e
e e
we will call to order the February 13
2025 Bexley Architectural Review board
meeting um can we call the
role Mr hire here Mr Hall here Mr
Calhoun here Mr Scott here chair mon
Tony here can we have approval of the
meeting minutes from last
month so
moved second call
call the roll Mr Scott yes Mr Hall yes
Mr Calhoun yes Mr hire chairwoman Tony
I'm gonna abstain since I wasn't here
last month is that okay yes
ma'am uh this is the time of the meeting
for public comment is there anyone in
the audience that would like to speak to
the board about something that is not on
the agenda tonight if it's on the agenda
we will talk about it as we get to them
any takers for that I don't see any
hands okay so the first thing we're
going to do then is we are going to um
uh approve the consent agenda items so
we have five applications that the board
has reviewed and either made small
tweaks or no changes and we are putting
them on a consent agenda and so I'm
going to read the addresses and if
there's anybody in the audits that wants
to speak about those applications let me
know the first one is application ARB
25-2 the address is 218 North Park View
the applicant is Chelsea dwire and the
owner is Lori Anne and Jonathan fibel
the second one is ARB 25-3 the address
is 2540 Maryland Avenue the applicant is
James Knox the owner is John and Narita
uh
aacle I may have just boted that name
sorry if I
did um the third one is Bap 25-3 the
address is 25 27 to 2529 East Main
Street applicant is Kyle green and the
owner is Georgia go
gawen the fourth one is ARB 25- 53 the
address is 755 Vernon the applicant is
Brenda Parker and the owner is Rachel
and Nathan Lange and the last one is
application number ARB 2-56 the address
is 2415 South Havenwood the applicant is
Austin yoke and the owner is Kate uh
cheris Nick is there anyone in the
audience that came to speak about those
applications please raise your
hand okay seeing no one is there a board
member that will make a move to approve
those five
applications so moved
Scott second Calhoun
Mr
hire Mr Hall yes Mr Calhoun yes Mr Scott
yes chairwoman Tony
yes okay those five applications are
approved and it looks like the next
thing on the agenda is to go to tabled
applications is that correct that's
correct okay the first tabl application
is uh number bap 24-37
the address is 2775 pow the applicant is
Brian Shepard and the owner is Brian and
Katie Shepard the applicant is seeking
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for a certificate of
appropriateness to add a new garage
constructed three feet off of the
property
line is the applicant here see um these
all have been asked table prior to the
meeting we have we have things on I see
what you're saying we have um emails or
letters on records so we just need to
have somebody on the board and move that
both of these applications be Ted to oh
I'm so sorry we need to just have an app
a board member move that these be tabled
to March 13th 2025 ARB they weren't
tabled to this meeting they are tabled
to the next correct thank you sorry it's
a format change yep my my bad okay and
the second one is arb2 24- 51 the
address is 653 eclair the applicant is
David lip and the owner is David lip so
these two applications will not be heard
tonight they will be tabled to the next
meeting in
March okay is there a board member that
will make a motion to move those to next
month so move so moved
higher second
Hall Mr Scott yes Mr coun yes Mr hire
yes Mr Hall yes chairwoman Tony
yes okay okay on to new business our
first order of new business is is
application number Bap 25-4 the address
is 811 South Roosevelt the applicant is
Eric Kramer the owner is Katie cells and
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval and a recommendation
to the board of zoning and planning for
a certificate of appropriateness to
demolish the existing deck and
rebuild replace the walkway with
concrete and build a gabled covered roof
from the garage to the home
is the applicant here for
that thank you and can you be sworn in
please uh can you state your name and
address
please your address is fine business is
fine if you swear affirm the testimony
you give this evening will be the truth
thank
you okay sorry um this apption is before
the board for the first time uh this is
an unusual case that the um applicant is
Desiring to have a covered walkway from
the garage to the um primary
structure um I I I've actually spoke to
the applicant I haven't spoke to the
owner but I spoke to the applicant and I
believe the designer as well you're
right if I first spoke
with correct and then um we had a nice
conversation so none of this should come
as a surprise to you but I'm I'm going
to fill the board in and just kind of
summarize um our our conversation um I
as staff I can't um recommend a covered
gable roof um that connects these two
because it creates one big primary
structure and um that while that's a
zoning issue and there are cases where
zoning has approved a connection it is
more typically with more of a garden
structure like a trellis or some kind of
a um a less um building like roof
because the worry that we have as staff
uh is that this is uh primed to just be
filled in on the sides regardless of how
it's built it would be an easy structure
for any owner current or um in the
future to want to to want to complete to
complete that enclosure and we don't
want to encourage that I put a um aerial
um from Google Earth up on the in the
staff report it's up on the screen that
shows that that's just out of character
for the neighbor Hood this is just a
very typical house in this neighborhood
where um in this area where the detached
garage is separate and continues to be
detached from the primary structure we
did take I do however always try to help
the applicant try to achieve the goals
that they're looking for um and we did
talk a little bit about how as as a
staff um as staff that is reviewing this
case I could completely get behind doing
a fully covered um roof over the dep
Deck Over the new deck and have it stop
there I also think it would be helpful
with the elevation change to the garage
to maybe then put a a more tenuous
structure like an a a um it's more
permeable at the top I know but you
could do a like a trellis structure that
maybe had some vines that you could grow
over it or something like that so we we
talked a lot about it um I did prepare
the applicant that um the zoning would
be really hard to achieve on the way
it's proposed
and that I um could I could support
either tbling this case to come back
with a different design that is more in
line with um the way you know the the
the um idea that I just described or
that we could go ahead and move it to
zoning to even see what the temperature
is at zoning um if the applicant or the
owner did not like really felt strongly
about not changing it so that's kind of
where my discussion was with the
applicant and my
recommendation that is what I
have so can I um just you're the person
that would be building it is that so
I gotcha and so have you talked to the
applicant the owner of the house to know
like what how this design came about
yeah so actually I was on a second visit
to her
home contract was actually
assed I've done a lot of work
in um and so you know I kind of told her
I said we will probably have to maybe do
some modifications it's going to
have but tell me what you would like to
achieve and we'll start there and see
where we can get to from that point so
can you just let the board know what was
the goal the goal was to give her could
you push the button P the button
on thank you thanks sorry about that
screen now
okay sorry um so her goal was to have a
covered walkway from the home to the
garage um so that when it's raining
snowing that she can get out to her car
um and not slip and
fall um and also I think she has pets
she said something about her dogs uh so
I said we can put it together as it
being attached at both ends um and she
does have a deck now that's raised above
the ground probably about yay high and
then it's going to be another 8 foot
above that so it would probably jog a
little bit going down
um it wouldn't look like a shed or
something that you could just easily
fill in with walls and I said well maybe
they'll ask us to put Arches from the
post up to the beams or something so
that it's not just square that you could
frame out put into walls it make it out
of something that is like maybe Cedar um
to make it more outdoorsy you know
Atrium kind of looking effect my thing
is is that I'm kind of trying to figure
out what you're going to allow me to do
what you're not going to allow me to do
so that I can modify it and then go back
to her with that and present it to her
um we could do even if we were allowed
to do a solid roof we could not detach
it at the house over the garage which
would separated it so it's not
a an attached structure and again you
know just use 6X sixes for the post and
the same thing with the beam but give
her an actual roof that stops the water
Karen can you explain why this has to go
to Bap what what rule is this breaking
that it has to go to Bap rather than
just in front of it would need a
variance because once you attach that
structure to both the primary house and
the garage it becomes one whole primary
structure so it would need um a rear
yard setback variance what if we didn't
attach it that we did like you said
would need that huh I'm sorry go ahead I
was going to say what if we put the
cover over the deck like you explained
and then off of where the steps were
that came off of the deck that we just
put a covered Breezeway it that wasn't
attached to either structure then you
wouldn't be going to
beap okay but that's a different design
to
go is easier we would prefer that you
not because we'd prefer that you not
have a variance right I agree
um I'm all about simple but even
architecturally that kind of goes along
with our discussion like that could be a
result of making a better architectural
solution
um exactly to your point you wouldn't
have to if it's not attach do you want
to speak to I just I would need to check
the accessory structure code just to be
sure because then at that point it's
multiple accessory structures in the
backyard the rear you'd have the garage
and you'd have
the oh for area variance yeah yeah I
mean we'd have to do some checking to
make sure because it's a small lot like
it was a really big lot I could off the
top of my head probably say it's not
going to be a problem but it's likely
not going to be a problem we'd still
have to check all the numbers then again
it'll be a narrow walkway it's not 10
feet wide it's only going to be like
three or four foot wide with just the
very top of it being covered this side's
open so okay if you're okay with that I
think we'll go to board members because
I think they're gonna have some great
ideas to help absolutely 100% yeah
getting anybody is here now um no is
there anyone else in the audience that
wants to speak about this
application okay we'll go straight to
board members then is there a board
member that would like to go
first sure Mr
Scott uh couple questions
um one I think just with the drawings um
your floor plan shows like
foundations uh you're putting on a new
deck you are demoing the existing deck
yeah we're GNA Yeah it's red are you
demoing the existing extension off the
back of that house that has the little
flat shed roof and Gable so there's only
a partial shed roof very small and we
would like to extend it to the corner of
the
house all the way down okay uh so I
think my my it was took me a while to
kind of figure this out and and in
Parton if you go to the floor plan your
floor plan graphically just shows the
house straight across or at least it
doesn't go far enough to pick up the the
change in the the facade of where the
door is I'm assuming the door is lined
up where your covered walkway
is is that true so if you were to walk
from the garage to the house is that
covered walkway going right into the
house door yes so she has a weird shaped
deck there now and we were going to
actually BR build her a rectangular one
and I believe that it was lined up my
only statement is that if you look at
the the way the house Print Works it
actually jogs because the door where the
door is it's it's it's an addition to
the
house and in the plan is just showing it
as straight across so I was confused at
first that there was a demolition of the
existing you go to the photograph no on
the house itself itself we were not
going to demo anything if you're facing
the back of the house on the right hand
side is a bay window if you see where
that roof is to the left of the bay
window we were just going to run it
straight across to the left yes so my my
concern just I'm trying to figure this
out is the house actually has an
addition it jogs out at the bay window
right but it's not represented in your
plan so it was just a little confusing
to me oh the bay window wasn't
represented in yeah that's I get it
that's okay but I think that's something
that you'll need to look at um you know
there's there's nothing nothing wrong
with doing a covered
attached roof off of your garage and
extending it out that's a design issue
if you come out two feet or 10 feet and
then there's nothing wrong with covering
a back deck that's attached or porch
roof to your house they're not touching
their separate structures yeah you'd
have to ask what if there's a Code about
proximity of those structures but I
don't know if there is yeah there is
there is yeah there is 10 feet it can be
lessened if the if the co fire cat is me
so so there's there's I'm there's
nuances to this that there you talking
about building a roof coming off of the
garage to a certain point you're coming
from way comeing the other but you don't
touch um and somebody said they have to
be 10 foot apart yeah any uh accessory
structures have to be 10 feet from the
primary structure on the
property I'm just not for sure what I
could build coming off of the garage how
far out I could actually build a roof it
would just be like like what I'm wanting
to build from both sides just come out
like eight foot maybe again I think
those are some options or it's a trellis
that gives you some protection
um yeah that's not up you know so I
think there's plenty of options I think
the the other thing that I
would would want to see more detail on
is is your elevations and the details of
your columns and how
the either the porch roof or your
trellis is actually put together
currently the the drawings are fairly
basic and and and to me I'm I'm I
question how they're actually getting
put together because your I think your
your your detail page the wall sections
the foundation the stair and your deck
Ledger are standard details that I think
you use on multiple projects
specifically your wall
section doesn't align with your
elevation uh you you have this beam that
runs up above your your sopit and your
fascia but in your elevation your
columns are coming up and hitting a beam
that's hit below your fascia can we have
that put up on a screen I I can't see
what you're
talking which which um can you do
both so here your columns come up and
hit a horizontal band that looks like a
beam okay your facia and gutter sit
above that yes and if you go to the next
page top left detail your raor is coming
down sitting on on the beam that the
column is hitting and then your fascia
is lower than that horizontal uh beam
and your sofits there and there's
nothing below that but post so the
elevation isn't representative of that
detail the so we are going to see this
detail again um so I think it's just I
think it's a standard detail in your
library that it probably is a Cann
detail yeah um it looks like it's a
bird's mouth rafter sitting on top of a
beam that uh just has the sof running
straight back I think I would be
interested in I mean this doesn't have
to be an ornate structure and we
certainly wouldn't The Columns don't
have to be ornate right but I think the
details of those are important one they
need to kind of match the existing house
yeah so I would think that we probably
are putting sofit on it that was a good
for you to point that out to me because
it's not a house uh well you you
wouldn't put you yeah I don't know what
you're doing basically you're saying you
here you're covering the bottom side of
the rafters and then you're enclosing
the S and Bening it and uh yeah there's
nothing against the post prob more than
you need but that that sofit would
actually go for me it's it's just trying
to get into a set of drawings that
represents what's going to happen I know
you have to another go around of design
um yeah we can pull the sofit out for
sure 100%
uh well I I don't I don't as a design C
I don't have an issue with the soffet I
think it's the issue of how your your
structure works and how it engages the
the the end up being a trellis or
whatever structure it is uh and making
sure that those kind of work together uh
and I think for us we need to see those
details working and here I think it's a
little bit U coming from a kit aparts on
projects and you're pasting it in here
into these drawings just to try to
satisfy a little bit of how it might be
constructed but it doesn't represent the
design
okay uh that's all I have to say thank
you
thanks I was just looking at the map
here in
South I just live a couple blocks away
oh
okay I guess
so on the the idea
of I mean I agree with what uh Mr Scott
is saying about the drawings aren't
driving with what we what your intent is
here the drawings don't reflect the
higher house to the lower garage they're
showing the equal and the roof comes
over equal and all that um which I know
you'll revise but um uh why not create
think of it like a like a porch off of
the garage you can create a covered
porch off the garage could be a Gable
form it could have you know your your
your peers and then you build a porch
over the new
deck and the proximity of those they're
10 feet apart but the amenity of having
this porch at the garage might be
beneficial for the pets or you know even
in resale to have something like that
would be I think it would be great um
and the same thing with the deck you
reorient the deck you make it safer you
have it covered and they're 10 feet
apart I mean it seems that would be to
your to to your client's
benefit so it seems to me that it's
probably going to be the way that I need
to go is to build a studio roof over the
deck maybe do a gable roof coming off
the garage and possibly doing like a
trellis in between the two
free
standing yeah I mean or Pera also think
about the weather I mean if you're 10
feet apart from one porch to another how
much how much weather is really going to
affect that 10 feet you know if it's
down if it's a downpour okay you know
but
otherwise uh you're not g you you're
gonna have wind that's going to bring
snow and all that but it's such an it's
such a small area to have to deal with
yeah I I don't know that you need to I
don't know that you really need to
connect the buildings unless there was
some like if there were if there was
some metal structure that you know
conveyed people on a who were
handicapped or something like that where
it had to be protected but this to me at
that point is is more of it's It's a
convenience convenience but
architecturally and Zoning code wise I
just I don't think it's going to fly I
would just try to convince them to have
the two and keep them
apart and I don't think we can determine
what the zoning board is going to say
but we can help you design-wise you know
if you want if your client still is
determined to have a tral lesson between
the two you can still take it to zoning
that's going to be a better shot than
having a right a roof a gabled roof yeah
and having the drawings show accurately
what you want to do is going to be to
your benefit too because these drawings
right now as Mr Scott indicated they
don't reflect what's what the
photographs indicate and so Bap is going
to react to that as well so update these
revise the design and then right so if I
have to do the if I
do um a covered roof off the garage and
a covered roof over the deck do I still
have to go to
Bap we can't determine that here we have
to have your new design and then Matt
will look at it for zoning did you want
to speak to oh and then Matt is zoning
yeah yeah I think we talked before on
other projects Pro probably um we so it
to me okay when you when you have what
you want to do and then I can direct you
in the right to the right place well see
and that's why I came today I had to
sell her what she wanted and then come
back and see what modifications we have
to do in order to get it to go through
he can also give you guidelines to help
you stay out of B app so abolutely just
contact Matt after the meeting he can
tell you what square footage you can
cover and and keep you so we can design
around not having to go to B app well I
simply last comment and I'll pass it on
to other members is just to go to the
architecture Review Board website and we
have design guidelines in there just to
educate your client on you know how city
of Bexley is looking to do additions and
looking to you know for detail you know
special details things that are
important for the for the city of beex
keeping its character so go through
those and in the process of redesigning
and they're very easily accessible now
we have updated the website so well I do
a lot of work in Columbus and Victorian
Village German Village I'm very used to
this and I'm sure she's going to want
80% of something rather than 100% of
nothing
so sure we'll find some common
ground Mr Hall you want to go next all
right so um PTO on the comments that
you've already heard I think you have a
an amazing opportunity here to be
creative with something I think I think
one thing you we need is an accurate
sight plan this covered walkway is going
to if I read the sketch site plan um
here in the back correctly it looks like
it's dissecting right down through the
middle of the yard so to have something
that has a little bit of Mass to it a
solid roof is going to it's really going
to put a separation between one side and
the other so um the owner needs to
recognize that if that's okay or not
okay I
think
um expanding I I think it's it's kind of
a simple solution um I think if you put
a trellis likee structure over the
entire porch um whether it has a roof on
it or not it can be a single slope with
with you know a little bit of a metal
roof on it or something I think that
that could be explored with an open
trellis that's not connected to the
porch or to the garage extending between
the two yeah um and just be a very light
elegant structure um and then it doesn't
necessarily divide one side of the yard
to the other um and then the paving that
you use along there um you know could be
brick pavers could be concrete um but
even exploring you know some creative
materials to use there um I I've got
grave concerns about just this gable
roof that's going between the two and
then these little small supporting it
and everything and how that's really
going to uh come off and whether it's
going to truly be successful or not so
um so I I would take you kind of go back
and explore it a little bit more from a
you know creatively um and you know the
I I think what would help is um covering
the entire you know Deck with something
whether it's a shade structure trellis
per you know perula whatever term you
want to use um I think that would help
and then whatever is connecting them can
be part of that same family um and it
doesn't necessarily have to be connected
so that's my thought okay thank
you Mr
calhon um I I don't have anything to add
comment wise uh that hasn't been
addressed already I I think that when
you draw um the house accurately on the
elevations as well as the door placement
the man door placement on the garage
you're going to start to notice some
things that don't quite line up with
what you intended at least originally um
that that that walkway wouldn't line up
with the man door on the house or the
one on the garage so I think that they
initially thought it was going to jog
down right that's not shown in the
drawings so you're correct
uh excuse me
um yeah the elevations are totally
different um and it it is not
represented correctly in the drawings
but we will go back and uh make those
changes cool and and I agree
that a straight shot R from the house to
the garage is probably not going to work
for zoning or the architectural board uh
so I think what I'm going to do is I'm
going to go back and uh I'm going talk
with the homeowner and then we're going
to redraw it to where we bring the porch
roof out to the edge of the deck and
then build something off off of the
garage and then maybe do some sort of
pergola Arbor something in between the
uh the
two that's not fully enclosed on the
roof okay and I think she would be okay
with that we'll find
out Mr Calhoun are you done or did you I
am I apologize I didn't mean to cut
I um I don't have anything else to add
except I ask that when you do come back
can you do an accurate site plan because
not only does that drop off but it's
angled and so trying to do that gabled
roof at an angle I think I don't think
that what you drew would have actually
worked but um an accurate sight plan
will really help to see that how your
walkway you know can be like straight
from porch to porch but not from door to
door right that makes sense so and I
think that now that we're not going to
try and do that one shot that it's they
will be jogged and on different an
elevation yes yes but if
you you're doing a porch roof that
connecting trellis can slide over to the
door of the garage so you know I
wouldn't angle it just to I would just
think about how you move the kit aparts
I think this what I'm going do is I'm
I'm G lay the first two out and then
figure out how to connect dat to be well
but if you put a roof over the porch
back deck now you can just connect to
just go straight out and then it's done
because you're getting so wherever we
put the steps coming I I don't thinking
at an angle if you can't connect and
well I think that we would be able to
actually move the steps on the back of
the deck anywhere we want so that it
could line up with the garage okay yep
okay great so it sounds like we will
table you to next month is that okay
yeah um is there a board member that
will make a motion to table this
application let's table it to March 13th
yes
2025 uh so moved
higher second Scott
Mr Hall yes Mr Calhoun yes Mr Scott yes
Mr hire chairwoman Tony yes thank you
okay thank you so much we'll see you
back next for your time we'll see you
next month thank
you okay our next order of new business
is application Bap 25-2 the address is
405 North cassingham the applicant is
Blake Floyd the owner is to Toby fagel
and Sally Robert Fitch the applicant is
Seeking a recommendation to the board of
zoning and planning for a certificate of
appropriateness to build a front porch
addition if the variance is approved at
Bap this application will move to
council for approval to build in the
right of way is the applicant
present please come forward and get
sporn
in uh since your name and address please
Blake Floyd 4895 West Jefferson kville
Road London Ohio do you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I do thank
you okay this application is before us
for the first time in front of this
board it's complicated because the way
that this house is cited and Matt you
can speak to any of this please just cut
me off if you'd like um it will need a
recommendation to go to Bap and then Bap
will need a recommendation to go to City
Council um and and we don't need to get
into this but I just want to set the
whole picture for all of you and that
that at city council they will need a um
uh release because it'll be oh no we're
not in the RightWay anymore
just overhang is um hold armless consent
hold armless so if anybody has any
question about that Matt can answer but
um we'll just be here we're just talking
about the um the
architecture um I I have no issue all
about putting a front porch on this you
covering over the front of this house um
I think it's something that you know
most owners want to have um I've worked
with the applicant that this was first
applied for as an ARB application
because there didn't was not an
understanding about the um variance
needed and the hold harmless it needed
so um I've worked with the applicant
back and forth on updating drawings
which were not correct at first the
house was drawn incorrectly and you know
I still think there's a little ways to
go on the design um uh there are I'm
going to go to the staff report for a
second on the original application well
I wanted to show you this the house um
in the in context which I don't believe
there were photographs that were
submitted on the second application but
doesn't really matter I put them into
the staff report so everybody can kind
of understand how the sidewalk Works how
the um Stone Wall Works how their Grass
Works how how the public RightWay works
and we don't have a good drawing of that
we've talked I talked to you today
didn't I or yesterday Yer the site plan
to to to to make sure that you that
Blake understands that is Blake correct
correct yes um that we're going to
really need that for both zoning and for
um for city council I was hoping to have
it for today but I know that was a I
tried you tried okay um but I think
that's really critical and that's what
one piece of information that we don't
have here is the um is the site plan
that really shows kind of where the
columns land in relationship to the
sidewalk and the grass and the wall
putting aside all the variant stuff
that's needed in the and the hold
harmless I still think architecturally
we need to understand how this sits in
relationship to that little stone wall
that's in front and to the sidewalk you
are you changing the sidewalk at all no
so pretty much uh I guess related to the
pictures the way that uh this is this
sidewalk is what I'm talking about yeah
so really um the it would come off the
house you know where the stairs are for
the existing concrete um it would be
roughly three more feet so it's going to
come pretty much it's going to split the
sidewalk in half so it's going to land
right on the sidewalk in the middle of
it but you're keeping the sidewalk where
it is yeah so what it is is actually um
from so you can see where the Gable is
you know that's how wide we're going to
make the deck and the the port how we're
playing on it uh so right there pretty
much from the left part of the Gable to
the house all of that concrete is
getting tore out so she's only going to
have a walkway from her driveway to the
deck because that's where her I see what
you're saying yes okay so to the point
that's not clear without drawings um
actually there's the updated yeah I also
wanted to show the board this not that
it matters here or there except it kind
of does because when we talk about the
style of it I do think you were planning
on doing Cedar correct uh correct and I
do think the cedar would look better now
that it's blue than if it was white but
that's just a subjective comment um but
I think there's some issues about um the
eaves and um how the um treatment of the
plans are that need to match the
existing house as well but my bigger
concern right now is just understanding
in where this Falls in relation to the
site plan yeah um there also are
um and I'm sure you probably want to
talk about this for a second um I did
cut kind of cut and paste into my staff
report the previous design the overhang
seemed to be kind of proportionally more
correct but I think you wanted more yes
so um previous design which you guys can
see um we was going so long story short
the the
issue that we've you know met we've
talked to him plenty of times is she's
on a corner lot so the city right away
she technically only owns 5.6 feet off
of her house well she's wanting her
covered Porche to be like a standard you
know 8 foot off the house by you know a
15 foot wide to match the existing kind
of gable that's there so as you can see
on the previous design we just kind of
had it as you know hey it's going to be
8 foot There It Is Well after kind of
speaking with Matt we would kind of
Bounce some ideas off one another um
just to try to help with the council
part of the uh I think zoning is who uh
would be like the next meeting or
whatever um we was trying to keep pretty
much as you guys can see the footer you
know the post you know that would hold
up is actually going to be in the ground
it would be into the RightWay on the
right hand side so what I did was we
changed it on the leftand side to where
the post would be in her property out of
the RightWay and the deck would just
candle or hang over um it pretty much be
floating you know so it's not actually
in the
rideway so I wanted to include that
because I think for any of you that
looked at what was posted three weeks
ago you might be a little confused so
that that's the update and that's the
reason that it is now the columns are
inset correct we just triy to help with
the the the the zoning portion I guess
so um let me see what else I have and
then I'll leave it let the link to the
board um th those are my concerns I mean
I I have some concerns about the design
um just making sure that um the details
of it match the details of the house I
do agree that the columns can be simple
but you know you may want to um I'm
happy to work with the applicant on
beefing up the columns a little bit
um I'm gonna hand it over to you
guys okay is there a board member that
would like to go first
I'll go
first can I ask who drew these drawings
for the for the porch uh who did the
draw who did who drafted these drawings
so my architect did your architect did
yes there's no name on here of your
architect is there not there's nothing
okay they look exactly like the last
application the same architect so I
think he does use my same architect
which is funny so when I was talking to
him when I started seeing his when I
started seeing his drawings I was like
looks a whole lot like Kevin and the
guy's name's Kevin architect that's why
I started this yeah he doesn't have a
title block or anything that you know
there's no indication of who the
architect
is or address or anything
yeah and I mean I'm sure there's an app
out there where you can do this you know
and draw it up somebody could draw it up
there's no place for you know a stamp so
anybody could do a drawing like this
with a with an app yeah I mean heck
we're on the verge of AI for
architecture I am not good with
technology so so pretty details are the
same as what we saw in the last
application for a
porch it the way I see it you know if
this was a back deck like the last
application I wouldn't be
as
um critical about the details you know
but this is a front porch correct the
way it's been detailed in these drawings
is not for a front
porch the the house has a certain amount
of character it has proportions to
Windows it's got siding it's got
shutters um it's got details you know
for the Gable the front all of that and
the way that this porch should gauge
that is respecting that that means using
real columns or real peers that have
some character to them instead of just
4x4s with you know wrapped
you know trim at the top and bottom
things like that so the uh it's actually
they're they're six by we're using six
by sixes yeah and then C them with a 1x6
uh Cedar yeah it's but it doesn't do
anything for the character of the here
just by wrapping it with the cedar it
doesn't have any doesn't have any you
know the base and the the cap of this
pier are exactly the same that's not
architecture we're not there yet so you
have to look at the detail of the house
and think about your architect should
really be thinking about what could make
this house more beautiful and not just
more functional for getting this large
porch because what you've drawn doesn't
match the house in my opinion yet um I
would also think that if you designed if
your architect designed a beautiful
front porch that maybe had white columns
and a beautiful Gable um and it's stuck
out 8 feet that you go to the Z zoning
board and they would say that's a
beautiful porch you're good instead of
trying to do the canal lever and all of
that you know hanging out over the peers
it's just it's not it's not a solution
for a Bexley house to do this on
especially on the front so I would
encourage you to tell your architect to
look at the design guidelines which we
have on our website it's really
important that Architects get familiar
with this and rethink this because I
just don't I could I could not vote for
this as is or even if you refined it
with the same details I just couldn't go
for this so um don't take me the wrong
way at all here I'm just trying to
understand like what do you mean so I
could I mean I build you know like we
all together we do about 30 to 40 houses
a year I build whole houses you know and
I'm just like I told him I've never ever
had issues like I've had here you know
for a porch and I'm like you know what
we like I'm just trying to understand
how you guys like what do you mean you
know what I mean I guess this because
like this is I've never had any issues
with how many of those houses did you do
a like a back back with a as a front
porch oh all of them they all typically
have front porches and deck wood deck as
a front porch yes but in what in what
cities uh so not here we're a different
animal that's why I said you know that's
why I said I'm trying to like drive
around and see yeah that's why I'm I'm
really happy to that's why I asked if
you could give me the name of the
architect when we spoke we've kind of
been down this discussion and you know I
wanted that's why I wanted to talk to
the architect because and you know
reference because I I'm assuming you're
not going to take these drawings and do
and and redo them to what your architect
is oh yeah yeah I don't I don't do this
yeah this is this he kind of that's why
I kind of want to talk to him okay or
her I don't even know Kevin and Kevin
yeah you still don't know um and just
you know talk about those kind of
details and refer him to the design
guidelines that we have on the website
um so
and and just to be clear I don't
think and I don't want to confuse the
problem so I don't think you can just
make it an eight foot take the columns
out to eight feet because I think that's
going to be way harder and I think
Matt's been guiding you on this to get a
hold harmless from from city council so
that is an issue maybe you need a six
foot porch instead of an8 foot porch um
if you want to yeah I think anything in
the right of way is uh really just
really difficult in general whether it's
above ground or below ground so I I you
know it's going to be and I let him know
and the homeowners it's not pill battle
for the whole thing yeah which is I mean
I'm not I I don't disagree that a very
pretty ports will have a better shot at
zoning but I just want to be clear we're
not saying go build an eight foot right
you know yeah I'm not not trying to say
that yeah that's what it sounded like I
apologize but um I my my biggest thing
here is that um I think it's to your
advantage regardless that you know if
when when you come before a board like
ours or Upper Arlington or Dublin um
that the kind of things that this board
is looking at is the character of the
all the elements on it the proportion
how it relates to the house um and just
read through the look through those
design guidelines and drive around
Bexley and you can see how porches are
done new ones you know the old ones it's
it's not this and so it's just it's just
a different kind of
environment yeah that's that's all I
have Mr Hall yeah I would um I would
advise you to get a structural engineer
involved because I understand the
foundation coming down and wanting to
put the column load directly on top of
that but this canal lever is not
significant in my mind that you could
probably pull the columns out on the
porch it's only the foundations that's
got to set back right right well all of
it has to set back so but he's he's got
the front edge of the porch coming out
so right so he still needs he still
needs to go for the front edge of the
porch right right but it's only becomes
an issue with the rideway if he's going
into the ground with it no it's it's
everything but the thought I think the
thought was that you know so how does
this how
this potentially if if there's a
sidewalk or if there's something that
the city has to come through and dig or
do something in the right of way
something underground is attached to the
structure I I mean they could cut off
the front of that porch if it were up in
the air right but that the whole rideway
extends all the way up so is
that okay well what I was going to say
is that and I I don't think I quite
understand what he's being pushed here
to do because if the idea is is the the
stay out of the right away in the
ground but if you're floating above the
right away then that seems to be a
little more
acceptable
so yeah I don't know that okay but
that's that's the path we're going down
here right either way you need a consent
arm kind of experience huh your
experience I would I don't think you're
going to be able to to build in the
right away I I just you know that to me
that is a that is an effort in a half
and me and Matt have both kind of told
the homeowner and she's kind of like
that's what she wants and if she can't
have that then she don't want nothing at
all so oh uh I I've seen this situation
a couple of times in my tenure for 25
years here yeah it's just not something
that H that happens because it it's
asking you know it's it's putting a lot
of liability on the city and on the
owner and yeah it's just
I think whether you're floating above
the RightWay or in the ground in the
RightWay it's still an issue right it is
okay it is we was just kind of like we
it was just bouncing ideas off one
another just trying to help with the
next steps you know where we're not
actually in the ground you know it's not
actually you know but I was if you're
not in the ground it goes against what
Matt just said that you can't come in
and just slice the front of this porch
off and get into the ground in front of
it if based on what I was saying come
out from the house pull the columns out
put a skirt or something around the
bottom of this so they don't see where
the bearing is and which we planned on
skirting it right which kind of helps
with this oddl looking condition that
you have um you know with the canle
lever I think the columns are need to be
addressed um they're they're they're
small almost like um toothpicks when you
look at this whole thing and the can
lever is not helping that and so um
there there is a lot of work to be done
with this and then the standard details
that are below you know there's three
steps shown on the stairs there's two I
guess there and then there's a railing
detail that I'm not sure if there's a
railing going all the way around this
there's not in the drawing it shows like
you know not required it's just part
yeah you know there's there's a lot of
things to work out from a design
perspective and um I'm going to build on
it'd be there has to be vast
improvements for this to to get to get
approved from from my perspect
perspective to get my vote um it just
doesn't meet the the guidelines that
that have been established here in
Bexley and um but I think you know go
back and kind of explore some of that
and I think you can get there I I think
this RightWay thing needs to be sorted
out um because I think this Canever
piece this idea architecturally is going
to take some significant
creativity to you know to really
understand yeah
so that's it thank you Mr
Kone um the only thing I would have to
add uh aside from what my colleagues
have already mentioned um is is really
to Echo Mr H's statements about it it
just does not feel like a front porch in
Bexley um it feels like it could be a
back
patio with a fence around it that is not
that visible but with how prominent this
house is on the corner it's screaming
for something that feels like a front
porch this does not um and and I think
there are plenty of examples um again I
think maybe a drive around
Bexley will you'll you'll pretty quickly
see oh that could look nice something
along those
lines stone column something bigger with
the wood um the openness and the um that
dividing of the beams and stuff in the
top that that um just doesn't feel like
front por so I I think there's um some
design opportunities here to really make
this uh even if it's smaller than what
is wanted um to really make it feel like
a nice front porch so if I add if I
could add anything um so I actually I
totally understand and agree with what
all of you have said so keep in mind too
as well is it's um a lot of this was
like literally the homeowner sent me
what she wanted and I just am giving her
what she wanted you know what I mean I'm
just trying to make this you know and a
lot of it is to budget you know this is
what she could afford you know this was
and she found this
on somewhere and sent me and said hey
this is what I want and that that's what
she wants the open you know the open
look with the cedar you know so we're
just kind of you know not that I was
trying to you know disrespect Vex ley's
you know this is just literally what the
homeowner wanted you know so I and I
completely understand that because she
may have assembled a Pinterest interest
board and said oh I I've collected six
items six pictures this looks nice what
can you do with this correct and then
and so so I think maybe uh going to your
architect and then either coming up with
something and going back to her and
saying listen what you wanted is not
going to fly and here's why however what
we have come up with is something that
we think may work right what do you
think of this okay so I think that's
probably a better discussion to have
with the clients yeah agree so one other
comment I'm sorry um but you know one
thing maybe to explore and it's just
going to bring
more um money to the project but you
could the front entrance be swung around
in on Columbus
Avenue you're saying uh could you build
a porch facing Columbus Avenue I don't
know the floor plan of the house and
then and bring the entrance to the house
off on on the face of the building to
align with stuff going down the other
side of the streets so we've talked
about then you stay out of the RightWay
I don't know yeah on that side of the
house of as of now it's just a wall
there's nothing um yes I guess in an
essence you know could
we add you know an entry way over there
uh more money absolutely can we do it
absolutely if it gets approved but you
know that is something that me and Matt
have discussed though that he would like
he said would have
a much better uh guarantee of you know
getting approved just because of the
rideway and everything else so uh that
has in the discussion yes
yes Mr
Scott uh yeah I
uh yeah don't build in the right away
it's anything that goes even here in the
air is at full at risk of the owner they
could come in and put a sidewalk in a
widen the street water lines and they'll
rip down what they have to rip down and
it's her responsibility to put it back
so it's which she said you know it's not
an option I don't think it's an option
yeah and that's kind of what I think
you'll get it approved so I think you
should stay out of the RightWay
completely I also don't couldn't support
the design the way it is um with the can
of Levering aspect of it I don't think
is appropriate I think it's
architecturally going to be very
difficult I don't think your architect
has at all thought about how this
structur is put together even looking at
the the the floor plan first floor on A1
he's got the columns which are really
peers against the side of the house with
the foundations going into the inside
face of the the wall which is not
possible possible uh he has a 2 by10 two
2 by10 beams running parallel to the
exterior facade which implies that it's
below the actual 2 by10 treated joist
for the deck uh but in elevation it's
it's all kind of in the same plane which
doesn't work uh so that that beam is
going to be at greater below uh which I
think is a problem I in full support of
having a a actual
stone CMU brick some sort of deck or
porch found
uh that this a wood deck could sit on
but you have a you have a solid base
that that it would uh be sitting on I
don't like decks as front porches and
beex I wouldn't be able to support that
I know this is a unique condition
because it's got two fronts but I you
know that conversation of looking at an
option of doing a front porch on the
other side of the house is a great idea
because that's would be very appropriate
yeah but there are many houses that have
front for down in South Bexley it's on
Charles maybe it's asra but they put a a
brand new porch long porch along the
side of the the house and that D it's
great okay I didn't think they have
right away issues there but that's uh
right that's what that's what they did
so it can work uh okay and I think uh
then I get to the elevations and
um you know I am confused with again the
details which I hinted to in the last
application that were the same in this
one at least three of the four um maybe
all four um I don't I don't see how the
with the The Columns being offset from
the edge of the Gable how this
structurally is supported at all I would
anticipate that there would be two beams
that would be coming out perpendicular
to the facade that the columns would
hold up and then they're holding up
Rafters that hold up the Gable in this
scenario you have a beam going across
between your outside columns and then
nothing's really holding up the Gable
but it looks like it's an open truss yes
it says open so is King truss Timber
truss maybe that's the end of that Gable
um but there's no indication how
anything else is is put together and I
think in the end would be radically
different than what you're showing your
architect is showing so I think there's
some dialing into those details when you
figure out what this is that yeah you
make sure you clearly
show um there is and I I printed some
out so these are directly from the
design guidelines there's actually
drawings and examples of what to do and
what not to do and things to look for um
and I actually printed out some like
heavy Timber King trust kind of gable
ends uh just to kind of show what that
structure would be but I don't think
it's appropriate to provide to you but
um I think there's just a lot here that
I think get the RightWay get your owner
to say okay if I'm not building the
RightWay what do you want to do you want
do the five feet which I think still
could be really nice yeah or move it to
the other side of the house if she's not
willing to do that I think the Project's
probably over which um which is part of
the reason like you know why I'm
definitely excited to be here today is
just to relay this information because
what you with what you just said I've
pretty much literally had that
conversation with her was like and it
sounds and you guys have been talking
about it that's great that you're
thinking about it we appreciate that so
yeah so I uh totally on Kevin Kevin has
if the decision with you know at a high
level with her is that okay I'll be
willing to stay within the rightaway
then you know explore this yes and I
think it could work I think you could
you know pull the Gable in get that
relationship right get the column
details right get the the base of the
the the front porch right I think it'd
be Fant fantastic sounds good thank
you okay I don't really have anything to
add I think they've covered it all so um
uh your options are then to table till
next month and go back to your architect
and see if he can look at the guidelines
and redraw something um it's your
decision to decide if you want to still
try to go for the right away but what I
hear is that this board is recommending
not to do that I think uh with what I've
learned today I'm going to
not do that and I'm just gonna have to
have a nice conversation with the
homeowner about her future options that
I believe is her options from what I've
heard today so sounds um and then maybe
go from there okay would you like to
table to next month or do you need more
time if you table to next month and then
you decide you can't get here in time
you can't get it done in time just
contact the office and they will move
you to the next month let's go ahead and
it at least like you said table and then
um if I can't then I we said was March
12th March 13th March 13th
okay and just so you know all of these
are recorded on our are available on
YouTube if you want to it may be helpful
to have the owner listen to the case so
she can hear she can hear you know some
of the ideas and the difficulty that we
feel it is okay um thank
you okay so is there a board member
um that wants to uh make a motion to
table this till March 13 so moved
Scott second
Calhoun R Mr Hall yes Mr Calhoun yes Mr
Scott yes Mr
hire no chairwoman Tony yes
okay we'll see you back here next month
and like I said if you can't make it
just let the office know and they'll
move you further on okay thank you thank
you so
much okay we will now go on to Old
business our first application in Old
business is Bap 24- 49 the address is
2300 Livingston the applicant is Bill
Downing and the owner is Bexley
Apartments LLC the applicant is seeking
architecture review an approval and a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish the existing
structure and build a new three-story
residential multif family
structure is the applicant
present please come up and be sworn
in you state your names and addresses
please for the record George tet 828
Vernon Road kin dri as Wells 211
Boulevard Beach do you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I do thank
you okay um yeah so I could read
something um so today I received an
email from uh Tim Madison regarding the
lack of public notice for the 2300
Livingston Avenue and 420 North Cassy
applications uh because these are Bap
applications which have been remanded
back to the architecture review board
from Bap and the Architectural Review
Board is not the final decision maker uh
decision making board on these
applications public notice is not
required as the applications have
already been noticed however because
this is a project with much Community
interests I recommend to the board that
after giving feedback to the applicants
tonight the application be tabled uh
until the March 13th meeting so that we
can mail out Public Notices tomorrow to
ensure the community has ample um
opportunity for input on the project
that's uh my staff recommendation to you
all just wanted to share
that thank you thank
you okay um so please come back
up I'm sorry that was just a little side
note um okay so I know you have made
some changes from the last meeting so
can you please go through and explain
the changes that you have made since the
last meeting do you want that slideshow
sure great yeah and maybe we'll do this
in two parts because I think there was
some feedback we heard that was maybe a
little more General in nature and um
relates to some of the discussions which
were held at the subsequent Bap meeting
so um I thought I could address those on
beh as the owner um oh by the way we
haven't met I'm George Tabit I'm from
the Community Builders I think you were
gone the last time everybody else I
assume remembers us and this is our
architect Kevin D as Wells um from RDL
so so uh yeah I'll just talk briefly
about the the bees app and I think some
of the questions that it addressed and
then let Kevin take over on all the
design stuff so we got to thank you and
can I just really quickly is this where
you want to start with this okay and I
would just like to say that I um in lie
of doing a like a design critique in my
staff report although I have plenty to
say and I will if you want me to but I
think the board is uh more qualified
than me um but in my staff report I did
um put and I know you've seen it put
together side by sides of everything
from last week because that was not part
of the packet nor does it required to be
but I think it's helpful so anytime that
anybody wants me to flip back to the
staff report to look at the changes
please let me know because it is in the
staff report
okay to the next slide um I think the
big a big part of the discussion in our
last appearance was around the uh first
floor residential and just questions
about the nature of first floor
residential at that um at that location
and so um I I might guess that many of
you saw the Bap meeting but for those of
you who may not have I think there was a
pretty robust discussion around uh that
topic and I think it was pretty um uh
convincing I mean I think we had a 61
vote um on uh in favor of the you of the
conditional use I think as part of that
vote there were extensive discussions
around safety and whether um the the the
the code requires that um Bap consider
eight different criteria um in granting
a a conditional use permit and it
requires the applicant prove to the
board that the the proposed proposal for
a conditional use won't compromise
health safety welfare or anything like
that so I just wanted to make the point
that I think that was heard and um
approved by the Bap um and then um I
think there was some really good
conversation too just around um
conformance with the Livingston plan and
I think the staff review was pretty um
unambiguous on that point that the use
is uh it is exactly what the the plan
calls for it is very much in line with
the Livingston Avenue plan I think there
were um directions to the uh the ARB
about you know resolving questions on
design and so forth which is his Bailey
Wick not
mine but I I just I thought it was
useful to um frame all those things in
terms of how
um the the bsap came down on on those
questions that came up here last time
and then um I think the other thing that
came up um was just a request um for a a
map of public parks if you could show
that I think it's going to you're going
to um get to it probably next I bet yeah
there we go that was the map that um was
requested to just show public parks in
proximity to um our site so we wanted to
make sure we followed up on that and
then um if there's no questions for me
I'll turn it over to our architect to
talk about the design
stuff I assumed so however you like
that's the one I just read yeah I start
I thought that's where you I heard
something oh he talked about 2300 so I
assumed that's where we
were great so uh we heard loud and clear
your your um comments and suggestions
and have made some pretty substantial
changes in a number of locations we
really tried to listen carefully and
respond to all of those um I think
everyone's familiar with the context
other than we are you know surrounded
with residential properties to the East
and the and the southeast um so we're
sort of in in line with that obviously
as we talked about last time we do have
strain site we have a minimum program
and yield that we need to meet into cing
certain unit types so that does Place
some limitations on it but we've really
moved some things around particularly at
the corner
um as George said the streetcape is very
consistent with that living
Avenue plan um I think the only
main variance is that the Livingston
Avenue plan I think called for eight to
10 feet for that walk we were showing
eight in conversation with Jason sui the
the planner who's Consulting and we
working on that we're we're willing to
certainly expand that to the 10 foot um
but you can see here in that plan or we
can go on to the floor plan uh that we
have done a little work to push and pull
a little bit in the floor plan which
will be evident in the elevations as we
as we get to
those un past that so just talking a
little bit about that that street
section and we've got a number of layers
working from the Livingston curb back
towards the building there's that
elevated planner which is straight out
of joint Livingston plan there's that
wider sidewalk we have a seating Zone
area and then a plant bed that can vary
in depth depending on where we are
relative to the ins and outs of the
building facade and we've now added some
elements at that ground floor including
that trellis that shows up in that um
section on the
left this is the proposed building
entrance uh as we get to the plans we'll
see but we've taken that corner unit
which and there were some questions
about the proportion of that we've
pulled that back and widened it so that
it has a much wider proportion when
viewed from across the street it sets
back and gives a little more room to
that front entrance uh we've taken that
front entry element which was previously
kind of continuation of the Francis
Avenue architecture and given an
identity that's really much more in
line with the character as you move on
to the west down the street matching
that same brick and really trying to
make it more of a transitional element
has gotten taller um it's got brick
Piers out there and then we've extended
that entry experience over that open
space with a Pergola and that pergula
continues in a in very similar character
as you go all the way down the street
there's kind of 100 feet of pergolin
trellis as you go down trying to bring
that down to a human
scale this is a view looking back the
other way we really wanted to show some
of the different elements and the
character we didn't really show you last
time what it feels like or looks like to
be on that sidewalk new thing since we
were there before again you can see that
we've pushed out the center of that bay
between the two endcaps we've added
those projecting trellises we're being
very intention about lighting to light
that first floor experience in the
evening uh added a tree guard type
element along the edge of the sidewalk
with the post in the chain which is an
element coming out of the Main Street
uh pattern
book we did want to address the question
of how this fits into the joint
Livingston plan and this is certainly
the page from that that kind of captures
that Street skap character although not
in this location but in the next slide
we did just as an
illustration drop in our project into
that streetcape this is obviously kind
of a
CR collage of that but and we know that
doesn't occur at this site but we did
want to at least show that you know that
that street skate character we don't
know what's going to happen across the
street that's out of our control uh but
this is how that that fits into that
living Street
scape the overall floor plan is in terms
of the number of units and their
Arrangement is fairly consistent but
again that corner we push that townhouse
type unit back we which you'll see in
the
elevation move
on there's that more distant View and so
we one of the concerns was about that
sloping roof as it had previously
continued down to the first floor we've
stopped it we've broken the pitch a
little bit to kind of create a more
graceful resting spot at the end uh
we've moved
that Gable Dormer which is is lighting
the the stair within that unit and
pulled it down um we have taken between
the two end caps as you've seen before
what was previously kind of continuous
expansive sighting we've pulled out that
middle elements changed some window
patterns we've introduced uh Julie
balcony railings have the living rooms
of all those second and third floor
units and there's a you looking from the
southwest
I think
that covers in General trying to that
that corner piece again that porch and
that elment above the porch we' had
previously had a brick Arch you can see
we've treated that differently we steep
the wall back a little bit so that we
really have three very similar units of
geometry we've expanded those third
floor uh window proportions at the top
anything else I think that covers the
primary
changes okay is there anyone in the
audience that is here to speak about
this
application please come forward and be
sworn
in state your name and address please
Stephanie Bosco 67 North cassingham you
swear affirm the testimony you give this
evening will be the truth yes thank you
Steph so I'm the secretary on the um
Bexley cic
and just wanted to come in and um talk a
little bit very short um about uh the
cic's support of this so in 2012 um as
part of the comprehensive plan there was
a goal for the cic to um enable some
more housing options and um and we feel
that the Community Builders is is uh
going to help us reach that goal there
was an RFI process and um after thorough
review the cic chose the Community
Builders um and I had a third
point it's been a long
day oh and about like the 420 North
Cassidy uh property yeah we aren't
speaking about that one okay yet well um
I you know we're we're thrilled to have
this design um I I especially love how
on the is it Francis side um it looks
like it's you know the townhouse design
um but we we have a lot of confidence in
the Community Builders and just wanted
to show a little bit of support for
thank you is there anyone else that
wants to speak about this application
please come
forward have more questions can can we
state your name and be sworn in Le
Turner 993
Francis um you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth yes I do thank you yeah I was
wondering if you could pull up the site
map I want to say I think the design is
much better um I appreciate you uh
pushing
for um you know something that is
compatible with the neighborhood I do
appreciate that um can you make it
bigger a bigger
piece that's yeah that one um my
questions are kind of about the
parking and a fencing that um that are
next to our property because you
probably can't tell but the whole
property line um currently it's all um
the same level of you know there's no
change in grade but as you go back in
the end of the property there's a big
grade difference and so when you see all
those cars s facing you know our
property um which is not very deep I
mean not very wide it is deep but um I
just have some concerns about our safety
on the other side especially when the
um say you know the level of the ground
is the is the same when it's different I
don't really have much of a problem and
currently um there's a tree and then the
grade almost to that second tree is
completely different right now there's a
garage and then the grade is is
completely different it's significantly
different so it adds an extra layer of
safety but when I look up here from that
tree in the middle of to
that um it's just all even and that's
where we come out of our house go into
our house
um and a lot of activity takes place in
that middle yard which is the same grade
so I can't see anything in the zoning
code um so I'm wondering you know what
remedies there are for us because right
now currently on the site the Woodards
had put like concrete um I don't know
what you call them pust or whatever all
around their own
home um and another thing with the
funeral home there when they parked
people come to a funeral back in and
they back in slowly I've seen it over
years and years years so now instead of
them backing in they're going to be you
know head in so if they make a mistake
on the gas pedal one little wood fence
and they're on our side quickly if
there's no other
change so this is more of a safety
concern than I'm saying you know it's
not you know it's I'm totally against
that I just think we need to think about
the safety of everyone um especially
right there and then something else I
noticed today that I didn't have a
chance to talk to George about was this
side doesn't appear to have a
fence only our side and then in the
front am I
[Music]
correct can the applicant come forward
and answer those questions
please on the on this side over here is
there a fence there there is a fence
closing off I just didn't see it on the
side map yeah no my understand there's
intended be a fence our our landscape
architect is not here but there is a
fence and can you describe the fence is
it just a wood fence like what we all
would have in our backyard yeah you can
see in the lower right corner it's an 8
foot fence because that's what the
zoning requires that that this
transition from the Livingston but
there's no extra structure or anything
in that that if a car would hit the gas
it as as as M Miss Turner mentioned
there is an existing retaining wall that
on that side as that end around this
and they intent is to try and maintain
that rework defense around that to the
other side where you were talking about
there is and there would be a a concrete
curve uh it is you know because we are
constrained by size it's a fairly
constrained s so it would be very
difficult to get up a head of speed
particular one that would let you mount
the curve go through that additional
space hit the fence um it's you know
you're making tight turn people are
frankly probably having to you know with
a larger vehicle have to you know
potentially have to go back and forth a
couple of times so that that that
is the condition okay thank
you um so my main concern is that um is
that part from the middle tree to the
sidewalk because you know we're out
there moving from front to back taking
care of our lawn and gardening and I
tell kind to Garden a lot so I'm always
out there and I want to know I'm going
to be safe I want to know my family's
going to be safe I want to know that my
grandchildren whenever they come would
be safe and I'm just not sure anyone can
feel comfortable with that part does
your driveway line up to that lot line
you're not showing it at all that's our
entire that's your driveway driveway
goes
to the garage I you can see the garage
right here
right there gotcha that's helpful thank
you yeah I think you really need to see
the whole
context now I really don't really the
back part you know we generally do
gardening and not much
activity okay um but we call it the
three yards the front the middle and the
back so in the middle we do a lot of
activity because it's a nicer
area so I would want to be protected and
I don't think you know I should have to
come up with something to protect
ourselves but I will if I have to and
I'm just wondering is there something we
can
do okay thank you is there anything else
yeah I was wondering if I what kind of
feedback I might get or well I have to
go through all board members and stuff
so we won't come up with an answer for
you right now but we've taken down your
concern and we will try to address it as
we proceed so thank you so much okay
thank you appreciate you
okay is there anyone else that in the
audience that would like to speak about
this
application okay I will go to board
members and is there a board member that
would like to go
first nobody's making it I'm picking Mr
Hall f
um I uh I don't have a lot of comments
other than say that I like the
improvements quite a bit I think it's
helped quite a bit um I think pulling
out that middle section on the big
building on the larger mass of the
building making that brick really helped
giving that some relief the uh the
imagery you provided about on the you
The Pedestrian way in front of it um
does show the soft edges of that and
everything um and I think the the
transition from the the town home um
elements to this what I think I referred
to in the last meeting of school I still
still not really
you know I I think there could be a much
better job to that I just look at that I
just see this big block of building with
a bunch of punched windows in it but I
get what you're trying to do so um and I
think it's much better than what was
here before and I think that transition
piece does help um with the transition
the massing and everything associated
with it
um I
would say that the you know there is a
you have this 8T you know wood fence
going around the perimeter and all it
takes is somebody slapping it in reverse
hitting you know the gas pedal and
slamming through it and I I don't think
PE you know I don't think it's realistic
to think that somebody's going to have
to go back and forth two or three times
to get through it I I really don't I I
don't see that as a justification for
for that I don't know if that would
occur or not but I I think with her
residence being next to it I I think
that that needs to be addressed and and
a quick CL clarification I I may not
have said this as clearly as I meant but
in addition to that fence there is a six
inch high p in place concrete curb at
the edge of that pavement yeah so how
often do you see cars that pull up in
front of a building and then all of a
sudden they're inside the building and
they never really were 20 feet away
getting 60 miles an hour to get in
that's my point they can jump the curb
and go through that fence and end up in
her sidey yard so I I think that needs
to have some structural Integrity to it
is my point I don't know what that is
but you know you all can figure that
out thank you Mr
khone uh I I I too certainly appreciate
the the design changes based on the
feedback that we gave last time um this
is a vast Improvement
um I also think that the that right
there thank you you you were reading my
mind that was that this is terribly
helpful because seeing one and then the
other but not just the basically the
patch of what it will look like in the
vision of this terribly
helpful um so uh kudos to that um I I
certainly also Echo the concerns about
safety for the neighbor um and I I think
there's probably some very easy
solutions that could be implemented
especially given the grade change in
that so I I don't see that as being a
big hurdle I just think it's something
that should definitely be addressed
um yeah I think that's that's about all
that I
have Mr H well thanks for all the
improvements um and thanks for the map
with the parks it's
great um
I appreciate a lot of the changes that
were made especially the connect piece
and the the way that you solved that
however there are some things that
still bother me about the design and
that's what we're here for um
particularly the Deep overhang uh
resolution of the sweeping roof you know
by cutting it
short um I feel like it just didn't it
didn't go where it needed to go um I
don't see Bexley character in that uh
deep overhang I I do appreciate that the
Dormer came down and your
three-dimensional rendering of it it
looks different than what's in your CAD
drawings um with the windows being way
up above and lots of white stuff
underneath them and that's not what's in
the
elevations but really it's it's just the
it's the way that that those brackets
that are overhanging the second floor
windows that whole Roof System just
looks unresolved and even in the model
if you zoom in the roof form it looks
like in the computer rendering you just
kind of filled in some stuff there to
get some kind of slope but I'm not sure
it doesn't look resolved um and I don't
like the way it crashes into your hip
roof of the brick one story addition
between the two buildings it just looks
unresolved and I think for Livingston
and especially with everything that
we're trying to do here on this uh and
everything we've been through to get
this moving that it's not there that
design is not there I can't support this
uh juncture um what I would suggest if
we could go to just the not the joint uh
plan view but the other view perspective
um the next one well now go back there's
another one just the main the main
threedimensional view of
that must be back at the beginning
I think you'll find it towards the end
I'm looking at the uh different it has
RDL in the
corner there that's the one okay so you
know I don't think we ever had any issue
with this this to me feels good I like
the porches I like you got rid of that
strange brick Arch thing uh that was
there just felt also sort of uncare
characteristic um these do feel a little
more beex like that's all about the
details at this point we don't want it
to look cheap so that's going to be a
lot of detail work with the design
consultant um I would really like to see
this again honestly because I'd like to
see those details uh you know expanded
and uh and and elaborated on but this
this is this is not
resolved and what I would suggest is
that you actually consider doing a Gable
form on this elevation not trying to
create this U you know dor or the sort
of bungalow style Dormer up here that
just feels it it feels very
strange um as strange as this the large
sweeping roof that you had before so if
this could turn into a three-story Gable
where it's not quite something like this
but you're turning the corner and now
you're starting to relate to to these
things even though you're going to have
clabbered you're going to have Gables
but all of this crashing um it feels uh
it it feels like I'm uh
um um I don't know it it feels like I'm
I'm at a a a shopping center where
they're they're trying different styles
that are all just pushed up against each
other this this is
unresolved the other thing that I think
needs to resolve and again I'm there's
only a couple things here because I I
think overall it's it's really come
together but if we could go to the other
view looking from
there this uh I really appreciate and
I'm very grateful that you put this
in um however what you've done is you've
created uh a building that does not
relate in my opinion to the rest of the
building in terms of fenestration in
terms of the the proportion of window to
wall
what I would do is simply double these
windows and double these windows just
like you have here that will help to get
more brick in between and work a little
more like this in terms of the wall to
to the window
openings and the fact that you have
doubled Windows here and doubled Windows
here will actually accentuate the view
or the the Eye being dri being drawn
from this
Wing to this Wing because this one
doesn't have a center window so it
really will help to relate this one this
one will will relate to here this will
bounce you over to here right now it
looks like a different piece of
architecture it looks like it's relating
to other things uh that aren't here
except for the cornice um this could be
a townhouse in Alexandria Virginia it
could be a townhouse in uh Victorian
Village or or Dublin but if you did this
year now you have Unity but you also
have you're breaking up all that clabber
and we we have that version and happy to
happy to happy to make that that change
it was done that was more a matter of
understanding your desire to try and
yeah break up that element so I really
appreciate that but this this thing down
here I just it really needs more work um
other than that to me it would be
getting into looking at Brick details
um you know headers um some of the sill
conditions where uh you know I think I
don't know if it's this one or if it's
the Cassidy one I think it's this one
where you have a brick detail very nice
that wraps but you also you kind of
double up the roock brick with a stone
sill you don't need to do that you know
if you can just have the brick wrap with
the roock you don't need to have the
extra cost of the stone if you can go to
the um wall sections or the elevations
in the the the blow up of the wall
section A
7.0 I have no issue with those um here
so here you have this lovely brick
detail wrapping but then you on top of
it you put a stone sill that is that's
odd it's it's more material than you
need for a a detail in a seal condition
either either you make this Stone this
this you know you transition from a
roock brick to a stone right and pull
this up a little bit so that it's right
under the window or you you know you
just eliminate the stone and get the
window down to the to the brick but the
two of them together doesn't make any
sense our our reason for doing that our
our our preference is to provide a
projecting drip that doesn't interfere
with the consistency of the brick
surround that's actually detail that the
Trinity seminary building actually has
exactly in that same well same manner I
think probably for that same reason so
you don't get that streaking of oil down
the Bri I don't think they wrap this
under the stone they do actually they do
actually okay well it's very odd to me
um this makes sense right here but it
seems to me that this brick would turn
and transition maybe into a projected
Stone but to have them on top of each
other but if if that's I mean if that's
what's over at Trinity it just seems odd
to me but um that is one of the details
that I was looking at but the cornice
you know um you know the alignment at
the top and the alignment at some point
here um I don't know if it's the
intention for all of it to a line but I
think in the drawing if you zoom in
there's there's a misalignment there of
some kind and I don't know if this is a
projected line so there's some places
where I'm looking at things that need to
be just refined and I'm not going to
spend a lot of time on that because uh
in my opinion that whole juncture of the
Francis Avenue building with the one
story still needs to be resolved D and I
would like to see this
again but that's you know when when we
do new builds like this especially of
this caliber um and we've there's a lot
of precedent for this where the board's
just not satisfied all the way and we
want we'd want you to come back we don't
want to we would I wouldn't want to just
leave that juncture to uh you and the
design consultant I think the board and
this and the public need to be able to
see that res Solution that's my that's
my opinion so that's that's all I
have and Mr
Scott uh I was really excited to see
this application come back um not not
the fact it was coming back we knew that
but what the changes and the work that
you did uh I really appreciate the
efforts that you put into it uh there's
a budget that you're trying to meet
because of of of the market that this is
and and the details that you're putting
into this building
um though I do agree a lot uh with Mr
hire's comments um and those are things
that we can work through and get get to
uh you know the level of detail and
quality that just in the renderings that
you're seeing even in the details that
if you zoom in even to the renderings
and then look at the cad drawings and
the elevations that you're adding to
this building is giving a level of
quality That You Don't See everywhere so
uh I really do value or respect the
value that you you're the effort that
you're putting into to the design uh I
really like the moves uh I appreciate I
think the last discussion we had was
productive I I the moves that you made
in Rel in relation to that I think have
been quite successful uh I do agree I
was a little less concerned now I've
seen a little bit more listening to Mr
hirers on the on the the change in the
the roof I didn't realize it it kicked
out a little bit at the end there my
biggest concern was that connector piece
and this kind of almost
maned uh roof that it's a little odd to
me um if that was flat that would kind
of maybe go away but that again because
it's a little bit more commercial then
so I think it's a connector piece it's
allowed to be a connector piece however
that works I think this is a little
stronger than it needs to be with that
roof I think if you don't need that
volume pull it down and then allow that
other roof to get resolved if it's I'm
not against um the deepness of the and
all the brackets is a little bit unique
and quirky and I think you know if you
can get the proportions to work I don't
think I'd be totally against that uh but
I do agree with maybe making the facade
s and that the the three-story kind of
Dormer elevation and it doesn't have to
be full it can come of step up as it
goes up but it becomes a little bit more
prominent on that facade I think is a
fantastic idea so I think that that you
have some opportunity there just to simp
maybe even simplify that
facade but other than that I think this
the S plan is strong I think your
connection to the this Corridor is is
going to catapult this area uh to to
that as an an example that we will point
to as other developers come and start
developing a living so I think that's
spot on your little trick of doing the
before and after in that perspective is
is great on the Livingston I think I
didn't catch that so uh seeing that
tonight was was pretty cool uh so I I
all across the board I'm in full support
of what you're doing I definitely sounds
like you're coming back especially from
the initial comment but also with Mr H's
comment I that think we need to see a
little bit more refinement just in this
corner but the other moves that you've
made and efforts that you've made are
commendable I think it's great good job
Mr
K I I don't have anything to add other
than what's been said already
so okay I do I'm sorry thank you I'm
gonna jump back is that okay no go ahead
I do want to address some of the
comments about safety I think um these
properties uh have fences built and
there's parking and people want to
owners will protect the fence so there's
parking blocks put in um Nothing Stops
all scenarios uh you could put a
concrete wall there that would stop that
and protect that but then we have have
an issue of sight uh you could do brick
but then that's deteriorates and has
challenges and there's balances so I
think you should be looking at that that
stretch maybe and what other things you
could do um adding ballards you might
not even have enough depth for that but
if you have ballards and now you have
these ugly ballards that are there so um
I I definitely think it's worth an
exploration but again we can't mandate
that you protect against every single
scenario so they are there is obviously
some activity that's right in as your
neighbor there and we respect that uh so
definitely would look at would
appreciate any further thought on that
area but as a as a board member you know
I'm not going to push you or make it a
condition that you have to build you
know concrete wall there to stop that I
think there's there's many other
measures that you can employ that will
help deter that uh because something
could come from the other direction and
it doesn't matter so uh people that live
along Livingston have those issues
already have neighbors and friends that
have had cars in their front yards so
it's a not dangerous Street's definitely
better because they've
kind of calm some of that traffic but um
definitely look at that and and
definitely interested to see what you
come back with some ideas on that but um
thank you
man um so I was not here last month but
I looked at the drawings and I I do
think you have improved it immensely I
have do have a problem with the
connector I I do think it looks like a
fast food restaurant stuck in between
the the two buildings and I don't like
the way that that it hits the roof lines
hit um the the the building here on the
side so I agree with all the comments
said there um can you pull up the um
it's like an elevation that shows the
road because in your elevations that
show the road you actually show the road
really high compared to your no I want
the one that they actually draw a
car yeah yeah the section
yes yes so that should I mean the way
drawing the car to the um sidewalk it
makes it seem like the cars are driving
at the same height or even here on the
Francis Road that the cars are driving
at a higher height than what the
sidewalk is is that I think that's just
a drafting issue I think that this is
the the Landscape Architects depiction I
think the crown is just maybe of the
street is a little more exaggerated than
it okay actually so we don't really have
that scenario we have the street down
and we have the the the the there is a
crown to the street where the crown at
the middle of the street probably is
higher than the curb but as any Street
yeah as drainage would would be the case
but it's a six inch curb and we don't or
you know whatever that existing height
is we don't have any intens of change in
that that relationship okay that just
seemed alarming to me that the way it
was drawn so okay um I have nothing else
from that oh I did have one other
comment um on the the tall uh
three-story building where it wraps
around and you have the connector link
was there there any consideration of
putting some brick detail or something
there that would have mimicked like some
small windows or something just on that
um that that high area up there I just
thought maybe some fake windows or
something in there that just gave you
some details would kind of make that
plain brick wall we we did look at that
and in the relationship with that
transition element roof as it currently
stands it kind of felt a little bit
squeezed but I I would
um ask if if the if other board members
have any feeling about Mr Scott's
suggestion uh which I think is a good
one to explore about maybe just removing
that sloped roof element would expose
more of that wall and might open up a
better opportunity to provide some brick
detailing on that wall I don't know if
anyone has yeah that similar reaction
that's a great idea yeah I would support
that I mean if if the parit is high
enough it'll help to hide equipment
you'd have more options for hiding
equipment um if you if you could have
Windows that wrapped even if even if you
didn't we could do what we explored at
North Cassidy which is that we would
have some kind of brick paneling or
something that gives some kind of
articulation to that facade yeah so and
we have some detailing on the west
elevation which we might consider some
version of transposing here if that roof
is
not is not there we're not able to add a
window unfortunately because of a fire
rating is it just seems to me that by
doing that and maybe raising the parit
um to hide equipment you you there's so
many opportunities there that can be
beneficial for you and for the layout
and for the equipment and for Windows
and for resolving this the you know the
the Francis Avenue building you know
without having this Clash so I yeah I
think a good idea we we're fortunate
that we don't have equipment to hide on
that top but um well then it becomes a
wor toop Terrace for the tenants there
you go little amenity good looking you
get into the property management
business I
say okay that's all I have
um so are we tbling this application to
next
month yeah I saw a thumbs up yes I would
like to make the motion that this be Ted
to next to March
13 second
call all the rooll Mr
Hall yes Mr scalon yes Mr hire yes Mr
Scott yes chairwoman Tony yes thank you
okay we will see this application back
next
month okay our last application for
tonight is beab 24-50 the address is 420
North Cassidy the applicant is Bill
Downing the owner is 420 North Cassidy
AB LLC the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish the existing
structure and build a new three-story
mixed use multif family residential
structure okay we do not need to swear
in because we are already sworn
in so if we if you would pull that one
up and go through the changes that
you've made from last month sure you the
the changes in the comments were were um
at a smaller and more refined scale
level in our responses are basically
that we've we've Incorporated them as at
least as best as we understood them
exactly as as they were suggested um we
can move through the the street
views we provide a little additional
detail on the intended pergola uh that's
at the corner of that South uh patio off
what would it was intended to be the
senior center uh intended to be stained
Cedar of some fairly large dimensions I
do want to note that these are the
renderings that you saw last few the
last time we were here we have not
updated these so those those refinements
and the details just didn't really to
show up it's a
we um but we have as we get to
two-dimensional
elevations um we
have taken the storefront where we had a
soldier course and extended that uh
around the window to frame that that
opening we're reverting back to the
previous detail we had had back in
2022 um the horizontal belt course had
been a single soldier course that's now
a triple Soldier course
we
have um I think that was really
primarily the changes on on these
elevations as you get to the next
page um just not notes those materials
but that's really fairly similar again
those same changes carried through with
that triple belt course coming around um
we did have on the left side of the East
Elevation we had a trim piece of was
kind of continuing the corness that was
deleted as someone had suggested and I
think that
simplification helps helps here to and
it's a secondary elevation that's not
particularly visible from from many
vantages beyond that there were some
requests that we provide details not
only of the pergola but of the the
trellis elements that are are growing
facing the parking lot and our wall
section
has some details of the intended awnings
uh which is a powder coated aluminum
frame with a fabric awning and that's
just a very simple slope with no free
swinging or rigid veilance there we also
did so I'm remember there is a comment
to extend the canopy an additional
amount and we we've done that as
well okay thank you is there anyone in
the audience that came to speak to about
this
application okay uh seeing no one we
will go straight to the board is there a
board member that would like to go first
sure Mr Scott uh great job I'm in
support of the
project is there a board member that
would like to go
next
more shortest one that is your shortest
uh I really appreciate the the detail uh
that you've added uh I love the triple
Soldier um I love the surrounds on the
Windows um really appreciate all that
work I think this is going to be a great
in the future you know with the with the
um the land use strategy plan for North
Cassidy that this will be a sort of
bellweather
um uh sort of example for for future
development up there that will be
similar to this um I was thinking about
that side elevation that we talked about
last time and you know doing all the ins
and outs just or doing some kind of
articulation in the future when there's
more of these up there you know the side
elevations are going to become less
prominent so I appreciate that um I
would just ask two things and I don't
think this would prevent a vote uh or
need a tabling it would be
simply um a um condition for me on
approval the first one's easy do not
please do not project your brick Soldier
headers on your windows over your
windows keep they should be flush with
the brick veneer um this this is a
strange uh I won't go into all the
history of these projected soldiers um
over windows but it stems from an old
Georgian look um particular in Virginia
and it somehow got translated into New
Albany and then all of a sudden
everybody started doing it and so you'll
see these things everywhere but it's
that is not the way you do a soldier uh
in Brick and you will note if you zoom
in on that elevation that they're noted
as okay okay great um the other thing is
the pre-cast concrete base um I don't
know anywhere in town where I've seen
that successfully done um they they
weather terribly um the soft joint
between the pre cast and the brick uh
goes bad very quickly um the Masons in
town I'm sorry to say are just not good
at this um I would recommend that you do
a lighter colored utility brick instead
of doing the
pre-cast um there are just way too many
examples that I've seen in Upper
Arlington uh in Grand View where they've
utilized pre-cast or even pre-cast Stone
uh but pre-cast concrete and they just
don't install them
properly um you do I'm assuming you're
going to have some kind of drip edge
that's going to be down there uh made
out of zinc um or stainless steel and
that thing puncturing through this
pre-cast is never a good detail it looks
terrible um and it collects dirt and you
get all this you know sort of runny
stuff happening at that drip um in my
projects we tried try to hide the drip
um by having like an In-N-Out sort of
belt course at the bottom so it's
actually underneath a projected brick um
but there's but they look terrible um
and again I can tell you lots of
developments around Columbus where it's
just not resolved by the contractor or
by the architect so my suggestion would
be to make that bottom course if we
could zoom in on that detail and again
I'm just kind of nitpicking here but you
could choose even a gray colored utility
brick you know oversized brick in place
of the pre-cast but there's a there's a
blow up of
this can I ask is that an
aircraft product or is it actually a
pre-cast it's a r is the brick actually
bearing on it yes so it's it's in the
it's in line with the brick and the
structural holding up the brick yeah
limone Bas yeah air aircraft does
require a limestone base but rockcast
does not you can be in contact with soil
and we've done that on a number of
occasions it says pre-cast conquer I
know it says it on the drawing
but aist it's a Precast
architectural
well yeah well the issue for me is is
not it could it could be it could be
Limestone it could be sandstone the
problem is is that when you have this
used as a Veneer at that level the
installations that I've seen in in the
last decade are just not well done and I
don't know if it's they can't get the
pieces level or or not um it's the drip
edge you know condition at the bottom um
I just think it would be it would be to
your benefit to replace that with a a
utility size brick that was a light
color match the AIS whatever color it
was I I also think it gives you more
flexibility for you know all the brick
work they can start at the base they can
hide that drip edge um and work their
way up
so as much as I appreciate having a belt
course that's a different material I
just and and it's not that I don't
appreciate that material but I've I've
just never seen it installed properly
and for The Pedestrian
Zone which is this Zone to be walking
down this street and to be look looking
at these bad COA details the bad drip
edge
details um I just I think you'd be much
better off making it an oversized brick
other than that I don't have any issues
um I'm just thinking about
long-term uh materiality and
um otherwise you've covered everything
that we asked for and I really
appreciate that so
thanks Mr Hall yeah I really don't have
any comments um I'm I'm for this so I
think it looks really good I appreciate
the changes you made um I think taking
some of Bill's comments into
consideration would would help push it
along too so that's all I
have Mr K I would Echo that I would say
the same thing I appreciate the effort
that you went into uh getting it to this
point I I'm I know that this has been a
long time coming and I I think I think
this this is good
okay and I I'm the same I I think it
looks great um I feel like most of us
have learned from our mistakes and
things over the years and so I take what
Mr H higher says um to heart and would
ask that you just explore some of the
things he's asking for
so okay um so we can we can go ahead and
so we're tabling it again yes because of
the a recommendation yes ma'am yeah so
we will table this one more time
um to the March 13th meeting
okay is there a board member that will
make a
motion so moved
higher second
Calhoun Mr Hall yes Mr Calhoun yes Mr
Scott yes Mr hire chairwoman Tony
yes okay we will see you back next month
and thank you thank you very much and
that's all we have for today we are
adjourned