oh no what happened to it
did anybody just lose connection for a
second
I don't know foreign
why is it not on there
yes it's not good
foreign
we will call to order the March 9 2023
Bexley Arco review board meeting uh
Kathy can we call the roll
yes yes yes
uh the next
sentence I know that's my fault I said
March 9th so
uh this is the time of the meeting for
public comments if there is someone in
the audience who would like to speak to
the board about a topic that is not on
the agenda tonight uh this is just to
come forward and
um point to the board is there anyone
that would like to speak to the board
about a something that's on the agenda
tonight
okay seeing now
uh the next uh thing is of the minutes
from last month
is there a board member that will make a
motion to approve those so moved second
and I have one change to that Kathy
I sent it in an email
yes thank you
all members in favor
aye aye aye
okay
um so we have two items that were
originally on the agenda tonight that
are going to labeled they are
application
bzap22-42 and the address is 2834 Powell
Avenue the second application is ARB
22-58 and the address is twins Parkview
so we need to just
um vote to approve these to be tabled to
next month
so they will be table to the April 13th
meeting
so if there's anyone in the audience
that is here to speak about those two
applications they are being moved to
next month is there a board member that
will make a motion to a question
seconded
uh
strausser yes Mr Scott yes Miss croskey
yes Mr yes Madam Tony yes
we have three items on the agenda
tonight that are um up for uh our
consent agenda this means that the board
has reviewed these applications and
asked them to make either a small range
or no change and
um so these three application numbers
are ARB 2-65 and the address is 110
South Stanwood
application
bzap22-3 this is 73 South Dawson
patient news app 23-4 and the address is
183.
is there anyone in the audience that is
here to speak about any one of those
three applications
okay seeing none then I just board
member to
um motion to approve those on consent so
moved Scott seconded Cross Key
I'll call the roll Miss kroskey yes Mr
Scott yes Mr Steele yes Strasser yes
Madam Tony yes
okay our first application then to
review is
um part of old business it is
application of ARB 22-53 this is
2010 East broads
the applicant is Brent Foley and the
owner is the Catholic Diocese of
Columbus the applicant is requesting
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
renovation to the exterior and the
interior of the building and Karen will
give us some background on this
application
hmm
okay
um I'm gonna give a little bit of the
history historical background recently
on the process and then I'm really going
to hand it over to walk through kind of
where St Charles is in this redesign of
a part of the importance
um I'll try to be a little bit brief but
to start we got to this point
um oh boy in November
because during construction they there
were some issues with
um the groundwork and the the
pollination ends up not lining up like
they were supposed to with the pointless
so fast forward to January
um the board agreed that or who have
been talking about it
the solution of words that maybe some
kind of a node at the corner
um would be helpful in transitioning to
and think it's not so awkward when they
don't in a different place yeah it's
long fast forward to January
um
came to us with a solution that I think
we thought was on a good pathway
um but wasn't completely designed asked
for some time to ask for an approval
conditioned on the board individually
reviewing the solution via email in the
interim St Charles and Brett was going
to explain this way better than I can
into
um I think Charles has realized that
they really did not feel comfortable
that they had a proper entrance to the
Learning Center which is the second
approved building that is behind the
education center
um and decided that this would be a
great opportunity to use that corner
nudge a more clearance proper entrance
instead of just kind of a placeholder to
join the culinating together that
so that
that never really happened in the
divorce the board didn't get the
information that we needed Saint Charles
needed more time so here we are uh so at
a certain point I said well at this
point you just need to come back to the
board so that's where we are
um I'm going to give it to you to give a
presentation
why you're now kind of changing the
program and doing a different kind of
piece at that corner and then we can get
into the architecture
I think I'm loud enough
oh yeah make sure that your mic is on as
well yeah right state your name starting
with you sir Meg Ryan rightfully do you
solemnly swear from The Testament you're
about to give this evening is the truth
thank you
well good evening so before Brent goes
through and presents the deals um I
thought it would be important to give
some historic context from Saint Charles
perspective
so um and the reason I think it's
important is because what you have done
as a group
you've tried to work with us as we were
navigating our way through
budget schedule and academic condition
change so
and from Saint Charles perspective we
wanted to one acknowledge
the um the work that everyone has put in
that try to help us get to so that we
could
construct a build and not have a
negative impact to the academic calendar
and because the historic nature of the
building the structure the architecture
there clearly there's been you know you
have to be careful in regards to how you
handle design but also programmatic
requirements the reason we're here today
was your flexibility but also your
acknowledgment of some things that you
needed and then our acknowledgment of
things that we needed as we were
developing things right there's always
unintended consequences of decisions
that we make and here we sit today but
there was no ill intent but all that's
one from our standpoint the other thing
would I think would be of note is that
you know I've been coming to this
commission since 2001 for Saint Charles
the original master plan in 2001 I was
here and I've had the pleasure of
building that all the way through and
have been here all of those times this
being such a unique structure unique
need not what not with just the
convocation center The Learning Resource
Center and what we're you know probably
in you know one of the last major
developments that we're going to have on
campus I'm not saying it is the last but
one you know one of the last major
developments of course we're running out
of space you know the importance of
design and architect architecture become
really important which Brent will go
through that but I know Saint Charles
did not want to go without saying
publicly that we recognize everything
that you've done to help us get to where
we are the um the access to Karen has
been invaluable because without that we
wouldn't be here tonight
and I just think it's important as Brent
is presenting this information that you
understand not that this is
um going to influence your decision but
from Saint Charles standpoint we do
appreciate it Karen we appreciate your
time we appreciate appreciate the
commissions patience as we navigated
through that and that it would just be
best set publicly because absent have
all of that we wouldn't be where we are
today
yeah
I want to Echo everything Jimmy said and
he was only a couple years after I
graduated from St Charles but he showed
up there at the same time
um so I'm happy to be in front of you
guys again thank you for having us
um
from a
um
design standpoint Karen it might be
helpful actually to start with the
second slide which is the overall plan
but I'd like to do I'm sorry the second
slide on them yep yeah which is the
overall plan and I remembered my pointer
today just to re re uh acclimate
everybody on the parts and pieces of the
project so the main School building as
was originally built a shape here this
is the theater building the chapel that
we're added
um the Walter Commons that was built
here the space here which was the
gymnasium is where the new Learning
Resource Center will go this is the
convocation center that is currently
under construction multi-purpose
building and Natatorium you remember
when we started this journey for this
series of projects we were actually
talking about these parking lot
additions that happened back here and
those collaborations with those
neighbors that we had some challenges in
the beginning we worked through and
decided at that point to move the
convocation center over here uh which
gave us the opportunity and a lot of the
parking moved over here as well which
gave us the opportunity to create this
Plaza space here so the entrance for the
Walter Commons is right here the
entrance for the convocation center is
here and the Learning Resource Center is
really kind of nestled in it's kind of a
a ship in a bottle that we're trying to
build here uh and we thought it would
become very important to make sure that
we understood how this entrance here
worked so Karen if you want to move to
the next one
I do want to acknowledge too that this
site plan is the site plan uh we have
the particulars of the of the plaza now
but it Incorporated everything that we
heard at Planning Commission to about
incorporating uh pedestrian access
across here pedestrian assets across
here to get everybody where they need to
be to be in line with the plans of the
city
go back to the first one now Karen if
you don't mind
and so this is the enlarged plan uh The
Grotto space that's over here you may
have um is over in this direction you
may have heard and remembered us talking
about the importance of The Grotto to St
Charles it is a religious institution
it's a it's an important space on our
campus uh and what's nice is now that
the the courtyard space really becomes
These Arms I remember when Bill higher
was here talking about these arms that
embraced The Grotto space and look to
the to to the west where we can see the
sunset from a master plan standpoint
it's not part of this application but if
you remember we talked about creating a
Colonnade that would work all the way
around this Grotto uh to mimic uh and
become part uh similar to The Colony
that's on the front of the building I
know there was a question so I wanted to
clarify why does the colonnade pull away
from this building
part of the master plan and part of the
long-term master plan Jim Lauer says
will be built after he's no longer
principal is a is a um is a uh
Performing Arts Center here and we
wanted to create space here for that
space to expand to become a bigger
building in the future
um so I wanted to address that comment
there
um so if you remember on the large scale
plan
um we have pedestrian access coming here
we have pedestrian access coming here we
have access coming here as well as here
so the big move we made in the plaza was
to kind of come up with these two
circles that create a nice way for
people to kind of meander through these
will be tiered steps here that will be
also you know places that students could
sit this would be a very pedestrian area
we are able without ramps to kind of
work the Ada access down this way here
so that people can get all the way
through
and that leads us to this entrance here
which is really the new entrance to the
Learning Resource Center so again just
to reorient Walter Commons which is the
space many of you have probably been to
events to this is the entrance to the uh
the convocation center which is on
construction now love to take you all
for a tour anytime
um and this was the space that really
became in question when we were here
last time uh we took to heart a lot of
the conversation we were hearing and
tried to come up with something that
solves that this was the colonnade that
is taller and this this stepping
staircase speaks to the the great issues
that we were dealing with and this
Colonnade was intended to be the same
height as the front of the school and
that's why it became so much lower Karen
if you can move to slide number three on
that deck
so we wanted to include also just we
know you don't necessarily care about
the inside of the building but it makes
sense for us to show you what's
happening on inside of why this entrance
is becoming so important uh Convocation
Center is here Walter common is here and
this is the The Learning Resource Center
if we didn't make this the entrance to
the Learning Resource Center people who
were coming to the Learning Resource
Center would either have to come through
the commons come down through this
Corridor or they would have to come into
the the
um the convocation center and come
around this way the reality is
um that this is going to be a primary
access for guests during the day uh as
well as students when they come to
school and the people are coming along
Resource Center
um and so we needed to make sure we made
a space here I know also I will note
because it's here the vestibule we have
an alternative version that I have
printed copies of that bring that inside
the building and I'll pass that out in a
second and we agree with those comments
and we're very willing to to make that
change happen but so this is the access
uh the main access for everybody that
will be flowing in if there's a
basketball game if there's an event in
the convocation center people will be
coming to this entrance uh or if there's
an event in the in the um the Walter
Commons people will be coming in here
but every day most people are going to
be coming in this way so we want to make
sure we're marking that entrance
um just important to note because this
is different than before we've also
added this this this node on the back
here
um that is part of the Learning Resource
Center that allows us to get accessible
entrance uh what you may or may not know
is that the Walter Commons is actually
several feet higher than the Learning
Resource Center
um so this is our accessible entrance
now
um to get that ramp in place and provide
access along here this space here that
you're seeing is currently where the
tunnel is if you've ever been to St
Charles campus where you used to drive
before we added the access to the back
it's actually becoming a very important
part of the space we're actually going
to have glass garage doors here so that
this space can be open uh when when
school is going on but if you have an
event people could come through this
space and not get into the school so all
of this area is becoming very important
to the long-term plan
go then to the slide after the fourth
slide so these are the working through
the elevations of learning Learning
Resource Center we wanted to make sure
we showed it all the little
incorporations of the things that we've
we've changed a little bit along the way
most of these things are very minor
these elevations are essentially very
similar to the way they are were before
if you remember that the stair before
was a little farther different so this
is where that new stair the stair is now
this is that area I was talking about
where the the ramp and and accessible
engines would be
to move to the next one
um this is where we start to see so this
elevation is essentially no longer uh
exterior if you remember before this
this actually that tunnel was going to
be exterior now that we've moved it into
here the only portions of the South
elevation that really matter are these
portions of the the walls here uh where
it extends beyond the constraints of the
Walter Commons and then this is that
west elevation and our proposed new
entrance uh which I believe we have a
couple enlarged of as you know the next
one
and so we were pulling off of uh the
intent of if you if you happen to have
seen any of the renderings of the
Interior The Learning Resource Center
it's actually going to be a bit more of
a contemporary and modern space
um it's intended to be uh a nod or a uh
an update uh to the new types of
learning spaces Collaborative Learning
spaces uh laboratory classrooms and lots
of class and things like that so the
initial thought was to bring
a mixture of the the tradition that we
have at the school with the the front
entrance play as well and then bring it
a little bit more modern with the glass
so you are seeing that entrance here
this is the lower Colonnade and this is
the higher Colonnade so we're and we'll
get to a rendering here in a second but
that's how we're trying to resolve I
know the last time we were here this was
the this was the point of discussion
right how do we resolve how we create a
node where there's two things come
together to resolve it and we really
looked towards the front of the building
to think about how they do that because
that's actually what we're doing
traditionally here as well
so you can see the enlarged elevation
and here it is in scale with the
entrance to the convocation center which
is currently under construction
next one please care
and then acknowledging what happened uh
the first time uh when when this became
lower and it it wasn't realized until
when we were in construction we wanted
to make sure that we included the
axonometric drawings of everything so
you were looking here at a perspective
use this is the new Learning Resource
Center in background this is that that
new node this is the archway of the of
the um of the convocation center the
existing Archway this is that area in
the back uh this is seeing it from above
and then seeing it from the back side as
well and then if you want to go to the
renderings
I don't know do you have both loaded
okay so that's this is the
okay boo
yeah so this is this is what what was
originally presented
um when this was all you know lowered to
accommodate the great change
and this is there's actually two
versions Karen I don't know if you have
them both I have yeah I haven't printed
if not this is we realized that there
was a discussion Point
um about
um
potentially making it look more
traditional like the original Archway in
the front and so we wanted to explore
that option we were here uh one time not
too long ago where you probably had an
architect who brought a couple options
for you to see what they looked like so
we thought that would be helpful
um I think we do so this is the revised
one
here
I'm going to hand out the I've got on my
feet that would be helpful
I knew this
so it's the same exact rendering
um
actually I'll hand this out with it as
well this is the floor plan that shows
how we've worked the the uh the best of
the old paas uh
for sure
foreign
we do prefer the glass option
um but you know we wanted to hear your
comments and think about the other
option as well
with that I'll entertain any questions
um you know anything you need for me I'm
here
Karen did I miss anything
there it is yeah
for you before we open up to the board
if I could just um kind of for the it's
a big audience so I just like recap my
staff reports that
um the board has already seen
um but I I do think I still think that
the node is the right move when I
understand from programmatics right now
I think that was helpful for you to show
us because clearly didn't have an
entrance right
um so I think it's the right solution
um to me the issues I'm still having and
you already addressed the big one which
is that
I think it's way better pushed in
um and and now that I see both of them
in Brick and in glass I'm kind of
neutral first line over which one
um the board members may not agree with
this this point at all but I think one
of the problem with Abel it was if it
was a hip or you know match the I don't
think you included on this oh yeah did
it it was a better end point that
matched better there's something about
things to lean towards the entrance
this looks like a it doesn't get a
different language to me
um other than that I I would just say as
a staff recommendation I would support a
conceptual approval with understanding
that this Board needs to be a full set
of drawings to understand how things go
together inside would you have to
produce for construction anyway so you
know my goal would be to get a good
conceptual you know designed
Direction
no good blessing and have to come back
back in some way with a full-sided
drawing so that we can understand from
every angle this is the best view of it
obviously that's why the renderings are
done with it
um the the other
thing that I'll just throw out there and
this just needs to be a condition that
to the plaza would need to go through
for review from our City's Landscape
Architects okay and or I don't know the
true Republicans missions
um but that that wouldn't be part of
this approvement
yes if I could just speak to one part of
that the the thought of the Gable and we
debated that
um is is speaking towards that front
entrance of the school where the two
Colonnades come together and you have
that piece and that was the decision uh
and then trying to
speak to the language of the other
entrances as well so that's what's
driving it I understand the opinion no I
know that's it I will now be quiet thank
you
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about this application
there are a lot of people here
okay thing one uh is there a board
member that would like to go first
no
sure
uh well thank you for uh coming back and
um with the additional Graphics
um and some of the history I think this
is much appreciated and we appreciate
the efforts and understand that on a
project to scale and there's so many
complexities that uh do have to come
together in a line and we're we're happy
to continue working with you and are
thrilled to see it moving forward
um I am partial to the to your alternate
here uh I like the the added brick to
the facade to me it balances out
um on this elevation the kind of uh the
other details that are there there's
some scale issues I think on your your
Gable rake and that don't match they're
the thickest smallest and the thickest
versus the other cables that are
existing in the convocation center so I
would recommend looking at that a little
bit but I actually really like the kind
of the brick Arch and then having a very
modern if you were kind of I get the
modern kind of idea here but to me it's
a you're doing a modern facade but then
a gable roof so to me there's kind of a
conflict there it's not really you're
not putting them kind of a modern take
on a well you could be but in a sense it
doesn't work for me so I like the brick
but then you know maybe that's all but
glazing or something so that's really
kind of an open you know kind of nods to
the open Arch so I think there's ways
you could do on the storefront
um and and the details for that I really
appreciate that you pulled the vestibule
in I really thought that was kind of an
oddball
um and I totally get the programming and
that that's an entrance I totally agree
that that's the great the best move and
I think the hierarchy also because you
do in this view specifically because
this is what you're showing you have
these kind of three gabled ends and
there's a hierarchy and it's it's not
competing but it's also you know has
some prominence to it so I think that's
you know hey internet the smallest Game
Land you know I think there's a great
way of getting people and navigating
through that so I think I don't have a
problem with with any of them in support
of of this latest version and uh you
know obviously seeing the specific
details and things and the drawings
aren't up to today with this I
understand that uh so I would want to
see that but definitely fully support
where you're moving on this option the
one question I do have is how do you do
is that a curved ramp on your other side
of the building yes how do you do curb
ramp
carefully okay we're working through
that you can build that
okay
that's your cross slopes but okay yeah
yeah nice no you're right you're right
we've done it that'll be great to see
but other than that you know Landscaping
the the whole site plan and that the
kind of formality of that like you're
trying to do a lot in that Landscaping
plan but uh it's really not part of our
jurisdictions per se so I don't have a
I'm on either curve steps and things
that are going on there a little foreign
to me based on the kind of formality
that you're moving towards on this even
with the future Colonnades
um the one question I have is the the
the the future columns that are uh added
is there an issue why is there an issue
why you're not doing that now since the
construction is happening at the
convocation there's it's a budget it's
the budget issue
what would be what would drive doing
that in the future I get the the South
one because of the expansion maybe of
the the southern building but what would
drive you to just be a part of that when
when this is built just to finish the
court and then this would kind of close
it in the top one we close it in yeah to
kind of Define in that space and those
would be covered yes they would be the
same as the front of the school
basically yeah
so you know that would be my only you
know obviously the the feature we can
agree that that's something that should
happen but can't control that really so
um other than that I
I don't have a specific comment on the
Landscaping other than the kind of curvy
steps that you got working in there I
know you have an elevation change you
got to deal with and there's a lot going
on so
um be interested to see how that further
develops but for me the the architecture
of the entry and the location and the
programming all works for me thank you
is there anyone that wants to go next
Mr croskey yep so uh I'm in agreement
that uh go back to the version where
there's more brick and there's a yep
this version is much better
um It just fits better with every like
your other entries with everything else
that's going on with the exteriors that
you're building
um I I get I understand you guys like
the more glassy one better but it just
it it's too thin like the
brick portions on the right and left are
too thin the
vestibule popping out was a little weird
it just this is a much more elegant
solution to the node and the entry issue
that was
you know presented and then what we
discussed previously so I I would
advocate for that
and uh I I don't have any other comments
I think it's coming together nicely
especially with the plaza so thank you
next
I can go
um I was not here I think the most
recent presentation I think I missed it
so I'm trying to pick up on some of the
comments that were made before but based
on what I'm seeing today I have to agree
that the
the more fulsome entrance is far
superior
and uh I I just want to thank you for
listening to the board and taking the
comments because it's a cost it's a
delays sometimes and we I we greatly
appreciate that you're listening and
putting the best foot forward because
you know nothing's perfect and there's
budgets and there's elevation changes
and everything else and sometimes things
don't go exactly right during
construction so the progress is
wonderful and
um
from the scope of our mandate which is
you know a reasonable approach to the
review of architecture and not mandating
a particular style or a particular
result but just trying to get a a result
that is acceptable to the city is I
think we're there
Mr Steele
um I agree everything they've said I
think
the All Glass option doesn't really
solve the point of
this corner piece is not only entrance
now but it's also kind of hiding the
fact that you have the great change and
I think the glass one kind of brings
that to light actually and this hides it
better
um and creates you know that sense of
welcome that all the entrances to the
school have they're going through
something very hard very strong a brick
entrance just like the main entrance on
the front so I think this is the way to
go
um
I agree with with what Pete said about
maybe a little bit some stuff on the
rake some of the overhangs and things
but then that I think it looks really
good
thank you
and I'm probably odd woman out
I think it still needs a lot of work I
think you have taken something that was
kind of a mistake in the way that it was
built and you're trying to now make it a
focal point
which I get because you really want an
entrance in that spot
but I feel like there's a lot of
problems that don't show up in your
rendering if you remove the tree from
the right side those two roof lines that
come in at different heights to me are
going to be incredibly obvious
and for an element like that to me it
should be symmetrical
so
I almost in my mind wonder if you would
have been better off to rotate that
element and let it be a part of one
Colonnade or the other yes and maybe you
even have to lose one of your arches
in order to get at the size that you
want it to be so that it can have enough
presence that it says I'm a really
important element and you want to enter
the building here
once it gets turned I feel like it's
perfectly normal for those two sides to
come off at different heights
but I think it's weird this way and I
think that you all of your drawings kind
of hide that but with either a tree or
when you show it here you Fade Out
you know the Colonnades to the right and
I think in real life it's going to be
weird you can see it here
so so it's interesting because I believe
the option that we came with originally
was the Gable arch in line with this
Colony kind of in this space and the
feedback we got was it feel like felt
like it was all jammed together so we're
trying to respond yeah I think it was
Tiny and it felt jammed inside the size
I think it's the size of it that it
can't be a tiny element anymore if you
really want that to be your front door
it's got to be big and it's got to tell
people this is the real entrance to the
space and because it is kind of on
Center and at the back of your you know
your big circle and all that it it feels
to me like it should be your front door
but I don't and and I don't know that I
mean I actually like the one with a lot
of glass I I like the idea that it um
that felt more open and Airy
um
I I really but you once you start to put
an airlock in there and you try to do
that vestibule
I mean you're you're drawing a vestibule
that is so tight if you really had
students come and going and one of
them's in a wheelchair I don't know how
they're even moving through that because
your vestibule was so tight well we had
we would be it's a seven foot Festival
that would be code and it would have all
the code requirements and things okay I
think you're showing it better on the
drawing you brought today but that's the
that's the first time I've seen that run
Even in our packet we still have one
stuck out from the building and the
doors were tight in there with no space
on either side of them so
I I personally would like to see you do
a little a little bit more work to it
because I think it can be better than
what you've got and even with with the
way that you're drawing your roof um on
that can you go back to that rendering
you know if you really want that gable
roof like where is that gable roof
anywhere else in the on the buildings
like it doesn't it looks totally
different it looks really heavy compared
to the gabled roof to the on the
building to the left that has the it was
pulling from the if we went to the PDF
that had the picture example
was here there was one maybe maybe
towards the back
this this was the the precedent that I
was pulling from
but unfortunately then okay so maybe
it's just because of the way you draw it
it doesn't feel
delicate like that it feels heavy in the
rendering and it's white where
you know in real life it isn't white
it's more of a stone color so maybe
that's just in the details but in the
rendering it feels like that Gable is
the pitch of the Gable is different than
this because we were right we had these
other Gables we were trying to match the
the pitch uh
I don't think you need to Max those
pitch that pitch it's such a smaller
space that it makes it looks deeper that
I you know it may be lowering the pitch
a little bit
would help
I'd be interested to know uh how the
other board members feel in reaction to
the chair's comments
she's only one so would I
I want to know where I stand
laughs
so
it's easy to have a reaction and I'm and
I respect all opinions it's easy to have
reaction the challenge is we don't have
all things being equal here you have so
many different conditions that you're
trying to address and I think the the
idea even more now because I this was
something that I talked about early on
about this Tower in this corner to help
that transition break it up and figure
out how you can do it do it and it's
progressed into this you know now a main
entry to The Learning Center which I
think is programmatically makes perfect
sense and it makes that corner now even
stronger and purposeful
there absolutely could be ways to rotate
this and make that work and and other
things but I don't think that this is
not successful I do think you're doing
rendering tricks and hiding things that
you're emphasizing but but I understand
what those are and and I can visualize
that there are two different things
happening here I would love both
colonies to match right there's that's
that bugs me but I know that that's not
possible in this particular case so what
can we do and I think introducing the
mass in the corner is is a solid
solution to be able to say we have a
change we're we're trying to maintain a
flavor but we're allowing things to to
be modified based on the site based on
what's going on and what's under
construction already
uh if this if we were still in SD and
you were trying to get through and
hadn't you know hadn't built 80 of the
building you know we may have a
different conversation but I think we
have to be respectful of all those
different conditions in that same
sentence though or the paragraph you
know I I would I would if we were going
to explore anything I'd be I'd be
interested in is there anything you can
do on the on this particular view left
of the new Corner entry to change the
roof right I know we can't raise that
whole thing up I know there's other
things going on but you know can you
pick up in this area here yeah maybe
that's in in from The Pedestrian view
it's a parapet so that you're raising up
that the top of that wall so that you're
picking up the the eve of the higher
Colonnade on the right
but the roof just modifies if you recall
um just to help we had when we talked
about it before the challenge is this
this this roof here and if you was
coming into that roof it's how those all
interact so that was that was the reason
we felt that hadn't gone far enough over
it
and the build condition though so so I
I'm I'm still supportive of of what you
brought here tonight in your option two
um because I think I think it addresses
a lot of the different complexities that
are going on in the overall surrounding
areas of this entry
um rotating it I think I agree with that
concept that it allows the the colonies
to kind of hit us side of the of that
Tower right and but I think that then
has other issues that it de-emphasizes
that corner so now you have to enter
Under The Colonnade and that may be a
little bit more less obvious for people
coming to visit that Center so I I think
you'd open up other things that we'd
have to you'd have to start really
dealing with so I'm still in support of
what she presented
um
were those Colonnades hit that
um that focal point entry it's drawn
differently in almost every floor plan
that we've seen okay so if you look at
it in the
um into if you can go to this one and go
up here to this gray area
well it's it's a part of the Southern
Culture
uh yes
I'm interested to know because it all
came from the same Revit model so I'm
trying to figure out where the
inconsistency might be
this one yes so just go just go to see
what this looks like in the what the
entryway looks like where they draw it
here
okay and then and the next one where it
goes to more to this close review
I do think this portion here is shaded
on that drawing and it shouldn't be well
I'm just looking at the entryway itself
and you know how do these Colonnades tie
into the side
um and and it it appears differently on
different drawings so like this one
it has all these jaggedy things that I
don't really know what's going on there
this one it's it's drawn differently
so so these were the wing these these
were the wing walls here
um that were coming out in the and in
the revised one that you have and I
think it helps the these Wing walls have
moved further out so that you're
basically out here now
um to move that vestibule back inside
[Music]
um and then I would say that there is a
little note here that is actually
outside
um but this section here is the interior
portion what we're also uh dealing with
is we go to the floor plan uh Karen
all right
Zoom just a bit out yeah
um so there's an exit just down a little
bit there's an existing stair here that
currently exits into this Corridor and
you can't have a uh exit stair exit into
the interior building and maintain fire
egress so we're creating this new
portion of that stair here that allows
that to go down and so now in the
revised floor plan this is all vestibule
and it's actually sticks the the piece
sticks out a little further
uh here and then this is all open and
that's the plan that you brought today
right right correct correct okay
and so the the gable roof comes along
here
the the other gabled roof here would die
into it the gable roof would die into it
here and then there is a horse and a
flat roof you know in the in the area in
the back
yeah yeah so this is the corner that I'm
these corners and the way that that
again they're not symmetrical in the way
that the Colonnades come into them is
the also gives me a little bit of right
and there's no
unfortunately because of where they are
it can't quite be that way uh and make
all the little code changes and turns
turns work
again another reason to just
so that it got one perspective got
another
thing I will agree with Suzanne that you
know you're making this statement of
this entrance and it's really important
and I don't think the this is not our
purview maybe today but I don't think
the
The Hardscape plan supports that
it sort of sending you all different
ways in which way and it doesn't help
incorporate
the importance of that entrance
and that may improve the
that it may improve the the solution if
the
if that stuff going on down there is
rethought a little bit because you're
really not sending a very clear message
of importance or
where are you going it's our thought
process just to walk through that a
little bit I know that's not where we
are but you know most of the parking is
in this vicinity here and people will
either be coming this way
um or and you know things are a little
bit more obvious when you're this way or
they're becoming this way
um and we were also dealing with kind of
multiple there's this axial relationship
that exists between The Grotto and the
um up the school which is historic uh
and we're trying to maintain which is
this axis here there is the access of
the convocation center there is the
access of the uh the Walter Commons
there is to your point really an axial
relationship here and we were trying to
what we the solution was to create
rather than one Center
we kind of pulled these two centers out
which allowed it almost more this
operates a little bit more like an oval
and that in that instance or an ellipse
so the intent is that this path kind of
leads that direction it's like a graphic
Circle what's that graphic Circle yeah
go around and peel off when you need to
yeah so I understand exactly what you're
trying to describe because we were
trying to figure out how to deal with
these multiple paths the other thing is
you know throughout the day students may
be out here sitting so there's also the
nature of it's a it's a plaza space that
isn't just about the axial relationship
it's about you know sitting in the space
and feeling like you're in the space
it is a complicated design challenge
well so either way you guys have a lot
more drawing to do to really figure out
how this fits how the vestibule works
and all that you know the roof line I
mean you have a lot more to figure out
before your
um
ready to go with it right so even though
you're coming back next month right well
I I would I our intent was if we I think
the the term when Karen and I were
discussing it is we can get a vote of
confidence
in a Direction
so that we can start detailing and
figuring out the direction
um and I think somebody used the concept
conceptual approval tonight was the
other the other term that was used so
I'm
uh shifting it are we drawing it shifted
or are we drawing an angle it really
influences what we're bringing back next
month right
um you know and I I can appreciate and
understand all the it is a complex
little thing trying to understand it
because I've been trying to understand
it and figure it out as well but we need
that we we feel we need clear direction
from the board are we okay to move
forward with this angled option we are
what I will state is we are uh we
discussed it as a team everybody is
perfectly okay with moving forward with
option two if that is the preferred
option uh of the board
um we did prefer the all-class option
but we would move forward everybody was
okay with the before with that option
so
um I think what I would like is and I
don't know procedurally if we have some
kind of vote to know that hey this is
the concept we're moving forward with
happy to come back with detailed
drawings as we continue to develop them
because we quite frankly have to start
immediately on the detailed drawings as
soon as we have that
um because we have a schedule to get
pushing forward but we're you know we're
leaning into that schedule a little bit
to not start too hard until until we
know that we've we're moving in the
right direction
well I'll go on record you have my
support I would and I'll be here next
month and I support your process
I'd love to hear from Jocelyn and
Michael
okay okay do we need to take a vote or
we just need to for what's anything to
vote on yeah
that's right we have a landscape plan
yeah right that we can't move forward
without that right so the question well
because we need that condition that's
good the condition if that's going to be
a condition we need that condition
that's correct because if you think I'm
not trying to push you just trying to
put bring perspective that's right right
because we have dates that we're trying
to meet right with
again academic calendars become and it's
gonna it's gonna kill me if we don't at
least have Clarity on what I can so if
we get this as as you suggested this
preliminary
approval on us moving forward that
allows us to get the design done but
then it also allows us to finish up
whatever we need to do to adjust on the
Plaza and then you know kind of parallel
path get the the that's submitted that's
absolutely does that make sense
we read a finding as proposed with the
brick version with the applicant to
return with the construction documents
and I think it would be applicant signs
of the construction documents don't work
with the angled piece that they know
what we're going to be back anyway
and and and further the condition that
the Landscaping could turn to the tree
and what the government
to me from a staff perspective you know
I understand where Suzanne's coming from
like it would be an amazing opportunity
to do like a friend I talked about is a
cool glass piece that's orthogonal but
any either one of them no matter what my
personal preference is I think will work
but I gotta see it in the construction
yeah we get that yep that's how I feel
so
that I'm okay with you moving forward to
construction documents development
knowing that this is complicated yes I
find that it doesn't work in in from
when you work through it and maybe you
do end up going back to looking at
something that's more simply protagonal
to one side or the other I don't know
but to me it's more about yeah I think I
think
we have the good faith that I think we
should have some kind of emotion so that
that we can that you can have confidence
yeah that 100 because at percent of
confidence seems to know that you're
going to do develop yeah yeah
the doors one way and one plan and like
and then that shouldn't that should not
happen you're exactly that what you
described should but it just costs when
we were trying to get everything kind of
cleaned up with
the comments then you know time was an
enemy at that point so your that should
not happen that to me is we'll we'll
have more than that cleaned up but you
know the vote of to give us the
confidence to move forward does multiple
things right we're spending money
document wise but also we're finalizing
landscape right drawings too so there's
a lot just because of the back end
academic calendar constraints also so
for us it would be important that we
have that that vote because I believe
procedurally we're not required to come
for the landscape plan unless it's the
condition of this board right so if
you're saying we have to do that we need
an approval with that condition in order
to make that application
the phone whatever Kathy things that
they're all right I'm going to do that
and
um a full conception documents that be
reviewed by this board or at least
drawings I don't know yeah I don't I
don't think we can mandate no I don't
yeah I don't think I'm we need to see
how the construction of this is going to
put oh you need all the elevators we
need to see everything in one package so
that
plans elevations and the rendering all
right beyond the schematic Yeah
well yeah I think that's that's
something that we we mandate on all of
our applications so I think that's
something that would be fair to see here
as well but again I think you're you're
seeing a majority of of consensus here
that the support of where you're moving
forward and yeah
I think
[Music]
I mean I think that's what you're going
to learn when you do design development
right I don't think this I don't feel
like as a board we should be saying it
should be exactly this I think we're
better at pointing out where we think it
isn't quite working yeah but I think you
should be better at figuring out what
can be elegant and you know the scale is
right and all that and so I I would
prefer that you draw it and come back to
us and tell us this is the best we can
do yeah I think it's going to be a and
fall into the condition of the whole all
the details so it doesn't need to be a
specific condition
yeah the condition is the detail yeah
that's going to be all of it so
but again I appreciate I don't need full
detailed yeah yeah you don't automation
don't need them
great okay so are you are you we're
looking for someone to make a motion
then
we go
going
are exceptionally
true entrance
to the final of design details to return
the Veritas review board and Landscape
modifications to
return to the treatment of a garden
Mission preserved
ready for a motion
sorry
motion Strasser
second dude Cross Key
s yes
yes
yes yes
thank you
we can share
okay oh what happened
here let me look at it
[Music]
yeah
oh is that what she said okay
anyway
is it a Dropbox
you know
you are my bike or Michael I don't know
why I did that easy
Steel
always
seriously went through an update time I
mean
that's crazy
we're gonna do the school next because I
Met Myself and maybe it should have been
old business
and then we'll get people out of here
yeah
okay the next application number ARB
23-5 the address is 348 South casing
hand the applicant is John eichenberry
the owner is Bexley City School District
Board of Education the applicant is
seeking Architectural Review and
approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for windscreens for the
tennis courts and sign replacements
and Karen has a update um
I'm actually going to hand over the
floor
he's sworn in Harley Williams who has a
presentation thank you you'll take care
of the spine progression I will do that
all right well thank you thanks for your
time tonight
I state your name Harley Williams do you
solemnly swear from the testimony you're
about to give this evening I do thank
you
all right uh again thank you for time
this evening uh Bexley City School Board
of Education over the past seven years
been addressing and upgrading our
athletic facilities
in 2017 we focus on our wrestling
facilities in 2018 we demolish and
rebuild our track in 2020 we demolished
and rebuild our tennis courts and last
year we returned the athletic field
we are here tonight to request
permission to hang windscreens on the
temporary windscreens on the district's
tennis courts during the fall girls
tennis season which lasts August through
October and for the spring Boys Tennis
season which lasts March through May
this request isn't about preference or
an accessory it's about providing a
premier facility for our student
athletes that our many community members
who play tennis will also be able to
enjoy our focus is in on the enhancement
of the playability and overall
experience of using the facility
thank you
these windscreens will function as wind
barriers for winds that come from the
south and the West as most tennis
players and coaches will tell you
playing tennis in a windy condition is
not ideal the second purpose of these
screens is to block the activity and
distractions that occur in our track and
athletic fields just outside the fence
we believe the windscreens will also
enhance the look of our tennis courts
and hide stored athletic equipment that
should be could be considered an eyesore
so a little history following the ARB
meeting this past summer we had hoped we
could develop a plan based on the
concerns and feedback we heard from our
neighbors in the ARB
at that time and create mock-ups that
would simulate it as accurately as
possible based on the direction we were
given to view the view of the tennis
courts from various angles we had to
work with two different vendors to
accomplish this one for signs and one
for the windscreen it became clear to us
quite quickly that we would not be ready
to share a plan with our neighbors or
the iarb prior to the star of the girls
tennis season in August
in October we asked for an update from
our vendors of a requested mock-up for
our windscreens and learned that the
representative we were working with had
left the company and work had been
forgotten during this transition a new
representative was assigned to us our
goal was to meet with our neighbors and
share the compromise we put into and
compromise we put into our plan and
asked their feedback in January and
present our final plan to ARB in
February of this year
prior to the start of the boys upcoming
tennis season this plan had to be pushed
back again in November when we asked for
a progress update and learned that no
substantial work had been done so we
dropped the spender and secure to
November new vendor who in late December
was able to give us a mock-up that we
needed in January I sent these mock-ups
to our neighbors
and ask them to provide any feedback in
writing our neighbors requested a
meeting in person and we met at Fred and
Shannon Nelson's home
Shannon and Frederick gracious host uh
to me and to their neighbors and it
became in our conversation it became
clear that um that there was not a
desire for them to have a temporary
windscreen unless it could be
retractable
and unfortunately I'm not aware of any
retractable product that's available
even so cost maintenance prohibitive if
it did exist
originally I proposed having the
windscreens up in the summer for our
community to enjoy however I shared with
our neighbors in this meeting as a
spirit of compromise that if our Quest
request is approved we would remove the
windscreens during the summer
next slide please
as you'll see on this slide and if you
want to even go to the next slide you'll
see the former tennis court windscreens
where Bexley blue and we replaced the
original aluminum Champion signs that
the sublimated names on the windscreen
the Arabia neighbors Express concerns
about the color the sublimated names
looking like a billboard and the
windscreens covering the entire fence
throughout the slides I will refer to
our courts as Court one two three four
and five
uh Court one is a northernmost Court
and Court five would be the southernmost
court court three is the Center Court
um and I think so if I can go to slide
four please
uh slide four that this is a picture of
Court one I was taken from Stanwood
Avenue display some of the stored
equipment that I mentioned earlier if I
go to five please this is picture of
Court two was taken during a home
football game
you'll notice how close our track is to
the fence
slide six
and slide seven please
this picture these pictures are taken
from inside the courts Court three the
first one in court four there
our visitor bleachers are placed on the
track during The Fall season and then
following The Fall season these are
relocated and stored on the Northern end
of the stadium outside of Court one
um
I can go to slide eight there's a
question about that yes could you go
back to the
the the previous slide those are
bleachers and they are removed yeah and
when are they usually there they're
there for the football sports season
okay so that would be we put them up in
August and take them down
in usually at the end of October okay
and are those on courts one through five
or just some that's you'll see they
cover mostly coach course three and four
okay thank you
um
gosh there's a picture of the wind speed
uh slides eight and slide nine right so
those two these are the pictures the
windscreens located at Jeffrey Park
tennis courts the windscreens we will
place on our tennis courts will be black
now and if approved and assuming uh and
and have the same opacity rating as a
tennis courts at Jeffrey Park
and we haven't sampled
the next slide please
we'll return to the aluminum size we
signs we use in the past to memorialize
our past teams and individual champions
we would like to hang this sign this
sign in particular at the top of Court
three which is Center Court to recognize
the Michael Schiff family for their
financial contributions to their
innovation of the district and
community's Tennis Courts the community
utilizes Esports probably more often
than our teams do
and on the slide you will see the
dimensions of the sign they are 18
inches high and they're going to fit
like the the middle one family fits over
the gate door
and
um
if you go to slide 11 and 12 or school
11 first
this is a three by five foot sign that
we like to put on the inside of Court
one
uh and I'll have a picture of it here in
a little bit but that would be as you're
not on the not on the track side of the
court but on the fence closest to the
stand with so when people are walking
down the sidewalk they would see our
donors
um being recognized there
if you go to sites 12 that would kind of
give you a mock-up about where we were
thinking we'd like to put it
on court one
if you go to slide 13
as mentioned earlier we moved away for
the supplemented name the sublime the
mated names and return to the aluminum
size on our school's tennis champions
these signs will be mounted before the
windscreen placement and they'll be
mounted on the inside of the fence and
then if approved windscreens would go
mounted on the back of it we have a
black fence that would be Blended in
with the black of the new windscreens as
well
um
and again despite
as you can see here we have a couple
where that's a that's a mistake by our
vendor we are not recognizing the
statistic District qualifiers we'd have
we'd have a thousand of them up here
probably so they should be District
Champions singles District Champions
doubles District
girls and boys that way
if I go to slide 14 please on those
signs is that the intent that as you
have each year you're adding more of the
signs is that correct hopefully
foreign
sorry it's not the best but that's what
the we would put what court number on
each of the course as well as you enter
the gate so when we're having our
visitors come will we tell them this
this group will be on court three and
everyone will know which which courts
they should report to I think those
signs are three by two
if you go to next slide
and you'll see
um uh an Andrew Stern Court we would
have some big donors that would be in
court that's Court three Center Court
oh that's three by two
quarter yeah okay three by two is the
center there's a Gate Court
this is smaller one I'm not for sure the
size exactly
um
if you hit the slide again please just
give you an idea what we put on each of
the Courts
okay one more please
and next slide
okay
and then uh these slides provide you
with an aerial kind of a view of what
the tennis courts and our fencing looks
like right now
um
we we these these
windscreens here we have up uh they've
been up
since we've uh since last year we take
them down in the winter time though and
that's just to divide the course and
keep distractions from two from of
course playing each other that
distraction
up here we have the courts that uh that
were blocked they're trying to we're
trying to put up to one of the functions
of this create a barrier between the
distractions that occur on the athletic
facilities here as well
and these slides
um the Orange Line indicates where the
proposed windscreens will be replaced or
be placed and and we ask the note that
um based on the feedback we received we
did reduce the length of the windscreens
by 20 on each Court
and uh so in the spirit of compromise we
now place the windscreen from Baseline
to Baseline on each Court not covering
the entire court so from left to right
that's where you're shortening those as
well right there's a gap here you can
see so that should be parallel with that
safe line so that the goal of that is
just to keep
keep the distraction from players and
we're thinking most the players are
always going to be right in here anyway
so so the ones in between the courts
will they continue all the way out to
the outside fence that's along the
street or will those also cut off where
the court is okay
okay
so between the court and the track
the screen goes the length of the Court
not the space correct correct okay so
the blue of the tennis quarter is what
it's covering okay
the perpendicular ones yes
the perpendicular goes all the way
across the fence right got it and no
screens along the road
no screens along the road that's where
our visitors watch matches from
that was my next question where do you
sit to watch them well sometimes on a
big one we actually ask the city to
block this streets and
okay
we go to the next slide then
so basically this is what these these
next five slides are what mock-ups of
what a player will see while they're on
the court they're not going to see other
players playing or running around that
way so if you go through the next five
that's Court one and two simulated three
and two and three
so you just keep going I think you get
the point
and
uh good right there this is a simulated
view of how court one will look from
Stanwood Avenue
um
eight screen now like as I said earlier
will now just cover Baseline to Baseline
um there will be no signs to honor past
champions on court one here and I'll
show you another quart five too I'll
just be
um
solid windscreen there is that an
accurate representation of the
opaqueness of the no no it looks like
it's hard to do that yeah that's why I
brought that so you would see it so you
showed a picture earlier I think from
Jeffrey parks that would be the actual
appearance what is the actual percentage
of opaqueness do you have that data
and that'll have a look at seven I don't
know for sure it's about as
much
yeah
and I suppose that um I never thought
about this but it probably looks
different in different weather
conditions you know a bright day it's
more transparent and a dark day it's
more opaque I would think right it's
backlit yeah if
if the light is from the back side you
it would look differently but
okay okay that's a pretty good pretty
good view yeah that helps a lot I could
also verify with the rec director what
the exact
ly yeah
okay good
it's not that's it let me write down
that number on them there's no number
so I asked are these screens just zip
tied to the fence
well we we there's either they have they
make clips that you can put on them
um that will break in the winds with
your fence doesn't come down so we have
those we also were interested because
this this is a lot
um
as as more airflow than any other
windscreen so what we when we were
looking at the Jeffrey Park we were uh
we were impressed by how they mounted
theirs with a with a rope around it so
we haven't decided exactly how we'll do
that but I think when you if because
there's so much air they can go through
that we could get away with using a rope
to do it and not have not have the the
snaps breaking off all the time which
then creates it flapping in the wind and
stuff like that
and and the the fence that goes along
the track that's correct it's all for
each quart is it the same height
consistent across yes and will the
screen go top to bottom yes thank you
okay
um if you want if we go to another slide
the reasoning for the taking that up to
the top of the existing fence is the
support post at the top no I my favorite
I'm I'm just thinking about visually the
consistency I want to want to make sure
the fences are all the same height that
it goes to the top it's going to be
across the whole thing so it's not
that that was my concern
um and Eli has helped me with this a
second but this is the what we've done
is we'll have like chord three will be a
lot of the all the winners state
championships and we'll do the girls
side on court two the boys district will
get Court four state champions get to
Center Court uh and and I you know we
asked for rendering of this what that
might look like this is a these are a
lot more District Champions that we've
had about 30 years
the idea is that we would Center where
it says District Champions over that
it's probably only about two rows T
underneath it so you look at that
currently that's where this is the best
case win scenario best case scenario
come back in 20 years and this is what
you'll see yeah
advance to one more please Karen
this would be the rendering of the Court
three would look like uh we would have a
Michael Schiff family a Tennis complex
on top
um we would have our individual teams
over the door
uh Champions state champions and then
this over here would be the girls
singles and double state champions and
the boys singles and double state
champions
and is that a current
or projected
State singles titles
you decided
and it's pretty accurate
and next slide
this is the boys uh the court four
which would be the boys District
Champions and doubles champions
on there and again I'm quite sure that's
a lot more than we have currently right
Eli yeah
and this would be uh Court five
uh it's too dark here anyway and I
couldn't tell if they did anything here
or not but that would not be again this
just like the other course 12 this will
be opened
at the Baseline
uh there will be no signs on court five
um I say we've taken off I'm hoping that
this presentation we've taken all the
concerns that were identified previously
work with our vendors to develop
Alternatives we've shared this with
members of our surrounding community and
and though we may not be 100 on the same
page we believe this designed to be fair
compromise the current proposal will
allow us to provide a premier Athletic
Facility to be enjoyed by our student
athletes in the community while
addressing specific concerns identify
the subordinary residents so we're
therefore asking your approval as
submitted
thank you thank you
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about this application if
you could raise your hand let me see how
many people we have please
let's read more cards and one letter
word and one letter okay so we have five
people in one letter
um
yeah so we will have a time limit let's
start with the letter and then
um one of you please come up and as soon
as she gets done reading the letter
we'll swear you in can we put that and
have the live red last is that all right
or
sure that's your at your disposal sure
whatever you like okay thank you yeah
and so we're gonna have like a three
minute time limit for you to
get your concerns all right I'm gonna
Square them in first you can swear man
please state your name starting with you
man Shannon Nelson
I'm Fred Nelson and your address 310
South Stanwood Road
do you saw me swear from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth yes
thanks I I've I'll again if I may uh I'd
like to touch on process especially in
light of what we just heard uh and then
move to well what are still very serious
uh concerns with the substance of what
we largely view as a uh uh an
unnecessary proposal at least in in in
part
uh as to the process as you recall we we
gathered in uh July and expressed uh
some concerns uh there with the with the
plan at the time
uh board or certain board members
expressed uh certain reservations and uh
uh suggested or some members suggested
that the schools both work with the
neighbors to develop a uh uh mutually uh
beneficial uh plan uh we expected uh to
that end when we left the meeting out
those doors and we gathered up the names
and phone numbers and email addresses of
the the neighbors tried to uh press them
on Mr uh eikenberry who said no no he
could he could get them from uh from
here but eventually he took the took the
names
uh and we expected to hear back from the
school uh the next week in July and we
set about our uh further research into
uh into uh opacity and uh and need
didn't hear from the schools uh in July
at all
didn't hear anything in August
September October
November December nothing
now I heard Dr Williams say that they
reached out to us in January
and uh sent us a proposal and asked us
to provide any comments in writing uh
with all respect
uh the doctor may have misspoken uh that
was not my experience I don't believe it
was Shannon's experience we heard
nothing from the schools in January
uh we heard nothing from the schools for
the first couple weeks in February
then came Valentine's Day and by email
of
407 PM we received from Mr eichenberry
the school's business manager an email
that begins please see the attached file
which contains the revised presentation
for the tennis courts proposal
by that point we'd assumed that it had
been uh dropped but that was the first
that uh that we'd heard of it I guess in
light of the representations that were
made about January and about reaching
out to us I'd ask if I could uh submit
this as an exhibit uh and I'll leave I
didn't expect to do that and I'll leave
it here as it did it
uh but because we were not so so we we
uh we decided to construe that uh
here it is as an invitation for meeting
uh Mr eichenberry and the athletic
director uh couldn't meet but uh Dr
Williams every kind they came over to
our house now all drawn Shannon's time
if I may uh came over to our uh our
house and uh
very politely
told us uh yeah this was the uh the
presentation uh that was to be made so
we didn't have the opportunity to talk
about opacity we didn't have the
opportunity to talk about need that is
Baseline the back of the tennis courts
as versus sideline cutting off Stanwood
from the uh the view of the uh school
and the triac we didn't have the
opportunity to talk about height we
didn't have the opportunity to talk
about cell roll-up mechanisms now that
uh there's some thought of going away
from the the vinyl tarp uh didn't have
the opportunity to discuss any of that
we did uh uh that had we had we had that
opportunity and uh I would have I would
have questioned the uh the need we are
not talking about tennis courts on a
Hilltop or in a rural uh area that
doesn't have the uh the built-in
windscreens and buildings in fact we
have a pretty substantial windscreen for
the sides of the tennis court in the
form of the Bexley high school and
Bexley Middle School it's not like a
wind comes down and kicks up on the
field and blows across the uh uh the
courts uh I've played badly on those
courts uh uh up until about last year uh
and that has not been an issue it's not
been an issue that if actually tennis
players and well and I must say on
behalf of the Bexley tennis players I
believe that they're equipped to
concentrate on the uh on the goings-on
on the court without worrying about
what's going on in the uh on the
football field they Ballyhoo Jeffrey
Picard
let me point out what they don't say
that Jeffrey Park does not have side
windscreens on the tennis courts the
windscreens that you're seeing depicted
there are at the back of Jeffrey uh Park
courts we have no problem with
windscreens on the baselines running
perpendicular to the street our problem
is having the street cut off in our view
of the streets of the school and the
fields uh cut off you look at Jeffrey
Mansion and there are two tennis courts
with big fences no side windscreens then
there are two pickleball courts on the
far side of the fire pickleball court
there's a windscreen that's about five
feet some inches high nothing
approaching the 12 feet that we're
talking about here and not on the tennis
courts themselves
um so I don't think there's a need
uh uh for the side screens were
perfectly content with the back Baseline
uh screens up or perfectly content with
the signage but I would with the consent
of the board members like to offer some
photographs if I if I cut it this time
um the first photograph is a photograph
of what you see of the high school and
school complex from the street the
fields and the high school that would be
cut off by these windscreens there are
other exhibits to the same effect
including a couple taken from the
perspective of our front door in effect
at 310 South Stanwood and I'd encourage
you a couple pictures of the fields at
night and I'd encourage you when it
comes to photographs six and seven to
look at the height of the fence throwing
across your time is up thank you and
I'll submit photos if I may uh I'm chair
of the Jeffrey Park as well
thank you
okay
is there another person from the
audience that would like to
please come forward
I hope that's not a tennis injury no
it's from skiing
or my ACL new uh put your hand up in
Matthews Where are you in Samuel Samuel
nudist 350 South Stanwood Road
absolutely
uh thank you for your time counsel I
appreciate your efforts in the
continuing effort to keep Bexley
beautiful and a nice place to live my
don't waste time Fred's said many of the
same points that I like to point out so
I'll draw attention to the windscreens
over at Jeffrey Mansion I took these
photos today at three o'clock
so you can get an idea of the opacity
looking straight on as if I was looking
out my front window
I'll leave these here the back side is
if you're on um
what's that I'm blanket on the street
but Clifton where if first of all I'd
like to make a point there are no front
door addresses on Clifton that are
around the tennis courts it's all back
door it's the lion gate community this
is what you see when you look out back
and this is what we would see at
Stanwood Road effectively some of these
as you go south on Stanwood some of
these fencing lines are actually about
16 feet tall because they're it's on a
on an angle
[Music]
um
I understand the convenience for the
tennis players But ultimately we are
here every day and I will have to look
at a black wall
pretty much indefinitely as long as I'm
in the house and I
have objection to that and I'd like to
say that we never really had an
opportunity nor did nor I don't know if
we are given one but to have a
compromise with the school and how to
proceed further
I'll yielding my time to the next person
thank you thank you
is there another person in the audience
please come forward
thank you
Bruce Grossman 366 South Stanwood and
I'm right behind Court five
I do
I just want to say we're in a ranch
house it's a family house I've lived
there since 62 1962.
and we don't have enough stairs so when
those screens first came in I was just
shocked to see Darkness so I'm totally
against them I played tennis for Baxley
78 and I don't think you need the
windscreens now I'm all for you know
for you know acknowledging state
champions and everything else but to put
up those windscreens is I'm just totally
against it like I said we're in a ranch
house which is no upstairs and when
they're up there you just you can't see
anything it's dark you're like in a
tunnel so
I just thought I'd voice my opinion
there and my next door neighbor on the
other side not saying but the other side
Dana so cold she would have been here
too to agree with me so
okay so I'm sorry delete that all right
thank you guys for your time thank you
thank you
is there anyone else in the audience
that would like to speak
I'm Chris Millard I live at 104 South
Stanwood
yes I'm sorry what was your address 104.
so I am north of the school we don't
have the constant view of the tennis
courts that our neighbors face okay I'm
not sure that you have standing though
spinners I did not
yeah
um we are looking at addresses like 250
to 375 somewhere in those numbers those
are the ones that are actually adjacent
to the tennis courts so you're much
farther north right so my point is this
isn't just impacting those four houses
that this impacts the Greater Community
because of the connection to the schools
so if I can I would like to share that
um I mean we pretty much have a role
that you must have standing to speak
about an application
um you could have fallen forward in the
beginning but now that we're speaking
about the application you don't have
standing by our by our rules I'm really
sorry
I am sorry too because I do think it
impacts the Greater Community and the
connection that people feel to the
schools and putting that wall and very
up really takes that away so yeah okay
thank you
okay is there anyone else then
okay
um and Kathy has a letter and what's the
address from that letter
he says I am Howard Schnitz the resident
at 330 South Stanwood Road the address
is directly across the Portland center
of the Tennis complex
would be the property most affected by
the windscreens and proposed graphics
for perspect for perspective I have
lived at 330 South Stanwood since 2001
for the 15 years or so preceding that I
recited at 341 South cassingham on the
other side of the school complex I've
lived by the school because I have three
children in the program and because I
like living near the school for all
sorts of reasons in my experience over
40 years the school board and its
Representatives have met regular really
have been really good neighbors
certainly the vast majority of those
families who choose to live adjacent to
the school are also very good neighbors
I'm not sure what has changed but the
school's no longer the good neighbor
that it once was for this community that
is the beginning of the end our
community is driven by property values
that are direct result of our school
when the change when they that changes
everything changes I'm sure the ARB
meetings are videotaped and transcribed
we could all go back and look at the
last meeting when the school board made
their last presentation regarding the
proposed windscreens I believe it was
July of 22 2012 to the presentation was
carried out by representatives of the
school board no elected members of our
school board attended the meeting
apparently this did not rise up to the
the level of board involvement maybe it
should have at that meeting after a
brief presentation by the boards chosen
representatives and a resounding
objection by the community the school
board was admonished by the architecture
review board the ARB questioned why the
school came to the meeting so I'll
so ill prepared the school board was
told that it was actually a community
effort that needs the involvement of the
stakeholders on Stanwood Road they were
told to meet with members of the
community to try and develop a plan that
would work for everyone at the end of
the meeting all the residents in
attendance made an effort to provide
their contact information to the school
board representative so that we could
try to work out something that made
sense for everyone we were prepared to
take the time and make the effort to do
exactly that six months later with no
discussion among Community stakeholders
the school submitted its new plan to the
ARB for consideration on merch tonight
the
the school sent an email to the Stanwood
Road residence informing them of this
but with no mention of any work on
collaborative effort the residents press
the school to meet they did they sent
Harley Williams to tell us what their
plan was there was no discussion there
was no collaboration there is no
interest and certainly no effort on the
part of the school board to seek any
measure of input from the resident
stakeholders this does not seem to be
exactly what the ARB had in mind last
July the airb got it exactly right then
residents have all sorts of ideas on how
this can be done and still make everyone
happy but this cool simply did not care
the school board put forth a terrible
plan in July with no Community
involvement
they have done exactly the same thing
tonight the new plan has all the same
elements that will change our community
with measures of compromise that nobody
has
had an opportunity to weigh in on why
should the residents of the community
suffer while catering unnecessarily to a
small handful of residents who may
prefer windscreens to sight lines and if
windscreens are so important how do we
explain recent State tennis champions
apparently those students did just fine
without them
Howard schnitzel
thank you
okay so we are up to the board members
is there a board member that would like
to go first and Harley are you going to
be the one that answers questions of the
board
Mr Goldberg you'll need to be sworn in
they state your name Eli goldberger you
solemnly swear from the testimony you're
about to give this evening is the truth
yes thank you is there a board member
that would like to go first
first because
um of some comments about what the board
suggests last time talking to the
neighbors I think a lot of that came
from me so I think I maybe I should go
first because of that so I'd say that um
I'm very sympathetic to the frustration
of the neighbors that you know perhaps
you didn't get the input and the
opportunity to voice your opinion that
you would like to and I think that's
probably probably more of a school
district issue than a complaint than to
us because we don't have any control
over the employees or the actions of the
school we are here to review the design
aesthetic and the impact the visual
impact and whether it's appropriate so
the reason I suggested that so strongly
at that last meeting is because I think
it would come to a better probably to a
better end you'd have more community
support you wouldn't have neighbors
saying you know the school district or
the schools are not our friends that's
not a great thing but for good or bad
that's not where where we can't base our
decision on whether
um the whether the neighbors think they
were treated fairly or properly
consulted that's not really in our
purview so I'm going to focus on what I
heard about the the visuals
um and some of the information so
um
you know I also grew up by a school not
around here but I have lots of uh
situations where things change around
the school and uh you know on balance
I'm sure happy I live by that school of
growing up but uh you know the lights
from football field were not always the
most welcome thing in your bedroom
window at 10 o'clock on a Friday night
so uh but that being said I wanted to
hear if I heard you write that the
screens are going to be up for
um from August through October
right okay and then you might also want
to confirm one thing it seemed to me
that those bleachers
that sit along that uh
well not what they're actually West I
guess West area behind the courts
the pictures of this bleachers could
look so great visually appealing either
to me so in some ways it seems like the
screens are
um sort of helpful because it sounds
like the bleachers are there around the
same time perhaps at least in the fall
the bleachers are there through the fall
season and they cover up Court three and
into court two and four yeah so yeah
that's a side benefit from my
perspective that maybe if some of that's
covered up during that time of the part
of the year the other big objections in
the previous plan was the blue sign I
think it was okay the material was
really very unpleasant
and this screening material is far
superior
um I I I also want to say to the people
that testified
you know the justifying the need for the
the screens I'm not sure that either is
I'm not sure I'm sure that is also not
that's not a consideration for the board
because whether it's
um whether it's necessary or not is very
subjective
and not doesn't impact the Statics
for the Architectural Review Board and
again to me in my opinion more of a
school board issue of how are you
spending our money so I again I would
say I I said I appreciate the comments
but for me that's not a valid
consideration for my decision on how I
would vote
um and I think
that is all I have to say and I didn't
have my mic on but pretty loud so
hopefully hopefully you can do it
Mr Scott leave your next
sure um I agree with all of that I think
there's there's obviously a lot more at
stake here with the community and
um discussions that I think need to
continue to happen uh but also you know
this board doesn't decide need it's
really an aesthetic issue so
ways we would look at this is if the
need is is determined that okay we're
going to do this then as a board how do
we big balance that with the
um with those who have to you know you
visually see this every day
um so uh looks sounds like I'm just
going to kind of go through through this
a little bit six months of the year
right you would would you leave it up
through October all the way through May
and then take it down or would you put
up for three months take it down put it
up for three months put it up take it
down put it up take it down so
um
you know the argument of this image with
you know this these bleachers are not
attractive and are blocking
um it's not a wall but it is blocking
partially so you're and you've reduced
the the lineage to 600 feet down about
120 feet you know 480 linear feet of if
you want to take each quart we took 20
feet off of each court so of course
roughly 100 feet so we took 20 of it off
each quarter times five
um so I think those are all good
measures again not talking about the
need of it I think it's currently nine
feet per post and uh a little bit Yeah
the post up so they do make windscreens
from six feet to ten or yeah or you
could see
so it's actually a little less than 12
feet to the top of the fence and is it
my understanding that it can't be
mounted at six feet because of the top
of that screen needs a structural member
to secure it correct the support
was an option of looking at adding a as
you can get Hardware that will clip onto
a vertical pipe uh adding a horizontal
support to do a six foot and or the
study of what a six for versus 10 foot
oh yeah
I'd address that first I think I'd say
that a six foot fence the object of a
wind screen is to block the wind and
Tennis is going to go the ball flies
over six feet
most of the time
so every time the ball is returned it's
up in the air it's over six feet it's
being affected by the wind if you have a
10 foot or 12 foot 11 foot windscreen it
it makes it less of an obstacle for
playing so
um the idea is to be able and for the
same reason they have that at Jeffrey
Mansion and I would just say the comment
before the fencing on Jeffrey Mansion
the screens are on both sides for the
full length of the fence
on the pickleball side there's one
viewing side so the street side we have
completely open where their viewing is
there the Jeffrey Mansion they have a
side where the viewing is where they
have some stands that is left open and
on the pickleball side they only have a
half a fence and that is fully screened
as well they just don't have a 10 foot
fence there they have an eighth of them
or six foot pens
so it's it's it's you know I I think the
in the end it's it's it is a wall and I
think this photograph is great but I
remember picking up my kids
a lot here and it was hard to see if
even people were on the court uh so this
this looks like oh this to me could this
photograph is like oh you know that's
not that bad if you can see through it
it's transparent it feels like you're
more like a 50 uh we're probably closer
to 80.
um and this is just one of those types
of days and shots that work because some
of the other photos was almost black so
uh I think it's a little bit deceiving
um so in the end you know
as an Architectural Review Board we're
talking about approving a black wall
um that's going to run about 480 feet at
nine feet high along the entire Road
along this complex for six months of the
year
and I think that's that's some of the
hurdles of if you know if I lived across
the street and I've lived close by but
on that street you know would I want to
look at that you know there is a
connection from this community to the
activities on that court right all
Friday nights you know but you have that
all the way around the the the campus
um but there is a visual connection
obviously on this road the most
um
but again there's this need uh we could
have a discussion and an argument of
this will help the players and we will
maybe win more championships and
probably right there's there's influence
this has yeah I don't know if there's
not a guarantee but it helps yeah I
don't think it's a matter of quite
honestly winning more championships uh I
think it's a matter of providing the
best facility for our student athletes
so we had grass fields on the stadium
now we have turf it doesn't mean that
we're going to win more Champions
because we have turf it means that we
were able to provide a better situation
for our kids and so that's what we're
focusing on is the enhancement to our
tennis facility the years passed we
weren't able to put a windscreen on the
court because this defense was so old it
would blow over and it would tear down
the fence yes so we were lucky to have a
a donor who was able to uh help us
reconstruct our tennis courts and now we
have the ability because we have a brand
new facility to put windscreens on and
and to enhance the the playability for
our student athletes I think the
challenge is location for the
windscreens and whatever you're hearing
and you already know this coming into
the night
um
and I I guess for me it's I don't know
where The Sweet Spot would be where I
say you know it was only 80 feet I would
approve it or if it was only 300 feet so
I I haven't been able to figure that out
yet I'm still kind of in the zone of
um not sure where the if there's a sweet
spot at all so maybe there's none I
regarding the signage and what you with
the kind of switch that you guys fully
supported that I think the signage is
great uh I think it's going to be more
called out when it's on a black
background versus transparent um and
maybe that's good for the signage but
maybe not for uh the residents so uh
signs have no problem with I'm just
still on the fence the pun intended uh
on this black screen
I just make one comment about that and
say I think The Sweet Spot in our mind
is coming out of the meeting last summer
was that we trimmed in 20 of the
blockage from the screens we changed the
color was the feedback that that it
wasn't uh they didn't like the
sublimation and we said that it would be
temporary and that we would put it up
um and so I think there's community
members who would like to play over the
summer season uh and benefit also but
we're willing to take that down if the
neighbors don't want it because we're
focused on our student athletes and so
and I definitely noticed that I
appreciate those efforts so
Mr Steele
I mean I agree with everything Pete said
I think we could talk about need and try
to solve design I mean that's not our
task here but
personally I wonder if making it shorter
not going the whole width actually helps
or creates a wind tunnel effect that
would be kind of counter intuitive to
what you're trying to do anyways With
the Wind
um that's not what we're here to talk
about we're talking about the visual
Aesthetics of things so
I agree with me
Miss broski
um
I guess I would ask like can the screen
come with less of an opacity than what
you currently are targeting for it I
mean we also don't know what the opacity
is so like that's important for us to
understand saying oh it'll be like
Jeffrey but I mean I don't know what
that is so is it 50 60 70 80 90 like
that needs to be provided yeah
um so that we understand what is that
opacity I don't even know if it says it
on the sample but we can but it doesn't
I didn't see it yeah
and I get that information to you so I
would say like or I would ask you know
whatever that opacity is is there one
that's less than that that would still
give you what you need that wouldn't
look so you know because it depends on
if it's a bright day or if it's a shady
day right like there's clout or a cloudy
day on how that screen is going to read
I would say that we the opacity of that
screen is about as much as you can get
with the windscreen that's going to have
the effect of blocking wind yeah you
could have a fish net up there that is
not going to block much wind and you're
going to have more opacity but that
actually has the ability to see through
it you can view a match through there
you can
um I've coached tennis I've stood behind
in in that parking lot coaching kids you
know in that type of situation and I can
follow and know the score of the match
and and what the the the whole setting
so you can see through that and be able
to watch is it you know
um a hundred percent uh visibility now
but you can you can watch A Match
through there and actually know Follow
the Ball follow the score and be able to
see it so yeah I mean I get the idea of
having them perpendicular like you know
uh if we if you went to the like I guess
the site plan or whatever
whereas the one where it's between the
courts right because you know I I go
over to this complex all the time with
my kid uh mostly to play soccer but not
so much tennis but we watch people all
the time over there we watch matches
when they're occurring and I'm sure that
it is distracting for the students to
play on their court and to be seen
what's happening Beyond so I get the
ones between I think where I'm
struggling is the ones that are along
the fence line to the track
um and it I you know there's a balance
obviously that needs to be struck I'm
not quite sure the balance is there yet
um mainly because I don't understand the
capacity it's pretty like it's gonna
read
and I maybe you know it's also it's also
hard because I think like the pictures
aren't doing new service you know with
the fact that it reads very black very
Stark
um so
uh that's where I'm struggling I get I
get between the courts because you know
you don't want your students to be
distracted while they're playing a match
but I would just say that during a match
on the field we have about a hundred
track athletes that are running around
the track during matches or during a
lacrosse game there's uh so there's a
lot of activity on that side that is
actually distracting tennis players from
the match
um so I feel like
you know we made a compromise with there
where you can see through both sides you
can see through but it's not
um and they again I get it that that
visual is dark but I would say the
visual we're talking about the exact
same opacity that was approved for
Jeffrey Mansion
um and the exact same windscreen I mean
we worked with uh actually Rec to to get
the exact specs for that and use the
sample so we're not using anything
different that doesn't already exist at
Jeffrey Mansion
okay
um I I see where you have compromised
um the color to me was the most
offensive the last time you were here
the black is much better I appreciate
that you've cut in on the on the sides I
play tennis
um it's a pretty rare court that I go to
outside that they don't have windscreens
I'm just gonna say
um and probably as you look at other
schools where our kids are going
competing I would guess that pretty much
all of them have windscreens so I
understand what you're trying to do
um I appreciate that you're kind of
stuck because
um I understand from the neighbor's
perspective too that they're not happy
about it
but um I don't know how much more you
could you could compromise to be honest
so
I appreciate that you have done what you
have done
um and it's especially the color to me
was the most offensive of all of it and
I think to keep in mind too that these
are not running along the street and so
even if you look at the pictures that
were submitted to us from one of the
residents
um by the time you were standing in your
front yard and looking across the street
and across the tennis courts you're
really only blocking the building
um so I I feel like you've compromised
and um
uh
I mean I could I could see where a
little bit more could be done with your
signage to lower it or things like that
so that people aren't looking at
um you know the the court number signs
and stuff like that maybe those go a
little lower on the fence or something
but
uh
I feel like there is a good compromise
already here so Suzanne that's a really
good point that that fence is really
quite a distance from those streets yeah
I mean it's really obvious in some of
the photographs that one of the
residents brought
um in these pictures right here that
Karen has right next to her
yeah so those are taken from the street
not even from their front yards
but there's quite a distance across the
street and across the court
and again as you look at them they're
really only you're really only blocking
the building you're really not blocking
sky or
um
things Beyond and I mean you can see it
even can't go to this court three shot
that has the
the um signage and stuff on it I think
that's after these
yeah so there
so you're kind of starting to see a
little bit of the building Beyond it but
I I don't know what else you do as a
compromise
because if you lower them then they
don't help as you lob the ball and all
that they don't they don't cut down any
wind and again I just think it's it's
the standard of what our kids play on
and probably 30 years ago nobody had
windscreens but now everybody does and
so I don't think because the kids should
be
um hindered because we are Urban in our
layout so
I had also provided uh views looking
down Stanwood from the Dale Avenue
intersection and I noticed that we don't
have a line of trees along the west side
of Stanwood so I did reach out to our
City Arborist and asked if that's a
possibility and he had indicated that if
we can add trees we will because there
looks like there's places where they
certainly could add trees on the West
Side along the west side of Stanwood
which would provide some shade but you
know hopefully I think there are a bunch
of small trees there is I I couldn't
tell on the pictures that I was looking
at yeah I did because I parked my bike
against them as I yeah I mean you can
see him in this there's there's a bunch
of small trees that have been planted
there so
okay so um
are you asking to take a vote or what
what would you like the board to do yeah
we'd like to take a vote
okay we don't have findings of fact
because it is what it is right I could
just State what it is and have submitted
and for the time I think it I think it's
important that you state the compromise
of what they did
do after hearing what our comments were
and what the neighbor's comments were
and I'm sorry that the meeting with the
neighbors didn't feel better yeah
um but I do see compromise here
so the findings effect and decision of
the board for application number
arb-23-5 for property located at 348
South cassingham Road the architecture
review board finds uh based on the
modifications to the previously reviewed
application for windscreens for the
tennis courts and sign Replacements that
the applicant has provided a plan that
has been modified and reduced from the
original plan and that windscreens will
be provided along the
sides of the tennis court as submitted
in the application from a period
starting August through October and also
March through May
and that the opacity be verified with
direct department and uh as submitted in
the application
thank you
is there a board member that will make a
motion
I'll make the motion Strasser
second steal
color
Miss croskey
yes
Mr Steele yes
Mr Scott
no
Miss drosser yes
Madam Tony yes
you are approved thank you thank you
thank you
I don't but it's easier than doing board
members you need a bathroom break
because we've been here two hours okay
all right we're going to keep going then
uh our next application number ARB 23-2
the address is 145 South Merkel the
applicant is Clear Water group the owner
is Eric and Melissa Hoy the applicant is
seeking architecture review and approval
and a certificate of appropriateness for
a terrorist Edition over a patio in the
rear yard
Aaron will give us uh in the background
um this application excuse me this
application is before the board for the
first time
um let me pull up the drawings here
um it's a pretty extensive application
for a pool
um
actually
no but okay sorry
go ahead typically this is something
that would come in that Karen and I
would sign off on other than the cover
over the Terrace which appeared to be as
an addition and then it's been since
modified and I'll let Karen speak to
that because it looked more like an
addition which is why we originally put
it on here but they're based on certain
sizes Karen and I can sign off on that
but we're here so let's look at it okay
so what are we please clarify exactly
what we're I think we should the cover
the cover over the patio okay okay
so it's the pillars in the roof that's
what we're looking at right okay well it
would also be
the fire the fireplace and the
actually that's still right
that's something that typically we could
carry on I can sign off as staff because
it meets code
but but that component of this appeared
more as an addition which is subject to
the architecture review boards review
this part right here
correct I mean typically you might see
fireplaces that there might be in a rear
yard to give a recommendation on from
the zoning board but I think it's in the
rear yard it's in an approved location
and it needs this epic requirements
yeah I would just make one comment on
that even though it's not that we could
do that it makes me nervous if I was
it seems close to the garage
is it it's that that's one thing that we
we talked about moving
okay because when we first looked at it
I thought the same thing is I got to be
able to yeah I mean I I I had four kids
they're all adults now but that wall
would be just destroyed by one of the by
all four of them yeah so I I'd be
careful with that
like that
the do you see that
oh yeah yeah right there oh the wall
yeah but in terms of the the cover which
is the architectural element that we're
here to evaluate
um I don't have any problem with it at
all it's just inconsistent from drawing
to drawing so I just want to make sure
that we're clear this is the old drawing
yes okay so the brown ones are the
modification that shows more of an open
trellis type structure this one I think
it's the is this one that
and and is that open can you see through
it yeah do those turn or anything or
it's just open it's a louvered roof okay
go all the way closed and up to
170. I should probably this is the
latest version
yes yes this on the screen is the latest
version yes okay okay and we actually
have um
approve something like this before and I
think that's it
it's very complicated because we were
looking at drawings that had a totally
different design and then this came in
and so when nothing matches we don't
know what we're looking at so
thank you
so back to my staff report that's now
all over the place
um to Chairman Tony's point I I just my
head was swimming into as to just
because somebody comes in later doesn't
mean that necessarily that's your
intention so I I just need clarification
which one of these is the actual is it
this one it is this one yeah so it
doesn't have the column detail or the
heavy top or this is this if if it's
approved tonight then we need to specify
this drawing set is the actual one
yeah dated again yesterday's date on it
possibly or the day before yeah we have
approved at least one or two of these
with the louvers then the
um this new kind of cover and what's the
overall dimension of this structure
24
wide or 24 deep
structure or post to post post to post
okay 24 by
so each each Zone like if you look at
the left side yes for that side it's 12
feet between the posts on the side
and 20 feet between the postal correct
what's the construction material all
aluminum all aluminum
let me that makes sense
and you have hanging heaters is that
correct
man this could be the best spot
excellent will require a building permit
so is this the product Oh that's the
brand of product brand of product but
very clean modern rectangular no
ornamentation on the structure okay
then you can put pages in there it has
several examples
okay so is there anything else you want
to present about it now that we know
that we're looking at the right one yeah
even within there there
yeah there's three columns on the east
and west side in one View and then
switch balls all right that's all and
then it clips
this is the orientation that we would
like so the so the top image is yes okay
can you clarify that I put there
is it attached to the house no is Bill
and is this staff review
we weren't sure if it was attacked it
kind of reads like an addition so that's
why we thought we'd bring it to the
board
it's not an insubstantial
yeah
but it is a pretty substantial piece
yeah well required building permit okay
is there anyone in the audience that
wants to speak about this is there a
neighbor or anyone here that okay no one
um so I because we don't have real
drawings that match with the images that
we have
um we are just going to give you a quick
comment about whether you're going down
the right track is that okay
because you still have a lot of work to
do right
yeah okay
um is there a board member that would
like to go first
sure
uh I think it's great I think the
orientation that orientation is the red
orientation I'm curious about your
details of this what looks like a TV
wall and fireplace is that like a gas
fireplace uh ventless
yeah so uh what that wall construction
is I'm curious because it's really thin
in this rendering but obviously you know
uh but overall the clean shape the clean
version of this I totally the way to go
um the fact that you're not doing any
ornamentation I think is appropriate
um
but the only comment for record is you
got to make sure your pool fence
complies um
all the way around and because it's not
it's not doing it in the rendering
particularly but uh
unless you have a gate at your driveway
then it's totally fine right great
that's all good
we go next
uh agree with Pete I think you have a
good bit of detail work to go with
um
maybe explore something a little further
with your seating area there with the
round fire pit related to the driveway I
think you said it's not going to be
right in front of your driveway
um I don't think you have to force I
mean this is kind of design I don't
think you have to force a round fire but
there everything else is a rectangle
we're just having the round things
around thing but explore that a little
further
um I'm guessing this is something it's
like a pre-engineered unit essentially
yes so it's kind of off the shelf
there's not really a lot of room for
cornices and details and all the box
column tops we could put in the world
but
go in the right direction
you gotta always go
next oh I don't really
yeah I would just say I it would I think
it'd be in your best interest if maybe
you tabled this bring it back next
meeting with a more finished
um plan you know with dimensions and the
things that we're required to ask for
and I I don't think you'll get a lot of
pushback right
yeah would this normally have just gone
through staff well maybe we can just but
we would also have more more detailed
Dimensions but it would also require a
building permit being this red what was
originally submitted a little bit more
substantial and it also looked like in
addition we we just put it on the path
to go to the ARB and then it's changed
since then so yeah
yeah so originally yes this was what we
were going with and then it was actually
something we were going to custom make
on our shot but then with just how busy
we are
I scrapped it we worked with them in the
past and I was like well just revisit it
and so that's those rhetorics you saw
are mine so that's why there's what
works what not so I sent it to Kathy
real quick and said hey can I just get
this in front of you guys because we
wanted to get it started so that's why
there isn't they they actually have yeah
and we said pretty good deals here but
brought in a couple weeks ago and I just
got the
shop drawings today so we do have
detailed of that but not we're not doing
the patio or the seat wall we're only
doing the personal part we haven't heard
from all the board members but I would
support giving this over to agree design
console that's right do you have any
comment yeah uh I mean it's just it's
huge so I don't know I saw a version
here where it was a little bit more
scaled back and that seems a little bit
more appropriate to like the backyard
and everything but
that's the only thing I would say
I mean it looks like there's some
I'm assuming is it like this version
which one is it more like
look it'll be more paragraph more
streamlined go back down a little bit
one more
if you could blow that up a little bit
that's kind of the
post orientation is wrong but that shows
you the look of the Louver so it doesn't
have that substantial roof yeah it also
puts it into the perspective if whole
yards yeah exactly that thing I guess
okay
I I don't know about Kathy's and then
you still need to comment but I just put
it out there I'm totally comfortable
with its suggestions going there back to
you right that's fine with me that's a
design idea but Karen can look at the
specifics and make sure it's
adequate uh yeah so the two things I
thought about when I looked at it is one
you didn't reference how far off the lot
line you are and I think that that's
important to put in your drawings how
far off that lot line your those posts
will be and then also you showed a lot
of views but you don't show the view
from your neighbor and I feel like
that's the most important view because
they're you're very close to your lot
line so they they are going to see it
and you know be part of your family
gatherings more than anybody they talk
to them as well about it and showed them
our renderings too but wouldn't that be
one day I just want an invitation
yeah with the heaters are you putting a
door in your fence so they have easy
access yeah
I actually wondered if you didn't want
that more screening in between you and
your neighbors along that same wallet
you've got the fireplace on because it
might feel a little awkward you know if
you're having things going on and then
they're also in their driveway so yeah
yeah um just something to think about
but I'm totally fine with this going
back to staff and not
so to prove subject to staff
completing the design yes yeah I think
if we would have seen
this burden first would probably
literally just stop right here okay
let's move yeah okay so um we do we need
findings of fact findings the fact
decision of the board for application
number a
orb-23-20 best two we're probably
located at 145 South Merkel the
architecture review board uh approves a
certificate of appropriateness subject
to the design consultant reviewing the
final design details for the covered uh
terrorist Arbor
proposed in the drawings dated March 9th
2023.
okay so do you understand the findings
of fact okay is there a board member
that will make a motion
so move still
second Scott
I will call the roll uh mrser yes Mr
Scott yes Mr Steele yes Miss croskey yes
Madam Tony yes
thank you very much thanks everybody
appreciate it
send us to the opening party yeah okay
um the next application is ARB 23-4 the
address is 47 South Ardmore applicant is
Charlie Schneider the owner is Kyle
knave the applicant is seeking
Architectural Review and approval and a
certificate of appropriateness for a
dormer Edition on the front of the house
what
is that what address is there 47 South
Ardmore
uh starting with you sir State your
names
I'm Charlie Schneider Kyle name do you
solemnly swear or from the testimony
you're about to give this evening is the
truth I do I do thank you
all right um this application was
um is for a dormer Edition on front of
the house so they can add a bathroom
the original Apple I think originally we
just had like this screenshot so we have
talked through and got into the point
now where we have instructions you know
design details and a superimposed
um what um the applicant has called a
photo photo model right here
um originally I don't know if I had put
them on the agenda but the shop drawings
came in or they they showed a Gable
Dormer and so the applicant has now
submitted a corrected set of drawings
that show
um the Dormer with the arched
the only thing I want you know I I just
wonder if I would like to see an
elevation
um a drawn elevation instead of just the
photo
um because I would really like to see
the details of how they
um are constructed I don't have a
problem with it but I think it's very
hard to tell from the superimposition on
the photo what it'll look like
um
[Music]
would you like to make a presentation of
what you're drawing and give us a little
more explanation
um so basically we're just extending his
bathroom
um so that Dormer will basically come
about three feet out so that he can get
a tub in there and a shower combo
um so really not a whole lot going on on
the outside but I understand where you
want the elevation height but it will
match the
the architectural of the one on the
opposite side of the house
okay any
anything
okay is there a board member that would
like to go first sure
so go back to that picture
uh that you just had open yeah so you're
saying that on the right hand side which
is the existing you're basically going
to mirror that onto the other side or is
it it's going to be wider but that that
design is going to be matched okay so it
it is going to be
it's going to be wider is it going to be
taller
than what's on the right hand side yeah
it will be okay
I don't know it's a little seems a
little off to me but I understand why
you're doing it because I know that you
want to get it's very dark sure
I'm sure
excellent
and then what's what's the material on
the roof part
uh the Russo like the it's curved right
it's a curved Dormer yeah
um so it's going to be the the same
shingle they just are replaced okay and
that's what's on the other side too yeah
yeah the whole roof just got replaced a
little while ago okay
okay
this can go
I'll go I think it's clever solution
architecturally especially on the
interior great job and I was thinking
about the difference in the window size
but that doesn't really trouble me I
mean we got quirky weird Windows all
over the place my house there's I think
I have 30 different kinds of windows in
my house and
for me it's fun
it's also that side of the house is
different already you know the roof
bumps out differently
the defense the porches there so to me
it makes sense that it wouldn't be
identical so I'm good with it
Mr Scott
how do I add to that
very well said
no I agree I think it's allowed to be
quirky the only thing that matters is
the details right and based on what I'm
seeing in your drawings uh it seems like
you're trying to follow that
um the elevation will help uh you know
having an overall the whole elevation
would be great partial would be probably
acceptable but I'd love to see the
overall but you know maybe that's
something you even work with staff on
and if there's a problem you can come
back and see us but I because I'm from
what you're showing and even your little
your Photoshop to you know it it's uh
it's appropriate and there is some
quirkiness to it but that's what's great
about it it's the details that will make
that work in those buildings so and it's
a Charming house I love your house
clarify when I said I need to see the
elevation I don't necessarily that needs
to be tabled I I just want to see it
first staff review
and if something doesn't line up right
or look right in a partling ground then
I reserve the right to bring it back
here
having said that the board certainly can
ask you if you've like the table and if
it doesn't look like it's playing in
your direction but I just want to be
clear that the elevation what need was
not to bring back to the board I just
need to see that in your garage yet I'm
in support of what you're doing so yeah
it helps your decision
well in the window right so I don't know
if I have a solid actual manufacturer
but the window you know divided light
would be great if it's just a mutton uh
that's it's okay
um but you know again this those little
details and I know it's going to be a
huge impact such a small little addition
and all this work but it's going to
really make a big difference on a small
bathroom so yeah
uh I think it's a good smart decision
which one
which window
so they're both they're both they look
like are they replacement windows in the
house so the goal was to match the
window that's already in the bathroom
just the grid and the exact same
material okay which makes sense that
makes sense are those divided or are
they one
one glass they're not true divided like
Windows they don't look like that
now they're inside if this is a single
pane that's fine matching is important
so
and Karen you're looking for a straight
on elevation drawing yes
there's a there's some so what we like
to do is when we approve or she's
approving is there's some quantitative
aspect of that elevation of where that
window is going to sit now you have a
section which is very helpful uh but it
just allows us to document that the
distance from log
from the sidewall Outlet we don't want
to crammed up against it but yeah that's
good
I think it is it is crammed up right
against the cycle
so is the other one
I mean the exterior sidewalk
um I I was mostly confused how I was
going to work with the chimney there and
the light and I'm guessing that's the
bedroom in the front but I think you
guys kind of swayed me to quirkiness as
long as it matches like the details
match yeah I mean I think long as the
roof is maintained around it because
then it's not if it doesn't it's not a
dormer it's it's more of a vertical
section so yeah the rendering shows
shingles on both sides that's pretty
important
uh
is the left in this image is the left
side of that Dormer aligned with the
exterior wall of the cable end it is in
this PDF and the drawings
the second one they put with thicker
Arch
okay
so you're just gonna have a little
sliver of of the Gable rake coming past
the Dormer yeah it's going to be
a hint like it's a dormer but okay
the side elevation will be well it's
mostly no it's fine because you get the
roof extension over what I'm assuming is
a patio the covered awning the patio I
think it'll be fine so sorry I'm shut up
okay
everybody else might get it
I'm I'm a little bit confused as to how
the side of the Dormer hits the end wall
and still has the same detail as the
Dormer that's on the other side I feel
like you're gonna have to skinny it in a
little bit so that you can end the
Dormer have it turn the corner and then
go back
do you understand what I'm saying
and the exterior on the exterior of the
the Dormer comes down and has like sides
to it right
as the roof goes back
I feel like you're going to need a
little bit of space there
so in order to do that you're going to
have to skinny that window down a little
bit compared to what you've drawn
right
but that's what I was asking does that
brown roof come out in front of the
stone facade that's where I think you're
going to figure it out when you draw the
elevation
that you need a little bit of space
there in order for it for the Dormer to
end because it's a curved piece
and even when you mock it up in there
you've got six eight inches or whatever
of
the roof to the side of it right
so that's where I just feel like until
you draw the elevation
you may have it the window a little
wider than what it can actually be so
but the concept of it I think is awesome
but I just don't think you have drawn it
enough to really know how it fits in
there
so I'm totally fine though at this point
just remaining it back to Karen that she
can help you figure out
the exact dimensions and the details of
how it gets set in so
great yeah
yeah I don't like them
is that our other board members okay
with that yes okay
um
so do you want to read finds like is
there anybody in the audience that wants
to speak about this application
I'm John just a few few people I figured
okay findings a fact and decision of the
board for application number
arb-23-2 for property located at 47th
South Merkel the architecture review
board
finds that the front Dormer Edition on
the second floor is architecture
compatible with the existing structure
and further moves approval of a
certificate of equipment appropriateness
with the following condition that an
elevation drawing be submitted as part
of the structural drawings subject to
final review and approval by the design
consultant
do you understand the findings of fact
okay is there a board member that will
make a motion so moved Scott
second Aid croskey
I'll read the role of Miss croskey yes
Mr Scott yes
Mr Steele yes straw sir yes Madam Tony
yes
thank you very much thank you
okay our last application for the night
is bzap23-1 the address is 934 Grand and
the applicant is Valerie Halas the owner
is Todd Berger the applicant is Seeking
a recommendation to the board of zoning
and planning for architecture review and
approval and a certificate of
appropriateness for a two-story Edition
at the rear of the house
you're about to give this evening is the
truth I do thank you okay and Valerie
I'm going to apologize because I think I
forgot to put download your you emailed
me the latest one today right I did yes
is it this do you want me to pass this
one around oh yeah did you come today
yeah yeah
well I'll just talk while I do this okay
there we go
um because I talked I I relayed some of
the comments that I had from board
members to Valerie we had a nice
conversation I just have to stay for the
record that I'm throwing devour getting
so much work in factfully and she's just
a pleasure to work with yes response
awesome to any critique or criticism
um this is an interesting little you
know house I think one of the board
members like said something like use the
term vanilla and don't mean it to be too
negative but it is true it's just like a
plain house it is um the elevations are
very deceiving because it does it makes
it look like the Dormers are huge but
they're very step back so I talked to
Valerie today about about
um potentially
um some of the suggestions that board
members had
um which included
um taking off this skinny tiny false
shutter things that don't have any
relation to the actual windows and maybe
some gutter differences in colors or
anything you can kind of think of that
brings a little bit more charm and but
what we did talk about is putting an
awning cover over the back door and then
it happened by I'll just tell the story
her client went into labor today you
know and I said um I said wow that baby
you're really gonna need a cover
Valerie hadn't emailed me a new set of
plans so yeah so I we had talked about
that earlier on and they're like if that
means it gets to get go through then add
that add that on they were resisting
they have the baby no no they're in
labor okay
right now
that's exciting and then I just brought
up this is the new um you know proposed
um awnings medal awning
so that's all I have I mean I just you
know I probably would have put this on
consent if we had worked through some of
these things ahead of time but it just
wasn't quite there but you know
um
no no wait an existing back porch no
that's not new it's just a concrete
so what's there currently is
um kind of similar and they were kind of
not even they don't even care about
their back porch so to get
um
yeah the kids out there playing they can
sit on the back porch and have a coffee
here yeah that's right and if it's
covered it's even better so yeah that's
what anyway yeah sorry
interrupt is there anything else you
would like to explain to us about the
application and I know it's just uh you
know family of five
um you know they're just looking to
enlarge their home have a more
functional kitchen and have five
bedrooms since they're a family of six
now going to be soon
so um they typically use their front
door
um they will probably use their rear
door more but um the way that they kind
of function as a family is they enter
their
front door primarily they wanted to add
a
Powder Room
for guests and the front sitting room
can also act as a bedroom for guests
when they come
so even though the garage is in the back
they use the front door to access the
house mostly yeah they don't actually
use their garage they use it for storage
yeah
neighbors like that yeah yeah
okay is there a board member that would
like to go first
I didn't
I can't read these plans half past you
know especially with some of the changes
but overall the massing I think is fine
the style is fine I don't really have
any objection or anything bad
I think it's just DMV
thank you Mr Scott I like this house you
know I don't know what board member said
vanilla
no I know because I think the Char the
charm is in its Simplicity and it's like
the front of the house is like you know
here's here's the front a little bit of
a porch you know but it's not and
there's brick right so that's yeah
shutters are sitting on brick which is
kind of a wash right which is nice it's
subtle and it actually at first I didn't
like the dark column because I thought
that was part of your design I thought
there was some like you're trying to but
it's existing and looking at the photos
with the Halloween decorations I really
like it and I don't mind the shutters
that are the wrong size yeah so I'm not
right for me they're fine with now just
he said that he would make news shutters
well maybe maybe that might be
interesting to see but I think the issue
is by taking those off I'll just make
the bigger ones you may you may move you
may move more towards vanilla I think
that the shutters are giving you a
little bit more character on this kind
of yeah simplistic facility on their
front porch yeah so I I think it's it's
well done and I think if you're gonna
put massing on especially this size of a
building and putting it in the back
makes sense so um I think that's a great
addition to the massing my only concern
for them because they're spending money
to do all of this is that back porches
really really small it is and if you're
going to do it is there a cost saving or
balance by doing it in wood and allowing
it to extend that a little bit and
having it raised up a little bit uh I
just you know functionality meaning
there's six kids
it's two people are gonna get on that
they're gonna have to eat in the yard so
I know that would be my only suggestion
it's a design I don't like the covered
area I think having the covering over
the door makes a lot of sense but again
I don't think it's a if if it was
looking at bounce balancing on all the
costs I
and it's really nice to cover
um I wouldn't say okay fine maybe hold
off on that and make a bigger deck
because I have just a usability but
family without kids and running around
the backyard so as the architect if
that's you've had those conversations
design wise this is balanced I can
support this but
wow and that the problem with the big
concrete also is another thing is a if
I'm buying a house like this someday
that's like uh I gotta rip that out and
that's like a big so there's some you
know doing it in wood or doing finding
some other way to build it that might be
helped one future expansion
uh or uh if it ever gets demo and it
won't be a deterrent so that's a
suggestion not a well no yeah I can't
I'm not going to dictate the design and
what they want they want a small if they
never go outside that's fine I would
maybe recommend not doing it as all
concrete I think that seems a little
harsh so maybe there's some you know if
it is concrete maybe you're
wrapping it in like a wood cladding or
something just to kind of soften the
material up or and then I wouldn't want
to do like a board form would be great
but that's not going to happen but you
know stamp concrete is something I think
is not right either but yeah
something maybe because that seems
pretty thick to have it all be concrete
and this is a recommendation so they
could always make a modification before
it goes to the zoning board for that
final yeah again I have no problem with
anything that you're doing it's just
it's little tweaks to soften that
concrete block thank you yeah okay
good job
Miss karaski
I think it's really cute so I I have no
issues with with it and I think it looks
great and I like the uh little
standing sea metal cover back there so I
I think it's great
steel
um I'll I'll own it I said vanilla
um I said vanilla
probably has a bitter response to I
basically used to have the same house in
South Baxley oh did you um except I had
a center stair going in the back of the
house so I could never Rectify how to
put an addition out the back with the
stair going right through the middle oh
yeah add space that way so
I'm glad you had the stair go in the
other direction and it made life a lot
easier for you we opened and have it the
stair so you so you can go to the
kitchen and the living room so we open
that up so you can
um I love that you use the stucco up top
too not going to the side and everything
like that just keeping it all continuous
great agree with
a very large concrete small scoop out
back would be yeah a lot
good job
okay and uh um I I just had two comments
I would remove the shutters
that's not shutters don't if you closed
them you know what do you close them so
I I think it's just like I know charm I
know people like shutters but I like
them to be like real where they would
actually cover the window if they were
closed they're existing correct so
that's your choice the other thing I
would do is I I would paint your um your
gutters the same color as your roof
because as the dance spot came down the
other side it would kind of match the
post but again that's something we can
yeah that's a recommendation but that's
um
yeah that's all I have
okay uh findings of fact the findings of
backing decision of the board for
application number
bzap-23-1 for property located at 934
Grand and their collection review board
recommends a certificate of
appropriateness to the board of zoning
and planning for the two-story Edition
um with the
addition that the applicant may consider
modifications to the back
stoop as a to possibly turn it into a
deck
and then that the version with the cover
over the back stoop is what is being
recommended
do you understand the findings of act I
do
okay is there a board member that will
make a motion
so moved to croskey Second Strasser
uh Miss drosser
yes Mr Scott yes Mr Steele yes croskey
yes Madam yes
thank you very much
good to see you okay yeah
three days