e
e e
eron are you ready almost
okay oh we got more too
all
right we'll call to order
the September 2024 meeting of the Bexley
Board of zoning and planning
Matt you want to call a role of the
members present please thank you
chairman Mr Turner here Mr Rosenthal
here Mr Levine here Mr Marsh here misss
Dorne here Mr schik here and chairman
behall I'm here as well thank you very
much we have a
quorum has uh there been a a u review of
the minutes of the August meeting
are there any comments
or suggested deletions or modifications
from any member of the
board if not do I hear a motion to
approve the minutes of the August
meeting as provided so moved Marsh thank
you Mr Marsh second second thank you Mr
Turner all in favor of approving the
minutes as submitted say I I all opposed
the motion carries unanimously I need to
abstain okay thank you Mr Line
abstains This is an opportunity for the
public to make comments about the
business of the board of zoning and
planning not with regard to any
particular case but just in general is
anybody here wish to make any general
comments I see no indication of such
unless you were no I be careful on
auction you know what they say um um all
right which moves us to the old business
portion actually we have new business
that uh want to bring up here so that we
can other business chairman other
business yeah if we could absolutely
thank you and what case would that be on
our docket somewhere down
here oh it's under other business at the
bottom okay good yeah the grant program
okay good so this has to do with Bexley
commercial Rehabilitation grant program
application
2468 for 24 and
2474 East Main Street DBA XL
karate Matt or or mayor why don't you
fill us in on the uh nature of this
request thank you chairman Beall and um
Karen if you could pull open in the
subfolder the Grant application PDF
please um so this is for the Excel
karate studio as you know the the city
administers a facade grant for um Main
Street Properties as well as cidy
properties that we offer to Property
Owners um we offer up to 35% of the ex
expense associated with exterior
improvements to the property including
Landscaping signage uh site improvements
Etc uh this is the latest um to come
before you guys and part of our process
is the bap reviews it and votes to
approve the grant um it's it's I think
it's a sort of a control against just
making sure it's something that's
fitting with uh what we're doing in
general um this is a pretty modest Grant
application uh it is if you see in the
subfolder there's a Grant application
that shows and this is Karen I think
it's in a different folder that I'm I'm
referring to that's fine it's fine I
mean it's straightforward there's going
to they're proposing uh replacing the
bike mural with a kickboxer karate mural
I think staff's going to work to sort of
refine that drawing just a little bit um
and uh the other proposal is to replace
the signage with The Branding of the new
business um and you can see that in in
the subfolder as well the km karate
signage it is a $2,400 project in total
uh so the facade Grant would be for
$840 uh it has received recommendation
of our development director
who has already put in plenty of evening
meetings this week and so I'm covering I
am the associate of Megan Meyer for this
meeting and uh we just ask that the B
app approve this Grant and I'm happy to
answer your
questions all right do we need to let
anybody from the app actual applicant uh
speak or not I think we have oh we do
here hell how are
you and I'm sorry if I said the wrong
thing when I said kickboxing
would you like to come forward even as I
said like I know I'm using the wrong
term T would you like to come to the
microphone here at the at
the board member she first of all please
don't beat me up we have to swear you in
if you'd raise your right hand you swear
or affirm that any testimony you give
the board this evening be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth
please state your
name Kelly what what uh is happening
here and why do you want to do the thing
that the that the uh city is uh offering
to give you a grant
for right on the device itself if I
could just interject Bard um you're
hearing the actual proposal for the
signage later in the meeting this is
speaking specifically to the grant oh
okay the Grant application which yeah
okay right so I I wasn't sure to thank
you for clarifying that
um um do I address something tell us
about your business a little bit so
you're going to have to tell us
eventually anyhow so we just relocated
from Broad Street um very excited to be
on Main Street and our the karate school
I think when people think of a karate
school they think of a very small
business um we have 160 families
enrolled uh the majority I think the
last statistic was 92% of those are from
Bexley uh we are primarily a Children's
Program however we do have an adult
program for their some of their parents
so it's a program limited to parents our
students uh coming into Bexley was huge
for us uh on a daily basis now without
fail I have had children standing at the
windows um coming into the school asking
questions I think you guys might know
Cobra Kai is really big on YouTube right
now uh so I feel like in a a very unique
way we have brought children to Main
Street which besides Chipotle and
Starbucks there's not a whole lot for
them uh we also see thanks to R uh the
bike rack is you know being used again
children are riding their bikes to
practice uh I'm super proud of our
program I think it's one of the very few
programs that has come into Bexley
specifically serving Bexley families and
keeping the parents from having to drive
to Westerville or Gana um so that's a
little bit about our business I mean I'm
absolutely thrilled to be here I feel
like we are going to add a lot of value
to Main Street very good and and I can
also attest the space is beautiful what
you've done with the studio is amazing
and it is really wonderful to have you
thank you I I I'll be honest with you
guys I was a little concerned um that
people would think it was going to be a
I mean listen I'm a Bexley resident I
love Main Street it's incredible what we
have done and when people hear karate
they don't really understand what it is
and I think they do have this kind of
weird image of a 1985 karate school with
the blacked out windows and the and the
marker on the W you know and the
trophies things that would look really
tacky and I was pretty excited to get
the uh paper off of the windows and
people in and show them it's gorgeous
like it really is a beautiful addition
and um very excited to be able to share
that with everyone and Kelly what would
the technical term be for the silhouette
that I probably misnamed as a it it
really is it's just a karate it's a
karate kiit it's a of a karate pick
there you go some of the board members
may want to enroll to protect ourselves
from some of the cases we have to handle
you know you know what we're good at
that
so all right uh does anybody have any
questions or comments I think we're
going to hear more later but I thought
it would be good to get a little
background
here is this your logo did you come up
that or how does that happen Okay so no
um we wanted to come up with something I
mean obviously Ro had a bike um it's
very difficult to get something that is
instantly identifiable when you have a
karate school um if you silhouette
things out like there might be a really
great picture of somebody standing in a
traditional karate stance but when you
silhouette that out you can't tell what
that person is doing so the kick is
really the only identifiable marker of
what we do um interestingly that is me
at 24 years old and we had that so
couple years ago that was a long time
ago I mean it's G to take a lot of yoga
classes to get back there but um you
know but it wasn't and I and I just want
to make this so clear it it is not a
vanity thing for me there's a lot of
photos inside that actually have my face
on them it's just the we went through a
lot of different photos and it was the
only one that just besides the Karate
Kid crane kick which we that would just
be so 1980s tacky uh that was all we
could really come up with that made it
obvious what it was uh yeah that's it
very good all right thank you very
much I don't know do we have to have
findings of fact and conclusions of law
I don't think so it's a simple motion to
approve the use of the facade Grant
funds for the the state purpose all all
right do I hear such a motion still
moved Marsh thank you Mr Marsh second
Turner thank you Mr
Turner all in favor say I I all oppose
nay the motion carries unanimously thank
you thank you the grant is approved from
at least our perspective I don't know
what other approvals it needs but now
you have to rev the
actual all
right very good all right which brings
us back to Old business which uh
involves the first case application bz
ap-
24-28 also filed under bz app-
24-31 involving 490 to 492 North Cassidy
the applicant is Dad Khan and the owner
is Bob Marshall the applicant is Seeking
a special permit and a variance from
beic code section 12
5417 to allowed a food trailer cart
accessory use of structure to be
permanently installed in the sidey yard
of 490 North Cassidy would the applicant
please come
forward chairman if I
may we we um the applicant reached out
to me specifically and was going to be
out of town and asked I think believe
it's his father yeah it could speak for
him today and I I granted I I said that
was okay the traveling I mean you know
the problem we have is that people uh
would send an agent
and but ordinarily have to be an
attorney to represent some other human
being or some other entity and we went
through this last time but I think we
can get through this without much input
from you except for perhaps you you
would be able to speak if you were a
member of the general public so you can
certainly speak in that vein one way or
the other but your name
is and you swear or affirm that the
testimony you give today will be the
truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth thank
you all right Matt why don't you refresh
our Recollections or uh you can uh
there's some people that might not have
been seated last time this was before
us yeah so I'm I brought Jason sui for
us he's our city planner staff I brought
him on board he's been working on this a
lot and uh I will caveat that with we
met with um the applicant and the
applicant's brother and his father Megan
Meyer and myself and talked through some
things maybe some options so you know
options are on the table and and we're
work we're still working with them
actively but I will let uh Mr sui sort
of give the staff report is Mr Su is is
Jason's Dad here somewhere no
Jason sorry
Jason
Jason I
will it's unusual doesn't fit
and you know with this Main Street lot
of figure out in that circumstance one
of the challenges here isation based
on
puts and because of that and that it is
requested through our
valuation we
deter then
is that we have AIT circumstance that
allows administrative
approv food trsin the city of the issue
that those are
note to that what we had done the other
application that was on we're also
recing here is that also the en to
deter so that's again where we are
those not much
device electric probably
electric gas the app AG that whatever
the part that's a little bit more
difficult
to is that if you were
ask and was being built today have
FL all of
those standards specific to this
SC the difficulty of course is that you
know we have a lot of Grandfather uses
that are still in place along this and
other streets that don't need all
because those were not
stand C
for something that is otherwise not
allowed here how many of those standards
does think are necessary to I know
that's difficult because it's very in an
easy spot in between grandfather use and
from staff perspective a lot Vari me
they have to meet some very specific
crer
and that's up to you I think from our
perspective
our perspec
Happ answer questions
I have a
question let's say they don't get a
variance to put a permanent accessory
structure in a sidey guard what what are
the rules about them being there every
Thursday or something like that Matt I'm
sorry I can take that one we do have it
in our code as it's it's titled A mobile
food cart I'm currently working on new
food truck ordinance but this would this
would apply as a mobile food cart and
they would apply for a permit and it
would be done administratively through
our office and they would say what days
and times that they're requesting to be
there and we would review that and work
with them to work on the days and times
or approve it and then as long as it is
gone every the time they say they're
going to leave and they could come back
the next you know the next day or you
know as long as they adhere to those um
dates and times that they're allowed to
serve that's perfectly fine but but that
would mean it would they would have to
take the cart Mobile in a mobile fashion
off of the lot bring it back the next
day I see correct it would be it would
be like any other food truck you see
anywhere in Columbus or anywhere but if
they wanted to have it
there a week is that a
problem we do not currently um regulate
it's more of uh a request an application
and a request and then an approval so
but our our code doesn't specify um
durations and times there would be
nothing to stop you guys stop us from
just saying I mean they're being
forthright and saying we're not really
planning to take it away but if they
change the request to say it's it's not
permanent it's but it's here for a while
we're gonna see how it works and that
might that while might be a year that
was one of the options that Megan and I
we talked about in the meeting was hey
do you you know do you want to proof of
concept this thing and have it three
days a week and see if it works or
whatever um and so they were mauling
that over I owed them a phone call after
and I I apologize them I didn't have a
chance to call before this meeting um I
did do that research and um and let him
know before the meeting that that is the
case there's no definition of permanent
versus temporary right the one thing
though I caution is certainly when you
get into a period of like a year that
really in our mind starts to get into
accessory structure so again this is at
the Bo's discretion I think because the
way the code speaks to both of these
things it seems very clear that the
intent of the food cart portion of the
code is not meant to be something that
would be there you know 24 hours a day
for a long duration of time now you may
interpret that differently but from a
staff perspective we think that that's
starting to get an accessory structure
and reason why we're concerned not so
much about this particular case but in
general that kind of loosens up what
what can be sitting on a site if you
don't officially call it an accessory
structure and then you can get a problem
of you know
unregulated extensions of buildings
businesses without having G through that
that but I guess just conversely the
last food truck we talked about not long
ago I felt like the board myself
included spent a lot of time saying well
is there some way we can keep checking
in and the city can keep checking in and
the answer was well you either say yes
or no but then it just falls into basic
code enforcement but this sounds like
well there is an alternative which is to
say it could be an ongoing I mean if the
board wanted to the board could say it
you know it's temporary and then you're
I mean because to me a little bit I'm
not following you well I mean we went
there was a lot of discussion about well
well let's check let's say it's for a
year and then we'll check back and the
answer we got from legal council was you
cannot do it for a year it's either they
either it goes to the site they either
get it or they don't it's not a ongoing
conversation other other than code
violations the two cases are a little
bit different but certainly in this case
you couldn't Grant a variance and say
we'll take the variance right so but you
could say they could say well all fine
it's not permanent it's just here for a
while and my question to coincide with
that is what if they came in and said we
we're gonna We want a temporary
structure will be there every morning at
6:00 amm will be gone every every day at
midnight then what happens and we want
to be there seven days a week by the way
yeah that's an administrative review and
so what what would be the history of
granting re that kind of request
none no history honestly we we know
history no history I should I
shouldn't no history to that effect the
historical
um evidence of food trucks in Bexley
would be for main events or special
special events right that's when we
Grant the permit for them to be there
from 4 to 10 on Main Street or cter
wherever it is that's that's for one day
for one night whatever and that's that's
what it's set up for um and the spe
that's the spirit of the code I would I
would also say to to your point and
exess with the Main Street one that
wasn't a variance really because it was
an accessory structure is it was semi-
it was in the rear of the property so it
was more of a special permit with
conditions as opposed to this is in the
and we've we've talked to through the
options and they they technically I
think you were going to look into they
could go in the rear of the property
they would have to be 10 feet off of
the you know the closest wall of
business and then still maintain right
of way I think three feet off the right
of way there but um I don't know if that
was going to work but that was one of
the options that we threw out if they
move it around the corner and then if
they stuck up a sign of course that
would come before you guys or staff so
there's there's options that we worked
through but that's the main difference
between the Main Street one that you
guys just looked at and then this one
this is a variance for a sidey guard all
right can we because we're talking about
everything but maybe the most important
thing in that is can we see a picture
again of how close it is to the
residential structure that's on the side
street there please yeah while while
they're pulling it up I've got a couple
questions we didn't have I'm sorry
that's okay I'll ask Jason his first the
screening it what's the height of it and
if it's on the sidey yard would it have
to be the same height or would it be
different well you you could make it
different if you want but what's
code is
techer so whether or not and that's
Jason to earlier kind we would be
looking to you to make what
those okay but this the Lang it's
designed to screen headlamps I mean it's
not has nothing to do with not yeah so
so it's basically so cars headlights
don't shine off the property but it has
nothing to do with this not in a food
truck and then two other questions and
these are more for Matt um one or this
might be Jason as
well if we permit this is is this can
they swap trucks out like like are we
permitting this specific truck could
they pull it out and bring a truck in
that's twice the size like like what
what I'll answer my part and then answer
his part my for my part all I'm
recommending is that they can have no
more than one food truck at a time so
from the zoning side it would have no
control over if they swwa them now from
the committing
side put that criteria there I guess
yeah from from and from my zoning
perspective this is an accessory
structure so if you we look at it no
differently than a garage okay so if
you're tearing down a garage and putting
up a new gar
you need to come back to ARB or Bap or
whatever so it would be a different
accessory structure okay and then the
last question I have is because it's
going to be tied via utilities to the
side of the building does it constitute
being attached to the building as
opposed to being an accessory
structure basically basically I'm asking
if they kind of attach the truck to the
building is it no longer an accessory
struct structure because right now it's
going to be attached the utilities
between gas Water and Electric attached
structure again
reason there's usually an architural
feature that physically attaches the
building not mechanically so if they
build an awning from the truck over to
the building like basically we do with
garages and
houses
yeah sorry again we're in New Territory
so I wouldn't consider the Mechanicals
the electric connection that a physical
architectural connection again it would
be no like it would be no different than
the garage you have electric running out
to your garage it's attached from your
house so that doesn't physically attach
it to the house it would have to be some
sort of structural feature um that like
but a roof connecting them would would
make it a that's how we that's how yeah
yep okay I have a question um has this
been um I guess has anything gone out to
the neighbors in this yet and we had any
response from the neighbor well we were
about to ask that question but yes all
meet all meetings are noticed to the
neighbors within
commercial reminder yeah it's 300 feet
for commercial we did it you guys tabled
it to a date certain so we knew it was
going to come up this time and then we
did not Ren notify this time but the
first time last month it was yes all to
300
feet did we have any oh let's let's ask
is there anybody here to comment on this
application tonight Pro or con okay
thank you I'll get to you here in a
second all right I think we you had a
beautiful view a few seconds ago right
there or even of where we
are in this one you can't see a house
but the one beforehand you can see a
house there you
go that's a beautiful view right there
to to get to the most difficult issue is
that the dumpster right there also
there
okay all right
and is there is is the concept that
people will drive up and park get out of
their car or walk of course that's
another alternative if anybody walks
anywhere anymore or ride their bikes
there whatever but the point of the
matter is that it's going to involve
certain amount of traffic where where is
parking available for people that might
come and utilize
this and that would be in the front of
the building which also Services what
the business that's in front of those
vehicles and what is that
business yeah they don't have all of
their parking surface striped which
could be a recommendation if you wanted
to make that you can see there actually
is and this that's a great shot right
there it is actually the full width of
what would be two head in base plus the
Center Drive aisle they really could
strike all of those on the other side on
the left side so they have excess
parking capacity and they also would get
the credit for the you know spaces if
they wanted to stripe them in the back
and consolidate their dumpsters so even
if that space is full and it's the
additional square footage there in
Access any requir park game for would
they have to screen if we did the screen
would they have to screen the entire lot
even though they're occupying only half
the building well that again is really
at your discretion it's it's one of
these things where if they were
expanding the building by a significant
amount then we would trigger all of
these py contrs since they're not
expanding the building and they're it's
really up to you if they weren't asking
for a variance you know probably be much
more standard but this business is open
at the same time that the food truck
would be doing
business so does the city have a
position I mean to me if I close my eyes
you say I'm going to put a permanent
thing on the south side of this building
that's going to be a commercial kitchen
that's going to be plumbed and and wired
permanently it's not going anywhere that
to me sounds like an addition to the
building it just happens to be a
pre-fabricated addition to the building
that's on Wheels but I mean to me the
problem and then I think all of a sudden
There's issues about like sidey yard
setback and you know how much how much
glass can there be on the side of this
thing and rated construction and Ada
issues and definitely is not not an
addition to the building it's definitely
an accessory structure by
because it's not attach now whether or
not you think that that accessory
structure need to have glass and full
architecture is totally a different
discussion um but I would I'm I in the
history of how we've interpreted this
I'm confident that it is an accessory
structure but it's a structure it's not
a truck anymore I guess that's my point
so as being not a truck now it's a
building isn't it a building code
issue and for examp I mean just as one
example how you know if it's a building
code if it has to go to the building
department
and it's not a food truck per se you
know Ada is the first thing that comes
to mind it's like well why doesn't it
meet Ada if they were putting a
restaurant in the building it would have
to meet 88 and so I guess
yeah I don't understand whether or not
that does it have to
be the exterior of the
building Matt you have a comment well I
don't think you get to pick and choose I
think it has to have bath you know the
bathroom if it's restaurant or food
service operation that has have
bathrooms which I assume we're saying
are the ones inside the dairy mark which
is fine but I mean to me it's either it
either is its own freestanding thing or
it's operating in conjunction with the
rest of the building and if it's
operating in conjunction with the
building it seems to me it's potentially
changing the use of the building I mean
it just seems like there's a whole
building code review that if it's
permanent it should be happening can I
bring a previous experience to the table
on this uh previously I was a the
assistant building director assistant
director for building and Zoning service
serves for the city of Columbus in 2014
and 2015 when the food trucks and then
uh on top of that the um the shipping
containers became very big and we had a
really big incident with um big issue
with it with Mikes downtown in the short
North they own two lots that are
adjacent to one another and they wanted
to build an outside structure and it
took nine months and it just basically
came down to it's a quasi building and
so but fire wanted to treat it
appropriately but I just wanted to throw
that out too that one that was only food
service with no interior bathrooms they
actually have jobs outside which I'm
not the issue was the utilties going
across the property lines and so I mean
are we kind of talking about more of a
permanent like a permanent permit for a
food truck rather than actually I mean
isn't that kind of what they seem to be
asking for because it's still going to
be mobile right I mean is that the idea
because they are proposing to never move
it which that
in our mind triggers it as an acccessory
structure but it could be moved right I
mean that's
thetically take it off I mean soak it a
shed a shed is an accessory structure
yeah I mean I mean it seems to me the
problem is we don't have anything in the
code today that I mean it's a food truck
that's what they want to do but we don't
really have anything so we're we're left
with this gray area um I I'd like to
hear from the public yeah I would too
yeah so trying to get through all this
technical questioning I if I could just
a couple I heard a couple questions Mr
Rosen thought if I could just respond
there is no sidey setback for in the MU
District so that does not that doesn't
really apply to this um of course right
of way and all that that applies but and
then second with when it comes to
inspections and permitting we require
all of the food checks that come into
the city go get at least we kind of
piggy back off Columbus and there's a
they do it at Groves Road where they get
certified license fired checks them out
and then we have our own fire inspector
who's also our code enforcement
inspector Dave her Lia goes out and
inspects uh the food trucks before
operation now I don't know if that would
be daily I'd have to talk to Dave and
and so I just wanted to address those
before we got too far down the road and
forgot about questions so sorry all
right any other questions for members of
the board of the staff if not uh I would
like have the gentleman who's here oh
I'm sorry I'm Rick are we to concern
ourselves with the appearance of the
truck I any
pictures colors it's there now oh it is
well it's it has been moved it was there
for about four months and we we were
working on it was it was not code
compliant so we asked them to move it
and they they moved it it was a code
enforcement
um sorry I thought yeah no it was it was
there for about three or four months um
I don't I don't have any pictures they
didn't Supply any with their
packet just one quick question I don't
know whether you remember this or not
but
the loot box or the Zoot box or whatever
it was that sat in front of in the gas
station parking lot I mean that was
there for a relatively long time what
how what was the process to get that
thing
approved I would have to call Kathy Rose
and the mayor and ask the May
talking maybe you have historical data
on
it but it was definitely presented as a
temporary yeah I me did it come did it
come before the board because I don't
yes I wasn't on the board then it
definitely came before the board I
remember remember looking at it both I
think both in ARB and in Bap okay I
think it was a temporary where was it
located on Cassidy the senior center is
in the parking parking was like a half a
container it was like a portable office
yeah all right uh members of the public
we had a one hand in the back sir would
you please come forward let him have the
microphone if you would
sir state your name please Carl Holman
Carl would you swear or affirm that the
testimony you give the board this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth thank
you sir tell us what your thoughts are
about this request for variance and
special permit it's long overdue I I
live one block away I'm one of the ones
who' probably walk there every day to
get a nice Kebab or schwarma from from
the truck I think it's for where I live
in in this in this portion of of Bexley
I think we we need that option if if I
want to keep my tax dollars in Bexley
for food I have to go all the way down
to Main Street my nearest option is
Panera which is Columbus I want Broad
Street yeah exactly I I I I I want
something where I can walk at six
o'clock at night I'm a little hungry I
want to walk right up there and I want I
want to get my food and I think the
community around us you know would like
that as well I mean you have you know a
lot of Apartments a lot of traffic that
goes through there I think it's long
overdue as an option up there I me the
only other option we really have is the
coffee shop which is maybe open from 8
to noon if if if Maria wants to open
that
day
let's I think I think it'll Revitalize
you know this portion of the the Cassidy
Corridor so I couldn't be more than
happy I mean I I was walking by all
summer keep asking like when are you
goingon to open that cart when you so I
couldn't be more excited all right sir
how much schwarma where you
promised well I mean I I I I lived in
Turkey for 18 years oh God all right
know I have a hankering for it yeah
that's funny I I know I know what a good
Kebab or good schwarm at night means so
thanks for coming out thanks for coming
though and giving us your perspective we
appreciate you're taking the time to do
so all right any factual questions you'd
like to ask uh the the gentleman who was
standing up there the father of zad con
I take it I guess we've sort of talked
about is there currently a
specific proposal on the table as to
what will and won't be done I mean
normally what would happen is someone
would say I'm coming here's what I'm
going to do we're going to put you know
screening here we're gon to close the
dumpster we're not going to close the
dumpster I mean just to understand what
the actual current working proposal is
well see now you're getting into two he
doesn't really he's not the applicant oh
okay
well I mean the proposal is whose
proposal well that's a good point well
do we have good record I guess I guess
it' be a Miss what's the proposal that's
been made to the city staff that's what
I would
ask and there was some response yeah
I'll I'll read it if I can just pull it
up because we were
um okay oh there you are can we read
this give us a chance to read this well
maybe I'll read out loud so I can see
the applicant will install and maintain
a good operating order electric wall
electric water gas hookups as needed for
food truck operation no external
generators or other devices that create
noise or engine emissions are permitted
the water and gas hookup is already done
we will not be using any external
generator so this is already completed
then it says uh only one food truck is
allowed in the premises at given time
unless additional temporary permitting
is receiv received from the city we will
follow this as well we not be having any
second food truck and also we will just
operate it during its I assume its given
time the applicant will provide
screening along Cassidy and Bellwood
frontages in accordance with mud
designed standards mud I should say uh
answer so we would like to get exception
for this one I have not seen any
business that has screened their parking
lot also screening the Bellwood Avenue
and Cassy would be a big project for the
dumpsters at the rear of the property
adjacent to the proposed food food truck
location be screened in accordance with
mud design standards instead of
screening the dumpsters can we move the
dumpsters more behind the building so it
it's not in view of the public five the
food truck will be in a location shown
in exhibit submitted for the August 22nd
Bap meeting yet answer yes the food
truck will be in the location shown
shown in exhibits submitted for the
August meeting please let me know if you
have any other
questions you know the problem is if he
says what the proposal is and then the
applicant says well he didn't get it
right now I'm in trouble so so bottom
line is you have an attorney talk for
you and you can have an architect talk
for you but just can't
send your uncle to do so well can't
can't we can't we say what we want and
and if we like it that way we can vote
on it and approve it that way and he
doesn't like it he can come back and
appeal it or come back we can do
whatever we want it's a question of what
he's allowed to testify to that's all
well what I'm saying is no offense but
we can't we just do it without his
testimony that's what we're doing okay
okay I thought you were unless somebody
had a question say we couldn't vote on
it or anything like that no no no
absolutely not I'm just saying you can
ask him a question does the you have you
been to the food truck yes I have have
you been there while it's been operating
yes I have can you tell me how many
people per night You' served when you
were there those are factual issues that
he can testify to now you know what are
you going to do if XYZ happens well he's
not the operator so he can't that's
what would lawyering you to death what
would be wrong with sending this back to
the city for a 6month
permit and then over the next six months
figuring out the F our food truck
ordinance and then having a more
complete application
presented because I I mean I I agree
with with what Mr Rosenthal said is that
this feels like it's a food truck permit
issue more
then and if and if our code doesn't have
any time frames then it just seems to me
that that would give them six months it
would give everyone time to figure I'm
just I don't want to I love food trucks
I'd walk over there um I just don't want
to be in a position where we approve
something permanent forever and then we
come back to regret it later because we
didn't we first of all I don't know that
we have a complete enough application to
and the applicant is not here tonight to
to Really approve something with
landscaping and screening and all this
so we can put conditions on it
regardless of whether the applicant
wants to hear it you know
but if if I could to address uh Mr
Marsha's comment the food truck
ordinance I'm working on it but it will
not most likely I could include language
I haven't worked on that for an
permanent food truck it was going to it
was going to regulate further you know
the temporary food trucks that come in
outside of the special permits that we
so we don't have to do special permits
for food trucks and and that kind of
thing and you guys have to see them all
the time it was going to more address
that issue I would still say that a
permanent food truck is an accessory
structure to the building an accessory
use and and an accessory structure to
the permanent or the principal structure
on the property and that's from a zoning
a building zoning code perspective
that's how I would address
that and it would still come back to you
guys unless unless the board wanted to
give me direction and say and then I can
certainly work on that that we need to
address this in the
code I think giving them some sort of a
temporary like a
six-month permit and then because what
happens if we you know decide something
today and then someone you know six
months from now said oh well they got to
do it I'm going to put one on my
building too and then that's what we've
set the standard for but we really
haven't had a full robust kind of
analysis of it that we can you know
really understand and we've created a
new standard just on this one food truck
because it made sense for that property
I the only caution I have is that it
sounds like then were're saying you're
allowed to violate the zoning code for
six months because you're going to put
an accessory structure in side which we
really can't say so essentially what
you're saying is these are not accessor
structures by your interpretation so I
think we have to pick and choose now I
think there's a couple other options you
could say if it is located in an area
that's not in violation of zoning code
in the back you know within the setbacks
then we're not in a variant situation
that's one situation we could go to um
or we could say because we don't have
what's specifically addressed you have
to follow the current permitting process
which only allows you to come in the
morning and leave at night and so I
think that's part of this like they're
asking right now to essentially what do
what we think is permanently going to be
considered an accessory structure and so
I don't think the time frame is gonna
solve the zoning issue and I again I
hate to I'm sorry planning lawyer ined
that
now we just can't give hey you can
violate our zoning code for six months
from a variance perspective that's well
I I think the city has to decide if it's
a structure if it's it is have
but if it's there tonight and leaves
tomorrow you're saying it's not a
structure but if it's there for six at
some point it transitions from being a
truck to a
structure in my opinion if it's but
that's not in the code they have asked
to have a permanent installation and
whatever per nothing actually every
building that gets built is gonna get
ripped all I can do is say from a normal
reasonable interpretation someone says
we want to have a permanent installation
of a food Dru that means from my
perspective it's there forever yeah it's
going the code and the code says you
can't have a structure there forever or
it's an accessory structure now we can
argue is that a day three days Six Days
codes all across the country are not
going to be that specific on every
single thing right we as a board have to
say reasonably if they want it to be
permanent what does that mean and I our
interpretation is that's an accessory
structure again I'm not trying to be
difficult we're just trying make sure
this I could address Heidi's comment I
would I would request then if if you
were saying we want to do it six month
temporary then just let the city handle
it administratively don't say six-month
temporary and we'll we'll address it
with the permit that's there now the the
application that they filled out already
and then when I saw on the application
it wanted to be permanent I went that's
not you know that triggered all these
other things it's the permanent the
temporary permanent it's that but I mean
certainly right now they could say we
want to be there every Friday Saturday
Sunday from four to four to eight and
serve food and we would you know I mean
to me to me it's the difference between
an RV and a mobile home the building
code has stuff to say about mobile homes
it doesn't have anything to say about
RVs people Bally Park their airst
streams in their driveways which is
their side yard that's not an issue
because it's not a structure I guess
sorry but anyway my point is my point is
it seems to me that once you say it's
permanent it's no longer in the RV
catalog it's now a mobile home and so it
seems like you got to have some building
code perspective on the whole thing or
or you're it just seems sloppy and I I I
don't know that any other community
exactly has that but I just feel like
the minute you say it's permanent now I
think your building department should
have something to say about that whereas
I yeah yeah that's also
true decide we could just say would you
agree to move it in the back would you
agree to leave every night and if they
say yes then then go to admin if they
say no then you have to
adjudicate that's where we're
at may I offer may I offer a suggestion
uh What I Hear going on here there's
we're working on code um we're talking a
lot about permanence of course which a
Varian is um but one thing that might
not be permanent is a business owner
like Mr Khan um I think that doing a
permit on a six-month basis continuously
allows or handled administratively
allows the city to for lack of a better
word police the situation on behalf of
the neighbors continues to allow the
neighbors to give some input into it
while we continue to flush this out
while he writes the the upcoming code
all right so I'm gonna I'm not speaking
as a chairman I'm just talk as a board
member can you put the photos up there
again please I don't think any of this
is very
important if you buy a house on a golf
course then I don't want to hear you
come here and complain about golf balls
in your backyard but these people that
bought houses contiguous to this alley
didn't buy this knowing there's going to
be a food outdoor food uh uh facility
whatever you want to call it structure
non-structure doesn't matter people are
coming up getting food eating it there
wrap papers the dumpster is right there
in the back if they move it in the alley
or in the back it's even closer to that
house and the next house and the one
across the street to me this is a
totally inappropriate place to put a
food truck of any sort permanent or even
temporary unless it's there for one
festival for one night from uh noon to
6:00 pm I wouldn't have a problem with
that perhaps but I've got a problem with
a permanent structure here at all I'm
voting no regardless of all this other
pattern that's only I would say is the
food truck on Main Street that we looked
at that question came up because I asked
it and the comment was they were noticed
they're not here to complain about it we
can't take into account what the
neighbors say and so no no that's that's
not a correct interpretation though
because the person who lives in that
house might sell it next week and a new
person is there well that could happen
on Main Street as well but I don't know
about the one on Main stre I don't
recall voting on that where was it
located the one that's right behind the
lion we approved it like behind the what
the lion the new new Li again again
there are a lot of different
circumstances it was situated different
was I here for that case
there's a lot of circumstances well no
but what I'm say what my only my only
point was using the neighbors as an
argument you can't do that if they're
not here they were noticed they're not
here we can't say that it's an issue for
the neighbors that that's all I'm
saying and if it's there when the
neighbor buys the house he knows it's
there
so now I think that's a total
misinterpretation of what our job is I
don't think it's here to see who shows
up what if that neighbor's on vacation
this week you know I mean the the issue
is we're here to represent everybody the
person who's making the
application and the people who own
houses around the area we do that all
the time I know you should do it in this
case no we we ignore the neighbors all
they don't come and they don't come to
the meeting or that's I've never ignored
the situation that the neighbors are in
ever I well I just I strongly disagree
with that because it does happen all the
time I can just you know kind of big
pict sense of like the the philosophy
now we're getting deep here the planning
philosophy of of Grants con variance um
if this is going to remain in this place
and if we determine that you know which
we have as a as a as a staff that this
is an accessory structure need of
variance I would like philosophically
for us to look at what's the balance of
what we're gaining versus what we're
granting so maybe you know you're out no
matter what our recommendation would be
if we are going to consider this what
can we do
current problems on the site and one of
those things I think is the fact you
have like exposed dumpsters hanging out
in the back of a commercial thing next
to a residential area so for me it's
like that's an easy one let's screen
those like every other new business
would have to do if anybody was building
build and what else can we do well maybe
we added some of the screening on the
side that would begin to mitigate the
problems that we have with giant parking
lck and AR oriented uses and like V so
again that's up to you I just think
there's a balance we could if you're
open to having a food cart at all a food
truck where we could find some site
Improvement the problem is we don't have
someone here who agree to those so I
think we may be not forward tonight
regardless yeah I mean I couldn't agree
more I I I love the idea of a food truck
there and but I I don't the applicant
there's no way I can vote to approve
this tonight because there's the
applicant's not here and I'd love to see
screening and Landscaping and then my I
would my vote my recommendation would be
to table this when the applicant can be
here and have them work with staff and
come back in with a detailed plan that
shows whatever screw and and if they
want to say they're not going to do any
screening that's fine come back with a
plan that shows no screening and then we
could V we could vote on that I think a
member of the board can always make a
motion to table yeah I mean if we're
doing a straw poll I would I would
second that thought that I I I certainly
would be looking for more
make a motion we got a lot of other
cases to Mr su's point I I think that to
me there's some larger hole about being
Nimble and allowing the possibilities
for that area and seeing what the
interest is as a market study for this
area you know if there's food available
so but I think as one board member with
one vote I would say I would be looking
for more than the minimum in terms of
I'm just going to park a food truck here
and it's never going to leave I think
I'd want to understand more about that
from a code perspective and then I'd
also assuming we can get comfortable
with that I would want to talk about
what else is being done to make the site
a better neighbor to the you know
already Del Just One Last
Thing other food trucks in other places
mostly in Columbus often that some are
permanent on sites like this many places
have food trucks that come and go every
day and still have fence screening that
goes around them that's pretty typical
so I think that's what we would as a
staff advate for you know that would be
a reasonable thing you could see that
downtown at pins you can see it in the
short or in Italian Village at 7 Sun
where there is a designated spot that
has some measure of screening
and Mr chairman chairman yes sir motion
to table thank
you is there a second Mar second Mr
Marsh
um call the rooll I think that's best
way to do this okay thank you Matt yes
Mr Rosal yes Mr Marsh yes M Dorne yes Mr
Levine yes Mr Turner yes
Mr schik yes chairman be I vote Yes but
I would ask that it be put last on the
docket so these other people that come
that have simple cases and we don't have
to make them wait for 16 years while we
discuss whether it's a permanent
structure or not so if you don't mind
whoever's in charge of the of the order
of operation next month please put this
last on the doc we will do that all
right thank you for your patience sir
and you're welome
next is new business and the app first
application is bz ap-24 d19 261 North
Stanwood the applicant is Brenda Parker
the owners are Kelly and Christopher rup
with the uh applicant please come
forward whoever's going to be the
spokesperson the applicant is Seeking a
certificate of appropriateness for a
partial first floor Edition and a second
floor Edition above existing Breezeway
and attached garage
uh an addition onto an existing first
floor addition and add a second story
onto the existing attached garage
applicant is Seeking a variant an area
variance from beex code 20 section 12
52.1 e to encroach 2 feet 11 inches into
the required 15 foot sidey yard setback
for the addition sir would you raise
your right hand tell me your name
Christopher R Mr rup do you swear or
affirm that all the testimony you give
us this evening would be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth
thank you very much
staff give us a little background first
of all I need to apologize there was a
typo on the agenda I gave it to Karen
the two Feet's not there it's just 11
inches 11 and I will walk you through
why we have a provision in the code that
makes it 11 inches okay thank you very
much the code section analysis 1252
point11 permitted encroachment into
yards a proposed addition to a
residential structure with a
non-conforming side yard setback that
meets all other zoning and building
standards May encroach up to 2 feet into
the required side yard setback to no
closer than 5 feet from the property
line provided the proposed addition is
at least eight inches further from the
property line than the building line of
the existing enclosed living space so
that's a lot of that's a lot of jargon
to say I'll break that down for you okay
uh the applicant the
sidey so first of all this is one of our
favorites corner lot okay front door
faces Maryland okay so they probably
think their front yard's Maryland their
front yard is actually north sandwood
all right the sidey yard setback where
their front porch is is 15 feet okay uh
from uh that property line side of
Maryland they're putting an addition
onto the what would that what would that
be that be the west side right the West
Side okay so their
addition um is two 12 feet 11 in off the
property line okay so the 15t setback
but they're allowed to encroach up to
two feet into the required setback get
you to 13 feet but their new addition is
going to be 12 feet 11 inches so they're
they're asking for that 11 inch variance
to encroach into that does that okay
good explanation yes sir so um and staff
sees no issue with this
variance okay so can we see anything uh
if you pull up my group if you pull my
report ARB must have looked at
this uh they did an ARB
um thank
you yeah so if you see here this will
give you a little bit of visual um I can
go
either either way the yellow and I
should have made side yard yellow the
yellow is your sidey yard okay the the
dash line right here is the existing
house it's right here where they step it
back okay uh that's 12 feet 11 inches
they could without a variance go 13 feet
and be fine but they're at 12 Fe 11 so
that right there is the 11 inch variance
okay okay
okay you ready for the architecture
review board yes please uhuh thank you
Karen this application actually was
before us twice um the first time uh the
board wanted BR is this Brenda's case
yeah it's Brenda yeah sorry her right
there um Brenda they wanted Brenda to
work a little bit on the back elevation
it was just a big blank
facade cave apping this is not a big
house if if you had an opportunity to
drive by there's nothing kind of big
blank about it and and there was
recognition about that and appreciation
for Brenda to take an extra month to
work on some of the details I'm gonna
pull up the plans and everything but I
just wanted to go over the record of
decision because the board kind of
really got into the design and the
nitty-gritty and I think as a result
they're gonna have a you're gonna have a
great addition but these are all real
details that um I want to just preface
it by saying the board fully supported a
recommendation of this design um Brenda
is always great when she comes before us
and was super open to having additional
design details which are um the a per
Beed on the new porch that only one
perer Beed not not two band continues as
in scheme one because she brought us
three different schemes the Juliet
Balcony have trim that mimics a balcony
rather than just be nailed on the
transom windows and the windows align on
the rear elevation and the vertical trim
on the rear mid wall be eliminated left
of the door those are small things
they're not going to cost any more in
the construction but they're going to
make this a really great um addition
renovation uh but and I would just ask
you to include those conditions in the
approval of a certificate
appropriateness if there is one at the
at this
board
okay all right I have a lot of stuff so
you have okay you want you have more uh
you have more photographs more to report
but I have lot of um you know supporting
materials because we kind of went
through three different versions We are
going with scheme
one
okay all right Mr rup can you tell us
what you're doing and why we should
approve your application we are adding a
mudroom porch and a master bedroom and
office to the house because we're a
family of four now we have two young
boys boys who we know in about five six
years are going to be wanting their own
bathroom and space so we thought it was
time to to upgrade a little bit we
looked around at other houses none of
them really have the charm that the
inside of this house has um so we really
like where we are we love our neighbors
um they've actually been very supportive
and stopping by and telling us that we
they hope we get approved for it so
okay and really there's a pretty good
explanation given To Us by staff I think
we got a pretty good picture does
anybody on the board have any questions
of Staff or Mr rup so what it's such a
modest ask and the co I get that it's a
weird situation but also it sounds like
from staff's explanation the code takes
into account this weird situation and
gives some Grace the tunea two feet what
happens if you don't get the 11 inches
then
what is it is it unworkable to I think I
was confused as to where it is because I
thought it was on the garage side that
we needed the variant not on the front
side but we would have to lose the front
porch on the addition right there which
would probably imbalance it a little bit
I would say um probably make it look a
little
strange so the line we're concerned
about is the face of that column on the
porch That's the line that where is 11
Ines tooo far into the side
yard yeah I think the intent of the code
is just that you know we have a lot of
properties that are on uh built into
non-conforming sidey yard setbacks right
so it just takes into account if you if
you did an addition you know you don't
have to go all the way back into that
setback of 15 so you can you can you
need to step it back a little bit but
not all the way into the side yard which
is why that two feet is there so and it
is a covered porch which is is why it's
considered enclosed space but it is open
so covered with the second floor the
second floor room
above so it's not really porch isn't the
issue the issue is the room above it
would get 11 inches
smaller right I do think that
architecturally that's something to look
at that it's you
know it's something to look at in a
sense in a sense that it's not enclosed
top to bottom it's still oh I see
is there anybody in the audience that is
for or against this application please
if so raise your
hand all right thank you I see no
indication of
such all right if there's no further
questions and you have no further
comments uh we can uh ask for findings
of fact conclusions of law I don't know
whether we need to take this in two
steps or not but we have a certificate
of appropriateness we have a variance
request
um why don't you give I think you can
wrap them into one here I I'm think it
can be all one anybody on the board have
a problem with that no Matt go ahead and
give us those if you would thank you
chairman um findings and facts and
conclusions of law for application bcap
24-19 for the property located at 261
North Stanwood upon consideration of the
application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before it the
board finds the has proven that the
criteria to Grant an 11in area variance
in accordance with Bexley code section
12417 have been met and to allow the
uh the addition of a partial first floor
Edition second floor Edition above
existing Breezeway and attached garage
onto an existing first
floor addition and to add a second story
onto the existing garage to be granted
as submitted
and also further approves the
certificate appropriateness as
recommended with conditions from the
architecture review board all right very
good do I hear a motion to approve the
findings effect conclusions of law so
move Marsh Mr Marsh second please second
second Miss
Dorne please call the role Mr schik yes
Mr Levine yes Mr Turner yes
Mr Rosenthal yes M Dorne yes Mr Marsh
yes chairman behall I vote Yes also so
the the variance and the certificate of
appropriateness are granted good luck
with your project good project thanks
for all your work on you redesigning and
reformulating it so thank
you the next
case
involves application B Gap
24-26 involving 662
Vernon the applicant is Pat Ryan the
owner is Dale
Rucker and the
application uh is the applicant is
seeking approval of
the of for a certificate of
appropriateness as well as three
variances a 29% area variance for Bex
city code section 12
5215 B1 which states that the width of
an accessory structure may not exceed
60% of the lot width in the instance of
attached garages the lot is 45 ft 8 in
and the new width of the attached garage
would be 40 Fe 8 in or 89% of lot
width number two a variance from city
code section 12 52.1 5 G1 which states
accessory structures and uses shall be
permitted only in the rear yard and
shall be at least 3 ft from all property
and right of way lines design building
the designed building will be 11 in off
the rear property line and 11 in off the
South property
line number three of variance from
Bexley city code section 12 52.1 5A
which states the maximum building foot
perint is to be two 624 square feet the
existing building as shown on the
drawing is
692 Square F feet which is
non-conforming the new addition would
add another 260 ft bringing the total to
952 ft a 320 8 squ foot
difference all right folks raise your
right hand and if each of you would give
me your names one at a time D Rucker Mr
Rucker M
Michael Brenda thank you you all swear
or affirm that the testimony you give
the board this evening will be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth thank you Mr chairman yes ma'am
sir I need to abstain the applicant as a
clim okay thank you very much and I'm
gonna start okay it's I was going to say
it's an unusual case we're gonna have
three of these tonight okay um this is a
case that the ARB is sending to you
without recommendation okay because the
variance is so substantial yet the site
is so unique in that it's on a header
alley we we'll get into all of that but
the board finally after some discussion
about the design and stepping it back
and is it even appropriate because it's
so the whole length of the you know lots
of different issues that I'm sure you'll
cover and Matt will as well we just
decide the board just the ARB just
decided let's just send it and see if
the variance is even acceptable before
we work sign so all I would ask is if
you do approve any or all of the
variances that you send it back to ARB
for design
approval okay great so tell us a little
bit about the the uh program here from
the stat perspective um thank you
chairman so again another corner lot um
it's a header alley U Main Street would
be to the right of the picture in the
main street in the The Alley behind Main
Street is to the right of the garage or
north of the garage
um so the current the current lot is
substantially smaller than um a corner
lot dimension for an R six which is
8,400 square F feet and this one is
6,194 square feet um as Karen mentioned
the applicant did go before the
Architectural Review Board um you heard
uh what they had to say from Karen the
applicant currently has a two and a half
car garage but needs more space for
vehicles as parking in front of his
house off of Vernon uh directly off of
Main Street is very busy his cars have
been hit numerous times while parked on
Vernon um and there's a general sense of
uh congestion in front when they when
they try to park vehicles in front um as
far as the staff comments with regards
to uh the the application I apologize
chairman you you read a lot of my staff
comments because I forgot to take them
out of the variance section and and put
them down below so those are a lot of my
comments I would I would add that the
existing garage um I don't know if it I
I don't know if it received a variance
when it was first built I didn't have
access to our hard files they're
currently being digitized he's shaking
his head yes yeah it's currently 65% of
the lot width 60% is allowed for
accessory structures building this would
take it to 89% of the lot width um which
you know to my knowledge is is
you know we would like to maintain that
40% of space for emergency Personnel
emergencies in general access in and out
of the site um it's a safety um
concern um also as you heard the the
requirements um you know accessory
structures in the rear yard need to be
three feet off of either property line
each way um and this one was going to
take it to about 11 inches either way um
to the South what would be the South and
the East proper lines there um if the
variances are granted I don't know if
you mentioned that the architecture
review board asks that the project be
sent back to them for final design
review and approval right that is all
sir
okay whoever wishes to speak please let
us know what why we're doing what we're
doing and why we should Grant these
variances um thank you both Karen and
Matt uh I just I did send Matt the
revise uh that's what I have you have it
up there okay okay perfect um so as we
all know there is very limited parking
in South Bexley especially on Vernon um
especially with the uh Huntington bank
right there and then also a new dental
office that opened across the street uh
across Main Street um and them now
having to park on the street um
especially
uh I guess patients going to that dental
office now park on the street as well so
um my clients here are trying to get
another car off of the street uh for
another uh option of parking as well
um and in the yes so there's the revised
option after going to the ARB where
design recommendation was to maybe push
it back a little bit further so it is
not 11 inches off the off the alley side
um but we are still close to 11 in to a
foot on the south property line as well
the South proper line is to the left
here correct as I'm looking at this
picture okay thank you I just want to
make sure we're oriented here the fence
that's there is that your fence or the
next That's The Neighbor's that's the
neighbor's fence okay and that's which I
assume is the property line probably
right fairly close to the fence there
yes okay thank you and the only reason
we need it that close is because it's
not is space the space is uh 10et seven
Ines or 10 feet 8 inches I'm sorry so I
mean without going up that close there's
it's not feasible
to get a car
at originally you know we were talking
about just doing a Pap section back
there with a gated fence but because of
the the water or gas meter we can't do a
sliding fence and I had Arrow fence come
out like a year or so ago and I guess I
don't know anything about them but the
the that swing a fence in they would
stick out too far which would kind of
prohibit that as well so the only thing
I could think of was you know a garage
door the original one was you know just
constant so I was thinking about Harvest
Pizza how they have the the doors come
down on the bar yeah and I was trying to
think of something that would be
aesthetically pleasing but still
providing us some sort of security we
are right behind rinos two alleys our
neighbors have Tau people in their
backyard she's got people in our
backyard and we're just and the bank too
is right there isn't it bank so people
are going in and out of the
drive-thru
yeah so I realized that um we're asking
for a lot um I do have on my phone as
far as has the first bullet point um one
of my neighbor garages he has a car port
as well cross the street um that's taken
up pretty much the whole area like to
see I can show my phone the width of the
of his lot mean
yeah yeah so the the second bullet point
with it being 11 in off the rear
property line we actually going to be 5'
10 in off the re
property and right now as You' notice
from some of the pictures it's just it's
just dead
space I I want to say a little bit more
about the design discussion if I could
just please that there was not no
discussion I want to be clear there was
actually some enthusiasm
and that's what led to that redesign of
um and and to be in in in fairness I'm
was never in support of this because
it's a very large variants but that's
not the arb's but the board actually um
was very sympathetic to it and that's
why they wanted to go on these but I
wanted to just point out that these
design changes I'll flip back and forth
um came about because there's a
realization during the meeting that
there's a big grade change so um in
sensitivity to it being very subservient
to the primary garage and to make sure
that it could handle the grade change
that's where these that's where these
design changes were made so I'll flip
from this is the most current one this
is what it
was been pushed back so I mean the
structure to the left here that's not
their structure no it's that's built
right up against the there's not even 11
inches there is there I'm just curious
so they have no no to the structure to
the left the the this what is that a
garage yeah this garage is that's what
this is yeah I mean how close is that to
the right up against it right I mean if
you got 11 inches they certainly are
more than 11 inches past your point I
don't um yeah but it's more about how
much of the length of the well the width
well the whole back it's the width of
the lot the width of the whole structure
I
see but there so there's two reasons
they're set back side setbacks one is
sort of aesthetic the idea that we don't
want to build walls of structures and
the other one is a life safety one which
is just so I don't know if you guys have
dug into this yet but that all
everything within I think three feet of
property line has to be rated
construction right so I don't know how
you solve that
exactly uh if if it's you know that's
going to be bunch of that roof a bunch
of that siding you know the columns you
wouldn't be able to just do normal
construction right on the property line
as a building code is
issue um I don't know if that's come up
yet but to me I I mean and I you know I
don't know that it's not our job to
adjudicate building code but I'm just
bringing that up as an observation I to
me the bigger issue as a member of this
board is just the sort of sensitivity
the idea that we're trying to avoid you
know our code suggests we're trying to
avoid building continuous you know walls
of structure for you know a variety of
reasons and so I mean I have a lot of
hesitation just based on the idea that
you know three feet is already sort of
in my mind you know recognizes the sort
of size of the fabric of South Bexley
and allows things pretty close so you
end up with six feet between the
structures but you know you start
winnowing that down to less than a foot
uh it seems like problematic
precedent well and my only thing was
because it's a cardboard you know it's
not really well I guess it is a
structure but I was thinking there's
only a few Oaths on that
property and um
not looking for a fully enclosed
addition to the garage just looking for
a street parking that is aesthetically
pleasing where we can have some security
so those are two of my questions for you
so one if it was just a pad and they
weren't putting a cover over it could
they do
that uh I believe so yeah I would have
we have lot coverage requirements so I
didn't um this is under the building
coverage requirement for the lot so okay
and then if they didn't have the garage
door on it could they just it would
almost be a porch would that be we going
through the same process we're going
through now or is it different because
it's got the one wall on it it' be the
same okay it's an attached structure
whether it's all the way enclosed or not
we consider enclosed if it has a roof
over the top of
it so I think you mentioned Matt about
safety right that was one of the
concerns we're looking at this Karen was
showing that on the sidey it looks like
there's ample sidey guard on that alley
that if there's a safety issue it would
seem to me that would be an option to
get into the area right I mean so
they're kind of unique in that sense
where this is not your typically you
know typical lot where it's you
know has two houses on either side of it
it has another alley which would be you
know an entrance into the lot if need be
I think yeah that that makes it a little
different for me I think because it it
does have some different characteristics
to it than a typical you know South
Beckley lot would because it has that
this alley here yeah that you we're
showing it I think on the Google Maps
so from that piece I think that would
make it you know that would be a factor
that would kind of lend towards it that
and against it as far as
safety so I'm a little bit I get the lot
withth issue but the second variance is
it's 11 inches off the rear property
line so we are talking about this
property line that we're looking at here
on the left extreme of this picture
right
correct so it's not it's not anymore in
the second one they sent that after I
wrote the staff report in the agenda oh
it's no long
still need 11 I'm getting it now I'm
sorry chairman I should have clarified
the code is 3 by3 so three feet off each
property line they're still 11 inches on
the south so they would need a two foot
one two foot one inch variance on the
south they no longer need the East
variance okay okay yeah he sent that to
me I think Yer yesterday day before I
already made up my staff report and
didn't have a chance to update all the
documents no thank you so currently it's
5 fo 10 in from the rear
right okay so that that's gone then yeah
and just the question here
is the size of the combined garage the
the the currently existing garage plus
the new uh structure is 300 is 328
square feet long bigger than we're
allowing
otherwise I guess I never really thought
about it being one
structure it's it's just a carboard with
the only difference is the the garage
door just again because of security and
we did look at you know with the gas
meter we could have a sliding gate um
with because it's not very wide we can't
have you know a gate that opens in yeah
let let me ask if there's anybody in the
audience that's for or against this
application
please okay why don't we let that person
come up so we can hear uh a perspective
of the audience of the neighbors as
well ma'am will you state your name and
what your residence address is I'm
Sharon Stanley I'm at 690 buron you can
see my gate and carport from the
pictures okay very good well you
definitely have standing if you're that
close so do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're going to give this
evening would be the truth the old truth
is nothing but the truth yes okay tell
us your perspective on this request I
think it's a great thing I've been hit
myself many times on Vernon people from
the bank park there if there's
construction or people having family
reunions there's no parking spots so if
you can get off the street you're better
off um I think it's a beautiful design
um okay you're in favor in general yes I
okay you know we appreciate appreciate
hearing from Neighbors and I appreciate
you're taking the time to come here
tonight to tell us your
perspective thank you very
much members of the board
any further questions or comments
or
sure much takes is and I'm sorry I
didn't that's across the street correct
about four4 do down maybe the only
difference pretty much is he doesn't
have a garage store but he's about in
the middle of the
block I can't even see that one let me
see there we go okay thank
you I mean I I think this is a very
unique situation with the alleys and
normally I don't know that I'd support
it but I think given this situation I I
think it's a good solution and you know
I know I mean I know parking's an issue
so I I I I think I'm okay with
it any other comments or just to address
just to address Mr rosenthal's comments
about the building code that'll be
something when they they got to get past
this step submit for building permit and
that'll be our chief building official
Mike bka that will address those
issues okay
okay all right any further comments that
any of you wouldd like to
make people that drive in our
family two daughters we
have my truck's been hit on the street
my daughters has been hit twice my other
daughters
total you know our problem just to give
you some perspective of all these cases
we have to hear is everybody in Bexley
wants an additional 325 square foot on
their garage and you know we just have I
mean city council could change a law and
let everybody build 900 foot garage but
they haven't done so and we're kind of
stuck with what the law is so we got to
make sure that if we Grant a variance
we're we're not doing something that
basically says anybody in Bexley that
wants a 600 uh 3228 larg square foot
garage can come here and get a variance
so we've got to be careful about the
situation that surrounds the request and
makes it a a unique problem or a problem
that is not really created by you you
know so that's one of our issues so and
I was I was hoping
by instead of making a garage addition
doing a car for just simply with
security with the door yeah because
there's no other option
makes
sense okay do we have any other
questions or comments from board members
if not uh Matt can you give us findings
of fact and conclusions of law it's
going to be a little lengthy here
so yes chairman again I think I think I
can shorten that up but yes it will be a
little lengthy uh findings and facts and
conclusions of law for application bcap
24-26 for the property located at 662
ver
upon consideration of the application
proposed variances and evidence and
testimony before it the board finds the
applicant has proven the criteria to
Grant the following variances so let me
stop you right there is are all the
board members okay with voting at the
same time with all three they seem to be
to be integrally related I mean if we
gave them one variance and not the other
two not we're not accomplishing any
goals so either the whole thing is okay
or the whole thing isn't okay yeah all
right thank you I'm sorry Matt a 29%
area variance from Bexley code section
12521 15 point
b.1 to allow
89% of the width of the lot to be taken
up by an accessory structure a two foot
1inch variance from Bexley code section
12525 G1
a variance from Bexley codes a I'm sorry
a 328 square foot area variance from
Bexley code section
12521
15a um to allow a
carport to be installed on the south
side of the existing
garage to be granted as submitted
okay I have one question that just came
to my
mind is there a fire problem with the
South
Side uh of the structure being close to
this probably flammable structure that
we're looking at right now well we're
not looking at the one that's actually
on the left extreme of this picture is
is that a a consideration that we
should take and is that a building code
issue building code will address it yeah
that's a building code issue yeah from
my perspective um you're looking at just
the variances that'll be taken up with
the Chief Building official okay all
right just wanting to think ahead here a
little bit all right thank you uh does
anybody have any problem are you okay
with the reading of the findings of fact
as as read yes oh you're not no I'm
sorry it was and that and that be
remanded back to
the be remanded back to the ARB if
approved yeah I'm sorry that was sort of
stated at the beginning I just assume
that was the case but it should be read
into the record thank you thank you
Karen um are is everybody on the board
okay with the reading of the findings of
fact conclusions laws being accurate and
and uh appropriate if so I would uh
entertain a motion to uh approve the
findings of fact conclusions of law so
move Turner thank you Mr Turner is there
a second second Dorne thank you Miss
Dorne all right Mr kler please call the
role yes sorry Mr Levine my microphone
wasn't on yes sorry uh Mr Marsh
yes Mr Turner
yes M Dorne
yes Mr Shain commment
uh Mr
Rosen and chairman
Beall I think that I'm going to vote no
also even though the variances pass and
you've achieved uh the variances that
you need here tonight good luck with
your project thank
you all right the next case before the
board is application bcap 24-29
2501 to 2511 East Main Street the
applicant is Christine Farley the owner
of the property is CRV main cassingham
LLC would the applicant please come
forward the applicant is seeking
approval from the bza for a certificate
of appropriateness for changes to the
exterior of the front of the building
ma'am would you raise your right hand
tell me your name
please M Farley do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're about to give
this evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth all
right ma'am are you going to testify as
well my name security can architect
working with oh okay fine but
you what why don't you raise your right
hand too that way you can make comments
do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth the whole truth is nothing but
the truth y thank you very much could
you do me a favor really quick sorry to
interrupt you and tap on that microphone
to see if it's
working I should have
okay um no hold
on uh Matt is this yours or Karen's uh
both okay I'll throw to her I just want
to make uh for the record for every you
know the millions listening out there um
and you all um as you may or may not
know in our code
122.0 7 Main Street district and campus
planning district review uh and the um
the guidelines and review of changes uh
it says no building structure or space
within the Main Street District or
campus planning district shall be
constructed reconstructed altered moved
extended raised enlarged or changed in
external appearance unless and until the
plans and specifications for such
building Etc have been approved by Board
of zoning and planning so that is the
background of how this
has made it to your hearing and with
that I will throw it to my sidek does it
also go to architecture view board or
just this board so she was gonna say
that but they would um if approved they
would ask that you remain back to the
architecture review
board all right Ms
Boker okay um we're having a little
technical diffic difficult okay here we
just got to hold that it it's tape yeah
it's just that
connection I can hold it it's
fine that's how technical I am we're
going to hold it with my
hand and tape um so this application was
before ARB for some design critique and
I know Kim you weren't able to be here
at the last one but I'm sure things got
relay to you um at the risk of sounding
I don't know TR I guess the the general
comment was this is awesome that you
guys are going to do a face lift to this
building um the board would like you to
think about the board has instructed
them to think about using more urban
kind of contextual colors and schemes
instead of a I think the term came up as
Joanna and Chip games games white as
who I don't know if you I don't know if
you heard that at the meeting not my
words but but I think everyone really
did kind of agree that you know we have
this we have this um opportunity to have
this very
Urban um
strip and give it some life like kind of
and things samples came out like um Rue
in Short North or Sycamore and in um
German Village like some blues and some
to make it look like distinctly separate
buildings yet one you know by pulling
lines across and brick work leaving it
to make it clear that it's all connected
but to give it some some kind of urban
context I see I hope that's enough but
it went on for a little while so I think
that's a good summary okay so just so I
know who's who here so miss Farley are
you a managing member of CRV main cam
LLC or what what's your relationship
here property manager oh you're the
property manager for the owner okay
thank you that helps me all right and
this Strip Center been there for a long
time it's kind of famous for the grocery
store that was in it at one time
actually but nonetheless it's got a lot
of different kind of places in it
including a new place that's also here
tonight to talk
so tell us what you're thinking about
doing and and why and well so the last
meeting that we were here I submitted
these renderings that I had and um was
thrown out some colors some choices that
um I should maybe look towards so I did
that and I got that all today and I
wasn't able to submit it I do have some
copies here if you like them
okay thank you we'll share
one a lot of this emanated from starting
out as a you know just a repair and
maintenance project
that's once we got into it we realized
that there's much more going on as far
as the aesthetic and everything and so
now we're cir we're circling back with
Ken's um there's a couple different
pictures in a couple
different is this the entire building or
is just uh the Jimmy John's to the lion
is it would be our portion okay so
including the LI or not the lion uhuh
okay okay thank
you so we changed that up a little bit
here we had out
white board
M and they a little outdated so um
speaking
with talking about a few things they
really wanted the
black um it was suggested blue and some
different colors but was what they liked
and it
worked I think everybody was okay with
the our office it was really little
build and um so the lion was the white
and black now it would be all black we
changed the Great Clips to add a little
bit of that
bronze um I don't have all the colors
just yet rings I wanted to give the nail
salon a little bit of
more of a feminine soft color um that
you have there for the nail salon and
then would be next are often so thought
that would kind of go nicely together
but it would come up
with okay I mean I think this is more
like our job is to decide whether we
should issue a certificate of
appropriateness or approve the CER
certificate of appropriateness and so
that we can send it to the ARB to make
the decisions about the actual materials
in color uh Karen do you agree with that
yeah I forgot to mention that this was
yet another of those one of the three
that I was saying was moved to you guys
without yeah a recommendation because
they just wanted to hear your yeah you
know your approval first chairman go
ahead just just add a little more
historical context into that in order to
sort of expedite their
the ARB review and get feedback from
them we had them go to ARB first even
though technically it should have gone
to you first and we assumed you would
have remanded it back because it's
designed stuff to them so that's why
they have feedback from the ARB okay
it's a little backwards so I mean if the
question is should they be allowed to uh
give a certificate to redevelop or or
improve the appearance of this uh
facility uh I think that's kind of an
easy case as it not and then let them
make a determination at ARB is this is
this a uh the kind of thing you could
apply for a grant from since it's on
Main Street no interesting okay anyway
um um but there there is some damage in
the front and we really want to you know
get this upgraded and yeah for our
tenants it's you know
yeah yeah
absolutely lates on the west side side
go away look they're not in the
renderings which makes me the lates on
the West
Side lot
of I think they just held moisture they
have a tendency to fall there's one
now we wanted to remove them this is an
older photo um in time you know starting
maybe in the spring we'd like to do a
little bit of maybe some uplighting on
on the side in between there maybe some
small trees of some
kind come
back yeah okay all right can we have
findings of fact conclusions of law on
this case um Mr kenler yes chairman
thank you the findings and facts and
conclusions of law for application bcap
24-29 for the property located at
251 through 2511 East Main Street upon
consideration of the application
proposed
um upon consideration of the application
and evidence and testimony before it the
board finds um that a certificate of
appropriateness um should be granted for
Changers to the exterior of the front of
the building with the condition that it
be remanded back to the Architectural
Review Board for further design review
and approval okay M Marley is that okay
with you okay all right
um do I hear a motion to approve the
findings of fact conclusions of law so
move Rosenthal thank you Mr Rosenthal
second sh thank you Mr
M Kingler call the role Please Mr
Turner
yes Mrs Dorne yes and I must say it
looks very
nice Mr Marsh
yes Mr Rosenthal enthusiastic
yes Mr Levine
yes Mr schik all in for uplighting as
well thank
you and chairman beof I vote Yes also
the ceric of appro this is granted good
luck it's a great project we appreciate
you're doing that work there and your
tell your owners we appreciate them
doing the work too as the chairman said
you might call Amica because there is me
I don't know know the rules of it
there's a
the I think it's pretty streamlined I
don't think it's real complicated
it's exact yeah like the the the mayor
call me call me tomorrow okay yep call
me
tomorrow I'm so new I don't I don't just
call here and ask
for all right thank you
ladies uh the next case
is has been a requested tabling is that
correct involving 249 South
cassingham is is there somebody here on
that case uh no that applicant that
applicant has asked to put this case on
hold I I'm not sure so sort of that
means okay we'll have to notice it again
if they decide to bring it back but it
was I see again moved here without a
recommendation it will what it was again
moved to to without a recommendation
okay why why don't we consider a 60-day
tabling or a two-month tabling on this
case is that okay give them more time to
get their act together
and it's fine it's fine with it's fine
with staff do I hear a motion to uh
table this matter so move shik table for
are you okay with tabling your motion
for 60 days okay second rosenal thank
you Mr rosenal all in favor of tabling
this matter say I I all opposed
nay the table is is granted
okay the next case that would most
likely be the decemberth meeting just so
you know see this is Thanksgiving
October days yeah it would be like
December 1st so that's generally when
they're having them you know instead of
the Thursday the last Thursday of
November they do it the first Thursday
of December remind everyone that to that
meeting that's what the taping Mr shik
just to clarify that's what your motion
would be right okay yes sir thank you
all right thank you
you
uh next case is application bcap
24-32 involving 2460 senica Parkplace
the applicant and the owner is Aaron
Rogers Mr Rogers is that you that's me
would you raise your right hand to be
sworn do you swear or affirm that any
testimony you give the board this
evening be the truth the whole truth of
nothing but the truth thank you very
much the applicant is Seeking a variance
for mexus city code section 1252 0.15g a
very a very popular code section tonight
to build an accessory structure up to
the rear and East property lines as well
as an approval from the Bap distributive
appropriateness for a treehouse in the
rear yard all
right Mr Kingler that sounds like your
case thank you yes yes chairman um so
code analysis uh 12 52.1 5 regulates
accessory structures staff uh re um
regards this as an accessory structure
more of a temporary structure um but an
accessory structure um so the use and pl
placement and design shall be based on
the following accessory structures and
uses shall only be permitted in the rear
yard and shall be three feet from all
property and right of way lines we'll
get some more on that in a moment
provided that ample yard space is left
for the entrance and use of fire
protection equipment that was that life
safety thing we talked about before um
12302 accessory use or structure
definition just to refresh you all on
that means than you use or structure of
the same lot width and of a nature
customarily incidental and subordinate
to the principal use or structure
parking structures parking lots are
accessory structures or uses etc etc uh
the background the applicant had begun
building a tree Playhouse for his
children uh the tree Playhouse leans
leans up again slash is attached to and
surrounds a large I believe to be silver
maple on the northeast corner of the
property
were the two property fences
adjoin uh the applicant has tried to
locate the iron pins but could not find
them in the rear of the property
although new test well we'll get to that
in a second a site survey iron pen or
mortgage has not been submitted which we
do not require but in this case the
staff has nothing to verify the property
lines other than the fences and the
Franklin County auditor site uh we
typically tell residents not to use the
auditor site because it is not exact and
done many times by flyo s um and that is
all I have for that one
okay I take it Karen this did not go to
ARB okay so our best guess about its
setback is what so the rear property
line U Ben did have a garage done there
in
2012 um and he did have pins that were
put in um we found those was that last
week here can you make sure that you
really speak sorry yeah P pull that
thing up yeah just there you go all
right uh so about two weeks ago we found
the found the rear pens um I need a
7inch variance from the
north um and then the the slot to the my
neighbor Caleb on the other side um it's
undetermined because there's not a rear
pen on that for my lot uh so you know if
if I did find the front pins and it is
to his side of the property line of our
fence so best guess I need a 15inch
variance on the what would that be the
east side so I need seven inch on the
North side and 15 to the East and that
and so to be clear the view we're seeing
on the top there that's the fence we
were talking about you think property
lines best guess is a little to the
right of that fence we're seeing so
talking about it and then uh I believe
Caleb did submit something because he's
in New York City and was UN aable to be
here
today I admire your honesty you throwing
away a really good adverse possession
[Laughter]
opportunity yeah okay we did Chairman if
I may we did have um calls and a couple
emails in support of this I know not
evidence they can't they're not here to
speak but um is there anybody here that
Pro or con this matter sir if you would
come up we have to swear you in we we
can't take ad hoc comments because it's
a quazi Judicial event you can believe
that I my right hand would you raise
your right hands do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you give the board
this evening be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth yes I do
and your name please Benjamin Bas Ben
Ben and where do you live I live
directly behind um Mr Rogers okay thank
you thank you very much we just have to
stop L we have to establish standing see
so go ahead sir please tell us your
perspective
sure I know there so many people I would
have brought a lot more you guys we'll
we'll share them yeah share
them I have prepared the hour I'll just
try and summarize them um the main thing
for me is just that it's ugly it's
really ugly um we put an addition on the
back of our house we went before for the
Architectural Review Board with plans
drawn up by an architect had them
approved we put built a new garage that
matches the addition on the back of our
house again the architecture review
board approved it in fact they we're
very happy with how we built it how the
structure is built it's got a partial
metal roof just to match the part of our
house we've into a lot of trouble and
make it really attractive um and so in
our backyard now what we see is this and
I feel bad I have kids I have grandkids
I understand playh house tree houses but
this is the first thing we see in the
morning from our bedroom we open up our
blinds and that's those pictures of what
we see um sitting on our back porch
that's what we see in our patio that's
what we see and it's just ugly thank you
um I can't I don't understand how you
know we moved to Bexley for its beauty
and its charm and now we have this thing
growing up be behind our s it's just
unattractive and I just can't believe
you can put something like this up in
Bexley without any oversight without
Architectural Review anything like that
and I I feel bad but at the same time I
don't want to have to look at this is
this your yard that I'm looking at right
here that's from our back porch and
Patio okay thank you and it's it's the
same view from our bedroom we add a
master suite when we put a addition on
the house when we bought it in 2010 um
we had the house worked on for 15 months
then we built a new garage the following
year that matches it as I said we put a
lot of effort into making it you know
nice and
again if it were a playhouse and it was
on the ground I could care less our
fence would block it um you know if it
was really way up in the tree and it
match the tree great it would be
attractive but to me it's just it's
something that we see every day and it's
very unattractive and I don't understand
why I wouldn't go before the
architecture review board if it's an
accessory structure new couple words I
learned tonight and um you know and and
you know to me it's just it's out of
nowhere it just showed up um so I just
would hope that I would love to not see
it there but if it is going to be there
I would just love to see some
requirement that it be made a little
prettier um or something I you know I'm
not an architect I don't know how to
make it look pretty put sighting on it
paint it a color move it whatever it's
just we see it every day yeah first
thing in the morning last thing at night
and it's just thanks sir we appreciate
you're taking the time to come down here
and tell us what you think so thank you
by the way if any of us for making faces
I saw you peek around there's a fire
truck out there not only a fire truck a
complete Hook and Ladder hooking ladders
don't know car is right
there
yeah I don't know how that thing is
gonna make that
turn at a pretty big well find out about
the apartment you might get your might
get her
car all right uh uh kaban up and and uh
there might be some questions and uh and
additional
comments uh Mr Rogers thank you I just
have a question for Matt is is it's
strictly are we strictly here for
variance for the location are we and if
it was like a flat playet would would
there is there I guess is there a city
city ordinance for for play sets and I
may or may not be asking this for
personal reasons about the proximity of
play sets depend but I'm just curious so
you're asking for a friend yeah I'm
asking for a friend actually it's now my
neighbor because he came over and took
it so it was at my house it was no we do
we do look at uh or Co or we interpret
the code that uh playsets this is an
access it's an accessory structure now
currently not all accessory structures
go before ARB um we have uh minor
architectural applications and ma2 is
done by staff consultant architect Karen
Boker she reviews all of them for
garages um decks heras and those sorts
we I did some past history digging I
called Kathy talked to Ben um in the
past it it had been looked at um it
comes down easier than a garage you know
it's a it's a it's a true temporary
structure um that somebody could take
down um if they moved into the house and
it just we have never regulated the
design of playhouses um or at least
reviewed them so so if it didn't have
the house portion of it there was it's
probably just a playet if what I
couldn't hear your question if it didn't
have the actual house like if it was
just kind of a deck and had a swing off
of it I mean that it would be more of a
playet it's a structure because you can
go inside it
which which is which is still an
accessory structure okay I was asking
that and then um a question for you
these photos show um not saying our code
is perfect sorry Sean sorry not saying
the code is perfect okay no no you
answer my question um it appears there's
some 4x4s on the back side of this that
are facing this gentleman's house um
these 4x4s that come up here are
they okay okay I didn't know whether
there's like some kind of railing or
something I stopped working as soon as
concern the city said something okay
yeah you guys have the back view yeah
this same okay so yeah realistically I
was planning to cut those okay I just
didn't I just it I was planning on doing
something very neutral I didn't put a
window in the back to respect Neighbors
uh privacy there's only going to be a
window on the front and the side facing
my
garage I didn't put a window on the
other side either just trying
to like I understand right wanted to
build a tree house for my kids and
that's the only tree that I have is is
is there a problem though from your own
safety perspective of how fire would get
to the back of your house when they have
to get past this significant structure
here
um I don't know I mean there's really no
way through there
now the fence that is in place has no
entry in there's no gate to it there's
no anything the fence that backs the
that's at the back lot line yeah well
can you put those uh lot diagrams up
there the one picture looks like they
could come up the neighbor's drive right
that neighbor D just on the other side
of the fence that's how a always gets to
the lines or any of the service people
get to the lines
so there is a garage there yep and the
tree is not in this picture but it's
yeah right
there oh I see there is attempt to show
the tree yeah the tree doesn't have
leaves so the mentions in the drawing
are not what's there or they are what's
there because if it's those are right
then there is no variance
correct correct so that correct what it
would need to be not what it is right
and that's what I explained to Aaron
that we we you know when when it's not
verifiable we go off of so fences
auditor site what I originally did was I
split the difference off that garage
that's Tom the neighbor to the other
side yes then uh there's six feet in
between there every every property line
except mine on c c both people have
access to that Center thing
that Center the center lines so my
assumption was that with that with that
being his garage to my structure was
over six feet so that would imply to me
that was 36 on either side that's what I
thought it was until we found the P
which says it's 32 in or 31 in got it
and can you tell me where and I pardon
me for not remembering the last names
but Ben I remember the first name where
is Ben's house on this
is it to the top it's top left okay
thank you so his property actually stops
three feet off of that garage that's
directly behind the playhouse okay looks
like your garage is built to almost to
your lot line as well he got a variance
for his garage and he's only I mean
maybe like six inches off
of I see well that's quite a garage
conglomeration back there yeah yeah I
mean it's a lot and I get it but I see
the peak of his garage over the top of
mine that was approved by this variance
you
yeah okay question on Height please like
how like how many feet above this fence
are we talking here I mean I think that
seems to be the issue is the height of
it yeah so it's it's I want to say it
was 14 feet so it's underneath the the
max
height for accessory structures so it's
if it's a six foot fence it's probably
like eight8 feet above the fence yeah to
the peak to the walls yeah I guess made
it between 14 and 15 feet which
accessory structures regulated 18 feet
in R six so to me that the height was
not an issue the yep understood
persective okay and and real quick I'm
sorry no it's late but so when you guys
were talking about what does and doesn't
get looked at by staff
you you said historically we're not
looking at playhouses we're not looking
at swing sets but there are but Karen is
looking at uh
garages pergas
decks and I don't
know micophone can you zoom in on that
view so we can see how it fits into the
neighborhood there a little bit please I
would add that if I may chairman um I I
reached out to our building Chief
Building official Mike baa and building
code is not um this this would not be
regulated by building
code and maybe gu I have another
question then just just generally so you
know so many of people have these like
pergas they buy Costco or whatever and
they literally put them next to the
fence um that are probably three times
the size of this little house I'm just
curious like if we're not regulating
them like we are regulating them if
they're putting them and they're there
and they haven't been approved then
they're we did one on uh fair and
cassingham that wasn't like that was
being built like I'm talking about
people go to Costco and buy a Pergola
and put it up um so I think that's
slightly different I've seen a bunch of
those where it's not like a builder
built one so I think her point is it's
Falls within our jurisdiction yeah
whether or not they get approved or not
that's correct somebody put it up is a
different issue yeah yes they're
supposed to I think it's anything 100
square feet or I mean I'm just which
this wouldn't be yeah I'm just curious
of how that compares
so was there an option to orient the
tree house in a different way would not
over
I only have the one tree so even if I
were to try to swing it
still he's wide open to the back my
backyard I think I
mean why is it a tree house what makes
this a tree house is it built in the
yeah it's built around the tree around
the tree and not in the limbs of the
tree but around the tree okay by the
definition of a seven-year-old this
[Laughter]
what are you showing me
there that's the house oh
okay and Ben's house is at the top of
the picture to the left can I just ask
you from an architectural standpoint is
there things they could do to minimize
the view like via paint via sighting via
like right now it probably looks worse
because it's raw wood I mean yeah I mean
there's no question that and you
actually have an architect on this board
too but um uh in another community that
I do work for this kind of thing just
happened they're making them actually
paint the roof the same color as the
roof of the house and blend the um
siding and well it's already done but
the painting it when it's raw wood like
this it is yeah it sticks out sticks out
a lot you know it is is a very big play
house right on the property line right
are there if you're asking me are there
things they can do to minimize
the you know the massiveness of its
appearance right there sure there are
um I mean we can go on for a long time
all right so let's not go on for a long
time let's um let's I mean I think we we
understand the issues here do we not I
mean does anybody have any further
questions or comments I have one quick
question based on that can we if we
would Grant the variance could we Grant
it with conditions that
they take steps to you know camouflage
it
yes I mean well you'd have to send it to
the you'd have to give the design
consultant the authority to is that you
want that much
[Laughter]
Authority
um I have I have expressed Ben his wife
the willingness to you know help on the
back end of that of you know if there's
something that they they think that I
can do to to make it better I will I
again planning to paint it a very
neutral
color and leave it right where it is
but you
know okay if there's other
recommendations I'm open to hear them of
course well I think that whether you're
going to vote for it or against it I
think we would all agree that we'd want
to condition that the design consultant
be be consulted since that's her job to
on on the appearance the exterior
appearance of this thing is that and
that's essentially what you're saying is
there anybody that has a problem with a
condition that's attached to it like
that okay then yeah the Design
Consultants not liking that too much I
mean we could send it to ARB but I don't
think that would be any better no I know
no I'm happy to work with them my
concern is that I'm not sure the
neighbor's ever going to find a you know
a that there's going to be a solution
that the neighbor's satisfied with gets
more about the math yes I do proximity
but you know we can do our best to paint
it colors that blend into the landscape
to the fence to the
tree that'd be up to you if you willing
to take this oh yeah I'm happy to take
it I'm just want to be cognizant of the
fact that I don't think there's a
solution that I'm going to come up with
that the neighbors's probably going to
be satisfied with and how how far would
it have to move so that they didn't need
a variance
well um I don't have the official
measurements but we think seven inches
to the that' be moving to the South and
um and then what 15 inches from the East
to the west but then we're not around
the tree so that's the right no yeah I'm
just trying to understand
doable it's already
built speaking hypothetically could it
been done and had a satisfactory outcome
for you um yeah I mean hypothetically um
I could have slid it Forward not attach
not gone around the
tree and then just tried to build it in
front of the tree maybe um the the part
around the tree is sort of like the
porch deck part right the structure
itself doesn't exact so the structure
have two different pitches on so I have
lower pitch that uh it accommodates a
tree Lim that goes over the top of it oh
I um and then a higher pitch lower pitch
that's the front of it to create the
entry I mean so I think the the thought
was you know again obviously we're going
to design consultant maybe um but I was
plan on doing some C Roofing over the
lower portion so the kids could see the
tree big tree branch is running over the
top and
then yeah so it's it's the flat surface
here yep that's around the tree the
house itself is not around the tree
that's correct the house is not on the
property line to
the just the just the just
the yeah on the
slide the house is what I
would so you're you're telling me the
distance between if you can look at this
Photograph the distance distance between
this wall and this
fence that fence is
yours his his property line this is your
fence is this your
fence oh you think that offset is you
didn't build
it but it's
on I see and that f is on my property as
well but it's his fence
well I see I see
I and we did we had to get permission
from all of our neighbors we had to get
it in writing um for the city to have to
put the fence the fence is exactly where
some old chain link fences were and we
got permission from each of our
neighbors to put the new fence exactly
where the old fence was but just make it
a cedar fence instead of a rest chain
link fence so did you know that it was
not on your
property at that time you didn't do a
survey or anything like that at the
time okay it went up um before that
were okay we did an addition on the back
of our house when we bought it took
about 15 months so we couldn't move in
until then then we had the fence put up
at the same time a year later we had the
garage built okay but we did get
permission from all our neighbors put
disend
yeah City to
be people did we had to get a signature
from each yeah well I I hear you yeah I
mean it just looks to me like it's too
close but if the fence is not the
property line that's a whole different
ball game right okay um any further
comments feel like you know their
neighbors they seem to get along is
there something you know
that the two of you can work out as far
as put a tree up or pay for a tree to go
in there so it blocks the house I I just
you know I think no matter which way we
vote someone's going to be upset so I I
mean seriously and your neighbors and
you seem to get along so it just would
seem if the two of you could work
something out it would
seem a lot easier but anyway I'm just
throwing yeah you're just trying to
figure things out here you
well we have other cases too so we need
to move along is there any additional
comment or thought here that anybody
wants to
express all right chairman if I may it's
a point of just clarification I don't
know the exact amount Dimensions so you
know if I if we if we just say a
variance to be granted that this
treehouse could be built within the
three foot by three foot setback I don't
know how you would like to word it
because I don't have the exact like
seven inches or and it seems to be it
seems to matter uh you know the pins and
all that so so if it was if it wasn't a
setback violation this is an acceptable
structure
correct we don't have the exact
measurements right that's the other I
don't yeah I do think how it's finished
which is be under my guidance some has
everything to do with how how it will
improve
this how this is finished is GNA have
everything to do with how it affects
your neighbor sure so I I guess I would
just give you a heads up I'd like to see
a little sketch or drawing or a picture
of a like structure so I don't want to
be the one who is now designing it
that's not I mean I I could I but it's
not it's not it's not what I'm here to
it's not my responsibility it's not what
I'm supposed to be doing so if we if you
do give that to me I just want on the
record that I would like you to you know
you don't have to give me architectural
drawings we can we can clarify that
we'll ask the applicant to submit to you
thank you some it could be in something
you've seen like but you know I can
Envision a beautiful finished structure
on that side that all of a sudden
neighbors would be happy to look out out
their window this is not it right now
and I understand because you're not done
but I I it's a lot of it's asking me a
lot to have that I'm fine with it but I
want to make sure you know that it's
going to be a kind of a
rigorous process in terms of the
variance we're being asked to consider a
variance without knowing exactly what
we're voting on does it make sense to
possibly
table to give you time to have the
corners pinned so we know exactly what
we're voting
on well here's I think here's the
problem right whether it's five inches
or two cmers the the question is here we
have a structure the real variance would
be that it's going to sit exactly in the
position it's in regardless of what the
requirements are because you can't move
it and the question is I think you
know listen one of
the is is this a problem that was
created by the lot or created by the
owner right that's one of the of the
zoning code requirements that we have to
consider you know there's all seven of
them we have to consider but none of
them are conclusive but I think we have
to say to ourselves hey you know uh
that's a consideration here so I I'm not
sure that that helps him what what can
he do come back and tell us it's nine
inches instead of seven Ines or 3 Ines
instead of seven inches I don't think
it's that's getting to the heart of the
issue here so the seven in is off the
off a pen so that's off the pen G
survey so I I know that one for fact the
only one that I don't know for facts is
the east
side with the king's
res so so it's my understanding that the
massing is there it's just in the wrong
location so if we turn him down and say
we have you have to take it down it's in
violation he can take it down mark it
piece by piece move it a foot this way
and a foot this way and put it right
back up and then he's legal yeah or even
easier you could just rebuild that that
back I mean the back one I mean you
could rebuild the back wall you could
move it six inches this way and I know
it's not the easiest thing in the world
yeah so so I guess what my point is if
if I gotta I'm not real happy with the
massing either but the massing will be
there either way whether it's there or
whether it's foot foot off the line so
it's just more of a question of whether
going to force him to move it yeah move
it because the project itself is not
going to
change yeah I mean that's kind of the
conclusion I came to is that he could he
could do do move it one foot and do the
exact build the exact same thing and he
wouldn't be come in at all yeah and then
we couldn't ask him to have it approved
by Karen yeah I I have a sort of
existential question here you mean every
house in Beckley can build this massive
of a
treehouse in their backyard if they just
move it you know two feet they could
build a garage they could build a garage
he already has a garage well they I'm
saying the garage could be where the
Treehouse is but in order to build a
garage now we got a whole bunch of
different problems right because then
you have is how much of the total lot
space does it take how far is it
connected to the house or not if it's
not connected needs to be more than 10
feet and all those things that we have
with garages right but if you just say
I'm building a treehouse and it's going
to be I mean it's almost hard for me to
believe that's not 18 feet but I'll just
take your word for it that it's not
somebody measure it you know how high it
is well it's a six foot fence so I
believe the 14 foot yeah number I looked
at it in comparison to the garage next
to it which I assumed is under 18 feet
within code and it's the other
garages or beneath it yeah to answer
your question yes we we regard it as an
accessory structure accessory structures
can be located have to be located in the
rear yard 3 feet from the property line
and rideway now when when this came to
me originally you know my verifiable
information was the fences and then and
I asked you know could we find a survey
from Meyers that was old and all that
since then he did find this week I think
recently very recently the back pin and
so that makes the variance a lot less
but when it came to when it came to my
attention it was a three foot variance
because it was right to me it was right
on the property line you know but six in
or six inches from six inches from the
fence excuse me but so it was a much
bigger variance that you know that but
to answer your question
existentially
yes well if this was built in the next
yard next to my house you would have to
fend my wife off here you wouldn't be
having too much fun doing that number
one and number two we'd probably move in
a couple of weeks because I don't think
she'd put up with this you know and I
don't think I mean I just think there's
something about the mass that just it
just can't
be a garage he can't just build a garage
right he's got a garage already can't
build two garages you build a shed it
could be a shed you could build a shed
now what are the rules on sheds it's an
accessory structure same as access same
as access 15t shed same as accessory
structure square footage requirements um
it does take the the code does take into
account multiple accessory structures so
that has to be under a certain
percentage of the overall you know
there's there's there's things in place
regulate that but coverage but
interesting that's in the process of
rewrite the code we could just review
every accessory structure thank you Sean
moving forward thank you thank you and
we'll never get out of here I try to
serve you the best I can you that's what
you give me all right further questions
comments all right can we have finding
of fact conclusions of law there
Mr
Clinger just again clarification we're
just going with the structure to Mr
Levine's point and your Counterpoint are
we just going with the structure remain
in place and not an exact inch variance
like we do in other cases where we can
verify exactly how far it is it the the
structure I'm fine with that if you get
throw out ranges of what we think it is
okay so we have just so there's
something in the record but I mean y
what if it's wrong then either Karen
review or we could send it to ARB they'd
love us for
that he would yeah I don't know that's
not yeah okay findings and facts of
conclusion of law for application bcap
24-32 for the property located at 2460
senica Park Place upon consideration of
the application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before it the
board finds the applicant has proven
that the criteria to Grant a 7 in
variance 7 to9 in variance from the
north property line and 15 inch 18inch
variants from the East property line um
have been met and to allow a uh
Treehouse
structure uh to be granted as submitted
with the following conditions the
applicant submits design photos and
works with the staff consultant to
finish um the design of the
structure okay is that okay with you
yeah how about members of the board
satisfied with that wording think it's
all right all right do I hear a motion
to approve the findings of fact
conclusions of law the move
Turner second
Marsh all right Mr Kingler please call
the
role Mr Rosenthal
as dad with a sincere hope that you will
modify it so that it still exists I I
have to vote
no Mr schik
no Mr Turner
yes Mrs Dorne
yes Mr Marsh
yes Mr
Levine I think
the practical result of a no here is
persuasive but I'm not comfortable with
voting on a variance with not knowing
what it is so I'm going to vote
no and chairman
bew you know how this goes either my
vote doesn't matter because it's already
goes one way or the other or I make the
decision that's tough tough to be in
this
spot uh
uh I have to vote
no
sorry that means that it fails now I
think when you vote no we have
to run this by again so that the no
votes are articulated
so
the the proposition before the board
would be um should we
uh fail this and if so what are your
reasons for failing and so we've already
failed it so now the question is those
who voted no need to say why they voted
no for the for appellant reasons you can
appeal this decision of course to the
city
council so let's start with Mr okay I
voted no entirely on technical issues it
had to do with what variance was it had
nothing to do with the Aesthetics I
couldn't get there and so I
apologize Mr Rosenthal yeah similarly I
voted no just because I think it's a
problem created in good intentions but
in carelessness that could have been
avoided and I think could be reasonably
easily remedied I hope it will be um but
yeah I I don't feel great about it but
that's how I sort of saw
it Mr Levine I'm uncomfortable with the
technical
violations and and I would say from my
perspective uh that's also true and you
know it's
it's kind of like one of the criteria
that I mentioned earlier is that the the
problem that is trying to be avoided by
the variance has got to be something
that is not really created by the by the
person who's making the application and
I think you know of course if you'd have
been aware of where all the lines were
from the get-go or even gone to the
neighbors and said hey the massing is is
going to be pretty significant from your
perspective uh and try to work something
out You' have been better off but I I
don't think that the criteria uh of uh
the the particulars of your situation
are such that a uh variance would be
granted I also think that that we got to
be careful about setting precedent about
going too close to these lot lines we
have this virtually every month and so I
think the sidey yard rear yard setbacks
are you know they're established and
that we didn't establish that the city
council did and many years
ago yeah but variances can be granted of
course on every situation is looked at
but that's where we are so that's my
reasoning for voting okay thank you very
much and we apologize but it it's a
tough case thank
you the next case is application 1 19305
involving
2468 247 to 2474 East Main Street and
once again Kelly mure is the applicant
and the owner is East Main Property
Management
LLC they are requesting her section 12
2.07 a of the Main Street design
guidelines and campus planning district
review
the approval from Bap to paint a mural
on the side of the building there we go
I got through that one this is not quite
as hard a case um I hope um so uh first
of all you've already been sworn earlier
have you not okay so you're still under
oath I wanted to admonish you
okay Mr Clinger help us with this
one thank you chairman
uh just like the one two applications
ago this board um any changes to
exterior structures you and appearances
um comes before you uh you have um the
existing on the right which is
previously the role uh mural the new one
is um uh Kelly's uh rendering I believe
right rendering of um what she would
like to put on the wall um staff sees no
issue with this mural um
uh but we would um request that the
board if they Grant this um the
applicant work with the design staff
consultant to fine-tune the details of
it okay just for the
record wonderful artist is here um so if
you guys have any questions for her okay
yeah and the muscle muscle back there
that yes I missed my class tonight I I
say I had absolutely no idea idea that
this was such a process very
interesting
ENT is one of our lovely adult students
and I think she's got us all guys I
think she's got us all yeah I do have
one question for the
designer I have one question for you can
you come up so I have to swear you in
regard going even ask you a question
would you state your name
Ellen do you tell do you swear or affirm
that that what you tell us tonight will
be the truth the old truth and nothing
but the
truth okay now let me ask you is is this
the
exact
uh design that we're going to
see um when in when working with Kelly
it is what we talked about yes okay and
the owner of the building saw it and
approved
sorry can I on that so she gave me many
different sizes centur you know to the
right I them to the owner all all of
them to put on of and then said if he
would Grant permission please pick the
one that he was most comfortable with
and he's the one that chose that okay
okay so from a design I only have one
question I think I know the answer but
my question will be uh perhaps ra raise
an issue and that is is
that person wearing a
belt yes and I deliberately didn't draw
in the
belt yeah now know where you're going
with it okay thank
you any of the details like that can be
added added or subtracted perhaps added
or subtract is what I'm saying abely but
if you subtract I mean I don't know that
was what she was wearing so yeah I
understand yeah yeah oh but my sixth
grade son's gonna see that in three
seconds
yeah yeah I I think if you took the belt
off I would be a lot more comfortable
with the I mean just because
of
that well that would have been what what
was behind the request for staff to help
review this so no I for bringing it up I
just just thought I'd mention it all
right I just asked one question that's
all I did right anyway thank you very
much
and I appreciate
[Laughter]
it all right
um you know when you're a lawyer one
person writes one thing and the other
person interprets it completely
differently and and this person wrote it
very innocently and this person
interpret it completely differently and
so I'm especially attuned to that kind
of a problem but
none all right um can we have uh I think
we're any other further questions
there's nobody here that's for against
this other than the two ladies one of
whom has already spoken so colors don't
like these are the colors
that we submitted white to the owner um
there was very bold and then you know
just trying to be inserate of the fact
that it's a huge kicker on a building
right and I do understand that and so we
thought well let's do some subtle colors
uh understanding the image of Main
Street and I think the subtle is a
little bit better we did submit a white
he chose the gray I think the gray was
the right CH yeah the bike is white the
bike is white and but this is gray
volume right yes yes yes and so really
would just be this big white uh I just
don't I think that that oh it's also on
a darker background so yeah yeah the way
it would be much more
yeah cool any other questions or
comments Matt can we have findings of
conclusions of law on this one yes
chairman findings of fact and
conclusions of law for application 1
19305 for property located at 2468
through 2474 East Main Street upon
consideration of the application and
evidence and testimony before it the
board finds the applicant has proven
that the criteria to Grant a certificate
of appropriateness in accordance with
Bexley code section 122.0 7A 122.0 7A
thank you sir um have been met to allow
the karate
mural um to be painted with the
following conditions that the staff can
consultant the city staff Consultants
review and approve the final design
design
rendering yeah I think that's that you
don't mind this one do
you just m just
asking um three of them really we're
just voting on the state of appropri to
paint a mural that pretty much what our
missive is here yeah all right do I hear
a motion so Mar thank you Mr Mar thank
you Mr schik Mr Kingler please call the
role thank you Miss Dorne yes Mr Turner
yes Mr Marsh yes Mr Rosenthal yes Mr
schik yes Mr Levine yes and chairman
Beall I also vote Yes it's a good
project thank you for doing this and and
welcome to Main
Street thanks K and you're good on the
sign sign
I'll do it tomorrow I'll put it in the
it in should also be yeah just send
caring the I'll send you her email and
you can work with her on the final
rendering yeah just you just
email yeah right yeah thank you it
should also be noted that there are
several other murals painted this last
week or so and that they're all over
Main Street right now and they're quite
interesting very amusing and colorful
and interesting and I know you in my
staff report you saw I said it was
timely yeah on the tales of the mural
Fest all
right do we have a motion to adjourn the
meeting is there any other further
business from anybody or staff none do
we have a
motion do I have hear a motion to
adjourn so
move thank you all in favor I
all oppose nay the meeting is adjourned