three uh Bexley Architectural Review
board meeting
um can we call the roll
here
and that's just Scott
here
uh next is approval of the meeting
minutes we are proving last month and
the previous month did everybody get a
chance to review those
yes is there a motion to approve so
moved acrosser second we have to prove
each one individually Kathy or can we do
them both together
my motion is to prove both okay
second to approve both
yes
uh public comments is there anyone in
the audience that would like to speak
about an item that is not on the agenda
tonight if so
please raise your hand
seeing nothing okay we're gonna go to uh
consent we have two items on our consent
agenda tonight these items have been
reviewed by all board members and have
been approved I believe we asked for
maybe a few modifications that the
applicants have agreed to
uh so the first one is application
number bzap 23-11 the address is 2444
Bexley Park the applicant is Valerie
Hallis and the owner is Casey King
the second one is application ARB 23-15
the address is 825 South Roosevelt the
applicant is Amy lower house and the
owner is zettler is there anyone in the
audience that came to speak about either
of those applications
okay seeing none is there a board member
that will make a motion to approve those
two applications so moved
Cross Key
uh second hire
um Mr Strasser
yes Mr Scott yes Mr hired
yes Mr croskey yes Adam Tony yes
and our next agenda item is old business
so our first application under old
business is
bzap23-8 the address is 2691 East Main
Street the applicant is Sarah Montague
and the owner is Matt Davis the
applicant is seeking per remand of the
board of zoning and planning
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
two-story addition to the front facade
and building and site modifications
Karen will give us a little bit of
background on that project
by way of reminder this application was
before the board at our um
last two months ago two months ago two
months ago
um and needed uh zoning variants for I
think it was just parking is that right
Kathy it was and I'm happy to read the
conditions that the bees approved okay
you want to go ahead and do that and
then I'll talk about the design they
approved the
variance uh to allow the parking space
reduction and allow more green space
with the following conditions that two
bike racks are to be moved to the north
side of the West entrance by switching
the Ada parking to the south side of the
West entrance shift the rest of the west
parking spaces South
uh two the site is to be developed and
substantial conformance with the
rendering and plans submitted as
conditioned and further return to the
architecture review board for final
approval of the certificate of
appropiness and the landscape plan is
subject to further review and approval
by the tree and public garden Commission
okay
um this this plan that I have up there
now represents the changes
um I believe that might have even been a
part of the conversation here but in any
case
um they did change that in response to
bzap condition that this become a more
like a green entrance
um and there's a couple bike racks and I
think it's pretty easy to see
I'm hoping that this is it's all in this
packet I believe that I'll just kind of
zip through it there's not a ton of
changes but I'm also going to let the
applicant come up and speak to it all
um there is a really complete packet
here
um I've had a lot of really good
feedback it isn't on consent because a
couple board members had or one board
member especially have some material
discussions that wanted to be had but um
I think I just would like to ask Sarah
Sarah as
going to be here
and Kathy will Square you in
please state your name
you solemnly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
thank you
so uh yes
um
primarily was the parking revision
um moving marketing space to the front
and having that that by working closer
um we also modify the
um
to provide some dating boards
short wrench F attacks
um and so I think that's actually that's
the size yeah
so that was
um
there's a large uh so
um
sunshade there
um and
um I think there's uh some additional
detailing on the celebration
um to be able to break up and
um
and uh read less supplies on here
um the green wall also we try to address
comments there are some concerns that it
was branded so I think that we're still
kind of working at the retails
right the idea is that it's a little bit
more natural but yeah you throw up
um and I I think
uh that um
um
the I think there was also some
experience about
um
uh blocking uh or it's sort of going to
judge like uh an inch or after an image
so that leaves like that A variation
um
and along the other piece of the side to
try to
yeah
um more Expressions
class and that the weathering that we
will group
um
highlights that
um
I like those those features rather than
um
a large blank wall that was staying
anything else
okay
uh is there anyone in the audience that
came to speak about this application
okay seeing no one is there a board
member that would like to go first
sure
uh thank you
um thanks for updating the packet um it
looks great I think the improvements to
the um
the parking lot facade and the the
softening of that entry um where the in
the previous submit all the
entry looked like it was coming out into
a parking spot um is is much much better
so uh I think
um that's one of the items that when I
was here two months ago I just I
discussed them I think bizap was was in
agreement with that so I think that's uh
that's a very good I think that makes a
very nice it softens that corner um the
bike rack there as well really makes
that entry um articulated well so uh
everything else my other comment that
last uh time was about that branding I
think it's done much better I think it's
it's at least communicated better to me
so I think I'm in full support of that
as well so thank you good job
anyone want to go next
I really like the project and I think
all the modifications that she made are
really great uh I I actually I love The
Branding of the CEO and the green plants
that are going to happen
um and I like that you
um
above that created some relief uh and
those are sort of mimicking the windows
that you see on the other side so I
think I think it's a really great
project and I'm excited for it so thank
you
Mr Hyde
well I'll ask a tough question
um the Limestone veneer
how is it
adhered to the building
is is it made are you have these little
pieces
are they put together into bigger panels
and then these bigger panels are applied
to the building
so these are individual pieces that are
12 by
24.
and they're just stacked on top of each
other
so what is the size of the mortar joint
this is because I'm the one who's
worried about this Limestone veneer over
time
you know you how thick is this veneer
we were speaking with
um
we wanted to get some variation with
that right so
um we were speaking
um
I can't remember
it's going to be self-supporting then it
needs to be that needs to be four inches
thick to be self-supporting
so it
will self-supporting it will be adhered
back to students
it'll be anchored back and at each joint
you're going to have a tie that
yeah
okay so there's no cavity there it's
just pushed up against the the wall
so it doesn't breathe
I mean it there's no there's no Channel
behind it for water it's just going to
have to the water is going to come back
out it's it's going to hit whatever the
surface is behind but it doesn't have a
there's no drainage Channel behind
okay yeah
okay
I don't think it's going to last
I really think this in 10 years is going
to look terrible and I'm still convinced
about that if you had told me this was a
four inch veneer with a cavity behind
where you had drainage then I would
believe that the Limestone you know
could possibly survive and not look you
know stained and messy over time
um possibly but if it's just you know
stuck on then I'm I'm not buying it I
think it's not going to look good over
time it looks great in the red rings but
you know
I just think over time it's not gonna
it's not gonna survive so that was the
only question I had is there a different
product that you're recommending
uh I was just looking for possibly you
could do them in panels and have them
suspended off the building
but you need a cavity at least a
drainage board
um or something and if you did a panel
you wouldn't have to do the 3 8 inch
joints everywhere you know what I mean
but you that means you would be creating
a basically a curtain wall
with these big Limestone panels you know
that that are that are um suspended on
the building
I don't know how that works
but you would be able to eliminate the
joints and you wouldn't have to and
you'd have a cavity behind and you
wouldn't have to deal with the weather
the way
it is now
all right thank you
um
right
yeah drainage map but I I just think if
you're going to be trying to adhere
these all these individual pieces of
limestone
that it's it's not gonna I can't see the
the an adhesive is going to hold this
together over a long period of time
I just can't I can't I'm not buying that
if you had come back
and had panels that were made of what my
suggestion was ceramic the last time or
something like that even our Ohio State
Bank building down here uses a glazed
brick you know that are basically
curtain wall panels that I would buy but
this I I just can't buy it again
Architects can make everything look
great in renderings but the weather out
there is going to determine what this
really looks like in in 10 years and I
just don't think the system you have is
is the right system
S
[Music]
I also think that some weathering will I
think that's where the vertical accents
are supposed to sort of help with like
directing where that weathering comes in
so that um I mean there are lots of
sort of traditional one certain
buildings that have lettering on them in
there I think
um
some of those buildings are you know one
of the ones that we want to preserve and
saved so
yeah I mean I don't know that this is
the time and place to get into all the
technical details about this but if I
was going to be convinced I'd want to
see buildings with this same system that
have survived for 20 years without you
know major deterioration I mean if you
had examples of that I'd be happy to
look at those but the glue idea with a
two inch veneer is for for a whole side
of a building is unknown to me I mean I
don't know this system
um and I you know line I'd have a lot of
experience with Limestone but it's
always four inches and we have a cavity
uh or we can even do two inches but
we're doing that on panels that are then
attached to the building
but just having individual pieces that
are glued I don't think I've ever seen
that before have you Pete not with real
Limestone cut stone I've seen it in a
composite
you know Composites are looking stick
right it's that's right Silverado or
something right where you're
um
you basically you're you're applying a
stucco base with a little laugh and
ordering them to the wall right you can
get a Tyvek drainage mat behind it but
that is a very compressed system
uh and I would lean towards more of a
residential installation than a
commercial District but
but that's not what this is this is a
real Limestone cut cut pieces that
you're basically gluing to the facade
is there is there a specific
manufacturer you said you were talking
with a company that's going to cut the
stone
does that manufacturer provide just the
stone and you are then designing the
system or is it a full kind of like
installation guidelines and warranty
associated with them right
yeah so like an El Dorado would say
here's how you install it and we
guarantee we warranty that
so that's that's another question
because I mean obviously the stone
itself will have carry some sort of
warranty as a product but the
installation will be on the contractor
and with all those pieces
to rely on masons in today's build
building environment to lay every single
12 by 24 piece perfectly vertical and
perfectly Plumb
um I just think it's asking too much
I don't think I don't think your Mason
is going to make it look like what we
see in this rendering I don't think
that's possible
and then you have ones that are also
horizontal that are under the cantilever
at the front
um
again it's the same concern
I think if it was something that was a
panel system that was a ceramic or a
porcelain or something like that or at
least a thin kind of man-made baked
product I'd I might buy it as a paneled
system that was suspended off the
building but not real pieces of
limestone but now I'm repeating myself
so well I mean to expand on that I mean
they make porcelain tile that it looks
like wood Limestone they make it all and
it's 100 previous
uh can be fairly easily cleaned and it
would give you a very very similar look
um but that's a different product right
you're looking for real Stone and and
what that brings to the character and
feel of the building and I respect that
I
um you know since it's not a system it's
really relying on the architectural
details
um and and the actual cut of the stone
you know different Limestone weathers
differently so there's no way really to
know yeah I mean I have no other issues
or comments I think the design is nice
and I think the canopies and the your
response to the inquiries and comments
from last time are good
um
but I you know I I live around the
corner and I I just know that over time
that this is not going to look like what
these renderings are and I think that
it's going to be an eyesore honestly
in 20 years
I have something real quick okay
so
um you should probably look up uh
wje.com they're like a well-known
exterior or just in general like
building system company
um they'll go inspect buildings they
have a technical data sheet on adhered
Stone and you know good and bad things
so I would go check that out and look at
their information
so
there the the name of the company is
with uh Jenny elsner if if you wanna
yeah they're a good company to look at
and they have a technical Bulletin
on
it yeah they are a company that like
they do inspections for buildings where
exterior materials have failed and so
this is like a really good it's a good
technical bulletin for you to look at
that talks about the problems yeah it's
uh whis w-i-s-s
Janie j a n n e y and elsner Associates
WS
I'm sorry wje
yeah they have offices around the
country
they're one of the bigger masonry and
historic structures Engineers uh
companies
but I'm only one vote and you have a
whole board here so don't let that
um you know necessarily impede you
uh I have nothing to add on the design
thank you for making the changes you
made
listening to Mr hire is
causing me
um
to
uh
reconsider I thought I would vote in
favor of this tonight for sure but um
you know we don't want
falling
pile pieces coming off the building or
you know I'm envisioning something
pretty
uh poor looking in 10 years and
when that happens we don't really have
any control on forcing owners to make
improvements they only come here when
they want to make a major change not
repair
so it's a cost for concern that we might
have something on our main street that
is not going to wear well
and so I guess I'm still open to list
and what Madame Tony has to say
so I think design wise it looks amazing
all the changes we made are great
um
I am a little bit concerned about the
Limestone but I I'm guessing that you
are too
so I guess what I would like to see you
do is um
maybe reconsider this do your research
um Jocelyn gave you a great website
great people to reach out to
and then maybe that aspect of it comes
back to Karen that she can if you change
it to ceramic because I'm sure you want
this to look amazing in 10 years the
same way that we do
the last thing you want is for the
Limestone to fail and I've had Limestone
fail on projects so
um so I don't know if you're comfortable
with that I don't know if all the rest
of the board is comfortable with that
but I feel like the design of it we're
there the look of it is perfect so we're
just trying to figure out that one
material and usually we would push you
to do real materials so this is a little
bit backwards I I have to say I mean
when I saw a real Limestone I got
excited but you know knowing that it
might have a problem down the road I
would rather have you do um a ceramic
you know tile or something that
looks amazing in 10 years still so is
there some way we could
um
I don't know require
I'm not sure it's fair
Karen
to
sign off on something that is so
technical
regarding Stone installation
and
respect the design
aspects of this but I don't have a
strong sense from tonight that and maybe
somebody else on your team that you're
an expert on this particular
installation approach in your
I don't know if we can
request some kind of export to or you
know reputable firm that if we knew the
installation was going to be by a really
reputable well-established firm that we
could get some comfort on that that is
going to be installed right well either
way they have to go to the next phase of
drawings which is detailing all this so
everything that they submit is something
that they have to do research done even
if they're doing the Limestone they're
figuring out all the details of how
they're doing it so
I'm totally comfortable giving it to
Karen because she's going to read all
the specs on it are you comfortable with
it yeah I'm comfortable with it I mean
okay I didn't want to force that on you
no no I appreciate that but but
to your point if I'm not comfortable
it will come back yeah yeah and I'm not
ever shy about that
yeah
and there's also some intermediate
things we can do like if you if you
decide to go with a different system or
some kind of installation
you know method that we're all not
familiar with we can I can send out
you know whatever you send to me to the
board members outside of this we can put
the condition that there still be some
exploration that the design is approved
you can get going on your you know
construction documents with that issue
um out there that I can relay
information to the board via email
um and if I decide you know if I feel
like there's too big of a change or I
don't understand something
I can bring it back here
right
I don't think you you're there yet yeah
well and and as a wardrobe I I don't we
don't typically just review technical
drawings so we're looking at
architectural design details maybe but
not and I I think there's really three
factors there's the architectural design
details that would be in the
construction drawings it's quality of
installation and then what I think more
of what we're talking about today and I
think quality of installation refers a
little bit of what you touched on on
panels falling off from piece that's
that's installation that's not
you know architectural detail it could
be but it's not necessarily artificial
detail or product failure I think the
concern I'm hearing here tonight is is
the longevity of the quality of the
finish of the building material and that
limestone is one of the softer stones
but there are things you can do and I
think one I I touched on is there a
system that is warranted by this
manufacturer no it might be the product
itself is warranted um
but is that 10 years is that 20 years I
would be much more uh convinced if if
you said here's here's the documentation
and this is what we're following that's
related to the manufacturer's warranty
and and and the long and how we're going
to maintain this product like a ceiling
of the stone or you know how you might
have the ownership might wash it I don't
know how much more oversight we can
really
push back onto you because I think as a
design review I think we're all in
agreement that the design is is spot on
um we we obviously can call uh question
the material and I think we have but in
the end
um you know if you're able to prove that
this will last and this is through this
either maintenance programming and or a
ceiling or of a a system by which you're
building this on or a manufacturer is
going to be able to stand behind it
um you know I that in my position I
don't know how I could not move forward
with it I would want to see examples I
wouldn't want just technical bulletins I
wouldn't want to see examples of where
this has succeeded
been put on buildings for a long time so
it's in different ways this is the this
is a more Modern Way of attaching the
stone so I would agree that we would I
would want to see yeah and certainly
we'd love Innovation but we also this is
Main Street this is our public face yeah
so
um requiring a mock-up to might be a
good idea because then you can make sure
that the installers are
um you know installing it in the
appropriate way and per your documents
and I think with this being you know a
building that's gonna
uh you know be pretty prominent on the
street
um it I think it probably warrants a
mock-up and you don't have to have the
mock-up be super large I mean for larger
projects we would do larger mock-ups but
you could have one you know
appropriately sized for the type of
material and all of the components in
your wall system so they build the
backup wall they put on the you know
sheeting or whatever is part of your
system the drainage plane the
you know air and Vapor Barrier if you
have one that type of stuff and then the
material and so they can you can see
then how they're installing it and if
they're installing it in an appropriate
Manner and then you can talk about if
they aren't like what needs to change so
I mean I would recommend that at least
for this material we are getting into
such technical stuff that we usually
don't at this level
and I appreciate all the comments I
think they're really important but this
is kind of Beyond
this board
and I think that it's really important
to listen to Mr hyer's comments take
that back with the condition that it
that
uh we we want to see some interim work
on the on the technical side of this and
if there's any aesthetic changes that we
either I communicate them via an email
to all of you or if it's big enough that
we just come back here but we could sit
here for hours talking about the
technical possibilities and I just don't
think
it's the appropriate Forum to do that
exactly right it's not fair nor should
the board be telling you like do this do
that because you know this is about the
Aesthetics of it to Mr hire's point if
it changes the Aesthetics then it's an
important issue for this board but we
don't really have enough information so
it's up to this board whether or not we
approve it with with this given
aesthetic the unknown being the
installation technique which is very
unusual we don't have this come before
us it needs to meet the construction it
also needs to meet the construction code
there is it doesn't go just for I mean
you guys all know but just for
the the audience and for your sake it
doesn't just go from here to
construction there's a lot of interim
checkpoints and now we know that you
know it's been put out there rightly so
that the the installation method have a
checkpoint and we can and I've had
nothing but great experience with your
team with Tim Tim and Eliza ho who are
extremely communicative so I'm not at
all worried about a conditional approval
that this you know Works through interim
but I think that we can spend a lot of
time talking about technical stuff that
it just
there's a lot of people on the agenda
aside from this
in fact I just read a little bit in the
sense that when we learn that the
material the
one inch or two inch piece of stone
that's going to be adhered with adhesive
that is we're judging on the status on
that and that's part of what design I
think the bills as well and we say
I agree I just don't think we're going
to resolve it here
so it's up to this board whether or not
to so with the condition or right the
question is are we going to vote on it
to with this condition or do we want to
ask her to come back right
I would vote on it
and would you like me to also add the
mock-up during the construction process
okay
all right got it
okay
okay so is there would you like us to go
ahead and vote then
okay is there a board member that um
okay let's read the findings in fact the
findings a fact and decision of the
board for application number
vzap-23-8 for property located at 2691
East Main Street
the architecture review reward finds
that the two-story Edition
and building and site modifications are
architecturally compatible with the
existing structure
and finds that a certificate of
appropriateness should be issued subject
to the plans
being in conformance with the plans
submitted at B6
June 8th 2020 texture review board
meeting
and subject to the exterior material
provided
additional information
[Music]
of an alternate product
further subject to review and approval
by the design consultant
yeah so we're not necessarily asking for
an alternate product we're asking for
you to justify how you're using this one
or an alternate product and either way
you're sending that to Karen yes for
whether it be what's proposed tonight or
something or an alternate material yeah
but either way we are assuming that the
look will stay the same
okay
I'm a little confused so if this gets
approved tonight and the applicant works
with the design consultant to come up
with
a solution to the Limestone or a
solution for another material could be
one of the other
and three or more of the board members
disagree with that solution what happens
well I'm not going to prove it unless
the Aesthetics are very similar to
what's approved tonight if they're not
then we bring it back
I'm guessing Karen's probably going to
share it with one or two of you just to
verify
thank you
so I guess if they come back and say
that they're going to install it this
way and three board members are not
happy with that then you come back or if
you're going to switch to a different
material and three or more board members
are not happy with that then
so at this point we're saying that you
will then send it to the board members
in an email to show us what the final
solution is yes the then why don't we
just table it why can't it just be I
don't think I thought we would approve
it
conditioned on
the applicant
demonstrating to the staff or design
consultant and the building department
that the installation technique and
methods
are
appropriate and sustainable
and if
either the design consultant
or the building department the code
folks
are not satisfied with the installation
of methane materials approach
and this the longevity of that
then
would have to come then they have the
applicant will have to submit a
different material
maybe to the board maybe it's Karen what
if we
approve it
for the conceptual design and everything
with the applicant to return with the
final material product that's what I was
going to suggest exactly we're approving
the design award yeah and they can go
everything is the final material that's
great because then you can proceed and
then we just have to work out the
material
yep so
yeah but it would it would be approved
but the condition that you return to
this board or the technical details of
the installation
okay so the two-story Edition and
building and site modifications are
approved and substantial conformance
with the plan submitted with the
applicant to return with the final
material or proposed for the exterior
Edition final material and app and
installation application and
installation
method
okay
okay so do you understand the findings
facts as she read them yeah
is there a board member that will make
promotion so moved Cross Key second
Strasser
I will call the roll Mr Scott yes Mr
hired yes
Mr croskey yes Miss strawser yes Madam
Tony yes
okay so um are we asking them to come
back next month or does it or can they
if it takes two months or whatever they
can come back and come back whenever
uh or
we can have her return on a certain date
let's just have you let's put it on the
calendar for next month and then if you
can't make it next month you just call
the city and tell them that you need to
push it back one more month so July the
final material product is tabled until
July 13th yeah that sounds great that
time will announce if it's delayed to
the next month or we'll hear and
in the meantime if you could get
examples of buildings that have used the
system with Limestone yeah
that we could go see before we or you
know that we would see pictures and
stuff before we meet again that would be
great
okay
thank you
all right uh next application of old
business is application number ARB 23-10
the address is 266 South Stanwood
applicant is Daniel moment
I'm sorry Moma the owner is Paul lamb
the applicant is seeking Architectural
Review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for an addition and
expansion of the existing sun room
okay this application was before the
board last month
and was tabled
um for quite a few different reasons I
actually have been now to the site
inside and out and understand the
complicating factors a little bit
um I'm happy to say that the applicant
and the owner had really listened to all
of you and decided please tell me if
it's changed but to go ahead and re-dig
the whole basement rather than Shore it
up so this was what I consider a pretty
successful outcome
um from our last I'm trying to bring up
that the pictures okay so the only the
only um
so they did we also had a quite a few
board members it wasn't unanimous but
had recommended that they look at a flat
roof rather than a shed roof as well
um the details still have a lot of work
to be ironed out which I'm happy to have
that
um with me or to have it tabled and the
applicant knows that and we just kind of
still were in design until until just
the beginning of this week but I did
definitely wanted to get it in front of
your eyes I also asked the the applicant
was
um considering a railing over the top
because in the future they might want to
have some outdoor space so that was
another reason to stick with a flat roof
instead of the shed roof
um additionally they are bringing
tonight I think there are sample
materials I'm concerned about the
quality of the materials so the
applicant has brought them with him
um he also doesn't have really the final
determination of
panels versus sighting and wanted to get
some feedback
um
if you want to come
um forward Daniel if everyone remembers
the last month he had just had a baby
that morning as well
so now now you're just tired
I state your name
do you solemnly swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth thank you
do you want to go through and give us
the updates the changes that you made
and just tell me what you want me to put
up on the screen we have a lot of stuff
so I don't know which drawing you want
it's pretty change was so
um
original design was
just a flat roof without anything I mean
comparison stuff that would look better
would be for him so we added that as
well
we thought about doing some kind of
stone well I don't we change that to
a PVC
product that looks like wood
we just wanted to bring up the original
with some existing siding
for them
anything else you want to add the
current design yeah what's the current
plan I'm confused that's an excellent
question which which design do you want
me to put up as the the most current one
that you want to talk about
this one
sorry rendering of that one
well the rendering has the
um
the rendering has board and Baton and
then this drawing has
yeah page 11.
so there you go but there's no
where's the railing so the railing was
you don't want to do it now but that
wasn't an option okay
that's why we included this is the first
the original one of The Originals
oh okay
okay is there anyone in the audience
that wants to speak about this
application before we
foreign
ER from the testimony you're about to
give this evening is the truth yes
Daniel would you turn on that microphone
please just no thank you sorry not
Daniel but I did it
um I so the rent on the right was a
discussion well before the project but I
really want the what I really would like
the board to focus on is what's on the
left side of the screen that's actually
what we've discussed although I don't
see the rendering of the awning on the
front but that's actually what we would
like to discuss I don't know that there
it's worth looking at it
design that was a conceptual very early
on when
this one you aren't considering the one
on the right the one we prefer not to
say let's let's just because I don't
want to get no thank you that's
appreciated
um and just you know by the way a
background like these all just came in
this week and I I know that you guys
don't love that but I just thought it
was fair to give some to get some board
feedback because it's been it's been a
struggle to kind of figure this project
out and it's a big undertaking too now
take the whole thing down and rebuild it
and re-dig the base dig the basement
fully and I think we all can appreciate
that you're going to an extra expense
but I think it'll actually be well worth
it yeah and I do want to I do want to
say I do really appreciate the comments
um by the board because it wasn't a
thought it wasn't something I had
considered and I do think it's going to
add tremendous value and it'll look I
think it's going to make a lot of sense
give me some great comments about some
of the issues to tie in and so I think
Neil did a great job of spending time
considering those factors and then
ultimately we'll get a better product at
the end so I appreciate the work for
that yeah I think it's just an important
background I mean I was in the basement
it now you can actually use it yeah when
you do this it's not very usable the way
it is now so
so to step back
that's a big problem that we solve
together on site
um I don't think it's there yet I think
the massing is right the placement is
right but I think we need to work on the
exterior details the roof lines the
materials the windows are the way they
are because I just wanted to put this on
the record because I I had some board
members
um ask me about why the windows aren't
matching the windows of the house
um half of them are already there so are
already in it
and I'm happy to bring up any of the
pictures of existing too if you didn't
get a chance to go by I'm going to be
quiet now so the idea is to repurpose
those when to keep them and that that's
the answer to the window push
okay is there anything else you want to
explain about the project then before we
go to
board members
okay
is there anyone else in the audience
that wants to speak about this
application
is there a board member that would like
to go first I I'll go first just because
I mostly have a couple questions not
rather than comments
um how many windows are being reused and
how many windows are you buying so the
two and the facing the front next to the
front door would be reused and the two
that are facing the back so this whole
new
the the long wall with the four Windows
would be all replaced okay
the idea what the cost saving is to save
for Windows
200 bucks
so I thought so
my thought is that
I understand trying to save where you
can
but the windows are
not
very complementary to the house
and to make your whole design around
saving I know it's easy for me to say
because I don't have to pay for them but
to let those old windows drive your
decision
to me was a mistake from a design
perspective as well as maybe even an
economic perspective I don't know how
old those windows are but Windows have
improved a lot
and
um
I think these windows are not not
complementary to your house and that
they don't they don't do anything for
that Edition
and it seems Pennywise and powerful-ish
that would be my only suggestion is to
abandon that get a cool window you don't
have to match but something that's
compatible with the house
are you saying getting all new windows
yep
I don't think it's worth matching the
old windows save for
not so great windows and that that's my
only comment
uh Mr Scott you want to go next I'm
going to defer because I was not here
last month so I want to hear all the
other comments from sure so
Mr higher sure
well who did the rendering is that you
that did the rendering of the house who
did the rendering
okay well this I I really appreciate
that last time we saw photographs that
were all turned and we had a few
drawings
and we were able to decipher you know
what was going on but this is very
helpful and I think
um Ms drosser's you know comments are
because of that model I really
appreciate that
um all right
I
think Miss drosser is right I mean
the other problem you have is when you
when you demo and you take these windows
out and you move them
there's always that risk of them
breaking yeah or at least the seal on
the thermal glazing to break because
you're you know manhandling these
windows and taking them out
um I mean I I don't know how many
editions are put up in Bexley where
you'll see a broken window a new broken
window like on every job site because
something happened you know somebody
like backed into it with a two by four
or or the glazing
um the thermal glazing seal broke
and you see all the fog you know in
between so I think she's right I think
um and then the question is if you're
going to be doing new windows
are you going to match the light pattern
of the existing Windows you have what we
call
um
well they're not really cottage style
um but they you know you have you have
what in this case would be an eight over
one so it's eight little lights over one
on the sashes right eight over one
would you be doing a double hung would
you be doing a uh casement or would you
want to extend that window and make it
taller
to let more light in and eliminate the
whole need for this these panels that
are there down below
you see what I'm saying
um the cost of a window you know
it's not doubling in size you're adding
25 30 more window
but it's also allowing more light in and
then you only have a small panel at the
bottom or you could take it all the way
to the floor I've seen that too
it's more cost
but now that we're talking about the
idea of new windows here
um you have lots and lots more options
because those existing windows were
constraining you to to this design
my question would be is what would you
guys like to see
well I mean I think what we're here to
do is is to uh not drive a design for
you but give you options give you ideas
that would then come back for approval
or they would be just worked with the
design consultant because at this point
in my in my opinion this would be a
question that would be simply driven by
the design consultant the basement issue
has worked out your skirt board made
with azec I'm assuming it's an azec
product is worked out your stone veneer
that we talked about not wrapping around
and doing all that's worked out the roof
system I'm assuming you're going to have
a small slope to this roof right yeah
and then you're gonna have a gutter yeah
and you're gonna have downspouts and I
think that's all in the purview of the
design consultant but I am throwing that
out the idea that you have an
opportunity here now are these vinyl
windows yeah so your new windows are
going to be vinyl
I mean you should be able to find some
nice final windows that will extend and
and then you can you can have them with
light patterns or if they look more like
French doors then maybe you don't need
light patterns maybe they're just open
glazing like you have right now except
it's no longer a slider it's now you
know
a nice French door look so
I would you know
recommend that you look at that kind of
an option now if you have little kit
you'd have a little kid but it's going
to be a while before anyway the glass
down low might be an issue for you so
maybe you raise the cell up just a
little bit more yeah we considered
potentially later doing some kind of
Cabinetry on the inside like cabinets
and stuff right and it could be like 18
inches off the floor so they could be
used as a bench and you could store
things in it as well yeah but then your
window can extend all the way down to
that I would I would recommend pursuing
that my my vote on this is not going to
be based on the windows that I see here
unless you tell me that you're
definitely looking for this design if
you say you're open to working with the
design consultant then I would be
inclined to approve
I don't think that we have an issue with
uh to your point it's not gonna
it's more cost but it what you've said
makes sense I don't think we have a
problem with changing windows and
working with I don't think it's a big
cost either and I I think that when
staff had the F1 point it doesn't have
to mimic
exactly the grids at all I mean did you
think the pictures I sent you today I
was on a walk today and I saw a porch
exactly like what they should be doing
and that that would just be like the one
horizontal one vertical that each each
pane would mimic the proportions of all
your little grits but you could just you
know it it would still it would kind of
be a good
um somewhat of the sun Porsche but also
have grids at least match so there's all
kinds of and this kind of thing excites
me I'm happy to work with you on it if
that's
um indeed what the board ones I I would
probably also lead you to not have such
a high knee wall and lower it a little
bit too you can still put Cabinetry you
can still put stuff you know
um but I I'm really
I'm happy to work with the work with you
as the board conditions it on that
Miss kraska do you want anything
now I'm fine with that I'm fine with
conditioning it to go back to Karen and
you working on the Windows especially if
you're open to that uh the only thing I
would say is
um you know think about I know I saw you
have some Landscaping on like one side
of it I mean you're going to be digging
up a lot I don't know if you'll get like
asphalt back there very well like around
the existing edges here so maybe
consider like some Landscaping you know
on the three sides and
have a little bit of a buffer before you
get to your walkway and your um
your uh asphalt Drive
yeah I think it's just on one side there
should be there will be able to be able
to maintain some Greenery right around
okay
Mr Scott do you have anything good
yes
um
so I think the proportion of the massing
of the addition is
um
appropriate it's scaled okay
um
but I don't know I mean you're calling
it a sunroom but you're talking about
almost a 30 foot wide by 10 foot deep
addition to the home
but it's still being treated as a
sunroom style architecture when it was
half that with a box or even with the
shed roof
you know there's the sunrooms always
these little distance they could put on
houses
are I feel are always at a lesser
quality than the house original I think
was made and this house has been
modified over the years but
but you're still treating you're just
extending that that idea of a sunroom
and I know that that's what the use
might be which is great
but architecturally it doesn't make any
sense to me it is a significant addition
to the building but feel still feels
like kind of a cheap sunroom addition
that's been put on though I think this
sounds like it's framed walls it's
insulated it's got a basement down which
is that's good it's gonna be good for
you you'll enjoy that additional square
footage in your basement but
but then I get I question the aesthetic
of the the overall design and it doesn't
to me it still feels like kind of a
cheap sunroom Edition that might also be
with just someone the way this is being
rendered which I do appreciate seeing so
thank you
um but even if you go to the elevation
if you back up a couple of pages you
know just the detailing one more place
the these panels that are under the
windows they're not even centered like
the windows aren't centered along the
facade the panels aren't centered
between the windows so there's and I
think that just might be a graphic issue
for me you guys
um but it's still concern to me uh
because you know for proving something
like this
um those things will need to really be
tightened up uh I also agree I think the
windows uh do a disservice here and I
think you would have a much better
quality
because the massing works with the
building by changing those windows and
finding something that works much more
compatibly with the existing home
doesn't have to match but there has to
be a flavor to that same window
um
also the panel you know the the height
of the bottom of the solar windows I
think could be lowered or there could be
changes it all doesn't have to be
exactly the same
um so I think I agree with everything
that's been said but I I really think it
feels like it's still being treated as a
sunroom and it is based on its scale it
is certainly not a similar meeting it
really needs to have a level of of
character that the existing house is
uh Pete if the if the windows got taller
and were only 18 inches off of the top
of the skirt and the and they were able
to work with Ms bokor on the size of
that panel and how it creates these
alignments that you're looking for with
you know
it's the scale of the elements that
we're seeing in the drawings that I
think you know I I I'm assuming it's not
a license architecture is somebody
that's so that you know I get it and I
appreciate the efforts that are done but
I think there's some balance there and
proportions that need to be worked out
and I think that's something I would
recommend that we focus on which we
typically do
uh just to so that it it feels much more
like a permanent addition to the home
and not a sunroom because it's no longer
a sudden I mean it may be used for that
it's gonna be fabulous
I think you'll you'll you'll sit outside
of your garage and look at you'll be
much more appreciative of the Edition
not just because it's done and you've
gotten that square footage but also the
quality that and the color blends to the
house and and Asic makes solid panel
material so you don't have to worry
about board and Baton um or doing this
beadboard look anymore you're talking
about the potential for just a thin
horizontal solid panel thanks yeah
simple and I can't speak highly enough
about Azek because I used it on my
Edition it's it's great stuff you can
put it down to grade you can put dirt up
against it you can it you can wash it
with soap and water you just have to
install it correctly but it's it's great
stuff
and is there um
if I see the way this may be going to me
which is great I'm happy to do it
um with you
is there any opinion on the flat roof
versus The Shed roof because without the
railing that is a lot of space in
between the windows and the roof and I'm
just wondering if anyone has a real
preference if it's done you go to the
rendering for me
I guess the question in my mind would be
when is this going to be made a walk out
if at all what are the pers what's the
what are the chances
are you going to wind up selling this
house before that happens is the roof
going to be sized properly to take the
weight of people up there
um or using two by sixes
let me ask a different question if this
was a living room expansion
right and they're putting a deck on the
back of that would you we should we
still be pushing for a flat rate for I
mean when we say sunroom the the fly
roof is appropriate but I go back to the
scale thing it doesn't feel like it
still feels like it act on box on the on
the building and it doesn't feel as
integral because of its scale and you
have all this room to the sill of the
second floor window yes you can do a
shed you could do a hip you know in a
slight shed it's not to match the
existing room that was my first comment
with Karen uh in my
and I saw the initial design I know
there was comments last month about the
shed roof um
I wasn't seeing my personal photos but
this is like the kind of as I was taking
I was taking you know noticing ah yeah
there it is there you go
that's what I sent to Daniel
because it's very simple lower
slope but it really looks nice yeah and
I'm the railing did it for me when
you're gonna put it to take up that
whole extra space but I think Mr higher
and everyone is right that you really
need to take it through because if
you're never gonna put that railing in
it's not going to be engineered to have
a walk-out space do you really want to
finish it with the flat roof that's
still much lowered than the windows I
just this just hit me today I was like
that's what they should be doing yeah
it's got the panels underneath the
window what you sort of envisioned but
you see how they line up with the trim
of the windows so the window trim comes
down and then you've got the panel
underneath do they open
windows I don't know is it possible I
guess like remote from the owner
perspective I one of the things I love
about the current space is that the
windows can open so I can get a breeze
through the space yeah of course yeah
these are double hungry make yours
yeah
it's not a mandate I think the issue is
a proportion and some of the kind of
scale of this that's different than
I mean I'm very open to those changes it
makes a lot of sense and that took your
feedback the last time we made changes
and I think that
um a big panel yeah
but even but again this is this has got
more detail on it it's very it's a
different aesthetic even but the panel
below the windows they group two windows
with one panel so they're Banking and
changing the proportion of two windows
to make it a larger panel and then they
you know so with your your window base
there's ways to to do that to kind of
help break down the facade a bit so yeah
something to consider I didn't I you
know it's risky when you put a picture
up like that you're not trying to force
anything but I think it's um a good
example and I think just to help him
like see the difference right so I see
it and see how the panels which is what
you were talking about right the panels
are not lined up with the windows and we
don't even really know what those panels
are supposed to be yet right it's kind
of just conceptual but on the photo you
see how they integrate that panel with
this with uh they're in line with the
trim you know and then you go wow that
is just it doesn't cost any more it just
looks so much better
and I'm I'm at 100 agreement the show
group would be
proportion again you know it's a sun
room yeah but in this scale I think the
shed will balance that facade out and
and and you probably understand this
already because they've set up just to
be clear
unless this is built
just hold a load on the second floor or
you're never going to be allowed to put
a rallying around there and put a door
up there and where's the door going to
go in that room does that work for you
really I think we are more than prepared
to lose that as an opportunity uh for
the look and feel that
um of the the drama I'm sorry the actual
yeah uh something that you showed I
think it looks so sad it looks a lot
nicer cool you can even Vault your
ceiling inside yeah it could be amazing
I would like to we talked about that
looks really nice when you have it yeah
yeah you're gonna Wonder that's a better
other picture that you had shows with
the that's a better architectural
feature that you'll use every day and
you put the railing up there you'll go
out there once a year maybe
there it will it take its leaves and
it's dirty and it leaks I've never seen
my neighbor on there it's a great idea
but it's really you so okay so are we as
a board recommending that they come back
with a new with a third design or are we
comfortable enough
I feel like there's a lot for me there's
a lot of things in question yet so I'm
inclined to ask them to come back
but I would like to come back you'd like
to come back
are you okay with that and I suspect
when you come back it's gonna be so
great that we're going to put on the
consent agenda yes yeah so just to make
you feel like you're not losing time
because I I know about this
um you're not okay you're gonna need
that time anyway and it's not gonna make
any difference
um because um two weeks is when it would
have to be in and it goes so quickly
um and you probably are threat if you
follow everything we've talked about
it'll probably won't even be heard it'll
be on a cassette enjoy the items
she's already got it drawn so it's just
a matter of
fact and if it goes because she sent
then we're not even going to be looking
at it
table this until July 13th yes
or do they want a tablet yes
yeah I don't think it sounds like it's
pretty unanimous we can call for a vote
but I think it would be a waste of time
and I know there's people behind us so
it wouldn't make any difference yeah
because it'll take you that long to make
construction documents and all that
anyway
okay so you are asking for a table is
there a board member that will make that
motion
um
seconded Cross Key
I will call the role Miss dresser yes Mr
croskey yes Mr higher yes Mr Scott yes
Tony yes okay we'll see you back at the
July 13th meeting right maybe
thank you very much
okay moving to new business
uh the next application is
arv23-12 the address is 2724 Bellwood
the applicant is Kelly Neff the owner is
Herbert Jackson the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
three-season porch addition to the rear
of the house
Karen will give us some background okay
this application there really isn't any
background this application is before us
for the first time it is a um
pretty typical patio enclosure project
um the only thing is that um well it's
certainly an improvement for what's back
there now this is the picture
um I did have a board request to see
several board members said you know this
is definitely an improvement but we'd
like to see what you do with the skirt
below and how the details are worked out
and are there some samples of other
projects that you have built I did send
the board members a link to the website
to look at like projects so I think it's
best if the Apple can just come up be
sworn in and we can talk through the
details
should they state your name uh Preston
homes
excuse me Preston homes you finally
swear or confirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is yes thank
you
so to address the
um the really only the only concern you
guys have is mainly the the skirting I
can we can provide samples of that there
are a lot of different pictures of
projects that we've done
um I believe with this project it was a
vinyl soffit that would be running down
down to grade
um yeah it's pretty typical three season
classroom all saved a different glass
that's it
is there a board member that would like
to go first
doing it oh
yeah is there anyone in the audience
that would like to think about this
application
okay is there a board member that would
like to go first
sure I will
um I have a question what is a super
foam roof
it's a it's an expanded super foam
um so it has aluminum skin on the bottom
aluminum skin on the top and then it has
a foam insulation so it's actually an
R15 insulation beside that
R15 R15 yep is this a heated and cooled
space no no okay why aluminum
that's just what we manufacture and it's
on the inside it's on both sides yes
um is there a ceiling below this that's
good
I don't know this product is is it is it
ribbed or is there a particular look to
it when you look up and so it's a
panelized roof system
um about three three foot panels so you
would mainly see you know i-beams that
are
coming down as a slope so whatever the
slope of the roof is is also the slope
of the ceiling so I'm going to kind of
drop down so it's like it's like a nail
base that you would use for like a
Timber structure except where it's like
a insulated it's an insulated panel yeah
it's insulated a panel that that is
connected between uh structural i-beams
that's so the panel sits inside of that
I-beam all the way across and so the
finished look on top is what
the finish on top is uh just shingles on
top of the roof if you were meaning yeah
yeah shingles on top of the aluminum
yeah aluminum yeah on top of the
aluminum
I believe so I'm happy to see this one
it might be
I think this one might be
okay so this one's actually just a
little bit of as well up top I don't
think that I think they opted out of the
shingle option
um I'll defer to other people on the
board who might have more in more
knowledge about that I just I'm I can't
Envision the Aesthetics of this of what
it looks like
so that's the problem for me because
um
everything here is visual right the
architecture review board but I I don't
know what this is what this really looks
like I have pictures on my laptop if you
like me yeah if you wanted to uh pull
them up
Karen I may have missed your link I
don't think I saw the link for I put it
in staff report but I can bring it up
okay I was looking for it in a separate
email so I apologize
you pull it up is that okay yes okay
can Karen go to that sure
this is this is technically a three
Season room that's your product yes it
looks like you you uh I guess I'm
jumping the gun here are we
would you like to see the laptop I think
we're gonna try to pull it up
yeah patio.com
well while they're going on I I'll I
have some other comments but
um
and then if you go to three season rooms
the
I mean this is these some of these are
technical because I'm okay with the look
and I think a skirt whether it's you
know a lattice type of skirt or whether
it's you know some kind of uh you know
board and batten system or whatever you
want to use as long as it's got you know
as long as it's durable and that you're
not just not putting cedar wood into the
ground correct
what is the material that you guys use
for a skirting vinyl an article bonus
often for I believe for this job is off
it
oh no I don't I don't I mean that um
you mean the kind of stuff they put
around trailers at a trailer park
not necessarily
um I mean it's a little more high
quality than that a little more durable
than that but yeah
I mean is there another option besides
yeah okay
and then we can do lattice work we can
do wood
okay and then the sliders
um there's no mullion in between
on the side elevation elevation a
what what's actually behind when you
pull those sliders out what's what's in
the middle
could we look at a picture so I can see
specifically what you're asking is this
what you do right there yes okay yes so
there's the wood lattice yes down below
right okay good so I would I would be
fine with that but go to the elevation
of go to Elevation a on their submittal
and I just
it's just a thing on the drawings that I
don't understand
uh it's on sheet three
there so if you go to the the sliders on
the lower left there it shows that
they're going they're pulling apart but
in between those two panels there's no
there's no vertical member there is okay
so the window actually overlapsed and
hides that vertical member so if you
refer back to the pictures primarily I
mean there are individual individual
systems that will tie into so it has
like a lock system so there you would
have a vertical member between the set
the two
sliding Windows systems okay got it
okay that's all I have
I would like to see that Panel System
though is that on here the the roof
panel not oh the panel system I mean it
might be some might be some pictures on
there
um if not I have a
is that it was yes I can see it okay
okay I got a pretty good picture at the
front page that you had
all the way down
if you go back to the very first page
that you flipped on there was a pretty
good picture of the panel live system
good picture that we saw already down
here
yeah
it's the roof options
there we are okay
that's construction photo
yes
you guys do carports too no
it looks it looks like the same kind of
material
that's all I have thank you
anyone that want to go next
but so what are their options on the
skirting
and on the roof they can use shingles on
there if they like to yes okay it's just
I guess some additional cost and does it
add
no no because the aluminum itself is
protected uh the expanded super foam is
hydrophobic so there really is no no
benefit to adding shingles to there
except for aesthetic options
okay
guns yeah I think so so unlike the
previous conversation about that 30 foot
long sun room
um this is a sunroom
it doesn't try to be anything else other
than a kind of a light structured glass
covered box
um
so you know like it or not I think it's
it falls right into that category of
this kind of almost manufactured product
that is assembled on site and
um is is I would call a semi-permanent
structure though they are left
permanently for a long time
um I don't believe they hold up
extremely well over a long period of
time but you know they have a shelf life
we're going to say so uh in the in the
end I think it's appropriate and I think
with the skirt I would want that open so
um having that uh underneath skirted and
um and I'm I'm kind of in this location
kind of indifferent on the roof
probably would have thought shingles
would begin or a little bit of a able
end would be nice
um
so I think overall you know I think the
D you've provided every detail uh
possible because I think that's part of
the the kit
um so that's
um
but again it's not trying to be anything
else I think in the earlier Seminole
there wasn't a handrail or things like
that that I think got added or I'm not
overlapping projects so
I think it's just it's it's fine for
what it is you know and I was if I can
add on one thing I was thinking I was
after I asked about the roof I was
thinking you know
why put a single roof on it it's not
really part of the house
it's it's something different it's
something else and kind of
modernish and
simple and this is the neighborhood I
mean this is you know this is Bellwood I
mean
no and I think if you look at the
exhibits it's an existing photograph I'm
looking at yeah you know there's
obviously work that needs to happen in
that location and I think this will be a
nice addition to that corner of the
house and it's a nice location for it so
I think it's
it's good and even the skirting you know
the kind of more traditional lattice
like why
it's
it's this is you know something more
modern vertical
why not
well I mean this uh you know a vinyl
soffit material like you see on you know
ranch burgers is I don't know that
that's what you really want on you know
going up and down into the ground I like
the wood lattice look that you guys have
there that's that fits the time period
too it's maintained it it holds up and
it's appropriate for this
non-conditioned kind of
Sun porch and I get the shed you know
because it's simple you're just
raftering but have you guys it looks
like you've done Gable forms before yes
and I noticed that on each end you have
these
triangular you know glass areas above
the windows
but if you did a Gable you'd eliminate
those and just do a piece of triangular
glass facing out away from the building
was that ever discussed with your client
if they wanted to yeah if they would
preferred just doing something simple
like keeping the way that is instead of
doing a Gable just doing the shed the
benefit of the Gable was it gives you
more volume in the space and the space
will feel significantly bigger because
it's not coming down at you it's staying
tall and all the way absolutely abuse so
yeah is that a conversation that could
be had with your client just as a
recommendation I mean I mean absolutely
I mean it's an increasing cost
um but I can actually have that
conversation with them because I mean Mr
Scott's absolutely right I mean it's
just you're spending this money on this
new porch you get that extra volume you
get to look out that glass instead of
having these kind of strange triangles
on the side it'll make a huge difference
and if it's within budget I would get a
strong recommendation but I don't think
for me it would be a condition
no but is that something that the design
consultant would like is the homeowner
here no no okay
and if you want me to help you talk that
through with the homeowner I'm more than
happy to okay
Miss croskey do everything good uh no I
agree with the majority of the comments
that occurred
um I see you have just uh depending on
if the roof changes you know just making
the transitions with the existing
chimney and you know the flashing and
everything and with the wall is
important I know I saw some details in
there but just make sure that you've got
all the correct ones for the wall types
and then
uh yeah it's I agree it can work with
Karen on talking to the owner
it's yeah
I was a little worried about the roof
too I was one of the other ones who was
like what is that material
um so seeing a picture of it helped uh
it looks sort of yeah it looks like a
just a wider metal panel sort of like a
roof panel almost
okay so we are saying he can go back and
talk to the uh the homeowner about a
different roof line
um
and if that does change is that okay
that Karen makes a change or are we
asking him to come back I just saw 30 of
them on their websites I would be fine
with that you're fine with that I agree
three okay
okay so uh what are the findings in fact
the findings the fact and decision of
the board for application number
arb-23-12 for property located at 2724
Bellwood the architecture review board
finds that the proposed three season
fourth edition to the rear of the house
is architecturally compatible with the
existing structure and further moves to
approve a certificate of appropriateness
as submitted with any minor
modifications subject to approval by the
design consultant
do you understand the findings of
practice
did you mention the the skirting
oh and the addition of skirting around
the the lattice skirting
additional security
okay do you understand
um is there a board member then that
will make a motion so moved Cross Key
second Scott
and we'll call the roll Mr hire yes Mr
Scott yes
yes
you are approved thank you good luck
our next order of business is
application ARB 23-13 the address is 272
North Stanwood the applicant is Brian
zingelman the owner is Matt and Amy
Christ
the applicant is seeking architecture
review and approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story addition
to the home
okay this application is before the
board for the first time
um
Brian 21
like police up
your name Brian singleman do you
solemnly swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes thank you
is there is there a way to rotate these
put your iPad flat on the table you can
rotate it without it really yeah
nice oh yes
brilliant brilliant I never knew
fifty percent of
yep all in
um and also I just figured out how to do
it
okay got it right all right
um this stuff
this is before the board for the first
time I mean I think it um looks okay I
had several board members that just
wanted to talk through some of the
details and Ryan if you want to go ahead
and walk away
um basically what we have is an existing
story and a half house
um can you go back to the
photo
and where the umbrella and patio table
is is where we're proposing the addition
kind of filling in that l
coming off the corner of that one story
den and coming off the corner of the
one-story family written there
um the first floor of the Edition is
going to be a half bath and a mud room
and the second story is a closet and
bath
to add to an existing bedroom to create
a master suite
um
we're proposing new siding on the entire
house when it's finished and new Roofing
on the entire house so the addition in
the house will all match when they're
finished
and did you use that in the paint color
yet
pink color did that change
we're still Gray
and
is there any other board member that
wants to speak about this application
I'm sorry audience member
yeah okay is there a board member that
would like to go first
sure I'll go I I really like the project
I'm happy for you I think it's going to
look really nice and I think you've
picked some good materials and I I have
no comment no further comments on it
okay
Mr higher
so I'm wondering if there's a way to get
those bathroom and
closet Windows to be
something different
because they're just so tiny
up there on the East Elevation
they look they just looked out of scale
with the house
and I don't know if it's because I know
they're on a kind of Dormer condition or
a wall dorm or whatever you know you've
that condition there it just they just
feel odd
fight with both I think both yeah I mean
if I look at the plan I see and I know
you want privacy
um where's the where's
yeah
so you know the one is sort of
straddling the the sink or the vanity
and the other is over a
cabinet
but I just wonder if there's a way to
you know increase them or I mean their
height
if the if for instance if the window in
the event in the bath moved up
and then was able to come down so that
it was
you know counter height instead of up
here
and then
do the same with the closet window
and then maybe in between there's a
panel or something just to you know make
those two windows work together in some
way to make it feel like a bigger part
of the elevation right now they just
feel like these two little eyes that are
on that
um I think we have more leeway and
flexibility on height than we do on wet
just because of the the floor plan and
utilized in closet wall space yeah but
we we do have available height
yeah easily an option but keeping them
yeah I've got inches on the width you
know I could play with and then in
between could you could you put a panel
there or something to tie them together
just so it feels like a bigger
because all the other windows like your
other Dormers have they're all window
right and here you have just these
little things it's also going to be here
horrible light
you're gonna be happy you did a bigger
window
um
so that was my that was my really my
only comment with that I mean and I
would just
um the gray color a lot you know a lot
of those gray colors they look they wind
up looking blue they don't look Gray
so be very careful because if you go to
if you're looking for a blue gray
you know I guess that's your prerogative
I I just don't think they look good
right
um but if you want something that's more
of a warm soft gray then you need to go
more towards the pewter types of colors
so they're warmer
um
I'm just you know weathered wood almost
or a popular name right weathered wood
for the brown in it because I just think
the gray colors especially in GAF and
some of the siding materials they wind
up feeling really cold
so yeah and I'll leave it to other board
members to talk more but those are my
only comments well right now we're
tentatively thinking the the factory
painted already plank
so you're a little bit Limited in some
of those colors and before we make a
final decision I would get actual
samples and they have very gray what's
that they have very they have a warm
gray yes it's not yeah I mean a wonder I
wouldn't pick anything based on those
little yeah no of course not never
submitted whatever I just want to eat
every day explain it wasn't blue or
green or red it was great we have a
print with a gray roof yeah but see like
you know in the color chart here even
with the scan after having been scanned
a few times the Aged pewter looks more
like a warm gray to me and the rich
espresso actually looks like a dark warm
gray which is probably not so yeah but I
mean I just be careful with the blue
grays and even the roof the oyster gray
that's there I mean
you know I think we'd be willing to
submit actual samples or whatever to or
work with Karen yeah and we're concerned
about you putting samples on your site
for your in the different lights of day
yeah for your clients more than just
submitting them to me well like I said
we would get actual color samples yeah
but I would do that make sure that you
look at them outside in different put
them out for a few days when we're
having overcast fire skies and when
we're having rain and sun yes um because
these two colors look so similar to me
on paper that I don't I think it might
look all washed out like I think you
might want a little bit of variety you
absolutely do you want contrast you want
a darker roof in that Essence so and I
get that the sage is maybe feeling dated
and old and all that and you want it
freshened up but I think it's one of
those big decisions Brian you know that
in three or four years time you know you
look back and you go wow why did why did
we choose that color right well and like
you said sometimes Gray's you know turn
blue or get some pink or yeah the chain
I've seen Grays that have purple in them
[Laughter]
we'll go back to the elevations so is
that a yes on purple
don't laugh we've had that
those are my only comments
so yeah I agree with the upper windows I
think uh banking them together meaning
penalizing what's between the two
windows and stretching a little bit I
don't know if they need to get any wider
and I agree with you you get strengths
in there right having it half on and off
of a counter is going to be weird on the
inside Space so if you can shift shift
it off the counter that would be better
it's just when you walk in it'll just
not be aligned and I'd lose sleep at
night I might tonight just knowing that
this is drama
you'll be you'll be happier if it's not
um in the closet is less of an issue for
me but there's also an interesting
detail of bringing that window down to
that that counter or that cabinet in the
closet and having it integrate with a
little piece of trim and then it's like
it's all together and depending on what
the top of that's going to be used for
if it's sweaters then maybe not but uh
you know it can be a really interesting
architectural detail that really kind of
dresses up that closet so
the only other question I had really was
and I think
for the amount of square footage of the
addition that you're putting on this is
like the smartest little addition I've
ever seen I mean it's I guess let's
spend the least amount of money on
foundation work is get the biggest bang
for that buck and I think you've done an
excellent job of doing that so uh well
there was some unusual geometry there
too no and I think it's wrong it does it
without six offsets I think you've done
a great job of not destroying the the
aesthetic of the house so I think that's
good
um my only question is go back to the
elevations for me please
is the little the window on the south
elevation that's in the bathroom
is it seems like it's kind of it's the
like the left one
octagon shapes or different you know
types of Windows that might have a
little charm to that elevation well
right there maybe a little round wire
reasoning was that side faces the deck
there's still going to be a deck and
seating there with a bathroom
or if the windows open and the sound
travels out yeah
it's not a condition that I think I get
that uh it just feels a little bit
crammed in the proportion of that uh
South elevation so
um I'm okay with that because you know
actually has a quirkiness and things
like that but it just feels like it
wants to move or change shape and be
next to that door but it's more of a
conversation piece thing
thank goodness because I've heard some
rough artist systems here tonight but
you were they were probably thinking
what's going to happen when I go up in
front of them
there was fear and you heard it it's
like this
you have Brian
he gets it well and I think if this was
the front of the house I mean the the
the stop elevation on the up the second
floor is a is a big blank you know
triangular shape yeah
um but in on this side and on the since
it's on the back side of the house uh in
essence
I'm kind of it's not really it's kind of
fun I guess
um it still works so I think it's an
extension of what's already there so I
think it still is on the same flavors
I just feel like that window on the is
in that bathroom just seems a little
it's not centered on the wall which I
get because I'm looking at the floor
plan
in it
has the opportunity to be next to the
door but I get it if it's a privacy
issue then
I don't have the window
should that window potentially be
smaller
or an accent type thing or to free up
the wall space make it not look
no I think it's I mean I think it's it's
a lot I think it's in a little unique
location that it's allowed to be a
little a little different so I don't I
think it's fine okay
during what I missed I
oh we got everybody okay
um I think it looks great thank you um I
have nothing to add
um so are we okay with these small
changes to go back to parent I am
overall nodding in agreement so I had
findings of fact Wyndham window
modifications on the second floor was
there something else I missed I think
you can just put workout design details
with the design consultant yeah window
details were really all we discussed
all right so I have defining it's a fact
the decision of the board for
application number
arb-23-13 or property located at 272
North Stanwood the architecture review
board finds that the proposed two-story
Edition
the house is architecturally compatible
with the existing structure for their
moves to approve a certificate of
appropriateness with final design
details to be reviewed and approved by
the design consultant
so move Strasser right do you understand
the findings of practice they ever read
yes
this dresser so move Strasser
second Scott
we'll call the role Miss dosser
yes Miss kraske yes Mr hire yes Mr Scott
yes Adam Tony yes you are approved thank
you good luck with your project good to
see you you too okay our final episode
ever again
Never Say Never but see you next month
Brian
all right our final application for the
evening is ARB 23-14 the address is 205
South cassingham the applicant is Ken
Williams and the owner is Jonathan and
Kayla George the applicant is seeking
architectural View and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for in
addition to the rear of the house
okay this application is also before the
board for the first time and like a lot
of the projects before us I think it's
just almost there there's some window
alignment issues that I think we're
probably going to talk about and
clarification on materials because
um there just wasn't a lot of labels on
the drawings I'm sure they're listed in
the application but we tend to look at
drawings so I'm gonna just bring the
applicant and whoever else wants to come
up to be sworn in
um
now you've seen how this goes yes so um
let's start the discussion please state
your name Ken Williams do you solemnly
swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
yeah thank you
Leah just gives a little presentation on
your project we're adding excuse me a
second floor to an existing first floor
and that will allow for a primary Suite
to be added in a full bath and closet
into that space
changing the hallway and from the second
floor to access that that space
uh decreasing one of the bedrooms by the
width of that hallway
um the addition that we're doing is kind
of nestled back behind the house it's
not something that you can see from the
front
um we've gone through as we've worked
through the design a number of these
window placements
um just to accommodate things you're
you're seeing the the floor plan now and
it's listed as a master bedroom you can
see Windows flanking the the bed on both
sides and then a mirrored across and
that's that's where you're talking about
the alignment issues
um and I've taken pictures of the
adjacent properties and there's a
hodgepodge of Windows of course on the
sides of some of these older homes
um so it may not be our first uh
preference but it is something that
works for the the space
um so of course we would like to to
proceed as as the drawings are shown
okay is there anyone else in the
audience that wants to speak about this
application
they they are the owners I think this
motion which is a no so is there a board
member that would like to go first
yeah
I'll go
um
there's so much potential here on in
this house there's so much richness to
the design of this house it's a
beautiful home
I know it's been aluminum sided and and
all of that
um but it it the the way that all of the
shapes and Pieces come together on this
house there's a reason if you go to the
second photo
that's in the or the sorry the first
photo that's in a in the package
that first photo really reveals yes
okay so you have a shed uh condition
with these beautiful arches and then
next to that you have a two-story
section that has what we call localized
symmetry right so you have a single
window on the second floor that's
centered over two windows on the ground
floor that was all intentional by the
architect or Builder okay and it's a
very limited area
that's what gives this house so much
character is you have these limited
areas where they're doing these kind of
moves
what you're proposing it doesn't have
any of that
and it's because it's being driven by a
master bed
and so I think you're losing you're
you're losing the potential here to
really make something that has character
even though it's the back of the house
um I think Bexley Prides itself on
additions that are put on the back that
nobody else can see that have character
that's one of the reasons why we're here
um if we thought that the things on the
back of the house didn't matter we
wouldn't be reviewing this it would be
going to the design consultant and that
would be the end of it so if you're
going to add character to this second
floor how do you do it
I would suggest
one option would be to leave the eve
condition you'll see this on a lot of
bungalow houses you'll see it on
Craftsman houses
where the eve of the of the first floor
on your Edition on on the back portion
um you leave that in place or you
recreate it so that you have this little
skirt
so between the first and the second
floor there's simply a skirt there it
doesn't have to have a gutter it's just
a skirt but it adds character that's
going to you know break up uh
the area and give it give it some kind
of detail because otherwise it just it's
just a you're just putting a second
floor on something and it's because
there's a master bed and we had to put
these windows here the other option
would be to make this
a one and a half story meaning that the
second floor that you're adding would
have a shaped roof to it not just a
Gable that's high enough to miss all the
and have an eight foot ceiling but
something that would give character in
the rooms where the windows became wall
Dormers which is what your neighbor has
okay
then you have character without you know
doing the skirt but you're doing stick
framing instead of I'm assuming you're
doing trusses for this
correct yeah correct so you're talking
about additional cost but you're adding
a ton of character and at that in that
case because the windows have their own
little roofs
and the walls come up like halfway up
the window and then the roof goes up in
between them it doesn't matter where the
where the windows are because the
Dormers give all that character
so
in my mind
uh and I think it's driven partly and I
mean I wouldn't do this for any house
but I just think this house has a lot of
character a lot of it's been covered up
you know maybe many owners ago I don't
know but
um I hate to see a house with this kind
these kind of proportions and this this
kind of character just getting up second
floor with with no with no character
so I strongly
suggest that you know there there may be
some details I think the design
consultant understands what I'm saying
it's just a matter of refinement
and I don't know that it's necessarily
going to be a budget breaker I'm just
talking about really detail if I'm the
roof thing is a little more but if your
client is open to it it would give a ton
of character and I think it would be
something that you can look at from your
patio and say wow you know that's that's
a really nice addition to my house
that's those are my only comments
if I can respond that the picture that
you you showed would be the the South
elevation
um we are rearranging the uh the kitchen
and the dining room on the interior just
to make it a bit more modern
um so the current dining room is going
to be the future kitchen so the two
windows that you see there are being
removed oh yes I see that now on the
drawings you see that they basically
have been removed
um I think your suggestion for something
like that
um that and being in that space would
would help to add you know a little more
detail
um you know the recess portion back you
know I can appreciate some some
additional detail back there we are
going to remove all the siding on that
back section on all three sides
and we have planned to put a a smooth uh
hearty cement board there
um you know the roof line does add a
level of detail but certainly uh the the
cost
um is is going to be somewhat
substantial we've we've added a few
things we've changed a few things so
we've from where we started initially
we've we've uh injected quite a bit more
money into the project than originally
planned
um welcome to Bexley yeah yeah uh well
it's uh they're you know making it more
livable for them as well
um I I think maybe some
um you know another detail of some kind
we we were going to replace the with
those two windows that you see that are
on the first floor with the existing
siding from the back so going away
correct
shifting from are you Shifting the one
on the other side we are we are yeah so
upstairs there's a window moving to the
centered of um the window over the sink
so like that where are those plants so
rear elevation
yeah above the new yeah so the new The
Window Up Above is Shifting is that
shifting or is that a new no it's it's
shifting because that is in that that
wall space
so you're gonna infill
on the existing house with the removed
right that's that's the plan for now
their their future plans is to replace
all of the siding it is Aluminum I think
it's 10 inch
so
that's their their plans we've thrown
some numbers around already with that
but that's probably a phase two
that that window that you have in the
corner I'm looking at the plan now on A1
but
that that's going to be a long-term
maintenance problem you're right at the
corner of the building
if you did a
if you did a shed Dormer you know over
the top of that with the rest of the
roof you know lowering
you have a more controllable water
condition I think than if you just have
this window and then a higher Eve
condition it sounds weird but I've seen
these windows done on the edge of a
facade like that and they run the roof
just goes over and it just hits the the
the the rising wall of of the two-story
area
and now you have all this protection for
that window in that corner but when
you're you're when your Gables up here
you know it's just
I don't know about this window right
here
yep
and now you've lost my whole arguments
moved because you're losing that
localized symmetry on that facade which
gives the house character
I think it's unfortunate I really do
um I think that there was so much
potential here for putting an addition
on where you retained and actually
enhanced the character of the house and
I see it being lost
so those are my that's those are my
thoughts
oh do you I mean do you have to lose
those two windows where you've taken
them out at the kitchen like yeah with
the kitchen layout I think the first
floor plan will show that
it's unfortunate and that's for upper
Cabinetry or correct even if you just
did one window if you're gonna do all
that work you did one window in the
middle rather than the two windows on
the side and had it centered below the
window above it I mean and you can still
get lots of cameras be above the
countertop and
Just Adjust maybe where a few things are
there I I would I would look at that I
um it's sort of a shame that they're
going away that was sort of a really
nice elevation uh so I would just ask
that that be looked at again the other
the other thing is I agree with uh the
comments for the windows upstairs in the
master bedroom especially the ones that
are very close to the existing building
I mean that that's going to be very very
hard to deal with and so if there's any
I don't know if like the ones on the the
what I'm going to call the west side so
that's the side that has
uh the two larger windows that are 36
like I don't know if they need to become
like maybe the 30 by 62 to
you know I I don't know but um like and
then they're just they're misaligned
with before with below and then the back
window there like you have a nice
situation on that rear elevation to the
right where you have the window that
you're shifting centered above your
window below but then on the on right on
yep right where she's pointing you have
this like off kilter window over where
you have the window below so I you know
it looks like you have the ability to
potentially like adjust that or look at
things to adjust I mean that is your it
looks like a is that your sink
is that the sink on it is it's a trough
sink there so I mean it looks like you
may be able to shift it but I you know I
think you just need to look at it a
little bit more and
see if you can still achieve what you
need down in that kitchen and and gain
back you know some windows and and I
don't you know I'm not sure what's
underneath the island for storage or you
know things like that just just look at
look at the kitchen a little bit more
too well I have um faked a lot of
windows in the past
um either with uh brick or you know
as brick Sills and all of that but we
could do it in a in a wood trim detail
and then put shutters over the space
that would be closed if that's
um I think said something you can do no
not for I don't think no because you
don't have shutters anywhere else it
doesn't make it yeah this
the kitchen only has three windows
that's all it has I mean from One
Direction you know right and and what
we're seeing especially today is you
know more light being look at this
beautiful light that we have you know
it's it's actually Ohio it's overcast 60
or 70 percent of the year
and you know to have all of that light
and and especially that view you know
the kitchen is command Central right for
for the cook and uh the fit for the
family and why not why not bring more
light into the space why not try I mean
even if you're modifying those windows
so that they're above counter height and
then moving your appliances you know
like your range in order to accommodate
that but I mean
well and I think go back to the plane
real quick and this is good too I think
the the eating area as a single window
it's existing which but then this
elevation looks like it's small so
that's going to be pretty dark in the
kitchen uh and eating areas it's not
going to be on a sunny day you won't
feel sunny
so I would I would either and I know
that if cabinet space and storage is
important I understand that you know
maybe
you're going to lose those two but I
would definitely look at putting
something within over an eating area and
expanding that window Bank
um if that's true because here it looks
wider and if you go to the elevation it
looks like it's a smaller window if I'm
if I'm picking that up right
is that window is that one there am I is
that correct or is it under the other
just cut off
yeah I think that is correct
so if that's true that seems like a very
small window it is yeah it is small uh
you may want to look at making that
eating area having really brightening
that up a bit
it's not elevation so it looks a little
maybe it's a little wider still a single
window so I that's it it's a short
window it's over the existing something
something to consider oh that's a short
window that that's where the kitchen
used to be correct oh there we go okay
but please please no please
please state your name
you saw me swear or firm the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth
yes I think right is that current eating
area
the new eating area right is the correct
kitchen which is right that they hang up
and it's
currently really difficult right really
tiny small window extremely dark shaded
area already that story for Chris so you
know that right way we're thinking we've
that's not gonna
be okay for our Fame
um and so we're like how can we open it
up get more light in
um and so we made a decision let's let's
switch those we can and we can have that
current location which is very small and
opposed then be be the eating area and
open up the kitchen uh to the rest of
the home as well
um you know where
you know we I agree with a lot of that
we've kind of wrestled with that right
the windows
you know how do you keep keep as much of
that character as possible
um you know but just to give context to
the reasoning for the switch the current
kitchen is really
I mean it's borderline useless it's
really actually I don't think anybody's
saying that that's not a good idea right
no we're not I think the challenge is
the balancing of what your needs are
because you have kitchen knees and
things that you want and
um you know wall cabinets are incredibly
important I think there's an existing
wall that separates what's listed as the
uh eating area that is being removed the
opening from the existing living room
into the kitchen is being enlarged so
that will allow some of that light from
the windows from the the living room to
enter also
um
it's my turn I just kind of started the
conversation
your window and the master bath that's
adjacent to your counter
here's another one of those contemplate
while you're laying down at night go to
the elevation real quick it's so close
did you look at trying to align it to
the window at least the left window
below
is it like six inches make that makes
that close enough that he doesn't hit
the counter
and scale that out and see see if you
can make it work is that I think that'll
help because you look at the windows
configuration the three that you put in
for the kitchen again you have a bigger
one above but it's lined up it's it's
very consistent with the ones that
you're taking on the side of the house
but it's that small mic you have a
limited area a symmetry
um but then the new window in the
bathroom is not doing that though if you
Center him on the left window doesn't
make it symmetrical
it at least makes it aligned I I would
agree with this uh grasky's comments
about the bedroom windows you have two
larger ones and two smaller one 36 to 30
seems strange and I think putting that
window in the corner is a bad idea
um so going 30 to all 30 inch Windows
would give you a little bit more room
um so that doesn't have to be a
symmetrical condition in the bedroom
um
I think you'll have less issues in the
corner of that house
and then I think this the bottom right
elevation oh bottom right elevation that
first floor
um which I believe is is existing
correct
um
is a big blank wall for your neighbor to
look at I mean those two windows help a
little but that's a
that's kind of a tough addition
um so I don't know there's there's
shrubs there but who knows that they're
going to be there in the future it's
just you know we don't like we look at
for me I look at these on a big plane
big flat site and you know what's
obviously what's happening on the inside
of the building is incredibly important
but that's a lot of siding without much
happening so
um I wasn't I don't remember exactly
what's happening in the plan but if
there's any opportunity to
there is a bedroom there on the first
floor right there's a bedroom
[Music]
back down so again you always maybe
punching a window that's under the other
the right one and just kind of breaking
up that facade one will bring some more
light in but um
I would really consider breaking that
down a little bit because it's a lot for
your neighbor to look at there's a
little bathroom there too so one of
existing smaller though in the bath
represented
in the bathroom or above the toilet
so that would help so maybe that's if we
can see that in a revision that would
help break that down a little bit I I
just think this needs
to go another
he's a couple of level yeah
yeah I really do I mean there's there's
so many comments here about the light
and you know the localized Symmetry and
you know the detail uh
and even things that aren't shown
on the plans or on the elevations that
should be
I mean I just think it I just think it
needs another level I agree to add one
more my first comment when I looked at
these I couldn't go to the elevations
again please sorry to flip-flop all over
the place I believe it can scrolled down
so we could see the door up to the what
I think is the existing porch is that
correct that's currently not in the
scope of the project right that because
in this drawing I want to see a handrail
on a railing and I would highly highly
highly recommend expanding that patio uh
off of your uh
you're kind of um back living room or
whatever that Dan I guess it was
if that was new construction there was
no way that you know we wouldn't let
that you know we wouldn't want to see
that dressed up a little bit I guess I
saw the photograph it's existing
um so my recommendation is to really
consider now that your kitchen windows
are facing that direction what
opportunity maybe in phase two because
again I don't know something we mandate
here but really consider you know maybe
there's a trellis that comes off the
house and then that becomes a patio that
you walk right out instead of down uh
steps to the driveway
because I think you have an opportunity
there that she could you know in a face
too or if you can get it in this project
that'd be great but to really kind of
activate this so then you have an
outdoor patio that's connected to your
kitchen because your smaller Windows
above your sink which you can see in and
out
um and then also gives you that little
bit more living area that's kind of
tucked in the corner of the house just
uh
an observation I saw but
a new right away is is really tight
through there it comes through there
yeah and it it angles going towards the
garage so it makes that area even more
narrow is that a new garage
that was not reviewed by us it just went
through the city
um it says proposed garage on the site
plan
that's that's very old probably an old
site plan that I provided so I needed to
find out what to do I was looking for
the drawing
are you doing a garage as well yeah the
garage is actually to the north
uh probably another two to three feet
than what it's shown right there
but again you know I didn't I didn't get
a chance to walk in your backyard and
say call that out but uh it's that the
patio idea is and I know it's tight but
it it definitely would activate that
corner because I you know even looking
at these you maintain your property
nicely and and that's just a tough
Corner because of all the things coming
on that's a way to kind of dress that up
and if nothing else I would recommend
adding a handrail just to kind of dress
up that stoop right just kind of give a
little bit more decoration to it
right
stresser I don't think we heard from you
on this one do you have anything to add
yes I I'm in agreement on this uh when
the the windows that are being removed
and it feels like you had a couple good
suggestions which was if we could do one
window the lines have nuclear one above
yeah one one window that lines up with
the above window or keep the windows
where they are but maybe just do smaller
so they're above cabinet height
uh even brow windows or something you
know architecturally interesting in the
in the kitchen itself or
uh you have some open shelving and then
open Windows above that but I think
it'll be hard for us to I I'm here I
think I'm hearing that nobody on the
board is uh really okay with those two
windows coming out
so I would say try you know it's it is a
big change because I understand it how
important the kitchen layout is
uh but sometimes we have to work with
the constraints of the house
well you can see the layout there
there's the the oven with the hood above
it doesn't really allow for anything
it's eight foot ceilings in there so
there's not going to be any space to put
anything above any any existing
Cabinetry
so we're just really limited
um
to add anything through there it's just
what what could we
what else could we do to that space
um is this where the kitchen is right
yeah
I think it's let me add I mean excuse me
I think it's if there was all the other
windows were perfect so then great I
don't think it would be an issue and I
think the issue is we've talked about a
lot about Windows trains and continually
refining that
I'm going to go on a limb and say I
think if everything else got tightened
up it was worked out and you kind of
brought some more light into the kitchen
maybe from the other where the heating
area is yeah I think there's some
balance there that you as a homeowner
are going to be much happier with and I
think you know we would we would as a
board would would work with you on
understanding that
enlarging your kitchen is an important
aspect of this renovation and you know
you need a log cabin any place to put
your stuff so I I think with the
arguments are going away but I get it
and I think there's the issue for us is
finding the balance on everything else
to tighten it up
I think
um we we changed that bath a bit the
size of uh the scenic area in the closet
so I think that window placement
um is just the the architect needed that
to fine-tune that a bit more
um
I I think
sliding those two windows in we are
repurposing some existing Windows
um they are nice wood windows so we do
plan to use those and match those
um so on that South elevation and that
back second floor dictionary I think we
could slide those in
um which
the the one that's in the corner then
would line up with that existing lower
first floor window You're Gonna Want a
little meat on that corner at home you
know you don't want to notice it right
against the wall so I think that's good
and then
um
I guess I'm gonna keep talking uh they
don't have to match right they don't all
have to be 30 inch Windows or they could
be 30 and 36 as you have them it's just
well those two are going to be new
windows and they will be egress 36 inch
36 inches so I I'm fine with that
they're opposite sides of the room it's
just so align them with the other side
you know a line just get the edge right
so the 36 comes in this way to the room
and this way right but you're aligning
with the 30 like one side of the 30 inch
on either side like on the opposite side
yeah I'm following you there yeah so
you're just decreasing the amount of
wall between those two 36 inch Windows
opposite the bed
I mean I don't know do you have like do
they have some large piece of furniture
on that wall that like is going to be
affected by that or I I think that was
just mirroring what was happening across
from it
um I just have one more comment and then
I think this is more for
um Ms bokor but
the the windows over the counter in in
the kitchen
you know there's lots of ways to do
those they don't have to be just
double hungs that are all just
proportionally smaller than what you
have on the rest of the house
there are ways to do you know more
horizontal
proportioned windows that are Hoppers or
casements uh that will we have Hoppers
we put hoppers on on our above our
kitchen sinks when we expanded our and
it led so much light in because you
don't have all these vertical lines even
though we have mullions in them the the
big the sash size is like this wide
but it's you know this tall
but they allow so much light in and if
you could find a way to do that instead
of just using three double hungs
you'll be you'd be really happy with the
amount of light that comes in you could
maybe find room for it on that um
on the side elevation heating area need
that small window I know you're you're
probably worried about budget but the
small window that you're leaving there
that's I mean it
the whole reason is you wanted to get
more light into your kitchen and now
you're having an eating area where
you've got this tiny window and I don't
I just don't think you're gonna like it
I think you're gonna feel the same way
in that space where you're going to be
like it's sort of dark to eat here and
it's not you know nice it's not
comfortable so explore that too with
that window
fixing that situation
um
yeah
um I just have a question just
clarifying your initial comments on the
overall architecture of that second
story where you were kind of referring
to
sectioning it off I guess if it's
something but I'm just trying to
understand imagine you take the roof but
leave the windows where they are you
take that roof and you pull it down
now you have Cathedral or shaped
ceilings in your in your bedroom
upstairs and each Dormer has its own uh
little pop-up roof because you left the
windows where they were they're still up
at the level you want them you're not
pulling them down too
so you've seen I think your neighbor has
this where they've got you know the the
Dormer it's like a wall Dormer meaning
that the window is on the main wall it's
not just sitting on the roof but it's
part of the wall but it has its own roof
um that just adds so much care to the
other suggestion I had was to just leave
the skirt between the two stories so
where you have a dashed line
between the two floors
um you'll see in a lot of bungalow and
Craftsman houses that they're that they
actually they continue
the eve okay we'll call it across there
and it just
adds a lot of the character and then
maybe on the back elevation instead of
it being just a plain old two story
they actually incorporate kind of a
false Gable or a gamble my neighbor has
this
um where you're just it's detail
character that's all and it's about the
Craftsman language it's about the you
know what your house was originally and
over time a lot of that's unfortunately
it's disappeared and you have a chance
to reclaim some of it your front
elevation is filled with all these
symmetries that we're talking about
right you've got the one window over two
you've got the chimney and then you've
got this entryway right with the one
window over that all three of them and
yet they're all tied together by this
beautiful asymmetrical Roof System
so
um
we have those on Main Street
watching the picture
but that that picture right there on the
far left was that was a just for him to
visualize
um
and we have them in our design
guidelines there's examples good
examples of Bexley wall Dormers in our
design guidelines the facade this
continues up straight when the window
sits the roof is pulled down and then
Dormers formed so that you can repeat
the windows and they're so beautiful
it's um not done a number of those in in
New Albany you do them over a carriage
Suite
different places but it is going to add
a level of cost to the house
um for four windows we have four windows
again I
think if we could think of another way
to I I like the the idea of carrying
that that roof line across
um that that's an inexpensive Edition
um to that space you mean the eve
continuing the eve yeah well and if you
if you bring it you could actually turn
it into a canopy that would be out over
that door
over there right so it's it's an eve
that's maybe a foot deep for most of it
and then it gets to that part over the
door and now you have this chance to
turn it into something architectural and
actually have it extend out more with
maybe brackets that now gives you
protection when you're coming in and out
of that door yeah no that's
it feels like it would really
make up for losing those the symmetry of
those two the one the two windows over
there
well that's that that's the problem I I
think we can we can dress up things and
add the character that you're referring
to we can't you know the the kitchen to
alter the kitchen significantly
um is is the big the big Challenge and
you know I I think we can alter some of
those things very inexpensively
it's just can we
um lose all of
I I
have some recommendations for you
um I I am an interior designer okay so I
if I were you I would rotate your Island
90 degrees I think you'll get a longer
Island and a few more cabinets in it and
you really won't end up using any more
square footage to do it
I would keep your windows but I would
shorten them above the counter you can
still put open shelves and things in
front of them you can put glassware
stack your plates and things you can
still get very usable shelving just make
a simple shelf it sits right in front of
glass you can take those windows right
down to the countertop so you can keep
that size the width the same but just
shorten it maybe those two windows get
reused over on the other side of the
beading area so you're not you're still
reusing windows and things like that
um but I and then maybe the window at
the over the sink gets a little bit
smaller but I think having light come in
from all those different directions is
what makes the kitchen fabulous not you
know average so I would think about all
those ideas and just try to think
outside the box what's another way to
store some things and and keep as much
light coming in as possible
um I I have a I have a problem with a
lot of the windows the ones that are
jammed into the corner it doesn't feel
like the character of this house I think
they need to get out of Corners
um so I think you just need to go back
and look at all of it and kind of look
at what the house tells you the window
should look like
and come back with a new drawing on how
that might lay out
because what I just think there's too
many issues right now with Windows and
too many long walls with no windows and
then
um and you're spending a lot of money to
pull windows out that
I think you just need to look at it
again to those windows go down to you
know 18 inches or so off the floor they
would they would have to come out
but maybe you could reuse those on the
other side and get two big Windows into
the eating area
maybe the one that's over that it's over
on the other side could be pulled over
and reused above the countertop
like I said I think you should just go
back and rethink the whole window
situation and
well I think you know as we look at the
window in the corner I think we're we're
in agreement about moving moving both of
those inward I do think they need to be
symmetrical in that that room but we
could line it up with the window I don't
think it's as important for them to be
symmetrical in the room is what it is
for them to look good from the outside
that is definitely the priority if they
look good from the outside there's one
window that's below and we would line it
up there it wouldn't be much to move the
other one in so it's the same distance
from that upper upper wall
um so that on the west elevation on the
second floor in the the bath itself
sliding that over is another easy thing
to do
um so then it leaves us with the dining
room
um
well it's not just the dining room it's
also the den where there's only windows
at the end
um there's the small Powder Room on the
or the bathroom on the first floor like
I said I I think you personally need to
go back and look at the bathroom on the
first floor
that has a window but not showing right
like ultimately I think we've we've all
stated
many things related to the windows and
the design and things that you should
consider and go back to the drawing
table with and I think we're to a point
where like that has to be just heard and
you guys need to work on that stuff so I
think at this point you'd be better off
to ask for a table and come back to us
next month with
the uh
yeah the drawings it is a young family
that is not living in the home right now
and they are living with family
um in in the Hilliard area and they're
anxious to get started on all of this so
I'm trying to accommodate them
um
I just don't think if you ask for a vote
you're going to get a guest vote tonight
because your drawings are too far off so
I mean it's your prerogative you want if
you would like to ask for a vote I'm
just trying this to to bring it down
into you know what we're what we would
want to change and then maybe I could
present something in the next week or so
and and then not have to wait a whole
week
that you can keep working on all that so
hopefully you wouldn't just um be
stopped in your tracks your project will
move forward once we get the windows
fixed so
of course
I mean you could all also you know at
your own risk submit instruction
documents and then based on whatever
decisions happen at the next meeting you
can make addendums to those plans to get
that process started
for the interior work I think we've been
very clear tonight on the concerns and I
think if you're willing to make the
revisions to the drawings and provide
those details
to Karen we can we can you know we can
review that and and then have your
recommendation on that progress I don't
know how we vote tonight specifically if
we I think we prefer a table well I mean
and considering some of the other
applicants that have been before us
tonight there's the potential that
the design consultant can work this out
and when this appears before the July
ARB we have a preview of it it might go
on consent it sense yeah I I don't think
you have that much to do I just think it
needs to be worked out right the time
thing is
it's just not a thing because
well we we have two options we can
either go for a vote and and see what
you get or you can table it to a date
certain which is in a month those are
the two options you don't lose time you
work the whole time during it you work
with me
so well it's working there is is that
the the challenge but they've they've
discussed they've talked about
shortening up the windows and what is
the existing dining room but would be
the kitchen and taking your
recommendation and keeping those in that
same space they would just be shortened
up to counter height
um the other
um the window in the corner you know
we've I've got that marked down the
window in the back on that west
elevation so then it leaves us with the
the proposed eating area the small
window it is on the north side of the
house there's two giant can I ask you
are you saying all this because you you
want us to take a vote
I do I do I I would like to
I'm pushing you obviously for their sake
I'm doing my work for them and you
understand that they don't vote no then
you start all over with a new
application I don't know that okay
let's be clear of the process
okay you can ask to be tabled which
means you've moved the next month if you
come back with drawings that we see you
get on the consent agenda like we
approved two two drawings today and you
can be doing work on that your
construction drawings and all that in
between
if you ask us to put it to a vote and we
vote no
this application is considered turned
down and you must start the process all
over with a new application which means
you must have a whole new design and new
notice period to the neighbors yeah so
you are better off to ask right I
understand right but I I wanna to go
forward knowing what you're looking for
in this and you know the eating area
seems to be
yes we could take those over it's going
to be you know an additional can that
discussion be with the design consultant
once you've been in front of the board
once and I'm I take notes I hear it it's
also taped you can go home and listen to
it right away on YouTube we know what to
work with we're not we're not losing
four weeks you're still moving ahead
it's just that the board wants to see it
again whether they actually even hear it
depends on how much progress you made
which means I wanted to be clear which
means you may submit your two weeks of
your revisions she sees it she sends it
out and to us and says hey they make the
changes I I recommend approval and we
can review that and put it on a consent
agenda so she will then tell you that
it's on consent agenda to keep you
moving forward in the meantime you can
do demo you can do you know work on
construction just because it's tabled a
month doesn't mean you lose a month and
we don't I don't think you're not I
don't think you're that far I think you
just have to and I'm not completely
convinced that there can't be some
interior change I've not been in the
house I don't know what walls are
removing not every municipality will
allow you to begin to do anything so if
you're telling me they're okay with
doing some demo typically when you
submit for your building permit it's
expected you're going to be in there
doing some demo work while your
construction documents are being
reviewed so that's as long as you guys
are okay we try working with you as best
we can whatever
conversations
um we just and I will make those changes
I can arrange a walk through review on
your building permit if you would like I
would do that
should speed up the problem yes
absolutely it turns 30 days into two
days for us to learn
I will do that
in 28 days right there
and we understand that you know but we
didn't
plan out when you submit it so we're
just trying to get you through but also
to make sure when it's done you're
understand the things we're we're trying
to help to make it a better problem
better process and
the neighborhood and what you guys do
my work hey you get you get you get
design kind of so from five perfect one
two three four five professionals
no charge right here so it's at the end
of the day you'll probably be very happy
I know it's like in pain what so if I
hear you uh we'll table this I'll get
you the information as quick as I
possibly can we're going to try to
submit for some
building construction drawings and
you'll do a walk through to help not
until it's important we could walk it
through the next day after the zoning or
the architecture review board meeting
next month but you can submit your
application
and work on demo work in the meantime
and then that I would I would work with
yeah if we will guide you through the
entire process
at your site I mean we're here the whole
time right this full meeting you've
heard that once I walked through the
site with uh the sun porch right
admission
it makes a difference like you know I
might be able to
see something else or understand
something differently
you know
so you could then get us this
consent but then it would go to the next
which is the third unless I think that
unless all things are yeah right we're
going to work to get there we're going
to work to get there but
um and then that vote on the 13th is set
right till I hear that correctly earlier
it's always second Thursday of the month
so that is the July 13th
July 13th and then you've got a
commitment here
I can schedule with their Chief Building
official on July 14th if you have your
construction documents at that time to
get an approval
okay
yeah they're approval book to table
the move to table did you like the board
member that will make a motion to move
so moved Cross Key second Strasser
Mr Scott yes Mr hire yes Mr croskey yes
Strasser yes Tony yes
okay
hopefully you get on consent agenda we
don't see you back here next yeah we
don't want to see you next month that'll
be a good thing and work with thank you
thank you yeah Karen is she's she's your
go-to she'll get you through this
wrong bag
are we recording