spe
uhhuh stay
tuned okay yeah okay
okay and the time is
605 I do my pan there it
is
okay all
right ladies and gentlemen let me call
to order the
the November I guess this is meeting of
the even though it's not on the same the
correct date because we took
Thanksgiving off but the November
2023 meeting of the Beckley Board of
zoning and
planning
the U we have a quorum of board members
present uh M Rose will you call the role
please of the board members um I'd like
to Welcome Matt esel brener this evening
he's alternate but has been tuning into
our meetings and reviewing minutes are
you sure you want to do this Matt yes
okay Mr Levine just joking here Mr schik
here Mr Turner here chairman Beall I'm
here as well thank
you we have
um
first the do we have the minutes of the
last meeting
circulated and has everybody had a
chance to review them and do we have
more than one month's meetings to
approve I think we have two or three
months meeting two now all
right has everybody on the board had a
chance to review the last two months
meetings
minutes and if so does anybody have any
amendments additions deletions
modifications
alterations or any
other changes I see none do I hear a
motion to approve the September 28th
September 28th minutes so moved Turner
thank you Mr Turner do I have a second
second shik thank you Mr shik all in
favor vote I I I all opposed the motion
passes
unanimously do I have any modifications
to the
October 26th meeting minutes thank you
Kathy if not do I hear a motion to
approve those
minutes motion to approve Turner thank
you second check thank you gentlemen all
in favor of the motion say I I all
opposed nay motion passes unanimously
the minutes of the October meeting are
approved we have uh by Statute the uh
ability of anyone in the general public
to that lives in Bexley that has
standing of course to make comments
about the general nature of the
operation of the board of zoning and
planning not about any particular case
we're not allowed to talk about any
cases in particular during this portion
of the meeting but if anybody has any
comments they'd like to make about the
way the meetings are
conducted uh please step forward
and give us your name and address joh
Lewis 663 you CLA my only request is
that you would speak loudly and into the
microphones for the benefit of the
people outside thank you thank you
excellent comment so for members of the
board especially Matt who are new you
know if the microphone is here it's not
nearly as good as if it's right here so
uh we have microphones for a reason and
there are a number of people out in the
hallway the people are out in the
hallway can you hear
me okay good do you want to hear
me just joking
um the first we're we're going to hear
these very um U modest cases first
because uh we don't want them to have to
wait till the end of the meeting and the
first uh case on the agenda well first
of all we have so many people here that
are going to be Witnesses tonight let's
let's swear everyone in that has either
signed the in and if you haven't signed
by the way you need to sign and if you
wish to speak tonight on any of the in
cases um and I also would like members
of the staff who are going to testify in
any way to also be sworn so anybody hey
Vesna would anybody who is um going to
testify this evening uh please stand and
raise your right
hand Karen Are you standing
okay oh just thought I'd get that in
there uh do you all swear or affirm that
the testimony you're about to give to
the board this evening will be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the
truth it is thank you very much that'll
save us a lot of time
yeah all right the uh first is the first
case
2572 Brentwood uh I have 20 2010 East
Broad 20110 East Broad thank you 20110
East Broad with those people who are
here on behalf of the applicants please
come
forward and let me call this
case yeah I got the weather on here and
not not what I'm looking
for can you get what I'm looking for
here oh
sure
you
go beautiful thank
you um I have it right
here it is okay thank
you I had the other one all ready to go
that's what I had as first okay okay so
this is case thank you that's what I
need
um it's an ARB number yep okay case ar-
23-37 involving 20110 East Broad Street
the applicant is actually I'm sorry it's
bcap this portion is the variance yeah
that's what I was wondering about bcap
p-
21-36 for a gym
expansion okay so case number B zap
21-36 involving 2010 East Broad Street
the applicant is Brent Foley the owner
is the Catholic dasis of Columbus and
you ma'am are who I am Rachel Schultz um
I'm with Triad Architects you're with
who triot Architects Tri Architects
you're the architect of this project yes
thank you all
right
um Kathy can you give us the um back
background on this matter please uh yes
uh St Charles master plan was approved
in September of 2021 with the conditions
related to design and massing as follows
that site modifications design and
materials will be in substantial
conformance with the renderings and
plans submitted at the board of zoning
and planning meeting unless otherwise
modified in collaboration with the ARB
and
staff the applicant is seeking design
review and approval from the border
zoning and planning uh and also seeking
a variance from bexy code section 1254
point10 which limits the maximum height
to three stories or 45 feet to modify
the building on the existing and
previous gym footprint in order to allow
a second and third floor addition to
match the height of the existing
structure uh south of the old gym uh
they have an overall height of of 49
feet and as I said the limit is 45 feet
but this request is to allow the
addition to actually tie in at the same
level of the rest of that structure oh
okay all right tell me your name again
I'm sorry oh you're fine Rachel Schultz
hi Rachel tell us a little bit about why
you think we should would you like me to
oh yeah I forgot did the architectural
reward must have looked at this too
because they had a case number on we did
and um they recommended it um in the
positive to come here with no real
issues at all some little discussion
about some of the Arches to match some
of the brick work detail okay which um
the applicant agreed to with no problem
okay so with those modifications the the
reason that you're going to the extra
four feet is just give us just so that
it matches oh yes so that um the uh our
new building will match the existing
Walter Commons that we're tying into so
um in this view it's uh the building
that's kind of further back um with
those eight uh eight Windows on it
that's the height that we're matching I
see all right would look awkward if you
didn't match it
correct because we're also matching our
floor levels on the inside um so there's
continuation in between it so keeping
the heights the same as in all right can
you folks hear her testimony no okay
we're going to have to be a little bit
more careful and also reminded you you
were sworn in you were okay thank you
does anybody in the audience have any
comments Pro or Con on this
application including you out there in
the hallway anybody have any comments on
this
case okay thank you very much members of
the board you have any questions or
comments regarding this
application all right I see none m
Mr schik you don't have any comments do
you no sir okay
um I think we can call the question uh
Kathy can you give us findings of fact
conclusions of law please the findings
of fact and decision of the board for
application number bcap p- 21-36 for
property located at 2010 East Broad upon
consideration of the application
proposed variance and evidence and
testimony before it the board finds the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to Grant an area variance top code
section 12261 have been met and a 4-
foot variance from beic Cod section 12
5210 to allow a second and third floor
addition to the gym subject to further
review and approval by the Architectural
Review
Board uh by the design consultant what
was by the design consultant doesn't
need to go back okay I was gonna ask
about that but yeah no they were fine
with me um doing the the refined issues
I missed that meeting so oh I has to
speak for that and Miss schz you're okay
going to the design consultant for the
last few y issues that need to be
resolved yes okay and are you okay with
the application with the findings of
pack conclusions of law as they were
written with the with the condition that
was Associated there with yes okay thank
you do I hear a motion from the board to
approve the findings of fact conclusions
of law please so move shik thank you Mr
shik second second Turner thank you Mr
Turner Kathy please call the role on
this application Mr Turner yes Mr schik
yes Mr Asel Brer yes Mr Levine yes
chairman vul my vote doesn't matter much
but I vote Yes also good luck with your
project thank you thank you so
much that's all right the next case in
is case b z-
23-20 it involves 2572 brenwood Road
would the applicant please uh come
forward uh the applicant is Kieran Smith
the owner is Marian Handler the
applicant is Seeking a certificate of
appropriateness for a new garage which
will replace the existing garage the
applicant is also seeking a variance
from Bexley city code section 12
5215 to allow 782 foot garage to replace
the existing 660 foot garage
Kathy is there anybody here on this
matter from the applicant
side
2572 Renwood Road no all right okay
we'll table this till the end of the
meeting not table it but we'll just move
it to the end of the agenda all right so
that gets us to 2200 East Main
Street
this is case B-
2323 the applicant is Ryan Pearson the
address is 2200 East Main Street the
owner is Continental real estate
companies and the request is for
Architectural Review and approval to
allow demo and Redevelopment of the
vacant Trinity Lutheran apartment
structures at 2160 2188 28 2186 East
Main Street with
the parcel numbers included here in the
request and for certificate of
appropriateness for a new five-story
building with housing Alternatives the
applicant is also seeking a variance
from Beckley city code section 12 5413
for parking and for a partial six-story
Ed section of the building a special
permit for a new five-story mixed use
building to provide housing restaurant
retail offices and parking we've had an
initial
um hearing or I don't know if it was
actually a hearing just sort of a a
session on this several months ago and I
know there's been a lot of other uh
workshops and the like but I'm GNA let
you ladies give us a quick background
here on where we are procedurally and
from the Architectural Review Board
Kathy do you have an initial comment or
not I think Karen had it summed up in
a here staff report that was presented
last
evening you did you want me can ien you
want to give a you want to give us a
sure I'd be more than happy to read it
again and I am gonna read it even though
those of you that know me know i' rather
just talk off the top of my head but I
don't want to forget anything um I'm
gonna give just a little bit of a
background from uh from a process and
what's happened so far and where where
this project has been can everybody hear
her in the back can you hear me okay
good great thank you um the process this
project is a very significant
development and opportunity for the city
of Bexley it's the goal of the city to
be very open and transparent and
encourage public comment and
participation which clearly is happening
this evening it's nice to see all of you
here that said there's a process that
the project has gone through and it's
been very deliberate and thought through
to produce the best outcome for all for
the purposes of this specific project
meaning the physical completion of the
project which includes site design Mass
variances vehicular use architecture the
project is was before the architecture
review board and the tree and public
gardens commission for recommendations
to the board of zoning and planning this
body the board of zoning and planning is
the ultimate decision making body for
the request of the applicant issues such
as tax abatements tiffs School impact
are discussed and decided in other City
bodies not any of those three such as
city council the cic which is community
Improvement Corporation and the school
board um by way of background a few
elements of design will by their nature
be discussed at all three of the boards
and commissions these would include how
the project interacts and activates
public spaces how it interacts with all
its neighboring properties the Bap
discussion included these issues from a
site planning perspective the ARB will
discuss these issues have already
discussed these issues and will continue
if it's remanded back with respect to
the architecture in the design of the
building so just by way of background
the first city-led Public Presentation
of this project was at the board of
boarding sorry the board of zoning and
planning this board on August 24th
2023 as background this ARB well this is
from yesterday but that was a
preliminary review hearing there was no
decision made it was the first
opportunity for comments from the public
and feedback from boards and the
public um Bap discussion and perview
includes site development General
massing zoning code adherence adherence
to Main Street design guidelines which
are different than the ARB design
guidelines a request for a special
permit for five stories which they are
have three stories by write vehicular
patterns and
parking uh what was not for discussion
at earlier Bap meetings was the
architecture although inevitably the
design material choices style did do
come up design review is in the purview
of the Architectural Review Board which
occurred last night and I will go over
the record of decision that um to
recommend this move to this body which
is why we're here with a um with a list
of about nine um conditions um the
applicant is uh seeking a special permit
uh now now the applicant is actually
seeking a variance for six stories um
the project was also heard at the tree
and public garden Commission to look at
the public spaces in the context of the
overall project which uh they came up
with a list of recommendations which Bap
will take into consideration or
condition the applicant on the
application is before was before the
Architectural Review Board last night
for the fourth time it was tabled at the
September architecture review board
meeting for further design study with
the offer to have a workshop in the
interim the application was tabled by
the applicant and removed from the
October ARB at their request and
Workshop was scheduled the workshop for
a design critique with board members
public was it was available for public
to attend but with no public comment
which took pa place on October 17th
where a good deal of design um critique
happened and uh we just get a lot
further by having a workshop that was
very productive the application was then
heard at the November meeting with
fairly good board feedback but a lot of
unanswered issues and questions and the
request for more views materials um
massing modifications along with an
offer for a special meeting date um
occurred which happened last night and
just for clarification which I did last
night too it's not unusual for an
application to have a special meeting in
December November December because we
don't have board meetings in December so
I can't even remember I I just want to
make it clear that this is not a it a
special meeting but it happens often in
December because we don't have meetings
officially um I think that's that's a
that's my sum the rest of it is more
pertinent to last night but that's for
my staff report I think that's a good
background um for for the case
Okay um I think we could have the
applicant come forward and uh and
actually uh I've got quite a quite an
extensive staff report all right Jason I
didn't I didn't mean to pass you by
there I didn't realize who had what here
so no problem please so mrti give us
some more background if you would um So
based on the way that uh we had to get
through a number of board meetings this
week in order to you make sure everybody
had the opportunity to comment on this
we were only able to compile all the
information
today we were only oop sorry we were
only able to compile all the information
today thank you so uh I think I'm going
to go through this pretty extensively
probably a little more extensively than
I usually would just to make sure that
you've had a chance to understand all
the things that are in the staff report
all right a couple things to clarify
right away um you know Karen already
made it it clear that there had been a
request for a special permit to five
stories there is no longer that request
because they are requesting a variance
to six stories and as you know in the
code there are two separate sets of
criteria that we have to use to evaluate
those the reason I bring it up is
because based on that initial
application not only could there
potentially be confusion here but there
seemed to be a little bit of confusion
particularly uh with the findings from
the tree and public garden commission
which referred to that special permit
which actually isn't a thing anymore so
it's now wiped out there is no more
quests there and we're just requesting a
variance in that regard also um there is
not a requirement for a parking variance
based on the fact that we had calculated
based on an erroneous higher number of
units now that we've put in the proper
number of units there is no parking
variance required unlike some pretty
much all the other uh recent cases
around here we'll talk about that more
in just a second so I just want to be
clear that what we're seeking today uh
your action on is a vote uh or whenever
you vote is a certificate of
appropriateness overall and then three
variances and those three variances
would be the maximum height which is for
six stories uh the maximum required
depth of a public space and then the
maximum what say that more slowly
maximum required depth of public space
and that's for the front of the building
and I'm going to get into this in way
more detail and a minimum building width
along the primary Frontage so those are
the three and let me quickly ask you to
just give us a couple sentences what's
the difference between a special permit
request and a request for variance so so
essentially there is a different set of
criteria and um we have a legal here as
well uh if you need a further
explanation that I'll give you the
planner's explanation uh there is a case
law set of variance criteria that go
into most every code that are dictated
well beyond the the borders of Bexley
and that is a criteria that any Board of
zoning whether it's a a board of zoning
appeals or such as yourself a board of
zoning and planning would utilize to
decide if you can vary from a code and
those are uh cified in our zoning code
just as they are in most every Ohio zley
city code has a set of Standards which
which we're all familiar with but the
audience may or may not be but right um
our code also has a different set of
criteria which depending on your
interpretation may be deemed to be a
less rigorous set but that's really up
to uh each person's interpretation to
allow a special permit and the reason
that that was put in place is that there
was an encouragement that if the
standards and guidelines were met Ong
the corridor that it would be often
times quite appropriate and even maybe
preferred to exceed the three-story
limit up to five stories and that's
pretty much where we stand Katherine can
explain anything further from a legal
standpoint if you need that's good
explanation okay so with that let me get
into the overall uh evaluation of the
project what we do in all these cases is
that we compare any evaluation and any
any application to both the zoning code
and plans that have been put in place
for the city um if you could just Kathy
or Karen just call up the um the site
plan it might make it easier as I go
through some of these
explanations um I won't go through all
the the iterative explanation that's
already taken place Karen did a great
job of that where we are in the process
what I will start off with is just to
point out a couple ways that this
project conforms to a number of plans
that are in place throughout the city
one of the things that's a difficult
Challenge and this isn't just here in
Bexley this is in every Community I've
ever worked in including boards and
commissions on which I'm on your side of
the table um typically and
understandably uh most people in a
community don't pay a whole lot of
attention to things that aren't directly
adjacent or affecting them until it is
adjacent affecting them that doesn't
mean that there's not a lot of planning
that takes place ahead of time and
Bexley is a proactive planning community
and has been working through a series of
plans and design guidelines and Zoning
updates in order to imagine what really
all parts of the city may eventually
evolve into and Main Street is certainly
not only is it no different it's been a
focus of many of those plans uh the
Bexley Main Street design guidelines
have been in place since 2004
encouraging mixed use multistory
development uh primarily up to the
street hiding parking to the rear
creating an active pedestrian
environment along Main Street and we've
seen a lot of different velopments that
have happened and fit into that uh two
that are most relevant here would be the
Bexley Gateway and the Alexander uh sort
of as one unit and then the Market
District where the Giant Eagle Market
District went on the site of the Old
City Hall um of course Bexley Square
where we're sitting now used to also be
a different type of development that
really was really Suburban in nature and
it's sort of been modified now to be a
little more Civic and uh the idea is
hopefully to to create even better
streetscape in front of that so just a
few plans that are out there and I'm not
going to get into every Nuance of how
this applies that being said there is a
Bexley strategic plan and a Bexley land
use strategy and there's actually going
on right now a strategic Plan update for
2023 which has had quite a bit of um
surveying of the community and Public
Work sessions actually there are some
things that are up around the room and
there have been other work sessions uh
about that and the things that are being
expressed are really in line with the
sentiments of guidelines and the way
that we pulled a lot of those guidelines
into the zoning code update which
happened about five or six years ago
what the result is is that essentially
the the the majority of the feedback
we've gotten back over the years is that
there's a strong desire to create this
mixed use and in in cases where we can
double loaded Main Street what I mean by
that is to have activity on both sides
and to create sort of that real Main
Street feel where you have a walking
pedestrian environment that also
includes some uses that people have said
we don't have enough of in addition
there has been a pretty strong
expression to have a variety of housing
types uh while Bexley is an amazing
community in many ways one of the things
that we don't have is a really wide
variety of different styles and um sizes
of housing to accommodate what we like
to call Ag in place in the planning
World somebody a place where someone can
live sort of at different stages of life
and not just at certain stages um so
there's a whole host of those in the
staff report I won't go through each and
every one of those uh outlining how this
fits into all of those existing plans um
the major thing for us though in the Bap
which is most important is reviewing
against the zoning code and what we did
as you are aware I don't know if the
audience is aware having had the me the
Bexley Main Street design guidelines in
place since 2004 we had plenty of
opportunities to develop different
projects all throughout the corridor and
that included things like the earlier
grammar C and A number of other projects
that took place and the thing about
guidelines is they're very useful
because they have flexibility and when
you first put them in place it's very
common that you may have some areas of
friction where the community may or may
not understand all of the things that
are most important to the community that
should be applied most consistently in
every project and so guidelines aren't
zoning which means you don't have to get
a variance it's more about you look at
the guidelines and then you make an
interpretation of what you think is most
important and you apply those and that
worked very well for us for uh you know
well over a decade that being said one
of the challenges with that is that if
someone comes in and wants to do a
project that really isn't in conformance
with that say for instance someone
wanted to do maybe like a traditional
fast food restaurant and that we don't
think would fit in so well with the with
the characteristics of Main Street we
would have a hard time enforcing all
those guidelines because they're not
codified they're just guidelines so what
we decided to do as a community through
a resoning process is we took a number
of those the ones that we thought were
the most important ones and we made them
into the code so what we now do and
you'll see in the the staff report is we
prepare a checklist for you for every
one of these applications that that
involves some complexity and we show you
how they have met or haven't met those
criteria that we P we've brought into
the code so in this case what we've done
is we've evaluated in that manner and
this is largely in conformance with
those standards that we brought into the
code there are some that are
undetermined yet which is very typical
in a project of this size um we have
further iterations of details that still
have to take place and we'll outline
what those are um you know things like
exterior lighting and the height of
parking lot light stanions and awnings
and future signage all those things that
would be deferred to later which is very
typical in in any kind of mixed use case
and oftentimes because the tendency
isn't understood and different different
things like that um in that regard
though what we do have is a a building
that is progressed very far toward its
its design and we can in uh in fact go
through the process to determine whether
it meets those criteria which which we
have done so what we um are recommending
is approval with conditions the same as
both the ARB and the tree and public
garden have done and we have a quite an
extensive set of conditions and I've got
a lot to talk about before we get there
so uh bear with me as I dive through I
made it through page page two of 10 so
I'll try and speed it
up um I'm not going to tell you where
the site I'm might C you off if it goes
too long we all know where the site is
we know that one of the other things to
understand about this is in our zoning
code we have What's called the MS zoning
and that is the main street zoning and
it basically overlays a number of other
zoning districts All Along The Main
Street cdor and this is where the Main
Street standards apply so what we did
look at one one of the many
characteristics was site impacts so we
we try to understand how the building
would impact the overall uh the overall
site and the characteristics of Main
Street and there are a number of factors
we have to consider um location and size
of public spaces the way it addresses
Main Street Building massing uh site
access for passengers Service delivery
vehicles Transit users pedestrians
bicyclists um and then the impact on the
adjacent sidewalk and streetcape and the
way that it interfaces overall with the
the corridor and the process by which we
could establish whether or not it
actually will function in that
Corridor um the other thing that we did
is we had as we went through this
iterative process changes that we had
discussed with the applicant in these
public meetings and they have made a
number of changes and I just want to
point out a few of those because I know
a lot of folks are here from the earlier
meeting and uh you've seen some things
before and I think the applicant will
also be able to address and get into any
of these details that being said some uh
early commenters were very concerned
about the vehicular access back to
Brighton and I want to point out that
that has now been eliminated as a
vehicular access and is now a pedestrian
bicycling access so that uh is no longer
uh relevant as far as a concern uh not
to say people don't have other concerns
but I know a lot of people were
specifically concerned about that
another thing was that uh something that
we were encouraging as a staff and still
wish could be done there is initially a
cross access easement that went from the
rear lot into the Beckley City Hall
Beckley Square lot uh one of the primary
tenants of our efforts here throughout
the Main Street Corridor as far as
vehicular circulation is to try to link
all these these spaces together to try
and equitably distribute traffic and to
take some of those extra turning
movements off of Main Street um there
was a negotiation between the applicant
and some the adjacent Property Owners um
who felt they had some legal rights in
order to restrict that the applicant has
acques to that and you know as a staff
we're okay we don't think it's it's a
Make It or Break It for the project
we're okay with that being closed off um
that being said you know that just does
add just a little bit more of the
vehicular movements to the other exess
and entry points so I think that's the
trade-off we have to understand the way
they've also altered this since your
earlier uh earlier review is they've
created more uh access points too now
into the garage areas from the Beckley
Square Beckley City Hall parking lot and
that will facilitate a better sharing of
parking which is one of the things that
we're really interested in the other
thing that we encouraged as a city is
the removal of the right turn only lane
out of this parking lot uh we've seen
that for quite some time as uh you know
potential and and actual safety conflict
with pedestrians there uh also trying to
if you've ever noticed is a very kind of
an awkward placement of a bike share
there it's it's a little bit of a
difficult spot and with potentially
increased traffic volumes uh we
encourage that in exchange for creating
a curb cut along Main Street on the
other side of the building we discourage
additional curb Cuts in fact in the code
you're not allowed to create additional
curb Cuts without a variance so what
we've done is we've swapped a curb cut
down to the other end of the parking or
other end of the site in order to to
provide direct uh Main Street access to
facilitate access both for vehicles and
for uh trucks that may need to service
the restaurants and on the west side of
the building on the west side of the
building correct uh you see there is a
small surface parking area in the rear
most of the parking is contained within
the unit uh and a lower story and an
upper story so almost all the parking is
within the actual structure itself with
some of it being external there was a
traffic study initially that was
conducted and that was updated based on
the revisions that were requested uh I
will also say that the very first
proposal had two buildings this has been
Consolidated one building and somewhat
narrowed in order to do U two things one
it allow a little more relief on both
sides and also they're used to be a
parking deck that was a kind of a half
level parking deck that went almost all
the way to the rear property line that
has now been incorporated into the
building which now pulls that back to be
a surface lot and by our code that is
required to be screened with a fence and
there's also Landscaping that would take
place in the rear area uh based on the
parking study there was a traffic study
rather that was done and it was updated
and uh we've had a traffic engineer
review that traffic study and agrees
with the overall findings of the traffic
study I've included one two three four
five six seven eight uh very technical
comments that were made um that I'm
happy to go over if anyone has any
questions though I won't uh if no one
does because they're quite
technical we we we have a traffic
engineer here that can give you a full
presentation on the traffic study we
reviewed the traffic study and agreed
with their findings with these eight
technical Provisions that will have to
go through the process of of working out
the last details of peak hour and and
Signal optimization and a lot of traffic
engineering and we we'll talk and the
applicant can talk about that and really
whatever length the be app is is
concerned about all right and let me ask
you once again just to reiterate about
the quick the the road that goes out to
brighten yes that road up at the top
please what did you say about that again
just so I make sure I understand that
there is no longer vehicular access it
is now pedestrian and bike access okay
okay thank great I believe emergency
access could could could use that as
well I'll let the applicant address that
are the entrances from the Beckley
Square City Hall area there entrance and
exit or just entrance uh those are into
the garage and I believe I believe there
are two way is that not correct yeah I
know they'll get into more but I know
everybody here needs to understand but
we really need to understand since we're
going to vote eventually here so yeah
all right absolutely thank you so I
apologize for the disruption there and
um again I won't go through every one of
the considerations with regard to the
Main Street design standards they are
either all met or U TBD for things like
mechanical screening the caliper of the
final trees to be planted and that's
very typical that we would determine
those uh as we finalize the design right
there are the few things I do want to
talk about with regard to the ones that
are not met which is why they would
require a variance and so I want to go
through those specifically um the first
one that is not met is the minimum
building setback along public rights
away so it's zero feet with a maximum of
10 feet except where what we call is a
public private setback Zone and what we
mean by that and you'll see throughout
other areas is a place that could have
some sort of uh public parklike or Plaza
atmosphere or function similar to what
you see right next to the Drexel there
are the idea is we want to create these
small little pocket areas and in this
case what the ARB requested was a more
definitive entry way to the building
that is only allowed to go back 20 feet
by our
Cod yeah um yeah sure I think we're in a
second though yeah if you can just
circle the area I'm talking about there
Karen right in the middle so basically
by our code that's only allowed to
recess 20 feet and and the reason for
that is the code really does encourage
the um sort of that traditional mixed
building form along the frontage and uh
um doesn't want someone to kind of flout
that by having very little amount of the
building at the line and most of it set
really far back uh in this case the ARB
specifically requested this and we
support this change in the fact that it
does create that Plaza space and it
allows a more definitive and distinct
entryway to the building and we don't
think that this change is significant
and we think it's a positive so as staff
we would support that that being said
you have to determine if you support it
based on the variance criteria um the
second one is the width of a principal
building along the primary building
Frontage and um that requirement is that
it be a minimum of 80% of the lot width
again this was done in order to
encourage buildings that create the
continuous streetcape and not get
something like a traditional like what
you call a fast food you know footprint
we don't want that that being said what
happened here um uh is that
in the changes that were requested by
the ARB the building shrunk a little on
the sides in order to allow more more uh
essentially Green Space and relief on
both sides that was a request by them to
change the nature of the building and
the other thing that's unusual about
this is that we have a two-way curb cut
on the same site which you usually we
discouraged on Main Street we feel is
necessary here and is a swap for
eliminating another curb cut that was
right off the site so due to that this
building is only 70 5% of the width
instead of 80% again we consider that
pretty minimal and well within what we
would think is the spirit of what we're
were trying to achieve again that's for
you to determine based on the variance
criteria um the other one the only other
one which again apologies for
incorrectly entering their their um
parking count was the uh minimum parking
so I'm might well just talk about
parking while I'm there so even though
they don't need a variance let me just
describe to you because it's always a
big question what's happening with
parking um one of the things to point
out is that it is extremely unusual for
a developed Corridor in um you know
developed commercial mixed juice
Corridor to be able to find a spot to
accommodate 300 plus parking spaces that
is a big win for the city and that
that's I mean in the short North that
that is you know that it's hard to find
that and especially to do it in a way
where you don't have a huge parking
garage that's stacked up out of the
ground it's it's really quite unusual so
that I think is the is kind of the first
thing to realize that we are getting um
you know this this large amount of
parking spaces so what we are having
this is public parking space it's it's
shared parking shared so public can
access it and the residents can access
it obviously yeah so there have to be a
shared parking agreement in order for
the parking counts to not require a
variance and the way it works is that we
have just in every zoning code almost
some zoning codes are actually
eliminating parking we haven't gotten to
that part yet part yet no so in our
zoning code just like every other zoning
code there is a requirement for each of
the individual uses uh you know retail
is three spaces per thousand restaurant
is four spaces per thousand office is
2.5 spaces per thousand and residential
is 1.5 spaces per unit and that's
codified within uh 1254 13 which are the
main street uh standards so if you add
all that up together the raw number
before we start reducing based on our
code um gives us a total and then what
we do is we go through all of the
credits that are allowed in our code and
encouraged in our code uh that's 448
before that 4 48.8 so then oh actually
I'm sorry it is not that anymore hold on
because I had the wrong
number it is in fact um
41880
48.8 and that's what
48.8 4 418 point8 so we would round up
so it' be 419 okay that being said um
that's required parner spaces under the
code well that's require that's not
required code that's the raw calculation
of the required spaces before the
deductions which are part of the code as
well okay so also in the code so just as
valid and intended to in order to
facilitate development along Main Street
we allow uh on street parking every on
street parking in front to count as a
half space and we have kind of have 13
here but it doesn't really matter
because you have to round according to
our code to the nearest whole number so
I counted 12 of those spaces are you
taking the three or four that we're
going to lose uh I have not but we can
and it still actually wouldn't require
trigger variance but that's good point
so say we lost four so that would be two
less um if if without that it's it's a
reduction of six it could be a reduction
reduction of four so so we can we can
change that um cross access easement you
are allowed for every cross access
easement you have which means the
ability for your parking lot to connect
to another entry point in the rear you
get two they had had two of those so
they would have gotten four they only
have one so they get two but really the
most significant one the one that is is
the most impactful is that if you
execute a shared use parking agreement
and this can actually be among different
sites so it's very unusual um even that
this you know most most of their uses
are on one site and then of course the
other shared would be the contiguous
site of Bexley square and City Hall and
all the uses there and and the Alexander
as well um that you can take 30% off of
your most uh Mo the highest use
basically the highest count use you can
take 30% off as shared because it's been
shown through Myriad studies through the
Institute of traffic engineering and all
of their mixed use traffic calculations
that that is what actually happens and I
think while everybody becomes very
concerned about parking the reality is
that and this is a true statement people
think I'm lying but this is actually
true
95% of the time a parking space is
vacant so basically we have one in 20
parking spaces in the United States are
being used at any given time now I don't
anticipate that being the case here
because that takes into account Walmarts
and all kinds of things that being said
um parking the the parking standards
that we have our code are very
reasonable and very much in keeping with
the way that mixed use corridors are
calculated the one thing we also like to
point out is even when this did require
we thought it required a variance which
was only for a few spots it no longer
does require a variance which is unlike
the most recent projects along this
Corridor um the main Market District did
require a variance of 30 spaces um which
you know we held helped to accommodate
through some shared use but it was
required to have 120 and uh we granted
variance for 90 um the as as far as we
can tell it was a long time ago in the
zoning but as far as we can tell we
don't think that there was a variance
required for Beckley Gateway and the
Alexander however part of the way they
were able to accommodate those the
requirement was by designating um spaces
on South Gateway so they have 21.75
spaces in the records that we found on
South Gateway which are still in use and
it's just kind of been a fortuitous
circumstance in from a parking
standpoint that that hasn't been
developed that being said there's been a
heavy interest over the years and I
think has been iterated by many
residents and participants in all the
steering committees for strategic plans
that there is a development that occurs
there so those will be lost and I'm not
to say not to say that that uh means
that you should encourage things to not
have adequate parking but I guess the
important thing to note is this is rare
to not need a parking variance in this
Corridor um where almost everything does
and that's just pretty typical that's
the way it works in uh in mixed use core
all right well thanks for that
explanation sure or do you want me to
wait till the end oh no yeah sure go
ahead so what about the what about the
sorry what about the 20 spots that
they're going to lose out of this lot
because of the design so how how do we
count take into account those yeah I
mean that's uh that is a great question
and that is technically not required as
part of their very because it's on their
lot and this is a separate lot now that
being said we I mean are they but are
they granting cross access with us so
therefore the the the 20 plus spots that
we're losing would count towards that
count in the in the other garage it it
does not count it does no that being
said um we have let me see they're
required to have
306 and they are providing 315 on site
um and ours it just I mean it's just not
the way the code works that being said
you can think about that when you're
considering whether or not the overall
project is appropriate so is is the
shared parking agreement in place no it
is not but it it has to be in order for
this project to proceed based on the
considerations that we've put in so if
you pass or vote based on the the
criteria that we've put in our our uh
recommendations then it would have to be
in place in order for this to work yeah
it would be a condition essentially
correct okay yeah and that's you know at
your discretion clearly and so that's
really up to you you know and you can
you can consider that in your
deliberation uh that's just not the way
the code actually works so yeah okay so
I'm sorry one more time yeah so they
have
three they on going into the microphone
better 315 they're in currently not
including Bexley Plaza right what what
are what's the count that that we they
need 306 so they need 306 okay right uh
307 because it's 36.4 so that we'd round
that up so it would be
307 yeah so there would basically be
eight eight in excess so but I guess if
you know if they lost credit for two
then there would only be six in excess
so theoretically they could be down
14 um if if in fact the final
configuration for our lot is 20 less
that being said the final configuration
of that lot has yet to be finally
approved and determined it's
conceptually approved by the cic and
Beckley the city of Bexley but it hasn't
been formally adopted yet and Jason do
we know if 20 is the number we're losing
because I seem to remember it less again
that hasn't been finalized yet um
regardless in the scheme of a mixed use
development that is not a lot of spaces
it's a few spaces here or there the way
that this overall thing is going to
function you know I've been I've seen a
lot of plans and and hundreds of
developments
and they don't hinge on four to 12 to 20
spaces when you're talking about 300
spaces they you know that that's more of
a number that it hinges on when you're
talking about you know 50 60 70% of the
lot when you have a tiny little use yeah
this a this a this a good volume of
parking really is yeah I thought I
recall a lower speak into the microphone
please I recall a lower number around
seven in the plans that we reviewed of
uh options so we're still working on
that okay I'm just going off the site
plan here which shows 50 and there's 70
70 out there yeah no that's fair yeah
that's totally fair um and so um the the
other things that I did want to point
out uh Karen's already covered the ARB
uh aspects the one thing that we would
recommend and um again we can talk more
about this from legal if if you prefer
to is that while we are recommending
that you remand the case back to the B
to the ARB Anri public garden commission
uh for final review of any changes
resulting from the results here we
recommend that you remain the final
decision maker so that you receive
recommendations from them and you make
the final decision um that is uh the way
that the code was set up to prefer that
these mixed use cases be determined
which is why you're hearing all of these
and you know we think that consolidating
that all would make it the easiest for
you to yeah that makes more
procedural sense yes so with that I can
answer any other specific questions that
you have about this I will point to page
nine has the variance criteria in case
you've forgotten what those are um I'll
let you decide whether you want to read
those aloud to the folks in the audience
um but those are again standard legal
variance criteria that exist in in
almost every every code and then I do
have a a set of 10 staff recommendations
if you should choose to act on this
tonight and um I will paraphrase those
now knowing that we'll have to read them
specifically into the record if you
choose to act so I'm just going to speak
real quickly on this because we know we
have a ton of people that want to talk
um those 10 things if you choose to act
would be that um the final plan
modifications for Bexley Square parking
are um would be coordinated with the
city of Bexley and the Bexley cic and
that would include any outcomes from any
modifications of a traffic study we also
recommend that the applicant does use
the architecture board architecture
review board recommendations um 1
through eight and then the ninth one
which was about having them have final
approval modify that slightly to say you
would want to remand it back to them for
their design review uh we also recommend
that you uh accept the recommendation
that's the the really the medius
recommendation number two in the
landscape uh plan review from the tree
and public garden commission which has a
whole host of criteria that also
includes uh what they have determined
and the applicant has agreed to a fee in
L or a fee in I guess not in l a fee in
order to um compensate for the loss of
many of the trees um there are a number
of large trees on this site and again we
we love trees and we also know that
there is a balancing act that we have to
has to take place here um not
to not to point fault at any previous or
current or however any of these
applications have worked um you know we
found the old application for Gateway in
the Alexander and there were also 34
trees on that site and of those trees
you know seven or eight of them were 24
to 30 inch trees and that's that's the
balance we have to decide as a community
there aren't that many of these sites
and if if we're going to redevelop these
sites unfortunately that typically means
that the trees that are on that site at
that point can no longer remain and
that's just a decision that the board
has to make um the fifth one would be or
that again about remanding to the tree
and public garden commission for review
the sixth is the applicant would
collaborate with staff on the final
design review for that West Main curb
cut the one thing that we are a little
concerned about in any situation where
you have a right in write out is that
you can get into a pretty um chunky and
rough looking what they call pork chop
uh there are also very nice versions of
that and uh there are numerous examples
in other communities including in um New
Albany Upper Arlington uh where they've
done a really nice job of creating
functional versions of that kind of
expanse we want to make sure that is is
up to our our streetscape standard um
there's also a code requirement for
bicycle racks they'll have to complete
those to meet the code standard I think
based on their square footage and number
of units I think that ends up being the
maximum of 12 um so they'll have to put
those in a place where we feel that's
appropriate of Staff um the shared
parking agreement as you asked about
will have to be submitted and it have to
be your to your satisfaction in order
for that for this to be approved based
on these criteria um the one thing that
I had mentioned earlier the final review
of this would not include things that
would have to come back to the relevant
boards and commissions including signage
awnings exterior building lighting
exterior parking lot lighting fencing
details and building mechanical
screening details and those are all
things that are listed as TBD in our
review of this according to the Main
Street guidelines and that the final
one's kind of a boiler plate just that
everything that basically they turn in
today would be the things that they were
held to so all the all the application
materials at this meeting are the things
that they would have to match and if
they deviated wildly from those then we
would have to come in and have you
decide if those are appropriate so I
apologize for the very lengthy staff
report uh explanation happy to answer
any of your questions now or I will
obviously be here all night happy to
answer any questions as we go Jason for
the sake of uh the board and our
neighbors here could you please uh read
the factors that we have to determine
this tonight uh the the uh the variance
Criterion okay so the factors for you to
determine the overall just so everybody
understands the distinction the overall
approval really is your own
interpretation of the Main Street design
standards that are in the code that
being said for the few items that
require a variance which are those three
items there are seven variance criteria
the first is whether the property in
question will yield a reasonable return
or whether there can be any beneficial
use of the property without the variance
two whether the variance is substantial
three whether the essential character of
the neighborhood would be substantially
altered or whether adjoining properties
would suffer a substantial detriment as
a result of the variance four whether
the variance would adversely affect the
delivery of government service EG water
sewer garbage fifth whether the property
owner purchase the property with
knowledge of the zoning restriction for
whether the property owner's predicament
feasibly can be obviated through some
method other than a variance and seven
whether the spirit and intent behind the
zoning requirement would be observed and
substantial Justice Done by granting the
VAR and I will let Catherine explain
what that what you actually consider in
there um as opposed to whether it's all
or some or how that works balance it's a
balancing sorry
right balancing you do not have to find
that
every aspect criteria is met um you're
well familiar with that process you it's
a weighing these are factors that you
are directed to consider among whatever
other considerations that you have based
on the Main Street guidelines and other
things those all apply in in this bucket
list of things right so in other words
the statute requires the board of zoning
and planning to consider all seven of
those
things however none of them are
conclusory right
and um it's a it's once again sort of a
balancing act that we are to make a
determination about and those are the
things that we need to balance right
what was just read by Jason okay I think
members of the board Matt you haven't
been here as long as some of us have
been but you got the idea I did I just
had one
question one of the variances that you
spoke about at the beginning was height
but I don't believe we've talked about
that yet yeah that's a great point so um
yes it is so um initially and and Karen
can actually speak to this uh more in
more detail from the regard to the the
ARB changes when as soon as they decided
in conjunction with the ARB to go to a
six story then it requires you to use
that same six or that same seven set of
criteria in order to determine if that
is is appropriate um by right they are
allowed three stories a special permit
could have gotten them to five which is
a different set of criteria but since
it's exceeding that you're in this exact
same set of criteria so um I'll that's
really all I have to say about it but
then Karen you can speak to it further
yeah it it we included that in our
conditions of the record of action that
we took last night that the board the
architect when you say we you know the
architecture review board thank you
sorry um and I'm happy to go through any
of them they're very they're specific
design details but the one that is
really important to your job here is
that along the four-month process and
the design process and reviews and
Workshops the board the architect review
board along with the applicant came to
the conclusion that it was worth asking
for a variance toward Main Street for
the sixth floor in order to give the
building some relief on the backside and
and they have done that there has been
some um notching out of and we can go
through this to the extent that you'd
like now there were conditions that asks
for a little more of that in the
architecture review um in the Roa and
and I can go through that r o a just put
record of action record of action thank
sorry Karen can you just put up an
elevation it yeah that would help show
them of what you're talking about you
don't have to go in great detail just
general explanation so you can see that
there's a six story that's on the front
of the building um that was asked for by
our board to in to to look into it and
and to explore that possibility in
return for let me get to some of the
back
elevations um well there's a good one
here that that you can see this um this
corner was was cut out
so that the back elevation had some
relief and the west elevation and East
Elevation on the on the North sides um
when you say relief you mean being
monolithic entire right that entire this
entire space was notched out now there's
discussion last night and part of the
conditions that the applicant needs to
look at doing a little more of that and
stepping it back a little more um a
little too a lot I mean we're that's
that's part of what will go back to the
architecture review board um but that
that was the intent of the architecture
review board to ask to to explore um a
sixf floor variance toward the front so
that that can happen in the back Karen
could you please give us a little
insight why was ARB concerned with the
northwest corner well there we ARB was
concerned with North and the Northeast
and West North West Corners and the west
elevation toward the back of the
property because of the um adjacencies
to Residential
Properties so the the houses on brighten
that back that are on the south side of
Brien back into this view from their
backyards and and frankly it's also
better designed to have um some variety
and not just a monolithic building so
you know we we were very try trying to
be very sensitive to the residential
abutments but also it's just better
designed this way any anyway it's really
nice to have some rooftop gardens and
and you can also see and we don't need
to get into this because um you know we
heard it and a lot of you were here last
night but things like these cornice
details were pulled down to give a a
lower hold on wait a second
now can you hear back there or not say
no no you can't
hear thank you can you hear
me
all right thank you so things like the
cornice details I mean there's a vast
difference between what was before us
what was submitted in July heard in
August and to now and I did put together
a graphic of that but you know if if
you'd like to see it at some point
tonight that's fine but that's kind of
the that's the summary of why okay our
board encouraged a sixth floor toward
the front of the
building
okay are we ready to hear from the
applicant Kathy you think that's the
right order of operation here that's
what we would ordinarily do I think
no no there is there is
yeah all right M gez Mr Cass do who do
you want to uh I know you want to come
up but and you have any other folks you
want to come up on your behalf as well
okay Ryan you want to come up now or
come on
up no I'm going to remind you all when
we did that mass swearing in at the
beginning you are sworn in so your
testimony is now under oath just to make
sure everybody knows your testimony is
going to be under oath as you speak and
this is a quasi judicial body meaning
that we have to abide by certain rules
and
regulations evidentiary rules
Etc and please let me know what slides
you would like up as you go
through been up the
longest there you
go all right so please identify yourself
for the record I'm Frank Cass can you
hear me can everybody in the back hear
Mr Cass okay thank you and Mr Cash your
position is for the record your position
is X Y and Z Continental estate
companies I started it 50 years ago
thank you I just want I'm just trying to
create a record you understand yeah good
thank you um f first of all thank you
all um it's been an arduous process and
I hope it ends um someday soon um I want
to particularly thank
ARB um they have U been involved with us
uh on an intimate basis um now for
several months at the building um is a
heck of a lot better looking as a result
of it um and I I thank Karen for
shepherding that and and the entire ARB
uh staff and staff that have been
involved with us um this not a process
we're actually very used to and I've
probably developed 200 buildings from
coast to coast and this one's in my
backyard I live about three blocks from
here and and uh it it's been uh parts of
it have been fun and parts of have been
less than fun um but I think we're
making great progress so uh um I just
wanted to uh thank everybody and
understand that that uh we feel that um
the building we're now coming to you
with is uh um very very important um to
the city of Bexley I promise you in in
my heart of hearts it's more important
to the city of Bexley than it is to
Frank Cass okay um I want to point out a
couple things um I'm sorry for the
history but um when I hear the people
that have spoken against this from the
beginning some of whom have lived in
Bexley for you know five years and some
for seven and some for 12 um and they
refer to this process is changing Bexley
forever and they say that as a negative
and I get a smile on my face because
it's a positive um I started in Bexley
in 1948 at montro Elementary it was the
only Elementary School at that time we
had a trolley running down Main Street
there were five gas stations if your
mother took you out to dinner you ate at
the Feed Bag does anybody remember the
Feed Bag
um okay so the the Feed Bag is where the
bathrooms are at the Drexel Theater um I
gave that site to the drexal theater
it's actually part of the the the Giant
Eagle piece um and that was the feedback
um we're sitting today in Lex mayor
Chevrolet um that then became Roger Dean
Chevrolet who got smart and move to
Florida has about 10 dealerships there
his family does um four or five G gas
stations four pharmacies most of them
had soda fountains um this was where you
ate in Bexley um the glass bowl was at
cassingham Bexley um that's where young
people went for a
hamburger um it's ironic to me that half
the people here that are going to speak
against us this evening um live in uh
the
Alexander um that's why I wanted that
slide up if you look at our building I
actually look if you would just west of
Parkview those three buildings um have
been there now um not the bank but the
three behind it pretty big buildings um
they were built here start first one
1965 uh happened to know that because I
actually lived in it for one year okay
um and and found out it was not a
building for a 22 year old um and and uh
that was the one time I moved out of
Bexley and went went to wine. East um
the Alexander I built the Alexander for
Plaza Properties um just for your
edification for 70 years that was a
funeral home it was about 5,000 square
feet it had probably 25 or 30 Big Trees
on the site there's now one tree one
tree on the Alexander property yet
everybody wants to talk about what we're
doing here um and when the Alexander and
the Gateway in front were going through
the zoning process everybody up and down
Parkview and brighten and everybody else
was against it and spoke against it and
gave it a problem um three friends of
ours um and I built and my wife and I
built the grammar SE um I'll never
forget it was Old City Hall and at two
in the morning we got out of there
joseppi stayed open and we all went over
for a drink um as we got zoned for city
hall now I understood all the people
behind it were arguing because we were
going to cut off their sunlight forever
uh and now we have four families living
there instead of in the short North a
bookstore and kitties and it's
everybody's hangout when I built the
Giant Eagle the taxes from the Giant
Eagle built the buildings you're in
today and the leaf building or the
service building that's on delmare again
people came out of the woodwork my
problem with all this as a developer and
so I'm not looking at it on an even Kil
I get that okay but as a
developer um I feel that when people buy
a home and they buy a home next to the
only retail zoning within the city that
anyone knows about we actually have a
little strip on Livingston Avenue that
nobody considers part of Bexley we got a
half mile of retail Frontage here you
know Jason said we'd like it to be toos
sided eventually Capital wood too you
know and and and uh um so it's like when
you buy a home there when you buy a home
behind the alley on Sherwood behind the
gramarcy expect the rumy truck to be
digging its dingers at at 5:15 in the
morning as it's picking up trash from
from uh the restaurants on that street
when you're buying a home on short
brighten you you have buildings that
might be put up here on on Main Street
that's happening and that's who's here
to talk against us today which I
appreciate okay I also appreciate that
I've had hundreds of phone calls from
people that want this property want this
project when we started this project we
were told by many people what they want
is some more restaurants here we're
bringing in a Cameron Mitchell
restaurant I'm meeting with them on the
14th of December to finalize it don't
know what it's going to be okay it could
be a Hudson 29 but they're also thinking
of an Avenue Steakhouse like they have
in Grand View we've got an today a
letter of intent from I don't know what
it's called BB Bop bbop whatever okay um
that seems to be something the young
people like and we also have had
interest from First Watch for a
breakfast operation um we're dealing
with a a very very large well uh known U
medical uh Center that wants to be here
in 7,000 feet above the restaurant that
would have internal medicine a family
practice their own lab all here on the
site all things when we started talking
to the city was on the list of what
people have asked for in this
neighborhood finally we've had a dozen
phone calls from people little younger
than I am uh don't feel they're ready to
move in to Park View arms but they
definitely wouldn't mind selling their
house and staying in Baxley and renting
not buying we're going to have an that's
particularly the sixth floor will be
perfect for that we have a few pen
houses up there because we have big
patios off of the the the the uh
building part the the uh enclosure part
of the building um many people that want
to do that we've had a lot of families
that said boy I would really like a
place for my Bexley high school college
graduate that's getting a job in
Columbus Ohio to be able to live in
their Hometown you know helps get Bexley
younger helps have a life cycle of
people staying here that then can buy
the homes within the city uh when when
uh uh the time when the time comes for
them so from from my perspective I think
this is probably the largest project
that uh has ever been here private
project in Bexley um Jason alluded to
you know three acres you don't find
three acres and and uh um we're
fortunate that that capital is willing
to to to sell this um property that's
not being used anymore the apartments if
you've seen the condition of them that
they're they're not great I would also
say to you that part of the variances
we're asking for here really all of the
variances we're asking for are a result
are a result of our meeting uh and the
requests of the ARB correct me I'm wrong
but they want it a little higher you've
heard Jason say we're narrowing the
building because people ask for that
another reason to make it higher you
know we have 232 apartments right now um
and and uh um that those will be
apartments for for empty nesters at both
ends you know um we by the way we are
restricted by the schools to having no
less no more than 15 kids in the
apartment project school age okay I
that's because they were kind enough to
give us a tip which has now been
approved by the schools which give us
the dollars we need to build the garage
here's the other thing you mentioned it
but I just want to drive this one home
you're not going to see this
garage it's unbelievable 300 cars you're
going to see the entry you're not going
to see an open garage you know we've
surrounded it and and it it's partially
underground expensive um but but it's
going to be just a great great venue for
people to come live um and and to to
utilize the medical facility the
restaurants and and uh um to coexist in
downtown Beckley and uh I think that
that uh um to me um that's really a a
success and we're very pleased to be
able to uh to do it uh Ryan Pearson
who's a a planner with Edge group that
we've worked with since 2008 is kind of
presenting our plan and you'll see how
far the buildings come since you all had
a quick look at it a few months back
thank you
I will say that just from a initial look
see it's a lot more attractive than what
we saw in August thank you for working
with the ARB and thank theb it's it's a
lot better makes it more uh interesting
a lot more interesting thank you thank
you sir Ryan hi there Ryan Pearson with
the edge group 330 West Spring Street um
and the EDG group does what EDG group
land planning landscape architecture
okay yeah thank you Ryan just tell me
what you want pull up the the first The
Edge Bap slides the first one speak
sorry about
that so I know that Karen went through a
brief um history of the slides but go
ahead and advance to the next um flip
back microphone up toward your mouth a
little bit it's sensitive but I'm going
to step through just a few of the
changes that have happened over the
three months that we've been working
with the ARB and the uh tree and public
gardens commission um this was the
original plan actually we had a plan
before this it was based on the initial
concept um when the project was awarded
in
June um we submitted a plan in July this
plan was submitted in O in August 10th
um for that August 24th informal hearing
that that we all saw so this is the last
plan that you all would have seen in the
public hearing um a few things there was
a trash compactor in the northwest
corner
um we did have a small one-way um
controlled access here that just
directed traffic to the South we did
have as Jason mentioned uh two-way
traffic up here in the northeast corner
that connected the parking lots through
the the back of the parcels um the
basement access the ramp access from the
lower level and the upper level all
remain the same um you'll see that in
the later slides um we had Street trees
at 40 feet 44 feet on that we thought
was um consistent with the rest of the
streetscape so there's a few changes
that you're going to see um in the next
slide um I guess the other piece was at
that time we had a vehicular exit right
and we also had that upper garage
entrance on the North facade because we
had the the two-way motion next
slide um so we went through several
iterations um in October this was really
in in preparation for that um that work
session with ar B um we used that last
plan for the informal meetings with tree
and public gardens ARB informal and this
body so some of the changes based on
what we heard was the the Central Plaza
um we also stepped the building several
times on the East Main facade um as
Karen mentioned that six story came into
play at that time for that that um work
session meeting um at that time we were
adding some plantings and and um
buffering I guess down through that
Western Property Line we were getting
into more detail along the north um the
trash compactor did move into the
internal piece of the building so
there's a location at the lower level or
the basement level approximately this
point opposite of that on the upper
level garage and then there there is a
third compactor to service the
restaurant and retail on Main Street um
at that time we did limit access to one
way just heading from this Western
parking lot to the East and that had to
do with negotiations with the Alexander
um and at that time we did close down
the the vehicular access um up to
brighten uh you can see that the the
ride out lane was added back into that
and that was all part of these traffic
um traffic adjustments or modifications
at that time um
one other thing to point out here is
that at at that point um when we went to
the the work session we did add parallel
parking on the Bexley Square parking lot
and that was something that was being
vetted at the
time with the
cic um parallel parking where So
currently there's a oneway motion North
with angle parking along the Creed
median uhuh um the idea right now is
that we could keep the oneway moot North
and actually put parallel on both sides
of that and create more of a streetcape
out of that up along the front fronts of
the stores um where would handicap be
where would handicap be it doesn't it
doesn't show up in this one but we did
we added handicap or Ada parking spaces
on the parallel parking along the front
of the stores so you so they're gonna
exit into the traffic lane you're gonna
get out of the car into the where the
traffic's driving in you're gonna
probably more useful if you showed the
actual plan on the other on
and we can get into that on a an
enlargement um so at this point this is
where the variances as we talked about
came into play next slide
please um so this is this is the current
plan and this was based I think we had
two other submittals in there and then
um you know we had we had a two special
meetings with the ARB and the tree and
public gardens commission um so this
would be the current plan the plan
before this was very similar a few
things that we did is we we reduced the
spacing of the trees along the west we
added trees um we did add some pavers
down here at the restaurant's entrance
on that southwest
corner
um I think Karen or Jason one of the two
were mentioning that the two notches in
the the Northeast and Northwest Corners
they came into play um at that point the
vehicular connection across the parking
lots was
eliminated and which that moved the
entrance to that upper level the the
upper level of the garage from the
Bexley Square parking lot um and then we
we added a couple of dumpsters for the
Bexley Square actually we they're using
dumpsters off the site onto the Trinity
site right now so we relocated those to
the their site um a few other changes
were uh we had a lawn area in here in
the tree and public gardens commission
asked us to remove the lawn pull the
trees the smaller or ornamental trees
pull them out um towards the parking lot
and get more canopy which we did that um
and then the other the big change at
this point after the um architectural
work session ARB work session is we we
embellished that pocket park on that
Southeast Corner which I guess it to go
through some of the parking changes on
that previous iteration when we changed
the parallel I think it lost around 10
parking
spaces um when this came into play and
grew a little in that Bexley Square
parking lot I think there's another 10
spaces so um if you look through the the
series of slides the unit count and the
parking count we would have been at 320
originally we're at like 298 right now
300 and Ryan did you we picked up extra
on Street spices when you lost the other
one is that
right when you lost the ones for the C
yeah didn't you pick some up in front of
the the the plaza space technically not
in front of your your no when you go
down there yeah right there where the
curb cut was I we're showing up to 12
parking spaces out along the street
state so there still the same number you
just don't get credit for them because
they're not on your spot correct
got 10 I think let me ask you is so
let's say I'm exiting the west side of
the building toward Main Street that's a
two-way right yes okay so is the
landscaping that's shown in the front of
the building on Main Street affect the
view of traffic as you're exiting that
that
exit you see what I'm saying right there
if you if you're leaving there and you
want to turn let's say right or left on
the Main
Street can you it's a right out only the
it's right out only okay that's fine you
still have to make sure you're not right
outing into another car be looking for
cars yeah so what kind of of plantings
are there and are you considering the
fact that you don't want to disturb the
line of sight currently this this is a
London Plane Tree in a tree well similar
to what's in front of the Rusty Bucket
or in front ofin Eagle so you will have
a trunk of the tree that's vertical but
everything else is loaded the ground and
really shouldn't affect your sight lines
so you've considered that is issue I
mean I'm going to let you choose what
kind of tree you know I don't know
enough but I'm I'm interested to know
that you're worried about sight lines
for traffic yes we are okay thank
you um next slide please
so this is the current plan without uh
all the red marks on it and I'll just
walk through starting at that southwest
corner the right and right out that we
were just talking about
um
currently the restaurant piece is in
this lower level um of the frontage
along East Main Street right behind the
restaurant or the retail portions
there's an a ramp section that runs
between the upper level of the parking
garage and the lower level of the
parking garage where someone would have
to exit the garage and ENT reenter to
get into that basement level or come off
of this access
Drive um once once you're beyond this we
have 49 parking spaces to the north uh
and very
limited traffic that would need to use
this piece of the the um Drive um
however it is here for fire access to
that West portion of the building and
right now the the fire lane to service
the building is likely going to happen
in this parking lot on the north end of
the building so um part of this
connection is going to have to be for
backing of the firet TRU if they need to
get out of here we have designed this to
where they can roll across or um get out
and remove the ballards and cut across
this corner of this pedestrian
Plaza
um
let me ask you the another question on
the West
Side the the
objectives of somebody that's in your
business of choosing
plants appropriate plants are a little
different it seems to me behind the
Bexley
Gateway than they are behind the
Alexander in other words nobody lives in
the Bexley Gateway that I'm aware of at
least and so so the next question is
then some Brownstones the but the next
well I understand there's Brownstones
but they're not up against the West exit
but the Alexander is almost up against
the West exit what kind of plantings are
behind the Alexander versus what's
behind the gateway are they all the same
up and down that entire Street it is a
consistent landscape treatment along
that entire property line um we have
zova trees that are 30 feet on Center
um if you wanted to look and see what
those trees look like you can go to cins
Street just south of the Huntington
ballark and they're basically 30 feet on
Center they're close I don't know ien
measured them you know R is we're not
Tree Experts up here but what I'm
interested in knowing is you are
considering the
different
requirements or maybe requirements is
not the right word to use the different
aspects of the trees that you're
selecting based upon the differing needs
of the people that live along that
Corridor now I'm I'm talking about this
I realize we narrow the building one of
the issues here is can we narrow the
building or Not that we're deciding
tonight by narrowing the building it
gave you different set of facts to deal
with on what plants go to the West and
East of the building building
right am I right about that yes okay so
my question for you is how much
consideration have you given to the type
of planting that goes on that western
border now that you have a little
different scenario and now that we're
being asked to allow you to to narrow
the
building we haven't narrowed the
building um substantially to be able to
allow for any kind of a different
treatment on our landscape plans right
um currently we have upright trees that
are up against the building building to
soften the view of the building but I
really think that the the buffering and
protection for the residents to the west
and frankly for our residents um is
going to come out of this Western
property line where we have 10 feet of
green area plus there's a little bit of
root Zone towards the parking lot uh
down to the Rusty Bucket
so we did use a consistent landscape
treatment down through here and it has a
hedge it has lower plantings down along
the curb um and it has a canopy I mean
we're we're trying to provide a nice
buffer between the two properties I
understand that yeah but but my question
is are you going and looking and saying
this balcony on the Alexander is here
this balcony is here this balcony is
here what does this person see from this
balcony this balcony this balcony and
I'm sorry folks I didn't I got away from
my microphone I'm I'm Italian you know
it's bad um the the uh the the issue is
I'm interested in knowing whether you
who's in charge of this and in doing the
planning who knows about trees unlike us
are you thinking about those issues and
to what extent have you thought about it
and what is the result of that thinking
that's what I'm interested in knowing
right when you say you've got the same
tree going all the way up and down
you're making me question whether you're
thinking about the differing needs along
that roadway that's all other than you
know I think we we chose that tree for
this condition right here and then we
just kept a consistent treatment down
through the entire streetcape if you
will okay that's property I mean
understand um there are balconies on
either side of this projection on the
Alexander building right that uh we have
placed a
tree in front of those two balconies
trying to provide some buffer between
the two uses so there's not a direct
line of sight from our building into
theirs yeah okay trying to give them
privacy and I drove back there to look
specifically to see what is exactly the
issue back here and that's the reason
I'm interested in
this okay thank you sure go on go go
ahead I didn't mean to interrupt you
that
much sorry about that um so The
Pedestrian connection from Brighton uh
we do have a a this turned into a small
pedestrian Plaza if you will the corner
where the fire lane or emergency only
access would happen across to the curb
cut um there are some 18t cabinets here
for fiber optic that we cannot move or
adjust at this point
um and then so that path would actually
come across jog down and then further
connection down to the the pocket park
that's been
contemplated um with that we we did add
a small Landing area here for an
intermediate Lobby if you will for the
the residents uh it's an elevator Lobby
um I think I mentioned earlier that
there was the trash collection that
happens on both sides um that has been
designed into this to roll out when we
talk about the trash these are
small relatively small a maintenance man
can pull the trash carts out to the
aisle to have the truck pick them up
it's not a giant dumpster that most of
us would think of they're internal
compactors uh located in the three
locate the three spots um so they they
do come into smaller containers I think
there's three in each um trash
room
um further to the South uh this is that
upper end of the the ramp into the
parking garage and
then I think next slide please and we
can look at the streetcape real
quick so some of the Ada questions that
we were just talking about out
um there are univers Universal parking
spaces that you can design um to where
the the car can actually pull all the
way over to the curb and let the the Ada
person out of the driver's site if
that's necessary um it's parallel
parking and Ada parking are not very
common I can tell you that much but we
were doing what we could to try to get
that um the Ada spaces over along the
retail Frontage instead of crossing the
drive aisle
um
yeah yeah so you don't see an issue
though with with access for the driver
into the drive
aisle I mean my my mom's 85 and she
parks in adaa and so she's going to
drive her car and park there she's gonna
have to step out into traffic to walk
around to get into the building is that
right no that's not true I mean it
depends on how we stripe this and how
it's marked um well if the car is facing
north which is the One Direction they
can be travel the car could pull all the
way over to the curb if it's the driver
that's getting up that's impaired okay
that leaves that five foot aisle for for
their
maneuverability of course if they have
an ADA tag a lot of times it is the
driver that's getting out of the car
right now the driver always gets out of
the car
[Laughter]
eventually you know and you can see the
the existing curb right here that's the
red dash line that is the amount of um I
guess increased sidewalk you might see
yeah what is the width of a Ada spot
compared to a standard
spot uh per National code it's an 8 foot
parking space with a five foot access
aisle on either side or on one side a
van accessible would be eight for an
access aisle eight and then a 5 foot
aisle thank you I mean another
question is the width of the
building which is allowing you to do
some things Greenery wise that you
couldn't do
before is it what what if residents have
a dog they want to go out at night for a
few minutes they don't want to walk
eight blocks around the block they just
want to take them out let them do their
thing and go back in is there some
accommodation for
that the the only space that we have
have for a dog relief area would be in
that Northern Northeastern corner of the
site okay by the
plaza when when he said when you say nor
small it's not a dog park I'm not gonna
no no but are you talking about the
within the building confines or you
talking about in the green area it's up
where the um can you move this down can
you go to the previous slide there you
go right it would be up in this area
okay and is that grass there is okay
grass up there just it is the only area
I mean
okay all right so
um you have any other back to the next
slide and
then see I'm just I just need to have
time we have an 11: curfew here for some
reason that I'm not allowed to go past
even though my mom's no longer with me I
think I still have to be home by 11 so
uh I want to try to move this along and
I know some folks want to make comments
too so if you could accelerate this a
little bit I'd appreciate it
so yeah the only the only other thing is
um the pocket park is still to be
determined I think it's working through
that design with cic ARB I'm sure the
tree and public garden we'll all have
input on that sure um another thing that
mod was modified is when the when this
Central Plaza was introduced to the
design it did allow us to take the what
we were calling the private patio space
off of the streetscape move that into
this internal Courtyard um which I think
is going to make a better public realm
there for the um the public streetcape
okay um with that I mean we have other
images we have the architect we have the
Traffic Engineers who Frank who do you
want to go
next
you got to come up to the microphone
though
Frank thank you yeah real quick if you
look at this drawing you see the homes
on uh short brighten as we call it yes
and look where we've moved the building
now on on our
site um that's probably 150 to 200 feet
from those homes yeah pretty good
distance it is in between that um I just
wanted to point that out on that yeah
that's a change
yeah thank you who who goes next we have
a our traffic engineer here that can
speak to the traffic counts and okay
thank you traffic
patterns than
all right mayam if I could have your
name
please I'm Gina Balo traffic engineer
with Carpenter Marty
Transportation okay tell us about the
aspects of traffic that we need to
consider on these variances that we have
today yeah so a traffic impact study is
a really prescribed process um there's
data that you collect and you follow OD
do standards you follow standard
industry practices um so it's very
prescribed um there's not a lot of
leeway in it so we collected turning
movement counts we got growth rates from
the Metropolitan planning organization
morsy uh we did trip generation po per
industry standards um just based on what
the site says it's going to generate um
based on study in the
industry and then we do analysis with
those traffic volumes that we generate
okay um so overall the analysis showed
us that there's no improvements that are
needed from a traffic aspect um for the
public roadways or for the site access
points or any of the Cross access that
it
impacts um so overall pretty simple
process there um simple results uh the
existing site does have access to Park
View um the brighten access like they
said uh they're getting rid of that and
turning that into the pet and bike um
but with the ride in ride out on Main
Street and the access to Bexley Square
that's really going to be the prominent
places where we're going to see um
traffic flowing in and out of the site
um because overall Park View like if you
go back behind the Alexander there are
um speed bumps back there so really that
traffic calming that's pushing people
away from using that um as a a cut
through or you know whatever you may
assume um that's that's what those speed
bumps are there for and that's what it's
going to be achieving there um and we
did receive comments what Jason talked
through and you know he said they're
pretty minor um I would agree with that
as well like not going to change any of
the results recommendations conclusions
um nothing like that from the study is
changing much because of those comments
um so I read the traffic study just to
make sure I was boned up a little bit on
things I'm a
little
incredulous for want of a better word
that that the number of units currently
61 versus and I know they're bigger and
their family units but changing to
232 doesn't have a significant impact on
cars going in and
out just a just a gut reaction of mine
all right I'm no traffic engineer but
I'd like for you to comment on my my
feeling that I get when I look at that
yeah so I mean your feeling is valid
absolutely um but I would say that the
reason why the analysis and the traffic
impact study shows that there's no
improvements needed is because of a few
reasons I would say um first of all the
existing infrastructure on the surface
roads can handle that additional traffic
volume okay um also the traffic volume
is being spread out throughout different
access points whereas right now it's um
you know just to the north and to the
West um there's no cross access to
Beckley square right now right um
there's no you know straight access on
to Main Street right now so all of that
being said the traffic traff is being
dispersed more and I would say in a
direction that we want it to go okay and
are your
statistics such
that you can analyze the amount of
traffic that is generated by so many
units in other words if it's a 100 units
if it's a 200 unit if it's a 300 unit
and and and because your studies what
what do people do I mean tell what
people do in your industry did they sit
there and actually count cars some days
and and see what happens yes yeah so we
did Count cars at the intersections um
the site access points the traffic
signals um next to the site uh we did
physically count them so we had the
vehicles coming in and out of those um
intersections and access points um and
then as far as the trip generation so
like the the new trips that are coming
because of the site yes um that is all
generated based on industry practices so
basically um The Institute of
Transportation Engineers or it um they
do all these studies Nationwide uh and
that gets down to um the specifics of
okay you have this many apartment units
or this many square feet of retail or
yeah um all those different land uses
and sizes of land uses are taken into
consideration so then we get into that
program and we say okay we have an
apartment that is 200 some units we have
uh retail that is so many square feet
and then it pops out the number of trips
that you're going to generate with that
development okay that's my question
thank you Gina if I may ask one question
of you
um I've read that car ownership in the
country especially amongst younger
Generations is going down how has that
changed your
modeling with the cision of ride shares
and yeah it the trip generation that I
went over they update that regularly um
and I would say that especially with a
mixed use development like this where
you can see a lot of people like since
you have all of these different
amenities in one confined area you'll
see a lot of people living there will
probably just walk right downstairs and
go to the nice restaurant that he talked
about um you know so they can afford it
you know they can afford
itely yeah um so so yeah I would say
that is all taken into consideration
with our analysis in the trip generation
so to be clear is are you assuming that
there is more traffic density nowadays
or less traffic
density regardless of where they live I
mean I haven't I haven't looked at like
how the trip generation changes
specifically year by year by year but we
use the most up-to-date information
that's available thank you yeah and has
your
experience been that the it information
is valid and actually works absolutely
yes and it is used Nationwide every city
you uses it um city Columbus does the
same exact thing same exact process um
yeah and how long have you been doing
this I have been a traffic engineer for
12 years now all right congratulations
and thank you for your information
tonight do you have any other
information you'd like to give
us all right I've got a couple question
thank you Sean just got a coule
questions so when you're looking at the
numbers leaving this access point
outside right here did you take does
that take into account the people
departing Giant Eagle people departing
this shopping center the people
departing City Hall all of that's in all
you counted all that square footage and
all of that as well as the square
footage of what the new development is
so those existing uses are actually
represented in the count data that we
collected at that intersection okay um
so yeah we have what we do is we use myo
Vision cameras which is basically a
camera that we set up at the
intersection um You probably all just
drove right past and didn't see it
because it's very um conspicuous but
it's it is basically a traffic camera
that looks down at the intersection and
then counts the number of cars going
through there so Giant Eagle would be
included in that because they were there
when we collected the traffic counts um
it's not changing Giant Eagle is not
changing so those trips are not going to
change so those are all included okay
and then when you're looking at time of
day was there any consideration and I'm
gonna probably contradict Frank and I
believe I'm I believe this is what I'm
saying but I don't think the school
district can limit the number of kids in
the building because I believe F family
status is a protected class when it
comes to housing so the school district
District can't limit as to how many kids
are there so is there any chance that
you took into account that in Bexley
because we don't have buses pretty much
daily there's going to be however
however many kids there's going to
probably be 15 20 25 additional cars
leaving in the morning to take their
kids to school because if your kids in
grade school most people that live west
of Drexel their kids are driven to
school I mean a very few of them walk so
I mean these kids are there's an
additional time of day where there's
going to be probably 15 to 20 cars going
in and out of there
yeah so I would say the existing student
generated traffic was included in the
analysis just because that's already
trips that are there um and then as far
as new trips like students that are
living in the apartment I said they they
said there could only be 15 well that's
what I'm saying that number you can't
count that so it's I I would say it's
it's uh not that many in the grand
scheme of the the traffic analysis and
they would happen
during like a less off peak time like if
the biggest Peak is you know the PM Peak
which is generally like 4:30 to 5:30 is
the biggest Peak um especially in this
specific area I would say um so that
would be outside of that Peak okay so
and then in your conclusion you
basically were stating
that there's no need for alterations at
the access points correct but that but
so what you're so what you're saying is
they don't need to be changed but that
doesn't necessarily mean that there's
not going to be 15 20 cars stacked up in
the parking lot or something like that I
mean all you're saying is we don't need
to add a turn lane but you're not saying
that it's going to prevent large backups
in the parking lots at certain times a
day so what I'm saying is that it meets
level of service requirements that are
generally acceptable in Ohio and um
cities in the area so you know what is
considered acceptable is going to be met
do you know what acceptable is yes I do
um so yeah so that's an easy one I
guess yeah yeah so um not getting too
technical about it but we have levels of
service that range from a to F and you
know you might think of it like going to
school a is good f is bad um but the
variance in between is a little bit
different than how you would think of it
as a school grade um so basically
anything up to an F is considered okay
so if you have a d that is still okay
because of the fact that Vehicles can
still get in and out um it's not failing
anything F or worse is failing and if I
could add from the planning side that
taught this for over a decade at Ohio
State in The Graduate School program I
consider as a planner an a in a
neighborhood like this to be a failure
because that means you basically have no
weight and your cars can move unimpeded
at a high rate of speed so from a
planning perspective on a dense Urban
mix juuse Corridor we would not advocate
for an a we we we think that now the
Traffic Engineers have a different
opinion their job is to move cars so for
our in our perspective at Peak periods
to have level of service that is or D is
actually preferable because that means
the cars are going slower and then that
encourages people to make different
choices with their vehicles in order to
create a more safe pedestrian and mixed
use environment so what's that going to
be what is this right here right now
it's a d it will continue to be a d okay
because you're gonna learn when you
leave tonight if you parked back here
that it's gonna take you a little while
to get out so yeah and you know like
exactly like Jason was saying I agree
with everything that he said and you
know a little bit of congestion is is
actually a good thing from a a d a dense
Urban environment like this that's
that's what you want that's what you
expect because otherwise you would have
a freeway on Main Street and that's not
what anybody wants here either right
okay all right thank you any further
questions from members of the board for
Gina Gina thank you very much I'd say
your last name but it's long and I have
a rough time with it you know also
Italian yeah also Italian yeah I got I
got that much out of it yeah well very
good thank you very much Mr
Cass just to mention because I think
maybe it's not shown when you look at
the building particularly in light of
what you were just asking um there's a
drive VI between the commercial space
and the
garage so that dve VI maybe Karen can
you pop it back up there you can wake up
I don't know that we ever explained that
it like you said if if today you're
getting out of here tonight you know
that's how you go well this way you'll
be able to go in
between the building
so yeah yeah I saw that but but if
you're I live that way so I'm gonna be
turning left so I have to go to the
light right even even if I was in your
facility have to go you go around the
block and the other way yeah the other
thing is
just stop stop please please please
please stop stop stop stop please I
don't know I don't know but we we was it
what you said I don't know the other
thing is the apartments um 148 of them
are one-bedroom apartments okay so um
this kind of project historically we've
built 10,000 Apartments we'll likely
never have 10 schoolage kids in these
apartments and and you can look at that
any place in the country today in these
kind of uh Apartments particularly in
urban areas like like this and you and
and as Jason said you have to consider
not just Bexley you have to consider
this Main Street Corridor as your Urban
part of of your city right okay anyhow
okay thank you all right any other
presentation because I'd like to uh
let's I I imagine there's a couple
people that want to make comments as
well okay with the board
to move on all right now here's a couple
rules I told you about the 11:00 curfew
already there's also a three minute rule
for people that are not the presenters
presenters obviously we can't keep them
three minutes because we need to learn
about what they're doing but on the
commentary side from the audience you
you have to have standing a which means
that you can't live in busiris and come
here and talk about this and B uh you're
have three minutes and I have this
lovely iPhone that has a stopwatch on it
and I will give you a signal which is
this to say you've got 30 seconds left
if you happen to go past two and a half
minutes which I hope you don't have to
but if you do I'll let you know when you
get to three minutes yes my able
assistant here Karen will also help
watch the time and we'll try to keep
this going because we want to hear
everybody that wants to make a comment
and we want you to uh try to you know
avoid repetitious comments I mean I was
on the Columbus Board of zoning uh
appeals for many years and we would have
many many sessions of this nature and
people would tend to repeat if you say
if you want to agree with something
that's already been said you can say
that in about four words I agree with
that comment or that concept and then
move on to new issues or new ideas
because we want to learn from you what
you feel about this project and about
these variances that we are being asked
to vote on tonight so it I think that is
there one lawyer here or
sir and how many people do you represent
or what who do you
represent okay now if you're going to
speak on their behalf are they also
going to
speak okay then why don't we have you
come first if you if you don't
mind and enter your appearance as they
say in the legal
business great thank thank you
appreciate your time this evening um can
you hear me now yeah you're tall man
you're taller than the average bear
there so but that's sometimes that help
or you just prop it up there maybe might
need a little longer than three minutes
with what's happening this evening so i'
would appreciate all right well since
you're an attorney we'll cut you some
slack how's that um I did have comments
prepared but uh given what I've heard
from staff um I a lot of them just are
no longer applicable uh never in my
experience have I shown up for an
application and heard that that um the
variances that are being sought are no
longer needed and there's new variances
that were imposing so much of the issues
that I've uh planned for this evening
and maybe what other people have planned
for as well are no longer pertinent so
okay um the issue is you know due
process we need to have notice we need
to have an opportunity to be heard and
to hear for the first time this evening
that there are two additional variances
that there's no longer a par parking
variance required uh which I don't
necessarily agree with is um um you know
I feel blindsided to say the and I don't
think to us on this side of the room um
that said I guess as it relates to the
variances the um the staff and legal
council has gone over the factors that
Bap is supposed to look at what I want
to point out is that those factors are
derived from a Supreme Court case it's
the Duncan be uh uh Village of
Middlefield case there are seven factors
those factors are supposed to assist
this board to determine whether or not
the applicant has shown practical
difficulties the Practical difficulty
standard is what needs to be shown in
order for a variance to be granted it's
not necessarily that these seven factors
are granted what Duncan States is that
under Ohio law property owners must show
practical difficulties and that a zoning
requirement is inequitable and
unreasonably deprives them of a
permitted use to be entitled to a
variance administrative boards must also
weigh the competing interest of property
owners with those of the community when
reviewing a variance so it's not just
these seven factors that you're looking
at out of your code there needs to be a
showing that the zoning requirement is
Equitable and it unreasonably deprives
the property owner of a permitted use
what I've heard at least in regards to
the height variance doesn't reflect that
at all the height variance is a product
of negotiating with the ARB negotiating
with the ARB is Not Practical
difficulties so there has been no
showing at all that would warrant
granting a variance in that case as a
relates to the parking um like I said I
don't know that I agree we my number was
close I had 414 you had 418 so we're in
the same park but that's still 25% less
at least I believe that site plan shows
plus or minus 300 spaces so I understand
that they're coming up with this math
but what's not take being taken into
account is the tax increment financing
which is design designating this parking
garage as a public structure meaning
that anybody from the public can come
Park these these garage um spaces I
believe anywhere on the lot so you'll
have a situation where people are coming
and whether it's Fourth of July
Halloween or any day of the week people
want to come to the restaurant anybody's
going to be able to park at this this
restaurant I haven't heard that being
taken into account so I don't think that
there's any reason for either of these
variances to be granted and we haven't
even looked at these other two that were
just raised about an hour ago um the
other pertinent thing that's relevant to
this analysis is that um the Alexander
easement which is on the west side of
the property and Ohio court has stated
that the law in this state is perfectly
settled if one person has a RightWay
over land of another to go to a
particular place they cannot use it for
the purpose of going to a place beyond
it because the servient tenant is only
subject to a certain inconvenience and
what that means is that the Alexander
property which is the servient property
and The Trinity property is dominant
property there is only a legal right to
cross the Alexander property to go to
the Trinity property when people start
to use the Alexander easan to park at
the Trinity property and then go to
other places which they're going to be
permitted to do which they will do and
which will likely also happen through
passing through that garage there's
going to be a right for the Alexander to
terminate that easement and I think this
Board needs to take that into
consideration and realize that they may
be approving a plan here that after it's
reviewed by a court could just have two
ingresses and egresses on the Main
Street the other issue that's related to
that is that the variances do require
this board to take into account how this
project will affect neighboring
properties there's going to be a large
increase in the use of that easement and
the sure it's the um I don't have a
pointer here we'll show
you yeah it's that it's off of Park View
and it's to the north of the Alexander
and it's a little wider than the average
it's a lot wider than the other entry
point that's south of the Alexander And
there are garages to the north of it
that house uh cars of residents of the
Alexander that's correct right there
that entire property is condominium
property it's a common element and what
that means is that everybody that owns a
unit in that condominium has an
undivided interest in that property and
when this development goes in there will
be an increase in use of that easement
and the Alexander which is responsible
for maintaining that area is going to
see an increase in their cost which
means that the unit owners of the
Alexander are going to have to pay money
through great assessments to maintain
that easement area for this project
which they do not support they do not
want that is not inequitable and that is
an unjust result so let me ask you
this when the Trinity Apartments were
there which they were when people moved
into the Alexander right yes I mean
people used it to get to that back
parking lot did they not they did and I
believe the Trinity Apartments um is it
60 units 61 61 UNS and roughly 90
bedrooms we're talking about uh increase
of almost four times in the number of
units plus a um office space plus retail
Plus Restaurant not to mention that this
is going to be a public parking garage
the increase in the burden on that that
easement is going to be great and
there's case law on that as
well no yeah you're you're not talking
into the microphone sorry the EAS no
you're still not
with the construction of the Trinity
Apartments the ement was granted back in
2004 back when Gateway was being
developed to the Trinity Apartments it
only runs to the three Parcels which
make up the uh Trinity Apartments but
that parking lot was also marked as
parking for Capal University that any of
the students could use as well correct I
believe so yes okay thank you yeah and
and so you could go but the easan itself
says that it's a private Drive purpose
to and from that Trinity apartment um
but that his point is the entire Capitol
University student body could go up
there to get to that back parking lot as
well as people who lived in hold on
folks folks we can't have comments from
anybody other than who's at the
microphone let me tell you why this is a
quazi Judicial event and everything is
on a record and when you say things it's
not on the record and we can't consider
them so there's no point in yelling out
or clapping or laughing or any of that
stuff so everything goes through me
through the chair nobody talks unless I
give them authority to talk that's how
it has to go all right so now well then
let me take that back I'll defer that to
somebody else that may have better
familiarity with the history of that
okay but I do say that I'm just saying
is capital has signs posted all over
there because I used to park in that
parking lot all the time sure there are
not 300 spots on that line right now
they're not what 300 spots on that
parking well parking lot but yeah we
don't know how many there are either but
nonetheless just I'm just you're making
a point and I'm just pointing things out
to you that we need to consider sure
that in my opinion are pertinent to the
points you're making that's all
appreciate that yeah so um and the other
law too that I just wanted to point out
is that the increase of the use it's got
to be you know courts have said that an
easement can be changed the use of in
easement but it's got to be normal
growth and uh this development I I you
know I think that's certainly debatable
I think there are a lot of people behind
me that would say this is not a normal
growth of this part of the area so
um those are basically the points that I
wanted to cover I don't think the
criteria has been met for the easement
again you're not just looking at these
seven factors you have to look at
whether practical difficulties have been
shown sure is there any restriction on
this property that's prohibiting the
unit owner excuse me the property owner
from being able to develop it that's not
the case these easements at least the
one that's related to the height of the
building is completely related to trying
to negotiate with the ARB to get their
approval and that's not the legal
standard um and again I think this
easement that crosses the Alexander
property is a big issue one that's not
going to go away um let me address first
thing you brought up and ask U Miss
Cunningham for an opinion
here the question is this is a due
process
issue is is there been adequate notice
of exactly what we were what we are
going to vote on tonight given
inadequate time frames to allow for this
gentleman and his clients and the other
people who are not represented by
lawyers here tonight to uh effectively
uh argue or or
discuss I don't know I'd have to see the
notice I I don't know the answer to that
without looking at the notice the the
certainly the meeting was noticed sure
it was noticed um that of the ARB
meeting yesterday
and the C it was discussed yesterday and
in the coming forward um about those
additional variances in terms of
adequate notice and what was noticed it
was not microphone sorry um in terms of
what the applicant originally applied
for um that Miss Rose can address that
the it is certainly true that the um the
the some of the variances as Jason
mentioned were
created as a result of recommendations
of ARB I would disagree though with Mr
Hunt's representation that that was just
all about architecture many many of what
the things that the ARB was doing was to
accommodate neighborhood compatibility
and buffering and there's a lot of
discussion about that at ARB and coming
forward in their recommendation so it is
true um that that the story did go up
but it was also true and I think um
Karen mentioned it in her presentation
that a lot of that was in mitigation to
concerns that were directly raised by
neighbors that really were about factors
um about neighborhood compatibility now
you can disagree whether it met or not
that's as as Mr sui so apply always says
that is for you to determine whether
that was appropriate or not but that is
why a lot of that happened in terms of
the notice of the exact variances that
were coming forward I think that some of
those variances the height experience uh
was certainly advertised in advance I
think and it was the part yes okay one
person talk at a time here so yeah so
Karen well I I looked to Karen because
she and and Kathy noticed it and they
did notice the height variance the other
two two variances in terms of the
narrowing of the building um for the
frontage and the cutout um on that I
don't I don't know about the notices on
that result yesterday were the final
determination okay so so according to Mr
sui those were not um noticed for today
they were added and the applicant did
specifically request at the ARB hearing
um in terms of the conditions that that
the conditions be made and move forward
to this board so um appro a approach
their application in that way but those
were certainly discussed at ARB were
they specifically noticed pulling out
the code sections um Karen and Jason
told me they were not
okay so
um what
we
might consider here is that there
certainly was one of the variances that
was noticed the
height and that's an issue to which Mr
Hunt was directing quite a few of his
comments I think or certainly
substantial number of his comments the
other if the other two were not then
perhaps uh we need to have a another
session on those two possibly now you
know here's what what as an attorney
I'm trying to to do what all trial
courts do and that is they try to avoid
appell issues because appell issues take
nine months 12 months more and we go
there and we come back so if we we want
to make sure that what we're
doing uh comports with the law and the
requirements that are being raised here
maybe we should consider that
possibility that's up to the applicant
the applicant can decide no I want to
move forward or no I I want you to go
ahead and vote on the one that was
noticed and we'll set the other one for
the next meeting which is in January I
think is it not yes okay so that's how
much time because there's no December
meeting as I recall that's correct
correct okay so just a thought for the
applicant to to conjure here a little
bit while we're doing this
um does anybody have any I have couple
more please yes um so yesterday I
submitted a memorandum I want to make
sure that that's been included in the
record and I'm curious whether sorry
thank you uh yesterday I submitted a
memorandum I want to make sure that
that's been included in the record and
I'd like to know whether or not the Bap
members have had an opportunity to
review that or not we haven't but how
did you submit it by what method through
email to Miss Rose and Miss Cunningham
yesterday afternoon Kathy did you have
do you have that email I do have that
email okay can you submit that brief to
all the members of the board and will'll
uh put it into the record please it
should be posted to the website too and
I appreciate that Mr Hunt got it to us
yesterday but it was at after 5 o'clock
and we were at an ARB meeting till after
10 oh I understand I mean I know there's
a reason for it by the way I was at the
airb meeting too you were too huh you
don't have anything else to do at night
no just it's exciting so um the last
thing that I just like to mention is is
I'm the individual I subpoenaed uh
Carpenter Marty the transportation um
company there are a few questions that
I'd like to ask them I think with this
being quasi judicial hearing I should be
afforded that right I think so too you
can we bring uh Gina up here Mr can I
ask you sorry just unrelated to that
does does your client is the association
that's correct okay and does the
association own any real property no not
that I'm aware of but I'll let I'll let
the association it's the collective of
the members the association is uh
function of 5311 whenever you have a
condominium a um a governing body is
formed well that's the board of
directors but they they uh are the ones
that the association acts through so uh
when you have a planned Community or
subdivision or condominium the
association acts on behalf and
represents the and sometimes and often
owns some of the property it can happen
yes but in this case they don't own any
of the property they're acting as a
conduit I can't say that definitively so
I'm not going to answer that okay I'll
let somebody answer you don't know fair
enough y than
thanks it depends all right so I need a
microphone for Gina please
somewhere
yeah this this good it's good folks are
you okay back there behind her is that
okay okay because you can step around to
this side too
yeah I just have a seat there you go
perfect a bigger Podium could you pull
up the uh traffic study for me
please and do you have a copy as well
that you can I sure do okay great so um
could you identify yourself for the
record for me please uh Gina Balo
traffic engineer at Carpenter Marty
Transportation
okay and I know you talked about this a
little bit earlier how long have you
been a traffic engineer about 12 years
sorry I just want to interrupt were you
sworn when sworn when you came yes I did
raise my hand yes sorry go ahead thank
you have you been at Carpenter Marty
that entire time no where else have you
been employed uh ljb and Dayton Ohio is
that a traffic also yeah same consulting
firm yeah all right and I'm assuming you
have some sort of degree in traffic
engineering yes I have a BS in civil
engineering from the University of
Dayton I'm a registered professional
engineer in the state of Ohio I have
passed the ptoe as well great okay uh if
you could go to page three for me
please is that your seal and signat
yes okay thank
you so I'd like to ask you just a few
basic questions about the traffic study
and frankly I just got this on Monday so
this will be relatively painless um if
we could go to the next
page so purpose in report and study
objectives the uh first sentence states
the purpose of this traffic analysis and
report is to document the potential
traffic impacts of a mixed use
development located in Bexley Ohio I
guess I guess the first thing that I
want to do is just make sure that this
report only deals with traffic correct
not parking or any other issue related
to the property correct we did not
include parking in this study would
parking be a different study yes okay do
you know whether a parking study has
been done for this property uh I believe
Jason walked through
that we evaluated it per our
code has a has a parking study been
completed that that is not required
under now
basically no okay yeah so no parking
okay all right um we can go to the next
page
please under the land use and intensity
paragraph where it talks about uh
basically describes the development says
the development is proposed to have one
full access point on South Parkview
Avenue via cross access to the Alexander
development a right in right out across
East Main Street and crossed access to
ba Bexley Square
correct yes so this study takes into
consideration that there would be three
access
points if one of those were to be closed
would that detrimentally affect this
study we would update the study
accordingly with the to what extent
would the study have any value if for
instance the cross access easement were
shut off um basically what would happen
is you would have to we assign trips out
of the development based on what access
points are provided so we would have to
readjust the distribution of those trips
um and update the analysis in general I
would assume that it wouldn't have large
impacts but you'd have to go through the
analysis to determine that so a whole
another analysis would need to be
completed to see what the effects would
for sure all
right
we can go to the next page
please
so under section c it says traffic
volumes and conditions and it talks
about count data and the study being
done on May 25th 2023
correct correct so the count data and I
believe you talked about this earlier is
that youve or your company pH Bally
measured the amount of vehicles that
were traveling down these roads yeah
with a traffic camera okay uh May 25th
2023 was a
Thursday it was also at a period of time
when Capitol University was not in
session or at least their spring
semester had ended they may may have
been a summer semester does your study
account for the fact that Capitol
University was not in full session at
that time no okay would would that make
a
difference it could I would say the the
driving factor is really the traffic
volume on Main Street and the traffic
volumes in and out of the site which are
not as impacted by that but it does have
an impact yes so I believe Capital
University is off Main Street correct
yes and Main Street's one of the main
arteries that people use to get to
Capital University yes so if Capital
University were in full force like this
time of year the traffic study would be
different correct yes
okay but we don't know what that
difference would be we do not know what
that difference would be it it could
result in the same recommendations and
conclusions as what we found right now
but we we're speculating on that point
speculation okay uh if we could go to
the next page
please so with this section um section
four projected traffic we have section A
which talks about background traffic
okay do you recall completing any other
traffic studies related to this
development um so we had a couple
iterations of this study just because of
changes to the site and the trip
Generation Um but as far as the
background traffic
no I'm sorry I only brought one copy um
so I'm going to bring you the traffic
impact study that's dated August 24th
2023 correct yes and turning to page
three that's your stamp and signature
again yeah okay so you put this together
yes okay yeah this is the previous
iterations that I had mentioned right
and I don't know if if staff wants to
bring this up so that we could see it's
the August
24th study I I don't have that right
here okay gonna take that's all right I
can just pass it around so in this
version of the
study under projected traffic there's a
table it's table one that says existing
site trip generation summary and the
land use is identified as 225 off-campus
student apartment Jason housing it says
94 bedrooms correct that's not found in
this version of the study though correct
the latest version correct I have it up
if you want to tell me what page uh it's
page four of the
study thank you thank you as hard as I
thought it probably be a different page
of the PDF it's actually page four of
the study you you're just gonna have to
stop me when because I
don't there's the uh table table one
that I was referring to I'm just curious
why why you chose to Omit that table in
the study that was filed last week yeah
so basically what that did is it
generated trips for the existing Housing
Development that's there right now um
and the idea generally what you do in a
traffic impact study is if there's a
site that's there currently that's going
to be demolished and replaced by a
different site you would remove the
trips from that existing site and then
put trips on from the proposed site so
the original study um had that idea in
place where we would remove trips from
the existing
site from the count data we took that
out because the fact that there's not
people living there now to my knowledge
um and also the fact that if you don't
take those trips out the results are
actually
conservative um so we kept those trips
in
coming to and from that site you know
whoever it may be if it's people parking
to go to Capitol I don't know if there's
people living there or not at the moment
um but those trips were kept in to be
conservative okay so the current study
does not include those
trips well they're they're included in
the existing count data okay all right
the previous study removed those trips
right so the study that we have now is
based entirely just on the count data
correct the current conditions any the
current conditions yes so when and we'll
look at a couple of uh examples here in
a little bit but when we see that the
Alexander uh easement has seen activity
you're saying that that isn't associated
with any current use of the
property can you elaborate on that sure
um if we could go to exhibit D of the
current
study
where I don't know where you want me to
go oh
it's 80 or 90 may I don't have a page
number D5 is specifically what I'm
looking for you just G have to tell me
what page because I I don't know these
things by
heart if you did I page 80 oh you passed
it I think I see it's we're looking for
a appendix D page D5 of 17 so we're in e
now so you want to go
up you're getting
them that's
D that's what we're looking for a d one
more looks like D5 so
um and so I don't have a pointer with me
but if we're looking
at
oh
if we're looking at these numbers here I
guess what this is showing it says
Private Drive site access one this line
is South Park View Avenue here's Main
Street correct correct so we're seeing
the inter intersection of Main Street
and um South Park View and then the
Alexander would be located about right
here somewhere correct okay so what this
is showing us is that um and I think D5
if you could scroll up just a tiny bit
so that we can see the top of the
page thank you so we have 2023 am count
so these are physical counts that you
took of this location correct correct so
we're seeing one vehicle out uh
apparently that went straight across
Park View two turned right and headed
north on Park View three turned South
correct okay so since since this
property is um over what period of time
this is the am peak hour okay thank you
okay so and I think in the the traffic
engineering world you call these
westbound trips right yes so we have uh
I don't have enough space in front of me
here so we have two three I believe
that's a five yeah so you have eight
it's coming out yeah right and then so
you have two going in and seven going in
so you have nine going in in the AM
period correct correct
okay could we go down to d8
please
okay thank you if you could scroll up so
um I think that's a little blurry but I
believe that's 2025 am and then it says
build what does that build notation mean
build means your existing
traffic grown up to 2025 with that
background growth rate from morsy and
then added on to that the trip
generation from the proposed development
okay so what we're looking at here is
the total number of trips that your
study
anticipates increasing to in the morning
which would be 29 trips into the
property and 26
out correct is that correct okay so and
I I've got that as an increase
of
222% in the morning so um and we don't
have to go through all this but I just
wanted to make sure that I was
interpreting that data correctly since
I'm not a traffic engineer here um but
if if Bap so decided they could look at
these and they could see what the
current number of trips in and out of
the site is and same down here with Main
Street the way that we interpret this is
that in
2025 everything built out what you're
showing is that there are
686 61 and two so whatever that adds up
to um 747
749 heading west and then we could look
at probably back at D5 and find out what
the increase is correct correct okay all
right thank
you if we could go back and I'm almost
done um to uh the actual page four of
the uh the study for me pleas God
probably PDF page seven or eight
something like
that
folks this is what happens in court and
you know it it's not always as exciting
as it is on TV on the other hand you
could be home tonight watching a replay
of the Michigan
game which which table or page um I know
but the pages don't cor correlate so
could you tell me what you're looking
for go
up yeah that table I believe is what
yes yeah that's what I'm looking for
this is actually my last question and
I'll get out of the way and let the
important people speak thank you um this
so shows the proposed site trip
generation study correct so these are
the different land uses that you looked
at to determine I believe what you
called the build numbers so you looked
at 232 dwelling units the office space
the re uh the retail and the high
turnover restaurant correct correct so
this is these are the only figures that
you looked
at yeah okay
so this study does not take into
consideration the fact that this is a
public parking garage and that there may
be trips to this location for uses that
are not on this site
correct correct for instance there's um
rusty bucket or some restaurant next
door in the Gateway if so if if people
drive to this location to go have dinner
at the Rusty Bucket that's not accounted
for in this study where would you say
those people were parking before
that oh I don't know maybe they weren't
parking I I'm not sure yeah that's what
those trips those existing trips are
included in the report so what if demand
is increased by the demand or the I
guess the supply of parking if the
supply of parking increases there could
be greater demand so more people are
coming to the area
it depends on where those people were
parking before and where they're going
to park after so if they were parking in
this parking lot out here or the parking
lot by Giant Eagle then really it's not
going to change anything would is it
your opinion that an increase in parking
will not cause an increase in demand of
people coming to the
area I would say the existing trips from
those existing developments we coming to
the area before they're going to be
coming to the area
after the specific place where they Park
could be different so it's your opinion
that the fact that there will be 300 new
parking spaces is not going to affect
traffic at
all it I would say it would affect
traffic in some way it just depends on
which specific intersections you're
talking about okay well and I guess the
point that I'm making is that the study
just doesn't take any of that into
account I think that it's reflected in
the existing data okay fair enough thank
you thank you Gina have members of the
board have any followup questions for
Gina I have a just a quick question just
so I understand when you were talking
about the chart for
2025 in that chart you talked about the
background was increased plus the
additional development yes and so what
you're saying that that is that's the
the numbers that you're for morsy that
everybody applies that is saying whether
or not this I mean the development is
included but the numbers are increasing
in addition to the development because
of surrounding developments and just the
nature of the increase in traffic that
we are all experiencing and living
through uh in central Ohio yes
absolutely
exactly okay I just wanted to be sure I
was understanding that correctly okay
thank you Katherine appreciate your
patience thank you thank you appreciate
it U what I'd like to do is two things
number one I'd like to ask if there are
and I like to sort of go back and forth
are there folks here that are pro
opponents of the of the application can
I see some hands on people who would
like to speak in behalf of the project
okay so what I'm going to suggest to the
board is that we uh listen to one uh
proponent witness and then take a five
minute break because we've been sitting
around here for two and a half hours and
I hate to take a break but we have to a
little break here short break and then
reconvene quickly and then I'd like to
go pro con Pro con until we uh get
everybody that wishes to speak tonight
and in some order so if I could have a
pro and I know somebody that's in the
back there might need to go do some
other things tonight and and that might
be uh don't worry about it that's fine
come on up
sir and even though I know who you are
you are smaller than the average bear
but you're still a bear how about that I
appreciate that and can you hear me okay
I can hear you fine I have already and
have you been sworn in I have it thank
you would you please identify yourself
and your position in this world jod
forier uh Beckley resident almost 28
years 164 South cassingham I also work
at Capitol University I serve as Provost
and vice president of learning also a
professor of psychology and I am a
university officer okay thank you very
much that's helpful to hear tell us what
you think and remember at this point in
time we're on the three minute gig so
your three minutes will start now I'll
be very quick so in 2017 when Capitol
University acquired the Seminary we knew
very in quick order that we needed to
make decisions about about the Trinity
North property we housed students there
there was quite a bit of deferred
maintenance we inherited and we also by
myself personally have been involved in
the Bexley Southwest Master planning uh
for about a decade which developed the
University District so with that
framework we looked at potential uses
for the site in the end made the
decision that after reviewing the
facilities and and needs on Main Street
and needs of the University potential
needs for the City that monetizing the
real estate and really looking to find a
solution for activating for pedestrians
Main Street was a better solution for
for the institution we um as a small
private institution one of the defining
characteristics again and again that we
hear about study after study is our
location we like to think that we're
good for Bexley we know Bexley is good
for us especially Main Street it is a
defining characteristic for our
institution and that was mentioned
earlier by Jason the the double
activation on both sides of the street
that is a dream for us and we're excited
about how the pro the project can
enhance and provide to the city and the
university uh Financial incentives new
amenities but primarily pedestrian
engagement it will do more to bring in
students to the institution as well as
help um retain and attract uh employees
thank you all right thank you very much
I appreciate it your question course um
I'm not as familiar with with your
enrollment but do you think that these
apartments are gonna be priced in line
with your students being able to afford
to live there I don't think so okay
thank you I hope
not all
right thank you sir Mr for we appreciate
it all right let's take a a five minute
break it is uh uh exactly uh
838 we're going to go to
845 we'll reconvene at
8:45
we have um an apologetic applicant here
for the brenwood road case if that
gentleman would come forward uh we're
GNA get this case done in a few minutes
and move on and uh so this is case
number uh where is it
here Bap 23 we're just adjourning the
case for a few minutes uh on 2200 East
Main this is case bz ap- 23-20 2572
brenwood
Road
please um the owner is Maran Handler the
applicant is K kernin Smith the request
is to seek a modification to a variance
approved by the board of zoning and
planning on July 27th 2023 which allowed
a
202x 30ft flat roof detached garage to
be replaced by a 23x 34 detached garage
and located 3 feet from the north rear
property line and 5 foot one inch from
the East side property line the
applicant is now seeking approval to
allow the new garage three feet from the
East side property
line um sir you probably have not been
sworn please raise your right hand state
your name Brian testerman Brian you
testify that the truth you're going to
give this that the testimony you're
going to give the board this evening
will be the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth I did thank you
very much Kathy give us a little
background please uh this application
was heard in July uh on the 27th and it
was granted a variance to have
a 23 by 34 garage replace a replace the
existing 22 by 30 to garage uh
apparently the applicant wishes put the
garage back in the same location in
proximity from the East property line
however on once construction started
after the permit was issued it was
discovered that the property line was
not where they thought it was so they
located the pin and the setback
requirement will be met the minimum set
back requirement is three feet however
in the case that they requested they
were they were going to place it at 5T 1
in I see so the distance is not the
variance issue but the size of the
structure was the variance issue so I
felt it needed to come back for this
board to recognize that it will not be
at five feet but actually three feet but
still in the same location as the
previous garage okay in other words the
garage didn't move the property line
moved yes didn't move but it
was God knows how do you say that you
know all right
anyway um uh is that summarize things
pretty well absolutely all right is
there anybody in the audience that is
for or against this case you probably
all are here to talk about this case
aren't you yeah um members of the board
do you have any questions or
comments Kathy we have findings of fact
conclusions of law on this matter
please yes the findings of fact and
decision of the board for application
number bcap 23-20 for property located
at 2572 Brentwood upon consideration of
the application proposed variance and
evidence and testimony before the board
finds the applicant has proven the
criteria to Grant an area variance to
beic code section 12261 c have been met
and a variance from mexic Cod section
12215 to allow a garage previous
previously approved at 5et 1 inch from
the side east side property line to be
located 3 feet from the East side
property
line okay and I want to clarify it's a
23 by 34 square foot garage okay very
good thank you members of the board any
challenges or changes to that finings of
fact sir are you okay with that
rendition of the finings of conclusions
of law all right do I hear a motion to
approve the findings of fact conclusions
of law please so move shik Mr shik thank
you second Turner thank you Mr
Turner please call the role Mr
shik yes Mr Levine yes Mr Turner yes Mr
Mr ashel brener yes and chairman behal I
vote Yes as well the variance or the
alteration to the Varian is is granted
thank you very much thank
you thank you
folks I had a feeling that might be the
easier of the two
cases anyway um so at this point we have
uh uh the three minute limit and what we
have is I want to hear from maybe one uh
opponent and one proponent one thing I'd
ask is of the opponents since Mr Hunt
has spoken on behalf of the homeowners
in the Alexander maybe hear from an
opponent that is not an Alexander
resident first are there any such me uh
people here ma'am ma'am why don't you
two come up and we'll hear the two of
you both of you come on up and we'll
hear you one at a
time ma'am were you sworn in earlier yes
okay thank you please state your name
and your resident address my name is
Mary dick and I live at 486 South Park
View 486 South Park View that's close by
that's right next door to the Alexander
okay thank you very much I like your
house yeah yeah tell me uh what you
think about this proposal um
well I just I want to say thank you for
once because some of the things that you
were asking I had on my list to oh good
um I wanted to know if there would be a
dog park included because I've been on
Parkview since 1989 I was there when the
Alexander was built I was there when we
were going through all this with the
Alexander all
right
um what happened at the beginning was
after the residents moved
in a lot of them thought our yard our
property was a dog park and I had people
up on my porch I had people taking their
dogs around the side I had to always go
out there and ask people to clean up
after their dogs we have dogs I mean we
had them they're gone now but there was
just no respect for that and I had to I
worked with the um maintenance
supervisor at the Alexander and he made
signs and stuff and and uh tried to help
keep the people from using our yard as a
dog park so I was just that needs to be
included because this is three times the
size of the people that were living in
the Trinity apartments
and younger people seem to like to have
pets too right so I'm thinking I can
only imagine what this is going to be
like that's just one of my
concerns the other thing is is living
through a a major construction like this
is that this will be probably a
two-year um it'll probably take about
two years to do it's going to be noise
unbelievable the backing up of the
Machinery is
nonstop there is
yeah your your point is easily
understood the dirt the dust I mean we
were cleaning our furnace filters we
were cleaning out our air conditioning
filters I mean it it's just amazing how
much dirt is created and I'm wondering
how that if they're gonna you
know take that into consideration for
the residents I I think that would be a
good question to ask them what what
techniques they're going to use to try
to minimize those issues you know this
is one of those situations if you lived
on Fair Avenue that wouldn't be a
problem right but when you buy this
close to Main Street next to the to the
commercial
districts there's always a chance
something's going to get bu in your case
you've suffered it on two or three
occasions and even across the street
from you they built the Bank building
right and it wasn't that wasn't that bad
I mean you're going to get some action
and you kind of that's okay but when
it's right there next to you behind you
all day long that gets to be a
concern the ESS when they have the dump
trucks for when they're doing all this
dirt where what roads are they going to
use are they going to use the drive next
to the Alexander because that was
already talked
about breaking down I mean those people
live there how are they going to get in
and out when you've got dump trucks
going in and out that's a major concern
yeah um the trash pickup is also a
concern they're saying they're going to
use a um privatized company you got 30
seconds and we've got rumpy so we're
gonna have rumpy twice a day we're gonna
have the privatized companies I mean are
they gonna work together is what I guess
I'm asking good questions
um you're just about out of time right
now I think oh and what will they you
know this is for Beckley they keep
telling us this is good for Bexley this
is for be what are they going to do for
the residents who have to live through
this till it is
done that's my C thank you thank you
very much thank you thank you for your
patience and your your words
ma'am and I have your name where you
were sworn in earlier I was yes your
name and your address please Jen deasio
446 South Columbia um pretty close to
brighten yeah um have a lot of thoughts
and I'm gonna sure I'm gonna agree with
a lot of the denters but my main concern
that I don't feel like has really been
addressed from a traffic perspective is
how it will affect the traffic on Brien
and quite frankly on South Columbia um
there has been as a resident um sorry
okay sorry so my concern is about
traffic and how it will affect um
traffic on Brien and on South Columbia
um you know we're seeing how difficult
this is going to be we're all talking
about how Main Street is already
congested since the drexal project has
happened which you know I understand was
to make Drexel safer and allow for
slowing of traffic there has been a
significant increase in the traffic
that's going down South Columbia people
are speeding my kids literally almost
got hit by a car two nights ago on
Monday evening I immediately messag the
mayor he forwarded to the chief of
police that they're going to do a speed
study but but people use South Columbia
that are non-residents as a speeding
ground to get to avoid what's already
become traffic congestion with now
adding all of these apartments and all
of this Commerce people are going to be
frustrated and they're going to reroute
in an area where people blow the stop
sign at brighten all the time going down
South Columbia there's so many young
families you know Mr Cass you know
kindly made a comment or made a comment
about understanding if you bought on
brighten you know that your closest
commercial District I mean I chose my
house because I love to walk I lived in
New York City for 12 years and this Fel
this Urban Suburban environment I loved
I when I bought my house in South
Columbia I also loved the peace and the
quiet and the comfort of what I bought
and I paid more money for that house
than maybe other areas particularly
because of those reasons and this um
type of project was never in my mind
that would be ultimately resulting so I
appreciate and understand the need for
growth grow and I absolutely know and
that we need to have you know
additional um funding into our city but
the scope of this project just seems
extremely large for that area so let me
ask you though to get to your street
they they go down off of Maine they go
down Parkview let's just say right
correct now if we're GNA go north and
you're trying to avoid Drexel you could
just go keep going north on Parkview
right why would you go right and then
left on columia no stop
Pard stop signs currently right now
South Columbia does not have the stop
signs at every cut through so at Dale
and Elm which is also you know a problem
um that sounds like an issue for the
mayor and for the traffic engineering
folks been brought up I think multiple
times and again um so that is one of the
main reasons you know people were
speeding on Drexel now they're speeding
on South Columbia but I think I mean
again I'm not a traffic person um I just
can tell you from my own personal
experience
I've had I the there's no question I
mean I've lived there now for almost six
years that there's increase in traffic I
mean I go out of my house multiple times
a day every day so all right we won't
know this if you don't come here and
tell us so we appreciate very much
you're taking the time to do so I
appreciate the time I do thank you thank
you all right can we have one of the
proponents Judy come on
up
you were sworn earlier state your name
and your resident address please I'm
short so I better pull it up that's
right um you want my address did you say
and your name yeah Judy fiser 190 South
Dawson Avenue and I know what she's
talking about because we're one BL over
from Drexel and we're getting an
increase because we have no stop signs
on Dawson it's interesting but that's
what happens I know so what I wanted to
say and it has nothing to do with all
the plans that all of you understand
very well I'm just talking from a
personal perspective we've been in
Bexley for 50 years we want to sell our
house four of our best friends were in
the same predicament they wanted to stay
in Bexley because they had kids and
grandkids which I have in Bexley I don't
want to leave Bexley and there's nowhere
to go and one of them went to New Albany
two went downtown and one went to new uh
to German Village I don't want to do
that I I we're ready you know to start
downsizing at at our age and but we
really don't feel like we have any
choice in the matter there's just
nowhere to go and to Me Maybe there'll
be some tweaking on this and so on but
this just seems ideal to me for people
and I have many friends still in Bexley
who are feeling the same way at our age
we want to stay here we want to put our
houses up for sale and we'd like
somewhere
really nice to go and I know that the
other developments that Continental has
done I've checked them out are really
lovely so that's that's all I wanted to
say that's an excellent perspective
thank you very much you all right so how
about another opponent that still
doesn't live in the
Alexander
ma'am please were you were sworn in
earlier were you not was thank you can I
have your name and your residence
address my name is Mrs James heden I
submitted a uh letter to the council
this morning and I would like that
entered into the record okay so let me
talk to you about letters for two
seconds here all right letters are not
able to be cross-examined or questioned
and as a result they're kind of a
hearsay situation we get a lot of them
so the fact that you're here to testify
I'd like for you to say what's in your
letter as much as you can to to get it
to get it out of the way and to get up
what your thoughts are into the record
in a way that is
allowable is that okay yes now the staff
is allowed to read the letters that come
in I don't see how they wouldn't read
them but we as a board that are making
decisions cannot consider them okay
that's all uh my address is 409 South
Parkview Avenue okay I have lived and my
husband and I have lived there for 51
years so we have seen many changes in
Bexley you moved there when you were two
one of those deals right yes and first
of all I would like to register the
protest that was also noted by the
attorney for the uh Alexander people I
checked the agenda this afternoon at 4
o'clock and the agenda still said that
they were asking for five-story that
they were asking for parment Vari uh
parking variances and other things which
I don't think you can change at the last
minute and say uh that that we've had
adequate notice to find out what getting
an actual statement as to what was
proposed in terms of parking and what
was required in the code I have not been
able to get a straight answer the
several times I have inquired okay thank
you uh the first thing I would like to
uh say is remind everybody of what the
Bexley zoning code States as its purpose
in section one to uh
1240 and that is that its purpose is to
preserve protect and enhance existing
development that it is to provide for
sound and orderly development in
appropriate locations compatible with
existing
development and it's supposed to be done
in the interest of the public health
safety
convenience Comfort prosperity and
general welfare and I do not see that
the traffic which is already horrendous
I don't see that the parking that is
going to be going out into Columbia
Parkview Brien Drexel uh and over down
to Sheridan that that is going to be any
that's going
to enhance the community and is going to
indeed deteriorate the enjoyment the
comfort and the safety of the people who
already live
here and the major thing however is I
listen to the presentations from the
proponents and I have not heard one
single justification for a variance
there are seven criteria that you are
supposed to to to uh consider and they
have the preponderance of the evidence
to say to convince you they have not in
any way addressed the fact that they
could use this property with uh without
the substantial increase from three
stories to six stories they have not
made any issue that it is uh in with all
of the criteria
there whether they've Pro prop they they
purchased the property with the
knowledge of the zoning restriction they
haven't even purchased the property yet
and they're asking for changes and
haven't indeed presented any evidence
that that is a that that there they
would not have done this if they had
known and that the uh they have not
presented any evidence by preponderance
the spirit and intents behind the zoning
requirement of three stories and uh the
less mass that have been reversed this
is a massive intrusion of density of
people and businesses that is not in all
keeping with the small town the small
business business and the small
buildings that Bexley is known for is
completely out of character thank you
thank you very
much how about a
proponent V you want to come
up my name my name is Vasa Mangano I
live at 56 North Parkview and have a
business at 2268 East Main
Street um
I'd like to acknowledge everyone um all
their concerns and how much it speaks to
um the passion everyone shares for
Bexley
um I've known um Mr Cass for over 22
years and I've never known anyone more
dedicated in every way possible to the
wellness of beex Bexley especially since
he's lived uh here all his life and
there's something to be said for
that before jepp and I opened our
restaurant in
1996 we were met with all sorts of
resistance the largest parking and it
has not
changed um we our space was about a th
square feet and um the opposition to
opening that restaurant was tremendous
um we also faced objections to serving
alcohol that it was too close to the
church um the Aesthetics of the
building it was all very
discouraging um but after 27 years I
feel our success and our restaurant
started a growth in the city that
created an interest and paved the way
for attracting
businesses um I'm going to pass these
around you guys can look this is from
1999 it was a project
um Main Street Redevelopment so I think
you said 2004 but I I think they started
even a bit earlier than that um so there
was a Main Street Redevelopment that
began around
1999 and I feel the momentum um while
not fastpaced hasn't stopped and what a
difference it's all made to Main Street
and
Bexley we're talking about growth a lot
and um I think growth is
inevitable
uh in Bexley look at the medians on Main
Street Broad Street most recently Drexel
we've had the addition of a new CVS
grammar C the addition to Jeffrey
Mansion um the residential and
Commercial project on the corner of
Maine and Park View um the
Alexander um As Cities grow they create
employment they stimulate
entrepreneurship positive economic
impact to businesses they Foster diverse
population
cultures um societal
progress Mr Cass provides Insight
inspiration and investment for Beckley
he leads an important process of
building locally driven development and
growth that will create economic
opportunities and Improvement for Main
Street thank you Frank for your
unyielding commitment to this
community thank you V yep thank you and
I want you to know that I'm not an
elected official here but I know this
whole community supports you and wishes
you and jeppe the best thank you very
much thank
you okay how about do we have another
opponent that is not a Alexander
resident ma'am with the mask come on
forward if you would
please
oh we'll do the white mask
first it's not that a I'm color
coordinated here you know but all right
ma'am have you been sworn in uh last
night but no no today will you raise
your right hand do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're going to give
is the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes thank you and please
state your name and your resident
address into the microphone if you could
P pull it down toward yourself now the
whole thing yeah the whole thing there
you go the whole the whole process just
pull it toward
yourself all
right
um uh I appreciate you're allowing me to
uh speak here um I'm not allowing you
you have the right to speak here so what
is your name name and your address
please yeah it's Mary
Connor and
um you live at 2170 brighten okay thank
you I actually have two
residences okay in this area but okay
good for you well hopefully hopefully
not much longer I see okay I got you I I
appreciate that uh the the
uh the developer is proud of his
contributions to Bexley and I know all
of which he is justifiably uh
financially personally benefited from
but it doesn't give him any more rights
before City boards than any other
citizen that is definitely true
including those who live in the
Alexander or who are new to Bexley in
the last five seven 12 years as a
lifelong resident and neighbor I care
about what those people and The Wider
Bexley Community think because really
this impacts all of back you know if it
can happen here it can happen somewhere
else in our community I appreciate that
the Giant Eagle development made clear
accommodations for truck traffic and I
think that's a big issue for the
immediate project and I'm not seeing
accommodations for that considering
there will be restaurants medical and
commercial facilities in this building I
Echo one of the witnesses concerns about
construction traffic because I would
expect that that traffic could be using
the Brien Road passageway that exists
now I note that gersy bookstore and
kitties are nice additions to Bexley
life very nice but that development
didn't involve the imposition of two to
300 tenants their visitors hundreds of
customers and Etc I don't know what
Bexley Universe the traffic study was
done in but it didn't include a universe
where a five Lane Main Street between
alen Creek and Drexel functions in my
experience mostly as a two-lane and Park
View Avenue it's a thoroughfare many
days and this this street Main Street
between alen and Drexel serves freeway
entrances and
exits indirectly and Kroger you know
Banks um capital A lot of traffic coming
from 33 uh College Avenue I I just
think there's a lot of attention that
should be paid to that I'm wondering if
the board um asked the developers to
fund 3D modeling which would answer a
lot of questions uh that you have on
traffic patterns sight lines proximities
from you know views from balconies and
things like that I Echo the
disappointment of an earlier
um person about
um holding hearings or meetings without
um adequate postings on websites I mean
I if I was at the board meeting last
night and I understood that the ARB was
going to um to be uh producing some
recommendations for you and noting
concerns but I look this afternoon for
that document and couldn't see what what
was said so I think it's um a true issue
of du process for Citizens and a repes a
recipe for Publican fusion and
misinformation to spread if if we here
don't know what it is you know you're
considering um and finally um I you know
I hear about uh your three minutes oh
I'm sorry your three minutes is down but
you can finish up I last night I asked a
question about um whether the
ARB could consider would consider uh one
of the witnesses comments about putting
the parking underground parking garages
underground which would lower the height
of the
building and uh I was just told that the
board's responsibility is to address the
application as of was as it was
submitted however obviously there were
negotiations so you know was any
consideration given to that idea since a
lot of the focus on this is that it's
tall building yeah taller than anything
we have and it's to me a development
that should be scaled back okay thank
you very much we appreciate your
comments M
Connor Thank You proponent how about in
the back there yes
ma'am how you doing were you here when
we swore everybody in I was yes I'm
Megan Walker thank you I live at 2725
brenwood and um I'm also a real estate
agent all right and actually I'm here to
kind of talk from that view okay um I'm
attending actually tonight on behalf of
the Powers group David and Laura Powers
who are also residents of we work
together they're out of town they were
unable to be here so okay um we're
talking on on behalf of of the three of
us um we are truly excited about the
possibility of this development and um I
guess by setting the stage that I think
we all know the local Columbus real
estate market is facing pressure from a
lack of available inventory for buyers
and Bexley is certainly no exception to
that over the past few years Bexley has
experienced um record low inventory
levels
and even as of today there's only 14
active listings today in our community
um there's simply just not enough
housing options for those buyers who
want to be in Bexley so those these low
inventory levels are coupled with a
pre-existing challenge that actually
Judy Fischer and I think um Frank had
already mentioned um within this Bexley
housing market and that that is the
scarcity of downsize options for
longtime Bexley residents who want to
remain active members within the
community but
desire um to you know to be here but in
many cases they also want um single
floor plan living low maintenance simple
living and I can say as local market
participants we've watched way too many
Bexley residents search for this type of
Housing and um not able to find it here
in Bexley so they they leave and go to
other areas of Columbus just as as Judy
was mentioned
um we believe that the prop the proposed
development seems to take a great stride
towards helping solve this problem it
has the potential to provide these
longtime Community residents to an
opportunity to remain here and closely
tied to the community and in doing so
then that also adds it it also opens up
additional inventory as these residents
sell their longtime um longtime family
homes uh the retail component we also
feel a very exciting enhancement for the
Bexley Community um the the Cameron
Mitchell restaurant and a second eery as
well as the um potential for the 7,000 s
feet uh Health provider space we believe
is an added plus um many many times we
bring out of area buyers into Bexley
introduce them to Bexley and the first
thing they want to see after they see
their homes is let's see your downtown
let's see your Main Street and we I
think can all agree that in the last
decade our our community certainly has
improved greatly on our main street
level um the addition of this project in
our opinion we think will further
enhance okay so um just to wrap up as
lifetime residents of Bexley we
certainly appreciate and em and embrace
the small intimate Community lifestyle
that Bexley offers and yet we've also
seen the the benefit of vibrant small
community and downtown areas in in other
suburbs of Columbus that um have added
local amenities and walkability to their
neighborhoods and we believe that this
project will do that we certainly have
the utmost confidence in the developers
with their track record here with the
other things they've done here in Bexley
and um we really we just deemed that
this project will be successful for
years to come and that bexy residents
will have a key addition to the much
needed challenge of finding a downsize
option thank you very much
thanks all right let's see that was a
pro ponent need an opponent who at this
point in time I the man the lady in the
back I passed you up last time so let's
get you this time thank you for
reminding me
there okay ma'am have you been sworn yes
sir I have thank you would you state
your name and your resident address
please my name is Gloria Higgins and I
live at 2202 brighten Road I'm not a
transient I've lived here for 25 years
and if I live long enough I'll live here
for 25 more who knows good for you I'm
rooting for you okay now I've attended
all of these meetings the Barb and the
be app except I think for one when I had
to be out of
town but what we have heard tonight and
they can't hear you very well sorry that
micop we have heard tonight there you go
thank you and at all the previous
meetings uh is many issues and almost
everything other than the appearance of
the building which has been much
improved have related to the size of the
building and nobody is talking about
that as it this lady did but the it's
the elephant in the room the ele in the
room is the elephant of the building and
the Elephant is just too
big now at the first meeting I asked Mr
Katz why does this building have to be
that big and he was honest with me he
said because otherwise he could not make
a profit by developing this property now
if I could be so bold as to make a
suggestion to both the seller and the
buyer if they really love Bexley as much
as they say then why don't they shrink
the elephant put the elephant on a diet
do less we would have less parking
problems uh less problems of the space
between
buildings and this may be a successful
development but you know I'm not an
architect I'm not a city planner
but my intuition on this is that all
these units will not fill and then
Bexley is going to be left with a big
white elephant
so that's all I have thank you very much
for your
comments can we have the microphone back
if you take that with we're gonna we're
GNA hear every comment you make the rest
of the evening uh who am I looking for a
did you sign did she sign the the lady
in the
green back there do you mind
okay thank you were you here early
enough tonight that you got sworn in yes
okay and thank you for your patience
sure please give me your name and your
residence address yes I'm Carol cofman
and my address is 2191 Briden Road okay
right there Gloria is my neighbor okay
all right um so I will say in general um
I do support this project and I
appreciate
the proposal to shrink the building
envelope um especially on the North side
which abuts our property sure and the
placement of a sixth floor if that is
approved on the Main Street side is far
far preferable um however you know and
and I will say the reason that we
support this Redevelopment is you know
we live we look into that parking lot we
we see that this site is in sore sorely
in need of Redevelopment and I really do
want Bexley to to be working to create a
welcoming Community where more people
can stay here they can come here and and
they don't all have to buy single family
homes to be here but I do have a few
concerns I wanted to share uh for your
consideration as well please uh so first
I I know that there's been a lot of
consideration of the concerns of folks
living on the west side of this
development I'd like for more Outreach
more conversation with the folks like us
who live on the Northern Edge we are
very impacted and haven't had a lot of
Outreach or opportunity to share our
concern or our input thus
far um secondly as I was looking at the
landscaping design uh proposal this
evening I noticed that the tree cover
proposed along the northern side that
again abots my property uh is is not
adequate um I I would recommend that you
you take a look at that and and make
that much denser to provide a better
buffer uh not only for noise but ALS
also for privacy for our
home U secondly I do I am an
environmentalist and I am concerned
about the amount of Hardscape that this
uh property development entails so you
know I've lived in Bexley for a number
of years we do have periodic issues with
flooding and I'd like to um urge you to
consider the opportunity to create rain
Gardens uh permeable pavers in the
parking lot and other Le features that
can really reduce the risk of flooding
in that part of of town and also do
something good for the
environment I'm also uh concerned that
none of the plan units so far are truly
affordable so there are price points
that are varying and you know we do see
that there's some smaller units um that
will be affordable for some folks but
certainly not for all so if we want to
be a welcoming community that that is a
concern for me um and finally I'm I'm
concerned that thus far I'm I'm pleased
that they're considering uh a pace uh
kind of investment but I would really
like to see some solar on this site if
if Bexley is green and I think we are my
sweater says we are Bexley is important
to the city you know how can we make
sure that sustainability is front and
center so no one's really brought that
up I wanted to share those concerns and
recommend their address before moving
forward thanks very much thank
you all right uh
I guess that was a proponent I I don't
know lot of suggestions there you know
that that was good and some new ideas we
haven't heard of so far uh opponents now
I think we've had enough non Alexander
folks that if some one of the Alexander
folks Mr gross you want to come up thank
you
sir I'm Jim gross I live at 500 South
Park viw I currently serve as president
of the Alexander condominium unit Owners
Association thank you sir in resp first
I want to just clarify uh uh Miss
Cunningham's question our lawyer is
being paid by the
Association but ultimately of course
he's being paid by the unit owners sure
so and the people who will speak after
me are all Property
Owners so you will hear from people who
are property owners and have standing
sure uh I would also like to say we're
not
anti-development we are but we are for
responsible
Development I've gone to all the ARB
meetings they've struggled mightily they
have improved the looks but it's obvious
that what they have done tweaking The
Building architecture Al has not solved
or mitigated the negative impacts of
this building on the neighbors for a
simple
reason the the issue here again as the
lady before me said where's the
discussion on whether or not the
building footprint scale and density of
this project are
appropriate and compatible with the
neighbors and you know the neighbor here
are all investor have invested their
money in the
community and the code clearly says you
have to consider the impact on the
existing
properties and yes we are a five-story
building we have 31 units people have
paid a lot of money for those units and
it exists and it is entitled to
protection but finally my wife and I
just returned from visiting our sen in
WETA if you're familiar with WKA suburb
of Chicago it's very much like Beckley
and going to downtown WETA is like going
to downtown Beckley what is appealing
about it is the human scale of the of
the commercial area there are no massive
there are no buildings the size of a
Home Depot in the middle of of WETA
everything is human scale and the
problem with this project if you grant
the variance if you let this go forward
it does change I think we all have to
recognize that it changes Main Street
forever because the new standard is this
building and so there is is there any
building any project that will be too
big too dense or too tall
to be allowed on Main
Street the human scale will be for the
neighborhood for the residential areas
for the for the commercial Corridor will
be changed forever and that is what
makes the human scale of Main Street I
think is what makes it unique and it it
is we're not we're not a
Dublin if you want to let you we're not
a Dublin we're be we want stay Bexley
and it involves protecting the values
that are here as well as as accepting
change and no we're not anti- you know
it's all the stuff is always oh boy if
you if you oppose a project you're
against change you're a mosback you're a
neanderthal no that's not what's going
on here and the people in this room who
oppose deserve to be respected and not
treated as if their views and their
investment in this community are
meaningless and because they bought
their property is where it is that they
have to accept anything that's put there
that's not the way it
works thank
you and I hope that you your comments
sort
of indic indicate that maybe we as a
board are not being respectful of
certain people that are here to testify
and and I certainly want you to know
that we don't have any such disrespect
and and I don't think your comment was
appropriate in that regard that was not
my intent thank you but let me just say
I spent 27 years this isn't a debate so
you've had your three minutes and and
we're done no no but really I'm just
commenting on you that we're not dis I I
think I should have an opportunity you
want to talk about respect uh uh that we
you have some evidence that we're
disrespectful of
anybody Mr gross we've had enough
discussion and your three minutes are
over thank
you all
right ma'am right there how's
that thank
you have you been sworn thank you very
much and your name and Resident address
uh my name is Patty Shaw I live at 383
Westland Avenue okay where the traffic
is terrible too okay but it has nothing
to do with this project I'm
thinking they can't hear you yeah you
have to speak right into the microphone
it's it's a very touchy yeah so I've
lived in Bexley for 30 years um 22 years
on in North
Bexley um eight years on
Westland
and I'm very much in support of the
project first of all it's on Main Street
so it's a little
different than when the Alexander was
built on park viiew at just like I'm
sure when the Park View arms were built
a thousand years ago so I realized that
changes pretty hard in this city
obviously I think it's a wellth thought
out responsibly
proposed development and what I like the
best about it is that it's going we want
people to come to Beckley we want people
to spend money in Beckley we want to
increase our tax base in a way that the
homeowners won't have to almost
singularly bear so I hope you'll
positively consider this development
thank you thank you very
much all right um we want an or
proponents or opponents I want an
opponent now opponent ma'am in the back
please have you been sworn in all right
would you please give me your name and
residence address yes my name is Lynn
Jeffrey 500 South Parkview Avenue
okay I was born and raised in Bexley and
have lived here 61 out of my 66 years I
have watched the city grow firsthand and
the pride people have in their homes and
neighborhoods is just amazing in 2009 I
purchased a unit on the northeast corner
of the Alexander and have enjoyed living
there for over 14 years I'm here this
evening to address the height Mass scale
and compatibility of the development
what does compatibility mean
according to the American Planning
Association is the characteristics of
different uses activities or design
which allow them to be located near each
other in
harmony characteristics of compatibility
include height scale mass and bulk
compatibility does not mean the same as
but rather refers to the sensitivity in
maintaining the character of the
existing development or area the height
scale and mass of this development is
complete opposite of Harmony and
compatibility for our neighborhood it
simply is not compatible with the single
family homes the Alexander or the Park
View arms we all share our small West
Central corner of Bexley and the streets
of Maine Park viw Columbia and brighten
a building with more than 230 rental
apartments and a public parking garage
of 300 plus spaces does not share a
community but rather takes over the
neighborhood variances are granted to
allow projects to De deviate from the
standard of building codes in some way
while the city code allows for variances
the variances granted must still be
compatible with the neighborhood and
follow the laws provided for variances
per section 125 4.14 Main Street
District special permits it states
special permits to allow the maximum
height of a structure of up to five
stories or up to seven stories west of
Sheridan Avenue and south of Main Street
this piece of real estate is neither of
Sheridan north south of Maine there
simply is not a special permit or
variance code to allow for a structure
with a partial six story on this parcel
of land many people said we must have
realized it would be developed and I say
to them that back in
2009 excuse me oh dear I'm not sure back
in 2009 when Trinity Lutheran was in
full swing what would have made us think
it would be re redeveloped someday and
let me be clear I am not not against
Redevelopment but I'm very much against
this particular concept which as the old
saying goes appears to be trying to fit
a square peg in a round hole what has
been submitted for review and approval
is clearly a case of conflicting land
uses including mismatch density height
mass and layout and does not meet the
standard for an affirmative
recommendation for certificate of
appropriateness thank you thank you very
much that was very succinct well thought
out and under three
minutes all right
sir have you been sworn in I have not I
have not signed this either that's all
right would you raise your right hand
when you're done signing yeah and tell
me that you swear or affirm that the
testimony you give the board this
evening will truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth I do thank you
very much please give me your name and
residence address I'm Ross fredman I
live at 938 South Remington
Road okay sir and tell us what you think
about this project um so I've I'm born
I'm a third generation Bexley person um
my parents were born and raised here my
daughter is a fourth generation Bexley
person um and I grew up at uh 356 South
Park viw just a just a few blocks away
from this development um I'd like to
bring a perspective from someone younger
as as a homeowner in Bexley I'm 31 years
old um and I think there's been a lot of
representation from different
demographics than than a younger person
um when I moved back to Columbus after
um College I was looking for this sort
of housing on the east side and actually
wasn't able to find it and so I moved to
Grand View although I was working at
Easton and I was looking for the urban
suburb that I think what what a lot of
the convers ation around is having a a
suburb with the Quiet feel but also with
the commercial District like we are
lucky to have here on Main Street so um
I wasn't able to find that sort of
housing the modern housing that is for
entry level um a lot of people have
spoken about having mixed housing for
all ages and in different types of
modern housing um as as the world
evolves in Bexley a different
perspective on that too is affordability
um when I it took me a N9 years of
working in order to afford a house in
Bexley and at the time in South Bexley
the entry level was around
$300,000 with 3% interest rates and your
interest expense was was around $1,200 a
month the same home that I live in today
is valued closer to
$500,000 with 7% money which is now
you're talking about $2500 to $3,000 a
month to live in the same house plus
your down payment is substantially
larger so having rental units that rent
between 1,500 and even $3,000 is
substantially cheaper than buying a home
for young people to enter Bexley and so
I guess the point that I'm making is
that the entry point to Bexley has gone
up substantially since covid um and I
worry about myself for my next home but
I also worry about entry level um and so
I I don't think that I think that the
affordability of offering such a product
is a benefit to our community not just
for young people but also for the
downsizers and flexible housing as well
okay thank you for your perspective and
appreciate younger people coming to give
us their perspective as well because I
see a lot of gray hair out there but not
too many short 31 year olds 31 year olds
have some apparently not as much
interest in these kinds of things which
is
regrettable all right I need a another
opponent ma'am please you've been
patiently waiting here I appre
appreciate that you were sworn in
earlier I know because I saw you yes I
could see the front row see so please
give me your name and your residence
address my name is Kathy schoneck and I
live at 500 South Parkview in the
Alexander okay I have been a Bexley
resident my entire life of 70 years
except when I went to
college um and I am a Bexley girl
um I bought my condo with my husband in
2008 I've lived there for 15 years I
was one of the very first residents
there my unit is 207 on the southwest
corner okay Southwest okay
so Southeast Southeast Corner Southeast
so my unit and my neighbor's unit on 208
she lives across the hall are the two
units that will be affected the most by
this and I am not against development at
all what I am opposing
um the close um they're putting in a
two-way street MH it will be 10 ft away
from my window
[Music]
that is not
acceptable my unit is directly across
from the second level of the proposed
public garage at last night's ARB
meeting it was pointed out that the
headlights from the vehicles parking
along the west side of the garage would
shine into my unit one of the Architects
admitted that they hadn't even thought
of that I hadn't thought of that either
we been thinking about everything else
but that's another new thing you know
trying to sleep and having more
headlights coming in also while
listening to cars going back and forth
and back and
forth under your
windows the public garage and public
Street will have significant detrimental
impacts on me and my unit including
light shining into my windows traffic
noise fumes odor unsightly views and
loss of
privacy these negative impacts will
clearly have a
detrial detrimental yeah thank you I'm
here to help impact on the value of my
unit I know that you all have heard of
doing no harm this project will do much
harm to me not only financially but
mentally and
emotionally I invite any of you who
would like to come over to my unit to
see exactly what I'm talking about
anytime I'll leave you my number just
call the city of Beckley development
briefing briefing for the Trinity
apartment site issued during the sale
process States on page five and
examining the potential for access and
parking lot configuration proposals the
city will consider the extent to which
the pro proposal provides a substantial
buffer between the proposed development
and adjacent residential uses let me
repeat that provides a substantial
buffer between the proposed development
and adjacent residential issue um
uses in fact the site plan provides no
buffer between the proposed Road and
units on the second floor of the
Alexander these negative impacts are the
result of the size density and height of
the development and the mismatch
placement of a public garage too close
to a residential building they cannot be
resolved by sending the project back to
the ARB
to tweak the
architecture if the application is
approved I intend to appeal the
decision thank you thank you very
much all right in a a proponent yes
ma'am please come
forward have you been sworn in I have
you have okay please give me your name
and residence address uh Cheryl stalford
I'm at 353 South Park View 353 South
Park viw okay thank you very much and
I'm going to keep this short and to the
point wrote this down Mr Cass has been a
Pioneer in our community and Bexley has
evolved and improved because of his
Forward Thinking and his risk-taking
it's comforting to know that the P
developer of this project is one of
long-standing Resident himself who
personally is invested and cares about
our city as a business owner I'm excited
about this project provides retail new
businesses to our neighborhood
generating more op employment
opportunities and generating income my
neighbors and I always talk we need more
restaurants but please no Subs and Pizza
no what Subs and
Pizza
okay um as an interior designer I work
on the top Class A multif family
projects uh around our city and I
experienced firsthand the vibrancy that
these projects provide to the
neighborhoods we need more divers here
in housing um to provide opportunities
for young and old and I want our I want
our neighborhood to be future minded um
we need to be focused on where we're
going I want our neighborhood to
continue to flourish and prosper as I
raise my kids here I do not want to live
in a place that will become stale and
Antiquated because of our fears we need
to do our due diligence to understand
the project get answers to our concerns
Embrace change and be the Pioneers to
continue to make our neighborhood great
for the future Generations thank you
very much thank you also very
succinct M all right I'll get you next
ma'am thank you good evening I have been
sworn okay my name is main Roy I live at
374 South Columbia so half a dozen
houses down uh from Brien okay very good
I will be very brief um I I I am an
attorney um and I Echo Council concern
about the due process I heard a question
asked about what is the due Pro what
what's the required about very you know
how much notice you have to give for a
variance and I didn't hear an answer to
it from your own attorney I didn't hear
an answer number one that's very
concerning to me uh as an attorney
number two why is the staff arguing the
variances Mr Cass should be arguing the
variances he's the applicant but I all I
heard was the staff arguing these are
the variances and this is what this is
what the variance I don't want to hear
it from the staff I want to hear it from
the from the actual architect I'm a
newbie to to Bexley I moved here 18
months ago I downsized to move to Bexley
so and I live in the little actually
known as the little red house it's not
quite as little as it as it sounds as
people think it is all right but and I'm
really finding it hard to believe that
Bexley residents that want to down size
to a one bedroom apartment people saying
well we need these you know we need
these one-bedroom apartments so I can
downsize to it I'm just finding that
really personally hard to believe I
would just like to emphasize due process
you know as as Council also due process
is is what our country is founded on you
can't just show up and start it's
talking about variances that were not
advertised if the gentleman that was
here from Brentwood or Brent what Street
if he came in here and said oh no no
never mind I what I really wanted to do
was build a 40-foot garage I forgot to
tell you guys that but you know what I'd
like you to you know let me build a 40
by 80 foot garage um I I know that
wasn't what I asked but that's what I
really want to do you would have thrown
them out but now we're letting people
come in and ask for variances that no
one ever told us about and I thank you
very much I hear you what you're saying
let me just make a comment too that what
the staff does is is on every case they
give us sort of the factual background
of what's going on and when they're
talking about these things they're not
really
proponents and we have proponents and
opponents of not every case as you could
see sometimes there's no opponents but
uh but we still apply the same
principles whether there's an opponent
or not uh because we have standards as
you know that are statutory that we have
to follow and we we try to follow as the
best of our ability but I appreciate
your your perspective but I do want to
make sure they don't get blaming blamed
for trying to be Pro opponents I think
they it's hard to give these detailed
factual issues enough err so that we
know what we're talking about without
sounding like you're a proponent of the
applicant but they're not and so and we
don't regard them as uh we don't regard
them as cheerleaders for the applicants
either so I I appreciate that because
certainly sounded like a proponent to me
get it okay okay well thank you I
appreciate that all right ma'am you're
next I bypassed you there
accidentally and you're definitely going
to have to hold that down there because
you're like me you're on the short end
well yeah being around the for a while
now practice so you have been sworn I
also saw you being sworn in so I know
you're sworn in uh give us your name and
your resident address Maria rosental I
am
resident and owner at 500 South Parky
Avenue Apartment 208 which is next to my
neighbor Kathy there you go all right
you make sure she behaves herself well
we keep each other on
trust all right and I want to address
something that I haven't heard anything
about the approval of this project by B
app includes evaluation of the means by
which the proposed development will
allow allow for government services to
be carried out one of these Services is
recycling now the city ordinance
3522 passed unanimously earlier this
year according to council woman F and it
is entitled Universal
recycling so it reads commercial and
multifam recycling beginning January 1st
2024 commercial institutional and multif
Family Properties within the city city
of Bexley are required to partake in a
recycling
contract there's a lot more to that but
Bexley has arranged a contract with r
key for businesses and multif Family
Properties minimum size is stated in the
ordinance and Coast is dependent upon
receptacle receptacle size
although we don't know how this would be
implemented because we haven't heard
anything about recycling in that
[Music]
building we know for sure that drum key
will use the large noisy trucks for
collection at least twice a week they
will use the road 10 feet from my
windows on the second floor of the
Alexander to circulate and tip and no
recycling cannot be comp
the noise and pollution enhanced by the
canyon effect created by the proximity
of the buildings comes in addition to
the 247 traffic lights all around loss
of daylight loss of
privacy that the current residents of
the Alexander and residents adjacent to
the development must
endure we hear City officials talk about
how this is a good project the mayor
just sets so it's good for Bexley it's
what Bexley
needs
we are
Bexley this is not good for
us we are
Bexley we do not need this thank you
thank you very
much nicely
stated let me ask a couple questions how
many more people wish to speak tonight
can you raise your
hands
okay so Mr schik you mentioned something
to me earlier and that was should we um
extend past 11 o'clock or not I know you
you raised that issue and it I mean I
think we can go through these more
quickly but we need to give the
applicant a chance to rebut as well and
we're going to be getting up against 11
it is 10
now Mr chair could we
consider cutting the time from three to
two
minutes okay give yes yeah I'm sorry I'm
not gonna take my
own who made me a
lawyer
um would the would the members of the
panel consider an extension to 11:30 as
a immediate remedy here as a possible
remedy my suggestion is we just knowing
that we may extend we just keep working
and see where we are a little bit closer
to 11: I mean 11:30 may not be enough
but but we'll just kind of need to see I
mean none of us like to stay very late
but obviously these people are staying
with us so so let me ask the applicant a
question there's quite a few people here
with their hands up some proponents some
opponents
um
the with the issue surrounding
notice out there I'm not telling you
what I think about it because it doesn't
matter what I think about it it's an
issue it's in
existence would it
be and in view of the fact that every
month we have lots of other cases that
have to wait while we're doing this case
would it be possible to try to come up
with a date for a special meeting to
consider and and finish we we'll finish
this process tonight as much as we can
but I think that the proponents have
some issues they need to address in
rebuttal to the comments that have been
made to be fair here uh would the would
the board and the staff because you you
are all greatly involved here as well uh
in terms of your time and your
professional energy here because you do
have other jobs within the city that you
have to accomplish uh is it Mak sense to
to
suggests that we have a special meeting
sometime in the two to three week range
from now tell me what you think M Rose I
checked the calendar and I know that
December 20th is available okay for our
meeting and I do need to provide a two-
week notice which would go out yes next
week I won't be here but I can have it
done while you're gone before I leave
okay so just out of care are you saying
we stop now and no I'm not I'm saying
let's go to 11 what exactly you're
asking I'm saying let's go to 11 see how
far we get but I can already tell from
the number of people that we have here
the the the proponent is not going to
have enough time to rebut as I have
several questions to ask now based upon
comments that have been made and I'm
sure we all do uh can we so I'm just
suggesting that maybe a special meeting
and and I have to ask the the applicant
if this something he's willing to
consider as well so Mr Cass uh if you
want to you have to talk into the
microphone regrettably
so I'm fine with a special meeting okay
20th I will not be around but my you
know my uh people here can you know
carry on okay um my my preference would
be that we go on this evening um and see
where it gets us um I don't know how
many questions you all have in terms of
the the rebuttal I don't have we don't
have much rebuttal other than to answer
what questions yeah you have there have
been things stated tonight by by the
opponents that I have specific you know
8C you know answers answers to about
five six things I don't know what
questions you have my preference would
be that the one variance that that we
actually asked for the height the height
um you know if you could vote on us
tonight with that height and bring back
back the special meeting for whatever
other variances the other variances are
are interestingly variances that are
kind of your variances um the way I
looked at that I mean Jason sud would
have to say you know when you say you're
you're not talking about the board no
the the the staff whatever that I mean I
you know we didn't care that that when
the building got thinner that it was
supposed to be wider um to meet certain
Main Street criteria stuff like that I
mean we we weren't the those were every
one of these variances has been the
result of ARB I understand okay um which
has done a great job I understand um but
we understand if someone wasn't given
the notice for some of those variances
we don't want the board or us to be open
to appeal so we want to do that the
proper way okay so yeah well just so you
know the board is open to an appeal on
every decision we make I'm yeah for sure
that you know but but I understand it
it's more a matter of of your call on
that but I don't have any problem with
proceeding right now and see how far we
get and then I'm thrown out an idea
Kathy has thrown out a possible date
yeah and I think we have to deal with
the the two variances that were not uh
advertised properly and so that mins an
extra meeting anyways um we'd also need
to make sure that the five of us that
are here tonight that have heard all the
test Mone could also be there that night
because it and it'd be nice that at the
last at the next meeting if there is a
special meeting that we deal with the
issues that have to be brought up at
that point rather than go through all
this again I understand if that's
possible that's why I'm saying we need
the same five people here yeah okay I'm
available all right me too I forget that
I end with an opponent okay so a
proponent ma'am
please were you sworn in earlier okay
would you state your name Tiasha leac
okay Tasha would you raise your right
hand do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give the the
panel this evening will be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes I do thank you very much tell us
where you live um I live at 256 North
cassingham in North Bexley okay um this
is a statement that we sent in but we
were told that emailed statements not
public record right so I'll just read it
okay um so what I sent in was when we
were seeking to relocate to Bexley many
years ago we had a lot of difficulty
finding any housing options within our
budget or any options at all that were
available this was due to Legacy Bexley
residents who Ed their personal
connections or Insider info to make
offers on homes that hadn't even been
listed yet before we were even able to
view them we've seen this continue over
the years that we've lived here it's
disappointing to witness exclusionary
practices in our own community and it
makes it nearly impossible for many of
us Outsiders to find affordable quality
housing that doesn't require extensive
Renovations given the current interest
rates and the price per square footage
home ownership in Bexley is largely
inaccessible for the majority of
Americans most homes here require
updates on top of the higher per square
footage price and the down payment
necessary to qualify for a mortgage than
an average dual income household can
reasonably afford Bexley has been
pricing out anyone who isn't
generationally wealthy or hasn't grown
up in this community or lived here for
decades this trend has only been
exacerbated by current market conditions
and the scarcity of starter homes in our
area that are actually newer or
updated as a household that's
collectively traveled to over 40 States
in this country and nearly a dozen other
countries in the world in addition to
living in different states and two other
countries this Redevelopment we feel is
an opportunity for Bexley to move
forward on a number of fronts mixed use
developments are extremely common in
denser urban areas they provide
amenities that are desirable to many
residents including ones who are
accustomed to living in larger cities
building up is also a more efficient and
sustainable usage of acreage especially
considering that Suburban spraw is a
uniquely American trait which is both
efficient and unsustainable both
environmentally and economically if we
want to alleviate the housing
crisis so our question to this community
is if not here then where if not now
then when housing prices are not
decreasing interest rates are far higher
than they were weight lists for existing
quality apartments and condos are
extensive in the beex and surrounding
neighborhoods there is a societal demand
for this type of housing real estate is
at a premium we shouldn't allow a vocal
minority and this is a minority of
Bexley residents because most of us
can't attend in the evenings if we're
working families and we have children at
home this is holding us back because of
their resistance to progress people keep
saying we're not against development but
what development are you for because I
haven't heard any proclamations of what
they actually do want to encourage new
people to come and to have housing for
other people there's a reason why for
sale signs go up immed imediately from
the younger generation as soon as our
children graduate we want to downsize we
want to not have extensive Renovations
on Century old homes but we don't have
any other options but to leave Bexley
the years that my family has remaining
in Bexley is far more than the years of
many of these residents and it is unfair
to site the time you've been here as
making your opinions more relevant so I
ask instead of asking why people stay
here for Generations maybe we should
should be asking why people don't stay
why they leave let's find a way to
retain our residents and not hold us
back from progress thank you all right
thank you let me ask you a question have
you looked at the at the nature and size
of the units that are in this building I
have and in fact it would have been more
affordable for us to have rented a
two-bedroom unit than to have found a
house here it's not possible with the
average income in Ohio for dual income
families to actually afford to live in
Bexley without generational wealth or
loans from their parents we were paying
effectively two mortgages per month
paying our parents back every month and
paying our mortgage in order to live
here and without that loan we couldn't
have even made a down payment all right
thank you very
much I think it's a an interesting
comment to say you know I've lived here
30 years or a little bit more than that
and to say is it more important to think
about the people that are going to be
living here for the next 50 years or the
those of us who have already lived here
for 50 years that's an interesting
perspective but nonetheless uh I need
now an opponent sir you've been
patiently waiting all evening and I
appreciate that very
much you're you're one of the tall Bears
though and you're gonna have to lift
that thing up no problem I'll be happy
to do that I appreciate that and you
were sworn in because I watched you also
sworn in signed in and I'm Steve Diamond
500 Park View Unit 202 and just for the
record this is past my bedtime so I may
not be at my
best fair
enough I'm gonna be respectful of your
earlier comments that I agree with Mr
gross and some of my neighbors on the
fact that we don't oppose this it's just
we oppose the current proposal and my
neighbor Mrs dick about all the dust
that's going to happen so I briefly just
want to talk about something that I
think is going to affect me and then I
want to counter a few of the comments
that was made by Mr Cass earlier sure so
as an owner of the condominium uh at the
Alexander you know the the one concern
now that we have is going to be the
private driveway that we currently have
that access that you had asked about
earlier this evening and um with all due
respect to Jean I think she did a great
job in the presentation but I think
sometimes it maybe doesn't always
include human nature and water always
seeks its level and the fact now that
you're going to be able to drive all the
way through and have it as a public
access I know will definitely increase
because when Capitol was using that
parking lot in the Trinity we definitely
knew there were definitely cars going in
and out of there at all different hours
with loud music since now it's been
vacant you know it's pretty desolate and
it's actually been very quiet and very
nice so I can only imagine 200 units
plus the amount of traffic now that you
can also cut through and come through
the retail side there's 22 units that
have bedrooms on that accessway so
that's going to affect them uh
drastically as well also we need to
point out and I think it was mentioned
at an earlier meeting that the entrance
into our garage which is the only exit
that we have is directly off of Park
viiew Avenue so for us to enter the
garage really with clearance and you
know some of us aren't as good as
drivers as maybe we were when we were
younger we literally have to go into the
westbound Lane that's going to be coming
out against us to be able to make that
turn into the garage because the first
garage door is the entrance so that is a
problem area so um The increased traffic
will also affect and interfere with our
ability to safely enter and exit that
garage so I want you to to be considera
of that some of the comments that Mr
Cass had made um they talked about last
night and as well as today about the
parking garage being underground and
what a great thing that that is but
unfortunately we live in a world today
that um Bexley although I think all of
us will attest is a very safe
neighborhood and that's why we live here
unfortunately there's no force field to
prevent uh The Unwanted people and
criminals into our community to commit
crimes and we know that that's going to
happen my concern and I've seen it from
experience is now that you have an
underground garage you have a hidden
area which is a crime of opportunity and
they will seek the lowest hanging fruit
and as soon as the criminal of the area
whether it's surrounding or internal
find out that they have a private hidden
area in which to steal cars and that
happens even when they're parked on the
streets and I know that Mr Cass may say
well people are going to steal cars I
think they're going to be less apt to
steal in public because a police car
could happen to be driving by or a
bystander or just somebody in the area
but when you're in a parked underground
garage and there's nobody there that's
an opportunity that you will probably
see a lot of theft now how do you solve
that you get security right so they're
going to have around the clock security
and with 200 units it may not cost them
that much more rent but if I'm going to
rent somewhere and I'm looking around
and I see that they have to hire a
security guard to protect my car in the
parking garage am I gonna want to live
there I'm not sure now young families he
talked about maybe wanting to move in we
had somebody from Dawson that said that
they want to move in they have grandkids
and so forth so I I'm not really sure
what the objective is if if are young
people are going to want to live there
our older people going to want to live
there certainly if I'm a grandparent
which I am I don't know that I want to
live around 225 young adults because you
know they want to still have a good time
lastly would we be thinking about this
type of a structure let's just say
hypothetically in a dream world Capital
donated this property would we be
sitting here
today thinking about this type of
structure thank you thanks
sir all right there's three gentlemen in
a row back there in the back row sir you
stood up you as a result of your
standing up I choose
you you were sworn in to as I recall yes
sir and please can I have your name and
residence address yes sir uh my name is
Dr Alejandra Diaz I'm from 281 South
Park View 281 South Park View thank you
thank you sir and thank you to allowing
me to have the FL um one of the there
has to be a building that's the tallest
building in the city there got to be
tall us true of every city yes correct
so why not build the LEC tower on Main
Street we don't because we have rules um
we have rules and regulations and this
is what this committee does and these
rules are clear they're concise they're
unequivocal they're based on facts and
they're based on reason and they apply
equally to all of us and that's the
great thing about our society we are all
equal under the law and everything
applies equally to us and I and that's
and that's what we're based on okay so
I'm not opposed to development as long
as a contractor follows the same rules
that we all
follow um so just have them follow
what's already there don't variate we
have rules we have great rules follow
what's already there that's all I'm
asking and I want I I applaud this
someone's coming in here this this lot
is a generational opportunity let's get
it right so as long as we get it right
within the guard rails of the rules that
we have right now all for it let's do it
the right way and um what I'm seeing now
with the variances and so on it does not
seem that it follows the Same Spirit of
what is already
existing the reasons for opposition are
many um uh the other speakers have been
much more eloquent than I could ever be
so I'm going to seed my points to them
out of respect for WIS time um it goes
to say without saying these variances
are far from trivial and will have a
lasting impact on the character of the
city I do have uh three questions I hope
that they can be answered by folks that
have a more knowledge than I do number
one the parking will be founded uh
funded by Tiff so when we take the
number of parking spots that will be
used by the residents of the new
building and by the the the workers and
so on how many will be be actually left
for residence use so if someone could
provide us with that number that'd be
great um the second question is could
someone comment to what is the current
density code is there a code for density
um and and then part two would be what
would be the current density uh number I
mean with how many how many units per
acre will this be I apologize I didn't
uh say appropriately number three and I
was actually shocked when I heard this
we're going to limit the number of
households with children
so and again I don't want our say to get
sued but we're going to limit we're
going to dictate Reproductive Rights
guys come on um I think that needs to go
um and having said that I'd like to
seeed the floor and thank the committee
for allowing me to speak in front of you
have a good evening sir thank you very
much let me um suggest to you though
that I want you to know that every case
we hear is somebody asking to do
something outside of the rules so that's
not nothing that's not anything new for
us that we have to deal with that every
single night but I appreciate your
comments very much and and the eloquence
of your presentation copy that Julie
noted despite your
humility all
right on this side do I have anybody
else and I don't know there might be
some opponents over here you opponent or
proponent opponent
please I can't tell who the opponents
and the proponents are by your physical
appearance you know it's hard hard for
me to tell you were sworn in earlier
though I believe sworn in earlier please
tell us your name and your res John I
live at 500 South Park View Avenue Okay
the reason you're too tall you're too
tall Too Tall how's that that's a lot
better John Rous at 500 South Park View
Avenue the reason I wanted to speak now
is because I wanted to follow up what my
uh uh friend Steve here says about okay
the driveway yes is it Karen is it
possible that you could put the page is
a site plan on there that shows the
U yeah that one and zoom in on the
Alexander you're talking about north of
the Alexander now people that's right so
you see that you see the they they've
labeled it as a cross access road or
something like that right um first of
all everything the speaker said before
me instead of saying that again yes got
it uh Steve was talking about the people
people who live on the North side the 22
I'm an owner of one of the detached
garages that are on the north side of
that driveway the the driveway pavement
goes right up to the doors on that uh
Garage on that detached garage so in
order to get out of my detached garage
uh when I back out uh I uh normally what
I done when the students were uh in
Residence there was to put on my
emergency flashers and back up uh enough
so that the my car was visible and they
were they were pretty respective of that
and I could back out safely but when I
do back out of my garage I have to back
back out into the other lane so I have
to use both
lanes uh once I can get back out a
little bit I can see the entry from
Parkview so it's really not been a
serious problem when when more students
that weren't residents started using
that lot it still didn't get full it got
crowded on some days but it got full but
things changed dramatically with these
younger kids instead of these families
they started speeding out of the
driveway and that's when we put in the
speed bumps that really didn't help very
much because people with stiff
suspensions would slow down but people
who drove Co and sedans would ignore
them and just bump bump bump right over
the top of them so when they were here I
had to start placing a traffic cone out
into the uh driveway I've seen it yeah
you seen it yeah I had to put a draic
cone there so that I can back out you
know then move my car out of the way
move the put the cone back in the garage
and then leave away so with that much
more traffic in this easement
driveway uh it's going to be it's going
to create a uh you know even more
dangerous situation of using those
garages uh and uh we have the situation
of walking from The Pedestrian door on
the on the North uh
West uh or Northwest yeah
Northwest The Pedestrian door toh walk
over to those uh garages garages we and
we only we can only walk in the driveway
because there's no room for a sidewalk
or anything else so we have to walk in
the driveway to get to our garages
whether we're going there to get
something stored there or whether we're
going to get to or from our
automobile the other thing is the guest
parking also has to use that driveway as
a pedestrian
way
so the increase the increase in the in
the traffic that uh we expect is going
to you know cost some real concern with
uh you know re being able to use my
driveway safely okay and I also will uh
appeal this decision to approve this so
thank you very much you don't know which
way we're gonna vote no oh are you gonna
you gonna give me a
hint all right Sir with the with your
hand up
please you're what yeah I don't think it
matters at this stage
no you were sworn into to I believe need
oh you were not okay thank you for being
honest with me do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you give this evening
be the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth I do and your name and
Resident address please I'm Mike in and
I live at 226 South Columbia
Avenue South colia you know I have to
confess I have to confess I uh I haven't
lived in Bexley as long as Mr Cass okay
fair enough my biggest regret is that I
never got to sample the Delicacies of
the
feed um that the uh I did however come
to Bexley or to the old Academy on the
Oak Street bus back in the 60s get to go
White's castle for some sliders after a
football game I uh uh you know it's been
my good fortune to know several of the
developers in town I don't know Mr
casswell uh I'm not sure we've ever met
um but you know I I was very good
friends with Dick solv and I was always
taken by dick he was a great guy yeah
and he said you know there's there's
three parts to life Mike there's
learning earning and serving and dick
truly lived up to that and walked the
walk and his name is on a cancer
hospital as most of the people in here
know and and I know Mr Cass to be
similarly generous I see his name his
wife's name uh his company's name on so
many of our nonprofit organizations in
town and um I know him to be that way
and I know him to love Bexley and to be
a part of Bexley which makes this even
harder for me to understand and I think
for the opponents of this to understand
uh the mayor's office clearly is
strongly advocating for this development
along with Mr Cass and most of us here
tonight feel like they're trying to
shove a watermelon into a wooden
shoe the property just is not big enough
to accommodate this and and those of us
here are concerned about the trash the
noise you know crime everything else
that goes along with a project of this
nature we're not anti-development
everybody has stated that we think
there's a good use to this when I came
to this when I saw this property was
available and I know the generosity of
this community I really thought we might
have some of the benefactors step
forward and talk about an art gallery a
Symphony Hall even a modern Rec Center
instead we're having this mon not a
monstrosity the Review Committee has
done a good job I have to say
architectural revie has worked to revise
it try to improve and do the best they
could with it but I think what this is
going to put on the community is not
fair to the current residence okay and I
think it's just too much in a small
space I know to make it
economically beneficial you have to
build a certain size but this lot just
does not allow for it and I think we're
really doing a disservice to the city
and I think if somebody in the mayor's
office would think differently and think
about hitting the benefactors in this
city for doing something really
remarkable marable on that site like an
art gallery or a Symphony Hall we'd be a
lot better City for it all right thank
you very much I do want to state that
the mayor what his position is I assume
you have a feeling for what it is but he
hasn't lobbied any of us that I'm aware
of one way or the other and put
zero uh pressure or or anything like
that on us I just want you to know that
was I understand your comment I know he
was on TV the other night and so other
people have told me what what he said
then but uh he hasn't influenced us so I
just want to make that clear all right
let me see now sir you've been waiting
patiently all night long right
there everybody has been but that's true
I have been torn in thank you sir my
name is Jay Crane and uh like many
others here tonight I'm a lifelong
member of the community of Bexley uh and
my wife and I bought early on in the uh
Alexander
condominium where
we yeah he said he lives in the
Alexander I'm
sorry like other property owners in the
neighborhood I'm concerned about the
impact the proposed project will have on
property values the Trinity apartment
property is adjacent to residential
neighborhood or single family homes on
brighten Road between South Drexel and
South Parkview Columbia place and on
South Park View from brighten to East
Maine and the Alexander con name on
South Park View the Franklin County
auditors 2023 reappraisal places a total
value of just short of 45 and5 million
dollar on these owner occupied
residences the res
residences residents in the audience
have a personal financial stake in your
decision the value of the Alexander
alone is just shy of $21
million I Look to this board to preserve
the value of my substantial investment
in my home as required by the Bexley
codified
ordinances other
residences of the residents of the
Alexander have explained how they are
detri M Ally impacted while impacts may
vary from unit to unit in a condominium
we jointly own the building and the
common areas the value of my unit will
be damaged if the value of the Alexander
is damaged by this project as it most
certainly will be if the application is
approved I will appeal the board's
decision thank you thank you
sir also under three minutes I want
to award you for
that um I know there's some other hands
out here too so please uh
ma'am under minutes also have you been
sworn in yes okay thank you very much
can I have your name and residence
address I'm Jennifer H I live at 2265
brighten okay and I'm debating whether
my staying here until 10:30 tonight sets
me as an example of a good mother or a
bad some of you may have heard my
children
yes who are here but I couldn't leave
them home alone and I could find a
babysitter so here they are they're
doing quite nicely I want you to know I
stepped out there and talked to them for
a few minutes I didn't know they were
your children but they're very love
lovely children know we look alike with
our similar hair colors your your
daughter and my son have been in class
together for years and you're a great
mother thank you thank you so I've
attended a number of these meetings over
the last now three or four months to
discuss the proposed Trinity redevelop
velopment project and I've spoken at
four or five each time attempting to
speak to the board each board primarily
to the purview of your board but we have
been reminded that your board
essentially holds all the cards so
tonight I'd like to speak in slightly
broader Strokes the Redevelopment of
this 2.7 acres oh which by the way
there's 90 parking spaces I went out and
counted um right now there's 90 parking
spaces there will be 300 the
Redevelopment of this 2 7 Acres as is an
exceptional opportunity for Bexley
however this is neither an exceptional
project nor an exceptional building the
negative impacts of neighbors have been
discussed traffic density noise mess and
duration of a large construction
project but thus far we have not had
much discussion as to the negative
environmental impact I do appreciate the
suggestions offered by our green Vex
leite this
evening this is an opportunity for
Bexley to Champion a truly Innovative
environmentally forward project not one
that starts with tearing down five dozen
trees the most recent requested variance
for six stories this addition of another
story was made because of
cutouts to add Dimension but somehow
we've managed to add 13 units this feels
like a slight of hand this lack of
transparency
brings me great doubt it makes me
question
trust there is not enough information
and what we don't know can't hurt us can
can hurt us if you permit the variable
variances and Greenlight this project
you are opening us up to a potential
Fiasco thank you thank you very much
also under three
minutes all right uh
sir thank you you were also sworn in yes
um Steve 2462 Carolina Avenue name again
I'm sorry Steve Calhoun thank you Steve
sorry about that um so I am a 34-year uh
retail design and architect uh expert so
I speak from that point of view I only
mention that because of what I'm talking
about from a massing standpoint this
project is way too large for this site
and there's a few ways that you can
actually see that visually I I use
renderings as a tool for a living so I
know that sometimes what you see on a
picture sir you got to direct your
comments us sorry I apologize that's all
right um this is not a debate this is a
you know you're trying to illuminate us
who are going to vote many times what
you see in a rendering is not what it's
going to feel like when you stand out
there on the sidewalk there are a few
ways to to determine what that will feel
like one is a balloon study you can put
a balloon moon on all four points of
this building run it up as tall as it
will be and run pendants across it that
way you can stand on the sidewalk and
across the street and see exactly what
the ridge of that six-story building
will look like in
space another way is also placing your I
know this exists as a 3D model based on
what I've seen here they can place the
cameras in positions such as the one
woman's balcony on the fourth wherever
she lives and point it right towards the
fifth Story of this building and you'll
be able to see exactly what she will see
if I was Mr Cass I would be concerned
about that because if there's a lot of
push back to my development I want to
understand why and I want to try to
alleviate that and be the good neighbor
that I believe he is so I just mentioned
that as a few things that you can ask
him to consider so that you can
visualize it for yourselves and see
whether you agree with it or not thank
you thank you very much thanks for your
patience
all
right who else had their hand up
[Laughter]
ma'am okay if you could pull up the
slide that show oh I'm sorry Nancy
marzella I live thank
you it's late uh and live at the
Alexander and you were sworn in earlier
I was sworn in and I have lived in
Bexley for 30 years okay but there's a
draw there's one of the slides that
shows the um West End of the building
proposed building and the east side of
the Alexander it really tells a story of
a lot of the questions that we
have it's a no that's north and east
what it shows is what they're calling
the alley it's the new road it that's it
that's it that's it yeah well okay we
had another anyhow there is another
one yeah that's kind of tells it too but
what it is I live on the fourth floor
what I am told when we pulled this up at
the tree commission the other day
that I will be looking into and it's not
all about me but many people are going
to be looking directly in to a blank
wall on the that's facing uh West and it
has nothing decorative but what it also
shows that it's nearly impossible to
plant any kind of tree or because
they're so shady even the shade studies
are worthless I will say that because I
was a victim of one of those shade
studies in another house I lived in but
it
is it's like reach Out and Touch
somebody just shows it what it shows is
we're going to be looking at a gray wall
there's nothing on it it's just a gray
okay so I'm I'm losing you on that a
little bit so help me with this yes
you're saying to look to the north no
look to the east me looking to the east
okay so I'm looking my b my building is
looking East and I'm looking at the West
End of the proposed
building and you what you can see
North that's
right yeah
yeah East so what it is is that there is
right off of my balcony and all the
other balconies here we're looking at
this
road that some people are calling an
alley and and when people say that
they're going to plant plants there
ain't no way it's not going to happen
there's not enough dirt there's not
enough space and there also all night
long
anybody ambulances whatever needs to
come in to the development is going to
go right past our Windows right past our
balconies and it's going to be a total
annoyance and dirty and the other thing
where as a single woman I will say that
having that parking garage you know not
15 feet from my porch is really kind of
scary because it's open
247 and I just think that that is just a
bad placement for parking
garages not that anybody cares just my
thank you very much thank you yes thank
you for your comments and thanks for
your patience
too all
right other hands
sir I'll be brief thank you my name is
Mark Landon I live at 500 South Park viw
Avenue okay thank you and um you were
sworn in I know earlier much of what I
planned to say has been covered but I
want to emphasize a few things and I
think I'm speaking for a number of my um
other residents in the
Alexander and the question was raised
well what do we propose by somebody this
remember it's pretty simple really it's
it is the elephant once again and it is
the advice to you to get it
right in terms of what to be done on
this space it is about the scope and
size of the project the gestion it
creates the traffic it creates the
unsafe
passageway from Parkview
Avenue we you asked one of the other
people who was at the podium earlier
about how many spaces are now in that
outdoor lot well there may be 90 spaces
but I've lived there six years and
there's rarely been more than 30 or 40
cars parked there at a time so we're
going to be going
from 30 or 40 cars to a garage of
several
hundred and I would submit to you that
the with all due respect to the traffic
planner who probably knows a lot more
about traffic planning than I ever will
but there are a lot of assumptions that
go into what was presented this evening
about access to and from the proposed
development that namely all three of
those accesses would be equally used I
don't think that's the case I think
people will quickly find that back way
on Park Avenue and that little side
street or whatever you want to call it
there it's really nothing more than an
Alleyway will become a
two-way road and in fact a little bit of
a highway I think it'll be totally
unsafe uh with the density that's being
proposed in the current project and for
that reason among others stated I'm
opposed to the project as
submitted I think this is a project
that's way too large for the
space as you heard so well from the
architect who preceded me and if the
application is improve is approved I
intend to appeal the board's decision
thank you very much thank you very
much
ma'am were you sworn in
earlier I did okay please could I have
your name and residence
address my name is Angela Yak I live at
2240 Brighton Road that is between uh
Drexel and Columbia okay thank you I
moved here in
2007 and I've been a resident for almost
17 years Miss Hansen quoted me
incorrectly on the news story this week
mmhm I believe as others that the
applicant has not worked in good faith
with the neighbors as well as the
architecture Review
Board in fact in yesterday's meeting it
was brought up indicating that they were
giving the variance approval for the
sixth floor under the condition of
reducing the west and North Side they
chipped away at that but they ended up
adding units they're not working as a
good partnership ship I also disagree
that this has not been a transparent
process the first time I heard about
this project was in February via an
article on the Columbus Business Journal
it was not till August that I received
notice in regards to this project so
from February to August there was no
communication of the scope of the
project and the
development it was indicated that we
should be grateful for a parking garage
similar to Something in the short North
this is not the city of
Columbus this is beex
this building is also being built
similar building in Upper Arlington it's
not in Old Arlington it's in the
Kingsdale shopping
center you talk about tree removal as
part of the process of development are
there other cities in this Franklin
County or surrounding area that have a
city AR burum it's not okay to be
tearing down mature trees it is not a
one toone equation I thought we were
green
Bexley there is not a neighbor
neighborhood compatibility with this
project it is a deterrent to the
neighbors and the community of West
Bexley and overall the Bexley Community
the density size the traffic the safety
the parking we're essentially dropping a
building down from the sky that is going
to host maybe up to 500 people we do
have diverse housing we have Apartments
we have condos we have single family
homes we have homes that are a thousand
square feet to multi th000 square feet
we talked about the parking I don't
understand how you get a 30% off credit
which is 125 spots and now they are
eight spots
over right now the brighten uh parking
is that you can only park on the North
side I'm sorry you can only park on the
souths side on weekends or after 6 PM
the traffic study which has been brought
up several times at all these meetings
is that it was done in May it was also
not included uh um surveying of Brien or
Colombia we talked about now that the
traffic study is giving us a grade D and
that we want to have traffic and will
that traffic will allow people to find
other ways to their destination I want
to get to my house I want to get to my
house I want to turn left on Park View I
want to turn right on
brighten this is called the um you know
path of lease resistance people already
are cutting through brighten it's only
going to increase we've talked about
Colombia and the lack of um stop signs
there also this study was done in May
what was going on in May the drexal
project the islands the bump outs this
traffic study is not current is not
applicable to this project right now it
needs to be updated the same um
developer that did Giant Eagle did the
same thing they did not include brighten
in the in their traffic study they have
not learned their
lesson how are we going to mandate 15
students are coming from this apartment
complex the reason why that number has
come up about is because that was the
Tiff with the school board any more
students they have to pay for that I'm
not sure if that's the the city that's
paying for it or the developer but
that's where that magic number came from
that is a form of discrimination St
Charles was here for a four feet
variance we're talking about three
floors to five floors to now six floors
I mean I I just I just don't understand
it um we can talk about yesterday's
meeting that that was a provisional
meeting an emergency meeting then less
24 hours to get to Bap you guys didn't
even have the courtesy to like you were
not given the courtesy to even have
enough notice to read notes that's just
very disrespectful to the process I also
don't understand miss Karen and Mr Jason
and Miss Katherine as far as what your
role is on this committee as um
consultants for the city they're not on
this committee okay so they're just here
to guide you as consultants they're not
even here to guide us they're here to
just give us facts okay because there's
some confusion on that okay um I'm
requesting that there's a site visit
during daylight hours where the project
can be walked through thoroughly um
there's just too many variables too many
questions right now to approve this this
is also the first time anyone from
Capitol has attended any of these
meetings this is supposed to be about
the the neighbors and I feel like we're
bending over for for Capital this is
this is exactly what Begley does not
need the proposal will change Begley
forever and I will give this project a
quote unquote appr problem until it is
approved thank you for your time thank
you
all right next
hand I don't see any more hands how
about that all right um do
members M do the applicants want to uh
come forward and provide some any
rebuttal you wish to
provide now there were so many people
speaking I'm not sure I'm going to
remember no all the incorrect facts I'll
help you thank you you I don't know if
they're incorrect or not but I'll help
you remember comments that were made
start with Karen if you leave that
picture up um I can't tell you the exact
Dimension um but I think that the
Alexander is several inches higher than
the building we're building the
four-story apartments um these are four
stories of apartments at the back over a
two-level garage the lower level of the
garage is underground the upper level of
the garage is at the same level is the
parking that's always been there okay
okay so if you look at that that
rendering um and look at the scale that
we also gave as part of our overall
presentation the height of those are the
same the six story that's being asked
for here okay has been set back now if
we can go to the front of the um
building now also also please um go back
one more Karen I'm sorry um also the
Alexander is the building that sits at
the back of this mhm um it's nowhere
near the six-story piece it's setback
recessed from uh Main Street so um the
the fact is the two buildings are the
same size um when when uh Miss Marcel
mentioned that she's 15 feet from the
garage she's 47 feet from the garage not
that that's right or wrong that's just
the measurement between the two um and
there is 15 feet from the building uh to
what they're referring to as alley which
is a two-way street okay um when
everybody's talking about where the
parking is going here's things that are
not uh uh registering we have closed
closed an entrance from the Bexley
Square where we are right now cannot go
to the parking lot that is now open and
that used to be where Capital had their
students up to 90 of them at some time
somebody spoke that they'd been here for
six years I think cap stopped parking
there about two and a half years ago but
that lot used to be filled um and the
only way that people left that lot the
only way was this easement okay now what
we're now doing is adding a two-way
entry onto Main Street directly two way
in two one way in one way out and two
entrances from the Beckley
lot now we were asked by the the the
Neighbors on Brien and close Columbia to
close that
uh traffic entrance that's been there
forever okay so we are doing that um the
the Alexander doesn't care that we're
closing that they prefer us to close the
Alexander one and open bride you know
then the people and folks said that to
thank you okay um the the alley way
that's referred to the two-way road to
to Main Street is going very close to
people's houses I would mention to you I
live on the second floor at the gramar
SE I am 15 feet away from Main Street
not from a little street that might
carry 80 cars a day coming and going I'm
on Main Street that's carrying 4,000 I'm
on the second floor 15 feet away hearing
it coming and going and I love it okay
now I've heard nothing but complaints
from the people at the Alexander about
rumy having their trucks coming and
going Mr gross told me that many times
coming through there several times a
week picking up beex trash which is on
the capital lot I don't know if any of
you knew that or not on the capital lot
that is stopping okay so they're not
going there anymore uh the Bexley square
and City Hall's trash will be on the
city hall side okay if you contract with
rumy that's up to you we are Contracting
for an independent small trucks that
will come all of our trash will be
within our garage separate recycle from
trash and it'll be picked up by our
people coming only in from Main Street
period okay all things we've arranged
all right at an earlier meeting I had
with Mr Rous in the parking lot I me
when he mentioned cars coming back and
forth through there and it's dangerous
getting in and out um that then I you
know I said to and Aunt that there'll be
uh more traffic so there'll be
maintenance I said we will be happy to
participate in the maintenance of that
Alleyway that is the easement for us so
you know yet all we hear that you hear
is we haven't been Cooperative neighbor
Neighbors here you know and trying to
figure out you know what's the best way
to handle all of these things the
biggest thing to remember financially
here um the young man was 31 years old
graduated from Bexley high school went
to Harvard played soccer there uh Ross
fredman mentioned what it costs today
and a lady that spoke I don't remember
her name that's been a resident what it
costs today to buy a house in Bexley
anybody in the real estate business or
understanding or reading anything
financially will tell you that
nationally today rentals are way way up
and are going to continue to be up not
just because of the cost of housing as
relates to the mortgage but the
maintenance the home
insurance you know obviously the
mortgage payments are seven instead of
three that's not very pleasant okay but
you know the the the cost of owning a
home is pig so one of the examples we
give here is that if you own a home
where you're paying your mortgage
payment of a couple thousand a month and
maintenance of a th a month and
insurance whatever you can rent an
apartment for 2500 a month have a brand
new fridge a brand new fridge or not pay
any maintenance and move in and you can
move out when your year's over and go
buy a house then or you know do whatever
you want to do but you're staying in
Bexley or coming here to live in Bexley
because you can afford it and you can
rent there while you're making up your
mind and if you're 31 and if your wife
gets pregnant you're not a schoolage
child and our deal with the schools is
very very simple they gave us an
unbelievably good deal on the Tiff
because they get zero taxes from this
site right now and the school district
will end up starting with $200,000 a
year between the three4 percent income
tax and the real estate taxes which will
then go up and up and up and continue to
for that we said to them if we have more
than 15 students here
we will pay the tuition for those
students that was the deal that was made
with that understanding what the law is
okay so you know I don't know what's
wrong with that and but I can tell you
we've done so many of these apartments
in communities like this good Apartments
upscale you don't have people with kids
first of all there there is
148 one-bedroom ones and then the rest
of the 230 which would be 80 some are uh
two bedrooms the two bedrooms are the
ones that someone will be downsizing
particularly on that sixth floor with
outside pad
goes sorry looking over Main Street yeah
okay let me ask you what what are the
approximate I know square footages of
the one and two bedrooms just so I get
some feel for how big these units are
the two bedrooms are likely to be 1,200
feet give
take nice enough size that that you know
you're not crowded with good size CL
closets 9-t ceilings you know built very
nicely with first class appliances and
first class finishes the building has an
unbelievable exercise facility indoor
and outdoor that's o on the third floor
above what would be the uh restaurant
and the medical use um it then goes out
over a patio you can take your your your
know cycle and take it out there your or
you know roll it out there and be
outside or inside um and it has also all
all the
meeting spaces within it and televisions
and so forth for events um that that
will be a very very uh nice presentation
but still affordable at today's rates
and and the one bedrooms approximately
what size maybe eight to
nine 720 to 850 thank you and and that's
the other thing lots of different sizes
in all of them lots of different some
have balconies some don't you know some
are facing north some are facing Main
Street and and you know the thing is
it's a big building there is no question
about it it is a big building you know
and could could I have the first thing
that was ever up here today showing kind
of the
aerial so let me ask you this question
which is going to dive right into what
you're going to say here what you're
addressing here could you do this with
150 Apartments as opposed to
230 what is the feasibility
of this on a smaller scale so that I can
get this guy's watermelon into his shoe
you know I mean just to use his analogy
right is this a
feasible Enterprise at 150 units not not
in the slightest it's barely a feasible
Enterprise at 230 okay typically our our
units you know are we like to be at 250
to 360 um where you can do a really nice
exercise facility a really nice uh party
rooms and and and TV parlors and
whatever um and and you can't we can't
do that here um again Capital University
is very important to the city of Bexley
and Bexley is very important to to
Capital um they're selling this piece of
land for seven and a half million
dollars okay we weren't even the highest
bidder we were just the bidder they
selected okay um today the highest and
best use for land if someone would have
told me this about 25 years ago I'd have
had them probated okay the highest and
best use for land today other than a one
and a half acre parcel for a Chick-fil-A
you know or a sheets the highest and
best use today is dense multif family
period okay um because people are paying
rent and you can put a lot of people
into a place somebody came in the lady
one lady said you can go vertical you
can go vertical but you know other than
the that recess sixth floor you see
right there which you will not see from
the Alexander and you know here's the
other thing the units on the east side
of the Alexander they're part of the
Alexander I don't know if there's eight
of them six of them I have no idea
that's all the west side of the
Alexander the north side of the aren't
gonna see these units yet everybody's
here because this is too big and we're
gonna drive on the easement I didn't get
this easement I don't know anything
about this easement other than it's an
easement that Jim gross was very clear
with me that that easement is does not
provide and we agreed with that does not
provide for traffic coming through from
the grocery store uh or or from Drexel
Avenue so we've stopped it now the only
way it will be open is you know somebody
was nice and said the fire department
will take down the ballards they don't
take down ballers they run over them but
you know that you know but but that's
the only way you get through that also
there's a whole green area back there
that is provided for
dogs you know um so I'm not sure what
more we can do um someone else mentioned
that this will be a white elephant
because no one's going to rent this
place you know I I'll tell you they're G
to rent this because it's Beckley and
Main Street is a great location whether
you're my age or Ross fredman's age I I
I love it I sold the house on North Park
viw moved right into a condominium
because a you know I got three other
friends that wanted to build the
building my Linda wanted to own a
bookstore and we did it among much
yelling and screaming just like this so
two in the morning city council can stay
later than you guys um you know and and
uh um what about or you were gonna make
a point that I interrupt you on that's
not the I wanted that one that's kind of
the aerial of the that shows
the right there yeah right yeah go back
that whole one okay so take a look at
the land coverage of of the Park View
arms look look
that if you if if you put that thing
together that's as big as this building
you know and that was built I moved in
to the far north unit at the entrance
okay and about 550 feet in
1965 okay um now if you look at the the
Gateway and the Alexander and the
parking and you cram all those together
they tore down every tree that was there
and left one tree because you didn't
have a tree commission you know we're
replanting as many as we can and you
know I'm not happy about cutting the
trees down but there's no Project
without it because they're all through
the project but we're planting more than
we're cutting down we're Landscaping
every look at what the we're doing right
across the morass is that whole green
triangle right there that's a Park area
and then Park area all the way back with
planting on on the east side of the
building and as many plantings as we can
possibly do to separate us from the
Alexander on the other side of the
building and I don't know what those
trees are I mean I don't know if we can
put arbores in there that'll grow up
tall we'll do whatever is necessary to
be a good citizen and make it look good
including paying our share of the
maintenance for the people coming out
but what I don't understand is is Dr
Landon said there'll be everybody will
take that shortcut the Park View who
would want to take the shortcut the park
View and you can get right out on Main
Street two different ways I I I just
don't get it you know and and it it's
just very very simple to me this a big
project it's big dollars you know
someone said I told them that I had to
do this because this is how much profit
I had to make I've no idea how much
profit I'm going to make I don't know
what my interest rate's going to be I
don't know exactly what the building's
going to cost all I know is our
performer right now says this is $77
million being built in the heart of this
city okay and it's going to house Young
people it's going to house older people
it's going to House people that have
grown into the new urbanism that's what
it's going to do put people on the
sidewalk on the streets make Capitol
University more attractive than it's
ever been for families coming with their
kids that might want to matriculate
there it'll be more exciting just more I
I can tell you you can see see the
people the they go to the grocery store
these students that have the fridges in
their room they're at the grocery store
constantly you know Main Street is so
important to the city of Bexley and what
really bothers me here I was so glad
that some people that knew me and many
people spoke here that did not know me
are coming here because the reality is
if you don't live right next to all this
you're going to very much appreciate
what we're bringing to this city the
opportunities for people to stay here
and the opportunities for more people to
come here now can I answer any questions
that any of you
have hold on for a
second board members um I was looking
down through the questions anybody have
any other questions or issues and
then I'm looking to see if I have any
other comments that came
in will you
address truck and construction traffic
and construction issues like dust and
noise and how you're going to mitigate
those things to start with the only
entrances that anyone will have to the
site will be what we dig up to start
with on the new road coming off of Main
Street that that's a given um it's an
interesting construction project because
we have a lot of dirt we actually you
know have to remove on this site we're
getting no breaks here okay I don't mean
from from you all um there's a new uh
fund from the state um that that pays
you uh that gives you money for
Demolition and dirt removal and so forth
but they don't pay you if you start it
before they approve it oh I see we G buy
this piece of land if we do this deal
and if you all approve this and get
started on this so so uh but the good
news is that we'll start with digging
out the the dirt and start putting the
this the uh cement down immediately to
build the underground garage um which
will alleviate a lot of the dirt going
forward after that um so so I mean we'll
keep it to a minimal at that point um
and and we will be very careful I'm I'm
we're the
contractor okay so so this isn't a
developer telling you will he'll talk to
the contractor about it and make them
responsible I will be responsible all
right and we're going to be as
responsible a contractor as we can be on
this site someone mentioned the project
in Upper Arlington at at at kingsale the
bigger project is at Lane Avenue right
the middle of an area just like this and
and uh um that has uh apartments and and
and Office Buildings and 859 car parking
because of the office building it's it's
very big um so I mean there will be
construction here just like when the
Alexander was built there was
construction there and Gateway there was
construction there remember we're
replacing 60 Apartments 61 Apartments
okay the alexanderan Gateway replaced
the 5,000 foot funeral home and tore
down all the trees okay and people
complained and now you have 31 32
families that live there and love it and
I'm sorry if they think we're going to
ruin their lives we're not okay the fact
is Mr gross um bought a place there two
years ago and just sold it for 10% more
than he paid for it for to a couple that
knows this part this project is going to
maybe go next to him so the fact that Mr
Crane thinks his values are going to go
like this they're not
okay now you know if I take one question
I gotta take a 100
questions okay a request for what
[Music]
now the
alley
by
S
[Music]
just yeah it's that big and we can do
that we can do that but you came up and
said it was 15 feet from your porch and
it's 47
feet no but you said the building you're
going to look and then you mentioned a
gray wall just a gray wall okay now okay
now now now see this is why there can't
be any questions okay sorry no more
questions okay this is not a debate
I'm the only one in charge nobody else
is we can stake the build all right
up I've got one thing you
know I like the development I think it's
good for Beckley but the thing I have
with I don't I mean there's been a lot
of testimony here but I haven't seen any
justification for why it's why the sixth
floor and that's kind of what the focus
of tonight is is whether to approve the
sixth floor I mean and based on the you
know the code of
Bexley there has to be a need and and a
just reason why there's going to be the
six floor and I don't think my personal
opinion is I don't think you've proved
it or anybody your representatives have
prove that so I guess what I would ask
you is I mean I'm I'm letting you plead
your case what what is the reason for
the sixth floor and why does it we have
to have it so when we started the
project um the the uh um we were very
clear we had a big problem when we did
the gramarcy that's a forever problem in
our lives for the four families that are
there for whatever reason they wouldn't
let us run the elevator to our uh uh
roof deck it's a sensational roof deck
you remember we were there till two in
the morning and wouldn't let us do it
okay um and you had a very simple height
restriction and what particularly
bothered me about it was I built the
Alexander and Gateway for Plaza
Properties and I brought the plan and
they were 67 feet high and we were 60
okay and the Elevator Shaft would have
gone up eight feet okay and no one would
have ever seen it all right but because
the all the people that lived on shwood
behind us said we were blocking their
sunlight forever all right and so
Council caved and that was it and it was
council at that time not Bap okay so um
when this started and and I will tell
you that the city was very kind to
us as we dealt with Capital University
and kind of said to Capital hey we just
as soon do business with Continental
than anybody if you can get them to do
this and death I'm just telling you the
truth okay and so um I said Ben we're
gonna have a problem here because we
need some Heights and Kathy and Ben and
Jay said we no longer have a set height
restriction for the city it's now every
deal stands on its own now my wrong and
what I said there Ken is it something
like that I don't think they said that
what
they we said that we said that like I'll
tell exactly what we said is that they
asked us if you had experienced doing
projects in the city we said yes and we
said you've had successful projects and
we have never said an indication about
what height is we told what the code is
the mayor did a briefing about it so
we've never W what code the code is
three stories special permit to five
variance over five yeah well that's what
I'm saying though but and but before
that turn that back eight years ago it
was there's always a variance option so
it was 60 feet yeah so so I guess the oh
I see what you're saying is there's a
numerical height that's all I said true
a numerical height and I was told there
was now a special and a and a VAR that's
accurate that's accur so what happened
is as the building was being fine-tuned
largely by um ARB and and our Architects
working hand inand for 100 hours for
sure okay um certain things happened to
the building so that the building didn't
look like a Home Depot that I never
frankly thought it looked like a Home
Depot but that's now become what this
building's called um and and so uh um
that's better than Lowe's because at
least it has the word home in it right
so so uh um you've got the the building
started having edges and things cut out
of it and with everything that was cut
out the cost went up and the number of
units went down okay okay
so Bill hire suggested that if you
really are appealing to older residents
that really want a special place to live
when they sell their house maybe having
that sixth floor that you see up there
with with patios coming out over it like
pen houses you know would be your your
highest end units looking out over Main
Street um yet it's not going to be
sticking out in front and it's still by
the way it's only um four floors of
apartments right there it just happens
to be over two floors of of uh things so
you know that that that's the answer so
you know if you're asking me should I go
back and look at the numbers and remove
those units yes Karen yeah let me chime
in on this because this was a request of
ARB to look at a sixth floor very
specifically in the front with the
setback um with which is a very typical
um even sometimes code requirement for
urban environments because we don't want
a sixth floor hovering over but we do
want to give an opportunity to break
down the mass on the rest of the
building so when we had a massive
building so for first of all let me
clarify because the question was asked
what my role is I'm the design
consultant for the city of Bexley I
don't help them design I don't help any
applicant design a building from scratch
I only help improve what is in front of
us and this is what's in front of us
if you want to say no to the size of the
building then say no to the size of the
building but given what has has been
applied for I work with the applicants
to improve that design in my opinion
excuse me
I
yes
is she's explaining what happened
procedurally I think it's the way I
understand what you were getting at here
how did we get to where we are yeah okay
but you're not I'm not advocating one
position or another I'm just I I'm just
based on simple design standards and
resp Industry and a response to what
design was presented to us we Rec
recommended we meaning the architecture
review board and my board members
recommended a an investigation into
putting a a an additional story in the
front of the building in order to break
down the massing in the back to be more
sensitive to the residential structures
that are around it now I posted contrary
to what was said I posted the record of
action from last night's meeting and
there's nothing I can do about the time
between yesterday today but I did post
it today at about 2:30 after I made sure
that all the legal council proof Reddit
so it was out there and and I'm happy to
go over it but there are still
conditions that the a the architecture
review board while happy with the
general design still would like to see
the west and the north elevation broken
down further and trade for that and they
also want some more brick on the west
side so that right you're not going to
look at a gray wall that but you know
and my objection is when you say I'm
just looking at a gray wall you saw all
the windows there I mean they're they're
level here here's the thing have a
little bit of
empathy committee here uh for for for
what we're going through we have one
group of people that doesn't want a road
going towards them that's already there
and another group of people that doesn't
want the road going there that's already
there and we're adding a two-way Road
and entrances at two points two points
to the Bexley Square okay we have an ARB
that is trying to break up pieces of the
building and has asked us to put a six
floor that gives see what it does there
on the building it gives it further
definition or what do you call it from a
standpoint you know how it it just makes
it not look like a wall like this so we
have the ARB that thinks that's a good
look and we have border of zoning that
thinks I don't want to give a variance
for six floors and so and and and here
I'm the developer getting whipsaw on all
sides it it's not an easy process and
we're so sorry you're all here all night
okay really I'm sorry I am um but uh um
the the reality is that the there's no
easy answers here you know and and
somebody will say well the easy answer
is the Project's too big you know you
ask the question if the project was
smaller it just doesn't work you you I
can't provide units for for empty
nesters uh at at the older age or the
younger age you know I can't provide the
immunities that are necessary you know
it's not cheap when you put in a a
Cameron Mitchell restaurant so let me
ask a question here of Katherine and
Kathy Rose and Jason sui and and
Karen if the applicant came to us and
said here's a
building forget the sixth floor we'll
build it to five floors you give us a
consider giving us a special permit it's
the same height as the Alexander
at five floors it's even less higher
high than the Alexander at five floors
and oh we won't have this cutout area in
the front which gives the front a little
diversity as opposed to a monolithic
front because this goes more than 20
feet Inward and they're not allowed to
go more than 20 feet
Inward and oh by the way we'll widen the
building so that we have 80% instead of
7 5% coverage we wouldn't have this
meeting tonight would we they just build
it we' still yeah we'd still have to get
a certificate or
appropriate but a certificate of
appropriateness is another issue oh and
you'd have to get the special permit
You' just be looking at different criter
special permit for the five right but
different criteria than the criteria
that we have tonight yeah yes we'd be
facing the same issues right when we're
issuing we would face the same
criticisms
likely that we've heard all night and I
mean these are not we're not uh you know
deaf or or blind to them but it would be
a different set of criteria that we
would have to apply I'm looking at the
criteria right now for the variance to
see what what exactly it would involve
and need your face ID
here that get that I'm not giving you my
password get that good looking mug in
there so I mean I I think that's an
issue that that you know we're here to
say is this added sixth floor if if
we're going to vote on the sixth floor
issue tonight because it's had time to
get the uh the proper notices
out the question is without the sixth
floor is
this okay or not and with the sixth
floor is it okay or not
and I don't know from our perspective
it's up to you I think the question is
if is it okay with the floor we can't
make the decision whether it's okay on
the fifth floor or not I mean we're
we're here to vote on the variant for
the sixth floor so you know making
judgment calls and making comments as to
what would we do if it was a fifth floor
that's not our role our role is to look
at the variance did he determine that he
needs the variance do we Grant the
variance for six floors that's that's
what we're here for just so clear we
not
all yes correct you're correct because
didn't have he because he's because he
combined the special permit with with
the variance we are now looking actually
for a variance for floor four five and
six just right just to just to be clear
with everybody there's there's not
really a combination it's an either or
just just everybody's clear on that so
because it's six the special permit is
no longer an available option so there
really when you grant a variance for a
building that is six feet tall you're of
course you're granting the St that be
really
weird it's real late but you're
obviously granting them granting them to
have a fourth and fifth floor that's I
mean absurd to consider it wouldn't be
so that's not really you're not granting
you're granting a variance to allow a
six-story building which then means of
course all the floors underneath it are
are part of that so um right right but
it's an all or nothing it's all or
nothing you're 100% right the only point
I wanted to clarify was that it's not a
combination of a special permit and this
there are two totally separate sets of
criteria that you'll use
to evaluate that in the code what
happens though is let's say that you
could pass the six floor variants
tonight um then or or let's say you
won't and you'd only pass Five okay um
then I have to go back to ARB again that
wanted six you know and and then the
neighbors get everything they want
because this will never happen because
I'll be going back and forth the rest of
my life which actually is maybe eight
years well I don't if you went back to
ARB if if if and I have no idea how
everybody's going to vote but if you
went back to ARB and the variance was
denied ARB is not gonna make you go back
to six knowing that it was denied at six
they're going to work with you to make
it five I I mean that's not going to be
or three well something different
they're not gonna yeah I mean they're
gonna work with you it's not gonna be a
back and forth because ARB is not gonna
come back and say no you need to put it
six go back to Bap because they know
what the result will be a rhetorical
question probably for is that um half
the members half the the people here
that came to speak against this all when
they were done said that they were going
to
appeal so I mean I don't know what that
means exactly but if we're worried about
asking for all the variances tonight
because people could appeal it why not
just do it because everybody's going to
appeal It Anyways here's the question
or well there's a difference in that
because one they're appealing us because
we we violated
the law of notification versus they
appealing our decision two different
things got it thank you from from a
procedural perspective I think it'd be
easier to just keep it all together and
if you're gonna have a special meeting
just continue this and do it all at one
time because otherwise you're going to
have multiple appeals on various issues
it's just gonna Splinter the case and
make it worse well yeah we're not going
to have multiple appeals he's going to
have multiple appeals so he needs to
decide whether it's whether it's okay
because we are passed as Mr Crane just
pointed out to me he lifted up his watch
and told me that I must my watch must
have stopped because it's past 11:00 my
watch has not stopped I was trying to
see where we're going here but I do
think that we have our rules we enforced
the three minute rule pretty well
tonight but we do have our 11 o'clock
Rule and I'm already abating that rule
so is the is the 20th the only date
Kathy that's available
18th the 18th might be a possibility but
members
would that's fine I don't
need you do the 18 guys thank you for
all this tonight I'm sorry thank you no
you don't have to be sorry you're you're
here doing what you're supposed to
do
18th not 18
or both for a
week about the week before is that too
early you'll be might as well just leave
it at bed and just be like
18 to get the notices
out both days are okay with me as
well Rick are they good for you too yes
and Matt Mr be what date are you talking
about I'm sorry what date the 18th or
the 20th of the two days they're
bandying about
here Mr Cass are you do you have any
preference as to which
date we'll have be Mr sui cannot be here
on the
20th if that's a deciding
fact okay so he has to request tabling
right yeah
so I okay so we have a motion to table
from the applicant to the to a special
meeting on December the 18th at 6: PM I
would
assume um is it a start from scratch
meeting again no no no no this would be
a special meeting to continue this and
to consider all the applications at once
but they'll be good notice given to
everybody and and now that if somebody
that's not here tonight comes and says I
got this notice they would certainly
have the right to speak I would would
think
so all right uh so moved there there's a
motion from Mr schik to table to toh
table the to the date certain case to
the date certain date December 18th 6
PM
18th I second second thank you thank you
Mr Turner uh please call the role
yes yes
yes
yes I vote Yes the matter is tabled to
December
18th Mr chairman I think we still have a
issue of cannabis tonight we do we have
one more oh yeah we do yeah that's right
is is we we have to look at the
ordinance yep folks we have one other
matter that has to do with cannabis
sales in the city city of Bexley which
doesn't have anything to do with this
project so if you're interested in
cannabis chanels you could stay if
you're not you could go home go to bed
which is what we all probably should be
here's the mayor right here didn't take
him long to get here can you
gavl no thank you thank you st thank you
for your all of you for your patience
and for your comments very very helpful
to
us yeah you're not calm the whole place
down right
pulling up that ordinance uh Karen the
what ordinance ordinance
uh you did you folks I have to ask you
to try to go out into the lobby so we
can finish this last case because Ben
did you email we like you want to go to
bed oops apologize for uh belaboring the
meeting you're showing up to work a
little late yeah
right thank you I think it's quieter now
we can hear you
actually welcome aboard yes I
am are you ever coming back I hope
so they're usually later than this I
heard
this all right mayor on our agenda is
that we're looking at an ordinance
that's being proposed I believe that is
correct Mr chair thank you very
much appreciate the patience of the
board and uh hearing this should be
fast I can once we're ready to go all
right so uh in front of city council's
ordinance 4023 which is a change to the
zoning code amending chapter
1254 commercial and institutional
District regulations and Karen if you
scroll down to the body of the text
section one uh that is the operative
piece of this code proposal uh this is
in response to issue 2's passage that's
all right I think you guys get the idea
so uh it amends our zoning chart um
prohibiting uses associated with the
adult use cannabis operator adult use
cannabis cultivator or adult use
cannabis dispensary in any of our zoning
districts um because is a change to the
zoning code it does require Bap to at
least provide feedback so that Council
can consider that feedback uh prior to
the passage of the proposed ordinance um
it probably won't
be uh voted on until it will not be
voted on until at least the first
meeting in January but that is before I
think your next meeting so I just wanted
to give you guys a chance to weigh on it
so is this just basically saying that we
don't allow anywhere correct yeah and
currently that there is a Prohibition on
um the currently legal medical
dispensaries in Bexley so this expands
it to the new C categorization of
recreational dispensaries so let's look
at this for a second section two is the
growing of cannabis is prohibited on
City owned property the city doesn't own
his house the city owns City Hall yeah
so that's not a zoning piece that's why
I didn't bring it up but that we have
had uh our our community gardens in mind
when we wrote that I see I see okay
gotcha that was rich steam I see we can
otherwise pretty well control what grows
or doesn't grow on our property or that
little area behind your office out there
that isn't going to be a growing area or
yeah the exactly the treeon Cannabis on
the tree Laine yeah but in terms of
zoning this prohibited prohibit it's
it's 11:30 isn't it uh the uh retail
sales or dispensaries retail sales okay
uhhuh or I guess Greenhouse growing in
and cultivating operating they just have
to go up the street to Strawberry Fields
and do their transactional work there
then what happens if you didn't do this
well currently we have kind of a cart
blanch anything not listed is prohibited
and I would ask
cine for a stronger opinion that it says
if anything's not listed is prohibited
but I think somebody could potentially
come in and make an argument that it's
falls under some sort of retail right
yeah so this is we felt it important to
be expedient in making it explicit I
mean are other municipalities doing this
too I'm not I don't know sure so by way
of background when they passed the
medical marijuana
statutes they specifically allowed local
governments expressly as you did to
prohibit U medical marijuana cult cation
dispensaries within their cities within
their townships wherever c um the reason
for that in part was because it's still
federally illegal and so there are a lot
of legal issues and they and a lot of
local governments just prohibited it um
the new the the latest Amendment really
the Constitutional
Amendment really only gives the general
assembly the authority to pass laws
relating to marijuana so we don't know
exactly what those laws are going to be
those statutes haven't been adopted yet
we don't know whether those statutes
will allow the
prohibition although they did the last
time with medical marijuana um there's
some suspicion that this time that it
will come the city is being a little
proactive ahead of the game and saying
we should just do it now because we
don't know what's coming um I think but
the general assembly May specifically
stack statutorily delegate that right as
they did with medical marijuana but th
those laws aren't written yet and if the
legislature does otherwise then we just
you just change it again or or you leave
it until challenged yeah until
challenged and some Court tells you you
can't do it yeah or it tells you you can
or it tells you you can yeah yeah if it
puts your mind at ease we also do not
allow manufacturing currently in the
city of Exley um these are the examples
he always gives me like yes rendering
plants you know that's
question kind little bit
issue
Al um I kind of have a little bit of an
issue with this because I mean 57% of
the state voted for it and we're gonna
make it so that they can't do it at all
so I don't know whether there's a way to
do it where it has I mean it has a
variance or it has a special permit or
something like that where it's basically
a no unless they come here and and try
to prove that they can do it but to just
blanket say no when the majority of the
people in the state said the opposite I
don't I don't know whether I agree with
it I understand the federal law believe
me because I I deal with some guys in in
Nevada that are Casino owners that also
had had a marijuana license and they
gave up their marijuana license because
they didn't want to lose their casinos
they're making more money with the
casino exactly so right um so yeah so I
mean I just just to blankets say no to
it to something that just literally just
got approved by a majority of Ohioans I
I don't I I'm I'm not I'm just telling
you now I'm not comfortable saying yes
to it the way it's written okay so I
don't know how anybody else feels well
and also you have a special meeting
coming up on December
18th I think I would like to uh if I if
I could get a vote from you guys either
recommending or not I mean Council would
consider I do think
being expedient makes sense you mean you
have a vote you have a meeting on
December 18th of city council no if you
have a special meeting oh we have a
special meeting that that would be uh
sufficiently timing wise oh you're okay
sorry I was thinking more about the 30
piece of it I think I mean I'm I'm
comfortable asking you guys' feedback
today I I hear Mr Turner's point I think
that the same applied to medical
marijuana and Council had a pretty clear
position on that and um I certainly
don't want us to be a Pig for what
retail sales looks like in Ohio
regardless of how the electorate passed
the uh the
issue so as I understand the system
there are Growers who have plants in the
ground there are processors who then buy
the plants and process them put them
into salable form and then we have
retailers who have retail outlets it's
brick and mortar and they buy the
product from the processors and sell it
at retail that's what I understand to be
the case is that seem to you to be do
you know Mr chair I'm not an expert on
the potential cannabis uh cultivation
and sales stream I think our our
position is is really a lot more focused
on St storefront and retail sales and as
an example Council recently outlawed the
sales of Vape vaping flavored Vapes in
the city so it's not like you know we
don't have similar positions on on other
items Mr chairman just to answer your
question at least just give the
background it's identical to the three-
tier liquor system that the state has
yeah and and all three have to get
licensed processors get licensed Growers
get licensed retailers get licensed sir
same as the liquor yes
sir
yeah what do you gentlemen think I feel
like I should know this but just because
you brought up liquor where where does
Beckley stand on
that we don't we don't prohibit liquor
sales we do not we do not we also don't
have any liquor we don't have any
retailers but it's not
prohibit although I heard the Giant
Eagle but hard Li's that gets up to
certain
proof prohibiting the sales no this has
nothing to do with use we can't it has
nothing to do with this is about
storefront real estate this is about can
a sales operation open in our under
arizonan code for cannabis
and so the Constitution amendment is
silent as to whether or not a city can
prohibit uh that use um you know it's a
really interesting section of Law and
I'm not an attorney we have lots of you
guys in front of me but I know that it's
still illegal at the federal level um
there are still issues with banking
around the sales so it feels like
interstate commerce it feels like the
sort of thing that wouldn't necessarily
be on par with some for example we allow
um I don't know the right word for
what's allowed on delmare
Drive sex shop the right word that I'm
looking for what's the word I'm looking
for adult
adult sales don't know so we were
advised you know there has been Supreme
Court case law on that there needs to be
a section of our city that allows it
there are lots of uses that are not
allowed in our in our zoning code a lot
of uses
um essentially convenience all First
Amendment issu a lot of those are First
Amendment issues on those shops but
there's not a district right now that
allows for convenience stores I don't
think um where
drive-throughs well yeah there's the
drivethru canneries are also greatly
prohibited you know in many
locations so if I could if I could offer
my comment on this because I know we're
all good I'm in favor of voting on this
tonight um
I think this it's going to be a little
bit of the Wild West coming up we don't
know what the legislature's going to do
and we don't want to be stuck with a
storefront that we really don't want um
so if this is going to have to get
litigated down the road so be it but for
the time being I think this is a um this
is you know an ounce of
caution that's our position I mean we we
certainly will get a much better feel of
what it looks like in Ohio over the
ensuing years and the position of the
city might change but this is a good way
to just get to see what it looks like
first do you have any idea how the vote
went in Bexley precincts I don't know
I'd be curious to know that
but I really don't I it's I was not why
would why would you look that up not
heavily paying attention to issue to I
think that's quite an it's an easily
ascertainable I will get that number for
you all
yeah regardless gentlemen do you have
comments or thoughts because if we're
only giving feedback tonight and we're
going to kind of vote on the 18th is
that what you're suggesting I would pref
for for when you said it's going to be a
circus in Ohio I thought you meant a
circus on the 18th I would kind of
prefer for your sakes all of ours let's
just just call this question and then it
keeps your agenda simpler on the 18th
person okay so you want us to more or
less call the question yeah the question
would just be whether or not you
Katherine I think they would just say
whether or not they're supportive of the
proposed ordinance or make a
recommendation for the prop ordinance we
recommend the city council that they
adopt this or not adopt this right right
okay so why don't we kind of go around
the room and say what you think should
should we would you recommend that city
council adopt this
prohibition I think we we know that Mr
Turner is going to say no he's M CH yes
you say yes they should adopt it yes
they should adopt it and he says no so
we have a no and a yes yes yes they
should adopt it yes yes they should
adopt it makes my vote irrelevant I
still care how you feel Mr
chair no no yes yes yes I will
vote I will
vote
yes also is that a vote or is that a
contrarian vote well it seems like it's
not contrarian it seems like I'm going
with the flow here I had to think about
it a little bit though because I do
understand Mr Turner's yes position
thank you and also I want to thank you
all for your service as always also I
want to say don't believe every story
you hear about me uh in meetings that's
all I got to say
thank