e
e e
follow to order the September 12th 2024
Architectural Review board meeting uh Mr
Clinger can we have a roll
call thank you chairman uh Mr Beall or
Mr Hall excuse me
here no B There is a b
board well was close see I do yeah Miss
pava Miss Jones here miss H here Vice
chairman Scott here thank
you uh before we get into the minutes I
would like to welcome Miss ponosa to uh
her I think first sitting of the archal
review board so
welcome uh we have been issued the uh
previous month's minutes as the board
had a chance to review those minutes and
are there any final
comments hearing none do I have a motion
to approve
motion to approve do I have a
second second
Jones a call roll Mr H yes Miss Jones
yes Miss penosa yes Mr Hall yes Vice
chairman Scott yes thank
you uh we reached the point where we can
have public comment for anybody that
does not have standing on any
application that we're hearing tonight
does anybody in the audience have want
to address the board for any other
issues
seeing none we will move into Old
business application number arb2 24-9
address is 236 North Columbia applicant
is John behall owner is yoaz SAR the
applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval of a certificate of
appropriateness for the design of a new
home we have staff report please yes um
this application is before the board for
a design review um and approval of a
certificate of appropriateness for a new
project at um what what should be
considered an empty lot at 236 North
Columbia just by way of background I
won't spend a lot of time this board did
not approve a demolition
request
and um because we got stuck on the de
because this board did not
um uh consider that property worthy of
demolition we never really did even
review this new project so this new
project is is before you tonight because
the board of zoning and planning has
overturned the but through an appeal
overturned that decision um so the the
job of this board now as part of that
decision and we can you know I can read
that part of it but it will take me a
while to find it but basically the the
within the decision of the board of
zoning and planning was the requirement
that the bo the applicant come back to
this board the architecture review board
for design review so that's where we are
um there are no really new materials but
I have put together um the packet and a
eliminated anything that had to do with
demolition so that we don't get
sidetracked so the new packet that you
did see um on the uh on on the on you
know the the posting of the agenda and
materials um was just something that I
kind of reordered there's nothing new
except for I think did you give me one
new thing well you you're bringing
materials materials are are coming here
tonight live materials okay see so I I
really don't have anything to add other
than we already had I think John you
should go you can go ahead and we'll
swear you in and you go through the
design swear in the applicant
please can you turn your mic on John
thank you do you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I do
okay you know uh just to start
with
reminded that
so just to clarify wait why is John's
handing those out what he's talking
about um we do require measurements on
all drawings
um many Architects and designers still
put the scale at the bottom but it's
very difficult to scale when we're
looking at them on a screen without the
ability to actually scale them so I have
um been
I guess pestering would be a good word
all our applicants now to make sure they
remember to put drawings actually on the
I mean sorry Dimensions roof Heights up
to Ridge height you know everything on
the drawing as more than just the
scale so since you have a pretty long
agenda today and uh I'll just say I'm
gonna make my presentation short frankly
I don't think there's anything
controversial about this house it meets
there's no zoning variances required it
is all almost uh 40 feet high on purpose
because the other houses on the other
side of it are so large uh
the um the style it's very similar in
scale to the house we did for if you
know herban DD Lous House on South
Columbia it's very much scaled to that
uh similar to that house it is um which
is on a double lot this is on a double
lot uh it's Stone
stucco I mean
it's it's a kind of house when I when
people let's say on glimer house this
the kind of house people ask me was this
a renovation or is this a new house this
is the kind of house that we we propose
for here and uh and as you all know I
don't know if I need a reminding right
all the neighbors every neighbor that
has standing is in favor of this project
supports this project
uh I just I'm happy to answer any
questions but uh I don't think there's
do you want to go through the materials
if you have them I mean if they want to
but I mean Oh you mean the materials did
you well they were just up there a
minute ago but I brought if you want to
see the materials are on a sheet that we
handed in but if you want to look at the
actual stone and stucko I brought some
let's hold on that unless uh specific
board M but I think we're going to give
public comment option first and then
we'll come back to the board and we can
dive into specific questions is there
anything else want to add at this time
not really I mean we do have a neighbor
here John do you want to you want to
speak to
support yeah so this is the time public
comment anybody that has standing uh uh
for this this applicant can come up and
speak is anybody in the audience want to
do
so John spoke at previous meeting he
changed his mind
okay and if you would come up and be
sworn in please and give your name and
address do you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I do johy 260 North Columbia
just to the north of this property and I
did testify before before I was actually
the owner you gave me that opportunity I
appreciate that I am now the owner uh my
only comment besides saying that I am in
support of what I saw previously in
front of this board is that uh as you're
looking at this I want to make sure that
the fence and the tree line is
considered I don't know if that's
perview of this board or not but there's
an existing fence I'm not sure as I've
just moved here what your requirements
are in Bexley in terms of height
replacement if that's something that
will be part of this application or in
the future uh but it is an aged fence
it's covered in materials part of them
dead in terms of growth uh but I do want
to make sure that the Privacy is kept
and uh it I would like that to be part
of a conversation with me as this moves
forward it's a okay thank you for your
comment yeah and just to comment on that
um all new um new builds in City Beckley
have to go to the tree and public garden
commission for our Total Landscape
review so that will be I'm sure that's
covered I do we have we have that fence
shown on on your landscape
plan existing fence I think it's on my
site plan but it's this one down
speak was it be I mean frankly we don't
know who owns the fence whether you own
the fence or we own the you know our
clients own the fence but
uh we want the Privacy as well so uh I
think that
if the fence needs repaired or replaced
at in a similar manner that would be our
choice okay any other public
comment okay we will move on to um
comments from the board Mr Hall would
you please start us off
[Music]
frankly I think it's a you know it
is appropriate for the neighborhood um I
think it's you know it's a pretty nice
house and everything I think the the
drawings being so sketchy are nice but
on on one hand they are you know they
leave a lot to be interpreted also so
that that does concern me a little bit
but I think overall it's it's fine I
don't really have much to comment on can
I can I
can I respond to that a little bit we've
the other we've done a number of other
houses exactly with the same type of
drawing and you
have I you have someone who is who
reviews the the construction drawings so
see that they're in conformance that
person is extremely
conscientious and really will not let
anything slip by that's not in
conformance with this I mean this is
this is drawn to the scale we have we we
have actually you know we've done a
little computer study since we started
this I think I think it's extremely
accurate the way it's drawn even though
it's in sketch form well there's no
gutter sh down spouts you're right
things of that nature we will have those
and how those details work out you know
the porch the front porch
it's you know it's it's hard to tell
from your drawing you know how many
layers of stuff is there and how it kind
of you know the qus is built and
everything I'll let Bill respond to that
um you know so again I I think the
drawings are nice I'm sure the house
will be nice um and I tend to agree with
you we have good staff that could go on
and um make sure the details are
appropriate
thank you Mr hire
sorry John do you have a builder for
this project yeah yo is the owner okay
is the Builder owner of the current
owner of the property right but we do
have new we do have new clients since I
noticed that there's two names on the
drawings for the name of the residents
one is Connor one is Warner yes do Dr
Warner who we have been working with
through this whole period the the
schedule to get through Bexley all these
Bexley meetings has taken long enough
that that created a scheduling problem
for that but in the meantime we have Mr
Connor who grew up in Bexley and now
wants to raise his kids in Bexley it's a
story of Bexley right wants to wants to
move back to Bexley and raise his family
here in this house so if you notice we
did make a few minor changes to
accommodate uh their their uh
their needs for their plans which were
slightly different than uh the Warners I
I'm glad to hear you have a builder
because
um there is one other design that your
office did that had a I think a
homeowner build it themselves and the
details just didn't work out so I'm very
glad to hear that you know this is going
to be built by a builder we you know we
build most of our stuff ourselves
occasionally I've been working but yo
has you know think about the other
houses yo has has done it Bexley one two
three three at least three houses that I
worked with them on and I think they're
all gorgeous houses um so I share the
concerns that Mr Hall has I would like
to see um I'd like to see these in
Hardline before before I give an
approval or at least a vote in favor in
general I think the design is is fine it
meets all the standards but because this
is from a demolition and now a new build
you know we just need to see all the
details we've done this before we did it
for the one on
ashborne um and with that house we went
into a lot of detail uh before we gave
our final approval after the demolition
we voted for the demolition on that
house so I'm going to ask for the same
standard on this house personally um the
other thing is I'm looking at the ratio
of wall Toof roof and it's a different
house in different style than the house
that's to the north but my concern with
this design is that the pitch um which
is greater than 45 degrees to me it
feels too tall um and so there's this I
would say over Monumental scaling of the
elevations that I would ask you know be
reduced um the front porch what I
noticed you know there's there's no
human figures in these drawings
so when you look at the front door and
then you look at the transoms and the
sidelights and the porch around I mean
you put a figure in there and you
realize how large all of this stuff is
to me it feels a little out of
proportion um in terms of doing this
kind of sort of modern cwo type of you
know style and so to me it just feels
oversized in terms of the heights I know
clients these days want higher ceiling
Heights on every floor but with this
kind of you know design with wall
Dormers and you know Gables that sweep
and things like that it just feels a
little odd to me that the scale is so
large for that kind of
style so I mean even if it's just an
adjustment of the pitch so that it was
45 instead of being whatever it is the
taller pitch I think that would go a
long way especially for that main Ridge
which even though it's equal with the
house to the North in your diagram for
the style of this house it just doesn't
feel appropriate to me that's my opinion
oh I understand um the the other thing
we ask uh on new builds is that we see
the first floor plate in relationship to
the grade the grade that's existing so
that we can understand what's you know
happening in terms of where that actual
main floor level is going to be we did
the same thing on ashborne and it was
wonderful working with your team on that
to understand how many steps up we're
really going to have and then what the
heights are going up from that and
that's become a standard for our board
is to see that on all new builds um like
Mr Hall said I think a lot of these
details are important to the quality and
the look of this house and as a new
build I would ask that you know this
application uh come back to us next
month with that information so that we
can further assess um to make uh a vote
those are my comments I just want to say
one thing I tried this house with 12 and
12 I don't think think it works with 12
and 12 it's too looks too squat you know
14 and we hardly ever do a house 14 and
12 but if you walk through Bexley you
see 14 and 12 on so many houses to me
that's the difference in making it more
authentic to Bexley rather than look
like a Suburban house so that's my
opinion we have a house on Broad Street
that did it taller than 1212 and the end
result was something that doesn't fit in
to the Broad Street Corridor in my
opinion and so I'm very you know leery
about these taller pitches especially in
proportion to the elevations so that's
just that's just my opinion this is a
very large double lot with a quite a big
setback too so you know it's not every
scale and Bexley is the
same anything else Mr H thank you m
Jones um I want reiterate anything that
Mr H higher said but I think my comments
are primarily that it's a beautiful
package and um you know and and looking
through the new design um it seems as
that the scale and design of the home is
in keeping with the neighboring
houses um and would be a very nice
addition to the community thank
you Mrs
ponosa um I will also not reiterate what
everyone else has said um I did have a
couple questions which I think have been
answered um the Conor versus rner
residence was one of them because of the
difference in the the plan specifically
one had Dormers the other one didn't um
so I just want to confirm it's the
Connor option that is presented tonight
the new family yeah the re the last
revisions I handed in in at and I
they're included are these this is what
we're looking at right yeah yeah now
actually this is the older elevation but
uh oh this does say what yeah yeah I can
bring up I can bring up all of it if you
go to the or the ones you have in front
of you are the Conor so you can see
there were there are a few minor changes
but it's almost like where Where is
Waldo I want to see if you can pick out
what the changes are they were very
subtle there are pretty minor changes
all had to do with a slightly different
program right right but my concern was
there was future Dormers called out and
so I just didn't know what which okay so
now we are planning to put those Dormers
in and they show on the revised plans
the revised elevations and the revised
plans yes because the this family needs
that space sooner than
later
yep uh I agree with uh all of the
comments here tonight on the board uh
specifically related to um the details I
think the renderings are very seductive
it's a beautiful home uh I I I do
question uh this is the the previous
version of the connection between the
garage and the main house uh where the
roof connecting was was much smaller in
scale can you go to the new Connor
elevation please I hope it's in here
it's the first one would be prior to
that keep
going so and that's the rear so that's
the same view where I was pointing
earlier so this now is a much taller
roof that connects in the two spaces I'm
guessing that's because you're using
utilizing that space more we need to get
through um if you go up one more pleas
or one more so I think that that for me
the previous version is more um
appropriate and it feels a little bit
more balanced than it's massing uh so I
think uh you know how this is detailed
and if if I know there's not a lot of
space there um but you know small dorm a
little the quirkiness sometimes we find
in in these types of spaces in Bexley uh
because I feel like the scale of is is
getting a little
large um I know it's set back and I get
that but that's my really the only
criticism on the overall massing I think
everything is quite proportioned well
well I less concerned about the the
proportion of the the main Gable because
because of how far to step back from the
street and I think it with the overall
scale of this house on the street and
the site uh I think uh that is
appropriate but I do agree that this you
know the person standing at here
uh this is almost twice that space and I
think that that intimacy of a front
porch uh balancing that with the
Grandeur that you're looking for I think
just needs to be further refined you
know it's very similar to the porch on
South Columbia that we did at the glimer
house extremely similar and I don't
think you're driving by that house
thinking that there's something wrong
with it this isn't a front porch that
has a big couch on it and you know
somebody's you know it's not so I
understand that uh so there's and it's
all proportionate so I get that it just
feel a little too taller or a little too
out of proportion with the maybe the the
entry Mass the connecting roof I just
say the connect has to be this size so
if you think
so if if that's enough to vote no then
that's a problem no I don't think so I
think it's otherwise otherwise it just
the house does not work for the new
clients
okay I mean I can put shingles on it if
you want it to be more subtle no but I
mean I think that's again the different
material there also helps balance out
the it makes it look like the history
the house has some history where you
know I agree with
that okay so any other comments from the
board this
time so so what would you like to do
well can I just ask a couple questions
so in the past all the wonderful houses
we've done done with submitting this
type of drawing have gone to Karen to
double check to ensure that we've kept
the Integrity of the design and match
matched our design with the construction
drawings except for
ashborne which house on ash the one that
was there was one that was demolished
because of the fire in the kitchen it
wasn't them yeah that's not us that's
not them I I can't thinking we haven't
done a new house on ash the brick the
Brick House wasn't them who okay I can't
remember the Architects off that's top
of my head well I think the important
note here is that we don't control that
as a board yeah we don't control the uh
the contractor the ownership who builds
it or even who the architect is you may
design it and then another architect
draws it we as a board that's not our
under our jurisdiction so um what we
have to vote on are the submitted
documents is since this is a quasi
judicial type of a hearing uh and those
are record documents that then have to
be compared to the construction drawings
and without quantitative data on the
drawings we have qualitative to a point
um it's very hard for us to compare
those um without you know we in this
case we'd have to almost do an overlay
of in a PDF over the the cad submitt and
then see how accurate those two come
together so and again that's not even
part of what we do so I think we as a
board have been moving uh for some time
now to request and and and require those
additional information you've added it
in the paper middle you've added
dimensions and things that help say this
is the size of the house right because
in this this we can scale it but my big
stamp on all the drawings we have issues
do not scale drawings so we get it but
there is you could scale this house I
mean we've done some work on the
construction drawings so already I mean
on computer drawings they're coming out
almost we you know we did work this out
structur before we drew it I believe
they are very similar similar um but I
think as a board we are we are
definitely it about making sure that
what is being approved is something that
we can then point to and and and compare
um so you know I I I actually would put
it back to the board if there's any
further discussion on this specific
topic um and I think it's has to be
related to this case and not an overall
General discussion um regarding
this well I just like to say we've done
we've had very successful projects that
have all worked for for the city of beex
Le working in the exact way that I'm
proposing to work you have Karan to
approve these approve the drawings and
look them look look them over to make
sure they match these drawings and
frankly you know we have 40 Years of
history in Bexley and I'm feeling
somewhat disrespected for all the work
we've put into Bexley when just because
you want to dot an ie or cross a te when
it has worked this process has worked
beautifully
for I don't know when when did we start
doing architecture review 20 years ago
let me let me address this please well
our decision isn't related to your work
experience and success as an
architectural firm it's related to the
overall process we work with all
applicants on so you are part of that
now because we are sitting here
reviewing your application but it isn't
specifically related to this project
it's related to all midal so I just want
you to understand that we're not here to
disrespect you in any way but it is it
is something that we are working on as
the board to improve the system by which
the city can then oversee the things
that are coming through for its approval
propess process for the ARB for Bap for
other thing so that we can make sure
that the efforts and the work we all
work together on to get to are
successful so please don't be
disrespected by that we don't we aren't
doing it specifically related to we
understand your history and respect your
history and success as an architect uh
and we we we know that there's equality
there but
you're asking us to to base it on that
when we as a board don't have any
control over that so it's not in any way
being disrespectful to
you so I just want to um say for the
record that this is the kind of level of
drawing that we have approved a lot of
times for Beall Samson Deets
particularly John um and whatever the
board decides it's it's a I mean I'm not
a voting member but I just want to say
that I have never had an issue
Translating that now I've been a pain to
John it's like it would be an advantage
to John to do it but I you know we've
had a lot of sit Downs where we go
through the details with fine Toth comb
because it's not the same as getting a
hard line drawing so if if the board
chooses to continue to approve a drawing
like this which is it's fine with me I
just want it on the record that I
reserve the right to bring it back here
if they don't translate in a way that I
find to be um what's represented
that's up to the board but I just want
to make sure the board is comfortable
that if you do go that direction it's
not a slam dunk in fact I think it's a
pain for John and whoever else could I
sit down and go over it with them but
and if we can't agree on something or I
see a difference it will come back here
no
question any other questions from the
board regarding that topic can I say one
more thing I think another delay we I
think our first meeting was May another
delay moving into the construction
season and we're getting we're getting
very tight to get uh into the ground so
it's uh I feel it's a big hardship to
have to sub resubmit next month I I
could offer a happy medium I mean maybe
I shouldn't do say anything more but um
that you you could also approve it on
the condition that the Hardline
elevations come back for a final review
and you can go ahead and they could see
the Hardline drawings when they come in
and at least you know that it's approved
to move ahead with construction
documents and um with the massing okay
the elevation you know the height Ridge
Heights okay the and and kind of that
gives Comfort to the client and it gives
Comfort to the board that the condition
is that Hardline elevations come back
for
review I mean that's that's just a
suggestion so this is a officially now a
RB application this board has the
authority to uh have a we have a couple
options and two have been proposed here
uh one is uh for someone to make a
motion to approve uh one could be a
motion to approve with conditions uh or
as a board we can table this requesting
additional information till next
meeting any discussion from the
board uh do I have a motion
I make a motion to approve on the
stipulation that the Hardline drawings
come back to us um for review um just as
was demonstrated a second
ago do I have a second to that motion
second
Jones Mr Clinger would you call the
role all oh can I have a any uh readings
findings of fact sorry sorry that's my I
got jump in the roll
call uh the findings and facts and
conclusion of law for application number
a RB
24-9 the uh board I'm sorry the board
finds that a certificate appropriateness
should be issued for the property
located at 236 North
Columbia um noting that the new build um
house
is compatible with the
existing oh compatible with the existing
architecture as shown with the following
conditions um the stipulation that the
Hardline drawings come back to the board
for
review any comment from the board on the
findings of fact you understand these
findings of fact
yes can I have a r call
please Mr hire yes M Jones
yes Miss panasa yes Mr Hall yes chairman
Scott yes thank
you next application under old business
is application number Bap
24-19 address of 261 North Stanwood
applicant is Brenda Parker owner is
Kelly and Christopher rup the applicant
is Seeking a recommendation to beat for
a certificate of appropriateness for a
partial first floor Edition and second
floor Edition above existing Breezeway
and attached garage with the variance
request from sidey setbacks this
application was tabled at the July 2024
ARB meeting um Mr chairman Brenda has a
case that's number 11 so she would ask
that you please just move this to after
number 10 and hear it together with her
we are happy to oblig we will push this
bab 24-19 to towards the end of our
agenda thank you please remind us at
that time I will uh that takes us to the
uh third application under old business
arb2
24-26 address is 33 north gold applicant
is Paul kegger owner is Paul colon
sorry did I get that close at all no
close I've had a lot
worse uh the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval of a
certificate of appropriateness for the
demolition of an existing home and the
construction of a new replacement home
this application was tabled at the
August 2024 ARB meeting for design
development of the proposed new
structure we have yes we have some
background um at the um preliminary and
administrative hearing for this
demolition which is a new part of our
process um the board um actually did not
request any additional information and
had consensus that this house um was not
worthy of preservation and not
historically significant so we um did a
little discussion on some details of the
new build but today um it really is
meant to go over them in detail and then
I believe you're going to have materials
for us next month correct so there is
already an understanding that this will
go go to next month but um Mr col Necker
has brought his architect with him yes
and um would like some feedback on the
home one of the issu um at hand at the
last meeting was the building height uh
they would like it to be 20 29 29 which
is pretty typical um but the block is
very the the rest of the homes on the
Block they vary and um Mr Coler brought
in the street Heights which are um
labeled here I did want to point out and
this is kind of I mean I'm not a voting
member so I say in support of but I do
want you to recall that this home is
very close to Broad which there's an
apartment building on the corner so it
does have a little you know it could
carry some more height than if it was
further down on the Block so with that
I'll um leave it to you to go through
anything you want or I can just go
through some of the designs or the
design however you want to do it do you
want to present anything can we swear
the applicant please
yes do you swear affirm the testimony
that you give this evening will be the
truth I
do so this my uh architect Jared Bach
and these I know or you mentioned some
of the details more that you would like
to see um and again the con the uh I I I
felt maybe I would misinterpret it that
there was a lot of uh angst against a 29
foot house going there but between my
wife's discussion and I and Jared and I
and that we're trying to build something
that has an older look to it however has
the modern amenities that somebody's
going to be looking for you know one
that we we're looking for and two that
someone down the road is so we're sort
of going with the Cape Cod style you
know but if you look by definition Cape
Cod normally just has a set of stairs
going up the middle of the house and you
have one bedroom on one side one bedroom
on the other and they're like 8 by8 or 8
by 10 or something like that uh we're
looking at having two bedrooms of
approximately 13 by 133 13 by 12 size on
the second floor and then in turn having
closets and uh bathrooms upstairs so
that's what sort of drove having the
need to have the wider floor plan on the
second floor so
um again uh some of the detail things
that can be directed towards Jared to
help his because then his next phase is
to start doing me some full-blown uh
drawings and uh and I I just didn't want
to send him down something the wrong way
and then all a sudden somebody goes well
wait a minute we should stop and and go
back so
um is there anything else that I
can maybe yeah uh is there anyone in the
audience that has standing that would
like to speak about this
application uh seeing none um Mr hire
would you like to start us
off yeah I I don't really have a problem
with with the height especially
considering the house across the street
on the Columbus side is actually up on a
hill it also has a Gable form on the
second
floor um I would ask that you know when
you're building this that you would
please keep that tree in the front yard
is that possible in your front yard it's
it's gone it it was it's already gone
yes it was
diseased actually Carpenter ANS will you
replant a tree oh definitely definitely
no no that's answer that that that is
that is part of the plan for the front
yard it's not in the in our uh uh Master
there but yeah I would I would plan on
putting another Tree in there to get the
shade in the uh from the
warning there are a number of details uh
in here here that I would like to see
more development of sure um given that
this is a SketchUp model uh or whatever
program you know things like your your
peers um that don't align with the um
the sort of beam that goes around in
certain views there there are things
that we as part of the character and
quality of
Beckley um we want to see that we need
to see that so those details are in our
design guidelines if you haven't seen
our design guidelines please review them
because they indicate what is acceptable
and what is not when it comes to columns
and you know freezes or you know Beam
work at porches things like that right
um the these were developed and approved
by city council and so they're important
to follow our design consultant clearly
can show you and walk you through those
but um I think as a condition of my
approval that I think we again would
need to see these details come back just
because they're they're just not clear
here window uh surrounds you know the
window frames are there Sills are there
aprons or is it just a picture frame I
mean well there's no Sills and yeah the
framing is going to be minimum we're
thinking like two inch around the
windows I'm sorry we're there's no seals
to the windows and we're we're planning
on like a two-inch trim around each one
a twoin trim yeah um do we have a
material package not yet that's I'm
piecing that together now okay and
that's I mean there that's I just I just
got my sighting package just the other
day the person I was working on it had a
death in the family so they had to pass
it on to a cooworker so he had to sort
of start from scratch almost uh but he
he did it with 4 inch trim and I'd sort
of like to see maybe a little smaller
but I'd like to see him rendition that
and see what because our our design
guidelines show that the there is a sill
even if it's just an applied sill with
that breaks the picture framing okay so
take a look at those details you know
it's a very simple detail to cut whether
you're using AAC or you know some kind
of you know uh imitation material um but
I think those details are important
especially for this style of house that
you're proposing okay um instead of just
doing a picture frame so be careful with
that I mean otherwise I mean I like the
window in the SketchUp model I like the
window um Mion that you have on the
upper Sash and that is part of our
design guidelines to incorporate that
kind of window in in Bexley but the
peers the the porch rail yeah the stairs
the what what is that brick that's you
know underneath uh at the foundation
line things like that stamped on stamped
concrete but that's these are all things
that I think we should see so I mean I
I'm I'm not ready to approve this until
we've seen that which means I would
would request a table um but that would
come at the end of this other people's
comments as long as you're happy with
the de you know when I get the details
if you're happy with the concept that's
basically yeah I mean what you're
showing in your elevations
looks somewhat different from your
elevations or maybe it's just the
SketchUp model doesn't show it as clear
but like you have your upper sash
divided into six whereas it looks like
in the in the uh in the model that it's
just three
right right the three looks way better
to be honest um it's more of a country
sort of cottagey feel to it but anyway
those are the kind of things that um you
know we've kind of been trying to in
insist upon on this board because a lot
of these details really Define the
character of Bexley you saw in the
previous application that you know
seeing those drawings is important to us
so this case I don't really have a lot I
don't have materials so that's why I
would I I would be in favor of this
application but I would like to see it
one more time with materials and details
yeah so I think we're really looking for
you know is this the correct massing is
this the correct you know direction for
style and just a little bit and we'll go
through I'll give you the design
guidelines links it's on the website so
that you can see but just to point out I
don't think that is meant to have I
think it actually is um six six um
panels
there and I have to see what the my
window people sent me but uh and then
work so but if you're happy with the the
lot and the size and dimensions I'm I've
got what I wanted to tonight Mrs
Jones um again I think a lot of my
comments were related to just wanting to
see some more detail um particularly as
it to trim um around windows and you
know door style all of those little
details that we won't bring up again um
I also feel like I have no problem at
all with the height given how close it
sits to Broad Street and I think the the
general maing seems very appropriate for
the
block Mrs
pasosa uh I I agree the massing and
stylistically uh I think fit well with
the um neighborhood um one quick
question this might be a drawing error
but could you speak to that yeah it's an
okay the gutter hanging out in the
middle of air all it's a it's a new
paradigm
okay love technology no problem um yeah
for so you're against the floating
gutter you know what I could be
convinced part the rain barrels on the
other end
you're good thank you Mr
Hall so I think the massing and
everything is is wonderful um just a
couple suggestions to maybe think about
the your your landscape site plan shows
a sidewalk coming across the building
that was the original idea steps going
up in the middle I I happen to think
steps going up on the middle of the
porch would be a little more um have a
little more grace to them
and and present your front the front of
your building a little bit better um
front of your house a little bit better
um so just something to think about
there the other thing is the side
elevation of the garage has a you know
rectangular window it's more in the
vertical Direction and then the one
underneath of it is a little more
horizontal um I think probably should
consider just a similar window down
below it that's up in the top um and is
the I can't tell it does the garage have
a loft in it is that why that window's
up so high yeah well it's yeah it's
going to be cold storage I'm just uh not
not it's not going to be finished R
anything other than I plan on having
flooring for you know so are there steps
going up to it or anything uh I was
thinking retractable ladder okay so it's
like a attic that's yeah okay you know
cushions off of the porch furniture
during the winter that kind of made
Christmas decorations understood I just
I was was wondering why the window isn't
there so that's that's good um and then
the other thing is is you're showing the
the the the man door going into it is a
4 foot wide opening and then it's a
double door so that would mean there'd
be two two foot doors in there um I
think that's you know again it's your
own that's feels a little clumsy to me
if you're just going to open up one to
go into the to go into the garage it's
just a two foot wide door but again just
something to think about on that too
My Philosophy on that
is that's the side where the vehicles
aren't going to be that's where all the
crap's going to get collected as so if I
have a four- foot door swinging in you
know I obviously I have to keep more
floor space clear but
yeah that's all I have if you have that
much stuff you won't be able to walk in
anyway
so uh I actually agree a lot with well
one I have a question since we're on
this plan uh how do you access this
floor are you having stairs or are you
just going to no like I said retractable
stairs retractable stair from the
ceiling of the garage yeah okay um but
you're not not having any planning for
plumbing or electric up there it's just
a no okay I agree that this window is
should not be horizontal it should it
maybe should be rectangular to to square
to match the width of this window or
vertical so that's that's I think it's
pretty important to to balance that out
can you go to the um 3D views please
uh so front porsch I agree you you can
still have Side Access if you choose but
I think it's preparative that you have
um front steps it makes the house much
more inviting it calls out the front of
the house it's obviously precent is
everywhere and I don't see a precent for
closing it off in your location um
unless you argue with me
now well we're we have dogs and so our
concept was was we would just have one
gate at the end and then we wanted to
sit outside with dogs on the porch with
us then just cuts down there I think it
it close off it close off close off
closes off the front of the house too
much and and and is is not necessarily
appropriate in this location uh and then
I I I've been thinking about this this
railing this railing is a little offset
from the railing that's up high so that
you don't fall down the steps and then
your gate I would like you to to look at
this moving forward we're not here to
give too many suggestions but I wonder
if there's something where you bring the
brick up and allow that to be a little
bit more elegant I don't like I don't
like this kind of concept yeah to bring
bring it up with brick bring the brick
up and that be a
little yeah think it's a little
different because you're it's it's such
a unique condition on a house like this
and normally you wouldn't because this
is your foundation wall and it's
wrapping at the same elevation but since
there's stairs here you've kind of
broken that and allowing access to the
lower level I just don't think this
railing here works very well with all of
this other stuff going on so I would I
would really look at it off with brick
and then or if it was a panel system a
metal panel something other than the
actual handrail okay uh I I wouldn't
slope it with the stairs I wouldn't do
anything kind of like that I think it's
appropriately scaled it's just um it's
just a little weird to have all these
railings at the different heights so if
you would continue to look at that that
would be
great of course there's handrails and
things that are would be required um
but that's all my
comments thank you uh thank you for
adding dimensions and notes to your
elevations appreciate that there a board
we like
that uh so public comment is good do we
have a
uh findings of
fact are we tbling
this get I'll have all the stuff for you
now month with all the the
samples we're tbling U Can we Mr
chairman can I make one more comment
before we go to vote absolutely please
so one thing to keep in mind if you go
back to the model view of both the front
and the back
yeah one of the things that uh we forget
a lot of times is that because this is a
continuous beam that runs into your band
this this sort of band here that the
column okay should be in line with this
on both sides but when you get down here
what happens is you wind up then having
an overhang on your brick so you got to
take that into consideration that the
brick will need to step out in order to
absorb that column and its base so that
it's not floating over with you know
over the edge the same thing here that
this brick and this face are not in the
same plane you understand this this
either comes out to absorb this column
or this steps back so that that column
sits fully on that we see this mistake a
lot and what we wind up with is
yeah okay that's it I'm
done I I think it's important to
understand that the relationship between
the distance off the columns from the
side and the front needs to be follow
the design guidelines so in the design
guidelin it's very clear of how those
relationships so if you look at at it'll
it'll I think really clean up and make
this you know the proportions of this
work out very
well so thank you Mr
H um so you're okay with tabling uh
we're going to need a motion to table I
believe I would make the motion uh that
this be tabled to a date certain
October October 10th thank you 2024 Mr
hire do we have a second second
roll call
please Miss
Jones yes Mr hire yes Miss panovska yes
Mr Hall yes chairman Scott yes thank
you next application under old business
is ARB 24-28 205 North Gould applicant
is Brian marsic owner is Edward cordor
VOS
bski thank you excuse
me like 500 tonight hey the applicant is
seeking architectural rev approval of a
certificate of appropri to modify an
existing second floor roof line to
provide actual livable space in a
previous addition that does not meet
current code for Headroom and ESS this
application was tabled in the August
2024 ARB meeting you have our staff
report please okay so this application
um was tabled as you said in the last
meeting um Brian wasn't able to be here
the owner was and
um the long the short of it is it wasn't
going to pass um the last design because
it just didn't um include any kind of
pitch on the roof or any kind of kind of
residential attempt to make it more
residential if any of you have gone by
it it this will definitely be an
improvement but we were asking for just
a little bit more so um the applicant
did table the application or we table
the application and um Brian's been
working with his client on some new
ideas to help it look a little bit more
residential and to fit into uh the
neighborhood I'm Gonna Leave it to you
to describe it we score the applicant in
please you raise your hand oh thank you
do you swear affirm the testimony that
you'll give this evening is will be the
truth I do thank you Brian yes I was
conveniently out of town last but no
there was the the previous application
the previous proposal which is shown
maybe yeah lot on the lower here uh was
very economy driven by the owner and
simplicity driven by the owner uh so
it's a weird condition where this little
connector piece that connects the house
to the garage was existing and it had
you can see sort of the dashed in
profile of the roof that is there right
now and and and for me I can't even
stand up in either of the spaces over
the original house or in the con
connector I don't know
what the intentions were 20 25 30 years
ago I think it was the mid 90s when they
they did it but all that's up there
right now is just mechanical and then
there is one toilet uh so anyway uh so
the the idea was to make some truly
usable square footage on the second
floor uh which is already accounted for
I think in the the square footage
calculations on the auditor site uh but
then you know for this time time around
to really work with sort of the roof
lines and the massing of this of this
section um to to to just make it more of
a of a residential scale you know take
all the hard lines of the flat roofs
away uh but while keeping a lot of flat
roof again for the usable space but then
just sort of um screen it with actual
roof lines and and and U Dormer profiles
okay thank you uh is there anyone in the
public that has standing that would like
to speak to this
application seeing none I'll turn it
over to the board Mrs Jones would like
to start us
off sure hi
Brian um so I think in comparing the
previous submitt with the new submitt I
do think adding
in the new slopes have really helped the
design
um you know it feels less
one-dimensional I think and More in
context with um the neighborhood I do
think seeing that side by side um the
former and this one is is very helpful
there's no question that the building as
it currently exists is very odd
um and
I guess so I think the primary concern
last time was the amount of flat roof um
and I yeah I think it all in all it's a
it's a good improvement from the last go
round thank you Miss
PCO uh I I would have to agree the
comments um I particularly appreciate
that you've um removed quite a bit of
that flat roof and um the proposed
elevation on um
is this the front side the garage
version um uh you've scaled down the
garage in particular uh and I think that
for me really helps with the massing on
um the garage area but the the new
Dormer that kind of pops up to the right
of
it helps uh ground the original building
a little bit more and so I just I
appreciate the fact that you've
rethought the the massing of the roof a
bit further yeah there was definitely an
conscious effort to bring back some of
that the roof line of of what would have
been the original back roof yeah and and
it's it's way more evident in this
scheme and it looks like you can you is
that the original dash line that the
original roof that was there before well
that's the one yeah
yeah those are my comments thank you
Mr
Hall yeah
I I think you've done a good job
cleaning this up um it really has um I
wasn't at the board meeting prior to
this to to know what the
conversation um where it went I think
this was
a um this was a very
difficult massing the or you know with
the original was very difficult to
address and I I think it's come a long
way um it's hard to kind of understand
everything going on with it but I think
it's it's way better than what it what
it currently is today are you putting
new sighting on the whole building or on
the whole structure I I think you can
still get what's there uh okay thank and
so you know I I put a band there if they
did want to preserve if they can
preserve it and find sighting to match
uh so the new could be above uh but we
know the realities of that as well yeah
it's it's vinyl sighing right and so as
I look at the North elevation you can
see the waviness in it and everything so
that's that's why I asked the question
there's there's a quality factor that
plays into that but um I think with what
you're trying to do in terms of raising
you know the roof to make a better use
of interior space and everything I think
you've addressed that with the out
outside um I I would like to see but I
don't think it's an option in this case
to have more of a a variety of materials
on the outside versus just sighting um
but again I understand um you know what
you're after here so that's my only
comment Mr
H yeah I I
mean whatever you can
do wow and that was you know that was a
topic too short of raising the ridge of
the original structure and just going up
much higher you know there was again a
real effort to kind of preserve that
scale the existing yeah well I mean you
know from architecture and economy from
the owner yeah I mean the way that
you've created uh a scaled proportion
around the garage is great the Dormer in
between just adds a connector feel to
the existing house so the Tails no
longer wagging the dog or the front
porch is no longer wagging the rest of
the
house um when you say low slope rubber
are you it's still going to get like a
quarter inch per foot yeah just flab Ro
yeah well well nothing quarter inch per
foot yeah um I mean the membranes they
make out there today are are so much
better than they were 10 15 20 years ago
um so I don't have any issue with that
um I would encourage you to change out
the casings of the windows is that under
discussion
no no I mean because they look like
they're dirty and got some kind of like
the cockings turned black or something
on some of these windows yeah yeah
certainly there's some you know in their
picture frame there's a lot of things
that just aren't right about it right
but again the economy of of the project
the the
owner's obviously conscious about that
and then also sort of has some
reservation of over improving it being
on
GED no offense to anybody on G and
that's not my opinion but
that's the feedback I received
well I'll reserve my opinion on how
Gould and any of those other streets on
the east side are going to see
incredible you know value increases you
know so we saw you know project yeah
exactly so I would say for the record
that I as an ARB member would would
encourage you to keep pushing for
improvements to the trim on the house
for the valuation of the property and
for you know the Improvement of Bexley
in general um it deserves it and
especially with this new design I think
it deserves it even more so those are my
comments thank you uh I agree with
everything that was been said
um I wasn't sure it was going to get
done it's a tough one that that the
front photograph versus this photograph
is is just it's mindboggling that's to
the same house
um so I I really and I think looking and
I and I want to say I appreciate the
before and after the previous proposed
versus the new uh that there is some
complexities to the massing of this
building and how you've kind of worked
on that to kind of balance that out the
best you can without just ripping it all
off and redoing it uh and with the owner
here last month and you know he he he
stressed it pretty pretty clearly his
level of interest in in in his
investment in it versus just selling it
out right uh and you know that's never a
driving factor for us that's his own
personal choice uh so I really do
appreciate the effort you've done in
this kind of second version to kind of
hear what we had said and and work on
the design so I don't have any other
than what's been said already I have no
additional comments to add um I think
it's much better and uh and I think it's
going to work well and it's it is Def an
improvement and on this type of pro pro
uh project that's where it's starting
You could argue that anything's an
improvement but that's not true uh so I
think your your design and the way
you've balanced out the the Ming of this
works really well so thank you
thanks
okay correct I'd like to make a motion
for approval uh do we have a motion
there's no findings of fact right we
have a motion sorry um findings and
facts and conclusions of law for ARB
2428 for the property located at 205
North Gould the board finds that a
certificate of property should be issued
note for the rear addition is compatible
with the existing
architecture motion made by
hire I have a second
roll call
please M Jones yes Mr Hall yes Miss
penosa yes Mr H yes chairman Scott yes
thank you thank
you that takes us to new business um
application ARB
24-31 151 South Ardmore applicant is
Valerie Hollis owner is Lindsay
Schilling the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval for
certificate of appropriat for a
one-story addition to the rear and side
of the existing
structure please swear in the
applicant do you swear affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I
do sorry this application is before the
board for the first time um it's for a
fairly simple um addition to uh one
addition to the back um I I think that
it just board members didn't did not
request this be put on consent but I
think it's just a matter of some details
like some window placements that are
simple um so I would be comfortable with
uh approval from this board with the
condition that any of those details be
put into the facts and findings and work
with me the design consultant on the
final drugs
thank you uh any comments you want to
present tonight look like somebody
pretty
straightforward just a simple um you
know hip roof on Ardmore um the family
just wanted more space so wanted a
family's room that could have like a Ved
ceiling but still kind of keeping with
the architecture of the home um Wanted
like a sitting area so then they can
hang out without having to hang out with
their
children um and just like the
functionality of a mudroom laundry room
um off the back of their house so they
don't have to go down into their um
existing basement and with this project
then we also are um building a new
basement underneath this
addition is there anyone in the audience
that has standing that would like to
speak to this application
seeing none I'll turn it over to the
board would you like to go first though
I promised you I wouldn't do that to you
but uh okay um well first I I I think
the project is wonderfully cited with
the rest of the house um I think it's um
massing wise uh fits in nicely and I
appreciate that you considering new lab
sighting on the house where the two will
uh be next to each other I did have a
question about the new roof pitch I
noticed it's a 412 and the rest of the
existing house pitch seems to be a bit
steeper um is there a reasoning for that
head height just trying to give some
space to the second floor windows but we
could always increase it to like 5 over
12 it's it just feels a little squatter
yeah relative to the rest of the
building um and then on the South Side
there were a couple of Windows that just
seemed a little bit too far
apart um these windows the one that are
um on the siding yeah those too and I'm
just wondering is that based on
placement of interior um program or like
so if you can look at the floor plan as
of the stair and also um we wanted to
make sure that we had the window that's
on the porch across from a window to
make sure that sight line was through to
get as much natural light into that
space so we're trying to kind of line
those spaces up to get as much natural
light into the the spaces since we're
kind of limited with the dimension of
the
porch um and that's kind of what set the
other window to kind of repeat what was
happening um if you can look at the
existing photos of the house on the
South Side within that current living
space there's a smaller scale of window
so we kind of wanted the repetition of
that window on that South Side so that's
kind of what pulled that so that
you know you're getting that within the
space you can get those sidelines of the
natural
environment those are my comments okay
Mrs
Jones um my comments I think were were
similar I think it's a great addition to
um you know familyfriendly living um and
I I had a similar comment regarding the
windows um on I think this the South
elevation um I actually hearing your
explanation for you know the Symmetry
and getting natural light from both
sides I actually don't have a problem
with the and also that's
um on the side of the house let me think
about that yeah and also that's where
the kind of stair goes down so they were
thinking of like having like a gallery
while there or something um but also
wanted the natural l in um so yeah I
mean particularly not being a primary
you'll never see it from the street um I
don't have a problem with the windows as
they are shown in your drawing but
otherwise I think it's looking great and
H those are my
comments thank you Mr
hire um yeah I think it's a nice
addition I don't mind the difference in
slope but it
I'm still not sure I understand the
little windows that are up on the second
floor with the existing house those are
existing yeah those are existing what
are they what's under them is a washer
dryer or something or oh on the south
side yeah on the South Side why are
those windows tucked so small yeah I
don't know th um so that's the master
bedroom oh so there's maybe it's a bed
wall yeah there's a master bedroom and
then there's also that's a master
bedroom and then the small wall um the
small window on the rear elevation is
where the bathroom is and then there's
Noe there's no windows on the North
elevation notice
that but um they did like a whole
interior renovation of the house in that
those spaces um three years ago so
because I was like you know there's no
windows on that it looks kind of odd I
hope that didn't come before our board
for that um no that this addition was
done in like the 90s or something so you
guys don't have any responsibility to
that yeah I mean there was there was
major structural issues with the the
1990s Edition so yeah got to experence
that my only other comment um is that
again refer to the design guidelines for
the peer and column details what what we
what's approvable what's not b
capitals you know I know it's a national
movement to just create box capitals and
box bases because nobody wants to deal
with moldings anymore for whatever
reason I like molding but that's great
please use them yeah so you know well I
think
it's that's that's all I have it's just
a simple one
here but um yeah we're trying to bring
in
um as much like having the the soldier
course and trying to bring in some of
the detailing yeah from the original
home yeah I I I get that and I just
think you can add a little more finesse
I know that this is you know you're
you're working through these drawings
you're getting them ready for submission
and the details frequently are not the
things that you know are first and
foremost in the process right but as as
an ARB and in the time that I've been
here we become a little more focused on
those and the design guidelines really
do help you you in the in the U
submission package you know when you're
getting ready to come to us that you can
at least show sketches even if they're
hand sketches of some of those things
and put them into your package and
future submissions we would encourage
that I think but so I get that they're
not CAD you know driven yet because that
takes time I get it you know you're
drawing moldings and CAD or whatever but
to have them um just developed using the
design guidelines side and working with
the design
consultant thank you yeah Mr
Hall yeah I think um I'm not going to
add much than what everybody else said I
think it's very nicely done I really
appreciate the um the the the transition
at the the uh the portch where you did
the panel look to the sighting and
everything I think that's very nice um
you know the north
elevation it doesn't have any windows in
it and you know I guess it is what it is
at this point so but but that does look
a little funky but you know I think
fortunately it's not facing the road and
so it hopefully you know goes away at
the end of the day um and I do
appreciate the idea that you're you are
taking the old sighting off and putting
new sighting on and everything so I
think it's going to be a very nice
appropriate um solution to um to what
their needs
are thank
you I think overall this is a very nice
uh design design uh the drawing subal is
very nice so thank you for its
thoroughness I do have some a question I
want to talk to you can you zoom in on
the the back porch
[Music]
area so my my thinking uh and a little
bit more if you would just into this
kind of Zone you know you have a fairly
large mass uh that is with a flat black
roof uh here that where your your faes
and gutters all line up um you have the
column of course
uh your finished floor of your from what
I can see here for your your patio your
deck is flush with your interior floor
no it's Dro down like an inch and a half
so inch and a half um and and I'm
curious how this will really look and
interact with the kind of rest of the
house because it's so foreign of an of
an object and I think there's two ways
about that is when you celebrate it or
you kind of minimize it and I think I
would think that you hear you kind of
minimized that that flat roof I just
don't know if I'm sold on how it
interacts with the massing and then
slides underneath the eve of of this
mass of this this roof here because you
know these overhangs uh and Eaves of the
existing house are so wide and they're
really beautiful um and that's not
appropriate here right I think
minimizing that here and simplifying
that is appropriate because of the
different roof type um so I just you
know I think there's a challenge here
because what do you do with this this
mass and I think uh based on you know me
thinking through it flat is probably the
way to go um I just you know when you
look at this elevation it's very
deceiving because this this portion of
this building is pushing out and it's
much more uh in front of you and it's
flat and then this is behind back a bit
because it's it's the porch uh and it's
tying into the same elevation of the of
this roof so you know this this
transition uh one the black roof is
going to lift up and it's going to push
up into the shingles a bit uh but I
think that can be overcome and not be
too intrusive uh I'm just C I'm just you
know it's such a different object with
the rest of the the siding break here
with the brick uh and then this is is
this a down spout or trim that's trim so
you have and it's set back this is
setback right a couple inches or or so
but that's appropriate that's great um
so that that can return
um so I don't I don't have it anything
specific other than I'm just kind of
questioning how all of that works
together um I mean I'm happy to show you
like a rendering of what that looks like
it's it's helpful when you do see a
rendering um I totally agree but I don't
want to necessarily on the board tonight
well and I don't want to delay that uh
because I don't think it's bad I just
I'm not sure I fully grasp the impact of
that on the design and I'm not sure i'
like to having different pitches there
but then the worrying about how to get
the water off off of there and having
issues going into the side of the house
and also wanting to have celebrate that
new family room and having that being a
special
um so I would actually like to ask the
rest of the board members if what their
thoughts are on that flat roof and if
the appropriateness of what they see and
that's tying
together I I don't have an issue with it
honestly I mean we see these kind of
intersection s not infrequently I mean I
have one on my house where it's you
can't see it and it's a it's a difficult
transition but as long as the flashing
is done
right luckily it's it's it can meet at
the same point so I mean structurally
it's going to be you know held in the
same way so it's just that seam right
there I I don't I don't even know if you
need to have it it's not a it's not a
shed you could you could have it be a
hip you know it's a low slope hip but
that way you know it can flow in you
know the water can flow in two
directions instead of just being it so
that you don't have this weird triangle
on on the back elevation the rear
elevation yeah so that that would make a
triangle here lifting up that edge right
but if you it would be flat across and
then you'd have the same elevation at
your your gutter I understand yeah I I
also you know now that Mr Scott has
brought this up sorry but
I mean this I I think you could have fun
with this beam I don't think it needs to
be so skinny like you could you could
make that deeper and possibly shape it
you know maybe you maybe it's something
that does this like the underside of
your sofit but it's reflected now in a
in a beam that has that shape just to
give it more meat it would also reduce
the height of that Pier which I feel is
sort of tenuous being so skinny and Tall
but if you if you were able to you know
thicken this beam even if I mean
obviously you're going to have a ceiling
that's higher but if the beam came down
to like the height of that door and then
maybe this pier gets a little thicker
but you could you could even shape that
beam in some way just to give it some
more character that's in keeping with
the house so it doesn't feel like it's
left over that's the opposite of what
you're saying but I think I mean it's
just one option but it would be a nice
touch or something that's so special to
the or different from the rest of the
house part of why I was asking about the
elevation here if this was 4 in that
would give you a little bit more head
room as you exited under the beam so
that would you know it's just that
because you don't have all the height in
the world here yeah I mean
it's the interior height where we were
like trying to get
at understand so did you consider having
the step into the house be like four
inches or something more I didn't really
so because an inch and a half is and two
inches are like major tripping hazards
unless
you know there's their caution tape I
mean it's th those those really small
transitions are really difficult so it's
some just something to consider with
your client then it would push it down
it's not uncommon to be four inches if
you're it's accessible and you want to
roll in or have a that's different
that's different but two inches one and
a half inches can be a tripping
answer and and none of my talk here is
conditions it's you know I think you're
you're well on your way and I think it
just talking points maybe continue
working with staff yeah okay in my
position I can't speak for the other
board members do are there any
conditions am I hearing any okay so I
got a whole list of recommendations for
you
Valerie I I write them down yeah any
other comments from the board I would
just like to add one condition that the
applicant work with the design
consultant to refine the details with
the design
guidelines may I make a motion to that
end yes please I'd like to make a motion
for approval with the recommendations uh
mentioned and the conditions uh the
condition that the applicant worked with
the design consultant to refine the
details in U in with with the U in
consideration of the design
guidelines do we have a
second second
fosco do we have finding a
fact no I'm just just making sure I
follow the right just following the
protocol here finding some facts and
conclusion of law for application ARB
24-30 the board finds that a certificate
of appropriate appropriateness should be
issued for the property located at1
south
Ardmore uh with the recommended
conditions noting that the rear addition
is compatible with the existing
architecture with the following
conditions the column detail oh no you
you just made it a general thing I was
typing other okay the applicant work
with design consultant in consideration
with the design guidelines and changes
required for this approval are subject
to further review and approval by the
design consultant you understand these
findings in fact I
do can we have a roll call
please Mr Hall yes Miss pinosa yes Mr
hire yes
M Jones yes chairman Scott
yes thank you okay
thanks our next application is ARB
2432 address is 2787 Bellwood Avenue
applicant is Steve Highland owner M ands
properties the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a new
front Portico
we have your name and address and or can
we swear in the applicant name and
address do you swear affirm the
testimony that you will give this
evening the truth I do thank you
D name and address please pardon name
and address please oh Steve Hein 8941
Dublin Road thank you
how Okay um this applicant is before the
board for the first time um what has
been happening on this block there are a
lot of these little saltbox houses
and many of them have had a addition
like this so this is in totally in
keeping with that couple blocks that
this is on and um you know overall I
think it's a great change there's some
I'm sure Mr hire will get into them some
column details and some um just some
scaling things but uh overall I think um
I would support approval of this with
any conditions that come out of our
board discussion
you have anything to add or want to
present tonight uh no I mean I got a
simple box built in 1946 and and the
homeowner building owner would like to
put a a front porch on so awesome thank
you and it needs
it thank you uh anyone in the public uh
that has standing would like to speak to
this
application seeing none I'll turn it
over to the
board uh Mr Hall would you like to start
us off please
so and I'm sure I'm sure Mr hire's going
to get into this too but
um there's and I'm going to attempt to
to be like him and really get into these
details as best I can I'm not that good
but there's some um conditions right
here that don't look like they're
completely worked out I I
can't I think this is the ridge of the
addition right is this and then this is
in the background it's there's a there's
a two foot projection on the front of
where the front door is so if you go
from the left side that wall comes over
about 12 feet then pulls forward to and
that's what that extra row of fascia is
if you will there you go that's the
house without the porch okay so this is
this is the existing and you're coming
in and then you're building in right
underneath this right this P cover and
that is a roof line and then a corner
just to the left of the front door drops
back about two feet and then you're
going to build a whole new porch out
here in
front yes so the St comes out okay can
we go back to the drawing then that
helps thank you trying to avoid it
but so will this have a gutter on it
with a down spout yes okay um and and
there were no overhangs on the existing
home so on the porch addition we did it
with no overhang hang so that it would
look consistent so as this comes down
and this comes out it seems like there
would be an overhang here of some sort
for these two boards finish way out the
thickness of the
fascia this I I don't think this has
been completely resolved and I I think
these you know again we we talked about
the columns and the design
standards
um and maybe assist your drawing or
maybe assist my eye is these two columns
look like they're of a different size or
further apart or not you know a little
tighter than what they look over here I
think it's partly an illusion it's
partly the drawing because board on the
or the door yeah and then when I come up
to here are there two steps coming up
into the house too there will be there
will be
one and there are currently four risers
from the front door down to the concrete
sidewalk okay so we'll put three risers
in front of forch ande one Riser at the
door all
right well I'm just this right here
these these two ends just I don't think
that's been completely resolved I think
the um I'm curious to see what everybody
else thinks about the arch I'm kind of
indifferent on it um but I do think it's
I think the new sighting I think the the
addition of a a porch in the way you're
showing it will definitely enhance the
house um I'm just not sure about the
ends and I'm not you know there's
there's some scaling issue here that um
is is a little bit bothersome to me
um yeah that's kind of I don't have
solutions for you to go into a direction
or something it just looks a
little un you know not completely
thought
out I have thank you Mr Hall Mr
Jones um I you know I think a lot of my
comments are similar um with regard to
the details not feeling completely
worked
out um I am not certain about the
appropriateness of The Arc in the porch
it does seem a little um in congruous
with the rest of the house design um
again I'll listen for other board
members comments on that
um but yeah I mean I think I think the
other thing that would really help is um
potentially thinking about just the
column size as
well um I don't know if it needs to go
down to one column the the two feels a
little potentially heavy for the scale
of the entryway um well all those IDE
ideas came because my owner took a
picture of a house where they had added
a porch that was identical to this one
okay and it happens to be in Bexley sure
you know and so that's that's where the
idea came from and I'm not saying it's
wrong it's I think these are things to
consider as as we're reviewing this so
those are my comments thank
you Mrs panasa are you ready you want us
to thank you I I'm not going to
reiterate right uh any comments out here
but I I so if you look at the right
elevation there's a 12in overhang as it
projects out towards the steps and on
the on the right elevation correct you
see that 12 inches right there I wonder
if that's something that you could churn
and continue on the sides it is such a
new thing to the rest of the house I
feel like we could are you talking about
on the house core and not the port I'm
talking about the new porch with the
with the stainless seam roof right there
there we go thank you um so that 12inch
projection there I wonder if that is
perhaps your solution because the the
porch is such a different animal to the
rest of the house I feel like it can
have a different way to wrap the porch
and extend the fascia out and so I feel
like maybe part of your solution is
already here just have to develop it a
little so the overhang in front of my my
columns you want me to push back because
it looks too pronounced no no actually I
I I would celebrate I would bring that I
would bring the sides
out oh okay yeah that's what I would do
the only reason we didn't is because the
house had zero sof
right right but what I'm saying is the
the porch is such a
different stylistically such a different
thing especially with the new roof
material uh that I feel like it's okay
to to break away from that U my only
other comment is is are you planning on
adding anything on the vertical
elevation at the bottom of the porch
because right now looks like steps and
it's just open to Beyond So Below the
deck
correct we hadn't planned anything
because it's probably about that high
once I step it down and I have the
thickness of my joist yeah I would just
consider it maybe Landscaping
landscaping or maybe even just some sort
of uh facing so that Critters and
animals don't like to go underneath it
okay those are my
comments Mr
hire yeah I'm going to disagree with my
fellow board members on a number of
things um I I really think it's lovely
um The Arc doesn't bother me at all
especially for a Bellwood house it has a
lot of charm to it it's it's not you
know classically you know know correct
or anything like that but it it
definitely has a lot of charm but you
know the detail of how the band above
the capitals Works in relationship to
these the the pier you know this
relationship down here and there
shouldn't be an overhang um those
details can be worked out using the
design guidelines with our design
consultant um you'll see what those
drawings show in the design guidelines
but I would say that um because your
house has zero
overhang um and this fascia board or
this raking fascia here is pretty
much I mean it it just projects 3/4 of
an inch or an inch on the surface that I
don't have a problem with that happening
here I don't know why we would need to
have 12 in at the front and I understand
the issue and the detail that you're
trying to create here in relationship to
what's on the house you're going to have
a gutter here it needs a vertical board
letting this go past that would bring it
below this this uh beam which is a kind
of a strange detail in my mind so I
would I would just push it back I
wouldn't give it to 12 inches I would
just make it to three4 of an inch like
what you have on the rest of the house
that would be my opinion and you're
referring to that that right elevation
yeah I'm saying just push this back to
what you have on the rest of the house
you've already got a
porch you've already got an overhang for
people it's it's all there um
and then on the siding you're replacing
all the siding on the house fantastic
yeah thank you it was aluminum and now
it's a Hardy plank wonderful you mean
aluminum that is so Sun bleached that it
has no no more color in it it's just
like gray yeah yeah it pretty bad one
thing that one thing you'll notice uh
you probably know that that that
aluminum covered a sill and all the
windows do have Sills and I would ask
that you respect that with your trim
replacement that this sill remain and
that you and that underneath that you
can put another skirtboard uh but to
keep those Sills because otherwise
you're cutting them off and I'm afraid
that the the the problem that you have
with that is not being able to get the
proper drainage away from a window when
you just do a picture frame when you
have to cut off a sill so I mean I would
say keep the sill if you can um wrap it
or whatever you need to do and then put
the apron underne it so that you can
continue that water shedding the way
that the wind windows were intended to
be um and the design guidelines show how
those Sills work with their aprons
instead of just doing a picture frame
because there's a lot of work in having
to cut away everything including the
sill which is an important integral part
of the window for a house of this age um
so other than that I would say look at
design guidelines with the design
consultant for the peers but if we go
back to that front
elevation there's a house on my street
in South South Beckley that was a
complete replacement um and they did a
front entryway that has a really funky
curved entry way and I walked by it on
my way to
Johnson's and at first I just couldn't
get my head around it and then the more
that I studied the houses of your
neighborhood um and you know putting
together helping to put together design
guidelines the more I just kind of um
felt like well if you can't beat him
join them this this is really kind of
fun there's there's some character here
so you're doing something a little
different even though it's an imitation
of another house um but I I think it's
when you get to this size of a house it
really is all about the details and
getting them done right so I would yeah
make a condition that you continue to
work with the design consultant in in
consideration of the design guidelines
okay but otherwise I'm glad you're
replacing the Hardy or the uh the
aluminum that it's an easy step wow and
then at the corners you're have corner
boards now instead of the aluminum
continuous those little caps that make
the aluminum look continuous that's
going to change the character of this
house a lot yeah so be careful you know
with how you're G to have these raking
fases interact with that new corner
board and also make sure that the Hardy
Board is cut so that one side's actually
going to be shorter than the other so
that you get a total equal dimension on
both sides yeah yeah yeah a lot a lot of
Builders forget that and then it looks
off center um little details like that
are you going to be required to have a
handrail going up with three steps or do
you meet the code for we didn't want a
handrail I agree with that not over 30
so I don't think you don't we need it
it's a safety thing you do do you
consider that to be unsafe and and we're
probably going to be 12 maybe 14 inches
from finished porch floor to dirt grade
and are you going to have plantings
around this shrubs you know flower bed
something that can help to mask that and
which hasn't been done on that house in
years yeah yeah so we think we can make
it look
better yeah and I think the comment uh
about the U you know making sure that no
Critters can get in underneath there
with some kind of trellis
or to talk to my owners about that
that's not been discussed because we
thought we'd Shield at the plants you
can do that but the Animals still get
through the plants you really need I
mean Lowe's has them you can go buy them
and and stick them on there they're
they're just lattice you can get them
with a diagonal lattice or a vertical
lattice um but I it's charming and thank
you for doing
this so since the drawings were
prepared my homeowner clarified that he
fully intended round columns those show
Square so I mean I will make that change
and resubmit but I I would I I wanted to
clarify that that that came up since I
presented the drawings to you guys and
uh I I think it I mean personally I
think that's great that' be great just
again you have to work out the details
because around column has slightly
different relationship you know than the
square so yeah it's it's a it's a better
it's a better look yeah it'll also make
I think the columns feel a little
skinnier so when you have two of them
that the proportion is going to feel
more natural and one of the reasons that
we kind of squeezed them together
because of the position of the front
door we didn't want to Shield that front
door too much by moving that the extra
six inches that we might have
preferred and it seemed like it blocked
the front door well there's a lot of H
there are a lot of houses in Bexley that
have the double skinny columns to make
it feel more
substantial and one of the most
beautiful houses is on south UK Clair
that does this uh and if you get a
chance drive down south eclair and see
how they did their details um it's a
house on the east side of the street
about halfway down the first block you
know what I'm talking about and it's got
It's just a white porch with white
double columns that are skinny just
beautiful detailing so you know I know
that you're copying another porch to
some extent but you can improve on that
too so take it to the next level if you
can
okay thank you Mr hire
uh I also like the uniqueness of it
um I think I would I tend to lean
towards agreeing with Mr hire that that
12inch overhang um is foreign though I I
understand uh and agree with Miss Pav's
position of like you're doing something
unique and different it's okay to be
different and not have to match
everything but in this case uh allowing
that to that overhang to tie into the
existing kind of zero overhang of the
rake uh kind of makes fit better uh I
actually kind of like the round columns
I that's going to be nicer uh this is an
existing window yes that's huge it's a h
not drawn correctly because they're all
double hungs and I just the check ra is
missing yeah yeah and I don't that
doesn't bother me it just seems you know
misproportion wouldn't you wouldn't
start there you you you already have
that but I wouldn't start there if I was
designing it uh my question really is
related to all of that and I agree with
what's been said so uh is the position
of the the stair in this kind of awkward
position onto the porch it's not lined
up with the door it's not centered in
this space so if you go to the site plan
please uh I know it sounds like you're
trying to oh that was it you're trying
bottom right there you're trying to tie
in to the existing sidewalk which I'm
sure is going to get dug up more than
this during construction but this
doesn't even align well our our site
plan shows that we're taking that
sidewalk out and shifting it good to
align with the steps so I would promote
putting centering the stairs then um um
so that there's a little bit more you
know access as you come up to this the
doors offset that's wonderful it's okay
because it's further back uh but
cleaning all that up I think that's the
reason that's cross attached that note
that you may not be able to read I think
says remove and
shift removing okay great so I think if
you if you would push these because it's
weird that they if that's going away and
you're not to tie in having them so
tight to the columns is a little unless
there's something else putting pressure
on it on the site that that's a little
awkward it wants to be Centered for me
in in my personal opinion uh and then
this is a front porch this isn't a back
deck um and I know there's many wood
porches in Bexley but all of them have
substance and foundational qualities to
it meaning that they're not just
floating so I I would I would have a a
big problem having it just be open air
because we didn't consider that because
cost I understand but even lattice uh
which is not a very expensive option and
not something that I would even
personally propose is a way to give some
foundational look to that that porch
because it is it's back that'll keep the
animals out and it'll keep the animals
up so I would really I actually make
that a condition that you can close
underneath that front porch and I would
leave it up to you working with the
design consultant because again I think
this this is you have some nice
ornamentality now to this Arch and the
entryway and then having it be floating
back deck doesn't make sense to me they
they they contradict each
other um in saying that can you go to
the rear
elevation uh your rear elevation in the
previous applicant uh we talked about
the the relationship between the the
porch or deck and the door yeah tight
that's a deck with either Tre or Fiber
on yes so you're going to want more than
an inch and a half Gap you're either
going to want it flush when is not
recommended because of this one is low
enough to grade will almost be on grade
that's well that's what I love so I
think this the Simplicity of this house
and the no rakes having a floating deck
well you can probably you can almost see
it from the foundation line of the
sighting line but there's two steps down
go from the kitchen on the left as we
look at it and then down to that door
level so if you drop this down two grade
and had the deck floating like at grade
you'd have three four inches into the
house which is appropriate and that's
how close we are and that simplic just
the simple relationship of those and
that floating deck on the great to me
ties in in a weird way to the brakes how
they're flush so that works well
together what I question is this this
little Gable that you're kind of tacking
on over the back door
um I don't is it see is there is it a
hole is it just some framing yeah and
and that's an opening there's open there
before was aluminum aluminum shed on
thing there's a drawing
below there's a drawing of it
below there in the circle
oh
great
perfect I have no other
comments I didn't see that well I was
going to say maybe a shedro because it's
a simpler little simpler less ornate uh
but I think that the Gable open kind of
lightness of that will work great
so I have no further
comments we have any final comments from
the board
I I want to make sure wrap wrap the base
of the front
porch with no design Direction
yet I would like to make a motion with
said conditions for approval we have a
second second Jones Bings of fact Bings
and fact conclusions of law for
application ARB
24-32 the board finds that a certificate
of appropriateness should be issued
issued for the property located at 2787
Bellwood noting that the front porch and
new deck in the rear is compatible with
the existing architecture with the
recommended conditions that the
applicant review the design guidelines
and work out the details for the porch
the porch peers and window sills with
the design consultant and wrap the base
of the front porch changes required for
this approval are subject to further
review and approval by the design
consultant you understand these findings
a fact you want me to put a foundation
in right not necessarily no that wasn't
a condition it was just that you enclose
the porch okay good give some Mass to
the porch it's all it's all about money
you can work with the design
consultant and it was the condition is
that you work with the design consultant
not that you have to do a specific
thing Ken
okay so do you understand these to come
see
you so just to clarify you do understand
these findings of fact and agree okay
can I have roll call
please Mr hire yes Mrs Jones yes Miss
pinosa yes Mr Hall yes chairman Scott
yes thank you all
right H not
mine it's somebody's but not mine thank
you Steve
thank you thank you okay
thanks okay room takes us to our next
application uh ARB 2433 780 eclair
applicant is Daniel albiet owner is
Daniel albiet I'm probably
mispronouncing that again
uh the applicant is is seeking
Architectural Review and approval of a
certificate of appropriateness for a
second story Edition above an existing
first floor structure of the
home we have well we can sore the
applicant in real quick uh name and
address do you swear or affirm the
testimony you give this evening will be
the truth I do thank you can we just get
your name real quick Daniel Al thank you
uh staff report
okayy this application is that's better
huh as for in addition to the rear of
the existing structure um
it they're doing a lot of work on it if
you the problem that I'm having that I
had and I think we spoke about it a
little bit is that the drawings really
don't represent some of the details that
are on the existing house um but but the
drawings are pretty accurate they're
very accurate in terms of um just where
things are placed and Etc so um did you
submit an an extra drawing today um yeah
it was it was just the blueprints it was
I think it was just about a change in
the one window placement is that correct
so yeah this is the latest version of it
it actually has to do with uh a window
and a door onor on the proposed west
elevation yeah so that's secondary
window to the left is actually not there
and the window
above is actually a double window in the
middle centered on the space and this
this is the proposed elevation correct
okay so and there's actually the South
Side that door is no longer
there the door in the cell I don't see a
door in the cell right the uh the north
of the
north so you've already removed that
door uh there was severe stucco damage
and okay yeah okay anyway the the short
of it is I'm in support of this project
I do think the details need to be worked
out um a lot of these drawings seem very
like line drawings to me um the window
wrap that is currently in the house is
actually much better than what's drawn
here so I'm assuming you're going to
match we were going to match what's
existing on the front of the house looks
like either new or cleaned up Windows um
and it has a a significant molding
around it they're not thin like this no
it's of of metal um we intend to match
it all the way around it actually does
have a sill that we would wrap as well
the windows on the front are actually uh
double casements and um the existing
outside of the five windows on the front
of the house the rest of them the
original windows
from whenever it was built um and
they're actually uh grided on the top so
those are newi is they're severely
damaged you can't even open the windows
uh very very poor condition we intended
on matching all of the windows to be
double hung with grid on the outside on
the top case or on the the top sash
three over three um and I actually I put
that in the the package as well I don't
know when it was updated or not but yeah
no I have everything in this document 32
pages and we can go through whatever you
need to but um because I think you and I
talked and I asked you to submit a
window package and so that that's why I
know you don't usually see a window
package in these but that's why because
I was very confused on the windows so um
I don't know if the board members this
is the
existing this was the original back of
the house
um and then their uh outside grid uh D
you know it's top sash three so I I'll
just take three over three over one
sorry is that three over one sorry but
I'll take a second and explain why he
keeps saying outside grid because I
emphasized very strongly that we do not
want to have grids between the glass so
that's why that's why we got into this
whole discussion about the window
package so please use your imagination
stick these windows into the elevations
that are here because that was a big
point of a discussion I wanted to make
sure that we have you know as long as we
really don't have a we don't have a
Prohibition on vinyl windows I wanted
make sure they were good ones and that
the brick molding was the appropriate
size and that the the um
grids the grids are on the outside and
not grid between the glass I'll leave it
at that but I wanted to make sure I
explain to all of you why the window
package is in here
anything else you'd like to add um not
at this time thank you uh anyone in the
audience with stany would like to speak
to this
application seeing none I like to turn
it over to the
board would you I be able to actually I
do apologize I don't actually know which
drawing you guys have but um the on the
back of the house
um so the only issue is is actually the
windows um the I I just wanted to make
sure that this was the version that had
the eyebrow that went all the way around
so this is this is the latest this is
what you it's not the latest the only
difference is the window placements here
would be the
latest um you understand that tonight
we're going to review what we have and
we can depending on that we can continue
to if if so choose we and ends up moving
forward you'll have to work with the
design consultant she's uncomfortable
with the changes which I'm guessing it's
sounds minor it might have to come back
yeah I I haven't they're up here you can
see the tab but I haven't yet opened it
because I don't want to money the water
yet yeah I don't think there's a lot of
difference between this what you're
seeing and that I just got it today I
think it's just about one window
placement difference that's it
about but I know not well we've had many
discussions not about this project uh
about late submissions and the fairness
to the board and that the investment and
the time that we spent reviewing prior
to this meeting but it sounds like it's
a minor changes is the board acceptable
to that's why I wanted to
clarify I need to get confirmation from
each board member are you okay with
looking at the new or yeah okay here it
is yeah okay awesome thank you uh can
you point out just a little bit of the
change here
so in the top left corner you see the
double windows there used to be a single
window there and it was actually offset
to the right to line up with the window
below it um it just based on the
interior program it didn't work uh we
actually putting a full owner Suite
restroom up there um and that is the
actual center of the you know the only
flat wall in the in the space um off to
the right would be a closet off to the
left would be the toilet and shower
okay thank you and that's the only
change that's in the update today uh the
other change would be in the bottom
right hand corner it's actually showing
North elevation I think those two are
flip-flop but anyways the bottom right
corner the top right space had a window
it no longer has a window again due to
the interior program it's a shower this
this spot here the bottom right oh yeah
correct and then the uh below the
centered window um on the first floor
that open white or yeah open white space
there was a door but again there was
severe Stucker damage there um it was a
landing to a basement
okay well I I'd like to start off
by understanding that the windows that
are in the window package are the
windows that we are to be considering
that's correct and not what we're seeing
here correct okay because uh the window
package looks very nice you have a three
over one for the most part that's the
style you know of these original how
these Bungalow style
houses um and you know two-story
Bungalow but so I I appreciate that um I
would say that the details around those
windows are important you have existing
Sills um again like a previous
application those are important for the
waters shedding of the original correct
uh opening and on your second floor of
your west elevation I'm sorry East
Elevation um that roof comes up pretty
tight underneath that
sill
um so just be careful when you're when
you're doing those when you're
installing these windows because of this
condition here you know it's very tight
so that sill like this drawing is not
accurate right it's not the right window
it's not the right it's not the right
trim around it so just be careful
because you will have a sill and then
underneath the sill there's no room for
an apron you're just going to have a
sill and that seems to be the case with
the whole house that there's no apron so
again this is not correct there actually
is a sill here yep but there's no apron
underneath that so I would just I mean
one of my conditions would be to just be
respectful towards that yeah that detail
when you're putting in your new windows
absolutely um other than that I I really
I I see where this is going uh the
drawings are not kind of up to the
standard that we would normally look at
we need Dimensions we need more call
outs for what you're doing you know
calling out what's staying what's what's
being removed what's going to be
added um but in this case because it's
mostly a window replacement and I've
seen the window package and I can see
the lights and we talked about the
details I think uh I don't have any
problem moving forward with it I would
just make it a condition that you work
with the design
consultant uh to refine those details
and in consideration of the design
guidelines and in consideration of the
historic nature of this house of course
Mr
Hall it's
a I just want to get my head wrapped
around what your what the scope is
you're replacing all the windows looks
to me like you're capturing an existing
porch off the second floor right you're
enclosing that to put if you want to
call it a porch I mean yeah it yeah it
looks pretty scary pict yeah no that's
good um refurbish the stucco yep so
because of the the nature of the stucco
and we don't know when it occurred but
it was too far gone 80% of the in that
one it's saying the north elevation
which again it's flip-flopped um is in
severe disrepair so we actually had to
you can't even see it um it's it's in
disrepair so we are going to wrap it
around uh and tie it into the back side
of the house which is all stuck on the
first
floor right so it'll remain stucko
you're refurbishing it we're
refurbishing okay with all new windows
the front porch Remains the Same just
gets painted and
refurbished um yeah so the columns are
rotted away at the bottom we had to
reinforce them with six by sixes
currently um but um we can we can do
whatever is acceptable
that's not in the
photo uh it's not in the photo no it it
was two Sixx sixes on each side there's
a 6x6 on one side a 6x6 on the other
side it's just RA are those existing
currently those are been demoed oh to
when I the house and it's just being
propped up by two6 by okay so our what
goes back then is that going back to
what was original to the house or are
you proposing new columns a new style I
I I again whatever is acceptable um I
can work with Karen on that um but we
can put those back by all means they
were rotted through at the bottom no
understood yeah okay I don't know what
was there before
those all the tin two tiny little 6x6
that was the twoo tiny 4x4 those now
they've been demoed and now there're 6x6
temper L holding up the roof
okay all right which we're not
technically haven't been
reviewing
um yeah there is it's a rapid and then
one in the back and none no pester or
any detail there very clean I I'm fine
with all I'd like to see it just go back
you know maintain what the original
intent was of when you moved into the
house or what it was 10 years ago or
whatever it was um
and I do like the windows I think those
are going to be a very nice nice
addition and and and and really improve
on the look of the home and everything
and probably improve on the livability
of the house at the same time so um I'm
comfortable with this but I think that
it's going to have you know working with
the design consult to make sure it meets
our standards is I think pretty
important because I look at this as more
of a even though you have the little
addition on the second floor for the for
the master bath um I I think this boils
down in getting into the details and
making sure those meet our standards of
course thank you Mrs
ponosa um proposed North
elevation so uh
currently actually I'm sorry can we go
back to the existing North elevation
or existing
photo that correct so that was uh an
entry um porch correct or an entry um
towards the back of the elevation sorry
there you go that one um and then you're
proposing to add an addition above it
correct um so looking at the existing
North elevation the massing and the farm
nature of the House of the wraparound of
the um uh the shingles coming down to
the second floor level makes sense like
that you know historically makes sense
and then when they've add whoever added
the the back little addition made it
something different right because it was
an addition at some point and even in
the photo you can see it's not even
stucco it's it's a different material
and so then the proposed addition um if
we can go back to
that I'm not so convinced that you
necessarily need to wrap that portion
around the new I I think that you can
call it out with maybe some sort of band
that diff you know that calls out that
level but I'm not so convinced because
the purity of that original House is now
I think lost by adding that flange of of
uh uh of shingle just around the new
area um so uh and then also um I would
ask that you know for for the new
columns U I understand they were in poor
condition that you would work with Karen
on that of course on the detailing um
and and going back to as close as
possible to what they were before okay
um the are are you able to go to the
picture um of the back of the
house yeah uh one more
one one more yeah so over on the right
hand side right do you want us to
terminate into you prefer we terminate
it into and just put a band potentially
there I for me it just feels the that
was the existing and then this is the
new and I'm not so convinced you need to
wrap that portion of it around the the
new those are my comments
Mrs
Jones um I don't have a ton to add but I
do want to say I think you know as Karen
kind of commented in the beginning I
think this is a really nice addition to
the house um I think you're certainly
hearing that from other board members as
well I think um it would be a great
upgrade to what is currently there again
my comments were largely in regard to
just needing to see more detail with
regard to to um Dimensions some
additional material notes but I don't
think that's anything insurmountable
that you can't figure out with a design
consultant thank you can we go to the
rear elevation
HST so
perfect um
so kind of springing up Mrs Pav's
comments this this is kind of an
existing condition uh and I think
well sure what she was questioning was
the fact of taking that and then
wrapping this new Mass which really is
going to read as a kind of an addition
to this facade and wrapping that kind of
belt skirt almost around the rest of the
house uh I lean towards that allowing
that to to die in on both sides and
allow this to be different but
accentuating many or picking up some
horizontal lines would would be uh a
good thing I'm just not sure that detail
as it kind of goes around like a brim uh
on that kind of two-story Mass makes
sense to me you are adding a new door
and closing that because in the
photograph that's
open um well it's actually it's actually
uh boarded up because theed door was in
such or condition the door will go there
antenna is is stco to the door and then
the door um there half of that wall is
stucco currently we are going to tie
into the existing stucco okay so we
would wrap it all the way around to tie
into the existing so you have a door
you'll have a door in the Stu exactly
and then the anten is just have like
board concrete steps down to grade or is
it because right now you have that deck
that's back there that looks like it's
the deck is again um the deck is gone it
is like it it's too far gone I mean it
was we stepped through it a couple times
so you know I don't know the budget I
don't know what your future plans are
obviously I think how you get in and out
of your backyard from your backyard is
critical you'll use this door a ton more
than probably your front door sure uh so
you know any any consideration to you
know to bring up you know I really do
like the front original front porch
columns because they're a little bit
more elegant it doesn't mean you can't
use a 6x6 and and work the details on
and make that work but it does change
the characteristic of that front porch
um and and the overall house is fairly
simplistic uh so in its detailing so
getting you know too beefy or too kind
of Monumental may may not work well with
the scale of the house so that's that's
going to be a you know I know you're
moving towards the 6x6 because you've
already got those in but working with
those detail she may bring it back here
just because of the nuances of that
absolutely but you know giving this a
little bit more attention to if it's in
your budget to kind of soften that
experience in and out a little wider
platform to get in out of the house is
going to be helpful to get through that
door so I think this is more of a
placeholder for you but I think working
with the design consultant to kind of
develop this a little bit more doesn't
mean it has to be a full porch and
columns and you know that's not what I'm
saying but I think this isn't really
working Landing space yeah I think
because you're gonna use this a ton and
right now this has railings so you don't
have it's not nearly wide enough for you
you're gonna one bag of groceries you're
going to be kind of bottleneck there so
um but everything else that was said
tonight I agree with I think they're all
good comments and um I'm happy also to
uh remand it to
design consultant to keep things moving
forward and if it needs to come back to
us it will thank
you any other final comments from the
board I'd like a clarification on
conditions for this
application do any board members have uh
conditions to the application for
approval the condition that the U
applicant continue to work with the
design consultant
uh in um consideration of the design
guidelines H particularly in association
with the front columns and their
replacement and that the design
consultant uh should at her discretion
bring those details back to this board
for review if um they are
not if they are not
um following the guide guidelines
appropriately I was just going to say
that I reserve the right always to bring
back details that since there's so many
unfinished details on these drawings um
you know and you've built up confidence
with me with the window package so you
did list you know you we work together
on that window package which gives me um
comfort in going ahead and taking this
uh condition to work with me but if
something we can't work something out
we'll come back here of course thank
you and I would like clarification from
the board if it is a condition or
recommendation to eliminate the skirt at
the rear um
extension I I think if it was in a
prominent location I would make a
condition um I think at this point it'd
be a
recommendation I would like to make a
motion for approval based on said
conditions Mr Clinger when you were
ready at your discretion please read the
findings of
fact what was the last spoke really Qui
recommendation that recommendation this
a recommendation considered it's just a
recommendation to consider eliminating
the skirt around the addition but it's
not a condition because of the lack of
prominent you don't need to put that in
there it's just a recommendation
okay usually recommendations when
they're mentioned in the board meeting I
mean the design consultant is really
good at taking down all those notes for
discussion with the applicant but it's
really just the conditions that are
appropriate for you know the final um
findings of fact also I'm gonna alter
the findings in fact well Matt Matt will
if he agrees to this to include you know
because we have we don't have to say
every time you don't have to verbalize
every time to be reviewed by the design
consultant whatever blah blah blah we'll
add in the design guidelines phrase yeah
so it's permanently in
there that's a good addition because
agree tired of typing yeah so we say
with the usual language or something
like that with the usual yeah okay it'll
be a part of the normal language for
every single condition of approval yeah
I need to redo the
template we're redoing a lot yeah yeah I
like that I'd like to I'd like to see
that new language oh I'll see it when we
get
uh when we get the minutes right or the
I'll send it to you yeah the new
template finding facts and conclusions
of law for application ARB 24-33 the
board finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued for the
property located at 780 UCLA noting that
the rear
Edition and front
porch and
window replacements Replacements are
compatible with the existing
architecture with the recommended
conditions that the applicant work with
the city design consultant and work out
further details in association with the
front columns and their replacement and
the design consultant at her discretion
bring those details back to the board
changes required for this approval are
subject to further review and approval
by the design
consultant that good yeah okay
you understand these findings of fact
and
agree we call roll
please Mr
Hall yes M Jones yes Miss panovska yes
Mr H yes chairman Scott yes thank you
thank you very
much motion I don't think we did we have
a second yeah it was motion that higher
motion but I didn't get a
second okay our next application is ARB
24-34
949 South Roosevelt applicant is Susan
Test
Tesa uh owner is Susan Testa applicant
is seeking Architectural Review and
approval of a certificate appropri to
add a second floor
dmer hello hi
can we swear in the applicant please do
you swear affirm the testimony that you
gave this evening will be the truth yes
thank you are you speaking too that's my
husband oh okay are you gonna speak if I
need to okay can we swear him and too I
don't he was you swear firm the
testimony that you'll give this evening
will be the truth yes thank
you and then uh name and address
officially for the record uh Sue and Jim
Testa 949 South Roosevelt thank
you uh staff report please okay this is
a um project that the homeowner is
taking on um without a architect or
designer um when it first came to me I
kind of um was just gonna say how about
an architect or designer but um the
homeowner wanted to go ahead and and try
so um I supplied the applicant which I
always do with the design guidelines
some sections from the design guidelines
as well as sample drawings of how things
should look so um if I kept in the
original well this is what our end
result was at this point um which is a
tremendous different from difference
from um where we started uh this is the
house it's a little house on South
Roosevelt um they're going to be it's
going to be a whole package with window
replacements and a a dormer on the back
um
that let's see I'm looking for the
original drawings they have been redone
many times I've worked with the owner
this was the original drawing so we
worked through this a lot and um
complete with a ladder in the photo yeah
so we worked on transitioning from you
know scale and um uh elevations combined
with plans so I think we really did get
pretty far um with short of hiring a a
designer or architect um this is where
we are
however I have made sure that the
applicant and and now I think it looks
you know pretty reasonable that the
heights are right the Dormer um is the
right proportions there's windows in the
Dormer that work um we still have a
little little trickiness with this um
The Landing is still vertical oh sorry
about that that's okay and door is
really short but um we're we're getting
there um I just want the board to know
that if the board decides to go ahead
and approve the design of this with the
condition that they further work the
drawings the applicant is well aware
that this won't go much further without
a drafts person in into getting building
permits yeah so um because started
construction drawings okay yeah
so sorry for the sophomoric look I I'm
happy to work with the applicant because
it is a very simple project on a very
tiny house um but I just want to be
clear that that H where we've come from
and where we still need to get to and I
think Sue and I've been talking on the
phone you know I haven't done any of the
work she's done it all but I've given
her some sample drawings of um designers
and Architects that we work with all the
time to kind of see what we mean by um
elevations and
plans thank you uh anything you want
would like to add before we hear from
the board I think Karen did a great job
of summation we're just doing a shed
Dormer in the back to give a a master
suite to the second floor it's a very
small little house um so I know based on
the window placement I I get it it's not
centered or whatever the way you would
like to see aesthetically it is the rear
of the house however and looking at it
the left side of the windows on the
second floor is the bathroom and the
right side of the windows is the walk-in
closet there's really no way to change
that so it is what it is uh we are doing
a whole house window package as well um
none of the windows are the same size no
two windows are the same size in the
house yeah so it's a
project thank you uh anyone in the
public withstanding uh want to come
speak uh tonight on this project oh can
I add one thing sorry before you do that
there is a slight um porch renov slight
porch porch renovation too um it may
seem like um weird that it's just this
brown but it's actually kind of what's
there we're doing
a it's really yeah um but I just want to
make sure we we that needs to be
replaced yeah the we're gone the the the
railing corner post
is um in the the porch
itself otherwise I take that out one
small column in there it's kind of
structural so we're just going to do a
cedar wrap on
it okay uh seeing no one in the public
uh I'll turn it over to the board Mr
Hall you like to
start yeah
um
it's I I I get I got my head you know
looking at this PR I think I got my head
wrapped around your
int and what
you're to do I get the idea D that makes
sense to me what you're trying to do
with the porch U there is the one sort
of heavy cross the of
it work and you're continue that down it
seems a little heavy to me at the end of
the day but it's it's really hard it
helps me drawing
um
not
the I I question the shutters on the two
windows on the door it doesn't look like
putting shutters anywhere else on the
building no well it was just kind of to
pull the we're gonna do like a sagey
olive color to the stucco and we're
gonna do white vinyl sighing on the
Dormer which will match the white vinyl
sighting of the new garage getting built
so we wanted to kind of tie in that
sagey green color to the Dormer by by
using shutters and also um Karen had
said she really wanted to see more
windows across the Dormer but it just
doesn't work with the floor plan so we
thought the shutters might balance that
I'm fine taking the shutter well we're
fine taking the shutters off if you
don't want
them again just get back to the you know
the qu shutters like they're
down it's like about 4 in below the sil
the window and I think that's Ste it's
just yeah yeah so my recommendation with
this would be that you mentioned that
you are um construction drawings doing
work on yes I think I would like to see
those come back to the board and and
review those actually I I don't have I I
really don't have an issue with what
you're trying to do here it's really
just difficult to
some of the details yeah Karen's thrown
a couple something up there that I've
already submitted upside down it is
upside
down there should be
two right yeah she got them on
Monday so but you would be doing
exterior Elations Aral with
constru yeah yeah yeah there's another
piece I don't know what the other do you
have the other one
up I emailed you too okay okay all right
I know I know I'm sorry I'm
sorry but that's you know that's my
general comment overall I think we just
need better drawings to sort of
understand the details and what you're
trying to achieve here I you know add a
on the back run house that makes sense
sounds like you got some issues with the
porch and falling apart um you know
window replacement that all makes sense
me um and it's it's you know we're here
to review details and overall concept
and there just a lot
ofil as far as what like like what just
for the
elevations actually like the shutters
you know I I don't think shutle shutters
are
necessary Windows get that but then if
they're going to be shutters they need
to be sized appropriately for Windows um
the steps going up to the porch the door
in the back I you know this the door
looks like
it's you a couple feet above the landing
I don't I don't quite understand that
part of the drawing apologies just yeah
a
novice I I completely understand all
that so but if you're going to haveu
drawings then that will help us get a we
intend it to be a step down yeah so
there will it won't be level at all
it'll be down yeah how much of a step
seven seven
inches that's all okay
okay yeah that's the scale there
yeah okay Mr H um clarification are we
rewing the garage or
no so it's just designed it's just
staff sorry yeah the garage does not
need to go through this boort I I mean
my recommendation was to separate them
into two applications but it's just
staff review yeah okay but it will need
to match the house right details
and additional window correct um well I
think I get
it uh and I really appreciate all the
dimensions that you put on here
something we don't get from you know
some of our Architects um we noticed
that
tonight so very I'm very grateful I I
think I get the concept here I I would
also agree with Mr Hall that um I would
like to see this again with you know all
the details Incorporated so that we can
really I mean there's things on here
that you know we're just not able to
read um for a complete review that's my
feeling
um in particular I mean I I don't have a
problem with the concept or the Dormer
or any of that but you know the Dormer
above is going to have some kind of
siding on it or right and then how do
you break between the stucco and the
vinyl that's a very difficult detail you
have to really think about that I'm not
saying I need to see that but the
because the design consultant could help
you through that but going from Vinyl to
stucco can look really bad and can also
come apart patient board on there with
the gutter on top and that would stay
that stays so the bottom of the exciting
it's going to stop at the bottom of the
facial board and the facial board is
proud of the stucco it's about a quarter
inch out just a quarter inch wow okay um
the other thing part of the problem with
the leaking in the house right if they
would built that out so you're gonna
build it out more uh I possibly can once
all the gutters off yes
but the less I have to change everything
along the house the better off I
am well I mean it's just at a
consideration because you know the Arch
US Architects on the board you know
we're that's the kind of thing
we know is going to be an issue even
though it's not detailed and those those
are the kind of things that we typically
make comments on for the benefit of the
homeowner when or the applicant that you
know when we see something like a flat
roof that doesn't intersect properly or
a facial board that you know could cause
water problems down the road it's just
really a it's it's a it's a
consideration that we add in on top of
our general review just to help you
where so that that detail is something
you can work out with the city staff but
I just wanted to call attention to it
just to make sure you you were aware
have you considered just having the
stucco go all the way up just making it
a wall Dormer all the way
down that not just because of the timing
we're trying to get everything done
before the end of the
year um the other thing about wrapping
the metal post at the
front uh I I can't agree with that I I
really think that you could you can have
this shored up two grade with a couple
6x6 posts that would Shore it while you
put in a new structural column meaning
just a 6x6 that would go straight down
and H that corner and then you would
wrap it properly but to just wrap the
metal that's there I think that's going
to cause it's not going to last
you're going to have an air gap you know
behind the cedar um the proportions are
going to look weird and because you're
wrapping well you got metal work that
you're just simply wrapping right so
when you put the two pieces together
around the metal well no it's it was
going to be framed with wood through the
grate and then the the wrap is going to
be nailed to that you're actually going
to fill each of those shapes no well
it'll be be somewhat Hollow but it would
be I've already got it measured out and
had it planned now the dimension of that
railing across is 12 inches so it will
look pretty wide but it'll match what's
on the top now because what's on the top
now it's 14 inches yeah but a beam
doesn't have to match the column I I
don't I just I can't I can't agree with
that solution um I I honestly would make
it a condition that this column
condition at the corner be made more
appropriate um I've never seen a wrap
like that done on on a a metal you know
I mean we've seen different kinds of
decorative metal things like this
they're all around Bexley but if but
we've never seen them wrapped and I just
think if you're going to support that
column support that corner you should do
you should really concentrate on
supporting that corner and put a real
colum in there okay um I will jump in
here and I had a house on casting ham
that had the metal wrapped and ended up
not knowing that they were there took
off the wood wrap and was shocked to
find the metal uh little rusty But Metal
supports for the roof um yeah because if
the if the metal rusts and or the even
the even the connections rust this the
seated of wrap is not structural it's
not going to be able to hold it up on
top of that the proportions are just
wrong so I I just think for the
well-being of this house that it needs
to be replaced I mean we're not married
to that that was just a solution that we
came up with but we can yeah I don't
mind doing a post um but otherwise I
mean it's pretty simple yeah um the back
little stepout porch um it would it
would have been nice to see you know
that as it's really going to look maybe
we can see that in um the next round
because I would really like
to see this again if that doesn't get
approved as a condition then I would
just simply ask that the applicant work
with the design consultant to make sure
those details are appropriate but my one
condition would be that that column at
the front be worked out in a with the
design consultant and in consideration
of the design guidelines with a new a
new post
sure thank you Mrs
Jones uh I commend you for getting as
far as you did with the draw ings I know
that's not an easy task um you know
especially if you've never done this
before I think my comments you know are
pretty similar to uh Mr halls and Mr
hirers um I you know I think some of
these things are hard to evaluate
without further detail and so again I
think um really understanding you know
what these things look like in the form
of um construction documents would be
really important for us to um see prior
to giving that final
okay thank you Miss
Pasa um I I also would like to commend
you this is really hard to do um if you
know and and seeing where it came to
where it is now it's a lot of work that
you've put into it so I appreciate thank
you time put into it um I don't have an
issue with the shutters as long as
they're proportioned correctly so they
are the right size they actually are
half of the window as they would
proportion that sort of stuff that's
fine um but but there is a level of
detail that is missing here that I feel
like um we would like to see um and and
maybe it's you know working with um
staff uh but I I do feel like especially
if there is some sort of trim piece here
that is also fascia board it's also
holding a g that's not even presented
like that sort of stuff that really
helps us understand the difference of
how the two materials connect um and it
also helps shape proportion um so I I
would agree that I would like to see it
again I realize it's a lot more work on
you well it's just a whole month of
delay it's just is there any way we can
just work with a design consultant to
get it to
approval a whole another month is just
huge to us
it's not just on me unfortunately I feel
like we all feel there's a lack of of
detailing in here that I I I think that
concept the massing color the two-tone I
think all that is great um so just some
details that that need to be worked I
mean would would well I I would like to
make um a consideration that um this be
uh we make the mo that this be approved
with the conditions with the condition
that um the front post be as I mentioned
and it be changed out but that the
details be worked out with the design
consultant and that those details are to
be brought before this
board or or shown to this board and if
there's any
um issues along the way that the design
consultant or the board feels need to be
re-reviewed that we would have that
option to bring it back to for review I
don't see that happening but at least
we'll have a chance to look at the
details and let you move forward does
that is that fair yeah I mean that that
would move them ahead not slow anything
down and'll yes not true so the
condition would be that we would see it
you know in in the process so that's
different than having to come back with
con with these conceptual drawings you
would move ahead okay finish your
Construction documents and your
elevations that need to be and bring
them back here but it keeps you moving
okay you're going to need those anyway
for your permit so correct yeah yeah
it's basically just it's just like a
regular approval but they want to see
where you are at the by the next meeting
okay so they can see that the details
are are done correctly on the
construction documents okay so overall I
also agree uh with the comments here
tonight uh I think one that did not get
touched on is your
your actual uh roof condition and your
rake can you go to the side elevation
the existing house actually has a very
simple uh rake conditions front of the
house you can barely see the rake Edge
there if you actually go to a photo and
yes I but here you have a 10- inch so
you have a monster monster thickness
slab that's doesn't want to be it want
my I told her to do the 10 inch because
I was going two by 10 and I said well
we'll just so your architect got got it
right based on owner's
wishes is getting shot down by the board
I I just think it's too big it's too too
too too beefy so that needs to be more
balanced doesn't have to be exactly the
same but it needs to be similar in
scale and I would also recommend if you
can go to the rear
elevation um and I love the photo ad no
I i' love your drawings um I get they're
not detailed uh can I ask what program
you use
Microsoft
Word okay everybody everybody needs to
respect it this is respect right here
you know how hard this is in word yes so
hats off hands down we need to talk
amazing hours and hours of
work I didn't know that program still
existed well and did this I had no idea
I didn't know you could do that all I
would recommend is is is the usability
when you get into exact how and I get
that that the plan is showing up and
there's some scale issues that's fine
yeah you'll work through that when the
but in the in the yeah I went back in
the in the daily use of this with if the
hand if this is truly your scale this is
gonna be really tight and I know you
have a window so you can't go left yeah
I would recommend pushing it out a
little bit to the right and then also
thinking of any future deck that you may
build and what that might look like if
you ever ever a future deck if you ever
May build a deck we've actually we went
looked at a house that just came on the
market on
Chelsea um and it has more of like a
10x10 deck off the back door and we both
looked at each other and said what are
we doing we should just do a de well and
you have the space because you have
these two you don't want to build over
these windows there's an air
conditioning unit there right here I
don't see the photograph here though no
it's it's being mov to the side and I do
question this yeah your condensing line
that's running down the outside of the
building that's for the mini split the
mini split which is which which is again
another photo if you scroll down a
little bit in plan that's a mini split
photo no that's the that's there back
may may I inject for a comment of course
and there will be Landscaping I know
there's no Landscaping on we've had the
rear come out he told us that there's
not enough Chase inside to run up for
the upstairs you can you're you're
allowed to actually take your condensate
line and dump it into the gutter did you
know that so if you if you can run it to
gutter up there then you don't have to
have this visible line on your house
we've done this before I would ask your
HVAC guy about running the condensate so
that it opens out onto the gutter and
just that way you don't have to run this
long pipe all the way down the house yes
to have I think he's talking about the
line set it up the liquid and suction oh
you're talking about the liquid's not
coming from inside the house this is the
condenser see this is the Minit
condensing running up which an insulated
pipe running up the outside of the house
are we teaching you guys
something no they're not sh they
not that's the evaporator they're is
inside bill that's the evaporator
they're showing on the ground the
evaporator is going inside on the wall
upstairs the condenser they're not
showing on the ground okay I I spent 16
years in the mechanical industrial world
what what what I I would recommend and I
actually did at my house is that there
is enough stud space to run your line
sets in the stud space inside inside you
can run it inside the walls that's what
we typically would see I think inside so
it's not shown on the outside of your
house this is there is enough space I
mean the max OD on two of those things I
mean you can squish it down but I mean
it's probably two and a quarter when you
have armor Flex on the one line so where
does that right now you can do it well
like Bill said you could you could do it
a couple ways you could get a condensate
pump from the inside you could pump it
somewhere right you can go up with it
um or you could dump it into a gutter so
it doesn't
run yeah this is the refrigerant line or
you could take or you could take the
condensate down inside the wall as well
and dum it into your basement floor
drain well floor drain is way on the
other side I'm just saying or or you
could pop it out real low down low and
and put a splash block on and get away
from your house low but you don't have a
pipe running up but it's perfectly the
way that that's the only way we've ever
seen it this is the kind you can do it
without the pipe showing on the outside
of the house 100% refrigerant I just
okay stuck one in my house okay so we're
we have two things I believe this is the
refrigerant line that's insulated that
that I have a problem with correct
visible I I would love to see that
inside the wall and through it's doable
it is you have some demo work to get
through here but you can do
it okay but my my suggestion is is plan
this accordingly so that either you can
build one larger deck later yeah if you
you don't have the funds now I
understand it wouldn't be ever a
condition here but you definitely don't
want this too tight uh I've had tight
back porches I had to rip railings off
because it was just always a pain to get
in out of the house and you're building
so much you might as well just go about
a foot more or two and sure it's not
that much more
expensive
okay
y yeah maybe the best drawings in the
Microsoft Word I've ever seen I'm not
kidding that's impressive
okay so uh there is was there a motion
did you start a motion no
we
you I'll make a motion to
approve
um for as in to go under you review with
the design
consultant um to the uh construction
drawing
and then those are to be details are if
I remember right they were going to be
brought back to the board as needed um
but it allowed you to move forward with
your with your project that's the
condition of the approval that's the
condition of the
approval as well as the front column not
being
enclosed I I think the front beam that's
there is a beam let the column be the
column don't make them think the same so
it work with the design consultant you
have plenty of options even keeping it
simple but one's a column one's a
beam but I would agree it's a
condition whenever you're ready Mr Glen
uh I will make the I will I a second
yeah findings and facts and conclusion
of law for
applics that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued for the
property located at 949 South
Roosevelt noting that Dormer and window
replacements and front
porch are compatible with the existing
architecture with the recommended
conditions the front post be changed out
and all other details as recommended in
this meeting be worked out the design
consultant in
conjunct guidelines and the final
detailed drawings be brought back to the
board any changes required for this
approval are subject to further review
and approval by the Architectural Review
Board that
correct any final comments on
that these findings a fact and agree yes
one question though my windows guy
we told we were going through all this
tonight so I can let him know tomorrow
he can place the order for the windows
he already
submitted yeah
so I always tell everybody else and now
I'm forgetting um so I received a window
pack a window application for this house
and I called to and said I think you
should just roll this in it's part of
this same thing
um I mean I don't have a problem with
that I just want to make sure we are
sure of the window sizes oh measured and
everything they're already measured so
the only two that are additional are the
ones that'll go into the second floor
second floor okay as long as they match
the biggest window that's the one that's
down yeah yeah those two in the addition
are 36 by 48 the ones down below well
the kitchen window is a little smaller
the one that's in the back bedroom is
about 54 53 inches something like that
well The Replacements are not a problem
I'm just for the for the record what are
The Replacements manufacturer and
sty proa proa the same ones that you
just saw for the other ones double hung
white vinyl double hung white vinyl
exterior G no grids no grids we're
showing GDs here I know you're okay NOS
final approval of windows by the design
consultant yeah let's the the drawings
show grids yeah the drawings show grids
why aren't we doing grids the drawings
show grids on the upper stash
yes what what was called out or what was
the window guy he does not have grids in
the
windows you do currently no they're not
they're that's pre-existing windows are
so that big window there there's no
curtain there that's the window right
now yeah but you're you're draw you're
drawing shows three Windows there with
two side lights that have actual muttons
or divides in them
it's going to be a quarter 50
quarter uh the two the quarters are
going to be casement the center window
front window the front can we go to that
elevation just so I
understand because front elevation we're
having to imagine these
things wait hold on let's just go to the
pictures really quick okay I just want
to see what's there what is that now
those are the old metal
they're old aluminum aluminum and they
have storm windows on no I want to see
the elevations that you modified in
word the front elevation that's the rear
yeah no I wanted to check to see what's
currently first there these these all
show you know six over
one uh six over one six over
one that's what we're approving yeah
tonight get those
can you go to the front elevation
please the doors even though they're
gonna be bigger there okay we'll make
sure it
is so what about that window that is
going to be um Cas the two3 yeah with
the casements two casements with a
center picture window plankers yeah
casement blankers yes and if we order
the wrong Windows we're going to make it
right that's what we want well based on
what we heard you wanted to put the
order in tomorrow so maybe you have time
I think we have to as a condition to
make sure that you are comfortable with
everything that's
happening um I don't have because that's
something that's you know obviously easy
to to manage and work with the
applicant so the windows have the grids
as in The Proposal yes
yep okay should we rise the findings of
fact then we can just add that do you
want to hear it well I mean the finding
facts were very generic it was to be and
she under and our design consultant
understands all it's in her list though
it's in her list FR cins should you're
comfortable with that if not I can
listen am I am comfortable with that do
you understand the revised findings
effect and agree can I have a roll call
please Mr
hire yes Miss Jones yes Miss pava yes
yes Mr Hall yes chairman Scott yes thank
you thank you and good job on the word
drawings you should submit that
somewhere for an
award okay moving on uh board is okay we
don't need a break everybody good I'm
just reconsidering buying the word
package now office you won't need you
don't need autocut and Revit he can do
he word uh application number bab 24-26
address 662 Vernon applicant is Ryan
brothers landscaping Pat Ryan owner is
Dale Rucker the applicant is Seeking a
recommendation to the board in zone of
zoning and a planning for certificate of
appropri for a carport with a garage
door can we have name and
address Dale Rucker 662 Vernon Road and
I am Michael McCoy on behalf of Ryan
brothers landscaping we swear in the
applicants while we're if you're both
going to speak could you both yeah do
you swear affirm the testimony you give
this evening will be the truth I do
thank
you
staff e
do we do we have the the revised yes
is that was okay here we
go yes yes yes so I agree with the like
stess going down the
alley um so we tried to modify a little
bit so if you could maybe go to another
picture from the alley side there you
go so my purpose for this is
my daughter's car has been hit twice on
Vernon Road my truck's been hit we had
my oldest daughter's car total uh my
mother-in-law's car has been
hit and originally I was just going to
go with brick pavers with some sort of
of gate but because it's not 12 foot
wide I had Arrow fence come out a couple
years ago and because it's not wide
enough they were talking about the I
don't know what you call them the
mechanisms that open up the gates it
just wouldn't leave enough space because
we have the gas meter on the outside of
the garage I can't do a slider so the
only other option I had was to come up
with some sort of a garage store so I
tried to apart from the first rendition
I tried to make it a little more
appealing um by coming I actually was
using the uh
Harvest Pizza
type little thing that comes down over
their bar to make it more appealing but
mostly for security because I I don't
want it open so if I
can't have it secured in some way then
we just won't do it because it opens
into our backyard which there's a four
foot fence in between us and our
neighbors and then a four foot fence
between them we've seen people in our
backyard jumping over the back gate um
the neighbors have had people in their
backyard were right on the corner right
behind Rino's Pizza so it's just mostly
for security and I couldn't find another
way to secure it other than this concept
so I'm open to
ideas and I think that looks much better
than like I actually didn't like the
stess of just all the white with the
white garage door and so I thought that
open it up and doesn't make it look
so I don't know what the word is
but so I think that looks good ready for
approval
uh I understand the the need for
security um it's just a little
architecturally strange to have a wall
barrier on one side and not fully
enclose it I assume you're going to beap
because likely you can't build up to the
property line and likely you need some
sort of five
foot uh setback for for um an apron to
pull into there various reasons um and
so it's hard for me to prove this I
wonder if a way to do this is to do the
carport but instead of a a walled
carport maybe there's an
overhead coiling gate type of thing that
would give you that privacy but still
keeps the openness of this I would also
ask that you possibly push it back I
don't know what the depth of this is um
in terms of like keep keeping a car
inside but uh even just pushing it back
off the alley a little bit um so that
it's not just flush with the exterior
wall um would be a
consideration
um it it it's just it's it's a strange
thing um to and I understand your
predicament I I really do um are you
considering in terms of safety are you
also considering doing something to the
fences that seems like people are also
having other access to your property in
in addition to the back
valy because you mentioned there four
foot fences and people are just hopping
them no no no I didn't mention but if if
there's no like for our purpose if
there's no security back there because
currently we have a a fence a six foot
high fence and if there's no security
back there that people could come in
they couldn't only get into our yard but
our neighbor's yard and their neighbor's
yard and crime has been a problem um
parking on the street especially since I
don't know if any of but since folk
Family Dental has moved
in parking is horrible Huntington people
used to park in the lot but I think
they've been told that they need to park
on the street now so parking on the
street right there because we're right
off Main Street is just it's horrible
and I mean you know we have three cars
in a golf cart and one car I store in
the wintertime I'd like not have to do
that
anymore it is just um I I I think for me
I don't think I can approve the 24 foot
depth um would you consider shortening
it to you know let's say 18 to 20 feet
um just that it wasn't so prominent
along Vernon or considered enclosing it
entirely and making it into a garage uh
which would be a little bit more
appropriate to having a garage door
there I think that's my
my driving down the alley seeing it it
just it just seems like a strange thing
mean I'm not opposed necessarily
to making a whole garage I just thought
the concept of having a carport would
be I know just a little bit better um
because it's not enclosed you know we've
been there 33
years
and decided we're going to stay there so
we're just trying to kind of improve it
so that we can continue to live
there I mean I open to suggestions but
as far as the garage door I just I don't
see any other way
to to make it secure because because
it's not wide enough for an inside gate
because of the gas meter and we can't
slide it down so I just I'm not
the the roll down thing kind of reminds
me of
like a convenience store in a bad
neighborhood
sure those are my
comments so you know I think we probably
going to hear similar things from all of
us just
about not being on board with doing a
garage door have you considered doing
just a flat parking space without cover
that is accessed I know we did a project
in German Village
that and as we know they're probably way
harder than we are but um because we
were not allowed to do a garage we were
able to do a flat spot and then
continued the privacy fence around that
locked from the inside so if privacy is
the primary AR concern and getting the
cars off of the street I wonder if
that's something we might consider
really not doing a structure at all but
giving yourself a flat parking spot and
then extending that fence and that's
what we originally going to do I was
going to have brick papers put in um but
then when I started like talking about a
gate you know it's again because it's
not wide enough I don't want to have to
get out of my car every time and open
the door and or open the gate and I
don't know much about the
electronic arms that open up but Arrow
fence said that they would stick out too
far and wouldn't allow
enough I'm what I'm actually suggesting
is a a fence that would
come like on the inside so you would
drive into a flat spot but the you would
just have a man door that would access
into your
backyard so not really enclosing the car
at all
I don't know if that makes
sense yeah I'm not quite following I'm
trying to solve a problem I guess that's
logistical uh you removing the roof and
the garage door and just putting a fence
around the spot yeah to the towards the
front of the car and having no structure
above it so it's just oh so you're
talking about putting a fence in the
backyard in the backyard yeah yeah yeah
I don't like that idea okay yeah and so
I guess I think
um I don't think I could get behind
doing the garage door within the cport
so I guess maybe that's something that
you guys should think about what you're
willing to sacrifice what are the most
important things to you because um yeah
in its current iteration I would say
probably not going to get my vote of
approval either yeah my my primary
concern is off street parking so our
cars don't continue to get hit and
security so
Mr
hire well
um I actually think it's kind of cool I
I I hate to say that but I I I actually
like it I mean I I don't I really don't
have a problem with a garage door being
in this location um if it was perforated
in other words is the material going to
be see-through like you're showing in
your in your rendering or you talking
about a solid material for the
for the door
itself I was your your renderings show
it's transparent well I would prefer
honestly if you can't really see through
but you can see
out because to me it feels more
like part of a garden structure if it
actually is see-through I was just
trying to think about something that
would be more aesthetically pleasing
than just a solid white AB absolutely
yeah but I and so I mean I could get
behind that as a recommendation to beap
um but I do agree with the comment about
pulling the ends of it in the big thing
that's going to help you with is the
roof structure and how it actually
intersects with the Gable of your roof
if you pull it in a foot at each end now
you just have a clean area to make that
roof die into that Southend Gable of the
garage
so you see what's happening there yeah
so if you just imagine those being
pulled in a foot a foot and a half at
each end you don't have that problem
anymore plus it offsets from this plain
old no window no nothing garage on the
Alley um but I understand what you're
dealing with here I mean I live on
grandon and we've got we've got parking
issues because of the dental office that
moved in at the corner now we're going
to have cohatch moving in and Catalina's
is going to be one block away I mean
this is part of urban living right and
so there has to be some compromises
along the way I mean when I come down
gron now there's so much there are so
many cars up by the dental office that
people forget to look coming out of the
alley your your alley continues on to my
street um and the other thing about
South Beckley that I really enjoy is
that people invent all kinds of
interesting things in their in their
backyards at the alley um
and as much as you know this may not
meet the zoning code um or that you
would require a variance there there
there are tons of alleyside things in
South Beckley that would require a
variance even if they didn't get one or
just built it um including some
incredible
playsets that that look like some you
know some Geral company came up with
these things they're bigger than the
house um they're all I mean not all over
but they're there there's really
interesting structures all over South
Beckley at the alley side so to me this
is this is worth a variance just because
you're solving a problem it's
interesting it kind of fits the
quirkiness of alleyside stuff in South
Bexley but that door even though you
know you're looking for protection I I
couldn't get behind it if it was a solid
door it would just feel like another
garage door and now you've got this
super long elevation that's got nothing
going on but to do that and inset it you
know so that it works I could get behind
that I could get behind a recommendation
so you're suggesting maybe scooting it
in like you had mentioned like four feet
I'm just trying to make sure that we
have enough space in there you'll have
plenty of space so if we scoot it in a
foot or so you you got in your drawing
you're showing 20 24 plenty yeah we have
plenty of room and since you're open at
your yard side you can pull your bumper
right up to that yard you'll have plenty
of room once you pull in there even if
you set it back a foot or 16 inches at
each end you're G to want that just from
the material transition right and the
masting is it's architecturally it wants
to pull in and not be flush on the
outside okay it'll it'll work better it
be easier to construct okay yeah yeah
and then the details for it you know I
would just work that out with a design
consultant but keep it simple but that
that door like the way you've got it
here that that's appealing to me
I know that it's not you know most of
the gar I changed my garage doors out so
that they didn't have light panels in
them anymore because people could see
into my garage you know and and they the
potential of them seeing you know a uh a
Huffy bike and wanting to steal it um
it's real in South Beckley you know
doesn't have to be a bian or a car uh uh
Carbondale or whatever they're called
canondale it could be just some Walmart
bike and they'll steal it so I get it
but here you just have a car you're not
going to be showing off anything else in
your garage I get it but at least it
would be protected and um even though
they could see it but I think that's a I
think it's I think it would be a cool
look and and a quirky thing for South
Beckley that's just my
opinion I I totally respect the other
opinions about this on the board um and
I you know would be interested to see
where this goes but aesthetically I I
don't I I I could see this could
actually have some potential
thank Mr
Hall so if you can go to the existing
photo of the back I think you got a
grading issue I don't know that's
been and I saw
that so right
here that looks to me to be about at
least a foot up from where the U the
elevation of the uh of the alley is um
and I think that goes back to if this is
going to
work the the the structure needs to be
shrunk so it needs to come there needs
it needs to be further off the alleys so
you can work off that grade and I'm not
even sure you can get it back far enough
to get that grade to work out to get a
car up you know in there so I think that
needs to be explored as well as
shrinking it as the um as was just a
discussed um I'm curious as to how it
abuts with you know the neighbor over
here and how that starts to interact and
work with each other um but I
think I could start you know I I'm I'm
on board with the quirkiness in the
South Bexley alleys um you know they
there's there there are things that you
sort of discover as you go down them and
it's not just the South Bexley that's
our allies they're they're kind of this
unique Nuance um but I think you know
this this has to work at the end of the
day and I I you know I'm not looking at
this and just I'm looking at this
grading issue and I'm like I'm not sure
they're gonna be able to resolve that I
think you need to get a survey done um
get some grading done and make sure that
can be resolved and then as Mr hire was
talking about maybe look at the details
and shrinking it pulling that door back
off the edge um and really looking at
the details in terms of how it connects
and everything I too would like the the
one rendering I saw with the garage door
looked like it was glass um nice idea
but maybe not the most practical idea
from your security perspective but is
there a way to um at least can it be
glass maybe just opaque um you know sort
of have it sort of you know blacked out
to something or Whited out if you want
to say it that way um so that's just you
I can get my head wrapped around it I
not just not with the way it's shown
here I I think it needs some massaging
and and and again I the grading issue
I'm afraid might just kill the whole
idea I'm not sure that can really get
get resolved in its own way I think the
garage door is going to become an issue
with the gr with the way it is now that
garage door having to come down you'd
have something shooting up almost
probably a 12 12 Ines or 18 inches right
at the door and a car is not going to be
able to you know to to handle that and
could I was thinking about that too and
if not you're digging down to and then
you're exposing Foundation yeah yeah so
it's a challenge
yeah chairman anything else Mr Hall
that's it that's all chairman Scott if I
may yes just one one note on that and
great catch we do that would be
considered an apron to the alley and we
do have standard drawings on um standard
Bexley aprons so that would be a place
to start and I can get you those if if
you need them but that would affect the
gr you know that detail so sorry can you
go to one of the rear renderings in the
alley that one's fine one
more yeah that's
good uh this is
weird right it's a weird thing
uh there's a lot of weird houses in
Bexley and that's why I love this
neighborhood uh and that's why I love
this concept uh first thinking about
this I was like Wow garage door on a
carport it's just really strange um but
I know this location I know the house I
know that the retail strip I mean it's
not just Main Street here this is the
back of retail which is not it is the
alley behind all of the retail buildings
so it's not a great spot of for like you
know it's not like pretty Main Street
it's you know you're on the service
alley so uh I get the need for uh having
security here uh because you do get a
lot of traffic and foot traffic that's
wandering back there because they don't
need you know they don't want to walk on
Main Street so you you are open to and
successible to uh higher traffic of
opportunity crimes of opportunity so uh
it is unique it is different uh to have
a garage door on a um on a carport uh
all the things that were said earlier I
think you have to pull this facade back
to get the roof intersections the
massing change I like that these
different materials I would question
what this really is uh it can't be like
wood or like a t11 siding it needs to be
something special that's really durable
because alleys get beat up my
um one of my neighbors put on like LP
smart side Cedar Shake yeah so and
that's that's a that's a fiberous
material uh it's a cementitious kind of
it's not truly cementitious but uh
there's many products and and and you
you can dive into that and and because I
think it's not a very big square footage
and the fact that you're looking at some
kind of unique color and making it a
little bit more dressed up I think is
critically important um dumbing that
down or even when you had the version
with all siding was not was not an
acceptable option and honestly I hate
the sighting when we had the garage
built it was supposed to be brick but we
couldn't afford it so we went with
sighting well and it is what it is so
you know you're not here to reclad your
entire garage with brick or anything
else but but I think these want to be
different so I think this wants to be
dressed up and the quality that you're
showing in this rendering I think
shouldn't be lessened even though you're
going to maybe change materials or try
to figure out what those really are um
and I agree that this wants to be
translucent or at least one way uh I
like the view that you're can look out
and opens up that space I wonder when
there's not a car in here what might
happen in this little outdoor living
room uh and when it's not a garage uh
could be you know you could find
yourself a little sofa and a little TV I
don't know Mr
R never know you know so you know
garages can be man caves this might be
an extension of that man cave I don't
know yeah you're giving me ideas now but
I think that's okay and I think that
makes this a very unique space and we've
seen many garages get converted into
like these outdoor like these living
rooms and throughout Bexley and I think
this is you know a zoning issue that's a
zoning you know but as a design if if it
meets the kind of architectural
requirements of pulling itself in and
Transitions and quality of materials I I
could fully support this project uh I
think I think this roof as a shingle is
not going to work you're going to
probably need to look at a metal roof uh
I think as a as a membrane roof at that
slope you're not going to want you're
not gonna want to see it your neighbors
certainly won't want to see it so I
unfortunately think that's gonna have to
be a standing seam metal roof or
something in that c category uh but
that'll also play into the quality of
what you're doing and it's gonna be
really important um but I I it's weird I
totally agree with Mr I'm sorry about if
I keep hitting in the eye with the l
totally understand and and I'm concerned
with your grading I think it's 18 or 20
inches of grade change there and I think
you have a major problem of botting the
out if you're pulling a car in there
unless it's a one of those new Broncos
that are you know 36 inches off the
ground uh so I think that has to get
resolved with and maybe that's pushing
this back even further a little bit more
so you can slope up but you still have
some concern on the exposing that corner
of the buildings Foundation into that
freeze freeze zone so I think those are
some details that really need to be
looked at but overall I think it's it's
Unique it's quirky and it's it's
appropriate for your location in the
city in South beex thank you I I would
get behind pushing it back and pushing
it back but also maybe just wrapping
that one corner there maybe maybe
there's you know a
thicker condition that you know so it's
not just this thin piece of wall but it
actually CHS and then you know how that
continues on and how it sits with your
neighbor's fence is something to to
really think through um but yeah I think
it really needs to get push off and and
make an edge like a actual corner and
not just a flat facade I'd be okay with
that so we've done a lot of design
discussion
and but there's not a solution so what
we could do is just ask to have it moved
move to Bap with remand back here for
final design without a positive or
negative because the options is yeah we
don't have a design to actually support
given real obstacles like this the grade
change and some desires that the board
would like to
see um which it's starting to make sense
to me too but that's a significant
variance that they're going to be
looking at so I think it's really
important that we send it first to be
zap and my recommend my recommendation
is that you don't have a positive or
negative that you just move it to
Bap asking for it to come back for final
with the condition that it' be remanded
back suggest to the board which is on
the staff report as one of the options I
I would like to make that motion with
with that uh
condition as a recommendation to
beap no to move it to Bap move it to
move it to Bap the condition comes back
to us for final
review so moved I have a second well
yeah have a second second
Jones do we need findings here before we
do that I don't think so I don't think
so either and you don't need to agree to
the findings because you're just gonna
move on so what's gonna happen is we're
gonna vote and if it sounds like it
might be fine you're gonna go to Bap
they'll say yay or nay and if they say
yes but you're going to come back to us
to work out the details and at that
point you'll have enough time to kind of
dive into some of these grading issues
and work maybe on updating the the
presentation I don't think so I think
just okay is that good can we have a
rooll yeah I don't think there's facts
and findings I think just not a
recommendation to move it to Visa you
got a lot of kind of design advice like
we could have just done that at the
beginning but I think it was great that
you had that design advice so I would I
would I would even um go ahead and try
to get as much of that Dawn as you can
before Bap which is only two weeks but
really only one week so I can't take it
past the one week um even if it's a
little bit just to show like the major
moves like pushing it back right
um okay maybe so I was say because the
great call by um Mr Hall but I'm
concerned about the great as well with
the with our with our we do have an
apron requirement so it has to be graded
at a certain you know depth and width
and all that kind of stuff okay so just
look at that but we're not we're not
approving anything tonight we're just
forwarding no I know but that that would
be can they even move forward with the
project if if you got to go get that
grade all the way back how far does that
take we'll see that's in a way for them
to work out with right you guys
yep okay um not our tonight you're not
doing a certificate of appropriateness
you're recommending to beap no we're
just moving it moving it to be out
you're not we're not we're not
recommending it or not then I don't need
any findings and facts you just make
them we had a motion we have a motion on
a second sorry I'm behind here it's okay
um M Jones we're gonna pause we're good
okay we're gonna move forward yes Mr
H yes Mr Hall yes Miss Bova yes chairman
Scott
yes good luck AB bza thank you thank you
we doing okay everybody all
right my tablet died but I have it sorry
it's okay I have it we have two left no
three because Brenda's other one Brenda
is still here all right two two so we're
gonna do number 10 uh EAP
2429 to 251 to 2511 East Main Street
applicant is Christine Farley owners CRV
main cassingham LLC the applicant is
Seeking a recommendation to the board of
zoning and planning of certificate
certificate of appropriateness or
changes to the exterior of the front of
the
building can we have your name and
address please for anybody that's gonna
be speaking Christine Harley we swear in
yeah please you swear or affirm the
testimony you gave this evening will be
the truth I do and I live at
631 Front Street Mar Ohio great so
can we have uh report are you gonna
speak
also yeah you should tell me your name
and your address just in case
yeah yes Tony King and I'm at
114 Williamson Road in Grano
Ohio okay yeah so we're I'm here in
Jenny's here on behalf of capital let's
hold on one second let's have staff
report first and then s yeah okay okay
um Let me give a quick staff report and
then I'll hand it off to you um this
application is um a a recommendation to
Bap it really is because it's on the
Main Street Corridor and its front
facade changes um it will go under it's
under the purview of of Bap um and Bap
will like would have likely remanded it
to us as a condition to look at the
design so what Matt and I suggested is
that they come here first
um for a recommendation or for some
design critique and hopefully we can get
them in a better position for B app and
they agreed and so that's why they're
here now um they're I'm glad you brought
a material board because I I I I have a
lot of questions and we discuss some of
them on the phone but some of the
renderings are a little confusing to me
um the black brick um replacing the
panels some of the panels that are
showing kind of um vertical thick
sighting um and I think when we talked
about it there was some confusion about
whether that's existing I drove it today
it is not they're just they're panels
they're equal panels all over um I was
concerned about and I'm gonna I'm not
going to do too much I'm going to give
it to the board um but I was concerned
about the paint the painting of the
black brick which you said is actually
not gonna happen no I think that when I
have a feeling that when he was playing
around with
his okay you know this is just a an oops
because it's not like that on the other
side okay if anything it's probably this
flight right here with the with the J
John's how that comes down really my
goal for today is for the board to give
feedback on what they would would
recommend um changing of what you have
proposed here um so that when we take it
to beap you have a better shot of
potentially getting it approved with any
changes this board may suggest and then
saving yourself another month okay
because I know you've been at this for a
while yeah okay that's really my staff
report so what we're looking at is these
three building really these one two
three four five storefronts in between
the two brick um Pier the two brick
walls we're not looking at Jimmy Johns
and we're not looking at the building
past that does that make sense to
everybody um
jimmmy Jimmy John is not part of this
yeah we we have that to oh you do have
Jimmy John it is more structured like
four separate because we've got these
two
twinning okay so so it's all four of
these properties
yes and I went and took a bunch of
pictures too that I put in here I'm sure
the board members have seen them um just
driving by so you can have you can refer
back to them at any time
um okay you can go
ahead
any speak on what we're trying to do
here sure okay so um we've got this
building over here where our property
stops and it's kind of a white so we
sort of wanted to blend in with that as
well that's a different property owner
but the Jimmy John's we've got a lot of
rot like underneath of the awning it's
bad shape we be taking that down we
wanted to paint all of that in a
Benjamin MO was that white forget what
it's called I I think it's in my my
notes that I sent in the collar but
Nao h no not Navajo um it's Benjamin
Moore why can't remember the name I I I
think I put it all on my notes though
that I in your application yeah okay so
it it's it's a nice white but it's not
like bright you know it's a soft white
Chantell lace that's what it is and so
really that's kind of a cream now and
it's due for painting so we would paint
it in the Chantell and then trim it out
in the black and on the side there's
some detail where brick comes down and
and we would fancy that up the next
space is our new office um that's
251 um so the signage and again this was
a
rendering we have to have white letters
from one it here so we have to go
through a whole thing with signs
but this is really kind of what we're
looking
for this is dark this kind of Moody and
then next is a nail salon and it's kind
of twinning with the um
Verizon there's a lot of rot there so we
be replacing with
cedar all the brick it won't be touched
if it's red brick now it will stay red
brick none of that will change just the
wood where we are replacing with cedar
painting in the chanelli and then also
Benjamin Moore they're they're black and
then you've got the two other buildings
that are matching um that's the Great
Clips and then we have the Beckley
Hospitality I believe it's called The
Lion those are twinning and they'll be
alike do you have a rendering of that is
that this is that these two this is the
last spaces um so do we have a rendering
of is this where the L The Lion and the
the gr Clips is here lion here and the
lion is new so there's a what's
happening at the storefront and the
systems at at can you go down a little
bit please so what's happening here so
they have there is a lot of rot there so
there exting sorry existing rot now I
mean they just moved in they just opened
well we wanted to fix it up before they
opened I just want to make sure want to
make sure unfortunately I feel bad for
them so we thought about doing like the
board and Baton down below just to give
it a little bit of different look um but
we're we're open to changes and then
also the the onw how it comes out we
wanted to take out the uh beadboard and
put like a cedar in there and then do a
stain on that kind of refresh that look
it's it's all in like an olive green
now but we're we're hoping to beautify
it give it a nice presence and you know
our tenants I'm I'm sure they would love
to see some changes and any option to
push the whole building back like 10
feet
all driven through that parking
lot okay that was a joke by the way I'm
not making that a
condition
yeah um trying to think what else we
wanted to do
here might be different the side of
Jimmy John's we were gonna change that
up a little bit too you'll you'll see
how the brick comes down there's lattice
there there's so much shade you can't
get anything to grow there there I think
at one time there was Mattis on
the U lattice that goes up the side the
building we're just going to remove it
and then for some details we'll paint
the side I think if didn't go down like
one more see the side of Jimmy
John's so that would sit on the
cassingham and Main there we just want
to give a little bit more
design
okay uh this is not a uh there's no
standing here so we don't need public
comment uh so I'll open up to the board
and I won't call on you if you have a
comment please feel free to join
M
um well congratulations on doing some
pick up pickups you know I'm really
grateful that that's happening I know
that during covid you know when um P
picadeli you know had to leave and it
was very
sad um I would like to point out and I'm
really happy with what the city's done
you know with the little protective wall
so the kids can walk down it and not be
in the road and all that a lot of
improvements here which is great and I'm
glad you have that new
tenant
um I think one thing we forget about
these spaces is that the
windows and the lighting is what really
drives these buildings the CLE not so
much um but when we had that antique
shop I I think it was at the very Corner
the purple the purple one um yeah the
other right so for me when that was open
and then I think it became like an a
designer's place uh maybe fabric
designer I can't remember but even
though it was purple think they did some
schooling there too or tutoring yeah
that's right yeah but what I really
liked about that particular the way that
they had done it over those years was
that it was about the business and you
know kind of showing off what was inside
which I thought was great um and Jimmy
John's obviously is Jimmy John's you can
see through you can see all the tile you
can see everybody act interacting at the
counter now with the lion there it's
kind of the same thing so the windows to
me are what gives it all the life and
character especially when I drive by in
the evening and I and if there's stuff
going on it's really wonderful to see um
so I I just can't get behind the black
and white scheme I really can't well so
I understand what you're saying about
the windows
because I try to give suggestions to the
tenants you know there's a nail salon
and different things and sometimes there
are decorations I don't always agree
with um but when you have something like
a T-Mobile or Verizon usually they have
like neon lighting or something like
that um the the line I'm not sure how
they're going to light that up I know
that um our new office Joanie has bought
lighting and you know it'll be really
pretty but it's really what's happening
on the
inside not the outside when it comes to
the windows
unfortunately which is except for the
padil space that is now our space it
does have a little bit of different has
those those top Windows there um I get
it it's a challenge working with tenants
and getting it to be beautiful and all
that but I even so I mean the lights
that you're adding to the sofits and
trying to you know those are existing
those are the round ones yeah those are
existing they're on the wood I think the
reason they're not GNA like pop is
because they need to be painted again
the one the twins next to us the nail
salon and no not those lights the ones
that that you're showing on the white
but I would like to change those out are
you talking about under the awnings yeah
yeah I would like to change this out to
like a
yeah yeah yeah um with the cedar that
look that it's warm that'd be nice but
the black and white I could you go to
something that was like like um like a
medium bronze like something that was a
medium bronze kind of warm and bronzy um
just so that it was because I think that
that
would I think the look that I was going
for is sort of like that modern
um Urban not the home like the houses
where they do like The Farmhouse where
it's white and all that and I was kind
of grabbing from that a little bit and I
thought the cedar would help warm it up
and then I'm using the brick as another
collar and then the wood as another
collar and then in the back when we redo
our patio we were gonna take this stain
and do that on the fencing yeah so
whether you're in the front or the back
it just it just all goes together and of
course there's going to be their sign
there and that's going to make a
difference but I believe the letters all
have to be in white so it would be
cohesive that way I I do see what you're
saying and I'm open to all of your
suggestions that you have well I I mean
I I can point you to probably three
different articles in different papers
that are talking about how that black
and white look is going out I I I agree
but I there are some
places yeah there I mean there's a
business that's right around the corner
from us uh in Grand View
and they this is kind of a model off of
that too and the other thing about
weight is the collar yeah but the see
what we did what we help I if you know
Christina's Garden down the street uh
with the Anthony Thomas candy store it's
just a simple brick building a beckly
you know sort of what we'll call a
commercial fabric building right and
they just infilled with bronze and the
signage you know pops the lights are
like the the bend down you know lights
that they're in bronze color and it just
looks unified and really
inviting um plus the white is is going
to get dirty you know you're going to
see cobwebs you're going to see all
kinds of you know Footprints and dirt
and all this stuff it just doesn't it's
not going to be it's not going to give
you the longevity and I think that the
style is going to you know the the
complete contrast to black and white is
something that um I don't think it's G
to have a lot of life to it um in terms
of you know unifying this whole thing
the kle I get it it's white I wouldn't
have wanted that to be
white Jimmy John's you know you do
something in an off-white and I get it
that's Jimmy John's and we've always
kind of read it that way feel about the
Chantell on Jimmy John's because I do
think that corner looks sharp yeah if
you I like it on that all white and
Jimmy Johns has a kind of black and
white look but the white is dominant
right the white is dominant and the
black is just thin details here though
the black is the black and the white you
know I'm not sure what the window frames
are are they really going to be white
like that or because you're not
replacing the windows themselves no
we're not I I think it was trimmed out
but I just I just think the white is
going to be um with Jimmy Johns you're
painting The Brick and that's clean able
but when you get like down low with
these hearty panels or whatever they're
going to be um you know having those be
white especially at that level I mean
Jimmy John's also has plantings I think
around the brick in places we do have
plantings along along there and they're
just they're not doing well yeah So
eventually we may have to do something
with that we thought about maybe some
planners and some up lighting you know
so you really see it when you're coming
up the street there and Jimmy John's has
brick that's under these windows correct
on the front yeah it's already painted
so I mean I think that's fine that's a
standalone and the building next to it
creates a contrast which is great yeah I
think the first two I agree it's after
that right it's kind of stuck and I
would like them to look a little bit
different so that
tanic feels like they're a little
special their space you know it's well
but I don't know what I'd do with the
colors I mean I know what I know what
they would do in the Virgin Island
um and I know what they would do in you
know Scandinavia where each one would
have its own like really interesting
color I mean why not why not I mean I'm
not saying you have to go super loud and
make it circusy but you know but I also
kind of like how it's it's uniform but
there is nothing uniform on this
building there really isn't it's it's
just the collars kind of keep it
together but I'm open to suggestions I
mean I mean maybe you do one that's like
a bronze and then the next one is
something else but I don't know I I just
and kind of backing into this the bar
very much wanted the black and white the
bar as wanted black and white so maybe
they get the black and white but don't
make that all the way down because
they're going to change that out in a
year they're gonna open up the New York
Times and it's going to say the black
and white look is out and you shouldn't
be doing it and they're going to want to
change it I've already seen articles
like that so and plus the dirt you know
they're not going to live with that for
very long and they're going to want to
paint that white in the lower part very
quickly I also worry about the t11
sighing look of that I think that should
be more of a wng cot type of trim out I
mean this is a traditional storefront
retail storefront type of articulation
we had the recess doors uh and in
Tradition I these like it or not I mean
it's a traditional brick building retail
building and you have this you know this
three over two with the recess tour so
it's you know having these here I I
think to me looks one in white is going
to get dirty really quickly uh and two I
think it I don't think it'll last I
think it'll look Beed up quick quickly
I'd rather just see that trimmed out
Simply with you know a smooth panel
because it's it's a little bit more
traditional there I think let the color
be the color I also agree that it's not
black black with a white window frame is
not the way to go I'd rather see all
that white paint all of it white let the
white and then let the the signage you
know stick out or the graphics in the
window or the colors inside let that be
um you know the color then maybe this
one's all dark so these are two dark
brown this one's white with maybe some
black highlights or something but it's
that can then differentiate them it
doesn't have to be a mixture of white
and black all the way down burnt orange
OK burn Orange let's go Roman here let's
let's do Italy at one time adding some
like wood and you know do one in wood do
one in Wood yeah yeah do another one in
uh burnt red or burnt orange or
something have fun I mean this this
whole right now what it is is it's
boring right the whole thing is is
boring from one end to the to the to the
next in terms of the coloration but
there's massing changes so you have this
these two little maner roofs that are
coming down over the center so you have
the differentiation in the massing if
you did that in color too you'd have
you'd have very individualized very
special St it's just an idea it is just
I don't mind the the black with the
white around it I think have an issue
with the white with a black trim around
the windows it just reminds me of of you
know you wanted to have a black black
right now sorry it's black right now no
no not the Verizon if you go back up to
the rendering like the ver the Verizon
and the and it's like a flat black it's
it's it's the scoot to the that one okay
so the one um to the left that we kind
of half see half don't see it just
reminds me of like a white vinyl window
with black trim and I think that's what
I can't get past it and especially with
the the treatment at the bottom so I
feel like if you fix that I wouldn't
mind the black and white so much at the
Horizon thing area um and maybe you
don't do a crisp black maybe it's
a like a off black bronze a bronze yeah
which is like a yeah just War something
else it's a little bit warmer but if you
do that then you'll definitely get four
distinct buildings as opposed to two
black and white mixed
similar buildings Iron Mountain is a
good Benjamin Moore Iron Mountain is a
nice used that color
yeah I mean this this feels very this
this white uh with with a little bit of
maybe bronzy color or whatever around
the wind that feels very British to me
like you're going down a High Street in
in England and you would see this
balance of color and then you'd have you
know colorful displays and the windows
and all that that that to me feels okay
but maybe it's just this this area that
just doesn't just doesn't work and so
maybe consider doing a different you
could just do all dark I don't that
would be lovely whole thing being really
rich and let the wood warmth of above
the canopies is really nice to addition
which would still contrast with this
because this is all white this would be
all bronze yes and then you have this
being all bronze and that being all
white so you're just you're doing it's
like Al alter alternating as you go
Downs talking or you you just have fun
with it and each Bay you can do
something different why not you know all
the murals that we're painting on the
sides of buildings going down Bexley I
mean this whole Main Street is going to
be filled with color guess I was being
conservative I thought maybe that's what
everyone would
like I don't think I really don't think
you're that far off I don't think you're
that far off I think I think you you've
come with an idea I think we're just
trying we're trying to force it into a
little bit more of a segmented I just
don't know what to do with those two
last ones like I'm fine with the flat
panel
St SAR to what we have down do something
different just with the bar black here
Stone there or dark well you know think
of England and you go to these high
streets where there's a pub and you get
to the pub and it's the uh it's the
angry lion or whatever right I mean
here's just a lion I didn't mean to make
that connotation honestly The Angry Lamb
let's call it the Angry Lamb and they'll
use like a British racing green or they
use a dark blue you know I mean if this
is if this is a special place the lion
why not I hope so I hope St because you
know you'll you'll change something for
someone and then it doesn't work for
them and then you're stuck with the
remnants of right what they've done and
they've done a lot in there would you
consider showing them some like pictures
of things like what we're talking about
to get their input like if it was
they've never asked did they ask you
they like the dark I know it's dark
inside and they were going to paint
themselves and then we let them know
that we were coming here and that you
know we would get
approval a lot of what we're talking
about exists on High Street in Short
North so if you just sort of went up and
drove up short North you're going to see
different variations of different things
with a similar storefront similar score
fronts have been built out this is you
know this is nothing unique I mean we're
talking about England and all this stuff
it's very traditional and it's approach
and there's there there's really no you
know right answer other than you know
the variation in the color I love the
idea of the you know using the blues I
think there is a there's one I forget
the name of the restaurant there's one
restaurant on Short North that actually
is that but there is the green RW yeah
that that's a it's beautiful it's a
really nice
color yeah yeah which would be okay
right you could do this side and and for
something for the lion and then this
doing it own there's Grays there's
yellows
there's you know um what's uh the Pearl
look at the Pearl that has a very
traditional storefront too um marcelus I
think is is all one color I'm trying to
go off memory here but I I think that
would inform you You' probably be able
to pick up a couple different schemes
off of that and then you don't have to
hit it exactly but um you know you would
get some
ideas is this a be B app
right where you made a suggestion of a
color and I didn't hear it yeah it was
Benjamin more Iron Mountain okay if you
want to go with more of like a
midtone okay um it's not black but we
use it a lot when we're like doing like
a faux steel look where it would have
some more is it like iron work it's a
little lighter it has more
Brown so in in for the to keep things
moving along a little bit sounds like
you've got a lot of feedback from uson
this is a recommendation of
appropriateness for the changes to Bap I
don't think we're can recommend this ex
this existing proposal so is this
something that they can they can work
with
you we would love to see it again but
that's I don't want to are we delaying
them a month then or are they gonna
try I I'm just making sure we understand
this one our thought process was they
have to go to Bap you guys are before
Bap most likely Bap was going to remain
back to you because Bap I'm I'm on that
one and it's not a color committee
um full disclosure they're not I run
that I help that meeting um so we this
is sort of like a two- week jump for
them so they get your feedback they go
to Bap and then they would have had to
come back to you in a month anyway so
now we're just kind of jump the gun to
give them the feedback from here so to
help them so we're not making we're not
taking a vote
and you don't need to tonight it would
be we can't it's a table because we're
not it's a bab application we can't
table it that makna we're not making a
motion moving it on to Bap are we making
a motion you you you could similar to
the previous one making to it if you're
ready to make that and it's ready then
you're not then I I would I would just
say like the last one you move it to B
app and then they'll it back you
recommend
knowing that knowing that it's coming
back to us yeah I then I make the motion
that we um move this to Bap without a
recommendation great me ask you this so
I have to go to that meeting I'm already
signed up for it and that's on the
26 okay and I there's nothing I could
start anyway even on anything that you
do approve of like our office or Jimmy
John's those are the ones that are going
to take the time the rest of them the
repairs they'll go quickly but starting
the
stone okay it is possible that when you
go to you get go ahead and start
Jimmy yeah get that started and then
come back to us with the colors changes
okay okay if you're G to go with some
really okay Bap holds the authority to
make changes to the Main Street Main
Street District they Bap holds that
Authority but often times theyand it
back to the Architectural Review Board
to or design the design consultant also
is in Bap and she will recap this
conversation where we don't have a
problem with you changing it right we
have no objection to the changes it's
just the color working out the colors
yeah and she'll be able to communicate
it that to them so when they send it
back they know what they're what they're
approving or not approving based on what
they their jurisdiction is and then
knowing that it might come back to us
yeah I'll change up some of the
renderings and give some more call
suggestions and things like that so we
have a motion do we have a
second
P thank you Christina uh there's no
finding a fact and but we are voting so
we have role please Miss
Jones yes Mr H yes Mr Hall yes Miss
panasa yes chairman Scott yes good luck
at Bap and hopefully we'll see you back
next month thank you
uh Randa has been a long one it's
9:47 ches tonight need need three
minutes please oh yeah go
ahead
yep I've got a takeout order in seven
minutes
but I
gota
e
e e
okay I don't need to reconvene other
than hey we're back Branda thank you uh
thanks for being patient for all of the
long evening but we'll get through yours
quickly uh we're going to back up to the
first application on the
agenda so let me back that
up okay this is under old business
application bap 24192
1 North Stanwood applicant is Brenda
Parker owners Kelly and Christopher rup
the applicant is Seeking a
recommendation to beap for a certificate
of appropriateness for a partial first
floor Edition and second floor Edition
above existing Breezeway an attached
garage with variance request from sidey
setbacks the application was tabled in
at the July 2024 ARB meeting can we uh
get your name and address Brenda Parker
9:30 Northwest Boulevard and can we
swear in the applicant please you swear
or affirm the testimony you give this
evening will be the truth I do thank you
thank you can we have staff
report um yes this application
as
last
consensus overwhelming consensus with
the
Anda has
done
few so we're gonna start
with let's start with one because that's
where we were before with some
modifications
Yep this is thee that
like um just wanted
to
iove all these make it like
oh shoot I didn't have my microphone on
again um they're very well done but
they're not they're not representative
of like the actual scale of the building
so some of these when we say they're
going to be
huge expanses they're really just not um
so that's my commentary but I'm going to
go ahead and give it to you Brenda to
talk through scheme one okay so this
project I kind of treated like a like
math class and sty your work so um after
the last um meeting I went and did some
iterations and shared them with the
client and just to kind of like see all
the possibilities um this is where we
were before
um previously we kind of had like the
Craftsman style awning over the garage
door and the roof Heights weren't quite
as differentiated so I dropped the
middle hyphen piece a little bit lower
and especially on the back and then we
we changed they really wanted to we
carried that band board around if you
remember us talking about that instead
of doing that awning but the owners
really wanted some sort of embellishment
still above the grage door so we are
looking at kind of a trellis that works
into that band board um with just a
simple bracket there to support
that um and so really on the back
elevation is where dropping that roof
kind of gives it a little bit more of a
hyphen then then it was just kind of
plain and the roof kind of like melded
together all across the
three components
so that's kind of where we are for
scheme one so we'll see I don't know if
you know if you if you guys think like
oh you know this isn't there you know
this is we're not GNA prove this then we
can kind of go you know to the next
scheme which is
2A which is your favorite this one I
think is the simplest to build and I
think it's just the simplest the other
ones get really fussy um you know trying
to get like a more of a story a half
appearance and and then when I was
looking back at them today there's
always something wrong with them like
one of them the Gable doesn't end right
because it's cut off with the other
element and so I feel like this this one
is the is the simplest
solution I
agree okay uh anyone in the audience
with standing seeing
none uh I would like to turn it over to
the board uh who would like to go first
this
time Miss pava thank you um first of all
I I went through all the schemes earlier
and um that's a really fun exercise to
have one floor plan and see how many
different massings you can come up with
um and after going through and digesting
all of them I kept going back to this
one which is exactly why for the same
reasons you mentioned um it's simpler it
just it's not fussy um and I I I do like
the fact that you dropped the back over
here I wasn't here at the previous
meeting so you know just gathering
information now but just dropping that
elevation of the fascia down to that top
of that window makes it for me and so I
would I'd be okay and I'd be able to get
behind
us okay simple Mrs
Jones uh I feel similarly I think how
you've dropped and kind of
differentiated the different roof lines
really helps especially you know keeping
in mind what Karen said the scale of the
existing
house is much smaller than the
renderings would make it appear it's
that like optical illusion thing that we
run into with 3D modeling a lot so I
think a lot of the elements that you've
added are really Charming I like the
trellis o over the garage I think that's
that would be a nice element
um
and yeah overall I'm in I'm in favor I
think it's a nice a nice
change thank you Mr
Hall my comments are very consistent
with those so I'm not going to explain I
think you've done a good job with this
this middle piece serving as a
transition piece and allowing the other
two to to sort of interlock with it I
too like the trellis I think what I I'm
wondering is one side has a bracket this
came up in a prior one and nobody liked
my suggestion I remember this but one
side has a bracket the other side
doesn't um I remember remember that
somebody thought that was quirky or
something so it's all good I get it um
but maybe there should be a bracket on
both sides of the garage door um um but
yeah I think it's I think it's a very
nice solution I you know for for what
you're up against I think all the other
schemes are just way too fussy there's
too many things there to to get into and
resolve it so I do like the Simplicity
of this a lot um but that's all that's
all I
have thank you Mr
higher
dang I liked
option I liked option three really yeah
I really did everybody's least favorite
yeah I just think that the consistency
of the wall Dormer that the going all
the way across um and tying these all
these things together to me it just um
it's not a play on step step step
anymore um but it becomes kind of one
volume right and I love I love wal
Dormers anyway but if you're going to go
with option one which it sounds like
everybody's on board for that I would
like a couple
clarifications uh difference between
your model views and your
uh drawings so your model view shows two
columns in the center part but I don't
think it should be because to me the
model view competes with your front
entry way where you have two sets of
peers and all of a sudden I'm thinking
that that should be the front
entry so you need to go to one column at
the outer Corner which is a very Bexley
thing um the trellis I agree with Mr
Hall that you should have two brackets
for that okay
nice win nice win um and then I I don't
know what's happening with this uh you
know Juliet Balcony thing on the end of
that garage second floor but is the
intention to actually build a Juliet
Balcony because the model view just
shows like an attached metal Grill oh no
it is just kind of like the 4 in
projection of the the rail going across
but it will have a little projected
floor area no you just open the doors
and that kind of gives gives you kind of
the fresh
air I mean I don't I don't I just think
those look
cheap um and then the the the windows at
the back your your model view shows that
the four Windows over the master bed
which is I'm assuming that's what's
happening there why you have four ganged
windows up high or something else
happening I don't know what it is yeah
it's actually in the closet and I think
I just took from the front elevation and
carried it back but then made them
transom fine and they they look aligned
with the single one next to it in the
model view but in your architecture
they're up higher I think they should be
aligned like your model view okay I can
do that I also don't think that you need
that faux corner board dividing the
center part with this I don't think you
need to make that I think if you take
that out um the roof line and the fact
that there's a different Eve condition
is all you need there okay plus you have
the door and there's a clear isolated
symmetry you know with that window and
the door on the
back um which means that the window
that's over in the garage you could put
that anywhere you want it doesn't need
to be centered or
anything this one here no this one so
what we're talking about is that one's
actually existing I believe this is yeah
okay fine that that doesn't play any
role here but these should be aligned
with this window gotcha I'd take out
this cornerboard yep right here no need
to have that um you get the one bracket
in here this is correct with just one
column okay um what else and then the
this
thing you know I thought about doing
that on my house it was going to be my
um my daughter's room and we W up just
mixing the whole thing because we didn't
want it to look fake if you're going to
have a balcony do a balcony even if it's
just a 4in projection that's just trim
work you need just project a little
coral and have a little trim work there
and let the railing sit on top of that
okay you're not actually building a
balcony but but don't have it open
underneath okay let me take that to them
you know I'll say you can either do this
or you can do this and then so we'll
either switch it to Windows right if
they don't want to kind of do the floor
component or we'll do the little but
it's not a floor it's a balcony it's
just trim okay yeah you're just building
a little what looks like a support
underneath this rail got got it okay
because the doors open in right or they
they're not sliders right no they open
it but if you were if you're going to
use scheme one then those would be my
suggestions go
one I have I have I agre all of that I
have one question about the belts
so there's an existing belt on the
siding right and then you pick up the
column and the beam supporting the the
mass above which is appropriate and then
you pick the belt up in the trellis with
I think it's nice uh and then it
continues along the
back uh or the side sorry under the faux
Juliet and then it comes here and then
stops uh I'm curious why it's here and
in the back if this was a mass I could
see it here as being a beam similar to
to this but I don't understand the
reasoning for that and I get you're
trying to proportion the facade but you
have this big facade you didn't do it
there so I'm just curious what your
thinking was yeah I think it was just
our discussion last time about talking
about wrapping that element around but
it might have just been it might have
just been that I had the Craftsman
awning that wasn't you know which was
interrupting that I like it when it's
like a piece of trim here it's the front
porch Dimension it's this beam that
you're picking up I like it that it's a
trellis
now I'm okay with that I just want to
make sure that it's it's purposeful um
you know I I this is a little it's the
same material so I question why that's
even there looks like an old front porch
went all the way across they got rid of
it and then just P patched it with a
piece of trim I don't know um so I'm
just curious uh yeah but I'm okay with
I'm okay with just taking it back to
sighting on the side and rear just
having it
you need something though honestly if
you take that away it's It Too Tall yeah
it's gonna change the proportions I
think of all the windows and I I
actually don't mind it okay yeah it just
it helps a lot of projects we would ask
there to be a belt because of that
elevation or a different material once
it passes the the door on the south
elevation it it's going to wrap in like
18 inches so it is going to have a a
dying point at least and that's always
then purposeful right if you continue it
on arbitrarily and then it stops
arbitrary then you definitely have it
die into a purposeful change of mass I
don't have any problem I think I think
actually all of the schemes have Merit
and I can understand your exploration in
the design of how you remast it I also
didn't mind three though I do like one
better personally um I think it just
it's simpler to the because the scale of
the home is smaller than it it uh
portrays in the renderings and the even
the the elevations so uh I think it's
you know it's going to be a little
quirky uh but in that that sense we like
that in this so far that's like our our
main theme here and I think that's cool
so um yeah I think this is I can support
this
okay uh sounds like we're in agreement
um do we have uh any of those comments
uh conditions by the
board yeah I'd like to make a
motion that the application be approved
with the following conditions that a
bracket be added to the left side of the
garage to support the
trus that the porch to the left of the
garage have only an outside edge
Pier that the band uh continue as shown
in scheme one
that the Juliet porch have trim work to
support the
railing and that and yes and that the
window alignment at the second floor of
the garage rear align with the single
window to its
right and
that there's one more
he mentioned the Juliet you
got
she's sorry so she's going to read the
findings okay and that the
um that the vertical trim
board on the
rear um Mid wall be
eliminated left at the door left of the
door
yes that one that
one that
is as
drwn
M
yeah um the porch should only
have on the outside edge
y
Julet
window
line
verm
mid all with scheme one being approved
with those conditions yes
was that officially the finding in fact
then okay you understand and agree with
these findings in fact yes we have a
second we have a second to the motion
sorry second
Hall okay okay let's have Ro Mr hire yes
Mr Hall yes Miss pava yes Miss Jones yes
chairman Scott
yes next
last Bap
24-30 249 South cassingham applicant is
Brenda Parker owner is
Steve libe the applicant is Seeking a
recommendation of to the board of zoning
and planning for certificate of
appropriateness for a new two car garage
with second floor space to replace
existing detached
garage the applicant is sworn
in uh can we have staff report
please this is a tricky one this is a
recommendation to Bap um I drove this
alley back and forth today and there is
not a single garage that is not a
one-story garage let alone
um a twostory that needs a height
variance so I'm a little concerned that
it's out of scale for
that
neighborhood um having said that if you
choose to if beap does choose to Grant
the variance for the
height um the design critique that I
would offer is that the Gable that the
Dormer is a little strange
sticking with the Corky but Bill I like
that
Corky looking to see if there's quirky
precedent
but really hoping to find a two-story
garage in that alley for your sake but
well but that's the to be a first
somewhere right I mean it's not the only
alley in Bexley so no but I'm just
saying for that neighborhood and and I'm
not we're not here to judge the variance
no how far how far out of the variance
are they is she um it's
22 feet three inch and 18 feet is our oh
okay all right uh let's the floor is
yours uh anything you want to add to
that amazing report
um sorry it's getting
late yeah
so if anyone's ever worked on these
garages they're like scientific problems
like like the roof pitch to like your
floor structure and getting the height
but getting as much usable space as you
can
um so with this one you know I think
we're trying
to the steeper pitch obviously gives you
more space and it's a small garage they
didn't want to take up too much of their
backyard area so it's a small footprint
and to have a usable they wanted a
bathroom up there so to have a usable
recck room in a bathroom
space you know they has to be a certain
amount of square
footage um so anyway that's the
conundrum with that that's kicking up
the height so the 1212 pitch and you
know getting that structure in there is
so it is kind of what it is the Dormer
so when I looked at the house
photos when you look at some of the
sides it kind of has
this Dormer feel to it the way that the
gables are are kind of Twisted opposite
SE each other um so I kind of picked
that up and again this obviously in the
small triangular areas of that Gable are
not usable so this would be just fine to
take it to a traditional Gable you know
and and not do the full kind of
triangle so that's kind of where I am
thank you very much uh I will turn it
over to the board members um Mr Hall
would you like to start
yeah I agree when I first saw this the
thing that jumped out at me was was the
Dormer
um
and I'm almost wondering if it should be
more of a more of a shed type D Dormer
versus a Gable with Windows going all
the way across and figuring out the
appropriate places for it to line up
with below and so forth I think that
would help quite frankly with the scale
of it yeah um
other than that I don't know if you know
the height is a BAP issue so I don't
really know if I have an issue with that
and I agree with you these things are
really it's a it's a challenge when
you're trying to figure out how to best
um frame all this so that you maximize
your space on the second level but but
that's I would tell you to continue to
just study and work on the Dormer itself
it does look a
little you
know I'm sure somebody's going to love
it because they're quirky but yeah this
it's it's the same thing so with this
client you know I did I did like eight
different iterations of what the the
garage could be like and there was a you
know a couple shed dorms because that's
kind of my traditional um garage style
and they they really liked this they
liked this yeah they like this Gable
so you know quite frankly it could be
just bringing the the base of it out so
it's there's not so much roof along the
bottom of it yeah when I when I looked
at it again today I was like yeah the
proportions don't seem right yeah I mean
maybe if that even dropped another two
or so feet so that came down a little
bit more then maybe it starts to are are
you trying to control the upper square
footage by having these so far in I
isn't that the I don't know I this is
this is my first Garage in Bexley since
they got very specific with the
requirements I think it's two3
yeah there's a certain distance that it
has to be set
back like I said it's scientific to
begin with and then bexley's made it
even more scientific two story R yeah
know I get it because that pulling that
face out would make that definitely a
two
story I was gonna suggest you take steam
three yeah exactly
yeah gives you a twot
okay anything else that's all my
comments okay thank you let's jump over
to Mrs
Jones um I also don't really obviously
have a problem with the height I think
again that's not under our perview
tonight um I think the rest of the
shape and design of the garage is nice
um I probably have similar thoughts to
Mr Hall on
exactly how that Dormer is expressed
um I think yeah potentially rethinking
that could be a nice
um a nice way to round out the design
but that's all I
have thank
you Mrs
Bosa well we we might have some
clarification
on whether or not the
footprint can be done um
inset from the exterior wall um and so
maybe look at that some more I'm not
sure if that's um according to 12
5215 maximum finished accessory
structure attic floor area to base floor
plate ratio for this lot size would be
50% yeah we're requesting a variance to
increase the second floor space Oh yeah
above oh that's right yeah there's uh
it's the height variant the area
variant see
what so I would say if if the Gable
approach is what your clients are really
pushing for um you know consider
clipping it and making it into a a more
of a and I'm not sure how you would use
those triangles those end little
triangles of the
actual on the interior so you know just
make maybe scaling that down from the
exterior Point might be easier um uh I
also think the drive through option is
kind of a cool idea um and I understand
the site restraints for it so I think
it's a clever solution to be able to use
your driveway but also Park two cars and
a very tight um maneuver
um otherwise I I don't really have other
comments um other than just rethink the
the shape of the dorm itself the West
and East
Dormers thank you Mr
H that's a tough one um I if this was an
isolated design you know and maybe the
um you know Central Bexley you know the
bigger Lots I would I this would be
great I actually don't mind the the the
Dormer that you have except I would have
done a slow a lower sloped roof you know
for its width and maybe even had like a
little walk out or something that's what
I was just thinking when he was talking
about kind of getting rid of some of
that space and then you'd have these two
little Gable ends that shot down from
there and that's a classic Exley look
you know tutor style but what I can't
get my head around is the height you
know I just I just walked the alleys and
there is literally nothing this size um
until you get to pow and then there's
this corner lot that has this giant TW
story we probably approved it here um
Gamel Gamel roof with double garage door
thing um and then that's but that's it
and I'm trying to think of a way to get
the scale down
like you know the I'm assuming the the
the wide garage door is what faces the
alley
um so but it's it's that's not the way
you're going to experience it you're
going to be driving down the alley and
you're going to be looking at it at at
an angle and you're going to see this
thing this huge Gable end going up and
going
down some of the things we've done in
the past with houses that we felt were
too large for the neighborhood was we
had them actually cut those roof lines
off on the Gable end so that it didn't
um so so that this the elevation didn't
rise up so high you know you know you
simply create a hip roof that's on the
end so that so that the elevation isn't
so much in reality it helps but it's not
I mean you still perceive this giant
roof that house on Drexel we did that at
part of our rec our condition was that
they clip those Gable ends to make the
house look smaller and um the reality is
is that you still perceive the the ridge
line so as much as we we like that
solution here we've liked it
I just I just don't know I mean you're
asking for so many variances here yeah
the two I think I I think it's three is
it because the eve should be at nine
feet of the first floor I I think your
ceiling's Too Tall you owner my thought
on one of my iterations I brought that
down or no I think because I I have it
as I mean I think this might be another
CA we've done this a lot tonight but it
might be another case of like I don't
know how much more we want to read you
know give design Solutions in last no no
no I just I I thought the requirement
was 10 feet if it's 9 ft then I can look
it are you okay with eight foot ceilings
in the first foot garage see everybody
wants the eight foot garage door height
because they have their big SUVs they
got to get in there yep and so it's you
you've got a N9 foot and then you have
to have room for the roll up on the door
right right so right it's a you have to
be 9 feet above that slab so that kind
of drives that height you can do you can
do a 2x8 ceiling joist if they're spaced
more frequently and if you have steel if
we do inter intermediate beams yeah I
wouldn't need as thick of a floor
structure which we might have to do in
order to kind of bring I think you're
looking at every inch you can to kind of
pull this down closer and closer I think
if you're this is almost a four foot
variant I think that's that's a hard
pill to swallow I I'm not speaking for
them but if you're a foot off then I
think there's something arguable there
so the conundrum again is okay so I've
got my 1212 pitch if I flatten that out
right so so I bring it down my EES go up
you know what I mean so now in order to
be at a N9
foot you know well I think well you also
have a 10- foot internal bearing we we
wrote the ordinance that asse it was an
impossible design problem the challenge
is you're doing all this work and really
gaining just a little bit of space if
you went with a yeah the shed armor
would be would be easier you're gaining
a ton more square footage of usable
space without getting any square footage
in your allowable code so can we make
like three foot overhang so our Eve is
you know nine feet I mean that meets the
oh but then it went past the also but
it's at the wall are you calculating
your floor Square it's the nine feet at
the wall a height of four feet or is it
all the way to where the the roof is
hitting the floor I use the five feet
five feet so your square footage is your
you're still a variance of above 50%
even at the five foot Mark yeah I I'm
counting three
variances an area yeah well I think I'll
need to go back to modifi I think I need
to kind
of well you can request a table we can't
with a recommendation to beap we cannot
we can either move it they're they're
going to want to take it and hear it
straight from Bea but we can table it at
app and come back with a different
design right well I I think that you're
not going to get a you should really
yeah but they I can't say this but the
applicant if she wants could table this
so that she could work this out and
possibly eliminate one of the variances
you know to go to
Bap would I have to come back here first
or could I just submit to to Bap with
the no you can do it that way we can
move you to we could go ahead and move
this application to Bap because why
should we continue to do a design review
when you have three
variances um I'm very comfortable with
that we've I think this will be the
third one tonight it's not an usual
thing but I think this is another one
that merits that and you're able to
reduce those variances before you get it
through Bap you might have a better
chance or one's only a foot instead of
four or five I think they're just gonna
wan
to I understand that predicament like a
lot of they want to see what they say
a lot of my designers have their their
clients want them to go to the board to
ask for it and if that's the case and in
if that is the situation in this
particular case I would suggest we move
it to beap yeah and then you have an
answer from that board whether or not
the VAR answers are acceptable yeah for
for your sake because if your client
wants you to push it then you
should okay it would be it would be no
difference than if they she got rejected
and then started all over again with you
guys no I'm not I'm not wor no I'm just
saying like that logically right that
it's either coming back to you from Bap
if they do Grant variances or I'm sorry
I don't want to speak for you but no we
value your
opinion very much I would like I'm just
saying either way you know what I'm
saying so yeah then I would I would like
to make a
motion that the
board uh vote to move move this
application to Bap without a
recommendation that was I said
recommendation twice the motion I'll
revise that the motion is to for the
board to move this um application to Bap
without a recommendation correct do I
have a
second second
off there's no finding so we'll have
rooll Mr oh sorry Mr H
yes yes yes yes chair yes thank you
thank you good
luck by Brenda not hi thanks for staying
I have a okay more any open discussion
items for the board I think my
microphone didn't get turned on the last
time everyone voted yes Elizabeth for
minutes um so doodle poll I had great
responses thank you very much we will be
doing the next one October 23rd I
believe yes I believe that's the date
I'll send out an email tomorrow but what
I wanted to let you know is that um I'm
also going to open up the first part of
that to Bap and to the historic
preservation committee because we're
going to have a gentleman from pres
Precision slate and tile tile the owner
Trevor fiser is going to come in and
show us samples of slate and what's what
so I'm going to tell them I want a 30
minute limit so we'll still have 30
minutes then to discuss probably won't
work but I'll try it um I think that's
what I have maybe I didn't maybe I only
had one update that's it thank you thank
you any other discussions from the
board adjourned