foreign
I know now everybody wants to do the
opportunities
foreign
let me call to order the uh June 2023
meeting of the Bexley Board of zoning
and planning
uh
Ms Rose if you'd call the roll please
here here
here
I am here as well all right and we have
a quorum
did we have an opportunity to review the
minutes of the May Meeting those of you
who were here
I don't think they've been sent out they
were not posted you haven't seen them
yet okay
technological issue okay so we'll
we'll just defer that to the next
meeting but remember that we have to
approve the
main minutes at on the agenda for next
month's meeting then
all right uh we have an opportunity for
the general public to make comments
about the operation of the bezap and uh
I don't see too many members of the
general public here other than people
who are quite familiar with the
operation or the person who's here for
the case I assume that tonight's case so
um
uh am I correct that there are no
General comments from the general public
thank you very much we'll move on to the
uh
old business is there any old business
before the board this evening
[Music]
members of the staff no I don't think so
either new business
there's one case tonight which is an old
timer
all times low I think
uh B case bcap 23-15 involving 2559 Fair
Avenue the applicant is Louise Cruz but
the owner it looks like who is present
is Stephanie ship the request is to seek
a variance to allow a Pavilion in the
side yard of a corner lot at the point
corner of cassingham and Fair Avenue
come on up and grab a place at the mic
and the first order of business I have
to swear you in
so please state your name
Stephanie do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you're going to give this
evening will be the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth thank
you very much
Kathy tell us a little bit about this
from the staff perspective please
I did yeah
property
president
of the capacity
property passing ham Avenue
no
just just being clear
located
at four Heights there's probably a real
amount of writing a little change along
the west inside of this property which
streams at a distance six foot high
defense property hasn't used
the changing very whatever apps to the
screen there are two of the design
considers in the application one is
finished together so if someone would
most likely have less of a visual impact
had
there's also the additional discussion
as to about space created in the
southwest corner we are will be
maintaining
onion
or perhaps the Wall Street or something
you can Center the vertical cam
of course weigh it on the highway height
and position another Pavilion before
deter the commissary experience is
appropriate
um Tara and I have had a discussion and
we've also shared the third design with
the applicant that shows a
Harbor type structure that actually has
a functioning movers that also or
exposed to the top or maybe however from
a visual perspective that has less of an
impact
you want me to talk about that a little
bit so this is the case that um did not
go to the Architectural Review Board
because a typical application for this
would just come through Kathy and I this
is this this case is like kind of like
the poster child for why we are studying
Corner Lots Frontage and Frontage so
this is technically kind of Stephanie's
both backyard and side yard
um so we didn't take it to architecture
View Board because it's really about a
zoning issue so if the placement is okay
with all of you we have talked through
some alternate designs that might bring
the the that would bring the roof line
down a little bit it's an on-site in
that I don't think Kathy talked about
this but if you want to I I I can also
talk about it it's it has a big
elevation difference from the sidewalk
it's also heavily screened I took a lot
of pictures just this morning so you can
kind of see that's my garage sorry
um there
I'm just gonna run through these really
quickly can we see that picture of your
garage again yeah I was showing somebody
that actually
yes it's right here
correct and I have more pictures like
this I took as I was kind of driving
around from every angle
this is where it would be in this back
corner does the fence stay
um
you won't be able to see it from Fair
Avenue not
probably more visible than passing here
but it's still had already screened
um
yeah yes and those Arborvitae are quite
large on them yeah
isn't there a tall Pavilion like right
across the street yes
my concern at German architectural
perspective and its effect on neighbors
is not at all the placement there or
having it there it's just the
sensitivity to making it aesthetically
blend in with the house more which is
why
um Stephanie's been really open to
hearing other ideas there is one that
was approved I don't know if it came to
a border just through us I think it did
come forward that Kathy had alluded to
um at the risk of Designing on on a
board which we shouldn't be doing I did
there's this
new design that has come through a new
company that's come through US several
times it looks great it almost looks
like a wood Arbor it there it's on it's
at 200 Ashbourne if anybody wants to see
it installed it's a an electronic it has
louvers you can open and close it so I
threw that out there as a potential but
um I think that the applicant has shown
a lot of flexibility in terms of design
it's just for you it's more of a zoning
issue and if it's okay with you in terms
of the variance
um given where it is and the
um the trees and how it's shielded then
I think I don't want to speak for the
applicant but I think she's very willing
to work on a design that is a little
more subtle
um what worries me about this one is
although still pretty low and what's
confusing is it's indicated that 16 feet
in height now the top of that fence is
six feet so right here it looks a little
bit out of first
um
and that's why I push it because I found
different stuff and then the height of
the art of writings
for the arborvitaes
is
a question sure
why I mean there are people who go to
Costco and put up these type of
structures in their backyard without
getting so many board approval correct
so it goes to Karen about it right right
but I
um it's about the size it's about a
corner lot
so if this were not a corner lot we
would not be having this discussion all
right correct
and why I mean I guess why are we more
concerned about the corner a lot and not
about the individual lots that about a
neighbor it's the way the code's written
kind of okay
so if some
if so bring it before this is
this board has the option to consider
modifications or uh maximum Heights or
you know it's kind of a trade-off if
they find it's it would be more
appropriate and would be all right
I mean is the underlying rationale
because there's just another street that
it can be seen from
but other than being hidden by the house
yes probably
and at the risk of sounding like I'm
advocating for the applicant which I'm
not this is your decision I'm just here
to help in the process you're just
curious I'm just here to help we can't
wait to help
um but I just I just want to make sure
all of you know that this is like this
has been a common theme lately and as a
result the mayor has put together a a
work group to look at corner Lots
it's not unique to this situation
yeah I mean I'm I'm fine with that I
wouldn't I wouldn't have a problem and
if we import I mean according to this
chart it says it's 13 feet 4 inches tall
so I wouldn't have a problem approving
it and just setting a condition on the
height and I also wouldn't have a
problem with staff approving the final
design if the design is still flexible
I'm I'd be fine with approving a maximum
height in staff approval of the final
design I think that's fair and with
regards to that corner area of
and do you want to swear in
oh oh you already sore okay
um
no
as long as it's green yeah I believe me
turns
it is
well that becomes something else is okay
yeah I was curious how that's
uh
yeah yes
but I agree
mission do you have anything else to add
to to the presentation here you know
what's the con let just give us an idea
what what you're wanting to accomplish
here how's that
just the
yeah so it's green yeah you can just
keep it on
just because
I go for my house
[Music]
yeah yeah
so is it going to look like what it
looks like in the rendering or what it
looks like in the snapshot with just a
gable roof on it and a wood structure
what's
I know we're not here to talk about
architecture I think that's
question yeah
um because it's shown both ways I think
it's important I mean
I guess we're looking I'm looking for
some comment I I would tend to go with
whatever's going to make it at 16 by 16.
it's that's a pretty big structure so
um you know I
you know I am concerned about what it
looks like
um you know for you and I think some of
the suggestions I made
um you know I in terms of the
relationship to the house and how it
fits with the architecture of the house
I think a
um a less ornate structure and something
that's probably a little more
contemporary
[Music]
um
this is like post and beam yeah is that
what it's going to look like is it post
and beam type of
that's yeah that's the picture here
oh there it is yeah
no that makes sense I they've got a
picture of it in here too no we yeah
we've got a picture of it of it here
been circled on there is 16 feet in
height which
now that that's a big roof you know
the one that's in the
that's a hip bruise that's a hip roof
that's a hip loose which makes it lower
but to Mr Hall's point it also makes it
heavier yeah not as
um as comp complementary to the existing
house right you know I I I like this
structure I think you know if you're
going to do a sunken pit and bring it
down well then you're only going to be
able to bring that that bottom beam down
you know to a fight a height of probably
eight feet so then you got to start you
know playing with the pitch of the roof
a little bit to bring it down even a
little further if that's what you're
going to do that's that's great because
I do think that the height of this
is is critical to the screening in terms
of what you see outside and how it feels
you know inside your backyard and
everything too
um
it's just that this whole side yard
front yard thing is really kind of a
nice really difficult to get your head
wrapped around it because this is
you know Corner casting him and fair
unfortunately you have two front yards
at the end of the day
um you know but recognizing that the I
think you have is the alley right there
too you have an alley
there's an edge yeah
then the alley right you can see a
picture of it here yeah that hedge on
the lower right
is separates
the alleys to the right yeah right I
think I even have more
and I I do
I do like the fact that that your your
back fence is higher than what you would
normally see so this this thing may not
poke up as much above it is is what it
may seem like it might
um
you live in one of the few homes and
actually you might be able to see it
from
yeah possibly yeah one of the probably
five homes I live in one of the other
five years probably see it from
we live right down the street
what would help me guide the
design choices is an absolute right
limit yeah from either the
I guess from the ground and then they
can decide how far they want to go
step down panel of those Graves best
panels that is
mm-hmm yeah right
so what have we done in the past like
why is that just dependent on
it's so it's completely independent and
the reason I laughed I'm laughing with
you
um is that this is why this this is
probably one of the hardest work groups
I've ever been on don't you think I mean
it's Carter's what we're groups that
we've ever had it's just a circular
discussion because every single property
is so unique and different
um
but how cars parking there as well so
they have to take them on a case-by-case
basis and understand what what's
impacted and we've had a lot of these
kind of cases and that have been before
you that have gotten variances fairly
easily for things like pools you know
that are in side yards on a corner lot
um but the I think it's the vertical
nature of this one it makes it a little
more yeah rigorous in our discussion and
as long as Kathy and I have some
guidelines with how tall we can help
guide the architecture I I completely
agree with Mr Hall on the two pictures
that this one seems appropriate
providing the roof is adjusted to the
right height so does something like a
flat you know the one that is on
Ashbourne that
I just I just gave you the address so
I'm sure you haven't had a chance to go
by but that's a possibility but the the
other one while the drawings are really
good to see how it's placed on the lot I
think they're a little it's a little
heavy of a structure
for for your house yeah the drawings the
one with the hip roof
um is your plan to do a metal roof on it
[Music]
yeah well that's
yeah that's going to come into play when
we start talking about height and then
on slopes that's what I just
you know kind of went through so
all right
so what did you know
okay
number to look at like the net picture
[Music]
I mean it's probably what 18 years
that's pretty high yeah so I mean like
that's kind of our
starting point and then we can kind of
go down from there right because I mean
that gives us an idea of height back
there
because we want it above that Second
Story Bridge
I think those are things like that are
relevant to take into consideration or
how the the screenian porch
is right here it'd be nice to know the
height that you have
that's what I was the height of a stone
in the back it would be nice no it
looked to be about 12 to 13 feet to me
just roughly
and that's kind of where my mind is is
that you know a height in the 12 to 13
feet range seems appropriate that's
eight foot to your being
another foot through structure then
another foot for slope
or a four feet per slope I think get you
there
um
[Music]
well
you're getting a feel for kind of the
commentary that you're hearing here and
sort of I I'm hearing that
something
that's 20 feet high is going to be too
high something that's in the 13 12 foot
range is going to be okay and
um
you know I think you you've done a
beautiful job with the three years on
the cassingham side they're very nice
and full beautiful
yeah yeah
and and the fence is fairly significant
too between the driveway and the
backyard and that will also because the
other consideration here I think has got
to be
you know noise from the from people down
in that living area and and how much
noise and chatter there is
um
might be an issue has there been any uh
commentary from the lady who lives
behind you
uh
if she been made aware of this I know
she's made aware of it because it's
within 25 feet I know she's aware
because I was taking pictures saying she
was out working in her yard
said I'm not taking a picture of you I'm
taking a picture of the film she's in
one of the pictures
she she didn't she didn't say oh I'm
gonna be there oh I object she didn't
say anything she didn't say anything
just said oh that's the house behind me
go right ahead and take a picture that
lady was here actually to
Voice or approval for the swimming pool
or the that pool that went in and the
fence that went in on casting him across
the street from cassingham from your
house
across the street and on Brentwood
actually
I mean she's not here tonight yeah no
she's not here that says a lot
yeah yeah yeah yeah I understand a lot
of times though we like to just say hey
does your next door neighbor have any
problems if you've gone to them and
asked them directly you know hey I'm
thinking about doing this that's a good
idea
I would think it would be this lady and
your next door neighbor on this side
that would be most affected by it the
other homans would be affected by it too
but not as much because your two years
are so good
over there
I think some of the advantage to the
South
is that you have your driveway as a
buffer and in the alley so there's a
nice separator there between you and the
neighborhood yeah
um I'm not going to tell you yeah I I
struggle with the whole 45 degree angle
and I'm sure you've looked at this 20
million times
um
and I you know I'm
and it just seems to me if if you could
take it you're not going to like this
comment but if you could take a couple
feet out of this if it doesn't have to
be so big that would help out
yeah if you could live with something
like that I don't think that should be
part of our recommendations but I think
you I think that's a consideration you
should take on
16 by 16 is is a big big structure
um so you're saying from the size of it
has to do with the design and how I'm
getting into the weeds here a little bit
more well that's that's one of the
reasons you're here yeah but in terms of
lot coverage and all that as I look at
this this is sort of like it's it's on
this angle which
um design wise I'm struggling with a
little bit but again it's it's your
backyard and I think you figured out the
float here but I think if you're going
to put it on that angle if it was just a
tad smaller
um and away from the house a little bit
then you're gonna get this you're going
to really start to feel
that open Gable end and the in the post
and being structure and the advantage of
that aesthetically
um you know right now it's it looks like
it's probably within 10 feet of the
corner of your house maybe a little bit
less so you're not going to really get
the perspective of looking at it you
know from far away it's just going to be
there and it's going to be on you as
soon as you come outside the house so I
think if you could I think 14 by 14 is
probably
is probably doable and that would get it
in there allow it to go a little further
back
and I think it would feel better on your
lot
at the end of the day too
and get the expert uh commentary here
from people who you're in the business
which is nice it's worth looking at
protagonal I don't know why you 've been
diagonal but the difference is having an
object in the landscape versus having
squared to the house
yeah
yeah yeah you'd have to do that yeah so
you're you're
thinking of when you come out your back
door you look over and you just see
these layers of things happening with
the TV and so forth versus if you rotate
it at 90 degrees
yeah I don't mind that I just need a
height percentage
and that's where I think if you made it
a little bit smaller I think it would it
would satisfy those goals for you
because I understand that that's one of
the first things I thought why isn't
this thing rotated so it's in line with
everything but then it it almost feels
like at that point I think with the way
you've got the layout going it's going
to start to feel like
here's an area and here's an area and
here's an area which is is okay but that
may not be what you want either
I think
um I think I feel a little bit like you
do like it feels like an object rather
than part of a yeah progression yeah
would would you be amenable to a uh if
we said it couldn't be any larger than
14 by 14.
yes so they I mean on on the sheet it's
listed as one of the sizes that's a
pretty customizable structure right
there that's an out of a box structure
so
yeah
well if you just like think about it and
look at it like
it's to just be one less trust for one
you know yeah if you two feet you know
and
and then keep the roof lower then it's
well the height on this chart for a 14
by 14 is 12 foot eight inches yeah
that's perfect yeah I think it solves
both both issues
so
okay so from a procedural standpoint
here we have a design picked out is that
the design we're looking at
well
and if we're squaring it off which where
would that opened end be facing does
that matter I mean I I personally would
be comfortable putting a condition
staying the size and the height and then
letting staff finalize
if she wants to change the design to the
one on ash is it on ashborne or she
wants to pick a different design I'm
fine with staff if everybody else is
it something I typically approve without
ever coming to a board it's the variance
that brings it here right right having
said that
and I like this design I I'm always
going to put out there the caveat thing
if I'm ever uncomfortable something I
will say I need to bring it back yeah I
think that's a good way to go and I
think if we give her the size and the
maximum height then the rest of it can
be tweaked so the original that was on a
diagonal was shown with the corner of
that structure at the property line for
the fences so are we granting a variance
at 25 foot variance or is there any
setback
suggested we haven't only discussed that
if it's squared up how how far from the
property line would it be that you
wouldn't know that answer here obviously
yeah I sort of asked that question
rhetorically almost but
you know if it's squared up
and Keith you can if it's squared up it
would be further away from the side yard
setback
yeah I'm looking
so you have this one column out here
close to the garage
if this thing shrunk to 14 by 14 and you
swung the whole structure over to there
um I don't know if you can pull the site
plan he's not staying
but the open ends
facing your house in in your driveway if
you can pull the site plane back up yeah
well I mean we're not approving are we
do we want to approve
the alignment of it or do you just want
to prove the setback of it so if you if
you took that big block and we struck it
down the 14 by 14 and basically rotated
it 45 degrees because it looks like it's
on about a 45 degree angle and then it
sort of
kind of matched up with their the column
is up there in the upper left hand
corner I think that would pull it far
enough away back from your house
you know you're going to lose your
little triangular storage area that we
discussed but then then you then you
could pave that area all around in front
of it and have your side yard still go
back to where it goes back today
yeah yeah
you could draw it forward
but then that would reduce the amount of
variance on the side yard setback we're
not right we're not giving the full
money on that that's something that
would be way more usable I do too
because I this is always deceiving and
this happens a lot for people who um you
know aren't designers to see it it looks
cool on plan to have it rotated but in
actuality you don't ever look at
something exactly straight on from your
house and if it like this it'll look
like an object that is set in your grass
oh yeah you could do oh on both sides of
it and everything I think the reason
part of the reason you maybe were drawn
to the
you know to rotating it is just the pure
size of it being 16 by 16. yeah I think
if it's 14 by 14 it's going to feel it's
going to feel a little bit better and
then when you come outside your house
you know Grill's going to be here you're
going to look right straight back and
see the TV and
um you can surround the whole thing with
your pavers so you can have exit ways to
your driveway out both sides and you're
not going to lose this big triangle back
there yeah and isn't there a tree are
you taken down a tree
good
okay so that tree is gone okay all right
see one problem that we as a board have
is everybody in Bexley wants to use
their side yard and go build right after
the end of the side yard you know and
we struggle with it because there's a
reason for these three foot five foot
side yard setbacks so all the houses
aren't right on top of each other right
but we get a lot of requests and we try
to be consistent but it's hard to be
consistent because some of these lots
are triangular and some of them are
built in a way they're at the end of a
cul-de-sac or something who knows what
and so we try to be
customize our decision making based upon
the facts that are in front of us for
that particular case
but I I
tend to agree that uh
that and sometimes what happens is we'll
make comments that are less than what
the owner wants to do and the owner ends
up being happier with it because these
people are designing professionals you
know
yeah yeah yes
yeah no it's cool yeah no I think it's a
cool idea it's sunken it looks cool yeah
yeah but there who did that that's
pretty cool oh my God you guys are good
but that's what you're talking about
something like so that she can see what
you're talking about but then and then
shift it up
over over the other side
yeah over keep going keep going keep
going keep going right into that column
hug it right up to that column up there
oh
yeah no keep just tug it right into that
corner there you go right there boom and
then you can go ahead and pave all
around it you probably I don't know if
you've thought about this but you'd have
enough space then to work in a fire pit
or something like that too if you wanted
to
okay that's fine
that's if you like a better position
there I was responding to your
job yeah
[Laughter]
I think either one of those
left to right or in the middle is better
than than diagonal yeah well I like it
either in the middle or hugged up to the
column on the side this one yeah because
then that impacts the variance that we
would give for the side yard setback it
helps us with the side yard setbacks
that's that's why I'm
Franklin
and I think I like it centered better
I'm an architect so
I think centered would be awesome
here we go at the symmetrical
what else all right I think we're
drawing uh uh to a
resolution here
um
Dewey
do we want to take a stab at what the
findings and conclusions of law might
sound like
can you can you formulate that based
upon all the Chit Chat you've been
listening to here
planning is a fact and decision of the
board for application number
bzap-23-15 for property located at 2559
Fair
on consideration of the application
proposed variance and evidence and
testimony before it the board finds the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to Grant an area of variance in Mexico
at section 12 2611 C have been met and a
variance
from Mexico in section 1252.102
to allow a 14 by 14 Pavilion in the west
side yard
centered between the South fence columns
at a maximum height of
should I go with the 12 foot 8 inches
let's just say 13 13 give her 13 feet 13
feet maximum height
designed to be worked out with the
city's device subject to further review
and approval by staff I'll help her with
you know Roofing choice and right right
positioning
all right
members of the board are you okay with
that reading of the findings of fact
conclusion whether you're going to vote
for or against it I'm not asking but
just can we just simply have Karen
approve the certificate of
appropriateness
design
honestly why not yeah are we locking
Stephanie into censoring it or yes I
still have the option of moving East
yeah
yeah I think that that
creating some side yards some side yard
set back there is is important to the
utility
so how do you have that worded in there
I don't I don't I mean if that is in
fact 14 feet by 14 feet and that whole
thing scaled that sure looks like it's
like seven feet from the West Side
property line yeah yeah I mean I would
just say her property line might be
outside her enthusias though right so if
you don't if there's no side yard
setback variants needed she could still
move the farther east if you further
east yeah right yeah exactly yeah so we
could give her yeah it gives her the
option of moving if you want to move it
up against that column we're just
limiting it from the West looking at the
the most it can be right yeah
um maximum
seven foot
or minimum minimum of seven feet from
the West Side property line here so
maybe eliminate the language about the
centered in the columns
yeah yeah you have flexibility right
designer to add as much flexibility as
possible yeah
a maximum of 70. mm-hmm
no no no no no minimum minimum I better
get that yeah
wind up why don't we read it again just
so that we could hear it in one fellow
swoop here
or just this
the last part
take your time
all right find us about decision of the
board located at 2559 Fair Avenue
application number bzap 23-15 the
applicant has proven that the criteria
to Grant an area variance in Mexico
section 12 2611 have been met and it
variants
from
Mexico section
1252.102 to allow a 14 by 14 Pavilion in
the side yard set back at a minimum of
seven feet from the West Side property
line and add a maximum height of 13 feet
further subject to final design review
and issuing of a certificate of
appropriateness by the design consultant
I think that works
does that work for you okay beautiful
thank you
um
do I hear a motion to approve the
findings of fact conclusions of law
please
I make a motion to approve thank you Mr
Hall is there a second
second thank you
all right
Kathy please call the roll
Mr Levine yes Mr Schick yes Mr Marsh yes
Mr Paul yes storm yes and chairman B
Hall tell you what now there's been
enough votes since I live so close to
this place I'm going to abstain
but the motion passes and the your
project is on its way
thank you
um
you are dismissed
[Laughter]
do you need a doctor's note
all right I don't see any other cases on
the docket so with that we can adjourn
tonight's meeting thank you all thank
you thank you