we will call to order the architecture
review board special uh meeting for
November 29th
2023 um can
M we will call to order can you hear me
we will call to order the special
architecture review board meeting for
Bexley for November 29th
2023 and Kathy will call the role Mr
Hall here Mr H here Mr Scott here ster
here Madam Cony
here uh and then we will have approval
of meeting minutes did all board members
get a chance to read the meeting minutes
from last
month if so and you made any suggestions
or changes um we can go ahead and
approve those meeting
minutes so moved
Scott second
Hall call the
rooll M ster yes Mr Scott yes Mr pyro
yes Mr Paul yes mam Tony
yes um so before we get started I just
want to um remind everybody that this is
a special meeting that we are having for
this one
application um that um we have all
agreed to do this on our own time and
that we are asking everyone to be
respectful in this meeting we are asking
you all to speak to others as if you
would want them to speak to you we are
asking you to refrain from repeating
comments um all of your comments from
the past meetings have been recorded and
so noted and so we would ask that you
not come up and repeat some of the same
things that you've said from
before with that we will start with
Karen um just giving us H A little
update on this
project hopefully oh I think mine's
working um it might be a little tedious
but because there's such a large crowd
and because the importance of this um
project I'd like to just kind of read
through my staff report in in total um
this as we all know is a very
significant development and an really
important opportunity for the city of
Bexley it's the goal of the city to be
open and transparent encourage public
comment and
participation um that said there's a
process that the project has gone
through and it's been very deliberately
thought through to produce the best
outcome for all for the purposes of this
specific project that's the physical
completion of the project which includes
site design massing variances vehicular
use and architect cure the project will
be before the architecture review board
the tree and public garden commission
for recommendations to the board of
zoning and planning actually it has been
already um the beap is the ultimate
decision-making body that would be
tomorrow night for the request of the
applicant issues such as tax abatements
tiffs School impacts are discussed and
decided in other City bodies um we don't
that's not a a point of discussion in
this particular in this body or the two
others um they're discussed in bodies
such as city council and the community
Improvement corporation which is known
as the cic and the school board um I
want to go over the background of this
case a little bit so just to give
context to anybody who is here for the
first time um a few elements of the
design will just by their nature be
discussed at all three boards and
commissions these include some
overlapping things that such as how the
project interacts and activates public
spaces how it inter interacts with its
neighbor in properties the Bap
discussion included these issues from a
site planning perspective and the ARB
will continue to discuss these issues
with respect to the architecture and the
design of the
building and I do believe that Monday
was it Monday night that this tree and
public gardens commissions um also put
out some recommendations that is not for
discussion here but I want to make sure
everybody knows that these things are
happening in parallel um just as by by
way of background for a timeline the
first city-led Public Presentation of
this project was at the board of zoning
and planning on August
24th um this was a preliminary review
and a first opportunity for comments and
feedback from the board of zoning and
planning and the public no decisions
were made it was just a preliminary
review Bap discussion and perview
includes site development General masing
zoning code variances adher adherence to
Main Street design guidelines different
than the ARB standards
at the time a special permit um for five
stories was the only request they can
have three stories by right um included
also discussion of vehicular patterns in
parking at this time I think pretty
everyone should be aware but if you're
not you'll hear about it tonight that
they're also going to be asking for a
variance for a six story at the very
front of the building I want to um just
make note and I would like it to be in
the record of decision as well that that
was actually um that came that was not
something that the applicant just came
to us for that was a working a working
back and forth with the board in the
workshop that I'll also talk about that
enabled the building to be massaged and
have a different shape and um soften it
and have setbacks that are more
traditional to an urban environment so
that we can have um lower and notched
out you know kind of cutaways on the
sides where neighbors are and toward the
back and put them put the six story
toward Main Street which is you know the
more
commercial um so I didn't want that to
come as any surprise to anybody that
anyone who's been following it will know
that we've encouraged that six story in
the front of the building all
along um Bap did not discuss the
architecture although inevitably it will
go back to them tomorrow and any future
meetings for final um design review and
approval
sorry okay then the project was also
heard at the tree and public gardens
commissions this week to look at public
spaces in the context of the overall
project and the plantings and the
landscape plan the application tonight
is before the architecture review review
board for the fourth time the
application was tabled at the September
ARB for further design with the offer to
have a workshop in the interim the
application was then tabled by the
applicant and removed from the October
ARB meeting at the applicants request so
they didn't even come and a workshop
that was offered was scheduled this was
incredibly productive for any of the You
Who Came to observe a workshop was
designed to have critique with the board
members and design guide guideline
guidance um public was invited and we
had a pretty good turnout we did not
have public commentary but we sat around
and watched the board give um
interactive critique um when we do that
kind of thing and it's not the first
time it's ever been done it's very
productive and it helps move the project
forward so that's why we um offered that
the application was then heard at the
November meeting with with pretty good
board and um public and and you know
vibrant public feedback the request for
more views materials massing
modifications along with some additional
design concerns um was put forth with an
offer for a special meeting the reason
that we offered the special meeting for
any of you that don't know is that we do
not have board meetings in December so
um we have done that it's it's nothing
that we haven't done for a lot of other
projects I would say every December we
end up having a special meeting for a
project that's kind of um on a timeline
so um that is the
background um the timeline background so
just to give you kind of a summary the
the project will be a mixed use building
that has residential commercial and
retail space um many aspects of the
project have undergone evaluation and
discussion and there have been many um
decision points
I want to I've done this every time but
I'm going to do it again for discussion
at ARB we are here to discuss the
architecture style material choices in
general how the building does address
Main Street Corridor with respect to its
architecture um and to as a reminder our
code does push the building to the front
through the Main Street design
guidelines um but this board did ask to
have a little bit of it notched out for
some public spaces um how how this
building activates public spaces around
the building how the architecture and
building design interface with ad Json
properties discussion of materials and
detailing of the building what we are
not discussing tonight and you can come
back tomorrow for Bap um for parking and
traffic concerns we also neither board
is is discussing tax abatements um we
are not discussing use tonight the site
design or the general massing we can
certainly discuss um manipulation of the
massing
um many changes that have been suggested
continue to be implanted in the latest
revisions and there's still many
design um still design studies that have
been done in addition you'll be able to
see the views tonight the changes to
date include a refinement of the
southeast entrance piece a clear
definition of public spaces revision of
a lot of the cornice lines all the way
around including on the latest one on
the west elevation that faces the
Alexander to give it a roof line that is
that matches better with what is there
and we can pull up lots of drawings um
this just as a note this is a very
complete packet so we will go through
all the drawings for those who haven't
had the opportunity to look at them on
our
website um the original form of the
building was uniform in height and did
not respond so sensitively and uniquely
to the neighborhood in each Direction in
the process of the design development
the design team responded to the concern
of the board and neighbors and softened
the elevations through the use of richer
materials with more traditional
applications we've gotten caught up a
lot on this idea of Bexley like in its
nature and I think we've all kind of
come full circle and um um have agreed
that this is a more Bexley like
application of materials where brick is
goes all the way from the top to the
bottom and it's not as Whimsical as the
additional um as the original one uh the
appli the applicant was encouraged by
ARB and the staff to add the six story
I'm reiterating that again at the front
of the building toward Main Street to
give it a better silhouette and an
overall shape this also allowed more
flexibility to car carve out masses on
the rear and sides to lessen the mass
and soften the building on the
residential sides um many uh changes
have been made since the original
application proog progress images um I
have them in my staff report I did post
the staff report earlier today if you
haven't had the chance to see it online
which it is public I can bring these
images up but I have put together the
applicant didn't do this I have put
together images from the first
submission through to now so we can see
the progression so um I won't go through
that right now but we can use that as a
tool for discussion um that is pretty
much what I have my ultimately um this
my staff recommenda recommendation would
be to support a recommendation to the
board of zoning and planning so that we
can move ahead with the with the
variances the parking the traffic
studies that the board of zoning and
planning are responsible to for
reviewing um having said that we here
tonight if we do send a positive
recommendation to beap can list as many
conditions and recommendations as we
would like one of which would be that
any design details that we talk about
tonight and I'll take meticulous notes
would be conditioned to come back here
for
review that's what I
have okay thank you uh would the
applicant like to come forward and
present their updates to their
project green means good right all right
all right um well hi uh Brad Pauling
with ph7 Architects and we'll swear you
in
okay well thank you um we appreciate
everyone being here we we uh we was
going to say the same thing as far as uh
we appreciate you scheduling this for us
and and having us back um I I wanted to
speak and I we wanted to spend some time
on some of the newer stuff that we've
seen I guess I'm looking for a little
bit of feedback from your body as far as
how much of the Pres I mean obviously
everything that's in here we did not
want to remove anything from the packet
but I don't feel like we need to spend
all of our time speaking through that I
guess I'm looking for your you know
should we should we move through this
with to the pieces that are new or would
you like me to do more of a historical
update I'm happy to do either but I
thought I would at least before I waste
everyone's time I think we'd like you to
go through the updates because we all
kind of know what the building was
before so you can show us how you have
changed it since the last meeting that
we can do that just let me know what you
would like yeah yeah so if you want to
just sort of uh skip through the first
couple obviously these are slides that
we saw last time site plan this is the
overall front image just go a couple
more on this and let's hold right go
back one
so uh I will speak to a few of the
comments that the board had to us uh
last time so you can understand what we
um we we've tried to do um most of our
attention has been focused on the west
facade and the north facade and so this
as a facade is not there's not a whole
lot of uh substantial change to what you
see in this image the one thing I will
point out is we did study that sixth
floor and the Cornus line um we have
softened it so that there's not a deeper
overhang on this and is more indicative
of kind of what's happening with as the
building sort of stair steps um we've
tried to study that cornice line along
the top of the brick a little bit more I
think we will continue to study that um
we believe that that needs to be a
strong element and I think we can
continue to study that through details
and when we really get into how that
material comes together um but we did
soften that the Top Line there we
thought that was that was definitely uh
important um if you'd like to skip
through next slide
um we are currently and continuously
studying um how the interaction of the
restaurant that you see to the left here
interacts with this public space um it's
something that um we will continue to do
um we have meetings scheduled with that
tenant and we still don't quite
understand what they want so it's hard
for us to imagine through that yet um
it's something that we're more than
happy to continue to talk about and
continue to dialogue Dialogue on we've
we've studied things we've studied
things like bringing the blue canopy out
a little more we've studied things like
what if they don't necessarily need all
that tenant space could that facade
could The Columns remain and then maybe
there's an arcade that gets built that
gets the mass of the building becomes
part of that cover um what I think we
would agree with is that whatever that
is it's shouldn't be a tent or an
added-on type of structure we think we
agree with that um but we think we need
to have dialogue with the actual tenant
and user to understand how that that the
operation of that particular restaurant
would work particular with and as it
relates to that space so something that
we certainly um can continue to discuss
um if you'd like why don't you skip more
a couple more slides I think these are
pretty similar to what you've seen why
don't you go one more let's just pause
here for a moment so one of the comments
that we did have um was sort of a study
and a review of the the finra along this
uh East facade specifically how the
window finestra work Works within the
brick masses that you see and um we've
gone we kind of St went back and forth
and looked at these um we actually think
that we've we still wanted to hold on to
an element of verticality in these um we
think that the justos of these vertical
elements with the many many horizontal
lines um is still quite successful but
we agreed that it probably doesn't need
to go all the way down it was a little
too ex too ex accentuated and so there
is some affinity and there's there's a
sister to
the brick pieces you see in the front
the porches that you see at the front so
we have still maintained a an element of
that verticality we actually think that
that is very similar to what's happening
on the building at the Gateway that
Gateway structure has finestra that's
sort of expressed across two stories um
so we think that that's still we really
do think that there's a there's a
there's a rationale to having some of
that verticality there um so I just
wanted to to comment on that briefly
um the other thing would be if you look
to the next slide
we can continue to talk about um both
the base of the building as it relates
to this corner um and maybe it's not the
I'll come back to it in a second on
another slide but this is a slightly
obviously the north elevation you're
starting to see the corner as it turns
and we are we'll show you in a second a
little bit more but um the building and
the mass um what we're trying to do is
we're trying to take that feedback from
you guys as far as quieting of the
materials and I think when we look at
the elevation of how the building
transitions on the West Side um I think
it really does sort of tell why we think
this is still very successful um as it
relates to all the materials on the
building um the thing that I would point
out here is we can start to look at we
can't start to see how the the structure
of the parking garage and what's the
facade of the of the parking garage as
we go to the next couple slides I just
want you to keep in mind what we're
trying to show but the reality is is
that the bottom layer is mostly open
because it is a parking structure and
it's an open garage but we think that
that that pedestrian level piece is
still um brick columns whether it's a
red brick or a dark brick to match
what's on the front we don't think that
that's exposed concrete we think that
what we see is is a a brick a brick a
brick column brick Sur we think there's
a lot of landscaping to cover that we we
want to soften the front and the the
foundation of the building especially
along all that openness but um these
images obviously we're seeing the bigger
piece of the building and so we're not
focused in there's a couple where in a
second I can point it out
um I think if you go for me if you just
go two slides hold here for a second
this is a new image that we um prepared
we were asked to you know really focus
and study what this uh North northeast
corner looks like and we'll show a fa a
couple other uh elevations of that the
East facade but I think you can start to
see in this image what we think is being
successful y done as it turns this
corner and um you can kind of see how
the building is starting to sort of
stair step or waterfall its materials
down so as you look towards the top of
the image and you see the piece in the
background you can see how the materials
are starting to stair step and we can
definitely look at it in elevation a
little bit more but what what that to us
is doing is is speaking to the calming
nature of of the materials and sort of
bringing it bringing the building you
know from from using materials to to
change the scale um we have studied this
and this elevation with more masonry and
in our opinion we think that those moves
actually are counterproductive to trying
to quiet the building we we have those
studies but we just we think this is
more successful and um I think it's more
apparent when we look at the elevation
in a second but I I I just wanted to
sort of have that in the background as
we look at these couple other images um
I think this is a good example of what a
column and what the parking garage
starts to look like with a little bit of
color so you can kind of see it but we
think that what you see along the rest
of this facade is something similar just
in maybe a different tone of brick and
so we don't you know Envision those
those elements to just be painted
concrete um it's just hard to see in
many of the images that we have
obviously this image is showing you
scale to the Alexander and The Gateway
Beyond um we've we've taken some some
real strides to really make sure that
we're comparatively showing this um we
we're very confident in the the scale
and the size of this compared to the
other building and we've got other
images in here to help you as we go
through the set we tried to make an
emphasis to compare the two as we look
through so we can understand scale and
size and how they relate to each other
um so that's just a piece if you'd like
to go to the next slide we'll we'll look
at an image on the um from the parking
lot between the Alexander and The
Gateway um the two things I'll note is
just as we kind of think about this
stair stepping of the materials and it's
it's hard to see what's happening um
over here in this image but just keep
that in mind I I will point out that uh
one thing that we really did want to we
focused on was specifically what the
view is from Park View as you look
through the two buildings we wanted to
make sure that when you look through
you're actually seeing a facade of
masonry so we were very diligent about
what that access through the two
buildings as a as a person on a
pedestrian or or driving by um I know
that that's not you know what you see
when you look inside this parking lot
but we wanted to be cognizant of of that
and make sure that the the facade Beyond
is you know is is a rich facade it has
detail it has the balconies it's it's
got the elements that that work with the
rest of the building
so um new next slide this is um another
new image that we were able to produce
just showing streetscape um basically
from Park viw uh working our way East
along Main Street here and it you can
see other elements in the background and
this is obviously street level and this
is a little bit of an elevated view um
again we we feel very confident in the
massing of this building as it relates
to the two and so you I think you can
really get a sense of of how our
building really has these two elements
that are on Main Street that have the
five-story facade and the rest of our
building is really the twostory piece
along Main Street so from a massing
standpoint we we really think that this
is this is a telling image um about how
the how it fits into the to the
neighborhood of that
piece um next slide would be a few
images that we've tried to take from
Brien um this is another request that
the board had of us um the top two
images are um from Google Street View
and so these were taken over obviously
when Google came by so this is a
summertime image um the lighning is a
little different so we wanted to point
these out obviously we're not trying to
superimpose our building in here but I
think it's it's helpful we just pick two
SP points along the road um purposely we
pick these in part because when when
there's this Gap we can actually try to
show you what it really is going to look
like um I would point out and if you
zoom in I I think it is important to
know that when you look at this image
it's you know the Gateway and the
Alexander are seen from brighten that
that they obviously I'm picking a cherry
pick a spot here but our building is is
the same height as this building and so
we we really can use this as a gauge to
understand how tall our building is and
so we used a various uh number of
mapping and modeling techniques and so
if you scroll down and you look at these
images oh might be too
far um obviously we these pictures were
taken I waited as long as we could take
them to try to get as many leaves off
the trees as possible we were actually
intentional about that um and you can
see what's happening so we are very
confident in in how this image is is
portrayed as far as what building mass
and scale looks like from brighten Road
um we use a series of wireframe models
to to to Overlay the photograph and so
um if you look to the image to the left
as well you can see that you know the
the tree canopy that's there is is is is
far taller than the building we
understand that you know for a large
portion of the year in central Ohio you
know trees are defil we we understand
that but um we think that a comparison
between these two images shows that um
there are moments along the street where
you can see the building U but it is it
is
minimized um the last couple images are
really just advancements of elevations
um we like I said earlier we tried very
hard to make sure that in when we show
an image we're now trying to make sure
that there's context to the buildings
adjacent when possible um so these two
are are really very similar to what
you've seen before and if you go to the
next
slide we have updates of the west and
north and so in addition we have ghosted
in the the the uh the Alexander the
Gateway the Alexander the Gateway
proportionally where the home is located
um where the property line is um this is
just a gauge of height and obviously
it's very hard to know what a tree is
most of the trees that are out there are
actually way taller than than the point
we have but we we we didn't want to show
something that was um complet you know
incorrect so what what I think you see
in these images is is the start of that
conversation about this sort of stair
step or waterfall and so I think it
really shows itself in this image and
you know the material as it sort of
falls down we're we're cognizant that if
if we put too much more brick on this I
think it actually again it it actually
goes in the reverse it starts to make it
too uh materiality just the vocabulary
changes to the point where the mass
doesn't work so we've turned the corner
with that material onto the back and
studied uh how
how this sort of is is is you know what
that Cornus line Looks like at this
moment um just being different than what
you see here uh it's it by the by nature
of it stepping down a story it's it's
starting to help change the massing uh
and the
materiality I don't think there's a
whole lot else in here that that I
wanted to point out um Ryan would you
like to speak about the Sun study that
you were able to to generate just for a
second I think that would be
helpful
and we can s you in
yep Ryan parison The Edge group 330 West
Spring
Street give this evening is the truth I
do thank
you so everybody has seen this this
slide um that shows the four different
times of the year the shortest day of
the year the longest day of the year and
then the inet um and then this the next
slide we we B took the and this is
because most of the conversation has
been focused on that Western access
drive and the Alexander and the
implications of this building or our
proposed building on on that property
line we took the morning 10:00 a and
noon and these are the exact same plan
views from that previous slide we tried
to project in vertical um nature what
that shadow really mean so that at 10
o'clock in the morning on August 21st
the so this would be the uh parking
level down here on the bottom this is
the first floor of
residential um their
balcony um June at 10 o'clock in the
morning that balcony is exposed to
sunlight um and then obviously once you
get to noon you can see the shadow
hitting the the horizontal surface of
the road or the drive in this location
so that even in December on that
shortest day of the year by the time
noon hits the the bottom floor
residential would have shadow cast over
it um we we didn't go beyond the 12:00
or noon time
frame and that's really I think the only
thing we've added to the to the
slideshow
yeah I do think there there's a couple
slides at the back that I don't believe
were in the set previous but were part
of the submitt for the tree commission
if you the last slide in the set I think
um which is a series of vignettes um
about materials park benches pieces it
just gives a a flavor of of where some
of the exterior site furnishings and
improvements we what we kind of Invision
as the style and the uh kind of
inspiration Board of things so I don't
know that this was in there before so
you probably if it wasn't it wasn't
so um that's those are the items that we
wanted to talk about we want to let you
guys have your uh your questions and
comments and we
will come back and answer more so thank
you thank
you okay can I have a show of hands then
as to how many people would like to
speak tonight I want to get a feel
for I'm not sure that this
microphone I'm trying to get a feel for
how many people would like to speak
tonight can you all raise your hand if
you plan on
speaking okay um so it looks like
there's maybe eight or 10 people um okay
so uh I don't whoever would like to go
first that's fine make sure you have
signed in um on the uh on the podium
signin sheet and um like we've done in
the past meetings we're going to keep it
to three minutes so whoever would like
to go first please come
forward you want swear
everybody oh yeah so let's stand
everyone up at one time and we will
swear everyone in that would like to
speak if there's anyone out in the um
Lobby that would like to speak please
stand and raise your hand so you can be
sworn
in do do you solemly swear or affirm the
testimony you're about to give this
evening is the truth yes yes thank
you then please state your name as you
each approach and
address I was born and bred in Chicago
your name and address please oh it's on
here do you want me to repeat it yes
please Lindy caner 103 South
Dawson and 505 South Park
viw I was born in Bren Chicago city of
lots of high buildings lots of
individual
neighborhoods and that's what the city
was built on every eight blocks on the
north side of Chicago was a different
ethnic
neighborhood all of them lived Side by
Sid we had a great time it was a
wonderful City and a wonderful City to
grow up in I'm married we moved to New
York were there for a year came to
Columbus took an apartment at Far East
and knew and met all kinds of people
from Beckley found out about Bexley fell
in love with Beckley took us eight years
to find a house or be able to find a
house in Beckley I don't have to tell
you what the reputation is for Bexley
all I can tell you is that if this is
going to become Bexley it's very sad and
I think it is
unconscionable to build something like
this and create a whole different
Ambiance and environment
for what be Beckley has been for however
many years it's been here and I am
totally disappointed that this is even
being considered uh as and it sounds
like it's gone through already based on
the
conversations conversations I had with
two of you indicated that there had been
eight or nine other developers who had
been interested and I implore you to go
back to them and ask them what they're
they are thinking about thank you for
your time and listening to
me please hold your applause that is not
appropriate next person
please we'll have to start the
timer thank
you
uh at the at the last ARB there was a
discussion about the um Western
elevation of the building and one of the
things that was requested was and said
was that
the the microphone okay is that
better uh it was said that something uh
need to be addressed in the northwest
corner and that uh by doing that it
would uh uh improve the uh appearance of
the building from the Alexander but that
was done using a slide that showed a
sceleton of the
existing um apartment buildings from the
from as looking from Main Street but
that slide doesn't resist uh represent
the actual location of those uh of those
apartment buildings in town is there a
slide you'd like us to be referencing
that you're talking about it's actually
from the front of the building where it
shows a a skeleton outline of the um I'm
not sure which one it might be is it a
perspective
or from an elevation an elevation from
the
front
just stop me whenever I get to what it's
probably
back no not that one is that the
front does that have this that has a red
line that represents the front of the
Gateway
project to the
left oh that shows the existing Trinity
buildings
ma'am it's rather in the
package right
there yes okay so in the top one there
you see two you see the Trinity tow
houses and a trinity apartment that are
up against the Alexander and it it gives
the appearance that those buildings are
already as close to or even closer to
the Alexander than this building is
planned to be can you see what I mean in
the top yeah up at the top right in
there right in right in there you see a
driveway that goes between the buildings
and it it appears that one of the one of
the buildings actually already is
further uh
West uh than and where the proposed
building is going to be but that's that
is misleading because if you if you look
at the photos that I handed out if you
look at the first one it shows looking
from the the the apartment building that
we can see from uh from the Alexander
looking along the
uh the U north wall of that directly at
the
South Southeast
most uh condominium you can see that uh
the edge of the uh apartment building
that is closest to that line is is
actually not does not obstruct us very
much at
all it's it's it's it's not you know
what I mean it doesn't go all the way
back it it it stops at the uh gateways
parking lot
so it doesn't it doesn't get into our
view now you can see that on the next
page you can see a view that is taken
from the southeast looking at the
southeast from the balcony of unit 308
on the third floor that's on the north
side of the
Alexander and you can see that there's
the apartment building that's closest to
the property
line and there's a I've got a got it
marked in there as 42 feet so
it's actually about 60 feet from the
balcony of the Alexander resident to
that building which is to the right and
normally not in view unless you stand
way back in the corner of the of the
balcony although you could see it from
the bedroom
windows in the in the next slide you can
see looking Northeast from that same 308
balcony looking into the existing
parking lot and the black lines show
show the uh as close as I could get it
from the measurements that on
the map auditor mapping site and the
drawings that that's where the northeast
corner of the building is going to be
and it will start there and it will go
about 350 fet you you guys can correct
me uh to Main Street so any Notch that's
taken out of that northwest corner is
not going to be a big Improvement for
anybody who lives on the North side or
on the um on the uh north side of the
east side east side of the of the um
Alexander so okay sir your time is up
I'm sorry all right thank you the next
slide shows that from the upper floors
what we see even in the winter is
trees
so from the other slide I'll finish real
f F from the other slide that shows the
Alexander outlined over the Western
elevation you can see that every window
on the Alexander will look 40 feet 42 43
feet Straight Ahead into the Western
Wall of that
building thank
you good evening I'm Nancy marzella I
live in unit 407 in the AL Ander just
like to preface my comments with a
couple I'm always intrigued at every
time we come to one of these meetings
we're told by this committee and other
committees what an opportunity this is
for Bexley with absolutely no regard for
the people on short brighten in the
Alexander Park View Colombia Colombia
place for the fact that we have already
put millions of dollars into Our Living
Spaces these are our homes and it's like
we're the enemy but we've already
invested in Bexley and there's nobody
nobody is saying that you know we we
understand what you're going through and
we're going to help you through this
it's all about the developer and that's
getting real
old secondly a committee just like this
not so many years ago my husband and I
lived at 144 South Drexel and we loved
our home and our very good friends who
lived next door to us uh just moved and
they sold their home that home was then
sold uh twice and the second person
moved in put this
monstrosity of a addition onto their
home and we asked please consider the
shade that this is putting on our our
salarium which nobody wanted to hear
because they were putting millions of
dollars into this and we shortly after
that move we couldn't get a weed to grow
in that salarium after because of the
shade that was put on to our salarium
after
that also you I know you don't want
anything redundant said but the density
of this building to our unit and it's
just as John had said it's the mature
trees it's all of what we're used to on
an everyday basis you all don't live
there we live there we deal with this
every single day thinking about what's
going to happen we're not even going to
be able to see the Sun or the moon and I
would like to see if you could pull up
the slide that has what is now being
called the alleyway they showed it at
the
uh I guess at the tree commission
there's a drawing that
shows the west side of the new
construction and the east side of where
two four two yeah 207 407 and 307 which
I live in
407 Kathy and Larry scholnick are in 207
but there is a and it became abundantly
clear the other night at the um tree
commission meeting that yeah you're
calling this an alley I didn't pay all
the
$750,000 I have now invested in my place
to live on an alley that's going to have
two-way traffic going back and forth all
night
long and I would also like
there's a drawing that shows the uh the
west side is that me is is it the
rendering that you're looking for
rendering the rendering that shows the
view down the alley interest at all into
putting any kind of design any
architectural feature on that side of
the building every you're all so worried
about the east side of the building
where the um Bexley square is but the
side we look at is like a blank wall and
don't look at those trees they'll never
look like that we'll all be dead by the
time there these are going to
be those trees are 30 years old so but
so that's that's just a pretty picture
but when you look at the side of the
building that we're going to be that
still isn't it but it's
the was
it well from there but if you look at
the drawing that is the West the west
side of the Alexander and east side of
the new building it's an alley and and
it's nothing there's nothing there to
make that side of the building have and
we're going to be looking at it every
single day it's ugly it's really bad
thank you so
much next person
please good evening I'm Dr Nicole Bundy
uh my husband three children and I live
at 65 South Columbia Avenue in addition
I'm an owner of unit 401 in the
Alexander where my mother-in-law
currently resides uh before I start my
comments I was asked to um inquire about
a storm water retention plan is is I
don't know if that's the perview of this
meeting maybe it's tomorrow night but
we'd like to hear about that because as
we all know Bexley does have a storm
water management
issue
okay
okay okay thank you so
um uh at the risk of stating the obvious
I'd like to remind everybody here that
Bexley codified ordinances state that
Architectural Review was established to
meet several goals including balancing
the benefits of preserving this City's
existing quality and character against
the benefits of responsible
Redevelopment it's charged with
maintaining the quality of residential
neighborhoods and and Commercial
corridors maintaining building scale
appropriate to each neighborhood and
protecting property values the review
process for this project also determines
if the site and design plans for this
building are in keeping with the purpose
and intent of the Main Street district
and the Main Street guidelines the
design under
consideration clearly conflicts with
many of the Main Street guidelines and
is not compatible with the adjacent
residential neighborhood for all the
reasons that have been discussed
primarily the building scale and mass
also the height certainly the density
and the adverse environmental impacts
are discordant to Myriad attributes and
qualities that make Bexley an
exceptional place to live the most
recent changes to the design while they
do improve the overall aesthetic do not
begin to mitigate many of these issues
particularly the density and the scale
therefore it's my contention along with
many others who I know have voiced their
opposition to this proposal and have
invested in Bexley
that the Architectural Review Board
should not in fact issue a certificate
of appropriateness and in fact would be
remiss in their duties and
responsibilities to to us as Bexley
residents if such a certificate were
granted thank you thank
you I'm Kathy scholnik I live at 500
South Parkview with Alexander And as
Nancy mentioned I'm unit
207 and I will be extremely affected by
the new two-way alley that will be
running 10 feet from my
windows with the Traffic
Way all day all
night I would I wonder why no one has
considered putting that alley that
two-way access Street on the other side
of the building where the commerci
commercial stuff is instead of running
it right next to us it's bad enough that
the building will be 45 fet away from us
we can hang our laundry between the
buildings but you know move the road
can't that be a
consideration you know we're told that
everything is Do no harm to the
residents well we're being hared Med by
having this road right under us are you
suggesting that you'd like the road
moved over and the building pushed that
much closer no leave the building where
it is move the road over I mean I mean
we're we're
suffering we're losing value in our
units and we're losing you know value
with the road we're losing value by not
having any sunlight coming in because of
the building the shade study I don't
really agree with I've lived there for
15 years and we get sun on our balcony
until 11:30 every day with that building
being 45 feet away from us I don't think
that's going to happen
anymore I'm not going to be able to sell
my unit for what I paid for it even
certainly not a profit and I'm going to
be miserable who can live without any
sunlight
daylight and I really hope you all
listen to us because I think our
concerns are really
valid thank you thank you so
much um I just want to say I what's your
name and address yes it's Mary Connor I
live at 21 70 Brien not on the on the
other side of the of Brien the north
side
um I I agree with Miss Bundy and uh this
other woman that just spoke the scale of
this is just
not it's too much and every time I just
became aware of this about a week ago um
I apologize for my appearance but there
aren't enough hours in the day for me to
get done what I need to get done and I
was trying to read up on this I um I'm
not against the development and I don't
think it's
unattractive um
I I understand you know someone's going
to develop it but I think the scale is
just way too much not only I know you
don't deal with parking or traffic but
um my thought too was why isn't the um
well I know why I think why the uh exit
for the project isn't doesn't run along
um Bexley Square
because this whole block of Drexel I
mean of Maine between
Parkview and
Drexel is congested almost all the
time uh there is
uh um you have College Avenue converging
right near this development college is
always busy you have just the regular
Main Street traffic you have traffic
coming off of the freeway um I know
that's an issue for another night but
it's more than just this property and
the Alexander that's being
affected and there are families on
brighten where their children play out
in front the front yard there are people
who uh use brighten as their access to
the bike trail to Wolf park for walking
you know and adding
another Well 230 or 400 people right in
that block is
concerning and uh I think
that
the it's not just going to
be uh the residents of the unit it's
going to be the visitors to the
residents it's going to be the people
who go to the
restaurants you know that's adding a lot
it's going to be the trucks that service
the restaurants you know we've um Giant
Eagle has been a nice neighbor that's
been handled pretty well I think but uh
this is just encroaching too much into
the larger
area and I do think it needs to be
scaled back I did want to ask you
um Miss Tony um I was just perusing the
minutes from the
last I'll ask I can ask
later if you you can you can finish your
question you you made I realized it's
the person who took the minutes not
necessarily your comment but you said
something about you were worried that
you know releasing there's this project
is constantly being updated yes it keeps
increasing the number of Apartments um
but um you were worried that with all
the updates that are flowing in to help
you decide on this um there may may not
be enough time to share and I think let
me let me um clear up that comment that
comment was made because some of the
people in the audience were concerned
that we were trying to slide things in
um that hadn't been on the website more
than a day or two or that we were
showing things in the meeting that had
not been on the website and I was
basically just explaining that that is
how almost every project that we work on
in Bexley goes that we try to
be um accommodating to the applicants
and we do accept things later than what
we probably should but uh in order to
try to help everyone get the most
upto-date information we do allow people
to bring things to meetings and um and
share them at that time so it was more
of a comment to try to let everyone
understand no one was trying to slip
something in at the last minute that you
know um that that people hadn't had
enough time to process so okay but you
know frankly I find I find your the it
and the
websites uh very wanting myself um it
it's it's hard
to catch up on something like this yeah
based on feel free feel free to contact
the city at any time and if you want to
come in um Karen or someone will make an
appointment with you and help you um to
review the you know the things that are
on the website so okay thank you thank
you next person
please
uh yes
ma'am good evening and thank you for the
opportunity to um express my opinion um
I'd like to go on record for umos can
you please state your name and address
my name is aland Diaz I'm from 281 South
Parkview thank you and thank you for the
opportunity to express my opposition to
the current project um it the basis
being it breaks with the architecture of
the city as we all knew it and we all
chose to buy into um let me make one
some one thing clear this is a
generational opportunity in the city uh
this size property lot will probably not
open up in my lifetime and probably not
in many people's lifetimes so it
behooves upon us to get it right and my
opposition with not getting it right not
to repeat a lot of the points that were
made is is the interaction with
neighboring properties um specifically I
want to address two points number one is
the height and number two the facade in
terms of the height uh the the
contractor has a right for three stories
the original proposal from the
contractor was five stories currently
the proposal at hand is six stories so I
propose we meet in the middle and I
don't care about what's below grade I
care about what's above grade so if we
do three stories above grade and we go
two stories below grade everyone gets
five sto stories we take the parking
deck put it underground add an extra
parking story underground therefore this
the over overall height of the building
is three stories and a lot of the of the
issues that we have here will probably
be resolved so again don't think about
going up think about going down we have
rules in place so that things look
similar that's why we don't build the
Lebec tower on Main Street because it
breaks again it breaks the the overall
interaction with neighboring property
the other thing I like to bring forth is
the facade um this is closer to the
Bexley facade as compar Bexley aesthetic
as compared to the prior uh plant having
said that um I would rather see the
bottom story be all Stone um something
more of a Housman um architectural
aesthetic what we have in Paris for
example um if you have the bottom story
all Stone and if you really want to have
a nod to Bexley and say you know tip of
the hat to Bexley make it limestone make
it locally quar limestone
um which is really what the Bexley um
materials are look around look at the
houses built here in the 1920s that is
is is something that is very Germaine to
what we have and then above have one
story brick one color brick don't have
all these little Shades I I don't
understand that it doesn't speak to me
it looks like something that a first
year grad student from architecture
school wrote uh uh did so just make it
uniform make it make it make it a little
more in line with what we had again I'm
not an architecture I'm not an architect
so I don't know
and then finally the question to the
board is is this an ad hoc uh variance
to a specific
contractor or is this a change to the
aesthetic of the city and that's more of
a of a question in other words are we
now going to tell ourselves that the new
beex aesthetic is going to be six
stories on Main Street throughout or is
this a
one-time deal to one specific contractor
for one specific project project because
implications are are are many and varied
and and again this is more maybe it's
more rhetorical question uh thank you
for your attention thank
you next person
please is there anyone else that wants
to speak before we go to the
board
that's I'm Mike
Manan I do um my qu what's your address
sir my address is 226 South Columbia
Avenue thank you um my question pertains
actually to the board itself and to the
members of the city um I'm assuming
because you're all here deciding on this
there's no Financial relationship
between any of you and Mr C and all of
his development team is that a fair
assessment that is a fair assessment or
we would not be sitting here thank
you okay is there anyone
else while I'm signing in can you please
put the slide of the north side of the
design
I pleas Ang Yak 2240 rden Road short
brighten around the corner from the
project how do we get here I've been
coming to every meeting since August
24th and there has been modifications to
the design but at the end of the day
there's three groups that are being
represented behind me there is the group
from West Beckley that would consist of
Drexel Columbia Park View and brighten
there's also a contingency from the
Alexander and Bexley at large
the developer has met with The Bard the
Alexander to try to address some of
their needs um not at one time has the
mayor or the board or the developer
reached out to the neighbors that are
within in the radius that were notified
of these meetings they're not being good
neighbors already how they going to be
good neighbors in the future I was part
of the Giant Eagle project and it was
the same develop uh company and they did
work with the neighbors and they did
come up with compromises right now it's
David and Goliath and it's whatever they
want they seem to be getting
and you're talking about um this meeting
being about neighboring
properties we are neighboring
property um I know several of you on the
board no one would want this on the
corner of Broad and Cassidy no one would
want this on the corner of Broad and
cassingham but it's okay for it to be on
Maine and Park View because you don't
think it's going to affect you we've
talked about the traffic we've talked
about the schools we've talked about
safety we've talked about numerous
things and I understand this is about a
design but for us to sit here and hear
that this original project has grown
that the the the guidelines are for
three stories then it was five now it's
six we're talking about a building that
is twice as big than that what is coded
for Main Street why
why for those that did not see a TV Spa
on um Channel 6 quote unquote this is
exactly what Bexley needs no it is not
what Bexley needs we don't need a
massive building dropped in the middle
of downtown I've already talked about
how this would not be in Old Arlington
why is this so important to the mayor
why is this so important to the council
you guys on this board represent the
citizens of Bexley to make sure that
everything is in line for the
architecture um integrity and so forth
I'm asking you this is not responsible
to approve please do not push this
through with any sort of uh amendments
or guidelines because once we get to Bap
then we're going to be going through the
same thing and this is just going to
keep on going and going and the last
thing I want to say is that again this
is a city this is not a corporation and
you're not the board of directors your
decisions are going to affect this
community the community that has been
around for 115 years there is no going
back when this building starts to
construct and for however many years
that's going to last it is forever and
so I please ask you
that that you reconsider and just
because the representative here that is
the city rep and they are being pushed
through to to go ahead and try to get
this through pleasee do the right thing
you have kids you have neighbors this is
not what the overall Community wants or
needs thank you for your
time I have asked you to please not
applaud it is not
appropriate it is very disrespectful
it's disrespectful to this
board I need sworn
n
my thank you my name is Mary Kendrick
and I live at 464 South Park View we're
in the yellow brick house at the corner
brighten and Park
View yes thank you thank you for having
me I I'm just um sitting in the audience
and I care a great deal about Bexley I
love it I've lived here um it's I'm in
my third house and I never want to leave
and I'm just looking I think it's a
great opportunity I ree for the city to
have um whatever it is that it's
searching for but I think what we need
to do is find a way to help people um
see this as you know something beautiful
and I think in this board and in this
setting we need something that's really
pretty and Bexley has lots of examples
of that I pulled up the picture of
Parkview Arms and while it's difficult
to see on a cell phone we all know it
well that it's a brick building that
looks like it has a federal type appeal
with um bell towers white columns
walkways with boxwoods it's lovely and
mimicking something like that might be
quite appealing to the residents of
Bexley then you take a walk down to
Sherborn at Shor you have that yellowish
brick it's only two stories it's quite
lovely it's what we're used to we think
it's pretty maybe the builders could
consider something that looked more like
the sherbo building or if you walk down
to jees again you've got that yellowish
blonde brick you have this beautiful
Limestone type entrance maybe there's a
way we could incorporate some beauty
into the building so that it looked a
bit more like Bexley and then lastly we
of course have Park View arms which
maxes out at four stories I think based
on the photo with again um Dr Diaz
mentioned the mansard roofs like I just
think we have so much architecture
Beauty in Bexley and I think that this
building doesn't quite hit that yet so
while it's applauding or I'm not sure
the right word um we certainly applaud
the fact that it's improved we're not
where we need to be yet um so I wish
that maybe we could ask our Builders to
try and make it look a bit more like one
of the examples of beauty um that the
residents already appreciate so much
thank you thank
you okay um do we all want a break
before we go to board comments or is
everybody okay
well good okay question
um name Joan I don't think she just the
two previous meetings is that correct
she wasn't here for the last meeting but
she was here for the one before that
okay I know
want she is a regular board member but
she couldn't make it to the last meeting
where Michael steel sat in and he is
here again today at the end he won't be
voting today but he is here so that he
can uh keep track of the project so
share the information to of meeting that
come
know's well um just so um to to make
sure you're aware every time a board
member misses a meeting and a project
that is ongoing I um catch them up
personally it's on YouTube we have
minutes because I I agree with you it
would not be fair to have a board member
that didn't and we've ju Miss stower and
I even had that conversation like Ste
was here the last two times right that
first meeting so you guys want
to these are all volunteers so it's
often hard so and Miss ster was able to
go on YouTube and listen to the last
meeting
so yep yep yep no
problem okay um so let's go to board
comments then is there a board member
that would like to go
first Mr
higher this
B I can also pull up anything on the
screen
yeah
yeah um I I would like to ask some
questions of the applicant and um if we
could pull up the
section uh of the road between uh the
Alexander and um the Gateway and the
building
itself uh yeah so if we could zoom in on
that upper section at the
roadway so I do agree with one of the
public comments about this I was looking
at the site
plan uh which is on page well it's one
of the edge drawings at the
beginning but according to the site plan
this doesn't actually occur it's you
know this how how do you explain that I
can address I mean this isn't in this
submittal but it was in I think the
previous submittal if you can pull it up
but we did try to Overlay the the
existing buildings in comparison to
where the facade is on our building and
this is based on the survey and S so I
see an outline here and this is the
dashed line you're talking about
so and that occurs for how many feet
roughly where it's actually that close
what's the date on
that so this that condition only occurs
for about 20 feet maybe less than
that that
that uh north and south north and south
I think do you guys know how deep the
building
is I mean you can act you can actually
see the um outline on the edge group uh
schematic design plan a very rough
scale it looks like it's
about can you can you pull up the edge
group uh drawing on the
screen it's the
first after the perspectives
we
yeah okay which which
page
yeah that
one so if we go down over here zoom in
here
okay so this is hard to read because
there's so many so many gray lines but
I'm seeing a d a large dash line right
here and then where does it
turn
that this
tree
here here so so from here
to here here right
there okay so from here to here on the
length of that road is what that section
is showing the distance
of uh from the existing Trinity um
building right okay so it's a little
misleading because if you go back to
that section you know that is not
actually the the distance of the
existing building
from the uh from the Alexander and from
the Gateway building I just wanted to
clarify that that that's a fair
statement that it is not in the exact
cross-section line of where that
I mean it's it's the closest part of the
existing buildings to the view to
approximately 75t the Gateway and it's
it actually ends before you even get to
the Alexander and hence the perception
especially from uh one one public
comment and this that you know that is
not their experience right now and so
the building is the the new building
actually you know besides this you know
30 40 50 whatever feed it is right and
you can see the buildings um just to the
the two-story portion of that building
right that is in line with our facade
okay I mean we were trying to give it um
context to what is there today that's
perched up on the the 10 foot grade
right above and give a height could you
zoom in on that section
again
um one thing that I don't understand
about this and there there were a couple
public comments about this but I don't
see how
there's enough Green Space here honestly
to have anything grow um along this
building I mean that distance is you
can't grow a tree that big that close to
a foundation um or in that condition
unless it's got a vertical root system
so H how do you plan to actually make
trees grow in this in this
section I I think there are other
examples of where trees have grown in
beds that small um I I can and try to
look up some examples of them but uh
we're using upright trees that keep a
narrow spread so that they're not
growing into the building and and
constantly needing to be pruned even
though these they still will I'm not
trying to say that they're not gonna
have to prune the yeah could you go back
to that site plan
again me I think on the opposite side of
that street we did narrow the spacing on
the the trees from 45 ft on centers to
30 feet to try to fill in the w property
line where we have a better growing
condition um I I see
that but if you zoom in on that road
again between the Alexander and um the
new building you know this this kind of
element right I I just don't see that
being realistic because it can't grow
into the building and so you know you're
going to have a half a tree but the one
of the comments actually had been
mentioned several times during the
course of this project was how do we
create you know Pockets along here and
we haven't really seen any resolution to
that there's balconies I understand
there are there's a rooftop at the back
I understand that as well but I really
think it would be better for this
project if we actually had Pockets where
you could have the sidewalk you know
work around but have a bigger planting
area maybe a seeding area um and make
this uh more lively Street if we're if
it's going to be a street which it is in
this scenario instead of having just a
flat wall why can't we have pockets more
Pockets so I'm just bringing that up
because it was a concern going back to
the first
um the first um session the first uh
presentation my other comment if we can
go to the perspective on the
North uh
view yeah the north side side of the
building
yeah so
um one thing that kind of caught me by
surprise at our last presentation was
that there were units added and um even
with the sixth floor and it's a little
disconcerting to me because the reason
why we were considering the variance for
the sixth floor was so that we could
have more step down and that's not
really happened here and this back
elevation you know is still the five
stories I was hoping that this whole
fifth floor would be gone by the time we
get back to the north side of this
building and if you did take away this
fifth floor at the back side of the
building you would be minus those 16
units uh that and you'd still have plus
two units that you've added so to me
that step down I think could really help
the massing of this building now our
primary cornice line would really be
here and uh again it goes back to
comments that had been made along the
way for having this building as you even
referenced you know sort of stepping
down as we work our way back but in fact
it's not and if you go to the floor plan
for the fifth
floor if we could go to the floor plan
for the fifth floor I think it also kind
of um in a sense helps to break down the
mass a little bit
more uh like we did at the front where
um you know we have the public space
that we requested and you guys
graciously um inserted in there to to
have you know two Mass forms instead of
one long continuous fifth floor or five
stories on Main Street is this the fifth
floor but you know why not make this a u
shape you know and just take this all
away right here those are those are 16
units and those are that's 16 of the 18
that you've added to the project and so
can we compromise and bring this back so
this building actually has you know a c
ending to it or an H right in at the
fifth floor instead of having these go
all the way up to the fifth floor I
understand that's a lot to ask but I
think that I'm responding to comments
that had been made along the way for you
know breaking this down that and the the
pockets or some way to allow for more
growth and for a better Street on the
west elevation are my comments I think
you know the material issues that um
some public that some of the public
comments made are valid absolutely valid
and we would have loved to I personally
would have loved to have seen different
colors um I understand this is you know
a contemporary look that is going around
you find it in the arena district um you
find it in the short north um and that
makes you know perfect sense but it's
not Bexley so you know to be able to
justify black brick um to say that
that's Beckley is a stretch and I've
argued this on other cases that have
come before us or other applications um
the red brick certainly but you know is
there a consideration or could there be
a consideration for you know a different
color brick at the first two levels
because I thought that was I thought
that was a great comment um and you know
I understand the more muted colors as
you go up because in a sense they will
hopefully be able to blend blend in with
or you know Fade to fade that's why we
didn't want that heavy cornice that's
why this is very nice this cornice line
that we worked on in the in the charet
is the perception of the brick going up
the four
floors uh makes sense to me but I and
and on Main Street to me this this is a
this is a very nice um massing but again
when you get to the back and you're on
the west when you're on the west side
and the north side I would like to see
more uh advancement for scale and for um
you know making this more Bexley more
neighborhood friendly um again the
reason why we were considering the
variants for the sixth floor was so that
we could you know help to break this
massing down whether it's on the west
side or a little bit on the west side
and somewhat on the uh the north side as
well um and again I don't want to repeat
myself but I'm very grateful for the
public space that uh is very gracious
and um also for the you know semi-public
space in front of the the restaurant and
the
retail um but I think those those things
would just add a lot more to this
project in terms of breaking it down and
uh to make it more
scalable um the the the main street
guide lines actually do call in this
Corridor for uh five
stories um now does that go all the way
back that is um up for interpretation in
the Main Street guidelines but again if
we can break this down I think it would
be an improvement those are my
comments Mr Hall would you like to go
next um
if you can go to well first of all if
you can go to the first rendering where
the Hudson sign is on the
blue can you tell me what the material
is for that
blue it's not something we've discussed
before so it's like an ACM panel type
okay um secondly if we can go to
the Beckley um it would be the East
Elevation that we see from here
next one keep going that
one I think this elevation has come a
long way from what where it was
originally in in design and so forth and
the stepping down and everything that
we've discussed has helped it quite a
bit um I would like to see the west
elevation evolve evolve to be more
consistent with what we're seeing here
so if we can go to the west elevation
that the one that's facing the
Alexander as you look at this you if you
go one more
sorry the one thing you did a good job
of on the East Elevation is hiding the
parking garage as I look at that you
know I can stand I I know that I'll be
able to be out in this parking lot and
look at this building and not really
know that there's a parking garage in
there beyond the portals that are taking
taking me into that building and in this
case um we have that that brick piece in
there and it's just it's floating almost
on a plant I I really strongly believe
that that needs to come down and tie to
the um you know come down and touch
grade it needs to look like it's
supported um you know from grade
up um I agree with all the comments
about the greenery and the trees and in
a little bit of area there I'm not I'm
not really seeing where
something as vertical as you're showing
is actually going to grow in such a
small area um you know so I think we
need to do a better job of of bringing
the building down engaging it to grade
and making sure that it's more as I'm
walking along there as a pedestrian I
feel like I'm walking along a street
skate more so than a than a parking
garage itself and then that leads me to
my next comment that
I uh if you go to the
go well you can just go to the just go
to the fullon west
elevation on the elevation
sheets sorry I'm bouncing around here
like crazy I
know yeah I I I understand what you're
trying to achieve and you talk about
softening and everything but I I'm I'm
not sure I'm there and gets back to if
I'm look as I'm even looking at the
North
elevation um the that that middle piece
and that's all Hardy plank right I'm
assum some sort of Hardy Board again
it's just floating up on a plen almost
and it's not tied to the base so it's we
don't have you know base Middle top
going on on this elevation and I agree
that stepping back if we can it would be
nice if we can get rid of those units
and I think that would help this
elevation but if that middle section if
it just took on the character of the the
Brick Motif that we have the brick
language I actually think that that
makes this building a lot more
attractive it formalizes the base starts
to talk to Bas Middle top as we're we're
all you know pretty used to in that
language and then as you swing around to
the west
elevation I then don't think that the
other area where you have the light gray
party um makes any sense because then
it's the only place you have it going on
on any facade so I think that that you
know a couple little gestures like that
could could really help this point
because I think the the Main Street
elevation when it comes down and engages
with the street is is pretty strong
we've gotten to a good place on that and
just and we've gotten to a good place on
it on the um on the East Elevation and I
just think on the on the back on the
North and as you go along the um the
West I think that would help help give
this building a little more substance um
and and and bring in some of the uh the
the character that was was brought up
earlier I also think and I and I'm fine
with you know sort of working with um
the tenant um on the restaurant and
figuring out how they're going to work
that outdoor area and everything but um
that that that's that's going to be a
real sensitive area and I think that
that would have to be a condition that
would have to come back into this board
in terms of design and everything
because I I I feel very strongly that it
needs to be part of the building and not
part of the brand um so that's um I
think that's all my
comments thank
you Mr Scott Mr
ster I can go first I don't have a whole
lot to
add I would my um biggest concern is the
west elevation and like Mr Hall and
others have said lots of progress on
Maine generally I'm okay but I agree
with everything that that Keith said
about the floating nature of those gray
panels but for me the the the scale and
the relationship to the rest of the
neighborhood um is still an issue on the
west side and I understand the site
constraints and the desire to maximize
and um have have a a successful
commercial result but I I I I've got a
big problem with the West Side um with
the uh this the relationship to the
other the neighboring
buildings the nature of the Ingress and
egress and how that plays with the
building so I would say that absence of
improvement on that
elevation I don't think we're there
rest of
it um I don't really have an issue with
the
rest that's it Mr
Scott um I agree with what's been said
here tonight from the board and I I will
try not to repeat uh any of it
um can we go to the site
plan the landcape AP site plan
specifically the road at the west side
of the
building uh so since our last meeting
I've been looking at this and of course
going through the latest packet um and
looking at the and again I don't want to
get too much into the overall site
planning uh and I know there was a tree
and Gardens commission meeting that uh
um recommended going through Bap with a
lot of conditions um but based on even
some of the public comment tonight the
the road
looking at this road that does pass by
the
Alexander uh I would make a strong
recommendation to the applicant to
eliminate that connection between the
second garage entry uh forcing all
traffic to the South and making the road
to the north to the connection alley at
the north of the Alexander Green Space
to soften that connection between the
two
buildings oh I have a pointer if I can
see it yeah is it working I can't see it
okay so between so basically this this
access You' have access to the to from
the south and to the garage this road
from here to here would be omitted and
become green space uh that could pull
these trees off or added more trees or
what I mean there's a series of trees
here along this Edge I know there's
traffic and I know there's all sorts of
studies that go on with these site plans
I get that uh
obviously and fire truck access which
could be still maintained through green
SC screenscape um I know that that would
be one in one out we'd have to maybe
look at you'd have to look at something
over here uh which is you know actually
kind of a nice pedestrian connection but
what that does and the challenge with
and I want to make a point here the
Alexander is built too is very close to
its existing property line um if this
building built that close you'd be six
feet apart uh which is not not building
code fire codewise would cause us source
of problems let alone people that lived
in the Alexander so
um in that that existing condition is is
in a way creating a a hardship um for
any structure that's built here because
you can't really build um to the setback
um because of the proximity
but I would love to see some additional
uh investigation into that road uh and
seeing if there's a way to um still gain
your fire access which is uh code
requirement um but maybe soften that up
um so that it wasn't a two-lane alley
and you more than welcome to comment
when I'm
done uh so hold on right um and then on
the North uh I know there's some
existing trees sep in the existing
properties to the north of this property
um but as you as you populated the west
side I I I really would recommend I know
there's not a lot of depth here um but I
think there's some you know even the
additional views that I saw from Brien
again this is landscape so I get it it's
not really part of the building uh I
would really look at additional
screening at this side and less against
the building because that's going to
help with the angles of screening to
this building to the north uh I agree
with Mr H's comment further looking at
this stepping of that fifth floor uh
would go a long way to kind of softening
this structure I've said that from the
beginning I do like the the the start of
that on the corners as I mentioned in
our last
meeting do you want to since that's all
landscape you you want to address that I
I mean so some things that came out of
Monday Night are along the north Edge
flipping the fence and the Hedge we had
the Hedge on the neighbors's side to try
to soften the wall effect so there are
some things we're working through I
think we could probably look at adding
some trees um it is a pretty full um and
I I we existing vegetation through some
of that so lot it is but more will help
and I think and then as if we're talking
about traffic and the the Western Drive
we we've looked at that so many times in
so many different ways and um we have
had one-way motions to the South through
that section that you're talking about
and when when we needed to cut off the
circulation in the northeast corner
between the parking lots we had to open
that back up just to get circulation to
get fire trucks and um to get to the the
50 parking spaces in the back without
Crossing through their
properties
Jason Tes you're about to give this I
do uh Pete I just want to address the
fire department access because that that
has been a challenge over the last month
working with Columbus fire department
and specifically site circulation we've
been very sensitive to the neighbors
when it comes to connections to the
bride and eliminating that and then
secondarily having no cross connection
between our properties uh with the city
parcel and as part of that we've had
extensive meetings with the fire
department to the point the mayor
involved was part a participant in a
call with them uh recently right before
Thanksgiving and that site circulation
specifically the width on the west side
of the building is going to be very
important to the fire department their
expectation is that is a driveway um
with that said I mean that I I hear
concerns about you know trying to Green
up that and there may be some
opportunities there I would certainly
would trust working with Ryan on that
with EDG group but the the idea of
mimicking or creating a similar
streetcape that might be like on Main
Street would pull the trees out a little
bit and and bringing sidewalk up to the
building I think would help soften that
and maybe eliminate some concerns about
the vertical side of the trees I mean
certainly would I'm no landscape
architect but I I can't get the fire
department to change the the access on
that West Side that's that that
important from the process is there no
option with them on a reinforced
Turf actually
no he's with
Continental yeah he's with the
developer I'm with Conor
estate it's not an open it's not an open
Forum this no not
yet we were having a conversation with
Jason who are you with I'm just
res okay I'm sorry well can we finish
our conversation with Jason and then
go but we are done with public comment I
believe so yeah
so I guess just for a background I mean
granted no one has had the advantage to
be a participant in those calls but you
know we've worked with our civil trying
to navigate that access perspective um
you know outlining specifically the key
points that have come from the other uh
the other residents in the area so you
know
it it would be very difficult to
impossible to be able to get an
elimination elimination yes um but
further softening I think is than than
the suggestion or the recomendation okay
so let's uh let's focus on thank you
very much what do you wantan to Madam
share what do you want to do could I
make a comment or is that are you like a
fire marshall or you're just a resident
I just wanted to respond to what that
gentleman said okay that's not really
appropriate I'm sorry I'm sorry no but
we would have to let everyone in the
audience respond to every person that
came and and and commented so I'm sorry
but that's not it's not um that's not
how this
works no because then I have to let
every other person who raises their hand
and wants to come up and respond to
something that was said so I'm sorry
I've just
it's the time for you to um give your
comment was
earlier okay yeah that start there Mr
Scott can you please continue actually
one more
14
okay so let's get into the building
um another concern I have with this
transition between the two buildings is
the second floor residence here and the
parking garage um all of these cars are
going to go head in and point their
lights into this building I think in the
section I saw a crash wall in the
architecture so if you can go to the
building section and I know we're at a
uh I would call a preliminary level when
we talk about building sections so I'll
let the applicant if you could zoom into
the top section right
there so on the
second second floor of the garage I'm
seeing what I'm assuming is cable rail
potentially um the first floor lights
don't bother me because that's going to
hit this wall and be blocked but here
this is much more of a concern to me
because these all of these cars the 50
so or how many cars there are as they
come and go are going to be shining
lights into these apartments which I
think we need to look at how that
addressed on that facade one I'm sure
that's probably a code issue but also
and again I think it's either a solid
wall or not but then the height than
that I know you have ventilation issues
but I think it sounds like looks like
you have plenty of open air on this
garage from both sides that you probably
will meet that code requirement but I
think that's going to be something that
I need you to really pay attention
to um and and we need to make sure that
doesn't
happen uh I had a question I came up and
it was in one of my notes about is there
a sec is this a secure
garage no so no no go no shutters are
going up and down and and the noise
that's related to that so no shutters
okay and then uh and I think this is
just a quick answer is all trash on the
east side so there's no trash trucks
coming through this alley there there is
trash on both sides of building so we
have trash trucks driving down this
two-lane
road so that's a can we go to the site
plan please so I have a concern with
that I I know in apartment complexes uh
that's kind of a given especially on a
site that's dense like this um but I
have a concern for the residents on in
the Condominiums uh where those TR
trucks are loud so I think we just need
to and I need to kind of focus in a
little bit exactly where those trash
bins are uh and the backing up that's
going to happen so if you could kind of
walk us through that process and where
what that's happening we can um
uh give me just a floor plan of the
parking garage is
probably floor plan of the parking
garage
please um deeper in the
set yeah one one more that this did come
up at the one of the zoning yeah
but yeah so on each floor we have cores
we have elevator core elevator core
elevator core we have NE adjacent to
elevator core we have trash receptacles
shoots and so forth so we have U Mand
doors to pull out and pick up um there's
not a a backup and and grab it's it's
pull them out pull pick them up move on
yeah so they're gonna they're gonna pull
in maybe from the south come up pull out
the trash PS load them up dump them over
the maintenance the maintenance guy will
be pulling the trash can rolling the
trash cans out to the drive aisle so
that the trash truck can then pick them
up and uh dump them then he'll have to
roll them back in so they're gonna be
smaller carts yeah smaller carts so that
it's not the big heavy not gonna be a
lot of back not gonna a lot of backing
uh because that's you know obviously
that's a big concern with noise so uh I
know that uh you're splitting them and
that that's I'm assuming that that that
scale with this many units that's almost
a daily pickup so privatized trash I
don't know if that's been calculated at
this point we have not calculated that
yeah but looking at the size of the
I think there's two different locations
three carts in each as far as um and
then there's also in the in the Hudson
right there in the corner by the
stairwell correct another trash room so
they'll be coming here trash
trash okay trash
needs so I think getting additional
information as we kind of move through
this on what the ownership plans on
doing with I know the rooms are there uh
if you're pushing carts out they can't
be that large so I get it just to we've
shared that with the Alexander folks in
in the compactor system that was there
intentionally brought that into the
garage itself if you recall originally
was it was remote yes um with a larger
compactor system that would have which I
I I I appreciate the trash is coming
into the building correct uh and I
appreciate that there's no backing up
because that can be the most annoying
and and we I think it's originally and
is need to be Revisited just to confirm
but think we were expecting two days a
week a pickup okay from that because
it's each each uh trash area has its own
internal compactor system so even on the
on the east side of the building it had
separate compactors and those would be
operated by um you know the management
company uh and just for you know another
concern I I've heard multiple times in
the city of Bexley I believe rumpy runs
4:30 in the morning Frank has M
mentioned it multiple times he's woken
up by every week um th this program
because the way it's set up is a private
system prived and and we can schedule
that and I think we've committed to make
sure that happens during the day is that
a conversation that's having with the
Alexander to at leing we shared it with
Mr gross okay so and and at his
committee meeting yeah that's great I
mean I think that's important to and
certainly to provide it to the group
came up in the very the original
preliminary discussion at Bap and as
result there's been some very proactive
work on these um trash compactors rather
than
remote and I think that's evident right
yeah and I think as long as that is
being you know we're we're we're
sensitive to those issues and and
working with the neighbors on that type
of a a noise thing um another question I
had and this is well overall um and we
we we've talked about this packet and
and the thoroughness of trying to
communicate a design uh and and you've
heard our appreciation in that because
we we do see a variety of those on this
board um but one thing that is lacking
and it's at the stage of this design I
guess but um you know we have renderings
and they're they're kind of they've been
softened from the original ones uh but
they're not a really a single note a key
or a material specifically as a product
and a manufacturer and a color selection
um so obviously this is a long long
process uh we're going to see this again
um but I I we're going to you know kind
of a a mandate lately on all siiz
projects um is that those are clearly
represented in the documents and I'm I'm
sure we will see that but the I want to
expand on that a little bit because of
the complexity and the size of this
building um we're going to pay a you
know a lot of attention to the details
of the transition of the different
materials and the windows and um and and
because it's those details that will
really make this a quality product and
it's really just being able to quantify
that with you as the architect so that's
going to be part of my recommendation as
this moves forward or or how it moves
forward and then the last question is is
actually for the city um we have a bunch
of balconies uh we don't have a project
at this scale with balconies in Bexley
that I'm aware of um and I didn't know
what the ordinance was
for the enforcement of what can be
stored on your balcony because I I one
of my concerns is these
balconies I I think there could be
limitations placed uh for aesthetic
reasons because I believe we even got
into that down at the Park View and main
building where even the shades you know
having all same color Shades so that
it's unified so if there's something
that's concerning well it's it's not an
architectural design I think it's a
long-term M you know management of you
know renters and what they put on their
balconies and I mean might be something
different for the smaller ones as
compared to like maybe the more yeah the
Juliet's not worried about at all and I
just wasn't sure what there was in our
uh the city guidelines or um enforcement
for that because I think this
is Yeah well yeah no no
grills why I say that is this project is
introducing those and I want to make
sure that as a city we uh that thinks
thinks about that and and and make sure
that this is maintained no matter what
happens with this it's maintained and uh
there's some enforcement maybe that we
need to look at for for that so that
it's not trash
and other things that's
all I will pick up on that because I
actually had a note about the balconies
also um are they drawn at about three
foot deep is that what I'm seeing
or um let's start on the uh on the west
side of the building
I Scott
is
yes the ones along Main Street the ones
along Main Street are are about three to
four feet deep um and then the ones as
you turn the corner in the main uh
massing along Main Street those are
still deeper um these longer ones
they're step Al balconies um they're
really they're they're only probably a
foot a foot and a half deep um and then
the ones that are inset in the brick in
the brick right there in the center well
can we we're we're on west elevation
yeah so that one is more of a well
that's a step all balcony so foot and a
half and then we have some Juliet true
Juliet balconies which are just a faux
balcony that isn't a balcony at all it's
just it's just a ledge that with with
with a
rail with a working door that open yeah
yeah so it has a sliding door so you get
the air circulation but yeah y okay okay
yeah because I also was concerned about
that um uh only because I was just in
the city where all these balconies had
their own treatments added for more
privacy and things like that and I just
was curious what the city can do to keep
this as clean as possible
I I don't believe you've had a problem
with the Alexander whether there's a
limitation although those are all
covered where these are more exposed so
right right and I guess if there's
anything you can do as part of the
design um you know just I I
would I'm just concerned about that you
know that they don't become junky
looking with grills and there's also um
so along the back we have those two
larger balconies those are associated
with resident units so those are larger
those
are prime uh outdoor spaces for those
apartments and then we have up on the
sixth floor along the along Main Street
at the front that's also a large
um Paris balcony up there as well for
those that serves the clubhouse excuse
me that the balcony that serves the
clubhouse no the ones at the very top of
the sixth floor oh at the sixth floor I
see yes okay and then yeah at the third
floor we have a large closet deck that
that serves the clubhouse
yes so those would be
resident yeah that those are larger
associated with those particular
resident units but the honor certainly
put limitations and and I think that's
that's not a privy of this board it's
just this I don't know if it's a zoning
issue that we can recommend for them to
consider because this is kind of a you
know however this ends up being is is is
a new new product that's on Main Street
so exactly I think as a city I want to
make sure that it's maintained it's not
only for people driving by but the
residents that have to look at it every
day
exactly um and after that then uh I
think there have been some really smart
things brought up some things I I did
note and some others that I did not but
um some of the things that Mr Hyer
talked about with um and I believe I
said this in the last meeting with
pushing you to do the sixth floor I
expected there to be more Pockets more
cut routes of the building um just to
help in the massing it was never my
intention that you were going to put
more units into the building um and so I
still think that there needs to be some
relief there um some give back to the
whether it's to the Alexander um or to
the people on brighten I think there
needs to be some give backs there for
for that sixth floor I I do still
believe that is the right thing to do
the sixth floor I think that will have
the least amount of
um uh infringement on any of the
buildings especially the Alexander
because it's pushed so far um to the
South so anything that you can do to try
to give us some Pockets or some relief
on the west um and and the north part of
the building I'm I'm hoping that there's
still more to come on that
so um and I I too even when I look at
your renderings I don't I don't believe
you can really do what you're showing
for the trees there and that was
always uh one thing that I thought we
were getting was trees Big Trees on both
sides of that road and I think that will
go a long way to kind of give you a
buffer between those two buildings that
will be looking at each other and you
know possibly one balky uh looking into
another so I hope that there will still
be some look at that to look at that and
see what you can do to try to get us
substantial trees there um to give us a
better bu offer between those two
buildings
so okay that is all I have is there
anything else that you would like to
comment back and what you
heard but be it from board members or
from audience
members um I mean I I don't think we
have uh I mean I don't have objections
to studying other things but we think
that what we have presented and what we
have put on paper here is um is the
project that we think is appropriate and
so we respect your comments um I think
we we believe that what we have have
developed is is the right response for
for the site and for this property um I
would say that the number of units I
know that's been a comment from a number
of people uh we we have we did remove
things in these corners and that was
part of of what went up here this was
brought into the fold as part of the
north elevation carve out so again I
mean we had units that we cobbled and
and and took out so the the the
difference in the number of units wasn't
to us a call to change in and and and
work on the side of pieces I think that
the parking garage itself has to be
considered about how that parking garage
Works efficiently and if you go to this
this the the floor plan for the the the
parking garage one more time for me
I think what is really really that's
this is good and go back one more I
think what is really important to
understand is that we don't have the
ability to carve out on the ground
floors that that piece so we can we just
don't have the ability to undulate this
facade based on the parking demands of
the building and that has to do with how
many are being used for the public good
and for the building itself so we have
always shown this being as as a as a as
an efficient use of that space so we
believe that the most the best use is to
to carry that vertically so um I think
as far as materiality studying whether
that brick on the first facade here on
the elevation goes to ground I think
that's something we can look at I think
we can look at definitely how these
head- in parking spaces affect um that
piece I think that's a a very good
comment I think that's something we can
definitely uh continue to study so um
Jason unless you have anything else I
think we would we would turn it back
over to you so
okay so at this point then um if you're
asking us to put it to a vote it would
be a recommendation to go to um B app
which I understand their meeting is
tomorrow um we have a couple different
ways of doing that and one would be if
we we could just take a straight vote as
the project as it is um or we can put in
uh the comments that we have made
tonight and when it goes to Bab then
they know that we still want it back so
that we can look at making adjustments
to the building um and we would expect
that some of the things that we have
stated tonight would be the things that
we would be looking at so I think you
can we can get this back and still keep
working on it but I think from what I
heard from the board here there's still
some tweaks to be made we would request
the recommendation with conditions with
with the knowledge that we' need to come
back and work through some of the
concerns that you've raised realizing
that there's there's still some areas
that we can improve um and try to
address the concerns that you've raised
so um certainly respect those comments
I'm not going to commit that we can fix
them all but we'll do the best that we
can to to get to the point where we're
all equally unhappy but yet happy how it
proceeds so okay so and so just so that
the audience understands how this works
um we put our list of um recommendations
or um changes that we want we send it to
Bap they get to beat the project up
again and then BEC when we request that
it comes back to us um whatever changes
they make to it which could be affected
by parking studies or tree in public
garden or there could be a lot of
changes that they want to make before it
ever comes back to us and that at that
point we would reassess the project and
see um what we what this board thinks it
still needs in order to get approved be
app if they if they remand it back to us
that means that they don't they're
giving us the final say okay so um I
know this is a long drawn out process
but I think I I think I feel it's best
for it to go to Bap because if Bap hates
this project we need to know that
now at the last meeting I thought the
legal reprid said that there there was
no
guarantee send it back to you there is
no guarantee Bap does have the
final gu and put the recommendations and
just like you heard the client does not
have to do it and Zoning could approve
it you guys never see it again and this
is what gets built I need you to say
that to the audience that could happen
the jurisdiction of this building and
everything about it including the
certificate of appropriateness which is
the certificate relating to the
architecture of the building only
nothing else is all within the
jurisdiction of the board of zoning and
planning um for a lot of reasons but um
there are sometimes an architectural
review if it's a residential property or
other certain instances where they have
final say but in on the Main Street in
the Main Street district and when
variances are involved or conditional
uses or other factors um and
particularly on the main in the Main
Street District it's only a
recommendation from from landscape from
architecture jurisdiction is entirely
within the Border zoning and planning so
they could decide for
themselves but but but I will say that
has never happened okay and if it did I
think he would see most of this board
resign okay because we take it seriously
so we don't send it to them thinking
that they're going to override us we
send it to them so that they can send it
back and so I will state that publicly
and I believe all of these board members
feel the same that if they overrode us
then none of us would be happy and and
most of us would resign over that so
um all building AR there's a lot of
things that we talk about trees and so
forth so is anyone on the board
landscape architecture are you all
building there there is a separate tree
commission but there's been a lot of
things that were talking about trees
that are in the plans that are really
notable I just want to see if there was
someone on the board that St that but
well those aren't architectural issues
typically those are Bap issues um so
this board would I mean they they give
their opinion because it affects their
vision of the property but it's not
really an architectural issue for the
most part except I think in the Main
Street District if it is in the public
right away there might be a little
exception for that I don't recall but
that's typically not something that this
board does and just for clarification
even if this board voted no for the
recommendation to Bap it would still go
to Bap right and they could override the
vote the no vote also because it's their
jurisdiction that's
right to yes regardless because the
final decision the decision maker is
typically Bexley follows this property
because Bap values the opinion of
Architectural Review because they they
have the expertise but it's bap's
decision to make so it goes through this
process here first only as a
recommendation whether it's a
recommendation for or against or no
recommendation it goes from here forward
it is up to the applicant actually to
control when when it goes to be app and
it's a recommendation to control the
timing of that if the applicant um wants
it to move forward it will move forward
irrespective um they've asked for it to
be move forward today and with um
conditions um of the board so they have
that right as the applicant to do it and
the board has the obligation to follow
that
request whatever their recommendation
might be I just had one last comment for
the record I want to acknowledge the
tremendous effort that the board members
have put on this project they are
professionals they are excellent
Architects and they've given a lot of
their personal energy and time to this
project and regardless how anybody votes
tonight I think we are really lucky as a
city to have them
participating and it whether it's
approved or not at least it's better um
design-wise than it was and um you how I
feel about the the voting no
uh or probably voting no I I intend to
vote no on a recommendation because I
think we're too far we don't have
materials we don't have specifics on the
design we have a lot of open questions
that you all have raised and with with a
with a house we wouldn't approve it with
this level of open issues and this is
way more important than one house in the
neighborhood I agree Joan but our the
the problem is we could we can work on
this for the next three or four months
before we get where we're comfortable in
it and then if we send it to beap and
they say no then we have all wasted all
of that time agreed but it is going to
go to Bap yeah so there there needs to
be a process where Bap can weigh in and
beap may tell them that they come to us
and then they have to go back to beap so
we could still be months away from
having a final design but at some point
I feel like we need beap to weigh in to
tell us whether they're going to approve
a six story whether they're going to
approve this Mass like you know
there comes a point we need maybe I
didn't understand that is that can't
happen unless we make a recommendation
for
beap well I asked that before and they
they they did not they had an informal
hearing on it and and heard the audience
and what they you know their comments
about it but when I asked for it to go
to beap at the last meeting I was told
that they can't have another informal
meeting on it and that they would have
to vote on it and so we said all right
well let's get one more step into the
process before we send it to them but at
some point we need to get them to weigh
in we there's a new variable here and
that's the six story variants and if we
don't get it to beap we're going to go
round and round in circles here I mean M
it's painful and we may be here for
another hour but my my suggestion is
that we recommend it to Bap with a very
long list of conditions if we give a
negative recommendation to be up there's
no direction and then there's not even a
there's not even I mean one of the
conditions I would suggest is a remand
back right to ARB I've done this for 23
years here they've never not respected a
remand back to ARB if we just do a flat
vote and not recommend it and they move
on anyway because it's their right
there's no parameters Bap doesn't have
any guidance from us there's no record
of the guidance I mean I I think the
smartest thing for everybody is to get
it to beap my guess is that it it's
probably not going to go through it beap
the first try
either Karen can share the concerns
brought up in this meeting that maybe
have not been discussed at this zoning
board chime in and require further
conditions and remand and just to
clarify because I know this is new for a
lot of people for some people it's not
this is a very fluid iterative process
there's not we don't shut the door here
and none of us go to report what was
said here negative and positive and it's
all going to be in a I mean when this
meeting is over tonight if we do a
recommendation with a list of
conditions Katherine and I will be
working on those conditions to have a
the recorded decision made by tomorrow
so can I ask for another clarification
if this board unanimously voted no for
the recommendation it still goes to Bap
but in that case there are no conditions
that go to Bap from our board
that's my
point this saying we're open to
something
else but this no could you guys say
that if you don't feel that this is the
right V for this project is that an
option also because if you vote Yes is
that giving the appearance of yeah we're
going to go with it with 12 or 13
changes changes no I mean your point is
very valid in that if if there is a yes
vote with a list of conditions there is
some core of what is presented to us
tonight that is acceptable but I I'm
hearing that that's probably the case
for this board that's not to say that
there isn't going to be a lot of changes
I mean it sounds to me like there's
going to have to be a lot of work on the
North elevation and the west elevation
um but but the footprint the you know
the overall floor floor
plate it is probably going to remain the
same well I'm not sure that's true I'm
not sure I'm comfortable with not just
the treatment and the details of the
west elevation but I'm not sure I'm not
comfortable with the west elevation at
all and I don't know what the solution
is because it's complicated I understand
the footprint of the of the parking lot
but I do have some concern about a yes
vote that
it um we have it feels like to me we
have
less uh control on the big picture
issues I know we can work through the
details I've seen this board do that
many many times
but the the there are there
are it's not just details
it's um it's not just a matter of the
treatment on the brick it's not just a
matter of How deep the B compes are it's
it's not the trees it's some bigger
issues I don't disagree at all but we've
got to get the variants clarified by
beap in order to move ahead they're
looking for guidance before they make
any
decision that's fair with the REM and I
I think the concerns that have been
brought up tonight not only by the board
but by the public you know in terms of
the architecture the the footprint the
indentations the Landscaping the scale
and massing the lights uh of cars you
know screening the base I mean there's
so many conditions there that need to
come back to us the reduction of units
you know that you know we we had asked
uh for the stepping back at the North
End for a long time I think all that
still needs to come back and if the if
the board of zoning and planning says
you know okay we understand where ARB
wants to go with this and we are going
to allow for the six floor variant for
that front Main Street level and now all
those conditions that ARB had we think
that they're valid and so go back to ARB
is that I mean that's the ideal outcome
right from this otherwise it goes to Bap
with no recommendations regardless and
and uh and then they can make whatever
decision they want with no help from us
how are the uh
recommendations um submitted to beap are
you reading them out loud or is that
I'll be reading them out loud but
Katherine and I are going to be writing
them so
as can can one of the can one of the
conditions be
simply you know wide open that sort of
says and other discussion points that
come up in future
meetings I know
that's a little out there but instead of
these conditions looking like a
checklist oh we address that we address
that we address that can it be a little
more open-ended well because sometimes
changes create new problems right so
then we yeah so if we just have a
checklist
then and they solve one problem subject
to satisfaction of the board and then on
here the particulars but it's also
subject to our final approval and and
we've done that a lot we we the the
final the starting condition is always
subject to final review and approval by
ARB back to ARB for subject man back to
ARB for final design and approval yeah
that's pretty wide open yeah and I I'll
speak to um because you know I sat on B
app and the way they present to be app
you get a clear indication as to what's
going on here um you know anytime that
we would vote on something there it was
you know whether it's a residence or
whatever um that they really did a good
job of demonstrating what you guys
discussed um on this side um so I think
they're going to they're going to get
that picture and I you know I sat in the
first informal meeting on that board
before moving over here and I I think
the same concerns about this project um
and what it is and where it's going to
go exist on that board also um I'd be
surprised you know if they approve the
variance on the first time through um
that's not to say that they won't
eventually approve it um but I think
it's I think it's quite a long shot to
go in there and put this in front of
them and say
thumbs up I think they'll make some
comments and push back a little bit but
that's that's an opinion that I have I
don't have any I have toe reasoning
comment about you know the idea of
increasing the height was to accomplish
some things and we're not seeing that we
got tiny amounts of it we got a cut in
the front and we got two clipped Corners
in the back but um I think we could do
more and still keep the the units where
where they were before and um and it
could it could be a better project which
I think is the goal of everyone in this
room is to build the best project we
possibly can so well do we know the net
result on the units once they raised it
and then they did all the cuts what was
what was the net gain or net loss I
don't remember oh they gained
30 13 13 I'm sorry thank you
13 13 and I don't know if some one
bedrooms became three bedrooms and
things like that too I I didn't go back
can physically count them but um it was
never my intention to make more units or
bigger units it was just to try to get
more Cuts in the building right
so okay so um that but yeah that I'm not
sure if there's density limits however
that density impacts the number of
parking spaces that are required so they
have to keep that in mind when they do
make so did the number of parking spots
also increase with the number of units
increasing they'd have to get a variance
if it doesn't meet code so whatever they
do is gonna have to me
code and there was the applicant answer
that did the number of parking spots
increase
also no the parking did not increase the
parking did not increase
okay okay Ryan one more
question
does the project meet code for parking
requirements they are requesting a
variance they are requesting a variance
for parking and the height we will be
requesting a variance for parking um it
is the underlying zoning district is Mu
which requires one space per unit the M
the Main Street District actually
requires one and a half spaces per unit
if you use the MU zoning then we would
we would be spot on with the parking
that's required what what's your
ratio what's your final ratio in this
design parking per unit I I don't know
what it is off hand okay I really don't
I mean it would it would have been half
the space per unit that were sh no I
just didn't know where where you ended I
don't know if you know the it would be
one space per unit one one per unit okay
plus the parking for the Hudson plus the
parking for retail and yeah I know
there's other components thank
you okay so can we how do we create our
list of what we want to say to Bab I'm
writing for taking notes because I told
her that we could start she the
conditions motion that includes all the
conditions yeah yes seems like you might
want to discuss it among yourselves
first
yeah Karen can you as you summarize
maybe summarize those and we can add or
discuss them before we motion yep
hold on and when these are presented to
the zoning board they do ask here in the
details on what the concerns are so it
does get
explained okay question clarification
sure i' like to know what the
recommendations are so
will oh sorry yes my apologies will
there be a comment from this board about
the appropriateness of the mass and the
density and the scale of the project and
if so what will that comment be well we
make individual comments so like you
you're saying about the mass we're
asking them to to do cutouts and clip
the building so yes we make comments
about mess but they're more specific
than just the building's too big okay
thank you it'll be given through the
conditions thank you so in other words
you know if we're looking for Less units
on the back and more cutouts that's a
comment on the massing seems like a lot
of problems would be solved if it was a
smaller building
right well and that's what we're that's
what our comments will
reflect okay how would you like me to do
this I can just you know generally I
have the application should be remanded
back to ARB for final certificate of
appropriateness materials need to come
back to ARB with
samples
um the
uh and and not even just with samples
but we may ask for some mockups on
site um the
headlights SC um screening should be
addressed in the parking lot the
reworking of green space and Landscape
on the West Drive should be considered
should be
addressed in order to keep substantial
trees yep to have West facade the
designit hold on hold on hold on you're
giving me
more parking garage headlight screening
should be addressed um rework the green
space and Landscape on the West Side
Drive to allow substantial
plantings and
soften the
landscape
um re re
reduction um of the height on the North
elevation of
height on
North I'm I'm gonna read them all back
we're just kind of
brainstorming can we have silence please
so that everyone can hear what's being
said reduction of height on north and
west
elevations the pl the floating facade I
think that goes with I think you can
almost say that the north and west
elevations need more work or something
yeah and generalize that
knowing that we want to bring you know
brick down and capture the base of the
building or something like that
yeah I think we just need to be very
clear that the west elevation and the
north elevation are not approved as
currently
designed Le that's what I'm hearing from
all of us crafting something hold on
nothing we're just recommending to go
toie okay
how about north and west elevations
should be reworked to to lessen massing
bring um brick to the to the
ground bring better connection to
ground screening
of
garage and more consistent use of
materials she's gonna read it back read
it
[Music]
back okay here's what I have so
far
the
the application shall be remanded back
to ARB for final certificate of
appropriateness the applicant should
come back with samples and mockups of
materials the headlight screening there
should be screening in the parking for
headlights reworking of the Green Space
Landscape on the west drive to have
substantial plantings and soften the
landscape uh reduction of height on
north and west elevations the north and
west elevation should be reworked to
lessen the massing bring better
connection to the ground screen the
garage and use more uh a use of more
consistent
materials keep going if that's what I've
got so
far I have the garage screening on the
north and west
elevations will you be considering on
having the parking garage ground
I mean that would be the applicant's
decision to come back with a different
design we can't we're what we're doing
is giving recommendations on the design
as it as it right right
about more building yeah I mean the the
west elevation having more indents as we
had discussed even if it's above the
parking level right to have a step to
have other step backs above the parking
level
um the substantial Greening of that West
Drive would help substantially if we can
get good growth in there but then we
still want I think we still want to have
more indents even if they're at the
residential level
yeah is there any comment about the
balconies I forget who there was some
discussion about that I I think that the
balcony for me would be grouped into the
material details for the Architectural
Review my comment was specifically
related to what the city policy would be
because of this kind of an apartment
building next to a condominium building
um if there was any ordinances for the
city for maintaining clean balconies so
uh it was more of a question so it
wasn't anything related to the okay
perfect and then requirement the um the
outdoor dining and but I think that's
going to carry over through the process
until they get the final I think we
should put anything in here outdoor
dining to cover
adjustments should come before the
board uh the retail signage is that us
weren't youo concerned about yeah I
would have well no they they address
that I was just I heard a comment that
it was a canopy earlier and I didn't
they they address that for me I thought
when they said canopy I thought fabric
okay
so that will be part of ARB I mean of
Bap sorry we're we're I know there's a
little bit of a fuzzy line but we're
trying to stick with design elements so
since it was my comment I I'll address
that um the applicant has done a lot of
to move the trash into the building and
my comment was more to the operations of
that trash removal as it relates to the
property of Alexander so um outside of
that it's a BAP issue and site planning
issue but I think since it's within the
building that's why I brought it up Mr
Scott you're also your comment about um
adding screening at the north parking
lot at the north side of that and not
against the building is that not us or
is that a comment that can go to the I
would love to throw it in there as a
recommendation to the planning uh site
planning and Landscape commission but uh
well if the trees are too close to the
building that seems to be an
architectural issue it is but my comment
specifically is related to the north
side and seeing to you know densify some
of that yeah which is
landscap
maintain that's true yeah so that would
be a condition I'm
sure do you want me to put in here is
that for if the Landscaping can't be
maintained if they're talking about a
property line issue then no
okay
um I think you tell
me um as you said as the attorney I
think it would be good to add north and
west elevations should be reworked to
lessen massing as a tradeoff for the
sixth floor to show that we're
supporting the variance if
that well it's not really within the
authority of this group to support or
not
support but we can say I agree but we
can still say it but we should but it
was our idea from an architectural
perspective the six floor works
architecturally if there are other uh
reductions in mass and height right
that's that's that's exactly right and
that's why it's based on our design
review you that you
guys that's my that's my point yeah I'm
trying to keep away from reduced units
because not that I don't support reduced
units but there are ways to make less
massing
well that's we we don't have
testimony
anything
else U miss stower any other comments
that you want any other
no Mr Scott is there anything else you
want to
add no
Mr Hall is there anything else you would
like to add to the list
no bill is there anything else you'd
like to add uh
Etc no thank
you
and yes if we could read the findings of
fact and decision of the
board can I clarify one of your comments
before you do that or you want me to do
it after no no do it now the the request
for materials selection and and review I
we are 100% on board with we have no
problem with that I think that the
request for a mockup frankly that's a
construction item we were happy to do
details as part of our process but we're
not going to do physical construction of
materials that's a that's a that's a
request that I have personally never had
a as far of an our AR we've done it on
other buildings here we did it on the
white building um where we wanted to see
what the brick and mortar looked like
and they brought us a small sample so
okay it's related it's not a it's not
physical mockup that we go see on site
it's you bring bring the samples in and
if you can put them on a board right so
that's it's a it's really a
board a nice board
nice the findings of fact and decision
of the board for application number bc-
23-23 for property located at 2200 East
Maine the architecture review board
recommends demolition of an existing
building and replacement of a new
six-story mixed jued building which
includes housing commercial and
parking with the following
conditions okay here it
goes that the materials come back to ARB
with samples and
boards that the headlights screening in
the parking garage is
addressed the green space and Landscape
on the West Drive be reworked give
substantial plantings and softened
soften the
landscape a reduction of height on the
north and west
elevations that the let's see north and
west elevations should be reworked to
lessen Ming bring better connection to
the ground screening of garage and more
consistent use of
materials that the west elevation should
have more variation in the plane of the
facade and the
height the outdoor dining for the I'm
just going to say restaurant because it
could change to a different restaurant
outdoor dining adjustments should be
reviewed by the
ARB that the ARB supports the addition
of a six floor architecturally to allow
flexibility and Lessing the overall Mass
think that's a good way to say it um and
lastly the application be remanded back
to ARB for final certificate of
appropriateness
okay do the applicants understand the
findings of fact as they have been
read and so would you like me to go
ahead and ask for a vote
Yes Kathy will you call the role motion
Mr Hall oh wait I'm sorry we need to
have a
motion very important thing CR her makes
the motion I'll
second
higher Mr Hall yes Mr H yes Mr Scott
yes Mr stord yes Adam Tony
yes okay so we're all clear the motion
was to approve with the following
conditions is that correct yes to to
recommend to be that recommend yes not
approve
okay so um you will be going to Bap
tomorrow and uh hopefully we see you
back thank
you very
much