the south elevation
research window
second floor edition of window
what wall is that north or south that's
south
and it's windows
so do you want so you want one on the
first floor too like a
fix like an awning style window like i
have in pattern because i have a you
know we have a bookcase there now i can
adjust but i can put in a
short height window
that is existing yes
okay okay just on the second floor yeah
well you can't make me do anything to my
existing house is that how it goes
it would make it better
um
the only people who see that view
is daryl
do you want to come up and be sworn in
so that you don't force him you'll see
him in a couple months yet he's just
getting notes that's
the natural light would be nice
yeah i mean on the second floor second
floor yes
sex first floor role they'll make it as
a recommendation to the design committee
uh
yeah
recommend
yes
um
i'm sorry can i say one more thing
i just have to say this you don't
the the the forge step in is not i don't
think it's required
at the at the back elevation
uh yeah because i i am using that for
bearing that wall there it's double with
bricks
it's all about the side conditions so if
i set it back on the sides i don't need
to set it off on the back no thank you
right this doesn't need to be set back
it's just the north and south side so if
you could i mean we already voted on
this but and then you might want to have
a little canopy over your doors for
protection
the north and south sides are set
four inches
the east elevation is not
see he's got brick existing brick down
here
oh it's already set back right right
never mind it's it's that's a four foot
offset from the other room
anyway
the conditions are good yeah
okay
thank you so um
not that it's not been a pleasure so
with this recommendation if i get the
bees app i don't have to come back as
long as karen's okay just so i
understand the process
okay great hey by the way thank you very
much for what you do
i know you assaulted them
i thought you already
i know it's late but thank you for what
you do it sure it's unappreciated by
many but it's appreciated by me thank
you
and i'm a journey