e
e e
here
here here
here um we have approval of minutes did
everyone get a chance to look at the
meeting minutes from the last two months
we have two months to
approve so the first one would be the uh
March I don't remember the date of that
I did have some corrections for the
April one the revision has been posted
already thank you so is there a board
member that will make a motion to
approve the March meeting minutes uh so
moved
higher second
Scott KY can you call the
RO
yes yes
yes yes have them closed the door um can
somebody please close the door back
there we're
hearing thank you so much uh the next
would be the April meeting minutes is
there did everyone get a chance to read
those and is there someone that would
make a motion to
approve motion to approve
Hall second
higher
yes yes
yes
yes this is the time for public comment
if there's someone in the audience that
wants to speak about something that is
not on the agenda tonight um please
raise your hand
okay seeing nothing that there is we
will go to Old
business um I just want to say we have a
couple uh cases coming back before us
and on our old business category tonight
that have been before us um previously
and so we just want to make a
point uh for these applicants that are
coming back and the neighbors that have
spoke at the previous meetings that we
will um we will not be taking um those
same comments again if you're going to
come up and speak to us tonight you need
to be speaking about something different
than what you did before all of those
comments have been put into the public
record and they are in the um audio tape
so the board members that are here
tonight that were not here last month
they have had a chance to go back and
listen to those recordings and and read
the meeting minutes so they do know um
what you have said and um and it is part
of the public record so the goal here is
to not repeat testimony that we've done
in other
meetings um and then we have also have
another request um from our legal is
that we do not have discussions between
board members and audience members after
the meeting has adjourned all of our
conversations need to be part of the
public record so when the meeting is
done we need to stop the conversations
and save it till the next meeting
okay yeah that okay so we have some
items also that we are going to vote on
that um for consent that we have gone
through as a um as a group and um these
are the applications that we have
approved um and with a few minor changes
but these applications are the ones that
we are will approve in one vote the
first one is application number ARB 24-2
the address is 148 South Ardmore the
applicant is Seth Hamp and the owner is
Seth Hamp application number arb2 24- 8
the address is 505 North Drexel the
applicant is Brenda Parker the owner is
John and Abby
Mali the next application number ARB
24-13 the address is 176 South Stanwood
the applicant is Amy lowerhouse the
owner is Eden Sheila
strob application number arb2 24-16 the
address is 2557 East Broad the applicant
is Stephanie Hayward and the owner is
Kelly uh jubert gerbert
last application number Bap 24-12 the
address is 319 South Columbia the
applicant is Amy lowerhouse and the
owner Debbie and Mike
Nikolai is there anyone in the audience
that came to speak about these
applications
tonight okay seeing no comments then um
we just I need a board member to make a
motion to um approve those
items motion to approve Hall
second
Scott Mr Hall yes Mr H yes Mr Scott yes
Adam Tony
yes okay our first application then in
Old business is application number Bap
23-23 the address is 2200 East Main
Street the applicant is Ryan Pearson and
the owner is Continental real estate
companies the applicant is seeking
design review and a recommendation to
the board of zoning and planning for a
certificate of appropriateness for the
Redevelopment of the vacant Trinity
Lutheran apartment structures at 2160
2188 and 2186 East Main Street this
application was approved with conditions
at the December 18th 2024 Board of
zoning and planning special meeting a
condition of approval was the return of
the applicant to the ARB to review
changes that address the ARB conditions
for the building design so we will be
talking about those conditions in this
meeting we will not be going back in
rehashing um old
items okay um the applicant was before
um just by way of background the to
review the conditions that um were Bap
conditions based on the recommendations
of ARB uh the applicant was before us in
January I think it was January 31st I
don't really recall my head exact date
but to review these conditions at the
time um they did not have all the
conditions to review but they did meet
several of that many of them um
uh uh ARB one of the conditions which
I'm going to put up on board hold
on this is the overall um three-part
approval lengthy from Bap but I'm going
focus on the ARB conditions these are
these are those um at the ARB meeting
ARB 2 and ARB 4 through 7 had been
addressed with consensus at the special
meeting that they had been satisfied and
the applicant was to return to go over
airb one and airb 3 really was kind of
it's it was addressed by tree and public
gardens commissions so um we're really
here to look at arb1 that's the
outstanding item and that's the only
outstanding item which is that the
applicant return to ARB with material
boards and samples so today we have I'm
going to give it give the floor to you
Jason um and you can be sworn in and I
have the packet up on the um digitally
up on the board and I think you have
some physical samples as well correct
and I'm G to give it to you to present
the materials please state your name
Jason Hawk you somly swear from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do thank you
uh thank you for having us back um you
know we are here to only focus on the
number one condition which is the
materials and colors or material boards
and samples um our team has been
diligently working for the last what
four months now uh and going through a
process we've been actively
communicating with the staff and Karen
trying to talk through issues and
concerns and making sure uh we're
meeting what the of the board was and
their recommendations from uh the last
meeting of January um I believe that
what you're going to see tonight meets
those requests um I think ph7 has done a
great job of of identifying materials
colors you you'll see some samples of
that I mean what ultimately I I do want
to emphasize that you know
ar8 uh which is the outdoor dining
adjustments for tenants we will be back
again and of course there's a a third
condition there outside that where any
architectural changes which we don't
anticipate will happen but we know we
will be back again for those as well so
just reinforcing that you know our our
goal tonight is to discuss the material
samples um and making sure we're hitting
there ultimately you know I don't want
to take the wind out of Brad sales here
but you know we have dark Windows which
I know is a big thing I think we have uh
uh you know some of the masonry
components that have been discussed
before and I think when you start
looking at the details that Brad
presents it'll it'll Hit The Sweet Spot
that you guys have been really open for
so with that I'll turn it over to Brad
and let him get into the
details please state your name uh Brad
Pauling do somly swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do thank you all
right well uh welcome uh thanks for
having us back um I like to call this
the the show Intel portion I have a box
of stuff here um we certainly can pass
it around a little and um we've produced
a digital board that's part of this
packet as well that I think can serve as
a little bit of the guide to some of the
selections that we have that um we may
not have a physical sample for um but we
have things like colors things uh like
the bricks we actually have sample
boards for those things and so I like to
pass those around but um I think big
picture if we wanted to start with just
the sample board the material board on
the screen it's like the fifth page in
this one I think we can talk through the
various materials holistically and then
we can go back and and talk about how
they're being applied and and and the
pieces and parts so um yeah I mean if
you just Jason if you want to help pass
out that'd be great um we've identified
two different bricks that we've been
showing uh on this project a darker
color a red brick color um and
Associated um mortar colors for those um
and we can if you want to leave them out
on the we can kind of assemble them
together here in a second um and so
we're still maintaining two two styles
of brick um we believe that we're
looking at a modular size for this
project um and so we're still working
through price point but those two are
the the selections that we currently
working with anything that were to
change based on material supply or
availability or anything this would be
our this is our our guide um other
materials on the project that we've
really looked at um I'll I'll check off
the easy ones first um railings we are
are identifying aluminum railings double
top uh Style with vertical pickets um we
do have metal louvers on this project uh
so we've we're looking at drainable
metal louvers for for a portion where we
have our Mech one of the things that's
been going on behind the scenes is a lot
of detail on how some of the systems of
this building can be uh developed and
we've identified a spot where we do have
some metal louvers on the side uh we are
looking at aluminum stor front uh black
anodized black color um both typical 2
and a half and 2inch sight line and 4
and a half inch depth um we do not
Envision any curtain wall on this
project we think everything's going to
be done through storefront and then uh
Windows uh We've identified uh a
manufacturer for those at at this time
and we're working through budgeting on
that but we believe that our Windows uh
vinyl black um mostly single hung um
there are a few locations on the Upper
Floor where we may do some mold
combinations but our our board here does
start to show what we think the typical
sizes of maybe 90% of those windows on
the project are and so we've identified
for you guys what kind of how how that
all comes together um the other couple
pieces that are just sort of more
specialized we've identified um some
some Canam mold trim uh so that is
specialty trim at uh cornices and
Specialties trim at the top of some of
the uh facades where we're using that as
a a way to help build out the system um
combination to cementitious material or
other things
and so we're starting to identify the
actual profiles the Heights and then U
we can talk about color in a second um
we do have our canopy we've identified
an AC an aluminum composite material ACM
um for the canopy so we're starting to
show we we we we've identified a
material for that and we've identified a
color that I can I can pass around here
in a second so I think those are the
sort of the the broader things um a lot
of our attention a lot of our Focus has
been in how do we identify the materials
for the sighting products and so we've
really done a lot of study on what type
of cementitious product or what type of
alternatives to cementitious product
that we could bring to this project and
I think that we're most excited about
two of those and I think that um we're
hoping that uh you guys are as excited
as we are so I will let me pass out this
one paint scheme for siding colors or
I'm sorry paint scheme for siding colors
or paint scheme for um free finished
product as we as we find and and pull
those together so we have um if you go
to let's go back to an elevation and
I'll try to walk through where these
sighting products are used I think
everything else is um go to an elevation
uh that's right after that
page after before uh it should be right
after the this yes the next page uh
maybe one
more this is the front of the building
um at uh actual architectural scale um
we've really been diving into pieces and
parts as we've gotten to a larger scale
so we understand how some of the brick
detailing can occur how how our levels
are really coming together how things
are changing across Main Street from a a
facad and elevation as we as we
understand the grade um and so if you
zoom out just a little bit for me so I
can get the the little bit of the bigger
picture the there's there's basically
three sighting products that are
prevalent on the main facade and we have
identified a um a cementitious product
that is at the top of the brick so the
first uh the first band above the
corners of the red brick line that is a
face fasten semen titious panel um with
a canal trim on top painted out to match
and we see that in this medium
color we see that in a medium in this
medium gray French gray color um and
then above it is a um is an we're
actually reviewing an alternate product
that's a darker material for that and
we've studied that in both semen tious
product and other things but we've
actually identified a um a metal
sighting vertical panel system um that
is a random Plank and so I actually have
samples of it here um kind Fold It
Up see I
right so this this is a this is a metal
system that comes in random it's called
random plank but there's 8 inch 4 inch 2
inch um there's actually a six inch in
there as well um and so our thought that
what we would like to do is we'd like to
get away from the cementitious material
at the roof at the sort of top level
that's sort of locking everything
together and um we think that this just
changes the style of the building just a
a little little bit that we've really
been struggling with what that top level
is and um we we just were really
intrigued by this and we priced it out
and and really we're actually quite
excited about this so we wanted to pass
this
along but the combination of that
against some of the darker gray
materials and then the combination to
the red brick we we really really like
and then the last sort of sighting
material that you see on the facade that
is um the piece that's the L-shaped form
that c of uh that signifies the front
door the front entry um we actually are
seeing that in another version of a
metal sighting rather than a
cementitious um we we really didn't want
to get into the face fasten system for
that where it's down against the ground
and it's a little more touchy Fey so we
actually have a uh it's a 6inch exposure
Ure metal sighting um we think that it's
got a little more texture than just
normal
material so we we just we we feel like
there's a little opportunity there for
us to have something that's uh a little
more refined than than just seen titious
sighting at the front so um it gives us
better opportunity I think as well for
signage and some other stuff that we
know we're going to that's going to be
integral to uh the conversation on all
that um so combine that with black
windows and black storefront um those
typ of systems I think are are similar
to what we were kind of talking about
before um don't know if I missed
anything from a material standpoint but
that's the big picture of color and we
can maybe we talk for a little bit we
can come back to to any any other do you
have colors for the brick I'm sorry do
you have grout colors or M colors for
the brick
with the red we're still thinking just
normal natural
but thank
you questions comments before I move on
to anything else were these documents
made available I didn't see them on our
agenda okay and that's pretty typical
for people to bring them but um yeah I
mean I was G I was going to print
AB are do any board members have
questions about these products before we
move
on is this a um application for public
uh comment
no well I think he wants to continue oh
oh oh sorry I can come back Ian that's
fine if it's if you want me to finish up
and then that's fine we can do that um
then I will point out I think the other
thing we've been studying a lot is is
some of the brick detailing along the
Main Street facad and the opportunities
along that so if you if we go back to
that front elevation that we were on a
minute oh that's a f if you want to back
up one maybe you can zoom in on that
just a little bit um so we've identified
some
some opportunities in the facade of that
dark brick where we think is the most
prevalent for the most uh because it's
on Main Street um we've introduced some
peers we've got some paneling that's
occurring between window systems and
then we're using some coring to get it
at like a there's an a a b and a C Level
within the facade of the brick um and so
using a series of corales to get that
get that to those peers to re to to to
to read and then Soldier coursing maybe
robot coursing under um the window sill
and then looking at some ornamental uh
Soldier course like dentling under that
top row and we think there's an
opportunity in there for um like a
almost like a cast iron Medallion at the
at the at the underneath of that first
piece of the window something where it's
not um a flag in the middle of the uh
the spand roll between the window
systems again we're not sure where some
of the signage may or may not go on this
yet and so we we didn't want to take
over every one of those spandrel pieces
with uh too much detailing we thought it
was more appropriate to keep it sort of
tight to the windows um we do have the
opportunity for some some recesses on
some of the larger vertical peers and so
if you kind of back out of that
elevation just a little bit we're
framing the the dark brick uh Mass with
a peer on each end that has the
opportunity for some recesses and then
we we were starting to show light
um we need to continue the the
discussion on exterior lighting but we
think that the peers obviously o off us
that opportunity um clearly the corners
is where I would start and then we can
kind of work around from there the other
image that looks at the next there's two
slides maybe one slide past yeah and
then on the opposite corner we think
that there is this portion of the
building where we have the red where the
red brick MK kind of ties together again
where we go up to the two story we think
it's got a rusticated base um we think
that base piece is stepped out a little
and then we're just at the moment we're
looking at series of of recessed uh you
just recess rollock or recess uh
coursing for to create some banding as
we work through that corner um and we
think that that's the opportunity that
we have on that front facade so um yeah
that's that's the stuff we've been
working on it's been a lot of other
things happening behind the scenes but
um from a material standpoint we we felt
confident enough in kind of where we
were we wanted to get your guys opinion
so that's it from is there anyone in the
audience that wants to speak about this
application I just have a question can
you come forward and be sworn
in please state your name Kathy schik
you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes thank
you I just
wonder if they're using real bricks or
like the half
brick in this it's it's full that full
full dep veneer real veneer no it's it's
standard brick okay yeah it's not thin
brick where it's glued on for the entire
building
okay thank
you anyone else
lauia Higgins
222 Brien over there um is that really
blue can I you in please oh yeah yeah
please raise your right hand you Sly
swear from the testimony you're about to
give this evening
is yes thank
you um what I'm seeing with that first
story looks like an overhang there is
that really blue and did I really see
something that was purple or does this
just represent something some other
color really really blue and it's really
met
okay well I I guess it's not so garish
as the picture would would look so I I
was just wondering thank
you morning jie blank the Alexander
please raise your right hand you saw me
swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
yes thank you I'm just asking a question
really of the board
um I really like the red Rick concept
because I feel that really fits nicely
into the surrounding area and I think
that work that's a little more brownish
I mean of the choices I don't I don't
mean the various colors but of the
colors he passed out I just wanted to
State my opinion you know I think the
red would be better than that other
color well and you understand that both
colors are being used yeah but like for
this main part yes didn't you give two
choices for that no there's not a choice
he's basically saying that the main
building is the red brick and then these
little portions are the darker brick
okay so this so there weren't two TR I
mean this is another section but the
main part facing out here yes okay I
just y
yeah is there anyone
else I seeing none is there a board
member that would like to go first
um thank you I um I think this this I
like the color um selections and
everything and the direction it's going
in I um I actually like the the Brick
quite a bit um I like the idea of the
the Smoky brick um versus and you know
typical iron spot which is what
everybody is kind of the trend right now
so I think that's a nice look um I don't
I have a lot of questions about where
you're using metal and the types of
metal you're using um it doesn't seem
like your elevations line up with your
renderings necessarily but maybe I
missed something and then you had on
your finish board you had some um I
guess they were like prefabricated ephas
cornices and there was some cast stone
um on there where you using the the the
cast stone coping you I'm not seeing
that on your renderings okay um
so if you can kind of maybe walk back
through that a little bit I think that
would be
helpful sorry no yeah happy too um let's
go to an elevation I think it's easier
to see
there go one one more sheet please and
this is this is fine if you just want to
Center up and zoom out a little so where
is this elevation so this is this is a
portion of I mean obviously the south
facing Main Street Main Street elevation
correct okay so your rendering does not
look like this right
now as far as I can tell I on your
rendering I'm not seeing the horizontal
metal that's going up and sort of
wrapping around yeah this piece here
yeah am I no it's it's in there I don't
know that in the rendering the the
Nuance of the of the panel is is
apparent it's more of a color tone in
the rendering um I think that is the
style of that image um what we have for
this is is metal 6inch exposure metal
sighing in um a color that is much more
similar to the light tone you see on
this paint here so very light a very
light color and then the cast stone that
you were indicating so we have
corbelling at the top line here the
fourth floor we have our we have some
coring and then we have a cast stone
element that caps it across there so
that band there is is the cast stone we
have on the project and then face
fastened Cen tious sighting here and
then this this piece that's depicted
with the vertical lines is the the
random lay metal vertical sighting and
so we haven't identified the randomness
yet because we haven't figured out what
that exactly what that pattern is going
to look like but the material choice is
is the one I passed
out yeah I like the idea the the random
panel I think that brings a nice uh
little bit of a contemporary feel to to
the building so I you know and it it
kind of sort of counterbalances a lot of
the traditionalism in it so I think
that's that's pretty strong so um I
think in general I I like all this I
think I I would like to see better you
know renderings to pitting it though I'm
having a hard time just picking it up
off the off the 2D elevations but I
think you're on the right track I
there's nothing in here that's jumping
out at me that's off base
sure Mr
hire uh I have a few comments
um one one of them is I'm disappointed
that my suggestion or my request that we
look at options for the brick color was
not followed through we had mentioned
you know the buff color brick that was
this has been used in Bexley for years
uh there was public comment requesting
that and I only have two bricks so we
studied it we looked at several
combinations and with our client we
decided that we this was still our
Preferred Choice to present to you so we
have studied it but it was something
that um we we felt this was still the
strongest uh the strongest pallet of
materials but you could have showed
us an
option even though you wanted to make
that choice well I think again with our
client we we felt like this was the
pallette we wanted to
present um the other thing that I um I
think is a problem is the pitted of this
red brick um this brick comes all the
way down to grade and I think it's
dangerous for the children in particular
and people who are going to accidentally
hit this this needs to be either a wire
cut brick or a vour brick or something
that has more uh straight definition to
it so it's safer also all these details
that you're showing in your brick work
for Soldier courses and rocks and
corales and all that all that definition
is going to disappear with all the the
kind of pitted of this brick and your
joints are going to look terrible
because the mortar when you put it in
won't be able to be Rak straight to
reveal all those details so I think I
think the red brick uh is the wrong kind
of facing I'm not saying it's the wrong
color
but I think it's completely the wrong
facing for an urban structure like this
the the the other brick doesn't look
like it has that pitted this to it I I
can see divots here and there but for
the most part it's it's got a structured
uh structured corners but I I would I
would seriously consider looking at
options that are not as um you know
rusticated you know that that kind of
divoted um I I just find it too rough
okay especially for that definition um
this the second thing is
uh you you changed the or you you you
modified or up upgraded the details for
the the darker brick at the um two
floors you know for the for the retail
and
restaurant and I think it's going in the
the wrong direction in terms of
proportion because this is only a
two-story element and so so having the
uh the Double height peers actually
takes away from its human proportion you
know getting things down and they're
actually taller than the peers that are
on the red brick portion next to it so
it's it's kind of fighting against the
proportions of those red brick peers
which I like very much I think that the
rustication is nice but then you get to
the the you know the gray brick and all
of a sudden we have these peers that
just shoot up with no nothing to break
break them up so I think it's going in
the wrong direction for that particular
peer detail I think you need at least to
break it um so that it comes back to
human squ scale for those two floors
that it's only going up it just feels
very uh like too Monumental and and like
it wants to support another 10 floors
above it because it has these huge peers
but the peers are doing nothing for you
you know by not being broken in some way
so I I think that's just a flip you know
just you could break it up to bring it
more to human scale by defining the
first floor with the brick defining the
second floor with the brick and not
having these peers just shoot up through
without any
break I
also uh and I could probably nitpick all
day right because I'm just seeing this
for the first time and I'll see things
probably as I'm talking but the
proportions of the windows on the second
floor of that two-story element I don't
understand the horizontal Break um
between the windows it's fat um it
divides up what would look like a good
proportion window if they weren't there
you just to have two windows side by
side um the windows down on the first
floor now see you're getting into more
human scale with breaking it up more but
up up on the second floor is there a
different way that you could break that
up because the windows next to it at the
corner have a very different divide
you've moved the horizontal mulon down
you've got it divided into three
um and then the windows on the other
side so I just feel like those are the
ones because if you look at all the rest
of the windows they kind of have that
proportion you know that more vertical
proportion but that just looks odd to me
it doesn't look like it fits so it's
just something to look at in that
regard um but my big thing really is
that I was hoping to see other brick
options as we had requested um I'm sorry
that was um mixed and um I think the the
red brick is too rough to get that kind
of definition that you're looking for
with all these details I mean the the
arena district is filled with beautiful
brick Hing like what you're showing here
but it's not using a brick that's that
rough it's all got more definition to it
so that you can see those joints and see
all those details for rocks and soldiers
and corales and all that I think that's
very important on this project in
particular I am I I feel like I need to
uh talk about these details because
people are going to be right there on it
it's public um and I've seen some
other as we've talked about before here
we've seen some other buildings that
have been developed um on Lane Avenue
and other places where that detailing at
the street level is just not good and as
a pedestrian and a civilian you know to
walk through those buildings I feel like
I'm being you know disrespected by how
sloppy they are so we don't want that to
happen here in Bexley those are my
comments Mr
Scott
um well first I want to say uh I
appreciate the
material
quality um on a project of this scale uh
we would you know know we've Tau um
material over previous meetings but and
we know that there was going to be brick
so that's kind of
and I totally agree with Mr H's comments
um but metal panels in different shapes
obviously minimizing some of the cement
board paneling um and metal canopies uh
I I actually really appreciate it those
are not cheap items on the scale of this
building um I know we're not talking
about the the all four sides here we're
just focusing on this Main Street facade
so I'd like to maybe hear a little bit
more about what's happening around the
sides in the north um but I do
appreciate I mean these these these
products are typically done in focal
points touch points where you're up
you're up elevating the material cost uh
to get the biggest bang for the buck and
not necessarily putting what I'm
guessing is one of your more expensive
material Types on the Upper Floor uh and
in more modern pattern so I really do
appreciate that I think that's uh that
needs to be said because that that could
easily have been a vertical you know
cement board siding that you were trying
to do to be economical and that wouldn't
have worked so um you know I I think
couple of my of my concerns in general
and I do I agree with a lot of the
comments that Mr hire said I think
there's there's some I appreciate the
attention and the continued attention
and details to Transitions and the
cornes and and the brick work you see
that I think more clearly in the
renderings but in this in in this
particular facade uh there is so much
going on right we have a lot of massing
changes which we've all worked through
uh and you you've been able to develop
there's a lot going on in your brick
work which I think really kind of
exemplifies the kind of quality of brick
work that we want to see you know how
it's done linearly and broken down is is
a separate issue but the fact that
you're you're proposing to do so much I
I I think is incredibly important
because I think this specifically on
this facade we would see that I'm
assuming it's it tap tapers back less
detailed on M North which would be
typical uh but on this on the street
facade you know you're you're you're
working through those details and and
not uh omitting them from the design so
I really do appreciate that um on the
overall Main Street facade and I think
we looked at this in earlier renderings
but there's seven different material or
seven different color types if you
include the windows uh over six
different material types so two
different bricks you got a cement board
you got two three different metal panels
and three different colors and it to me
it's it's it's very busy and I think
it's difficult in this type of an
elevation which is is very clear in what
it's presenting to kind of capture the
overall atmosphere and what that's going
to feel like and your renderings are
they artistic they're kind of washed
which aren't as clear and I think I
would love seeing the next level of that
type of a rendering a little bit more
photo realistic to really see how these
are even if it's a detail not the
overall facade just to kind of see how
these are working together because I
think that'll also for you give you a
better visualization of how these really
will interact because I I can see you're
closely paying attention to how these
different materials work and in the end
that overall facade design is have to be
balanced in some sort of
hierarchy um and that's GNA be a
challenge because you have massing
competition with different massings and
height and setbacks and colors so um but
I think it's it's going strongly in the
right direction uh I don't think it's
there yet but I think you're I'm with
all the material choices you have the
color palette I think is is is solid the
only thing I question here is this the
permanence of the blue awning metal to
me that that if a brand was coming in
and saying you know here's here's our
brand that that would be the blue would
make some sense uh but to be that as the
backdrop to whatever whoever's coming in
doesn't make any sense to me because
it's it's too strong I'd rather have
that be a highlight but more neutral
highlight instead of a bright color uh
as one recommendation and I think my
only kind of question would be this is
this is horizontal metal or is this
brick um sorry uh horizontal metal
that's horizontal metal so it looks like
it's a horizontal corated or or so is or
is it something one of these products
that no
it's it's just kind of lap siding look
yeah okay but
it's okay yeah and it's actually darker
than how it's rendered there isn't it
that sample is not the actual color um
we actually believe that it is a light
color that's we believe that it's
painted something lighter are these two
panels just different widths or the or
colors or are these supposed to be the
same material just different color um
the pieces behind are in Shadow and I
think that is a separate material we
think that the siding material it forms
the shape of that L um and then the
pieces behind are part of the balcony
structure really so so I would just
focus on in in the M when you're because
you're really material is is
representing massing corre so you know
if these are setback but still part of
that same form you know pay close
attention if that's the same color or
how that wouldn't want to be the same
material so I think you're exploring
that it's just not real clear what all
of is happening here yeah I think that I
think this building is hard to
understand in elevation I think the
renderings clearly get you and I think
that the the building in its most basic
part is at least along the Main Street
facade is it's these it's each piece
each side is two interlocking brick
structures that have some sort of top
that that's ultimately what it is and
then they're separated and that tension
that's between them is then connected by
this what we're liking this this
contemporary material at the top floor
and then we need something then to grab
them together and call to entry and lock
them and so that's what that L form
starts to do and so while it is seven
different materials on the facade a lot
there if we didn't if we picked like the
L form and made it the same as the blue
canopy for for instance that that would
in our opinion would be too much of of
something like that um we think that
when you separate the two buildings and
you kind of pull them apart the two
pieces then lock them back together and
that's that's the the two extra
materials that that make this we think
pretty successful every everything else
is is just because the facade of the
building is is five stories across the
front and we we needed to change that
scale we thought so um I and I and I and
I agree I agree with that I think that
the the the comment I would have is it's
it's is really making sure you're
fine-tuning the scale of those materials
I mean brick is Brick details of the
details and you're kind of bringing
those traditional details in which is
great um but each of those kind of metal
panels and in the randomness versus the
not random I think all of that becomes
an
artistic articulation of form yeah uh
and I'm not saying it's wrong I think it
just needs I need to see it a little bit
clearer before I can fully support it
but I think you're on the right track
yeah
um there there was the the railing sub
was an aluminum railing which was I I
immediately said okay it's the
residential aluminum
railing but then I look at the clubhouse
and the railing that I think happens up
here um well it's in the elevation I
believe that railing is a railing is
represented on the I think this is the
clubhouse Terrace if remember correctly
it is um I would expect that the
anything that's kind of related to the
more commercial District of the building
would not be the same railing that would
be happening on the residential aspect I
would think that this would be a little
bit beefier a little bit more you know
commercial gray style railing because of
its more permanence and and less you
know pedestrian feel or you know single
family single resident style you know
delicate delicateness of that railing so
and that could be argued that it's this
entire facade is is very commercial and
it softens around the sides and north
but I was surprised as to see thinking
that you may be proposing these as the
same railing and I don't think that's
correct we are um part part of them at
least all the ones on the the third
floor I me you're seeing you're only
going to see a portion of the railing
because we have a parit and so the
railing is you're when when you're on
the that that third floor uh in that
club area you're seeing a portion of a
railing um we think we thought Al we
think aluminum double top rail is the
most appropriate for most of this
project I guess I I'm not opposed to
considering uh and studying what maybe
the pieces inside the L that sort of
could be your top rail thicker it the
post might be a little bit more robust
it's still kind a very Sim I have no
problem with a similar pattern and
looking like it's in the same family I
just think there should be a little bit
more uh commercial you know I think we
can study that for
sure can we look at the West and East
facades do you have those
elevation and I would also then open
this back up to the rest of the board
that's already commented so that we can
um because I'm I'm seeing these now also
kind of for the first time
tonight so can you explain a little bit
of what's happening in here on these
facades I know the massing and how
you've broken it down is exactly from
what I remember uh the railings we just
kind of talked about I see a solid crash
rail on the garage to block the
headlights which is great part of that
agreement uh the B Bap agreement but
just like how you how have you now
changed the detailing of the brick work
is probably
uh and maybe even the the the
transitions that you have in here yeah I
I think that the the materials are
consistent so when we
show a brick we it's the same brick when
we when we roll around the building we
think we've got the same pallet of
materials um no matter the location um
the uh the detailing for the brick we we
have started to simplify it as it moves
along so we have we still are looking at
uh Soldier headers and roock Sills um we
do not have we still have a coral detail
at that at that fourth floor
um I think that there is and I'm not
sure it shows up very well in this but I
do think that the base is going to have
a little bit of a stepped out base even
across the back of the building where we
we set the we we set the brick on the
ground with a little bit more something
Monumental so it's got a slight step um
the building does not have a consistent
grade line as it works so it's it's hard
to do that without making it feel like
it dies into the Earth and so we are
trying to figure out how each of these
sort of buildings have a little bit of a
you kind of pull that stuff together but
I don't think that the the main field of
those two that you see centered on the
screen there have a lot of other
detailing happening we we don't at this
time think we should be bringing out
coursing line or floor lines or trying
to do reveals or anything we think that
that those facades uh really need to
let the interest be in the in the
vertical uh slots that we've created and
the other things that are going on so um
I do think that the the header over the
larger openings is something that we uh
have studied um those are 20 foot 25
foot wide openings that you see um where
the crash Rail and garage is so that we
studied it with a soldier course and we
just it doesn't feel natural so we're
introducing a steel beam to an exposed
Channel
look to kind of help us with those
pieces um again trying to bring in some
of these more contemporary materials to
to Ports of this parts of this building
um the crash rail the piece of your
cursor is on right there um we're
showing it in the same darker color as
maybe the lap siding that does exist in
the recesses of some of the balconies
where they are um and I think the
material number the material call outs
on this and I know you haven't had time
to to to see them all but that crash
rail we've studied in several different
materials um we actually think that we
can do a form release concrete and get
it painted so that it's got the same
station you know horizontal siding form
Lin that's that
piece this is this happens to be the
West this is the west
elevation they're just those are just
openings into the garage on the first
two
levels y
and as the building goes around the
corner now that we the grade at the at
the back the left top left there um we
have some brick at the ground to get us
up to the first level uh where we have
the crash rail
still can we can we zoom into the west
elevation but the south end and look at
that transition so as that as that kind
of dress up facade on Main Street turns
you you have this what we say the
two-story brick detail and it kind of
wrapping a lot of those details that you
have in the South Toad and then it's
it's terminating at this point here
first Bay the first B the main building
entry for the the garage entry yes you
got you heard my comment about that so
okay um I'm not and I again I'd like to
turn this back over to the other board
members um I'm not there's a lot of
these infill panels I know you explain
some of that if you scroll a little bit
further north um these are these are
this the metal sighing or you said it's
maybe painted uh here but these these to
me I know you're you're trying to to
kind of bring some of this verticality
down um but I'm not convinced that it's
an alternate material I would be okay
with changing a brick pattern or doing
some brick work
but they they seem a little fussy in
materials to me or they they've been
infilled because they were once open so
I would just pay attention and think
through those a little bit for so that
this doesn't have to get just too kind
of splotchy with materials it it can be
a foundation and strong sure some of
those perspective renderings the
building has a very strong presence and
timelessness to it and I think once the
more you introduce these types of
details that in kind of trying to bring
the verticality of the upper flors down
I don't know if that's necessary I think
that I don't know if they even need to
be there in a simple detail transition
smaller than all the detail here but it
kind of It kind of separate the base of
the building from the top could work as
well so uh I'm not saying that this is a
no but I would like you to explore um
different ways to kind of articulate
that because I would think the they may
stand out as a little being you know
kind of
odd anyone else want to jump in how do
you feel about it between the windows as
you go
up those panels
there what are you asking I'm asking you
since it's still in my court uh I I
don't know if I it's necessary I think
this is you know these these windows and
the punches and the brick I think is is
is perfectly fine and and and expected I
think this becomes a little bit more
modern and we have I have done this a
lot of times but it's usually in a in a
not not in Brick so I'm trying to bring
some verticality to a design uh and I I
understand you're kind of you change
proportions and you're trying to think
about the scaling of how this building
steps as you go vertical but especially
on the side the side elevations I think
again simplifying that is better here
then let the brick work be the
brick because there's there's a lot
going on so you the step backs the
balconies your your juliets you know
there's a lot of detail that is
happening in the the subtle changes of
the materials on this facade and it's
just normal punches and those that I'm
not sure those are necessary yeah we we
studied it more like the the piece on
the right and because that piece had
enough of the sort of rustication on the
base we we we agree we didn't feel like
we needed to create a sort of create
those spandrel pieces in between but as
we moved around the building um we we
just didn't feel like we were going to
have the rusticated base and so we
really wanted to start to bring up some
of the verticality so those pieces are
intentional in that we're trying to
create a little more verticality as it
works through the back and not it's tall
it's I understand that um yeah but you
don't you don't need to have a different
material if that brick is just recessed
yes then you're going to get that
verticality and it actually creates more
of that Simplicity by just making a
brick I agree I don't and I think it you
know as you maybe take left red rings
and I think I'm not sure this elevation
is doing a Justice it may look better in
3D uh but I agree I don't I don't I
think this in brick work would be just
as actually more powerful than material
changes
agree it's a lot more brick that's we're
trying to minimize where we can I think
that we have to find places where we can
find some economy um this is one of
those areas where we like we we I like
the look of the vertical twostory piece
I think the spandrel connected the two
um it is a more contemporary use of
those but I I I personally think that it
is a is a strong aesthetic when it's
done
so is deceiving because you're looking
at White blocks right it's we understand
we read this but you know when in
reality that that may be fine or maybe
it's not that horizontal material maybe
it's just more of a solid panel I don't
know but I think I think this isn't
convincing okay in the argument I think
as you and if you have that position
then I think you just need to work on
how that gets communicated and in your
confidence and
then we might be fine with that
yeah uh I think that's all I have to
say I agree with a lot of what's said so
I won't repeat any but I had a question
about the vinal black
windows are are you concerned at all
about
black about solid black I know we asked
for dark but I I get a little bit
worried about a solid black I'm worried
a little bit um that it fades over time
with with it being vinyl and it won't
fade the same on all sides of the
building or those areas that maybe you
know don't get direct sun compared to
ones that do um and so I was wondering
if you explored like a dark bronze or
things that might might weather better
and maybe feel a little bit more like
the old building yeah even the even the
dark bronze vinyl Fades and so I think
the concerns about fading um even the
white Fades to some degree I I think
that
um we felt the black was a better sort
of Baseline because it tied into some of
other things that we were trying to do
for color-wise
um bringing in introducing the dark
bronze wasn't something that we felt was
successful um we liked the the we did
like the darker color um I
I don't know the cost Delta between the
various window types I mean once we get
out of the world of white black is then
the most the second most economical if
you will and then some of those other
colors that are available if we stay
away from the sandstones and and those
if we get out of that range then then um
it it's it's a cost issue that we have
to evaluate um we did speak with uh
we've spoken with when new manufacturers
and and we've landed on a product that
we feel is uh within our budget and and
and we feel pretty we like the look I've
used that particular brand we like how
it coordinates with the sliding systems
they have and those kind of things um I
can we can bring samples we just do not
have a physical sample of that black
window but it's something that we can
get our hands on yeah i' would be
curious to see it because sometimes
black can read like Navy you know if it
does tend to be more of a cooler black
and sometimes if it's just a warmer
black it it's to me it can be much much
better so I would be curious to let get
we'll say we used quicker black Windows
a lot and it's black it's Quaker right
yeah it's a it's a laminate finish on
the black pretty dark so I'm happy with
that so that's that was my comment must
but the twostory sections that's all
storefront correct the the Main Street
facade where we've got um retail on the
first floor and then office on the
second floor that's also our front and
we think that is also black black
anodise there was will it but it will be
a different black than the
vinyl um well they're different masses
so I think they want to feel a little
different they're going to be Fin's
going to be more dense of a black and
the metal is going to be you know a
little more forgiving that's right
correct but yeah
yeah well and then the other thing is I
do appreciate a lot of your brick
details that you're showing in the
rendering and stuff um I just um want to
make sure all that stuff ends up in the
drawings we were talking earlier about
how if you don't draw it it doesn't get
built so um we just I would just want to
make sure that all those lovely details
get drawn so that they actually get
built yeah these are these are working
drawings that we are into now so we uh
and that's part of the reason
why we need to study it at a working
drawing at an elevational level the the
renderings mean a lot less to me than
the elevations and so um we we've
updated where we could we we updated
what we thought was appropriate um I I I
think we just need to you know we can
bring in fullsize samples of these if we
needed to and get out of the digital
realm if you need them but I this
building is is there's a lot going on
and so the elevations are are you know
you can really pick up some of the
detail when you when you see it printed
at scale so I I would say that um the
mortar color when you do find the right
red brick that it should be a buff color
not a gray to White Portland cement I
just think it'll take away from the the
warmth of the brick I mean we do a lot
of historic renovation and preservation
and um you know buildings that date back
to the 19th century and there's nothing
that enhances a red brick more than a
buff color um know large or whoever
makes these they're the buff is pretty
common but if you look in the arena
district for instance those are all buff
um colored
mortars um this this just looks like
Portland cement so I would I would go
warmer
definitely colored mortar regular mortar
we understand well I mean it just you
know how it is it changes your
perception of the brick yeah if it's too
Portland cementy then it all you look at
is the joints yeah if it goes warmer and
a little bit darker like with a buff
then you're looking at the brick
yeah it's too dark it's monolithic
so so on your west elevation can you go
back
out I'm so the brick that's coming down
on down around the parking garage I'm
I'm concerned about how the details
around these openings at the parking
garage are going to work out
so if I look at the side here where that
brick is just uh right above the number
five am I going to see a concrete column
is this brick coming down just on the
face or is it wrapping and going around
we want to turn it back in we have the
opportunity to turn it back in at the
two openings you see here yeah I think
that's important that this garage looks
like it's part of the building and we're
just not coming down to the base of the
building and putting a a face on it
agreed um and I I have concern I thought
you I thought I saw some openings where
the vehicles were going in where you
brought that metal down along the sides
of the vehicular entrance and I I mean
what like right over here to the far
left is that a vehicular entrance no
this is a vehicular entrance here and
this is a vehicular entrance here this
is just an opening into the garage as
the as the grade starts to move up this
actually I don't I realize it printed
this is actually deeper into the garage
this won't this is not in the facade
neither is this this is these are recess
packs so then as I look up under the
balconies what am I the projecting
balconies what does that look like um
right now it we are on the residential
side on the sides and in the back we
believe that that is open framing with
track I don't like
that to let you know yeah I
understand softening and then draining
it off and all that has been why we have
we have not we've not gotten to that
point so is there when you when you're
working with those aluminum rail systems
like the Juliet things you have here do
they have options for what the
connections plates look like with bolts
so that it doesn't look
industrial depending on the manufacturer
that that connection that connection
those fourpoint pieces yes normally
they're very Square I mean the same
actually didn't bring I didn't bring the
railing sample it's in my car um I
didn't want to Lug it in it's usually a
pretty Square plate I we can talk to the
manufacturers and see if they have
something that is maybe circular or
other some other style um they just they
they look so industrial yeah even the
ones that historic houses wind up using
for their rail systems just it looks
like screwed you know bolted together
component parts instead of an old uh
rail you know that is gentle y they're
very they're very harsh
yeah okay is there anyone in the
audience that wants to speak about this
application hearing that um at this
point then I feel like we have a few
things that are
still too late do you have another
question or yeah
St your name again please Kathy scol
thank you
um I'm just wondering why all the time
and detail was put into the front
facade and looking at the west side
which faces the
Alexander it just looks like a jail to
me on that
side and isn't there a way to soften it
or
do something to it so it's not just
window window window and there's
no nothing to break it up well that is
what you were hearing us talk about with
those panels and we were asking them to
actually take that back to Brick but
that is what his intention is is to
break that up and then keep in mind too
you will have trees and stuff down and
plantings and stuff down through there
that will help soften it but typically a
building is much more or on the front
than it is as it goes down the sides you
can see that on you know pretty much any
building um just look at them you know
as you go down Main street or in the
short North or whatever right so that is
pretty typical that the front of the
building would be more
ornate we're we're glad you have brick
though I mean it it could have been a
lot I'm not saying a lot worse well yeah
but you know that that brick work you
know when they get the right brick it's
G it'll be nice yeah I think that'll be
really having a natural material like
that is is going to be really it'll be
warm yeah I mean gentle in General on
building of this scale and size you see
no bur um or only one floor and it's all
just horizontal you know it's not
usually vinyl but it's you know cement
board siding and it's very stripped down
so I think the owner uh and and the
applicant and The Architects have done
Great Lengths to U work with this board
over the last six months or so to kind
of break down that facade so it didn't
look like a very repetitive massing
punched windows so uh you know we feel
uh they've you know that they've done
within the limits of what you can do in
this type of construction um you know
that facade is going to be a lot nicer
and I agree with Mr hire that the brick
work uh even as they say stripping it
down is still upgraded from what you can
get so um you know we're we're confident
that it's gonna look very nice okay I
just keep hoping for a little more
softness thank you thank you show the
west side and show where approximately
the Alexander footprint is in relation
to this big
side I don't think we have those
drawings um uploaded it would basically
be the back of the building is goes back
than our building goes back to our
garages so the Alexander starts right
about here so the
garages the traveling where the
traffic's coming out does not ref refe
Flex into the parking lot where the Old
Bag of Nails is so this is all kind of
approximately where the Alexander
is get a
perspec and and that is where we they
have added a lot of brick so it has
changed substantially
correct thank you and the headlight
[Music]
screening Okay so I hear that there are
still a few um issues are where we at
now are we asking them to come back or
are
we I what did what did everyone else
hear or as a board member what what do
you want to
see so in summary I think uh I'm in
agreement with the material selections
and choices that you're working with I
think I'm impressed actually uh I think
it's it's adds a lot of value to the
longevity and quality of this building
so thank you uh but you heard my
comments I think just having one more
step of of working through some of these
details which I think there's been a lot
of thought on Main Street and and and a
little less because of the side I get it
this thing a big building um and then
maybe the next level of rendering and
it's not doesn't have to be 100
renderings I think it's just showing you
know that how these materials in this
composition because at this point it's
it is truly just a composition of scale
color
uh and massing on how those are
articulated that I think would be very
very helpful and convincing me that this
is the right choice and you guys are on
the right track so uh tonight I I can't
vote for a yes because I think we still
need to see that information yeah let me
offer up something I mean in parallel to
this there's obviously an actual
practical schedule that's occurring and
trying to move the project forward um
and we we realize to me it feels like
we're getting into the minutia the
project um but there's also summer
that's happening and and I really you
know I'm I'm more of the contractual
mind and figuring out how things get
done um one of the issues that we're
running into is trying to satisfy
conditions to be able to allow things to
move forward out in the field and it
it's our desire to get to a point where
clearly we need to come back and address
some of the concerns that's been raised
tonight I think that they're fairly
minor maybe that's my opinion but
recognizing that that needs to happen
however I I would like to continue to
progress on the other end of the the
Spectrum with actually getting things
moving in the field so uh one of the
expectations is that you know we've
satisfied uh most of the conditions here
and we're looking for some relief in uh
with Bap to allow them to at least move
forward for Demolition and realizing
that you know the that part uh can only
occur with you know meeting that
condition which was s sharing materials
and Sample boards which I think we've
accomplished tonight uh and just
recognize that you know there still is
in a separate condition out there that
says any architectural changes that need
to be met need to come back to the board
I feel like that's where we are um that
you know really what I'm asking for is
although we've we've hit arb1 at least
in my opinion there's still that other
condition that we need to come back for
architectural changes and I think that's
what that is um but that would at least
allow us to continue to move forward on
the other end of the spectrum so I'm
offering that up uh as a possible
solution and condition to address what
we can come back next month I mean
that's no problem well it's clear that I
mean arb1 was the applicant returns to
the ARB with material boards and samples
you've done that yeah so you've
satisfied everything you've you've
satisfied one through seven and eight
has to wait right right so I think with
that you you should be able to go back
to Bap however you know it's not
uncommon for a new build like this for
us to be looking at these kind of things
you know things continue but those are
things that are in your you know that
some of them will have options even
written into the spec doesn't mean that
you should be held up with the the
drawings yeah we have a lot of work to
do a lot of work to do and it'll be
months before we're done with
construction documents so I me when the
beex Le when when Ohio State Bank was
was under review we asked for actual you
know real masonry samples not just
panels like this I mean it'll come down
to those kind of decisions so but that
that shouldn't hold you up
at least that's my opinion so I you know
uh I'm not a legal person but it I know
that's what I've heard from from the
legal side of how to move that forward
as we need to address that in some form
with the knowledge we still need to come
back okay so are we Katherine then are
we asking for a tabling or are
we e
so we were we're just discussing about
procedure here about how we might move
this forward by also uh working with the
client with the staff architect but also
with this board over the coming months
to continue to work through the things
we discussed today so I
ask well I think Mr higher hit the nail
on the head if the if the finding is
with the
that conditions one through seven have
been
satisfied um you know in terms of them
moving forward their application but
this board could put a condition on that
that or you know a note to the Bap
condition on that that they will
continue to come back and work through
architectural refinements with you and
that can include the materials and all
that I think that's fine they their
their main objective is to find you know
to satisfy so you see what's happening
um and and we understand that there's
going to be more work and this is an
applicant who's worked hard with the
neighbors and and the board and I think
Bap would be supportive of that and
that's really an issue um to the
applicants um perspective they have
certain conditions they have to meet
these to keep moving forward with their
building plans and with their demolition
plans and all of those things we want
them to be able to progress and not be
held up on these Minor Details when
they've got major things that they've
got to get accomplished too as part of
this process so I think that's fine um I
would suggest making the board making a
finding that those conditions have been
met that condition 8 will have to come
back later and that with a
recommendation that the
applicant be required to continue to
work with this boort on architectural
finement so is that basically a tabling
then no that's I'm finding that the
conditions have been met okay um to
allow them to proceed with
their you know Demolition and all of the
other things that they have to do their
site work that they have to do which is
very time consuming um with their
understanding and the board's understand
of course if they make any major change
it's come back anyway or any significant
change it's coming back anyway um as
part of this process and they would just
then we do we do a
modification um but it sounds to me like
what you're really talking about is
there is is uh wanting to see more
details but in terms of the materials
the material boards they have been
presented the board is generally
satisfied with that and just keeping
them back to make sure that you have
every detail that you need okay and we
can check what the applicant to make
sure that they're okay with that but I
think that that accomplishes both them
being able to continue to move their
application forward and this board being
continue to um see the refinements that
are going on and as and I represent your
decision that 1 through seven has been
satisfied I can ask Bap if they do then
approve it give it final approval to
condition it on them reviewing all the
details with this board as things
progress okay is everybody so that it'll
be official not just like promise us
it's a recommendation not a
condition that they well I have the
condition that architectural refinement
return for recommendations to B zap
that's a recommendation or a condition
based on this Bap
application I'm calling it a it's a
condition
what's a
recommendation right it is with
that are you
okay we are now at an hour and 15
minutes and and we have five other
applications one other lengthy one
tonight and so at this point I feel like
if you would like to review the plans on
the city's website and stuff you are
more than welcome to do that and you are
more than welcome to contact the city
staff to walk through things with you um
to explain things to you and keep in
mind that a lot of this is going to
change or not a lot of this some of the
details will change as the building
progresses so um okay so let's go back
to then what are we we just reading
findings of
fact yeah the the findings of fact would
relate and we also need to have the
applicant weigh in but the findings of
fact would relate to whether or not the
conditions have been satisfied
conditions 1 through 7 eight will cannot
be satisfied yet until the plans
progress but they have been satisfied
but now we are adding new conditions
well you're no I I don't view it as a
new condition I view it as the
continuing condition that if there are
changes in the architecture or
refinements that they need to come back
to this board okay for the forther
applicants request yeah
does that
satisfy yes that's satisfactory thank
you that was that was a great wording
did you got
that I mean we were all talking so much
and then kind of sort of and then Miss
Cunningham said something really just
succinct and that was that was it that's
all you need would you like me to read
the finding hes that I've got it correct
okay uh the architecture review board
uh the findings effect and decision of
the board for application number bz
ap-237 for property located at 2200 East
Main Street the architecture review
board recommends to the board of zoning
and planning that the conditions number
one through seven have been met subject
to all additional architecture
refinement return for recommendations to
the board Des zonning and planning
oh and and condition eight is further
subject to uh choice of
tenant I just say what what is
conditioning it
is be reviewed by the airb when a tenant
is secured so the lawyer words for that
and I'm not suggesting you do that would
be condition a is not yet right for
determination
or condition 8 cannot yet be determined
until a future date when tenants are
identified maybe that's that's the
better way to say it not yet be
determined can you read that
again and
sub to Future
ten the entire thing yes yes thank you
the findings and fact and decision of
the board for application number bcap
d23 23 per property located at 2200 East
Main Street the board recommends to the
board of zoning and planning that
conditions number one through seven have
been met subject to additional
architectural refinement return for
recommendations to the
bcap and number eight condition cannot
yet be determined and is subject to
Future tenant
yeah
winner do you understand the findings of
facts that they have been read you do
good is there a board member that will
make a motion and you agree
yes so moved higher second
Hall I will call the role Mr Hall yes Mr
Scott yes Mr hire yes madame Tony
yes thank you very much we will see you
back um for anyone in the audience
that's going to go look for the drawings
please give me until the end of the
meeting to get them
posted and you're welcome it'll be
online after the meeting and I'd also
like to state that We additionally sent
out a notice regarding neighbors uh
concerns about the logistics of
construction which will be next Tuesday
May 21st at 2 pm in council chambers
and I believe I have a notice hanging in
the Alexander for those that are
interested thank
you we're gonna do another one we're
gonna
go it was okay our next application is
number Bap
24-9 excuse me but if you're going to
talk please leave the chambers We are
continuing the me the
meeting application number B app 24-9
the address is 129 South cassingham the
applicant is Brenda Parker and the owner
is John and Stacy Barnard applicant is
Seeking a recommendation to us app for a
certificate of appropriateness to allow
second and third floor editions as well
as a single story Edition at the
South Brenda do you want to come up to
be sworn in and
Karen a brief description of yes very
brief Anda Parker do you somly swear
from the testimony you're about to give
this evening is the truth yes thank you
okay um briefly uh this application was
tabled last month um I think um Brenda
and we all agreed that some massing
changes needed to happen to keep this
kind of craftsman style house um the
addition and keeping with the original
house um I still and no no board member
really wanted to put it on consent
either so there might be some comments
from the boards but my my critique was
that I still believe that the oh this is
the new one sorry the um the roof line
needed to still be brought down um it's
still was it still seemed high so Brenda
and I talked a bit on the phone earlier
gosh was that today yesterday yesterday
you work quick to see if maybe she might
um you know it's busy meeting so I don't
have time to really do a lot of research
and talk but I suggest that maybe should
look at um changing some of those window
windows and P pulling the roof the hip
down a little bit and looking at some
Dormer conditions um I I get it's a more
complicated construction but I think
it'll be more typical of of the kind of
addition for this Brenda who works very
quickly has already um given I I haven't
had time to look at these it's a very
quick study just a quick study of of
kind of what we talked through bringing
the roof down even more so we can we can
go back um Brenda you can talk
through yeah um that's not what I'm
looking at on my screen this is so this
is the resubmitted so last month um we
had a gable roof line and we had a third
floor um and when we spoke last month we
talked about trying to make the Second
Story Edition just a backdrop and so
instead of pronouncing a able to take it
back to a hip Ru and we lost the third
floor so we could reduce the height so
right now this is a 612 pitch um
the porch is a 312 pitch so I'm
wondering
even you know if we're matching that 312
pitch if it might even read a little
better in this scenario um but then I
had a conversation with Karen yesterday
and and we thought you know maybe the
you know bringing it down more and kind
of doing a Dorma Concepts could be
successful so I just did a quick study I
didn't spend a lot of time on it but
just to see how that might start to come
about and if that maybe is a direction
that we want ahead with the design for
next
month okay this is it's very difficult
on such short notice to evaluate this
and I don't really expect you two we can
go back to kind of what was submitted
for this month and talk about you know
the concerns is the concern still that
the roof is feeling a little bit too
tall um you know and there was con some
some concern about the the bay at the
front and how to treat that roof line so
that it doesn't pronounce itself and
become a third element so I think we
just give feedback on this design and I
can take it and bring it back next month
yeah I really didn't expect Brenda to
quickly turn around some new new
Concepts that impressive um and and the
board may not agree with my assessment
but I just felt like the roof still felt
kind of high
so okay I'll keep it on this packet
unless you want to see is there a board
member that would like to go first and
we will be discussing the drawings that
are the ones that were submitted
today yeah for the meeting to yeah for
this month yeah the ones that were
submitted
right and the ones that are on the board
not the ones that are on my screen
correct um so uh thank you I think you I
appreciate the efforts that you make in
working with staff but also with the
board um I think we had a really good
discussion last time about the
competition right this and I think that
elevation is deceiving because the
elevation uh this front porch is is
going to be a dominating feature of this
house because it's projection out even
though it's one story its features its
columns um all really kind of articulate
this facade and I think even so much
from the in the existing design it
dominated the main main house um so when
you add the Second Story it starts to
compete and I think we we last time last
time you were here we asked about kind
of making the the main massing the
building be secondary to the front I
think you've you've explored that uh I
think for me if I look at the Main
massing and the bay window aside on the
first floor your lower elevation um I
think is is a little bit more successful
because I don't like the tucking the
what I'm thinking is is metal roofing
underneath the sopit of the second floor
I'd rather just kind of pull that roof
down and let it be simple though it
feels a little like it's closing one eye
um so I I'm not sure how that looks in
3D so I think it's the elevation that is
is hurting I'm kind of picture this and
I think it might be okay but it's hard
to see um I think there's some conflict
I have with the um and I don't know
exactly how the two roofs the first
floor roof and this this bay window work
um exactly here might have to go to the
other elevation to see that but it seems
to be a little halfhazard where they
kind of collide um and I think that's
it's
this where is that is that that roof is
coming and
hitting here what am I
missing yeah go back to the prime
I mean and even the existing house is is
just a kind of a a mess over on that
right because it's got a bay and then
another smaller Bay and then it's got
the gable roof and that at a different
pitch than the porch roof so it's all
just a a mess the one you had the front
elevation bottom bottom elevation that's
fine so is it this this main this first
floor roof is coming down and and
turns almost along that face is that the
idea can you zoom into that so
this do this this fascia and this fascia
kind of it just turns back and runs into
each other or is this a Le that Middle
Bay is detach like this the smaller Bay
is a standalone Bay that doesn't touch
anything okay um but the the twostory
bay is right at that kind of the
backdrop of that porch and obviously
there's going to be a cricket up in
there where that P Ruff is sloping into
that bay and I think that bay projects
what like four
feet yeah it's
weird yeah I just I don't I guess I
don't fully understand the connection
between all of this and it's its depth
and I just need to look at a little bit
more but it is weird um and it this
might this might be one of those houses
where it's going to have to Warrant kind
of me pulling together a 3D model of it
so so so everybody can kind of see how
it comes together it may I think it's
going to help and it may help you also
visualize kind of work it through in
massing yeah but I think you know from
where we where you were last time I
think you're on the right track I just
think you know how this actually is
detailed and how that works because it's
just it feels like it's a droopy you
know eyebrow um on the house and I don't
like the tuck underneath so I think this
is the way to go or I'm interested to
hear what other board members might see
I was thinking of maybe it's a dormer
but that gets even more hcal and messy
yeah I looked at that I thought about
you know if you drop the roof all the
way down and pulled it back but then it
gets it really changes the
characteristic in the the feel of the
architecture that that that because that
front porch is so
strong um but I I'd like to hear what
the other board members have to
say what if that window is only half as
big where it lined up with the bottom of
the other windows on that story this one
here so yeah this just making it a
little bit more of a smaller window
maybe I still think it's it's more of a
massing game of how this works and how
this you know traditionally how you
would detail this and I'm I'm not sure I
have an answer my head can I jump in yes
please I think that this is a problem of
the eve at the second floor it's it's
what you've
drawn here that's the
problem I think that this roof if you're
going to go Craftsman bun
that you should have um rafter tails
that come out towards the street and
support a larger overhang here and feel
like a little bit like almost like a
Pergola and then have a low sloped roof
you know basically set it up as a low
slope so those those Rafters could
actually be just low sloped but I think
this needs to be horizontal but I think
it needs an architectural feature like
an extend an extended overhang with you
know rafter Tales or something to give
it character then you're it then this
makes
sense see because this is just going to
come straight across it means that your
ceiling in here instead of being shaped
is just going to be a little bit lower
right right which it is now and I think
you're done with that okay that's my I'm
just thank you Mr Scott for talking so I
could sit and just Ponder this that that
yeah um but I think also that detail
when you look at the
side uh that if that if that detail
expresses itself you know the long end
of the rafter then it's going to look
more natural I think instead of what you
got going I I also am not convinced that
this is Too Tall okay and I think part
of that is because of the proportion of
this house with the other houses around
it what's missing here is your drawing
that shows the other houses with it yeah
I don't think they made it into
extremely helpful it did last time
because I want to see that
line you submit
that I thought I did I have it
drawn so I just I just need to go back
and see but I can I can submit it for
the next time yeah because if if that
Eve is oh there there's kind of the
streetcape I mean it's just using the
photographs
but that's the prior
submission yeah that's really hard to
judge
because those are perspective views
instead of you actually yeah the last
submission so it's a lot shorter now oh
I see even with the uh because the third
floor is no longer there I see I see
yeah so I think you're right I mean this
is a house that you need to see next to
neighbors and also three-dimensionally
because it looks like a gable roof but
it's not it's a hip yeah I can take the
time to draw those the adjacent
houses they know they can just be lines
right don't you know oh yeah like it
don't have to don't have to have all the
details we can pick that up okay it's
just good to see but just be careful of
where the grade changes are because if
you're standing there shooting a laser
up you might be two feet up from your
next door neighbor or you the other
house on the other side so just be
careful but I I think I think the
proportions are are fine in general as
long as you could resolve that little
roof condition okay the windows in the
new submission yeah that I I don't like
that yeah but the but yeah when I when I
looked at it today I'm like
[Laughter]
oh I mean look at um you know Craftsman
the Craftsman period in 1920s teens and
20s also had you know houses called four
square and the four square houses have
a hipped Roof System typically with
dormers on all four sides that's why
they call it a four square and they
typically had a proportion of being
almost well they're kind of rectangular
but they they looked like a square but
the details on those including windows
and these kind of porches there aren't a
lot of I don't there are a few four
squares in Bexley but very few um but
that would be your model here that's
what that's what I see when I look at
this a beautiful Craftsman for square
okay okay Mr
Hall I think they covered it I like to I
was glad that you threw up your last
submission because I wasn't here didn't
see it I think this is a much better
approach I'm fine with the height of the
hip roof um I'm glad Mr hire was able to
Think Through how to resolve that
blinking eye because once you said that
I couldn't get off of it um and he got
me off of it so I appreciate that and I
I think if you study it
three-dimensionally it's going to help
you finesse it enough that it's going to
make this a really successful
project
okay okay so it sounds like we are up
for a table yes okay um so you would be
tabled to
the June June what
meeting 13 June 13th and if you aren't
ready for that one just let us know you
can be tabled
again is there a board member that will
make a motion oh can I go to bcap or
should I wait
again well we wanted to see the
comparison of the street I think that
would be important for us okay just to
get the height
right motion to table Hall second
Scott Mr Scott yes Mr H yes Mr Hall
yesam Tony yes thank you we'll see you
back he we are going to take a really
quick break so that some can use the
facilities um we will be back here
in minutes five
minutes
e
e e
h
[Music]
so it comes up
[Music]
need toy 129
Sil
she was working for
okay our next application number is ARB
24-9 the address is 236 North Columbia
the applicant is John Beall and the
owner is Yar the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness to
demolish an existing home and replace
with a new
home okay so this was also on our agenda
last month
and Karen will give us an update yes
okay before I pull up any information I
just wanted to um quickly go over the
process which I think last month we
didn't do anything wrong nothing just
that we sorry I didn't have this on we
were kind of all over the place so I
just want to make sure um we go over the
process for um the for for any applica a
General
application
um for removal of existing structures
this process flowchart is simply a
person with a graphic mind which is me
putting the demolition ordinance into a
flowchart so you're seeing the
demolition ordinance out of legal uh
language just in the flowchart um so
when when one applies for a demolition
or removal of an existing structure we
need the following documentation a
statement of support of demolition the
existing site plan plan assessment for
reuse that's very general that covers
everything landscape plan Etc um what I
really want to focus on is what we are
here to do and there are steps to it we
first want to determine for evaluation
of of the significance for preservation
we want to determine one and the most
important thing we want to talk about
first is whether it is historically or
architecturally significant
period if it is considered historically
or architecturally significant then we
want to talk about is it worthy of
preservation so something can be
historically or architecturally
significant yet have other issues with
it that make it not worthy of
preservation I want to make sure that
that I'm not saying that in reference to
this particular project but I want to
make sure we are looking at them step by
step so if the if we determine that this
is not historically or architecturally
significant we don't even need to talk
about whether it's worthy of
preservation we just go immediately to
evaluating the new structure
so I'm not going to go through the whole
thing here we will have this as a tool
though to help us go through the process
does anybody have any questions about
that I just want to be clear that the
first thing that we're going to look at
is and we're going to talk about is
whether or not the existing structure is
historically or architecturally
significant got it except one thing I
think that the in gotta be sworn in you
can talk okay so yoaz wants to be sworn
in too okay and and
count wanted a neighbor wanted to speak
so can we all get morning at the same
time sure all right state your name
starting with you sir Kyle G John Beall
yes sir you solemnly swear or firm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do I do thank you
thanks so uh I understand exactly where
you're coming from um and that was my
plan until I really read the engineers
report uh which we just got in the last
few days and to me the engineering in
the engineering rep has everybody been
able to read like The conclusions of
that report the the inj the conclusions
of that report are so extreme and clear
demanding demolition pretty much
demanding demolition of the house that I
think the architectural significance now
is a second tier item because can I
interrupt you for a minute yeah and I'm
not disagreeing with you or agreeing
with you I understand completely but
it's still important that we talk about
whether it's historically
architecturally significant because even
if it's not worthy of preservation just
theoretically based on the engineering
report we still want to determine
whether the structure itself is because
we as a board May ultimately say um yeah
it's not worthy of preservation there's
too many structural issues I don't know
but if that's the case we at least want
to CL classify it as historically or
architecturally significant is it if it
is so that we can put in place some
things like documentation for future
generations and that that kind of stuff
so I don't want to jump that okay I get
it I get it no I'm I'm being I have a
different agenda than you do right yeah
so I get it really no
question
okay all
right okay so go ahead okay now so not
everybody was here last week but the uh
you
know uh I'll start with this because I
didn't say this last week and or last
month and I wanted to make it up we did
look at renovating this house of course
before we know knew about these terrible
structural problems we looked at it and
the program really did not work very
efficiently uh for the needs of the
client we have so uh so it wasn't like
we ignored the possibility of renovating
this house I I think maybe the last
meeting I gave that impression we did
look at it and fairly quickly realized
that programmatically it wasn't going to
work now uh the historical significance
the
uh you know the case I made last time
and I think uh actually when I read Joe
kushman's letter seems seemed to sort of
re-emphasize my point I we're not saying
that this house is not architectural at
all and or it has no merit whatsoever I
mean okay there it's a mid-century house
it's by no ver M there's there are a few
interesting things about
it it's it's kind of plain in a lot of
ways it's kind of average in a lot of
ways and and I think very specifically
Bexley set the bar very
high uh to
significant not just good
not just maybe not just above average
but significant and I think there's
there's the threshold that this house
does not meet and uh the other thing
that I want to mention last last month a
couple people mentioned that a lot of
the other houses that you have allowed
to be demolished were in much worse
shape than this house and I just want to
reiterate the the your code does not
say a house in bad shape uh can be
demolished or a house that's in good
shape can't be demolished it says it has
to be architecturally or historically
significant so that is the basis of our
case and I and you have Rob's letter
from uh last time talking about the
placement on the lot and and you have
all my notes from the previous
application I can go through them again
if you want me to but uh but you I think
you already know our position on why we
think this house is does not fall into
that category so I just wanted to great
that's all good and just so you know the
board members that um weren't here last
time um have assured me that they've all
listened to all of the testimonies so
nothing needs to be repeated they've
listened to the the um video recordings
and and study the minutes okay um since
that time because you had a you know
because it got abled we felt the city
Kathy and I felt that it was um a good
idea and and necessary to have an an
architect hired by the city do an
evaluation for those of you who don't
know what what John is referring to by
by Joe huspen um letter and Joe is here
so if if any board members wanted to ask
any questions or whatever he he he has
come um so so I wanted to point out that
additional piece of information and the
other additional piece of information
which you've already alluded to which is
the second step is the structural report
um there are a couple other things that
I added to the file this afternoon I did
not forward them to board members it's
very short timing but they honestly are
one pagers they're like a structural
detail for um a cost analysis page so um
I'm very sensitive to giving our board
members information at the last minute
because there's just you see we already
had a case that was an hour and a half
so um that that information is on here
and we could bring it up and talk and I
could talk about yeah yeah yeah so I
just wanted to point out the new pieces
of information okay okay so do you have
new things that you wanna that you want
to present to us or on the architectural
significance now I think I think uh we
covered it the last time so I mean do
you have any questions I mean well I
have a question about the engineering
report is the engineer here no so
Katherine because we can't ask questions
of them is that
report
valid well
it's the a witness who's presenting a
report for your should be present
to sorry um the when you're in a quasi
judicial hearing when you've got a
witness who's rendering an opinion to
the board typically the witness would
have to appear because it's just hearsay
um of a report when you you don't have
them to testify about what they did or
why they did or or answer the questions
of the board um so and one option is to
table it to allow the witness to be able
to come um if you wanted to you can um
it's kind of like just getting the board
getting a letter we never let the boards
consider letters when the person who
wrote The Letter isn't here because
again it's not a sworn statement and
this is a quasi judicial hearing where
you're trying to meet criteria of the
code so typically we would require that
um those people appear to testify um you
got a letter from Mr kusman that's part
of the reason he's here because it's
just a letter and you know that person
needs to be here to sort of tell you
their opinion and for you to have the
opportunity to ask them and then be
subject to cross examination if there's
legal counsel or
opponents okay does it matter if the
engineers report is
sealed I think signed and sealed
um for me it's you know the majority of
the letter is observation and and
factual information based on someone's
engineering expert opinion there are
some commentaries but I'm aware of those
commentaries so for me I'm okay with the
letter being submitted because it is
sealed U but I understand that there is
precedent we've had many letters that
we've reviewed that they were not here
present so I don't seem to want to draw
a line to s for this particular case I'm
I personally am fine with accepting it
as is and and I I defer to our attorney
but we also have already used Robert
Livy's letter without him being here
correct so not
sure well I have to say also from my
point of view you asked for last you
asked for certain members asked for a
structural report last week last uh
meeting and if I if he needed to be here
I think you should have told
me I agree I mean we are we are
struggling with the legal parts of all
this as board members understanding what
is what we're supposed to be and what
we're not supposed to be doing so um I
apologize that that wasn't made clear
um is there a board member that kind of
wants to go first then to discuss I just
have a question is it the requirement
that may be
present in the administrative process
typically would be because otherwise you
don't have them to explain their report
or ask questions to or
you know it's just in legal jargon it
would be hearsay because it's an out of
you know it's a it's a report that
somebody isn't here to testify to or
defend if the board customarily does
that and you want to accept it you know
that's not the greatest legal procedure
but I understand that that has been
happened and and there is an impact of a
steal um because they they do have an
obligation you know under that but it's
not the same as having a witness to here
to testify okay can I can I just mention
one thing yoaz walks through the he's
the one who walks through the house with
a structural engineer so he has direct
information about the
report uh firsthand information about
the observations and the report so I
don't know how you feel about that but
that or if we table this to the end of
the agenda would your engineer be able
to make it here he lives in Sunbury I
don't know I'm just asking I I would
request that hear from the other board
members because again we had we
discussed we had a conversation about Mr
Livy's letter um the other reports so I
I I I don't see how breaking the
president that we've already set with
this applicant changing it tonight
making someone come that we didn't
request seems to me unfair but I would
definitely need to want to hear from
other board
members is everyone on the board okay
with that I'm okay yeah unless there's
something that legally we have to adhere
to I'm fine with just the letters that
we have I'm very comfortable with that
actually are you okay with that Mr
H uh I am not sure that I understand all
the legal ramifications of this letter
being signed stealed you know uh and
admissible or not um I read through the
report several times and I see a lot of
factual information and an opinion uh
about how to remedy what the engineer
fields are the issues so I don't there's
nothing that is
um that could not be discussed in in my
opinion
okay okay so if it's all right rather
than going to the board let's go ahead
and let all the applicants and the
audience um present their information
and then we'll go to board questions is
that is that
okay I have one other request Kyle Katz
is here a neighbor within the right
District
to support our project and he's waited
all this time could he go first yes yes
feel
free thank you chairwoman we we need to
swear you in first
please I'll be very brief my name is
Kyle Katz for those of you that I don't
know I live at 271 North Columbia just
caddy corner to this house I grew up and
have lived within one block of this
house for nearly 30 years I've raised
five children within one block of this
house my sister's raised six children
within one block of this house my wife
and I were married in a backyard one
property away from this house I say
these things to
illustrate how important the slice of
Bexley has been to my family and to me
for generations and hopefully the
decades to come for a living I invest in
commercial real estate and when the
project is right I act as a developer
the projects I developed typically
involve adaptive reuse to existing
properties so preservation is my natural
instinct and I like you have experienced
as someone responsible for decisions
that shape our community I served 18
years on the Columbus downtown
commission where I always tried to
exercise sensitivity to context design
into highest and best use I love this
street I love great old buildings and I
fight to preserve them when it's right
uh but I support the demolition of this
property based on its replacement thank
you all for the time you dedicate to our
community it's really appreciate it
thank
you thank
you okay are there any other is there
anyone else from your team that you
would like to speak no it's just that I
thought uh Joe kusman letter was pretty
interesting and I thought it be
interesting if
he's yeah talked about it well yeah but
is there anyone else from your side
first well uh yeah uh if you if we have
questions a little bit about the
engineering report and these like those
four possibilities of
uh a chance to like repair the problem I
think I'd like yoaz to be able to speak
to that because he's bought through a
lot of the specific issues with the four
suggestions that the engineer had but in
the meantime I I
will um just go into my presentation
then okay okay so um and so well you
already heard my discussion about
architectural significance are you going
to go ahead and vote on that
first I mean it seems to me
that yeah so so your presentation then
is is is about what well I'm just saying
to me the trump card here is this this
terrible economic hardship
that that uh preserving this house would
take and
so uh or would create
so I I'm
thinking if there's economic hardship it
doesn't matter what you vote on as far
as architectural significance because
this will this to me trumps the
architectural significance I mean you're
going to go down to the next category so
if you guys want to decide if it's
architecturally significant you know
that we do not feel it is and I think
Joe's and I felt like Joe's letter
supported our point of
view let let's let Joe go next can we
see if there's any public other public
that are right yeah there anyone else in
the audience that wants to speak about
this application close that out I will
can I mention that we didn't ask a lot
of the Neighbors come again this month
but if you've all heard their testimony
from last month you know how you know
that every person that lives on this
block feels the house should come
down okay thank you okay um Mr kusman
are you
uh
great up you're up thank you for coming
very much we great
appreciate please state your name Joe
kpen you Solly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth I do thank
you do you want to give us any more uh
we've already read your letter do you
want to give us any more information or
would you like us just go straight to
questions yeah I I mean in terms of its
significance I think I made the
statement that I guess I can now add no
mus an expert to my resume but
um and having lived in his his own house
for 15 years his work is rather spotty
in quality and the variety of uh
stylistic approaches he often took it's
kind of amazing that he was an
apprentice of Rights for two years and
yet his own house didn't even have a
fireplace which for me would be the
essence of a right house uh so it's kind
of funny and I told you the house that I
aided the Rigsby's with 25 years ago in
Arlington look nothing like my house or
the house in question here or any of the
other houses of his that I know so in
terms of this being an example of nobe
M's work I wouldn't it's not an
exemplary example
uh that being said the structural issue
for me was kind of the the trump card as
it probably is for everybody in the room
if that's really the the truth uh and as
I said I didn't personally see that but
that I am not a structural
engineer and you know we Architects deal
in subjectivity and they deal in
objectivity and so I defer to
objectivity on on something like that uh
but I you know I don't believe this is
some consist an example of what his work
was uh that doesn't mean that John or
myself or any of the Architects on this
board couldn't turn that house into an
absolutely wonderful house few skylights
here and there few changes here and
there open up the staircase a little
more light you have a really delightful
house so uh from that standpoint uh I I
would think it's it's salvageable but if
this structural issue is really the case
I mean you're not going to easily Jack
that house up
20 inches or something like it would
have to be to meet present day code so
uh and I know that's really not the
issue you're looking for but in terms of
its architectural significance as I mean
I'm a strong Advocate I'm obviously
anyone who knows me knows I'm anti-d
Demolition and uh my my wife back here
even initiated this whole ordinance 15
years ago or something with Bexley
because we didn't have anything like
this when I was on the board uh so from
that standpoint and and I'm a
wonderful modern architecture is very
wonderful we don't have a whole lot of
it here in Bexley at least in terms of
mid-century modern uh and so I I hate to
see us lose an example of it but again
this is certainly not the the poster
child for mid-century modern
architecture uh in in my opinion so from
that standpoint I don't really believe
it particularly meets the
criteria and so what you saw when you
walked through did you you see um
examples of the problems that they're
that this that they're in no but I
didn't have a flashlight and I was very
briefly there and again it's simply as I
said the other that's not my
wheelhouse uh the house we're in now the
very first thing I did was get Rick
gears from derer and EG gears over to
the house and tell me it's not going to
fall down into the creek down here we
can trust his opinion too so and how to
shore up some of the sagging roof
structure Etc so I mean that that's the
the one thing you can fix everything
above the ground but if you don't have a
good foundation you wasted all of your
money so uh from that standpoint as I
said but I do think the house could be
this issue aside structural issue I
think it could be made into a really
wonderful house uh but that being said
it's the structural issue is the
problematic thing here
okay are there board members that would
like to ask questions
of how do I ask this
um in general
under as a I know how to ask this
question because it's it's it's hard to
compare but a significant architect that
has made an impact on a
community if he has 20 homes 20 projects
that he's done and we rank those
projects uh in its order of significance
you know how many can be demoed before
we say Okay myth now the bad ones are
gone and we can keep
these that doesn't necessarily apply
here of course but it's a it's a pH
philosophical question I've been dealing
with over on this property because um
repeatedly we've all heard from
different people that um and
professionals and Architects and
Engineers of the that this house in the
portfolio of this architect was
nearly as successful as others that he
has done for many different reasons and
we're not here to debate those reasons
other than uh it's a property that
exists and it has history and and and
not all Architects are famous or at
least semi famous so um to me that
brings up a discussion of well how many
are we okay with de demolishing before
we say okay we we shouldn't tear it down
any more rights projects we we not
enough and we need to keep a couple uh
again you don't I'm not comparing the
two but um there are significant amount
of homes and properties in this
community that are significant some are
historical uh and we could easily argue
in favor uh there are some that Fallen
that graze them but for our first step
here as the board it's historically
historically or architecturally
significant and it it may we may find
and I think that's what we're going to
be voting on we may find that I just
have it just makes me a little sour in
my stomach architectural stomach to uh
to know the history of the architect uh
the the influence he's had in in these
neighborhoods and I'm curious if you
have a response because it's not really
a question in the theory of you know how
many are we okay with taking down
before in the in the preservation side
of architecture this house specifically
and the structuring things that we not
we're going to get into is separate
um I'm curious because I got your letter
was on both sides of the fence yeah
right and I you said that tonight so
it's not an argument and it's more of a
open conversation uh and and I don't
have an answer for myself of like how
many are we okay with uh is the answer
none is the answer for and I don't think
there's a number to it of course it's
just each individual cases is has to be
determined uh by it by itself but in the
end as a board we do have a holistic
look at the community and it's not an
individual house it's it's it's it's the
community um and again it's very complex
there many factors so uh maybe I'm just
rambling on and not looking for an
answer from you but uh I thought that
was important to say at this juncture
because of of the topic that we are at
number one historically or articially
significant uh I don't know how I think
historically we could easily address
that as the historic nature of the
property there's some ownership history
there and uh but I think architecturally
significance is something that's much
more uh of a debate here tonight so
you know and I again I I think the house
is worthy of preservation the structural
issue aside and I don't know that the
structural issue as I said I looked at
it and didn't see anything but it's
simply not my area of expertise and in
terms of my rendering any decision I I
don't have a
vote thank thank you I don't but you but
you have served on this side of the
table so you understand you know and you
mentioned that you've had a process of
starting this type of a program to make
sure there was a process by which we
evaluated these yeah I mean we also had
criteria in there about whe who who
lived in the house I I remember when we
were first discussing this with city
council Etc I mentioned the dumpiest
Little House you've ever seen is just
North of that house it was RL Stein's
house that he grew up in now if you
don't have kids you may not know who he
is but uh is that house worthy of
preservation because of F You Know Abe
Lincoln grew up in a log cabin that we
preserved those things so that's another
category and this has a prominent
Columbus
family that lived in this house and
commissioned this house so from that
criteria yes it's important uh and as I
said is it
necessarily the poster boy for
midcentury modern
architecture objectively and under oath
I I I would say no can it be made so yes
uh and I thought some of Rob's comments
about ceiling height I mean the house
I'm in now has a seven have seven foot
ceilings and about half of it because it
was another right Apprentice house and
it's the most wonderful place I've ever
lived in so I I you know that that to me
was a little bit of a mood Point uh but
I do think it it's it it is significant
from that standpoint but I was trying to
sort of not just address this issue unto
itself I sort of intermingled the
structural part of it and uh saw that as
kind of a deal breaker and approached it
like if it were me I wouldn't do it
but but it may be that it can be remedy
I I just I I personally didn't see
anything but I didn't have a flashlight
and I'm not an expert at that and I
don't pretend to be in any
way all right well anything
else thank you thank you so much okay my
pleasure appreciate your
time and
efforts so
uh any other questions any other
comments I think uh so do we need to
vote then on to go through the board to
vote on whether we think it does it is
significant so that we can then figure
out where we're going from there that's
what I would suggest because it's it's
really a two-factor criteria if it's not
historically
or architecturally
significant um and and worthy of
preservation you you know you don't have
to get to structural Integrity I don't
think um because then it's a it's just a
replacement home if you find that then
the structural integrity and whether
it's you know able to be preserved and I
think Karen did a good job of sort of
outlining what those considerations are
when you look at you're sort of in the
middle of the box and if if you find
that it is architecturally significant
then you move onto whether or not um
it's can be preserved if you don't find
that it's historically architecturally
significant you know it's can be
replaced it's the way the codee's
written so is that something where Kathy
calls the
role sure I think you'd have motion and
discussion and then there would be a
roll call vote on that issue that sort
of helps you know where you go next
because if you don't think it's
historically and architectur
significant then all of these other
issues about structural Integrity are
less important um if you do think that
that's right then the structural
Integrity is what you have to be
considering so are there board members
who would like to discuss
this okay Mr
Hall so I've been you know I wasn't at
the last meeting but I did listen to all
the comments and everything I just want
you to hear that from me um I spent some
time walking around this house looking
at the house peeking in the windows and
doing some things and and I want to be
blun I do think it is architecturally
significant I think it is relevant I
think the idea that the Lazarus family
commissioned this house um from an
individual who and I'll be honest
frankly I'm not a central Ohio guy so I
I don't know who who this person is but
I made an attempt to study his work the
house that's down on Clifton is
phenomenal to me first time I saw it it
was
breathtaking um and thank thank goodness
we have people that see that and are
willing to invest in that and um
preserve that and that's going to lead
me to my next statement is that um you
know in terms of this flowchart in terms
of the process we need to go through I
do think it's historically relevant I
think it takes a special person a
special owner that wants to take on a
project like this and wants to move
forward with it um and it's obvious we
don't have that person so I um I don't
know what to do about that until we get
to the next step of this and everything
but um as I said I you know if I had the
money to do this um you know this would
be S you know a pet project to somebody
like me and I think it's unfortunate
that we are at the place we are tonight
because I agree with the comments
earlier when is enough enough um um I
think you can look around that
neighborhood I stood there and looked
around there's a lot of houses towering
over this I want to know from the
Lazarus family why this house why' you
do this all these other houses existed
here to me that's a great story and I
think it's unfortunate that you know we
just had person come in here and say
yeah it's not the best but can you
improve it put skylights in there's
plenty of land next to it you can get
creative about it and really Embrace
what's there and I I truly believe that
so um in terms of the flow chart in
terms of where we got to start I do
think it's architecturally significant
I'm just going to leave it at
that Mr
H well I uh
enjoyed last month's meeting very much
on my computer um I wasn't able to be
here I'm sorry I had a another
commitment um but I did get to listen
and I enjoyed all of the discussion
honestly because I think all of this is
helping us to gain better Clarity on
what our demo ordinance really needs to
be um for the sake of our um residents
our applicants our historic preserv
ation uh aspirations
which um the city
has um for my part I'm here as a
professional architect I was asked to be
a member of this board because of my
expertise my experience my 27 28 years
practicing
architecture um I practice architecture
that is more traditional and not modern
but I have a deep appreciation for uh
historic
architecture uh whether it's you know 40
years old 30 years old or 120 or a
thousand years old um but I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna spend time tonight on my
Soap Box in any way
because um I really felt
that uh everything that needed to be
said really was said by Mr Scott and
Miss Tony in the previous review I
listened and I have to say that um I
thought that the comments that were made
by these two board members were
absolutely
brilliant and I thought to myself after
I listened to the to the recording that
I could not have said it better nor
would I want to repeat it because it's a
waste of everyone's time tonight for
that to happen
um so with that being said I do think
that the house is not only
architecturally significant but also
historically significant for the
architect and the history and I think
it's worthy of preservation for a number
of reasons which we may need to get into
in the next round here um but with that
being said
um there are a number of things that I
would like to see
change in how this process works
and I think I should State this for the
public and for the
record um but I I think that that this
this
process uh needs
further adjustment and
refinement um it it
really amazes
me
that the
applicant can be the architect who's
promote promoting a new design for the
for the property I'm talking about just
the demo it has nothing to do with the
quality of the design but I think this
is something the city needs to
reconsider why the applicant who
represents for this project or the demo
is the one who is promoting a new design
for the that to me is a conflict of
interest and it's nothing about the
design I think that John's designs are
beautiful but this is all about the demo
ordinance and how it's
written there's a conflict of interest
there for
me um I'd also like to ask the city
where and what is the status of the uh
historic preservation working group
because that is a commission that was
started before covid and would be the
ones to tackle this demo issue uh not
only for this property but for uh you
know projects in the future where this
this demolition is being requested the
ARB is a is a bunch of Architects and
planners and designers who have specific
expertise on architectural
design and a historic preservation
working group would be more appropriate
for determining the demo ordinance and
it's how it's going to be developed but
I would like to ask the city and the
mayor where is the historic preservation
working group now
those are my
comments Mr Scott I too think uh this
project has archal significance and a
history um and is is worthy of the
discussion uh into what if it's worthy
of
preservation and I agree um I stated my
comments last month and feel even more
strongly about it uh as I have had time
to think about it so so um I think at
this point we have all board members
agreeing that the that the the home is
um significant Madam chair I'd call for
a motion to state that we as a board
think this is historically or
architecturally significant
project I second
yes
yes okay so now that we have established
that you can go to step two right which
is more information that you want to
present yeah the
uh okay so we decided okay so we're
going right to the economic hardship
right
issues yeah you can address if you look
at the chart to the right I mean this is
just following the demolition orament so
if it is historic if it's determined
historically are architectually
significant worthy of preservation then
we look at this criteria right
okay excuse
meor I'm sorry can we move up a little
bit so there's five criteria there age
of and condition quality significance
okay great yeah that so we got this so
now it's economic hardship or unusual
compelling circumstances thankk you so
uh I want to go D immediately to the
engineers report and so and and really
in reference to what Mr Hall
said uh if it were a matter of putting
in some skylights or renovating the
house that would be one issue
that's if if you read this report
carefully that's not really the problem
we're dealing with the problem we're
dealing with is no ver mus first of all
design the house very low can you pull
up that this this
drawing John is it built the way it was
drawn
no no but I mean it's similar but I I
haven't
mared you see
that can you pull the microphone over
just so we can
keep heign he
well I'll just I can reach so he
designed he designed look right here he
designed this to be level with the plate
of course that is totally against code
now even with this brick veneer it
should be down
here now the grade actually is I would
say at least this high so that much of
the foundation that much of the wood
bearing is under the Earth and it's been
that way I assume for close to 70 years
or maybe a little bit less but it's been
that way a long time and what is that
six
inches it is well uh this is yeah this
is six inches
here uh at least at this one spot I'd
say it's at least six inches it
definitely varies around the house a
little bit but it's it's I I'd say six
inches might be an
average and of course this uh Rim board
and this plate and this floor joist all
around the house is
rotted so it's not only that doesn't
meet code it's also you see the effects
of not meeting a code that's put in
place for a
reason so so this so that's supporting
the entire house so why didn't we see
that when we walked around main mainly
because well you first of all you have
pictures in in the report
or and we can pull those up but uh
mainly because the house is mostly c
space so you'd have to crawl back into
the crawl space where some of these
pictures are taken to actually see those
rotted those rotted Flor Droids that the
engineer has documented so where we were
in the basement looking at the basement
that's that's not the condition in the
basement it actually is in the one wall
where there was a window but you know
there's some ceiling in there there's
duct work there's pipes it really is
hard to see unless you really go and
look at that and look at that uh detail
pretty closely like the engineer and
yoaz did uh
so here's the issue so you don't the I
mean you could say well code has changed
so maybe an old house doesn't meet code
this is not only it happens to be a code
problem but it's a real problem this
house is this house uh has a faulty uh
first floor and a faulty bearing walls
so the
engineer
uh the engineer
um went through this whole analysis and
showed a lot of pictures and specific he
also shows some other
problems some cracks some things I make
on those things I might agree with Mr
Hall that maybe okay you you could fix a
few
things this he gave us four
choices of how to fix this one two 3
I'll go I'll go through one two three
and for one raise the entire house and I
think Mr kusin mentioned this in his
letter but
uh that's a theoretical possibility but
frankly it's kind of a ridiculous idea
no one is going to come in and raise is
this house a foot or a foot and a half
to get it high enough especially a house
of this shape you know a rectangular
house a rectangular frame house you
actually could lift I mean you could you
could support it this house J Jigs and
Jigs and Jags around some of it is is uh
is the whole back porch is slab on
grade uh
the there's an
attached to the house which is obviously
a slab I mean the idea that anyone in
their right mind would attempt to lift
this house is pretty ridiculous what
about a portion of it if you said okay
we we can lift a portion of it we can
fix a portion of it and we will renovate
the rest is that well you want to make
the floors uneven well I mean I mean
you're talking about the garage floor
and you wouldn't raise the garage FL you
know you wouldn't lift that so I'm just
but the roofs are tied in I mean okay so
but then I'm saying so you want to ruin
the architectural design to fix it right
I mean destroy what you're trying to
save this was this was sort of the
comments of the neighbors said after the
last meeting the board seems very
willing to let you remodel this house
and destroy the Integrity of what they
say they want to save so I think there's
the there's the there's the critical
thing really if if you're going to do
this right you better lift the whole
house and then what are you going to do
with the fireplace what are you going to
do with the chimney I mean yeah y has
thought through how you might do this
really it's
impossible in any kind of practical
terms and in any kind of reasonable
budget second second item lower the
grade on the entire lot now uh can we
pull the site plan down
be a uh
well
uh no then the the the site plan it's
like I think the it's in it's in the
package of
drawings
one okay so the r the proposed uh garage
is right the proposed G is Right
basically where the house is right now
so the according to the gis
map which is not completely accurate but
it's pretty much gives you a general
grading of the area this uh this lot and
the adjacent lot which is the large
house that John W CH chance he is buying
is at the same
level it's around uh
8048 or something like that
uh so the idea that you would drop the
lot now we're talking about dropping the
lot at least a foot and then we need
slope away from the
house code calls I have it in my in one
of the attachments codes calls for six
inches within the first 10 feet so now
we're talking about essentially 18
inches
well so that might bring the foundation
up out of the mo
moisture but now you're creating a hole
for the water to go into and this
particular
block and in this general area has a lot
of water problems already Cordy
westwater lives across the street her
her yard ducks land in the yard when it
rains they think it's on Pond she put in
three Sun Pumps to keep the water out of
her yard uh Beth Crane and Rich mck we
put in a uh a dryw and pump system there
over uh over for uh Chuck shank when he
lived on the next street we put in a
dryw for him the Huntington house we put
in a drywell system there is a high
water table in this area and the idea
of dropping dropping the grade in this
house when we're only what what's that
number we're only uh
30 feet from the other lot so that means
between the other lot which we're
obviously not going to drop the grd on
someone else's
property what are we what are we doing
we're creating a a slope directly from
all their water to into our house so to
me I mean it's a I suppose theoretically
it's a possibility like he put in the
letter but it's totally impractical and
can you imagine
regrading this entire lot and what this
house would look like with that I mean
it seems like another
impossibility the third his third one is
another okay it's a possibility but you
know you did you see our cost estimate
in here so we're talking about
renovation and addition to this house in
the $3 million
range would you put three Mill ion
doll on a foundation that you've only uh
fixed
temporarily who would do that what kind
of crazy person would invest that much
money in a project where you know you
haven't actually fixed the problem let
alone I really wonder if you'd even get
a building permit for that if you showed
if you showed those issues on your
drawings and then the fourth one is
probably the only real
realistic the only really realistic
option that we
have and it's demolition of the house
and
replacement and another and and I just
just to give this some perspective I
want to say this if this board requires
this property
owner to M to retain that house on that
lot
this letter with this report from the
engineer that would have to go to any
prospective buyers what is the value of
this property now i' say it's
zero you've reduced value of this
property to zero which I think would be
illegal for this board to
do so I can go through some of the
supporting documents but that's
my Essential
argument okay thank you um so are there
board members that would like to ask
questions Madam shair I would request
that this board in individually address
in order each of the first three
criteria of the evaluation of
substantial economic hardship something
that we can eat all comment on and maybe
agree with or disagree with on each line
item I just go through through this
methodically and then or because it's
either it's an or condition here so
here's the first three I think we should
go through these and then go through
these as
well based on the ordinance that we have
to follow for this criteria well if
you're going to do that I mean we have
some other comments on some of those
other things I just think this is the
trump card well I think I and I agree
and I I think we will allow you to speak
at maybe at each time okay unless Madam
sure you have a different format but I I
don't know how else personally to kind
of go through this because I think each
one of us will have comments and
opinions on each one of these items and
at that time I would' like to hear from
you I that's great wherever you'd like
to proceed yeah would you like to go
first then Mr
Scott I would love
to so under the additional criteria to
determine cause of demolition evaluation
of substantial economic hardship item
number one the reduction of property
value um so I have been through this
house um I have obviously gave my
opinion on some of the previous in the
previous meeting about the design and
the importance and we've obviously here
this particular point of of order but it
it is my belief that in its current
state uh the house is going to continue
to be uh will reduce value with its
conditional wear um I did notice water
infiltration um in the property the
structural the struct stral um letter
confirms this but the structural letter
also says that in the future it will
have structural issues it does not have
structural issues currently um but I do
believe uh that it is my position that
this number one reduction of property
value is a factor in this consideration
and that this property will not gain V
value without significant
improvements is there board member that
would like to speak to number
one I'll just say I concur with
everything Pete said so I mean I really
do it
is and Mr
hire uh well this is this is my problem
with how this works the reduction of
property value is a gas right even if it
we know 99% that this would happen that
they would economically if we don't fix
the problems that it's going to
economically lose I've seen properties
in Georgetown that don't they actually
go
up because people are going to get a
better
sale okay so it's not always the case
that a house that's deteriorating is
necessarily going to make a reduction in
the property value
and I'm not an expert so why is why are
ARB members asked to make that
determination that's my problem with
this um in general if you I would say I
would agree but there are cases where
that is not the case so we we could also
in consideration the land value will not
go down the land value will always go up
right right so we should be considering
that and that's a consideration too but
it's not there's so many factors and
comps that go into something like this
that are not the purview of our
expertise my opinion was specifically
related to the structure
itself okay but the the land
value is completely tied into whether
this house has to be there or not I mean
just I said before that the land value
is high if if you have flexibility with
the house if you have no flexibility
with the house I I I'm I'm on the record
it's
zero because no one's going to take on
this renovation with this
report okay I I also struggle because
this board I I'm not a real estate agent
I have no idea what you paid for that I
know that house did not go on the
market I assume you had a um an
evaluation of the house an inspection of
the house as part of the sale did you
have an inspector in there no I didn't
because the
lady the lady that was there you
couldn't get into the house it was
basically like almost a curb offer and
we thought we could fix the house we
walked in there one time and you know we
didn't know all the problems that the
engineer found but we saw the other bit
of water we thought we could fix this
you know just like the board members
probably thought well you know but it
wasn't the case we on my on my original
comments I mentioned that the low one of
the my comments was the low
the the height of the house we s sued
there would be something some issue but
we certainly didn't know the impact of
it until we got this report so the
overall height of the house no the no
you know my my that list I made of the
of my criteria I we said the house sits
very low and we knew that that could be
some kind of problem but we thought it
would be a solvable problem you know
chair
yeah again I struggle to be the person
that evaluates the value of a property
that never went on the
market well but I don't think that's the
issue so much it's the relative value I
mean again the issue
is the economic hardship that you'd
impose on the owner to make them keep
the house so that is not real estate
that is this that that's not really real
estate think I mean I tell you it would
be different though if John if he were
here saying this is my house I've lived
in it and now I don't know what to do
with it but when you buy it as an
investment then I I have a problem that
you that you now want us to become real
estate agents and and talk and then talk
about hardship you know you're buying
this property to make money you know and
so that to me is where I feel like I'm
supposed to be evaluating that as a as a
thing when well we have our realtor here
and we have our realtor here and we
could she's willing to testify about the
value of a the value of this house has
there been a history of documented loss
of value on this property this house
hasn't changed hand since 1953 so I mean
I'm just I'm just it figure there's it
was built so I guess there was no
history for Catherine yeah this doesn't
have to satisfy every one of these
correct it does not no these are these
are no criteria so we can side note that
some board members do not feel they have
the expertise for this particular one
and move on well and some of this is
based on the evidence that's presented
to them I mean the burden is on the
applicant to provide evidence about
whether these criteria are met so if you
feel like that hasn't been provided um
you know if you feel like the
engineering report and the testimony
about the condition of the house and you
know whether or not it could be salvaged
doesn't have any impact on value then
that's up to you they're not asking you
to be a realtor the question is whether
or not there's a substantial economic
hardship and whether or not you believe
there's going to be a reduction of
property value based on house and its
preservation that's really the issue
that's part of my problem is that
everything that gets presented by the
applicant is part of the applicant's
agenda yes so you know I would I would
love to have somebody that I feel I mean
I I do think that Joe husband was a a
neutral party but I mean I feel like in
a case like this this house deserves to
have a neutral person come in and do an
evaluation if we need to know property
value let's have a neutral person
evaluate it I understand we have a
realtor here but she's your
realtor yeah but she's GNA give you well
I mean that's but that's here's not the
way it works it's up to the applicant to
present evidence um and you can either
accept it or not accept it or determine
the credibility of the person who's
testifying but they're entitled to
present their case and present evidence
on how they think the factors are met
you can have evidence to the contrary
from Neighbors or others if the board
wants to get a structural engineer they
can request that the city do that um if
you want to do that but that's I mean
you're
really you you it's up to the board to
decide the case based on the evidence
before you based on what's presented to
you you can weigh The credibility of
witnesses or not you know and decide
whether you find them credible just
because it's a witness for the applicant
doesn't mean that they're biased for the
applicant I mean people hire experts all
the time Structural Engineers architects
who you can't presume just because they
have an opinion that supports their case
that it's a biased person then why do I
feel like we have a plaintiff but no
defendant because nobody's opposing it
but the but who who would do that well
the who's goingon to hire the
engineer of the city permit the board to
have to hire experts if it will help you
evaluate your opinion the the the city
typically would not hire an engineer if
you deter it would not be necessary if
there was no historic preservation if
you didn't determine it was historically
significant whether or not that it was
structurally able to be whether you
don't even get into these additional
criteria on on economic hardship
compelling circumstances structure of
the property until you determine whether
it has historic significance or not your
determination was it does now we're into
those criteria if you feel that you
don't have the enough evidence before
you then there is a provision in the
ordinance that allows the board to
request that the city obtain an expert
and provide an additional report but I I
don't think that that is based solely on
the fact that there's nobody presenting
anything else if you found that the
expert was qualified and rendered an
opinion that's supportable based on what
they observed then that is credible
evidence just because somebody else
doesn't have a different opinion doesn't
make it not credible I mean I I find it
very compelling you have you have a a
big team and you all have you know like
very compelling arguments but in the
back of my mind I would not be
comfortable approving this demolition
until we had someone else come in and
look at it that was n part of the
team I think that's the only way I would
feel comfortable and I don't know how
other board members feel but I mean we
can go down and discuss number two and
number three but I'm I'm not a
restoration you know I don't know costs
I don't I don't I'm not an expert on
this and so well that's why they present
evidence that's why evidence is
presented to you on that on costs on you
know why a structural engineer has an
opinion and looks at the property and
investigates the property all of that is
evidence before this board that you
weigh and
consider um if if we did that though
Katherine realistically we would we
would have to approve every demolition
that ever came before us because they
have compelling Arguments for all of
it so and and I stated in the last
meeting I've never voted against one but
this is the first time I've had number
one saying that this building is
significant and so I feel like from my
perspective the city needs to help this
board determine from a neutral s well I
would suggest what the structural
problem is hear all of the evidence that
they have today and then if you as a
board determine that you want an
independent report to help you make your
decision then request that the city
provide it to you do do other board
members feel
similar I feel we should make a request
for other we we've seen a structural
report from the
applicant uh we have not seen uh I mean
I made my official request about the
reduction of property value uh but
unreasonable maintenance cost we've no
se not seen a maintenance cost like when
we sometimes we look at tile roots or
slate Roots sorry Replacements we're
looking at replacement costs and we can
evaluate that replacement I haven't I
don't believe I've seen a un you know
maintenance cost you in this application
which may be kind of impossible to
really look at uh that preservation or
restoration imposes unreasonable cost I
think that falls right in line with this
topic of how we don't know what that
cost is um I think there could be some
discussions about raising the house as
you mentioned tonight of in one of the
structural uh Solutions uh proposed by
your engineer um but we wouldn't know
that maybe the contractor could could
could sement that so I think the issue
is we we're not seeing that being
submitted by the applicant uh we we have
seen that part two or I don't know if
it's it's the or uh number one um we've
seen the two number two in the new
design uh we've talked last meeting
about number three the replacement plan
is more contextually compatible though
that may be arguable with some other
members here tonight um and the existing
structure has adverse effects on
neighbors I I've have heard support of
the demolition for the new house but not
that the existing house has adverse
effect so all of that
in my opinion we haven't seen a lot of
these but we don't need all of them to
be fulfilled or met uh really the only
one I the few that I see that are topics
tonight the structur structural
feasibility uh in that report and then
of course some of the other items that
two three and four um or maybe just two
and
three well the one thing I say about
this whole discussion is I think the
documentation you have in front of us
now we didn't falsify these photos right
I mean these are photos of the house
agreed and the the engineer is a
registered engineer right a professional
engineer stamped the drawing put his
reputation on the line and has given you
the and was very thorough and giving you
four criteria to fix this
now at some point we have to just rely
on Common
Sense can anyone imagine raising the
house or lowering the site on the entire
lowering the site all around the house
and basically re reciting the house
which is already fairly a fairly flat
site so I don't know it seems to me like
you really want someone else to come in
and say what is basically
common sense that you can't just rely on
your own common sense to evaluate this
information I don't know I find that
kind of shocking well I would like to
say that I deal with historic structures
in my business and I deal with Engineers
who do
reports our office does historic
structure
assessments and I work I worked I've
worked with WJ you know out of their
multiple offices on structures in
Chicago and col I don't want I don't
think have to go through my resume here
to to have some kind of authority to say
that what I'm seeing in this in these
photos and in this report is not
the uh dire situation that you're that
you're talking about he he clearly says
below are several ways to address the
water damaged structural components that
is very clever language because he's not
saying below are the only ways to
address the water damage structure
components he's giving you three options
if I want to stop the world from warming
you know do I just well we're going to
get rid of all uh cars that are run on
you know on on gasoline that's a
solution of course all of these read to
me like those kind of solutions um also
this detail with a stem wall with brick
in front of a sill and framing is a
common detail even when the grade is
above it the landing that goes into a
basement has framing that ties into a
wall That's below grade is that does
that not meet code Maybe not today but
back then this was common and there are
houses throughout Bexley that have floor
joists that are set below grade and it
is not uncommon it is fixable and from
my tour of the house with my flashlight
the Damage Done is minimal and
repairable and I that's why I would you
know my testimony obviously is not good
enough so we need to hire another uh
second opinion to come in to counter the
engineers's report or at least give us
another opinion because what I'm saying
is not good enough so that's my problem
with this process is there are people on
this board that have expertise and we
could say that this is an interesting
report but we don't agree with it okay
so now I have to hire another engineer
because that's not that's not good
enough if that's what you feel you need
I think that is what you need to do I
mean I I was for Kathy and I were
involved in writing this years and years
ago and I think this is exactly the body
that should be determining this but
we're not asking you to be a
professional realtor or cost estimator
or structural engineer we're just saying
given the evidence do you feel
comfortable with any of these Mr Scott
said yes on one somebody might say no on
one so go through them and at the end if
you don't have enough evidence for all
these seven criteria that just one can
can be a case for demolition which is
fine you can say that it's not worthy
but if you don't feel like you have
enough information then you just need to
ask staff to provide it and table the
case and we'll get a structural engineer
to do another report or a realtor or
whatever other professional I mean I I I
take a little exception to that the
process is a problem because we've
worked years and years and years on this
and you have to have the decision made
at one body there's just no other way to
do it you can't have the decision all
over the place with different bodies but
and but but that's not what the that's
not what the historic preservation I
don't want to get off on a tangent on
this but that is not the way the city
was discussing historic preservation
working group so there there there were
other things on the table for that in
terms of who makes these decisions I'm
just that's all I'm saying the working
group is a working group this is the
structure that we're working in her I
understand well and what I also want to
say is you know the the
this is the decision-making board on
this issue and your obligation is to
apply the ordinance to the evidence
that's before you and make a decision
you're not supposed to be making a case
for or against demolition you're
supposed to be applying the evidence the
the ordinance does afford you to ask to
have experts you know provide to the
board additional information if you
think it would be helpful in reaching
your decision you're actually one of the
only boards that is allowed to do that
in back
um so you can do that but the object of
that is is typically if you need
additional information to make your
decision not to allow the board to
develop a case for or against an
application if you really believe that
you do not have sufficient evidence
before you and it's not adequate getting
all the criteria and all the fact
factors that you're obligated to provide
then ask for it but if it's just because
you you don't want to see Demolition and
you feel like somebody should make a
case against it that is an inappropriate
that's not what I'm that's not what I'm
saying which is fine I I'm just I just
want to make it very clear it's not the
job of the board to make it make a case
for or against is to listen to the
evidence gather additional EV evidence
if you need it and then make a decision
my my my frustration over this process
is that the evidence that could be
brought before this board for reduction
of property value for unreasonable
maintenance cost for restoration
preservation imposing unreasonable cost
for structural not being feasible uh
replacement plan is superior to that one
is that one we could um that's something
that the ARB I think feels pretty we
could deal with that one uh but the
others the information that we're
getting and how we assess
that um is a to me it's a black hole
because you can use any chart Excel
spreadsheet whatever ever you want you
can manipulate it for what the the
answers you want for those kind of
Economic and property value things so
that's really hard to put pressure on an
architecture review board to deal with
those kind of oh now I have to judge
that what I'm seeing in this report or
in these numbers is actually
reasonable or you can table it and ask
for the city to hire their own
professionals thank you that's my point
yeah I guess I just wanted I I'm here to
to say that these are the issues that we
I grapple with personally over making
these decisions and I don't think it's
fair to the city or to the applicants or
the homeowners that you know we we are
stuck in this gray Zone over you know
the information and the evidence that's
brought before
us oh I'm can to make one comment on
that and that is your whole decision on
whether the
uh place is architecturally significant
or not is a subjective decision and
these are also all subjective decisions
no matter what data we give you no
matter what data is presented it's still
a subjective
evaluation of some kind of information
so this is why I'm saying I hope the
board relies on common sense because in
the end that is really the only thing
you have to work with
so I did too pick up on the structural
report where it said it there were
several
ways
um I don't think you know I don't think
the house is going to fall down he
basically says that in his report I
don't think regrading around the house
is too extreme you make it sound like
it's this big project like we're going
to have to like take it all away you
know do all this the water damage is
only in certain areas so what that tells
me is you can get creative in certain
areas around the house and rework the
grading and potentially improve on this
so I don't I don't I don't see this
report as a as an excuse that's not what
he said he said it's all over the house
okay put perimeter but you could put
perimeter drains in and everything like
that I have a question for you're the
homeowner right so you bought the house
when you bought the house what was your
intent well my wife she uh she was grew
up you know not very far from this house
and she have to play tennis as a child
so we thought well we can fix this and
then you know we we love the property
she loved the property she she grew up
there she loved the property she knows
the property her sister lives across the
street so we didn't really know what to
do we just wanted to buy it because we
thought we can either fix it if if it's
fixable and if we you know we can make
it work or we can do something else if
it doesn't work and as we looked at cost
of fixing it and then we looked at the
problems that we saw and once we got it
it we couldn't really go in the
house freely and and actually expected
but we we thought we could either fix it
or if we can't fix it then then we'll
have to demo it but that wasn't the
first intent the first intent was to see
she loves the property she she wants to
live there so we want to we want to save
it you know but once we looked at the
cost of saving it and then we we looked
at the water intrusion we realize it's
not possible to save this house and by
the time you will do all that you will
be an astronomical number that we didn't
we didn't have and no we willing to pay
so to us it was no no deal but the time
we got it yeah it was too late but right
now we're looking at zero value for this
house if we can't demo it because like
John said we we will not be able to sell
this house to anyone because they're not
going to take on this project and when
you you say you can lower the grade no
you cannot lower the grade two feet even
even Mr cpin said the same thing you
will not be able to lower the grade the
three roots are going to be two feet out
of the out of the grade you will have to
destroy everything and this house will
look no I would I don't think you
understand the what you'd be looking
at you're you're lucky it doesn't have a
plaque on it that's all I have had to
say
yeah okay so how do you guys want to go
I
mean I mean I don't at this point
there's nothing up there that I'm an
expert on I I feel like the city needs
to hire at least a structural engineer
to come in and look at it on our behalf
and tell us you know and if it comes
back the same I'll feel differently than
I do tonight okay so I have so this I
have a question I'd like to consult with
my with the clients on this because do
we have the option of asking you to to
vote I believe you do of course okay
so so let me uh let me let me just
consult for a minute
see
Talking
wait can we can we continue this and
hear the people that are waiting they
have to wait till they come back in
two or
three I get
that I get one two
three but I don't
get so we
vote
Yes because that's what
he that first and name to the counil
expertise on
what it's ores no evidence no evidence
was submitted no evidence was submitted
for 12 when you vote that's what they're
gonna ask us to
do I think go through each one of those
and say it is not the structural thing
is
not you know whatever the replacement is
not Superior
that maybe
this I'm talk
about no but we haven't talked no
yes okay so here's what our preference
is we would rather the board vote and
then we'll take it to another group for
appeal uh we'll take it to bza for
appeal if if you vote if you vote
no okay and then I guess do we have to
come do we have to come back to get this
the new house
approved uh if bza approves the demo
okay but I think it'll put this one on
the consent
agenda our new house confidence the new
house I would I mad Madam share I would
before we move too much further uh there
has been some comments from other board
members tonight about the second
paragraph after the or I think unless
the applicant can and respond items one
two and three of the first first
evaluation of substantial economic
hardship hasn't been submitted to us
tonight there's been discussion about
that but evidence or estimates or other
aspects that we we have seen on other
projects in demolition uh we did not
receive so that and there's if there's
something like that
tonight well and we can talk about that
then
but then we can move to the second
because it's or but you know there's
there's a practical problem with that
discussion right first of all okay so
uh what's the first one up there it's
kind of covered the second but I mean
exactly what does it say so
reduction of property value
well I made the case that it is worth
zero but I mean okay you it's an opinion
but it's it's also our realtor's opinion
that this is this is zero and I think
again this is common sense right look at
that report if you you have to hand this
to a buyer right who is going to take
this on knowing that there there are
these problems well then why are you
afraid of us getting one more evaluation
I'm not I'm not I here's how I feel I
feel you have kind of made up your minds
already and I feel we'd be better off
with a different group of people who are
going to approach it more from a legal
point of view because to me to me this
is to me it would be illegal for you to
make us keep this house with these kinds
of problems it' be like forcing forcing
your V forcing you to lose a million
dollars right I don't think anyone has
stated up here that we would force you
to keep this house all we have said is
that we need more time and one more
evaluation yeah but I'm just saying but
but I'm not convinced that's going to
con that's going we I would like to get
the second we'll get another evaluation
or we'll work with the city I mean you
pick somebody and we'll pay you whatever
we'll get a second structal engineer but
I think we'd be better off with BC or
city council if we have to go that
far Mr Beall if you submitted costs I
think Karen said she got them today yeah
I'm looking at this yeah that should you
should probably go over that with the
board as well because they're talking
about what evidence haven't haven't
received please so what we do the new
house then uh to do an equivalent house
to the new house that we proposing we
went through now we did not do any this
does not include any cost to
remediate this problem which I feel is
basically impossible to remediate so I
don't know how you come up with a cost
and this is another practical problem
it's like okay we'd like to tear this
house down but we'd like to give you
we'd like you to give us a detail cost
for what it would take to raise the
house even though we're never going to
raise it because we're not doing that
and this is a really difficult thing to
price if if you could ever find anyone
willing to take it on but it's starts
with someone else looking at it and
saying yes there is a problem so okay
but do you think what do you think these
pictures are just just like ridiculously
fake pictures you see rotted wood at the
at the point of support of the building
so even if you had to even even if you
weren't going to lift it you still going
to rip out
all you're going to rip out all the all
the flooring all the structure Shore it
up replace the band board all the way
around replace replace the joist replace
the end Double Up the choice I mean are
you talking about another four
$400,000 I mean even that should shock
you guys Mr I'm going to suggest that
you present evidence not I mean not
argue with the board just present your
evidence and let them deliberate okay so
here we have the cost broken into so
we're trying to do an equivalent house
to the new house so the square footage
we actually would need a little bit more
square footage uh in the renovation
because we can't use so much of the
existing space efficiently so but it's
within 500 feet or something like that
and so that's is this based on your
client your the existing client's
program yes so if a new person looked at
the the house and had a different
program then this might not be well of
course yeah I mean I'm just saying
because but part of the part of the
comparison is how does it reflect how
does the how do these costs reflect on
the
on the renov the cost of renovation I
guess versus a new house right so if
you're talking about two equal houses so
you go down we did the renovation in a
couple
categories uh y ass worked on the cost
and then if you scroll
up uh I know who's controlling if you
scroll up you see then we divide it into
the uh that so those are finishes
clearly the house needs to the the class
would the house would go down to the
studs and be and be re renovated the uh
then there's a shell and finishes for
the
addition of the house and of course like
I have an idea I have a quick sketch of
what that would be too not it's not
ready it's not ready for presentation
but I went through the process of saying
what would we do to this house if if we
uh decided that we wanted to keep it so
I have a sketch that we took this off of
but
uh so then we're into so we're in three
two would you be willing to share that
no it's no it's uh it's too rough I did
it very quickly just to get my hands
around but you're talking to other
Architects yeah it's it's just it's it's
it's really not ready to show anybody
and I don't want to spend any more time
on it uh 3 so 3 milon2 to 3 million4
which frankly is more than the new house
would
cost so there's the hardship too it's
like okay you force us to renovate and
and to create the kind of house we
need and
it it's more expensive than the new
house so that's our that's that's that
data I think the the
uh let's see what else did we and you're
saying the difference is that total
right there no that no I didn't put the
cost of the we didn't put the cost of
the new house down but what are we
saying for the yeah two we said two
million so we put in two million could
be it could be two million two5 could
compared to 32 or 3
34 and frankly I'll just say this from
my experience and you know we've
renovated a hundred houses and back in
in 40 in my 42 years right 100 so you
know I know we know a lot about
renovation but and like to renovate
houses when we can right so the cost of
the cost of these Renovations is
exceeding new construction we just had
another client where we looked at the
numbers and uh not incly but we said
we're better off tearing it tearing down
and starting out so this is this is the
penalty you pay for fooling around with
old with old
work so that case let's
see I think the replacement plan is
superior to existing structure some of
you may like this house I would say my
new proposed house would not be a
tragedy for Beckley you know I think
it's a pretty nice house so I I I don't
see the
downside I think it I think it'd be
lovely and of course all the neighbors
want this
house not not the existing house and we
we we touched on I'm standing tired of
sitting uh we touched on that in the
last meeting that the other two board
members didn't get a chance to talk
about but the um you know the new house
is is submitted for evaluation in
relationship to the Demolition and the
we we had some discussion in our last
meeting about the the contextual
sighting of that house in relationship
to the um unique sighting of the
existing house not saying that one's
better than the other uh but part of
this review uh should be this board
should be considering that uh it doesn't
have to be one item or all that we agree
on but I would like to hear from because
I was pretty uh clear last meeting I I
want to repeat any of that uh your your
opinion on it I know there's many other
factors tonight that we talked about but
I think those two would be interesting
to have further discussion from Mr Hall
and Mr
hire he's got the sexy image again he
brought it
back I said that was not fair last
meeting no thank you yeah I have a
mental image of it
now very nice
rendering
so there is no doubt about that this is
a nice rendering this is a good-look
house and everything I'm sitting here
just wishing you would have gone to this
effort on the existing house we have a
document that outlines the cost and
everything you talk to you did a little
sketch on the back of a napkin get that
so you can you can do that
I it would benefit me a lot to just see
you go to that effort on that existing
house I think
it's I'm I'm really having a hard time
that we've we've gotten to this point on
this on this particular house and I know
we got process issues but it is
architecturally significant and it is
worth being
preserved um it's got a history to it as
I just said that we don't know what it
is I wish it had a plaque on it so we
wouldn't be here tonight the way the way
we are unfortunately it doesn't and I
don't think the due diligence has been
done to justify by tearing it down we've
got one structural report
that it's fine it it kind of says some
things but it doesn't say the house is
falling down it isn't currently falling
down it's not currently fall down and
it's been designed like this for 70
years so when I process that it's
existed like this for 70 years yeah and
that and the engineer and I talked about
that and here's the point there is
nothing it it's not failing at this
moment but we're talking about the next
70 years and are you going to invest the
money in in this faulty situation your
client bought a house that said that he
said they were going to come in and
renovate and I don't feel like that has
been completely explored graphically
drawing Wise It's been on a it's on a
sheet here I don't know what all these
numbers necessarily mean and and the
scope of work that's outlined for that I
I just don't feel like the due diligence
is there um to justify just moving right
on to this because you know it's
like yeah you know you want to go in
this direction is it contextually better
than the neighborhood absolutely will it
fit in better with the neighborhood
absolutely will it raise the property
the the amount of money you pay to build
this are you going to get it back
absolutely but that to me does not fully
justify tearing down this existing
house I don't feel like the
justification to get to tearing it down
has been completely done and there's
been a lot of design effort here this is
U I think the comment that was used in
the last meeting this is this is very
sexy it's very enticing yeah you know
and it's really easy to get here it's
too easy wasn't that easy design it's
beautiful too easy it takes a little bit
of talent all right sorry but it's but
it's but it's yeah we we should be
fighting for this to the point of we
can't fight
anymore I think I think for me it's more
safety you know I wouldn't risk my kids
to to be in a house that's not going to
be safe one day and I don't think you
guys want to take that legal obligation
either I mean if the damn thing falls
down with my kids in there you said it
was okay maybe the obligation is on you
legally because now it's not on me and
my engineer tells me it's not safe I'm
not putting my kid in that house you can
put your kid in gender every time you
want to but my kid is not going in that
house and I'm not spending any money
trying to fix something that's maybe
falls down one day so let's
let's I don't think it says that it's
not
safe if if it's structurally not sound
and we don't even see the back of the Jo
of the of the band board the rain board
we only see the front of it and we got
rotten wood in there and and the joys
are rotten I I don't think my kid's
going in that house your kid can go in
it fine my kid is not going in there and
and the person who ever going to buy
this house is not going to K his kid in
there so let's let's be careful what
we're doing here legally just just
remember that
okay is
there you say
something oh what am I commenting
on any of the other criteria um well I
think my assessment of this you know is
that the reduction of property value how
do we prove unreasonable maintenance
cost how do we
prove uh restoration preservation
imposes unreasonable costs how do you
prove that structurally not feasible by
what
criteria replacement plan is superior to
existing structure by what criteria and
in what
way um because you could use any
justification uh again totally
subjective right that's what we're
talking about here um replacement plan
more contextually compatible that's also
uh um as apples to oranges because I
could say that I prefer a mid-century
prairie style house context on the site
to a large you know 2024 house I could
say that right it's my opinion existing
structure has adverse effects on
neighbors also uh opinion of the the
neighbors so there's nothing in this
evaluation that I feel has strength to
make that evaluation for saving
historically or architecturally
significant and worthy of preservation
structure
I agree with all that and for
me you really only need to hit one of
these but I want to make sure that that
we hit it hard if if a second engineer
walks in there that is being paid by the
city and tells us that that that that
structure is going to fall down on
someone's head then I would give you my
vote to demo it because I don't that's
the last thing I want to happen so I
think that's that's what this board is
asking for is one more month of time and
uh and at least one engineer in there to
look at it so I'd still like to call for
a vote tonight
okay and if I just I just want to say
too John that you you know that Bap has
never gone against this board yeah but
you realize you know what that does to
this board if they do go against it well
I'll tell you you know I've had gone
through this before before this the
boards were divided up like this and I
went to city council and I got a
unanimous I got a unanimous yes vote at
city council overriding
B for a house on for a house on ridden
Road it never got torn down but uh but
city council city council will look at
this more from a legal point of view
than I think you are that's my point of
view I think you're looking at it so
clearly from your architectural point of
view board wishes that you would look at
it from an architect's point of view I
have I have and but I just think I think
to me I feel like another board is going
to look at this AR look at this
structural analysis we have and realize
that all the fixes are unreasonable
except the demo fix the demolition fix
that he suggested and but I'm not sure
I'm going to get that vote from this
board so I'd rather have another group
of people look at that
objectively and and see if we can see if
uh they
can we we basically go to a vote and as
we go to each member as you vote Yes or
no you state your reasons why because
that is the record that goes to Bap so
that they can understand what has
happened with this board they can also
go back and listen to these recordings
if they want real details but this what
how you um answer your reasonings for
your vote is very important and I just
have one clarification so you say that
only one of the seven needs to be met in
order to determine that cause of
demolition it's not true okay it's it's
a the the criteria are and either or by
sort of group Karen has them marked out
for you under the ordinance but the
ordinance says that these are the
criteria that shall be used by the board
in their consideration when if it
doesn't say all criteria must be bet
then you weigh the criteria and
determine whether you whether in your
opinion based on the evidence presented
to you they have been M but I I think
what
um when there's an appeal typically U
Bap and our Council would like to
understand the reasoning of the board
and your findings on the various
considerations so if you feel like some
of the criteria have not been met then
articulate that and let the board know
it when you make your decision because
they'll want to know that and once
you've made your decision I mean it goes
up to the board staff will report on
what it is but at that point you're you
know nobody's going to the board
to a member of this of ARB does not go
to bap bap is it's reported by staff and
then the applicant will do whatever so
it's important that you articulate your
findings as you're making them under the
ordinance and are we also able to say
that if um if it is approved like so
many things that go to beap it it will
come back to this
bo uh or at that point can bab take it
completely out of our hands right bab
could just decide but we can ask for it
to come back like we do um no if it
meets code I'm wrong but but also no
because ARB the architecture is within
your
jurisdiction demo is in your
jurisdiction but so is Architects so the
archit Dem but demo is also not approved
until the new design is approved that's
right and that's in your
jurisdiction yeah and and if this does
go vote to a vote and we have a 10-day
waiting period so it's not like this is
going to get on to the very next Board
of zoning and planning meeting so that's
going to be a month away whereas if the
city did get the evaluation from an
engineer paid for by the city that this
board could hear at the next meeting
which would happen before the next Board
of zoning appeal meeting you would
attend
and if it falls in your favor they could
go on to the design review so I would
consider that as
well I uh I want to go to
pza okay okay um so do we need to make a
motion then in the
affirmative okay so I need a board
member to make a motion to put it to a
vote
I will make that motion
higher second
Paul well I would suggest that you start
with you would make a motion that the
evaluation of substantial econom the
criteria for evaluation of substantial
economic hardship have been met doesn't
mean I mean you can vote against that
but it make it in the positive with the
second then talk about those criteria
since it's an either or then the the
second motion would be a motion that the
evaluation of unusual and compelling
circumstances have been met there would
be a second discuss it and vote you can
vote no and say why or yes and say
why okay what what's the difference
rather than just saying voting and then
going through one two three and one two
three4 and stating
why you can it's just clearer to me
typically from the record if you make a
motion on the criteria that you're
talking about because it's the criteria
are does it meet one two and
three or does it meet one two three and
four in Balance I will make the motion
that the additional criteria to
determine the cause for demolition being
the evaluation of substantial economic
hardship has been
met and then can someone second
that second
Hall hang on
okay
so I'm gonna call
roll do you want to have discussion on
the motion first and state your I think
as each person votes they State their
own go okay go to number one state why
you vote the way you do okay okay so I
will start with Mr hire
uh no not enough evidence uh need more
substantiation is that for all number
one two and three all one two and
three all right Mr
Scott
no no reduction of property value
evidence
submitted no unreasonable maintenance
cost uh short-term or long-term was
submitted what about number
three the probal cost of construction
for renovation in
addition uh has submitted
recently today or yesterday by the uh is
unclear as comparable to
the relationship of the new cost of
construction and to me isn't compelling
reason for meeting the economic hardship
criteria
okay and Mr
Hall no um there is I I don't feel like
there's been enough evidence presented
to show that there would be a reduction
in property value um I don't think
there's been enough evidence presented
for unreasonable maintenance
cost and the there was some cost
presented to us tonight um uh to to
restore and doing an
addition um however I
I'm the the the cost comparatively
speaking to the new house has not been
presented and there's not enough
evidence there to make a decision one
way or the
other
okay and Madame Tony
no I do not feel that they have shown um
that there is a reduction to the
property value I do not feel that they
have shown unreasonable uh maintenance
costs and I do not feel that they have
given us enough information to show that
the restoration preservation imposes
unreasonable
costs okay uh motion fails
okay now we have the uh second group do
I need a board member to make a motion
about the evaluation of unusual and
compelling circumstances I make a motion
that the additional criteria to
determine cause for demolition based on
evaluation of unusual and compelling
circumstances has been
met is there a
second a second Paul
I will call the
rooll Mr H higher no structurally not
feasible replacement plan is superior to
existing structure replacement plan more
contextually compatible existing
structure has adverse effect on
neighbors structurally not feasible uh
the criteria has not been
corroborated replacement plan is
superior to existing structure this is
um the criteria has not been set or
defined what Superior is replacement
plan more contextually compatible also
the criteria has not been set for what
more contextually compatible means
existing structure has adverse effect on
neighbors adverse can be positive or
negative therefore it fails
Mr Scott I would like to correct that
sorry existing structure had adverse the
word adverse does imply negativity that
has been presented but I feel it is
um uncorroborated or um
not substantial criteria for passing
Mr
Scott
no the structural structurally it's not
feasible um the structural letter looks
towards future conditions and not uh the
adverse existing conditions and has not
been collaborated by independent
structal
engineer replacement plan is superior to
the existing
structure what was that last statement I
was just reading the number two the
replacement plan is superior to the
existing structure is a subjective but
arguably um better contextual to the
neighboring properties uh though I don't
believe it's a strong enough argument
for the uniqueness of the existing
site number three replacement
plan I'm sorry the replacement plan is
superior to existing structure in which
I assume is related to design and
um maybe size it's unclear and I agree
with Mr hire uh that is sub subjective
and uh
not outweighing the decision replacement
plan for is more contextual and
compatible I would agree that it fits in
with the existing community and housing
but does not uh claim or or make a
statement that is the existing is
negatively impacting the neighborhood uh
and then number four the existing
structure had an adverse effect on
neighbors no evidence was submitted uh
on that other than opinion uh though I
do recognize that the a new structure on
this site would most likely improve the
property value of the ex surrounding
properties Mr
Hall no um number one structurally not
feasible um I don't think there was
sufficient evidence to show that it was
structurally not feasible in fact the
report said there were were offered
several suggestions that made it um that
made it feasible and um I I do think
that we would need an independent
another independent report not another I
I do think we need an independent report
to uh um to to justify the report that's
been given to
us uh replacement plan is superior to
the existing structure I think that's
again subjective because we haven't
evaluated the existing structure um from
a new design perspective we have not
seen I I don't feel like the due
diligence um to look at that and say
what can it be what can it look like um
has been done um in comparison to what
they are proposing for the replacement
and I think that fits into the uh the
next one about it being more uh
contextually
compatible um and then there there
really has not been any evidence
presented tonight that it has an adverse
effect on
neighbors Madam
attorney structurally not feasible um
did you g a vote oh I'm sorry
no I am voting no um structurally not
feasible uh again I've asked for a
simple
um second
opinion um that we could do in a timely
manner I think it's unreasonable that
the um applicant is not um willing to do
that uh the replacement plan is superior
to existing structure um it's not in Bar
M house so we only have three of them in
the in the city
and so that's I I would say no on that
replacement plan is more contextually
compatible um again I do not think that
that is a
uh um a true statement existing
structure has adverse effect on
neighbors um I don't believe that that
property has made anyone's property
values go down and so I would say no
proof has
been uh motion does not pass
okay is there a next step is there no no
more step we'll receive a copy of the
record of decision once that's uh
finalized so that record is is written
into the obviously the the meeting
minutes when when the meeting minutes
are presented to the board before the
next meeting for approval will it have
all of that or is it just going to say
no no no no it will okay great so we can
I mean I wrote down this stuff so you
know if we're called to be Bap for
whatever reason we
have
okay okay let's move on to our new
business application number arb2 24-12
address 2172 East living the applicant
is Eric Jennison the owner is Robert G
Dean Huffman the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval any a
certificate of appropriateness for an
addition to the front modifications and
a
variance from from the required set
front
setb just as a point of clarification
I'm not actually
seeking got to swear you in all that
stuff so sure all ille
can we
getar please state your name Eric
Jenison do you somly swear or from the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do thank you um
so just a couple quick points I think
the applicant was about to make uh
they've adjusted their buildings so
since the the notice went out they no
longer are seeking a variance for the
front yard setback for the um the
architecture uh since they are intending
to meet the 10 foot setback is that
correct that is correct yes um there is
it's a and I'll I'll have Karen talk
about the architectural portions it's a
little bit unusual in the fact that
there's an existing pad out there um
that they're basically building on top
of so then you can get into all those
details um there's just a couple quick
small uh site elements I wanted to to
touch on just so you understand the kind
of the overall parameters of of what's
happening on the site um if you can pop
up that site plan real quick Karen
that'd be great
um so right now the site technically it
has a curb cut on both Ferndale and
Livingston even though the Ferndale one
is essentially disused now you can see
they have parking spaces located in
front of that um so from a site plan
perspective the the one uh request that
we have is that um this is under the Cs
zoning which is the existing zoning on
Livingston Avenue um as you may may not
be aware there's been a process that the
city's been going through to uh attempt
to amend the zoning on Livingston Avenue
and that is still in process as we speak
this was filed under the Cs zoning so it
classifies in that there's not a lot of
standards in the Cs zoning um what is in
place is a uh a set of guidelines that
were put into the joint Livingston
Avenue plan a couple years ago and not
that we need to tax our brains anymore
after the last three hours um but if if
you think back Fair long um to when we
initially did the Main Street guidelines
as you recall those were just guidelines
for a long time for about 15 years and
what we would try to do when we applied
um review to Main Street was do our best
to meet the base criteria of those
guidelines uh in conjunction with
considering the overall applications now
we managed to put a bunch of those goes
into the code and you know frankly uh as
we go through this process to update the
Livingston Avenue zoning hopefully that
goes into place and there are a lot of
those standards that we will then have
pulled or those guidelines that we will
have pulled into standards for
Livingston they're not there yet so what
we have now is is a set of guidelines so
uh really the only one that we're trying
to implement here is if again if you go
back to that site plan I'm only I'm only
on the site plan I'm giving it back to
you um is you can see there is a d
dotted line 10 foot setback that goes
kind of all across the property um right
now there's a bit of I hate to call ad
hoc but it kind of is sort of ad hoc
parking that takes place you can see
where those stripe lines are designated
and that uh shows about 20 spaces shows
20 spaces exactly and they are required
to have 18 spaces um as their minimum
and you know honestly if the new zoning
goes in that would be that would be
their maximum as well um everything that
happens from that strip line down to the
sidewalk is a bit of a free-for-all now
you can park a car in there um the
difficulty is that as people are going
to be entering this front door
particularly with the new addition on um
on that concrete pad you I think it'd
probably beho us to think about a
strategy to maybe stripe that off uh not
too dissimilar to what we've done in
some of these other more Auto oriented
sites further up Main Street uh like
catalinas or cohatch any of those where
basically you you know stripe off an
area to designate you don't park a car
right in front of the door so people can
walk and get in the door um what we are
requesting on this particular site is in
the Livingston Avenue joint Livingston
joint Avenue can't can't talk anymore
Livingston Avenue joint plan there is um
a guideline that we screen parking and
that would be in this case what we're
really just talking about is just from
from Livingston um you know uh future
zoning considerations are looking to be
way more aggressive than that for all
right away what we're just saying is
we'd really like to get some green space
on the back of that and I think some of
you may be aware there is a complete
Street rebuild that's about to take
place for the Livingston Avenue Corridor
in fact the kickoff meeting today was
today internally and that will take
place from within the right away um and
basically create a complet complet New
Street section with sidewalks all that
kind of fun stuff so what we're asking
is to start to complement that with the
guidelines and if I could have that
pointer does anybody still have that
pointer laying around oh thank
you and then I'll turn it over for the
architecture essentially where're youed
that dash line if we could pick up some
green space it doesn't even have to go
all the way to that line at 10 maybe
just 8 feet so that gives you a little
more flexibility to get in this door um
essentially pick up Green Space where
you already have it here and extend that
on both sides to frame up this drive and
then put in some kind of greenery in
order to to screen the parking lot
behind in order to meet those guidelines
now you could say what good is that
going to do because you can still see
right up the middle of the driveway I
will say it will do some good and most
importantly it'll start to set the
precedent that we've been using
consistently as we apply those design
guidelines all the way down Main Street
so every time we've had one of these
cases on Main Street even before they
were modified we would do that same
approach and then you gradually start to
build a little bit more green space
along there and uh you know create that
that much more substantial walkable
streetscape which would be greatly aided
by the fact that we're about to have a
brand new huge investment U jointly by
the city of Columbus and Bexley so
that's kind of all I have on that um
since there is no variance requested
you're the final say at this point it
won't go beyond you to the Bap um unless
some other site factor materializes that
would require a variance no parking
variant required so that's kind of it so
with that I'll turn it over to camera
does this need to go to the landscape
yeah okay so oh sorry go
ahead you can go ahead I mean I don't
have a lot to say other than I mean it
is definitely the building
is
yes so I think it would be good for you
just to walk through sure
sure my client approached me uh in
December I believe maybe there about um
he said that he had been trying to get
something done to this effect for some
time and that he needed my help so here
we are we wanted to do something to and
if you look at the photographs that you
all have you can see as you just said uh
it does not look very nice and he wanted
to you know he didn't want to make it
Taj Mahal but he wanted to make it look
better um he wanted to make
it I guess a more clear entrance for his
business um just kind of make it look
more approachable nicer clean everything
up and uh kind of just update it a
little bit so what we settled on was
basically a long vestibule that would
allow him
to have that that more parking directed
entrance uh and also maybe you know put
some advertisement the windows whatever
it is you know that he wants to do in
the future but provide that that entry
space with a lot of light um you know I
I don't think he has any plans to do
anything immediately on the inside uh so
this is just wanted to keep it simple so
as you can
see he's chosen uh to use a metal panel
it's just a standard ribbed metal panel
um and I
I didn't see any requirement to bring
the material board but I can we could
provide samples if if you'd like to see
them um but it's pretty much that it's
it's a ribbed metal panel across the
front full full glazing um I did discuss
the uh the plantings with him and he's
he's just fine with putting some
plantings there in front of the building
I know you mentioned the parking it is
asphalt right now all the way up to the
sidewalk but you know that's what gets
this done I think we can do that
actually oh hold on we got to get your
sworn in sorry just make it
legal please state your name Robert Dean
Hoffman do you somly swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth 110% thank you all
right um there actually was Green Space
on the corner of my parking lot when I
acquired the building at the age of 30
and I tored out dad parking because I
don't have enough
we stay incredibly busy I don't have
room to park bikes like
bicycles um we literally Park cars on
the side
street every day because we don't have
room in our parking
lot so as you would like to have the
Green Space it is just GNA force me to
park more cars on the side street which
is frustrating because I mean I can't
leave them there everynight I got to go
get them I got to bring them on the the
lot
uh we often have two and three deep
stacked cars in the back of the parking
lot I would love to buy the property out
back of my building and turn it into a
parking lot but that guy wants an imene
amount of money for that
property just to tear it down and he
really doesn't even have any interest to
sell it I guess I know his daughter his
daughter has told me multiple times that
he has no interest but anyways
um I think that's Zone residential by
the way it is I know it is I would have
obviously I'd have to go through all
this to get that accomplished or
something of this but I would love to
not be parking cars on the
street but that's just where I mean I've
grown out of the location but I own the
location um and I have
for eight years
so I don't intend to leave if I don't
have
to yeah I and I just want the building
to look more inviting right now it looks
like you might get mugged if you walk
inside obviously you would not but it
just does not look very liing well a
sign on the front of it then too with
your business name on it excuse me will
you put a sign because there's no
signage shown on there but will you put
signage on the front of it with your
business
name um Oh you mean at the top he's got
the there's a they're replacing the
existing sign on there I I just want to
say real quickly on the we're
sympathetic to the fact that you the way
that your business is operating makes
you need to use those
spaces I think that the advantage of
gaining that as green space is much
greater than the fact that you might
have to park on the size Trader and
double parking those cars and I get
that's a nuisance to you I think the
very fact that there are cars parked so
close to the driveway both from a
physical ACC standpoint in the way the F
site functions and from a visual
standpoint is actually kind of the
argument why we should get rid of it so
I understand that you want to use those
spaces can you see how many you're gonna
let me you're gonna let me keep
finishing I know I know you are and then
when the other thing is we're moving the
door and to have a car physically parked
in front of the actual door is just
impractical and unfeasible so that one
just has to go there's just not no way
other way you could do it you're going
to have to at least stripe that off so
you can can walk in that door and then
the one on the other corner I see you
have a ton of cars I understand that
operationally that's a difficult
difficulty for you I also will say
you're in excessive your code
requirement and the green space is way
more important to the community as a
beginning stage of establishing at that
than to have two single cars out of the
20 some you have on like the light so
back over to
you I well obviously I would get rid of
I would have to get rid of the front
parking I would have to there is no if
ANS are butts I mean I can't park a car
in front of a man door that is ignorant
um but the other Corner would be tough
for me to relinquish that part of the
parking
lot why why are there so many cars I
mean do you schedule appointments for
people to bring their cars in for
repairs well I've been in business for
almost 16 years and
I'm pretty good at what I do um I
literally got called by Midas on Main
Street today to go fix a car for
them so I had to drive to Midas to fix a
car that was stuck in their
shop and they
paid I should I he is actually that busy
and he has a lot of walk-ins when I'm
there to collect information about you
know the site if I need a few more
photographs or whatever it is I
routinely see three or four more people
walk in just while I'm there and so this
isn't a car collection I can assure you
yeah well I mean operationally we
certainly would never allow that
configuration to occur if we were citing
this today regardless code issues just
from a safety issue with a a space that
close being backed into a driveway
coming off of a high-capacity roadway so
that's a whole different issue um I
understand operationally you don't like
to get rid of it that's that's our
strong advocacy position I I don't
really need to say anything else about
it it's up to the board to decide so are
we reviewing architecture we're just
going to review the architecture of this
what the building looks like well you
have all these things in your purview to
decide so it's a guideline the basis is
all these things supporting the
architecture correct
[Music]
okay is there anyone else in the
audience that wants to speak about this
application he wants to go
home is there a board member that wants
to start asking questions I do can we oh
no um
so oh it's okay
um I have a question in the site plan
the new proposed site plan uh this
obviously parking is correct G this
one's gone and I understand I don't want
to talk about
that well I mean I I support the
screening I think I drive by this all
the time and you know dressing that up
will actually yeah unfortunately make
more business for you because people
like I want there so then you have less
parking so I don't think these car spots
them is going to is going to change
anything for you because it's going to
be busier the challenge I have is
there's a ramp out of that new door that
you have to come out and turn left into
the other parking spot and I think I
don't know if you brought that up but
it's you're basically the end of the
ramp clearances is in the parking spot
which is not permitted yeah we may need
to to adjust the striping a little bit
as we work out where that ramp needs to
land because you know it's Asault I
haven't actually gone out there and
measured slope or anything like that I
can tell you there's about a 4 in
difference from where the exist
uh sidewalk is but we're not actually
keeping the sidewalk that's
approximately where it will be but it's
the slope is going to be what it needs
to be yeah and I see in the elevation
you come out you're going this way but
again clearance that's required per code
and that being a spot isn't allowed
correct I also don't see any Ada spots
marked correct I I didn't actually make
any modifications to striping all your
parking is BAS on your square footage
and your use and you're using I think
all of it for your cars that you're
working on I'm assuming there's a couple
that you keep free open during the day
for people to come in um we try our best
I mean it doesn't I can leave work on
Friday and come back on Monday and that
could be 18 drop off I think that's
amazing I gotta start coming to you I'm
sorry actually I just parked on the side
street when I went over there awesome I
I just don't know Jason what the city
the requirement for an ada8 spot we're
gonna need gon have to yeah we'll stripe
one of those so that's and then I'd like
to just start talking about the
building can you go to the
elevations
so I would agree this is an improvement
over the existing
facade I I I just feel like it's
a if this was a restaurant this would be
the outdoor patio where people were
hanging out um it just doesn't feel like
a entrance to a business especially your
business
um I assume this is a standing Ste metal
roof right so so singy metal roof you
got a gutter and then you have a metal
panel I know it say metal I don't know
what that metal is it's
corated I worry oh is it not
working yeah I got two now
um I guess it's it feels it feels like a
an enclosed screened in porch to me um
and I understand that you you're you
want to kind of have a long vestibule
is this going to be just a long Corridor
in plan uh the main do more or less yeah
it'll be less than there won't be a dead
end Corridor that's what is that gonna
you think that'll fill up with stuff
that you're storing or no no no no no no
okay no again I don't have any control
over that I just curious I I I did I
guess I no it's more or less just to
open up obviously I I have no problem
with massing in the addition on the
front I think that's appropriate I think
it looks fine I think you could put a
sign up there and get get out take the
big blade sign that's on the poll in the
yard out well we didn't address that
because we thought maybe that might be a
sticking point well and we thought we
the sign but you can't do both for sure
but again you're setting that up for
future possibility for that because it
would work well there um it did have po
when I I I rented the building in 2010
and it had had the big one up on it had
the big one up on there and then the one
in the front which obviously took down
the one on the shingles the shingles
were beautiful they've been painted
twice I think they're really nice I
think they're ready to go and I think
this is the better Improvement I I think
for me it's just the the configuration
of the windows and this the metal panels
it just feels like a it's a three season
porch instead of um and you know if it
was all open you know that became a
porch then you came in and walked that
that could be interesting so I'm just
I'm not sold on the actual look of how
this glass and this panels are working
as a kind of a storefront your front of
your building it's better than what you
have I get totally agree I'm just not
sold that that's exactly how it should
be and you can pass I have one now so
you can pass it
down Mr
Hall yeah I think the
uh I I think it def it's a definite
Improvement and one of the things if you
go back to the floor plan um and Pete
pointed this out with the with the ramp
that's here outside I'm wondering this
this going all the way across and this
being a dead end this seems like a lot
of unusable space I'm wondering if this
ramp if this could be shortened and then
this ramp sort of tucks into it um so
you pull the door back and instead of
this Crossing all the way across the
front of the building it's it's reduced
in its width and I um I agree this looks
like a
70s Edition on a Rax Roast Beef or
something like that it looks like yeah
you know the minus the Skylight minus
the Skylight so you know just the roof's
not in and I think if you explored some
ideas where maybe the glass it's just
all glass it doesn't sit on a knee wall
possibly okay I think that could be just
an easy solution and then how you treat
that
that that roof um whether it should be
slanted or just be a box and be FL and
be flat I um I think that needs to be
explored a little bit but there is a
reason for that but I'll let sorry go
ahead but but the the punch the sort of
they're not really punch but the ribbon
window I guess is the right term I think
that's that's my hangup I think I'd
almost like to see this be have a little
more transparency to it um versus you
know you know being filled in and kind
of being a more of a mass it's I don't
think it's the roof that's that you know
that's really kind of got me you know
bothering me a little bit but you could
you could extend the roof all the way
over tuck that ramp in underneath so you
have a covered entrance coming up to the
door for example so it could still go
all the way across the face of the
building with one side of it open versus
the other side so you're saying that you
would perhaps look at keeping the roof
the same length but pulling building
pull this wall in and sort of have
covered entrance out in front over the
ramp area yeah we I did
actually uh consider something like that
it what it does though is it it gets you
right up on that turn into the lobby and
it also sort of Tak away space yeah
yeah okay but yeah but that's my
comments but I understand yeah yeah
could do that too
yeah well then we'd have to build in the
uh the setback and put a sidewalk Green
Space I I I'm just I think getting that
ramp out off the side of the building is
something that really should be
considered and figuring out what that
means okay because I think you're going
to you've got it you got it laid up
against the side of the building now and
it's going down to a parking place you
don't want to get in a situation where
you have a switch back on it to shorten
it so then you're going to start looking
at it 90° and it's going to be coming
out we want to keep it simple as long
yeah so you know pulling it back in the
building and maybe putting a little
cover over the front door might be a
something to study okay so over the
years obviously I've had like code
enforcer inspector I can't remember code
enforcement so I've never had it into my
front door um and the reason being is
because he asked me you have
any
access want to step up to the microphone
so can make sure we hear thank you um
the the reason why he never made me have
a ramp into the front door is because he
asked me if I had any way for someone in
a wheelchair to get in the building and
I said I am the most handicap accessible
building in Bexley I have h four 10 foot
wide doors that you can roll a
wheelchair right into and I have
handicapped customers who have uh they
are in wheelchairs and typically I don't
know if this is the smartest thing for
me to do but I let them stay in their
car if I possibly can as I work on
it
soy I know right I know but and if I can
do it in the parking lot I'll do it in
the parking lot just to keep them from
having to get out of the car and then
you know I will help them no problem and
get them in the building
um but so I've never had an issue with
the handicap accessible front door as of
now probably I this is how I acquired
the building I mean it's always had this
same
issue
um so I don't I don't know and if you if
you do
uh I don't know which picture the inside
of the building can we look at the
picture of the inside of the
building no it's a there was she had it
pulled up yeah yeah like the work plan
or something Oh you mean the plan yeah
the it was a it's a yeah the plan the
inside okay so if you see where the new
front door would be yep right there all
right if you go straight into that new
front door and take a
left that is a garage
door right now it's not right now it was
it was a garage door they stuccoed over
it and put shingle so once I take the
old front of the building off that's
just a big
opening yeah that because this building
was built before Livingston was five
Lanes the Livingston was two lanes and
there was a parking lot in front of this
building because it was the two farthest
Lanes but when they widened Livingston
two years after they built the building
uh they took away their parking lot and
their front garage door and there was a
back garage door that went out the back
of the building so the building was
literally a drive-thru from Livingston
straight out the back and all that had
to be changed and they were forced to
put in the doors on the side of the
building facing the parking lot which
used to all be
Windows um because the way the building
sets East and West are my windows so I
would had light all well back in 1949
they would have had light all day and a
breeze through from window to window and
they put the garage
doors the other direction which was very
very smart when they built it they just
had to change it two years later when
Livingston was
widened but we are also not currently
asking opening up that that opening at
all right that all this is gonna have to
come later I just literally am trying to
change the Dynamics of how the front of
the building looks so it looks more
inviting and I would love to put glass
all the way from ground to there's no
way it's a greenhouse it's just gonna be
a yeah and they throw trash are are you
running hbac into this new porch it's it
already has heat in I'm not putting
any not in the we don't have it
developed that far the entire building
is not insulated and it's not really
heated he's got a couple you know furnes
hanging from the
Raptors there can I make a suggestion
sure what is the purpose of this area
down here is just to make this all
symmetrical on the front of the building
what are you going to use this for down
here because these are windows right
yeah that that is to essentially just
make it look more inviting from the
front so yeah right now I mean the front
of my building looks which I mean I
didn't build it I it's like right I
understand if you're going to resite it
like you're planning and I don't think
you need to make this run this far I
want to save you some money here and I
think you're going to have you'd have a
beautiful building if you just came to
here and and that's it then over here
you could do some Landscaping okay or
whatever and if you go to the elevation
you'll see that you would have you know
that all that new sighting
you know you would have all of this
exposed right with the windows that are
that are there your your little porch
thing would only would be
here and it doesn't matter that it's not
centered on the building that that's not
going to give you curb appeal okay but
you have you you would then have this
whole wall here with the windows to put
a sign above the windows if you wanted
you could do
landscaping um I think that would be
more inviting I I I don't have like
Windows Windows I got these three little
plexiglass they're like I'm tell and
those used to be a giant window yeah I
see them I mean I see what you got there
but I mean and behind those like so
replace them with real Windows instead
of buying these yeah they actually there
used to be a window in the front over
there where those three little windows
are they're as wide as all three of
those and that's framed out and it's
probably nine foot tall that window I
feel like if I took a tour of this
building I would
probably probably be all kinds of stuff
that I don't want to see it's very it's
I mean when when they had to change it
back whenever they had to they covered
up a bunch of stuff and but
architecturally what I'm saying I guess
what I'm saying my opinion is that you
don't need all of this in order to make
this building have Curb Appeal if you
want to freshen it up you're already
doing that with your siding you're going
to have a a best fuel here that will
have the door take you into the opening
that goes into your office area and then
you know that new sighting just extends
down around those windows and you're
done agree with you you're talking about
architecturally speaking you'd have like
object field and it' be just a little
bit offc centered yeah it's just it's
it's a porch it's a it's an enclosed
porch area that you know is to the an
awning that's enclosed that's that's all
yeah and
it's the only reason I was trying to go
the whole distance was hopefully in the
future I I like to budget things I don't
like to go in debt I like to pay cash
for
everything was in the
future so I could get a customer
bathroom because currently I just have
one bathroom and it's from 1949 I think
the toilet is from 1949 Prett yeah it's
nice I think the vanity is too it's
terrible it doesn't mean that you
couldn't do that in the future and it
would just be it would be an addition
but because you'd have to run plumbing
you'd have to go you have to dig up
everything oh yeah but if you put
something that's here okay like I'm
suggesting it's going to read like an
entry porch this does not this this
doesn't read like an entry porch it
reads like an enclosed you know uh front
to a restaurant like they were they were
making Illusions to but I don't know
it's just it's just something that
struck me as why extend all the way down
when you could when you could do that
and just it would be more identifiable
as that's where I go in instead of oh
this just this is I don't know what's
going on there you know it's it doesn't
really it doesn't really read as an
entry there's that's my expert
architectural help I agree I agree with
all that I think
I mean I'm not disagreeing I and it
would save me money it's I was just
looking for in the next five years if I
wanted to get a I can make that hallway
essentially straight down so the
customers could yeah but then you you'd
have to infill the glass right you'd
have to change all of that you'd haveing
under the slab I would have to put a
door in down there so they would go down
the hallway take a left for a restroom
but you're going to have to go under the
slab for your plumbing you're have to
you know change out the windows for
solid unless you're going to just put
like vinyl on the glass so that you
can't see in to the bathroom well no oh
he means the the restrooms would be
interior to the existing yes the the
restrooms what does that have to do with
this nothing okay that that this was
just the hallway to get there five years
from now when I come back and try to get
all that done but that is
not I was just looking into the future
as the building it all the way across
I can put a hallway inside the building
I'm
just losing square footage and I clearly
need every foot of auto repair shop that
I can
get like I said I'm pretty much grown
out of the location I mean I kind of
feel like the the the the plan is
incomplete like the AR your designer
should be looking at all of that for the
future like if that bathroom needs to
move to be better situated for what you
want to be your you know vestule sit
sitting area office space that you
should study that now before you decide
to just put this slab on and put all
this stuff up I would suggest looking
more deeply down the designer can do it
you don't have to build it now but have
have them lay it out for you now Ada
regulations yeah sorry Ada regulations
yeah there's so much that has to go into
that that would you would just even if
you're not going to do it all now you
just have it all drawn out yeah I was
just trying to make it look nice cuz I
think we just didn't want the waters
with right that when this is all we're
trying to do right now yeah I'm just
trying to focus on the outside of how
the building's going to look and get
that done and get it accomplished and
get it past and yeah we we don't want
you to regret just throwing a porch up
you know and then later on having to
tear part of it off you could you could
solve all that now even though you're
not going to build it all now that's all
I'm saying yeah I I just don't want to
repaint the shingles
I make motion that's where it's gonna be
it's going to be new shingles or I'm
building
something okay so I I'm the last to
speak and I will say I agree especially
with building ass life don't spend a
bunch of money on this GL last hallway
that is just going to end up being
storage for you because when your
customer comes in and just sees stuff
stored there that's not a great look so
if you can make it smaller and put more
green space and spend that extra money
on just fixing your existing windows I
think that would look amazing so that
would be our
recommendation um so at this point would
you like to um ask for a tabling and
come back next
month well what would you all prefer I
mean I I would prefer to
to send this to Kathy but
um you know if you need us to to come
back and explore those ideas are the
board members comfortable with the fact
that we don't have like Ada and all that
covered are we because sometimes that
makes us very nervous if we approve
something that doesn't meet code well we
we don't do Ada review here we made a
comment for recommendation that'll get
to Kathy and they they'll come for an
interior remodel he would simply submit
to the Chief Building official for run
of any this is talking about the ramp oh
the ramp yes that also would have to
yeah well can I ask this of um Miss bour
if we make conditions and he works
with uh miss bour you know
design staff and you're able to show us
the revision then you're getting your
you're basically getting your approval
as long as you're willing to work with
Miss boore to revise sure because the
design as is I couldn't vote for the
that glass enclosure the way you've got
it drawn but if you work with Miss bour
on some alterations you know with what
she's heard tonight what you've heard
tonight and then then it moves forward
okay sure I would highly recommend a Pac
air conditioning because this is a south
facing facade it'll be
180 it'll be hot it's called a p it's a
little wall air conditioner that sits up
in the ceiling and yeah cools the VES
because you're gonna have it's GNA be so
hot
just something then you'll probably
spend all day in there because it'll be
nice and cold and then well what he's
going to do is he's gonna open up that
stuck a wall and he's going to have all
that that air blowing through I just
think it's going to be really hot so
that's not going to be a good experience
just try to get a whole like AC like on
the RO yeah oh that that's but like I
said I'm trying to do this in phases and
I mean I you know I just like to pay for
things I don't like interest I guess so
yeah especially not now when I bought
the building I bought the
building okay I would be in support of
Mr hire's recommendation yes do we um we
need findings of
fact the findings of fact and decision
of the board for application number ar-
24-12 for property located at 2172 East
Livingston Avenue the Architectural
Review Board finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued or the
proposed
improvements which are architecturally
compatible subject to the condition that
the applicant work with the design
consultant on modifications
referenced in the meeting on May 9th
2024 uh and that there also be a
landscape plan in accordance with the
joint Livingston Avenue plan subject to
review by the landscape consultant do
you understand the findings effect as
she read I
do okay is there board member that will
make a motion so moved
higher second call
I will call the rooll Mr
Scott yes Mr Hall yes Mr hire yes Madam
yes you are approved thank you Ken thank
you so much how should I contact
you
okay okay we're going to keep going
because we still have two more
applicants that have sat through all
this
application number arb2 24-14 the
address is 2357 Bexley Park applicant is
Guy Allison the owner is Mea Alex Simon
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness to demolish deteriorated
garage structure and existing wood deck
and replace with attached garage Edition
and covered
patio yes um we're gonna let Karen give
us a little bit of back
where you in
okay
18357 tget that we're
on and and just a little background this
when it was first submitted actually had
two garage Bays that were proposed
attached to the south of south side of
the house and within 3 feet of the
property line after speaking with the
applicant that this would be a very hard
sell based on the fact that the
three-foot setback is for detached
accessory structures and
garages uh the applicant reworked the
plan and actually got creative and came
up with a new attached garage that meets
these setback requirements and a
detached garage with some modifications
to The Hardscape that makes it function
so is this the that's the new one yes
okay that resolves a lot of M
issu I talk about though yes I
appreciate the efforts she made to make
those
changes um do we have elevations for
that one
too uh yes those were uh uploaded just
uh they were very
late um yeah see that's the old version
yeah should say
ation you want to go ahead and start
talking about your design I sure okay um
I have a sir let me let me where you in
first please state your
name and raise your right hand do you
you somly swear orir the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes thank
you
so maybe we could
uh grab the latest and greatest so to
speak um you've gotten out of the
setback of
course so
um let's
see
yeah let's
see the new design also meets all of the
lot coverage limitations as far as
building footprint and overall lot
coverage
yes that's correct uh May 7 sounds right
yeah so
that's that's the back of the house
yes so thech yeah the porch on the left
and the attach garage
um we can just go
through not
up and is that the only are there other
elevations or is it okay
there's
attached and that's an inward facing so
oh he would still need a special permit
for the functional
Dormer okay so what we would only
require a recommendation on the detou
garage I mean it first glance it looks
way better than oh yeah original
application but I have not had I mean I
didn't
see yeah it it was submitted L but he
had to make a lot of effort to make
extreme changes to eliminate the
variances that were initially submitted
on an ARB application yeah I was very
confused because as I was reviewing it
there were so many different drawings I
didn't the site
right
right so the design of one two-car
garage that's attached and one two-car
garage that is detached and there's no
variances or there is a variance for the
Dormer just that functional Dormer in
the detached garage but he went from
four attached parking spaces to the
house to two attached parking spaces and
two detach parking
spaces and right now I believe there's a
three car detached garage just three
with a car port
so really all deteriorated yeah that's
the old site plan
that's yeah there's the
new and we're comfortable that all
that works for turning cars and getting
them the the size between the amount of
space between garages actually works for
getting cars do we know the dimension
between the two uh we got 21 and change
uh
we've done some uh some studies with
some of the
radiuses looks less 19 feet inside
diameter outside and such and
uh so the challeng without without a
three-point turn yeah the challenge is
backing up you can get a 19 feet fine
the issue is when you're
turning you need more than that so you
know yeah but you know you're going to
angle out of your garage and it's tight
definitely definitely tight when and
that that's kind of one of the things is
we're looking at is um both neighbors uh
are their garages are very tight to the
property line uh the existing um for
example the one to the West uh is on the
line um which is planned North there um
and then the one uh to the uh East um
it's effectively a shared
Drive um they're much
closer than
the you know what I mean so we were kind
of
um I I wanted to you know I don't know
if we had any flexibility to pull it
down further as the neighbors
are you know kind of
uh following suit you're talking about
the freestanding garage that you want it
close yeah yeah we yeah if we could kind
of move if we could move it further plan
South it would really free up some space
is it 3 feet now it's three feet now
that's the minimum setback requirement
for a detach garage but but like the
neighbors are uh they're tighter than
that and then the one to the north is on
their property line and if they wanted
to replace that in that same location
they would have to get a
variance yeah then you would also have
to request a variant if we wanted to
ship it so yeah we I'll let them know
that you know um
we'll uh preserve the
LI he will for the now that I see
there's a functional dorm
needs a special permit from the zoning
board but we could talk about what we I
mean we could not I mean not talk about
it because we just see it but massing
wise and from what I'm seeing I didn't
read all through the details of notes
but it doesn't feel inappropriate at all
well I think it would be helpful for him
if we gave our comments you know
whatever uh wherever he needs to go next
yes uh or to put his pack pack AG
together or you know for Miss Boer to to
assess the
package yeah as a separate
structure on the on the
house the house is up to this board the
detach garage only needs a special
permit for that functional dor or how
and also I'd like to point out that the
zoning code requires a minimum 10 feet
between the house and the detached
garage garage so if somebody come in and
and submitted for an application for a
detach garage that met code I could look
at it and sign off if it's within 10
feet of the principal structure not
within 10 feet at least 10 foot minimum
and Karen could sign off on the design
and it wouldn't go before a board so we
can just separate this into you you are
looking at the
attached yeah
because I think we we need to talk about
that design
recommendation at this point in the
evening yeah I think we
we
should I turn it over to Mr
Hall I think my only comment really is
is I keep looking at the existing house
and
the is there an elevation of this
I guess it would be yes sir the way this
addition comes and connects to the
existing house this brick Wayne's coat
is is forign everything going on there
that's right yes yes yeah I and that
transition yeah the transition and I I
think frankly I think it should just be
brick all the way up but then I don't
know how to transition to the back where
you've brought in some tutor Style
um that's fitting to the front of the
house
um but I think that's my comment it's
just that this brick wne Coating in this
elevation we see does not work it's just
yeah that's a detail yeah unless it's
sitting back a little bit and there's a
reveal for it to butt into yes or it's
out and then it's returning to the house
precisely this you know the windows are
down lower than the existing Windows I'm
you know there's just a lot going on
with this that doesn't really relate to
the existing house even the is that that
origal yeah the the Dormer above it's
not lining up and I just think it could
all be a little bit
cleaner the back of the house mancing
wise looks pretty good at first
glance rear
elevation well I mean the comments that
we're giving are they're going to go to
you so that you can help to work with
him for the next are we is this going to
come back to us with with the proper
paperwork
or because we never saw this I guess now
we're reviewing it but we can review it
and let it go or we will it come back it
won't come
back we'll see it's up to him I'm
comfortable giving our comments and
letting him work with staff and staff
can make that call based on what I'm
seeing on the house yeah okay that's my
personal Comfort level well I mean I I
would like the last submission I mean I
would really like to see this again but
it doesn't mean that it doesn't you know
get approved with that condition tonight
because I think go if you could put that
elevation up again the one that the side
elevation of the attached
garage and this is just a yeah so what
you really have here is is not a one and
a half
story you have a two-story effectively
garage
right
um effectively yes yeah and there's no
way that this could come down correct
because the floor plate well we're
working with a particularly tall ceiling
um the owners are interested in having
this um extra height for the for the
ceiling where in the up upper in the no
in the garage level oh in the garage in
the garage level so so they want to have
extra height um inordinate height 12
feet or 11 feet so that's why our floor
level is quite a ways up there and
um so you know right I mean that's
that's why it's not low it's not it's
not traditional the same with the the
detach garages we've got the eve uh like
a 10 feet so you know very high the
submission doesn't have a floor plan for
this what's going on up here uh we have
a floor plan no can we have a floor plan
to see we we got a floor plan just a the
site plan gives a um just a schematic
for the first floor but we we don't have
a second floor
um but yeah
that well that that second that um m is
basically like a master suite Edition
that's going to be um maybe one step
down from the uh existing second level
so they'll walk into it and with this
what's this uh that's the original
Edition that that they're refacing uh uh
with you know it's it's vinyl and no
windows mold no no so it's they want to
completely redo that and uh you know
proper trim work
fascia but there's no windows no no no
it's we um we we
that's their uh their their family room
is going to be in there so
possibly on this side yeah we might look
at that possibility of a few there as
you know there's a privacy fence on the
neighbors to that side so and it's a you
know very blush landscape of course so
they behooved to have some windows
there well it would be helpful to see
the floor plan of what's Happening up
here and also um this elevation I I you
know these windows in this door you have
a super high ceiling here probably
because you have a door going that's way
up high I understand that if you go to
this back the other side elevation I
think in order to make this
look like it works with the with the
house I I really think this these
shouldn't be a dormer but these should
extend through another type okay all the
way to the floor okay and that way it
reads more like a twostory okay but it
has a lowered roof yeah and we've seen
lots of those come before us I know the
design definitely it's more it's more
complex U you know from my perspec but
the wall Dormer is actually just
continuing the wall straight up for the
Dormer part I got it I got it recessed a
little bit um but I know what you mean
about having that um what I'm trying to
do is is trying to
eliminate what this looks like which is
this high this a b void there it's a
high forehead yeah so if this if these
came down maybe they became French doors
maybe you had a little balcony or
something that'd be nice but then you
then I then I could justify this because
this line won't be here anymore correct
this line goes away these two roomes are
actually in the same plane they're the
same same plane right so this line you
need to get rid of it's not GNA be there
anymore and now I have this you know
double French door thing or something
here and then I can justify this all
being in the same Eve condition and on
the other side why not put a
dormer
T
sign start separate application for the
detach Gage won't lose any time with
that this was diving on yeah got it guys
so separate application for the detest
so um because that's with the
Demolition well this is all filed under
an architecture review board application
when in fact you had uh a functional
Dormer which that's a sear yeah yes
wasn't revealed until you submitted your
May 7th plan okay I see Gage yes I need
adequate time so I can make sure I get a
notice that goes out to the neighbor
stating that you're requesting a
variance you do something that doesn't
mean
yeah so I can help you with the
application and and I can help you get
the package kind of you know clean up
back here next
month oh you don't I haven't given
notice for a variance because he made
modification yeah let's just table thank
you yeah so just stay in touch with
Karen and um and Kathy and the two of
them will help walk you through the
process but basically you'll come back
next month with whichever of these one
or both that needs to be seen by board
okay work that all right is there a
finding a
fact finding a fact for a tbling um we
can table this I'm going to give a
notice so we don't have to table it to
June 13 because I'm going to send a new
notice out that states and divides the
two uh structures ARB will review the
addition and make a recommendation on
the garage the garage will go forward
then to the zoning board so I'll need to
send that on my next notice going out
for my June meetings okay so you will be
tabled to the June meeting and just
stand touch with Karen and she will help
you get prepared for that so that you
have all your documents in in time
hopefully we don't have this last minute
snapo where we're see drawings in a
meeting that we didn't see
ear okay understood okay thank you okay
so um do we need to vote for that yeah
yes
um I'll call the RO Mr Scott yes Mr Hall
yes Mr hire yes Adam Tenny yes thank you
okay thank you we will see you back
thank you again right
good
okay we made it to number nine and I am
so sorry that it has gone this late for
you poor people
um application number ARB 24-15 the
address is one Vernon the applicate is
Corey Smith the owner is that the
applicant is seeking architecture review
and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story addition
to the rear of the principal
structure can you spread them in
please please State your names starting
with you
sir Ben babo do somly swear or affirm
the testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth I do thank
you okay um I have spoken with both of
these gentlemen today um this is a
project that conceptually I have no
problem with but I think it has a lot of
work to do on some of the things like um
the pitch can be steeper and move closer
to the ridge line of the original house
and the Dormers can therefore be more
appropriately sized and the windows need
to be made um separate Windows like a
tradition
Dormer um so we talked about this I mean
it's just the a box on the back of a box
and I'm okay with that but I would like
to work with the applicant on the what I
think are the correct proportions and
slope of the roofs and windows and I'm
okay with the board remanding it to me
if you are on this
one is there anything else you want to
add as the applicant
now yeah pretty much everything Karen
said there we talked about yeah raising
the top or the height up and then yeah
putting more standard shed Dormers in
and yeah matching the windows similar so
yeah it's kind of it's things we wanted
to do but just didn't really get it put
on there so yeah okay is there a board
member that would like to ask questions
about this application or I I would like
just to ask Miss Boer
about can you clarify what you mean by
the by the um alignment of and that I I
understand there's if you pull are you
talking about pulling the eve down of
the addition so that you have a real
Dormer sitting on top of the roof
instead of this
horizontal yeah and and raising and
changing the pitch yeah and changing the
pitch and bringing the eve down so that
it's it's not aligning with the house
it's actually lower and getting a real
Dormer on top of that I also want to
point out that I don't think the windows
are drawn correctly
the original representation so once you
know we get those right or understand
those we can match better the windows
but yes yes all that and so you just be
working with obviously the existing
proportion of Windows on the house I
mean it's it's a lovely
house it's it's it's I mean it's not
drawn correctly because the windows you
made them more squat but
um it's it it is and I I from the
picture
it's it it seems like a really nice roof
too yeah it's brand new so you'll match
the roof yeah roof will be matched yep
what is the siding uh just vinyl vinyl
yeah and so you just continue that match
yeah and you and and the addition does
step in so you'd have you'd have a
corner
there I would I would agree with that
I've worked with um Ben
before yeah we always get a little few
pearls away wisdom from coming through
this uh VI yeah every every project it
gets a little architecturally better and
we we we were didn't originally start
with a transom window and that's kind of
where that went Ary but uh yeah kind of
talking talking it through with Karen
and and and we were G to enlarge that
but we kind of ran out of time to submit
for the deadline but uh yeah kind of
more of your that the Craftsman that was
at Starbucks uh something similar to
that
style where the pitch goes higher up and
in a true true window true rectangular
window versus a transom multiple there
be two there one on each side of H
basically the
bed I can't wait to see this because
after four and a half hours of pearls
tonight they're gonna have all these
[Laughter]
ideas okay the second option was
reming it to Karen is there a board
member is there a board member that will
make a motion do you want me to read the
finding yes
please findings of fact decision of the
board for application number ar-
24-5 for property located at 10004
Vernon the board finds that a
certificate of appropriateness should be
issued for the two-story
addition with the following condition
that the modifications discussed at the
May ARB meeting be reflected in new
plans subject to final review and
approval by the design
consultant do you understand the
findings fact that they've been written
yes is there a board member that will
make a motion so moved
Scott second
Hall I will call the rooll Mr H yes Mr
Scott yes Paul Madam Tony yes you are
approved so please keep with Karen until
all the details are great and thank you
so much for your amazing patience not a
problem than you
guys wait there's more what wait wait
wait don't worry it's it's short and how
did I not know about but we have to keep
you in the
loot oh it's under other business this
is exciting this has already started off
so
well so I really appreciate your time I
understand you just went through a very
very long meeting so I'm going to keep
this brief um I haven't met everybody
here um at the dice my name is Megan
Meyer I started about four months ago as
a city's newly appointed director of
administration and development in my
role I wear multiple hats and one of
them is helping to orchestrate the mural
Fest planning committee um we did submit
a just some images they're in the
Dropbox Karen I don't if we can pull
those up Karen Karen she's asking you to
pull up stop talking to her Pete you're
distracting
her oh on the drop box and the website
documents it's not a formal submission
yet so my intent tonight is just to make
you aware of the project I don't think
it's been discussed too publicly um I
think it was perhaps that a last year as
part of the mayor's budg process but
beyond that I don't really think we've
talked about how we're going to make our
selections and how the boards and
commissions might be involved and so
that's my goal um next month we will
submit a actual Board of zoning and
planning application um which we would
ask for you to make a favorable
recommendation to that board of course
um at that time we'll be bringing you
actual concepts for the mural festival
and I just want you to have an
idea it's under mural f
there you
go so if you hadn't heard the general
concept behind mural Fest is to bring
energy to Pockets that lack energy on
Main Street um and so the committee
Karen if you would go to this second
slide if you don't mind um we've had a
very broad call for people to
participate in the planning committee
itself and so just wanted to give you a
flavor of some of the individuals that
have been giving their time to that
effort keep rolling Karen just let it go
up the screen
okay I'm trying um so we do have council
member Silverman joining us um two
individuals who are very active with 934
galleries good fake creative Studio you
might recognize Alex's name he's
involved in a number of community events
and he can also be thanked for the logo
creation for this um and then we have
some City staff members as well as
representatives from the greater C
Columbus Arts Council as well as a
nonprofit called Catalyst Columbus
they're an artist Collective that help
um Place artists with jobs in the
Columbus area and I'm sorry I'm getting
distracted by all the
movement yeah I had trouble with it on
but I thought it was my
computer because you got the industrial
thing to pop up and then it keeps
scrolling up it might be there oh there
it is Keith's got
it okay well and they're really just
samples of what what not exactly what's
going to be there
but screen share it it's not working
with the zoom sorry for the technical
glitches um so I just wanted to give you
an update about where we are in the
process now um so over the course of the
last month we set a very broad net to do
a call for applicants um we got a little
creative and recogniz that there are M
mural festivals in other areas of the
region and so reached out to artists
that have participated in other
festivals that might be in other states
other areas of the country and invited
them to apply um it was very successful
we had 58 artist applications come in in
just that month's time with a very solid
mix of people who are from the Columbus
region as well as more broad um our idea
is to narrow that down in a very hard
process to 10 finalists for which we'll
actually pay for a concept that's unique
to Backle we're not curating the art
we're not telling them to go draw a lion
go draw us flowers um we're selecting
the artists and getting them pretty free
reign as to what the art might be um but
being careful to have some parameters
that are appropriate to government
public uses of course um you could
probably guess what those may be um so
right now I at the next slides will show
you what some of those um General artist
portfolios are I wanted to just kind of
give you a flavor of the breadth of
what's been submitted
um and these are not what will come to
you for consideration next um months
these are just from the top 5 to 10 um
from the committee so far of who we
liked from their portfolios so they'll
come back to us with actual designs um
to be painted and if you continue on um
these are all as you can see very
different in style and taste and so the
committee once we select our top four
we'll do our best to pair those with the
appropriate walls obviously knowing what
the current uses of those buildings um
some of these make more sense on some WS
than others of course um as well as
scale uh with that in mind the next
slide does tell you a little bit about
where we do intend to place these um so
Rubinos couldn't be more thrilled to do
this um and I actually the next Kath if
you just um I'm sorry Karen if you would
like to proceed on to the next slide I
do have an image of what the site of
rinos currently looks like so I think we
can I think we can make an improvement
um and hopefully you agree
um yeah okay um so um so we'll find
something that's appropriate to the
scale of that building that would
translate well and that of course brings
the kind of energy that you would hope
to see at a restaurant use but we've
also had interests from others in the
East Main Street area which is our area
Focus for this year um including the
potential of Catalina giving us her
eastern elevation instead of one of the
murals that she proposed to you
previously have reviewed those um but
we're working with her to see if she
would actually do this instead coatch as
well um they have very limited space on
that new addition but it's something
they were interested in um and so
there's a potential there K galleries um
they have an alley it's on their Western
elevation it's just a plain um brick
wall West banko that's the elevation
that actually faces Johnson's might be a
unique opportunity given that is a
pretty highly driven community area
Second Glance hair and nail that faces
the road um Anthony Thomas is a little
bit unique Marjorie Gallagher she does
own a number of properties in that area
where that Anthony Thomas um building is
if you remember that is three individual
units there um she had requested to
select her own artist which is kind of
outside the parameters of the Fest so
we're going to work with her to help get
her approval process through with us and
to help celebrate that art as part of
the Fest but we won't be paying that
artist to fee for their work
um and then Bexley Square we do intend
to replace the student mural um that was
painted last year um and keep that a
rotating um rotating mural area these
other ones however as part of our mou
with the property owners um we do intend
to help maintain them for 15 years that
deal goes both ways they commit to not
repainting that mural for 15 years we
commit to helping to maintain it with
clear coats and any removal of any
graffiti or anything that might be
placed on those
um so I'm sorry I spoke as quickly as I
could to get you out of here but just
didn't want to Blindside you next month
when we bring you some Concepts and of
course wanted to open it up to any
questions you may have wasn't the
2710 is that the one that we just had
approved for painting is they did just
repaint that same elevation um we've
we've gotten different answers from
different folks on that one and so
that's why it's in the interested column
still there's a mural on the Giant
parking lot yes is that that's not part
of any of these planned areas is it it
is actually what what I indicated is
bestley square is what I'm I went to I
saw the girl was pretty cool yeah I
think this is amazing I think you did a
great job thanks for waiting all night
but yeah perfectly fine I got Bexley
times done in the meantime so there you
go I think you've been doing a lot of
organization and work on this so I I
think it's great we support awesome if
you have any questions in the meantime
I'll be sure to have those submitted to
you as soon as the um finalist submit
the concepts to us so you time to review
them are are you looking for us for
commenting on the actual artwork
Concepts um more or less just giving a
knot of approval um I mean so I what
we're trying not to do and it's hard
because a lot of people have opinions is
do this art by committee thing that can
often go Ary um and I don't mean that to
sound offensive I'm sure all of your
opinions are very worthwhile um and also
we're trying to give as much leadway to
the artist as possible no so when we
present projects we're doing art in time
Village and they want to hear all about
it and we usually do art Graphics yeah
but they do not want to have anything to
do with approving the actual artwork
itself because I I would
agree my opinion but I don't want to be
the the deciding factor I can tell you
it's been a very difficult process
already narrowing it from the 58 to 10
and I don't know how we're going to get
it down to that four because it's so
subjective and they're all very talented
and qualified thank you yeah I think
it's awesome great very exciting thank
you thank you for hanging
around all right thanks Meg thank
you now we're