e
e e
big loud
Cav doesn't look like
ity
back CR
that's what I did
before I don't know because it was
working before with no
problem no I'm not
but it's not even showing my
um but it was working fine a minute
ago show meeting
meeting that is not
good your
display should I start over
again
e
e e
agenda items you should be able
to we have uh six consent agenda items
tonight I will read them for
record application ARB
25-8 address is 79 South Dawson
application ARB
25-9 address is 28 Meadow
Park application ARB
25-10 331 South
Parkview ARB
25-11 address is 225 North
Columbia application ARB
25-13 address is 56 North
Stanwood and application Bap
25-7 address is 2463 East Main
Street these these applications are uh
for sign a consent agenda the board has
reviewed them given their comments to
staff and um has agreed to uh move to
consent do anybody in the audience here
to speak want want to speak to any of
these
applications seeing none do I have a
motion motion to approve all
roll call please Miss Jones yes Mr Hall
yes chairman Scott
yes we have uh five applications tonight
that have been tabled these applications
will not be heard tonight and will be
tabled to a future meeting first
application is Bap 25-1 address is 188
North
cassingham second application is ARB
2451 address is 653
CLA third application is Bap
25-2 address is 405 North
cassingham application Bap
25-4 address is 811 South
Roosevelt and the last application is
ARB
25-2 address is 791 South Roosevelt D12
oh sorry D12 791 South
and those that need be vote on what is
correct we just need to vote to table
them to a date certain which would be
April 10th 10th April 10th motion to
move to April
[Music]
10th Miss Jones yes Mr Hall yes chairman
Scot
yes takes us to our new business tonight
um first application is ARB
25-4 address is 680 grandon applicant is
JD baggley owner is Kenneth
slovich we have staff
report yes um and also I'm sorry if I
missed this did you let the um
applicants and audience know that we
only have three members so a
positive okay could you do that uh so
tonight we have only three board members
present so uh we will need a unanimous
vote for approval on any
application okay this application is for
a hot tub and a Pera in the backyard in
the rear yard um my only concern really
for this project was that it was
properly screened from the home to the
um on the what side would that be south
side of this property um and my concern
was alleviated once I went and did a
site visit because in the pictures and
the photographs on the um packet it does
have a chainlink fence but since then
there has been a pretty opaque white I
think it is vinyl but a nonetheless an
opaque White Fence um that is uh
currently there so I don't I don't
really have any um issues with this that
the owner I will say on the record has
done a great job with improvements on
the house
um you what one one thing yeah and they
do they have filed at Bap application to
install a taller fence than allowed on
the north side of the property as
well which is a separate application
correct that will not come to you but
but just so you know um because that
might help with any concerns of
screening on the public side which is by
the way very public because it's on the
Alley um so um they probably have a
pretty good case for that extended fence
height but it's not it's informational
for you but not under our
purview thank
you is the applicant
present you please come up and in
please could you make sure that the
little green light is on your microphone
and if not just push the button perfect
thank
you even better have your name and
address you
sworn do you swear airm testimony you
give this evening will be the truth yes
thank
you uh do you have any comments you want
to address to the board before we no I
think think I did
to explain we
got our neighbors are thrilled with it
Tre thrilled
because okay thank you uh
report I think overall like it'll be a
nice addition
toer the exist Heth the colors nicely
and it seems to be a pretty tasteful
design and only made
thank you
Mr uh I also don't have any major
comments I think I really appreciate the
efforts of putting the
U water in
ground elevated which I think is is an
excellent will not be visual I SW
anyway the addition of a taller fence
and
I have no additional
comments is there anyone in the public
that would like to speak regarding this
application that has
standing seeing none do we have a
motion
second call findings of P yes the
finding facts and conclusions of law for
the application ARB
2524 for the property located at 680
grandon the architecture review board
Rec uh approves the
application um for and gives and issues
a certificate of appropriateness for a
new Spa with paper patio and a
Pergola uh all minor design changes are
subject to approval by the residential
design
consultant you agree with these findings
fact yes we have roll call Mr Hall yes
Miss Jones yes chairman Scott yes
approve thank
you next application is ARB
25-5 address is 86 stop Cassidy
applicant is Coleman Fitch owner is
Coleman the applicant present
tonight please come
up you please give your name and address
SW 86
there it is and also Logan
fit realized I feel application
incorrectly applicant owner no
problem and do you swear airm the
testimony you give us evening will be
the truth yes yes I we have a staff
report please yeah I this application
looks really good um the only reason it
really is in front of us tonight is that
um the there weren't uh kind of true
elevations there were nice three di
menion representations but um we really
need to see straight on elevations so we
can see things like how under porches
work and stuff like that so I just want
to explain that um having said that
still the elevations looked great but we
had some board members have some
questions about um absence of some notes
on the drawings like heights and uh um
you know materials and stuff like that
so I'll just take notes and make sure
that we um condition those with any
approval but it it really looks great
I'm glad to see you you guys doing it
these are um two of my son's classmates
from years and years
ago uh you have anything you like to
present to the board maybe just
questions
about approval address all possible
issues you know massing density
obviously you know windowss AR P out
exact lap sighting reveals aren't called
out but you know big picture items that
the commission has issues with we can
get very easily for next submission
especially Forum here we just want to
make sure that you we don't
curve well I do want to say we have
Forum we
will yeah we
can it just has to all three be
positive
arate alley well um he didn't think went
moon on anything uh lck covered was
still in compliance offsets to neighbors
were still in
compliance still paying comage the
original home but yeah think it's a good
addition to hear your opinions but thank
you is there anyone in the audience that
has standing that would like to speak to
this
application seeing none I'll turn it
over the board Mr
Hall yeah I think it's a a really nice I
didn't have a lot of questions about the
heights because the existing pictures
were in here so I can kind of tell how
was sort of related to perspective so I
I don't think I have a lot of concerns
there um and I frankly think it's a a
really nice house I appreciate the
drawings I think 3D
[Music]
RS tell the story a little bit the two
dimensional really a good deal for you
know ning the addition
you know sort of play into it I like
the a little bit of a reveal want to
call it that structure that is occurring
between the you know bigger house and
bigger portion in the garage itself and
you done a good job of picking up on
some relationships and the windows and
kind of keeping that um variance
consistent so I really think it's going
to be a successful project for you guys
M uh my comments were similar I think um
he speak about materiality and just
addings I think style wise it looks
really nice think certainly in keeping
withal
character
before but I think
coms uh I also like the massing of the
project and the window placements and
and the overall breaking up of the of
the facade I think that the elevation is
is very helpful 3D is of course much
appreciative but the elevation really
start to dive into the details my only
concern is um there's still rendering
even though they're Line work without
notes and dimensions and slopes it's
it's still just a the unnoted
undimensioned
so when we look at a set of submittals
for approval we' like to have something
that's quantitative uh so I actually
have no changes for the design of your
project but I I think I would recommend
to the board a motion to make a
condition to to work with staff to get
that submitted as moving forward prior
to the permit submittal approval so that
you have at least what has been
submitted here is documented on file so
that has something to put to this
construction studies I really I think
everything is appropriate I think how
you broke in the massing down
appropriate works well and I think it's
a great project
objections just for
clarification and you mentioned maybe
moving to staff
correspondence me we have the
opportunity here to make a condition of
the approval that you submit a revised
elevation that has Heights and
conventions s of the action Gables
material C so what the what the Brak
material is what your SS are what the
trims are yeah obviously you're trying
to match existing but you know existing
is old so you're trying to find a
product that's matching Windows what
those window types are critical what's
shingle those are things that we
typically like to see but I think
working with staff is fully appropriate
on we do have here just one com we are
to keep the existing sting on the
original structure uh and then we were
going to go to the lab
so the current home if you go to the
current photos plan and they
actually
sighting with the removal of the current
older edition with new edition we move
to a cement board board product sighting
make on the record no and that's that's
part of our challenge is in the so we
don't know what it is so we can't just
blindly approve it we don't it's just a
rendering
garage door drawing with the garage door
is great but what is that garage door so
those those types of that type of
information we need and I think we
talked with staff and she understands
that you know that is submitted then
that's a condition of approval if it's
not submitted it comes back to us right
yeah and I work with your architect a
lot
so he's very good just a lot in New
Albany and there's different standards
so um
so we move to
motion do we yeah
motion
to I I'll read it into the facts and
findings second okay and you can um
correct me if I don't have it correct um
fact the findings and fact and
conclusions of law for the application
ARB
2525 for the property located at 86
South Cassidy the Architectural Review
Board grants a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish the previous
Edition and existing detached garage and
replace with a new addition to the
existing home and a new attached garage
with the following condition that the
dimensioned and noted drawings be
submitted to
staff for
review
y you understand these findings effect
thank Mr Hall yes Miss Jones chairman
scottt yes thank thank you great good
job
guys next application is ARB
25-6 address is 2557 East Broad Street
applicant is Stephanie Hayward owner is
Kelly and Jacqueline Gerber applicant
present tonight please come up name and
address do you swear airm the testimony
give this evening will be the truth
thank you can we have yes um this is
also a pretty simple um and
appreciated um fill in to what is
currently the front porch in the
pictures um and the The Proposal as well
as a mudroom um the the current
construction has already been approved
and is under way so this is kind of part
two um the I'm going to just scroll down
to the elevations so what I just showed
you in the pictures compared to um this
is you know in my estimation a pretty
good
change
um it it is a change from um it's
screens currently correct yeah that's
the only like major change is that it's
a a change from a screen front porch
which arguably is a kind of weird
definition of I mean it is a front porch
but that's not where the door is um to
condition
space which is probably why you're here
and not
on um but I I I'll let it did you
already get sworn in yes okay do you
want to add anything to that
room that last year for
all
all trim under the
windowsglass
windows thank you is anyone in the
audience that has standing would like to
speak to the
board see
turn so I think you know going back to
Karen's comments I think removing the
screens and adding contextually
appropriate windows and paneling makes a
lot of sense um I think it's a nice
Improvement to
[Music]
yeah I mean I think that um front piece
looks good in my intimation
um and then as it pertains to the B I
don't have a problem with it for feels a
little odd to have of his two Mings off
the in that creat a funny little pocket
of
space was there any
it does that because
windows and then we are adding windows
that are facing the Sun that are
actually the windows that
[Music]
no the front porch and the mudroom so
the mud so in this South elevation that
I have up there now what I'm kind of
circling with the cursor is already
approved it's under ruction it's already
been
here right so this is the only new thing
on the
back so they'll go straight out
instead oh and the door will change
places
yep oh I see what you're saying
okay yeah Amy Lous just wanted me to
know that she can't hear so make sure
you're microphones are on sorry I'm
getting
multiple usually I'm not a fan of
filling in like this but it's already
this this is much better than there so
just because I think the idea having
front for a very nice feature to our
house
especially but as I look at this um the
openings and it looks
you're extending theace out into the the
no doors or anything
plan removing the door
was so it would just be the door from
dining room into
that okay won't be
any
okay um which isn't too much unlike a
lot of like side
it's appropriate from that perspective
so are you then going to um on your
outside there's some steps that lead up
to
steps
steps I not it's
not like to stay
I that is not the front door to the
house
the front door is on that midle photo
the front door yeah you can see North
elevation it's to the right of porch so
that's the proper front door into the
house it's not attached to the
p and then the walkway leading to the
steps is all going to stay there
too that was the intent yeah
think if you're going to take the door
out you need to do something to addess
that
and think that's just a you know a
detail that's that would
be unfortunate and you know I hate to
see it like tear out two little knall
stug side those are nice but is there a
way to
do that is relative to to the house
structure itself
so that's one suggest
um I too think that this this idea of
the mudro coming out creting this little
dark out Co in here is going to be
problematic so I get what you're trying
to do um just pay attention to
that's
know um so they have detached garage
okay they're back there off the alley it
can just kind of become this little that
stuff
that's
responsibility but um yeah that's all I
I I think the as I as I look at the the
front think I'd like to see something
else done besides just leing stairs Le
walkway there so it does look like it's
a
make I would want to make sure that you
are not building out to the edge of the
stuff
right the intent is that it will line up
with the head that head above on all
three sides is
slightly yeah I think that's doesn't
have to be a lot it has to
be and I think also I think at that old
door location where you're moving the
door but leaving the
steps you absolutely need to dress that
up I love the have stone
I would remove those I would look atbe
TR you're not going remove that concrete
with
Conns plants the verticality is nice
maybe there's a light but I think
there's a way to dress it up and make a
bench planter combo can you need thing
that's maybe mailboxes there so there's
this kind of stopping point because
without any kind of real purpose it's
obviously an old Tre that got ped up and
that doesn't make any
sense I don't you need to do a ton of
demo I think it's just getting a little
creative with making it interesting in a
moment as somebody's coming up passing
the
house I also now that this image is up
thank you uh I'm concerned with the
space between these two masses um it is
a weird space mudit or not you know get
put rocks in there and there's gas the
problem is you have a gas meter coming
into the house so because my first
suggestion was going to be you should
build a deck and make it part of the
step the level and then stairs directly
off directly back to the pathway to your
garage but with that gas that's kind of
wrench and all that unless you're
willing to move that but something yeah
so because making that a little bit more
of a seating area could be really nice
because it's somewhat private and it
makes again gives that space purpose and
you're doing all this work around it
this like it's kind of a shame that this
make this dead space Stay Le that's
where all the leads are going to be
collected and neighor recycling that's
blown off for the recycling bin so
that's what end um so I would just you
know I don't have a strong condition to
the application but I think it's a
recommendation to really look at some
options there again it could be a pler
could be something else too so I don't
think it's something that we need to see
again I just want to make that
recommendation actually like this stair
flip
because it relates a little bit more it
comes out a little further or your
sidewalk the garage says you'd have to
go around it the one thing I would
is the doorway into the house the pad
coming up the top of the steps trying to
open the door it's not very big so it's
always going to be a little bit of a typ
if you have groceries in your hand
standing up there and trying to get in
you're always going to be half on a step
so more room to push just a foot or to
past the door give you a ton of extra
space which I highly recommend
rep that's why I like extending that
because then it becomes a little bit
more of a deck must work sheet anding
more rear rear of a house appropriate
but either way I you need more Spence
so and I don't see a light is there a
light plan for this the light was
in great
perfect yeah I think everything else is
is did you one more so I keep looking at
what you're tearing off the the canopy
that's going over the existing door and
it's it's absolutely beautiful but I get
what they're trying to do but is there a
way that maybe you could like the
brackets preserve those and then
potentially use them on what you on your
little can canopy there I don't think
you need it necessarily I think it would
be nice to to give that a little detail
that is kind of similar to this know you
use the brackets but right now you're
just showing a little box kind of
protruding off there and I think if you
could um look through this element for
some influence I I think I would add a
little gas to this side so
just are any of these things meant to be
um sorry any of these things meant to be
conditions are these all
recommendations one could be a
condition they look like they're in
solid shape right they don't look like
they're the brackets the brackets yeah
so I think you know just bringing a
little bit of that character that's in
this Camp you don't recreated but bring
some character into your modern slab I
think would be there's more to that
anyway right we know splashing and trim
and taking that so I think that would be
Lear any other
conditions or the rest St I think that's
a condition to not we designing this but
to to address and to make it purposeful
is a condition just don't address the
front stairs front stairs but the my my
suggestion the comment that I fig that
for the space between the structures is
not a
condition someone else
say I think I got
it I'm put the rear stair be turned
since it's not in this drawing and I'll
I'll put it yes part of
the
yeah exactly look how quick you
are okay all right we have findings of
fact oh do we need a motion motion a
motion
second call findings of fact please all
right findings of fact and conclusions
of law for the application ARB
2526 for the property located at 2557
East Broad the architecture review board
grants a certificate of appropriateness
to include enclose a front porch and add
a mudroom to the rear of the existing
home with the following conditions that
the rear stair be
reoriented that the applicant use the
existing brackets on the new rear porch
or rear mudroom um and that the
applicant addressed the front stairs in
a creative way something purpose
purposeful
way in a purposeful
way
okay you understand these findings of
that you agree
IE won't need to come back unless she
feels she needs the
he
call Mr Hall yes Miss Jones chairman
Scott
yes final application for new business
is ARB
25-7 address is 125 North cassingham
applicant is Daniel abet I pronounce
that right so owner is Dan and Katie
MCD your name
address do you swear affirm the
testimony you give is seeming to be the
truth you have staff report all right
this application is also an enclosure of
an already existing structure um I've
spoken with the applicant about this and
um he knows and we'll talk about it
tonight that I have a problem with the
windows because other than that there's
not really much you can do he's just
enclosing an already existing um space
in a perfect world we'd rather see that
addition probably look differently but
it's there um but we did talk in pretty
good
detail uh about my desire to see the
windows match in proportion grid size
grid
pattern all that kind of stuff because I
think that is really the only thing
about this new project that will end up
tying the house tying that into the
existing house
you have anything you want to say to the
board tonight um yeah I mean it's a
reasonably
reason
ration saring off the the bottom picture
saring offing the door putting in the
window program the additional space and
then any remaining step um would be
removed and and brought into the profile
of the last sting and then on the back
of house um maintaining the current door
as the primary door moving forward and
then that back side will become an
exterior door into an
outside program which we have not
addressed and then one of the reasons
why they do want to close in the
backside which fa of their neighbor on
the south side is primarily because um
they wanted to become their mud room um
which ultimately they would have cabinet
lock Etc so
that put but we want apply a window in
that
maintaining
up thank you is there anyone in the
audience that has standing that would
like to speak about this
application see none turn to the board
Mr Hall
[Music]
made the G roof coming off this little
the right portion yeah left little do is
kind of in here in an angle and
everything and um there's nothing we can
really do about that this point but um
just some questions this looks like it's
setting on a concrete foundation and a
concrete SL on
right
um do you know um at the foundation
level has a is is the inside Space of
that Foundation do it have station on
um so there's not a good thermal break
there would be one concern
I
window and using this in an interior
space so my same question is for the
roof structure you get up into the
ceiling is there insulation there so
it's they scam in so the reason why I
believe they have is because of the uh
the above space the ceiling goes above
the that back window the back brick
window so not
um talk to me a little bit about Windows
and you're going to use with and are
they are you going off of the existing
structure and what those look like or
what's yeah so it it it might have been
just in the drawing um I was trying to
add grids I tried to put them you know
approximately where they would be
clearly the window on the left hand side
is the grid pattern is it needs an
additional
horizontal um or it needs an additional
vert more verticals to make the windows
a little bit smaller to match the
existing grid structure um I I was
planning on working with Karen we've
talked about that um and but that one
would be a stationary window um as it
would be above cabinet so they actually
wouldn't even be able to ask so we do
you know intend on
maintaind PN house to match
exting Ju Just to be clear we had the
conversation about this about two weeks
ago so I did asked to have something for
today but at when I checked on it
yesterday or today I can't remember when
we talked to he would just WR like to go
for the condition that um I work with
him on it which is fine I mean I would
have liked for you guys to see it but I
don't feel like that
is this porch like Mr Hall said has
other issues
the doors that you're putting in they
look like they're swinging out right
they swinging
in they intend on them to be s in but
there's no there's no steps on the
outside of this thing where those doors
are yeah again we we didn't address the
exterior
program we haven't addressed that I mean
we can put a temporary single St there
but that's a that they did not
open the room be open
ledge
add con
um I think a lot of my comments are
probably going to
Echo what Mr Paul just
said you know I obviously I think there
needs to be some refinement on what the
doors and offer in that proposed
Edition I would also say the that the of
the window
um on that side feels a little OD in
relation to the rest of
the on on the building um I would I
would challenge you to kind of reink
that um and maybe take it back
to a vertical orientation and reor
Cabinetry around it um we get creative
all the time with our projects and um
you know thinking through about the
exterior wories of the Interior um so I
think that could potentially help and
then I think again just seeing a a
window metal just to fully
understand what those what those look
like ium you guys don't want to get into
changing the roof slope at the current
for um but you I think it's stated it's
just add obviously
are
so I don't really have any other coms I
think that haven't been said already but
you know potentially some things to look
at and I think just
additional thank
you uh I'm going to restate Hall comment
about the real usability of the space
in when it's really cold out because I'm
worried for the homeowner on this slab
on this obviously screaming porch slab
that's going to be now into a condition
space the frost that's going to happen
because of the freezing of that SL and
not a thermal break so I would recommend
really looking at how you might be able
to add maybe a a perimeter almost we'll
call a water table around that which is
rigid insulation and then plaing that
it'll pull that from the facade of your
house but I think without that with this
room you're going to want it then to be
almost closed off from the rest of the
house and I know that that's not the
case here I'm looking at the plan there
it's open the one room so which I think
is appropriate I think the design wise
that's good I just think there's going
to be some challenges here in longterm
use of what it's 10 Five Below out this
thing there might be frost in the bottom
the W and we've seen that in many
properties
these these types of spaces when they're
converted get
be I would definitely look at that um
also agree with the the other board
members comments about you know the one
window in plan it shows a more um one
window and in your elevation you ever
dis um you know I think it's it's for me
it's 6 to1 and a half dozen you're
walking into an existing condition
that's extremely quirky and uh quite
difficult and without changing the
massing of this roof and doing any sort
of a dorm or change to it you know all
of your header Heights are lower the
needs house which I think is is a
problem huge problem but you're kind of
dealt with that because it was a screen
in
porch so you know on one hand you just
own it right and maybe you pick that up
and you carry that that new header type
of Windows around with a piece of trim
so now you you've said okay I know these
are lower but I'm going to actually
articulate a little B more on the
exterior side because then you can own
that height change and you say yes we're
going to use it and as it
do I don't have a problem with a single
Bay two bay window horizontal or you
make it vertical it makes sense to make
it vertical but looking at your interior
space and what I think you're building
in there that's probably going to be
might be difficult especially because
it's not a huge space but you know I
agree creativity can solve many things
so I wouldn't necessarily make that a
condition I'm much more interested in in
and tying that elevation change of those
windows into the massing of the building
just like a trim element just so that it
it's acknowledged a little bit that is
different and I think that would be
okay I also agree I think you know I
know you you you've made it very clear
that you're not addressing things
outside the perimeter of the building
right now uh you know having double
doors open in which is probably
appropriate uh to a you know maybe a 12
or 18 inch drop at the end of the world
but it's not usable nothing feet feet
that's be obviously recommend doing
something outside of that's maybe it's a
deck that comes back and it's you know
something that brings this really indoor
outdoor feel of the space which is
really
nice and I think the other aspect is
that I don't seen here is there any
lighting that's on this on this building
in this this revision yeah I do
apologize um we we not we haven't
actually
about what they want and the exterior
program is
ultimately um you know a conversation we
need to have I mean would obviously be
noting of the house it would be
primarily in the two openes the minim so
yeah I would expect minimally the door
that's going to get used the most the
single door but it could also be on the
back on the light and I would look more
towards decorating than flood Lighting
in backyard because that's not
appropriate that's that
height that's all of my comments oh I do
for the record uh I love that you've
eliminated this horky angled door entry
they do too and simplify that though you
know I love Corky so you there's there's
history there and I'm sure there's
reasons for that so
um and again I think the proportion of
that window on that facade is just the
find that makes a big
difference and you know she'll work with
you on getting the the buttons right
on but they're more
vertically not
horizontal any final
comments any comments you want to
address from the board's
comments
um no I mean I I totally understand you
guys coming from um and you we'll do
whatever we can make sure this
is the existing original
find okay I hope I have this all um the
findings and facts and conclusions of
law for application ARB
2527 for the property located at 125
North cassingham the architecture review
board reg grants a certificate of
appropriateness for addition new front
doors which I don't even think we talked
about that didn't we is that in that no
front new front T was in front on the
front of the house no okay I think it
was just in the application verbage
that's okay and an interior I scratched
it
out uh with the following conditions
that the applicant work with the um
City's design consultant about um
concerns about condition space and how
the architecture could help to insulate
it um Lighting on the
exterior ex the exterior transition to
the exterior space um and window
patterns including
placement um trim work to emphasize
lower
headers
um possibly tying into trim and
clarifying grid
patterns and window sizes a
lot any final comments from the board
you understand these findings of fact I
do can I just say for the record just so
you hear it this is a lot and um I just
want to make sure that you as applicant
understand that if if these things don't
all come together It's my prerogative to
bring it back to the board for review
okay thank you roll call
please Mr Hall yes Miss Jones
chairman Scott yes
thanks takes us to Old business first
application is be at
2449 address is 2300 Livingston
applicant is Bill Downing owner is
Bexley Apartments LLC see the applicant
is here tonight would you please come up
and he sworn it
again all those who are
speaking name and address Kevin this
well address
21111
82 if you swear airm the testimony you
give this evening will be the truth
thank you we have staff report please
are we doing 2300 first3 first
okay all right um it may take me a
second to oh no it's coming right up
okay so I think the applicant has done a
really good job in their presentation
of um of summarizing what the issues
were that the board had with this
project uh we felt it was pretty close
but there were some significant changes
that the board had asked for this is the
this is the last um proposal and um I'm
going to give you what my memory is but
they actually did a nice job summarizing
on here too but the main issues were
that Dormer um and potentially getting
rid of that d
even though I do think that yeah I'm
just doing off top of my head first okay
I won't there we go um so everything
that was in my notes is U matches
exactly here so um the new proposal
is has addressed all of those things and
if you want to walk through them or if
you just want to get into some questions
that's totally your call you do AEF
yes so kind of working from left to
right and going from what was shown on
that previous slide but you can see that
Middle Bay on the the larger volume of
the building as you go down living we
carried that same window pattern that
was on the end C then consistent through
on the second and third floor so that's
the same Bri detailing so forth um same
window coming around the corner that
blank wall um of the building we we're
not able to add Windows because of some
fire rings but we are able to and did
add brick patterning that's consistent
with also what you see on the west end
of the building where some of those
brick patterns have Windows within them
some of them are
just surface feature that transition
element did have a roof that was siding
as was commented on with the buildings
that go down Fran town home type units
and so we took that and from a
suggestion with a good suggestion
appreciate it our last meeting here took
that to a low slope roof so that there
is that Collision um as we were looking
at that we also started looking at the
brackets that are on that roof overhang
we pulled that roof overhang in a little
bit about 8 in and simplified the
brackets so that there's just a little
bit less of
a we did look at different options for
the Dormer that was a Gable Dormer we
looked at a shed and in the end felt
that it was um just better to keep that
simple and remove that Dormer entirely
we have a study that I think we come up
in a slide or
two showing from the upper left to the
lower right some of the things that we
looked at both in terms of the brackets
and in terms of that Dormer and and we
we landed in in feeling like that dor
was just one more thing that was maybe a
little bit too much there so um and then
finally we took a look at the porches
there weren't really any concerns from
those porches that are facing
Francis um other than just wanting to
see some additional details so we
developed and
provided details really
on material assembly gorgeous together
great thank
you yes uh so depending on how many
public uh people in the public that want
to come up and speak we will have a
timer of three minutes tonight so you be
mindful of that this is a time if you
have standing or would like to come up
and address the board with anything new
that you may have if you've been here
before we request that it be new
information the new comments uh they
address the board sir anybody interested
in coming up and speaking please come up
and be sworn
it name and address
please you swear from the testimony you
give this evening will be the truth
thank
you last time I was here um I was
talking about the fing in the back in
the fence line and so we did talk about
that today and we came to an
arment um I was just wondering is that
going to be written in to this document
or
something let me clarify one thing that
I I probably wasn't clear about at the
beginning because I was focused on
design this is simply a recommendation
not simply it's important but it is a
recom we are doing a recommendation to
the board of zoning and planning and
it's under Board of zoning and planning
that all of that will be written in the
final
decision does that make
sense it can be either Tre public we I
was thinking it would be tree and public
garden Commission because it has to do
with the fence and sort of the S
development um and it's it stipulates
the kind of the design of the fence post
and where it lays out in uh correlation
to the parking spaces yes but in either
case either Cas it could be we just a
recommendation tonight
yeah no I I totally agree with you and I
will address that we had discuss that
here in our last meeting so I'm happy to
hear what that solution might be and
have it for our own record so well I'm
not the expert
but yeah I can speak or we can have the
appli directly yeah it was in the me
yeah so so uh Miss Turner wanted um some
sort of enhanced security
in front of the fence that borders her
property to the north um so the solution
we came up with instead of putting
ballards in or or at each parking spot
was um when the fence is installed to
have I think it'll be six six six by6
post and and it might need to be a
little bit custom but have the post of
the fence lay out in the in the
midsection the you know Midway of the
parking lot so if a car pulls into the
space and tries to go through the fence
they hit the post of the fence not a
panel of the fence um it essentially
acts like a wooden Ballard it'll be in
concrete in the ground so um that's the
that's sort of the condition and um
they're going to go to you you can
certainly condition it uh I was going to
suggest tpgc Tre public garden
commission they go to they go right yeah
it's not it's not an architecture thing
we have heard that yeah con
yep so that that was the
condition uh we I'll confirm that before
the tree public garden
commission
okay anyone else
seeing none turn it over the
board so I unfortunately missed um the
February meeting but this
isie several months back so um I do
appreciate you know a lot of the detail
that has been added as well
just the due diligence of really taking
care to find out what comments are
Incorporated from so around so I
appreciated that a lot of them you know
help me get my head back
into um I think you know just
contextually having um additional site
details ining like stbs from the road um
that was also really helpful to see you
lay out your detail so I appreciate that
as well um I just had a couple of minor
questions since I wasn't fully valid to
comments from the last
meeting um is was it a request of the
board to have two different RI types or
was that just idea to differentiate the
building but that was really intended to
provide
each I think there's I can just add
there's also did a lot of community inut
we did um I think I told that story I
don't need to tell it again but um a lot
of what we heard from local neighbors
was a really um strong desire on the
Francis um um front edge to have a more
residential expression but as we look at
the look Avenue plan and and that
document that it called for something a
little different so I think um what we
tried to do was was balance both of
those um pieces of of information
no I think that makes a lot of sense I
think
particular has come a long way so you
know I think a lot of those changes are
good
um I wonder if there's a way a little
color condition where the green doesn't
that
corner at
other
colleagues thank you Mr Hall so I think
taking out that little maner piece in
the middle really help pull the two
together almost it's like three like
stre you know Street front with
different structures abing each other
and I know we had a lot of conversation
about the door on the side um but when I
get to this two-dimensional elevation
colored in and everything I think a
dormer on that inap actually would
really get a nice
TCH there's a lot of roofs there
and a lot of roof and now that the out
there I
[Music]
think com um I think the the move you
made with the brackets is actually
really nice um I think they're a little
more Bess like um you know usually see
these sort of like long string brackets
here you see know sort of flatten bra
like
that but I think it's a long way you
know I'm still not you know a huge fan
of the the three sort structure and
everything but I get it you know but I
think he done a nice job of to desizing
the you know along the the street there
and everything I that's going to be a
nice touch too um and and and I actually
sort of think I know I say a lot about
this you know this three structure you
know I think the idea of this
residential piece poting around in this
structure in the middle Tris and then
going to that I think is actually going
to it's probably going to resolve itself
in reality very
well so that's my only com relas I I
like
to so
which
one um I want I want to commend the Your
Design Team um and you for uh working
with the board and and really listening
to the comments and incorporating them
into the design um because I know it's
adding cost I know it's adding more
details and then you've actually gone to
be BM me on and done some things that we
did ask for that actually helped tie
this together and give even more Street
presence and pedestrian feel to the
scale bu we have a big wall right we
have closed units we don't want
individual doors on Livingston
here and you you've given especially
that kind of the sexy evening rendering
with
lights come to this coming back to this
you know obviously that's it's appealing
if you keep going
that's a great shot lot of a lot of
greenery so you can't really see the
building but we don't
there and I love the windows in the
middle I think tying all that together
really solies with this shot but it's
the little trellis that you added to the
building that really sered not much
purpose they're just ornamentation but
it brings the scale of the building down
but do have opes which we we requested
get residential F to
be so I think all those movements with
the benches of the
land streetcap ties it very well into
the overall Livingston Corridor master
plan and I think you really maximized
that effort here to really start
planting the seed for that growth so I
think I think all of these moves are
very strong and very power very
successful I have any criticism
on the only question I have
I I I may pause or pass on the Dormer
discussion was looking at it with no
Dormer I'm kind of leaning back but I
don't want to get there I do have a
question about the uh how the and I the
porch details that was requested you've
done Full Construction drawings for the
most part on these porch details and I
really appreciate that because I think
it shows the quality of the details and
how the fabrication of these are going
to go and I think it's very appropriate
and
very say be Mr mention
my question here is we have a high high
pitch Gable for this front porch but
it's actually intersecting the building
and where the building jumps so you zoom
into the where it hits the building yeah
it's not doesn't continue with the
job curious if you have an answer to
that condition here or that's something
you're to look at because I'm not sure
how that's going to work I'm assuming
it's to
continue tending to carry the roof just
you six inches into that
16
inch there really is that space behind
it okay rather than trying so that's
purposeful that's that's purposeful I I
don't think that this sketch model shows
that as at at that exact Dimension it
should go probably a little bit P that
yeah I don't know I don't
know that's not be good so I would also
recommending it back a little bit of
space having a turn a little bit you can
get that of work with the Breck would be
nice because it's a Corky condition no
doubt and I also incur with the brackets
the comments on the brackets I think
these are a little bit more unique a
little bit more subtle but also
articulate that that Rhythm across the
side with the windows love the flat roof
connecting mass that works really well
again pedestrian scale soft materials to
wood that at the ramp going into
build the one question is is the
handrails you want to a SketchUp model
you can claim modeling as
you he looks like you're wall mounting
these handrails on the stairs of the
porches you scroll to the right a little
bit
more and it's going in front of the
window all I would suggest as you
surface mount and let
this e
we
go I guess I mean it kind of went on and
off on its
own no no it it just literally went out
and then went right back in so I'm going
to rewind a little bit to the discussion
of the Dormer if if the discussion here
tonight was hey would you okay with
introducing the Dormer back in
in zo back now no it it justor I was
checking that I was checking sure we
were streaming on YouTube so it like
disconnected and went right back on so
we
good you're always multi-chat tasking
that's okay then I can speak to the D a
little bit that's help I I will I will I
just want to make sure we get
it yeah we're good because it does
feel like a lot of roof coming down and
especially in the elevation which we
don't need to go to unless the board
want see
that so I I remember I was here for the
discussion of why that was there was
some conflict the different roofs and
there's there's a roof change we often
understanding this roof is coming down
it changes slope so there's it kind of
pulls out in a lesser slope angle to
kind of pick up this the rim of the
overhang of the bracket
so we we were concerned that there was
just a lot going on in that roof massing
we wanted to simplify it but look at you
can go to the next I see this in the
form which I really appreciate this is
more information that you ever need to
submit but it gives us a chance to see
how you're thinking and I really
appreciate
looking at the bottom twoo left or
right my thought is the left starts to
it's very appropriate shape scale but it
ALS it just plays and addresses a little
bit of the street better in my mind then
then it's kind of flatter long facade of
asphalt shingle roof and starts to give
a little bit more residential field
which is a perfect you see up and down
all that all the streets so I'm not
against it I think with the change in
the brackets and the flat roof next to
it I I leaning towards that I think I
agreed with Mr Hall I'd like to see that
so in that I'm leave final comments to
the other board members and
then and I agree I like I actually like
I think the difference between the the
two the diagonal here just the
rets um but I like the one upper right
yes I'm sorry
agree and and so our thought process was
we we started with
that with looking at the Dormer and not
the Dormer in two dimensions and really
saw that roof volume in the two
dimensional drawing as being too much
we've got the and then as we looked at
it in three dimension and this is the
view that really kind of focuses it the
most on the Dormer so if you move on to
the corner View at the at the where
you're looking at the ground that's kind
of focused on that entry we think at the
street scale it started to are you're
talking about this one yeah but and also
when you're looking at it from the other
direction but it it you know the
activity comes down to the street so
that was and even in that that view here
that you just scoll past yes you know
the the roof is again it just sort of
recedes a little bit and and so our
thought I think it was what C Chanel
that said when you you look in the
mirror and turn around quickly and take
off the one thing that distracts you and
down a little bit so that was the
thought but we're also we know that we
don't anything that we show is it's fair
game so I don't think that if if you
would like to make the condition that
the Dormer is is essential you know
that's it's still to you yes we didn't
want to show anything that we didn't
think you made so many improvements to
from the last not improvements
progression that's I hate just think one
more
Mr yeah I still look at the the
rendering that's on top of the four
options that you show that's the one
that really caught me first and then as
you kind of go through and start looking
at two dimensionally then just starts to
reinforce my thinking I I appreciate
everything you're saying I mean I I
agree with you when you're down street
level whether that D is there or not I
think is irrelevant but um you know
Livingston is a um better for worse a a
four lane road here and you do see you
will see this building from across the
street
your perspective is from many different
points versus just right at that corner
and I I think this this this big sloping
roof with shingles is just it it just
looks like a flat plane to me so I am
pretty much in the corner of one thing a
warmer on that
so that's is that a condition I think
that's a condition
yes I didn't miss speak apologize I
think I made some people almost fall out
their chairs I was comparing the bottom
two but it is really two I
do
okay
um think how to do
this to think about the
motion yeah if you're ready to move to
that motion to approve with the
condition of adding the Mot to recommend
to the board of zoning and planning
motion to recomend to theard of zoning
correct we have findings of fact for our
recommendation the findings in fact in
conclusions a law for the for
application Bap 2449 for the property
located at 2300 Livingston the
architecture review board recommends
that this application be approved for a
certificate of appropriateness by the
board of zoning and planning with the
condition that the
Dormer I want to say a shed Dormer
because that'll differentiate the shed
Dormer um on page 16 of tonight's
presentation in the upper right corner
be added back into the
design any other
conditions beside the fact completely
confirming that they Bap and or trean
public gardens commission will add the
conditions of the landscape fence but
I'm I appreciate hearing it because I
hadn't heard it so thank
you anything to add
for you understand these findings effect
we
agree we have roll
call Miss Jones yes Mr Hall yes chairman
Scott
yes thank you appreciate it I I oh I
didn't have my microphone on for any of
that sorry I hope that it picked it up
um I just wanted to tell you both that
has been a pleasure to work with you
because every single time we have design
critique not only did they address it
but they also documented what the board
said which really makes my job easy but
I appreciate it and thank you very
much moving on if you'd like to stay
next application is at 24-50 address is
420 North Cassidy applicant is Bill
Downing owner is 420 North Cassidy
Avenue
LLC applicant is present in a sworn in
can we have staff
reports all right I I really don't have
much I really don't have much additional
to add to this one this is here for the
same reason for a um final
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for design review um
there's not as much I don't think
changes to this one as last time this
this was kind of further along in the
process I'll once again hand it over to
the applicant to do a presentation but
um it it looks great thank you well just
one there was really just a single
condition that we were asked to look at
and study which is the material at the
base and we have I think towards the end
of this presentation we have a slide
that compares the option that was
suggested to the the option that we had
originally started with um we proposed a
preast architectural
concrete specifically referencing the
material manufactured by rockcast as a
large format 16 by
32 piece of material one
more here we go there we go so that's
the option on the right which is what
we've been showing was actually part of
what was approved when this originally
approved in 2022 before the design
changes we were asked to look at a
utility brick base in a light material
as an
alternative uh which is what's on the
left there were questions about flashing
we detailed both of those kinds of
options either one would have a piece of
through flashing in this case we suggest
that stain Ste just about great as the
cavity trains out at the bottom both
will come down two grade
um then it's it's just a different scale
of material obviously pre-cast lets you
bring that out about an inch and get the
chamber versus being a slush material in
the utility brick um utility brick maybe
feels a little distorted to have 4x2
next to the 2 and a/4 by8 material you
know there are certainly larger bricks
but in the small production runs those
get just outside the budget reach of the
project they're they're not common
commonly run brick shapes and aren't
available the next uh slide shows a
couple examples
of constructed material
like the ones on the left and the right
I know are also the Rock cast material
the one on the left has been in place
for about six years the one on the right
about a year the one in the middle I
don't know for sure what that material
who the manufacturer was but that's the
material on a
project I think it's in the 16 17 18e
range for how long they been installed
just wanted to show some examples the
question was how how material where that
one I think is is maybe a
little larger aggregate than the typical
rock gas so I suspect that's a different
slight for
us any we think light material is
appropriate any light material will on
occasion
this next landscape materials get some
spash up need to
be that happen to the joints as well
[Music]
as but we we do feel with gas in our
opinion
is the the better choice for kind of the
scale on the street um but that's for
the previous one we won't show anything
but we know we won't show an option if
we can't abide by either one
that's so your preference to the state
of the rock yes it thank
you the just to be cl to clarify the
previous conversations that we had here
at it's not the material itself uh that
is in question it is the installation of
the material um and the craftsmanship
that is found within the industry of
construction that doesn't do as good a
job as they should um this is Anie that
we don't know who's doing it so I think
we should be mindful of that but also be
truthful to what it wants to be there
are other options this is one of the
options that was suggested by
board and
the the applicants preference what they
want to see so keep that in
mind pleas we we'd be happy to specify
that as broadcast which in next slide we
get with the
manufacturer on the left side yeah and
it say it's a very similar installation
so
folks and then we can clarify that as we
we get
through is anyone in the audience that
have standing that would like to come
speak see none turn
report J
was the last meeting I don't want to
misse without having some
context so I always been on the side of
this building I think it's stronger with
a very distinctive Bas M top got a
little bit of a traditional flare to it
so I am pretty much align with you know
and I understand the rock product we use
it on many many many many many products
and it um it performs very well um I
agree with the detailing you know that's
you're going deal with de whoever's
doing and I think your approach with
theader Edge and everything it's very
nice and we actually provide a nice base
to this uh this building and that be a
little I get a different color utility
is base but I think be honest about it
and I think the broadcast actually does
that so um I I'm I'm really good with
option b as SL out here
I also prer the auction
I
agree I have the same insance Mr hire
was the board member that has concerned
and he was poting two projects downtown
that uses similar product and details
and you know we can debate de with
there's there there there's it's the
look that I think is appropriate here
there there's a lot of different options
I think this is the right look and I
think it's just really paying attention
with us detail
to it it weathers well over time the
products can be find that's how the
connections are the flashing and how all
that's really finished make a big great
building the board
M I also
hey any further comment from the board
this is a recommendation to
voting this is our last item of all the
things that we there's no other other
items for us to discuss to me no and I
don't think I need to put a condition
for anything because that we're just
keeping it as the origin say that that's
that's not a condition but that we agree
that that we agree that the rockcast
base
okay okay I just need a motion a
motion
[Music]
to sorry a motion to
recommended
sorry okay the findings of fact and
conclusions of law for the application
Bap 20 4 37 is that right 2450 I thought
so why I have that 2450 for the property
located at 420 North Cassidy the
Architectural Review Board recommends
that the application be approved and a
certificate of appropriateness be
granted by the board of zoning and
planning with the um with the
clarification that the base material
remain Rock cast pre pre-cast
architectural
concrete sorry distraction oh you
understand these fin of
yes Miss Jones yes Mr Mr H yes Mr Hall
yes chairman Scott
yes thank you move forward thank you
moment on beh of our team to thank all
of you and colleagues that aren't here
we know that a big time commitment on
your part you look at things very
carefully
appreciate shows how concerning fa
thanks we're excited to see move forward
and come the
ground thank
you does any of the board members any
other business they would like to
discuss hearing
none meeting adour
I