e
e e
are you good
everyone get their
own like to call to order the January
9th
2025 Architectural Review Board uh
meeting can we get roll call
please here Hall here Mr H here Mr Scott
here Jones here
okay uh we have uh two months of October
and November's minutes as the board had
a chance to review the minutes uh and if
there's any
comments hear them
now no comments do we have a motion to
approve minutes so moved
hire second
call Mr coun you turn your mic
on here
no yes all right it's okay Mr hire uh
yes Mr Hall yes Miss Jones yes Mr Scott
chairman
Scott uh this is the part of the the
meeting where uh we provide time for
public comment for any uh anyone that
wants to address the board that's not
related to an agenda item is there
anybody here that wants to address the
board tonight
seeing none uh we'll move to uh item
five the consent agenda items we have
three projects tonight on consent agenda
uh application ARB 2452 at 2700 Sherwood
applicant is Brenda Parker owner is Mark
Bargo application ARB
2455 at 795 South cassingham applicant
is Daniel Mayer owners Max and Christina
busing application ARB
2457 at uh address is 743 Montrose
applicant is Amy lower house owner is
Kathy Ean and uh Brett
Tuttle uh has the board reviewed these
consent agenda items and is there any
final
comments just to uh follow the design
guidelines as for usual yes and I'll
just comment for the record that there
were several board members who had some
suggestions and conditions and every one
of them was accepted in order to be on
the consent agenda and I think I put
them in the into the staff report which
by the way is misdated I apologize it's
January 9th it's not November
14th we have a motion to
approve motion to approve Hall second
Jones Mr H yes Mr cun
Mr Hall yes Miss Jones chairman Scott
yes there are uh next agenda items uh
actually are two applications that have
been tabled uh for the record we'll read
through those uh Bap 2437 at 2775 towel
applicant is Brian Shepard owner is uh
Brian and Kate Shepard and application
ARB
2451 at 653 eclair applicant is David
lip owner is David lip
those projects have both been tabled to
a future meetings correct to February
13th for the
record so if anybody's here for either
of those cases they won't be heard today
but they'll be heard on February
13 it takes us to Old business uh we
have one application under old business
Bap
2435 470 South Parkview applicant is
Santiago Alvarez owner is Jana Clark we
have report
please okay this application is before
the board for the second time um just by
way of reminder we heard this case at
the November meeting November yes we did
not meet in December but
um did not render either a positive or
negative recommendation but forwarded it
on to Bap um to determine if the
variance was okay it was voted uh it was
approved at Bap not unanimously but it
was approved at bap app so it's back
here for a review that we asked to be
conditioned on the final design review
coming back here um in terms of the uh
architecture a lot has changed um just
to remind you it was kind of a modern
Edition um kind of just it's it's very
different I'm sure you guys will will
see that um I still think there's quite
a bit of detail that's missing I'm
comfortable with after the Board review
and and I've spoken with the applicant
about this um with either um conditions
that I will take good notes on uh and an
approval that I review those changes or
a table if the board feels that they
would like to see the details come back
but I have gone over this in detail with
the applicant and assured her that she
can move on given that the the floor
plan and the mass thing has been
approved for its zoning that it won't
slow them down one way or the other they
can go ahead with construction documents
but I pointed out a few things the
board's better at this than me so I'll
just point out a few but for example
like the covering over the new entrance
door I'm not really sure how that's
constructed there's just some details
that I think the board will want to talk
about um I do appreciate that they went
ahead and mimicked some of the details
of the original House some of the
Dormers uh Windows window sizes um and
it seems much more appropriate uh we did
talk a little bit about um and and while
we don't regulate color normal we do on
something that comes before this board I
think we might want to discuss some of
the the um trim color details that might
be better to match the original house
and I I don't know how the board feels
about the dark blue but that's all up
for discussion so I I won't do any more
design review but we'll we'll have you
um the applicant comeing up and the the
architect applicant owner anyone who
wants to
speak anyone that wants to speak please
be sworn in you hit the green my
inform do you swear affirm the testimony
you give this evening will be the truth
thank you can you guys State all your
names
please Justin
Clark Jana Clark Santiago
Alvarez can we start by thanking
everyone for being here supportive
us that's good uh so please uh if you
have any updates that you want to
present tonight on the on the changes
you've made and uh anything you want to
inform the board before we go to public
comment and then uh board
comment anything you want to add or I
think we made all the changes that were
asked of us or we tried to yeah um yeah
you know I think we went back looked at
the guidelines and you know really tried
to pull out as many elements from the
existing building as um for existing
home as possible to you know try to make
a cohesive um
final design I think the biggest
feedback was the massing or the I don't
know the words subordinate to the that's
right keeping it subordinate to the main
structure and I feel like the design
changes he made does
that okay thank you uh is anyone in the
public here that has standing that would
like to come up and speak to the board
about this specific
project seeing none uh I'll open it up
to the
board um first of all I can commend you
guys for you know taking the effort to
really change the design from what we
looked at um back in
November I I can tell you've made a lot
of progress and so appreciate that um
you know I think as Karen mentioned
there are some some details that
probably still need to be worked out um
I do
appreciate how you've changed some of
the window types to reference back to
the original house there are a couple of
little things um like the small little
transom Windows kind of above the garage
that have horizontal light
divisions um that's something that
generally we like to see as vertical so
just a minor note and then as it
pertains to color I do think buying it
kind of more closely back to the
original house so maybe picking up on
that trim color and utilizing that as
you're siding instead of the blue um but
just you know some small points of
feedback thank
you um I would Echo for statements um I
guess a question I would have in
exploring I have this thing concerns
about color where I look at where the
new meeting the old I think that could
some
location there some odd ju the positions
thank you um that you might look at in
the future and say oh that's not exactly
what we meant um have you explored any
colored elevations or adding color to
the model
itself um a little bit and mainly was
the the the kind of bluish um I think it
was evening blue I was looking at but I
did look at that like a green more
earthy tone I think maybe because it was
November I was thinking like green and
red brick I was like oh man I got really
got Christmas on the Mind do that um but
I you know I think you know those those
tones tie in pretty well um so you know
that's another color palette that I
like yeah I think we're open to color I
don't think we're married to
anything a lot less expensive to change
in a rendering than it is to paint it
and not like it
yes um yeah and then I have this some of
the same concerns about just details
where one piece of trim might meet the
sighting like how is that exactly being
handled um the overhang above the second
entrance I think is um feels a
little um Canal levered it doesn't feel
like it's being supported by anything I
think perhaps maybe echoing some of the
brackets that you're using over above
the um brow elements above the SE the
garage doors might be nice um it it's
certainly not needed for engineering
purposes but just from a visual
standpoint other than that I think it
looks
good Mr
Hall um yeah I think this has come a
long way I think uh we had a lot of
comments that came out about massing the
last time around and everything and I
think that's that's been responded to um
very well I think the uh um it's in the
details at this point there there are
you've heard the comments there's you
know the trim there's
some just in the drawings there's some
areas where there might be some trim
that's probably there that's not shown
on the
drawings um the one question I have is a
little bit is the um at the end of this
the uh the roof is more of a a hip and
that really doesn't exist on the
existing residence um but maybe kind of
studying just pulling that out to a
full-on
Gable um but I also I struggle with that
a little bit because then what the what
the hip does is it does um sort of
deemphasize what the you know the
addition so it does make it subservient
to the uh the main house so um just some
thoughts on my mind with that I agree
with the little entrance canopy that's
over the uh the front door um or the
side door here um and it kind of looks
like it's cleever or just sort of stuck
in there I think that needs to be
addressed and then um but generally
speaking I I'm comfortable with handing
this over to the uh design consultant to
to kind of help through
it Mr hire yeah thank you for the
presentation and for the changes that
were made I know a lot of effort went
into this so I appreciate that very much
um you're not considering painting this
or having it white with black windows or
is that out of style now no um so thank
you
for uh the the only thing I would
recommend with color is that um the
contrast between your trim boards and
the main body color I think it could be
more subtle uh only because it'll take
away from the beauty of the main house
by not having them be a little bit um
more related to each other instead of
the stark white and blue I think that
that was popular for a while too but um
I think more natural feeling is more
Bexley um uh the porch that's uh in
front of the door the entry the
secondary entry with the side lights
what is that going to be made of and
that is uh this thing right here this
this porch how are you going to how you
building that is that
stone uh I was thinking it was just it
would be wood
framed um because you got stone that is
your band at the ground level for the
house and for the
addition it would really tie in nicely
if that was a poured concrete even if it
had a stone facing to it um where the
stone was set in and the rest was even
just concrete it would be a it would be
a cleaner
detail um less maintenance too in the
long run I think I think in the last
iteration the porch was a lot bigger and
it was more of a deck yeah now it's more
of a porch a little bit of a carryover
yeah I think with your when you pour
your foundations that it'll really make
sense to do that in concrete and stone
sure um the canopy yeah I I think you
could just build something instead of I
get what you're doing you want to have
coverage over the whole Terrace that
little Terrace there so um yeah I would
just consider possibly matching what
you're doing on the at the garage as
well the other things are really I mean
I'm not going to I mean everybody here's
used to me nitpicking but I'm not going
to I'm going to leave it up to uh the
design consultant to work out the
details for some of your overhangs you
know being more related I mean it's hard
in a SketchUp model to really see
exactly what's going on but as long as
the details are working with the
original house at least showing some
sympathy to the details on the original
house light
fixtures um brick work and things like
that that's all I have great thank you
I agree with uh almost everything maybe
everything that's been said tonight so
definitely an improvement I like the
massing breakup between the two houses
and the addition um you know I think uh
was said earlier uh at first you know
your transome MTS need to be vertical
the spacing of the glasses need to be
vertical not horizontal that's a pretty
traditional uh approach to that um and
then I I think if you would zoom in
maybe the perspective would be better
but um
C can I just ask a question since you um
my int just because I'm going to be
reviewing this my gut is just take out
the mutton bars and those because none
nothing else on the house has them yeah
I think to your your third floor I think
there there are some oneoff ones that
the front sorry interrupt but I just
want to make sure that you know I'm
clear when
I it might be in the photo I might not
yeah okay but they're not horizontal
those actually need to replace anyway so
maybe we can match Square would be okay
if they're matching the front just not
hor and then I think might oh I see okay
they're in the
windows two two proportional items and I
know uh just the front the the right
there the elevation of the garage so
there's the Dormer uh relationship to I
know you're recreating the one that's in
the front of the house but the
conditions are a little bit different
here one that the the it's a new
construction it's obviously going to be
new construction compared to the the
front of the house uh and the window
configuration is much more dense in that
Dormer on the front and the relationship
to that to the basically your rake and
small fascia on the clipped Gable and I
like the massing of that uh feels a
little heavier here than it does on the
front it's the same proportion I think
you so you just took that which in one
way I appreciate but I feel like here it
needs to be a little bit more elegant uh
because of what's happening with the
faes around this and and and the
thinness of the of the the canopy above
the garage so I think it just feels a
little heavy to me okay and then the the
your trim above the windows and how it
kind of haphazardly cuts uh with the
trim that's on the underside of the
Eve on the left and the right
uh
oh I I know what you're talking like
where T they
touch yeah so just above the window
where it's it's the the trim of the
under the Eve is kind of stopping at the
middle of the window is it is it is it
you know where they they're actually
touching to me just becomes kind of a
halfhazard condition I get that it's
Center so that's I appreciate that um
so I'd be interested in looking and
exploring ways to kind of get those to
work a little bit better but again it's
these are Minor Details of of how this
thing will come together and finish and
I also understand why I think based on
the existing Stone why the canopy above
the door is so high and it's a different
plane um but in elevation at least you
would think that that maybe is the same
continuation idea of what's over your
garage doors um and that would lower it
down in front so I think I would be
interested in looking at getting it less
slab like and a little bit more sloped
and and it you know you have to deal
with how the stone I'm assuming is
wrapping that corner there but um I
don't think it needs columns I think if
you can make it work and have a little
because it's not terribly deep I think
that'll help unify all those roofs
together because now there there's two
of the same and one that's actually very
different even if it's the same material
and I again I don't think they have to
match exactly I think it's just has to
be a little bit more the same
flavor so
um can I upt you or are you hey okay
because sorry it was my fault I talked
to um J before this meeting a couple
days ago and she also asked that we um
consider um allowing them to do asphalt
shingles instead of metal on the new
roof um I suggested that you bring up
both and I mean I I didn't see an issue
with it if it on the main roof on the
main no not on the original House no I
know but main roof of the addition yes
not not the little eyebrow the shed no
the eyebrows we talked about keeping
yeah in metal because that's a nice
accent piece but that the overall roof
could also be approved with an either or
for an a highend you know architecture
dimensional you're gonna have to review
the submittal because we don't have a
asphalt shingle roof here correct but
and and on any asphal even replacement
we require a high-end architecture
dimensional shap
we have them with us oh that's right you
said you were going to bring it
yeah one of our one of the contractors
were considering just dropped it off as
an option because we were trying to
figure out the changing of the roof
actually added like a
$20,000 point to our um construction
which was Hefty and so we were trying to
figure out Ro change all the changes
that we made to the roof um and so we
are trying to figure out are there other
ways that we can change it but still
keep it looking you know high quality
and one of the things he had recommended
was a shingle roof that actually matches
the like goes with the Slate so it
almost feels a little bit more cohesive
from the original house to the
addition so I don't
know that's an option or not well are do
those are they separated like that to
get a shadow line is that the
idea because uh GF makes a slate line
which uh our slate line is it called
slate line yeah he said that he was
dropping a slate line so the separation
is more for a shadow line so when they
are overlapping you're going to see
black in between yeah yeah I I actually
think that would be a honestly um more
in keeping with the house than the metal
yeah and part of it is because a metal
roof on something that's tall and with
these proportions is going to
feel like it like it belongs in Suburban
Charleston or something I don't know
it's just that that when you do metal
like that it it just doesn't feel as
beex I mean we we see metal on ancillary
structures but this is not ancillary
right you're basically doubling the size
of your house and it's it's pretty
dominant even though it's back behind
the Main Street I think your neighbors
would appreciate not having a yeah um
and it's quieter it's definitely quieter
for people who are sleeping underneath
yeah I think they were layered on top of
each other when each yeah yeah I think
they looks like it came apart they would
definitely soften the look of the house
I mean you're using pretty smooth
straight run you know siding and trim
and so that would add a little bit of
softness to it thank you strange saying
that about asphalt shingle but I think
it I think it works I agreed so I didn't
want to give her hope but in the
existing house as sleep yeah yes
we can't extend that no not asking to
dear Lord it looks fairly colorful uh
the years of working so we've only
replaced about 50 this year alone so
than thank you for investing in your
existing room yeah any other comments
from the
board your curs is those were all new
shingles or all new
slate B supposedly better better than
the original they are different color oh
weather so this is a BAP application I
already went to be that come back to us
for final approval design or comment or
however the board do we have a motion
from the board would you like me to read
the facts and
findings
yes I make a motion for
approval and then you read read the you
want to read that first yes is that the
way it works we have a motion on the
facts and find's a little different
okay um the facts and findings and
conclusions of law for application
number Bap 2435 for the property located
at 470 South Park View the architecture
review board finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued for an
addition to the original structure as
remanded back to the ARB by BAP with the
following conditions design details be
reviewed and approved by the city's
design consultant the color choices be
more natural tones and blend with the
original structure and the slate line as
that slate line asphalt shingles be used
on the main roof instead of
metal I kind of captured all the other
design details in with the first one
unless you want me to spell out anything
else in particular I have all the notes
I mean as long as the applicant is
comfortable with you know the
suggestions you understand and agree to
those findings fact yes yes yeah this I
think this includes the cover over the
new entryway the material for the deck
or the terce now you can put those
parenthetically like with yeah
cover okay those are added to the first
one as parenthetically things that will
be reviewed by
me we have a
second second
Calhoun call
roll Mr hire yes Mr coun yes Miss Jones
yes Mr Hall AB
same chairman Scott
yes motion passes thank you thank you
you appreciate
it that takes us to new business uh ARB
application ARB 2453 address is 755
Vernon applicant is Brenda Parker owner
is Nathan and Rachel
Lang the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval for
the certificate of appropriateness for
two-story Edition over full basement at
the rear and a new detached garage get a
staff report please yes um this
application is before the board for the
first time um it is the request well
you've already read the request the um I
do want to wait this is a different one
um
the I talked to Brenda for a bit about
this and I think overall it looks um
like a a nice addition I'm a little
concerned about the the large the big
change to the front elevation from from
the gamble roof if you drive down the
block it's very um it fits in very
nicely with the front elevation as it is
but we've discussed that and the board
may feel differently um I don't know if
anybody recognizes this house that's
been through the board before um with
actually a third floor I believe that
was added to it and so for me whichever
elevation you feel comfortable with I'm
just happy that there's not a third
floor I think this is a much more
appropriate scale I'm sorry but I I
think it looks way better than having
the third floor so if any of you noticed
on the plans there's like a little
staircase indicated that goes to the
attic I think that's just a Remnant from
the first design but we can talk about
that um so I'm going to go ahead and can
you put the elevations back for
the I think that's all that I yeah the
front elevation that's that's the
existing front elevation and the new
front elevation which I don't really
think was specified as part of the
application but it is part of the
application in the in the
verbiage um so I think I should go ahead
and let Brenda present this
project okay can we have the applicant
on
the sworn in
please do you swear affirm the testimony
that you give this evening will be the
truth I
do I
do you st your names Brenda Parker I'm
the architect Nathan Lang owner Rachel
Lang also owner thanks
okay so this project has a bit of a
history uh I think some of you uh
probably were here when they came
through with Pete Foster and adding the
third floor which you know increased the
height um the third floor concept came
back um with a really high cost and it
didn't kind of meet the needs of kind of
the first floor they're kind of
rethinking that they need more first
floor space said that solved kind of the
primary Suite dilemma but not the first
floor so they kind of came back to
revisit the whole project um but they
did really like kind of the way the
exterior appeared in the Pete Foster
version taking it you know to really
high Craftsmen you know back to a Gable
so the interesting thing on this house
is the gamber is just pasted on the
front it doesn't and it does have the
kind of the eaves down the side but on
the back it's a Gable so it's
interesting that they didn't kind of
carry it through or at some point that
rear gam roll got removed but the
project does include reciting the entire
house so this is the time to be able
to um you know transition the aesthetic
a little bit to something that they
would be more happy
with you guys have anything to
add oh there is a third floor so it's
really just an attic access so we're not
changing any of the the attic structure
but there is a decent amount of space up
there for storage and they just wanted a
weigh up there uh because their basement
is is well utilized in terms of the
functionality you know it's got a
bedroom and a workshop and so there
isn't a lot of storage down in the
basement okay
anyone in the public would like to speak
uh that has standing would like to speak
on this
application seeing none uh open it up
for the board Mr
hire thanks
Brenda um I honestly don't have an issue
with going to the Gable um this is a lot
of these houses and their floor plans
and are interchangeable it's the details
some of them are Gamal some of them
aren't
it's a two-story structure that's common
there are some old farmhouses in South
Bexley that are you know this kind of
proportion um where you have a Gable at
end above a second floor so it's not
uncommon to see some of these in South
Beckley um I do think that this moving
to this you know sort of gable Craftsman
in my mind
deserves uh the board's attention into
more detail so the concept I think is
fine but I want to see those Craftsman
details CU right now they're it looks
like you've really just begun to think
about how they're going to actually work
for instance you know the overhangs and
the eaves and the little corales and the
uh Bor and batten I mean we're not
seeing how that really works and I think
if I was going to be okay with this I
would want to know that what we're
building is Bexley and not something
from a new subdivision where it's all
plastic I know that you do that but I I
really want to see it um when you reside
are you talking about covering the
existing window trims as well because
they're beautiful no no just taking the
vinyl off doing and doing new the only
other comment I have because well
actually a couple one is I really think
the addition on the back would be it
would be better if it had a lower Eve
than what's on the main house now your
windows may be at a slightly different
elevation because of that but I don't
think that is uncommon um I just think
that they're too commensurate they're
they're too equal yeah yeah and that
detail is always hard to get right where
you have one roof coming up against just
a little board that takes you up to
another roof um there's that and then at
the front I don't agree with the
um the little Gable that's put over the
two columns okay um I really think that
that detail is almost impossible to get
to look like it's not just attached
because all those Bor and batten and
coral little Coral details are going to
um they're going to hold their own with
just one Gable and that's more typical
and it would be you know where you have
this center it's not a center column
it's you know at the stair but that is
totally common with this kind of uh
language of
architecture so I would I would take
that off or try to highlight the above
the two tapered peers in a different way
something else that might highlight you
know that entry other than trying to do
the the offset little Gable with the big
Gable um but the concept I think is fine
um I had a client once who
I drew their addition as a
Gamel uh and because their original
house was a Gamel this is an Upper
Arlington not Bexley so nobody out
there's listening who was about this
project but um they they never built the
Gamel part they didn't understand what
it was for they didn't know why it was
there um so it's just an anecdote but
the gamboll yeah you it does feel in a
lot of the houses in South Bexley like
it's simply stylistic and just a
attached even on the side elevations
where it's like why do we have an extra
roof on our house right that we have to
flash and put gutters on and all that so
I get the sort of I mean the the sort of
Craftsman Gable is definitely cleaner
and it's a little more economic in many
ways um not to say that gamrs aren't
beautiful um on Long Island but this
this is nice and those are those are
really my only comments I just think
that we would I want to see this again
for these details but the concept is
fine and I just think that that addition
on the back should have a lower okay a
lower
roof thank you Mr
Paul yeah my uh when I first looked at
this my really I didn't have a problem
with the elimination of the Gamel either
um and then my only really other comment
Bill spoke to and that was at the front
porch in this um other little Gable
that's s in over the front entrance
seemed a little
forced um and ultimately probably tricky
from a detail perspective so I think if
you know and then obviously getting into
some of the other details that bill
brought up um I think you're you're on
the right path here to make this work so
other than that that's all I
have Mr
Callum um I would agree with what was
said previously um I would also like to
see some color exploration I think that
could be important
um and one more thing I want to make
sure that I'm seeing this correctly and
these two elevations are perfect so the
front elevation the face of the new roof
that you're the new Gable that you're
putting on there the front face of that
is vertical
correct the piece that has the board and
Baton on it yeah I don't think I updated
this in the side elevator I just wanted
to make sure I was like it confused me a
little bit and I wanted to make sure I
was seeing so you do want to it it is
vertical at the front yeah I think they
you are hoping to get to for the front
ports to be the Gable and not the hip
like it is I see what you're saying yeah
not yeah
so forgot to kind of update that okay
perfect and I'll just throw this in
there for the hell of it I think if you
were to put two lights on the front face
of those the peers that flank the
entrance just something very small and
maybe craftsmanlike I think that could
be a really active way of calling out
the entrance from the street I think
I've ever seen lights on porch
columns I have to keep my I don't have
an example to show you
but I could find one in email if you
want to see it um I've seen it a few
times and it's it's they're very minimal
and they're very
attractive yeah this is
Jones many more comments to I was the
little sad about losing the Gamel but
you know it's not a sword I would die on
I think the new iteration is still very
appropriate and in keeping with the
character of Bexley
so my comments have already been okay I
also agree uh that I think it's the
beauty in the Craftsman is in the
details so uh I at first I was surprised
to see the change um just looking at the
drawings and then uh it grew on me a lot
and I actually I like it a lot so I
think you're well on your way I think
it's just looking at and getting those
details yeah the next level the next
level but um and again I don't think we
need to see every detail we need to see
the main details of how this comes
together so that you know we feel
confident and and as you work through
that that we're all on the same track
okay we have not talked about the garage
yet oh we were hoping to skape that will
before we what before we move on just
one comment that um in our 2022 approved
drawing of the East Elevation um it did
almost look exactly like this with the
Gamal gone of course that third Dormer I
could never get over how I don't like
how it looks from the street and Brenda
offered us an alternative I've always
hated those gambl feels like I live in a
barn so I was really really welcoming an
opportunity to have a different
aesthetic but also just to say that we
have to can fix our non-conforming
driveway so this plan also will allow us
to tear up the non-conforming driveway
and to add a garage in the back with
we're parking right so let's talk about
that
g uh let's turn it over to you do you
have any comments on the the garage M
Jones I did not have any specific
comments on the garage to be honest with
you that jumped out of me I was more
focused on the
main on the main
house okay do we have the
garage it's the last
page same applicational last drawing
yeah last page of the drawings
you want to jump in on any comments for
the
garage I don't really have any comments
in the garage I think it's fine I think
it's a good um balance to the house uh
and I think in relocating it to off the
alley I think will'll be fine so I like
it yeah I think I the I just keep
looking at the gables and wondering if
the Craftman elevation should you know
be implemented on those um so just maybe
something to think out there but other
than that I think I'm in I'm I think the
massing of it and simplicity of it is uh
is in it's in a pretty good
place thank you Mr H sorry
Mr Mr
what will you w me over with making it a
conforming apron on the Alley um I I
think it's great it looks like a South
Beckley garage I just again I think it's
the details like that Eve condition um
you can work with a design consultant to
make it work with the addition on the
house because you're going to read them
both um if you live in South Bexley like
me and like you the alleys are it's a
lot of fence and it's a lot of face of
garage right and sometimes uh the most
beautiful things on an alley are the
fences and not the garages the garages
are you know kind of old and decrepit
for for the most part and so this is an
opportunity to kind of clean up just
some of the details and make so when
people look through they see the garage
details that are slightly related to the
to the main house and see how beautiful
this is the Alleyways and South Bexley
for those who don't know or don't go
down there much they're they're walked
on as much as the sidewalks are I mean
people walk their dogs and take their
strollers down the alleys as much as
they do on the sidewalks so what I love
and appreciate and what I think gives
South Bexley a lot of its character is
the is the character from The Alley so I
really appreciate you know whenever
there's an opportunity to help to uh
maintain
that uh I also agree I think the you
know bringing in those subtle Craftsman
details on a simpler form Gres typically
are simplified a little bit but there's
still hints of that of how you trim out
the
windows the selection of the door it
looks like the style is going to be
appropriate
credit you know nice wood door nice nice
nice door can dress up an entire
building especially at this scale so and
of course garage doors the light fixture
the three uh is appropriate uh you know
at the garage but you know that style of
whatever that is I don't necessarily
think it's GNA be that right right
that's that makes or Break It I think
that that really makes the difference so
I'm interested to see uh it continuing
but I think everything else looks
great so
Brenda you've been before us so many
times you know and we we really
appreciate all the work that you put
into these projects and we've asked for
you know a return to the board with
these details from my point of view I
think this project because of the change
from one look to another warrants a
return okay even though um you know the
concept I think how do we how do we do
that well I I mean we can talk about it
but I I kind of feel like it's the first
project you're not doing that much
changes you're just developing the
details so I don't think coming back and
tabling it to come back to show the
board is going to slow you down no I
don't think I just think knowing that we
can move forward with the look allows us
to move forward and and we just you know
can fine-tune yeah I mean you know with
the kind of discussion that we've had
you can this is the kind of project
which typic is pretty typical you either
condition it on me working with them or
you table it to come back but especially
in the debt of winter and you need to
produce construction documents I I don't
think this is holding anything up by
coming back to the board next month no I
don't think so either just to make you
feel better okay
we okay and I have a feeling I mean
you're pretty far along it could easily
be something that you submit the
revisions and we review it and it ends
up being a consent agenda So you you're
not here in the evening yeah yeah okay
yeah for if you don't know we as the
applicants we often have this happen and
then the next month the details look
great to the board so we don't even we
don't even hear it we just vote on it
like we did at the beginning as a
consent agenda item I have a strong
feeling this could be one of those
projects so I I wouldn't
be upset or feel negative about a tbling
at all I think you're on a really good
track so I think overall the board seems
to be in support based on what I heard
uh of your move to changing to a
craftsman style um we will need to
basically do we we vote on the tabling
because it's our choice
correct do I have a motion from the
board or any final comments before that
motion to table to next meeting uh I'll
make the motion for this project to be
tabled to a
date February 13th February February
13th um based on the review tonight and
the details that we'll be looking for
sounds good and we don't need findings a
fact because we're not voting on the no
but I need a second a second second Hall
second
Hall
call Miss
Jones Mr coun yes Mr Hall yes Mr hire
yes chairman Scott yes thank you okay
job our next applicant is ARB
2456 address is 2415 South
Havenwood applicant is Austin
yok owner is Kate
chesnik the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval for a
certificate of appropriateness for a new
addition and renovation of existing
interior space and a new two-car garage
we have a staff report please yes um
before I just start on my uh design
comments um which I'll generally leave
to the board well first of all are the
applicants here okay you guys can come
on up I just want to make sure that
they're here um I I wanted to just
clarify I spoke with the um the
applicant earlier today um there is
something we just caught this I think
just today that this afternoon well it's
really no one's fault it was you know
filed as an ARB application but in the
review mat realized today that it was
drawn the garage the garage is only
drawn at 2 feet off the property line so
um the choice was either to kind of
separate the applications and take the
garage to Bap but um I'm very grateful
that the applicant has decided just to
move the garage one foot and make it
compliant because I think that's a much
better decision so thank Youk so I just
wanted to clarify that but we will make
sure we put that into the the facts and
findings um so architecturally if you
don't mind going to can we get your
names and where you in please names and
addresses please nick caran uh 8819
Beach Street Columbus Ohio okay Kate
chesnik 2415 South Havenwood Drive and
do you swear affirm the testimony you
give this evening will be the truth yes
thank you Kate thank you thank you so um
just to go on with just a few
architectural comments Matt do mind
putting the elevations up sorry thank
you good um
um so we talked a little bit earlier
today and Nick I don't think I talked to
you did I did I talk to you atin I
talked to Austin who um works with Nick
um and the things that I just pointed
out I'm sure the board will have some
other things to talk about but I'm I'm a
little concerned about the no window on
the first floor um mudroom what is that
kitchen extra kitchen area I think
that's um not only an a an athetic
mistake from the outside but I think
you'll appreciate having light in the
inside doesn't mean it have to be a huge
window but some kind of window I'm also
a little concerned about the transom
placements not placements but the
transoms they're kind of out of
character and I think you can still do
transoms but may I would like to see
them match the window pane patterns or
some in some way make it um more adhere
more to the style of the windows that
exist um I think I'll just leave the
rest critique to the board um but
generally I think it it's fine it just
some
tweaks thank you you have anything you
want
to um just a remark the two spaces on
that lower level in the rear it's a an
extension of the kitchen pantry and a
mudro area I think it does make sense to
put a small window in in the mudroom
area we have about 6 feet 8 inches if I
recall correctly um so it would be my
recommendation to do like a 2 by two
picture frame in the center of that
space which is going to be Center on
Mass towards the port like more Center
on the mass but on the right hand side
of your our blank space so to speak um
and that will so give you the owner was
concerned about lack of storage she just
wants to maximize the storage that's
going to be on that wall but we could
flank it with two two foot uppers and
you can still get your bench and cutting
so I think that that would work and it
would give you some natural light which
I would be beneficial it'd be really
dark space
yeah okay anyone in the public would
like to speak to
this I think in general I don't
have a lot of comments necessarily on
the addition the the on
the the window placement and the scale
of the windows um especially on on I
guess the East
Elevation um are concerning to me a
little bit that they don't align with
the existing Windows there seems to be
you know a distinctive rhythm going on
with uh with the existing house and the
size of the window and I almost think
that this would be a little stronger if
it was just carried right on through um
the existing house has brick on the base
of it is that right is the intent to
carry that on through or keep it on the
existing house but what about the
addition oh um to do because it looks
like block just exposed block on
this I think from a cause standpoint
that was the original
intent okay I I think something that's a
little more consistent with the existing
house would would make a little more
sense there um and then you you've been
here tonight the the way the EES are
detailed the way the trim around the
windows are detailed and everything um
you I would look into the uh design
guidelines for some direction on that I
I think that would help clean some of
this up quite a bit
um I think the way this uh you the way
it's it's framed into the house um and I
if I I'm reading this right it looks
like the addition is is setting in a
little bit from the existing side you
know the size of the house so I think
that that'll help um you know create
that reveal that we like to typically
look for um
but that's that's pretty much it I you
yeah I I think that's
it that's all I
have this is a beautiful house I love
this house all the details I love your
little um planter on your garage and
it's such a beautiful um house partly
because of the details the sighting uh
the colors the eve details and
unfortunately you know CAD doesn't
really capture that right so we're not
looking at the same thing and this is so
it's hard to read how some of these new
details are going to work with the
existing so if we go to the elevations
on sheet
10 um which one do you
want yeah that's fine can you zoom
in there there are a couple things are
these are these windows just are these
windows just replacing what's
there are they are they new they're the
same those are existing okay that's fine
they just look bigger than what they
seem to be on the house on the real
house are they drawn bigger I'm happy to
double check but I don't okay um and
then this condition here is concerning
in terms of how the addition is going to
actually look like it ties in with the
original House ideally this eve would be
below that condition right there so if
there's a way to lower that and it
doesn't seem to me like there's anything
conflicting with that now does it mean
that you get potentially a little tray
you know in the ceilings in the rooms in
there as pretty common in South Bexley
to see those happen you also have the
option of with this window you could
create a dormer once this comes down
this window could actually become more
uh in the same language as the rest of
the house by creating a a wall Dormer in
that condition giving it its own little
shed roof um I just think that there's a
lot of opportunity here to pick up on
the beauty of this house that there's
some little things that we're missing
and that would be one is lowering this
addition and then doing something else
with this window besides just having
that horizontal condition you can do
that with a with a wall Dormer where you
have a series of Windows and then the
roof would actually accent those as you
draw it do you know do you understand
absolutely yeah um and I think then it
would actually help to make these
windows feel um more natural may I um so
the transum window it that's um in the
primary Suite where the the master bed
is be on that wall so there was a
privacy concern yep um I I think after
hearing your guys's concerns it might
make more sense to maybe do two smaller
Windows to side if they're going to be I
mean I would probably want to match the
existing language that's going on in the
house and we would get some curtains and
some shears rather than have have a have
the Privacy be the wall this way you
have the option to give a little bit
more natural light and now we can flank
the bed I think it'll build look look a
little bit more your neighbors will just
you just have to close
lines so you could you could go a little
more architectural digest here by give
you know actually making this some kind
of shaped space inside the room with the
high windows and it would let light in
is this a this is south facing oh that's
this is this is West oh right because
you're on Havenwood right so um but in
any case you know if you actually
created a this comes down to here okay
and so your your your master suite has a
shaped ceiling
and then you would have the windows
actually come up and you could then
create you know this special accent over
the over the bed instead of having to do
the split windows which is we see a lot
of that and it tends to be like oh well
that's where the master bed is like you
in this case you're actually creating
this light coming from above and it
might be a really nice um idea I think
it's amazing idea and then I think that
would help these I'm not as concerned
about this honestly um it's set it's
stepped back from the brick right um if
we can go to back to the
elevations um again if this roof comes
down underneath the main uh
overhang then I I have I have no issue
with this honestly because the addition
now has a different proportion and
you're not going to be calling attention
to that blank spot as much as you're
actually calling attention back to the
main house would you prefer seeing a
steeper pitch of the roof or literally
just lowering our our walls the pitch
should match the existing house
yeah um can we go to the this so this is
the elevation where you're talking about
having a adding a window yeah
okay I have no other
comments my comments have been covered I
think the biggest thing that I was going
to comment on again was your e line of
the addition was making sure it falls
below the existing Earth but I love the
suggestions that Mr hire gave for kind
of creating that you know really special
normer element it's a great
idea oh I have one other window
sorry thank you Miss Jones this
one so can that be something else could
it be a round window or something that I
like I like that or either a square 2 by
two picture frame or a round like 30
inch if you do round you could center it
over the door or you know just kind of
line things up just give like a little
bit of localized symmetry just a
suggestion but I don't think that window
is going to work we'll check the
interior you could work with our design
consultant Miss
boore we
can um I don't have anything to add
other than um can we talk about colors
or finishes what are what's the thought
of the addition will it match the the
existing I that's my plan
okay uh and then my last question is so
I've gone past this house many times and
that garage um I'd like to see a little
bit of something more detailed on the
garage door because it does face that
street and it literally is right there
um
that door feels very plain in relation
to the house even if it were just a trim
panel right that
pattern that's
all yeah I agree I think the the garage
there's some quirkiness to the offset of
the garage
door so you know there could be an
address sign there a little light
something that makes that right side
little art panel you know beex alleys
loves having a little bit of uniqueness
so I think making it purposeful would
would go a long way to to kind of
balance that for Thought can I ask um
why is the garage being
replaced um because the current garage
really is only fits like one car and we
both Drive electric cars and we need to
charge them so we would like to park
both of our cars in the garage thanks so
now this is giving the opportunity the
offside of the door was also to create
more storage for the understood I think
on a facade that becomes just a little
too plain so I think just a light and
being very purposeful and they have a
light and maybe an address plaque or
whatever just just really subtle could
really go a long way um you know even
the garage door I think it's
representational I don't know if you're
going to do a literally a flat modern
panel garage door if it's going to be
something else that you go to Lowe's and
get if it's a panelized so understanding
what that would be would be I think
beneficial not problem
um I agree with a lot what would said I
really I strongly agree with the eve
height of the addition it's it's the
theory in beex is that the additions
need to be the main house is dominant
over the Edition and when the additions
are taller either the main origin line
is taller or the Eve is taller it starts
to dominate the the existing house so we
want to tuck that down I love the idea
of making this kind of unique ceiling
and and window above the bed I think
that's going to be much more unique
something that's much more enjoyable uh
you know split window works we know that
we've seen that uh obviously there's
some additional costs and work in the
ceiling but you're going to have to
lower that roof down anyway and you're
going to want to maximize the total
ceiling height in there so you're going
to my bedroom and beex has sled sled
walls on the ceiling it's just the way
it works um so I think that that would
be
appropriate
uh I agree with all the other window
comments I'm interested to see what your
your rear door your double door is
you're showing this just a solid panel
in the
elevations I wonder you know what that
is I'm assuming it's maybe full light or
quarter light or half light I want to
make sure that design consultant is
aware of that depending on how we we
move forward tonight uh sounds like it
might need to come back depending on the
length of these but we'll we'll
determine that uh it also looks like
those railings are
modern uh you know horizontal rail they
could come a square tube can you explain
what your thinking is on the railing on
the the back of the house so we were
just going
from very moderate in the
back so there's a little bit of a you
know front to back kind of CH the
position with the because you're the
front of the house I've walked by this
hundreds of times it's just it's quirky
the roof doesn't go all the way over but
you know it's just really kind of a cute
really nice nice house so you know
something that's too modern in the back
I know it's not seen as well as much I
get that um I'm we would probably not uh
be too particular about that but I think
you don't want it to be too diverse from
what's happening in the rest of the
house um so I would just be considered
of that style and how that looks it's
okay that it is just what are the
details of that and how does that fit in
with the rest of the
house and then uh it's it's gray out as
existing but you are removing the second
floor siding from
the um existing house or is that staying
CU you have right now kind of a
horizontal lap sighting on the first
floor and then this really nice uh
historic looking sighting on the second
floor that's coming off of the second
floor but you're leaving it you're
leaving it in the
Gable yeah we're only going to be
removing where the addition is massing
is going to be and then on the side of
the house if youd scroll over to the
right it looks like it's the second
floor is getting removed and this is
going to the top is going to be left but
the the second floor is going to be n
new to match the to make the house look
more
cohesive can you go to the photograph of
the side there what I have to say I love
the photographs that you submitted one
they're large they're clear uh we could
see a lot of the detail so thank
you I think there's even a better one on
the side might be from the back that's
that's a nice shot so your your your
your addition the addition that was put
on they looks like they went ahead and
just ran that siding
along the first floor but your second
floor looks like it's original siding
yeah the thought would be to put a band
board between the Gable and the siding
of the house and then just and remove
everything on the and then keep it
consistent well on one hand I appreciate
you're saving some of it because I think
it's it's very unique and you can't get
this anymore right you can't you custom
make it but you can't buy this off the
show yeah you can you buy that yeah well
it's it's a Hardy Board but they don't
they make it where it's stepped like
that
yeah yeah they also have composite
composite shingles that you can yeah I
know they ask for ASB bestus
anymore that so I want to make sure
we're all aware that that's you know
there is some of this this sighting
being removed and that they're going to
be going now that's a vinyl sighting on
the first floor is it not or is that an
old wood old
wood and we do have some like B
situation in the wood so just trying to
update that along with the project so
and remind me what are you putting on
then the house the new house and the
addition we are proposing
vinyl we're also happy to work with
Karen on
any uh thoughts on that but the the idea
for this project is it's very expensive
and we're doing everything we can to
make it affordable to the other I
know there just there's just so much
character there this I mean the house is
so beautiful that's just going to take
away from the beauty of this house my my
only argument would be that we're not
touching the the curb appeal in the
front of the house it's strictly going
to be agreed but so vinyl sighting
there's always change challenges because
you won't end as it where this sighting
is hitting the windows vyl sighting will
now have additional pieces and gaps and
it becomes the character starts to
quickly fall away so I want you to be
understand that it's it's not something
that we would support in that we would
push for vinyl sighting it's something
that we would fight as much as we can
because it does detract from the project
cement board sighting uh you know you
can get the laps cement board sighting
like a Hardy there's it's definitely an
upgrade from Vinyl we understand that
but I would definitely look into that
will'll destroy it party board would you
know I don't want to make it a condition
but I definitely would recommend we look
at options for the sighting I agree with
you well I would I would like to see
this again uh from my point of view just
because we're we're lowering that that
uh addition roof and maybe between now
and uh February there can be some more
discussion with Miss bour and we can
have that all resolved at the next ARB I
think there's enough here what we're
talking about to Warrant you know
working with Miss bour and then coming
back in in
February perfect thank you and like I
said on the other two projects it's
great it also gives you an opportunity
to work out some of the details that
would be nice for us to see uh
particularly following the design
guidelines look at Eve conditions uh
your CAD is not really showing those
details yet so this will be an
opportunity to present some of those
that's just a win-win for us when we see
details you know in these presentations
that are clearly reflective of the
quality of and character of the house
understood okay so this is a uh the
board is going to table move to table I
I think I'll ask for a motion uh we
don't need to do findings of facts and
we'll move to the 13th of February's
meeting we have a motion to
table motion to table call
second call
Mr
hire yes Mr Cal Mr Calhoun yes Mr Hall
yes Miss Jones chairman Scott yes thank
you next one have a good
night okay uh next application is Bap
2450 but we also are going to I'm going
to turn this over to you here in a
second but also going to blend that with
the uh final application of Bap
2449 uh the first project is at 420
North Cassidy applicant is Bill Downing
owner is 420 North Cassidy Avenue LLC uh
the Bap 2449 uh address is 2300
Livingston applicant is Bill Downing
owner is Bexley apartment's LLC and then
I will turn it over to you as we're
going to combine these a little bit and
and hear from the applicant uh and then
hear from the public
sorry we can go ahead and have the
applicants come forward um I just want
to start off first by just making a few
comments um the way this is going to um
work because that this one applicant is
going to be presenting both projects and
there are some some parts of it that are
um consistent from one project to the
other we're going to give an opportunity
to have some general presentation that
apply to both and then we're going to
look at 420 Cassidy first and then
2300 um Livingston second and this
hearing is to talk about design details
design massing style all that kind of
stuff only um this project will then go
to the board of zoning and planning um
for are there even any variances or is
conditional for variances in use permits
but that's not what we're here to
discuss at this Bo board um what we're
looking for at from this board is um
well there's in our in my staff report
as I have everyone which I'll just read
to all of you just to make sure that
we're all clear that there's different
possibilities that this board can come
out with from this hearing um one is to
recommend in a positive this application
to the board of zoning and planning as
is or with conditions that are are final
um two is it can be recommended with
conditions well that is the second one
as with conditions um we could
also recommend it in a negative um or
without a recommendation at all just to
look at it but in any of those cases the
board has the opportunity to condition
this on aand back to this board for
final design review um which is what I
would support as staff so we're going to
talk about design review um hoping to
move it on to Bap to have the the zoning
and conditional use permit discussions
and then um anything that comes out of
this meeting um would be seen back here
in February for final design
review and uh when we get to public
comment there's not a a full house
tonight but we will have a timed three
minute uh timer for all public comments
the application will have uh plus or
minus 10 minutes for a general
presentation then move into 420 and just
for um anyone in the audience that wants
to testify we're going to have a 3
minute time limit and I will be the one
in charge of that time clock so I'll try
to be as polite as I possibly can and
give you a warning all right three
minute per speaker not three minute
total yeah three per speaker yeah did I
say no no you didn't I'm just three
minute per speaker all right anything
else from staff um no we'll turn it over
to you for your presentation and swear
in oh yes we swear you in
oh uh yeah could you email
Jimmy thanks for what their slide deck
for the presentation any any of the
applicants that are going to speak can
we please have you sworn in in your name
and address on
record is it is it you three we speaking
could you state your name and addresses
please uh George Tabit 828 Vernon Road
um in my professional address is 736 o
Oak Street
we on tanom uh 21111 chrin
Boulevard and Alex kesi 147 East Lincoln
Avenue Columbus
Ohio thank
you and you swear affirm the testimony
you give this evening will be the truth
we do thank you soon as I get that slide
deck I'll bring it up
I can go ahead and start talking if you
guys that' be great yeah yeah all right
well uh so what we wanted to do good
evening um what we wanted to be able to
do is um the project has a long history
in Beckley um I think it it goes all the
way back to
2018 um I'm aware that I'm relatively
new to the project I joined the
Community Builders over just a little
over a year ago um although I'm a beex
resident um so I thought it would be
helpful before we jump in I know there
are I've been told a number of the board
members this evening are new to the
project so I just wanted to do a brief
introduction of our
team talk a little bit about the history
in the community um and and some of the
unique aspects of the project and then
we've recently completed um o over the
course of the last several months um
around of uh about 10 Community meetings
where we did a lot of listening and a
lot of what Ron our architect will be uh
presenting later on is really grounded
in that that Community feedback process
we did so I thought it was really
important that um I'd be able to speak
to that before we get before we dive in
so um just to start off um uh George
Tabit I'm a Bexley resident I actually
live around the corner from one of that
just down the street same block from the
uh applicant earlier this evening um uh
the Community Builders is uh what I want
you to know about is um we've been
around for 60 years um we're one of the
largest nonprofit affordable housing
developers in the country we are
regularly recognized on a on a national
level for the work we do uh across the
country we won awards from HUD this year
we won the affordable housing Finance
annual conference the largest affordable
housing conference there is in the
country um uh best-in-class project and
best overall project for affordable
housing
um we have uh over the course of our our
organization's career developed more
than 33,000 Apartments um on the east
coast and then in the midwest um today
more than 25,000 fam uh uh individuals
go to sleep with us every night um so
all that to say we've we've been doing
this a long time um and and and we bring
a lot of experience um with me this
evening our architect uh RDL um RDL may
not have a large profile in uh maybe
Columbus necessarily but within the
industry they are uh probably one of the
most prolific uh design uh organizations
design Architects for affordable housing
in the midwest so they're really Best in
Class we also have our uh uh landscape
um architect um Alex I can't
cusini campesi sorry from uh pod I've
never worked with pod before but these
guys are fantastic you guys probably
know them um uh do we have the slide
deck up I'm going to stop remembering
what to say from the slides and anytime
now um let's see uh I think I wanted to
kind of talk a little bit about the the
the timeline of the project it began in
2018 um Beckley uh uh in it we've got to
remember it's 2025 now SE in affordable
housing just within the last five years
it's really become very current but 2018
may not be that long ago but in in the
affordable housing world it's an e on
ago in the sense that um Bexley was at
The Cutting Edge Bexley we should really
be proud of this as a community Bexley
was one of the first suburbs to start
really embracing affordable housing and
and and and the need
for um uh affordable housing uh that was
the first year that it put into its
strategic plan affordable housing as a
goal uh that same year they released an
RFP for um uh an affordable housing
developer to help them work through
um uh uh the fern deal Mayfield site and
come up with ideas for redevelopment
there we responded uh that never went
forward but um we did build a
relationship with the city at that point
and uh by 2020 the city had acquired the
Cassidy Avenue property through the
cic um and had encouraged us to work
with them to move forward with an
affordable housing development there and
at the 2300 Livingston site which also
needed a Redevelopment strategy so um
2021 um with this organization or with
the ARB and the Bap got both of those
sites um the approved at with the
conditional permit and 420 C did get the
design approval it was in 2021 right
Karen that we got our design
approvals or
2022 somewhere along there
um and uh so really a great partnership
we were delighted to be invited by the
city to start working uh in this way and
help the city Advance its goals for
affordable housing um notwithstanding
the six success we got to at that point
um there was some community concern
about um safety on the Livingston Avenue
site and so the project did come to a um
a temporary standstill at that point um
and then uh I think it's notable that it
not that the city in 2023 added to its
strategic Plan update again affirmed um
the city wants affordable housing um
that was a goal in the 23 update um as
well as uh the city wanted ident IED in
that 2023 strategic Plan update finding
a permanent home for the senior center
and so that really has informed both of
those actions and everything that
preceded it um has informed what we're
going to present this evening
um I wanted to uh so that's a little bit
of the history of the project um I
wanted to talk a little bit about the uh
uh how we build affordable housing today
um we're still not going to get the
slide show up are
we not working out okay it's fine um
affordable housing is really um runs off
the the low-income housing tax credit um
it's been around for over 35 years um
it's a very successful program it
outperforms conventionally financed um
apartment communities year in and year
out um in terms of financial success and
and performing on its on their
obligations
um uh the affordable a lot of the
success of the affordable housing
Finance um of the the low-income housing
tax credit is owed to the state Housing
Finance agencies the federal government
designates to each state the authority
to allocate tax credits and the the the
the authority to determine uh the the
the design criteria in the financial
underwriting criteria that um affordable
housing developments operate under and
this is really important to understand
uh they work really hard a lot they
they're very jealous of making sure the
program continues to perform so well and
so a key to that is really well-designed
projects that are designed to be
sustainable and sound financial
underwriting um to make sure that
projects are endowed with the
replacement reserves and um feasible
Financial plans to ensure they can be uh
uh uh continue to operate in perpetuity
um and they want to make sure they don't
over subsidize projects they want to uh
build as many affordable housing um
Apartments as we can so there's a uh
they've got very we work within a very
tight um framework and set of guidelines
for how we build and finance projects
not too much uh too too fancy um but not
um but definitely they need to be able
to uh be sustainable over time
um I'll talk a little bit about the
feedback we received from um the
community over the last um several
months we conducted um if I had this I'm
sorry the slide deck didn't work um uh
two or three I'm gonna have to go off of
memory uh meetings with the senior
community uh the Bexley uh Senior Center
members including an advisory committee
and SE and Senior Center staff um we met
with we conducted a CommunityWide
meeting in Bexley um a a a targeted
meeting for uh residents around the
Livingston Avenue site um we conducted
um a meeting with the South Bexley no uh
neighborhood
association um and we conducted a
meeting with
um another when we we took all of that
updated our plans for what you're going
to see this evening and then had a
chance to report back to the community
um I think some really the the process
was fantastic i' I've I've been doing
affordable housing for almost 20 years
I've done a lot of these things it
always makes for a better project um we
got really
clear um high quality feedback from
folks with the message was was easy to
understand so um I'll start uh
on on the living or on the cidy um I
think the good news is uh since the city
took that property over the um the
senior center that has taken off there
has is has just become an institution
the seniors love that property
um uh I think the challenges it has is
it's a very low intensity use if you
were to look at that it's a little bit
of building and a whole lot of asphalt
Park
um but what that does for the current
users is make for a very
accessible uh very um uh easy to get in
and out of property um and the community
has grown very attached they they they
want to continue to have the senior
center there um and so the the design
challenge that presents though is how do
we Elevate the the the intensity of use
um incre you know provide a facility
that's um
uh uh meets the parking needs of more
than just one user um but is still
feasible and attractive and so I if we
had the old building side side by side
with this you'd see what we did was um
sacrifice um a certain amount uh a fair
amount of our first floor
um uh uh common area uses um in order to
nip off the little dog leg that was
formerly at the top of the site um and
what that allowed us to do really was by
by eliminating that dog leg eliminate
that weird parking that was in the first
iteration where there was some stacked
parking it was all off the alley it was
it was really kind of um yeah I'm
getting some nods there it's good I can
tell we're paying attention thank you um
I think what we also really wanted to
emphasize in that is um the the other
big important feedback
the community really the current space
it can only be used for one thing at a
time um and staff and members really
wanted a solution that would allow for
two uses at a time so it doesn't show up
very well here but what we end up with
is um two program spaces that are a
little more um easily
um the programming space before was kind
of awkward it was just a jumble of of in
mish mash of like residual space and
this is a little more
um I think will lend itself to use
better by the um Senior Center members
and the staff um Livingston Avenue um
the uh and I'm almost done we're in the
home stretch guys thanks for sticking
with
me I I was hoping I could just kind of
summarize um the feedback on both um and
so uh in I'm going to be done and let
Ron take over and go 420 and then we'll
do all of that and then
2300 I could I can I can punt the the
feedback we got on 2300 until we go
there
okay D sorry the general project Scopes
or issues and we also have Megan with us
tonight and she might want to clarify or
make some comments about the
generalities of
it and if it's okay I'll go ahead and
just jump into do that since we're going
to go ahead and talk about uh 420 North
Cassidy um so in my capacity as
development director I also happen to
sit on the cic and so I'm familiar with
the project as it's come forward from
both perspectives um I've also been ble
to attend a couple of the one-on-one
meetings that TCB has had with some
members of our key members of the senior
community so specifically related to 420
some things that I think are relevant to
the architecture of the building um is
that currently as it stands the senior
center on this site is about 19900
Square fet um the original drawings that
were submitted as part of their 2020
package had that being a fairly
comparable space for the senior center
um and an understanding that that was
not what the senior desired nor was at
the highest and best use from the city's
perspective it is now since nearly
doubled um and so what you were s seeing
on that floor plate plan um it is a
bifurcated commercial space but the two
the northern and the southern portions
would both be for senior center use with
a dedicated Senior Center entrance on
the northeast um with direct access to
handicap parking um parking was the
other major concern that continued to
come out of those and so I believe that
does pertain to your um interest is ARB
parking has um more than doubled since
the initial application not
incorporating street parking this does
Park and requires no variances um and
does allow for some lightning of course
this is more for tree and public gardens
commission but some lightening of that
asphalt with those tree Wells that
you're seeing indicated there as well um
along Cassidy Avenue I will also add
that the city is pursuing engineering
plans to bring um the continued shared
use path that is being constructed north
of delmare as part of the city of
Columbus project down the Western
portion of Cassidy that is a thought
it's an engineering concept it's not
funded but it's something on the horizon
um so in the meantime we are favorable
of parking in front of the building um
along the street on the western portion
which is what is indicated here um so I
hope that I've summarized what pertains
to this
committee thank you
uh so it looks like we're going to pause
on you and we're going to move over to
the architect do you want to walk us
through um the overall building sighting
uh we aren't a uh the tree and garden
commission and we we obviously are
Landscape Architects as you know but
happy to hear from P to talk about how
the building is placed and um you know
that maybe some of the the softening of
that around the perimeter of the
building but then um I have luckily have
been part of seen the original
application and been part of all of the
different reviews so it's good to see
the progress I think there's a couple
other board members that have also been
involved so there's some history here
but there's also fresh eyes um so happy
to have you walk us through the current
SM um and um any additional changes that
have been made over you know over the
year and um sure I mean it I think that
um from an architectural perspective uh
the way that the the building now faces
both Cassidy and
Columbus um has changed programmatically
um so that now we have a complete
commercial space facing both of those
streets um which I think will enhance
the use and enhance um the sort of
invitation of use of this building to
the community um I think the fact that
it's outward facing both on uh Cassidy
and Columbus without any primary single
family res sort of res residential look
um and that uh we are able to get these
higher larger windows and um I will note
that we have 14 ft spaces um for that
commercial space as well so we have a
sort of elevated larger ground floor um
that's up against Cassidy and Columbus
we feel is is um something will that
will enhance um the program because
that's really what changed between uh
when we were here last and when we're
here now um which is the programmatic
use the programmatic use was in unknown
um and now that it's known and that it's
a community center we feel that um
creating something that's very open and
very inviting um that that will have
both daytime and we hope evening uh
solid use um will create a building
that's inviting and and acceptable in
the community in that regard um within
that as well I would say that to the
South um as a buffer we're adding an
amenity Courtyard and that amenity
Courtyard is trellist um so you can see
that um I think if we land on the
rendering um probably best in terms of
the way that it has a relationship both
uh to Cassidy to the community to the uh
yoga studio to the south of it um but I
think that the biggest thing to sort of
key in on is is what we learned in terms
of the programmatic change um and that
the community's desire to have more
Senior Center is really what drove uh
the adjustments to the building um
architecturally speaking in terms of
finishes uh the building um finish wise
is is is very similar to what we had
before I will say say that we were able
to reduce the overall footprint by about
10% and the overall square footage by
about 10% which I think is actually
helpful in terms of its relationship to
the residential Community around it uh
specifically behind and I think um
bringing it less back on Columbus and
allowing for that uh Second curb cut to
essentially remain and provide more
parking uh adds to that sort of buffer
um to go along with the ability for uh
you know both residents and uh users of
that uh Community Center to be able to
park there so I think parking there
parking the around um and that
relationship is is really the sort of
tweaks and adjustments that that led us
to where we are
today do you want to say anything about
maybe general
landscape on as
well um I think they covered the
majority of what I was going to review
but um something that was really
important last time we went through this
working through tree and public garden
commission which will going back to um
next month so we'll get some of their
feedback but uh preserving the existing
trees out here was really important as
well as establishing exit or additional
tree coverage um so that is something we
are trying to maintain that kind of
mature tree Frontage of the existing
Elms along Cassidy so it's it's a nice
um kind of mature setting for the
building to be nestled into as well as
building that as a priority for the site
as a whole um
I think you covered pretty much
everything
else thank
you else enough for
420 yes yeah I I would just like to make
some staff comments about the design
because I just want to make sure we're
all focused on the design of the
building I think all the discussion
about parking and Landscape is awesome
and it's great to put it into context
but right now I want to refocus the
board back on the building um and just
to remind I'm not going to pull up
pictures because I don't really see any
sense in that but just to remind
everybody how far the design has come
from the initial design in 2018 so what
you're seeing on these renderings um
sorry what was uploaded on the website
was very blurry so that's why we're
juggling around to get some some better
renderings um a lot of that is has been
implemented and continued on so just to
remind the board that a lot of what you
see
is what we've done already to work with
the applicant to get to that point um so
I I I think it would be good to talk
about a couple new things one is that
there is now more building filled in um
I think if you if you remember what the
last one was that was kind of niched out
on the bottom to have some open space um
that's a programmatic need to have more
um square footage um interior and um
also the arbor that's built in the back
to get some outside it's kind of a
landscape but it's also a Hardscape
issue that I'd like to touch on also um
uh so I just wanted to kind of refocus
us on the on the building per
se thank you you're welcome that takes
us to public
comment so anyone in the audience would
like to speak to this case that has
standing welcome to come up and address
the board
more
seconds okay uh seeing none we'll move
to uh the
board I will ask anybody that would like
to
start I'd like to start because I was
here for the previous reviews and might
help with some context for other board
members um so I thank you very much for
the presentation and for the changes
that have been made I can see a lot of
what was brought up in the previous
meetings has been
Incorporated um there are a couple
things that I would ask for
clarification on particularly the South
elevation which in black and white
elevation versus color elevation versus
plan are not the same so uh for instance
in the plan it's not showing a door out
of the stair facing south it's actually
showing the door coming out to the
West um the South elevation in Black and
white elevation
shows uh the corner it shows a door and
a
storefront whereas the plan just shows a
door so there's a number of things and
the second floor there's double you know
double hungs or picture windows whatever
they are um but in plan it shows a
single skinnier windows so can you help
me to understand which is
which um sure if we if we pull
up the plan I think to start with in
terms of looking at that or we can look
at the
rendering so the reason why I'm looking
at this South elevation in particular is
because the color
elevation uh that that fire stair or
that erress stair looks of a different
proportion than what shown in plan it's
almost like the stair was reduced in
plan in terms of its East West Orient uh
Dimension and then there was a slight
brick CH uh bump out uh that was left in
the plan but not to have it be as long
and as big which to me is an improvement
in plan as opposed to Elevation so I
think the the the plan on the left and
the elevation on the right I think if
you look at the plan on the left you
can you can see the the doors and and
the way that they're oriented in terms
of the black and white
um and those
are in terms of the
those I think those two match on on the
left and right uhuh and and th those are
our intent in terms of the being able to
provide the means of egress and
providing that more open uh glazed
doorway as part of the community center
and facing and creating that invitation
out to the trist amenity space yeah and
then on the second floor if you go up to
the go to the plan of this of or one of
the upper floors typical Upper Floor you
see that little
bump think
that's which I don't see here uh
that's I I believe it's it's not
actually a bump that might be an and
this is a single window and these are
it's a double window so they are double
yeah okay
uh I don't see
it no the elevation I was looking at the
color the color oh I see it there yeah
so um we need that in order to provide
the plumbing the double Plumbing wall
and we thought it would actually be to
accentuate the verticality and provide
that it does it's just Rel from from a
difference you know I'm just trying to
get my bearings with differen
break it just didn't quite show through
but um the double window is intended to
sort of match going up and why no
windows in the egress
there
um we we don't see them as as commonly
used or really needing that that glazing
um you know we we can look at it if we
go to the plan for a
second um I think that the way that the
EG stair is oriented and the fact that
we have a solid door on the interior to
it we're not not really providing any
borrowed light into the to the building
and and to The Landing so we we didn't
see the value in providing a um a glazed
element that was really tight to one
side because it would really need to
align with that Landing um so we felt
that it would actually be more
appropriate to to leave it without it um
and and to sort of work with I think if
we did introduce a a glazed element it
would be sort of aligned with that door
and be very sort of tight to theed
skewed skewed to one side I feel like it
may not feel like it's within the Rhythm
that we've developed along particularly
on Cassidy um where we have a very
strong and repetitive rhythm going
around the building um where it may feel
a little bit alienated in it's in the
way that it's showing bringing it across
anywhere else is you know would sort of
interrupt the stair float but yeah I
guess that would be my concern with that
so I bring up the window but but my when
you're driving up Northbound on Cassidy
MH you're going to see this large brick
mass and I know that you've broken it up
and you have that bump and then you have
this stair is there anything else we can
do to help alleviate you know such a big
brick surface in a I mean it's a
commercial District I get that but
you're really primarily residential
around it so maybe it's a different
brick pattern maybe it's you know
something that could do in the brick
that would help to ex you know to
articulate it a little bit more it just
it really striking that it's you know
this big flat brick area there's nowhere
else like that on this building yeah I
think if we if we zoom out a little bit
more I the way we saw it is is really
providing a a sort of foreground and a
background building in terms of that
massing um so really pushing all that
glazing out to the Cassidy Street I can
see what you're saying though in terms
of the the relationship ship um we can
look at providing patterning or another
vertical element or something to
accentuate that yeah um I think just our
opportunity to provide window there is
probably going to compete with the
actual interior of the architecture no
yeah I'm not suggesting that that's a
condition yeah um but certainly you
could work with the brick work to create
some more vertical element or yeah or we
can create a relief or or some sort of
where the corners could actually have a
continuous joint to create almost like a
a peer type of or something like that
that that was um that stood out to me
and also this trying to understand the
doors and windows of that um be beyond
the glazing I think the idea of the the
trellis at the ground floor is really at
at the experiential level to make sure
that there's visual sort of variety
within what's going on there and to
create a buffer between the building and
and the street yeah um as well as the
way that we're handling um the very top
at the roof line um so I think we can
really look at some just in the middle
of that wall or sort of working within
uh the patterning of that wall yeah I
mean you've already C you you've already
started to kind of yeah indicate that by
this bump that you've created and so
you're helping to break up the the
bigger area there's you know you you
have the potential to kind of continue
that but in the same plane like I'm not
asking for a difference in plane because
I know that's more complicated but
certainly with peers that are part of
the brick veneer yeah I see I see what
you're saying and I think creating
something similar to that with the
shadow line or something like that yeah
to sort of reintroduce an element of
verticality and sort of break down that
wall would be helpful yeah okay and um
the other thing really is um the last
time I remember seeing this there was a
lot of discussion
about um the detailing on the first
floor because that's the that's the
those are the details that everybody in
this commercial District are going to be
walking by MH and as a community center
you know I think it's important that
those details be really well done
unfortunately Columbus has a bad
reputation for really badly done Stone
and uh faux stone detailing for a water
table I don't know if it's the quality
of Masons we have in Columbus I know
we're starting to import some from Texas
because they know how to do it um but
there the detailing that I've seen on um
condominium and apartment development
for a ground floor like 5 over one
commercial on the ground floor has been
terrible so we're looking for these
details to be clean the the uh arena
district is an exception to that they
they those details that they do around a
lot of the entries on those commercial
buildings are really well done I don't
know who your contractors are that are
going to be looking at this but I do
have concern that this um cast stone uh
is that what it is cast stone
yeah it's pre yeah pre-cast that you
know the joint work and the
flashing uh and all that is done well
because otherwise there's just an eyes
sore and we see so much of that in
Columbus I don't know about Cleveland
but uh definitely here we see it the
other thing is these in your renderings
you show a projected brick Soldier
course above the windows and I do not
recommend that um I think it looks like
a faux Georgian type of thing and
typically these commercial buildings
would not have a projected Soldier
course if you were going to do something
there I think the last time we talked
about this or I might have mentioned
this is that you create a wrap you know
some kind of brick detail that goes all
the way around the window and not just
to have a straight soldier sitting on a
steel beam or a steel lentil and then
the single soldier course that's
defining the difference between the
commercial ground floor and the upper
floors I don't think it's strong enough
I think you need to do another Soldier
course below it that's flush with the
brick and then you could have a one
above it that's stepped out um I just
don't think there's enough difference
there for a building of the size
otherwise it looks it looks like you
know if I had a belt on that was this
skinny right going around my waist um
then then that's kind of what the
proportion I'm looking at here so I
would add another element or maybe maybe
work with the two row um the two rows
below it and do a little bit more
stepping or something but I think you
could really make a nice detail around
these these ground floor storefronts by
doing something that actually comes down
on the sides it wraps the window even if
it's just a brick that you know uh is
inset by you know an inch or something
like that there's there's got to be
something we can do besides just the the
straight Soldier core sitting on a
lentil otherwise I think the massing is
great I think you've you've really
responded to a lot of the comments that
we made in the previous reviews one of
the comments that we talked about was
that um the original land use strategy
commission that came up with this
concept had actually looked at creating
buildings that could be used for
multiple functions down you know as the
years go go on you have given it a more
uh defined you know occupancy and use
but the fact that
eventually the L use strategy idea was
that this Corridor have more buildings
like this on it um and that they'd be
simple and kind of fabric buildings uh
has really I think it's that you've
responded well to that so really it's
it's about details for me in that South
elevation thank
you I think in the we can look at the
details particularly at the wrap and the
windows and and sort of um adjusting the
banding to have a little bit more
prominence I like to call attention to
the fixtures and the awnings and things
like that as well that I think um simply
add character yeah um and without uh
provide variability and and sort of
project out um to create that invitation
for the building it's the same number of
bricks it's the same Mason you know it's
it's just creating that articulation
yeah we'll look at
that um thank you for the introduction
to the project this is is new to me so
um it was helpful just to hear some of
the history and kind of where you guys
have been so I appreciate that um I mean
I think it's looking really good I think
um a lot of the details that Mr hire
mentioned were things that I was kind of
looking at as I was approaching this you
know not having seen the previous
iteration um I think it's always a
challenge with buildings of this type to
make feel contextually appropriate for a
community like Bexley or
Wy
um but I think this is really starting
to get there so I think my comments
really um would have mirrored some of
what Mr hire said um but I think I think
the massing looks great and I think
again yeah just taking it back to some
of the details I like what you've done
in adding some of the elements on that
first floor so I think the awning really
helped
um you know even just adding in the
details of some of the light fixtures I
think help pain a picture of what it
really could
become thank you yeah I would like to
mention to the board also that in
previous reviews that it was a big uh
concern of ours that the that the vinyl
windows be a different color other than
white and they've done a nice job of
introducing this and I think vinyl
windows are still starting to have a lot
more color options now so it's really
really great thank
you Mr
Hall yeah I'm going to start inside the
building with the senior center space I
don't know what the programming is going
to be that is associated with it but
some things to think about if there's a
demonstration kitchen how we getting
exhaust out of the building um these are
spaces that are probably going to have
my gut is is because the size of them
and occupant load of greater than 50 so
all the doors are going to have to swing
in the direction of ESS um within that
Lobby so that's going to impose on some
um some area there
potentially um and then I'm assuming
that um the restrooms that are required
for the senior center would also be
included in the space so there's some
auil you know inary spaces that are
going to take up some of this square
footage that I think we need to think
about as we go through what the
programming requirements are for those
spaces in general um as they move
forward I think the um the building the
design of the building the outside um
you know has a i the brick I approach I
I do love that I think the you know how
that's
detailed um is uh is pretty critical um
you know the building almost has this
you know it's a traditional building in
terms of its base Middle top um and I
think getting back to the base of the
building and the details of the water
table and everything that has to be
really strong and and significantly
relevant um to that and then when you
get to the top um some things I'm seeing
here that you had a ro loock that's
going around and then it's just Dead
ending into the windows I'm almost
wondering if that um that road loock
should continue across the top of the
Windows um and be continuous and then on
the East Elevation this this corness
this band um is continuing across where
there's uh the gray sighing and I I
think that would be better without going
across there and just letting that all
be a a gray sighting uh just dropping in
its place um and then some other
comments were the uh at the front
entrance I'm a little bit concerned that
the canopy that's extending out of the
front entrance isn't um deep enough it
looks like it's only about three feet
deep to really do you know probably what
it should be doing it you know if it
came out another foot or two I think
that would be a little bit better um and
then you know all of you know Bill's
comments obviously I think are are very
relevant and trying trying to get the
the the colored the the rendered
elevations to match what the floor plan
is is actually talking to there's seems
to be a little bit of your your your
non-colored elevations are are matching
the plan but your colored elevations
aren't matching it exactly so I think
that's just a Revit thing or something
there so um but other than that I think
it's I again just wor it's you know this
basal top I think
um the the top and the the size of the
cornice going across it seems a little
little thin to me um and then with that
roock not continuing AC cross the top of
the windows up there I think that's a
little bit of a detail issue that needs
to be explored um but other than that I
think you're you're definitely on the
right path with Mr Hall I'd like to um
actually comment on that because that
was a big part of our previous reviews I
didn't talk about it but one of the
reasons why we were kind of allowing
that Soldier course the top to remain
was so that we could pull that you know
the eve line down but still keeping the
detail and originally I think they had
some kind of um there was another
material up there for the cornice and it
was it was it was big and it was it just
took away from the Simplicity of the
building okay so a lot of this is in
response to previous design review and
as long as that I would agree that that
Soldier course shouldn't project I think
that would take away from it would it
would accentuate the cut of the window
yeah as opposed to it being just flush
um which it looks like it is in the 3D
rendering it's just flush but the ones
on the ground floor are projected I
don't know what what's going on with the
rendering but in any case that they we
did um we did specifically request those
changes that it went back and forth I I
brought that comment okay we made that
change and and um from our
perspective um actually sort of uh
having the that sort of top sit right on
the top of the window um I think adds a
amount of gravity and weight to the to
that sort of roof line um that actually
in our opinion helps balance the overall
facade and I would agree with that yeah
and it brings the it brings the third
floor level you know just visually down
even more I mean the work they put into
the metal panels and everything it's
almost like a goodlooking
maner
almost anyway so just a little more
background that's
great other than that I'm good thank you
Mr C
um I I will I will applaud you on the
progress that this has made I followed
this uh project not as a board member
but just as an interested uh neighbor I
go past this site almost every day
walking my dog um I would ask that you
put a permanent concrete dog water dish
out by the um my dog Han would really
appreciate that thank you um I don't
have any comments other than what has
already been stated So yeah thank you
thank
you I'm really pleased uh on the
progress
uh I think more so on the building plan
and I think now that you have a program
you you've kind of made the building
work with that program not specifically
but allowed it to influence you and I
think it's been for the better uh I
think you know if you're looking at a
site plan
trying to be respectful of the neighbors
but also densifying the the kind of
urban Corridor that the master plan of
the city has um being able to have
storefront on all a north side as well
as the the west side on Cassidy uh and
also activating the South corner I think
is really powerful I think that's really
what this building wants uh and I think
that's a successful solution to how
you've provided um different areas on
the building to be active as an outdoor
seating area the main entry a secondary
entry maybe for the northwest corner uh
and then maybe even the main entry which
is going to be off the parking lot
that's everyone's going to park and then
come through the building um also I
think works really well and I think you
know you've kind of snuck two units to
kind of get your unit count I'm sure to
where it needs to be on the first floor
there um those are a little unique I
think the the the the door and the
window combo feels like a storefront
system I don't know if it is if it's an
separated door with a vinyl window um
but you know you're trying to bring
natural light into that unit I get it um
drapes will be always closed on that but
I I think overall the building layout
the planning on the site even though
that's not our jurisdiction is very
successful and it adds
to the characteristic changes and the
things that you've done on the facade uh
based on our previous meetings and it
has come a long way uh I did go back and
look at some of the early submittals uh
that I actually kept and uh you know I'm
really really happy with where you guys
have have developed this and I think
it's uh it's appropr it's um you know
it's definitely a simpler building but
but that's you know that's that's kind
of in the context of where we were
pushing in as a board but also we think
is very appropriate for this location um
and it's it's it works really well for
the neighborhood
um so I don't I I agree with Mr hire's
and and the other board members comments
I I am curious about um and I'll bring
pot into this a little bit uh the
trellises and how those uh are going to
be activated with the the landscaping
and what those trellises are uh because
I worry about longevity uh and in a kind
of a commercial building especially on
the parking side uh I love that it's
going to help soften that facade a bit
but can you talk a little bit more about
that yeah um I think we're still working
through some of the fine details of what
that is but um assuming that that picks
up on some kind of True Wood form um
something along the lines of Cedar
something that's going to blend well
with the fence the perimeter fencing
there along that South facade um but
generally just the idea of providing
this outdoor amenity space for the users
of the building and just it's it's small
we're calling it more so of a garden
walk but getting a little bit of an
overhead plane just to kind of create
that outdoor room um and just some
seating elements for outdoor eating or
socializing and then I I should have
clarified a little bit more that
rendering top right the oh these
trellises oh it's
trellis so it looks these are building
applied grid of something that's going
to allow lands uh some growth on it
correct yeah we talked about this for a
little while um so with with the site
kind of introducing that drive into the
parking lot um to really make
circulation a bigger priority we got a
bit tighter on Green Space on that East
facade so um we do have enough space
there in some of those spaces for some
of the foundation planting but that's
something we'll want to work through
with tree and public garden Commission
on what we need to do to meet
um one of our thoughts was taking some
of the landscape
vertical I think my only concern is what
that material is you know I would want
to see it as a tube steel you know
something that's robust that's not going
to bend or break like wood or you know
because that's something that will get
beat up over time and again if it's not
maintained now that these things look
half dead I mean I one in my backyard I
constantly ripping out the the dead
foilage so I just I'm C you know that
that's an important factor that goes
with long-term maintenance billing
operations something that they're going
to need to maintain because that is
facing residential side and if it starts
to deteriorate now we we have a
deteriorated vertical Landscaping on a
parking lot side so it's just doesn't I
I worry that that's gonna be more of an
eye store if it's not maintained moving
to the trellis on the the southwest
corner there's a rendering that I think
is of that space if not you found one
online that's exactly what you've done
uh but there's a there's another
rendering on the site plan landscape
plan I think it is sorry to mix you up a
little bit no they're they're separate
they're it's two high resolution
renderings is there a landscape plan on
the first sheet I think
yeah and I don't
know it's down bottom right corner so
all of no actually keep going to right
the images so these are photographs I
that looks like a rendering to me on the
right uh but it's almost exactly is that
the space yeah it is a space so I was I
was right so that's a rendering of the
idea of what that space could could be
uh but I you know I think that's going
to be maybe the most popular space that
for the senior center that's going to be
out here on nice days uh I think that's
an a fabulous way to activate that
corner and as's an extension of the
Interior Space um I think people are
going to walk by you know seeing people
inside I love the fact that the
building's at the street because when
that activity activities are happening
there people walking by will see that
and are connected to it not be separated
by this big parking lot that's there now
that everybody does love but you know
it's we're just flipping it so
I I I love the idea I think the my only
concern well not my only my only
suggestion is making sure that the
material that's selected is robust
enough to meet commercial standards and
not residential so the slots need to be
thick to thicker wood that everything
needs to be a little bit more robust a
little bit more City Barbecue esque uh
because it's commercial it needs to
needs to hold up over time and not be
kind of a maintenance nightmare so um o
overall I I don't have any major
criticisms things that were said earlier
I agree with uh from all all the board
members uh but I think it's it's
definitely uh come a long way great ad
so I'm definitely in favor of it I'm
just curious have you thought about
incorporating any brick Piers into the
arbor um we have not this space is
really tight um we're trying to kind of
get what we can out of a small space
kind of pulling off of that property
line buffer okay um I think brick Pier
might eat into some of that space um
just kind of following along the same
line as chairman Scott's comments that
it just looks a residential and it would
be nice to see it being a little bit
take on more character of the building
just a little bit one of the final
things too is that it's mentioned and
shown in the drawings um that is going
to be important is the actual awning
details right we know an awning is an
awning and Awning but there can be good
ones and some poor ones so I think the
shape of those awnings you know how
modern how closed the sides are you know
all of that is going to will play to the
aesthetic of the building uh again it's
not a major driver Factor but it you do
have all the main Windows have fabric
awnings so you're okay you're talking
about the fabric on that are justed in
for now so I know that's it's a
placeholder I know I think we've
actually seen renderings with them in it
not against them at all I just think the
details of those are going to be
important to make sure we get as we
continue to move
forward so there's there is in the
running and that's where I would promote
I would kind of a simple you know flat
nonbox style type of on and I think
that's why were looking at it to not to
have uh we were thinking of the awning
to be a sort of planer projection and
not something that comes down on no
fringes or nothing coming down the end
that would be my position too I think
that's it wants to be light but also
help provide especially a Westward
facing some sun shade for that
space I think it's partly to provide
shading and I think partly to sort of
come out into the sort of sidewalk band
and and sort of project the building out
at that ground floor and create a better
a human scale relationship no I think it
helps give it a little bit more
pedestrian it's changes the scale of
that facade to more of a one story so I
think that's well done so that's all I
had I think it's great progress thank
you Mr chairman I recognize that this um
is is a an application that is a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for a certificate of
appropriateness um I think it's
important that because this is a
flagship building for North Cassidy that
we have the opportunity to see these
details and the improvements that we've
requested so can we make a
recommendation
for uh moving to Bap um and request that
Bap send it back to us after their
review yes we can yes and I would
support
that so if we're ready to make a motion
or if there any other comments I'd be
happy to make that
motion board members any final
thoughts we have a motion then here are
the findings well we don't have we have
the findings effect for Bap did we do
yes um hold on just a
second
um the findings and fact and conclusion
of the law for
application
[Music]
number hold on let me just 24
50 um at 420
Cassidy for the architecture review
board uh recommends that the application
moved to the board of zoning and
planning with the condition that the
application be remanded back to the
architecture review board for final
design and
approval so I think that's all we really
need I have lists of things to email to
you technically do you understand the
findings effect yes moving on we have a
motion so moved H
second second
Calhoun
roll Miss
Jones Mr Hall yes Mr Calhoun yes Mr H
yes chairman Scott
yes thank
you move on to next one we're going to
take a three minute
so we'll be back
okay wash my hands mouth is burning my
nose is burning and my eyes are burning
right now like I washed my hands really
well and must be a really
good wife like that oh my God
yeah there's glasses on the top
shelf good
ice that's what I call that labor ice
huh oh
[Music]
yeah
e
e e
I don't know
yet okay recess
recess we will continue uh with the
second half or the second application
uh and for record it's Bap 2449 2300
Livingston
Avenue applicant come up and presuming
we'll start with you
again sure uh we'll skip all the first
part uh and just cut straight to what we
we we did have a great process of um we
had a uh as I said we met with the the
the South Bexley neighborhood
association we did a a mass mailing to
uh well not a mass mailing a targeted
mailing to the six block block
surrounding the um the site because we
really wanted to listen to our our our
nearby neighbors and about their
priorities for the for the location um
and then several more CommunityWide
meetings that were free for anybody to
come to um had really good turnouts um
and really clear guidance which was very
helpful on on um what folks um felt
about the the first version and and and
and what they wanted to see in a um in a
in a revised version and I think um
number one was
um a really top concern was safety of
kid of of of the residents um the folks
that live there and and would be
visiting there um really um an emphasis
from from our neighbors on making sure
that um sight lines and and and um the
ability to move in and out uh from
Livingston into the residential area
when you're in your car and be able to
see around corners um
and then um uh along the lines of of of
the safety comment was making sure we
could uh provide recreational
opportunities for um uh folks that lived
on site uh and their and their children
um and and then lastly um u a number of
folks wanted really just emphasizing um
as we make that transition uh from
Livingston into the in the residential
neighborhood emphasizing a resident
character um which was I I think really
um much like the the the the cityy
situation it really provided some
programming Clarity that um we could
provide to the architect um to really
hone in quickly on um on a new version
that um uh we've we' received a lot of
of favorable feedback from Neighbors um
about the quality of the design about
the look about the changes um so um I
could answer any questions if there are
I sense there probably aren't um and if
not I'll turn it over to
Ron so I think um
interestingly uh a lot of what the
community feedback came into us uh
mirrored
significantly uh the previous feedback
that we got um from the board as well um
which is that that uh we were really
looking to create a buffer building um
that's also transitioning between um the
sort of what I would call the corner of
Bexley um where it's it's really a a
significant and quick shift from a
residential neighborhood into a
commercial neighborhood um we're really
on the border of Columbus and um looking
across the street and and to the city of
Columbus neighborhood as well as looking
um sort of around the neighborhood in
Bexley uh where we're at um we took the
town home component of the building and
really created um a buffer building what
we're calling in terms of uh the way
that we're transitioning from something
that's a very strong architectural
vernacular of residential architecture
for the town homes um to something
that's transitioning more to multifam um
that's buffering to the commercial Zone
um that's going along Livingston Avenue
and so I think that that what that did
versus what we saw previously is it um
changes the perceived scale of the
building um and it changes the nature of
of the way the building acts um along
Livingston Avenue as well as um equally
important or as much um in terms of the
prominence along Francis Avenue right so
as it transitions from Livingston to
Francis um people that are traveling
along Francis really have that strong
residential feel that's that's the
Gateway towards the residential
neighborhood in that direction when
we're going down Livingston um we have
that one residential building that's
really sort of glued to the multif
family building um that's really
continuing that transition to the
commercial Zone as it goes along
Livingston in addition to that I think
that the other strong architectural note
um in terms of a shift is that um we did
move the building back and we have a
very very strong and prominent sidewalk
that's that's really more along the the
Future Vision Livingston Avenue in terms
of the way the city of beid perceives it
versus the current um so by pulling that
building back and adding 10 feet
sidewalks along with uh Stronger
planting zones I think that we're uh
creating a shift that uh doesn't really
exist in that nature yet but that
hopefully will sort of um become the
future of of Livingston and and the
relationship um in terms of the way that
the buildings address the street um and
then on the corner I think that um the
building is creating a shift uh you can
see that sort of uh porch on the corner
that's really the entrance to to a lot
of the units into the lobby and things
like that so that um people will be
activating that porch and it's not just
a a single family porch um and it acts
as a as a buffer along Livingston to
keep that the actual town home living um
push back in terms of the transition I
think also wrapping around the corner um
we wanted to to create something that
had um a small shift from the repetition
you can see the the way that the brick
pattern changes
the window pattern shift uh slightly um
to create an anchor along um that corner
so that it's not just um one facade type
and then shifting to another and and we
created that transition architecturally
through sort of moving and arching the
brick to go with that window um we have
elevated porches um for the town homes
as well um that are about three steps up
um creating a sort of um porch
atmosphere to each one of those units um
and creating that relationship in terms
of the way that building addresses in
the community and I think that's that's
something that um was sort of brought to
our attention from uh the Architectural
Review Board the last time we were here
um something we really took strongly to
heart and I think when we brought it to
the community um TCB got that uh similar
uh reaction from that in terms of the
transition and the relationships of the
building um so while we were here before
I think that you know we're we're sort
of in a in a different way sort of
presenting the the building and and the
way that it's um perceived um you know
we're eliminating the In-N-Out that's
currently on Livingston so that we're
providing it um as access to parking
just from Francis um so it's really just
rear access from parking um and creating
that sort of build building also I would
say that the town homes project further
than the multif family sort of apartment
building component um so that as you're
coming up and down Francis um that's
really creating more prominence than the
rest to the building which is perceived
in the background and I think that um
that along with the scale will help sort
of create a a better relationship to the
community and and that's what we were
really working towards in terms of the
color pattern um we really wanted to
stay within the warm Earth Tones um but
to create something that was bright and
um sort of lively so we were using uh
two colors of brick that you can see in
the um presentation material along with
um the sort of colored sighting and
things like that sort of created
something that was a little less heavy
but still within those earth tones in
terms of the way that it it sort of
worked in within the context um
something that I think also in terms of
the town homes that we're really
borrowing um from the very local
vernacular um when you drive down
Livingston um or drive up Francis I
would say that there's a a much stronger
relationship to that sort of front Peak
um than you would see in General um and
it's something that we accentuated here
as well um to create that relationship
to the sort of very local
community thank you thank you uh this
was the time for public comment anybody
that was standing would like to address
the board now is the time please come up
and state your name and address and be
sworn
in Tim Madison 956 Pleasant Ridge do you
swear affirm the testimony you give this
evening will be the truth I do thank you
Tim uh good evening um I am here to
share with you what the real Community
feedback was at these meetings that
they're referring to and that is that
it's crazy to put children on Livingston
Avenue and I know what you're saying
that we're not here to talk about the
use but what you have to understand
which in seven years TCB has never put
in writing in the city of beex also will
not say is there's going to be 45
children living on the corner of living
and Francis 45 children their
application says that there's 28
Apartments what it doesn't say is
there's 58 bedrooms intended for 45
children on this corner I am looking at
this picture and it actually makes me
sick to my stomach do you guys
understand Livingston Avenue do you
understand the traffic do you understand
the speeding do you understand the car
accidents you understand that a woman
was just hit and killed at this
intersection walking across the street
Street within the last month or two
there's been three deaths from people
crossing the street on Livingston
Avenue this building is closer to
Livingston Avenue than any other
building and that's the architectural
perspective on this there was a new
building which I'm sure you're familiar
with which is a 55 or older building
that was built on Livingston within the
last year compare the setback to that
building to this building there's Green
Space there's a huge setback and why is
there a set back in that building
because that developer in the city of
Columbus understands the dangers of
Livingston Avenue to put a
porch close to Livingston Avenue it
makes no sense do you do you do you have
children would you let your children
live on Livingston Avenue the answer is
no I don't know anyone in the city of
beex you should be embarrassed as a
Bexley resident to put 45 children on
this
corner I'm here to tell you you that as
a real estate attorney there's a turmo
use and it's intentional concealment TCB
as a developer my firm represents real
estate developers it's an intentional
concealment to this board and to Bap and
to everyone else in the city of Bexley
not to tell you that there's going to be
45 children on this corner under root
ask them ask them how many children are
going to be on this corner they don't
want to talk about it why do they not
want to talk about it because it's
stupid ridiculous to put children on
Livingston Avenue from from an
architectural perspective it's not just
the brick it's not just the window it's
where the building is being situated and
I'm telling you there will be children
that will be killed when they're
Crossing Livingston Avenue there'll be
children that will be killed when they
walk across college to get to the
Mayfield Ferndale Park area this is not
a place for children and I pray and hope
that you guys will make the right
decision from an architectural
perspective that putting children in
hard M's way this close to Livingston
Avenue is a grave grave mistake thank
you Larry Christopherson 885 Francis do
you swear affirm the testimony give this
evening will be the truth I do thank you
I've lived on Francis for 47 years I've
I like off everybody on my street we
love our street I still will not forgive
the city for making it more narrow when
they replace the sewer and water lines
in our street so we don't have that
big open space we had the best the
widest Street in Bexley it was so nice
but they saved a little money by
chipping a foot off either either side
okay we will live with that and it's
kind of been nice because it's slow
traffic down too because people have to
go like every other Street in Bexley you
can't often pass a car coming towards
you you have to pull over and that's
kind of
nice we have a constant problem of
emergency vehicle access to our street
people
visiting Capital University on the North
End continually Park in the no parking
zones which makes it very difficult for
a fire Tru to get through there and if
they can't really get in they're turning
off of Mound they can only get there
coming off of Francis this building is
going to create parking on both sides of
Francis on a regular basis at that
entrance if you ever try to go from
Francis from Livingston turn left onto
Francis and there's parking on the east
side of the street lucky you if you can
find a place to put your car and get
through because it is very difficult
space is just not there now I know that
we need low or moderate income housing
in Ohio in Columbus probably in Bexley
but you know to force a high priority
hope into a limited real estate
environment
which is it's nobody's fault I mean we
are landlocked that's a little postage
stamp piece of ground that's available
but it's not necessarily available for
this the building is there it's
commercial that's right but it's two
stories it's non descript we go by it
every day we don't see
it this building is three stories tall
it's huge and it's going to be seen
I just want to make sure that our
decisions here at the city government
level respects the residential aspect of
our neighborhood on Francis and Pleasant
Ridge this is an
encroachment that's that nobody could
anticipate is it the best use for this P
of ground for the city for the future I
don't know I'm a musician I'm an 8y old
musician and I've seen a lot of
transitions in my life and I just want
to be sure that we make this transition
the best possible for the for the
generations that come are going to be
living on Fran and on Pleasant Ridge
make this a Gateway that we're proud of
we don't want to put something there
that's going to say oh hell isn't that
nice bexy has Flor or Moder income
housing and LU for they let them live
but they don't make them a part of the
community and I think that is the
biggest dang we face with how we're
developing this thank
you anyone
else PK Smith 934 South Remington do you
swear from the testimony you give this
evening will be the truth I don't have
anything to say I have one question
where's the
parking maybe I missed that thank
you okay uh time we'll turn it over to
the board
um Mr Hall would you like to start us
off actually given this has got some
history I would ask that bill starts us
off if you
sorry
aot I don't want to
dive yeah I mean this this design um I I
remember the tow houses that were
designed before on
Francis and um some of the main
structure design and I think one of my
questions was where's where's the
park if there are going to be children
here where is the park so I think it's
it's highly relighted there uh right to
the left of the hand um so we have a a
sort of amenity Courtyard the idea was
to well we pulled the building back from
the street I think um pulling it back
further and providing Green Space to the
front on Francis we thought was was uh
sort of less advantageous just in terms
terms of providing a park space and
actually providing it protected and
buffered um within the back of the
building so what we have there is is the
parking um and the sort of Park uh
sitting within the rear um protected
behind the tow houses and and the sort
of multif family portion along those
paths we're calling it The amenity
Courtyard but that's essentially the
sort of Zone that we're looking at to
develop that in and where is the nearest
park where 45 children can actually play
I don't you have the
answer I mean that was a question I
asked in the last review and that it was
left open-ended but I mean this is a
concern you know that this
location um and yes I would say this is
architectural just in terms of the
amenities that are here on the property
versus not so I'm asking in reference to
those and then I'll follow that up and
you can talk with you know I think our
board was presented with the The Joint
uh plan between Bexley and Columbus for
the Livingston
Corridor I think it would have been
really helpful to have that as part of
this presentation because I think the
community needs to see what the eventual
Livingston Avenue is going to look like
um on the Columbus side as well as the
Beckley side to understand the context
of this building right now your
renderings don't tell us that they're
telling us what the immediate context
would be which I think is a little
frightening right so
it's understanding where this is all
going um is important and also
architecturally uh because I want to see
what the context is of this building and
these tow houses with what Columbus is
looking at for the south side of of
Livingston um I remember seeing a couple
renderings I think there were city of
Columbus renderings that showed what's
happening with the bike path and the
lanes and the medians and the buildings
on the South Side otherwise I don't
really have a lot of context here um and
one of the advantages of the lanu
strategy commission was that we we
actually were presented with renderings
that showed what North Cassidy would
look like eventually I think it's it's
important for this board to understand
where this is all going instead of uh in
the context of what you're proposing so
those those are two things you can
respond to can I just comment um just so
everybody knows um the Livingston Avenue
plan with city of Columbus is on our
website yeah just for everybody's
edification and if I could throw in one
more we
um it the sidewalks and the tree
plantings will look very similar 10-
foot sidewalks with the plannings that
they show
here little different but we haven't
finalized I'm on that committee we
haven't finalized a lot of those details
yet but it will be um a wide 10- foot
shared use path all the way down medium
in the middle trees on both sides of the
street um and we're working jointly with
Columbus right now on that design so and
is there they have taken a little bit of
that feedback and I we we gave them that
feedback and they've seen that on the
Livingston so it's kind of shown right
here but that will be both sides of the
street that's that's based on details
from the uh that's exactly the detail in
the Livingston Avenue plan from the city
of bleay and um I think we can in in we
can look further past just the Bexley
planning documents I don't does the
Bexley I never paid attention to whether
the Livingston plan is that that you
guys published is that a Columbus Bexley
plan or is that just a Bexley plan it's
a it's the joint
living absolutely we review that we um
um uh and all of the you know the um the
site details you see there along the
front are are our response to the the
guidance in that plan yeah so we we'll
bring in the overall context for that
but um the response would be besides the
overall context this is really sort
of vision of the future that that is
participating for for this this plan and
I think the template sidewalks is key as
well as the curved planting I want to
call attention to that it that it's
elevated and curved and and sort of
adding to that buffer zone um between
the street and that 10 foot wide
sidewalk that the sort of joint use
sidewalk yeah I think it's just it it'
be helpful in the next presentation to
have a street section so that we can see
that context um mksk and other I'm sure
pod and other Landscape Architects will
show us exactly what's going on in terms
of dimensions and curb levels and tree
you know medians and all that um because
I think this board will need to see in
the public need to see if they're
watching you know that they're going to
want to see that
context um
the last thing that I would mention in
terms of
just uh the scale of everything here uh
before I get into details
is
um
the
um and and and I also think I I asked in
the last presentation that there be some
kind of diagram showing where the
distance to those
Parks so if that could be put in you
know there's there's Havenwood um but I
don't know what else is available I
don't know what Columbus is doing on the
south side for amenities for the public
or if it's just a commercial
Corridor um I'm assuming you have a
variance granted for parking so that you
because there's only 25 spots
here but um there's 27 spots 27 yeah
okay um and then the other the other
issue with this project that I've always
had is the pedestrian aspect um not only
safety but for me a building that's on a
major quor with a facade on the ground
floor that has nothing but windows and
their residential windows is a problem
no no city does this New York doesn't do
this Philadelphia doesn't do it you know
the cities don't put residences on the
ground Flor I mean you have town homes
in certain residential dist districts
but this is a commercial Corridor and
architecturally I've always had a
problem with the idea that you're having
residential windows on Livingston Avenue
right on you know on the ground floor if
this was a commercial ground floor even
at the front along there and the
residents were were above a it would be
safer and B it would be more pedestrian
oriented people eventually hopefully
Livingston would be a place where people
can shop I think those images from The
Joint Commission show people going into
shops so this becomes a
very uh unusable
area for The Pedestrian there's nothing
there's nowhere for them to stop there's
nowhere for them to you know they have
to kind of get past all this to get to
the commercial
corri um I understand you're
transitioning to a residential
neighborhood so I I get that but it's a
very uninviting first floor just in
terms of the
occupancy um and then I think the
architecture kind of reflects that with
this sort of I would say
um more of really more of a commercial
looking uh building than than a
residential building um so and I
appreciate a lot of the little details
that you put into it I would definitely
want to see clarification on those
details but to me there's a coldness to
this and I think a lot of it has to do
with maybe the maybe it's that parit
wall up above um maybe it's the the
color of the sighting um and the the f
you know columns that are in between in
the center section there's just a lot of
detailing here that is it unlike the
North Cassidy I'm kind of confused as to
what this building is is doing and
architecturally uh like if when I'm in
Westerville on Cleveland Avenue this
would be a medical building to me typ
typologically there's there's not a I
I'm not reading this as residential
other than oh I see that there's no
doors on the ground floor therefore
it must be a residence or it's a private
office building um so the T typology
here is I think a little mixed and maybe
it has to do simply with the way that it
was developed to be only
housing um my other comment and then
I'll pass it on is the sort of
residential townhouse
aspect um and this is one of my one of
my pet peeves with uh modern computer
rendering is that even though you're
putting people in them my experience
after having seen beautiful renderings
here and then seeing the projects
built the scale is way bigger than what
we see in perspective in a lot of these
renderings and so what I'm looking at
the floor to floor height and that sort
of triple Gable that is that is a huge
that is a huge building um and I don't
mind the townhouse idea and I don't
think I think we were always kind of
playing with exactly what was going to
happen with those forms but the uh Gable
continuing down over basically three
floors is too big it's a residential
detail but it's too big I would break
that um so if you go to the El East
Elevation on Francis
Avenue you have basically what look like
three town homes three stories each um
at least archit actually in terms of
massing but the but the the Gable
continuing down all the way down like
this to a very short porch um is not
appropriate for a build building of this
scale in my opinion it's just too much I
think you would need to break it you
know somewhere and if you go to the
color rendering of the East Elevation
which is um yeah so you know there's
this is this is a problem for me
um it's again it's the scale is just too
much for this to be so
continuous and then if you go to the
perspective image we could go to the
perspective of
this there's a
rendering and then we'll go back to that
elevation if this is broken and there's
a different slope here I think these
actually will feel more in scale in
terms of the proportion of the roof also
in our residential applications we would
ask that this kind of Dormer thing not
be equal with the peak of the main roof
that you actually pull this down I
noticed that this is higher than up here
so I don't know what these windows are
uh going into but it would make sense to
pull these down so that these window
Heights are equal with these windows um
that will just make it look more
residential actually here I think it's
kind of forced if you break this so that
we have a break in this roof line then
this shed roof or um yeah shed uh kind
of Dormer thing would then come down
further and be more part of the second
floor and on top of that I would
actually extend it instead of
just um this this roof here and this
length is not even a residential
proportion it's it's just it's based on
Space the space that you've used to
create this just the uh uh uh you know
the homes the apartments that are up
here but this to me doesn't make any
sense and part of that's because of this
this this long length you know I'm
reading this big long rectangle so this
needs to come down this needs to come
down if this is going to be your porch
then let's really play up that
residential quality by bringing this
down maybe extending it even more
bringing this down and I would find a
way to actually widen this a little bit
more I know that you have a square
footage Max and you're working with you
know real numbers for square footage
costs but this proportion doesn't work
right now maybe you could convince me if
you broke this and then step down and
then had another roof and then I might
be able to buy that proportion but right
now I can't so I appreciate what you're
trying to do here and I'm I'm hoping
that your uh spna um feedback kind of
appreciated what you were trying to do
here as well but to me this isn't
working yet saying I think that um even
just where that that inflection point
happens at the at those lower set of
Windows we just stopped the roof line
there and flect up and then picked up a
different roof line below it or
something like that yeah I think you
want this triple Gable to show itself in
3D and right now it's not because this
is in the way yeah I'll bring that down
and then I'll stop the upper roof at
that inflection to the middle side yeah
I I I I don't I this is this is a
classic townhouse look we see it
everywhere now it's in Alexandria
Virginia it's in you know it's around DC
I'm sure your your company has worked
with these many times but if you're
going to keep that residential quality
then I do appreciate the break-in
material color uh although I wouldn't
pick yellow um we want more natural
colors I think that' be more Bexley like
this I think will date itself very
quickly in yellow and I love I love like
Roman yellow but this this is I don't
think the right place to do uh that um
but you know I I think if you have three
Gables and you have some kind of break
that people will read that as a
townhouse that if the details were done
right could look like they were they
were there for you know 50 60 70 years
or more um this is the trick right here
this can become too
I think kitch um the idea that you're
creating a little porch in a sort of I
don't know Williamsburg esque or just a
little house porch to me really an
entrance I mean it's it's it is an
entrance but it's reading like it's
reading like a it's read it's reading
like a porch that belongs on a one-story
house and that to me is is just it's
it's Overkill it's it's like it's it's
uh it's trying too hard so I think this
could have more of a
um of an urban quality to it as opposed
to a you know sort of country cottage
type of feel that would do a lot for how
you connect to this building because
look at this you just have this blank
brick facade and then you're trying to
articulate with Windows and punk
punctures and openings and stuff it's
too jarring of a transition so I think
this needs I think this needs some more
work although I do appreciate you know
the attempt and
the idea of creating tow houses in to
transition to the residential
district that to me I think needs more
work um and I really want to see the
relationship to the living uh the
Columbus um Beckley joint you know
development here because I want to see
how this building will play into what
the goal is on the South Side in terms
of a uh you know a cut a a street
section cut with roof lines you know
what's happening on the south what's
happening on the North and then I really
still want to see that diagram showing
me distance to to
Parks thank you Mr
[Music]
koun um so I will Echo everything that
Bill said I was the same mindset on many
of all of those items
actually I will add a
few I think the curval linear brick
element with the window above it and the
brick that runs around it that feels
highly out of place to me um it doesn't
it doesn't Echo anything else that's
shown anywhere else on the project um I
appreciate the fact that you're trying
to do something different there but it
that to me that was the first thing that
stuck out I was like what is that and I
tried to look for touchstones elsewhere
in the project and I couldn't find it so
maybe just simplifying that I think
through a lot of the the recommendations
that ideas that bill talked about I
think maybe that something might reveal
itself um to to maybe really just
simplify
that the other part that I'd like to
kind of emphasize is um Bill mentioned
the width
of uh I'll call it that that long
extended roof line that we talked about
breaking that up more if you look at the
South elevation of
that it really
um is evident in so when you see the
width of that portion that goes all the
way up and then how much I'll call it
void space is between it and the
building itself that is I think when
Bill talked about maybe extending those
lower Windows over I I certainly would
do the same thing with that roof line
because that to me that that that's one
of the strangest proportions of this
entire site so I understand that there's
stuff underneath there that's going on
but visually that needs to come over and
look like it's closer to it because
nobody would build a house that far from
a Mercantile type building that this
looks like so I think it needs to feel
like it it belonged there
more the last thing I'll say is I think
in the light portion this elevation is
fine you can scroll over just a bit to
the left um the light portion of the
building to me um Bill touched on this a
little bit with the the two pile after
pieces or the delineated column elements
that are going up that Center portion
the top part of it particularly feels a
little bit odd to me and I can't exactly
put my finger on it um I'm not sure
whether it wants to feel like it's just
a little bit lower if that would help
delineate that facade a bit more um it
it just feels a little odd now and it's
it doesn't I'm not sure that it comes
through the same in the rendering let me
look here real quick yeah it does um so
in in looking at that it just feels a
little weird being all that same height
and it really does emphasize the fact
that it looks like there's two desperate
building types that are slammed together
and I I think there's an opportunity to
make them um
better neighbors if you will
yeah there that's all thank
you I'm gonna continueous statement that
I just heard because it's it's what I
wanted to say um this very much looks
like two different building types slam
together um and that's that's my that's
my inherent problem with it the the U
the gap between the um the more
residential town home piece and then
this this other building that looks like
a school to me in some ways an old
school um is just throws the massing off
and you know my screen just went dead
um I'm good I can see up here throws
theand there there's a true disconnect
there there there's no flows you turn
the corner I I think the elevation along
Francis is actually a little bit playful
I think that has a lot of lot of Merit
to it I agree with the other board
members comments to it but it's got a
very nice residential feel to it um I do
I you know I love the Sol tooth or the
or the triple Gable there everything I
think that's that's well done um and I
agree with Bill's comments about the
long slope roof on that side but then
when you turn and you go to this
elevation on Livingston which is it's
got It's going to have this almost you
know sort of pedestrian Boulevard now
going down along the side and you're
just walking along all these windows and
you have no access to a you know a first
floor You're Expecting doors You're
Expecting entrances you're it's just
it's not pedestrian it's like you're
walk walking along a medical office
building in
Worthington um this middle piece in here
with the the the sort of fake columns um
yeah that needs to be I think that just
needs to be completely rethought I think
the idea was let's put this piece in
potentially that we're going to use
sighting it has a um a better tie in
with the res residential component and
so forth I I I don't see where that's
coming from I think the brick and the
detailing in the brick is is on the
right path if if brick is the right
answer for this I I really do you know I
I love all the you know the little
soldier courses and everything that's in
the framing going around the windows I
think that's that's a that's a you and
then the Herring bone that you're
presenting there in the middle between
the windows I think that's a nice touch
um but the the idea of how you got this
residential thing and then it's just
sort of slammed into what looks like the
back of a medical office building is I I
think that just needs to be that
connection needs to be
explored um a lot more I think it's got
and I think it's got a long way to go on
it and then that causes me to rethink
maybe some of the you know even though I
I like the residential flare of
the and everything maybe it's more of a
you know what I would think of a town
home or a brownstone maybe it's more of
an urban residential piece too um but
then again I struggle with it because
then you got single family houses on the
right on the other side of this and you
sort of want to build up from them and
then turn the corner um I I think the
porch here at Livingston I I you know
it's I don't know I don't know what
relevance that has in this this whole
elevation um either so um just building
what the other one said I think there's
a lot of work to be done on this and and
um you know and I I agree if there's you
know the if there's a lot of families in
here with children you know living
is a is a nightmare of a road we're not
going to fix that um but I think we need
to um take that into
consideration I think a lot of the board
members have already articulated some of
my thoughts on this so
I'll macro level I think
um really understanding the sighting of
this building going back to some of
those requests for vicinity Maps looking
at proximity to Parks um I do think
the the 10 foot sidewalks will help but
again you know providing that section
could be really beneficial just you know
to us as a board but as you know to
community at large to understand how
that area of Livingston might
change I think it's immediately alarming
toone with children um you know to think
about having a lot of kids that close to
a road but I I think if there are things
done to mitigate that um and just having
a full understanding of that would be
incredibly
helpful um I think as it pertains to
some of the architectural elements I
think you know comments about
um the East Elevation kind of on Francis
just really re rethinking and refining
the the roof pitch was one of um the
things that I had noted that I think um
probably need to be rethought a bit um
and
refined and then I think just maybe
color choices as well um I think the
yellow feels a little bit more like
Charleston than C centr Ohio um so I
think you know I I love the idea of kind
of that warmer color palette um so I
think you guys are on the the right
track but maybe just tweaking that a bit
um I think those are with my large scale
coms now thank
you complicated one uh this the location
of this project is is is is it's very
unique as you know you've been working
on it but it's there are many challenges
we've heard some some of the residents
tonight
um you know when you're building when
when you're part potentially plugging
into an overall master plan and
investing in that future and being maybe
the first out of the gate it's always
controversial uh the the The Pedestrian
the the the goal to have Livingston
become more pedestrian especially as you
move into the commercial retail corridor
to the West uh I think it's a lofty goal
I think it's a it's a good goal because
it's really really not a great Gateway
for Beckley on the South Side uh so any
improvements is welcome and I think the
changes they've made on Livingston to
slow traffic down going to a single Lane
I think has all been been been good but
it hasn't eliminated the problems
because cars are still running into
people front yards and people are
getting hit and and and you know related
to the safety along Livingston um uh you
know Livingston is probably maybe
broadest arguably even though the
setbacks are much deeper there uh the
most dangerous aspect of corridor
through Bexley there are a lot of
friends and families and friends of my
my kids that grew up here that lived on
Livingston uh and they had no backyard
Livingston was all alley based very
little backyard and uh no one played in
the front yard there was really nowhere
to go um and um so it's dangerous for
single family homes it's shouldn't
there's no difference when you start to
put in multif family the challenge is
how do you address the building against
the street and make it a pedestrian
building fire and others have talked
about that pedestrian street not being a
retail Corridor you don't have retail
shops here that's not part of the
program um I'm not sure if you even did
that that anybody would even come in
here because of the traffic and how you
park and and that's going to cause a
whole sortment of other issues um so
then it comes down to fine we'll put let
put multi family on the first floor
along the street but then how do you
make it a pedestrian feel how do you get
connected as a inside the building as a
tenant to the streetcape and this
intersection is unique because it's a
it's different angle there's a 45 Street
that goes into Southside um and it's
always going to be unique and it's
always going to be a challenge so I
think the The Dilemma is how do you
architecturally create that atmosphere
without necessarily providing that
amenity and I think where I think this
is struggling for me is is that it is so
closed off it is so very repetitive and
and and created almost a wall to that
Livingston Avenue uh on the west side of
your portion the largest portion of your
design uh and then it totally
says okay that program and that idea is
here but on this last third to the east
we're going to totally open it up and
make it this residential house and this
this front porch and and it kind of just
and as as other board members have
slammed it
together so I wonder when I look at the
the the side uh one I totally agree with
the the parid height should change a bit
between your brick portions and the
center portion that would go even a foot
would go a little bit a long way to kind
of help break that up I think the
detailing and the the the way you're
treating the windows in the brick
portion and then there are very similar
windows in the center portion I think
could be different they're they're a
little different there's a three Bay two
Bay you have the three the larger window
with the two side windows in the living
areas and then the two in the bedrooms
maybe those are some single windows and
are broken up a little bit maybe the
living areas have Juliet balconies now
you've created a door a balcony idea
that you may never even open up but at
least you're creating this pedestrian
connection to the streetcape so I think
that's one of my my challenges with this
is that there's zero connection other
than a visual from inside the locked
window or maybe an open window to the
street um even on the second and third
floor first floor of course I get it
you're going to want that a little bit
more secure um but I feel like this is a
little too harsh a little too much of a
wall on the south side of backl um the
the pyer details trying to break up that
mental Mass to me is a little bit
foreign
um I get why you did that maybe but I
think it's it's more of the condition of
there's repetitive large window openings
and maybe if those are split that
becomes a little bit more residential so
you split the bedroom windows instead of
being ganged up you split them pull pull
them apart a little bit and that gives
you a little tighter repetition a little
bit more articulated repetition in that
facade low the brick ones to be the way
you have it because I do like the
banding of the two floors a little bit
of the the coining and the corners to
help articulate that the architectural
style I think is successful um but I
think as you continue to develop this I
think those moves will help give this a
little bit more residential feel less
School less Mo style building you
definitely are in a commercial Urban
Corridor it doesn't feel like that
because of all the single family homes
but you are transitioning from your East
Side to your west side and I think
that's the right move I think you're you
need to plan for long term uh and I
think you need to uh try to connect into
this master plan but you're just in a
very unique position because across the
street there isn't going to be the same
condition you're not going to have a
building across the street guaranteed
it's there's no space for it unless they
change the roadway so um it's it's kind
of a unique spot and location um that's
ending a very very unique single family
portal into the transition and and
actually I like the quirkiness I totally
agree with the proportion and some of
the comments of roof lines I think you
agree with some of those changes to the
roof lines that Mr H talked about but it
is slamming this shingled gable roof
into a brick and if you go to the
prospective Corner rendering you have
this three-story brick and you can see
it there the three story brick facade
sitting on top of the gable roof which
you know is kind of to me it's a little
awkward I don't know if I don't think
that's changing the brick I think your
brick massing is appropriate I would
drop the parit on the back of foot drop
the parit on in the center building and
let the brick be a little bit more
Monumental book ends for that and then
rethink the connection how what is that
that because I kind of like the one
story window mass and I like the idea of
the porch I don't think people some
people will be sitting out there it's
not a very picturesque view of
Livingston Avenue and across the street
to the JCC as much as we love that um so
I I I like the idea of softening massing
of the corner so I think that's
appropriate but uh I also agree that it
doesn't want to be this this type of
architecture style I think it needs to
be a little bit more
urban which I think can actually become
unique right it starts to change
transitions not just a to B it's it's
around you're wrapping that and blending
them together as you wrap the corner
into the residential neighborhood and
one just technical note on on the term
porch um I think that uh you know we as
I noted we elevated the building in
order to create that the actual porches
on the top rooms um so the actual
entrance then wrapping around is also
elevated which I like um so it's it's
really a ramp disabled access to go with
those front
stairs a a ramp coming up against the
railing yeah so we don't perceive people
sitting on on chairs out there or or
really hanging out out there as much as
it's but it's designed to look like a
porch design to like a porch but not act
like a porch so I think again I would
just change the tone to a little bit
more urban context maybe it's brick
Piers or something that you're but I I
like the the trans the breaking down the
mass at the corner and again you have a
purpose for that with the ramp um and I
think that will help transition with the
roof changes that was discussed earlier
maybe the rethinking I like the
uniqueness and quirkiness of the arch
it's it makes that corner unit very
prominent maybe in that condition I
don't like the gabled front porch tacked
on like the other two so that uh but I
think all of that's going to continue to
develop as you continue to work on the
corner overall I think it's it's it's a
challenging it's the right location for
the building it wants to be at the
street we want to stay away from pushing
this building right into the backyards
and the bring Helms to the north I think
that's smart there is a rendering I
believe maybe it came from pod of the
fence and how you stepped the fence down
at the parking you're screening that
parking lot from the neighbors I think
that's appropriate but it also you can
also see the the small playground that's
there that's a little fenced off from
the parking lot that would give some
small area for kids um to play I I we do
a lot of multif family in my day job uh
the percentage of families that would
would potentially want to live here or
live here or typically live in these
types of buildings is is not uh 50% or
100% of the units it's it's lower than
that but we will because Bexley is
attractive and especially if this is
more affordable housing you're going to
get some families living here and we do
we obviously safy is always a concern um
but no matter what you build here it's a
concern you can do five single family
homes on the site and every single one
of those with the same concern of front
yard play and and other things so I'm
not I'm not sold specifically on that
you're not gonna you know as it was
mentioned earlier you know 40 if there
was 45 kids in this building they're not
all going to play here they're going to
be in the neighbor's yards and and
tearing up their front yards and uh so
you know that's that they're gonna go
North and the parks you know to the West
that Bexley has it's pretty far uh
Crossing College uh maybe they go there
I doubt it I think they're going to go
North to Capitol and and over to
Montrose is pretty much where I think
that's going to end up but within the
adjacent area that we control in terms
of the site yes I think it's it's
important to note in terms
of an architectural perspective on
safety that we are fencing off the
perimeter besides the the entrance um
that we're sort of using the building as
a buffer on the other side to sort of
centralize we're calling a flexible
amenity Zone to the extent that we can
provide on the site without impacting
parking and then therefore negatively
impacting the neighborhood um so we
we're trying to balance that and provide
as much as possible um and in that I
think vacating opportunity along fa
Franklin for play by just providing the
sidewalk and just providing the tree
line buffer zone and things like that I
I think that's appropriate is is what we
thought architecturally could be the
move to to push anybody with that desire
within our in our community that's going
to be living in there to to sort of play
in the play Zone on the safe side and
and sort of again you're very limited
and you have a density Target that
you're trying to get all these things
are complicated ratios that you're
trying to work so I think you I think
the plan is addressing all of those
concerns uh I think in the end
stylistically the building itself just
feels too closed off to Livingston and
it's it's it's maybe it's a different
window configuration maybe it is a
Juliet Balcony you took all the
balconies off in the earlier versions I
think you did have balconies and that
was some of the neighborhood's concern
of people sitting on balconies looking
down uh so I appreciate that but I I
feel like it's almost too close it's too
commercial so
just ways of architecturally getting a
softer and a better connection from the
interior environment to the streetcape
and with addressing the Julia balconies
we we can definitely investigate it I
always feel like it's a it's a tease
because it IT addresses the community's
concern without actually providing
something to the residents I I don't
disagree but if it's done right if it's
a double door A lot of times that's
harder to do and there water and all
these other things uh but it does allow
some people that want to live in an
urban environment live on Main Street
they are now going to be live more on
Cassidy uh and and on Livingston and
that that noise is something that they
like so um again you're never going to
get the full Urban here because we don't
have the other side of the street but
here's the so here's Livingston in 20
years um maybe uh so it's you know the
vision for this the streetcape is is
very different than what it is now and
this building though doesn't play plugin
directly to this concept because you
don't have a first floor retail where
it's located does fit in stylistically
because it it it starts to transition
that right yeah and I think it provides
so it doesn't provide that ground floor
retail shopping experience which
honestly is as Pioneer property I don't
I don't think that it could support that
um but it does provide if you look at
the way that the planting areas and and
zones are for these sort of outdoor
living rooms along the street um to sort
of engage people as they come down and
and create seating or hangout or or
spaces once the community sort of builds
up from there um and that's what we're
hoping in terms of participating in it
um that it helps activate that that
portion of the street so you can see the
the large sort of 20 foot setbacks I
think you can you can address that in
terms of planting even better but I
think that that's the idea of those 20
foot sort of curb zones in addition to
the 10 feet is to create those spes that
you see in the renderings um that we
would sort of participate in um with the
community and sort of providing no and
you know I I respect the effort that
that's that in the the way and and I
think you've created this landscape
buffer on an urban street that typically
you wouldn't do because they're first
floor residential and you're trying to
soften that you know in your setback so
I I think you're you're finding
solutions to the problems you're having
I think the challenge is how does the
building then better relate to those
that street skate I think you may want
to hit on that too but I think you can
see it even better in the landscape plan
than you can in the renderings in terms
of the way that um the ground floor
isn't slapped up against the sidewalk
there is that green buffer zone that is
there is that softening transition it's
not commercial and it's not we won't
have the ability to provide that but no
but if you go along Fifth Avenue and I
won't tell you who the architect was but
there's first floor
residential patios on the streetcape of
the Commercial Street it's very
difficult so there's a landscape buffer
between that but it's a very unique
condition because it doesn't typically
happen so um even on Long Street
industry that's over there has those
first floor balconies right they're very
secluded but they're they're right on
the streetscape so it's you know I don't
I'm not promoting that you would do
porches or little patios here but you
know it could be a different window
configuration there's the different way
and I think it's not even the first
floor I think the first floor has its
own challenges based on things that we
both have said here tonight about you
know how that streetcape is activated
but it can happen on the second and
third floor yeah I think we'll look at
we'll look at relationships
architecturally to create a more sort of
pedestrian friendly ground floor that
has residential on it and look it out
splits from above okay yeah it's gonna
be a challenge I'm sure yeah I I I would
just say that this more I look at I mean
I'm looking at this joint plan and you
know the image of the commercial
Corridor having buildings on both sides
like this it's all pedestrian
oriented and your your
um um your use that that has been
assigned to this
building uh doesn't allow for that
because it's not mixed use right it's
just residential so and on top of that
you're at the edge of the commercial
District you're not into the residential
district yet in your in on your property
um according to the this plan the
Livingston plan and so you know how do
you and then you've got issues of crime
and you've got issues of
safety um just I don't know how this
particular
package works you know in the location
that's I'm really struggling how it
works in this location given those
constraints um but if I you know if if
there was a way to convince me that the
design of this build building with
residential on the first floor works
because of you know its relationship to
what's happening on the south side of
the street or the West you know
eventually or you could come up with a
scenario a couple scenarios of how those
relationship because there's nothing
there yet but it might be convincing to
see how it relates to other things but
being the flagship building of this
whole
development you know it's it's just
really hard for me to see how this how
it fits I mean there was what just last
year there was talk about Bexley um um
Beckley um
Auto you know being turned into a sheets
uh there was rumor about that happening
that would have that would never have
fit into this right so I mean there's
there's all kinds of things that people
are thinking that levingston Avenue is
going to be and you know if if we knew
better what how your building will tie
in at some point it might be helpful
I
mean in response to that I would say
architectural finishes aide dramatically
speaking um we're sort of the first in
place in this and uh that would put a
lot of pressure on a commercial Zone
that we're not able or the owner is not
able to accommodate right but you're in
the commercial Zone in addition to that
I I think that you know pedestrian
commercial as a standalone building in
the first in place um
would be extremely challenged in that in
that neighborhood as well so to be maybe
not the perfect best highest use for the
overall Future Vision of of that street
Corridor but to be the first in place
that's helping set a precedent that's
helping create the Cadence and the
relationship to this Vision um I think
that I think that it helps set
up um something that we hope will be
adopted on either side of us that that
can continue on and and yes you know in
30 years that might be different but for
now I think that as a first in place we
feel that it it really participates in
in that sort of overall goal as as much
as we
can I I think and I'm gonna rely on Matt
and hopefully I don't go off the rail
share Matt but I believe that with the
um the recent zoning legislation that
was passed um part of what was uh
included with that was
um the the mechanism for the uh for Bap
to approve residential as a first floor
use andd correct yeah so I think which
is to say there was a very intentional
decision made that it is okay to have a
first floor residential use and this is
a very recent decision at this location
in a building like this like not
withstanding all the you we've still got
architectural design issues to solve but
the use I think is is anticipated and um
at the discretion of the the bees app to
approve I I don't I don't um I'm not
arguing with the idea of residential on
the ground floor but if you look at
other Urban examples of that like a UK
Court in Chicago where you're you're
stepping off the main and there's only
two you know ends of the U that actually
face the street and then you have this
private Zone that leads you to the main
entry that's deeper I know your property
doesn't allow for that but that's why
this is such a challenge because there's
so many Urban examples of ground floor
residential but the typology that you've
been kind of driven to in this layout is
not residential so that's why I think
that's part of the struggle well but you
could also look at neighborhood launch
downtown here Columbus where that's all
residential first floor but they're and
even the half Flor below but that's a
very different type of urban environment
and you're looking at Town Homes and
also steps going up and there's a lot
more character that you can't build into
this because you don't have that depth
but again there's Solutions there in
that type of context that's my first
comment was this is a unique location
because of even the master planning
where you were locating and what's
around you it's just a tough
location respecting that I think you
guys have done a good job locating the
building trying to get the amenities on
the site Landscaping um but for me the
building itself isn't connecting to that
streetscape there's no pedestrian feel
it feels like a you know I could go
medical office or Insurance feel like a
business so I think that's the the
challenge is softening it a little bit
with that
yeah um this is going to be zap no
matter what no
okay ultimately yes but it's up to you
whether you want to see it if there's
more changes than you think are
reasonable to rec
recommended you can ask for them to come
back or we
can
without yeah or asking for come back for
sure so that's so for beap it's going to
be your call as the applicant we can't
table it we you can you can right yeah
we a board can't this a BAP application
correct you you can table it no they we
can too that would we can oh we can I
thought we just clarified we could well
that that was what was clarifying I
apologize I missed okay so we could you
could also table it and we could
continue to work for another another
session and and see some revisions and
then we would recommend that you get a
recommendation from us as you go into
Bap for your
variances I I think what we're suggest
you're suggesting option could be that
we table here but we're able to go to
Bap to begin receiving feedback from
them on the
um their aspect of this and then come
back around for more that wouldn't be a
table that would be a uh send it to be
up with no recommendation with the
condition that it come back to us for um
final design riew you wanted to go app
we would then give something to them as
a as an advice of where we think it is
either a positive recommendation could
be a negative recommendation or no
comment and I think it's important for
the public that it that it does go to
beap because I think that's where a lot
of these discussions are going to be had
we're architecture review so if we um
make the if we make a vote that it go to
that it move on to Bap without a
recommendation or a negative
recommendation from this board and then
it come back to us after Bap then the
public gets to be part of that
discussion at Bap about a lot of these
issues that have been brought up tonight
which is probably a more appropriate
forum for a lot of these issues that
some of the AUD members have brought up
tonight um I I think it's important in
our decision because you know of the
visibility of this case and the
importance of it that we also articulate
um why we're not making a recommendation
positive or
negative which has to do with
architecture and not with right right I
think we should be very clear very
clear we've we've learned in over the
years to make sure that we put in our
reasoning and our in our recommendations
and our and our record of actions and I
think you know we what I'm hearing is
that the board's not comfortable with
this design to give a positive
recommendation but they do want to hear
but you do want to hear it go to Bap so
that a lot of these concerns that really
more appropriate at Bap and we should
give this as much FaceTime to the public
as we possibly
can yeah so I think the first decision
from the board tonight is is do we call
for it to be tabled and we have them
come back before we push it to
Bap or do we let them go to Bap and then
we'll decide next so I would like to
make uh the
motion that um this application
uh move on to Bap without a positive
recommendation from the ARB um and that
it returned to us for the following
reasons the massing the details the
location um the complications of the uh
typology you know the the kind of
massing and building type that we're
looking at we feel needs a lot of work
and that we're not ready to make a
recommendation
uh in the positive to Bap in that
regard uh let's see what my attorney
said what is uh no just I feel like you
know when when we when we're in this
situation I feel like I need to get on
the phone with my attorney well I'm
gonna type something up and we'll see
how it sounds but that's that's what I
would that's what I would say in general
we have a motion from the board I would
like a reading of fact so that the
applicant understands what we're doing
that's and then we can go to vote
you want a
second I'd like to I think we need to
summarize in the reading effect okay and
then we'll
second I think on this one unless you
object I agree okay it's a little out of
process but
okay I'm going to need a little help
with this but I think this is um
all right
um the architecture review board facts
and findings inclusions of law for
application number
2449 at property located at 2300
Livingston the architecture review board
recommends that the application be moved
to the board of zoning and planning
without a positive or negative rep
recommendation The Architects review
board feels that neither a positive or
negative recommendation is appropriate
at this time and would like to see the
following issues explored massing
incorporation into the Livingston joint
plan I'm ready for you to
add more things building
details um proximity to
Parks you're welcome to pipe in
proximity
to
to parks and City recreational
areas more more study of the
um I mean you said it with massing but
it's it's really about the
residential
um
character of the uh the building in this
context which is now a basically a
commercial Corridor for the joint Bexley
Columbus Livingston Avenue Corridor
that's
um massing incorporation into the
Livingston joint plan uh Livingston city
of Columbus Bexley joint Plan Building
details proximity to parks and City
recreational areas uh study of the
residential car character of the
building in the commercial District
yes that's that's that's
right I think this these are pretty
all-encompassing at this point but I I
the more the better you know I want to
make sure that it comes back to us with
very explicit and you have very
explicit um description of what what
needs to be
done anything else well I mean there
were so many comments about details and
massing of the particularly the Francis
Avenue piece that
um we would just reference the um the
discussion that was here on a lot of
that I don't think you're going to need
to put all of that detail in okay
writing but great and pursuant to the
dis you know the the ARB meeting um
discussion because this is recorded
right so they they anybody could come
back and say well this is what they're
referring to in the requests meeting
minutes
okay great do you want me to read it
again huh
all right back some finding conclusions
of law for the application number Bap
2449 at the property located at 2300
Livingston The Architects review board
recommends that the application be moved
to the board of zoning and
planning without
recommendation with the condition that
it be remanded back to this Bo to the
architecture review board for final
design review and a certificate of
appropriateness the architecture review
board does not feel a recommendation
either in positive or negative is
appropriate at this time and would like
to see the following issues explored
massing incorporation to the Livingston
Bexley joint plan uh Columbus Bexley
joint plan um building details massing
roof lines proximity to par parks and
City recreational areas study of the
residential character of the building in
this mixed use commercial district and
all other issues addressed in the
Architectural Review Board reflected in
the meeting
minutes I only have one thing to it's at
the very beginning I would say that the
ARB
um votes to
move instead of recommend because the
term recommend is being used several
times we are not recommending anything
we are voting that it move to Bap with
not a positive or negative
recommendation great votes to move the
application to the Border zoning and
planning um without
recommendation that's uh Mr Beall
talking through we can use
him do you understand these findings
facts would you like to hear them one
more time yeah we do understand okay
thank you uh we have uh the official MO
by Mr do we have a
second second call thank you can I get
roll call please Miss
Jones Mr Calhoun yes Mr hire yes Mr Hall
yes chairman Scott yes
yes good Lu at PE
up down
here uh do we have any other business
that we need to address tonight mat Mr
[Music]
cler does staff have any open to
make do we have any final business that
you need to cover um not that I'm aware
of I'm still crafting yeah other
business before I adjourn no I think
we're good do you think of
anything jour
Jed hey Mr how you doing I'm doing well
good to see you good to
see uh yeah building and planning