e
e e
the actually the November but we have it
on January because of Thanksgiving the
or December rather than because of
Thanksgiving so the December 5th we'll
just do it that way meeting of the
Beckley Board of zoning and
planning Matt would you call the role
please oh sorry oh I thought I had a m
okay yeah that's
fine it's over here oh I put it over
here that's fine you can say that Mr
Turner here M Dorne here Mr Rosenthal
here Mr aser buner here Mr Marsh here Mr
schik chairman behall also here thank
you very much the um minutes of the
prior meeting um were provided as
everybody had a chance that was here
last meeting to review
them and if so does anybody have
any modifications or alterations
deletions they'd like to
make I see no indication of such if
there is a approval I would entertain a
motion to approve the minutes of the uh
would been the October meeting of the
bap
so move Marsh thank you Mr Marsh is
there a
second all in favor of approval say I I
I all oppose
nay the minutes of the October meeting
are approved Mr chair should I make note
that I just abstained I was not present
well I I I think anybody we could vote
uh by hand I guess here we could take a
since there were some people that
weren't here who who was not here did
not vote m d m
Rosenthal okay the others voted yes so
that would
be Turner echel brener Marsh and Beall
all
right the uh this is an opportunity for
public comment anybody who wishes to
comment on the operation of the Bap or
its General protocols or functions is
now uh has an opportunity to do so but
cannot talk about any particular cas but
just
the
anybody um the first um matter under old
business involves application bcap
24-28 also filed under
2431 involving 490 to 492 North Cassidy
the applicant is Jad Khan and the owner
is Bob Marshall this is the application
seeking a special permit and a variance
for Beckley city code section 12 5417 to
allow a food trailer SLC cart accessory
use structure to be permanently
installed on the sidey yard of 490 North
Cassidy would the applicant whoever is
here representing the applicant please
come
forward chairman if I may I haven't had
any contact with them and they did not I
left it on there okay keep it on there
okay they have not reached back out to
me and the food cart trailer is not
returned
is is not there it's not there anymore
okay they moved it a couple months ago
and okay haven't heard anything all
right in that case
um I guess we should table it probably I
I don't know how we take it off it has
to be dismissed by the applicant they
can certainly do so or we could do
so voluntarily involuntarily I suppose
do we have do if it's old business do we
can we can we just not bring it up
because it's already on the table right
if it's all business I I don't know can
you not we we have to vote to pull like
I already have brought we would we would
like to table it um officially because
then we don't have to notice it again
okay we table it to a date certain if
that's as good a reason that as any and
it would be January 20 23rd 23rd
okay is um do I hear a motion to table
this uh case b bcap 24-28 please so move
Turner thank you Mr Turner second Brer
thank you Mr Nel
brener all in favor of tabling this
matter say I I all oppose nay the motion
carries unanimously and this matter is
tabled under new business the first case
is application
bc-2
24-35 involving 470 South Park View the
application is Santiago Alvarez and the
owner is Janna Clark the applicant is
Seeking a certificate of appropriateness
in an area variance from the Bexley city
code section 12
5217 to allow a 1549 ft in-law suite
addition above a new attached
garage would the applicant come forward
please on that
case all right
would the three of you raise your right
hand to be sworn if you're going to
testify that is do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're going to give
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the
truth and can I have your names
please Jana all
right
Justin all
right okay
staff you want to tell us a little bit
about this
case yeah sure um so we had an in-law
suite A couple meetings ago this is
another in-law suite um this is at 470
South Park View right kind of caddy
corner from our building here it's R3
zoning it's an interior lot uh the lot
size is standard for the R3 zoning area
um the allowable size of an in-law suite
is 800 square ft um they are requesting
1549 Square F feet uh so it's a 749
square foot area variance I have posted
on the staff report uh
1252 17 which is the in-law suite code
um again I don't know do you want to
refresher on the difference between
in-law suite and an addition slash
in-law suite is an independent dwelling
unit that is attached to um the primary
structure it must be lived in by um
family members MERS of the owners of the
primary structure um and and again an
independent dwelling unit has all three
characteristics of um similar to an
accessory dwelling unit so bedroom
kitchen and
bathroom
um there's a screenshot up here uh
highlighted in yellow this is the this
is an so I'll let Karen talk a little
bit about ARB actually because this this
comes into play here so um this case was
before ARB and I believe that officially
they're sending it to you without a
recommendation um the ARB was pretty um
adamant that this design was not an
acceptable design um the applicant um
has showed a lot of Goodwill and they
have come back with another design just
a couple days ago it is on here I I know
you haven't had time to look at it and
actually Design's not in your purview
anyway but I just wanted to kind of show
that the process is continuing but if um
the architectural View Board from a
mathing perspective was not at all
concerned about having an
addition um attached there given the
size the small size of this particular
house in the neighborhood but they did
want it to be um more
consist a great home um so this is we
don't need to get into it but I just
wanted to show you that it you know
parallel they're working with me on
redoing the design to better flow with
the house that it appear so it really
does look like one one unified structure
um if this board is okay ranting this
variance based on just the flip print um
the architecture review board would like
it remanded back to them for final
design and certificate of
appropriateness um you know your other
option is to table it and in the interim
it would still go back to architecture
Bo um but before they invest too much
more time in design we thought it would
be a good idea to get kind of the
temperature of this board this kind of a
variance yeah um so that's why we're
here okay very good Matt do you have
anything to add uh no okay all right who
wants to be the spokesman and give us
some idea I mean this is obviously a big
a big square footage situation here just
off the top of my head uh and
to some extent ward has to worry a
little bit about you know we're going to
get a lot of in-law suite applications
over the years and uh this is uh the
kind of thing where we have be careful
what kind of precedent we set right you
do it for one person you got to do it
for the next person and can everybody in
Bexley do this uh massive a addition to
their
houses that's just throw it fair I'm
going to throw it out to you because it
strikes me is that's the most obvious
sit problem here but please speaking to
the microphone too because it's it's on
we're we're being recorded and this is
you know can you guys is this working am
I real quick but just so just so I
understand everything if if this is a
master
suite whatever if it wasn't if it's not
program the only issue is that the
programmatically in terms of this much
architecture on this site that's not the
issue it meets all the the lot coverage
correct I should I should have mentioned
that I apologize yes all the setbacks
all the lot coverage the only variance
is the square footage of the in-law
suite that's it got it and to clarify
also I think what's confusing a little
bit confusing about this project and I
think that um the presentation may clear
it up is they're also looking to achieve
a lot of things that in addition just
for their family would
also so there's you know I'm not
advocating 1500 sare feet plus for an
in-law suite but I want everyone to be
mindful that there's a lot of program
mixed into it that is addition for the
family as well right it's complicated
yeah we we looked at it okay yeah so um
yeah I feel like for us um we when we
applied we you know were calling it an
in-law sweet but you know that that is
really just one component of it as Karen
kind of was alluding to um like the
first floor is
generally the square footage is usable
for for the entire um home uh so it has
a h fourcc car
garage um so that footprint alone is you
know pretty much that in itself is
larger than the house you know given the
small size of the house
foot and one of the other kind of
components we had to include
which is right down the center is kind
of a new C circulation block um there
the house given the um the historic
nature of the house and when it was
first built the existing circulation
stair is um not really conducive
for if there was any kind of addition
added to this um to the house um it it
faces north um in the center of the
building building or of the house and is
kind of surrounded by the the bedroom so
any kind of addition to the back without
getting rid of um any of the bedrooms as
is would require a new um stairway and
by doing so we're kind of improving the
um know the size of the what you would
kind of see in a Stairway today you know
I believe is I don't know it's three
foot The Landing is shorter than it is
wide I mean there's a lot of issues with
the existing um circulation so um that's
kind of why we needed to include a new
stare in the back um and I guess I
should have preference that the project
is um for Justin's parents who um his
mother is suffering from Alzheimer so
the the um the reason this project even
um
came to fruition or um on the table was
uh that you know they would like to move
in with them and so there was a couple
circulation needs there um there's a an
elevator um in that new circulation
block um you know there's there's two
more adults in the house so there's four
adults with you know cars so kind of the
fourcc car garage um kind of was uh a
needed components
house garage component itself was kind
of required because right now there's a
just a exterior carport that you know
isn't very functional um uh for a family
um so yeah there's an in-law suite on
the second floor um
and but the the size of the overall
project is being driven more by the
other pieces of the um of the project
and you know there's a right now we're
kind of planning for the immediate
future as the in-law suite but over time
you know there's going to come come a
point where um you know they won't need
to be taken care of um his parents you
know hopefully this is you know 30 years
from now um
but the the thought is that eventually
the the house could uh undergo another
interior renovation that would allow it
to become more of a um I guess unified
house which would include getting rid of
one of the existing bedrooms and kind of
making it a more Corridor thare into
this um new master suite at that
point okay
yeah that our houses on the lots are so
deep that I think we still have a huge
amount of yard or a large amount of yard
that our entire yard is not taken up we
still have a lot of greenery and green
space and we have young kids so we want
them to be able to play outside too as
well sure um so I think that that was
important to us too that we weren't
taking up the you know we wanted to stay
within the site coverage but um also we
value that space as well so right yeah
it's I mean there are lot coverage rules
and and they haven't been uh abreg here
in any way
okay chairman that's up on the screen
for you all to see right here a lot
coverage can I ask a question so what
the the only thing that makes this
different than a very large addition to
the house is the fact that it has like a
kitchen on the second floor that is what
the major difference is than it would be
otherwise right otherwise it would just
be an addition correct
okay and there's not as far as I know
there's not
words that spell this out but if I had
to walk
through it sort of it has a door I mean
you can come and go without being in the
other I mean right that I me I feel like
we've never gotten like total Clarity
around the idea of but but in my mind
it's like well if I have to walk through
the main part of the house that I would
never give someone the keys and be like
here you go cap student you can rent
this that's your place here's our place
two mailboxes I mean to me that's the
concept of it is it sort of functions as
it has a door and like you can come and
go without going through the house I
mean that yes but it also it also has it
has a door to come go without going
through the house there's also a door
that yeah directly attaches to right
right right but it's more just I not so
much about this but it's always a little
bit of a qu I have the same question
every time it comes up I'm like so what
when is it and isn't it yeah so just to
follow up on so it constitutes a
mother-in-law Suite purely because the
kitchen because I've I mean I've been in
other houses in Bexley where they have
like a coffee bar upstairs or coffee bar
and a dishwasher or something like that
yes I'm guessing that wasn't a
mother-in-law Suite I'm guessing it was
just an attachment to the master bedroom
but right yes so that's you know the
general rule of thumb is to be an
independent dwelling unit you have to
have three things you have to have right
bathroom bedroom kitchen and we we have
said because our our code does not allow
accessory dwelling units currently um
you know we always say two of the three
in an addition is fine once you have all
three um it becomes either an accessory
dwelling unit or an in-law
suite yeah but I guess the question I
have is I mean if it's attached to the
house like if I went up and took my
third floor and put a kitchen a bathroom
and a bedroom on my third floor
am I going to be is that a mother-in-law
Suite or if that I mean I'm not going to
use it as one but if that's the remodel
I want to do for my third floor because
I'm tired of walking down two flights
from my office to get coffee or whatever
like like like is that I mean is that
constitute a mother-in-law I I just want
clarity as to wh why it's a motherin-law
site as opposed to just a big addition
like like I really don't understand
that
right and like um you know Janet and
Justin will have to go into the new
addition to go to their car you know and
that at that point if they're going to
their car they they have you know free
will to go upstairs and basically space
so there's really no there's no hard
separation okay so I'm not sure I
understand it if if I I see this little
side door here in the middle of the two
buildings right so is that an entrance
that I could go in there and go into the
house and into the Mother-in-law Suite
right okay and can I go from the house
to the Mother-in-law
Suite willy-nilly
whenever I
want yeah that I would say well the only
thing keeping you out of my house is a
door I mean in theory you could lock I
mean to me it's the thing again could
you imagine it functioning as an
independent thing that you would let
somebody rent and I feel like yes this
sort of meets that but to me it seems
like your application could be refined
in a way that says the suite is a
certain amount of square feet that's
very close to what you're allowed to
have it's a little over but there's a
bunch of square footage here that I
would argue like you said yeah like you
yeah but like you said it's like well
there's so some square footage here that
is not exclusive to
the the you know the the in-law suite so
yeah how much is how much square footage
is just that that second floor piece
above the
garage um it's 1100 I think that's 29 by
41 because the the guess the dwelling
unit is the dwelling space I should say
is um the same size as the garage I
believe the garage was like
1100 give it as 1549 here in this
drawing in the park VI attachment
package yeah I I was excluding the
um I guess a circulation
piece
yeah I've got one other question the
house that's on park viw that has the
big modern Edition on the back of the
old style house you which what I'm
talking about it's on the corner um I'm
pretty sure it's it's on Park View and I
can't think
it's it's got the big black edition
or Drexel I'm sorry I'm sorry Drexel
yeah yeah so I assume they have a
kitchen in that addition did they have
to come in for a mother-in-law
Suite okay there I can look it up but
there is a kitchen but there's not one
in the original part of the house so
they moved
it okay okay I I just only one yeah
that's right mat so so I I just have I
have a question so are we are we vote
we're voting on
a variance because the allow allowable
size is 800 square feet and this is more
than 800 square feet and then and then
we're voting if we think this is an
appropriate in-law suite is that or no
what what what are we voting on or what
are we being asked to we're saying I
think what we're saying is it's a good
question that you're allowed to do an
in-law suite and it has to be under 800
square or whatever the number is 800
square feet right and they're saying hey
we'd like do one that's 600 ft larger
and uh we'd like you to let us do that
okay got it and so the answer is you
know uh is there enough space here yes
is there enough backyard here yes is
there enough coverage we don't have to
give them a coverage variance no but uh
but we still do you know it's almost
like if they were to come in here and
and convert this to something that's in
addition to the house I think the two
kitchens is the problem right once again
the two kitchens make it an in-law suite
or an
ancillary structure of some sort like
what's the let's say I want to redo my
basement and I'm gonna put a full
kitchen in my basement I mean my Grandma
had a full kitchen in her basement
because she liked to cook like you know
for big parties and whatever right she
had a whole another kitchen down there
so that would be my basement then would
be an in-law
suite yeah if I had all of that in there
I mean that's I just this seems a little
bit different to me for some reason than
the typical one we see which is usually
a garage that someone has converted into
like it's a almost a separate structure
this this one I I think is a little
harder for me because you take down you
put in a door I guess the doorway is
already there and it's all
connected well there's certainly
can't think of whose house I was in a
couple weeks ago but they have two
kitchens yeah yeah they're big houses
and they have two kitchens because they
want to have parties and they want to
have a but to me that's the
configuration thing it just I just think
again I'm not saying you're proposing
this I'm just saying I when I see them
they either read one of two ways it
reads boy that would be awkward to have
a stranger living there or that would be
pretty comfortable having a stranger
living there and so I mean to me that's
is there you know if you split keys and
split the mail you know would someone
say this is so weird you do this or not
and to me this is definitely more like a
indep potentially independent thing I
mean I would be very sympathetic to
talking about where the line got drawn
to measure the square footage and it
seems like you're not I mean to me it
seems honestly it seems like the garage
is the problem because it's so deep if
the garage was only 20 feet deep which
it could be all of a sudden the space
that I'm measuring is the suite becomes
41x 20 instead of 41x 29 at which point
it's about 800 ft so
you know the primary living space that
we're saying is this sweet so to me it's
like reach it doesn't seem like you
couldn't achieve what you want to
achieve and either need a very very
small variance or no variance I guess
that's
why on that
so technically you could probably take
the primary bedroom flip it with the
living room and put a doorway out to the
hallway and say that's just an
additional bedroom for the main house
and then that stairwell
inlaw Suite you have the same square
footage but you have you have what you
want so I mean it's
really I I mean I mean I see what you're
saying but and I agree I mean it looks
like a full-blown two-bedroom apartment
there's no doubt about it
but I I I guess what I'm saying too is
if it's a big issue with them they could
come in and do that flip-flop and all of
a sudden say no this is a fifth bedroom
or an extra bedroom for the house and
then the in-law suit's behind it and
they meet all the criteria
so I don't know I just I mean to get
through it you you go I'm taking that
the left extreme is your son's bedroom
and there's a door there and you go
through the bonus room into this new
into this addition is the bonus room an
addition or is the bonus room
part it already exists it's like no it's
a deck yeah right it's a it's a full
size
outdoor
deck so is that gonna be
housed so it'll be under
roof
part the connectors yeah circulation
block connector um your point the rooms
and things like
that almost all all the stuff here
isation from mother
and compant live in one of the big
things probably one of the
reasons because carak such my dad is
also seven years old we don't want to
lose him at the
same having full-time care requires a
garage space for them requires the
bedroom for them requires a bathroom for
them
but it's one it's one of those like
these are all things that they are ad
about wanting and meting
because they being your
parents I look I think it's a nice
design I mean I I like it I my my view
would be and we should hear if there's
neighbors but I think we should I'd like
to just have a note that
says you know when we measured that area
it it was act we we viewed it as x
square feet so that if someone comes in
and they want to do a 1500 square
foot um in-law suite we're not setting a
president for doing a 1500 square foot
one and that that's my question for
staff to staff's knowledge what's the
largest variants we've given this thus
far to it in law Suite I would have no
idea off top of my head I'd have to call
Kathy Rose this
wouldn't you got her on speed do yeah I
don't I don't I have no idea
our neighbors the
support so if we took off that part
that's right there with the stairwell
and everything like that because it's
underneath it you said is common right
yeah and it's not like living
space 1200 so it's 1200 still with that
okay but I guess yeah again my point is
well you know the length of the depth of
the garage that don't have
to you need to have the depth of the
garage does a lot of handiwork you know
so serve other functions like have a
workshop there's a mechanical room down
there um the how you
know water heater can I just ask one
question there
is the size of the garage
okay uh yeah okay I think there was a
comment earlier that the garage would be
larger than the original house it was
just trying to be sensitive to that yeah
yeah because it's it's an attached
garage it's not a detach so our code
regulates detached garages accessory
structures and that's the square footage
footprint but an detached garage is
allowed to do
thanks chairman I highlighted or I
clouded the bonus area he's not
listening you
not he was highlighting that's that's
the bonus area with the roof yeah okay
nice to know you I I appreciate that now
because I was this is a good view of it
here I mean
my my personal reaction is that the mass
of it
is not particularly
Pleasant and but we don't do
architectural here right what I think
about the design is absolutely nothing
to do with anything this is just a
matter from from my perspective of we
can cut this 18 ways but I think it's
it's pretty big and I think that we do
we'd have to pretty much
weasle our way to getting
this done without setting a pretty
significant precedent here that's my
personal opinion so I don't
know yeah that's a that's a pretty big
that's a pretty big variance I mean it's
a 50% addition to the to the amount I
mean here's what we got to be careful
about in that is
uh as long as everybody has doesn't have
lot coverage issues like you don't have
here uh we just have to say what if
everybody wants to do this is this okay
if Bexley has this on the back of every
house is that okay now not every house
is going to build a mother-in-law Suite
of course but you have to kind of think
your way down the line uh make the the
the argument that takes the the concept
to its logical extreme you know I mean I
mean I if we if the kitchen was not
there though like would we even be
having this conversation no I don't
think so what about if the stove wasn't
there I mean you'd be having it with the
Architectural Review Board as whether
they like your design or not that's
different story i' just like to
remind we we deal with the you know the
Dos factors we need to be very careful
that we're looking at massing and not
particularly the use um has there been
any contingencies on this that have
looked at having the size of the
variants um no we haven't really gone
down that route I mean the it just
doesn't
us yeah as the chair said earlier um
when we provide Varian is that also
subsequently becomes a precedent to
somebody and it's a great story it just
the massing is
massive well in a little bit it's I'm
very sympathetic to the whole exercise
and I think you make good arguments on
the other hand I feel like well the
problem is we somebody smarter than us
said 800 square feet is a reasonable
amount of square footage to dedicate to
uh you know to this use and we you know
so we can like decide whether we think
that is or isn't reasonable but it's you
know and if you're asking for 10 square
feet I'd say well 810 that's you know
820 850 but it is a lot and you know so
that's I think there's a sort of
piggyback on what chairman Pall was
saying I mean that it starts feeling
like you know and again it's not easy
but I think what Mr Clinger is doing I
mean you can imagine a world where you
say well the secondary bedroom aligns
itself more with the main house and the
and then all of a sudden you're like
well whoever came up with 800 square
feet wasn't so crazy I mean it starts to
feel like all right somebody can live in
an 800 foot space and sort of have all
the functions they need so but that
doesn't solve your exact configuration
problem yeah Andrew we during Co um I
think how many meetings do we have that
one of these one of our 1:00 a.m
meetings went on to this and we were
very very deliberative about this both
then and when Mr Kingler began
presenting it in purpose person um we we
deliberated the 800 feet a lot and yeah
as as celed it yeah yeah I mean like I
said it feels like not sloppy math right
I mean I don't see also I I think I
think something that makes me also qu
question that like whether Moore is okay
and this type of lot this is a large lot
we're not talk you know like they're
same with that Drexel house they doubled
their house
right look like it yeah this is but they
have the room to do it now other places
you know can't do that because they
don't have the room there are some very
large hous on Park viw that are I'm sure
easily this because they have Big Lots
to do so right and so that's corner lot
too isn't it on Drexel yeah yeah but
that that's my point I mean like they
meet all the other requirements so
massing does not like the size of it is
not as bothersome to me as you know if
they can rearrange the square footage to
make it work yeah I I would be
more willing to do that I think you know
flip a bedroom and see what happens Happ
let me ask if there is anybody here in
the audience that is here to speak on
this uh particular application anybody
back there raise your hand if you are
okay I see no indication of that so um
sorry just one glass question Matt so
yeah it's def if it's defined as an
in-law suite they cannot use it as an
apartment it has to be a relative that
lives there correct right currently they
cannot currently
I can't speak to the future but and the
owner has to live on site future
apparently they cannot huh they cannot
okay and it's not just a relative the
owner has to live on
site right
yeah we've seen some creative stuff
well let me answer this what
happen What happens if if uh you know I
I'm hypothetically speaking but you get
transferred to New Mexico and you have
to sell this house you you have to sell
it to somebody that absolutely has a
relative that can live in or now what do
we have we have an addition
you're the owner yeah I got you I I I
was wondering about that yeah
right I mean I would I guess to that if
you were to if it was somebody like
buying a bigger house on Parkview if it
had six bedrooms it's like only somebody
who has the need to fit that many
bedrooms by the house so they would you
know it would be somebody same deal here
it's like I need five bedrooms I got
five bedrooms here that well they would
have to re they would have to do what
you were suggesting earlier and that is
convert it to an addition and do get rid
of the kitchen or something or whatever
they have to do to make it in
addition like if the kitchen was in the
garage you know like one work below
it I don't
know well
the question
is you're you're going back down to the
Architectural Review Board one way or
the other I would say
but I
mean you can you can have a vote tonight
if you want right that's up that's up to
you you're the applicant uh what
that yeah I don't know because I'm only
one I'm only one vote you know but um
but it's it's if you don't get it you're
back to the drawing board and you have
to come up with something you know that
that comports if you do get it then
you're going to go back down and they're
going to see whether they're okay with
the design if they make change of design
you're going to have to change some
things anyway and probably kind of have
to come back up here anyway maybe I
don't know that's
possible depends on what you do but uh
the other possibility is you
you can table it
and think through it and learn what
you've learned tonight by listening to
the comments here and see if there's
some way that you can tweak
this where where your chances of getting
more votes are
greater you got here tonight one two
three four five six
seven yeah I know your parents are not
getting any younger you can't wait
forever to do this you got to decide can
we do it or not and uh one my question
to is the direction we should go so we
like I feel we've heard a couple of
different scenarios we can shift it take
out the kitchen and just say it's an
addition or we can flip the bedroom and
make it be not that like make the
bedroom be a part of the house or we can
lessen the size and it feels like
besides lessening the size it's all
accomplishing the same thing
um like it's it's just a matter of
semantics in some ways right or no am I
not thinking about it correctly I don't
know well I can't tell you how to think
about it because I'm not sure I
understand but you know I mean you have
a fourcc car garage which is really
creating the width right right and the
living room could be smaller if it were
a three-car garage I'm just I'm just
throwing out thoughts for you right but
I think going back to sorry I'm sorry to
interrupt you go ahead but you know I'm
not an architect and my brother is and I
don't want to be one and uh it's uh it's
it just seems like there's some ways to
get yourself I I don't think anybody uh
that I'm hearing comments from would say
hey instead of 800 you came in here and
it was 875 and we just couldn't find a
way to make it less than 875 I I don't
think you're going to have any trouble
here uh but I think that the the
precedential nature of what you're doing
and the fact that all these little rules
are forcing us see we're not elected
officials they make the laws we just try
to decide is this a situation that
requires some variance from the laws
that they pass right we don't have any
such Authority and I think we're we're
get close to the edge here on it because
of the size of
it I think going back to like when you
think about all the other houses on Park
View that size isn't an issue and we're
still Liv a lot coverage so this the the
size of of it I don't think is the
problem I think the it seems like the
issue is just the Precedence that we're
setting of an eight over an 800 square
foot in last week that's right so like I
don't I don't think I'm interested in
Shifting the size because that doesn't
seem like the issue I think if we have
to flipflop things to like play the
game that's fine but it just feels kind
of like a waste of time like we're gonna
get to the same end point do you know
what I mean I
do I do defition of what a kitchen is
like if is it the range you know if
somebody if we took out the range and
then they just put in like a hot plate
you
know could it's
like but now you're getting into you
know we can't as a body of seven people
here answer that question for you it's
it's because there is an answer you need
to have maybe somebody who's reading the
statutes who a lawyer or somebody look
at it and say hey let me go to the staff
and argue that a hot plate is not a
kitchen and see if I can convince them
that this is not a uh mother-in-law
Suite okay this is an addition well now
you need
to as opposed to have us seven people
try to figure out how to do it
here well a lot of people bring lawyers
in here
yeah on it as an yeah we wouldn't even
be voting right you would you wouldn't
even be talking to us you be back at
architectural Bo the precedent of people
coming with that in-law suite variance
do you want me to not go here I can read
you the kitchen definition in our
ordinance yes okay kitchen means a
definable area or room for food
preparation typically consisting of a
permanent cooking appliance for use in
food preparation a refrigerator cabinets
and a sink usually in close proximity to
another there you go see that's why you
get lawyers to read through that kind of
junk and decide you know what is this
and what can we do that that at least
creates the argument that this isn't a
mother-in-law Suite Is We I don't think
can get around that today that it's a
mother-in-law Suite because that has
those three components and it and it
meets that definition that she just read
so I think it it was submitted as that
I'm sorry yeah and it was submitted to
us as such right yeah that thank you
okay so now they have to file a new
filing fee and I want to them
to yeah um we can discuss the filing fee
but yeah I would just need an ARB
application to properly track it so I
would close this one out and you would
open a new ARB application that's
all we could get we I would want that
for our record keeping purposes but if
when it goes you could go back to ARB
just as a new
number right in in January you wouldn't
lose your place in line so to speak but
just for future when we're going back
and seeing was this a be you know was
there a variance on this property or not
I wouldn't want to beap and then
someone's confused when
I'm
gone
so Noe or vote at
all I was listening to his thoughts
still there's a lot of thought sorry you
could you could I wasn't trying to trade
you could you could
vote however it goes if you have to go
back to ARB and you delete and you don't
have a new application without a
variance you could certainly do that the
next ARB meeting is January 9th
so you have to go so just I would ask
that you just resubmit your documents as
an ARB number as opposed to a BAP number
for just it's it's for our it's for our
purposes that's just for the record it's
not going to change your place in
line do
that
correct the kitchen but if this board
says no if I'm ARB I say well I don't
want to hear this case because they it's
not approvable they won't be able to get
a building permit change them well
that's what I'm saying right so yeah so
at that
point I point Andrew they've I ARB has
not seen the new design right right so
they're they're going back to ARB R but
I'm saying yeah it won't it'll have to
be something that wouldn't need a
variance forb to it or or sufficiently
different variant that there's a chance
that maybe we would pass it because
we've already voted on this one in that
scenario and said no it almost seems
like this one is better to come here
first and go to ARB second well that's
basically what we're doing that's why we
asked ARB if they would be okay moving
it without aemotion to you all yeah and
they agreed that is exactly the point
that's why we that's why we did
it you are smart
well that you might be mad at me
actually but
thanks it it doesn't make sense to
design this to death without if this
isn't going to pass here
yeah okay well do you want us to go
ahead and
vote I'm I'm not sure I really see too
much downside in for you yeah I mean I I
feel like just gauging the temperature
is that we should table it but what's
different here than when we were at ARB
I felt like with ARB was you know was a
little more clear as far as like okay we
need to kind of you know XY do XYZ for
the um do what XYZ to match the yeah I
understands um write the date down here
it's like design has never been more
clear than like we've already talked
about like the size is not an issue it's
only because it has a kitchen in it and
I it's just like you know I don't want
to take square footage out of the house
or you know out of the
addition when it's when it's like I mean
if I if I could be very very clear it's
not semantics it's what you're applying
under it's the variance for the code
that you're applying under it's not
semantics and also we're not I mean even
though chairman bual doesn't want to be
an architect I mean what he said is AR
tal feedback which isn't up to us
so and I for the record I you know it's
just I just feel like we there's no I
whether I don't have an opinion exactly
about the scale of it it's just that I
feel like you gotta when I look at I'm
like you got to help me get closer to
something that doesn't feel like we are
just making up our own rules willingly
and it says code we're gonna be fine 12
It's like got we gotta figure out some
way to like get me some some by some
definition that we can kind of agree
seems reasonable feels like we're closer
to 800 that would be my perspective on
it doesn't have it to do with making it
a smaller volume it just like it just
works too well like a 1 1600 foot
Standalone thing currently and so
somehow that needs to get modified but
it to me it doesn't mean making it
smaller necessarily fewer square feet
it's probably less efficient because
this is very efficient thoughtfully done
so it might not be might be more
expensive to build the thing that does
that but it's just it's all hard
situation we're in because what we think
is reasonable and what the code says
aren't necessarily the same
things I mean we find that if if you
table it and you think you can go out
and talk to your parents talk to your
architect figure out ways to make the
living room smaller get rid of the third
car garage I mean there's a hundred ways
you can gerrymander this thing around I
using a bad term in Ohio right now but
nonetheless then we can't really sit
here and figure that out with you
whereas if you table it you can go to
the drawing board you can do masch you
can cat it 16 different ways in 20
minutes probably right and see what you
can or can't do to get the thing to to
to work see if your parents are okay
without a kitchen you know I mean all
these kinds of things are are out there
for you but uh if we vote and and you
don't get it well then you could still
go out and do that and
reapply go back to the drawing board I
mean I'm not sure I much disadvantage in
getting a
vote all right are there any other
questions or comments from members of
the
board okay I think we can call the
question well we don't have somebody to
call the question Karen you could call
the question um so so we are voting yeah
I guess we'll vote you want us to vote
you guys want us do you want us to
vote also I'll just tell you how I vote
I mean I don't know if other board
members are comfortable I'll just tell
you I can't vote yes for the way it is
currently so so so there's that I mean
so so here's what's going to happen if
if if it's voted down because it's an
in-law suite then you're going to change
it and either remove a bathroom change
the size of the suite and then you're
going to reapply and go to Architectural
Review and that's if we vote it down if
we table it you know you're I don't know
but it sounds like you may not get it
approved tonight which means you're
going to probably make the same changes
and then you're going to have to come
back in front of us so if it gets turned
down then you change make the changes
and then you just have to go you don't
have to come back here
again but if you table it then it's
still still a matter for zoning and then
we have to come back and approve the new
design and and so that would be my
recommendation I don't know whether
everybody else the same way but you guys
are the only ones can make the decision
and it has to be whether or not you're
willing to cut the size down if you're
not if you're like this is just what we
want 11 whatever go for the vote and
then if you get turned down which I
actually have no idea what going to
happen based on what I'm hearing but um
if you get turned down then you know you
have to redo the design not the design
but the the floor plan and
size I mean I wouldn't go go to the mic
though
because we have to vote on the 1539 or
whatever it is or can we vote on the
part that's not
common like can we vote on 1100 instead
of 15 or do we have to vote on what we
applied for I I we've changed the
verbiage a lot you know over the years I
I don't feel uncomfortable but it's
really up to Matt whether we change that
if we really want to say like okay upon
discussion really the calculated space
of the in-law suite is
1161 I don't think it's gonna make a
difference in the way people are voting
I don't know okay do they have an is
there an appeal mechanism for our
decision just out of curiosity there's
AAL mechanism for everything right so I
mean I don't think you want to do but
you can I mean we if we vote that's
another option you have is to I have a
question if they if they submitted this
drawing in where it says secondary
bedroom bath laundry and kitchen and
they drew a box around that and they
said that's the Mother-in-law suite and
then we're also building a living room
and we're building something else oh
would would
that would that not are you looking at
the floor plan yeah yeah I'm just so
yeah the floor plan because they're the
square footage problem is because
they're building a second bedroom and
they're building this you know huge
living room and they're building all
this other stuff I mean if when I look
at this I see you know it it's it's not
1,500 square feet for the in-law suite
it's much smaller but if you go to the
go to the second floor I mean couldn't
they just come change the drawing and
say that the in-law we're building a
1500t Edition and the in-law squ Suite
is 800 square feet in that addition and
then if they did that they wouldn't even
need to come back to us be clear I do
think there are ways that you could conf
reconfigure the upstairs that would make
a smaller in-law suite and have more
shared living
space it it may not be what you want but
I think you could have shared living
space
for I
if you change the drawing and it say
kitri bedroom and this just says guest
bedroom and you Circle all that and you
said that's 800 whatever that's it's
probably less than 800 square feet and
you said that's the Mother-in-law suet
we're saying the same thing then I don't
know how put a wall in a door well he's
not saying a lot the wall a door I think
that's the difference I'm not saying
yeah I know why you need a I wouldn't be
comfortable with the semantic change but
I think there's an architectural change
where right but I don't think just
drawing a line and saying Abracadabra
this space doesn't belong to belongs
equally to the existing house and to the
new thing I would say well that's BS I
mean there's no real I mean it's just
not true but I think you could redesign
something that yeah would where that
would be true but I don't think you can
redesign it tonight no we have too many
other cases people waiting to have their
cases I think I think you need to do
this in a more academic setting than
here and not that there aren't some
academics on this border that you're not
academics but it's just a matter of you
you need to massage this thing somehow
because you need here's what you need
you need four yes votes out of seven so
three people can vote no you can still
win right but I don't know how that's
going to go your your judge of how
they're going to vote is more important
than mine but I think to answer my
original question are we voting on 1529
vote on 1100 or whatever couldn't see
how we could vote on something not for
us yeah I I I think you'd have to show
us how we're getting down to 1100 part
that's not
common
yeah like not where the elevator and
steps and hallway are
yeah I don't I don't know if it makes a
difference but it's feels like less
Square 1162 to get it down to 1162 yeah
yeah I mean that's the to me that's
totally fair I mean that's we we've you
know I don't know if it's the right
thing to do or not but in past years we
have we have a lot of times tweaked the
upon upon discussion realize that the
variance was worded incorrectly or the
square footage I don't I don't have a
problem with that at all because that's
truly the in-law suite I don't think it
solves your problem
okay I don't I don't know if it would
help the process from a design
perspective you mean from a vote
perspective I mean I don't think anyone
who's gonna yeah it's too big vote no
for 1500 is not going to all of a sudden
be convinced by
1192 I think that's right I think that's
right that's my gut reaction as well but
I think Mr Rosenthal is right I think
you can get everything you want
massaging it in a way
that creates a much smaller not much
smaller but a 800 foot in-law
space okay we'll go for the vote right
we want to go
um yeah I
mean like I hear what you were saying
earlier about you know we massaged it to
the point where we wouldn't have to come
back here then yeah
we even if we massage it we have to come
back no matter what that's
right vote and see how it goes and I'm
I'm comfortable with that okay all right
Matt give us findings of fact
conclusions of law on this one please or
that's your job now Karen Karen you're
just a switching things around jack of
all trades the findings and fact and
conclusions of law for application Bap
2435 for property located at 470 South
Park View um for the request that a
certificate of
appropriateness I'm sorry that a area
variance from Bexley code section
12527 to allow are we going to change it
to 1192
48 square feet I need to write that down
no no not just do it right here you want
the area variance so it would be to
allow an area variance of what's 1192
minus 800 3 392 square feet area
variance
392 square foot area variance area
variance
allow
area variance to allow an inlaw site
above a new detached
garage sorry attached garage based on
the testimony presented the board finds
it appropriate to Grant the
variance um that's it and contingent
amount returning oh yes I'm sorry and
the applicant with the condition that
the applicant returned to ARB for final
design approval and certificate of
appropriateness that sound good to you
okay all right do I hear a motion to
approve the findings of fact conclusions
of law please so move Turner thank you
Mr Turner is there second second Dorne
thank you Miss
Dorne Mr Kingler are you the one calling
the role or Karen did you take that over
as well all right Mr E
Runner no Mr Marsh yes M
Dorne I'm gonna say yes Mr
Turner um yeah I'm I'm going to say yes
and I'm basing it on the fact that it to
me it's just an interior wall layout
issue that they're going to solve anyway
so I think we should help the citizens
of Bexley and allow them to get what
they need to take care of their elderly
parents so I'm voting
yes Mr
shik
yes
no good luck it's a good project I mean
you know all
right good luck at the ARB
too might need more help there than you
do here the record if any client came to
us we would recommend exactly what just
happened to get them the
win you know you do
it no comment
wow just what of the corner you looking
at all right the next um application
thanks for being patient everybody is B
zap2 24-40 involving
2075 Fair Avenue Mr Alexander is here as
the applicant and the owner is Mr
William
Bundy Mr
Alexander you would raise your right
hand to be sworn you swear or affirm
that any testimony you give the board
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth I do
thank you very much all
right who's going to give us the staff
perspective on this baby Mr
Kingler hold it up
here okay um so this is a classic um
weird layout lot that we love in Bexley
corner lot it's at the corner of um Park
Hill and fair um the original platting
of the lot plats it to Park Hill as the
front yard so kind of how you see here
uh the site already has um a fence on it
it's a wire mesh fence right uh the
applicant needs um a special permit to
for a height
variance um to install or I'm sorry an
area variant to install a new 5- foot
ornamental black fence I think Gary
you're replacing the wire mesh right we
are replacing wire mesh yeah um and then
because it's such a quirky layout they
need a
slight so this is considered the rear
yard this is considered the front yard
um they need the rear yard is a 40 yard
setback in this uh zoning area and so
they encroach with a new sort of mud
room addition why is that so it's six
it's six 6 feet 7 and a half inches into
the rear yard setback with an
addition um pretty small variances it's
a it's a really large lot um staff is in
support of of these variances not much
not much to this here all
right voted sorry the architecture
review board um voted on this as a
consent agenda item and had no issues
with it at all all right thank you Mr
Alexander you want to give us just a
little more insight as to why we're
doing this and and
I I think the lot is the issue um
because of the unusual allocation of the
setbacks based on the original plat um
the the
addition the majority of the six six
feet plus or minus addition majority of
that is just a covered porch so most of
it's actually exterior space so the
Interior Space is really only
approaching the foot and with the fence
we are I think we're meeting the spirit
of the code with the fence because first
of all it's it's going to be most of
it's going to be obscured by significant
landscape that's there now and also the
the there's even more landscape that's
going to be added the landscape plan has
been included the grade change that
occurs between Park Hill is pretty
significant between the elevation of
Park Hill and where the fence is located
so what you'll see is about two feet
over the height grade at Park Hill
because of how low that fence is going
to sit so in terms of the height and in
terms of the landscape I think we're
meeting the spirit of the code there's
also a precedent in the same block
there's a house on Westland that in the
front yard has a very visible almost
identical fence that um is very very
visible so I don't think we're
introducing something that would that's
unusual in the neighborhood
all right members of the board are you
have any questions of Mr Alexander or
any
comments is there anybody in the
audience that is here Pro or con this
case that would like to speak thank you
very much I don't see any indication of
such
um if there's no further questions we
could get a finding the fact conclusions
of law on this matter so moved sh
okay Aon
please second we have a second second no
no there's no motion yet we need to hear
the findings of fact first he just he
just jumped the gun on us a little bit
that's what I was he's anxious you
know yes okay the findings in fact and
conclusions of law for application
number Bap 24-40 for the property
located at 2075 Fair Avenue
um based on the testimony presented the
board finds it appropriate to Grant a
certificate
appr six foot that's the right one seven
seven and a half inch rear yard setback
area variance from Bexley code sections
12 52.0 n and an area variance from
Bexley code 16 um sorry 126 64.0 to
install a new five foot tall ornamental
black steel fence in the front yard
[Music]
now all right uh do I hear a motion to
approve the findings of fact conclusions
of law Mr shik I can't I can't derail
him he's he's already done that so is
there a sec did you ask him do you agree
oh yeah yeah I'm sorry he did
ask uh thank you thank you Mr Turner um
I'll make is there a second second turn
yeah okay thank you with the motion and
the second M Mr Kingler will you call
the role Miss Dorne yes and it's a big
Improvement to what's there in your
pictures Mr rosenal yes Mr schik Gary
great work yes Mr Marsh yes Mr Turner
yes Mr usel Brer yes chairman Beall I
vote Yes as well and the uh certificate
of appropriateness is granted and the
variant as well and thank you for your
patience waiting through that last case
and your clients as well
thanks all right the next case
is case Bap
2441 involving 2111 Park Hill it is the
the applicant is Steven schw and the
owner is Patrick King
sir if you would raise your right hand
you swear or affirm that any testimony
give the board this evening be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth and your name please Stephen Schmo
and your relationship to this endeavor
is I'm the architect and applicant for
Mr King all right thank you very
much Karen what does the staff have to
say I'll start with the architecture
View Board
okay okay say it the architect review
board oh shoot sorry let me start over
the architecture review board um really
liked this a lot architecturally thought
it was beautiful in fact they went into
a deep dive in how to improve the um the
sofits the overhangs the adding the the
eve decorative Eve to match and sizing
it appropriately and the applicant
agreed to do all of that so um there
will be changes to the original
application but they're
um only improvements to match the
existing with detail if approved
here all right Mr hire's favorite house
in
Bexley okay on the record fair
enough um so it's Mr King's favorite
house in Bexley also I have a feel yes
um so most of you probably know this
house it's the corner of Park Hill and
Westland um they uh applicant wants so
it's a corner lot the corner lot setback
building setback for this zoning
district is 25 feet so basically where
the primary structure ends sort of right
here if you see up on the screen um the
the garage is right here off of the auto
Court um they would like the two car
garages is not even wide enough for a a
second car really um so they proposed
putting uh a one car garage right here
the Landscaping is going to um almost
hide it from The View once it's mature
from Westland um there aren't a lot of
um example there's not a the setbacks
very widely along wesland so um it's not
out of character for the neighborhood um
staff sees no issue uh with this
variance
okay Mr fr what do you think you tell us
anything more pretty good uh pretty good
start start to the conversation okay um
yeah just a couple things to reiterate
before we um dive deep into the
conversations here um this is a project
been making for a little over about a
year year and a half now um we've been
in the drawing board uh numerous times
already placing a placing a new garage
uh within the build limits on the site
and the quirkiness of not only the grade
but the house placement you know and the
corner lot and wesland really really put
this design challenge um brought this
design challenge forward and we've
settled on a on a position here where we
feel architecturally this this single
car added garage or attached garage um
really while it sits in the build area
or with with outside of the build area
excuse me um it
does not impose any kind of real
detriment to the the streetcape the
surrounding neighbors um as you all know
the Street's heavily used both by
pedestrians and and cars and and being
on the hill that it is right at the
intersection um this the actual addition
has actually
Wasing so it really is unimposing uh but
at the same same time architecturally I
think stimulates you know what character
and charm is already you know present
present in the house um while kind of
meeting all the needs that the client
needed to facilitate two cars um so
again the while that the magnitude of
the ask you know on paper kind of seems
large and egregious you know within the
building setback if you look at it in in
actuality you know coupled with the Nice
Landscaping we really don't feel like
this is going
to I guess be
um you know give uh I guess make it seem
like it's an egregious uh project at the
end of the day so yeah I happen to
answer any questions that you might have
my observation is that the applicant um
or kids are good friends that that their
cars don't have bumper cars around them
because it's what 4,800 square foot
house with a one car garage I mean how
they are able to
navigate is already is pretty extraord
yeah the a the auto court itself is is
important for us to maintain the use of
that just for the maneuverability of
getting in and off of of Westland um and
you know so keeping that intact making
sure that the you know you have the
space to to pull in to turn around to
back out is really important for you
know day-to-day
use chairman if I may add something
just to let all of you know um if you're
looking I forgot to add one thing they
do they come in just under the lot
coverage ratio so I know you see a lot
of buildings and a lot of stuff there on
the lot they are I know that came up in
the last I forgot to mention it they are
under the lot coverage we confirmed
that's good to know this is gonna seem
like a weird question but was there any
thought to actually making this slightly
bigger like pushing it up against the
existing house and making it a two car
garage actually that was one of the one
of the schemes that I I played around
with um you know is the addition that
was put on you know actually I don't we
don't think it does does the existing
house actually any justice
architecturally speaking so have to have
just a an extension of of that really
proved to be difficult challenge to okay
I I just in the materials I just from
what he said about the size of the house
and the number of people there I was
like I was wonder if they could get two
car in there but okay it's a great
question is there anyone in the audience
that is for or against this matter
wishes to speak okay thank you I don't
see any indication of
that all right I mean
it's it's a fairly as you say egregious
intrusion into the into the setback on
the other hand this is a very
unusual
situation the lot way it sits
Etc the the the Topography is also
interesting
there anybody have any thoughts
or are we ready to call the
question sure I don't see any that's
good forther questions so so move
shik oh wait finding God bless hold on
I'm in charge here really stealing my
thunder no really his and mine too he
must have somewhere to be later tonight
he might want he might want be he might
want to be the chairman of the board
yeah all right you ready yes ma'am is it
okay for us to just do these together
this it is in this case yes um the
findings in fact in conclusions of law
for application number Bap 2441 for
property located at 2111 Park Hill that
a variance that based on the testimony
presented the board finds it appropriate
to Grant a certificate of
appropriateness and an 8 foot 6 inch
area variance to encroach into the
street side sidey yard setback for a new
attached single Bay garage Edition with
the conditions of the design changes
stated in the recommendation of the
architecture review
board okay does that sound satisfactory
to
you thank you Mr SCH all right do I have
a motion to approve the findings of fact
conclusions of law so move
turnor is there a second second you said
8 foot6 inches but no 18
okay I was
like okay thanks sorry is it m
Tor second thank
you all right Mr Clinger please call the
role Mr shik yes Mr asra buner yes Mr
Turner uh yes I just have a quick side
note that I think this is the first time
that I've been on the board and voted on
a house in this General vicinity of Park
Drive and I think it's really weird that
we have two houses right there on the
same night I admit Park Hill I was like
where in the world is Park Hill I had to
look I had to look it up I know most the
street so um so yeah so just thank you
new part of new part of the neighborhood
new yes yes I vote Yes I walk past us
all the time Miss Dorne yes Mr Ashner I
already called you uh Mr rosenal yes Mr
Marsh yes chairman be I also vote Yes in
this situation and you're very
and the well I think it's only Varian we
got here so they
are
sorry congratulations and good job it's
a nice
project next case is bz ap- 24-42
involving 295 North cassingham the
applicant is Kieran Smith the owner is
Jennifer Zmuda the applicant is seeking
variances from Bexley city code section
12 62.0 4 to convert an existing garage
attached garage into a bonus room from
and from beex city code section 12 62.0
1A to convert the existing driveway into
parking
spaces all right sir your name Smith gon
do you swear or affirm the testimony
you'll give the board this evening be
the truth the whole truth is nothing but
the truth thank you very much all right
Mr
Kingler back to our favorite three
straight Corner Lots yeah right yep
exactly this corner lot is at the corner
of North cassingham in Maryland the
front door uh faces Maryland however the
original uh platted lot is uh the front
yard is off North cassingham it's in the
r six zoning District lot size is 65 by
150 um there's a 15 foot Street side
side yard setback on the Maryland um
Avenue side the sidey yard setback on
the North side is uh uh 6.67 feet
so this is a this is a strange one um
they want to convert the the garage to a
bonus room our parking code um says in
the r six zoning District you have to
have two off street parking areas um
exclusive of driveways so if you
eliminate the bonus room or you
eliminate the garage that eliminates the
two parking spaces and um If you
eliminate then they're eliminating the
driveway and they would like the two
parking spaces to be on the driveway um
now we've talked before our code does
not allow um driveways to be located in
the front yard that do not um access
rear yard parking however this is the
sidey yard um they don't have a driveway
in the front yard to access rear yard
parking um so um I was um the first
first time I I had seen this isn't it
not a drive l anymore if it doesn't go
to a garage correct it's not a driveway
anymore they want to convert it to meet
their required two parking spaces now
our garage code our demolition of our
garage code says detached you cannot
demolish a detached garage without a
approved plan for a new detached garage
but this is an attached
garage and Karen and I both spoke and
the change to it they're basically
taking out a garage door and putting in
three windows so we didn't feel it NE
necessary to go to ARB um so ARB had no
recom they did not see this just it is
coming to you and then it was a minor
architectural um approval from Karen but
if if all they if if we assume the
garage isn't a
garage what would what's the variance
for the parking spaces but they are but
they're providing parking spaces what's
wrong with these two why because the the
code doesn't I mean the code doesn't you
have to designate those as parking
spaces yeah yeah the the code the intent
of the code is to have rear yard parking
so if this were you know the front yard
but it's the side yard the intent of the
code is not to convert a driveway I get
that I understand that but I'm just
saying but I don't understand why they
need a variance I mean this
is if if they wanted to build this
tomorrow they could build this and they
or would they would need why would they
need a variance if they this there
another empty lot and they said here's
our plan that's not a garage that's the
bonus room and these are our two off
street parking spaces why would would
they need to they would have to have
rear yard parking and currently it's not
rear yard parking it's not cently side
yard because it's not a part it's so if
that thing moved currently it's not but
the with they convert the B yeah right
12 feet into the back what's the
backyard into the fenc area yeah just
like it is curb cut and all it'd be fine
I did ask if there was a plan for a
garage or some sort of parking area in
the backyard and they he did say yes
within you know a certain five years or
so but that's not in a
that's the intent she wants to one the
intent yeah and there is no alley here
the alley dead ends into uh Maryland
from the
south so that if if those two cars in
that driveway slide to my left 15 feet
so it's behind the bonus room there's no
then they would be totally fine well no
because the sidey
yard that's a side yard so it would have
to be behind the rear principal and out
of the side yard and and we consider the
side yard like that's the sidey yard
setback on a corner lot the sidey yard
runs it doesn't run to the rear part of
your house it runs all the way to the
rear property line here for our code so
I mean it it strikes me that what we've
got what we're approving here is a
parking lot in a setback is that okay
that's that would that is why I brought
that is why is before you no no the
question is does that require a variance
is the what we're saying here is we're
cons converting a driveway into parking
spaces but but if the question is the
parking space it's okay to convert his
driveway into a parking space maybe but
is it okay to be in the setback so
parking structures and parking lots per
our code are considered accessory uses
and accessory uses and accessory
structures are not allowed in the side
guard access uses instu accessory
structures
how language reads to me that's that
says more of a you know
a commercial parking lot this is this is
a driveway that they want to convert to
a parking to me this this was not I was
confused a little bit I me to me this is
not a parking structure it is a parking
space our code addresses parking spaces
um you
know I I would concur with you and and I
viewed it as a a parking space as an
accessory use to the structure and we
don't allow accessory uses in the sidey
yard um however this is corner lot and
you can see the you know what they're
trying to do here
yeah can
so I mean so what happens with the rule
of you can't have a driveway that
doesn't lead to a
garage you can't have a
driveway oh I can pull up the code you
you because it kind of reads you can't
have a driveway in the front yard that
doesn't lead to rear yard so the intent
of the code is you can't stop your
driveway in front of your house and just
have two parking spaces in front of your
house it has to lead to not necessarily
garage but two rear yard parking spaces
M but it doesn't say a driveway in the
sidey yard it says a
driveway um IT addresses the front yard
well their front yard is up here have a
quick question is this would would you
consider this existing
non-conforming
point no because that's not a parking
space the car closest to the street
shouldn't by code ever be there correct
it's not existing nonconforming because
you have two parking spaces in a garage
you have you have a you have an attached
garage you have them in the garage those
are considered your parking
spaces and even if it was a one car
garage you could count the car garage
and the spot the car we see would be the
two I mean you
can so can I ask a question about one of
your drawings there's a drawing that has
is that the current state of it and it's
under there's like two but there's two
plan pages so the the first one with the
red on it the red Dash lines that's the
demo plan so that is the existing
conditions and the one right below at
the next following page is what the
intent is to do okay the one with the
car on it is the demo exactly okay got
it that's all I wanted to know thanks
but but you're not demoing the car
itself demo that okay so is that a one
car garage it's it's I think it's
technically like one and a half yeah
it's a it's a tight F so then if it's a
onecar garage then it already has one
place on the parking p
which I guess I understand is conforming
it's inside the side so then you just
want one
more excuse
me okay is there anybody here that's for
or against this
application you're oh you're for it
because you're you're the owner okay
fair enough
all right um I mean yeah I'm I'm sorry I
did put that on there 12 62.4 no spaces
is or any portion of a driveway that
does not access a rear yard parking
space or garage shall be located in the
front yard it does not say shall be
located in the sidey
yard so but IT addresses this this
portion of the code
addresses whether or not you can have a
driveway in the front yard that that
there's a the other portion of the code
when you get to an accessory use and
accessory structure um says that it
can't be an accessory use cannot be
located in the sidey so I guess that was
the portion that I was confused about as
non-conforming because that driveway an
ideal situation would be way off to the
sidey right because it's right Bexley
they come on the side yeah I guess I
guess what I'm saying is it's I don't
know how relevant it is but I'm just
saying that the driveway is currently
just not performing as it is right
unless and I wrestled with that too I
mean because I looked up well you know
we always talk about well what's the
actual front yard and um we W you know
the code says it's how it was originally
platted or if there's a call to question
the board determines what the front yard
is okay so in your picture like of where
the cars are parked yeah can they Park
Side by Side in that driveway get
me can't go back to
me so technically they could park side
by side and they wouldn't be then in
this the area we're concerned about it
might be a tight um we Define a parking
space n nine by 18 so it would have to
be 18 18t long as well thank you 9 by 18
9 by 18 got it you know what the WID is
18t long 9 it's
on so it's 12 foot6 driveway
widthwise so a 9 foot parking space is
going to take up yeah
I'm sorry chairman we've got new ones no
don't worry don't worry don't worry it's
me it's not the machine there
go did they order new ones oh no it's a
brand new one we haven't officially set
up we haven't officially set up yet I
tried to get them on the Internet to
Dropbox versus the app and we we got
four new iPads not enough Chargers
so even
if cars park side by side there would
still be a variance involved here is the
V sorry um the variants would change but
yes because one of them would be in
front of the back of the house yeah it's
no it's it's not rear yard
because now technically it's rear
yard because it's a garage which is not
a living space and the rear yard starts
that back corner is the closest living
space so that so right now that living
space starts right there so
that's you
know their side yard goes all the
way from front to
back so they need six more feet to widen
it they need at least 18 feet yeah yeah
five and a half
so once again I'm kind of worried about
the I mean I think as you look at the
photograph of the place you know there's
a big fence that comes out to the street
and I assume that's that's your fence on
that lot right and so the fact that
you're parking two cars
stacked uh you can't even see it coming
from the direction toward the house from
the West
but I mean you know you start getting
into okay can you park a car in a non
driveway in the sidey yard setback and
what kind of precedent does that set I I
don't know you know I share that concern
I mean again the reality of it doesn't
bother me in this case for all those
reasons but
I committing to Forever having cars
parked in what amounts to yards even if
it's on a driveway is a bummer I mean
yeah conceptually I think people do that
all the time yes 100% I think they do
too they do it just becomes an
Enforcement issue this way it's right
technically not enforceable right in
this case there is no
right okay here we go
again
uh are there any additional I mean I
don't think there's any questions about
what's Happening Here is there or any
confusion so it's just a matter whether
it is
uh approval approved by the board or not
so with that in mind does anybody object
to calling the
question all right Karen can we have
findings and fact and conclusions of law
yep the findings and fact and
conclusions of law for application
number Bap
24-42 for the property located at 295
north
cassingham um based on the testimony
presented the board finds it appropriate
to Grant a variance from Bexley code 12
62.0 to convert an existing attached
garage into a bonus room and from Bexley
code section 12620 onea to convert the
existing driveway into parking
spaces okay does that accurately depict
what we're doing here all
right um do I hear a motion to approve
findings of fact conclusions
so moved Asel Runner Mr Asel Runner
thank you is there a second please
second shik thank you Mr
shik all right Matt why don't you call
the RO we'll see what happens here Mr
Rosenthal I am a no Mr
Turner um I'm a no as well uh the reason
for my no is I believe that I would
probably vote Yes if the cars could be
side by side in front of the garage but
I don't I don't like the fact that it's
sitting in the city right away so that's
my reasoning for
now sidey yard setback yeah I would
reate that what not city right we're
they're not in the right away they're
just in the sidey yard setback in the
setback sorry I just wanted yeah yeah
thanks for the clarity no worries
uh Mr Ash
Runner no I share Mr Turner's concerns
Miss
Dorne no I I age I think if they were
side by side it it would
change Mr schik for the following
reasons no Mr
Marsh no chairman behall my vote's
totally
irrelevant as usual I'll vote Yes No I
vote no I vote no I'm just joking I
agree with the analysis of setting a bad
president for the sidey guard setback I
mean I just I just think it's a bad
precent to set and I think there's other
ways to get where you're going
there so anyway I may chairman yes just
for the record yes you all vote no for
sort of for pretty much the same reasons
from what I gathered yeah my vote for no
is the same as Mr Turner's explanation
now I know on these no votes we we have
to almost have a new motion and that
motion is um that we disapprove of the
findings of fact conclusions of law
whereupon if you vote Yes to disapprove
you have to State your reasons so that
there's a a u record against which they
can appeal the decision so if you do not
mind let's can we have a motion that's
that says we disapprove of the findings
effect conclusions of law
please Mar thank you Mr Marsh all right
once again please call the role uh Matt
and if you vote Yes in favor of this
motion to disapprove yes to disapprove
then State your reasons
Please Mr
Rosenthal yes uh and really just has to
do with the presedent of creating a
situation where the only option is to
have a car parked in the sidey yard
effectively permanently which as we
discussed seems like there's ways where
you know you could get that car into a
code compliant location or you know
build a garage or um
so miss
Dorne uh yes I don't I don't disagree
with converting the garage into
a a bonus room um but I I don't agree
with putting the garage in the or the
car in the setback or a parking spot in
setback I think you know there are like
we said different ways around that and
um that's why I voted that
way Mr
Turner um how about yes for the same
reasons as the previous people if I need
to State it I will state it um don't
need that's adequate to say what that
you're you believe there reasons are
your reasons yes Mr aser yes there
reasons are also my reasons Mr Marsh
yeah yes their reasons are also my
reasons Mr shik yes their reasons are
also my reasons and chairman
behall I vote Yes and my reasons are
also the same that the president is is
not a good one to set thank you sorry
about your defeat but you might be able
to figure something out here to get
yourself where you're going thank you
very much K and call me if you have any
questions once we turn that bonus room
into a living structure then we got the
rear yard moves back but we can help I
can try to help you figure something out
well we can't do any work we can't do
any work on it as is right we need right
if you if you change where the parking
is if the parking goes to the rear yard
yeah would need a VAR oh correct yeah
but yeah if you have any questions just
call me that's all I was saying yeah
thank you all right the next case is
case b zap 24- 45 involving 333 North
Park View
and the applicant is Matt North the
owner is Jimmy Conroy the the applicant
is Seeking a 30 foot height variance
from Beckley city code section 12 64.0 2
to invol install pardon me a 6 foot tall
black steel fence in the front yard of
this of this
property sir your name Matt North Mr
North do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give the board
this evening the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth thank you very
much all right Matt this sounds like
it's one of
yours I was gonna mention
that it's a 30 inch or did I say foot
yeah that would be quite a fence 30 feet
quite be building a building the wall
have one of those things the kids climb
up you
know um thank you chairman Beall um this
property located at 33 3 33 North Park
View is in the R1 zoning it's um one of
our larger Lots interior lot 143t wide
by 223 feet deep uh 12
64.0 C says you um are not allowed to
have um a front yard fence taller than
42 in um this fence that they're
proposing is a six foot fence there it
will have a minimum of 50% transparency
as it's I believe a black rot iron seal
fence uh we do require landscape plans
with that the landscape plan I just
wanted to clarify it's not it's going to
be behind these trees that are on the
screen right okay I thought that was the
case um you sent this over and I didn't
know if they were building this or not
is they're going to but that has nothing
to do with right us okay the best comp
so that part is yeah 100% sure on what
they're going to do with that but it is
behind trees behind these trees okay
great um the location of the fence is is
on your screen I think there was a
little bit of fencing in the back but
that doesn't apply to this variance so I
I left that kind of off or I actually
put it in your packet but that's this is
the variance that you're um is before
you tonight the location of this fence
um and there's a picture of the
fence pretty pretty straightforward yep
I think it
is questions or comments for members of
the
board it's steel not
aluminum
yeah is there anybody in the audience at
all there is not I don't see so there
couldn't be anybody comment thanks for
Stan yeah I he's a big guy couldn't see
behind him you
know all right um do we have any
comments or questions from the members
of the board if not any objection to
calling the question if not I don't see
any par findings in fact and conclusions
of law for
application one question
sorry and say that again is there a
reason why it is taller than 42
inches wanted to do
like I guess he was having deer issues
coming into the front yard eating his
bushes and I guess there was a break in
behind him and he's very I think he owns
a security company so he just wanted
something that deer and people would not
be able to scale
over not easily at
least does anybody remember the fence
that's farther south on Park VI how tall
that is the house they did all the work
on Cross room Miss fal's house I don't
remember what house is that a shift
house I
don't does anybody remember the fence we
approved one down there I just don't
remember how tall it was are you talking
about the Olson's house
I don't know I don't know who the owners
that had um a lot of brick wall too I
mean I don't know what the average I
mean I don't know what the height of the
fence this is the one on Park View kind
of across from laan yeah that's the
house
okay that's fun streaking I just didn't
remember I did Chairman if I could ask a
question actually didn't get an answer
are you installing a gate or is the
fence going across the driveway I forgot
that
I he is going to have the comp that does
the
gates oh gotcha okay thank
you part of
this okay thanks but that should be just
you might want to just mention it to the
owner it should still be an application
that comes through for just aesthetic
review okay yeah I have a question on up
against a private drive this property
runs pretty close to that private Drive
is there a set back from the
street no there's there's
not yeah you you I would highly suggest
and I tell this to everyone to get an
iron pin survey you don't want your
fence in the right of way and then have
a code violation and then you don't want
your fence it's it's you take on the
liability of where you install the fence
so you don't want it on that private
drives property okay I would suggest
that and I think they have they have it
i' have it they have it off and then
they have like a line running for the
whole proper line so that should be a
problem and I was give the advice at his
neighborly to let your neighbors know
you're putting up a
fence yeah recommend that remember last
all right umy game we have uh read the
findings of fact conclusions of law you
ready yes findings and fact and
conclusions of law for application
number Bap 2445 for the property located
at 333 North Park View based on the
testimony presented the board finds it
appropriate to Grant a variance from
Beckley code section section 12 64.0 2
to install a six foot tall black steel
fence in the front
yard all right do I hear a motion to
approve the findings of fact conclusions
of law so move
Marsh second please second Turner thank
you Mr
Turner Matt want to call the role thank
you chairman M
Dorne yes Mr schik yes Mr Marsh yes Mr
Rosenthal yes Mr Turner yes Mr Asner yes
and chairman behall I vote Yes as well
the variances are granted variance is
granted and good luck with it with the
30 foot fence thank
you 30 foot
I could ask one question before yes does
anyone on the board have major issues
with what happened tonight where ARB
moved it to you all without a
recommendation we've been doing that a
lot no past couple applications but we
have I just wanted to make sure there's
no major issue with that no no some
circumstances where I think it would be
pretty much a waste of their time yeah
that's what we thought on the last one I
mean I don't we don't we're not going to
try to do it all the time I just want to
make sure you guys were okay with that
that we did that might a good point of
discussion at the commission meeting on
Monday yeah you know good idea looking
for
topics if I was counseling someone I
think it shouldn't matter but human
nature being what it is something that
seems compelling and a great addition to
the
neighborhood architecturally is more or
if it comes with the strong endorsement
like the non-conforming garage we voted
on earlier it's easier I mean candidly
it's easier to Grant a variance for
something that comes with either clearly
so I'm saying if you bring something
that's a piece of crap and ARB punts and
it ends up in front of us I think
someone's setting themselves up for a
lot harder thing in my mind right that
would be the advice I would give
somebody it's
not legally a channel I'm describing I'm
just saying I think that's human nature
is when they when you said ARB Lov this
garage and they made a bunch of changes
to make it even awesomer that made me
more comfortable with that variance than
I would have been if it was clear that
ARB was like I don't know maybe they
won't get Bap approval and then we don't
have to you know argue with these people
anymore set off my neighbor gotcha
understood I think we would always
encourage people to
do
the not well designed or not thoroughly
designed I should say that we hunt here
first well I think the the Mother-in-law
Suite is got some serious
architectural aspects to it I'm not
going to say what I think because it
doesn't matter but I think that might be
a bigger hurdle than than this even
though I do think it's kind
of dangerous to um
to reformulate
the
request here yeah you know and and say
Hey you know if we move it's a matter of
moving walls and that kind
of well reasoning yeah but I think what
we what it was more like what Karen said
it was more like this is poorly worded
it's not we're imagining something
that's not in front of us it was really
the ask should have been this not
that I'm 100% in agreement with what
well I voted know anyway but with what
you're saying about like imagine this
wall is not there we move it here I feel
like we I cannot I'm not being paid to
imagine well at this let's face it it
was a big living room yeah just you know
well
just thank thank you that's all I just
want to make sure nobody yeah you guys
we're on the same page and there's not
so there is something going on with
trying to further Define in-law suites
is that true we need to we're um yeah I
mean land use land use commission is
currently meeting right now and they're
been several recommendations um from the
public and from that commission um to
investigate accessory dwellings which is
why I mentioned currently is not
accessory dwell so are they leaning
towards yes has there been discussion
about letting them be Apartments there's
been yeah discussion with guard rails
basically certain guard rails has done
that around the code language um
Columbus is allowed above garage
apartments and in uh honestly a lot of
that uh planning or what is it the land
use commission a lot of it was fueled by
uh public input in the public he I think
it was a surprising level of support
among people who came to several
meetings to say we think that's like
something we would are interested in
seeing happen in backley which I think
everyone was surprised and I think a lot
of it is not necessarily apartments that
you're going to rent out above garages
it's exactly what was here tonight and
and to be um to give a lot of credit to
Ben he
mayor Kessler he I don't know how many
of you were there but we had a a
gentleman a professor I think from or
Oregon yeah come in and and give a
lecture about adus I mean it's a huge
National Trend and it's a it's a good
way it's a very productive way to deal
with the housing shortage so it's it's
nationally it's been going on for a long
time that was about a year ago I that
was the one at Jeffrey right yeah that
was a great event was a great
presentation um I don't think it would
be a mistake to repeat that or put it on
YouTube if we have it if if this moves
forward so people can understand what
we're talking about because it it's a
very it's all over the building
magazines and you know in our profession
you see it I just read those articles I
think we should uh uh entertain a motion
to to um adjourn the meeting and then we
can turn mics off and have further
discussion all in favor of adjourning
the meeting say
I meeting is
adjourned
have I just said end right