even turn it
on all
right it being a little after 6 we'll
call to order
the March 2025 meeting of the Beexley
Board of Zoning and Planning
matt will you call the role please
mr asher Bunner here mr king here mr
rosenthal here mr levine here mr marsh
here mr shik here chairman beh I'm here
as well thank you all right the I saw
that we did get the minutes and of
the January meeting we have the minutes
of the February meeting too let's see
apologies chairman we do not have them
finished for this meeting okay to
approve those in All right april so has
everybody that was at the January
meeting reviewed the minutes of the
January meeting and if so are there any
comments or additions subtractions or
deletions or whatever else
modifications seeing none do I hear a
motion to approve the January 2025
minutes as provided
so move Shik thank you second second
thank you Mr levine all in favor of
approving the minutes that say I i i i
abstain because I was not at the meeting
so I
I abstain as well you abstain as well
okay we have two abstensions the rest
approve the minutes are therefore
approved of the January meeting
there is a opportunity for the public to
make any comments regarding the
operation of the board of zoning and
planning as opposed to making a comment
about any particular case if there's
anybody here this evening who wishes to
comment publicly about the board and its
general operation please let me know by
raising your hand i see no hands so with
that we'll move on to
the applications
uh that are before us tonight we have
one know we have a couple pieces of old
business the first one is application
BZAP 24-49 involving 2300 East
Livingston Avenue the applicant is Bill
Downing the owner is Beexley Apartments
LLC is the proponent for that uh please
come for those gentlemen
the uh applicant is seeking a
certificate of appropriateness to build
a new multif family mixeduse building in
a mixeduse district appropriately
enough the um Matt don't you give us a
quick little background because I know
we've had this case before and we're
moving through the process here we are
thank you chairman um you all have or
this board had previously approved uh
the variance and conditional use for um
the building and then remanded it back
to ARB uh it went through a couple
iterations at ARB and at the March
meeting uh the architectural review
board passed it uh three to zero a
positive recommendation to you all um
the ARB had some design details they
wanted the applicant to fix but nothing
too
um too egregious that uh they couldn't
work with the staff city staff
consultant Karen Boer uh to finalize
um let's see
uh we did receive uh the the the
applicant did go to the Tree and Public
Garden Commission yesterday and it did
their application did pass with about
five um conditions that the applicant
agreed to um all of those conditions so
they did pass the Tree and Public Garden
Commission
um delight on that i think uh we have
Jason Sudi our city planner here uh to
add
anything um that I missed you put in
that's a that's pretty much it um there
there haven't been other any other
substantive changes uh outside of what
those two boards were interested in
modifying the application uh the the one
remaining item which the applicant has
agreed to with regard to the site design
is to match the Livingston Avenue
streetscape project as we discussed last
month and just as an update to you the
preliminary design review and updated
budget have uh both gone through the
city of Beexley and the city of Columbus
and that project is on track and we were
assured by the uh Columbus team just I
don't know three days three days ago
that they see no uh concerns about
funding and they're uh con you know
they're they're confident that it will
proceed as it was planned so that should
be a project that we'll be seeing break
ground here in the next couple years so
we're excited about that um the only
other uh item if you look through the
long list of requirements that are under
the LA zoning district that have not
been resolved um that the applicant will
uh clarify tonight with is regarding
lighting um and we have some criteria
with regard to the height of pole lights
that can be in the parking lot or uh
either if they use building fixtures or
if they use those they would have to be
cut off fixtures so that no light could
intrude on neighboring properties so um
they're still working through that and
they'll either have to address that
tonight or that may be something that
they have to um you know come back to
the ARB to deal with at a future time
all right so I've got
two two more items just for everyone's
um information as far as the process of
this um so because it's a a BZAP
application BZAP grants the certificate
of appropriateness in that case so when
it's just an ARB application no
variances are needed arb has the
authority to grant a certificate of
appropriateness but in this case um
that's why we're here tonight it's only
to grant a certificate of
appropriateness no variances or
conditional uses those have already been
um passed uh and then one other item if
the board votes to approve the
certificate appropriateness um staff
would recommend just conditioning it
i've already met with the applicant and
the neighbors and we came up with a
solution for the fence um but we would
like to condition it on installing the
fence parking lot posts uh on center of
the parking spaces that was a um some
common ground we found for added
protection against cars running through
the fence onto the neighbor's property
so if we figured if we set those fence
post on center they would run into
diminish the chances of any Yeah
altercation that you don't want yeah yes
got it okay that's interesting
karen how about from the ARB perspective
yeah i just I'm not going to There's
some minor details that as they come
through they're noted in um some of the
conditions or I just in my notes that
I'll be looking for but I did want to
point out because as we go through this
you'll see the difference the applicant
responded to the board's I I don't want
to say I guess dislike of the way that
the gable dormer was originally designed
and came back with two options their
presentation was really based on no
dormer at all but at the end of the
review we decided that everyone agreed
um including some audience members that
uh the shed dormer was a better way to
go so when you see that option if we're
going to run through any presentation at
all I don't know if you even are going
to as this is just a confirmation of the
recommendation of ARB we will be using
the version that has the shed dormer
okay that's on Livingston Livingston and
that was the picture in my staff report
that you all saw with the shed dormer
right which I pull up all
right applicants want to add anything to
the to the U presentation that we've
been
given a request that came in this week
so that here no I mean
yeah I was and then they didn't have a
chance to review it i mean I would just
ask that the board you know city staff
will review it and if if we have any
issues um we reserve the right to bring
it back to the board if if we see any
issues most likely Jason will review it
so that's all but all right then nothing
else to add
yeah I didn't for you i mean this is not
testimony yet anyway but you're just to
say that it's been great working with
everybody uh we're excited about the
project i think really happy to be here
just um seeing everything come together
um at this stage with without a lot of
drama without a lot of um you know
things dragging on it just kind of
exactly the way we would have hoped that
that we would uh finish this process
thank you you're vice versa on that one
so thank you
all right can I just point out for
clarification it's the upper right hand
okay um version version with the smaller
more delicate
brackets and the shed dormer
francis are those single family
town homes or
they are town homes just for one family
um they'll have to answer that question
they single family okay now I need to
swear you in
though you want the answer to that
question well just curious i don't think
it's relevant okay i have to swear them
in go through that if you want me to not
worth it okay it's up to you
you know the answer nope
okay all right i can't remember if
they're I think they are
there might be some other folks in the
audience here though that want to speak
to this application i need to ask about
that as well is anybody here that is for
or against this application that we
wishes to speak to the board about it
before we vote yes ma'am
i Turner I do swear to Do you swear or
affirm that the testimony you give the
board this evening be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth
i'll help you there i just have a
question i was hoping to see the
lighting um what they had today if they
have some images I think it would be
nice to see those if they don't I
understand i'm in communication with
them about it but okay i was my presence
is here i was hoping to see it so we'll
we'll find out here shortly
so now I do need somebody to come up and
get sworn
in and then you can ask your question
rick sir would you raise your right hand
do you swear or affirm that the
testimony give the board this evening be
the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth i do okay and state your
name please for the record george
Savannah george uh would you answer her
question please if you can and then
we'll let Rick ask his question um we as
I as I noted before we've submitted a a
lighting plan
um this week at um Oh you uh Mr uh
request uh I I if we want to look at
that we can um that's probably the the
best way to answer your question okay
good
um and I I think the other question
while that's coming up was about the uh
along Francis those are um each uh
doorway is into one single um town home
apartment where we would imagine you
know they're either two or threebedroom
units thank you
well it's downloading it's downloading
okay good but she made the effort to
come here tonight i think we should let
her see what we've got there we go rest
of us like to see it
too so I'll note the project is uh will
be uh qualify as lead silver so in
addition to any requirements under um uh
that we have through be city of Baxley
to to meet the lead silver requirements
we can't contribute to light pollution
or anything like that and there's other
standards that guide um how we light the
site
good
just let me know if you want me to stop
on a certain
but you have to come up to the
microphone but yes absolutely
um
the red square right there um above the
window that's part of the town homes um
what what kind is that a light I assume
all
right your name please bill Downing bill
do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth i do thank you very much
um yeah so these square rectangles we
have the legend on the first page but
those are all wallpack lighting as
you'll see uh there um so it's downward
facing so it does not cast a broad light
it'll be very much in a dimensional just
geographic area on the property okay
and um don't you don't need any more
back in that corner um we don't believe
we will um on that area we don't believe
we will on that area this time where um
everything here is subject to a full
phototric study so if it does come up
that that area is not properly lit for
safety standards um that we need uh we
may need to you know do another light
pole over there that would be similar to
fixture G um but our goal right now we
believe that the wallpack light in that
corner will cast enough light into that
corner that um will do it and then um in
that area is it's got you know fencing
um all the way around so you won't have
circulation coming from that back corner
as well for any pedestrians coming
cutting across our property
yes ma'am how about on the west side
where you know I'm concerned about the
safety of everyone in that in that area
sure um I don't see any lighting there
uh yes so um to the west of this
property that is a auto shop right that
that line right there there is a
retaining wall currently um and we're
heavily landscaping that property to
kind of create a natural property
boundary that um is not intrusive to the
surrounding area um so we felt that um
lighting there would really just be
behind trees and shrubs so it'd be
ineffective on a lighting standpoint um
but if that's of a you know concern we
can look at the ground uh no so there
really just isn't anything reling there
because there's you have shrubbery you
have you know evergreens you have
arborite um and you have you know tall
upright trees all throughout that entire
coast that's a pathway though right um
no no no that's not intended for anyone
to be walking back and forth there's no
sidewalk that goes okay i thought Okay
thank you thank you
thank you Bill and chairman if I may yes
sir clarify uh the phototric study is a
part of the building
permit so yeah so yeah our chief
building official and myself will review
that and Mr city all right anything else
to add from the staff after
that all right members of the board any
questions or comments
or thoughts regarding the application
for certificate of appropriateness here
this
evening i see none we have findings of
fact conclusions of law Matt on this
case please
yes chairman findings of facts and
conclusions of law or BZAP for
application BZAP 24-49 for property
located at 2300 East Livingston Avenue
the board of zoning and planning accepts
the recommendation of the architectural
review board to grant a certificate of
appropriateness per pegs code section
1220.02 Q and U to demolish the existing
structure and build a new multifamily
mixeduse building in a mixeduse
commercial district the following
conditions that the fence post be set on
the fence post for the north fence be
set on center of the parking
spaces and the street the the
streetscape frontage be in conformance
with the selected design for the uh
Livingston Avenue streetscape
project um and then at the the site
modifications design and materials will
be in substantial conformance with the
renderings and plans submitted at the
March 27th 2025 board of zoning and
planning meeting unless otherwise
modified in collaboration with ARB and
staff
okay I think that's okay okay from your
perspective okay thank you very
much members of the board any
alterations to that reading if not I
would entertain a motion to approve the
findings of fact and conclusions of the
law
so moved marsh thank you Mr marsh
is there a second second Rosenthal thank
you Mr
rosenthal please call the role
ma'am mr schik yes mr king yes mr leine
yes mr echeliner yes mr mr rosenthal yes
mr marsh yes and Chairman Beall I vote
yes also the certificate of
appropriateness is hereby granted thank
you very much nice work and nice project
and we appreciate your cooperation and
all the
tweaks as well all right the next case
involves a similar set of witnesses but
it's application
BZAP-24-50
involving 420 North Cassidy the
applicant is Bill Downing again and the
owner is the Community
Builders
um Mr glangler give us a little
background on this if you would and and
I know probably you have some
additional thoughts there as well yeah
so this one followed the same track as
the last one with the exception that um
this one sort of received a design
review a positive design review um
earlier on than the last one uh in at
the March meeting the architectural
review board uh voted for a positive
recommendation uh for this application
um again there were some small design
details uh they wanted um the applicant
to work with uh Karen Boer um on the
application and then again there were
about four or five conditions at the
Tree and Public Garden Commission
regarding plant selection and the site
be irrigated um and a couple other
things but they passed the Tree and
Public Garden Commission yesterday okay
that's all that I have jason did you
have anything jason anything else to add
on just the uh same issue about
clarifying the lighting to make sure it
meets code other than that no there's
nothing else okay Erin I just wanted to
thank the applicant and to um point out
this slide to all of you to see that um
the the big issue that we asked them to
investigate at the last meeting was ra
one board member actually a couple board
members were concerned about the
appearance of rockcast base if it's not
installed right over a long period of
time asked them to look at alternatives
so they did a utility brick base um
exercise and at the end of the day the
architecture review board preferred that
they stay with the rockcast base but
they did go through that exercise and I
thank you guys for doing that um so
that's the only difference you'll see
from when you saw it last I'm pretty
sure
all
right applicants anything you'd like to
add to the
presentation okay anybody in the
audience for or against this application
please i see no indication of such
members of the board do you have any
questions comments issues
here's the lighting plan that was just
for this one as well so you can see the
Okay all
right any additional thoughts or
questions members of the
board if not Matt will you give us
findings of fact and conclusions of law
on this matter please thank you yes
chairman the findings of fact and
conclusions of law for application
BZAP24-50 for property located at 420
North Cassidy the board of zoning and
planning accepts the recommendation of
the architecture review board to grant a
certificate of appropriateness for beex
code section 1220.02 2 Q and U to
demolish the existing structure and
build a new multif family mixeduse
building in a mixeduse commercial
district with the following conditions
that the site modifications design and
materials will be in substantial
conformance with the renderings and
plans submitted at the March 27th 2025
board of zoning and planning meeting
unless otherwise modified in
collaboration with the ARB and staff
okay
applicants in accord with those
conditions very good thank you very
much members of the board I'll entertain
a motion to approve the findings of fact
and conclusions of law so move shik
thank you Mr schik second echeliner
thank you Mr asheler please call the
role mr marsh yes
mr king yes mr echelurner yes mr
rosenthal yes
mr schik yes mr levine yes chairman Beh
I vote yes as well the certificate of
appropriateness is granted thank you for
all your work on these projects we're
moving
along thank
you all right the next area is new
business and the first case under new
business
is certainly
Yeah it does
too oh what's Yeah uh I asked him for a
go that was all they could
do uh the next case
is application BZAP
25-7 involving 2463 East Main Street the
applicant is Cara Berg and the owner is
2463 East Main Holdings LLC
the applicant is seeking a certificate
of appropriateness as well here for
Beexley city code section
1220.07 to remove failed brick
lentil at the storefront openings
replace the storefront below and masonry
below and paint the entire front got it
as well as make additional miscellaneous
repairs and updates to the rear of the
building such as reccloud awnings paint
replace lights etc
is that the applicant here on this case
please please come forward if you would
if you don't mind raise your right hand
and be sworn your name is Cara Berg cara
do you swear or affirm that testimony
you give the board this evening be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth thank you very much mr
clingler do you have some background for
us here i do thank you Chairman as um
we've had quite a few which is a good
thing along Main Street um as the board
knows uh perex code section 1220.07
um that you all are the um approving
board for anything um changing
appearance on Main Street in our Main
Street district um this is the former
Dean Wentz uh building adjacent to Cafe
Istanbul wardrobe Therapy as the new
tenant it's owned and um operated by a
Beexley resident um they have a building
permit for the interior renovation but
upon doing that renovation they
discovered stuff needed to be done to
the out more than what they thought
needed to be done to the outside so
that's why they're here tonight they've
also um they're going to update their
exterior sign i um sent that to you and
it's right there so we're uh essentially
killing two birds with one stone tonight
um if you pass this they will be able to
modify the outside as well as they don't
have to come back to you for a sign
approval um ARB passed this project on
the consent agenda and staff supports
the project
okay very good karen any thoughts from
the sorry unanimously approved by
consent at the architecture view board
without any conditions the board liked
it as submitted okay that's helpful
do you have anything you'd like to add
to what you're doing and what you found
and why we're here to make
some okay some changes how's that yeah
um some context is that we found
substantial water damage um in the wall
the front wall was rebuilt um at some
point in the last 20 years um during the
previous ownership and the brick had
been failing so um there was water
damage to both the wall and the
storefront um so it was not salvageable
um and regardless of the wall itself
failing um there's also about three
different types of brick used when it
was rebuilt at some point before it
started failing um which was a pretty
noticeable uh difference up close so we
were able to find a brick that more
closely matched the original um so it
will look a little more cohesive in the
rebuild
okay thank you very much is there
anybody in the audience that is for or
against this application
please i see no indication of such
members of the board do you have any
questions or
comments about this
application all
right Mr klinger how about some findings
of fact conclusions of law in this
matter yes sir the findings of fact and
conclusions of law for application
BZAP25-7 for the property located at
2463 East Main Street the board of
zoning and planning accepts the
recommendation of the architectural
review board to grant a certificate of
appropriateness periode section 1220.07
7 to remove failed brick lentil at
storefront openings replace storefront
below and masonry above and paint entire
paint the entire front as well as make
additional repairs and updates at the
rear of the building and install a new
sign
okay are you okay with that rendition of
the findings of fact thank you
any questions from members of the board
about the iteration of the findings of
fact if not I would entertain a motion
to approve the findings of fact
conclusions of law please
so moved thank you Mr king second second
levine second Mr levine
let's call the role mr marsh yes mr
esteler yes mr schik yes mr levine yes
mr mr king yes chairman Beh i vote yes
also so the certificate appropriateness
is granted nice project we welcome them
to Beexley
thanks Cara
the next
matter under new business is B case BZAP
2852-8 excuse me 49 South Park View the
applicant is Darren Ramler and the owner
is Anna Comp the applicant is seeking a
variance to Beexley City Code section
1262.02B and 1262.01
01e to allow a front yard parking
space would the applicant please come
forward sir your name
there we go
it's got to be green just press it down
it'll come out green and you can let it
go
there you go your name is Steve Maravic
i'm the landscape architect for the
project okay
steve not related to Pete i am actually
are you really that's that's my dad's
second cousin really i got a little son
in Upper Arlington is starting to trying
to get the name back in the in the
circulation he's only in uh first grade
but he's he really likes the basketball
so Oh that's funny do you swear or
affirm that the testimony you're about
to give us this evening will be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes sir thank you all right uh
this case
uh Matt tell us about the staff's
position on this matter if you would yep
so just a um zoning code analysis
1264.04B
no spaces aisles or any portion of a
driveway that does not access a rear
yard parking space or garage shall be
located in the front yard in an R1
through R12 or OS district
1262.01e says "An access drive shall not
exceed the normal width necessary to
allow for a convenient movement of
traffic and shall not be used for
temporary or permanent parking um access
drive shall not be less than 8 feet and
no larger than 12 and a half feet in
width and shall not occupy more than 25%
of the front yard applic the applicant
is renovating the exterior front
landscaping and driveway to the property
uh they would like to widen their
driveway to accommodate a front yard
parking spot so that other cars can
access the rear yard karen if you scroll
up a little bit right so the parking
space is right here essentially so I'll
do both screens and if you don't mind
I'd like to It's actually a exaggerated
entrance I would call it i mean the the
reason why it's there is because like I
needed to go up those so those are steps
that go to a um about um like two foot
higher elevation so show us show us
where you're pointing here because
you're going too fast for me right here
sorry right here but right there there
those those two uh the lines right there
are retaining walls and then there's a
uh 90 degree steps that go up on both
sides of the house so there's one on the
right side and it's flanked on the left
side as well so um to get up to the um
front porch mhm so what so the thing of
it was is I have the driveway to the
right and then I need a needed some
pavement to uh to the bottom of that
page you know um to the east and then
which would be right where your pointer
is actually so like I was going to put a
piece of paving there or blue stone
there that would have been about you
know 8 feet by eight you know 8 ft by 6
feet so by that time you know I had so
much paving there to have a nice
pedestrian entrance like if I just put a
little bit more gravel there and just
made it all gravel it just seemed like
it made more sense from a visual
standpoint and I was like only extending
it just a little bit more so it wasn't
purposeful to like make the parking
space but originally they had um talked
to me to make a they wanted to do a
turnaround drive originally and that
obviously wasn't and I actually talked
to uh Karen about that or called her and
she she explained that I couldn't do
that so that was the reasoning behind
what we were doing like I I do have some
some large boxwood uh blight resistant
ones um that are going to be um rather
tall i like to keep them around four or
five feet eventually and then there's
also a tree there um to block that area
which is also going to be a multi- stem
tree um which is a um uh paper bark
maple um so I'm hoping to that that
would also you know make it so that it
would be not a visually impacted
um parking area the other thing to
mention is that on the right side the
neighboring property has a private hedge
that goes all the way on the right hand
side too so it really is enclosed and
like not seen from the road you know I
was really trying to hide it but you
know I the the thing of it was is like
the paving kind of like took me to that
to to just put that that spot in there
and like the one thing to mention as
well is that the house is like there's
very small part like way to go like to
the back garage so like if if someone
was coming in it would be a nice way to
put put um to to just like let the other
person come out of the garage I will
mention and then the other thing is they
were kind of thinking of like they could
put a beastro table or something out
there and you know like if they had like
a party and they could welcome people if
they're um you know like as a like kind
of an entrance kind of thing so I mean
obviously I'm not um abiding by your by
the the zoning laws and that that does
um irk me is probably as much as it irks
you so uh um I apologize for the mistake
but it did seem like a reasonable um
request just because I'm already would
to have um a a paving area like below
those steps obviously so it just seemed
like an extension of that and then the
one thing also I wanted to mention it is
a you know uh it's going to be gravel um
like the gold finds with granite dust so
it is permeable and um I think it's you
know good for obviously your storm
sewers and such so do we have any sort
of frontal photographs here that we
could look at because I'm going have a
little
trouble so that that you can see in that
uh um to the right there see how you
have to go up the steps there so I'm
actually cutting that um making those
steps brand new limestone beautiful
steps um that are going to be kind of
cornering um that area so like where
that that shrub is basically is where
that parking area will be so the the the
the steps aren't really moving if you
can imagine those steps just taking a 90
degree angle to the left we are going to
keep that historic uh hedge in the front
there um and that's kind of the reason
for the steps and everything like that
is because we really do want to um make
the make the front yard look a little
bit more grand and so we're really
trying to focus the eye to the to the
lawn um and that hedge that they have up
there at the top of the um at the top of
their property just to make it look a
little bit more grand and then um one
thing that we're doing too is we're
putting cobbles um from the right away
to the uh to the sidewalk as well in
that driveway um so that's also and
there'll be a limestone edging that's
going to contain the um is going to
contain all the gravel so we don't have
a mess and uh and everything like that
so So the driveway does go back to a
garage the one we were just looking at
right yes sir but what we're trying to
do here is is I'm a little bit lost on
it because I'm looking at both sides
here i apologize but it's basically
we're just the pictures just depicted
the right side of the of this plan um
and there is a little bit of a lawn like
adjacent to the to the drive and then
there's then there's the shrubbery to
kind of hide everything so it's left of
this picture i'm looking at the top
picture we're going to go
left here yes right there yep and we're
just bringing that grade down to be
flush with the with the existing asphalt
we're taking out the asphalt and they
are going to put uh concrete in the back
um from the house basically um to the
garage the garage
okay yeah so chairman the the code it
says no spaces this is a space aisles or
any portion of driveway so that
driveway does lead to rear yard parking
the issue is the space does not the
space leads to the house right it does
not lead to rear yard parking which
essentially the code is is prohibiting
front yard parking
i mean I was going to ask so there's a
grade obviously
issue so we imagine the driveway gets
widened how do you resolve the retaining
well it it believe it or not that's just
a bunch of mulch and jive so we are
going to excavate all that out to the to
to those shrubs basically and then
there's going to be a retaining wall um
to right adjacent to those shrubs to the
left like where basically where that uh
there's a big overgrown arborite there
there's going to be a uh um Ottawa buff
um natural stone wall with a limestone
cap on top of it um real pretty looking
um with and those are going to be
limestone steps as well that are um uh
full like six by you know they're
they're just they're the big
um 18 by six by 4 foot and then we'll
cut them into place um on top of that
that that's what those steps are made
out of so the limestone is going to look
really nice with that so that's what
that that uh so you can see that that
that to the left of the steps that that
hedge on the top there and then there's
going to be a little bit of a grade down
and there's going to be um some other
shrubs to look at yep right there and
then there's
grass right below that and then the lawn
so if the other thing to mention is that
I'm trying to symmetrically like align
the house so on the left the shrubs are
trying to match the shrubs on the right
i don't know if that has anything to do
with your with I mean I don't have any
particular questions or problems with
the aesthetics of what you're doing it's
just doesn't I mean the question is if
we let one person have a space in the
front of their house on a street like
this then what if everybody down the
street wants us to do that we have to
let every single person down the street
do it i I don't know you know it's it's
problematic somebody else made a law not
us we don't make laws that says you
can't park in the front of a house right
and so now we're here to say okay if
there's some unbelievable reason that we
need to not unbelievable is not the
right word to use
but I'm I'm thinking I'm lawyering now
instead of being a a board member but if
there's if there's not a reason that's
that's upheld or or supported by the
statute that allows us to deviate from
those rules then we're not really
supposed to deviate from them now we are
here deviating every month of course
because we think that they comply with
those regulations and I think that's
what the board members need to do
tonight is look at these at
these conditions that we need to
consider none of which are are
conclusive conditions but all of which
need to take we need to take
consideration in a in a whole and make a
decision and then we set precedents when
we make decisions that we have to live
with on subsequent cases in subsequent
months so other than that diet tribe uh
this I should ask if there's anybody in
the audience that is for or against this
case too to give somebody a chance
that's here for or against this matter
but I don't see any indication of such
so with that in mind I I have asked all
the questions but but I'd certainly like
to open it up to questions from other
boards is the intent to use that for
like overnight parking no no no not at
all it's just to have extra room to make
the entrance right so like that's about
22 feet down like from the top of that
step um so what what I'm saying is like
I probably would have had a pad there or
something some type of of of paving or
driveway so that I could go up those
steps it was basically so you don't go
right up and then take a left and then
go go up the steps right so it was more
of like to so that their front door was
more accessible and and people had that
entry to go up to the front yard that
and that that led us to the to the 90°
steps which then led me to to believe
that you know I'm at least going to have
at least five foot or six six feet here
beyond the steps so I mean what's
another little bit that's how that's how
I figured it so it wasn't necessarily a
parking space it's more of an extended
walk I would say or an exaggerated walk
what's the distance that the code
allows for the pad
uh I think we're calling that a space
but is there a measurement yeah parking
space is 18 by 9 so could it be 9 ft or
could it be 17 feet so um that is the uh
that's what that is the 1262.01E 1e
where it says an access drive shall not
exceed the normal width necessary to
allow for convenient movement of traffic
so essentially no larger than 12 and a
half ft wide when you're going
I think we're talking about the length
so So it's essentially I think they're
eight Karen if you could pull up my
staff report i I I scaled it and
provided you so I think it's like
94 right there 94 at the corner 94 and a
halfish uhhuh so essentially they could
go over another two and a half
feetish and be in compliance with the
width of the driveway per the code so I
mean I guess the other thing is you
could give them a variance for a wider
driveway uhhuh which would how wide how
wide is it 19 94 no but the to the total
width is 19 oh is that would be 184 yeah
so you give them a variance for an 18
foot wide driveway
but but doesn't didn't someone say that
a driveway has to lead directly to Yeah
the back of the house but it does it
does but not that part not that part
yeah the extra part would you'd be
granting a variance for part of it does
we staff sees that as a parking area
it's a 12 by9 parking area to me this is
another thing we should add to Mr
klinger's list of Thanks Mr things to
discuss well no because I mean we we get
these requests all the time and for
parking in the front in the front or a
wide you know a lot of wider
driveways and you know it's one of those
things where it comes up and it would
seem like we should have a more
uniform policy not we but the city of
Beexley the city of Beexley yeah the
people who make the laws for the city of
Beexley those people yeah
well let me ask you this along those
lines i
mean what if you had a a one foot grassy
space between what we're calling there
the yellow parking area and the driveway
then you would just have you would
accomplish all your goals it wouldn't be
a parking area and you'd have the same
ability to walk and get up those stairs
that you were mentioning it wouldn't be
a hard laugh and all the things you were
mentioning and you would also have the
aesthetic value you've done a very
beautiful job here from an from a
landscape architect's perspective i
think it's lovely uh it's just a matter
of almost a matter of what are we
calling this why are we calling this a
parking area i never see I'll tell you
one thing that happened is that um I
didn't actually apply for this permit
like the Ryan Landscape did he's
actually the contractor for the company
okay for the project so um I would have
never called it that and I you know like
I I think it's an extended or
exaggerated um walk i mean that's that's
how I I I envisioned it in the beginning
and then it's just like why wouldn't you
just make it a little bit bigger because
I have to put paving there in front of
that walk regardless so I that's that's
the way I was looking at it from my
perspective um and I wasn't necessarily
trying to make it a parking space i
would like to make it not look like a
parking space if it does now um but it
just seems like having those like a
squared off look to it would look the
best like with the with the rest of the
way we were kind of uh thinking of the
rest of the landscape so that's what led
me to the But I I mean I would I would I
would appreciate it if you would like
allow me to make it like you know 9 ft
like you said or or or I mean 18 feet
instead or if I could bring that up
there more like to to some space that
would you you would feel comfortable
with um I'd love to be able to to like
you know actually use the space to just
in case someone did need to come through
there you know it'd be nice that you
have that dual function and the function
of like if I'm having a party like this
is kind of a party space kind of area
too makes perfect sense i mean what I
totally get what you're saying i I don't
think you're saying anything that's not
sensible it's
sensible you know yeah i mean so the
reason that like I we didn't we weren't
trying to call it a parker space i mean
I know but let's face it it's going to
be used as a parking space it's just too
easy it's too easy park there go in the
front door you're in house right you
have to go back to the garage you know
they're a small fan you know small
family i don't think you know but I
think it's more of like if the UPS guy
comes or whatever they can they don't
have to go all the way back there's no
way to like I get it they built that
driveway in
1929 you know and it's about Could could
I ask Karen to put the red line back uh
roughly where you drew that where we
discussed it
have you discussed with your client um
reducing the area roughly to the area to
the yellow area north of the red line
um it would seem that we would avoid the
issue that I think appears to be making
a couple of us uncomfortable and that is
having expanded parking in the front
yard and it would also reach your goal
of being able to have that step off
right i mean I think that they really
want to be able to put a car there if
they had to you know there we go that's
it
yeah the former
but I I but to keep that in in the same
breath I would be able to you know I do
want to be able to have something there
you know like if I'm if you're not going
to let me have what I'm asking like I
have to make some type of compromise to
be able to walk up that step okay so let
me tell you where you are procedurally
okay so there's seven people here you
need four votes to achieve your
application your your client's
application in this case so you can have
a vote anytime you want of course if you
don't get it then you're gone it's done
you'll have to start from scratch if you
do get it then you walk out the door and
you do exactly what you got drawn up
here right there's a third alternative
and that would be that you would uh
table the matter for this month go back
to your client discuss some of the
things that we were talking about
tonight some of the alternatives and
maybe come up with some innovative idea
that will get past even maybe the staff
but certainly that you could present to
us next month and and take a chance at a
vote then right i'm just trying to give
you all of your alternatives here as I
see them have I missed any alternatives
uh Karen or Matt
no I think um and I don't know how the
vote's going to turn out by the way
because I have no idea how there and I
guess my my question would be like I
mean so the staff is is somewhat against
the I shouldn't even ask that right well
they're they're kind of stuck in the in
a position of here's what the statute
says right and to be honest with you I
misread it so I I I didn't I I thought
that I could do that like Yeah so and
and so it is like you know I don't know
so yeah it was it was my fault and and I
you know it's definitely a lot less than
a turnaround driveway that they wanted
right um so I'm just trying to do the
best I can for We understand that and
we're trying to do the best we can to
help your client get to where they are
trying to go and achieve as many of
their goals as they can maybe maybe
you'll get four votes i don't know but
you have to decide it's kind of gambling
you know you have to decide what you
want but I mean I could resubmit like
the next like whatever or you just table
it and then make some alterations
between now and next month and then come
back to us and see if you've got some
different idea that you might have a
chance of getting some additional
votes that's an alternative and since
there's nobody here on this case if
you'd like to sit down and think about
that for a few minutes while you're not
under the pressure here of me yapping at
you and we can hear another case and
then you can decide what you'd like to
do if that's okay with the He can call
his client of course during that time
right i'm sorry he can call his client
sure okay okay yeah I will do that will
you do that very much yeah I appreciate
the board okay with just recessing this
case for a few minutes chairman if I
could add one thing if the I just want
to add one thing if the board does if
the board decides to grant the variance
staff recommends the applicant fill out
a landscape application and go in front
of tree and public garden commission oh
sure yeah yeah yeah we're we're going to
try to keep that in mind on every case
okay so we'll we'll recess this to see
what the trees were that we're going to
put in or Yeah so if if if the board
decides to vote in favor of the variance
um we would recommend that the tree and
public garden commission is a separate
board that evaluates the landscape and
the screening and and all of the things
that are going on okay with the project
all right so we'll recess this matter
for 15 minutes or whatever it is thank
you
Mr chairman for the next item I'm going
to have to abstain okay thank you the uh
next case invol is application number
BZAP25-9 uh the applicant is Alexa Meera
the owner is also Alexa the applicant is
seeking a special permit periode section
1264.02 to allow a temporary mailbox to
be installed near the driveway and
sidewalk due to constructions being done
on the
house is the applicant here please come
forward if you don't mind thanks for
patiently waiting for this rather small
matter will you raise your right hand
your name please alexa alexa do you
swear or affirm that the testimony you
give the board this evening will be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth thank you very much matt this
is a fairly simple request can you give
us a quick staff assessment yeah sure so
uh the applicant has gone through ARB
and um is in the process of applying for
a building permit um during construction
on the house they're unable to um I
believe unable to sort of have their
their dog in the driveway right or no
fence across the driveway so Miss Meera
uh Dr mera excuse me
um requested to put a mailbox near the
sidewalk for the mail carrier and uh our
code this would be a special permit for
our code so there is no is what I've
heard oh is that right it's a it's a
it's a it's a gray area but it would be
a special permit a lot of gray areas yes
temporary mailbox during construction
okay um there are no postal service
issues here are there i doubt it but you
never know but all
right have we adequately outlined your
request is there anybody in the audience
that is for or against this matter
please do any of the board members have
any questions or comments regarding this
issue
if not we have findings of fact
conclusions of
law the findings of facts and conclusion
of law for application
BCAP25-9 for property located at
2357 Beexley Park uh based upon the
testimony presented the board finds it
appropriate to grant a special permit
perexi code section 1264.02 2 to allow a
temporary mailbox to be installed near
the driveway and sidewalk due to
construction on the house
does that seem to be accurate rendition
yes is there any um Well I'll just ask
I'll entertain a a motion to approve the
findings of fact conclusions of law
please so move Marsh thank you Mr marsh
is there a second second Ashel Brener
thank you Mr ashel Brener real quick
before we just not because of this case
but just conceptually the type of
approval it's in theory if this is there
in 10
years what does what does the city have
is it is there a time associated with
this yeah it would be upon the
completion of construction that's why we
put a temporary that's why I put the
temporary word in there and well yeah
and and that's a great point I didn't
mention it the reason it is before you
is so that I can accurately say that
Mirror Residence is in compliance with
our city loss in case somebody else
would like to do this
okay all right
sorry uh please call the role yes sir uh
Mr levine yes mr king yes
mr rosenthal I vote yes mr asherman yes
mr marsh yes chairman Behaul I vote yes
also the permit is granted and thank you
for your patience of course yeah this is
I'm sure I'll be back I guess for
whatever
no that's just with me you're good no
more boards you're good
i talked to a rheatologist today but not
about medical issues thank you
it is i I I prefer it that way yes I
prefer to keep it that way too see you
thank
you sippy cup is cup yeah my sippy cup
fell over you know you need pretty nice
so you know starfish
i got it going
here i have to tell Jeppe he needs to
get some adult to-go cups you
know all right the next case is a tabled
application and it's application BZAP
24-28 so it's from last year involving
490 to 492 North Cassidy the applicant
is Jawad Khan the owner is Beexley Mart
the applicant is seeking a special
permit and variance from Beexley City
Code
1254.17 to allow a food trailer
accessory use structure to be a
permanently installed in the sideyard of
490 North
Cassidy with those applicants I assume
that's you gentlemen come on up please
whoever's going to talk who's the
spokesperson going to be you come on up
let me get your name please jawad Khan
do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you or give this evening be
the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes I do all right are you
going to testify too sir yes uh he's not
going to talk but he's my uh Oh he can
he can come you can stand right next to
you but if he's going to testify he
needs to be sworn in that's
all do you your name sir my name is
Heather Sha
do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you give the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth okay
thank
you all
right i've seen this case before you
have sir okay let give us some
background and let us know what the
staff's position on this is i think
actually most of this board was here
when we heard the first case the first
time uh this application has been tabled
for several months at the previous
meeting the board reviewed the items of
condition as written up by our city
planner uh Jason Sudi um the applicant
agreed that they will install and
maintain in good operating order the
electric water gas hookups as needed for
food truck operation no external
generators or other devices that create
noise or engine emissions are permitted
uh only they agreed that only one food
truck is allowed on the premises at any
given time unless additional temporary
permitting is received from the city
um and then the next couple items was
where um we we had some the board had
some pause and then so it was tabled and
and they've come up with some solutions
the applicant will provide screening
along Cassidy and Bellwood frontages in
accordance with the MUD design standards
um and then the dumpster at the rear of
the property adjacent to the proposed
food truck location be screened in
accordance with the mixeduse district uh
design standards
um so the applicant has provided a
sketch of what they plan to install for
screening they will provide fencing
around the dumpster um and put the
dumpster in the rear um the applicant
also will pro um has um submitted uh
screening in the way of emerald green
arborvite uh for the streetscape
unfortunately um I didn't have time to
get back to the applicant on this but
where it's a tough situation because the
green space that abuts the sidewalk on
Cassidy um is a tree line and it's right
of way it's city right ofway and this
and um commercial owners and and
residents are not allowed to plant there
i I I've sort of made some diagrams
that'll make it easier for you all to
see it's on the screen here so basically
the hashed line is all city
rightway up to the other side of the
sidewalk um they can't plant in the city
rightway without approval from the tree
and public garden commission and city c
um our council um and and staff in the
past we have not supported planting um
plantings in the city right away um that
are larger than small shrubs or flowers
something that can be easily removed no
no trees
um that uh were in support of the
screening of the dumpster and the rear
moving the dumpster to the rear of the
property and the screening um that is
all I have to provide mr jason do you
have anything else uh I mean I think the
the big picture item is that um you know
the the standards in place in order to
screen the parking in basically from the
site internal to the site so you know a
kind of a a more aggressive and
successful version of that would be
along the CVS where there's a you know a
substantial brick wall uh in addition to
landscaping and the reason we our code
allows for just landscaping is because
we know that's a pretty expensive thing
to do to build a large wall um so you
can use fencing you can use landscaping
the difficulty though is that you know
as you know you've seen in many other
review applications that takes place
behind the property line not in front of
the property line for a variety of
reasons you know some practical on the
fact that we may have to do work in that
property at some point um but also the
real intent of this is that any surface
parking that is adjacent to public
rights away we want a um you know a
solution that starts to diminish that
impact now this is a building that's
clearly not in conformance with this
typical development approach that we
would have if it was being built new so
it's a bit of a retrofit issue issue so
it's up to you as a board to figure out
like how does that how do you interpret
that um screening with regard to you
know the streetscape that's already in
existence which is really just a tree
lawn and and some street trees um versus
having kind of that full full treatment
that we would typically expect if there
was a new application coming
in so let me ask you from a technical
perspective they're asking for a special
permit for this
use at this location but also a variance
so the variance is what uh for an
accessory um because it's a permanent
food truck it's we consider that an
accessory structure no different than a
shed or a garage and uh code does not
allow uh accessory structures to be in
the sideyard in a commercial district
that's the variance okay we mentioned
before about moving the food truck to
the rear of the property which is
allowed um there are building not zoning
well zoning too but a building code
issue with you got to maintain I believe
it's 10 feet off of the uh rear of the
building for you know fire code reasons
as well as there's a zoning I believe
it's three feet off of um public
rightway rightway and the alley there is
is a city rightway yeah yeah correct
okay is is isn't there also a question
about the amount of space that the food
truck would need to be from the building
itself yeah 10 feet is what I that's
what I mentioned yeah and I'm just
trying to look at what's there is there
Yeah i don't think it was feasible i
mean we haven't gone out i don't think
they've gone outside we I don't think
we've studied to see Did you guys see if
it could fit with like a food truck is
what seven feet wide i eight 8t wide
yeah there's enough space you know
between the truck and the property in
the and if we put if you put it in the
back of the building is what we're
talking about you'd have to you'd have
to stop you'd have to maintain 10 feet
away from the building that's where your
food truck could go and then three feet
from the rightway
it would be 100% concealed it would be
the back
yeah anything is going to work so we'll
do that so we have spent money and you
know so
anything possible we'll do it you know
so if you guys to be clear the the
issues about proximity to the building
and the just going back to the
conversation about the
rear it's a and now it's all coming back
to me there's a little bit of a thing
where it's like is it a structure or a
truck it's a because in if it's a
structure are you going to inspect the
foundations and is it going to meet
model energy you know it's if they were
building a you know it's like it's not
meeting the building code it meets and I
if the right so it's a weird it is weird
we you know we've we've said from the
beginning if it's not permanent if it's
moved off site every day you know comes
to and fro that's fine we we could grant
a permit they would never be here but
because they're saying it's a permanent
food truck it will stay on the site all
the time we view it as an accessory
structure to the property
and what determines where these let's
that scenario how do you determine what
what's an acceptable place for this
permit what would the criteria mean
anywhere in Bexley you could have a food
permit
well so there's there's in a residential
district I mean there's it would have to
be on public you know unless unless a
private owner granted permission for a
food truck to be on their residence and
they and the city approved it you could
have it on a private um driveway people
do that for parties and things like that
um this is more of a in the commercial
district you could have it in the rear
of the property as a as a permanent food
truck and in the in the and the lion
actually they came before you all and
you granted them a special permit um
because but it was in the rear of the
property and they had to provide
screening from the neighbors um there
were there were a lot of hoops that had
to but that was 100% in the rear um the
side yard uh that is the side yard right
there all the way to the alley um so
that's why and and our code says that
you cannot put accessory structures in
sideyards in a commercial district so
let me ask you this front or front yards
front so you you're saying if they
weren't in a situation where they were
in a accessory structure and they were
going to come and go every day you could
grant that permit the staff without our
involvement correct are you telling me
that that they that anybody can come
here to Beexley and say we want to put
put a food truck right next to city hall
over here and you can say yes without
going to any boards i mean they have to
meet the criteria for a special permit
pardon me they'd have to meet the
criteria for a special permit so what
we're saying is we could because of this
we think we could grant them a special
permit for this location
we you guys without us staff staff right
so staff can grant special permits
correct
so why do we have to grant certain
special permits then well that's depends
on how the code works and in this
particular case because this is
permanent then it becomes an accessory
structure which triggers a whole bunch
of stuff jason what are criteria um hold
on let me dig it out of the the
um there is a section that's retail sale
of food items for mobile non-permanent
food carts um permit issued by the city
let me see does not become Hold on i
have to I'll have to dig it back out
okay are you asking where the criteria
is for a special permit are you asking
where the criteria is
no I'm asking what are the criteria for
determining appropriate location for a
food truck
gotcha let me find where that section is
and time while you're looking that up
let me ask the applicants is there
anything you want to add that well I'm
sure we're going to have some questions
for you but is there anything you would
like to add i mean would move it every
day but the thing is it's a not food
truck it's a food trailer you know so we
got to hook it unhook it and there is a
stuck in it if we move if you go on the
bump so everything's going to mess up so
it's going to be really hard for us even
like if you guys said like it's not
going to work on the rear if you guys
show us anywhere in the parking lot we
can move it there and park it you know
if that going to work
okay and I I think one of the the issues
that comes up and the reason why there's
this distinction is some because of some
of the things that we were discussing
earlier with regard to access fire
access to the building and all those
other things if it if it leaves every
day then I know it gets a little smooshy
but that means that we're under the
assumption that it can leave every day
so if there was some sort of emergency
issue or other thing that would arise it
could immediately leave whereas if it's
a quote unquote permanent structure it's
an accessory structure then it has to
follow all the other things because
essentially we're saying it's a building
and it has to meet all the criteria that
a building would have to meet because
it's always there that's the problem and
that's where I guess to me that's the
opportunity here from my perspective is
it canly it doesn't sound to me like
we're talking about anything that
prohibits it from being it's not like
they're saying we're going to put it up
on concrete blocks and plant pushes
around it and build a roof it's like but
you've seen in food truck parks and
stuff it's like this can be moved
they're just being honest and saying we
have no intention of moving it but
there's nothing inherently permanent
about it it's not anchored to the ground
it doesn't have to pass any sort of wind
load test it's not a building correct
it's has wheels it has a hitch it has
brake lights on it it It's street legal
presumably or could be street legal yeah
and I think that's where it gets smooshy
though because as it sits for a while
then when does it become no longer
temporary permanent two different things
building code does not apply zoning code
applies
but as far as what an definition of
accessory structure as we see it when
it's permanent it's secondary to the
building so if it's sitting right next
to the building permanently that's an
accessory structure as far as the zoning
code is concerned you're talking to the
building code which of course the
building code does not apply to this
other than food and fire code and that
kind of stuff for inspections but like
is a dumpster an accessory structure
well so does this thing i mean I I guess
I'm saying structure is the word I'm
getting at to me structure implies it's
a built it's a building or built thing
specific to the site it's a shed a
pergola a fence a brazed garden bed you
we've seen all an enclosed garden
extension is it's hardwired for the
utilities
say that again Rick i couldn't hear you
hardwired for utilities okay thank you i
I couldn't hear well we're requesting
we're asking that yeah we did that to
them right so well go going back to the
staff report and the landscaping it
sounds like we're saying that since
that's the city right away that we're
are we not asking for landscaping or
we're asking we're asking for
landscaping on their site as we
typically would so you know a good
example of this is a much smaller scale
is a cafe they have a small side parking
area and because it's visible from Main
Street we asked them to plant a small
row of of uh shrubs on their property in
front of that and so the problem is that
the city right away isn't really
intended to be that screening and for
practical reasons that we may have to
dig it up at any given moment we tend to
discourage anything that's very
substantial there got it got it thank
you so the real way to comply is they
dig up 8 ft of asphalt or some feet yeah
put the screening there and then the
rightway is the rightway correct yeah it
probably doesn't have to be 8 ft
probably 3 ft yeah
and then on the height of that screening
yeah we do have criteria for that and
I'll again I'll have to look at that
really quickly but it has to be you know
several feet in order to basically
theoretically screen the the parking lot
so 36 Yeah 36 inches per landscape i
believe it's 36 in and it's a 4ft fence
andor stone retain stone wall
i have sort of another angle here that
I'm saying to me about and that is just
the permit angle and you know I realize
we had some people a couple months ago
when they come said came to the meeting
say that they were thrilled with having
a food alternative that they could walk
up to and buy food in the area and D but
to me you know somebody that owns one of
the houses on the other side of the
alley there bought that house knowing
that there was a strip center there and
the strip center faces Cassidy and all
of a sudden we have this I don't know
what you want to call
it vehicle this this location that
people are going to be coming up to
buying food from walking away from
dumping rappers here and there i mean
what whatever you do when you're buying
food and I I don't think that the people
that owns owned those houses on the
other side of that alley bought that
those houses thinking there's going to
be a a sort of a
temporary halfbaked restaurant there
that's a carry out it's permanent i mean
partially permanent right temporarily
permanent right thank you so I got a
little problem with that just from a
standpoint of should we even have a food
truck at that location visav what the
people in the neighborhood were thinking
so that's my Well yeah i I would just
make a note that the only person showed
up was in favor of the of the schwarma
truck like three times yeah yeah so I
think one of the things that president
with the the lion with this very similar
scenario yeah and just from our
perspective again this is smashed this
is smooshy because we don't have these
clearly
delineated locationational criteria in
in the code what we do have is a set of
operational criteria uh and that's in
83204 so there's a lot of things they
have to do in order to operate these and
so from a staff perspective the way we
had been interpreting this since last
year is that if it's in a commercial
district that typically would have this
kind of activity then to make it
consistent we're interpreting it as
that's the kind of place where you could
probably have a permitted food truck on
your own property whereas if someone
came in and asked for it on say a public
site like next to city hall which you
know or if they asked for it in a public
park or on their front lawn our
interpretation would be that is not what
the intent of the zoning code if we read
the intent of that zoning paragraph says
so we wouldn't think that would be a
good place now they could appeal that
and come to you and they could go to
council and coun you or council could
tell us that we're wrong until that
happens we're going to interpret it as
commercial districts probably make sense
other districts probably don't and the
only issue here is not whether or not we
would issue that special permits because
they're triggering it by saying they're
going to be permanent and now the
problem is if we just say well let's
just pretend they're not going to be
permanent if they stay permanent and
that thing clearly becomes dilapidated
to the point where it can't move they
could be susceptible to us citing them
for this being in violation until such
time as they move it and then what does
it become a thing where then they move
it for a day and then it's okay and then
they move back and the cycle begins so
we're just trying to make this as
efficient a need as possible to
essentially say if we think that this is
a location that can be used for a food
truck what mitigating site factors could
we implement that would make it better
and one of those was to which they
actually already have to they can't use
generators that's already in our code
like they can't basically create a noise
or a nuisance prop situation so what can
we do to make it work the best visually
and physically so that it functions the
right way and if you don't think there
are any criteria that they've met then
that's okay too well I think the the
countering argument which you're making
is if you buy a house next to a
commercial strip center then you're not
really looking for too much privacy or
too much protection from commercial
enterprises i I just made both sides
both sides of the same argument right
that's what we get paid for now now the
one thing that is you know a a little
bit different here is that they are not
in conformance with the number of things
we normally require on a commercial
property like screening the dumpster and
all these things in the rear so that's
why we saw this as an opportunity to to
remedy some of those problems that you
really probably should expect to be
remedied if you lived right behind a
commercial area um and that's one of the
differences like especially along most
of Main Street and Livingston for that
matter there's typically a pretty
substantial fence that can separate you
on either you know one or the other side
of the alley and there's usually Yeah
and there's usually dumpster screening
and there's usually other things to
mitigate that factor and just because of
the evolution of Cassidy which you know
obviously we just approved an
application that's going to
substantially change that for a half of
one block we just have kind of this old
stuff that jams itself kind of right
into a residential neighborhood without
any of those protections so so so the
west edge of the lot is not striped for
parking i mean when I look at it as seen
from I'm looking south looking north
towards the vet hospital it looks to me
like you could easily cut 4 feet of
asphalt out and landscape that and not
uh adversely affect the function of the
parking lot at least as it's striped and
there's no stripes in the entire There's
only one row of stripes and then along
the building yeah that's the view I'm
looking at so nothing on the left is
striped for parking it looks to me like
you could carve out a band asphalt on
the left side of that image and put the
screening on the property instead of in
the city right away yeah that that's
accurate and they have enough parking
with what they have striped um on their
lot to meet code requirements
so I
mean well yeah the chairman's first
argument carried weight with me more
than the second i mean I'm in favor of
trying to find ways to put commercial
use in these spaces and so the idea of
trying to find a way to help make it
possible to do this on the south end of
the building is of interest more than
behind uh and I think these ancillary
improvements to the lot if we could they
could be achieved including that
screening along I also who who controls
the width of this curb cut is that the
city or is that them uh yeah i mean they
could narrow it if they wanted to for
sure that's like to me that's like a
really I mean it's hazardous and it's
unsightly and it's likely to cause you
know fender benders so to me it's like
some of those things to me start to feel
weightier than they did the last time we
talked about this to where I'm more
sympathetic to the idea
so tell me about the the width of the
curb cut i don't understand the Well I
just you know it's too wide it's wide
very wide yeah and I mean generally
that's a matter for the person who's
going to these gentlemen are going to be
paying rent to i assume the which is a
Beexley Mart Inc or whatever it's called
here i got to find it beexley Mart
doesn't say what it is it's probably an
LLC
so I guess I go back to the original
conditions that we talked about which
sounds like they're interested
in complying with um if I may a couple
things sure Matt thank you one uh you
asked for the definition of accessory
structure accessory use or structure
means a use or structure of the same lot
with and nature customarily incidental
and subordinate to the principal use or
structure parking structures or parking
lots are accessory structures or uses
except where they are the principal
structure or use or were there an um
integral part of the principal structure
use so it's that's how we look at that
this is you know it's a food mart
they're selling food out of it it's a
food truck it's that it's going to be
permanent it's an ex that the staff made
an accessory structure the other thing
is we didn't we didn't mention it
um but if you have issues with the
neighbors uh seeing it our commercial or
our fence code 1264.05 5 requires uh
commercial fences adjacent to
residential
districts so that's that's a just saying
yeah let me there's already a dumpster
back here i don't see it in any way
blocked off from the adjacent property
isn't that right that should be that's
that's part of the staff recommendations
defend the dumpster that's not their
dumpster is it that's the dumpster of
Dairy Mart or what whoever this is here
beexley Mart they are vex they they they
are Beexley Mart you you own Beexley
Mart no I don't my dad owns the business
i own the food truck you know so my dad
doesn't have to do nothing with the food
truck so it's under my name the the dad
was here the first time i'm going to pay
rent to your dad yeah to park the food
truck over there and your Does your dad
own the whole strip center
they have a permission letter that was
in the first time we went around uh Bob
Marshall yeah that he gave them
permission for this okay and he owns the
strip that contains the dairy mark or
food mark correct he actually doesn't
did he sell
who is it marshall Acquisition LLC yeah
so the letter is not from the owner of
the property right okay i think the
letter was signed Bob Marshall is he not
Marshall Equities LL well you know
that's technically not accurate yeah
gotcha yes llc's are their own entities
right so yeah so I know there's like a
lot of different factors just like to
make it clear as to what would what
would you're going to make this clear
well I just want to make one thing clear
nothing else clear that if if this was
actually going to be brought into
conformance with all the standards that
are there and remembering that we just
had to give a variance last month or two
months ago to 420 Cassidy area basically
regarding the fence requirement because
there is a fence requirement back there
so we just gave them a variance because
they are going to do a whole you know
they're they're putting landscaping and
the whole different thing so basically
who was this I didn't hear who that was
420 the the thing we just approved
earlier the the mixeduse building uh at
420 Cassidy two months ago we gave them
a variant so there is a technically this
if this was up to um standards with the
current footprint of the building there
would be a fence along the back and
there would be screening for the
dumpster which could be part of that
fencing and there would be along all of
the edges of this parking lot that face
public rightway which is everything down
the side street and everything down
Cassidy there would be a minimum of a
threefoot tren non-transparent um
evergreens slash whatever planting bed
or a 4ft fence and so they that that
brings it all the way up to code so I
just want to like give it up like the
perspective of what would be sort of the
ideal situation and so I guess one of
the things is you know we keep talking
about a planting bed
because that's typically less expensive
they can also do some kind of fence and
you know we do have standards for
decorative fencing that said we can
determine as a city and the ARB or you
what that decorative fence actually
means and so it could be a fence it
doesn't necessarily have to
be greenery it's the other options is I
guess what I'm saying and and we keep
running around the same circles I think
because the applicant is so far has not
proposed any of those things that would
actually do that screening
so I'm only one member i'm I'm in favor
of it i think a food truck next to a
convenience store is an appropriate use
i would be in favor of supporting this
if as long as they met with the city and
got final sign off on whatever
landscaping screening they came up with
i think that's the issue and that so far
we have only seen a this has been since
last August i know there's been one plan
that's been submitted most recently and
all that plan was was dropping a bunch
of arborite in the rightway so we have
low confidence that there is an actual
interest in doing that screening so you
are absolutely welcome to do that at the
same time I think it would be a higher
comfort level from the staff side if you
continued to hold off on giving any kind
of approvals until they present some
sort of thing that we at least think is
in the ballpark yeah and I'm I'm fine
with that as well and ask them to come
back with a landscape plan but I do
think we should give them some direction
on the food trailer and also some
restrictions some on a timeline if
they're going to ghost us for another
six seven months that's what's that they
were nonresponsive for many months there
according to staff if I recall correctly
from previous meetings so as long as
they're not there selling food they can
wait forever can't they so unless I miss
one month discussion one year yeah
that's right look like uh
it is not relevant to our code so what
color is it going to be yeah that's none
of that is in our code we just say
whatever uh our code does not speak to
it whatever screening you're talking
about is still not going to obscure it
completely that is up to you to
determine yes so I I I think that we are
able to put conditions that we want to
know what the color is you know i mean
but you're right
i will say that typically other city
codes do not deal with that kind of
thing i'm not saying whether we should
or not they typically don't um you know
a food truck's a food truck some are
bright green some are yellow some are
white i thought there was a picture of
hot pink could be hot there are hot pink
ones it was It was parked there for a
while it's silver
trucks are not there 247 correct right
buy it 100% 100% all I can tell you is
our code does not address those specific
issues it is at your discretion to
address any of those you would like
counterpoint we do not
um mandate any color palette for any
accessory structure so you could you
could paint your garage whatever color
you wanted
careful just saying anyway well but
we're free to add conditions to anything
we grant right i mean Jason that's for
sure isn't it absolutely yeah and that's
why they're here and that's why we
brought them in front of you is because
we're in this spot and any conditions
that you think are appropriate
we're let me make a suggestion to you
gentlemen it may be that Marshall
Properties LLC here needs to participate
with you in some sort of a plan with
what you're going to do with this
location so that we know how you're
going to do this which will make it
easier for us to vote now you can't do
that tonight obviously so you can always
have your vote tonight if you want
that's up to you but if you say to us
I'd like to
table or delay
this request so that we can go to the
landlord and we can go to your dad and
you can figure out some things and you
can come back to us with some you know
would be nice i think you'll get more
favorable approval or disapproval
whichever you're going to get but you're
going to get get more favorable
consideration if we can see what it
looks like and we can see what your
plans are for how you're going to
operate it and we can see whether
there's going to be you know a way for
uh rappers of all the food that you're
going to serve that aren't going to be
strewn in everybody's front yard around
there right you know let us know what
you're doing and then we can vote i
would suggest that you consider
delaying this hearing for a month or
even two months if it takes you but
something to get back to us with more
details about how you're going to put
landscaping around it how you how maybe
the owner Mr bob Marshall uh may be the
for all we know the manager of this LLC
that owns the property but he might not
be you know President Trump might be the
the manager of this LLC for all I know
so the point of the matter is that I
think you need to come back and you'll
have a better chance of getting a
successful vote in my opinion and my
opinion only i'm only one vote right do
you have a thought about that or a Yeah
I'll just go and talk to my brother you
know so Okay are you okay if we delay
this for a month you guys said like this
uh how many fish should be from the
sidewalk you said like the food truck
where we park is there any way if we
just move it to the parking spot or no
well instead of it's still See you got
to get that all discussed with the staff
because we can't really discuss that
here you know we're all seven different
people we We're not in charge so but I I
do does anybody here have a problem with
a a continuence of this matter or a
tableabling any board member have a
problem with that no am I getting Do you
want to Do you want to request a
tableabling or a a delay of this matter
okay i I would entertain a motion to
table this matter at the request of the
applicant or 30 days you need 30 days or
you need 60 days
30 days 30 days
staff are you okay with that
are we Are we tableabling it 30 days be
tableabling it to a certain date yeah 30
days april 24th meeting correct
technically quite 30 days not quite 30
days it would be Yeah but Okay we we
would request
um that new material be sent to the city
no later than uh 14 days from now 10 10
days 10 days from now you guys generally
I give it Thursday ahead of time so
let's say by April 14th by well today is
the uh 20 uh 7th so let's just say April
uh 10th what day of the week is that
would be two weeks ahead of the next
meeting so yeah okay good job that I
just that one out of the that's fine
that's fine so by April 10th two weeks
from today you need to come to the staff
with your new
information and your
plans and maybe Mr marshall and your dad
can help you come up with a plan for
what needs to happen and the staff will
be happy to talk to you and them about
all this and see if we can come up with
something that works or not thank you so
much okay uh is there a motion to table
this matter please so Shik Shik second
from Mr rosenthal uh all in favor of
tableling this matter say I i i all
opposed there's no opposition the matter
uh passes unanimously this matter is
tabled till the April 2025 meeting of
the board of zoning thank you for your
patience tonight all right okay thank
you all right let's reconvene i see we
have some additional
uh authorization
here
and Dr we haven't sworn you in so if you
don't mind we have to swear everybody in
this is a qua judicial event to believe
it or not uh do you your name please
name is Anna Camp anna Comp do you swear
or affirm that the testimony you give
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth thank
you very much we've already sworn uh
Steve in Maravic i do remember his last
name uh so you're you're you continue to
be under oath okay just for your
knowledge all right so we are here
discussing various alternatives and
whether we should go ahead and vote on
this this evening or whether we should
uh give you as we just did with the
prior case an opportunity to get an a
month or it's not quite a month as I was
pointed out it's 29 days or whatever uh
to uh reassess the situation and maybe
come up with a a more innovative uh
alternative that keeps you from possibly
getting some no votes here in this you
understand the situation yes absolutely
and I think Steve had already gone
through um the beautiful landscape plan
that he's put together it's beautiful
it's absolutely beautiful and in part of
that our driveway is in very um poor
shape and so we'd like to redo the
driveway something a little more
environmentally friendly and so he's
helping us with the gravel for our
purposes our family's purposes we do not
need um any additional parking anything
but our driveway is very very narrow um
and so the house sits right on the
driveway and the neighbors bushes are
right on the other side of the driveway
and so when we have guests come just to
have dinner for a couple of hours they
cannot get out of their car in our
driveway when the grandparents come for
a weekend we cannot park a grandparents
car and allow us to move back and forth
so that we're doing the driveway so we
would like to have our driveway extended
um just in that one area so that we have
an ability to pull a car into that let
people out park a car there for a
weekend but we are not putting anything
on cinder blocks and parking it for the
lifetime we are not using that as a
permanent parking spot it's more ease of
friends coming over um holiday guests
and that thing um when he came up with
this suggestion we actually thought it
was really appropriate because the house
right across the street from us has it
the house just to the north of us has it
we walk our dogs around the neighborhood
when we see very um uh we see many other
houses that also have it so we thought
it was very appropriate um go ahead that
was one thing that you guys have
mentioned that like if if neighbors if
you if you let us do it then the
neighbors would do it well you know as
soon as I called her the first thing she
said was "I'm looking at two houses."
Everybody you know looking at two houses
right across the street so if there is
precedent in the neighborhood then you
know I hopefully that would Well we have
circular drives too that are in front of
houses we we understand and mind you we
have these problems all the time every
month because we have to be careful
about precedent setting because we
didn't approve those drives that you're
looking at but somebody put them in i
mean these houses were built in 1930 or
whatever and the driveway is the width
of a 1930s driveway right i get it and
uh and the the landscape plan is
gorgeous it's gorgeous we're not here in
any way uh is around the extended area
so it will be it will be nicely hidden
or nicely um uh accented with the
landscape well so
um there are various alternatives
bandied about by members of the board uh
including why don't we you you could
expand you can already widen the
driveway to 12 ft it's already 9 ft 4 in
that gives you another
2T 8 in but if you want to go further
than that then some in some ways the
length of it is an issue that was raised
i'm just trying to summarize for you
here because I could see that you're a
quick study but nonetheless uh it was a
fairly long discussion that where we
went over with Steve many alternatives
that wouldn't require us to create a
precedent that we don't as I said
earlier we don't write these statutes
the city council does and then we have
to deal with it you know so uh but
nonetheless um the alternative was
should we would that be like helpful or
wouldn't that not help the situ like I
guess I don't understand like what the
process is of like if we changed it like
we'd have to start over
together if you table this case till
next a to the April meeting which is
April 24th he said then in the interim
in the next two weeks you would go to
the staff and you would say "Okay here's
some an alternative that we have thought
of that we would like to change how
we're doing this a little bit maybe
create some curves there or do something
where we have some extended driveway
area or maybe a portion of it is a
further than another portion of it
anyway something that you that we're
looking for you to get your needs and
goals achieved right and at the same
time give us something that we can vote
for uh in good conscience stays within
the realm of what our uh pro
prescriptions are here right so uh
that's all that I'm trying to help you
and and help the board get to that end
so we could do that we can vote tonight
too by the way and I I you know I told
Steve that earlier we can always vote
when you vote you're gambling a little
bit you need four votes to get to get a
passage and you might get four votes
tonight you might not i don't know i'm
only one vote even though I talk more
than everybody else does right so
so I don't know who's drawing that okay
yeah like since you drew that right
there like that's what I was trying to
explain earlier like how much more
gravel am I really giving up there like
if I make that like it's not that much
more gravel like how's that like now
it's now it's now it's not usable but it
but it works now like it works with the
code but it's not usable enough well it
works for the pedestrian aspect you
brought up but and design-wise but it
definitely doesn't allow a car to park
there but of course the car parking
there is the thing that requires the
variance so that's the I don't think
anyone has an what it does do though it
lets you access those stairs as you
mentioned was an important one of your
goals it also allows you to pull the car
up so that you can let people out of the
car at the front of the house and get
people in and out your grandparents can
come in and out and all that kind of
good stuff and uh it gives you a little
leeway that probably you could sneak
another car by there and get it to the
garage while somebody is there i mean I
don't know what the I'd have to have
measurements and know what a car's width
are and all those things that architects
know about that I don't know anything
about right but Oh chairman if I may yes
sir yep that would be in my mind uh
acceptable that that drawing right there
to an So so the two code issues are of
course 1264.04 no parking space in the
front yard parking spaces 18 by 9 or 17
and a half by eight and a half if you
have a compact car the other one is is
1262 it says an access drive shall not
exceed the normal width necessary to
allow for convenient movement of traffic
and shall not be used for temporary or
permanent parking again I don't see that
as you know you're going to park a car
there but I do agree you know that gives
the width to let somebody out so you
could pull up kind of at an angle and
let the doors out and then you'd have to
uh you know you could stay there or park
somewhere else but to me that would need
no variance at all in my eye and we
wouldn't even be here right and as much
as as enjoyable as this is for you I'm
sure probably we could do like you know
the grid the grass grid and then you
could still park there you know like you
on that if we wanted to but it just that
stuff always dries out and it's like not
it's real hard to keep the grass to like
Yeah like stay you know it's really it's
just a hard you know you only have like
that much soil so like that could be an
alternative too like that we could maybe
look at but it just not not going to
work for our use you know but all these
alternatives could be discussed in great
without all this pressure of having to
make a decision if you table it and I
don't know you know whether it's a
timing issue here or not it's not and
honestly I I would choose to table it
we're spending a lot of money to do this
certainly increase the aesthetics of our
um front and our certainly our driveway
which is in bad shape and I want to get
what is most useful for us so we'll
table it we'll bring pictures and
measurements so you see how narrow the
driveway is what the limitations are and
um different options so we'll table it
thank you i appreciate that i think it's
I think that's a very good idea and what
make it better for us as well speed of
variance but it doesn't get what we need
from a design standpoint if they said we
have a 12ft driveway 12 and a half they
could have 12 and 1/2t driveway and then
we and then we
want blue stone 3T 4T wide for
pedestrians to walk to our front door
immediately adjacent to that
is that a Is there anything in the code
that makes that problematic it doesn't
give you parking space but Yeah it
doesn't but I'm just But in terms of
trying to give some relief I mean the
house doesn't have a sidewalk i'm kind
of saying this as my sidewall it's not
the dry yeah yeah i will say I'm just
for the record I I I'm It's hard for me
to imagine making a parking space there
that I I would be comfortable voting for
whether even if it was all turf you know
with the the underllaying meshing and
stuff i I I just feel like unless the
code were different or there was some
really extenduating circumstances we
haven't talked about tonight the idea of
making it big enough to park a car and
get another car by I would have it's
hard to imagine what the the situation
you would explain next month would be
that would make me comfortable with that
aspect of it but all these other things
I'm super sympathetic to so that's what
your point is a second type of hardcape
where it's defined as a walkway and not
defined as the actually something that
would not require a variance probably
not potentially not yeah and not the
area i I think the the big thing is that
is the area of the space so if it's it
you know it's parking space if it's not
a parking space if it's 6 by 12 or if
it's something else and you know three
three you know if you went to 12 and 1/2
ft all the way down right and you move
those plants over you could go 12 and a
half feet all the way to the curb and
have a new approach and you had a
certainly a you gain two and a half feet
right there um and then widen it out at
the top i mean that that's perfectly
acceptable yeah in my study of the
driveways on Park View a lot of them
just have a much more organic feel
versus like the 90 degrees to it so my
feedback as well that you would prefer a
more organic feel just okay more but if
it had feel with the two hardcapes and
it was the same uh width from the
existing driveway that would be
appropriate or that would be see one of
the problems we have is we can't really
opine on what because seven people are
going to vote and you know so what one
person thinks is is and so we got to be
careful we don't give you sort of like
legal advice here and we actually like
the right angles like the design he gave
us we actually like that and
everything's designed around that so
yeah no we get it and like we say I
think we all think it's gorgeous and we
appreciate and this house is beautiful
you've done a beautiful job here and
he's done a beautiful job even if his
second cousin was a basketball player
you know so anyway
okay put some thoughtful ideas and
measurements and pictures um thank you i
appreciate that thank you very much
thank you doctor let Let's Do I hear a
motion to table this matter please so
move Marsh thank you second
second Shik second Mr shik's faster than
you are Mr shel Brener um
well thank you for taking the time to
thank you for calling her and bringing
her over here that was helpful yeah all
in favor of tableabling this matter say
I all oppose nay no no the matter passes
unanimously the matter's table till the
April meeting thank you
doctor all right let's see i don't think
there's anything else on the docket is
there no sir there is not does anybody
have any meeting any business they want
to bring before the board other than the
suggestions already made by
appropriately
so no all right i will entertain a
motion to adjourn the meeting so moved
thank you sir
all in
favor there's a second needed the matter
is We don't need a second for that one